April 15, 2018
The MoA Week In Review And Open Thread 2018-17
Last week was dominated by the run-up to the U.S. attack on Syria:
There is a very large discrepancy between the Russian Ministry of Defense report of strike and the description in the Pentagon briefing on the strike. According to the Pentagon only three places related to non-existing Syrian chemical weapons were targeted:
This combined military strike was directed against three distinct Syrian chemical weapons program targets.
In summary, in a powerful show of allied unity, we deployed 105 weapons against three targets.
It does not make any sense to send 35 cruise missiles against each of those not hardened, not defended targets like the now destroyed Barzeh research center which was a small two story building complex (pic of destruction) and had been declared free of chemical weapons and weapon research by the OPCW. Why would the U.S. military use such a high number of precision weapons against only three targets? This is extremely unusual and does not make sense at all.
The Russians, as well as other sources on the ground, report in detail of many more targets:
Four missiles targeted the Damascus International Airport; 12 missiles – the Al-Dumayr airdrome, all the missiles have been shot down.
18 missiles targeted the Blai airdrome, all the missiles shot down.
12 missiles targeted the Shayrat air base, all the missiles shot down. Air bases were not affected by the strike.
Five out of nine missiles were shot down targeting the unoccupied Mazzeh airdrome.
Thirteen out of sixteen missiles were shot down targeting the Homs airdrome. There are no heavy destructions.
In total 30 missiles targeted facilities near Barzah and Jaramana. Seven of them have been shot down.
At least six airports were targeted according to the Russian report. The Pentagon reports no strike on Syrian airports but claims to have launched a way too high number of cruise missiles for each of the claimed three target. The Syrian opposition outlet SOHR reports of eight targets and says that at least 65 of the cruise missiles were downed by the Syrian air defenses. The Russians say 71 were shot down while the Pentagon says none of its cruise missiles were hit.
At least three other sources confirm the Russian version of events. The Pentagon is lying. The attack was a U.S. attempt to disable the Syrian air force by destroying its airports. It failed and the Pentagon is hiding that failure. Will the U.S. media report this discrepancy?
Not unrelated to the strike on Syria is the Skripal case where the mysteries continue to pile up.
Use the comments as open thread ...
Posted by b on April 15, 2018 at 10:42 AM | Permalink
@92Laguerre:More sanctions tomorrow, a completely ineffective UN and a promise by the incoming Secretary of State to not let Russia succeed in any sphere tells me that yes, Russia needs to do something. Nothing militarily speaking, but something. If not, soon the only option will be a military one.
Posted by: Woogs | Apr 15, 2018 5:43:34 PM | 101
@ Laguerre 92
there's absolutely no need for Russia to do anything
Yes, it's important that US targets like Russia stay principled and legal, and not petty and churlish. That's what impresses people and especially other governments who favor order over disorder. FM Lavrov is especially strong in that department.
Iran serves as an outstanding example of a country which has been a US target for most of the last fifty years yet has remained principled and has not only persevered but has benefited. Iran said years ago that the US could not be trusted but they would join a treaty anyhow, to "curb their nuclear ambitions" in silly US terminology. And look how that is turning out. I look for North Korea to be similar despite all the US bluster, especially that coming from the new US SecState Pompeo who has recently enjoyed his news of hundreds of dead Russians. This sort of bad attitude is not one to be copied in a world we expect to be orderly.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 15, 2018 5:52:30 PM | 102
Ukraine won't "erupt in a full-scale war". That chapter is over. It's a country that is fast withering away in every regard - and is on course to being a land of dying old people with a total of 16 million in population by 2050. There are no resources there for even a limited offensive campaign. Increased skirmishes and belligerent jawboning is all that Kiev is good for. Even the IMF is staying clear of this money-losing opportunity.
What's far more likely is that within 3-5 years we'll see Odessa, Kherson, Zaporozhye and Nikolayev People's Republics emerging there, while in the west Poland, Romania and Hungary will get emboldened enough to present their land claims on Ukraine's Stalinist territorial additions.
Posted by: telescope | Apr 15, 2018 5:52:41 PM | 103
Meanwhile in Syria:
The rebels in the eastern Qalamoun region of Damascus have agreed to turn in their heavy weapons and to leave this area after a successful round of talks with the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) and Russian Reconciliation Centre.
According to the agreement, the rebel forces in the key town of Dumayr will begin leaving for northern Syria in the 48 hours.
The remaining rebels in the nearby towns of Al-Nassiriyah, Rahebah, and Jayroud are negotiating with the government currenty, but they are expected to accept the agreement as well.
The rebel factions currently present in this part of the Qalamoun Mountains are the following: Ahmad Al-‘Abdo Brigade and and Jaysh Thuwar Al-Sham of the Free Syrian Army (FSA).
No doubt there'll be more talk of sieges and ethnic cleansing from the western MSM but with the imminent attack by the SAA on ISIS and other rebels in Yarmouk, Damascus is beginning to look securely under the control of the SAG/SAA and as the idiots in Washington/London/Paris don't understand, whoever controls Damascus controls Syria. How things have changed since the Harasta Army vehicle depot came under attack a few weeks ago.
Posted by: Ghost Ship | Apr 15, 2018 5:55:07 PM | 104
Trump is the Republican Obama. The follow the same model of government: faux populist leader dogged by crazy critics that want to derail a righteous agenda.
Obamabots gave similar excuses. Real populists simply don’t get have a chance of being elected in US money-driven elections.
Why was there only two populists running for President in 2016?
Sanders, Hillay’s sheepdog, destroyed the movement that would been the best check on the establishment and the rush to war. That movement was never going to be allowed to take root. Trump, a friend of the Clinton’s was probably meant to prevail.
Rome had bread and circuses. We’ve got crumbs and tweets.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 15, 2018 5:57:58 PM | 105
an important thing that no one seems to be noticing or remarking upon is the split in the western powers....
if the russians are to be believed, France did not fire any missiles, though I seem to recall from the US Ministry of Peace and Propaganda that supposedly the French destroyer launched some 6-9 missiles or something...
Italy and Germany did not participate, nor Canada, which makes me wonder, why? I think that mainland europe knows where the future is, and it ain't with the US, a failing power, it's with the One Belt One Road designs by china which will connect Europe through Russia, Turkey and the central asian nations to China and the far East.
the Brits are US poodles to the end, they will walk over the cliff into nuke war with the US if the Empire demands it, but the others seem to be hesitating or are not on board. There are simply too many historical, economic and future connections with Russia and China et. al. to be had by mainland Europe. in spite of the EU going along with many sanctions....now. the future will be different in the long run.
also of note is that the Brits and the US have been and are the world's main naval powers for over 250 years, and the One Belt is about naval (through the northern Arctic route, dominated by russia) but most importantly land transport/connection of all the EurAsian landmass...
Posted by: michaelj72 | Apr 15, 2018 5:58:46 PM | 106
Syrians are gearing for National Day celebrations on April 17 commemorating the evacuation of the last French soldier and Syria's proclamation of full independence and the end of the French mandate of Syria on 17 April 1946. This will be especially noteworthy this year given the recent display of colonial power frustration.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 15, 2018 6:02:15 PM | 107
Serious suggestion for you
read Gorbachev, His Life and Times
by William Taubman
Taubman is prof at Amherst
also wrote "Nikita Khruschev"
which won a Pulitzer
Also excellent is Stephen F Cohen,
Failed Crusade: America and the Tragedy of Post-Communist Russia
In USA people say "everyone is entitled to an opinion", so maybe you are entitled to your view.
In England, they say "you are not qualified to have an opinion", and maybe they are right about your views on Gorbachev, because I do not believe you have informed yourself about the Gorbachev era.
Please read these books and then tell us if your view is influenced by what they say.
I found all of them free online, do you know where/how to look for them? Any decent library will have them.
Posted by: mauisurfer | Apr 15, 2018 6:02:21 PM | 108
Thanks for the reference however I have read both Taubman and Cohen. I would regard that I fall somewhere in the middle; I have an opinion that I'm quite willing to take responsibility for and yet I am not qualified. If you mean, do I have a degree, published work, personal access to Gorbachev. Yet, I read very widely, can think for myself, don't have a "reputation" to uphold and am quite comfortable being proven wrong.
Primarily "you are not qualified to have an opinion" is simply the polite English way of saying "shut up and don't question your betters. Know your place."
Posted by: Bakerpete | Apr 15, 2018 6:15:57 PM | 109
Farm Ecologist @ 35:
If you live in the US, you can try Jeff Rense's website (www.rense.com) and Zero Hedge (www.zerohedge.com). Rense.com aggregates news from many different sites (including most recently RT.com, Sputnik and PressTV) and blogs (Paul Craig Roberts, Ron Paul), many of them quite dubious (Tomato Bubble). Zero Hedge is mainly a financial news blog with a libertarian / free market bias that aggregates articles from other sites including MoA.
You can try Off-Guardian (www.off-guardian.org) and 21stCenturyWire (www.21stcenturywire.com) as well.
Posted by: Jen | Apr 15, 2018 6:17:50 PM | 110
The guy who ghostwrote Art of the Deal felt guilty and confessed his sins in a New Yorker piece during the campaign (he didn't feel bad enough to give the money back). I found it entertaining and it revealed a bit about Thump.
New Yorker interview with Thump's ghostwriter from June 2016)
Thump was a regular feature of the tabloid newspapers for three decades before his election. Merely by virtue of living in New York and reading the papers during that time, Thump's personality and behavior were on full display, and his character (he has none) and principles (he has one - his own self aggrandizement) have long been readily evident. His habits of saying anything, lying constantly, contradicting himself frequently, and regularly breaking contracts and screwing over business associates were repeatedly on public display. Believe me, I had no interest in this person, but I couldn't avoid learning all about him unless I ceased to consume news (which, ironically, I have eliminated about 98% of my prior rate of MSM reading and viewing in recent years).
New Yorkers knew. If we had an actual news media and an actual democratic electoral process featuring a true and rational dissemination and processing of relevant information during a campaign season, the rest of the country would've known.
Knowing this clown as I do certainly does not make him predictable, as his nature is unpredictability. Not due to craft, or 4th dimensional chess acumen, but due to dishonesty, lack of character, and utter lack of principle save the principle of Me. He is many things, but unique ain't one of them, particularly among the political leadership class.
(@Ben 75 above) Government we deserve infuckingdeed.
Posted by: howard in nyc | Apr 15, 2018 6:27:14 PM | 111
While reading Vanessa Beeley's blog, I saw mentioned in the comments forum a new fake Syrian humanitarian organisation called Violet Syria. As the name suggests, its "members" wear violet and purple-coloured uniforms. These "aid workers" were spotted assisting with evacuations of jihadis and their families from East Ghouta recently.
Here is a link to Violet Syria's website:
VS's partners include International Rescue Committee (President: David Miliband, former UK Foreign Secretary), the Qatari Red Crescent, the Asfari Foundation and Danish Muslim Aid.
Posted by: Jen | Apr 15, 2018 6:27:27 PM | 112
Farm Ecologist @ 35:
Unfortunately if you want a good cross section of information you'll need to do the legwork yourself and collate the data in your head. Here are some of the sites I visit regularly; Zerohedge, Automatic Earth, Strike The Root, Strategic-Culture, Sputnik International, Global Times, Russia Insider, Unz Review, New Eastern Outlook, Dispatches form the Asylum, Vineyard of the Saker, Viable Opposition, etc.
Each has it's own focus and bias.
Posted by: Bakerpete | Apr 15, 2018 6:31:48 PM | 113
So, if I try to deconstruct what just happened to its simplest elements:
-SAAD had a 69% kill ratio on 103 missiles fired (71 downed).
- No Russian systems fired.
-Syria is rumored to possess up to 40 Pantsir S1 launchers that may have been used friday.
-Now talk is RU may deploy newer (S-300VM Antey-2500) batteries to bolster SAAD capabilities.
-Ghouta has fallen leaving too few boots on the ground to exploit any successful aerial offensives.
-Such an offensive would take a massive multi-nation sustained campaign to degrade SY air defenses with probable RU casualties, the reddest of all lines with catastrophic consequences.
Therefore, I cant see how the US can even strike again with effective results if more CW attacks are staged..
Posted by: Lozion | Apr 15, 2018 6:40:20 PM | 114
I'm reading more and more that its the Russian Electronic Warfare that's the clincher.
See, for example: https://southfront.org/pentagon-is-concerned-about-results-of-syria-strike-prepares-to-launch-internal-probe-sources/
So, a 1000 missile strike is just as vulnerable, maybe more so.
The defeat of a 1000 missile strike (assuming Russia didn't destroy the launchers in the early stages) would effectively win WW3 for Russia.
You can bet the farm they are prepared for such a strike.
I echo what another poster said that the guys manning those Pantsir units must have balls of steel.
Posted by: cdvision | Apr 15, 2018 6:44:24 PM | 116
@Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 15, 2018 5:42:38 PM | 100
But, why is that you concede such credibility to this commenter who is developing the most oustanding theories, even when claiming he is not a military man?... I do not blame you, since he sounds so self-assured, even when claiming that soviet leadership were psychopats, with all his cuajo, and he remains so self-assured as before, even when, here this is me who am pretty sure, the psychiatrist he is not either....
After reading that unsubstantiated assertion, more proper of a totally brainwashed American than of the smart-ass he pretends to be, I will be considering everything he writes from now on with a grain of salt....
Sliding in such a way finish with any intended analyst, as happens to The Saker, with his usual grudges against everything which could sound soviet or his rancid grudges against everything which could sound catholic.....
Absolute never exist on the face of Earth, nobody has the exclusive of anything, neither races, countries, nor religions....Continue looking for the white guys in white hats and black guys in black hats...
Posted by: From the resistance trench with love | Apr 15, 2018 6:46:06 PM | 117
Trump lies at all times, about both sides of an issue...is impossible to tell where he stands by that...
The trick to Trumpty Dumpty is to ignore EVERYTHING he says...and only watch what he does...
Increased MIC budget
hired Pompeo, bolt-on, and haspel
fired the missiles
USS TRUMAN group is inbound
big eyes and big ears for now...
am hoping the syrians and russians have all the evidence and possibly some prisoners to parade thru the UNSC and shove it in the Wests face...
Posted by: oldenyoung | Apr 15, 2018 7:03:18 PM | 118
wonder if Russia could retaliate against US by arming Taliban.now engaged in direct combat with US troops.
Posted by: Ragheb | Apr 15, 2018 7:03:50 PM | 119
Thanks, Jen and Bakerpete.
I am familiar with some of these sites and will be sure to have a look at the ones previously unknown to me. I totally agree that remaining well-informed informed requires ongoing effort.
The impetus for my request was to find a way to get a brief overview of current international events before I start my "real" job each day. Thanks to the helpful suggestions of MoA readers I am confident that this can be done.
Posted by: farm ecologist | Apr 15, 2018 7:05:25 PM | 120
Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 15, 2018 6:02:15 PM | 107
re Syrian National Day on April 17th.
The US may have planned on that day being a mockery, didn't work. But then again, the US flotilla with its 1000 missiles arrives on May 14th.
Russia needs to get some container ships in play, fast.
Posted by: frances | Apr 15, 2018 7:05:54 PM | 121
From the resistance
I didn’t concede anything. In fact my comment essentially points out his mistaken expectation.
PavewayIV has made valuable contributions to our discussion. No one gets it right all the time.
Your comment strikes me as an attempt to derail the discussion via personal attacks.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 15, 2018 7:07:13 PM | 122
Therefore, I cant see how the US can even strike again with effective results if more CW attacks are staged..
Posted by: Lozion | Apr 15, 2018 6:40:20 PM | 114
The answer to how the US&Co can strike is: volume. If they can bring more missiles to bear than Syria has in place then they will be able to overwhelm them, that includes Russia's systems UNLESS Russia takes the battle to them and hits the ships, then all hell will break lose which given the people involved may be what they want. Remember Russia announced their new weaponry but they don't have them in production in large measure. If you were going to attack them with any chance of winning you have to do so sooner than later. The US is stupid enough and desperate enough to chance it IMO.
Posted by: frances | Apr 15, 2018 7:16:34 PM | 123
Posted by: cdvision | Apr 15, 2018 6:44:24 PM | 116
Fantastic news, thank you, it negates my fears of conventional Syrian and Russian ground weaponry being overwhelmed mentioned in my earlier post (123).
Posted by: frances | Apr 15, 2018 7:22:04 PM | 124
What is Russia's red line? Clearly, unprovoked cruise missile attacks on a country they purportedly militarily support and are deeply engaged in does not cross their red line.
Posted by: ab initio | Apr 15, 2018 7:42:31 PM | 125
It has been Pentagon policy sense very early in the Cold War - and even during times when they were arguing between themselves - that war with Russia would mean war with China and vice versa, that policy is unchanged. Along with the underlying policy of "Global full spectrum domination." These policies have not changed for decades ad are not about to change now.
Posted by: Babyl-on | Apr 15, 2018 8:02:13 PM | 126
@ J Swift, 14
Good post but I have 1 correction. S400s were not used. Syria has no S300s or S400s. Hope they get some S300s soon. Russia didn't engage except for some jamming.
Posted by: Anti_republocrat | Apr 15, 2018 8:05:40 PM | 127
Re Russian EW during the strike.
As Paveway points out, this limited strike may be a recon of Syria/Russia defenses. The more Russia uses its EW, the more information US has on the system.
this is the first time US missiles have gone against Pantsir systems. Most missiles seem to have been taken out close to their targets. Syria has around 40 Pantsir units and also some BUK systems Russia would have been monitoring inbound missiles giving the short range units plenty of warning. If its surveillance aircraft was in the, it would have been tracking Tomahawks from a good distance out even if they were following the terrain.
I am not sure about other missiles used but tomahawks are slow and even if maneuvering are an easy kill for Pantsir.
The undefended targets were hit multiple times so no electronic interference with those missiles guidance system.
I doubt Russia gave the US a chance to look at their EW during this strike.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Apr 15, 2018 8:23:41 PM | 128
@ Bakerpete | Apr 15, 2018 11:36:07 AM | 12
A terrible essay. Nearly half of it regurgitates a propagandized, Hollywoodized narrative; then chokes up the ludicrous "Judeo-Christian" nonsensical conjunction, and proceeds to draw the inevitable wrong conclusion.
It is precisely because the Allies have not summoned the character to confront the wars in Europe with hard, cold honesty; therefore never been held to account for their numerous crimes against humanity and war crimes, that they continue to think of themselves as the god-ordained good guys.
Posted by: Croesus | Apr 15, 2018 8:25:54 PM | 129
@ Ghost Ship 96
Thanks for the correction.
Posted by: Paul | Apr 15, 2018 8:34:43 PM | 130
Peter AU 1 @128
You may be right, but I have a different take.
I don't think this was just a test. I think it was a compromise strike because Mattis and Dunford wouldn't go any further. And reportedly there was a fourth wave which was cancelled once the Russian jets scrambled.
The electronics won it - either EW and/or the targeting radar of the S400 fed to the Pantsir units - the US have stated they were lit up by the S400. I agree, though, that Russia has not fully shown its hand.
I increasingly doubt the US will risk the fabled "1000 missile strike" as defeat would cede WW3 to Russia. But we are dealing with America, here, and they seem to have lost the plot.
Posted by: cdvision | Apr 15, 2018 8:36:08 PM | 131
@ Woogs 87
Good question. Carrot and stick but with the Murcans at least (if not all Euros) the time for carrots may have passed.
Posted by: Paul | Apr 15, 2018 8:37:49 PM | 132
PS I can't help repeating myself,apologies, but the more I contemplate being a soldier in a Pantsir unit, the more it confirms those guys have balls of steel.
Posted by: cdvision | Apr 15, 2018 8:41:05 PM | 133
@8 "1. Saying that the Congress has the power to do something doesn't mean that the president can't do the same thing."
That argument would have some merit if the "Powers of the President" were not also defined in the Constitution.
But the "Power" of both the Congress and the President are indeed defined in the Constitution, and nowhere in there does the Constitution say "Congress can declare war... oh, yeah, and so can the President...so pull straws for it, dudes".
@* "2. A brief attack upon another country doesn't rise to the level of a war, and obviously Trump did not declare war on Syria."
IMHO you are on much firmer ground with this argument.
But note that this argument entirely relies upon the country the President orders attacked not fighting back.
One day a country is going to shout "I've had enough of this shit!" and go on the counter-attack.
The only question is whether this is going to be Russia or China. Or maybe both.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Apr 15, 2018 8:47:29 PM | 135
there was another poster about a week ago that pointed this violetsyria group out.. he was from holland as i recall and lamenting the fact his own gov't was funding the organization... thanks for pointing it out again.. sounds like another variation on the white helmets - interventionist supported propaganda, masquerading as some benevolent group...
@122 jr.. that was how i read that too fwiw..
@128 peter - your last line.. hard to know...
Posted by: james | Apr 15, 2018 9:21:53 PM | 136
From editorial in today's Global Times, semi-official voice of the Chinese politburo:
"However, the stronger a country is, the greater the responsibility it has to maintain world peace and order. The military actions of the US and its allies have breached the framework of the United Nations and violated the foundation of modern international relations. If the will of Washington and the West represents the will of all mankind and they can punish whoever they want, why do we need the UN, or international law?
Without UN authorization, the US, UK and France behaved like rogues. No matter how touching the excuses they find for themselves, they cannot change the fact that they were lynching Syria without due evidence."
More of this please in the UNSC chambers please. Starting tomorrow...?
Posted by: Paul | Apr 15, 2018 9:27:37 PM | 137
It was on the radar and sorted. Forget the numbers now but possibly ten Russian contractors killed plus some local forces. Perhaps 20 or so all up.
Pompeo's A prerequisite for being approved by the senate is announcing a hatred for Russia and Iran.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Apr 15, 2018 9:37:02 PM | 139
I believe the EW and Radars the Russians have are of such a design as they can be carouslled to give off SIGINT profiles that change. How else after all these years no one has cracked the S 300 system? Much less the S 400s?
The state of confidence Putin, Shoigu and the General Staff have in their systems would be delusional if they were not scientifically certain that the enemy cannot crack them.
Clearly Trump would have been fine with an attack that destroyed Damascus and the Syrian government, the Presidential Palace and Assad and his family. And if the Lattakia and Tartous bases were destroyed and a thousand Russians killed, that would be fine with everyone in the US government.
They brag on killing Wagner contractors who had no air cover and were massacred in the open desert.
So, if the mission had a velcroed package to do it all or not, depending on cracking the defenses, it would have happened Friday night.
The US and allies had 1000 missiles and as many bombs within one hour to use to back up what probably was 500 missiles in close.
You can think otherwise, but impenetrable defenses made the "deal" with the Russians work. The Americans were scared by the Russian warnings and did what they had to do. If they could have broken through the electronic barriers, if they weren't losing so many missiles, they might have gone for a regime kill and devastation to the Russian bases. These are people who would nuke anyone.
After all, the Russians scrambled jets for some reason, and made certain the defenses worked. (Probably manned many of them).
Losing a ship or two would be a great exchange in order to destroy Syria, end Russian presence there, break the Shia Crescent and regain mastery over the MENA. They would be on their way to destroying Russian gas dominance in Europe.
And Russia would be hated by Americans for killing hundreds of US sailors on the ships.
It wouldn't end the world. It would end Russia.
"Go for it", would be Trump and Bolton, if that was part of a two part operation.
Psychopathy is crystal clear.
Ukraine will have to suffice, next.
There is always time for another Chemical False Flag in Syria and the Ukraine is the best place to ruin the World Cup.
Posted by: Red Ryder | Apr 15, 2018 10:01:38 PM | 140
Red @ 140
And clearly the soldiers manning those units, which are prime targets, watching incoming missiles minutes or seconds away, have supreme confidence in their kit.
Posted by: cdvision | Apr 15, 2018 10:20:51 PM | 141
On Sunday Putin talked with the president of Iran, Hassan Ruhani as reported in this short posting
MOSCOW, April 15 (Xinhua) -- Further actions violating the U.N. charter such as the recent U.S.-led strikes on Syria will result in chaos in international relations, Russian President Vladimir Putin told his Iranian counterpart Hassan Ruhani over phone on Sunday.
The two leaders condemned Saturday's airstrikes by the United States and its allies on Syria and agreed that it would hinder the process of a political settlement in the war-torn country, according to a Kremlin statement.
"It was stated that this illegal action seriously damages the prospects for a political settlement in Syria. Putin in particular stressed that if such actions, carried out in violation of the U.N. Charter, continue, it will inevitably lead to chaos in international relations," the statement read.
The United States, together with Britain and France, launched missile strikes on Syria on Saturday, saying that it was in response to an alleged chemical weapon attack by the Syrian military. The Syrian government has categorically denied the accusation.
The United Nations Security Council on the same day held an emergency meeting over the missile attack at Russia's request but failed to approve a resolution condemning the bombardment.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 15, 2018 10:23:52 PM | 142
Was reading an analysis in The Guardian just before the strikes regarding a scenario, what can 'we' in the west do? In that article it was assumed that the Syrian Air force would be the target all along as they were delivering the chemical weapons. However that analysis concluded in the end that it would be old Syrian aircraft protected by Russian SAMs and the Russians would just replace them soon enough anyway.
It left the reader to 'obviously conclude' this is all pointless, Russia is the problem, and and really getting in the way of regime change things. As many are saying here I'll go with the prediction they'll want to take out Syrian Air Defenses or at least have another crack at them soon.
Posted by: Gravatomic | Apr 15, 2018 10:28:46 PM | 143
@ Jackrabbit 105
Trump is the Republican Obama.
I disagree. Trump was an outsider, Obama was the establishment agent who was adept in appearing as "hope & change." It was BS. Obama was a machine candidate who had no beliefs, no character, a tool of the DNC.
I think a better analogy (all such being imperfect) would be to compare Trump to Carter, both true outsiders. Carter had (and has) character but his party resisted him. Senators Jackson and Byrd, and later Kennedy, fought him at every turn. He got nothing he wanted, including a second term.
Trump is faring better, but only because he is giving in to the warmongers, as Carter didn't. (Okay he wasn't perfect.) Trump also got his tax bill passed, whereas Carter failed at everything thanks to his party -- not the case with the Repubs currently. Now in a different time Trump has changed and become anti-Russia and pro-war. A total loss in foreign policy for those who supported him.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 15, 2018 10:51:22 PM | 144
Pompeo has what we call (called) a military mind, which is difficult to understand but is still prevalent.
In essence: We wear (wore, in Pompeo's case) the uniform but we hate war. We do crave the promotions and medals and recognition that come from it, and openly brag about the killing of civilians and military that come of it (as Pompeo did). We hate everyone who disagrees with us, because they are ignorant civilians, and hope that you thank us for our service and don't spit on us, but please understand that we hate war. Understand?
Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 15, 2018 11:02:11 PM | 145
Rostislav Ishchenko offers a sobering historical take from the Russian side:
"They can’t allow themselves to surrender. They need to win against Russia (too strong for them in the military domain) without direct military operations. Victory must be reached in a political way. If the old type of provocations ceased to affect allies, and they don’t wish to unconditionally support the American position, then it means that there is a need for a new provocation. Allies don’t want to believe the movies about the “White Helmets”, but they nevertheless believed the Malaysian “Boeing” at the time. It means that if a provocation is staged with hundreds or thousands of corpses – tens of thousands is even better, then allies won’t dare to suspect the US. After all, it is clear that only “dictatorial Russia” could do such things. And it will be again possible to exasperate Europe with the introduction of economic sanctions again.
But if Europe (at least Germany) resists under pressure and will insist on presenting proof or if sanctions again won’t give the due effect, then war will become inevitable. And all of this will be decided in the next one and a half years."
Posted by: WJ | Apr 15, 2018 11:06:40 PM | 146
Can someone please explain why Pompeo and U.S. soldiers in Syria are claiming to have killed hundreds of Russians in Syria (see vids at my 138) and there is nothing mentioned on here, or on other sites or in the Russian media??? This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
One more thing to the person(s)comparing Trump in any way to Jimmy Carter -- you insult the decent and principled man that Jimmy Carter is. Trump is a Zionist quisling, he was a Zionist quisling from day one; only many of you were to blind to see it.
Trump is working on more sanctions against Russia. Macron is boasting that he convinced Trump not to get U.S. out of Syria and there are a bunch of other steps he's taken not to mention putting Pompeo at State and Bolton at NSA that demonstrate to what point Trump is a Zionist quisling!
Posted by: Circe | Apr 15, 2018 11:15:33 PM | 147
@ Anti_republocrat 127 RE: S400s
I was intentionally being a bit of a smart ass. Kept hearing idiots saying Russia should have used their S-400s against these cruise missiles. A, this would be stupid overkill, might as well use them for bird hunting; and B, why in the hell would Russia want to deplete its limited stock of S-400s and disclose capabilities instead of reserving them for important targets. My point was that just by being there, and the fear and respect they hold in the West, did a perfect job of keeping iFUKUS aircraft from even approaching Syrian airspace--hence a 100% effectiveness for their job assignment.
Posted by: J Swift | Apr 15, 2018 11:23:21 PM | 148
The four pillars of the National Security Strategy:
1. Protect the American people, the homeland, and the American way of life
2. Promote American prosperity
3. Preserve peace through strength
4. Advance American influence
1. The US goal is to defeat ISIS, and Syria might keep us from that. So we zap Syria to protect American people.
2. Increased arms sales to Saudi is money in the bank, and as part of the bargain KSA will help the US in Syria.
3. Strength is peace, and war is peace. Destroying buildings in Syria shows what we can do. (Also those cities full of people the US flattened but let's not talk about that).
4. Taking out those three Syrian buildings with a hundred rockets -- how about that to advance American influence? Cool, huh? Shows what we can do. Building demolition.
More advancement, as my guy (not) leroy at Breaking Defense commented, with ten likes:
"The actual strike wasn't the big prize. Confronting Putin after the intensity of Russian threats and kicking dirt in his face was! Believe me, the entire world took notice."
Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 15, 2018 11:41:59 PM | 150
Zerohedge has an article on the Syria Campaign , a jihadi supporting umbrella organization based in London funded by the likes of Ayman Asfari. The intertwining of London banking, wealthy expats looking to rule a new kingdom, and state sponsored regime change.
Posted by: the pessimist | Apr 15, 2018 11:48:22 PM | 151
@140 Ukraine? I don't know.. maybe
I'm thinking that Venezuela might be targeted
Posted by: aaaa | Apr 15, 2018 11:49:55 PM | 152
I'm thinking that Venezuela might be targeted
Venezuela has been a potential US target for at least fifty years. The problem is that when a country is assaulted by the US the citizens if that country, no matter what their affiliation is, unite in opposition.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 16, 2018 12:00:09 AM | 153
Anyone see what Nikki Haley said at Duke university April 6?
On Russia: "We work with them when we need to and we slap them when we need to".
There's video of it.
Posted by: Woogs | Apr 16, 2018 12:09:53 AM | 154
Abstract from a recent Council on Foreign Relations piece on Venezuela:
"President Nicolas Maduro’s efforts to consolidate power amid a deepening economic and humanitarian crisis have drawn widespread international condemnation."
Maduro strikes me as the kind of guy who would gas his own people. Just saying.
Inconvenient fact buried deep in CFR piece:
Chavez remained popular among the country’s poor throughout his presidency, expanding social services including food and housing subsidies, health care, and educational programs. The country’s poverty rate fell from roughly 50 percent in 1998, the year before he was elected, to 30 percent in 2012, the year before his death.
Maduro, who narrowly won the presidency in 2013, pledged to continue his former boss’s socialist revolution.
Posted by: WJ | Apr 16, 2018 12:25:22 AM | 155
@111 Then Hillary Clinton would have won and World War Three would have started sooner.
Posted by: MusicalE | Apr 16, 2018 12:33:20 AM | 156
Neither Russia, China or US want a real war with each other. That would be insane given all the nukes and the military in all three countries is not insane, even if one or more of the leaders may appear to be insane
The US wants conflict and wants their people and everyone else to feel threatened and to believe they are at war, like in the Cold War and the fake GWOT. This is how the government gets people to support it and its policies. Perpetual War = Peace. This may be true for China and Russia as well.
So we will continue to have conflicts with Russia. Syria, Iran, Ukraine and elsewhere. Trade Wars with China with potential conflicts over Taiwan and Spratly Islands and perhaps in Africa. Venezuela will be targeted without resistance by either China or Russia. So many options for future games.
By repeatedly violating international and domestic law with attacks on Syria Trump is conditioning his people and the world that this is the new normal. Once that is established and it pretty much already is , then we wil see the frequency increase even more, and lets face it, its high frequency already
Perpetual low level conflict as a World Order is basically spelled out in 1984. Orwell was not a prophet he just had access to high level plans on the worlds future by those who create our reality. As Karl Rove said 15 years ago as the US began its post 2001 journey into promoting chaos far beyond the chaos in the 2nd half of the 20th century when they had a free press and Soviet Union to contend with to keep them honest:
"We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
By not confronting the reality of 2001 we have emboldened those dark forces to stretch the envelope. They know there is no lie too big or incredible that they can't get most of the people to believe in. The Anthrax attacks eliminated the last resistance in the MSM. The Ministry of Truth has a free hand now. They can do anything. Heck, they got Trump elected. There is nothing they can't do now.
Posted by: Pft | Apr 16, 2018 12:34:40 AM | 157
Venezuela: . . .widespread international condemnation
Really? Is there evidence of that?
I suspect not. The basic problem that Venezuela is sort of like Cuba, anti-corporate, not liking US corporations. Bad. Socialistic. Probably Commies.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 16, 2018 12:34:59 AM | 158
What's your point? I've read your comment twice and I still don't get it. We all know that the US has been in low-level wars for sixteen years with no end in sight, with many people profiting from it. That's natural for a profit-driven society organized as a national security state.
So what's new pussycat?
Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 16, 2018 12:42:31 AM | 159
Also, I was just musing upon the delicious fantasy wherein, unaccountably, the whole world becomes fully aware and convinced of the U.K.'s role in staging false flag chemical attacks in Syria via its MI6 trained proxies, and so proceeds to launch a precision strike against itself, targeting only those sites known to be involved in the making of chemical weapons. Porton Down is hit. In the ensuing controversy caused by the strike, which was undertaken without U.N.S.C. approval, the proposal being vetoed by Russia, May strongly reaffirms the right and duty of the British Government to take forceful action against itself for the good of international order. The following Monday new sanctions are imposed upon Russia.
Posted by: WJ | Apr 16, 2018 12:42:32 AM | 160
Now that's thinking outside the box. This could be a whole new psychiatric movement, punishing ourselves for our stupid mistakes in life. Or perhaps it's already a reality? But not in the UK, yet. That's why they have a queen, to stymie such thought.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 16, 2018 12:50:47 AM | 161
Circe @ 148: Yep!
Posted by: ben | Apr 16, 2018 12:52:14 AM | 162
Jackrabbit@100 - I believe that was last November in the context of Saudi claims that Hezbollah and Iran had declared war on Saudi Arabia and were conducting terrorist activities on Saudi soil. That was in conjunction with the weird affair with Lebanese PM Harari being called to Saudi Arabia, maybe detained or maybe not, his resignation and un-resignation, and eventual return. That prompted Hezbollah to claim that Saudi Arabia had declared war on Lebanon and the overall scheme was to create unrest in the country, giving Israel the perfect opportunity to pre-emptively attack Hezbollah in a hopefully-chaotic, divided and rioting Lebanon.
At the time, that would have - in my reckoning - easily been prompted by some suitable Israeli false flag attributable to Hezbollah. Nasrallah had specifically warned Israel about attempting to take advantage of the situation. The Israeli goals were and are the destruction of Hezbollah, seizing and ethnically cleansing South Lebanon and owning the water of the Litani River. I forget if God personally gave that land to Israel or they just want it for the water. Either way, God herself would want Israel to have the oil and gas off of the South Lebanon coast because she's nice to them like that.
The conditions now are quite different, and there isn't enough discord (that I know of) to gin up some kind of fake support within Lebanon. Ideally, the Israelis would like to be 'invited' by some faux Lebanese authority to remove Hezbollah. They tried this before by attempting to bribe some Maronite stooge to declare himself leader of something and beg for help in his peoples struggle for independence or something.
Without the invite or the justification to tame the rioting savages attacking them, Israel will just have to wait for the larger Coalition of Evil + Orb Caliphates grand invasion of Syria. Surely nobody is going to object to Israel grabbing their little piece of promised land and booting Hezbollah and the ungrateful Palestinian Refugees out. Who will notice? Everyone will be cheering the destruction of the evil Assad gasser regime, once and for all. Yipee!
Posted by: PavewayIV | Apr 16, 2018 1:00:44 AM | 163
Exactly. What we really need in the tropical West is a, I don't know, call it a "Southern Spring." A peaceful movement of the moderate landed oligarchs for basic hereditary privileges--like rent-seeking, bribery, and protection from an increasingly authoritarian popular sovereignty. USAID should seek to strengthen and encourage this movement however it can. Exxon and BP might fund aid organizations for struggling pockets of oligarchic resistance on the ground. The Golden Parachutes, for example. Instances of the people's brutal reappropriation of the nation's wealth should be documented and exposed for the world to see. Foreign oligarchs should be encouraged to stand in solidarity with dispossessed local plutocrats on social media. Etc.
Posted by: WJ | Apr 16, 2018 1:12:53 AM | 164
US Ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley told CBS that Washington was preparing new sanctions on Russia over Moscow's support of the Syrian government, adding that the measures would be announced on Monday.
According to her, the new restrictions will affect companies that are allegedly "dealing with equipment related to Assad and any chemical weapons use."
Russia should describe its counter sanctions as predicated upon the US being a state sponsor of terrorism.
Posted by: WJ | Apr 16, 2018 1:27:24 AM | 165
The Leaders of the France, United Kingdom and the US (FUKUS) are facing the collapse of their rule.
Trump is facing several domestic issues, sex scandals attacks for the illegal attacks on Syria and extreme attacks by the "deep State". Unfortunately, the alternative is Pence...
May created the nerve agent false flag to create sanctions against Russia and conducted an illegal attack on Syria. About 80% of the UK citizens are against her attack on Syria. In Scotland the disapproval rate is about 95%. The opposition will be attacking him in Parliment.
Macron is facing a revolution by almost all sectors of French society coming together on the streets of France. Macron's CRS assassins are starting to beat the French people which will result in open war on the Streets . All politicians are attacking Macron with the exception of his LROM assembly members. I do not expect that Macron will survive until June and his supporters CRS fleeing France to escape trials. See the over two hour interview of Macron for an overview of the issues facing Macron's rule by edict (Macron, un an apres: le grand entretien en integralite - in French).
The FUKUS cabal is facing a total collapse. Putin was very wise to allow the FUKUS leaders to destroy themselves while trying to destroy Russia.
The EU is also in trouble with the Visograd countries plus Austria and Italy rebelling against the dictates. Even Germany is facing major strikes in several sectors of the economy. In Greece members of the Military in uniform are joining in protests against the FUKUS attack as well as the EU damage to the economy.
Let us hope that Trump will not try to attack again using the Truman carrier battle group. There is also the threat that Trump will attack South East Syria with the US marine recently deployed at the Syrian border in order to capture the T4 pumping station, allow Syrian oil to flow to Israel and cut off road transport between Iran and Lebanon as originally mentioned by PavewayIV.
Posted by: Krollchem | Apr 16, 2018 1:31:41 AM | 166
I like the memes that are seeming to evolve spontaneously
iFUKUS has just the perfect balance of wag the dog construction
And now PavewayIV has added the Orb Caliphates to round out the known control centers for the Western elite
I continue to think it would be a great idea to take the tools of control, private finance, away from the elite that rule our world behind the puppets we see braying in front of us.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 16, 2018 2:14:21 AM | 167
@154 Don Bacon:
Not here, in Brazil.
Here the US can do wathever they want and the people, lobotomized, clap their hands.
We have no spine at all.
Posted by: Fred | Apr 16, 2018 2:29:55 AM | 169
And you don't even mention Electronic Warfare capability (seldom detailed) which I think is the ace of trumps.
Also, there are all the ship/sub launched stuff within range for incoming from the west, and now the Iran based S300s for incoming from the east.
And the fighter jets in Syria which deterred the 4th wave.
And then there is all the other stuff we don't know about.
And France is saving its missile for later, and the UK has used all its 6 missiles.
Posted by: cdvision | Apr 16, 2018 3:11:27 AM | 170
Krollchem | Apr 16, 2018 2:28:11 AM | 168
thanks for that. I have not checked through the links, but even if some looked dodgy, Syria (combined with Russia) has a far stronger defense capability than I realized.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Apr 16, 2018 3:23:09 AM | 171
Thanks for the reminder!
You are correct that the integrated Warfare network using satellite GPS targeting is a game changer, especially for the Syrian air defense systems. I do not know the extent of the Russian jamming capabilities, however, ever since the "Donald Duck" incident in the Black Sea the Navy Growlers and Prowlers at the Whidbey Island Naval Station are sure ramping up their training.
The Russian air superiority fighters are superior to all but the F-22 and perhaps the F-35. Both US stealth fighters are not so stealthy from the side and a tandem of Russian fighters spaced to both sides will eat these turkeys alive. You will find that the Russian jets generally carry more air-to-air missiles that the NATO planes and could effect a 3:1 kill ratio.
Fighter jets are just missile platforms and the Syrian army also has hundreds of missile capable planes.
I am aware of the upgrades to the Buk-M3 and Pastsier systems to allow them to launch 4X the number of missiles but am not sure that they are deployed in Syria.
I posted this to point out it is pointless for the FUKUS powers to attack in force and that such an action might result in Nuclear War/Nuclear winter.
Posted by: Krollchem | Apr 16, 2018 3:53:19 AM | 172
From what I read, messing the navigation of a GPS guided missile is a simple matter of jamming the GPS radio frequency. EW such as drones crashing due to burned out circuit boards is a bit more high tech.
Surveillance drones were running into this problem in Donbass.
cdvision, on thinking about my earlier post, it would be possible missiles targeted at airports had their signals jammed, as I guess jamming can be directional. Those missiles targeting non military targets had no problems with guidance. But I have also read that many of these missiles have video for terminal guidance so jamming the GPS at that stage would make no difference?
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Apr 16, 2018 5:05:21 AM | 174
Just Sayin 175
In the Crimea documentary film, it was either Putin or the military commander in Crimea said that at the time Donald cook was buzzed, it was lit up by Bastion targeting radar. As far as I know US ships have no defense against Bastion. On the other hand when Putin was directly questioned on the buzzing incident, he laughed and said the boys were a bit naughty but at that point Putin's reply was cut mid sentence. As the last part of Putin's reply was cut from the documentary it leaves me wondering what happened.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Apr 16, 2018 5:16:34 AM | 175
Blah blah blah Peter. Posting some nonsense about some doco isn't gonna cut it.
I watched that doco after one of yout fellow armchair warrior morons said it contains some sort of "evidence" to support your fellow armchair warrior morons assertions about super-duper ship stopping electronic tech but I neither saw nor heard nothing like you are describing.
Posted by: Just Sayin' | Apr 16, 2018 5:57:26 AM | 176
Just Sayin' 178
If you can't toss thoughts and stuff around, go fuck yourself
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Apr 16, 2018 6:03:38 AM | 177
I recall that in the last 6 months, Macron was on record saying he wanted to talk with every party, including the Syrian governement, and that he invited Putin to Versailles after he had been completely demonized by the French MSM during the presidential campaign. Then more recently, MbS said that he was ok with Assad staying. I remember reading it in Ahram and this is the only link I find for now:
So what happened? the iUK pulled some strings, to which Macron happened to be attached too?
Posted by: Mina | Apr 16, 2018 6:11:21 AM | 178
jeez, putting up some thoughts on trying to work out what Trump is has sure raised a few spittle spraying, foaming at the mouth responses.
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Apr 16, 2018 6:18:01 AM | 179
Is this how #FUCKUS plans to 'fix' their false-flag exposure problem in Douma?
Russia May Have Tampered With Chemical Attack Site, US Envoy Says
"It is our understanding the Russians may have visited the attack site. It is our concern that they may have tampered with it with the intent of thwarting the efforts of the OPCW fact-finding mission to conduct an effective investigation..."
Posted by: John Gilberts | Apr 16, 2018 6:40:32 AM | 180
@ ben # 82,
"In Trump's book, Art of the Deal, what he respects most is people that deliver what they promise."
Trump must not respect himself much, because according to people who have followed his entire career say he never delivers things promised.."
Trump might have put his name on that book, but he does his business according to the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition.
Posted by: ralphieboy | Apr 16, 2018 6:53:46 AM | 181
John Gilberts 182
Looks like the fix is in re Syria/OPCW, same as with the 'Novcichuk narrative.,
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Apr 16, 2018 6:57:27 AM | 182
beginning of last week, many cruise missiles from Israel stuck targets in south west of Damascus, near Iranian base, near Al-Kiswah. An Israeli F16 was shot down, and some of the missiles but not all. source: @leithfadel
But Saturday, all the missiles were shot down? FUKIS wants war desperately. FUKUS I dunno..
Posted by: majobrs | Apr 16, 2018 7:16:43 AM | 183
You will of course have noted that the family shown on the news was reported as being somewhere "safe in northern Syria". This makes their testimony very credible - until you start to wonder how they got there so soon. Could they perhaps have been fortunate enough to hitch a ride there by bus alongside the jihadist rebel families from East Ghouta?
Posted by: BP1 | Apr 16, 2018 7:59:59 AM | 184
Just Sayin' 178
If you can't toss thoughts and stuff around, go fuck yourself
Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Apr 16, 2018 6:03:38 AM | 179
As I already said Peter: I watched that doco and your claims about what is contained therein are complete bullshit. It contains no evidence for the existence of a new-fangled Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Ship-Stopper Weapon Thingy (NFSDUSEWSSWT ® ™)
So I have already "tossed those thoughts an stuff" around and decided long ago that all your, and your fellow AWMMOA, claims regarding new-fangled Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Ship-Stopper Weapon Thingies (NFSDUSEWSSWT ® ™) are complete bullshit.
I see no reason to uselessly repeat the process just to keep you happy.
Your fellow Armchair Warrior Morons of MOA (AWMMOA) commenters also claim that Russia possesses a new-fangled Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Missile-Take-Down Weapon Thingy too.
For some strange reason, despite the opbvious utility of such new-fangled military contraptions, our Mr Putin flat-out refuses to use his new-fangled Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Missile-Take-Down Weapon Thingy (NFSDUSEWMTDWT ® ™) nor does he seem inclined to use his new-fangled Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Ship-Stopper Weapon Thingy (NFSDUSEWSSWT ® ™)
this is very strange behaviour indeed and surely warrants, at the very least, a strongly-worded letter of protest to Mr Putin, on behalf of you, your fellow AWMMOAs, and of course the whole of the Russian Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Industry, inquiring why Mr Putin flat-out refuses to deploy in theatre his new-fangled Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Missile-Take-down & Ship-Stopper Weaponry Thingies (which we have irrefutable evidence he has, right? At least according to both you and your fellow AWMMOAs)
Posted by: Just Sayin' | Apr 16, 2018 8:25:14 AM | 185
Why are comments here being pulled/censored.
Left two comments one from Gowans going over the basics of lies by US/UK as regards Syrian chemical attacks and other from Zero Hedge speaking to gas pipelines/business interests in Syria. Both with links.
Posted by: Allen | Apr 16, 2018 9:10:25 AM | 186
President Putin had no reason to deploy his super duper .....weapon systems.
None at all.
The US weapons are such old cr*p the Syrians shot down 71 of them using defensive weaponry. some from the Soviet era.
What that says isn't Russian failure - its US failure - its Syrian and Russian superiority.
And thats without the super duper thingees.
Writ large for the whole world to see.
Military cr*p, paid for in inflated prices by the USA taxpayer to line the pockets of the MIC.
Such substandard armaments, we are told it took some 60 or so to reduce to standing rubble a very medium to small building.
Its utterly laughable.
I am sure the Russians are rubbing their hands at the prospect of sending up their planes to turkey shoot the biggest US turkey of all - the F35.
It is so infamous even the name of it reduces much of the public - never mind the military - to broad grins.
If thats all you have, I certainly doubt the Russians will bother to bring out their super duper thingees at all.
Why waste them on typical Yank garbage like that.
Posted by: Emily | Apr 16, 2018 9:17:25 AM | 187
According to the englander papers the russkies aren't allowing the inspectors to go on site, that has created the space for the arseholes to claim the russians are obstructing and are altering stuff at the site.
Is this amateur hour or what? if there is any truth to the story the dingbat who made this call no matter how sound he believes it to be has effectively played right into fukus hands.
The pols will never change their minds but the bulk of humans who were uncommitted one way or the other will regard this stupidity as proof positive the syrians and russians did something.
There has been a week to get things ready, russia has been begging for opcw inspectors and musta known exactly who was who among them, anyone doubtful should never have been allowed into syria to create this theatre.
Russia was effectively bested at UNSC and opcw skripal by fukus games, they know exactly what they are dealing with but holding up the inspection now, if that is what they are doing, is stupid.
The best they can hope for is to come across as old school soviets "your papers are not in order comrade' or most like;ly as trying to hide something.
There is only one crack at this no returns, so they needed to be ready for any tricks and overcome the trickery fast.
Any more that coupla hours more delay and they may as well call the thing off.
I know this is chauvinist and it shouldn't matter, but if russia is serious at all about proving their point they have to use media liason & ambassadors who talk clear understandable english.
Every other state that is serious about getting their point across does this, because most english speakers are selfish arseholes who not only refuse to learn other languages than turn off at subtitles and don't trust interpreters.
come on russia up yer game.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Apr 16, 2018 9:19:44 AM | 188
Posted by: Emily | Apr 16, 2018 9:17:25 AM | 187
The delusions just get stronger and stronger with you AWMMOAs, don't they?
And When they're pointed out to you, you AWMMOAs just double-down. That's a wonderfully delusional solution to the problem of what to do when being confronted with the ridiculousness of your own delusions.
According to all you delusional AWMMOAs Putin already possesses all the weaponry needed to immediately stop all this ZATO Military aggression against Syria, by just pressing a few buttons and activating his new-fangled Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Missile-Take-down & Ship-Stopper Weaponry Thingies, which would in turn immediately incapacitate all the US naval vessels and all their missiles in one fell swoop. (Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Missile-Take-down & Ship-Stopper Weaponry Thingies which we have irrefutable evidence he has, right? At least according to both you and your fellow AWMMOAs)
According to "Emily", the newest member of the AWMMOA, clever Mr Putin would see Syria suffer the effects of 30 or so missile hits, rather than the Zero missile hits Syria would suffer if Mr Putin activated his new-fangled Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Missile-Take-down & Ship-Stopper Weaponry Thingies.
That Putin guy surely must be one hell of an untrustworthy asshole, if he'd see Syria hit by 30 or so missiles rather than pressing a button and disabling the whole ZATO fleet and its missile contingent.
Posted by: Just Sayin' | Apr 16, 2018 9:33:08 AM | 189
We also have irrefutable evidence that:
- the Skripal’s are alive
- Trump means what he says and his version of MAGA comports with our own understanding
- only Russians tried to influence the 2016 Presidential election (and did a piss poor job of it) - ignore the piles of cash, back room dealing, and long-time personal relationships (like between the Clinton and Trump families)
Well we don’t have irrefutable evidence but people (even here!) talk as though we do because MSM and politicians repeat lies and half-truths until they have an aura of truth.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 16, 2018 9:33:37 AM | 190
come on russia up yer game.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Apr 16, 2018 9:19:44 AM | 188
break out the new-fangled Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Missile-Take-down & Ship-Stopper Weaponry Thingies or get the hell out of the pool!!
Posted by: Just Sayin' | Apr 16, 2018 9:34:25 AM | 191
Just Sayin' a whole lotta straw men.
Posted by: WJ | Apr 16, 2018 9:55:58 AM | 193
Just Sayin' a whole lotta straw men.
Posted by: WJ | Apr 16, 2018 9:55:58 AM | 193
you should look up the definition of "Straw man" [argument] sometime, because it seems obvious that it does not mean what you seem to think it means.
It certainly does not mean "He said something I don't like but cannot refute" which is how you seem to be defining it
Posted by: Just Sayin' | Apr 16, 2018 10:13:25 AM | 194
By willfully refusing to activate his (imaginary) New-Fangled Super-Duper Ultra-Seekrit Electro-Warfare Missile-Take-down & Ship-Stopper Weaponry Thingies, (which we have irrefutable imaginary evidence he has, right? At least according AWMMOAs) Mr Putin just helped increase the stock price of major US military manufacturers by almost $5 Billion (with a "B")
Syria Airstrikes Instantly Added Nearly $5 Billion to Missile-Makers' Stock Value
By Jen Wieczner April 7, 2017
Raytheon stock surged Friday morning, after 59 of the company’s Tomahawk missiles were used to strike Syria in Donald Trump’s first major military operation as President.
Trump ordered the airstrike on the Syrian government Thursday night in retaliation for a deadly chemical weapons attack on civilians earlier this week that killed as many as 100 people. The U.S. blamed the attack on the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
The Tomahawk missile used in the strike is made by Raytheon (rtn), whose stock opened 2.5% higher Friday, adding more than $1 billion to the defense contractor’s market capitalization.
The shares of other missile and weapons manufacturers, including Boeing (ba), Lockheed Martin (lmt), Northrop Grumman (noc) and General Dynamics (gd), each rose as much as 1%, collectively gaining nearly $5 billion in market value as soon as they began trading, even as the broader market fell.
(All major U.S. stock market indexes dropped slightly in morning trading after the release of the weakest monthly jobs report in almost a year, which increased doubts about the strength of the American economy.)
The technology and equipment of the defense companies, which all have lucrative contracts with the U.S. government, was likely also used in Trump’s airstrikes on Syria. Lockheed Martin, for example, makes the Tactical Tomahawk Weapons Control System, one part of a three-pronged system needed to launch the missile; the product calculates the trajectory from a ship to the target. General Dynamics also makes technology used to fire Tomahawk missiles
Grrrrr! Damn you Mr Putin!!! Just which side are you on??
Posted by: Just Sayin' | Apr 16, 2018 10:21:54 AM | 195
Oh but I *do* like your performance art!
Posted by: WJ | Apr 16, 2018 10:23:00 AM | 196
Indeed. As the Psalmist said, "I thank thee Lord for my enemies, for they call my Raytheon missiles upon their heads! They empty my stores of munitions. I will fill their people with fire, and the pockets of Raytheon line with gold. Whether thy messengers crash or burn or crash and burn matters not. For their use alone expands the GDP like the bridegroom the womb of the bride."
Posted by: WJ | Apr 16, 2018 10:36:30 AM | 197
@195 -- "Raytheon stock surged Friday morning..."
"It's the (only) economy, stupid!"
HELL YEHA! ... Follow that money!!!
Posted by: Dr. Strangelove | Apr 16, 2018 10:49:34 AM | 198