Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 12, 2018

Theresa May's "45 Minutes" Moment

Today the British government made some dubious assertions about Saddam's chemical weapons the poisoning of its double agent Sergej Skripal.


The British Prime Minister Theresa May claimed (saved tweet) in Parliament that:

  • Sergej Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with a military grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia.
  • The nerve agent was part of a group of agents known as 'Novichok'.
  • Russia has previously produced the agent and would still be capable of doing so.
  • Russia has a record of conducting state sponsored assassinations.
  • The British government assesses that Russia views some defectors as legitimate targets.
  • The British government concluded that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for the act against Sergej and Yulia Skripal.

May went on to claim that:

  • This was either a direct act by the Russian State against the United Kingdom or
  • the Russian government lost control of the nerve agent and let it fall into the hands of others.

I find all of the above claims not only dubious but laughable. Here are some facts:

Novichok, 'newcomers' in English, are a zoo of chemical warfare agents that were developed in the Soviet Union in the 1970s and 80s. Some of the 'newcomers' are said to be highly toxic.


The existence of these chemical agents was disclosed in 1992. Russia joined the Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling and Use of Chemical Weapons and on their Destruction in 1997. It has since (unlike the U.S.) destroyed all left over stocks from the Soviet Union's chemical weapon program. It does not produce chemical weapons.

These agents and their formulas are not an exclusively Russian knowledge or product:

One of the key manufacturing sites was the Soviet State Scientific Research Institute for Organic Chemistry and Technology (GosNIIOKhT) in Nukus, Uzbekistan. Small, experimental batches of the weapons may have been tested on the nearby Ustyurt plateau. It may also have been tested in a research centre in Krasnoarmeysk near Moscow. Since its independence in 1991, Uzbekistan has been working with the government of the United States to dismantle and decontaminate the sites where the Novichok agents and other chemical weapons were tested and developed.

The formulas for the various Novichok agents are not a Russian secret. The U.S. and the UK surely know how to make these. The agents are said to be made from simply components used in civil industrial processes. (To qualify any agent as "military grade" is by the way nonsense. Many chemical agents used in civil process are also incredibly deadly.) The Porton Down chemical weapon laboratory of the British military is only some 8 miles away from Salisbury where the Skripals were allegedly poisoned.  The British government claims that Porton Down identified the agent allegedly used on the Skripals. The laboratory is surely also capable of producing such stuff, just like similar laboratories in other countries are able to do.

Now lets counter May's claims:

  • Novichok agents are claimed to be up to 10 times as toxic as VX. One drop of VX can kill a person. If the Skripals were poisoned with such an highly effective agent how come they are still alive?
  • The Soviet Union, not Russia, developed such agents. The main work was done in Uzbekistan. The U.S. helped to dismantled the laboratory.
  • Russia is likely able to re-produce such agents but so are many, many other countries.
  • What is Russia's "record of state sponsored assassinations"? The British investigation which claimed that "Russia" was somehow involved in the death of MI6 agent Litvinenko is highly dubious. I am not aware of any other cases. There is a long standing protocol to never bother spies that have been exchanged in a spy-swap.
  • If Russia sees "some defectors" as legitimate targets why does it not immediately kill them? Skripal was living openly in the UK since 2010. Why would Russia kill him at all and why now?

Given the above it is absurd to conclude that it is "highly likely" that Russia was responsible. If someone is run-over by a BMW is it"highly likely" that the German government is responsible for it?

The real likeliness for that is just as high as the likeliness that Saddam could hit the UK with a chemical weapon missile within 45 minutes. That was a fraudulent claim another British government once made.

May's claims today are just as believable as the all nonsense Tony Blair said about Saddam or as the show U.S. Secretary of State Powell delivered in front of the UN Security Council.

via @Propagandaschau - bigger

More likely is an involvement of Skripal in the Steele dossier and the CIA/MI6 operation against Donald Trump. Was he assailed because he threatened to talk about it?

Posted by b on March 12, 2018 at 03:41 PM | Permalink

next page »

thanks b...

as usual - the west under the leadership of the usa /uk - need no proof... assertions and innuendo is all that is needed!

i swear they are gearing up for something with russia, whether it be war in syria, thanks that freak haleys words from earlier today, or this, or something... it is non stop..

Posted by: james | Mar 12, 2018 3:48:25 PM | 1

Can we please just get on with the end of the world already. Tired of the games.

Posted by: NewYorker | Mar 12, 2018 3:54:40 PM | 2

@2 NewYorker,

As long as it's the players' world we're ending, I agree 100%. (How come nobody ever does to the Atlantic Council what was done to Charlie Hebdo?)

Posted by: Jonathan | Mar 12, 2018 4:11:09 PM | 3

Two weeks!   March 26.   Let's see if China has the fortitude to pull the pin.

james @1:

What I want to know, is there any build up of troops / supplies?   And, are the unwashed masses rallying to the beating of the war drums?   If no, then we all can rest easy.

Posted by: Ian | Mar 12, 2018 4:21:42 PM | 4

is it not clear then that putin like assad and saddam hussein and the mullars of irania are all new hitler.
spy on spy is one thing but shirley not the young child daughter and not the innocent workers and scientists of portendown chemi weapons facility of salsbury.
the names have been changed for security dot snatch not bot reasons.
the freedum lovers of the world should get up and standby for action jackson.
the kill dosing spray atomising volatilising splash spraying of toxins for easy kill russian spy and baby daughter not to mention attempted murder of the portendown chemi lab 66 while on a local salsbury grave yard picnicks is a tragic.
the sas and the idf need to go to moscow and give putin a taste of the talmud revenge should be cold and kosher already

Posted by: nuttyahoobotcom | Mar 12, 2018 4:26:39 PM | 5

Jonathan @3:

Because it would give TPTB the casus belli to start the next war. If you thought that this farce was bad, wait until something like that occurs.

Posted by: Ian | Mar 12, 2018 4:27:33 PM | 6

What is this "known" Russian never agent? Who else manufactures it? Does UK (or could it as a "special project")? Particularly, in the lab right down the street?

Interesting they allowed the possibility that the gas, if made in Russia, could have been stolen. Is that because they thought the sheeple might actually wonder about the anthrax released after 9/11, which came from a US facility, and which nobody ever accused the government of unleashing?

EDIT: Apparently May is alleging the chemical involved is a novichok, which was supposedly produced by the USSR from the 1970s to the 1990s. Assuming all this is true, I found the following interesting excerpt from Wikipedia in terms of who may have access to the chemical (aside from the Russian state and/or ((Russian)) mafia):

One of the key manufacturing sites was the Soviet State Scientific Research Institute for Organic Chemistry and Technology (GosNIIOKhT) in Nukus, Uzbekistan. ... Since its independence in 1991, Uzbekistan has been working with the government of the United States to dismantle and decontaminate the sites where the Novichok agents and other chemical weapons were tested and developed.

Funny, didn't see anything in May's speech about that.

In reply to Fucking fascist UK with… by Perimetr
Vote up!

Posted by: simon | Mar 12, 2018 4:30:09 PM | 7

In 1995, Sergey Skripal was recruited by an MI6 undercover agent, Pablo Miller, who at the time was posing as Antonio Alvarez de Hidalgo and working at the British Embassy in Tallinn, Estonia.

Pablo Miller was exposed in the early 2000s, after multiple Russians were arrested for spying and fingered Miller as their recruiter. One of Miller’s other recruits was Alexander Litvinenko. [Note: Polonium was also used to murder Arafat – the source is said to have been Israel’s Dimona reactor.]

Miller and Skripal met frequently: Skripal (whose codename was “Forthwith”) passed the entire Russian military intelligence telephone handbook to Miller, containing details of more than 300 of his colleagues in Russian intelligence. In 2006 Skripal was jailed.

After the spy swap in 2010, Skripal decided to resettle in Salisbury, where Pablo Miller also lived. In 2015 Miller retired and received an OBE for services to Her Majesty’s Government. No doubt Miller was Skripal’s minder and was probably the reason Skripal had gone to Salisbury.

According to his LinkedIn entry (deleted a few days ago), Miller worked as a consultant for Christopher Steele – Miller is the consultant whose name was withheld by the Telegraph. Steele's Orbis Business Intelligence was hired by Fusion GPS in 2016 to research Trump.

In testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee (on 3 November, 2017), it was stated that Daniel Jones (a member of Fusion GPS), had described Fusion as a “shadow media organization helping the government,” and was funded by a “group of Silicon Valley billionaires and George Soros.”

Between 26 November, 2017 and 10 January, 2018 George Soros (who is a prolific tweeter) was silent. Not a single tweet. Why, where was he?

Steele has refused to comment about which projects he involved Miller but given Miller’s Russian contacts, it is not credible that the Trump dossier was not one of them – in which case it is also not credible that Skripal was also not involved.

Join the dots.... cui bono? Why would Putin be interested in a has-been spy he could have killed long ago? On the other hand, might certain people connected with the Trump dossier be keen to silence sources, now that Sessions is investigating the FISA warrants and at the same time, implicate Russia?

Edit: The PM has said that the nerve agent was 'Novichok' which is 5 to 8 times more potent than VX... and the authorities waited 5 days to send the army in and over a week to tell people to wash their clothes and other items?

In reply to May: Umm, our investigations… by Shitonya Serfs

Posted by: paul | Mar 12, 2018 4:33:31 PM | 8

What is totally insane about all of these allegations against Russia is that so far they have not identified the nerve agent that was used against Skrpil and his daughter. As far as one can tell from what the British have revealed about this attempted killing is that the agent is an organophosphate triester acety choline (ach) inhibitor. This is a class of chemicals that include hundreds if not thousands of different compounds. As a matter of fact most of these compounds can be synthesized in very simple labs if there is an individual that has the knowledge. It would be possible to put together such a lab in a single family house with a natural gas, electric hook ups and a good kitchen sink along with a few thousand dollars to purchase the right flasks, pumps and temperature controllers.

The suggestion by May that Russia is one of the only countries in the world capable of making this stuff is totally laughable. In the last 80 years the organophosphate neurotoxins have been used by and produced by dozens of countries as insecticides. These chemicals were discovered by German chemists in the 1920s. The difference between an insecticide and a chemical warfare agent is no more than a simple side chain about the phosphate core.

At this point there close to zero evidence that the agent used to intoxicate the Skripils was something uniquely available to Russia.

Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 12, 2018 4:36:57 PM | 9

"Sergej Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with a military grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia.

MILITARY grade? Well then, Mrs. Prime Minister... that's pretty God damn serious then. Because everyone knows the Russian CONSUMER-grade nerve agents are crap. I think they sell them on Amazon (Free shipping with Amazon Prime).

Posted by: PavewayIV | Mar 12, 2018 4:41:58 PM | 10

Like I said in a previous thread Novichok was part of the plot of the recent "Strike Back: Retribution" TV series on Sky TV, Rupert Murdoch's 21st Century Fox owns a 39.14% controlling stake in Sky PLC. So a TV series by a billionaire supporter of Teresa May just happens to make a fictional TV series around a nerve agent and Bad Russians(TM) and is put on TV just before Teresa May accuses Bad Russians(TM) of using said nerve agent. This is not a coincidence.

Posted by: TJ | Mar 12, 2018 4:55:27 PM | 11

@6 Ian,

Against whom? More importantly, alongside whom? If the attackers find a self-hating Israeli Zionist to pin it all on, does that not change the calculus? Outside of the bourgeois neoliberals, who is even buying this one?

Posted by: Jonathan | Mar 12, 2018 4:56:47 PM | 12

Thanks b and Thanks Paul #8

Posted by: jo6pac | Mar 12, 2018 4:57:04 PM | 13

here here may we should bring back national service for the coming fight all the remaining brits that can walk in a straight line should take the queens shilling we need to fight for her majesty for may and bouncy boris johnson.

i would love a crack at the russian but i have flat feet and would slow are trans gender forces down

with a good tail wind we could be in moscow before the next mild russian winter.
we have the muscle the zimmer frames and enough not quite infirm for the coming fight a british dawn call it a happier more positive operation barbarossa
forward into battle goyim

Posted by: golda | Mar 12, 2018 5:00:24 PM | 14

'Was he assailed because he threatened to talk about it?' or is the whole thing a pantomime, a school play, the participants are all actors and the story is just that, a story to side-track and obfuscate the Steele dossier...No facts, no evidence, just wash, spin, recycle ad-infinitum.

Posted by: fredjc | Mar 12, 2018 5:04:06 PM | 15

From the link "Far easier to manufacture covertly because they can be made with COMMON CHEMICALS in relatively simple pesticide factories" and
"The weapons originality lies in the simplicity of its components which are used in civilian industry".
Had the incident involved a Kalashnikov [AK47] left at the scene. Case closed.

Posted by: harrylaw | Mar 12, 2018 5:11:15 PM | 16

Here in the UK there is nothing, I mean nothing in the MSM about Skripal's MI6 minder, now retired, living just down the road or any mention of Steele and his dossier.

As far as the public here are aware he was just a Russian ex-spy living quietly in retirement, giving the occasional talk on Russian intelligence tactics etc.

That there could be anything deeper than that is ignored even though it would make a pretty good story. Many, many others apart from the Russians would want this guy dead before he could spill the beans. Interesting what will happen now as he is still alive, will he make it out of the hospital with a still working brain?

Posted by: JohninMK | Mar 12, 2018 5:15:26 PM | 17

a play a day
ever since babylon
the world is a stage full to the brim with perverted rapist satanic actor.
the queens men where an acting troop long ago.
all actor are queens men.
much trans man wo man.

a play for today who are g4s what serco a state within a state nomatter what all rabbi productions
distractions so the rapist can rape in peace elsewhere

Posted by: charles | Mar 12, 2018 5:16:24 PM | 18

@17 What is Corbyn saying about all of this?

Posted by: Lozion | Mar 12, 2018 5:22:42 PM | 19

even if prooofs came out that ms may was born a boy and had lived it's life as one big lie.
even if that was true i would believe her here hare here the face it is so humane full of truth the eyes so much soil
sorry soul.the eyes of may are windows they are deep.
she lived in the the same town as mossad spoon bender uri geller she bends spoon as good as any wrong un.
she feels the need along with hitlers daughter frau merkel to follow the frankfurt school barbaera lerner spector programme.
russia must be broken they must allow refugee and the transexuals of the world freedum within.

israel would open it's arms but it is full now
sorry about that.

all i say is please shirley believe may in these regardings

Posted by: oliver tobias | Mar 12, 2018 5:27:06 PM | 20

Well, I place my completely subjective assessment on Mossad wot dun it.


Russia is in 'its backyard' and screwing up its plans (destroying IS/ISIL/ISIS/DAESH/Whatever), or at least limiting its options.


Lots of Israeli Russians to pick from for the job, probably previously unactivated ones for this special one off. As 'b' has pointed out already, this agent is not 'magic' or unknown to the West.


Upcoming 2018 Football World Cup in Russia, Presidential elections. Timed for maximum impact to give allies (CIA probably and by extension MI6/whatever) a sliver of opportunity to try and push for collective action to limit or control Russia in the ME and elsewhere.

It all rather smacks of desperation though, which is why I think of Nut&Yahoo who was yet again 'interviewed' last week by the cops. When in trouble at home, create trouble abroad. It's also a pretty dumb move (considering the close relations between Russia & Israel) which I hope will back fire and probably won't work out as planned (as everything else planned by the West hasn't). If Russia fingers Nut&Yahoo for this, then they will call the shots, i.e. he'll have to fall on his sword and Russian troops will retake the Golan. Actually I expect the latter to happen regardless. No one else can do it without being bombed.

Anyways, that's my massive speculation for what it is worth. Not a lot!

Posted by: et Al | Mar 12, 2018 5:28:14 PM | 21

Someone kill a russian guy and UK lusts for war, what the hell?
What will happen after 36 hrs? Most ridiculous I have ever heard. Who do they think they are?
And where is the judgment that this was Russia? Punishing before a court have been assembled - its sounds very likely that Theresa May WANT conflict with Russia.

Posted by: Anon | Mar 12, 2018 5:34:06 PM | 22

If the UK has any doubt, I'm sure there are '17 intelligence agencies' in the US who will back them up all the way! And they're so good, they don't even need to see any evidence to know for sure!

Posted by: WorldBLee | Mar 12, 2018 5:35:59 PM | 23

May's using the trusted-old projection propaganda ploy for her constituents. I await the CCTV footage showing the pair being gassed on that public park bench only 8 miles away from a very sensitive military installation. Seems the only people sniffing the bait are from 5-Eyes, English-speaking nations, as proven by how the media's playing along. The UK's drowning as it continues its slide into irrelevancy after its brief affair as #1 planetary hegemon.

Meanwhile, Mercouris and Escobar provide the underlying reasons why UK/US are so frantic.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12, 2018 5:42:50 PM | 24

@19 corbyn mumbled something about Russian oligarchs donating money to the conservative party. He was roundly booed.

Posted by: Dhaka | Mar 12, 2018 5:49:11 PM | 25

Remember when that building fire killed scores of people, they called for calm and patience until the full investigation is done, not to jump to any conclusions and all that jazz, song & dance. Where is now the famous British attitude "Keep calm and carry on"?

Posted by: hopehely | Mar 12, 2018 5:49:15 PM | 26

The UK poisoned spy is just part of an intensive US/UK/France propaganda effort. US and France on Syria and UK on Russia. Haley in the UN saying US will act on its own unless UNSC demand imediate no conditions 30 day ceasefire in Ghouta, Macron fiddling with his CW red line and now May/UK ramping up the propaganda on Russia.
Ghouta must have been very important to these pricks.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 12, 2018 5:49:22 PM | 27

@ 4 ian... not sure how much of a build up there is.. maybe they are just hoping to do a bombing campaign to protect the golan heights or something? seems like the local hasbara bot has been working overtime on this thread today, lol.

@8 paul... yeah, the 'Novichok' was in the bellingcat memo from the other day that yoffa shared... great that may has some stupid talking point from bellingcat... wow - now we know just how relevant that is! but, i digress... indeed the trump or steele dossier seems to lurk just below the surface with this whole story, but no one is talking about that, least of all bellingcat, i am sure..

@23 worldblee.. lol.. true!~

Posted by: james | Mar 12, 2018 5:51:31 PM | 28

Putin is the problem and not the answer.

To put it in the mildest of terms, Putin is not a good man nor a great strategist who has Russia's best interests at the top of his agenda.

Here's a partial list of things why Putin is part of the problem and not part of the solution:

1. Putin never stopped selling Russian oil for American dollars thus aiding and abetting Russia's sworn enemy, the American MIC.
2. Putin never nationalized the City of London owned-and-controlled Russian central bank and never took control of the ruble away from anglozionist bankers.
3. Putin never stopped BACKING thereby subsidizing the petrodollar with Russian oil.
4. Putin enabled NATO to kill Gaddafi.
5. Putin sells Russian gas and oil for Euros (which are just a different name for the dollar) to the European Union who commit acts of war by passing sanctions against Russia along with the Americans.
6. Putin never demanded the Americans leave Syria.
7. Putin never declared Syria's airspace closed to America.
8. Putin never helped the Russians in Eastern Ukraine establish secure borders and independence from the NATO-imposed criminal regime in Kiev.
9. Putin sold highest-level-military-technology S-400s to NATO via Turkey thereby directly impairing Russian national security.
10. Putin sold S-400s to Saudi Arabia who are wahhabi muslim terrorists bent on the extermination of Putin's allies the Alawite/Christian Syrians and Shiite Persians.
11. Putin collaborates with the Turks who are proud to have ambushed and shot down Russian jets and killed Russian pilots. Turkish President Erdogan wowed to shoot down Russians again.
12. Putin opened Syrian airspace to the Turks so that they could bomb and exterminate the Kurds of Afrin in Northern Syria, just like the Turks did to the first Christian nation of the world, the Armenians.
13. Putin ALWAYS allowed the Americans and the Jews to bomb and kill Syrians and Russian military personnel with impunity.
14. Putin never punished the Jewish terrorists who exploded Russian passenger jets killing hundreds of Russians.
15. Putin agreed to pass sanctions against North Korea thereby agreeing to starve the North Korean population.
16. Putin refused to deliver the self-defense-related S-300s to his supposed ally Iran.
17. Putin has not provided up-to-date SAMs including S-400s to his Syrian allies.
18. Putin is still "investigating" the recent crash of the Russian plane that killed dozens of Russian pilots which were among its passengers.
19. The zionist oligarchs are still in power in Putin's Russia.
20. Russians are still not better off than they were under the Soviet Union.

Putin the crypto-zionist?

Not good.


Posted by: Lester | Mar 12, 2018 5:59:04 PM | 29

19 - What is Corbyn saying about all this?

Corbyn is treading carefully because part of the UK government's presentation has been designed to make him appear "soft" on Russia, and so anything he says will be used against him if it can. i.e. this from The Guardian: "A number of backbench MPs criticised Corbyn for failing to speak out more strongly in the face of what they described as a national security threat... In a barbed attack on Corbyn, the Labour MP John Woodcock – a longtime critic of his party leader – welcomed the resilience of May and said the UK would face a national security threat if led by 'anyone who did not understand the gravity of the threat which Russia poses'."

Other British politicians are describing the alleged attack as "a war-like act." By delivering what amounts to an ultimatum that Russian diplomats confess by tomorrow, it seems the British government has locked itself into a series of retaliatory measures, which it has probably already decided on.

Britain's Conservative Party is loaded with mediocre persons, and it might be assumed that they haven't quite thought out all the implications of their announcement. For instance, the supposed lethality of the substance raises all sorts of questions as to how it could have been applied in Salisbury - did anyone witness a person in a hazmat suit approach the victims before they collapsed? And, as noted, if it is so lethal why was no one else affected and why were the recommendations to the town folk so weak? The Tories right now, with a weak minority government, are trying to impose an austerity program while also ramping up armament spending. Peddling a Russian Threat fits with that program.

Posted by: jayc | Mar 12, 2018 5:59:08 PM | 30

May said the UK government would consider it "an unlawful use of force."
we need to activate nato now the uk needs the help of it's partners nato should not allow russia to go unpunished here.
if it is true the innocent chemical scientists from porton down where injured because of the actions of these mad russians then it is time for the brits to put on the dunkirk fighting spirit trousers once again.
britain can never be beated

Posted by: oliver tobias | Mar 12, 2018 6:07:05 PM | 31

Peter AU 1

Yeah, I think you’re right about their getting unhinged over Ghouta. But cleaning up ‘loose-ends” related to the Steel dossier seems to make sense too.

Could be multiple reasons or one primary and piggy-backing.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 12, 2018 6:07:31 PM | 32

@29 lester.. try to tie it into the content of the thread, instead of posting here infrequently, always saying the same stupid shit.. it would be more convincing! for a second i thought you might be charles lister, not lester, lol..

Posted by: james | Mar 12, 2018 6:07:51 PM | 33

@33 james,

Then how will he have an excuse to disingenuously cavil about censorship and the urgent import of his assigned message?

Posted by: Jonathan | Mar 12, 2018 6:14:03 PM | 34

Wonderful thing the Internet. I have just found this 1993 document that contains a long interview with one of the 'inventors' of Novochuk. It is amazing stuff, as is the rest of the document.

It is part of the 'what can we do to turn Soviet tanks into plowshares' plan back then with interviews with key players. Found in a JPRS report available through DTIC.

I can't cut and past as its a huge pdf that also takes a bit of time to load. Check out pages 18/19/20.

Huge thanks to Twitter users Private Joker and Veli-Pekka Kivimäki

Posted by: JohninMK | Mar 12, 2018 6:15:01 PM | 35

Since the ghouta scheduled false Flag was debunked in advance thy had to come with another chemical big one?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 12, 2018 6:15:49 PM | 36

34 what is your message johnny boy
we know james he judas goat heard wrangler this way that way around and aroundand around.
he nurse ratchett from cookoo nest he the lady with the lamp on her page forum rounds.
he paging clean up crew nightwatchman you silly boyz go fight for your tel aviv getcha to the golan.
fork tongued rabbi

Posted by: david cheese | Mar 12, 2018 6:21:22 PM | 37

Lester @29--

Your #1 point is grossly incorrect making your remaining gibberish just that--Russia's been selling its hydrocarbons to China for Rubles/Yuan for over two years now, and almost all of their inter-state trade is done in their national currencies. Eurasian Economic Union members also conduct most of their trade with national currencies, too, as does trade between China and Japan plus Russia and Japan. The trade regime proposed by Russia including the two Koreas and China would also utilize their national currencies.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12, 2018 6:22:30 PM | 38

Jayc @ 30: I should think that Jeremy Corbyn at this time can only say that a proper inquiry into the incident with proper forensic investigation needs to be done. He needs to know what Salisbury residents themselves think of the incident and the restrictions being imposed on them, demonstrate support for any issues and problems they are having as a result of the investigation currently under way, and demand that the police and government provide timely answers and results.

Bit difficult for a proper investigation to be carried out when the Zizzi restaurant table that the Skripals ate their seafood risotto lunch from has apparently been destroyed already, I know, and the park bench where they collapsed is probably already heading towards an incinerator.

Posted by: Jen | Mar 12, 2018 6:23:12 PM | 39

Thanks for breaking it down, b!

When you think about it, by killing/maiming Skripal the Empire kills 2 birds (pun not intented) with a single stone:

1. Getting rid of a potentially dangerous participant in the fabrication of Steele's criminal "Trump dossier"; and
2. Refueling the Anti-Russia gravy train.

Quasimodo's sister of the Unglued Kingdom may blow Lord Rothschild to the moon and back at behest of Her Satanic Majesty, though in a galaxy far, far away where journalism is objective and independent, such teenage campfire boogeyman stories (yes, "45 minutes" too) would be shredded to smithereens in the blink of an eye by asking the single rhetorical question: Qui Bono?

Posted by: LXV | Mar 12, 2018 6:38:03 PM | 40

Posted by: Jester | Mar 12, 2018 5:59:04 PM | 29

Try another one, that joke is so old it's getting boring...

Posted by: LXV | Mar 12, 2018 6:43:09 PM | 41

aritical 5 is crystal clear here as james has said i agree we need to pull the trigger an attack on one is an attack on all nato must use all the instruements within it's vast power must be activated.
we cannot allow are russian double agents to be snuffed out on church park benches while being surrounded by porton down and mi5 6 agents having picnicks already

Posted by: david cheese | Mar 12, 2018 6:43:17 PM | 42

the park benches grave yards the streets the soils the zizi restaurants will have to be destroyed to preserve the realities of the story.
only when the town has been erased the locals mercurial flourine vaccinated and minutes time has passed.
will the locals b free of the questions story holes and mossad serco g4s live drill error within the meme story arc matrix

Posted by: simeon | Mar 12, 2018 6:51:56 PM | 43

Well said, Lester. Global politics are a form of theater - bloody theater - and Putin is just an actor on the stage.

Posted by: paul | Mar 12, 2018 6:53:32 PM | 44

"Ghouta must have been very important to these pricks."
Posted by: Peter AU 1

And it remains important in that there are a huge number of troops involved in its encirclement and in the direct fights with the jihadists who will be available to free the areas south of Damascus when the vermin in Ghouta are eliminated -- imagine the howls of protest to Uncle from Tel Aviv with the imminent prospect of the SAA, the Iranians and Hizbullah on its border.

Posted by: chet380 | Mar 12, 2018 7:03:02 PM | 45

Join the dots.... cui bono? Why would Putin be interested in a has-been spy he could have killed long ago?
Posted by: paul | Mar 12, 2018 4:33:31 PM | 8

And let's not forget that Skripal's original prison sentence was circa 10 years which, in most civilised countries, reflects punishment for an act of extreme stupidity/carelessness which had serious, and unintended but foreseeable, consequences.
Had Russia believed he deserved the death penalty then that's what he'd have received at his trial. Also the Russians were happy to swap him, which suggests that they appreciated the irony of letting British, not Russian, taxpayers pick up the tab for his 'retirement' pension - not forgetting that it's not cheap to keep people in jail. In Oz it's circa $40,000+ per year.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 12, 2018 7:10:11 PM | 46

Re: simon @7, thanks!

now the US to join in the fray?

United States Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said on Monday that the poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal "clearly came from Russia," and that it "will trigger a response."

Posted by: Perimetr | Mar 12, 2018 7:15:48 PM | 47

@34 jonathan.. good point, lol!

for anyone interested, off guardian has an open thread devoted to this.. one of the more funny quotes from thomas peterson -
"According to Theresa May, Skripal was poisoned by the likely fictional ‘novichok’ which could only have come from Russia.
8 times deadlier than Sarin but apparently doesnt stop you going for a leisurely walk and a nice lunch before succumbing."
and here is one from a yonatan - not sure if it is the same yonatan who posts here, but possibly..
"If a state intelligence agency wanted to kill someone without being caught/blamed, they would do the sort of thing that was done to Gareth Williams (the GCHQ mathematician) – make it look like a suicide at home, preferably with some kind of sexual deviance angle to further distract attention. This incident was conducted in public. It was wanted to be seen as a murder attempt. It was a staged setup for pre-determined policy."

@ 35 johninmk.. thanks for the pdf link.

Posted by: james | Mar 12, 2018 7:18:24 PM | 48

JohninMK @35
I just read your pdf.
It is very interesting.
Yes, USSR had and now Russia has terrible chemical weapons, as does USA, as does UK, and probably others as well. Including weapons that are undeclared and secret. And this particular chemical is surely known to all, as this document was published in 1993. Once known, both USA and UK would surely figure out how to produce it, probably also try to produce an antidote.
It is doubtful that Trump or May or Putin even knows the extent of such secret weapons, though I would bet Putin understands more & better than either May or Trump.
But how does that get us to Skripal? Or does it?

Posted by: mauisurfer | Mar 12, 2018 7:31:28 PM | 49

The Brit part in the current propaganda does seem likely to be aimed at two birds, though I think Russia in Syria may be the more important bird.

In Syria now, The US Kurds are running off to Afrin and US doing nothing to protect them from Turkey. Iraq starting to attack the US protected ISIS in east Syria. Terrorist enclaves in Syria going down faster and faster as Syrian troops are freed up to take part in the next op. Very soon, the US will not even have a fig leaf to cover their occupation of Syria more so if the Kurds eventually turn against them of Afrin.

A bit hard for the country masquerading as a superpower to strut like a peacock if it gets kicked out of the middle east by a gas station masquerading as a country.

It may now be at the point where the US+vassals have to either directly attack Syria, plus Russia in Syria, or pack up and go home. I think this is the main reason for the current UK propaganda.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 12, 2018 7:37:25 PM | 50

British scheming - laughably, always with the poison that is easily traced back to Russia, be it the polonium or some exotic agent with the Russian name - is going overdrive, spurred by a belated realization that Russia is bound to become the biggest beneficiary of the West's at this point unavoidable unraveling. UK is basically in full-fledged panic at this point. Even the most basic geopolitical calculations are being thrown out of the window in the vain hope that the EU will view Britain as a "victim of Russian aggression" and give it a favorable Brexit deal. That won't happen. By cutting all ties with Russia, London will only corner itself and lose any leverage in negotiations with Brussels. French are promising some nebulous support to encourage Britain to cross the Rubicon. Then they'll yank it back. That's real sophistication.
Russians should throw the book at the perfidious Brits, up to the point of severing diplomatic relations. This is getting tiresome, and it's time for Moscow to show some teeth.
Even Americans - themselves on the receiving end of constant British manipulations - are taking a step back, and resorting to verbal acrobatics to avoid being drawn into this mess.

Posted by: telescope | Mar 12, 2018 7:45:31 PM | 51

Sorta OT, but certainly associated. Decided to visit and bookmark Julian Assange's Twitter which has all sorts of interesting content. One cites a tweet from the Russian Embassy, UK:

"What a coincidence! Both Litvinenko and Skripal worked for MI6. Berezovsky and Perepilichny were linked to UK special services. Investigation details classified on grounds of national security."

Assange then tweeted:

"UK response to Litvinenko showed that banks+property, not intelligence agencies, rule London.

If the Kremlin is indicted over Skripal we will get to test this theory again.

My prediction: Lots of noise but policies will ensure that looted Russian billions keep coming."

My assessment of US/UK behavior is of two spoilt brats having a massive tizzy-fit when told by their adult baby sitter that they must cease the video games and go to bed; if only the outcome wasn't so deadly, we might muster a snicker.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12, 2018 7:48:43 PM | 52

But, but, but… if this was a highly toxic nerve agent, capable of killing victims within minutes of exposure, how come it took so long for them to become noticeably ill? They wined and dined and walked – presumably it took more than a minute to reach the park bench on which they were found alive? [See Nerve Agents]

Similarly, if people who visited the pubs and restaurant where the Skripals went – and where it's inferred they've found traces of this deadly nerve agent – are simply being asked to wash their clothes and possessions then surely we have to wonder exactly how deadly it is?

Some days ago the Sun newspaper ran a piece on a Dr who attended to Yulia Skripal; and it reads as though the Dr attended at the scene. [See She's Stopped Breathing]

If you've been poisoned by something that causes: "Death by asphyxiation or cardiac arrest [which] may follow in minutes due to the loss of the body's control over respiratory and other muscles" how likely is it that a Dr with paramedic gear could resuscitate Ms Skripal? The report says she (Yulia) had stopped breathing; if a nerve agent of the toxicity of Sarin, Vx or Novichok was involved wouldn't that indicate that her body was losing control over it's respiratory and other muscles? Raises some interesting questions, I think.

Another newspaper – I've lost the link – reported the Dr as being fit and well several days after this close contact with a supposedly deadly nerve agent.

I note in the Wikipedia Nerve Agents entry the following: The Novichok (Russian for "newcomer") agents are a series of organophosphate compounds that were developed in the Soviet Union from the mid-1960s to the 1990s. The goal of this program was to develop and manufacture highly deadly chemical weapons that were unknown to the West. These new agents were designed to be undetectable by standard NATO chemical detection equipment and to defeat chemical protective gear. Humm, there's interesting!

As always, more questions than answers.

Posted by: carrie_f | Mar 12, 2018 7:50:19 PM | 53

May delivers an ultimatum to Russia, demanding they prove themselves innocent by Tuesday.
Sounds like this one by another British prime Minister 70 odd years ago...
"This morning the British Ambassador in Berlin handed the German Government a
final Note stating that, unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were
prepared at once to withdraw their troops from Poland, a state of war would
exist between us".

Posted by: harrylaw | Mar 12, 2018 8:20:06 PM | 54

The British authorities point out, that the neurotoxin used for the attack is a Russian development. This, and the fact that, according to them, traces of it can still be found days after use, is a de facto proof that Russia has nothing to do with it. Why would Russia be attempting to assassinate Skripal - assuming, for some unknown reason they wanted to - in a British city in a way obviously pointing to them as perpetrators? There are far more discreet methods of killing a person, there is plenty of choice. If the intention was to worsen the relationship with the UK there are other, more direct ways...
A false flag operation comes to mind.

Posted by: Pnyx | Mar 12, 2018 8:24:24 PM | 55

I agree with the above poster[s] who think this [soon to be] murder is part and parcel with tiding-up with the Steele "dossier" affair.

Skripal knew Miller & Steele and...Miller & Steele knew that Skripal was walking around with too much info on Miller & Skripal was disposed of in a manner that best suited the needs of the Secret-State.

This would have been an easy decision for today's sociopath, it's hard to sympathize with a defector and in the end Skripal had no friends. With Skripal's end, there is nobody to contradict Steele's step'n fetch-it bullshit. The "Putin did it" is just bread and circus for the unwashed plebeians.

Sad; I am old enough to remember when the British people had above average IQ's.

Posted by: S Brennan | Mar 12, 2018 8:39:08 PM | 56

Even the CSMonitor, not exactly a Russia friendly outlet writes: "Indeed, it's hard to see how Vladimir Putin, who looks set to be handily reelected next Sunday, and who is able to manifest his threats to the West in the form of late-generation nuclear missiles, could possibly benefit from the brutal murder of an obscure former turncoat who was pardoned and exchanged for captured Russian spies nearly a decade ago."
With her statement May is really insulting human intelligence.

Posted by: Pnyx | Mar 12, 2018 8:39:10 PM | 57

What a chemical weapon, did not kill spy instantly while fentanyl killed junkies instantly and hospitalized mother in law who entered the room hurt children in other rooms. Police waited hours before entering for HazMat crew, sealing house.
None of that done in Salisbury. All of that is a provocation like in Syria White Helmet posing for pictures standing in supposed sarin impact crater.

Posted by: Kalen | Mar 12, 2018 8:53:18 PM | 58


I think the underlying assumption of your post - that a Novichok programme existed - is open to serious doubt.

The only source for the story of a Soviet/Russian programme to develop a new class of military nerve agents codenamed Novichoks is a defector in the 1990s named Vil Mirzayanov. He claimed that one of these compounds was 5 to 8 times more toxic than VX and that production of these compounds had continued after the Chemical Weapons Convention came into effect. He explained the many publications in the open literature by Soviet chemists on compounds with similar structures as a deception to provide cover for secret research on other more toxic compounds, and gave structures for these compounds.

A review of chemical warfare agents in 2016 ( by Robin Black, who had just retired as head of the detection lab at Porton Down, states that there is no independent confirmation of Mirzayanov's claims about the chemical properties of Novichok compounds.

The report of the OPCW's Scientific Advisory Board's meeting in April 2013 made a similar statement, and did not recommend adding these compounds or their precursors to the list of scheduled chemicals banned or restricted under the CWC. The members of the scientific advisory board included people who, like Black, were heads of western chemical defence labs. These labs would almost surely have undertaken experimental tests of Mirzayanov's claims about the toxicity of these compounds. So if members of the scientific advisory board who were in a position to know the results of these experiments did not recommend adding these compounds to the list of scheduled chemicals, we can reasonably infer that they were not found to be military grade nerve agents.

The British government is now demanding that Russia make a full disclosure of its Novichok programme by Tuesday evening. A Russian denial that such a programme existed will be taken as proof of guilt.

Posted by: yoffa | Mar 12, 2018 9:04:40 PM | 59

Ex-spy Skripal poisoning 'clearly came from Russia' & 'will trigger response' – Tillerson

Published time: 12 Mar, 2018 23:04 Edited time: 13 Mar, 2018 00:26

Some readers comments:

Seems like the U.S and company are really craving a war with the Russians, Iran and Syria.

China is well aware that it is going to be involved sooner or later - there is no other way around. They are NEXT anyway.

Yes but China will never be a borrower. They will always be a lender. It’s just their nature. And they know that the US knows who the bo$$ is.

Yada Yada...Reader1h Didn't Nostradamus predict 'The Yellow Man Will Rule The World?'... Soon America will run out of appetite and resource for War. They'll destruct from the inside and literally be a walk over for any invaders!

Poor Rex. Went from being one of the few sane voices in the Trump madhouse to just another lunatic.

Nah....I long ago stopped believing anything that comes out of the US.UK.Israeli Troika. Seen too many lies, fakes, and frauds.

The UK and US lost their gambit in Syria so now we have a new false flag. Clearly, a false flag, with the rush to judgement on the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence.

I wonder what it is that the imperialists are so afraid of losing Ghouta - can't help it but get the impression that even this poisoning story is part of the big war mongering picture

Posted by: OJS | Mar 12, 2018 9:05:06 PM | 60

The US and its nato are now in on the act. This is more than the Steele dossier. Skripal was just a handy bit of meat/raw material to base the propaganda on.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 12, 2018 10:27:55 PM | 61

Skripal had most likely passed his use-by date due to the Steele dossier but if not, another asset they had no further use for would have been chosen.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 12, 2018 10:31:27 PM | 62

karlof1 @38: Good rebuttal..@ 52: Agreed...

I very much doubt Putin is a perfect person, I've never met one, but looking around the globe, Who's got who surrounded, and what empire pushes it's malignant brand of capitalism throughout the globe?

Most here know the answer.

This "Russia did it" meme is getting old...

Posted by: ben | Mar 12, 2018 10:45:05 PM | 63

The UK papers are reporting that investigators in hazardous material suits have recovered a vehicle from Winterslow, six miles from Salisbury. They all conspicuously fail to point out that Winterslow is even closer to Porton Down, just a few minutes up the road.

Posted by: timbo | Mar 12, 2018 10:45:48 PM | 64

@62 Peter AU 1,

And people still line up to "serve" these untrustworthy imperialists, perhaps imagining that they're too indispensable for de Gaulle's famous observation to see them expended so artlessly. It boggles the mind.

Posted by: Jonathan | Mar 12, 2018 10:47:21 PM | 65

DOJ - Indict Christopher Steele and put him under oath.

Trump needs to direct Sessions to do this.

In the next month (supposedly) we have a DHS Report on voter fraud at the 2016 US Election coming out and an IG Report on corruption at the DOJ & FBI as well as rumours of the release of incriminating videos of Hillary Clinton found in the "Life Insurance" folder found on convicted criminal Anthony Weiner's laptop.

We'll know for sure by May Day whether Trump really is draining the swamp in any meaningful way or merely engaged in more con games.

Posted by: Julian | Mar 12, 2018 11:08:29 PM | 66

Even if true, so what? The US military kills civilians with impunity, including innocents like Anwar al-Awlaki's teenaged son. The CIA probably murders hundreds we don't know about. And the puffed-up neocons love to advocate assassinating dissidents like Assange and Snowden.
That being said, I think the CIA and/or MI6 did it in order to pin the blame on Russia.

Posted by: Fidelios Automata | Mar 12, 2018 11:16:07 PM | 67

this is not a rush to judgement i have often read many shylock homes novella where case is solved by page 3.
agatha christie often had miss marple solve the crime in 666 words the rest of the booky is all
more tea crumpet and cucumber sandwich vicar
the brits are the masters of crime detection
listen to me
listen to me
believe bbc

Posted by: simon | Mar 12, 2018 11:20:13 PM | 68

My take on this incident:

Posted by: Christopher Black | Mar 12, 2018 11:30:03 PM | 69

@NewYorker. Well, we may not have to wait so long with T. May. She relished in the idea of a first strike to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent lives.

I am insane and will do a pre-emptive first strike.

Posted by: Erelis | Mar 12, 2018 11:54:04 PM | 70

Very little attention has so far been directed to Skypal dautgher; her presence has surely added an emotional element but no part in the plot.
And then it just happen when she came to visit ?
- One first consideration: if it was a vendetta from Vlad why then to wait so many years and acting just when the daugther is meeting the father ?
- Second point any agent on Russian official (or not) disposal team would have been stricly prohibited to use anything more chemical than a lead pipe.
- remember this turn coat did it for money, supposedely collaborated on the Steele garbage can for money, so did the daughter bring somme message from Russia of the bribe and return home specy against informations on the Steele dossier ?

That would make a much more logical script, IMO.

Posted by: Charles Michael | Mar 12, 2018 11:55:22 PM | 71

The possibility that British intelligence sent scores of its own agents to almost certain death in occupied Holland during the Second World War has been raised by the release of Foreign Office files kept secret for 60 years.

The disclosure that more than 50 Dutch agents working for the Special Operations Executive (SOE) may have been sacrificed as part of a complicated "double double agent" game played against the Germans is likely to provoke heated debate in the Netherlands.

The agents, trained in Britain to carry out sabotage, were parachuted straight into the arms of the waiting enemy, which had penetrated the entire SOE network in Holland. Almost all were subsequently executed in concentration camps.

in another case

All The King's Men" (Collins, 1988) homosexual Freemason, Deputy Head of MI-6, Sir Claude Dansey (1876-1947.)

Dansey deliberately placed a known german agent, Henri Dericourt, at the heart of the french ressistance Prosper organization. Dericourt, a French pilot, was responsible for organizing the nighttime shuttling of agents and materiel in and out of France.
in the wake of D-Day June 6, 1944, hundreds of acts of sabotage were committed by the French Resistance — with one exception.

There were none in the north and north west where they mattered most.

There, the “Prosper” and related “Scientist” networks had been mopped by the Gestapo in 1943. Prosper’s courageous young leader, Francis Anthony Suttill, 34, was languishing in a concentration camp.

He and scores of British agents were later executed, along with over 10,000 members of the French Resistance. One hundred and sixty plane loads of armaments –2600 containers — including tons of sten guns and explosives, were seized by the Nazis. (193)

MI-6 placed their own man Nicolas Bodington in SOE to vouch for Dericourt and block all efforts by SOE (Special Operations Executive) to uncover the traitor. Bodington actually met with Baumelburg on a visit to Paris in 1943. They all had known each other before the war. It was Bodington who introduced Baumelburg to Dericourt.
nothing new
a gay mi6 mason gave up the top teams from other depts within the british government because of rivalry in this case the soe.
more tea vicar benign normalcy

Posted by: simon | Mar 13, 2018 12:06:35 AM | 72

Theresa May is in a bind.

The city of London (and the conservative party) is full of pro Putin Russian money same as Russian money hostile to Putin.

It is highly likely that the - very unprofessional, messy - attack was done by people trying to embarrass Putin before the election. That would be the Russian opposition - Chechen, Russian - whose center is in London plus the part of MI6 that would become obsolete with an end to the cold war.

So Russians are fighting it out in a city dependent on their (largely illegal) money especially under the conditions of Brexit - which may have been funded by both Russian factions to escape EU controls. It is not a good position to be in as the head of a party sponsored by Russians.

May sanctioning Russian "pro Putin" money in the city of London would endanger the city's business model - that money is safe there. It would also cut funds sponsoring the Conservative Party.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 13, 2018 12:53:24 AM | 73

@59 yoffa.. excellent info and find. thanks for that... i wonder what robin black would say about these developments now?

Posted by: james | Mar 13, 2018 1:01:25 AM | 74

71 "Very little attention has so far been directed to Skypal dautgher; her presence has surely added an emotional element but no part in the plot."

More tears make the propaganda wheel go round. No doubt the dastardly Putin slipped some nerve agent into daughters g-string, which was released when father and daughter embraced.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 13, 2018 2:12:31 AM | 75


No, Russia has obviously stuff "the West" is curious about - see Moscow theatre hostage crisis.

But this attack was done in a messy way to provoke a political crisis. Compare to the professional way Kim Yong Un's brother was killed.

So either Russian secret services are incompetent or something else is going on. The worrying thing is that weapon grade chemical agents are available to non state actors.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 13, 2018 2:14:55 AM | 76

In clicking on your link, I find I can access more content by logging in via my Shibboleth?

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 13, 2018 2:18:39 AM | 77

somebody 76

That one is interesting. Was he killed by NK, or was he killed by the hegemon as a warning to NK, or perhaps purely for propaganda material?

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 13, 2018 2:23:07 AM | 78

This was probably carried out by Mi6 for the Steel dossier reasons but also to bolster their shattered ego's after Putin's announcement re his nuclear weapons. More sanctions will just backfire as the last ones did and surely anything more than a symbolic response from NATO would only happen if they are complete idiots......oh wait a minute!

Posted by: Ike | Mar 13, 2018 3:06:05 AM | 79

The moment that I read about this I assumed that the daughter had been sent to deliver a message (or, more likely, an offer) to Skripal to flip one more time, and unfortunately for both of them "Western" spooks got wind of it and decided that This Can Not Be Allowed To Happen.

Hence the hit, and also the need to stage the hit so that the very people who sent her could be blamed for the resulting mayhem.

Am I the only person who thinks this?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Mar 13, 2018 3:08:04 AM | 80

The other angle is, he may already have flipped. Six years in jail and then pardoned. The Ukraine Joan of Ark, much touted in MSM, pardoned, no longer the Joan of Ark one back in Ukraine and talking of peace. Dropped off the MSM radar very quickly.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Mar 13, 2018 3:23:24 AM | 81

If Skripal was actually murdered, that would be an indication of the MAGNITUDE of the problem he posed to someone.

HENCE: almost certainly a clean-up operation by the Russiagate organizers in DC who are beginning to feel the heat.

It may be that there is now another DC faction who has decided that Brennan's Russiagate costume play has gone far enough and it's time for the adults to take over.

Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 13, 2018 4:11:56 AM | 82

All of these distractions must work as planned; there is a never ending drama; ramped up and down; played out ad infinitum.
The play behind the curtain is of course what is deemed important; but hard to focus with all the chatter.
War is coming to Syria; the U.S. is going to make a move (East Ghouta?) soon. They're boxed in and must find out just what Russia can/will do.
Damn stupid move if it's made.
Skripal is just a pawn; but damned effective, so far, it would seem. TM is far more stupid than she looks.

Posted by: V. Arnold | Mar 13, 2018 5:03:37 AM | 83

@ 80
not alone, that's was exactly my thougth in my post 71

my first ever on MofA

Posted by: Charles Michael | Mar 13, 2018 5:07:45 AM | 84

Addendum to #83
Do not discount Nordstream 2 at play in this either. Timing is everything, no?

Posted by: V. Arnold | Mar 13, 2018 5:10:45 AM | 85

The Rocky and Bullwinkle show and sprinkle of Monty Python. WHO NEED NEXFLIX. GOT MY CRISPS AND BEER AS WE SPEEK.

Posted by: falcemartello | Mar 13, 2018 5:27:47 AM | 86

Paul @44

Thanks Paul. :o)

Posted by: Lester | Mar 13, 2018 5:55:36 AM | 87

@james & Jonathan

Understanding who Putin really is helpful in putting this article in context.

Posted by: Lester | Mar 13, 2018 5:59:12 AM | 88

@84 Ah, yep, so you did. So it's not just me who is paranoid....

A general question for the readership here: in the history of Soviet/Russian "hits" on exiled dissidents (and let's not kid ourselves, there have been some) how many times have innocent bystanders become collateral damage?

I don't know the answer, which is why I'm asking: do the Russians have an MO of taking great care that no citizen of the host country is put in danger when an assassination attempt is made on an expat Russian?

Because that police officer first-responder is now fighting for his life, which does suggest that whoever did this was either so sloppy or so callous that they didn't seem to give any consideration to the possibility that innocent Brits would be put in danger.

Which strikes me as very in-Russian like but, then again, what do I know?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Mar 13, 2018 6:21:20 AM | 89

Sorry, damn that auto-correct: I meant "un-Russian like", obviously.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Mar 13, 2018 6:22:56 AM | 90

By the way - the link between Christopher Steele and Sergei Skirpal is made in the UK Telegraph.

Read the comments - 90% bring up Hillary!

Anyone working for Hillary in anything dodgy has a history of ending up dead!


Posted by: Julian | Mar 13, 2018 6:37:57 AM | 91

karlof1 @38

Your are regurgitating memes based on conjecture, rumors and lies.

Shall we stick to the FACTS?

1. Even the SOVIET UNION sold Russian oil for the illegal and unlawful (Article 1, Section 10 of the US Constitution forbids the usage of debt as money) dollars of its sworn enemy, the USA. Talk about failing at your fiduciary duties.
2. Aiding and abetting your enemy by de facto backing his illegal and intrinsically worthless currency with valuable Russian oil is TREASON. Both previous Soviet and current Putin administrations were/are traitors.
3. Putin NEVER said he doesn't sell Russian oil for American dollars.
4. Putin NEVER disclosed how much oil he sells for yuans and euros, and how much he sells for dollars.
5. Neither YOU nor anybody else besides Putin's close entourage know exactly how much Russian oil is sold for American dollars.
6. FACT: we know that a considerable amount of Russian oil is sold for American dollars because the Russian central bank has substantial US dollar reserves which international Russian arms sales are not sufficient on their own to account for. The only other significant (and higher in dollar amounts) source of Russian hard currency income is OIL SALES.
7. Even the oil Putin sells for Chinese yuans is a laughable illusion and ploy to pretend that he's not indirectly selling oil for dollars when he gets paid in yuans. The Chinese yuan is JUST ANOTHER NAME for the American dollar. The yuan is not backed by gold nor can it ever be! Like all IMF member countries including the USA, all European countries, Russia, India, Turkey, and China itself; China is PROHIBITED from using gold as money or backing the yuan with gold. For how many years have we heard now that China was going to back the yuan with gold next month and dethrone king dollar? Lies and propaganda to fool you. It worked, didn't it? You all still think that an oil/gold-backed yuan derivative is right around the corner, right?
8. The euro is WORSE than the dollar and the yuan. The euro is not even issued by a sovereign entity. Not even the central bank of a sovereign power. As per above, the euro is NOT backed by gold. Since the euro is a totally undefined banker-created illusion, no one can even pretend through convoluted reasoning that the euro is backed by the taxation ability of the sovereign that issues it. In other words, the euro is not even backed by the labor force of the tax-serfs like it is claimed in the US of A.
9. Furthermore, the euro (like the dollar, the yuan, the yen, the shekel, the ruble, the dinar, etc.) is completely UNDEFINED as to what its value is. Hence ALL contracts (which require quantities and values to be clearly stated) denominated in euros (or dollars or yuans) are FRAUD. And nothing but fraud.

You see, Putin is just the tip of the iceberg.

You are about to hit, my friends.

Posted by: Lester | Mar 13, 2018 6:50:11 AM | 92

It's been interesting watching UK media over the last 6 weeks. Each step each day incrementing the narrative for intervention in Syria. The press in Europe the same. The first steps were ineffective, alleged chemical attacks turned into confirmed 'regime barrel bomb chemical attacks' then came the obligatory pictures from the white helmets of dead kids and ones with rubble thrown on them for effect.
Now, voila, here's something that will show how reckless Russia is with their chemical weapons, They didn't care about innocent UK civilians in Wiltshire!! - as if they would be that sloppy - is the cry. That will rile up the European public for military intervention.

Things are about to get hotter in either Ukraine or Syria. The US has been poking around the bear intensely lately.

Posted by: Gravatomic | Mar 13, 2018 6:53:46 AM | 93

V. Arnold says:

the U.S. is going to make a move (East Ghouta?) soon

yeah, i feel them snarling and salivating as a rabid hyena. nothing like living jaw agape while your psychopathic overlords narrate their reign of (t)error, as their self-fulfilling prophecy unravels.

i suppose Putin's gonna have to take another hit sitting down.

Posted by: john | Mar 13, 2018 7:02:45 AM | 94

Lavrov as usual gives a logical response to the warmongering UK clowns.“Russia is not responsible,” Sergei Lavrov said during a televised press conference with the Indonesian foreign minister in which he suggested that Moscow would not comply with a Tuesday deadline set by Theresa May to deliver an explanation or face retaliation.

Lavrov said Moscow’s requests to see samples of the nerve agent have been turned down, which he called a violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention outlawing the production of chemical weapons.

“We have already made our statement on this case,” he said. “Russia is ready to cooperate in accordance with the convention to ban chemical weapons if the United Kingdom will deign to fulfil its obligations according to the same convention.”

In his remarks Lavrov said that under the convention, Russia would have ten days to reply to an official accusation by the United Kingdom for the use of a banned substance inside its borders. [The Guardian].

Posted by: harrylaw | Mar 13, 2018 7:20:31 AM | 95

14 1/2 Certainties About the Case of Sergei Skripal - by John Helmer

"In cases like the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal, the only way to proceed is by identifying the evidence which proves with certainty, what happened; or failing that, proves with certainty what did not happen. Perpetrators, co-conspirators, method, motive, intention - all come later, if they come at all..."

Posted by: John Gilberts | Mar 13, 2018 7:29:08 AM | 96

Posted by: john | Mar 13, 2018 7:02:45 AM | 94
i suppose Putin's gonna have to take another hit sitting down.

I wouldn't bet on that this time.
I think the U.S. is going to find out Russia's (Putin's) limit.
Russia has said they will respond if its military personnel are hit; that I'd bet on...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Mar 13, 2018 7:29:40 AM | 97

Meanwhile, "CNN Claims Russian Anti-Hillary Video Game Influenced Election, Prompting Mockery"

Posted by: Anon | Mar 13, 2018 7:39:26 AM | 98

Putin is openly collaborating with Netanyahu, Erdogan, Trump et al. and most of you still await a push back from Putin? After all those years? All the Russian military and passenger jets shot down? The hundreds of Russian military personnel killed by the anglozionists? The dozens of Russian military pilots murdered along with Russian generals?


Not a single American or Israeli plane or drone was shot down by the Russian forces at the explicit orders of Putin and his handlers.


Posted by: Lester | Mar 13, 2018 7:54:03 AM | 99

John Gilberts @96. One of the first and fundamental rules of natural justice is to hear both sides.
Audi alteram partem (or audiatur et altera pars) is a Latin phrase meaning "listen to the other side", or "let the other side be heard as well". It is the principle that no person should be judged without a fair hearing in which each party is given the opportunity to respond to the evidence against them.
On this occasion the Russians are being accused without being presented with any evidence or ability to test the nerve agent [Lavrov has said this is required under the Chemical weapons convention].
The same thing happened over the claim by the US/UK of the use of chemical weapons in Syria. Missiles were sent killing men, women and children before any investigation was initiated, all contrary to International law. The US/UK are rogue states, Putin must hit back hard to any further illegal actions against them or their allies in Syria.

Posted by: harrylaw | Mar 13, 2018 7:58:42 AM | 100

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