Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 09, 2018

WaPo's Ignatius: "ISIS Is There - When The U.S. Needs It"

David Ignatius, a CIA and Pentagon mouthpiece writing at Jeff Bezos's blog, stenographs the U.S. claims about yesterday's massacre against local pro-government forces in Deir Ezzor.

There is a funny contradiction in his tale.

In a first step Ignatius must justify the U.S. presence and action in the area. He does so by pointing to "remnants" of the Islamic State:

The rout ended at about 5:30 a.m. When we arrived about seven hours later, the Kurdish commander was still flush with victory. He took us on a tour later of the SDF’s front-line positions against scattered Islamic State remnants east of Shaddadi.

See, there is ISIS and that's why the U.S. and the Kurds are there.

But in the next step Ignatius must deny the Russian justification for its presence in Syria and he must reject the legitimacy of action by Syrian government forces. He does so by denying any ISIS presence. The U.S., he writes, has eliminated them all:

The Russian Defense Ministry issued a lame statement Thursday, claiming that the attackers were chasing Islamic State fighters. That’s nonsense, as the Russians surely knew. There are no Islamic State fighters left in that area, thanks to the U.S.-led coalition.

Shaddadi is just a short ride from where the incident happened. It is the same operational area. So ISIS is there when the U.S. needs it for its argument, but has completely vanished when the other side makes claims about attacking it.

Contradictions like the above make it difficult to sell such propaganda to anyone but the most dull people. Ignatius is highly paid. His sponsors should look for better value for their money.

Posted by b on February 9, 2018 at 11:10 AM | Permalink

Comments

Meanwhile, AMN reports that the outlaw US Empire allied forces that called for yesterday's airstrike has launched an offensive against SAA forces. Got news for Ignatius; yesterday's attack by the Coalition of the Killing just turned them into Daesh in the eyes of SAA and Syrian government.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 9, 2018 11:34:21 AM | 1

Maybe they could hire John Brennan, like NBC just did.

Posted by: Perimetr | Feb 9, 2018 11:42:25 AM | 2

The US doesn't need evidence in its favor; as long as the imperial voice says it is so, it must be so.

Posted by: WorldBLee | Feb 9, 2018 11:59:12 AM | 3

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. Contradictions are not hard to sell at all. Their pervasiveness in mass media with little to no challenge should prove my point. In fact, contradictions are the main selling point of any propaganda, by definition. For one thing they effectively distract the subject (audience) from the message entirely. I don't believe they are accidental.

Posted by: just me | Feb 9, 2018 12:16:48 PM | 4

I have discovered a new math statement

If UFOs exist
Then the ISIS exist too

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 9, 2018 12:24:52 PM | 5

Instability, weapons sales and drug-running have long been the stalwarts of the CIA cash flow management program. The instability program costs a lot of money; thus the need for the sales program.

But notable in this story is how the value of the WAPO buy by Bezos, CIA bozo, is playing out. As they've learned from experience, someone like Carlos Slim and his NY Times cannot always control the likes of progressive liberal reports with a casual detached management style.

What they really needed was a control freak mentality, such as Bezos, who would threaten to replace jobs with robots should the reporters not tow the company line.

It was a great investment for providing cover for their ops.

Posted by: John | Feb 9, 2018 12:28:12 PM | 6

thanks b.. i agree with your conclusions... find better liars / writers... ignatius is very mediocre..

Posted by: james | Feb 9, 2018 12:36:20 PM | 7

The U.S. needs to maintain the fiction of an ISIS military presence in northern Syria because that's the very thin rationale for its bases there (the 9/11 Al Qaeda AUMF). The other big lie is chemical weapons (Trump's Khan Shaykhun petit ejaculation). We'll continue to have stories about ISIS and chemical weapons in Syria. The U.S. is not relinquishing any turf in northern Syria. Someone is going to have to defeat the Special Forces there.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Feb 9, 2018 12:36:55 PM | 8


Contradictions like the above make it difficult to sell such propaganda to anyone but the most dull people. Ignatius is highly paid. His sponsors should look for better value for their money.

Fortunately 95% of the umkeeran public are the most dull

Posted by: Permafrost | Feb 9, 2018 12:53:09 PM | 9

David Ignatius has a long and esteemed record of sucking CIA ass. He's the go-to ass wipe (mouthpiece).

His official title at WaPo is colonostomy bag.

Whatever shit they want spread out in the world, DI is the man to do it.

One reads his articles only to know what the CIA is covering up today.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Feb 9, 2018 1:16:22 PM | 10

I would correct bozo's mouthpiece: There are no Islamic State fighters left in that area,
thanks to the US extractions.

Posted by: ger | Feb 9, 2018 1:21:39 PM | 11

And he’s a Zionist neocon happy to lie out of loyalty to Ersatz Israel.

He’s not shilling for the agency, he’s shilling for Likud and the Oded Yinon plan.

https://medium.com/dan-sanchez/israel-syria-plan-b-is-to-balkanize-a76296b8fd23

By the way, Trump built a US base in Israel and has recently sent more troops including USAF special ops.

But let’s avoid discussing Israel and the Jewish lobbys’ influence at all costs.

Someone might take offense and call us a nasty name.

Posted by: Mike K | Feb 9, 2018 1:30:08 PM | 12

Such propaganda is dished out daily by all European MSM with no exception. And most "journalists" here are poorly paid.

Posted by: buenaventura | Feb 9, 2018 1:39:11 PM | 13

Did Ignatius get a manly bomber jacket to wear in Syria like Pence gets when traveling to the ME?

Posted by: Bart Hansen | Feb 9, 2018 1:43:09 PM | 14

@ b

This is the same stenographer who spent 3 days with the US brass in Raqqah and then spewed on MSNBC that he "went everywhere in Syria" and the Syrians want Assad to go ( all this when the New New Syrian army was getting their butt kicked in At Tanf and the Iraqi Hashd was controlling the Abu Kamal.

Posted by: Yul | Feb 9, 2018 1:53:20 PM | 15

Jeff Bezos's blog

hahaha, good one...

Posted by: john | Feb 9, 2018 2:09:47 PM | 16

"Just me" is right. Contradictions are the very heart of propaganda. Propaganda isn't meant to appeal to people's logic. Propaganda is aimed at people's need to have a story to believe in. If anything, it is preferable for such stories to be packed with outrageous lies and fallacies, not to mention contradictions. Tell the big lie, not the little lie. Disoriented people become desperate for a story to believe. It doesn't need to make sense. It needs to have some emotional power. It needs to give people someone to blame, someone - or someones - to scapegoat.

Posted by: paul | Feb 9, 2018 2:13:06 PM | 17

Mike K:

The partitioning is all about retaining control of the oil. CIA is there playing a strategic role. And they are well paid by their masters, Big Oil. Israel is a partner for sure, but oil is always the reason we'd go in with much resources at all.

Al-Omar is the largest oil field in Syria with the capacity to produce 75,000 gallons per day.

Given that we were "racing" the Russians for control, I really do think this is about oil. Even The CIA has admitted it.

Posted by: John | Feb 9, 2018 2:30:27 PM | 19

@ 4 & 17: Correct o mundo !!!

Bad faith from the Russians eh? That's a real laugher..

Screw that talking head Ignatius. Just another mouthpiece for the empire..

Posted by: ben | Feb 9, 2018 2:34:53 PM | 20

got to admit - jeff bezos blog - i am keeping that one!

Posted by: james | Feb 9, 2018 2:38:00 PM | 21

„ There were no SAA troops to our knowledge, the forces were local defense forces in charge of holding defensive lines in the liberated areas. The casualties are NOT as reported the number is not even 1/3 of the number circulating the media …There was NO operation in the area, NO troop movement nor heavy arms movement as the so-called “US-Led Coalition” claimed.

The so-called “US-Led Coalition” did not provide a single footage, proof or anything regarding their alleged Syrian operation; nor their alleged targeting and casualties number. The entire news are based on a statement.

We do not claim to know what the Syrian command have in mind but we know as much as there are many who wish to escalate things and create a pretext for a further military intervention in Syria …“

https://www.sofmag.com/the-so-called-us-led-coalition-attack-was-unprovoked-syrian-army/

„The entire news are BASED ON A STATEMENT“

The usual source for these stories are anonymous „US officials“, whatever they say is being repeated by „churnalists“ (who never set a foot into Syria) and presented as „serious“ information after being chanelled through a „press agency“ … even „RT“ and other „alternative media“ fall into the trap of presenting the two narratives (US and Russia/Syria) so the readers can choose which side they want to believe (according to the preferred frame).

This is what they learned in their „journalistic“ education but in an environment of constant manipulation (communication turned into a weapon: „strategic information“ and „outrage-management“) this approach is no longer acceptable …by merely distributing what „US officials say“ they become part of a vicious crime against humanity …

If they had been trained to think for themselves (and do their own research) they might have found that the „protection of the coalition“ scam is not so hard to detect:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/02/08/us-scrambles-firepower-defend-sdf-against-pro-assad-forces.html

„…The U.S. sent up the F-22A Raptor advanced stealth fighter, along with DRONES, to WATCH as the three-hour battle began.

"At the start of the unprovoked attack on SDF and coalition advisers, coalition aircraft, including F-22A Raptors and MQ-9B Reapers, were overhead providing protective overwatch, defensive counter air and [intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance] support as they have 24/7 throughout the fight to defeat ISIS," Air Forces Central Command spokesman Lt. Col. Damien Pickart told Military.com.

Q: If they have drone footage and „24/7“ surveillance/reconaissance data, why don’t they show it to the world? (as the Russians did to prove their claims in the past)

A: Because there was no „advancing aggressor force“.. because they are the murderous aggressors .. who project their own crimes on their adversaries (so they can pretend to fight against the „monster“ that resides in themselves…)
As B has already pointed out „tank rounds“ that land 500 meters off their target are not a very credible „threat“ either… and how come that with all that heavy equipment the „attack“ injured only 1 „coalition“ fighter? (see the questions raised by the Russian spokesperson)

But wait – the US military has a real problem „as battlespaces SHRINK in Iraq and Syria“ (!) and they have the gall to tell (brain-damaged reporters) that „We're trying to de-escalate," Air Force Brig. Gen. Charles Corcoran, commander of the 380th Air Expeditionary Wing, told Military.com on June 26.

But the revealing part comes in the last paragraphs:

„Military.com sat down with the commander at Al Dhafra Air Base, United Arab Emirates, as part of a reporting trip to observe air operations against the Islamic State. During an interview in his office, Corcoran underscored, "We're here to fight ISIS," but … he also …said "ISIS is a SIDESHOW ... (when they are gone) we're going to have „state-on-state" forces fighting … that's the real issue."

Posted by: Cassandra | Feb 9, 2018 2:46:56 PM | 22

Somewhat off topic.

China to launch crude oil futures on March 26

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-02/09/c_136962900.htm

Posted by: ex-SA | Feb 9, 2018 2:47:41 PM | 23

(Part 2)

...And finally …among the „strategic“ BS Reuters usually distributes:
„U.S. TELLS SYRIA: WE‘RE NOT SEEKING CONFLICT“

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-usa-syria/u-s-dismisses-fears-of-wider-war-after-deadly-syria-clashes-idUSKBN1FR3BB

„Pentagon spokeswoman Dana White told a news briefing that Washington was not “looking for a conflict with the regime.”
(How stupid can you get?)

… and their regular use of manipulative language:

Syria trying to regain control of ITS OWN TERRITORY is framed as“ attempting to SEIZE terrain SDF had liberated from Daesh“…
(the „fall“ of Aleppo when Al Nusra was no longer terrorizing the Eastern part)
…making us worry about „U.S. forces in Syria (facing) DIRECT THREATS in Syria“ while in reality THEY ARE the threat and Assad, SAA and allied forces are using DEFENSIVE violence ... (if they feel „threatened“ in Syria the solution is simple: get the hell out of there)

… their deliberate omission to point out the legal dimension: the phony „coalition“ operates without any authorization from the Damascus government or a UN mandate, flagrantly violating the sovereignty of Syria and is therefore ILLEGAL and IMMORAL …but the media does an excellent job in turning reality on its head …

… but we may find a nugget of truth:

Asked whether the U.S. military was stumbling into Syria’s broader conflict, Mattis said: “No. THIS IS SELF-DEFENSE. (Hitler said that, too: „Ab morgen wird zurückgeschossen!“)

“If we were getting involved in a broader conflict, then it would have had an initiative on our part,” Mattis told reporters at the Pentagon.

(you bet).

Posted by: Cassandra | Feb 9, 2018 2:54:57 PM | 24

MoA article on Information Clearing House site:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

Posted by: ben | Feb 9, 2018 3:00:48 PM | 25

Since the Sochi Congress's adjournment, Russia's critique of the Outlaw US Empire's many transgressions in Syraq has steadily amplified. Garrie notes four main points Russia and friends are repeating like a mantra:

"1. The US military presence in Syria is illegal according to the letter of international law.

"2. The US military presence in Syria is counterproductive as it inhibits the ability of Syria’s partners to destroy terrorists.

"3. The US seeks to divide/partition the country, using its Kurdish proxies as the pawns in order to achieve this, all the while antagonising Turkey in the process.

"4. The US is not concerned with peace but simply wants to get its hands on Syria’s resources, including oil."

Hopefully, the mantra will produce results, certainly unpredictable as to type. For example, relative to what I posted earlier, AMN is now saying the reported offensive by the US-backed terrorists in Deir Ezzor may be false, settling for a propaganda assault instead.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 9, 2018 3:07:33 PM | 26

I agree with Just Me @ 4 and Paul @ 17: the contradictions, as long as they appear "minor" and don't go against the general thrust of what David Ignoramus wants to say, are a necessary part of the "story". "Stories" are what the mainstream news media sells these days - any pretence at giving us "news" or "just the facts" died long ago.

A major part of the reason that the "problems" of the Middle East are seen to be so intractable is the continuous layering of lies and contradictions upon other layers of past lies and contradictions. In such a context, diplomacy is seen as useless and the Western public is encouraged to be sceptical and cynical about its effectiveness. The military option including invasion and ongoing occupation can then be presented as the only feasible solution.

Of course, for that to work, continuous chaos in the area must be maintained and the parties to the conflict, other than the US and its allies, must be seen to be duplicitous and inconsistent.

I note that David Ignoramus writes about the incident as though it were just another episode in an ongoing videogame, where the enemy can just pop up out of nowhere. In such "videogames", a score of 100 dead pro-govt fighters and one injured fighter on the US side doesn't look strange, at least not to people with Ignoramus' gaming mind-set. The vagueness of his account, including the Kurdish commander's name, is part and parcel of that mind-set, because ultimately it's all about embellishing the US military's reputation.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 9, 2018 3:08:04 PM | 27

This attack or else a pure psyop -- we have no ability to know which it is -- was most likely perpetrated by the Blackwater Airforce and promoted in allied ISIS Zionist media, to send a message to the Russian mercenary firm Wagner and/or Sunni Arab tribesmen who may be thinking of switching sides.

Posted by: C I eh? | Feb 9, 2018 3:21:05 PM | 28

At present, the best Belly Dancer on the stage is the USA.

Belly Dancer has cultural associations in the region: twisty, tricky, crafty, shuffling, fraudulent, deceitful, foul, serpentine... But how come, a superpower, a civilized country is viewed like that?

I don't know what normal people are thinking in the West. In this region: ISIS = PRS (create a Problem, get a Reaction and reach a Solution).

Jarablus and Manbij, 2 adjacent areas.
Turks begin OpEuphrates Shield against ISIS (Daesh) and they eliminate over 3000 daesh fighters.
US led PKK quickly take over Manbij. How many ISIS members were killed? 1? 2? 50? None? The Daesh leave the area to the SDF/YPG/PYD (PKK in short) what appears to be without firing a single shot.

How come? Manbij is 90% an Arab town. And the PKK Kurds take it without a proper battle?
Turks tell the US to go back to the other side, to the East of Euphrates. The US says they promise they will get out once they are done with the ISIS/Daesh or whatever. But what ISIS? Their leaders are transported from point A to point B by US choppers. Their fighters are transported with trucks and busses from point A to B too.

And now? The US says they won't leave Manbij. US says to Turks: come and take it if you dare. But what's going on? 5000 trucks of US+EU heavy arms arrive in the area. More weapons are arriving now. Because of ISIS. But what ISIS? Where are they? The US govt says they now want 30.000 strong "Border Force'. Turks go mad.

PKK/PYD/YPG also take over Afrin, 65% non-Kurdish town in 2012 and gradually build up military presence.

The ISIS had taken over Mosul very easily with only a few hundred strong fighters. Barzani the local and international hero came for help and ousted the ISIS and declared an ancient Turkmen town, Kirkuk as one of their own as well as Mosul. PKK did the same in Manbij. So clearly some looting going on. OK, I understand the Kurds need a state, they are the underdog and that the ISIS are monsters but, this is clearly an invasion.

Afrin, Kirkuk, Mosul, Manbij, and another Arab town Raqqa are all under PKK control. What's going on? Sorry, we have an ISIS problem.

"WAR IN SYRIA
France 24 reports from Kurdish town of Manbij"

LOL. What Kurdish town? Manbij? Are you kidding?

That is only 1 example. The Western Media, US+EU, when you look at it from here is absolutely infested with Hilarious Baghdad Bobs, many clones of the funny Iraqi Information minister appearing on TVs and newpapers and the internet of the Western World! LOL! The level of propaganda in the West is mindblowing. It is also totally incredibly hilarious.

ISIS destroyed an ancient site! (Yes, and you got the artifacts somewhere in some country baby!) Oh there goes Palmyra! (2020 British museum proudly announces that they have recovered some the ISIS loot. Berlin museum recovers the rest in 2021 etc.)

But why is that? Why is there so much hysterical propaganda in the West?
Is it about oil? Is it about giving some guys some land? Water? Israel's security? Surrounding of Iran for a future op?

Meanwhile, poor Syrians are refugees, 3.5m in Turkey alone and in Jordan, EU, everywhere.

Palestinians are in Jordan and Lebanon, Syrians are away from Syria.

Why is that? Do you want to bring in some new settlers to the region instead of Syrians? For example Eskimos? or Okinawans?

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 9, 2018 3:23:43 PM | 29

When they go out to attack Syrian government forces,they're ISIS. As soon as they retreat, they're US backed Kurds. Hence the confusion.

Posted by: NeoGrouchist | Feb 9, 2018 3:45:01 PM | 30

Re: C I eh? @ 29

Speaking of Blackwater, see this recent article by William Engdahl Major Beijing BRI Security Fiasco Emerging

"A major security fiasco involving a major China state company and a Hong Kong-based corporate security company is emerging. It could potentially open up the massive Eurasian project of China, its Belt, Road Initiative (BRI), to major covert sabotage directed out of Langley Virginia CIA headquarters and carried out by a “Trojan Horse” the Chinese have hired to train their personnel to protect the high-speed Eurasian rail and deep water ports infrastructure from sabotage and terror attacks. The Hong Kong company is owned by Erik Prince, notorious founder of Blackwater Security.

At the same time Prince is being paid by the Chinese to protect their BRI, he is reportedly plotting with Trump and CIA chief Mike Pompeo to form a “private CIA,1 completely off the books” that would do black operations in many of the Eurasian countries linked to the BRI. This is shaping up as a major security fiasco for China’s BRI if left uncorrected."

Posted by: Perimetr | Feb 9, 2018 3:59:52 PM | 31

What's the rent ? Some barbs are being burned and people not happy. We have more chance to see thees 100 killed running healthy around than the 70k special guests of ASSAD's prisons. If god whisper you that tomorrow you are to be translocated to Syria, which Area will you prefer : Idlib Al Qada, ha, you dream to wear an Orange suit and be pictured prime time CNN, SDF Rojava ? best choice so far, any ASSAD zone? you guy, hate your fingernails.

Posted by: murgen | Feb 9, 2018 4:27:13 PM | 32

Regarding the SDF attack on pro-Assad forces in Deir EzZor:

First, the 'pro-Assad' forces are tribal NDF locals - at best, they're neutral with regard to Assad and the Syrian government (but they appreciate the few pieces of donated armor and artillery). Not sure there's any real SAA involvement, especially in the few villages east of the Euphrates these forces liberated/held since last October. They are anti-ISIS and probably anti-SDF/Kurdish as well. A few Russian merc 'advisers'? Anyone's guess, but Why not? They'll take whatever help they can get. No hint of any Shia/Iranian/Hezbollah allies in the mix there.

The SDF side is the interesting part, because there IS NO SDF this far south (except in CENTCOM PsyOps PowerPoint slides). This is pure, 100% Arab tribal militia operating as the Deir EzZor Military Council (DEMC) and they hate... well, *dislike* the idea of being commanded by Kurds. In CENTCOM's less guarded moments, they will begrudgingly refer to DEMC as an SDF allied force. There is NO SDF in this area, and there are no Arab forces 'under the command' of SDF in this area either.

So DEMC - they're fighting ISIS, right? Well... no. The DEMC is another failed CENTCOM project, just like the New Syrian Army in at Tanf. The DEMC is trained and equipped by CENTCOM, but is mostly worthless as a fighting force. The DEMC commander is an ex-FSA small-time thief and thug that played anybody in charge - until ISIS chased him out of Deir EzZor and Syria, itself. He's back now because he knows exactly how to play CENTCOM for cash, weapons, vehicles, etc. (when he's not looting the locals). He's great at defiant anti-ISIS sound bites and drinking tea in his command headquarters.

DEMC troops really don't want to fight ISIS. They depend almost entirely on CENTCOM leveling a village before they'll move in. That ISIS strip on the east side of the Euphrates from al Bahra/Hajin to al Bukamal? Yeah, wake the DEMC up when al Bahra and Hajin are gone - they'll move in to loot the place and wait for CENTCOM to de-ISIS the next town downstream. Not sure who is guarding the oil field booty, but CENTCOM isn't going to rely much on these guys. No doubt there's a few SOF 'minders' that keep an eye on them at every oilfield while mere DEMC presence maintains the specious SDF territorial claims.

Which kind of leads to the current situation: the DEMC doesn't actively hold all the supposed SDF-controlled territory. It's more like the at Tanf 'security zone' - CENTCOM drew some borders and will kill anyone it cares to or doesn't like in that zone, i.e., SAA and allies. ISIS forces seemingly move in and out of the at Tanf and east Euphrates/Deir EzZor zones relatively unmolested or just outright ignored. So the NDF - repeatedly attacked by ISIS - decides to do some ISIS housecleaning in (take your pick) either Al Isba Oil Plant or the village next to NDF-held al Tabiya, Jadid Akidat. Just like in the at Tanf 'security zone' - the kind-of FSA guards (and their SOF handlers) attack the trespassers. When the trespassers fire back, its time call in some CENTCOM air force retribution.

As usual, CENTCOM denies the inability of their useless ex-FSA to contain ISIS, but always has plenty of resources to throw at their SAA and allies exclusion zones. In any case, they have to back up the DEMC tribal looters lest they run away. Then who will CENTCOM use to hold their oilfield booty? The damn Syrians will take them back - that can't happen!

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 9, 2018 5:11:37 PM | 33

PavewayIV @33--

Some of the KIA/WIA were ISIS Hunters which are a part of SAA. I expect to see Tiger Force redeployed to clean out the East Euphrates region; when is the only question. Syria's becoming akin to Vietnam: Outlaw US Empire's already lost and is just marking time killing here and there before it gets ejected.

As for the next big anti-Russian provocation, I expect Porky will attack Donbas before the Spring Thaw begins and prior to Putin's reelection

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 9, 2018 5:31:57 PM | 34

Reminds me of a game I'd play with my little sister. I'd say "Ah, look what I did to my elbow"!

When she looked I'd slowly whack her with my upper-hand.

After awhile she wouldn't look ;-(

Posted by: foo | Feb 9, 2018 5:38:24 PM | 35

Here's a Wikimapia map of the general area with most of the pertinent oilfields/villages labeled.
Google satellite image of the al Isba oil processing facility
And colors! Red = Syrians, Yellow = SDF(not really)/DEMC

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 9, 2018 5:59:02 PM | 36

karlof1@34 - Well, the ISIS Hunters were obviously a serious threat to CENTCOM's hired thugs and their war on ISIS. Besides, ISIS Hunters are Syrian - they have no business on the sovereign territory of USDFistan or its legally stolen oil fields. Respect international borders! Don't make us call out the gunships again.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Feb 9, 2018 6:08:13 PM | 37

there were rumors that Assad regime promised to the russian mercenaries called vagner group a quarter of revenue from the oil fields they would secure. they tried and were repelled. there might be also a behind the doors agreement between Putin and the US about which oil fields who controls, because russians keep silence about this attack and they did not try to expand their control to the east side of Euphrates. Russians like the US are only interested in getting oil, once Assad controls all of Syria russians are no longer needed, so best russian interests would be freezing the conflict, making Assad dependent on their continuing presence and making sure they will be permanently getting a share from the Syrian oil, however, the best oil fields are on the east side, which are controlled by SDF and the US

Posted by: Rafik | Feb 9, 2018 6:38:19 PM | 38

World cops get to magic up all sorts of boogeymen. The not so good the bad the ugly creations that live inside their new realities. I guess this is how Kurdistan is born. On the back of a schizophrenic presence.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Feb 9, 2018 7:11:17 PM | 39

"Contradictions like the above make it difficult to sell such propaganda to anyone but the most dull people".

American sheeple ARE dull people.

Posted by: Du | Feb 9, 2018 7:25:12 PM | 40

Americans are fighting Syrian foreign fighter in Syria.

Posted by: Du | Feb 9, 2018 7:26:01 PM | 41

I've always appreciated PavewayIV's knack for Johnny Carson-like black humor. I do hope he followed my advice to short the S&P 500; I've already reaped a nice bundle. Putin's reelection is on 18 March; so, the Outlaw US Empire has a bit more than a month to prepare its provocations. The behavior-based evidence generated so far suggests Trump lied when saying he wanted improved relations with Russia. It seems Dotard was an apt description.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 9, 2018 7:48:03 PM | 42

@42 So you went short. Good move. Please tell us when to get back in.

Posted by: dh | Feb 9, 2018 8:06:37 PM | 43

ot - from john helmer today...

"GRU’s spokesman points out that the source of the man portable air defense system (MANPADS), which hit Philippov’s aircraft, may have been the US, Russia, Syria, Libya, Bulgaria, Turkey, China, or the Kurds. But as of Tuesday, GRU wasn’t as sure of that as it was certain the men who fired on the aircraft and then the pilot were trained, equipped, paid, and supported in their current position on the ground by the US. US intelligence was also supplied to these attackers so that they knew in advance the route and altitude of Philippov’s aircraft, and were in position to fire and to film what happened as a “show”.

The implication of this GRU analysis is that the US military command cannot be trusted by Russian commanders to stick to operational agreements for flight coordination and de-escalation zones. But there’s a further, bigger implication from the GRU report – either the Russian side should escalate and counter-attack, to remove US proxy and special forces from these zones altogether; this is much more than the Russian air strikes in Idlib province, reported to have followed Philippov’s death. Alternatively, according to the published GRU report, treating Philippov as having flown into a US-baited trap, the Russian Air Force should stop providing the US with flight coordinates in advance of operations, or withdraw their aircraft out of US-guided shooting range."

Posted by: james | Feb 9, 2018 8:07:32 PM | 44

ex-SA @23:

LOL   Maybe it's a retaliation to the recent US Navy's FoN exercises of the South China Seas.   SF is reporting that the Carl Vinson is near the Balabac Strait.

Posted by: Ian | Feb 9, 2018 10:54:44 PM | 45

karlof1 | Feb 9, 2018 5:31:57 PM | 34
US have tried this before. I doubt the Pro-Syria alliance will be diverted from their long term plans - or not while Putin's Russia is involved. If plans are changed - tactics rather than strategy, it will most definitely not be to US expectations or liking.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 9, 2018 11:56:59 PM | 46

I am now reading that the US is getting its UN front folk to propose a 30 day suspension of air traffic to provide "humanitarian" relief.

I have seen this feint used before to move the players around when some area gets to hot for its embed folk.

Will the US have the oil facilities blown up on their way out in hopes they get some of the contracts to rebuild?....The God of Mammon religion is a serious human illness that has no morals.

@ karlof1 with the rush of financial gain over the system......congrats, but know......they can maintain liquidity way longer than you can and set the rules the games is played by........the market is only going to really crash, IMO, if the elite don't get enough war to force another country to blink economically first......what a stupid way to run a world.....

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 10, 2018 12:45:23 AM | 47

OT
For the Russia knockers and what Russia is doing about Israel attacks on Syria. Perhaps a year ago, Russia (Mod?) announced Syrian air defenses had been upgraded and integrated into Russian Air defense controlled from Khmeimim.

Magnier

#Israel can't ignore the downing of its F-16, never happen in the last decades over #Syria and #Lebanon. Therefore what is important is the level of response: will the response bring a retaliation? If so, the long waited war may began.

This is a new Rule of Engagement and a new situation where #Israel is finding itself incapable of dominating the #Syria/n air space. It also shows #Damascus freedom (unlike many analysts believed) to respond regardless what #Russia's position is.

#Syria/n officials believe more than 1 F-16 were hit by its anti-Air missiles, showing the Syrian air-defence capability and the challenging attitude of #Damascus towards #Israel (not accepting the Israeli version of only 1 F-16 downed).

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 10, 2018 1:05:31 AM | 48

Magnier twitter thread on Israel aircraft vs Syria.

https://twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/962201524729466880

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 10, 2018 1:11:55 AM | 49

@50 yes, following this closely..

Posted by: Lozion | Feb 10, 2018 1:13:12 AM | 50

@ Peter AU 1 and Lozion about evolving events in Syria

Is the Reuters link below the same development that you a referring to?

Israel shoots down Iranian drone, strikes Iranian targets in Syria: army

I am not a Twitter follower and wasn't sure from the Peter AU 1 link

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 10, 2018 2:10:29 AM | 51

psycho @52:

It is. Reuters is reporting the initial Israeli story while Syria is stating it was an F-16.

AMN reporting Israeli AF missile attacks towards the western countryside of Damascus, targeting the Al-Kiswah area near the Iranian base.

Posted by: Ian | Feb 10, 2018 2:22:20 AM | 52

"Making it difficult to sell to all but the dull people"
Dull?
Sorry, b , they are not dull. They are semi morons, too foking preoccupied with brain rotting nonsense, they have been pounded for decades of a press having a neocon/corporate agenda. Americans are so close to "Idocracy" that most of the rest of the world must be seen as geniuses.
Told to me by someone who lives there.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Feb 10, 2018 2:23:32 AM | 53

psychohistorian 52

Yes, looks to be the same incident.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 10, 2018 2:35:23 AM | 54

The Empire Strikes back!
It was to tempting to use , but also stupid, I know.
According to Media Syrian airdences downed an Israeli F 16 after it attacked Iranian assets in Syria. The Israeli press talks of an Iranian UAV, which of is a barely hidden lie and only used as an excuse. The fascists in Tel- Aviv got a warning there, wonder if it was a S 400 or S 300 that was used.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Feb 10, 2018 2:45:01 AM | 55

@ Peter AU1 with the confirmation...thanks

The Olympics have opened so, IMO, the nefarious believe they have cover to try various atrocities and call them one thing when they are something else entirely.

@ Den Lille Abe with the characterization of my fellow Americans. We are neither dull nor morons, mostly. But what many are or have been seriously brainwashed with the are the exceptionalism, entitlement to screw the rest of the world, Manifest Destiny, etc. narratives. To me, it gets down to religion. Either you are of faith and that extends to the God of Mammon ring that currently binds all the rest of the "faithful" or you are not.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 10, 2018 2:52:44 AM | 56

psychohistorian 52

Click on the link I provided. You don't have to sign up to twitter to read what people have posted there.
I have found Magnier the best for local knowledge of the middle east and the militant/terrorist groups operating in Syria, not so good analyzing/predicting US or Russian moves.
This is the link to his twitter account, rather than just the thread I linked to.
https://twitter.com/ejmalrai He is a journalist for a Kuwait news but also publishes articles at his own site. Links to articles are at his twitter account.

Magnier's site here
https://elijahjm.wordpress.com/2018/02/03/israel-pushes-lebanon-into-the-arms-of- hezbollah/

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 10, 2018 2:57:33 AM | 57

@psychohistorian 57
As I said in my previous comment"told to me, by someone who lives there" , indeed a purebred, corn fed American in government service. He himself, not a flat-earther, rather a-political (They are all bought), sensible human with 2 kids and a lovely intelligent wife (Surgeon), I do listen when he speaks about this particular subject, which he rarely does, because he is ashamed deep red.
When he is here he travels as a Canadian.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Feb 10, 2018 3:03:18 AM | 58

@ Peter AU 1 with the follow up twitter info about Magnier....thanks again

I have left the link open that you first provided and have been watching the follow on messages including the latest that says there has been a second show of force exchange of some sort.

I have been a techie since 1969 but you wouldn't know it some now days with my healing focus and I haven't the interest or bandwith for FB, Twitter and even smart phones even though I have programmed them in the past.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 10, 2018 3:06:29 AM | 59

The downing of the Israeli F-16 after it bombed installations inside Syria is a turning point.It never happened.
Finally Damascus is saying enough is enough about been bombed at Israel's whims. For the first Syria is accepting the risk of violent retaliation. Yet it is not sure if Israel will retaliate with other bombings as they risk that the next plane may be shot down inside Syria's territory.
This event could trigger either an escalation that no one wants or to the contrary let Israel work out a compromise with the Russians on the security of their borders with Syria.
The US must be scrambling now to calm down the Israelis and probably calling on Russia. What Trump does not want now is a military escalation involving Syria and Israel.

Posted by: Virgile | Feb 10, 2018 3:09:16 AM | 60

And on another note: Danish Folketinget is now prepared to allow retarded or semei retarded (Morons)i. e. people with guardians, the right to vote. good heavens!
What the hell is happening, on the bright side I might get a pilots certificate to a Jumbo if this nonsense continues! Why the fok should people have a right to express themselves politically, when the cant tell someone they need to have a dump and choose their pants instead? Let the stupid breed and they shall inherit the earth.
Even as a die hard socialist I am disgusted!

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Feb 10, 2018 3:12:35 AM | 61

Re: 62

Maybe you should propose some sort of literacy test? What could go wrong?

Posted by: Tircuit | Feb 10, 2018 3:25:14 AM | 62

Den Lille Abe @ 62: Complain that there is something undemocratic about this. Carers of mentally handicapped people effectively get to vote twice (for themselves & for the people they care for). If the govt cannot demonstrate that such a voting "reform" will not lead to abuse, then you or someone else could mount a legal challenge. Good luck!

Posted by: Jen | Feb 10, 2018 4:53:10 AM | 63

Interesting language:

Israel flights over Syria and target destruction : Self Defense
US attack on DeirEzzor SAA : Self Defense
SDF (PKK) occupation of Arab towns, Manbij, Raqqa : Self Defense

Syria has changed hands?

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 10, 2018 5:11:49 AM | 64

More interesting language:
Turkey flights over Syria and target destruction - Self Defense
Turkish occupation of Syrian ground: Self Defense
And, yes, therefore the question:
„Syria has changed hands?“

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 10, 2018 6:46:25 AM | 65

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