Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 05, 2018

Syria Sitrep - UN Refugee Numbers For Daraa Are Mere Propaganda - They Make No Sense At All

UN organizations claim high internal refugee numbers in southwest Syria due to recent fighting in Daraa governorate. A review of the evidence finds that these numbers are implausible.

Over the last two weeks the long announced operation of the Syrian army and its allies to liberate southwest Syria from terrorist organization and 'rebels' proceeded well. The eastern part (red) of the 'rebel' held area has been recovered without much serious fighting. Most towns in the area accepted the Russian offers to reconcile with the Syrian government. The various local 'rebel' groups in those towns handed their heavy weapons to the Syrian army, joined the army or laid down their arms. Other fled further south. Those groups who resisted received a short but sharp lashing by the Russian airforce and Syrian artillery until they were convinced to give up or move out. There were only few casualties. The Syrian army recovered more then ten tanks and a huge amount of ammunition (video) that the sponsors of the rebels had previously delivered to them. Among the weapons found were at least 7 U.S. delivered TOW anti tank missile systems. A fifteen minutes long report by the Russian language ANNA TV documents the campaign (vid, English subs).

Daraa governorate, July 5 2018 - bigger

Over the last few days negotiations with groups which control the M5 highway and the Nassib-Jaber border crossing to Jordan proceeded but failed. Among other issues the 'rebels' demanded to tax future transports through the crossing. The demand is unreasonable and was rejected. This morning a new Syrian army operation was launched with the aim to reach the crossing and to reestablish government control over the border area.

The outcome is assured. The 'rebels' can not match the air and artillery capabilities of the Syrian army and its allies. The borders to Jordan and Israel are closed and no resupplies are coming through. By the end of the week the Syrian army will control the area and the border crossing.

The fighting will then continue westwards along the border to envelope and besiege the southern part of the city of Daraa which is still under 'rebel' control. The following operation will take the western area on the borders towards the Israel occupied Golan Heights. That phase of the operation will be more violent. There are several hard line groups in that area including an Islamic State aligned group and the al-Qaeda offshoots Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham and Ahrar al Sham. The U.S. has made clear that it will not intervene in the Syrian operations in the southwest. Israel retracted its demands of an additional buffer zone. The UN demarcation line of 1974 between the Israel occupied Golan and Syria will be reestablished. The battle in the southwest is essentially coming to an end.

There are still attempts by the usual suspects to involve the U.S. into the fight by warning of the "Iranian" bogeyman on Israel's (undeclared) border. But there are no Iranian units in southwest Syria and the Trump administration is unlikely to fall for such calls.

Other propaganda outlets raise the claimed plight of refugees in the area. But it is not clear where those refugees are supposed to have come from. The now cleared eastern part of the Daraa governorate was taken via reconciliation agreements with relatively little fighting. Civilians stayed in place or have since returned. The operation towards the Nassib-Jaber crossing only started today. Thus this report published by AFP on July 2 made little sense:

Over 270,000 displaced by south Syria violence, UN says:

Daraa (Syria) (AFP) - More than a quarter of a million people have fled a Russian-backed government onslaught on southern Syria, the United Nations said Monday, in the latest civilian exodus in the seven-year war.
...
The violence has pushed waves of terrified civilians out of their homes at a shocking rate, the UN's refugee agency (UNHCR) said Monday.

"We were expecting the number of displaced in southern Syria to reach 200,000, but it has already exceeded 270,000 people in record time," said UNHCR spokesman in Amman Mohammad Hawari.

No further source for the claimed number of refugees was given. A report by the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) published yesterday even speaks of up to 325,000 displaced persons. Where are those supposed to have come from?

The report (pdf) says:

The sustained violence in south-west Syria has further resulted in the displacement of some 285,000-325,000 individuals since 17 June. Of those, up to 189,000 IDPs have moved to areas in immediate proximity to the Golan Heights and up to 59,000 displaced to areas in close proximity to the Al-Nasib border crossing with Jordan.

The report includes this map.


Source: OCHA report - bigger

The arrows on the map say that 54,000 to 59,000 fled from the eastern part of the formerly 'rebel' held area which the Syrian army recovered by reconciliation. That number is already inexplicably high. Even more curiously the map shows most of the "285,000-325,000 IDPs" (Internally Displaced Persons) in the northwestern part of the rebel held area.


Quneitra detail of OCHA map - bigger

A large stream of IDPs, 164,000-171,000, is shown in the upper left of the map. Why are people supposedly fleeing that area?

We can compare the OCHA map with the constantly updated frontline and news map on Liveuamap. Here is the map of the larger area of June 17 on the left and of July 5 on the right.


June 17 - bigger - July 5 - bigger

There is no visible change in the frontlines of the Quneitra region in the upper left of these map. A review of the news from the area, including through the archives of the opposition friendly Syrian Observatory and the newsfeed of Liveuamap, finds that there were no ground attacks in the area during the last two to three weeks. There are also no reports of aerial bombing or of artillery strikes. There area was completely quiet. There is also no news at all of any large refugee movement in that area.

Neither the OCHA map nor the UN report explain how, when or why 164,000-171,000 people supposedly moved the few miles towards the Israel occupied Golan Heights. There is no evidence that this claimed movement of IDPs, who may or may not exist, happened at all.

Where does the OCHA claim come from?

The nearly unreadable fine-print of the OCHA map says about the "Map Data Source(s)":

The data of this map has a limited number of sources, including parties of the conflict. The data has not been independently verified and is subject to error or omission, deliberate or otherwise, by the various sources.

There is the explanation for the unbelievable high refugee numbers the UN is peddling around. They are based on claims made by the Islamic State, the al-Qaeda offshoot Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham and various other sectarian "rebel" groups and their propaganda outlets. These claims have not be verified at all. Whoever made up that map did not even ask if the numbers were plausible or made any sense. They obviously don't.

It is irresponsible that UN spokespersons come out and make claims of an extreme refugee flow when only some dubious 'rebel' sources say that these happened and no reasonable explanation exists at all why such a movement might have taken place.

There has so far only been moderate fighting during the two weeks of the Daraa campaign. Most of the affected towns reconciled with the  Syrian army without any fight. The real recent refugee flow in the whole Daraa governorate is thus more likely in the order of ten-thousands than in the order of hundred-thousands.

The UN must stop to distribute such alarming numbers that evidently can not be backed up at all. Otherwise its credibility and long term efficiency will be severely damaged.

Posted by b on July 5, 2018 at 03:26 PM | Permalink

Comments

The truth has long been a casualty in the Western/Saudi/Turkish/Israeli war on Syria. Sadly, agencies such as the UN and OPCW and western NGOs function as propaganda arms for NATO more so than actual useful agencies dedicated to helping people.

This practice of releasing false information with a small disclaimer may actually have originated with the so-called non-GAAP accounting figures that publicly traded corporations commonly released. In the past, only GAAP (generally accepted accounting practices) figures were released, but once companies figured out they could bamboozle lazy business reporters with fantasy figures without any drawbacks, they proceeded to do so. Now corporate income/profit statements are regularly touted even if the actual GAAP numbers are completely different.

Now we have the "thirteen intelligence agencies say it's so" type garbage bandied about on a daily basis, accompanied by disclaimers that admit the info is not verified in any way--but because it's coming from supposedly reputable sources the media and politicians can cite it as it was based on facts on the ground.

Posted by: WorldBLee | Jul 5, 2018 4:39:07 PM | 1

Here is a similar (prettier?) Pro-Government map of the same area. The SAA is now claimed to be about 8km from Nassib crossing.

Peto Lucem map

Posted by: stonebird | Jul 5, 2018 4:45:09 PM | 2

Thanks for the update, b. The most obvious explanation for a UN body issuing unverified refugee reports is "funding conditions" imposed by Christian Colonial UN members who are pro-"Israel" and AmeriKKKan vassals. Neolib Dogma dictates that the easiest way to neuter a properly & legally-constituted regulatory or oversight body is to starve it of funds until it is dramatically understaffed.

In Oz, successive Liberal Govts have done this to the Banking Regulator, the Consumer Protection organisation, the ACCC, and the Taxation Dept! And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Also Known As ... "Small Government" ("small enough to drag into the bathroom and drown in the bathtub")(Origin: Grover Norquist).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 5, 2018 4:57:48 PM | 3

The UN credibility went lost very long time ago. They are party of the conflict as well.

Posted by: Pnyx | Jul 5, 2018 4:58:32 PM | 4

Over-counting the numbers of "refugees" will help Israel's propaganda later on. It can then claim "massive" bombing of "civilians" in the small area near Quneitra. (Using whatever figures it wants).

Those that remain will most likely be militants who find that they have got nowhere to go to. (Plus a number of civilians being used as hostages).

Posted by: stonebird | Jul 5, 2018 5:02:02 PM | 5

The whole Daraa governorate was 1 mio people back in 2011. There's no way a quarter of them just packed and left - that's the kind of mass movement that only occurs when, say, ISIS comes to non-Sunni areas. Not to mention there's no way that more than a few tens of thousands ever lived in that Eastern part, which is mostly rocky desert.
Though in this case I wouldn't rule out the greed/corruption aspect: some people might expect to make big bucks by telling the West and UN HQ that there's a ton of refugees and they need way more stuff and money than planned.
If it's really rebels and usual borgist warmongers, then they're as stupid as the British establishment with the latest poison affair. Western people barely give a damn about *5 million* Syrian refugees, they're not going to be bothered by 300K more.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jul 5, 2018 5:25:47 PM | 6

It's almost irrelevant and superfluous to spell this out but...

In the Thoroughly Modern Neo-Liberalised 21st Century, the actual meaning of Small Govt is a slap in the face for the 99% in every Fake Western Democracy.
Why?
Because in a real Democracy The People elect trustworthy individuals to represent the interests of the 99% when legislation is being proposed and considered. In other words The People ARE the Government. So when tricksters talk about Small Government they are declaring that the opinions of the 99% are not only irrelevant, but Surplus to Requirements of a Small Government.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 5, 2018 5:36:42 PM | 7

Sickening propaganda fueled by desperation that Syria is quickly wrapping up its war against foreign terrorists.

However, the SAA is making such rapid progress clearing out the foreign terrorists that it is likely not going to make any difference. The local Syrians are kicking the foreign terrorists out all over the Daara area and begging the SAA to come and secure their towns.

To make it clear how serious Syria and Russia are in securing the entire south of the country from the foreign terrorists that have infested it for so long, there are reports that the Syrian airforce has been taking out fleeing terrorists in Jordan. Looks there will be no regrouping for the terrorists on the Jordan side of the border. Nor will they get to be resupplied by the US regime and then rebranded with some new name from some nitwit intern in some US regime intelligence office.

Also, the pointless attacks by the foreign terrorists on one of the Russian airbases has the Russian airforce in absolute fury mode.

After the ass kicking the Israeli regime got with their last cowardly missile attack on Syria a month or so ago I am seeing SAA sources saying they are just itching for some payback and Syria has the missile defense network obviously working incredibly well along with the mass of the most effective and battle hardened forces just miles away from Syria's Golan Heights.


Posted by: Nerrian | Jul 5, 2018 5:39:55 PM | 8

thanks for the update b.. and thanks for the comments @8 in particular..

@5 stonebird.. that makes sense..there is still no way to justify the numbers, as clueless joe points out..

Posted by: james | Jul 5, 2018 6:12:39 PM | 9

Syria is over. Trump has other things to do. He wants detente at the very least with Russia for his future plans. Trump, Russia, Syria and Nutty seem to have sorted out an arrangement that is acceptable to Syria and Nutty. There has been a bit going on between Kurd's and Syria government lately getting ready for the US move out. After that, its just a matter of cleaning up Idlib and pushing Turkey out, which a little Putin diplomacy will go a long way to achieving. The rest is noise. A lot of it UK noise.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 5, 2018 6:28:12 PM | 10

Thank you, Bernhard, for your (as usual) phenomenally clear, concise, and comprehensive report. This update is much appreciated.

Posted by: Eric Zuesse | Jul 5, 2018 6:42:09 PM | 11

Yes soon the CW attacks will be reported too, in fact the Syrian Governmen has asked refugees to return to Southern Syria, obviously so he can gas them, probably with Novichock, now a very common agent in GB, I wonder when they will find it in Parliament ?
MSM has gotten cow disease,probably from the US.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Jul 5, 2018 6:43:43 PM | 12

The other thing that is happening is the US is now moving on its protected pocket of ISIS.
If they keep going, they clean up ISIS east of the Euphrates a bit before or about the same time Syria clears the ISIS pocket in the south west. US proclaimed mission was just to defeat ISIS and I don't think Trump has changed that. Any other US proclamations about staying, unless uttered by Trump are worthless.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 5, 2018 6:45:10 PM | 13

Just want to say thank you to b for all your reporting on Syria - more than any other site, MoA has been fundamental in allowing me to first begin to make sense of this conflict and furthermore to understand it more deeply.

Posted by: George Lane | Jul 5, 2018 7:19:15 PM | 14

@13 peter... magnier such something similar today here..

Posted by: james | Jul 5, 2018 7:57:27 PM | 15

Thanks b, and as always, for the therapy involved by actually being informed about global happenings.

I'm looking forward to the day the Syrian people can regain their sovereignty, and move on towards a better future.

And also, a pox on the evil empire and their minions..

Posted by: ben | Jul 5, 2018 8:43:27 PM | 16

"Israel Lays Down Red Lines for Postwar Relations With Syria"

From Truthdig:https://www.truthdig.com/articles/israel-lays-down-red-lines-for-postwar-relations-with-syria/

Meeting soon between Russia and Israel. Hope Russia lays down a few "red lines" of their own.

We'll see...

Posted by: ben | Jul 5, 2018 8:57:33 PM | 17

Thanks james. That covered what I had been picking up, plus added to it.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 5, 2018 8:58:11 PM | 18

"... Syrian Government has asked refugees to return to Southern Syria, obviously so he can gas them, probably with Novichock"

No, no, no! Novichok was specifically formulated to scare the gentle folks of southern England, we are talking about artisanal production in very small batches, mixing dreadful ingredients with gentle cosmetics that do not irritate skin etc.* Mass applications require something like barrels of bleach poured with crop dusters.

*Once again, I pondered how Novichok, Wiltshire edition, could be applied. Some cretins thought that the latest victims could use syringes with traces of Novichok that remained from Skripal assassination attempt. There are many problems with that theory. It would make much more sense to use sanitizing napkins. A fake napkin would look precisely like a freebie that you can get on a plane, but instead of alcohol solution it would be soaked with a Novichok laced cream or ointment, so an agent can put on Novichok-proof gloves, tear of the packaging of a fake napkin to gentle smear over a door handle, armrest of a park bench etc., then tear off the packaging of 1-2 real sanitary napkins and clean the gloves, and in the final step, take gloves off.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 5, 2018 9:44:39 PM | 19

I forgot to attribute the quote to Den Lille Abe. As I am at it, I would like to congratulate him for having a government that settled a pipeline dispute with Russia, and as a reward, a key match of the Swedish team in World Cap was scheduled in St. Petersburg, practically, in a driving distance from Stockholm.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 5, 2018 9:49:17 PM | 20

Huh. I could have sworn the number of refugees was in the neighborhood of six million. Oy vey.

Posted by: Nuff Sed | Jul 5, 2018 10:56:03 PM | 21

UN organizations make claims of very high refugee numbers due to recent fighting in Daraa governorate in southwest Syria ...

Jacking up the numbers to the nearest zero perhaps? Where have I heard that one before? Oh no ...

Next the UN will be claiming photographic evidence of crematoria around Saydnaya Prison. Oh shit, we've been through that one before.

Posted by: Jen | Jul 5, 2018 10:57:19 PM | 22

Txs b for the update. Forward SAA! My only concern is a revival of the Novichok scam may mean an upcoming chemical attack false flag by association. Are they stupid enough to try that? Well..
Otherwise, I agree with @13/15/18. Looks like the bell tolls..

Posted by: Lozion | Jul 5, 2018 11:53:21 PM | 23

Excellent! Thank you, Sir.

Posted by: adamski | Jul 6, 2018 1:11:42 AM | 24

@Piotr Berman 20

Thx Piotr, we cross our fingers at the WC, its been a great venue so far, a giant PR bonus to Russia.
Most of us too eager to see an end to hostilities in southern Syria, and the departure (preferably eternal) of the Export version of Takfiri Headchoppers mr.2. The Russian Air force seems to have developed a good antidote to them, but more important is the reconciliation stratagem used by Russian military police, which also is working very well and again was a PR boost to Russian diplomacy.... These pesky Ruskies...:)
Yes indeed Sweden did approve Nordstream 2, in recognition of its importance to EU growth, energy needs and mutual cooperation. It is only Them Lamentable Poles (Tm) that wants expensive US LNG, EU Pays (Tm), they need to have a kick, preferably into the Baltic and while the Baltic states are depopulating faster than the US debt is rising, it is all good, we can lay them out as nature resorts with nude bathing.
In the UK, the situation..look a squirrel! And it is foaming at the mouth!! ....Nothing much to report, still The Walking Dead in charge, toxic loons.....

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Jul 6, 2018 2:57:39 AM | 25

@10 Peter AU 1

That's best case scenario and hopefully it comes to pass. There does finally appear to be light at the end of the tunnel for long suffering Syrians, and the utter abandonment of the Southern Front by FUKUS is likely alarming to the Kurds (or it should be). Hard to say exactly where/when the tide turned against the "new world order" over the past 5 years, but it does seem to have turned.

Posted by: Sad Canuck | Jul 6, 2018 3:58:51 AM | 26

The fastest mig 25 was clocked at mach 3.4 overflying Israel back in the cold war days.
First wave of mig 31's loaded with Kinzhal would be nearly as fast. They could limp back home for engine replacement, and the next wave would come in at a speed that did not damage the engines. US could not attack Russia in Syria. The new breed of US cold war warriors behind Trump are pragmatic.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 6, 2018 4:19:10 AM | 27

This, and other propaganda attacks re: Skripal are just a beard, a cover...they are the shameful response to being thoroughly outclassed by Russia, the SAA, and allies in Syria... The 'Russia Bad' Narrative must be held intact to hide the inevitable victories to come.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jul 6, 2018 4:39:20 AM | 28

Have decided to be optimistic to day !
It seems wonderful new's coming out of Syria with Russia's strong steady hand as back up. With the west behaving like maggots in a piece of meat, I'm hoping that Syria can be turned around, put the war behind it. The refugees could return to there own homes through there own free choice and the people thrive.
We all need to see a tangible viable way forward right now, world wide. As an alternative to the bankrupt business plan of the greedy pigs running the show right now. Well I can dream!! Spread the word all round middle east then down round Africa. They cheated ! all deals are over all bets off, we don't owe you, you owe us kind of style.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 6, 2018 5:09:59 AM | 29

Mark2
Don't get too exited about the last reality. Nut out the new one before its debut.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 6, 2018 5:24:13 AM | 30

Mark2 | Jul 6, 2018 5:09:59 AM | 29

Indeed, dream, but as Peter au1 suggests; caution is the byword of the moment.

Posted by: V | Jul 6, 2018 6:35:39 AM | 31

Peter Au I and v
Hey come on we can do this. And for a bit of motivation ---
'Amazing Russian song Meadowlands '
YouTube!!!

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 6, 2018 7:29:18 AM | 32

Prompted to some extent by DLA's comment apropos the Baltic states and the lamentable Poles, and kind of OT but not really, given the fluid geodynamics in strategic connectedness of the ME, Asia Minor and the Pale, I find it rather startling that so little is being made of the Belarus (de)sovereignty story. In English, only on the (shh) sak+r site that I have noticed (and rather feeble pieces at that), no doubt a few other parts of the alt space. Of course, there is much discussion in Russian language media both in RF and in RoB. It is being widely discussed in B'r.
AL and VP had an inordinately long meeting and AL's remarks thereafter were clearly intended as a very strong hint of the direction of travel and more so the velocity, he not being a person given to vague or throwaway words.
This is being painted as a matter of economics, but that is difficult to swallow and there is clearly a very strong geopolitical dimension; one gets the sense from talk on the ground in B'r that intelligence concerning US cia-neocon subversive operations, combined with nato provocations in the Suwalki, and no doubt much else known to the necessary parties in RF and RoB, are hastening VP's and AL's endeavours at sovereign embrace. One gets the sense of a race against time.

Posted by: Plod | Jul 6, 2018 7:48:09 AM | 33

Mark2
That looked peaceful, but a bit more crap to wade through yet.
Katusha for a bit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cydzolb0eIs

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Jul 6, 2018 8:15:01 AM | 34

Mark2 | Jul 6, 2018 7:29:18 AM | 32
Urging caution, not defeat!
Of course we can...

Posted by: V | Jul 6, 2018 8:42:08 AM | 35

Thanks for that one Peter Au1
Am just on my way to invade Salsbury and Amesbury ! It's a mind set, and an antidote to novachoc.The push back starts here! Syria for the Syrians. V any inspiration music for us?
Incidentally I was trawling deep deep on Twitter sites yesterday following there recommend sites found one right down in Iran ! English speaking, who's site did they recommend?
M O A !!! Warmed my heart ! What we do and say can have effects unimagend. If a butterfly flaps it's wings in a rain forest it can topple a uk government.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 6, 2018 8:50:38 AM | 36

As far as UN numbers on Syria goes:

link

link

Posted by: Gesine Hammerling | Jul 6, 2018 9:01:43 AM | 37

The SAA is due to liberate the Nassib border crossing with Jordan any moment now, probably in the next few hours. The consequences seem to be huge from an economic point of view as trade between Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and beyond opens up again.

Posted by: BG | Jul 6, 2018 9:17:33 AM | 38

I would suspect an alternative explanation. They have simply collected the numbers of refugees which have been in these camps, not those who have newly arrived.

A simple manipulation, one cannot even accuse them of lying, if the actual number of refugees in these camps are accurate, even if they live there already many years. And this is, indeed, what is written in the picture: "Total number of IDPs". Not "newly arrived IDPs".

Posted by: Ilja | Jul 6, 2018 9:39:53 AM | 39

@39 ilja - well, they will have to track those who have gone back home too, and i don't know that they are interested or intent on doing that..

Posted by: james | Jul 6, 2018 11:44:56 AM | 40

Thanks for this report. I have been following the military conflicts in Donensk and Lugansk and then in Syria relying
upon the maps and the cool professional analysis of heroic Cathema on Zaid Fadel's website. I have never been in the
military; yet, I have always been a battle buff and have read many books from Herodotus to Thucydides to Liddell Hart.
Mine is an informed hunch: I think these are the among the very last battles in the long tragic history of human warfare.

Posted by: Guerrero | Jul 6, 2018 12:15:17 PM | 41

For those who don't already follow the main Syria war against foreign terrorist twitter accounts:

The most reliable maps over the past few years:
https://twitter.com/PetoLucem

As close as there is to raw updates from Syria without reading Arabic:
https://twitter.com/Syrian_Uruk
https://twitter.com/Dannymakkisyria
https://twitter.com/Sohayb_Masri1

A good retweet account with a bit of commentary. He gives good bullet point break downs that are mostly lost in the mess of garbage posts on the Syrian Perspective blog.
https://twitter.com/Canthama

A lot of day to day life of Syrian soldiers and units as they clear the foreign terrorists from their country:
https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1

There are others but they will get retweeted by most of the above.

Posted by: Nerrian | Jul 6, 2018 12:24:47 PM | 42

Just a general impression, but it appears that the terrorist propaganda accounts have either stop their activity or greatly reduced their postings.

There is still blatant terrorists propaganda but most of the main accounts are getting very little interactions from general social media users.

The most sickening is the US and UK government officials who are still pumping out pathetic war propaganda. Seeing very little responses and quite a bit of outright pushback against the propaganda but it is clear that the US and UK governments are still 99 percent pushing for support of the foreign terrorists.

Posted by: Nerrian | Jul 6, 2018 12:30:04 PM | 43

Guerrero says:

I think these are the among the very last battles in the long tragic history of human warfare

wow, what a visionary statement! for sure the primitiveness of all this violence is getting more conspicuous in this 21st century…

but we're still systemically geared for more.

Posted by: john | Jul 6, 2018 12:51:08 PM | 44

John
It's over go home to your family!

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 6, 2018 1:01:53 PM | 45

Mark2

i am at home with my family, for almost 30 years now. what's over?

Posted by: john | Jul 6, 2018 1:31:39 PM | 46

@36 Mark2

"Am just on my way to invade Salsbury and Amesbury !... V any inspiration music for us?

How can it be anything other than Solsbury Hill by Peter Gabriel"?

Posted by: xLemming | Jul 6, 2018 1:41:54 PM | 47

xLemming @ 47
Ha ha yes I looove that one . I have stood on that very hill overlooking batheaston !
Off topic there.
Has the border crossing between Jordan and Syria fallen yet? I'm staying up !
Canned Heat lets work together--- you tube !

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 6, 2018 1:52:07 PM | 48

UNATO self-confirmation effect: If the UNATO pseudo-consensus can convince itself that it's real, then that automatically makes it so.

Posted by: blues | Jul 6, 2018 2:31:56 PM | 49

The Syrian army has taken control of the Nassib-Jaber border crossing to Jordan and all areas east and north of it. The M5 highway might be reopened soon.

The next step is to isolate the southern part of Douma city by moving westwards along the border. At the speed at which the SAA proceeds this will likely have happened by tomorrow evening.

During the last two weeks the SAA reduced a 150 km frontline to some 10 km. This will free many more troops who become available for other purposes.

The Russian reconciliation team is busy convincing several groups in the area towards the Golan heights to give. They will likely take the chance. Only the IS and al-Qaeda hardliners will be left to fight to death.

Posted by: b | Jul 6, 2018 4:17:34 PM | 50

Thank you 'b' @ 50
A marvellous contrast between the truth/reality compared to the western spin, falsity and slurs regarding Syrian govenment and Russia ! All should take notice !!! I know who's credibility rating is on junk status !

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 6, 2018 4:51:58 PM | 51

USA=ISIS
Jews=Muslim terrorists

Posted by: Art Best | Jul 6, 2018 5:53:50 PM | 52

Even if some info is not quite accurate, basically you're right. The numbers up to 300.000 (and today almost to 400.000 - as the UN representative from Geneva announced ) are for sure double or at least triple than the real figures.
This is related to two things
- Jordan refusal to open the border so this guy from UN(Amman Office) Mohammad Hawari tried to put pressure to Jordanian government to open border. As Naseeb border crossing has fallen in Assad hands, Jordanian authorities had rushed to announce that sending back the sirians is a priority
- US plans to redraw from UNHCR [Speculation or fact, I have no idea!] But it seems related and big numbers help to change decisions
the real number could be between 60.000 to 120.000 and those number includes also the "refugees" from government areas

Posted by: AnonImus | Jul 6, 2018 6:28:31 PM | 53

Palss halp us and whay look in egypt refugas l also in egypt UNHCR l am in egypt one yars but stall asumme sekar palss l need your halp

Posted by: Samson zewedu | Jul 7, 2018 10:19:04 AM | 54

Samson zewedu @ 54
Do you have a contact number

Posted by: Mark2 | Jul 7, 2018 11:35:35 AM | 55

UNHCR (as well as some other UN' institutions) is a useful tool for Western elites to pursue the policies that they need.
Maria Khodynskaya-Golenischeva, an acting Russian diplomat (involved in "Syrian dossier" from its very beginning) well wrote about it in her book. One might check it out.
Here's how she characterized this structure:

"Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) — the most odious and engaged UN organization, which in fact undisguisedly, in alliance with Western «human rights» NGOs serving the foreign policy interests of Western countries".
-

The UN must stop to distribute such alarming numbers that evidently can not be backed up at all. Otherwise its credibility and long term efficiency will be severely damaged.

Oh, i'm afraid there's nothing left that could be 'severely damaged'. I mean, the UN' credibility? Oh, c'mon. What 'credibility'?
The UN has been long time seriously discredited. And this is their own fault.
Maybe it will be an exaggeration in some sense, but in Syrian conflict the UN is, in fact, on terrorist side. No joke.

Or, just read what Antonio Guterres said after the US aggressor (in fact, FUKUS) illegally attacked Syria second time (April 2018, first time in April 2017). The UN Secretary General... called for compliance with the UN Charter. Wow.
No strong protest to the criminal actions of the United States, no special note demanding an end to the aggression, no special statement condemning the aggression, no special sanctions against the US delegation to the UN... Nothing. Just a formal call to comply with the UN Charter.
Oh, i love it.

There's a comedy with J.Carrey "Dumb and Dumber". In our case this is "Sissy and sissier" - a good comedy farce about weakness and spinelessness of the top international officials/politicians. And a wildest form of hypocrisy, of course.

Hmm... Just wondering, if Russia would launch about 100 "Kalibr" missiles on Ukraine to "teach a good lesson" a Nazi Poroshenko regime, the UN Secretary General would express just a "formal regret" too? Sure there would be no ultra-hysteria worldwide, no hard condemnation and no bunch of new sanctions against Russia. Yep.

Posted by: alaff | Jul 9, 2018 6:34:03 AM | 56

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