Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 01, 2018

Syria - Erdogan's Bashibazouk Want To Ravage Afrin

The map shows the situation in Afrin canton in north-west Syria. The Turkish army and associated Takfiri militia (green) are trying to push the Syrian Kurds (yellow) out of the area.


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What is claimed as newly Turkish conquered (light green arrows) on the map may overnight change back into Kurdish hands. This has happened several times over the last week. The fighting is quite intense (vid). The Kurds seem to have many anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM) and the Turks have all the tools of a professional army plus a fanatic militia that serves as their infantry. These (vid) Turkish sponsored Takfiris in the Afrin area seem to come from various countries. One sings a Nasheed:

"...
We were steadfast in Grozny,
We were steadfast in Dagestan.
And we took Tora Bora as our den,
And we took Tora Bora as our den.
We made glory in Afrin and in sad Aleppo.
And Afrin is calling for us: 'Oh welcome good people.' "

Grozny and Dagestan, both in the Russian Federation, were devastated in wars against Takfiris. The Tora Bora caves in east-Afghanistan were al-Qaeda's stronghold before the U.S. waged war on the country. 

Here is another video of Erdogan's henchmen:

SURA‏ @AlSuraEnglish - 4:26 PM - 1 Feb 2018
#BREAKING - (Graphic Warning) #Turkish-backed #Syrian rebels strip and mutilate dead female #Kurdish #YPG (YPJ) fighter in #Afrin as offensive against #Afrin continues.

The graphic video, available through the tweet above (or on request through me), shows a dead young woman, partially clothed in military attire, who's breasts have been cut off. Some ten men in mixed military-civil cloth are standing around her in the 13 seconds video. They can not be identified.

SURA @AlSuraEnglish
Laughter is heard before #Syrian rebel pushes her chest with his boot, another says "No don't do things like this guys". The next fighter says "Bring the other one" referring to the female #Kurdish #YPG (YPJ) fighters corpse. #Turkey has not commented on rebel behavior yet.

I am not sure these are "Syrian militia" or "Syrian rebel" as SURA says - see first video above.

These marauding groups are Erdogan's neo-ottoman version of the Bashibazouk:

A bashi-bazouk (Turkish: başıbozuk, lit. "damaged head", roughly "leaderless" or "disorderly") was an irregular soldier of the Ottoman army. Bashi-bazouk could be ethnic Turks or from other peoples of the empire such as Circassians, Arabs, Albanians, or Bosniaks.
...
They were armed and maintained by the government, but did not receive pay and did not wear uniforms or distinctive badges. They were motivated to fight mostly by expectations of plunder.
...
The bashi-bazouk were notorious for being brutal and undisciplined, thus giving the term its second, colloquial meaning of "undisciplined bandit" in many languages.

After the Syrian Army had re-taken the Al Dahur airbase last week it made a short pause. Some secondary units are cleaning up the black cauldron that is held by a few al-Qaeda and ISIS remnants. The plan for the main Syrian army force is to proceed west-north-west towards Idelb. Idleb governorate is held by al-Qaeda and an assortment of other "rebels". Their lines are currently thin as Turkey had pulled many of these out to support  its operation in Afrin.


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Three days ago Turkey sent a battalion of its regular army, protected by al-Qaeda, to set up a blocking position west of the current Syrian army line. It was an unexpected surprise move. The convoy stopped before reaching its planned destination when Syrian artillery and some aerial bombing hit its vicinity. The next day, maneuvering aimlessly in al-Qaeda country, the convoy was hit by an IED which killed one driver and wounded several soldiers. It is likely that some elements of al-Qaeda, or of other Takfiri groups, disliked the Turkish presence. The convoy then pulled back to its starting point in Turkey.

Today the main Syrian army force started to move again and took several villages north and west of its line. Its next targets are Saraqib and Maarat Al-Numan, both about 15 kilometers away from the current positions,  and then a clean-up of the whole are east of the M5 highway between Hama and Aleppo.

PS: Vanessa Beeley just published her excellent research on the highly professional propaganda support for al-Qaeda's "White Helmets": WHITE HELMETS: Channel 4, BBC, The Guardian – Architects of War

Posted by b on February 1, 2018 at 03:48 PM | Permalink

Comments
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Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 5, 2018 5:08:16 AM | 100

He was talking about lawyers defending people.

"Wer einen Angeklagten verteidigt, ist selbst böse" In der Türkei hätten Anwälte mittlerweile Angst, einen Mandanten zu verteidigen, sagt der Präsident des Deutschen Anwaltvereins. Erdoğan schaffe ein "System der Angst".

Correct translation: Who defends accused people, is evil himself. In Turkey lawyers have become afraid to defend their clients, the president of the German bar association said. Erdogan creates a system of fear.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 5, 2018 6:11:18 AM | 101

@ ConfusedPundit | Feb 5, 2018 5:08:16 AM | 100
Same for me, thanks! Not be be confused is easy. The original text of Schellenberg is here:
http://www.taz.de/!5455572/ - in German. The message is totally opposite to what you make out of it, sorry.
"Die einst freie Rechtsanwaltschaft sieht sich in der Türkei in Sippenhaft genommen. Wer einen vermeintlichen Terroristen verteidigt oder berät, wird selbst zum Terroristen erklärt.“
The once free lawyership in Turkey is now taken into collective detainment. Who defends or consults a claimed terrorist is been declared to be a terrorist himself.“
Astonishing - the oppsoite!

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 5, 2018 8:36:30 AM | 102

@ All
This means: to come back to reason the first thing is to be exact and true. If one accepts that the methods of the PKK are terroristic than one has to accept that the deeds of the Turkish state and deep state are terroristic as well.
One just has to decipher the one and only method that the Turkish stae uses to make sabotage on any possible political solution: with terrorists one cannot negiotiate! You are both terrorists so sit down and prepare a deal. The Kurds already have given up the claim of an own Kurdish state (what the Erdogan media supress; nothing about that in the media).
Not be confused is not that damned difficult.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 5, 2018 8:43:26 AM | 103

somebody | Feb 5, 2018 6:11:18 AM | 101

Here is the DW link:

https://twitter.com/dw_turkce/status/958612004989734912

The tweet has sensational wording in Turkish.
May be it is 'suppressed' in the German version? Maybe not.

"According to the Turkish mentality, those who help terrorists are terrorists"

And the link takes you to the DW site

"fear poisons judiciary system in Turkey..."

Scandalous banner titled kill Erdogan to win car in Germany
German police search Turkish passengers with dogs at Duesseldorf Airport
Germany's 'Nazi Grandma' given jail term for Holocaust 'denial'
Germany set to ban Turkish citizens from voting in death penalty
German Editor Who Exposed CIA Media Control Found Dead
The neo-Nazi murder trial revealing Germany's darkest secrets
German deputy speaker: NATO must stop Turkey support for ISIS
Germany Leaving Options Open for Arming PKK
.
.
Merkel Issues Ultimatum to Erdogan Over Access to Airbase
Turkey maintains ban on German visits to Incirlik airbase
Germany begins withdrawing troops from Turkish air base
.
The president of the German bar assoc. Ulrich Schellenberg:

Erdogan creates system of fear...

LOL. People here tell Germans to get lost (because they are hypocrites and they back Gulenists and terrorists)

BTW, it's not Erdogan, it's the people in Turkey. They approve of the govt's policies. The majority of the people do. The Germans 'love Turks' but they hate 'Erdogan' so a puppet would solve all problems I guess? Let's be honest. How can we have 'reason' under these circumstances?

People had a good laugh when they saw Mr. president's tweet, that's what I was saying.

You can defend the 'terrorists' in Turkey, I think Mr president is making too much fuss about it.

Are there any problems with the system? Yes. Were there any problems when the Gulenists were in charge of it? Yes! People died in prisons, some comitted suicide, many people suffered from Gulenists (German supported) and the Germans did nothing. That is hyporcricy, deceit, crying wolf.

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 5, 2018 12:26:55 PM | 104

@ ConfusedPundit | Feb 5, 2018 12:26:55 PM | 104

Enough as each side can say we have at least listened to the other side. To get reason one would need to want it. Too early now as it seems. This type of alt right policy needs this polarization, reason comes later, when nothing else can help. Remember 1933-1945 - and for how many people even then reason was out of sight.
„The majority of people do“ - no. Wishful thinking. That people do not speak up, how could they, by the way?, does not mean there is a majority.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 5, 2018 1:54:46 PM | 105

Hausmeister | Feb 5, 2018 1:54:46 PM | 105

It's a mess. Erdogan is hardly the guy to get us out of it. Maybe with some geniune help from the West, where there is reason.

Personally speaking, if I were on the western side I would treat Erdogan with respect. I'd put pressure on him but gently.

2-3 groups hate him and call him a dictator:

1) Gulenists with Batinite followers who couldn't speak out against the leader or else they were alienated, made redundant, made to suffer economically, jailed, murdered. They want justice from Erdogan because they still think there is nothing wrong with sniffing Gulen's underwear or kissing a copy of his hand as a ritual. They should also be able to kill the new Russian ambassador to Turkey. What Erdogan cannot understand is that these people, human beings, are our assets. You loose them to the enemy whether they are brainwashed by a CIA controlled cleric or they are put in jail. He should find a more sensible solution. He couldn't. He is vindictive. Those Ergenokon guys are vengeful too, they don't want the Gulenist to see the sunlight every again. Had I been a victim to Gulenist torture, I'd want them to rot in Tuol Sleng.

2) PKK members want to be treated with respect by Erdogan. They get no respect from their leaders, they can't speak out, and if they do, they are killed and burried somewhere in Qandil. There are many Kurdish clans. Kurds have to obey their feudal lords. PKK, a group of Marxist-Leninist freedom fighters who got 5000 trucks of heavy arms from the U.S. govt. want to sit down with Turks to talk about separation? Yes, why not, if it's possible to have a peaceful talk under these conditions. The leader of the HDP said he wanted to erect a statute of Ocalan. Why not, would he like to erect statutes of Hitler in Berlin and Jerusalem too? Or Saddam's or Assad's, or Mohammed Atta's statues in Time's Square?

3) Turkey's Opposition Leader on Long March for Justice - VOA News
However I see nothing on VOA as yet re the contender Ince's desire for Justice in his party!
I see no proper criticism in the West about what happened during the opposition party's congress!

4) There is a German school. Turkish kids are educated according to the colonial standards. A Turkish (with AKP tendencies) principal is appointed by the govt. Kids protest. Their excuse is that the they prefer the Kemalist ideology, presumably the principal hates Kemalist ideology deep inside. The problem? Normally, the Westerners don't like the Kemalist state! Or do they? How come the kids have turned in to little Kemalists ina German school? So what the heck is going on? The Devil is at work here!

My ideal world is based on reason. There is a mess here. I hope 'your friends' here know an easy way to get us out of it. I'd bet they are confused themselves.

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 5, 2018 4:06:33 PM | 106

@ ConfusedPundit | Feb 5, 2018 4:06:33 PM | 106

„4) There is a German school. Turkish kids are educated according to the colonial standards. A Turkish (with AKP tendencies) principal is appointed by the govt. Kids protest. Their excuse is that the they prefer the Kemalist ideology, presumably the principal hates Kemalist ideology deep inside. The problem? Normally, the Westerners don't like the Kemalist state! Or do they? How come the kids have turned in to little Kemalists ina German school? So what the heck is going on? The Devil is at work here!“
I read about this conflict. Take my word: those Germans, even when they work for a longer time in Turkey, are brainwashed, kind of, concerning „Kemalism“. They do not know the complete history and are not able to look at it with some distance to get a fair judgement. The Kemalist period was indeed was unusual repressive period. The ideology was based on a lie, a fiction, that after the battle of Malazgirt Turks from Central Asia came to Anatolia, which was more or less empty. So all Turkish people of today stem from those Turks. Absolute BS! But those Germans and still a majority of Turkish people believe that nonsense. Therefore those Germans at that school most likely believed in the wrong narrative that respected that Kemalism. And they mistrust everybody who intends to push the rule of the own religion by violence or better by soft means to other people. I mistrust those too. Therefore a guy like this Karaman as a religious adviser is a shock. Really! The moral of the majority must be binding for all citizens - yes, this is Muslim brothers BS and anything built on it will never ever get respect from the West. No way.
Turkey is a splendid country and since long I try to motivate people that I know to visit Turkey. This is the first time since long that the result of those efforts is - zero. People simply have no appetite to travel to a country in the status of today. In my opinion the country lost many valuable years that it will need to heal what the later Erdogan has done. I do not have the one and only brillant idea for it.


Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 5, 2018 4:27:55 PM | 107

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 5, 2018 4:06:33 PM | 106

There is a German school. Turkish kids are educated according to the colonial standards.

Don't be silly. Germany and Turkey used to be colonial partner some time ago.
Turkey has been a colonial power for a long time. Political problems now are colonial phantom pains.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 5, 2018 4:29:02 PM | 108

Hausmeister | Feb 5, 2018 4:27:55 PM | 107

The Canadian leader with colorful socks as opposed to Erdogan and his Arab wife.
If you have a very strong personality and if you don't let people correct you and put you on the right track then you end up losing in the hearts and minds of people. The image of the country follows the suit. Erdogan's friend and a superb PR guy was assassinated during the coup attempt and things started going down afterwards. I can understand your sentiments. I'm just thinking out loud, in most cases I agree with you though.

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 5, 2018 6:17:00 PM | 109

@confused pundit.. this is one of the many reasons that i as an outsider of turkey view the daily sabah as a propaganda rag!

Assad regime strikes kill 23 civilians in opposition-held Damascus suburb, monitor says

it is a very lop sided presentation to the turkish people that would help cement erdogans continued hostility towards syria... using words like regime is only a small part of it.. the U.K.-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights seems to be given a regular outlet to the daily sabah and have been carrying water for the white helmets and etc. for some time... it would be better for turkey to have proper media coverage of what is going on in syria, rather then this! of course hurriyet daily news is much less a propaganda rag, which might explain why erdogan and many in turkey wonder about it including yourself... next thing we know - erdogan will haul all the hurriyet staff off to the gulag claiming they are working for the gulen network too.. that is a crazy world for turkey that erdogan is cultivating as i see it..

Posted by: james | Feb 5, 2018 9:29:18 PM | 110

Dear james | Feb 5, 2018 9:29:18 PM | 110

Step by step please. First of all we have to be careful with our choice of words. We should avoid certain terminology and 'regime' is one of them? However, we are not talking about some Margaret Thatcher's Regime which was a sarcastic joke I heard from my English friends many years ago. Syria is not a real country. It was drawn on a map using a ruler. Assad is a regime leader in 'Syria' because he represents a minority. In the areas he controls he is an elected leader. In Syria he is a Baathist regime leader. For Erdogan Assad is a regime leader because of his secterian views. The majority of Syrian people are sunnis. Assad is a Nusayri. So what do we do now? I don't know, it's madness and so far too many people have suffered from secterianism. U-turn if you want to, those who started the war and those who fight for their beliefs are not for turning.

Here is another thing you said:

"erdogan will haul all the hurriyet staff off to the gulag claiming they are working for the gulen network too.."

The owner of Hurriyet is rumored to be the step brother of this guy: Photo

He is the richest guy in the country. His father, the MIT director of the time and the young Gulen were in the same room once upon a time, just before Gulen started his journey to date. So it's vice versa, Gulen works for the other guys. Do you get the picture?

BTW, the opposition leader you like has been busted. The party is in crisis. Your man, another Alewite, a different version of Assad's sect, appears to have been rigging the elections all along to get himself reelected. This is the 9th time? His opponent is on the news daily. He's grassing him up. There is a scandal going on in Turkey which I find more exciting than Charles Camillia affair.

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 5, 2018 10:54:05 PM | 111

@111 confused ponderer... thanks for listening! yes - regime is a poor choice of words here.. does erdogan refer to the saudi arabia regime, or the uae regime? i doubt it.. in fact, he is much like the usa in this regard - referring to syrias gov't as a regime... i am tired of these double standards..

are people only supposed to vote along religious lines? i do believe much of the middle east was at one time above this division that seems to have been created by some neo cons in washington or tel aviv... why is it that the middle east would now like to drop to this level of stupidity? i do understand why erdogan would be inclined to think this way, as he thinks there is some mileage in it....

and, it was the chp leader that was suggesting dialogue with assad, but instead erdogan thinks he has no need for this.. erdogan is walking a very fine line as i see it... he might be able to keep the media clamped down, silenced and in his back pocket, but he is unable to do the same on the world stage... again - his approach reminds me what i witness in the usa today - a very divisive one that creates many more problems then it solves...

let us know of the scandal in turkey.. is that another creation of erdogans?? it sounds like it!!

Posted by: james | Feb 5, 2018 11:42:24 PM | 112

@ ConfusedPundit | Feb 5, 2018 10:54:05 PM | 111

„Assad is a regime leader in 'Syria' because he represents a minority. In the areas he controls he is an elected leader. In Syria he is a Baathist regime leader. For Erdogan Assad is a regime leader because of his secterian views. The majority of Syrian people are sunnis. Assad is a Nusayri. So what do we do now? I don't know, it's madness and so far too many people have suffered from secterianism. U-turn if you want to, those who started the war and those who fight for their beliefs are not for turning.“

Huh, you are serious? „Assad is a regime leader in 'Syria' because he represents a minority.“? Do you want to say the guy at the top must represent the majority (religion)? In the Baathist Syria religion and politics are separated. The Sunni are the majority. Only a small fraction of them wants - like the Muslim Brothers, like Erdogan/Karaman, like ISIS, like Al Quaida - a political system based on their own rules. This was not the reason for the war in Syria but it is an important tool for external powers to keep it going on. They finance weapons, foreign mercenaries etc. - According to independent journalists, like Katrin Leukefeldt, who often visited Syria recently, Assad has a huge acceptance in Syria, ca. 70-80%, figures a guy like Erdogan can only dream of. https://www.rubikon.news/artikel/was-unseren-blick-auf-den-syrien-krieg-trubt - sorry, German text. A reasonable solution: just to stop foreign support for those groups in Syria. Without weapons and violence these MuslimBrothers/AKP-type groups have not the slightest chance in the Syrian society. Many critiques of Assad are there, of course, with good arguments. But that can be settled in peace. It would not re-install theformer Sunni elite, though. These people are rich enough and live outside of Syria since long.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 6, 2018 5:42:55 AM | 113

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 5, 2018 10:54:05 PM | 111

How can you trust Turkish media when journalists have to be afraid to tell what they know?

Why should religion be connected to public office?

The difference between Syrian and Turkish dictatorships are beginning to be minor.

At least Syrian rulers are strictly non sectarian, no matter their own sect.

Posted by: somebody | Feb 6, 2018 5:53:18 AM | 114

Hausmeister | Feb 6, 2018 5:42:55 AM | 113

I value your views. They carry a cumulative weight of 10 tigers in the jungle.
You also spend time reading and responding to my posts. You have my respect.

Here is my mental cosmos:

US: Our YPG partners
US: Our Turkish ally

Erdogan: We respect Syrian sovereignty
Erdogan: Syrian regime...

Each statement is aimed at a different group fighting in the field. Erdogan's policy: 'tit for tat'. The first statements are the real intentions of both parties. IMHO.

Erdogan wants to liberate Manbij from terrorists (US, Coalition for Occupation, PKK) and return it to rightful owners (Manbij is an Arab city, like Raqqa and Deir Zor and Afrin)

"Erdogan says U.S. has 'calculations' against Turkey, Iran, Russia in Syria"

Pan-regional allience?

Erdogan/Karaman and ISIS/AQ are not on the same side. The latter group belongs to the Israel-US-EU allience and are used for PRS purposes. ISIS members are not in Syria anymore. They are in Afghanistan, Canada etc. undergoing some recycling process. USrael-EU are bringing in more heavy arms to the region on the Daesh pretext. Typical US BS. If we were to believe the Americans we would have to accept that there are no stars on the US flag. Afrin received loads of weapons from the CFO, Coalition for Occupation, even Ospreys got involved in deliveries.

Erdogan is falsely accused of helping ISIS/AQ (Turks killed 3600 ISIS members and how many were killed by the PKK I wonder? None?) Erdogan is also being accused of helping the FSA. 1) The FSA = Syrian residents. 2) Russia, Iran, CFO all have their proxies, regime soldiers, Hezbollah and PKK respectively, but Erdogan's proxy bothers everyone? Oh, come on!

I have already given my personal thoughts about the matter, I prefer peace. The CFO must leave the region asap and if possible the US govt should face a trial in La Hague along with Germany who sold heavy weapons to KRG to cover up delivery of half of them to the PKK, the Swedes, the Belgians, the French... Well, La Hague? I think the court should be relocated to Ankara which respects international laws more than the EU countries and US. LOL, strange but true. IMHO.

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 6, 2018 8:20:19 AM | 115

Dear somebody | Feb 6, 2018 5:53:18 AM | 114

Tillerson and National Security Advisor McMaster are on their way to Ankara.

Trump calls Erdogan, Mattis says hello, Putin drops by, May felt like tasting some Turkish tea, and more.

Who spilt the milk do you reckon?

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 6, 2018 8:59:26 AM | 116

ConfusedPundit

Iran and her proxies were invited in to Syria so your equivalence is misleading.

Erdogan respects Syrian sovereignty? Please explain what is going on at al Eis. Erdogan is a serial offender wrt Syrian sovereignty as Turkey also has traded ISIS oil and allowed transit by foreign fighters, among other things.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 6, 2018 12:05:06 PM | 117

@115 confused pundit quote "Erdogan is falsely accused of helping ISIS/AQ (Turks killed 3600 ISIS members and how many were killed by the PKK I wonder?"

i have to agree with @117 jackrabbit confused pundit.. see his last line.. turkey has been playing a double game, as has the usa... these double games are easy to see thru if you aren't being inoculated by a media that is in the hands of the person playing these double games.. these isis/alnusra/alqaeda mercenaries seem to change allegiance at the drop of a larger sum of cash.. erdogan continues to fancy the idea of helping to create some larger sunnistan with his saudi/uae and egyptian buddies... the religious pretext for murdering off others of a different religion is something created in neo-con head office, but erdogan has been a sucker to buy into it..

Posted by: james | Feb 6, 2018 12:58:16 PM | 118

confused pundit.. read this today to get a better idea of what i am talking about..

Posted by: james | Feb 6, 2018 1:03:52 PM | 119

see in particular b's comment to the post in the comments section of that article i link to..

Posted by: james | Feb 6, 2018 1:07:42 PM | 120

http://www.merip.org/mero/mero020418#3

The Story Behind the Rise of Turkey’s Ulema

Posted by: james | Feb 6, 2018 1:19:02 PM | 121

Dear Jackrabbit & james,

I think this article sums up his intentions.


‘Sleeping giant is now awakened’

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkey-will-hand-manbij-to-arab-owners-after-expelling-ypg-erdogan-126863

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 6, 2018 2:28:46 PM | 122

@ james | Feb 6, 2018 1:19:02 PM | 121

"Ceren Lord
Bio:
Ceren Lord is a Sasakawa Peace Foundation Fellow and Research Officer in Middle East Studies, the School of Interdisciplinary Area Studies, University of Oxford"
Important to know before guys come and claim this is just another kind of anti-Turkish propaganda. Read this and compare recent experiences with DITIB in Germany will show that it is no propaganda.

@ b
Congratulations! This is the right kind of sources for this blog.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 6, 2018 2:38:05 PM | 123

@122 confused pundit - does he mean the al nusra people? are they the ''''rightful'''' owners of manbij???

Posted by: james | Feb 6, 2018 2:58:54 PM | 124

james | Feb 6, 2018 2:58:54 PM | 124

Manbij has always been an Arabic town. Like Raqqa. It is now occupied by a) Terrorists b) Kurds c) coalition partners d) SDF. Pick whichever you want, they have no choice but to leave the area. Or keep occupying it. Better not to call them Kurds because they'll look like invaders, agressors, looters, bandits. The US will have to pack up and leave too. The sooner is the better.

We don't agree with this map drawn by 1930 French Mandate

But even so, match it with the current map of the region and you'll see that Syria is under occupation by innocent Kurds or Terrorists (you pick, I mean you in general) along with their puppetmasters.

AfrinOp will pave the way for the return of 500.000 Syrians (they are in Turkey)
ManbijOp will help the Arabs, Turkmen, Kurds, and all non-PKK parties return to their homes. There are more than 3.5m Syrians in Turkey. Statistically some will settle in Turkey and will refuse to go back. That's bonus for Neo-Ottoman Erdogan.

1930 French Mandate - Syria Map

Lie After Lie: What Colin Powell Knew About Iraq 15 Years Ago, and What He Told the U.N.

Kurdish Terrorists

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 6, 2018 3:36:00 PM | 125

@ ConfusedPundit | Feb 6, 2018 3:36:00 PM | 125
Thanks again! At least we can see now 2 quite distinct narratives. But both have conflicting happy ends. The scripting team must work harder. The text of Ceren Lord is great. She does not just register what a person says. She can smell what the person has meant. If the Turkish people really would like to live in such a, hmmh, Asiatic shaped country what can one do? Trouble is: more than 50% do not want it. Therefore this snail narcotic like re-islamization. Till it seems irerversible, Muslim Brother style.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 6, 2018 4:01:42 PM | 126

@125 cconfused pundit... thanks, but i am curious.. is it only okay if the terrorists who are being used by erdogan here continue to have a shelf life in syria? you are opposed to the ones on the kurd side in afrin, but say nothing of the ones on the turkish side in all of north western syria.. why is that? thanks..

Posted by: james | Feb 6, 2018 7:05:54 PM | 127

Dear james | Feb 6, 2018 7:05:54 PM | 127

We have roughly 4 proxies.
Iranian Hezbollah, US&EU PKK, Russian regime fighters, Turkish controlled FSA.

Turkish FSA are Syrian people. Locals.
US&EU PKK = some locals some foreigners. (In Afrin 1/3 are foreigners)
Hezbollah = some locals some foreigners
Russian proxy = regime soldiers.

Assad's troops have every right to be there. It's his country. The Turkish FSA have every right to be there. Maybe some Hezbollah fighters too. Syrian Arabs have every right to be there.

The rest should leave the war zone. Then drop the guns. But would they?

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 7, 2018 2:23:50 PM | 128

@ ConfusedPundit | Feb 7, 2018 2:23:50 PM | 128

"The rest should leave the war zone. Then drop the guns."
The equation does not fit yet. Turkey shouldn't have pushed around the Kurds too much. Some of them are there now. I mean: what would you say if you introduce yourself to me as a Turk and then I tell you confidently that you exrete nonsense. As something „Turkish“ does not exist, that simple. - Fiction? No. Reality in Turkey for decades. It is not easy to convince people that they do not exit. Tough job.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 7, 2018 2:59:26 PM | 129

@ ConfusedPundit | Feb 7, 2018 2:23:50 PM | 128

"The rest should leave the war zone. Then drop the guns."
The equation does not fit yet. Turkey shouldn't have pushed around the Kurds too much. Some of them are there now. I mean: what would you say if you introduce yourself to me as a Turk and then I tell you confidently that you exrete nonsense. As something „Turkish“ does not exist, that simple. - Fiction? No. Reality in Turkey for decades. It is not easy to convince people that they do not exit. Tough job.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Feb 7, 2018 3:00:34 PM | 130

@128 confused pundit...

i think there are more proxies then what you list, although maybe you are just referring to the afrin area?

turkish fsa, is actually tfsa! turkey has allowed a number of mercenaries into syria, from various countries.. now, maybe it wasn't intentional, but it is the reason that various isis members, or accused isis / al qaeda types have been captured inside turkey... where do they come from? - pakistan, saudi arabia, sudan, all the countries in and around russia - uzbekistan, turkmenistan, tajikistan, afganistan and etc. etc.... so - i don't personally believe erdogans idea that it is only syrian people that are a part of the tfsa.. i wish it was true what you say, but i don't see it that way!!

but, i do like how you are thinking this generally... the usa-uk - ksa - israel and all the various countries including turkey that have been gunning for regime change since day 1 could all leave, and i would be very happy... but that ain't gonna happen here, as there is a real interest on the part of some of these countries - whether they admit it or not - to start ww3 in your backyard...

Posted by: james | Feb 7, 2018 3:36:39 PM | 131

Dear james,

I don't know. We'll see soon. TR is preparing to take the United States of America to court. International tribune or something.

The US is helping the terrorists. A lot of Turkish citizens died. We'll see what's going to happen sooner or later. Fingers closed. I don't think the US propaganda for damage control purposes will work any longer.

As for the WW3, what can I say? I hope it doesn't happen but to me it looks like the Turks are up for the challenge because we are under too much pressure. We can't take it anymore.

Posted by: ConfusedPundit | Feb 7, 2018 4:05:52 PM | 132

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