Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 26, 2018

State Department Troll Farm Receives Huge Cash Infusion

The U.S. State Department will increase its online trolling capabilities and up its support for meddling in other countries. The Hill reports:

The State Department is launching a $40 million initiative to crack down on foreign propaganda and disinformation amid widespread concerns about future Russian efforts to interfere in elections.

The department announced Monday that it signed a deal with the Pentagon to transfer $40 million from the Defense Department’s coffers to bolster the Global Engagement Center, an office set up at State during the Obama years to expose and counter foreign propaganda and disinformation.

The professed reason for the new funding is the alleged but unproven "Russian meddling" in the U.S. election campaign. U.S. Special Counsel Mueller indicted 13 Russians for what is claimed to be interference but which is likely mere commercial activity.

The announcement by the State Department explains that this new money will not only be used for measures against foreign trolling but to actively meddle in countries abroad:

Under Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs Steve Goldstein said the transfer of funds announced today reiterates the United States’ commitment to the fight.

“This funding is critical to ensuring that we continue an aggressive response to malign influence and disinformation and that we can leverage deeper partnerships with our allies, Silicon Valley, and other partners in this fight,” said Under Secretary Goldstein. “It is not merely a defensive posture that we should take, we also need to be on the offensive.

The mentioning of Silicon Valley is of interest. The big Silicon Valley companies Google, Facebook and Twitter were heavily involved in the U.S. election campaign. The companies embedded people within the campaigns to advise them how to reach a maximum trolling effect:

While the companies call it standard practice to work hand-in-hand with high-spending advertisers like political campaigns, the new research details how the staffers assigned to the 2016 candidates frequently acted more like political operatives, doing things like suggesting methods to target difficult-to-reach voters online, helping to tee up responses to likely lines of attack during debates, and scanning candidate calendars to recommend ad pushes around upcoming speeches.

In May 2016 the Hillary Clinton campaign even set up her own troll farm:

Hillary Clinton's well-heeled backers have opened a new frontier in digital campaigning, one that seems to have been inspired by some of the Internet's worst instincts. Correct the Record, a super PAC coordinating with Clinton's campaign, is spending some $1 million to find and confront social media users who post unflattering messages about the Democratic front-runner.

In effect, the effort aims to spend a large sum of money to increase the amount of trolling that already exists online.

Clinton is quite experienced in such issues. In 2009, during protests in Iran, then Secretary of State Clinton pushed Twitter to defer maintenance of its system to "help" the protesters. In 2010 USAid, under the State Department set up a Twitter-like service to meddle in Cuba.

The foreign policy advisor of Hillery Clinton's campaign, Laura Rosenberger, initiated and runs the Hamilton68 project which falsely explains any mentioning of issues disliked by its neo-conservative backers as the result of nefarious "Russian meddling".

The State Department can build on that and other experience.

Since at least 2011 the U.S. military is manipulating social media via sock puppets and trolls:

A Californian corporation has been awarded a contract with United States Central Command (Centcom), which oversees US armed operations in the Middle East and Central Asia, to develop what is described as an "online persona management service" that will allow one US serviceman or woman to control up to 10 separate identities based all over the world.
The Centcom contract stipulates that each fake online persona must have a convincing background, history and supporting details, and that up to 50 US-based controllers should be able to operate false identities from their workstations "without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries".

It was then wisely predicted that other countries would follow up:

The discovery that the US military is developing false online personalities – known to users of social media as "sock puppets" – could also encourage other governments, private companies and non-government organisations to do the same.

Israel is long known for such information operations in which its paid trolls not only comment on issues on social media but actively manipulate Wikipedia entries. Such astroturfing has since become a common tool in commercial marketing campaigns.

With the new money the State Department will expand its Global Engagement Center (GEC) which is running "public diplomacy", aka propaganda, abroad:

The Fund will be a key part of the GEC’s partnerships with local civil society organizations, NGOs, media providers, and content creators to counter propaganda and disinformation. The Fund will also drive the use of innovative messaging and data science techniques.

Separately, the GEC will initiate a series of pilot projects developed with the Department of Defense that are designed to counter propaganda and disinformation. Those projects will be supported by Department of Defense funding.

This money will be in addition to the large funds the CIA traditionally spends on manipulating foreign media:

“We’ve been doing this kind of thing since the C.I.A. was created in 1947,” said Mr. Johnson, now at the University of Georgia. “We’ve used posters, pamphlets, mailers, banners — you name it. We’ve planted false information in foreign newspapers. We’ve used what the British call ‘King George’s cavalry’: suitcases of cash.”
C.I.A. officials told Mr. Johnson in the late 1980s that “insertions” of information into foreign news media, mostly accurate but sometimes false, were running at 70 to 80 a day.

Part of the new State Department money will be used to provide grants. If online trolling or sock puppetry is your thing, you may want to  apply now.

Posted by b on February 26, 2018 at 02:02 PM | Permalink

next page »

"to find and confront social media users who post unflattering messages about the Democratic front-runner"

I call these social media watchers rather than trolls. Rather than simply trying to disrupt any and all social media threads they don't like, social media watchers look for comments or comment threads that are disparaging or damaging to their employer.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 26, 2018 2:40:29 PM | 1

#2 @Peter AU 1 - I would say the language "to find and CONFRONT" sounds pretty much like troll behavior.

With regard to the larger issue, it seems that the US is getting more and more like its allies Ukraine (drives out any press concerned with printing the truth, relies on a bombastic and entirely false narrative to try and convince its hapless citizens that all is great and everything is Russia's fault) and Israel (an early leader in manipulating online info as b states).

Posted by: WorldBLee | Feb 26, 2018 2:49:32 PM | 2

That $40 million will probably be pissed away on a couple sweetheart contracts to Tillerson friends and nobody will see a difference. US State Department propaganda programs, labeled as "public diplomacy" and other monikers, have been around for a long time but haven't been executed very well.
From the State Dept. historian office, 2013: . .(excerpt):

Public Diplomacy Is Still in Its Adolescent Stage in the State Department, etc.
. . . The process of convergence has been evolutionary. Secretary Powell grasped the power of the information revolution, reallocated positions and resources from traditional diplomatic posting to new areas and recognized the power of satellite television to move publics and constrain governments even in authoritarian regimes. Secretary Rice forwarded this reconceptualization under the rubric of “Transformational Diplomacy,” which sought to help people transform their own lives and the relationship between state and society. Secretary Clinton continued the theme under the concept of “Smart Power.” “Person-to-person diplomacy in today’s work is as important as what we do in official meetings in national capitals across the globe,” Clinton said in 2010.The work done by PD officials in Arab Spring countries beginning in 2011 was as much about capacity-building as advocating U.S. policies or directly trying to explain American culture. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 26, 2018 2:51:50 PM | 3

I am retired and can use some extra change....just kidding!!!....

Posted by: notlurking | Feb 26, 2018 2:55:14 PM | 4

Prior efforts were targeted more at traditional news outlets, this is just an expansion into social media along the lines of previous work, example A being the Rendon Group in Iraq, etc.

If it sounds like a PR monkey banging away on a regurgitated theme, it probably is. For example, the endless repetition in US media about “Syrian chemical weapons attacks” with no on-the-ground supporting evidence is typical of a Rendon Group disinformation campaign; so then they hire a hundred trolls to post outraged comments about ‘Syrian chemical weapons use’ in comment sections and on twitter; then they hire some State Department intern to write a book about the horrors of the Assad regime, and at the end they collect their $10 million paycheck.

Tediousness, defined.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 26, 2018 3:18:15 PM | 5

WorldBLee 2

Media watchers target specific comments or comment threads, in the case stated by b, those disparaging or damaging to Clinton.
What I term trolls target blogs or social media accounts that are considered targets, no matter the content of a particular article or comment thread. Social media media watchers are a little more specialized than trolls and look for specific content.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 26, 2018 3:19:30 PM | 6

P.S. it’s funny that you can find out what these clowns are up to by looking for job listings and salary reports:

The Rendon Group Social Media Specialist Salary | Glassdoor
Average [monthly] salaries for The Rendon Group Social Media Specialist: $2,520. The Rendon Group salary trends based on salaries posted anonymously by The Rendon Group employees.

Talk about a soul-destroying job. Right up there with Wikipedia page editor.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 26, 2018 3:23:52 PM | 7

nonsense factory 8. Money looks good. Plenty of people that dont give a shit about their soul will take it up.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 26, 2018 3:27:48 PM | 8

(((Steve Goldstein))) (((Laura Rosenberger)))

If only I had a coincidence detector...

Posted by: Alieu | Feb 26, 2018 3:28:14 PM | 9

@7 peter

I see what you are alluding to, but the only problem with it is that, irrespective of the differing definitions, at heart, these infiltrators are a disrupting force on the message boards, whether paid to be or not. Their medium is disruption and obfuscation. I tried to wade into the neoliberal viper's den at un the past to post "alt-right" stuff and was quickly attacked by multiple avatars.

In essence, one troll disrupts because he has a need for recognition, and the latter disrupts for money. Both are netgain for the troll and loss for the rest of us.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 26, 2018 4:08:38 PM | 10

The hypocrisy of the U$A continues to be staggering..

If the collective IQ's of the general public approached double digits, the disinformation and propaganda afoot, couldn't gain much traction.

As comedian Richard Pryor once said, " Who you gonna' believe, the propagandists, or your lying eyes."

Turn off your I phones, and think a little.

Posted by: ben | Feb 26, 2018 4:09:30 PM | 11

thanks b... troll farms looks like a good name for it... farming for the empire.. they could call it that too.. russia as trend setter, lol.. i don't think so!

speaking of troll farms, i see max blumenthal came out with some 'about time' comments on the sad kettle of fish called 'democracy now'... here is his tweet - "If @democracynow is going to push the neocon project of regime change in Syria so relentlessly and without debate, it should drop the high minded literary NPR aesthetic and just host Nikki Haley for a friendly one-on-one #EstablishmentNow
7:07 AM - Feb 25, 2018 "

money for propaganda... that was back in 1984 - we have progressed from orwells version of reality to a new one where reality is what you make of it... meanwhile there will be more dead people that the sponsors of these troll farms, could care less about... although they will frame it - 180% of that...

Posted by: james | Feb 26, 2018 4:19:32 PM | 12

The silver lining here is that the state dept. is in a sense admitting that there is nothing "in the pipe" relating to outright censorship whether through nefarious agreements between ISP providers and the IC via the repeal of net neutrality.

$40 mil is a lot for liberal college graduates however.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 26, 2018 4:19:33 PM | 13

Nonsense Factory @ 8, Peter AU 1 @ 9: There are plenty of communities in rural Australia who'd be glad to have troll farms paying that sort of money (even as Australian dollars - 1 Australian dollar being worth about US$0.76 at this time of posting) a month. Real farmers could do trolling on the side during slow seasons of the year and make some money.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 26, 2018 4:20:59 PM | 14

What we need are some Mole Trolls, or maybe that's Troll Moles--double agents if you will that work for 6-12 months recording 100% of all they do then reveal it all in an expose.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 26, 2018 4:26:45 PM | 15

Yes, but despite their efforts Bad Vlad will be re elected in April by plenty of russkies.
Massive arms program and weapon modernization will go on and in three to 4 more years will be operational almost across the board. Ultrasonic missiles, planes, unmanned war vehicles and multi purpose subs and an operational ocean route thru the Artic.Cutting by a half the ship voyage time.
And will not be dragged to any big war as he has repeatedly said.
By the end of his term, China will have the upper hand worldwide in a few further fields like science, tech, a new generation of satellites.And there´s the economy.
The prospects for the anglozio empire are any good.

Posted by: augusto | Feb 26, 2018 5:14:24 PM | 16

Getting ready for mid-terms.   It's going to be interesting to see if the Democrats get wiped off the map.   They should be able to hire quite a few people for $40 million.   Don't be surprised if they deploy AI in the first wave, then follow up with a real person.

ben @13:

Turn off your I phones, and think a little.

ROFL   After wandering aimlessly in the mall with Her Majesty over the weekend, I'm not sure if that's even possible now.

Posted by: Ian | Feb 26, 2018 5:21:58 PM | 17

Hillary Clinton sat on a wall,
Hillary Clinton had a great fall;
All the DNC stooges and all her trolls
Couldn't put her campaign again on the roll.

[department of lame rhymes]

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 26, 2018 5:23:20 PM | 18

I am retired and can use some extra change....just kidding!!!....

Posted by: notlurking | Feb 26, 2018 2:55:14 PM | 5

Foolish human, who needs the likes of you! Regards, Chief Bot

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 26, 2018 5:29:18 PM | 19

"The big Silicon Valley companies Google, Facebook and Twitter were heavily involved in the U.S. election campaign. The companies embedded people within the campaigns to advise them how to reach a maximum trolling effect:"

It went much further than that . Google actually tweaked its algorithms to alter search recommendations in favor of the Clinton campaign. A comparative analysis of search engines Google, Bing and Yahoo showed that Google differed significantly from the other two in producing search recommendations relevant to Clinton.

Google Manipulates Search Results To Favor Hillary Clinton - Jimmy Dore

But , but, but...Russia!!!

Nothing to see her folks. Carry on.

Posted by: pantaraxia | Feb 26, 2018 6:42:36 PM | 20

The entire U.S. MSM is a F'ing troll farm, disinformation, Orwellian world on steroids. The U.S. public is fed a constant never ending stream of complete Bull sh**, self serving crap. How to stop it is the only question, to stop the impunity with which these criminals like Bush and Trump and Obama and Mattis lie with their pants on fire and .....they all suck .01% dick.

Posted by: che | Feb 26, 2018 6:47:53 PM | 21

@8 Nonsense Factory

Ahmed Nafeez exposed The Rendon Group and the Pentagon's Highlands Forum a few years ago.

And then there's today's nonsense.

Are You a Russian Troll?

Posted by: Fec | Feb 26, 2018 8:19:04 PM | 22

It's surprising to see the NYT admit the US does it, too. The alt media has been all over this including Corbett's recent video with the Woolsey interview with Fox News where he laughs it off and then says it was for a good cause.

Posted by: Curtis | Feb 26, 2018 8:44:21 PM | 23

Hillary's Troll Farm = Lipstick on a pig.

Posted by: Curtis | Feb 26, 2018 8:47:09 PM | 24

From Nafeez Ahmed:

Two days before 9/11, Condoleeza Rice received the draft of a formal National Security Presidential Directive that Bush was expected to sign immediately. The directive contained a comprehensive plan to launch a global war on al-Qaeda, including an “imminent” invasion of Afghanistan to topple the Taliban. The directive was approved by the highest levels of the White House and officials of the National Security Council, including of course Rice and Rumsfeld. The same NSC officials were simultaneously running the Dhabol Working Group to secure the Indian power plant deal for Enron’s Trans-Afghan pipeline project. The next day, one day before 9/11, the Bush administration formally agreed on the plan to attack the Taliban.

Posted by: Fec | Feb 26, 2018 8:51:55 PM | 25

From Nafeez Ahmed:

The Highlands Forum has thus played a leading role in defining the Pentagon’s entire conceptualization of the ‘war on terror.’ Irving Wladawsky-Berger, a retired IMB vice president who co-chaired the President’s Information Technology Advisory Committee from 1997 to 2001, describedhis experience of one 2007 Forum meeting in telling terms:

“Then there is the War on Terror, which DoD has started to refer to as the Long War, a term that I first heard at the Forum. It seems very appropriate to describe the overall conflict in which we now find ourselves. This is a truly global conflict… the conflicts we are now in have much more of the feel of a battle of civilizations or cultures trying to destroy our very way of life and impose their own.”

Posted by: Fec | Feb 26, 2018 9:01:10 PM | 26

Posted by: Fec | Feb 26, 2018 8:19:04 PM | 23

Yeah well since the writer of the 'quiz' exposes themself as bein a troll of the worst sort there is nothing to be said. I'm currently attempting to ingest only those newstories where the publisher provides space for feedback from readers since if a story is truthful it should be able to withstand challenge. yeah riight cos that means there's bugger all out there anymore. The biggest 'win' populism has had this far is in driving all feedback off all sites with a readership of more than a few hundred. Many of those that do allow feedback only permit humans with credentialed facebook or google accounts to indulge and the comments are only visible to similarly logged in types. That tells us a lot about the lack of faith the corporate media actually have in the nonsense they publish.

Of course 'trolls' are the ones held to be the guilty for causing this but if you actually watch what happens in a feedback column such as the rare occasions when the graun still permits CIF comments it isn't the deliberately offensive arseholes spouting the usual cliches who get deleted, it is those who put forward a considered argument which details why the original writer has reached a faulty conclusion.

We all know this yet it seems as though none of us are prepared to confront it properly as the censorship it is.
IMO media outlets which continually lie or at least distort the truth to advance a particular agenda need to be called to account.
Massed pickets outside newsrooms would be a good way cos as much as media hate us loudmouths who won't swallow their bromides, they like their competition even less. A decently organised picket of NYT, WaPo or the Graun would be news in every other spineless, propagandising & slug-featured media entity.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 26, 2018 9:01:42 PM | 27

Cant wait to see the big new shiny gold GEC logo, AMC & GMC anyone? ;)

Posted by: Lozion | Feb 26, 2018 9:09:10 PM | 28

@ 28 Debsisdead

Said troll was published in Richmond and God only knows who else picked it up. I refuted it in the comments as best I could, also excerpting MOA. Regardless:

From Ahmed Nafeez:

Among Rendon’s activities was the creation of Ahmed Chalabi’s Iraqi National Congress (INC) on behalf of the CIA, a group of Iraqi exiles tasked with disseminating propaganda, including much of the false intelligence about WMD. That process had begun concertedly under the administration of George H W. Bush, then rumbled along under Clinton with little fanfare, before escalating after 9/11 under George W. Bush. Rendon thus played a large role in the manufacture of inaccurate and false news stories relating to Iraq under lucrative CIA and Pentagon contracts — and he did so in the period running up to the 2003 invasion as an advisor to Bush’s National Security Council: the same NSC, of course, that planned the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, achieved with input from Enron executives who were simultaneously engaging the Pentagon Highlands Forum.

Posted by: Fec | Feb 26, 2018 9:17:57 PM | 29

From Ahmed Nafeez:

Mass surveillance and data-mining also now has a distinctive operational purpose in assisting with the lethal execution of special operations, selecting targets for the CIA’s drone strike kill lists via dubious algorithms, for instance, along with providing geospatial and other information for combatant commanders on land, air and sea, among many other functions. A single social media post on Twitter or Facebook is enough to trigger being placed on secret terrorism watch-lists solely due to a vaguely defined hunch or suspicion; and can potentially even land a suspect on a kill list.

Posted by: Fec | Feb 26, 2018 9:26:22 PM | 30

From Ahmed Nafeez:

In 2011, the Forum hosted two DARPA-funded scientists, Antonio and Hanna Damasio, who are principal investigators in the ‘Neurobiology of Narrative Framing’ project at the University of Southern California. Evoking Zalman’s emphasis on the need for Pentagon psychological operations to deploy “empathetic influence,” the new DARPA-backed project aims to investigate how narratives often appeal “to strong, sacred values in order to evoke an emotional response,” but in different ways across different cultures

This goes a long way toward explaining what is occurring in Hollywood and Nashville.

Posted by: Fec | Feb 26, 2018 9:40:37 PM | 31

Finally, Michael D'Andrea, the CIA Dark Prince currently in charge of Iran, can be presumed to be using all these tools among insurgents such as Pahlavists toward fomenting revolution on behalf of Israeli Zionists.

Posted by: Fec | Feb 26, 2018 10:06:58 PM | 32

@ Fec who wrote:
This goes a long way toward explaining what is occurring in Hollywood and Nashville.

Thanks for that but I keep trying to bring folks back to the elite and their tools behind the curtain

Think about the ‘Neurobiology of Narrative Framing’ project that has gone on for centuries keeping the elite in ownership of global finance tools. Read the TINA comments at MoA even. Why is there never a discussion of the Pro/Con of public vs private finance? It is only the lifeblood of all economic interaction after all.....sigh

The Troll Farming has been going on for centuries now but the characterizations change.......never talk about social organization basic tenets......have faith instead

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 26, 2018 10:19:33 PM | 33

Posted by: C I eh? | Feb 26, 2018 10:13:08 PM | 34

Hmm may hafta switch gigs. The Popular Front for the Liberation of DebsIsDead (PFLODID) has been payin' shit for quite a while now.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 26, 2018 10:25:22 PM | 34

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 26, 2018 10:19:33 PM | 35

You're welcome, and agreed, we're rotten with public/private partnerships around here.

Posted by: Fec | Feb 26, 2018 10:28:28 PM | 35

The State Department Press Briefing on February 22 included a plea by the spokesperson for propaganda assistance.

I would urge all of you as journalists – there’s no one who has a bigger megaphone than each of you. I know many news organizations are interested in other things right now. I know you all are passionate about foreign affairs. You’re all passionate about world events and humanitarian situations across the world. There is no better advocate for what is going on and shining a spotlight on the horrors that are taking place in eastern Ghouta than each of you. If I can implore you – and I know you do this anyway as part of your jobs – talking to your editors, talking to your producers, saying this is important, this is something we’ve got to cover. Now is the time to cover it. So many people have come to us saying, “What is the United States doing about the situation in eastern Ghouta?” What can we do? The answer to that is we can shine a spotlight on that. That is what I’m attempting to do right now; that is what the government is attempting to do. And I hope you will be a part of that, shining the spotlight on that.

I want to thank Elise. Last night, she had included me in seeing a documentary. I’m not supposed to encourage people to go see things or do some things, but I don’t care. I’m going to break that rule, because I think it’s just that important. A documentary last night called the “Last Men in Aleppo,” and it was about the situation in Aleppo, Syria. And in there you saw the humanitarian disaster. You saw the selfless men who were leaving their families every day to go try to save those who were buried in the rubble or who had been victims of attacks. That situation is being replicated today in eastern Ghouta. We don’t have to see this happen this way. Shine a spotlight on it. Let the world know exactly what is happening. We will back you in this. I will assist you in any way I can in helping you to shine a spotlight on this important issue.

Elise, go right ahead. And I’d also like to mention one of your other colleagues, who moderated the panel yesterday from [Saudi-owned] Al Arabiya. So she did a great job. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 26, 2018 11:31:24 PM | 36

Minnesota State Statutes infiltrated by foreign country with 2017 law requiring certification of loyalty to Is ral Minnesota Statute 16C.053 CONTRACTS WITH VENDORS WHO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST ISRAEL PROHIBITED.

Bend the knee.

Posted by: Johnny Law | Feb 26, 2018 11:53:07 PM | 37

@JL 40
Is there any estimate of how many Minnesota vendors are involved in refusing contracts with the government of Israel? Anyhow, thanks to Minnesota State Representative Eric Lucero: "Erum [his wife] and I have been blessed with the opportunity to visit Israel twice. Our 2016 visit to Israel included visiting the Knesset and meeting with Knesset Member Oded Forer who is also a member of the Knesset Christian Allies Caucus. Knesset Member Forer explained to us defeating BDS is a high priority in Israel because BDS is considered a threat to Israel’s national security.". . .here

So Israel influence penetrates into the Minnesota House. Who knew.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 27, 2018 12:18:29 AM | 38

Just to reinforce why BDS is an essential tool for help Palestinians level the playing field, and something which should give the alleged xtians of Minnesota pause, today's Palestine Chronicle has a story about why the xtian church built on the site of jesus' tomb has closed its doors in protest at the zionists' latest scam to confiscate land from Palestinians, by taxing all xtian churches.
Both the central government and the Jerusalem local government are working in conjunction on this to squeeze non-Jewish landowners out.

The central government is passing a law ostensibly to protect the property rights of people who have bought land from xtian churches. The land has been sold the new owners have title and there is no need for any new laws but the bibi fraudsters are using that as a flimsy excuse to pass a law which enables the state to expropriate any land owned by xtian churches. Meanwhile the local government has retroactively decided that churches are liable to pay property tax on all land holdings. The plan there is to force the xtians to sell their land to cover the costs of the massive bills for tax they have just been hit with.

The same article points out that last year an Israeli military court ruled that settler groups have the right to seize two hotels and a large building in the Old City of Jerusalem which belongs to the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate.

These so-called xtians in amerika badly need to wake the fuck up to fully comprehend exactly how just like the muslim population xtian Palestinians are being viciously oppressed by an innately racist state.
Quoting again from the article:

" The church leaders said:

“This reminds us all of laws of a similar nature which were enacted against the Jews during dark periods in Europe.”

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 27, 2018 3:27:53 AM | 39

In line with the thread's topic, it took considerable effort to find the Chronicle story. Even Yandex which I normally use, threw up nothing when I searched based on 'jerusalem church of the holy sepulcher'. A lot of stories about tourism and jesus tomb but nothing about the churches' closure. Must have been deemed fake news by the zionist in charge of algorithms eh.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 27, 2018 3:35:17 AM | 40

41 Must have been deemed fake news by the zionist in charge of algorithms eh.

Many detours to nowhere and roadblocks now being placed on the information highway.
Subjects I researched in 2013 on duckduckgo no longer show a result, no matter the search term used. Yandex, last time I looked brings up results on first search term.

The algorithm dark age.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 27, 2018 4:13:21 AM | 41

Jen 15

Yep. It seems money talks for most who have commitments to meet, bills to pay, leaving them no time for looking into the rubbish we are fed.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Feb 27, 2018 4:24:46 AM | 42

Debsisdead | Feb 27, 2018 3:27:53 AM | 40

Thanks for that.
Ever vigilant must be the byword of justice.
BDS must be foremost in this issue of Palestinian Justice.
If BDS weren't working, Israel wouldn't be so rabid against it.
BDS go!

Posted by: V. Arnold | Feb 27, 2018 5:17:40 AM | 43

Debisdead @41
Hard to find any more except on non-controlled sites.
Here is the Press TV,
The other is a "Haaretz" article (under pay wall so I didn't include it).
It seems like the "disappearances" are restricted to mainline "western" sites. But it says something when the cover-up is of an discriminatory anti-christian act. The last to know are those concerned.
Problem is we don't know what ELSE has been suppressed.

Posted by: stonebird | Feb 27, 2018 8:34:33 AM | 44

While looking for the news I mentoned in @45, I came across this - which shows where it is all heading. NO "news" that is not directly from the "UberState" will be found in the future. Obviously "to protect the unthinking in their own interest", or some such rubbish.

This is to further eliminate and alienate masses from knowing what is important and what is propaganda.

Posted by: stonebird | Feb 27, 2018 9:05:26 AM | 45

@ psychohistorian | Feb 26, 2018 10:19:33 PM | 34

Are you aware of writings of Ellen Brown? She has published books on the topic, and you can also find many more recent articles by her like this one:

Posted by: ex-SA | Feb 27, 2018 9:34:17 AM | 46

Dont even need paid trolls when they set it up with a bot army

Posted by: cantmossadtheassad | Feb 27, 2018 9:46:05 AM | 47

I suspect it's time to introduce a new verb into the lexicon to spontaneously replace derivations of the verb "investigate" which has been grossly abused and dragged through the mud by The Swamp and its lackeys.

It's Inventorate.

An Inventorator Inventorates stuff which any half-decent Investigation would expose as drivel, lies, or blithering idiocy. The results of an Inventoration are usually hard to swallow and extraordinarily convoluted and long-winded.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 27, 2018 9:53:44 AM | 48

Trolls are easy to spot. Often short, even word or two prepared utterances deflecting, using straw man argument unrelated to main issue addressed in comment, uncalled for moral judgment, pushing unassailable dogmas for facts, ridiculing, insulting, deadening , condemning ad hominem with no rational response to addressing issue, and that includes also short praises, group ganging up, and group think expressing support.

I suggest people write three to four sentences not less, avoid trolling characteristics above, not repeating opinions already expressed in the thread and avoid up voting and down voting as multi identity trolls can easily defeat people's efforts to promote certain comment, and for Christ sake do not use "ordering comment by best".

And most of all do not blindly believe anything on internet which is in sharp contrast with your analog experience, be extremely skeptical and do not recognize internet ID persons as any authority but use posts as a starting point of your analog investigation of the issue. Please do not use argument like " I know something for a fact since I read about on internet" since at best one can find there only conjectures to be proven in real world.

Posted by: Kalen | Feb 27, 2018 10:15:09 AM | 49

Kalen @50

there is another type of trolling that happened here on MofA not so long ago - where two "teams" of trolls take the opposite sides in an argument.
The first posts a long post (in this case claiming it was simply copying from another site) that others took exception to. Follows a long argument (probabaly pre-prepared) on a subject that had nothing to do with the original (b's) article. Monopolised all the comments for a couple of days until b, quite rightly, silenced them and cut them out. (the individual comments were usually lengthy ones, with a lot of cut and paste)


I presume, without having any evidence to back it up, that the surveillance "algo's" are primed to "count" words (key words, both for and anti, semantically loaded etc.). In which case Flitter and Tracebook could claim that the site is one that "concentrates on" or "allows" opinions that are not to the liking of the Uberstate. (ie. could then be used to blackball the site as "discriminatory).

This attack, for that is what it was, takes a lot of co-ordination, preparation and probably a MSM/propaganda prepared "follow-up" to eliminate the target site.

Posted by: stonebird | Feb 27, 2018 11:22:46 AM | 50


Finally, I do not believe my eyes. I've been writing to my favorite websites telling them that the Russians could not possibly compete with the U.S. when it came to manipulation of twitter/facebook etc. Where is the comparative analysis?

How could the Russians possibly compete with US Internet-manipulation, US-election-funding? Look at the most basic numbers, US population compared to Russian population. ETC.

The Muller Investigation does not want to investigate Trump:
1)Corruption of politicians -- illegal bribes
2)Corruption of the Internet

BECAUSE: they will themselves will get caught.


Thanx for this extremely important post.


Posted by: Kim Sky | Feb 27, 2018 11:30:38 AM | 51

I think terminology is very significant. People pushing a perverse, hidden agenda are not mere trolls/vandals. I call them "covert persuasionists".

Posted by: blues | Feb 27, 2018 11:49:35 AM | 52

@28 debsisdead and @etc.. thanks for your posts.. they're informative..

" The church leaders said:

“This reminds us all of laws of a similar nature which were enacted against the Jews during dark periods in Europe.”

this is a repetitive pattern in present day israel...obviously bds has legs and is worth continuing... note johnny law link @38 for a fairly clear result.. they're freaking out..

@50 kalen / @51 stonebird... it is one thing to recognize a local troll, it is another thing to recognize how the much of the media has now become one big troll... the recent 40 million to spread disinfo is going to be spread any number of ways, whether it be via huffpost, the medium, democracy now, or take yer pick... some of these sites are very receptive to spreading bullshit.. that is a different type of trolling and harder to contain in some respects..

Posted by: james | Feb 27, 2018 11:53:57 AM | 53

I always believed that the diplomatic wing of government should be about building bridges.

Seems to ring true, The Bridges Of Troll County.

Posted by: Recently Hired Green-haired Purple Troll | Feb 27, 2018 11:54:21 AM | 54

A Facebook VP, Rob Goldman, stated that most of the funding in the 'Russia-associated' ads was placed after the election. Hardly a means of infleuncing something that had already happened.

Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 27, 2018 12:10:46 PM | 55

Someone will be paying off their mortgage early this election cycle. A nice racket indeed. Would make Al Capone a little jealous.

Posted by: Jo Garcia | Feb 27, 2018 12:14:52 PM | 56

@JL 38

This type of legislation has been metastasizing in America but I have a solution that would provide clarity: Trump should simply declare Jerusalem as the capital of the United States to conform with reality.

Posted by: Sad Canuck | Feb 27, 2018 12:55:05 PM | 57

CBC: NATO Researcher Warns of Russian Interference inn 2019 Canadian Elections

"Russia is attracted to Canada because destabilizing it will 'undermine the cohesion' of the broader NATO alliance. Moreover it could serve to undermine Canadian policy in Europe..."

More money for CSIS, CSE, 'Five Eyes' etc. Maybe we'll build a Trudeau troll-farm too.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 27, 2018 1:00:46 PM | 58

@58 sad canuck - lol! that would simplify things immensely... also, if they can just do away with the border on the 49th parallel, we can all be under the same leadership! i guess this is what chrystia freeland and trudeau really want.. i knew it was what harper wanted..

Posted by: james | Feb 27, 2018 1:13:30 PM | 59

Just in;nyt says Assad receives NK help in chemicals weapons,from un reports,unreported.sheesh.

Posted by: dahoit | Feb 27, 2018 1:25:29 PM | 60

Pertinent quote regarding propaganda:

“When people ask about what is most threatening to humanity and all of life on Earth today, they usually mention nuclear, chemical and bacteriological weapons, but forget about one more truly terrible weapons of mass destruction, aimed primarily at the human brain. This is information, propaganda and agitation.”
Valentin Falin, who recently died aged 92.

More on what he thought (some of it quite extreme) here:–analysis/the-us-goal-is-to-destroy-russia-ten-quotes-by-valentin-falin

Posted by: 9308305K | Feb 27, 2018 1:32:40 PM | 61

Netanyahu backed off his attack on churches.

Israel put proposed taxes on church-owned property in Jerusalem on hold after top Christian clerics in the city closed the venerated Church of the Holy Sepulchre to protest the planned levies.[...]
The Holy Sepulchre [...] remained closed on Tuesday, and earlier in the day, hundreds had gathered outside to protest the proposed taxes.

Hal C.

Posted by: Hal C | Feb 27, 2018 1:53:10 PM | 62

@63 It was probably the deafening outcry from US evangelicals that did it.

Posted by: dh | Feb 27, 2018 2:01:33 PM | 63

Hal C @ 63, DH @ 64: Most historic churches in Jerusalem are owned and run by the Roman Catholic Church and various Orthodox Christian churches (representing Greek and Armenian Orthodox communities among others) who depend heavily on Western tourists for support. They cannot rely much on local Christians for support because so many Christians (being Palestinians) have left Palestine over the years.

Satanyahu and his fellow Knesset knut-heads must have been forced to see that taxing churches out of existence in Jerusalem would backfire on Israel. If there are no churches left in Jerusalem, and all evidence that Jesus ever visited the city is wiped out, Jerusalem's tourist trade will end. How many millions of dollars would Israel lose from that? Plus Israel's claim to respect Christianity bites the dust and the reality becomes plain to see, that Israel is as much a theocracy as Iran is.

I doubt that US evangelism is remotely interested in what happens to the traditional churches in Jerusalem. From what I remember reading in Joe Bageant's book "Deer Hunting with Jesus: Dispatches from America's Class Wars", which was ages ago, most fundamentalist US Christians seem not to know Christianity very well, they may not be able to read or interpret the Bible very well and even their leaders are ignorant of basic Christian beliefs and principles.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 27, 2018 3:00:32 PM | 64

@65 "I doubt that US evangelism is remotely interested in what happens to the traditional churches in Jerusalem."

They are if it helps bring on the end times.

Posted by: dh | Feb 27, 2018 3:29:39 PM | 65

@59 John Gilberts,

Gee gosh golly a NATO researcher thinks Russia is threatening Canada and the CBC acts as a megaphone for this BS.

The whole Russiagate thing has been proven to be nothing but a cover for the Democratic Party's real manipulation of the last election to cut out the only progressive in the race (Sanders) and get the worst possible opponent (Trump) for the elite's favorite candidate (Clinton). The stupid little people of middle America just didn't follow orders like their ever so sophisticated compatriots on the east and west coasts and now the 0.01% have to cover their tracks. Mueller's indictment of 13 interns in some sadsack little St Petersburg troll farm would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic (well actually it is pretty funny).

Who exactly is Putin going to support in a Canadian election? The liberals and conservatives are both reliable lapdogs of Washington and even the NDP (No Difference Party) is infected with Russophobia and Whitehelmetphilia. Between supporting an overtly fascist regime in Kiev, contributing to every "bombing brown people to save them" campaign concocted by Washington, and leading a NATO battle group in Latvia some 250 miles from Moscow, it's pretty hard to make a case that Canada is a passive little angel looking for world peace anymore.

Very sad what the neo-liberal imposter Trudeau is doing to Canada. The guy is Harper with ridiculous socks and a bit of identity politics thrown in to fool whatever passes as center-left in Canada these days. What a change and almost nobody makes a fuss or cares. Of course the Canadian media attacks anyone suggesting better relations with Russia and Canada might be worth trying. It's McCarthyism on steroids, and as usual, the real targets are progressives and the "real left" fighting for workers. We are allowed to have all the social justice we want, but don't you dare discuss economic justice that threatens the bank accounts of the 0.01%, or watch any of that evil alternative news that provides a different perspective from our govt/corporate approved sources.

Very sad for my home and native land .......

Posted by: Sad Canuck | Feb 27, 2018 3:31:01 PM | 66

Lol american propaganda is everywhere, in europe the media is awashed with american propganda on russia, syria, trump etcetera EVERY SINGLE DAY and now they want to bolster that propaganda even more, these people are so full of their own shlt its dangerous. Full blown idiots right here.

There is no freedom of speech in the west these days and definately not in the coming years.

Posted by: Anon | Feb 27, 2018 3:39:43 PM | 67

John Gilberts | Sad Canuck

ITs the classical propaganda campaign, Nato+western media,
another standard psyop stunt earlier by the same "troll":

Russia is trying to cause unrest in Germany to topple Merkel, senior NATO expert says

Posted by: Anon | Feb 27, 2018 3:46:29 PM | 68

@67 Sad Canuck

Sad Spudski, also a Canuck, agrees 100%. The bullshit CBC reporting - especially on Syria - is egregious. A year ago I had an e-mail exchange with a senior CBC "reporter" and suggested that they talk to somebody who actually knows something, e.g., Eva Bartlett or Vanessa Beeley. Still haven't seen Eva once on CBC even though she's a courageous articulate Canuck with lots of experience on the ground in Syria.

Posted by: spudski | Feb 27, 2018 3:53:21 PM | 69

@ psychohistorian

You always talk about private finance without going much further. Please elucidate. Who do you think is behind the curtain?

Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 27, 2018 3:55:31 PM | 70

@71 Lochearn

Private interests are behind the curtain; which are directly arrayed opposite the common interests of the public-at-large.

These private interests have also usurped the collective power of citizens, using legislative, executive, congressional, and military agencies to enforce their will upon common citizens.

Posted by: Nudge | Feb 27, 2018 4:11:08 PM | 71

@ 72

Yes, but who exactly are private interests?

Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 27, 2018 4:15:01 PM | 72

@ psychohistorian

The reason I ask is that I suspect that it is Jews you allude to, which is perfectly understandable. Maybe the Jews were just the best players in the game the Anglo Americans had set up. In the stinking hubris of the Anglo-Americans maybe the aristocratic Jews spotted a loophole, they saw further ahead. Like a soccer team they were superbly orchestrated. In a nasty free-for-all they triumphed. End of.

Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 27, 2018 4:21:00 PM | 73

@Fec 30 and previous,
Those are great articles, Nafeez does fantastic work. Isn’t he the guy who the Guardian fired? Yes, just looked it up, it was because he exposed Israel’s attempt to control Gaza gas production, here’s the last article he wrote for the Guardian:

Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 27, 2018 4:27:22 PM | 74

Now the hubris is with them (the Jews, Isrealis, Zionists). Now they are going through the same dialectic.

Posted by: Lochearn | Feb 27, 2018 4:38:14 PM | 75

@76 So maybe the evangelicals have it right. Give them what they want. Move the US embassy to Jerusalem. Put the squeeze on Christians. Bomb Iran. Bring on Armageddon....whoopee!!!

Posted by: dh | Feb 27, 2018 4:47:42 PM | 76

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 26, 2018 10:25:22 PM | 35

You are adressing a comment Posted by: C I eh? | Feb 26, 2018 10:13:08 PM | 34 which does not appear in the board, moreover that the comment which carries number 34 in the board now was made by "psychohistorian" at a different minute of 10 PM....

Weird, isn´t it? the more when I know this commenter C I eh? from long ago posting at Saker´s especially when topics related to trolls/IOs are commented...
I wonder what he was saying, surely interesting, as always....

@Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 26, 2018 9:01:42 PM | 28

The biggest 'win' populism has had this far is in driving all feedback off all sites with a readership of more than a few hundred. Many of those that do allow feedback only permit humans with credentialed facebook or google accounts to indulge and the comments are only visible to similarly logged in types.

Related to this you are saying, just happened to me recently at Fort Russ that since a week or so I am not able anymore to read or post comments unless I am registered at Blogger or Facebook, something I am not going to be. They had before the Disqus system where you could post as a guest with a fake email account, as it is my custom....

...if you actually watch what happens in a feedback column such as the rare occasions when the graun still permits CIF comments it isn't the deliberately offensive arseholes spouting the usual cliches who get deleted, it is those who put forward a considered argument which details why the original writer has reached a faulty conclusion.

Totally agree, in fact almost anyone making a dissenting comment in so called "communities" shaped around "blogs" or "alt-media" is deemed a troll, while it is this unfairly labeled troll who ends being object of "troll treatment" by the groupthinking community who do not spare means ( including gross insulting and ridiculizing ) to get the newcomer dissenter feeling uncomfortable enough so as to desist and go out as soon as possible, lest they feel contraried in their usual agreement.... This happens even in this "reflexive" community, if you are not already aware....

Posted by: Fatima Manoubia | Feb 27, 2018 5:03:04 PM | 77

The zionists haven't thrown out the legislation to seize church land, they have merely put it on hold as the Holy Sepulchre is alleged to contain Jesus grave (something I don't fully comprehend if he got up, rolled back the rock and took off, but there ya go) anyway easter is not far off and the church being shut when thousands of euro and amerikan bible bashers are fronting up isn't a good look if they find out that israel not only seizes xtian land, they tax churches - although it is important to recognise this is two seperate attacks one by the yahoo crook the other by greedy local developers in local government.
If the churches remain closed over easter the israelis will blame the local xtians saying this shows them to be incapable of managing such important resources, flirting all the while with wealthy amerikan evangelical combines. The legislation is not off the table it has just been put on hold until after easter.
As for the retroactive land tax, it is still going forward and if allowed will bankrupt Palestinian congregations. There are still plenty of xtians in Jerusalem and on the west bank Jen I dunno where you get that falsehood from. There are not as many as there once were perhaps but these churches are all still used by locals and do a lot better congregation-wise than urban churches in amerika & europe who are in dire trouble. Witness the thousands of local xtians who prayed outside the Holy Sepulchre yesterday.

The zionists do want to drive the Palestinian xtians out of Jerusalem, just as they want to chase out muslims with the seizure of Haram esh-Sharif and its associated structures the al-Aqsa Mosque, the Dome of the Rock and the Dome of the Chain.

The churches have been getting religious tourists and the israelis are eager to ensure that any revenue is not retained by non-jews - hence the property tax. Whatever xtians are out there, how well do you think your church would do if the local authorities hit you with an 'annual' land tax going back more than forty years all at once. Few churches can endure 41 x n thousands of dollars = hundreds of thousands of dollars, pay up now or we'll seize your assets. All church land is to be taxed at full commercial rates NOW! and for ever after.

Whatever money the Jerusalem churches have gained has been used to help relieve suffering among all Palestinians, now just as they did to muslim charities, see here and here israel is intent on shutting down non-jewish faith based missions that don't talk end days tosh.
This is blatant expropriation of non-jewish religious assets, the israeli government is trying to force all religions in israel to conform to jewish models of worship and amerikan xtians are abetting this for their own narrow financial interests.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 27, 2018 5:04:33 PM | 78

@79 And don't forget all the left-leaning 'progressive' atheists. They'll be happy to see Christianity dead and buried.

Posted by: dh | Feb 27, 2018 5:09:41 PM | 79

Posted by: dh | Feb 27, 2018 5:09:41 PM | 80

'Left leaning progressive atheists' as you call us would prefer to live in a world free of superstition chiefly because we know that once the old wives tales and superstitions are large enough and organised enough they inevitably cut a deal with power to sell their followers on ideas that favour the ruling elites while they do down the average follower, and where necessary force them into war. No one really gives a flying fuck if people want to believe Flying Spaghetti Monster nonsense but when mobs of pastafari are pushed together and exhorted into sticking their noses in everyone else's beeswax, of course any reasonable person opposes it.
I hasten to add that this is not what is happening among xtians & muslims in the apartheid state where motives are racist and aimed at oppressing the indigenous population. In that case it is the cohorts of fundie jews who are abetting the powers that be to oppress non-jews by filling the average dumb and probably illiterate orthodox fundie to butcher the indigenous people of the Jordan Valley.
Just as the likes of Pat Robertson and Billy Graham drove their ignorant & superstitious flocks to pick up guns and slaughter south east asians and middle easterners.

I dunno why you threw in that snarky comment dh, anyone would think you were set on derailing the discussion.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 27, 2018 6:05:38 PM | 80

@80 Well I've met some pretty angry atheists. I'm agnostic myself I suppose if I have to define myself as anything. Never been able to believe or not believe. But I agree with you to a point. I think people who get serious about belief systems are deluded. Of course they probably pity me. That's OK.

I don't ask permission to post 'snarky' or otherwise. If b doesn't like it he'll tell me.

Posted by: dh | Feb 27, 2018 6:25:35 PM | 81

@ Lochearn who wrote:
You always talk about private finance without going much further. Please elucidate. Who do you think is behind the curtain?

If you follow the link at comment number 1 in the Weekly Review and Overview....and as follows, it should answer your question

I want to see all of finance globally be a public utility rather than owned by the families detailed in the link. I don't want to go after them but want to make the economic lifeblood of humanity a public resource instead of the jackboot it is currently

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 27, 2018 7:23:04 PM | 82

Debsisdead, nice explanation of the new Israeli law/interpretation to confiscate church property.

One of the "inconvenient truths" disappeared in "news" and "history" is that about 150,000 of the 750,000 indigenous Palestinians driven off of their property in the Nakba of 1948 were Christians. The "Jewish State" does not mean "judeo-christian" - the term coined to conflate those two identity groups, but only so as to promote the Zionist agenda.

Posted by: Daniel | Feb 27, 2018 8:12:17 PM | 83

@83PH.I myself have wondered the same as Lochearn. I wonder if you might care to outline a few ideas how we might make the lifeblood of humanity a public utility as opposed to a jackboot?

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Feb 27, 2018 8:14:19 PM | 84

"Huge Cash Infusion"? Hardly...

Liberals Pitch $500 Million Cyber Security Plan

"Canada's electronic spy agency takes a central role in new cyber security strategy, will see budget boosts."

This is what happens when you have 'Five Eyes' but no brains!

Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 27, 2018 8:21:44 PM | 85

@ 86 JG

Making two additional points to add to the list of public utilities...

The intertubes and the electricity to power it. We're basically paying to be eavesdropped and trolled via paying for connectivity, devices and energy supply.

Without digging for numbers the global security apparatus has to be the largest consumers of resources, material and energy the planet has seen.

Posted by: foo | Feb 27, 2018 8:37:41 PM | 86

@ Tannenhouser who asked how to make finance a public utility

Thanks for asking and I am sure others have better thoughts and links than mine.....I am working with a head cold

In the US, North Dakota is the only state with a state bank. There is a woman, Ellen Brown, that has written about the experiment as well as the potential for public finance extensively.

In the world of economics there is an Australian, Steve Keen, who has written extensively about a monetary system that is entirely sovereign.

To me the first step is to get folks to understand what I call the God of Mammon religion. The religion is the values and narratives that instantiate the myth of Capitalism. Values like profit, usury, etc. and narratives like that life must be measured in monetary worth, etc.

I would like to take this further but my brain is saying DUH! I hope this helps further the discussion

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 27, 2018 8:54:08 PM | 87

@88 psychohistorian (and Lochearn who first asked)

Let your brain take a break, friend. You gave all the link to public finance ever needed with Ellen Brown. She speaks for the whole concept with utter clarity and credentials - and somewhat bravely, I've always thought, considering the vested interest she's actually going against.

And Steve Keen will do nicely to cut through all the voodoo science called economics.

We're completely off topic, and I'm just passing through quickly, but I wanted to thank you for this manifesto, from your previous comment @83:
"I don't want to go after them but want to make the economic lifeblood of humanity a public resource instead of the jackboot it is currently"

This is a paradigm shift of great import, I think. And it's the most realistic concept given the history - and the institutionalization - of greed over the millennia. I have actually been changing some paradigms in my thinking because of your influence, and because of your persistence. So I'm grateful, and more hopeful than ever.

To tackle, head-on, people consumed with greed would be the quickest form of suicide I can imagine. But to go around them and let them wither away into the past, to make their tricks unattractive, to replace their offers and platforms with alternatives that look people in the eye and treat them fairly, to make their whole scene so..yesterday - I like it.

Posted by: Grieved | Feb 27, 2018 9:15:08 PM | 88

Thoughts are still rushing out so I will throw a few other things at the wall

Government is by definition socialism..If it is a local govt. it likely provides socialistic things like water, sewer, streets, schools, fire, police, etc. To me it is human stupidity to put profit in the middle of those things that are what we establish community for but that is the trend being pushed by the God of Mammon folks.

Fukushima was a horrible human risk management decision (as is all nuclear energy) As I have written before, the gall of forcing hundreds if not thousands of future generations to have responsibility for our nuclear effluent is way more than a war crime, IMO

The current myth being implemented around the world is that private enterprise can do things and provides services better than government. That myth needs to be killed and replaced with the argument that fixing that part of Government is always the better choice for humanity.

Just like in geo-politics, the Big Lies of Capitalism are all around us and the Economist, Reuters and such are the Troll Farms for the God of Mammon

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 27, 2018 9:18:48 PM | 89

Hamilton 68 pretends to be a US site but is based in Germany and is total EU/Globalist. It's a fraud that needs to be exposed. And of course they named it after out more treasonous President. Against the warning of Franklin and Jefferson that it would enslave the people, Hamilton started the first national bank. The banksters even funded a phony play eulogizing the evil bastard.

Posted by: Jim Mooney | Feb 27, 2018 10:01:32 PM | 90

psychohistorian.. good OT comments which i relate well with! thanks!

@86john gilberts... quote- "This is what happens when you have 'Five Eyes' but no brains!" it appears so! either that, or us canucks are too stupid to care.. i can't say that about myself though..

Posted by: james | Feb 27, 2018 10:16:03 PM | 91

@86 john gilberts

You are gold today my friend....

If you read down the text of that article, you see that the proposed $500 million for cyber security is on top of another $225 million over four years, beginning in 2020, to “preserve” CSE’s ability to conduct foreign electronic spying.

Busy little spy beavers :)

Posted by: Sad Canuck | Feb 27, 2018 10:27:30 PM | 92

The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution. (Paul Cezanne)

Posted by: foo | Feb 28, 2018 12:15:42 AM | 93

Tannenhauser @ 85 and Psychohistorian: There may still be a video series "Money as Debt" by Paul Grignon available on Youtube. The series explains how debt-based finance systems operate and the consequences that arise which distort the values and priorities of societies, leading to wastage, environmental destruction and pollution; force most people into wage slavery; and transfer power away from individuals and communities alike and concentrate it in the hands of banks and their owners (who often, unsurprisingly, are shareholders in arms companies). From what I remember of the series (I saw it ages ago), Part 3 dealt with alternative financial systems though not in great detail - the videos are made for the general public. The video series has been criticised for plagiarising other people's ideas and in not demonstrating the pros and cons of alternative financial systems, so it's best seen with other documentaries and material on the same issues.

For what it's worth, Wikipedia has an article on social credit theory you might like to read.

Posted by: Jen | Feb 28, 2018 5:54:13 AM | 94

Another good book on public money is "Debt or Democracy: Public Money for Sustainability and Social Justice" by Mary Mellor
Provisioning through Public Money

Posted by: financial matters | Feb 28, 2018 7:46:27 AM | 95

@88 and 90PH 89Grieed 95jen and 96finacialmatters.

Thanks all, especially financial matters as the book he linked is new to me. Back to PH the original question was do YOU have any ideas on this matter? To start the ball rolling I will offer up one of my idea's. I would suggest that all individuals have at least two streams of revenue for their personal economies. One or Moe of these stream should be of the books so to speak, as much as this is possible. I believe and have experienced the power of what I have heard referred to as social capital. Your turn;)

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Feb 28, 2018 10:39:49 AM | 96

Posted by: nonsense factory | Feb 27, 2018 4:27:22 PM | 75

Thanks. Sorry I swapped the first and last name in my excitement. Posting here is a really big deal for me.

Ahmed kinda dropped out of sight after those articles. I can only imagine the heat aimed at him.

Posted by: Fecund Stench | Feb 28, 2018 11:39:23 AM | 97

OT - further to psychohistorian's comments on finance, this in today from M K Bhadrakumar here

"The fear mongers among the Indian elite spread a canard that India needs to be watchful of American wrath if it expands economic ties with Iran. Of course, that is plain baloney. The Modi government has announced a decision to sequester India-Iran relations from US sanctions by allowing Indian companies and entities to use the national currency. This decision coincided with President Hassan Rouhani’s recent visit and becomes a landmark event in the chronicle of India-Iran relations.

Interestingly, European countries are also moving in the same direction as India. Their plan is to offer euro-denominated credits to Iranian buyers of their goods and services, which will keep the transactions beyond the reach of any US sanctions. France has already announced its intention to offer dedicated, euro-dominated export guarantees to Iranian buyers, which dispense with any US link, whether to the dollar or otherwise."

Posted by: james | Feb 28, 2018 1:13:33 PM | 98

@98 fec / fecund stench... i agree with nonsense factory... thanks for posting.. hopefully you will continue..

Posted by: james | Feb 28, 2018 1:15:40 PM | 99

91;He wasn't potus,he was our first sec of treasury.He was killed by Aaron Burr.The black support is very telling,almost a divide and conquer.

Posted by: dahoit | Feb 28, 2018 1:52:48 PM | 100

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