Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 28, 2018

How Media Failures Complicate The Nuclear Talks With North Korea

North Korea recently again asked the Trump administration to stick to the three steps agreed upon in the Singapore Statement.

The Washington Post columnist Josh Rogin characterizes the North Korean request as "belligerent":

Pompeo received the letter from Kim Yong Chol, vice chairman of North Korea’s ruling Workers’ Party Central Committee, on Friday morning, and showed it to Trump in the White House, two senior administration officials confirmed. The exact contents of the message are unclear, but it was sufficiently belligerent that Trump and Pompeo decided to call off Pompeo’s journey ...

Reuters amplified the alleged "belligerence" when it headlined:

Trump called off Pompeo's North Korea visit after belligerent letter: report

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump called off a visit to North Korea by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo after the latter received a belligerent letter from a senior North Korean official just hours after the trip was announced last week, the Washington Post reported on Monday.

Reuters must know that Josh Rogin does not do "reporting". He is not a journalist but a neocon shill with a direct line to John Bolton. He publishes his effusions in the Opinion section of the paper, not in its news parts.

CNN then entered the frail and reported the real content of the letter:

North Korea warns Pompeo denuclearization talks are 'at stake,' sources say:

Top North Korean officials warned the United States in a letter that denuclearization talks are "again at stake and may fall apart," sources familiar with the process told CNN.

The letter was delivered to US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, whose fourth trip to Pyongyang was abruptly canceled, hours before he was scheduled to depart with his new special envoy Stephen Biegun on Friday, sources said.

Three sources with direct knowledge of the North Korean position on denuclearization said the letter stated that Kim's regime felt that the process couldn't move forward because "the US is still not ready to meet (North Korean) expectations in terms of taking a step forward to sign a peace treaty."

The described demand by North Korea to follow the agreed upon steps is certainly not 'belligerent'.

After the CNN reported the real content of the letter Reuters changed its 'belligerent' headline to:

North Korea tells U.S. denuclearisation talks may fall apart - CNN

but the URL to the piece on the Reuters website still reflects the original headline:

https://in.reuters.com/article/northkorea-usa/trump-called-off-pompeos-north-korea-visit-after-belligerent-letter-report-idINKCN1LC2HA.

 The text though is now heavily modified:

WASHINGTON/SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korean officials have warned in a letter to the United States that denuclearisation talks were “again at stake and may fall apart”, CNN reported on Tuesday, citing people familiar with the matter.
...
The Washington Post reported on Monday that U.S. President Donald Trump called off a visit to North Korea by Pompeo after the latter received a belligerent letter from a senior North Korean official just hours after the trip was announced last week.

The "belligerent" Washington Post nonsense was moved down from the headline and first graph to the seventh of nine paragraphs. It should have been deleted or further modified.

This incident demonstrates two problems:

  • News agencies like Associated Press, Reuters, AFP or DPA have increased their distribution of opinions and vague reports picked from other media without confirming the content themselves. Reuters first picked the item from an Opinion piece in the Washington Post and then corrected it with the bits it gleaned from a CNN piece. Where are its own reporters? Has Reuters given up on those? This is an abrogation of the original task and purpose of a general news agency.
  • Websites which more or less automatically re-publish news agency reports do not have an automatic update process which replaces  news-agency report with updates or corrections should the agency release any. A search for the "belligerent" Reuters headline finds more than 30 such entries hours after the original was updated and the headline changed. The lack of an automatic update procedure for agency news leaves a large amount of 'official' fakenews alive on the web even when the original piece has been retracted or modified.

Back to the North Korea issue. It is obvious that the Trump administration is not willing to follow the agreed upon sequence in the Singapore Statement and Panmunjom Declaration. It wants to proceed with step three, an aspirational North Korean promise to "work towards" denuclearization, before taking step one and two which prescribe the move towards better relations and a peace treaty. Instead of criticizing the unwillingness of the Trump administration to stick to its commitment, U.S. media push the administration further down its belligerent path.

A Washington Post editorial today laments that the Singapore negotiations have given North Korea too much. It urges Trump further into the blind alley he already finds himself in:

The administration’s best hope of rescuing the situation is to return to talking with North Korea about an equitable tradeoff. To start the process of denuclearization, U.S. officials say the Kim regime must provide a complete inventory of its assets — warheads, production facilities and other nuclear infrastructure — and agree to inspections to verify it. Previous negotiations have broken down because of Pyongyang’s refusal to take this step, so a full disclosure would provide the first clear signal that Mr. Kim was serious about denuclearization. That, along with a freeze in the production of missiles and fissile materials, could justify U.S. participation in the end-of-conflict declaration the two Koreas are seeking.

This is exactly what Trump and his water carrier Pompeo are doing. They demand that North Korea bows to whatever the U.S. wishes without assuring it of a significant quid pro quo. If the U.S. can not even stick to simple agreements, like the Singapore Statement, why should North Korea believe any verbal assurance of vague steps the U.S. might take after it disarms?

The only way out of this is for the U.S. to offer and sign a peace treaty that finally brings the Korea War to an official end. There is only one alternatives to that. A return U.S. strategic maneuvers, which Defense Secretary Mattis just now announced, followed up by North Korea with new nuclear and missile tests, possibly combined in a launch towards Guam. The 2020 commission report explains what we can expect to followed from these steps.

Posted by b on August 28, 2018 at 11:53 AM | Permalink

Comments

The spirit of John McCain lives on...

Posted by: Ross | Aug 28, 2018 12:00:39 PM | 1

thanks b.. everyone knows which country is the belligerent one.. the usa msm is a cess pool... i am amazed anyone pays any attention to any of it.. it is one big swirling cess pool of obfuscation.. i agree with your last paragraph which sums up the choice.. at this point - choosing point 1 would be going in the exact opposite direction that has defined usa foreign policy the past 60 years.. it is possible they are going to change direction, but highly unlikely..

Posted by: james | Aug 28, 2018 12:06:47 PM | 2

This has been going on since the inception of the USA. Just ask the indigenous people of North America. As long as the South Koreans allow the US to stay, they will, and since the US controls South Korean infrastructure, nothing will change. What is really at stake is the brains of the American populace, which has no time or inclination to read beyond the headline and to listen to its programmers on the idiot box and radio.

Posted by: Michael | Aug 28, 2018 12:19:52 PM | 3

CNN then entered the frail

perhaps you meant fray.

please delete this.

Posted by: Hal C | Aug 28, 2018 12:39:24 PM | 4

If there is a Bluster meter it must be topping out these days.

Bluster is the tool of grifters such as those "leading" America.

Grifters know that bad fake news is a tool of propaganda and use it frequently. They also know that retracting such lies rarely carries downstream.

The incentives of our social contract with private finance at the core continues to be perpetuated by lies, obfuscation and intimidation. How long can empire hold this dysfunctional social "order" together? I continue to hold out hope that China is sucking in all that private money that thinks that 51% ownership of some of China banking will save them and then will nationalize them when they have no where else to go.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Aug 28, 2018 1:01:03 PM | 5

As long as the US is trying to change the agenda from what was agreed in Singapore, the two Koreas will have the world's support in steaming ahead to a Korea-Korea peace agreement and reconcilliation without the US. In many respects that is much better than an agreement with the US because the US is not agreement-capable anyway. A US-Korea agreement is worth no more than the US-Gadhafi one was.

Posted by: BM | Aug 28, 2018 1:21:20 PM | 6

The only agreement that would have worth is one signed by South Korea, China and Russia. The US signature to any treaty or "agreement" is worth nothing. Who backs you, as Syria and Iran have found out in their sanctions and (for Syria) war, is crucial.

North Korea will not sign a bilateral "deal" with the US. That is a suicide note, not an international document.

Steps will be taken. The US knows the ground rules from before Singapore.
If they attack the North, they get a war with China and Russia along with North Korea.

North Korea and South Korea are undermining the US so quickly that the US is desperate to throw wrenches into the wheels.

A war is economic disaster to the US economy. South Korea is crucial to the manufacturing supply chain of most of the world.
A war begun by the US will be a disaster to the US military. They will take losses in a few days of such enormous numbers that no rational military man would start such a catastrophe.

Trump thought he could cajole Kim away from China. This is the naiveté of Americans thinking that North Koreans basically are not close with Chinese and might even resent their brothers-in-arms (who expended a half-million or more PLA souls in 1950-53).

Both nations (NK and China) also are deeply linked ideologically as Communist regimes.
And both nations are bonded as targets by the Hegemon for containment and ruin.

The US is faced with Moon gaining for them the softening of Kim with economic projects, and Russia being the differential by offering S-400 shielding (easily done from Russian side of the border and naval assets off the coast of NK).

Once Kim is comfortable with guarantees from his two big allies and his counter-part in the South, he will begin to bargain and give ground.

However, one eye is on the collapse of the Iran deal, the US breaking out of it. How the EU stands by Iran is crucial to how Kim will judge any arrangement he would consider.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Aug 28, 2018 1:42:53 PM | 7

Can't express any surprise over this as the entire sequencing aspect of both agreements was never elucidated by BigLie Media. This again confirms the Outlaw US Empire is not agreement capable. It also again confirms the policy to attain Full Spectrum Dominance of the planet is still the #1 goal.

But there is a third party to these agreements--South Korea--and we certainly know South Koreans stand to lose as much as their kin in the North should war again erupt. I'm sure Korean press have asked President Moon for his reaction, but it's likely published in Korean. At this point Moon must choose between his nothing to gain alliance with the Outlaw US Empire or his excellent opportunity to make Korea whole again and the outstanding economic gains that will bring. I must also wonder if in his meetings with Kim they discussed the very likely prospect that this situation would arise and how to counter.

In two weeks, the Far Eastern Economic Conference will begin in Vladivostok where sideline talks will likely occur on this issue, but I'd hope we'd see a few statements in reaction well before then. Also, prior to Mattis's announcement, the following event was reported by DPRK news outlet Rodong Sinmun and subsequently reported by EurasiaFuture:

"According to a south Korean radio, U.S. special units in Japan staged a drill of flying 1 200 km to the Philippines through air transport.

"The radio said one can confirm that the drill would be the drill aimed at “the infiltration into Pyongyang” in case of change of direction.

"Prior to the exercise, it was disclosed that the Michigan, the nuclear submarine belonging to the U.S. Navy, transported Green Berets, Delta Force and other special units present in Okinawa, Japan to the Jinhae naval base of south Korea in late July or early in August.

"In this regard, Rodong Sinmun in a commentary on Sunday says that it was extremely provocative and dangerous military moves to mar the hard-won atmosphere of the peace on the Korean peninsula and the dialogue between the DPRK and the U.S. and prevent the implementation of the Singapore DPRK-U.S. Joint Statement.

"Such acts prove that the U.S. is hatching a criminal plot to unleash a war against the DPRK and commit a crime which deserves merciless divine punishment in case the U.S. fails in the scenario of the DPRK’s unjust and brigandish ‘denuclearization first’.

"We can not but take a serious note of the double-dealing attitudes of the U.S. as it is busy staging secret drills involving man-killing special units while having a dialogue with a smile on its face.

"The U.S. would be sadly mistaken if it thinks that it can browbeat someone through trite “gunboat diplomacy” which it used to employ as an almighty weapon in the past and attain its sinister intention.

"The U.S. should ponder over its deeds."

Clearly, the US had already pondered for as soon as the ink was dry in Singapore, the Outlaw US Empire unilaterally moved denuclearization from step 3 to step 1 and has kept that stance.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 28, 2018 1:50:29 PM | 8

psychohistorian @5 suggests that this was no "media failure." I agree and see it as just business as usual for BigLie Media of which Reuters is a founding member. Clearly, the BigLie is to continue painting DPRK as the Bad Guy with Outlaw US Empire posing as Good Guy, primarily for the domestic audience, but also for the Five Eyes World. It was however funny that one BigLie Media outlet forced another to alter its BigLie.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 28, 2018 2:03:35 PM | 9

Just like with politicians and political parties themselves, mass media are reverting to being nothing but organizers of claques. Reuters has no more to do with true journalism than the Democrat Party has to do with true politics. Both merely organize celebrity fan clubs. In the same way that only garbage still adheres in a partisan manner to either half of the Corporate One-Party (I'm talking about the US, though the same phenomenon is rife throughout the Euro-world), so only garbage still craves the poison of the corporate media, newspapers or television.

What's the alternative? I warned people for years that social media was no firm foundation upon which to build a castle, and sure enough the censorship tide is coming in. To build real alternative media under the control of the people is part of the general need, to build a true cultural, spiritual movement against the whole system. But this would require cadres willing to dedicate their lives to the work, and at least in America there seems to be no such will.

Posted by: Russ | Aug 28, 2018 2:34:39 PM | 10

If you look at the US media around the so-called Spanish-American War of 1998, you can see the same bent toward war, the same proclivity for propaganda rather than actual reporting, and the same misleading headlines and provocative language. Perhaps there have been brief times such as moments in the 70s and 80s when some (not all, but a significant few) reporters at major outlets could write articles based on fact but they are the exception to the rule.

Posted by: worldblee | Aug 28, 2018 2:37:48 PM | 11

Monty python does 1984, Alice in wonderland, Dr. Strangelove, and Forrest Gump all in one...starring that lovably wacky stable genius, the MIC, Congress, and a cast of neocons, neo nazis, neo zionists.

Posted by: Breadonwaters | Aug 28, 2018 2:46:13 PM | 12

Western scribblers could learn from their colleagues in South Korea. This is how a Korean JoonAng daily describe
s the events (close to top for Google News search "Korea belligerent"):

In a statement Saturday, the South Korean Foreign Ministry said, “We think it is regrettable that the trip to North Korea was delayed at this time.”

The ministry added that advancing South Korea and the United States’ joint goal of “substantial progress toward the complete denuclearization and establishment of a permanent peace regime on the Korean Peninsula is more important than anything else.”

This was a slight deviation from the State Department’s statement, which left out the concept of a “permanent peace regime,” while in turn, the South Korean statement made no mention of “pressure.”

================

Slight difference indeed.

Koreans made it very clear that the letter was characterized as "belligerent" by persons mentioned by name, and the title and first paragraph do not mention that word.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 28, 2018 2:59:42 PM | 13

Well i read a few days ago a commentator´s view that everyone should perhaps keep in mind.
About the media the presstitute big media that looms over our consciences every minute.
iT said that the lying press, the mendacious agenda, the overwhelming need to the daily manipulate the most simple and factual thruths of events... became so FREQUENT, so MASSIVE so
coordinated, op-erates under a such amorality and shameless frame... that is necessarily bound to, in the way to destruction. To doom.
No third conclusion, no third exit.
They will either enslave us all or they will doom, destroy themselves.

Posted by: augusto | Aug 28, 2018 3:07:08 PM | 14

In these prospects a few months back success seemed very unlikely because the US does not want peace in Korea between the two countries or withdrawal of its troops. Trump's role appears to be a naïve simpleton eager to be applauded as usual with a "not my fault" fall back position. Hence the breakdown in two short months, plus the arrogant posturing that Korea better deliver its nuclear weaponry pronto, and now resumption of drills. I suspect the next Moon will be a Duterte type who orders the US out of the country, as north and south, supported by China and Russia move on in the direction they obviously want to go. This may take a couple of years or so.

Posted by: Sid2 | Aug 28, 2018 3:15:48 PM | 15

PB @13--

I duplicated your search and got no current news. Topping the list was an 17 August Breitbart News report about a DPRK official's visit to Cuba. Nor does that change when North is added or by going directly to google instead of through Yandex's link. The Reuter's item's nowhere to be found. Yes, quite strange.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 28, 2018 3:40:38 PM | 16

Re: karlof Aug 28, 2018, 3:30:38 PM

The results of Google searches depend on your previous searches and perhaps clicks too.

But wait! I repeated the search and the link to South Korean source vanished. S...t. Evil Empire strikes back against its own algorithms?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 28, 2018 3:46:16 PM | 17

Trump has succeeded in destroying deals, throwing sanctions everywhere but until now he has not succeeded in creating one new deal with any other countries.
The North Korea embryo deal was pompously announced as the end of North Korea nuclearization.
But ridicule is what the US administration is known for.
Let us see if the Mexico-USA that Trump is so proud about will fly and if the "wall" will finally be built.

Posted by: Virgile | Aug 28, 2018 3:46:25 PM | 18

South Korean link.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 28, 2018 3:49:02 PM | 19

Frankly, North Korea should be left to complete its deal with the South. It was going well. Idiot Trumpian US intervention serves no purpose. Leave the people concerned to reach their agreement.

Posted by: Laguerre | Aug 28, 2018 4:11:44 PM | 20

PB @19--

Thanks for the link! Seems that publication's being honest in its reporting unlike Nauert and the US State Department who keep pushing the BigLie that denuclearization only applies to DPRK. Good news that the September Summit in Pyongyang between Kim and Moon is still a go, but will it occur before or after Vladivostok? Do wish we could get more info from Korea, even in Korean.

As for Google's tricks, I don't use Google anymore as my primary search engine; I have Yandex for that and my home page.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 28, 2018 4:17:32 PM | 21

IMO Trump met with Kim for pure political reasons. After his bombings of Syria,,, his droning more weddings, and his assistance in killing women and children in Yemen by selling the KSA head choppers bombs and other equipment.

His meeting with Kim was to illustrate to his base that he is really a peaceful man. His base believes he is the second coming and worship his 3D diplomacy while the rest of us wonder what the hell he is doing.

He's gearing up for another attack on Syria. His base will defend him as most believe these types of bully actions is what makes America great.

Trump is actually having the flag lowered to honor the most despicable, low life traitor I have known in my lifetime. McCain. McCain makes Hanoi Jane look like a patriot. He went out of his way to ensure several hundred US POW's never returned home. NV was holding them hoping for war reparations. Nixon secretly approved 3.5 billion but it was never sent. NV most likely killed the POW's now that they no longer a negotiating point.

By honoring this deviant he has insulted all US veterans. But sadly Americans don't care. They're hero's until they die or get captured. Then their forgotten.

I apologize to this board for adding the last part,,, I know it's off topic but as a vet that carried dead and wounded back to base, Trumps actions really hurt.

Posted by: ken | Aug 28, 2018 4:21:58 PM | 22

Silly me! I should have just searched for Korean Newspapers and found this nice list! One excellent item I found announces an increase in the amount allocated to inter-Korean affairs by over 14%. The same publication also provides the reason given by RoK's spy agency head for cancelling Pompeo's trip.

Will the South agree to resume war games with Outlaw US Empire and thus risk derailing the progress already attained? Moon must ask himself the question I posed earlier: Embrace an alliance for life with DPRK or chose the alliance of death with the Empire--I don't think I can put it much starker.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 28, 2018 4:43:22 PM | 23

Sputnik now provides a well balanced article but fails to mention Reuter's role in propagating what began as another BigLie.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 28, 2018 5:00:38 PM | 24

Re: karlof1, yandex

The search on Yandex that I tried was not any better, I am sorry to say. I guess Google still has best algorithm, but "hand intervention" subverts that. BTW, it seems that the linked newspaper is not leftists, but they criticize currently leftist government "technocratically". That suggest that reapproachment with North Korea has a wider basis of support than just core left voters.

IMHO, South Korea has some vestiges of the ancient division into three kingdom. Former Silla (Daegu, Busan) are conservative, former Baekje (Kwangjiu) is leftist, and Seoul metropolitan area (former Koguryo) tips the balance. However, in a bout of madness conservatives managed to get their candidate elected, and that president, daughter of a former military dictator who presided over economic expansion (and some repressions, of course) was unusually inept, morbidly shy and avoiding all human contacts except with another female who happened to be a shaman (literally) and a fraud (giving bad name to all honest shamans). That undermined the Korean version of neocons. If only Trump were morbidly shy...

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 28, 2018 5:00:56 PM | 25

Demented US and UK elites are terrified of peace and as usual sabotage negotiation. We are being marched to war. The CIA controlled hi-tech social network companies are right now conspiring to silence dissenting voices in phase two of Cold War v2. That they think they can subdue or defeat the Russia/China alliance shows their dementia. It is definitely not possible for the US to 'win' even against Iran. The US has been checkmated. Now what will it do?

Posted by: AriusArmenian | Aug 28, 2018 5:21:34 PM | 26

The truly stupid never learn. Trust the US Overlords to screw up in everything they do. Trump's "leadership" only makes this more glaringly obvious.

Posted by: mike k | Aug 28, 2018 6:02:05 PM | 27

No doubt the Chinese capitalist elite - post 1979- could do with low intensity war to focus the ' masses ' attention onto an external aggressor .

The social , developmental contradictions, injustices of the present system where Chinese and foreign business exploit the Chinese people are always on the edge of opposition.

The Korean situation - no doubt - sits complexly under this keystone -

Posted by: ashley albanese | Aug 28, 2018 6:51:54 PM | 28

@ worldblee | 11

Yes, history is, if not repeating, at least rhyming closely. You also reminded me of this vivid illustration of how mass-media worked, and still worked:

When Hearst Artist Frederic Remington cabled from Cuba in 1897 that "there will be no war," newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst cabled back: "You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war."

Posted by: Ort | Aug 28, 2018 8:27:48 PM | 29

5 "How long can empire hold this dysfunctional social "order" together?"

As long as you get two kartoffeln instead of one your neighbor gets, as long as your shirt collar isn't so frayed it falls into your turnip soup, and as long as you're not too frail to sign over your last $500 life savings to the Eldercare Dormitory, where the hearse comes for you after midnight, then the cardboard coffin and the crematorium.

Get busy Blue Teaming, or get busy dying.
MAGA!

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 28, 2018 10:47:12 PM | 30

17

There is a LOT of black redactions, purges and disappearances happening ATM. Why just the other day, b disappeared one of my comments. I'm blacklisted on ZH, BB and HP so it won't surprise me to be blocked here.

But think of that power! If the FANG were to release an app that would only block the PHOTOS AND IMAGES issuing moment to moment from the NYC-WADC Nexus of Evil, if all the images of Trump and Kushner and Pompeo and Bolton disappeared on some pretext like #MeTooPapparazzi copyright claims, and no matter what they did, the vampire coven could not get their images on the mirror, think how much power they would lose! Publish their Big Lies. Nobody reads. But blackout all photos and images, that's not protected free speech. Photography didn't even exist when the Constitution was written.

Kill the image, kill the Beast. It's as simple as that! The app should drop soon.

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 28, 2018 11:03:31 PM | 31

How Telesur and Empire Files are being censored by FaceBook:

Posted by: ben | Aug 28, 2018 11:36:21 PM | 32

Woops, try this:
/2018/08/the-whole-truth-about-telesurempire.html

Posted by: ben | Aug 28, 2018 11:37:00 PM | 33

Damn I'm working on it..Sorry

Posted by: ben | Aug 28, 2018 11:38:03 PM | 34

This maybe:

http://failedevolution.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-whole-truth-about-telesurempire.html

Posted by: ben | Aug 28, 2018 11:38:58 PM | 35

Belligerence, from the US, that is, as american as apple pie and John McCain

Posted by: michaelj72 | Aug 29, 2018 12:10:00 AM | 36

The U.S., a crazy, confused, schizo and heavily-armed country with skid rows littering the landscape from sea to shining sea next to depraved wealth, a middle class either drunk on shopping, hoarding possessions or high on heroine, the highest prison population in the world, and gun totting rednecks preaching fake religion is now appropriately headed by Nurse Ratched-Trump of the insane asylum. Unfortunately, it is the Fort Knox of the planet, and therefore can inflict financial and all manner of tyranny and pain at the order of Zionist kooks who call the shots.

The pompous ass Trump who claims to make the greatest deals, the best and hugest deals thinks he invented the wheel, but instead tries to bully the rest of the world into submission so he can later tweet about his unmatched negotiating skills and brag about his superior intellect ad nauseum.

There's no trusting a shithole country like that run by a mad tin-pot dictator. North Korea better keep its nukes.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 29, 2018 12:41:52 AM | 37

The U.S., a crazy, confused, schizo and heavily-armed country with skid rows littering the landscape from sea to shining sea next to depraved wealth, a middle class either drunk on shopping, hoarding possessions or high on heroine, the highest prison population in the world, and gun totting rednecks preaching fake religion is now appropriately headed by Nurse Ratched-Trump of the insane asylum. Unfortunately, it is the Fort Knox of the planet, and therefore can inflict financial and all manner of tyranny and pain at the order of Zionist kooks who call the shots.

The pompous ass Trump who claims to make the greatest deals, the best and hugest deals thinks he invented the wheel, but instead tries to bully the rest of the world into submission so he can later tweet about his unmatched negotiating skills and brag about his superior intellect ad nauseum.

There's no trusting a shithole country like that run by a mad tin-pot dictator. North Korea better keep its nukes.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 29, 2018 12:42:50 AM | 38

@27 ashley albanese

Before you want to claim high morale ground, you need to remember where those capitalist elite learn their stuff.

Where else besides from western universities and you don't even have the decency to criticize the west? Only blaming the Chinese?

I also want to remind you that not all Chinese educated in the west become western-centric in their way of thinking. A great many of them are loyal to China.

And lastly, you need to take a look at yourself in the mirror since your country is infested by FETO terrorists, your country is pretty much screwed and you still have time to critize China? You'r making yourself looks like a fool; a laughing stock of the world.

You're nothing but a sore loser.

www.eurasiafuture.com/2018/08/01/fetos-poison-threatens-peace-and-stability-in-the-balkans/

Posted by: Face The Fact | Aug 29, 2018 12:55:50 AM | 39

Belligerent is certainly the word of the day! It was done on purpose if Rogin is involved.

Posted by: AG17 | Aug 29, 2018 1:42:10 AM | 40

@ Face The Fact | Aug 29, 2018 12:55:50 AM | 38

"Face the fact" - if it would be like this. An opinion is countered with plain counter-propaganda. This is all. Your nickname is a lie.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Aug 29, 2018 6:10:36 AM | 41

arlof1 @23

Every media, be it corporate controlled CNN/NYT/WaPo & Co, be it state controlled RT, Sputnik, Global Times, is doing its fair share of propaganda. The slight difference is that the Western MSM is doing it mostly for the interests of MIC & banksters and its minions, while the Russian and Chinese ones are doing it in general for the sake of their perceived national interests.

Here we go, RT: 'Are they sure it wasn't the Russians?' Clinton's emails were reportedly hacked by China :

It remains to be seen if the hacking allegations against China will be given as much spotlight as those against Russia, however.

Rest assured, RT, just like Western MSM, will keep on peddling the same mis/disinformation about China when it see suits Russia's interests/agenda. This is real geopolitics. (RT & RI used to delete my posts refuting some of the nonsensical comments there.)

Trump is now super happy that he's got another excuse to accuse "bad China meddling US", and can feel free to tie everything possible to his trade war against China as we predicated in precious discussion: Trump Ties North Korea Talks To Trade Deal With China

Posted by: lulu | Aug 29, 2018 6:38:44 AM | 42

North Koreans might be "belligerent", but by now it's a proven fact the UZA (United Zionists of Amerikkka) are non-agreement capable!

Posted by: LXV | Aug 29, 2018 6:54:43 AM | 43

Belligerent = warlike

A belligerent is an individual, group, country, or other entity that acts in a hostile manner, such as engaging in combat. Belligerent comes from Latin, literally meaning "one who wages war". More at Wikipedia

Hmmm... who can that be?

Maybe the belligerent is the one with the $700,000,000,000 annual military budget.

Since the United States was founded in 1776, it has been at war during 214 out of its 235 calendar years of existence.

Posted by: fast freddy | Aug 29, 2018 7:05:43 AM | 44

All your USA=Zionist posturings aside here, the USA under Trump has shown that it cannot be counted on to honor agreements, be they arms talks, nuclear deals, trade deals or military partnerships.

The world will learn to work without and work around America, I cannot see how this could possibly strengthen America overall, at best it could be of advantage of certain groups within the US.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Aug 29, 2018 7:13:40 AM | 45

Lulu@41

Is it possible that the "MIC & banksters and its minions" are the equivalent of the Russian oligarchs and Chinese party elites!

Posted by: Pft | Aug 29, 2018 8:02:09 AM | 46

LXV @ 42
I love your---- UZA United zionists of Amerkkka
Can I use that ? It's brilliant or is it copyright ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 29, 2018 8:09:48 AM | 47

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 28, 2018 5:00:56 PM | 24

So will it be a peace between North and South sponsored by China or sponsored by the US?

Or will North and South decide to be a united nuclear power?

I find it difficult to imagine a scenario where a one party security state headed by a deity dissolves gracefully into a new environment. But maybe Kim Yong Un hates his life and has a plan on how to escape.

There is another angle and it involves Russia.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 29, 2018 9:34:03 AM | 48

Oft@45

There are tons of corrupted Party elites who've enriched themselves brazenly and shamelessly as their counterparts in iFUKUS. But you shouldn't simply equate the whole Chinese party elites to "MIC & banksters and its minions" because of the following fundamental difference:


- CPC nationalized the land and then re-distributed it to all peasants, each of them got a piece of land that they can call their own for the first time in China's history. "MIC & banksters and its minions" won't ever voluntarily share their land and money/profits with the poor.


- CPC nullified the unequal and colonial style "Sino US friendship and mutual assistance treaty" signed by then Chang Kai-shek's Kumingtang government and US, which basically opened the floodgate to American capitalist predators to ran rampant in China.

CPC kicked out all the Britons, Frenchs, Germans and Japanese who had hold the top and senior positions of China's Maritime Customs Service. Can you imagine the Inspector-General of US/US/France/Germany's Custom had been a Chinese for almost 100 years to serve China's interests?

(This is why Mao is so hated by US & Western ruling elites, and CPC has got so much smearing campaigns going on against it.)

"MIC & banksters and its minions" won't ever give up their pursuit of profits for the sake of national interests. The best example is their continuing of unjustified and useless wars for profits: Afghanistan (17-year), Iraq (14-year), Syria (7-year), Iran (in planning). The trillions of $$$ could be well spent for debt cancellations for the ordinary American people!


- CPC has set the "Targeted Poverty Alleviation" as its government short-term (2021) and mid-term (2049) goals, and requires all party cadres from village/county/province/central government to go the poorest areas in their respective regions with financial aids, training and economic incentives to help the poorest and weakest people to be able to live a decent lives on their in long term.

Their annual appraisal is linked with how the living standards of the poor people under their responsibility is improved. Anyone who wants to climb the career ladder to become a mayor, governor of a province or member of politburo (the final power center), he/she has to show the scorecard for his/her working.

I haven't heard any such initiatives taken by any "MIC & banksters and its minions" to help the poor in FUKUS. Maybe I am not enlightened on this topic? You are welcome to educate me.


- Contrary to Fed, the Central Bank (People's Bank of China) is controlled by the government not some private bankers. Don't believe the nonsense about NWO taking control of China.


- Bribery is crimes in China, not legalized as lobbying in iFUKUS. IF it were legalized as in the US, then the corruption number in China would be dramatically reduced.


As I said in our previous discussion on last Wednesday, of course, some of the party elites, rich Chinese and their minions (in media and academy) have been pushing very hard for 30+ years to completely adopt the "advanced US systems" to secure their gains and powers. Xi is trying to reverse the trends. (That's why you read/saw the uproars from MSM and online social media, both inside and outside China when the two-term limits were deleted from the constitution.)


There are still ongoing corruptions in China; CPC has made some big mistakes and is still tumbling here and there. But it is too simple to think the Party elites = "MIC & banksters and its minions," because they know as we know that people will throw them off when they behave like "MIC & banksters and its minions", who put their own interest above everything and everyone.


Every Chinese knows " Water can carry the boat but can also turn it upside down. "(水能载舟,亦能覆舟 - by Xun Zi, 313 BC -238 BC), a famous Chinese philosopher and educator). CPC elites probably know it much better than average citizen.


Posted by: lulu | Aug 29, 2018 10:48:35 AM | 49

To understand how and why CPC thinks and acts the way it is, maybe you should know a little bit about the fundamental Chinese (ancient) governing philosophy and ethics.

China has been a secular country since Zhou Dynasty (1046 BC), the Emperor and Central Government did not need to rely on a religion body/head to justify his legitimacy as a ruler, rather it depended on the Mandate of Heaven :

The people are of supreme importance; the altars of the gods of earth and grain come next; last comes the ruler. That is why he who gains the confidence of the multitudinous people will be Emperor... When a feudal lord endangers the altars of the gods of earth and grain, he should be replaced. When the sacrificial animals are sleek, the offerings are clean and the sacrifices are observed at due times, and yet floods and droughts come [by the agency of heaven], then the altars should be replaced.

— Mencius (372–289 BC or 385–303 or 302 BC)

Different to the Western's definition of legitimacy of government, which I think the Western put great emphasis on the process legitimacy, Chinese defines legitimacy via the final governing results. CPS' mandate is to improve the lives of Chinese and safeguard the sovereignty. This is where its legitimacy comes from.

If CPC elites behaves the way the MIC/Bankter & their minions do, it will be thrown off.

Posted by: lulu | Aug 29, 2018 10:59:16 AM | 50

U.S. corporate media has been demonizing North Korea even longer than it has demonized Cuba. About 18 years ago I began having doubts about the media portrayal of Cuba so I arranged to go there to see for myself. I was amazed to see how happy and healthy the people were. Poor, yes, but industrious and intelligent about using what they had available to make life better for everyone. Now I'm wondering if corporate media portrayal of North Korea has been equally false. Corporate media and the U.S. government appear to expect the N.K. people to rebel against their government with the first cruise missile attacks and to welcome American soldiers as liberators. The powers that be in the U.S. may be underestimating the N.K. population. It might be a case of the U.S. believing its own propaganda for so long that it pays an enormous price for its ignorance.

Posted by: Chas | Aug 29, 2018 11:55:35 AM | 51

You are dead right.

NK never agreed to de-nuclearize, instead the DPRK agreed to a series of steps that may lead to de-nuclearization of the Korean Peninsula. Definitively there were pre-conditions, that include4d normaliztion of relations with the US, and a peace treaty.

Neo-con-owned western media are now twisting the plot, claiming NK agreed to lose both their nuclear weapons capacity, and ballistic missiles.

Which is nothing short of mis-information, if not complete dis-information.

DPRK will not lose their 'trump' card of intercontinental nuclear missiles, now that they have joined the 'club', without serious quid pro quo from those have continually declared their intention of destroying the DPRK, for decades.

I will note that no-one in the nuclear 'club' made any objection to Pakistan nor India developing nuclear weapons.

Posted by: Ant. | Aug 29, 2018 1:06:54 PM | 52

It would be deadly foolish to EVER give up the nukes. History has proven every time that NATO will only attack defenseless nations.

Posted by: fastfreddy | Aug 29, 2018 2:02:46 PM | 53

lulu @50

"Mandate of Heaven" is a religious concept, although with a component of rational political science (note the Book of Josephus with principles of counter-cyclical budgeting, tax the surplus in the fat years and spend, with current deficit, during lean years, just an example of rational social science in the Bible). Perversely, "meritocracy" is a Western borrowing from Chinese culture, at it is much less rational than it appears. Allegedly, it started with Western savants being deeply impressed with the concept of civil service in China with examinations and ranks, and Britain copied it to rule its empire, and it worked OK for about 200 years. Perhaps abandoning the study of Greek and Roman classics as the condition of joining upper echelons of the ruling bureaucracy led to decline. Tell glorified pencil pushers at Pentagon "they make desert and they call it peace" and they will have no idea what are to talking about.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 29, 2018 2:06:59 PM | 54

lulu @49

Corruption can be seen in every major country (and majority of the lesser ones), and China is definitely a major country. Also, political system have mixtures of "power giving riches" and "riches giving power", and the absence of legal bribery in American style in China does not mean that the ruling class there lacks ways to achieve riches and perpetuating their rule.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 29, 2018 2:19:20 PM | 55

PB @55--

It must be recalled that Xi extolled the great importance of his anti-corruption drive at the recent CPC Congress, a drive that's seen several guilty of corruption sentenced to death. Xi well knows the point lulu made in her(?) last two graphs. Putin also has a similar drive ongoing within Russia as one of the USSR's major faults was elite corruption. Essentially within Russia and China, corruption is synonymous with Treason and is treated with the seriousness it deserves.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 29, 2018 2:49:03 PM | 56

' b '
How about doing a post on Chemnitz , Germany ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 29, 2018 2:53:52 PM | 57

Chas @ 51:

I suggest you find and watch Aleksa Vulovic and Alex Apollonov's short documentary "The Haircut" on Youtube.com. In 2017 Vulovic and Apollonov travelled to North Korea to test the Western MSM story that only 28 men's hairstyles are permitted by Kim Jong-un's government. Vulovic took with him a photo of a fancy haircut (not one of the 28 "approved" cuts and complete with twirled-up moustache) to a hairdresser in North Korea and asked her if she would cut his hair in that style.

Apollonov and Vulovic also talk briefly about the history of North Korea and the saturation bombing the country suffered during the Korean War. They also refer to Operation Foal Eagle, the annual military exercises that the US and South Korea stage over March - April near the North Korean border; since 2015 these exercises have included practising assassinations of North Korean leaders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foal_Eagle

The Russian-born US journalist / film-maker Andre Vltchek has visited Pyongyang and his film of the visit can be viewed at this link:
https://countercurrents.org/2018/07/28/andre-vltchek-releases-his-north-korean-documentary-online/

Also if you Google "North Korea" and "animation", you will discover numerous articles discussing the animation industry in North Korea and the quality of animated films the country produces (said to be top notch) for Japanese and European companies.

Posted by: Jen | Aug 29, 2018 6:39:56 PM | 58

Trump tweets idea that "there is no reason at this time to be spending large amounts of money on joint US-South Korea war games" along with a bunch of gobbledygook about the trade war with China. It's interesting to compare how Sputnik reports the story at the above link versus the RT story here.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 29, 2018 7:25:04 PM | 59

Interesting article on corruption in China

There is a sense in some circles Xi may be using the campaign as a guise for removing political competitors

https://thediplomat.com/2017/07/where-is-chinas-corruption-crackdown/

As for Putins anti corruption measures. Well, he saw a lot of corruption himself and there are some allegations he benefitted during his days in St Petersburg. No idea how true it is. His mentor was forced into exile for corruption. As in China there is no way of knowing if the purpose is just to limit the corruption to a chosen few or to weed out competitors.

Of course the corruption in US is hardly any less, only its basically been legalized for the elite class

As for Chinas plan to tackle Poverty, 50 years ago the US declared War on Poverty. The path taken was to put 2million in jail at any given time in the parallel War on Drugs. Today MSM just ignores poverty in US. Maybe China has more success.

Posted by: Pft | Aug 29, 2018 7:28:08 PM | 60

Reuters is completely untrustworthy. I will never forgive them for how they reported the death of Mireille Hindoyan and her younger brother. First Reuters implied they were killed as a result of pro-government shelling in Aleppo. When they were called on it, they said there were "reports" it had been a rebel shell but this could not be confirmed. Apparently, it would be too expensive for Reuters to employ on-the-ground reporters of their own, so they picked up the story from somewhere else and instead of reporting the information, they changed it to suit their agenda.

Agence France Press did a much better job, picking up an interview of the parents.

Posted by: anti_republocrat | Aug 29, 2018 7:38:56 PM | 61

Further to my 56--

Although 4 years old, this article shows Xi's anti-corruption drive to be serious and aimed everywhere, dispelling the notion it's for his own political gain. Here's a 2016 discussion about the campaign. Perhaps the most comprehensive coverage is being done by the South China Morning Post, as this current article has a sidebar linking to SCMP's many articles on the subject.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 29, 2018 8:30:40 PM | 62

Karlof1

One can only imagine the extent of corruption if after over 25 years into a market economy it s still being such a massive problem despite the crackdown.

There is a reason Chinas income/wealth inequality is so high and comparable to the decadent US. China has more billionaires than the US and social welfare spending as a percentage of GDP is half the OECD average, lower than even the US . The rich own the most property but there is no property tax (only transaction and capital gain taxes) Unlike the US China has control over the Central Bank. Money is no object, they can simply print it without getting it from taxes or borrowing from foreigners. Since the onshore RMB is not free floating they dont have to worry about a currency attack.

Not trying to paint too bad a picture, they have done some amazing things, but social discontent is a real danger so they have to pay lip service to corruption. SCMP. and much of the Chinese media are as dubious as MSM in the west.

I guess we must give Xi a chance. No choice as he may be around for awhile, but only at the grace of those he is cracking down on with the corruption hammer

Perhaps the US and Taiwan will give him the external threat he needs to gain the support he needs to stay in power. Trump may be his dream come true.

Posted by: Pft | Aug 29, 2018 10:56:29 PM | 63

14

It's becoming clear the 2018 mid-term contest will rely on razor-edge stress positioning of imminent war, and full-on waterboarding how MAGA (gurgle) and WINNING!(gasp, choke) Der Trump and Reaganopols have made US.

This will rapidly devolve into deficit, debt, omnibus, unfunded crisis after crisis destroying health and human services. Bernie and Gang have clearly laid down the psyop they will promise Guaranteed Personal Income and Medicare For All, the way the Titanic's happy crew in the lifeboats threw PFDs to the drowners in the icy water.

The Dark Event Horizon will jink bloody raw at supersonic closing speed and then everything should blow up by 2022. Personally, I'm bugging out in mid-summer 2020 before the major election, because I'm betting it will blow up then. Keep reminding yourself the only Jews who survived WW2 were the ones who bailed before KrystalNacht.

The countdown ends exactly 800 days from now.

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 30, 2018 12:30:29 AM | 64

52

Justvremember DPRK isn't in 'The Club', they neither have nuclear weapons (now that they have no money to buy old Soviet warheads from the Israeli Junta in Ukraine) and certainly no miniaturization needed for the ICBMs they never had (now that they have no money to buy old Soviet rocket motors from the Israeli Junta in Ukraine) and certainly not guidance systems to arc them over downrange or targeting ability without GPS. The are a Straw Tiger.

Posted by: Chipnik | Aug 30, 2018 12:41:29 AM | 65

@ Chipnik 65
Wut. I read your post with some trepidation. Sometimes they are good and sometimes I can make no sense of them. Is it homegrown you are smoking? I used to do that and it can be very powerful, but dare not anymore as we have harsh laws. Or is it just opioids you are eating, please dont , they will kill you.
But do try and make you posts into sense, please.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Aug 30, 2018 12:52:30 AM | 66

@pft 63
Give China a chance, its an unequal society, but the latest years has has brought a lot of wealth to China. I do remember Nixon going there back in the day, it was dirt poor, it is not like that today.
China's goal is to lift 10 million people out of poverty a year. What is the US' s goal?
To make the rich more rich!
If I were a poor person I think China would do more for me than US would.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Aug 30, 2018 12:59:00 AM | 67

@49, 50 lulu

Thank you for these words on China. It agrees totally with what I have recently read by Ramin Mazaheri, publishing at the Saker. In case you're not familiar with his work, here's one of an 8-part series on China's system of governance, and its living revolution: Do you prefer the 1% or The Party? (Or: Why China wins)

What is clear from what you say, especially as evaluated by esteemed colleagues here in this thread, is that our western understanding of China is tainted to saturation point by false assumptions and predicates - our true understanding is practically zero. We have a lot of rethinking, and re-defining, to do, simply to match the correct words to understand what China is attempting to do with its ancient and vibrant society.

Thanks also to karlof1 for jumping in with supporting collateral pieces, at #56 and 62.

I'm just passing through at the moment, and I have no point to make here other than that we in the west and even in this respected forum are filled with error in what we think we know about about many non-western societies. The veil has covered more than we realize, and as I read the stories of nations like Iran, North Korea, Cuba and China, I begin to appreciate what the mis-information dividend of the Cold War has done to my thinking.

Perhaps it's just me.

Posted by: Grieved | Aug 30, 2018 1:12:00 AM | 68

Chipnik @64:

The end is nigh in 800 days. Be careful on making predictions based on time. IMO, it's all event driven.

Posted by: Ian | Aug 30, 2018 1:41:02 AM | 69

Mark2 @47

You're free to use it mate, it's "copyrighted" under CC BY-NC 4.0.

Posted by: LXV | Aug 30, 2018 4:10:36 AM | 70

Thanx @ 70 LXV it's so so true ! Don't let um stop you and stay safe !!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Aug 30, 2018 6:03:32 AM | 71

Chas @ 51:

I couldn't remember the name of an article by a French author on the North Korean economy and Western media misrepresentations of it earlier. But now that I am home, I have managed to fish out my hard copy of the article and can now look it up online.

Here it is:

Henri Feron, "Doom and Gloom or Economic Boom? The Myth of the 'North Korean Collapse' ", The Asia-Pacific Journal, Volume 12, Issue 18, No 3, May 5, 2014
https://apjjf.org/-Henri-Feron/4113/article.pdf

Posted by: Jen | Aug 30, 2018 7:22:44 AM | 72

DLA@67

If you were a poor person and not “diseased, disabled, and deserted.” you get no support in China. Zip

I spent much time in China from late 80''s to 2004 and lived in Shanghai for a time. Quite amazing transformation I saw in Shanghai BTW

In 1993 I remember seeing the first KFC opening in Shanghai. A line of at least 1mile then. At the bund i remember my wife asking if there were any ferrys to take across the river. At the time there were a bunch of 2 story grey buildings spewing black smoke. I said who would want to go there?.

An amazing transformation. No doubt

I lived in HK in the aftermath of 1989. A ghost town for a year or two. After Deng changed course.,good times followed as
China capitulated to the west, although nowhere to the extent Russia did. Sanctions were lifted, they got MFN trading status and dollars flowed in. Then Hk was acquired after being promised to them in the 80's by the global elites and the chinese party elites had a place to park their money in a tax haven that they controlled , unlike Russian oligarchs who were forced to use British controlled tax havens or the US

I still live in the region but since I retired no longer visit China, so perhaps my opinion is not as informed as it once was. China is not the model I would want any country to follow though. Taiwan is a better model although I worry about recent US influence there that might corrupt their democracy

I do hope China can be as some hope it can be. Faith is not enough though. They need to address the wealth inequality and improve the social welfare system before I jump on their band wagon


Posted by: Pft | Aug 30, 2018 9:03:25 AM | 73

The arguments of b can be rebutted simply:

"...But Pompeo says that Kim is belligerent, and Pompeo is an honorable man."

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Aug 30, 2018 9:30:09 AM | 74

Here we have the UN ordered by the Outlaw US Empire to deny South Korea's attempt to conduct a survey in preparation of establishing a rail link through the DMZ! This clearly illustrates the deficit of sovereignty RoK has over its own territory. I hope Koreans are suitably outraged for this won't be the first such stunt employed to stop their desired rapprochement with the North.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 30, 2018 12:54:27 PM | 75

Jen @ 58 and 72

Wow! Great videos. The Faces of North Korea brought tears to my eyes. Thank you very much.

Posted by: Chas | Aug 30, 2018 2:16:32 PM | 76

karlof1 @75

Not to mention a potential Russia-SK gas pipeline...

Posted by: et Al | Aug 30, 2018 2:27:51 PM | 77

Pft@ 73

If you were a poor person and not “diseased, disabled, and deserted.” you get no support in China.

It is not true. Since end of 1990s, CPC established "Minimum Income Security System". There are ca 75 million peasants and 23 million city dwellers are on it. Obviously, you can't compare the basic income they received to that in US, for China is still a developing country. Even though as Nr. 2 economy in the world, its GDP per capita (PPP) is only 28% of that in US.

China is not "the" new universal model for any other countries, rather it merely provides an alternative developing model suitable for its own history/culture/nature background.

Definitely agree with you that CPC needs to continue curb the the wealth inequality and improve the social welfare system. But we should also be aware that good welfare system needs tons of $$$, which has to be accumulated along the way, and remember China had no colony like FUKUS to exploit. It takes time.

Dear Pft, HK was NOT "acquired" rather "returned" to China after the 99-year lease expired. Thatcher went to Beijing to negotiate in 1980s asking to remain British administration in exchange of the return of the sovereignty of HK back to China. Deng flatly refused her.

As usual, British left behind quite a few “landmines" for CPC, one of which is that Britain issued about millions of special British passports to HK elites in government, police, judiciary, business and education, etc. Till today China doesn't know who these people with double-nationalisty are. Britain refuses to provide a list of its "left-behind."

CPC thought HK might provide it with practical experience about democratic transformation via HK's democratizing process, but now, I guess, has given it up after the NED sponsored "Umbrella Revolution."

I used to think Taiwan is a better and future model for China, but not now when seeing how its so-called democratic system is abused by self-interested politicians to pursue their own personal agenda rather than seeking the real benefits for the majority.


PS. Haha, miles of lines in front KFC to wait for to take a bite of "the Western style of life." So true then!

Posted by: lulu | Aug 30, 2018 2:34:15 PM | 78

Grieved @ 68

Thank you for the link. Yes, I have read Ramin Mazaheri's article and really appreciate that he spent so much time writing them. The general message is alright, some interpretations are very interesting, but some of the details I think maybe a bit off-target or too rosy for me, probably due to the lack of real grasp of Chinese culture, history and ground level reality?

So you see how difficult it is for us to really understand each other even if we have the best intention, let alone all these distraction/obfuscation through dis/mis information via MSM propaganda.


Den Lille Abe @ 67

China is neither a hell nor a utopia. CPC is intent to serve the people since its party constitute states it is a "people's party", but there is corruption, lack of fund/experience/competence, etc. Lots of hope and also lots of problems at the same time.

Posted by: lulu | Aug 30, 2018 3:01:09 PM | 79

Pft @63

Corruption and income inequality are the biggest problems without any doubt. How CPC deals with them will decide its fate.

Unlike Democrats who can blame Republicans or vise versa, CPC is a full responsibility party , i.e. it has the absolute authority and therefore it has to bear all the responsibility/consequence as well. That's why governors/mayors/heads of towns/village in China have been called "parent officials" since ancient time.

Have you ever thought that "China has more billionaires than the US" has something to do with 1.4 billion Chinese vs 328 million American? According to a Credit Suisse report in 2015: " The Chinese middle class has grown to outnumber the U.S. middle class for the first time, with 109 million Chinese adults now counted in that category compared with 92 million American adults. "

The rich certainly own a lot of property but definitely not "the most property," since government has been issuing bans and regulations to tighten loans to prevent hoarding and speculation. For example, each local-resident family is allowed to two apartments, each non local-resident/family is limited to one apartment; You must hold the apartment(s) for 3 or 5 years before you are allowed to sell it, otherwise punitive sales tax on capital gains will be applied. Property tax has already been undergoing in selected cities for test ran and it is expected to be introduced nation wide in 3 or 5 years' time.

Chinese government's budget is based on taxes like any modern country nowadays. You can't simply print money, which could result in hyper inflation and destroying people's life and economy.

About the social spending, I try to answer you @78.

Yes, there are far far too many presstitutes in Chinese media, both offline and online, who worship NYT/WaPo/BCC, CNN less so after its boldfaced lies and misinformation about Lhasa riot in 2008 and Urumqi terror attack in 2009. The worst sort of intelligentsia are still brainwashing the students with neoliberalism on campus. The disastrous actors/actress/film makers are copying the worst of hollywood (celebrity fetish, culture cringe, champion identity politics, all sorts of neoliberal garbage......)

These are some of the biggest challenges not only for CPC but also Chinese as a whole.

Xi doesn't need US and Taiwan to "give him the external threat" to stay in power, his anti-corruption and poverty alleviation campaigns have already won him enough support from the people.


karlof1 @56 & 59, Pft@63, PB@55

Here are the lists of corrupted high level officials (vice minister/governor, CEOs of SOEs, generals, vice State Councilors/vice prime-minister, CPPCC & NPC aka Chinese congress & senate members) who have been arrested and/or sentenced: From 2012 - Oct. 1017 (total 188, most from 2014 onwards), Nov. 2017 - August, 2018, (total 19, still counting) .

Lower level officials, rich men or CEOs of private companies who are arrested and/or sentenced for corruption are not included here.

Posted by: lulu | Aug 30, 2018 5:19:48 PM | 80

Piotr Berman @54

According to wikipedia , the separation of church and state is regarded as the creation of a secular state. Being secular state/society doesn't mean we don't have our belief, be it "Mandate of Heaven", Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism or ancestry worshiping.

You are right that "meritocracy" is "borrowed" by Western from China. May I paraphrase FUKUS stole Chinese intellectual property but never never paid China a dime for it! :) (This list could go on with silk, china, tea, gunpowder, paper making ......) Unfortunately, US is no more a meritocracy now just taking a look at the war criminals and frauders such as Bush Jr, Obama, Clinton, McCain, CIA's Brennan & Co all have got more money, more power, more public influence and even became national hero without any punition.

Posted by: lulu | Aug 30, 2018 6:12:33 PM | 81

@ 64

What if the worst that can happen is that there will never be an end and we are recycled into infinity and blowing up this planet will make absolutely no difference because there's another paradise-looking hell out there in the universe to replace this one. And for anyone who doesn't believe this is hell; wait until you're delivered in a place like Somalia, Yemen, Sudan or Gaza just to name a few. Trump for instance may go from pooping on a gilded toilet to doing same in a hole in the ground in mud shack or sleeping in a cardboard box in his next go-around.

Posted by: Circe | Aug 30, 2018 6:39:19 PM | 82

Nuclear bombs ARE FAKE

Posted by: Ari.asulin | Aug 30, 2018 7:18:43 PM | 83

lulu @80--

Thanks very much for your contributions and link to the arrested corrupt. I've long tried to learn about and understand China, not just its present, and like to think I've learned a few things over the decades. In 1999, I conducted research showing the Chinese Diaspora to be the driving force responsible for the vast majority of Foreign Direct Investment fueling China's economy up to that time which countered the BigLie Media narrative. As a historian, I'm not at all surprised by the civilizational circle returning to its beginnings in Asia: One of my favorite questions to ask students was to explain why Asia had so many people when the West is supposedly its superior.

In his latest essay, Pepe Escobar asserts in its title that the Eurasian Powers seek 'Revenge;" do you see any hint of that within Xi's or CCP's statements? All I see is a very loud statement being issued through deeds in the Asian version of oneupsmanship. I think China's accomplishments stupendous compared with the picture conveyed to me by Edgar Snow's Red Star Over China. Sure, China has many growing pains, but I wonder when the time comes if it will be able to transform itself into a resilient, sustainable polity capable of saying no to further economic expansion.


Again, thanks for your contributions!

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 30, 2018 7:50:38 PM | 84

CNN moved into the FRAY. not "FRAIL" I know English is not your first language and typos happen to even the best of us. I offer this as helpful, not a base criticism.

Posted by: Scottindallas | Sep 1, 2018 9:12:35 AM | 85

Piotr Berman @55

Your are right corruption can be seen in every country. What I leaned to say is that the rich Chinese and their minions as well as their Western counterparts can't have their wish fulfilled, though have been trying hard for 30 plus years to force/cajole/trick CPC to totally adopt US legal and economic systems. Not to legalize bribery in China is just an example to show CPC is still holding on its fundamental principles and not capitulating to this enormous inside and outside pressure.

Grieved @ 68

Some quick words I'd like to add: I have learned quite a bit about Iran society and system from Ramin Mazaheri's articles, and wish he could write more about Iran's culture, history and politics, since my grasp of Iran is too limited and mostly shaped by Western MSM.

Posted by: lulu | Sep 2, 2018 3:19:49 PM | 86

This all discussion about north Korea getting so ridiculous. At my opinion such small country don't deserve so many attention. In some kind it's one of good sociology research topic

Posted by: Allen | Sep 17, 2018 11:42:28 AM | 87

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