Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 26, 2017

From Snowden To Russia-gate - The CIA And The Media

The promotion of the alleged Russian election hacking in certain media may have grown from the successful attempts of U.S. intelligence services to limit the publication of the NSA files obtained by Edward Snowden.

In May 2013 Edward Snowden fled to Hongkong and handed internal documents from the National Security Agency (NSA) to four journalists, Glenn Greenwald, Laura Poitras, and Ewen MacAskill of the Guardian and separately to Barton Gellman who worked for the Washington Post. Some of those documents were published by Glenn Greenwald in the Guardian, others by Barton Gellman in the Washington Post. Several other international news site published additional material though the mass of NSA papers that Snowden allegedly acquired never saw public daylight.

In July 2013 the Guardian was forced by the British government to destroy its copy of the Snowden archive.

In August 2013 Jeff Bezos bought the Washington Post for some $250 million. In 2012 Bezos, the founder, largest share holder and CEO of Amazon, had already a cooperation with the CIA. Together they invested in a Canadian quantum computing company. In March 2013 Amazon signed a $600 million deal to provide computing services for the CIA.

In October 2013 Pierre Omidyar, the owner of Ebay, founded First Look Media and hired Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras. The total planned investment was said to be $250 million. It took up to February 2014 until the new organization launched its first site, the Intercept. Only a few NSA stories appeared on it. The Intercept is a rather mediocre site. Its management is said to be chaotic. It publishes few stories of interests and one might ask if it ever was meant to be a serious outlet. Omidyar has worked, together with the U.S. government, to force regime change onto Ukraine. He had strong ties with the Obama administration.

Snowden had copies of some 20,000 to 58,000 NSA files. Only 1,182 have been published. Bezos and Omidyar obviously helped the NSA to keep more than 95% of the Snowden archive away from the public. The Snowden papers were practically privatized into trusted hands of Silicon Valley billionaires with ties to the various secret services and the Obama administration.

The motivation for the Bezos and Omidyar to do this is not clear. Bezos is estimated to own a shameful $90 billion. The Washington Post buy is chump-change for him. Omidyar has a net worth of some $9.3 billion. But the use of billionaires to mask what are in fact intelligence operations is not new. The Ford Foundation has for decades been a CIA front, George Soros' Open Society foundation is one of the premier "regime change" operations, well versed in instigating "color revolutions".

It would have been reasonable if the cooperation between those billionaires and the intelligence agencies had stopped after the NSA leaks were secured. But it seems that strong cooperation of the Bezos and Omidyar outlets with the CIA and others continue.

The Intercept burned a intelligence leaker, Realty Winner, who had trusted its journalists to keep her protected. It smeared the President of Syria as neo-nazi based on an (intentional?) mistranslation of one of his speeches. It additionally hired a Syrian supporter of the CIA's "regime change by Jihadis" in Syria. Despite its pretense of "fearless, adversarial journalism" it hardly deviates from U.S. policies.

The Washington Post, which has a much bigger reach, is the prime outlet for "Russia-gate", the false claims by parts of the U.S. intelligence community and the Clinton campaign, that Russia attempted to influence U.S. elections or even "colluded" with Trump.

Just today it provides two stories and one op-ed that lack any factual evidence for the anti-Russian claims made in them.

In Kremlin trolls burned across the Internet as Washington debated options the writers insinuate that some anonymous writer who published a few pieces on Counterpunch and elsewhere was part of a Russian operation. They provide zero evidence to back that claim up. Whatever that writer wrote (see list at end) was run of the mill stuff that had little to do with the U.S. election. The piece then dives into various cyber-operations against Russia that the Obama and Trump administration have discussed.

A second story in the paper today is based on "a classified GRU report obtained by The Washington Post." It claims that the Russian military intelligence service GRU started a social media operation one day after the Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych was illegally removed from his office in a U.S. regime change operation. What the story lists as alleged GRU puppet postings reads like normal internet talk of people opposed to the fascist regime change in Kiev. The Washington Post leaves completely unexplained who handed it an alleged GRU report from 2014, who classified it and how, if at all, it verified its veracity. To me the piece and the assertions therein have a strong odor of bovine excrement.

An op-ed in the very same Washington Post has a similar smell. It is written by the intelligence flunkies Michael Morell and Mike Rogers. Morell had hoped to become CIA boss under a President Hillary Clinton. The op-ed (which includes a serious misunderstanding of "deterrence") asserts that Russia never stopped its cyberattacks on the United States:

Russia’s information operations tactics since the election are more numerous than can be listed here. But to get a sense of the breadth of Russian activity, consider the messaging spread by Kremlin-oriented accounts on Twitter, which cybersecurity and disinformation experts have tracked as part of the German Marshall Fund’s Alliance for Securing Democracy.

The author link to this page which claims to list Twitter hashtags that are currently used by Russian influence agents. Apparently the top issue Russia's influence agents currently promote is "#merrychristmas".


bigger

When the authors claim Russian operations are "more numerous than can be listed here" they practically admit that they have not even one  plausible operation they could cite. Its simply obfuscation to justify their call for more political and military measures against Russia. This again to distract from the real reasons Clinton lost the election and to introduce a new Cold War for the benefit of weapon producers and U.S. influence in Europe.

None of the Russia-gate stories so far has held up to scrutiny. There is no proof at all, nor reasonable evidence, that Russia interfered in elections in the U.S. or elsewhere. There is no evidence of "collusion" with the Trump campaign.

One of the most complete debunking of the false claims can be found in the recent London Review of Books: What We Don’t Talk about When We Talk about Russian Hacking. Consortium News has published many pieces on the issue as well as analyses and warnings of what may follow from it. Many other writers have caught up and debunk the various false claims. The Nation lists various cases of journalistic malpractice with regard to Russia-gate.

The people who promote the "Russian influence" nonsense are political operatives or hacks. Take for example Luke Harding of the Guardian who just published a book titled Collusion: Secret Meetings, Dirty Money, and How Russia Helped Donald Trump Win. He was taken apart in a Real News interview (vid) about the book. The interviewer pointed out that there is absolutely no evidence in the book to support its claims. When asked for any proof for his assertion Harding defensively says that he is just "storytelling" - in other words: its fiction. Harding earlier wrote a book about Edward Snowden which was a similar sham. Julian Assange called it "a hack job in the purest sense of the term". Harding is also known as plagiarizer. When he worked in Moscow he copied stories and passages from the now defunct Exile, run by Matt Taibbi and Mark Ames. The Guardian had to publish an apology.

The Mexican government controls the media by buying an immense amount of advertisement. It thus guarantees income as long as its political line is followed. The U.S. government has its own ways of controlling the media. In the 1950s to 1970s the CIA ran Operation Mockingbird which gave it control over much of the news and opinion output in U.S. media. During that time up to 400 main stream journalists were working for the CIA.

The method of control has likely changed. The handling of the Snowden affair lets one assume that the CIA induces billionaires to buy up media and to implement the CIA's favored policies through them. We do not know what the billionaires get for their service. The CIA surely has many ways to let them gain information on their competition or to influence business regulations in foreign countries. One hand will wash the other.

James Clapper as Director of National Intelligence, John Brennan as CIA head and James Comey from the FBI "assessed" that Russia influenced the U.S. presidential election. Annex B of their report, which hardly any report bothered to mention, read:

Judgments are not intended to imply that we have proof that shows something to be a fact. Assessments are based on collected information, which is often incomplete or fragmentary, as well as logic, argumentation and precedents.

That sentence is the core of Russia-gate. There are lots of claims, assertions and judgments but no proof at all that any of the alleged Russian influence really happened.

It is probably due to the undue influence of the intelligence services that media have adopted that Annex B standard fro themselves. With regards to Russia (and other issues) assertions are now enough - there is no need to investigate, to find the truth or to verify claims.

How will that system work if an accident happens, some jet gets shot down and the issue escalates. Will there be any reporter left in the main stream media who is allowed to ask real questions?

Posted by b on December 26, 2017 at 11:53 AM | Permalink

Comments
« previous page | next page »

@93, Ghost Ship, "Flynn clear did lie . . . "

What was the lie? You have the "lie" and no one else has it. There is no lie. There wasn't even a lie to Pence.
Flynn was NSC advisor, prior campaign and transition advisor on Nation Security. He was protecting the President's "moves" and doing the President's business.

Flynn's lie is like Russia hacked the election. Totally ether. Never happened. No proof, no indication, all fabricated out of whole cloth. BS.

The FBI constructs a crime and plants it on people. A misstatement or in Flynn's case, his duty is to deny, is not a lie.

Accepting a meme is what propaganda is all about.

Russia hacked Hillary's server. Putin poisoned the dissident. Putin shot the reporter. Kremlin killed Nemstov on the bridge, Assad used chemical weapons, Russia invaded Crimea, it's all memes for people to accept as facts.

Mike Flynn's job is to lie to everyone but his commander-in-chief. That's what he did. In other words, he told "the truth" which everyone should know could be a lie.

Flynn was working for President-elect Trump as his top Intel man. Of course, he would lie. He spent 33 years in military Intel, rose to the top and told a million lies. Spies lie. Espionage is about truth and untruth.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Dec 27, 2017 12:29:58 PM | 101

@john 99:

Oh, bosh, john. all arthur did was back up my point about 'having a (faux) conversation', but i do appreciate knowing he's kinda up again. here's hoping anyone who adores old cranky arthur silbur witlessly can send him a few bucks to live on.

Posted by: wendy davis | Dec 27, 2017 12:43:29 PM | 102

Both Snowden, and Assange, have always been suspect in terms of who if anyone they are working for. It seems likely to me, they are both still working for Intelligence Agencies. I do however, have massive respect for both of them. Not all Intelligence Agenices are the same, and I usually appreciate what they have to say - especially Assange. I really liked what Jon Rappoport wrote about Snowden in 2013. He dissected his reported history, which simply did not make sense. Incidentally, Snowden looks exactly like someone I used to work with in 2003 in The UK, except then he had a British accent. It may not be the same person, but the computing skills, and mannerisms are exceedingly similar. He got fired, for being too outspoken (nothing whatsoever to do with Intelligence Agencies).

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/matrix-who-is-edward-snowden/

Posted by: Tony_0pmoc | Dec 27, 2017 12:50:24 PM | 103

>>>> Red Ryder | Dec 27, 2017 12:29:58 PM | 102

So why did Flynn plead guilty to lying to the FBI? If he was that accustomed to/experienced in lying he would have known what to do. Such as:
1. knowing that with the FBI involved you don't lie but that doesn't mean you have to help them;
2. making sure he had a criminal lawyer with him before answering any question;
3. pleadeding the fifth amendment.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Dec 27, 2017 1:01:00 PM | 104

may i pose a very relevant (imo) question to all? (and answer it as well?) ;-)

had the intercept been leaked cia vault 7 and vault 8 files, would they have published them? (no, because they are ‘the good whistleblowers’, aren’t they?)

https://bit.ly/2lh9nw5

emptywheel had simply slayed me when she’d said: “it will severely weaken the cia!” (and try as i did, i couldn’t find her blog saying so. but if so, and yes: good.


Posted by: wendy davis | Dec 27, 2017 1:38:57 PM | 105

@karlof1 "Congratulations b, your article was chosen by the editor of Strategic Culture Foundation and featured as its Editor's Choice selection!"

You are congratulating me that my intellectual property was stolen by some whatever outlet?

Please take care that the posting is immediately removed from that site.

Any site may post a reasonable amount of excerpts and links to my pieces but no one has any right to copy them in full to reproduce on their site.

The content I write for MoA is meant to attract readers and discussion to MoA, not to other sites.

Posted by: b | Dec 27, 2017 1:52:13 PM | 106

@ b with the concern over others use of his intellectual property

This article is also"copied" over at ZH......did not check for total reproduction but most of it

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 27, 2017 2:09:09 PM | 107

There's a lot going on in this post and comment thread. I have no strong opinion about the disputed status/role of either Snowden or Greenwald that are being discussed above, but I do think it very likely that the Intercept was originally started as what is often referred to (I believe following the Nixon tapes) as a "limited hangout" operation. It was intended to "expose" certain truths the CIA/NSA knew were already implied by earlier revealed and published documents and by this means was to distract the public (as if) and journalists (all three of them) from probing more deeply into the history, scope, and current operations of these and related programs. I would not be surprised if it turned out somehow that the real objective of this was to block the inquiry into or exposure of special access Intel operations during or prior to 9/11 which would blow up entirely the official narrative of that epochal event.

But I would like to bring up one fact that bears on the ongoing discussion of Snowden and Greenwald but has not been mentioned yet (I believe) in this thread. That is the NSA's reported identification of (I believe) at least two other possible leakers or whistleblowers simultaneous with or just after Snowden. I recall there being several reports about the arrest or possible detainment of one possible leaker in particular whose identity has never (to my knowledge) come to light. Does anybody remember better than I do this intriguing but often forgot facet of the NSA / Snowden affair? The existence, identity, and (unknown?) fate of this possible NSA leaker bears on the questions being asked above about Snowden and Greenwald in obvious ways. If there really was such a leaker or potential leaker who had at the time not yet been apprehended by the NSA, then it is at least certainly possible that Snowden's own leaks were co-opted (willingly or not) by the CIA/NSA to render the revelations of the other not-yet-identified leaker anticlimactic and redundant. In this way, it is possible that Snowden's leaks, as filtered through Greenwald, the Guardian, and the Post, were themselves a kind of limited hangout operation. Note what they produced: Obama admitted a discussion was needed, Clapper was dutifully brought before Congress, lied to them, and was not punished at all for it, and some peripheral laws were tweaked (and then untweaked) to give the impression that something had been discovered, discussed, and addressed, with the hope that now everybody would stop thinking too much about the NSA etc. This is exactly what happened, and it's exactly what limited hangouts are designed to do. I would be interested in hearing more information from others here about those one or two other unidentified NSA leakers. What ever happened with that story? Was the identity of both leakers ever revealed?


Posted by: WJ | Dec 27, 2017 2:11:30 PM | 108

Yawn.Wake up me when Israelgate is mentioned.

Posted by: dahoit | Dec 27, 2017 2:15:46 PM | 109

Didn't Yeltsin appoint Putin, and wasn't Yeltsin our(U.S.) guy? Reminds me of the selection of Harry Truman instead of Henry Wallace to replace FDR in Chicago, 1944.

Posted by: Dave | Dec 27, 2017 2:42:39 PM | 110

Dear B,

With regard to Karlof1 and Psychohistorian's comments about the reposting of your articles on other sites, I suggest you use a pingback function on the MoA blog so that you receive notification whenever another website republishes your posts. You would then be able to find out who publishes your work frequently and ask those sites to fund your work.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 27, 2017 2:59:58 PM | 111

b @108--

Sorry to learn that! For me as a visitor to that site, I have no way of knowing if your permission was sought or if the article was pirated. I shall pass along your displeasure to that site via their contact page. It appears it has a Twitter acct, so you might yell at it via that platform.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 27, 2017 3:36:19 PM | 112

that's a drag b's articles being taken to other sites without acknowledging or paying for them... shows though how valuable b's work and insights are.. why the f does strategic culture foundation pay for the use of them?

Posted by: james | Dec 27, 2017 3:55:44 PM | 113

does - doesn't..

Posted by: james | Dec 27, 2017 3:56:22 PM | 114

@b,108

To post a full article of yours or anyone without asking permission, and without giving accreditation is completely outrageous. However, what you write is extremely good, and people will want to spread your wise words. They should however ask permission, and maybe even pay you if they have the resources to do so.

I haven't asked permission of an Australian journalist, to re-link her words. I first came across her only a few weeks ago on Tom Feeley's website Information Clearing House. I often read you there too. Did you know?

Her words are the same, but there are subtle differences in the detail and the imagery. Is that Mr Fish's cartoon on ICH? If so has he been acknowledged and paid?

Has Caitlin Johnstone been paid? I think what she writes is awesome.

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/intelligence-community-says-us-had-better-reauthorize-surveillance-or-else-7362ed6df4f7

Maybe you guys, should contact each other, and maybe form an independent co-operative, cos from where I'm reading you - you are all on the same side, and you are all incredibly talented and brave.

Tony

Posted by: Tony_0pmoc | Dec 27, 2017 4:08:19 PM | 115

@35 Oriental Voice
The masses in USA are revolting as evidenced by the results of the Bernie Sanders campaign. That is why the establishment is running a massive distraction program including, Russia, FBI, swamp draining noises, smelly Clinton residues, North Korea, and so dreary on.

In one brief election cycle decades of demonizing socialism in any form has been dissolved and millions of people both active and alienated came out for nationalised, functional, health, education, and family care services. The USA chaebols are pooping their pants and the establishment media of all hues are helping out as usual. Pathetic and sad for the future of us all on this beautiful planet.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Dec 27, 2017 5:17:06 PM | 116

@ WJ | 110

Sorry I can't help with your questions, but I concur with your hunches about the creation of Intercept.

Your reference to Intercept being set up "to block the inquiry into or exposure of special access Intel operations during or prior to 9/11 which would blow up entirely the official narrative of that epochal event" touches a nerve.

I was a regular reader and commenter at Glenn Greenwald's (GG) "Unclaimed Territory" blog, which was absorbed into the progressive-liberal lite Salon site. I even had a few brief but cordial e-mail exchanges with GG, since I diligently sent him (requested) private e-mail alerts to grammatical and syntactic errors in his prolific posts.

I sympathized with GG's early attempts to deal fairly with aggressive 9/11 Truthers monopolizing the comments; he personally moderated, and participated in, his comments threads. At first, GG's stance was "agnostic" towards 9/11 "Truther" theories, but he reasonably insisted that 9/11-related comments not be allowed to hijack every discussion.

But GG himself was not much of a 9/11 skeptic, and I soured on GG when he proved to be what I call a "Trutherphobe".

Before long, he became openly censorious and began removing both comments and commenters who insisted on mentioning 9/11, even if the 9/11 reference was germane to the topic. (Not me; I knew better than to push his buttons.) Also, GG adopted, or independently reached, what I call the "Chomsky Bubble" stance-- essentially, a sophisticated rationalization that amounts to "nothing to see here, move along."

Eventually, despite his efforts to seem nominally open-minded towards 9/11 skeptics, it became clear that to GG, pursuing 9/11 truth was both a distraction and a nuisance. 9/11 truth is simply not part of GG's agenda.

When GG acquired apparently exclusive stewardship of the Snowden trove, one of my first thoughts was, "If there's anything in Snowden's documents that contradict or cast doubt upon the official 9/11 narrative, Glenn will be careful to put it on the bottom of the pile and keep it there." I still believe this.

It's too late to blithely conclude "In short...", but all this to say that if you're correct, GG is just the person to put in charge of a modified limited hangout operation that, in part, suppresses 9/11 inquiry and truth.

Posted by: Ort | Dec 27, 2017 5:35:03 PM | 117

regarding a post b made many months ago on korea.. it had a link to a book that appears to be called 'soldier' but it is not mentioned on the link... does anyone know what book this is from? https://www.moonofalabama.org/images5/MacArthur.jpg

Posted by: james | Dec 27, 2017 5:35:24 PM | 118

@Red Ryder #69

Typing on a smartass phone is nerve wrecking, if for no other reason than being already messed with by one's provider.

When I asked about what the most sinister scenario would be, I was thinking along the lines of 'Trojan Horse'. Not only for the reasons You named with Daniel Ellsberg and others of his caliber. The congruence is by magnitude greater than with Snowden.
...

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Dec 27, 2017 5:39:05 PM | 119

looks like it is from this book - General Douglas A. MacArthur: Soldier

Posted by: james | Dec 27, 2017 5:40:15 PM | 120

@Red Ryder #69
...

As many other here stated, what WAS revealed, to was already known to a large degree. What WAS revealed, did not stir up the public sentiment beyond a ripple. It is the absence of any whatsoever consequence to his revelations that does not make sense. For the first part, of his living here in Hawai'i and subcontractor work for the NSA via Booz Allen Hamilton, reads like a cheap version of a spy b-picture. Compared to the surrounding circumstances of Daniel Ellsberg, Snowden's story appeared to be staged - if only to me. The more became known, the less did people pay attention to Libya and Syria. The distractive value of the unfolding Snowden whistle blowing was enormous.

...

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Dec 27, 2017 5:57:15 PM | 121

Every Assange fruit is a bitter one.

Posted by: gut bugs galore | Dec 27, 2017 6:16:21 PM | 122

@Red Ryder #69
...

I have always been flabbergasted about the naivety of the general public in regards to the abilities, capabilities and determination of the so called 'establishment' - aka Plutocracy, when it comes to the choice of means to achieve their psychopathic goals. What is out of reach, or undoable to those that willingly accept the death of millions of innocent people in the ME and the world over?

The utter destruction of sovereign Nations that don't fall in line? Organizing coup d'etats like local fundraisers for soup kitchens? Looking at the track record of the American establishment, nothing, absolutely nothing is ever off the table.

A staged NSA leak story that turns out to become more inconceivable and more suspicious by the day. And it matters not. Not more than Assange spending his days in an Ecuadorian exile until the plot line demands to change.

Therefore, the most sinister scenario includes a wholly staged Snowden storyline, with the participation of Russia. This is not to say that this is the way it is, but not discounting the possibility that it could be. On more than one occasion, Russian behavior, be it either reactionary, or proactive has been inconclusive. A fool who would think that it is all just theater on the expense of millions of innocent people and humanity as a whole.

No one has ever been able to predict the future in detail. Mankind is left to make sense of the present and with constant misinformation and distraction, that appears to be impossible.

Thanks to You and the other knowledgeable commenters.

All the best for 2018.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Dec 27, 2017 6:30:36 PM | 123

There is a good case that both Snowjob and Assange are Limited Hangouts. Each has exposed little beyond that which was already known. Neither offers any criticism of Israel's occupation of Palestine and the Yinon Plan.

What they have done is to get the worlds' citizenry to understand that domestic surveillance is a normal condition which should be expected and accepted.

Posted by: fast freddy | Dec 27, 2017 6:44:05 PM | 124

It's been that sense... Ever since I've discovered WaPo... I've been trying to name the sense. strong odor of bovine excrement!

Well placed, b.

Posted by: Forest | Dec 27, 2017 6:44:47 PM | 125

Good hatchet job in RT on the Steele dossier (which links to a Tablet investigation worth reading) which explains why you shouldn't pay too much attention to what writers like Luke Harding (The Guardian) and Anne Applebaum (The Washington Post) output:

But Ohr hasn’t lived in Russia for decades either — and she isn’t a spy or a journalist, as Smith notes. This presumably is why much of the ‘reporting’ in the dossier is based on rumor and hearsay; the kind of information that gets bandied around in Moscow’s expat circles where everyone is trying to one-up each other by claiming to have ‘insider’ knowledge.

This phenomenon is actually key to understanding not just Russiagate, but Western reporting on Russia in general. It’s almost a kind of Cold War nostalgia. Journalists are lured by the prospect of appearing to be ‘in on’ the latest Kremlin intrigue or, even better, the appearance that they are so important that the Kremlin is out to get them; that they are truly living on the edge.

It’s why journalists like Luke Harding and Anne Applebaum want their readers to believe they are part of James Bond-style events in Moscow, where KGB agents are breaking in their windows and stealing their purses. More than anything else, those dubious tales are about confirming their own relevance and making sure their readers know how ‘important’ they are: Look at me, I was brave enough to venture into the Russian abyss, please acknowledge my efforts with endless praise and adulation.

Anne Applebaum is now at the "London School of Economics as a Professor of Practice at the Institute for Global Affairs. At the LSE she runs Arena, a program on disinformation and 21st century propaganda". She should be well versed in disinformation and 21st century propaganda because she's been delivering it on behalf of the Washington establishment for quite some time although I suspect her program is a "hit job" on Moscow.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Dec 27, 2017 7:03:59 PM | 126

annie applepants is a confirmed russia hater... she never lets up even when he husband loses his position in the polish political process... and it explains why she is given regular opportunites to express her views in the cia outlet - wapo..

Posted by: james | Dec 27, 2017 7:19:27 PM | 127

@james #120

Robert M. Neer

Napalm An American Biography

Posted by: Harry | Dec 27, 2017 7:25:26 PM | 128

@120 james

It actually appears to be from "Napalm: an American Biography" by Robert M. Neer, 2013. The book is divided into 3 sections: Hero, Soldier, Pariah - hence the seeming title of Soldier at the top of the page.

A Google search on "correspondent Cutforth" (including the quotation marks) returns a slightly differently typeset book but with the same copy as b's image. The image itself is also returned under Images for that search. So it's definitely the Napalm book.

Try scrolling through this to find your page:
https://books.google.com/books?id=BbKvLs2TZKAC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 27, 2017 7:32:42 PM | 129

@126 What they have done is to get the worlds' citizenry to understand that domestic surveillance is a normal condition which should be expected and accepted.

This could also be stated as, "What they have done is to get the worlds' citizenry to understand that domestic surveillance is a normal condition which should be expected and guarded against."

I think the world has changed since Snowden. Within the IT community, the sense of security and its requirements has been changed. What's missing so far is a discernible response. Wait a few more short years, until Chinese computing oustrips western encryption by an order of magnitude, and sooner than that when Russian hardware and software made for the consumer market is invulnerable to NSA technology. There's no sense trying to protect oneself from NSA at present because it will only draw attention. But when the Russian kit is on the market, let's just see who in the west buys it. I predict large sales.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 27, 2017 7:45:07 PM | 130

@132 Didn't Kapersky just get banned in the US?

Posted by: dh | Dec 27, 2017 7:52:50 PM | 131

@fast freddy at #126:
"Neither offers any criticism of Israel's occupation of Palestine and the Yinon Plan.
What they have done is to get the worlds' citizenry to understand that domestic surveillance is a normal condition which should be expected and accepted."

can't say about the yinon plan, but assange and Wikileaks have been all over trump's declaration to make Jerusalem the capital of Israel. but this page might spell out more of Wikileak's history on publishing leaks provided to them, *not surveillance* per se, on Israel. first news I'd heard from them on Israel, iirc, was that the IDF had been training the federales in Mexio to make ugly war on the Zapatistas a true democratic government...years ago.

https://bit.ly/2zG6B8Q

to b: reblogged at café Babylon, five paragraphs, no ads, boutique site, no one subscribes for dollars, etc. thank you. scarcity of commenters for the holidays, as well.

https://bit.ly/2zG6B8Q


Posted by: wendy davis | Dec 27, 2017 8:03:07 PM | 132

JAMES @ 120 and 122


Robert Neer, Napalm, page 100

Posted by: rjj | Dec 27, 2017 8:03:20 PM | 133

@ 133

No idea but Pandora plays ads all the time.

Posted by: Forest | Dec 27, 2017 8:07:40 PM | 134

I'm always wary of talk about limited hangouts. A case can usually be made that such talk is itself intended for the same purpose - to lull the recipient into despair and passivity.

When we say that we've all been gamed by theater, it's another way of saying not to fight back. But the Devil doesn't get it all his way all the time. And the rulers of the Earth always have to work through agents, and they are so frigging human that plans often go slightly, or greatly, awry.

We see more botched conspiracy action than seems credible. So a case can be made that the carelessness itself is part of the subliminal message that resistance is futile. But is it really intentional, or is it simply making the best of a bad job? Was Kennedy really gunned down in daylight as a message to all of us that we'd better not resist, because the power was total? Or was it just the way the state criminals think, that the way to kill a president is the same playbook that always worked before, and still they botched the hit with all kinds of missed shots and clumsy actions? Their secret weapon was media complicity - this allowed a multitude of sins, and without it we'd have known 50 years ago who killed Kennedy.

And it WAS a secret weapon. It took a long time for this to become obvious. We see the media all along has been completely mediocre, but since it has long given wall-to-wall coverage, it never had to get very good in order to send the daily propaganda message. Come the Internet, everyone sees how sloppy the media's work is. But does this raise the quality of the media lies? It seems not - the opposite in fact, the readers get far smarter than the writers.

The greatest trick the Devil pulled was not convincing the world he didn't exist, it was convincing the world that evil was clever, when in fact it's very mediocre. Evil performs badly. It will continue to perform badly. It can be resisted and overcome. This takes time.

I always enjoy the words of fictional Lazarus Long: "Of course the game is rigged. But don't let that stop you playing. If you don't play, you can't win."

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 27, 2017 8:13:41 PM | 135

Here is my little experience with the surveillance state: I am a user of the Mathematica computer program developed and sold by Wolfram Research Inc. They have a web site for users to exchange information called Wolfram Community. It is mostly about asking and answering questions about the use of Mathematica or sharing Mathematica tricks. About a year ago a series of about half a dozen ads for programmers appeared which were clearly link to expanding the surveillance state. Here is one of them:

Programming Ad

I replied by quoting the U.S. Constitution 4th Amendment and saying "Yes it was relevant to the advertisement."

Within 10 minutes my reply was deleted. I received an email from Wolfram Research saying: "We work very hard to foster positive environment on Wolfram Community and cannot allow any discussions outside the Wolfram Community guidelines. This means discussions that stray way beyond Wolfram Technologies topics."

So what is positive about advertisements on a community forum for the surveillance state and what is negative about the 4th Amendment? And the advertisements had little direct relevance to Mathematica. But I suppose they had their reasons.

Posted by: David Park | Dec 27, 2017 9:39:05 PM | 136

thank you harry, grieved and rjj on the place where that page came from... much appreciated...

Posted by: james | Dec 27, 2017 9:48:53 PM | 137

Well there's certainly a good flock of sheeple here today...

Suspicion is a healthy and valuable instinct...

Especially in an age of received wisdom...

Yes Bozos and Omidyap are carrying on the proud tradition of the Ford Foundation...Soros etc...

It is not hard to use that keyboard for something other than saying 'baa' on chat rooms...like actually digging a little...

You will find enough to fill many shelves about how the deep state co-opted supposedly 'alternative' media [and art...ie the whole modern art scam] since the 1960s...all this is meticulously documented...no need to start listing well known books...

Today you will find Bozos and Omidyap on the same list of stink tank sponsors as Ford, Soros...etc...ah yes...All in the Family...

Greenwald is the 'official' opposition...the approved 'dissent...he's as phony as a three dollar bill...

The fact that Omidyap is his sugar daddy should leave no doubt...and does indeed cast much doubt on the entire Snowden saga...

What do we really know about Snowden anyway...?

Yes he's sitting in Russia and keeping quiet...other than releasing some kind of spyware for smartphones...[as if any more were needed]...

Yes some US politicians have made some angry noises about him...

Does that automatically mean everything is as presented...?

The possibility of a controlled leak...to divert and distract from a much bigger secret...?

I guess we'll never know...and why bother even asking...?

'Ort' at #16 said the only sensible thing I have seen here...

'...What is wrong with this picture?'

Nothing, Ort...you nailed it...'modified limited hangout'

...aka co-opting the 'alternative' media...

Posted by: FB | Dec 27, 2017 10:22:26 PM | 138

Oh well hey, Snowden is a nice smart kid, and I enjoy his little rants and admonitions. Greenwald I spotted for a sellout early on. But it doesn't really matter since I merely suck off the sweet nectar and spit out the alleged "content".

I have good reason to do this. I am become so cynical that nothing they could say would move me one inch. No one short of James Fetzer could make me more cynical. Yes, it's come to this.

Posted by: blues | Dec 27, 2017 11:38:42 PM | 139

@142 blue

I offer Andre Vltchek's latest: Panic of Boris Johnson in Moscow – Agony of Rotting Empire

"For many years, one effective way for the Empire to control the world was to spread dark cynicism and nihilism, in order to ‘pacify’, to immobilize its colonies and even its own people living in Europe and North America. Now this strategy is backfiring: British and North American citizens are not only passive and unwilling to fight for the internationalist and left wing ideals, they are also unimpressed, even disgusted with their own rulers and regime. Yes, most of them are cynical about such countries like Russia, China or Venezuela, but they are also cynical about the corporatism, capitalism, as well as Western domestic and foreign policy. They are not willing to commit to anything. They trust nothing. They believe in very few things."

Vltchek is speaking of the ending of hundreds of years of oppression that has affected all of us - not one of us in this world can have escaped the long and deep influence of the imperialism of centuries that is now coming to its end in our very lifetimes. It is very important to see this, and not miss it!

There is a downward spiral of nihilism in this thread that says nothing meaningful, and offers only despair. What kind of communication is this?

We live in an age when the old empire is dying and can no longer scare us. It can no longer subjugate anyone who simply and strongly refuses to be cowed.

I recommend the article to all readers here, and take great pleasure in quoting more slices from it:

The Empire is rotting and it is in agony. It panics. It fights for its life.

Peace is dangerous. If the world is at peace, it is indisputable that the Western Empire would lose, in no time. It would be defeated on social, moral, creative and even economic fronts.
[...]
Now the masks have fallen off, and the ugly, gangrenous face of imperialism has been clearly exposed. Britain is simply not in the mood for refinements. It is brutal. It was always brutal. Now it is also, finally, honest.

It is all absolutely frightening, but it is also good, truly significant, that the West is suddenly behaving with such clarity.
[...]
As the Syrian city of Aleppo was celebrating its first anniversary of liberation, grateful citizens were carrying, in reverent silence, portraits of Russian soldiers who spilled their blood for the liberation of their nation.

The Syrian people know, they clearly understand, who ignited the war, and who came to their rescue.

Boris Johnson can insult Russia as much as he desires, but one thing he cannot deny: there are no men, women and children carrying portraits of British soldiers, be it in Iraq or Afghanistan, in Syria, Libya or Yemen.

And this last part is the key. The fact is we whites in the west are only a small part of the world, and if we disappear in a nihilistic despair, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that all the rest of the world - all that world that was enslaved and exploited by European imperialism and colonization - sees very clearly what is happening, and measures the relative strengths, and sees who has the power, and who will inherit the future.

Not one gram of negative energy can change the course of history that says the western plunder is coming rapidly to an end, and the former slaves will inherit this world, in a great upswell of positive energy.

We have a choice to join with them, as kindred.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 28, 2017 12:08:32 AM | 140

Great article, b and WONDERFUL comments!

A few notes on “oh what a tangled web.”

Donald Trump and George Soros have been business partners in Billions of Dollars of properties for more than a dozen years.

https://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-10-28/news/0410280265_1_donald-trump-soros-fund-management-blackacre-institutional-capital-management

In fact, they were co-defendants in a RICO suit.

https://www.pionline.com/article/20081009/ONLINE/810099993/developer-sues-soros-fortress-cerberus

And that includes the infamous 666 Fifth Avenue property Jared Kushner bought when he was in his 20s.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/18/realestate/commercial/the-kushner-companies-deal-for-666-fifth-avenue-avoids-foreclosure.html

After spending 17 years at Goldman Sachs, Trump’s new Treasure Secretary, Steven Mnuchin ran OneWest Bank in CA (where he earned the nickname “The Foreclosure King” for stealing homes from USAmerican families). Guess who he worked for? George frigging Soros.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2014/07/22/john-paulson-and-george-soros-score-big-selling-onewest-bank-for-3-4-billion/#32e7ee635ab0

Oh, and when she was CA Attorney General, Junior Senator from CA and Democratic Party 2020 hopeful, Kamala Harris prevented her underlings from prosecuting Mnuchin for the “thousands” of serious financial crimes they found that he'd committed.

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/05/kamala-harris-fails-to-explain-why-she-didnt-prosecute-steven-mnuchins-bank/


One last seemingly random note, Trump's Labor Secretary was the Attorney General who muscled into the arrest of child rapist and child sex slave trafficker, Jeffery Epstein, and saw to it that Epstein basically walked, and the worst of his crimes, and his "clients'" names were buried.

https://lawnewz.com/high-profile/trumps-new-labor-secretary-pick-protected-convicted-pedophile-billionaire-jeffrey-epstein-from-prosecution/

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/alexander-acosta-trump-jeffrey-epstein-plea-235096

“It’s a BIG CLUB, and you and I aren’t members.”
~ George Carlin

Posted by: Daniel | Dec 28, 2017 12:12:37 AM | 141

@Ort 16:
Great commentary. You are spot on.

Going a bit further, note that the position you describe for GG does not require monetary corruption. I believe both Snowden and GG are patriotic American exceptionalists. They simply want the US government to live up to its principles internally. They really have nothing against Empire per se, and don't want to act against U8 "national interest." That's why Snowden didn't just go immediately to Wikileaks. Snowden recognized the danger of bulk data collection and that its purpose was not truly the careful gathering of useful information, but rather to make available to government total information so that dissidents could be specifically targeted via a fishing expedition.

ES and GG are not necessarily opposed to Empire, the projection of American power internationally, and they only oppose tyrannical methods when applied internally. Their failure is patriotism itself rather than a commitment to universal principle. They don't understand that tyrannical behavior abroad is inevitably applied internally. So, they didn't want to do anything to jeopardize US tyrannical behavior abroad except where it pertained to US European allies. Bulk data collection abroad leading to fishing expeditions and the exposing the scandals of anti-American leaders is OK in their mind and not a subject of focus. They don't understand that application internally is inevitable.

But this really has little to do with Russia-gate. ES and GG did expose enough information for Americans to know that bulk data collection can and has been used for political purposes in this fishing expedition against Trump. The problem is that Americans forget too quickly (with corporate media help, of course). Media scoffed at and ridiculed Trump's tweet that his campaign was wiretapped, when in fact it was later revealed that it was indeed eavesdropped. As Snowden later pointed out, the media used a technical, literal definition of "wiretap" that was contrary to what Snowden explained was "common usage" in order to obfuscate Trump's intent in his tweet.

Posted by: William Rood | Dec 28, 2017 12:24:50 AM | 142

@b:
Aaron Mate's interview of Luke Harding, while well-intended, missed a very important point that has nothing to do with anybody withholding Snowden leaks. Aaron referred to "hacked emails," but VIPS has proven via timestamps and data transfer rates that the DNC emails were not hacked. They were leaked by an insider, just as Craig Murray and Julian Assange have maintained from the beginning. This goes to what Chris Hedges has referred to as "permanent lies." Lies, such as that DNC emails were hacked and sent to Wikileaks, are repeated so often that "hacked emails" becomes the default description in the media and is used even by journalists who are on the side of truth. Goebbels would be so proud.

Posted by: William Rood | Dec 28, 2017 12:39:30 AM | 143

Why we still do not see entire archive in Snowden possession?

I commented on the Intercept that at that time illegal NSA spying gave a material for real court cases and that people who were documented being spied upon must know that as well as public if person is a public person and Greenwald responded directly to my comment stating that it is to protect innocent mentioned in the documents.

I told him who gave them right to judge who is innocent victim and cover up crimes for "good" of victims.
All of that stinks to heaven exactly as was questioned within a year after Snowden revelation.
Cui Bono?
The some answers I found here:
https://contrarianopinion.wordpress.com/2015/01/06/snowden-affair-unasked-questions/

Posted by: Kalen | Dec 28, 2017 1:14:29 AM | 144

So if we don't have a war with nukes what is the next most potent weapon?

Finance of course is the biggest but historically backed by a world war to set the table for negotiations.

What event or series of events will set the table for the next set of negotiations over world finance like Bretton Woods after WWII? I think that there is enough debt floating around to become the domino default bomb that starts cascading.....Of course, I think this is being engineered to happen....and then the real decisions are made on how society moves forward, IMO....and you and I won't even be flies on the wall.....

Will the BS White/European/American/Western cultural narrative of Might Makes Right finally meet its rightful demise as a negotiating tool between nations of the world? I agree with Grieved that the only thing holding us enduring slaves back is our collective will to change the status quo.

If not now, when do we throw of the shackles of usury? How can we continue to live with such a cretin concept?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 28, 2017 1:34:10 AM | 145

Alas,I do not see a lot of concrete evidence to back many of the claims of CIA media manipulation in this article - citing the speculations or unproven assertions of other journalists and writers varies little from the attacks on media outlets made in this article.

I do not doubt that our intel agencies do manipulate media globally. But this article smacks of Trumpian Deep State conspiracy BS. I remain unconvinced that this is something to get upset about.

Posted by: Tomonthebeach | Dec 28, 2017 1:39:50 AM | 146

New leaks shows that anyone Of “Russian Descent” is Now Targeted In the Senate Investigation
https://www.facebook.com/TheYoungTurks/posts/10155314793959205

Posted by: test | Dec 28, 2017 2:28:42 AM | 147

Psycho @ 148:

I'm sorry to say that the "Might makes Right" doctrine will never be eradicated. The Multi-Polar World Order is the next best thing, as it ensures balance of power on this floating rock. As for the next potent weapon, it's already being used and as you mentioned, finance. However, given the retarded people in positions of authority, I'm expecting Bio-weapons. After all, it is considered the poor man's nuke.

Posted by: Ian | Dec 28, 2017 2:36:38 AM | 148

Earlier, the question was raised, what, if the entire Snowden/NSA story would be nothing but a distraction, it would be intended to be distracting from.

There appears to be at least one answer that makes more sense, than any other possibility. Given that nothing has had the potential to bring about a rather violent revolution by the American masses so far, including, but not limited to illegal wars for profits, or the acute health care crisis among American children and their increasing homelessness through abject poverty, it seems that next to nothing bears the potential for an uprising, as mandated in the declaration of Independence.

This answer lies in the fact, that the U.S. is no longer a democracy and has not been one for decades, that the needs and will of the citizenry is completely irrelevant. There lies great potential for a revolution in the fact, that the public has no more influence on policies that directly and detrimentally affect it.

An article by Eric Zuesse explains this fact in detail. When one realizes, what would suffice to distract the public from this fact, the understanding arises that everything to keep the people's minds busy will do. Most of all stories that involve "whistle blowing". It is through whistle blowing, that the public is made aware of certain modi operandi, that paint parts of the government as acting unconstitutional, overreaching, or worse - leading to a public outcry without further consequences.

A form of organized dissent with little or no adverse effects to TPTB.

Here is the likely reason for these massive distractions:


The needs of the many are sacrificed for the greed and corruption of the few

When that sinks in, the religiously corrupt establishment is in deep shit.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Dec 28, 2017 2:37:53 AM | 149

lol @
It’s a trap! Guardian’s Luke Harding goes on Russia collusion book promo, grilled for actual facts
https://www.reddit.com/user/JeanUkeev/comments/7lwigx/its_a_trap_guardians_luke_harding_goes_on_russia/

Posted by: test | Dec 28, 2017 6:29:45 AM | 150

test@153

See Aaron Mate's interview with Luke Harding on The Real News on You Tube. Luke Harding cannot answer Mate's questions. His arguments in support of Russian 'collision' seem based largely on innuendo and gossip. 'I speak Russian and have lived in Russia and talked to Russians, so take if from me, I know the truth. Moreover Putin is trash!' He doesn't even take the trouble to define what collusion means in this affair.

Posted by: Quentin | Dec 28, 2017 6:42:31 AM | 151

@fast freddy at #126: my apologies, fast Freddie. I'd gotten my links tangled. here is the link to wikileaks on Israel. https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:Israel

Posted by: wendy davis | Dec 28, 2017 9:02:28 AM | 152

>>>> cdrake@hotmail.com | Dec 27, 2017 10:16:55 PM | 140

find the footage of the house that assange stays in england very similar to the rothshield place tom cruise goes back to the day after his eyes wide shut party.

Not really.

Where Assange lives now - the Ecuadorian embassy, in an apartment block behind Harrods.

Where Assange lived while on bail - Ellingham Hall, Norfolk, a country house.

The Rothschild's place - Mentmore Towers, a stately home. The building although built for the Rothschilds was subsequently owned by the Maharishi Foundation.

So, no similarities whatsoever but I doubt that'll stop you repeating this bullshit when it suits you.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Dec 28, 2017 9:39:03 AM | 153

>>>> nottheonly1 | Dec 28, 2017 2:37:53 AM | 152

This answer lies in the fact, that the U.S. is no longer a democracy and has not been one for decades,.....

Sorry to disabuse you of the idea but the United States has never been a democracy. I always have a good chuckle when some dumb American complains about the lack of democracy in Cuba and Russia.........

There lies great potential for a revolution.....

Not really, they are too much like sheep to ever revolt.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Dec 28, 2017 9:45:54 AM | 154

b: “One hand washes the other..”

Naturally I know *absolutely* nothing about Bezos’ and Greenwald’s dealing with any tri-letter agency.

In Greenwald’s case, one sees careerism. He was fine when he stuck to his remit, e.g. lawyerly critiques of the Obama admin. (Actually these were ++ good imho.) Yet such scribbling is hardly lucrative, dashing, flattering. Becoming involved in ‘the new media’ - in a novel channel the internet and with a sort of ersatz edginess (the Intercept, what a telling and horrible name) was an open avenue. It requires all kinds of compromises, which he made. Hasn’t worked out well - I agree with b’s description. Yet for the likes of GG getting involved at a lowish level in international intrigue (with Snowden — GG’s lover being detained at Heathrow — moving to Brazil / and idk what all) is a big step up in self-congratulatory importance and certainly moolah as well.

As for Bezos - robber barons, monopolists and extreme touters of consumer goods are generally not content to figure the price of hair-dryers and how to stiff their employees, they want to participate in higher reaches. Sadly today contributing to the local symphoneee orchestra doesn’t make the grade. Buying newspaper(s) is of course a classic move, intellectual pretensions and control of information can marry in smooth smiling symbiosis and be quite unassailable. Participating in the direction and organisation of the world is a thrill and at the same time ‘protects’ the business. What the agendas of the different parties are is often not even considered when facing…flattering offers.

Posted by: Noirette | Dec 28, 2017 9:46:05 AM | 155

>>>> Ort | Dec 27, 2017 5:35:03 PM | 119

Eventually, despite his efforts to seem nominally open-minded towards 9/11 skeptics, it became clear that to GG, pursuing 9/11 truth was both a distraction and a nuisance. 9/11 truth is simply not part of GG's agenda.

FFS, are there still 9/11 Truthers out there? That is a horse that's been flogged to death - actually it should have been buried years ago so the worms could reduce it to nothing.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Dec 28, 2017 9:52:35 AM | 156

@ 159

Yes. :))

Posted by: Forest | Dec 28, 2017 10:00:43 AM | 157

The Intercept has a piece up about the interrogation of Reality Winner. At the end, they state they are contributing $50K to her defense. I went to the comments to suggest they pay ALL of her legal fees, but found I had to sign in. A new "improved" system of comments had been implemented.

Posted by: Bart Hansen | Dec 28, 2017 10:21:43 AM | 158

London Review of Books - What we don't talk about when we talk of Russian hacking

Posted by: somebody | Dec 28, 2017 10:34:41 AM | 159

Posted by: Bart Hansen | Dec 28, 2017 10:21:43 AM | 161

The Intercept has a piece up about the interrogation of Reality Winner. At the end, they state they are contributing $50K to her defense.

She didn't help herself if she is indeed the source of the document sent to The Intercept. As I overheard a relative who was formerly a senior member of the British judiciary say to a relative who had been arrested

You never fucking talk to police until you have a lawyer present

Bear in mind that in England the police have to caution you before they can ask you question, anything said before the caution is pretty much inadmissible in court, the police interrogator can't lie to you and entrapment is not allowed.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Dec 28, 2017 11:01:30 AM | 160

to psychohistorian, if i remember correctly. (however unlikely that is.)

‘The Petro-Yuan Bombshell’ by Pepe Escobar, dec. 25 2017

most interestingly and surprising, this:
"The decision follows the establishment by Beijing, in October 2015, of the China International Payments System (CIPS). CIPS has a cooperation agreement with the private, Belgium-based SWIFT international bank clearing system, through which virtually every global transaction must transit.

What matters, in this case, is that Beijing – as well as Moscow – clearly read the writing on the wall when, in 2012, Washington applied pressure on SWIFT; blocked international clearing for every Iranian bank; and froze $100 billion in Iranian assets overseas as well as Tehran’s potential to export oil. In the event Washington might decide to slap sanctions on China, bank clearing though CIPS works as a de facto sanctions-evading mechanism.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/12/25/the-petro-yuan-bombshell/

Posted by: wendy davis | Dec 28, 2017 11:38:26 AM | 161

Someone asked here...

Why did Snowden not give a full copy of his archive to Wikileaks...?

Well...this question becomes a lot more interesting considering that Assange claimed to have helped Snowden escape in 2013 in the first place...

This from USA Today June 24, 2013...

'Australian native and WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has managed to orchestrate the country-hopping flight of a accused U.S. spy despite being holed up in the Ecuadorean Embassy in London..'

Funny then that Assange does not end up with the trove...but The Guardian does...

And of course we all know that Assange is the Real McCoy...

After all...his street creds are impeccable...

He released so much shocking stuff about US malfeasance with those diplomatic cables...including that famous 'collateral murder' clip of Iraq journos getting smoked by hellfire missile...

Yep...he's the real deal all right...

And then he becomes a big star...

Including the cover of Forbes...

Nothing wrong with that of course...

But then...once Assange's cred is cemented firmly... those wiki 'leaks' take an interesting turn...

Remember the Arab Spring...?

Well...how could we forget that Assange claimed credit for getting that whole ball rolling...?

In his famous Rolling Stone interview he is asked...

'WikiLeaks has been credited, even by its critics, with fueling the Arab Spring, and even Occupy Wall Street. Was this your plan? Did you imagine you could have this kind of impact?

Assange replies...

'We planned for most of what has occurred over the past 12 months. It is fair to say we're unexpectedly delighted that those plans came to fruition.'

Wikileaks then went on to release US cables that directly targeted Putin and his 'capo' Silvio Berlusconi...

'WikiLeaks cables: Berlusconi 'profited from secret deals' with Putin

...headlined...who else...the good old Guardian...

Ahh yes...the sweet smell of...what was it that the voters sent to Treasury Boss Munchkin this yuletide...?

More 'damaging' Guardian/Wikileaks revelations followed...

...damaging, that is, to Empire's number one enemy...

'WikiLeaks cables claim Vladimir Putin has secret wealth hidden abroad'

And of course let's not leave ol' Syria and Assad/Hitler out of the wikileaks greatest hits...

'Why the WikiLeaks cable about Syrian regime is spot on.'

Once again...it's the good old Guardian...who else...

So let's step back and review...

Wikileaks explodes on the scene with hugely damaging revelations [but not really damaging enough for pitchfork time]...

Now that everyone is watching and this Titan 'whistleblower/journalist' is firmly pidgeonholed in the role of Public Enemy Number One...

...the storyline neatly shifts to undermining the same Middle East 'regimes' that are long known to be on the neocon hit list of seven countries in five years...

'How convenient'...as the Church Lady might say...

Some of the comments here are pretty unbelievable...

They fall into two categories...

The first says it's all a conspiracy theory that the CIA is manipulating the media...[Operation Mockingbird having been long forgotten...or never really happened...]

The second is even more interesting...

Here the idea is that the state intelligence apparatus consisting of at least 100,000 persons...all of whom are yet to discover their opposable thumbs...

well...they just aren't that clever to really pull the wool...

We the sheeple being so smart of course...not knowing anything about the arts of manipulation... sheep dipping...etc...

So we have three international stars who have rocketed to fame...Assange, Snowden and Greenwald...

And of course in the background we have Omidyap...a devout globalist who specializes in 'education'

We also have the Guardian...oh yeah people can mock Luke Harding here because he is so dumb and obvious...

But it would never occur to us that a proper kabuki theater requires a full cast of characters...from dumb and dumber to...well pretty darn clever and conniving...

Inoculation is a wonderful thing...especially when you don't even feel the needle...


Posted by: FB | Dec 28, 2017 12:00:20 PM | 162

@ 165

Statement: One Love

Posted by: Forest | Dec 28, 2017 12:17:04 PM | 163

FB@165,

The problem I have with your approach is twofold. First, it ascribes an unbelievably high-level of acumen and competency to federal intelligence agencies and spymasters; and I just don't think it's plausible to believe they really possess such demonically efficient competency. A lot of them are hacks; careerists and yes-men with lots of powerful fancy tools but little actual intellectual talent or independence. They really believe a lot of the stupid shit they say, and they are allowed to get away with whatever conspiracies or false-flags they engineer not because of sheer brilliancy, but because the corporate media is at this point totally captured by these agencies--for the most part, again, not out of devilish brilliance but out of venality and stupidity. The last election cycle showed you how very afraid the powers that be were that they were losing hold on the narrative, largely on account of the growing awareness among the populace of the studied emptiness of network and cable media. The Russia-gate, "fake news", social media stuff, Google news algorithms, erasure of network neutrality, etc. are quite obviously defensive and to my mind panicked measures taken by an elite that recognizes it has lost the ability to monopolize the narrative and wants desperately to get it back. The second reason I think your view is problematic is that it strikes me as politically impotent and even nihilist. It comes very close to giving up all hope that meaningful political action is still possible. I say this as somebody who feels the pull of your stance very strongly indeed. So my criticism is intended as a friendly one born from my own wrestling with these issues.

Posted by: WJ | Dec 28, 2017 12:40:17 PM | 164

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1ZAqCi1mhs

Ive always suspected they were pure evil, but I had no idea there was so much evidence.
The Clintons are serial killers.Fact.

The idea that Pooty preferred Trump to serial killing Hillary is entirely farce. He knows how limited Potus' actual power is. He has way more savvy than anybody in the white house, and I agree with @20, of course the Kremlin would do everything in its power to influence the elections, this is the real world. The US can recognize its own fart. What I find amazing is how these guys are making such a shitstorm about it, instead of figuring out a way to hold autonomous elections.
Jesus, I wish they would just stop whining.

Posted by: dan | Dec 28, 2017 12:43:25 PM | 165

FBI & CIA SMOKE OUT ANONYMOUS SPEECH
…or register as a Russian troll & end up in a concentration camp.

In its war on truth the Deep State has renamed truth as "Russian disinformation". Anyone speaking the truth is a "Russian troll". It is no wonder that many people wanting to speak the truth or express dissent chose anonymity or pseudonymity. Anonymous political speech is a central part of the right to free speech.

In the 1960s, the FBI made a list of leftists to put in concentration camps in an "emergency", under the Emergency Detention Act. Why would "Russian trolls" fare any better?

With NSA dragnet surveillance, true anonymity becomes difficult, if not impossible. More internet-savvy writers use VPN services to hide their identity. The best VPN services and the ones most likely to circumvent the NSA dragnet are hosted in Russia. In one of the latest hoaxes CIA and FBI ordered Facebook and Twitter to suspend hundreds of accounts posting political speech. Supposedly the accounts were trying to "sow discord in U.S. society" and "destroy American democracy". A hoax story was leaked to the Washington Post and repeated thousands of times by MSM fake news media claiming the accounts were owned and operated by a "Russian troll factory" in St. Petersburg named "Internet Research Agency". No basis for this claim exist, apart from the fact that the accounts may have sometimes used Russian IP-addresses.

The WaPo article is an overlength rant about how the US constitution and laws are preventing the CIA from conducting its cyber war on truth. A large part of the article is dedicated to how FBI first identified the pseudonymous author "Alice Donovan" as a "probable Russian troll" and went about harassing leftist publications that had published her work.

P.S. - I think I may have spoken with Alice Donovan. She may actually be Sophie Mangal of Inside Syria Media Center. The media center publishes in both Arabic and English. The English language articles lack originality. It may be because they are (Google) translation of articles in Arabic, which again are summaries of work published in English by Western writers.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Dec 28, 2017 12:56:23 PM | 166

@Ghostship #157

Well, I should have been more explicit about that 'Democracy' statement. 'A democratic Republic' with a two party Plutocracy would have been more to the point. Alas, the reference about having been a Democracy was based on local government. On the local level, communities we're able to elect their desired county council members. With the advent of an open dictatorship after the pulverized skyscrapers, the steady March towards the elimination of any participation on behalf of the population has rendered even the communal participation moot. County council members have no whatsoever say in their Police departments' aquisition of of , paimilitary gear with DHS grants, withdrawn from tax payers' monies.

A revolution is afoot when the majority in this country will either have to accept that it has no longer anything to say, or change the status quo.

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Dec 28, 2017 1:22:18 PM | 167

Great article. Good discussions as well.

And as far as the government plans for us all, their many actors and the real truth; its being reported that crypto-currency was an NSA idea. They may well be behind Bitcoin. Crash-proof?

Bibliotecpleyaeds article

Posted by: John | Dec 28, 2017 1:34:58 PM | 168

@ 169
Hey! Where can I sign up? Fucking house is getting cold...

Posted by: Forest | Dec 28, 2017 1:52:16 PM | 169

WJ...

I think you are just afraid to let go of the notion that even Assange might be a cutout/patsy...

I too say this respectfully...but also reciprocally...as your rebuttal vector was aimed at my own 'stance' as you put it...

Note that I am not implying that either Assange or Snowden are some kind of double-agents...

I am saying they may be patsies...

It is pointless to argue how smart/dumb the state security apparatus really is...

We do all agree however that they wield virtually unlimited resources...

So let's instead examine a historical example of such a patsy scenario...

Maybe you are too young to remember the Patty Hearst Saga from the early '70s...

I was young then too...but did remember being hugely confused about the entire thing...nothing made any sense...

Was Patty Hearst a patsy...?

And who was this 'terrorist' Symbionese Liberation Army that suddenly sprung up out of nowhere...

...'kidnapped' an heiress of one of the most iconic families in America...and whose 'leader' ended up conveniently silenced in a shootout with the cops...?

Just reading the known facts and without any kind of speculation and conspiracy theorizing...we see this...

Here is a timeline from Slate in 2002...

'1971: Founded in the San Francisco Bay area by Russell Little and Robyn Sue Steiner.

The group is a loose band of Berkeley radicals focused on prison reform, poverty, and race.

Most members are middle- and upper-class whites.'

But then something very interesting happens...

1973: Donald David DeFreeze takes over the Symbionese Liberation Army.

SLA co-founder Robyn Sue Steiner flees to England when DeFreeze threatens to kill her.

DeFreeze pushes the group toward violence...

So...this group of young campus radicals/ idealists...is taken over by a heavy duty career criminal...?

...who just happens to 'escape' from prison...

And who also just happens to have a long history as a police informant...and links to the intelligence community...

...and who is described as an 'agent provocateur'...?

An NYT story from May, 1974 tells us this about DeFreeze/Cinque...

'...the records also show that he set up the arrest of a confederate in a stolen gun case...

...The Los Angeles Police Department detective who handled the case became a key intelligence officer who dealt with informants involving black militants...'

Well that all sounds rather plausible doesn't it...?

Nothing to see here...

Their first act of violence under their new 'leader' is to kill Marcus Foster...the first black superintendent of the Oakland school district...

Oops...that was just a big mistake you see...because the SLA was really about empowering blacks...

Then comes the blockbuster...

...The Patty Hearst 'kidnapping'...soon after which she is shown on national TV shooting a machine gun to help SLA members escape a shoplifting heist...

The very next day we are treated to a live national TV shootout spectacle the likes of which has never been seen before or since...

De Freeze and five more sacrifical lambs are killed in a south-central LA shootout with SWAT in which over 5,000 rounds are fired...

But remarkably...the story continues marching on for another year and a half...with the surviving members...including Hearst...regrouping and soldiering on...

Eventually these patsies are arrested...some do time...Hearst is convicted [people died in a bank robbery]

...But Jimmy Carter commutes her sentence...and eventually Clinton pardons her...

The fact that this whole saga mesmerized the nation for more than two years...all during the Vietnam meltdown...Watergate...the Black Panthers...

Well...it's all just one big happy coinkidink...?

Compared to this mega production from the national security kabuki theater...I would say that today's Assange...Snowden and Manning Saga is really quite modest...


Posted by: FB | Dec 28, 2017 2:18:58 PM | 170

@Ghost Ship | Dec 28, 2017 9:39:03 AM | 154

And do you know how is that he has managed to own such a house? ( Assange, I mean )
Any idea of where he makes his living from?

Posted by: elsi | Dec 28, 2017 2:27:54 PM | 171

@FB | Dec 28, 2017 2:18:58 PM | 171

I mostly agree with your input on Assange, Snowden and so on.
BTW, I do not know if you could help me, but, I want to know whether it is not allowed here tp publish anything criticizing Bannon.
I say it because just some minutes ago I tried to publish a comment linking an article debunking him ( which btw, was also posted by me yesterday along with some excerpts translated by me from Spanish into English ) and the comment never saw the light as happened yesterday.

I ask you since nobody from the orgnaization here ( not even "james", who seems to be moderator/orgnanizer or "something"...and laways agree in all too... )has answered me why this has happened, and you seem to be a kinda "dissident" here, like me, not "following the leader" in all what he says, as is the custom in all the supposed "alt-media" I have reading so far for the last 4 years.

Some commenters here, quite astonisingly, are always in agreement with "b", but also with "The Saker", and also with the authors at "Fort Russ", and that is not possible to my understanding of what "critical thinking" is, and it happens that these commenters are the most saluted/ promoted by the crowd/staff here....I am starting feeling the fly in the ear....as has happened to me with every "alt-media" I have been.....

Posted by: elsi | Dec 28, 2017 3:02:03 PM | 172

Hi Elsi...

Was that you that wrote about your experience helping out as a moderator on the Saker blog at some time past...?

If so...then I appreciate your input on that...

'Saker' really appreciates his little Amen Corner on his site...it's really pretty silly...

You may be interested in seeing his latest article on Unz where he pens a quite extraordinary 3,400 word essay...bemoaning the 'troll' attacks on his 'work' on the Unz site...

...which...unlike his own...lets the chips fly freely...as they should...

Anyway...I really don't know what to say about your posting troubles here...I have no connection to anyone at this site...

I do leave my real email when posting so that should be available to the mods...but I have never had a message from them...

I do appreciate b's work here...and have never had any problem with having anything blocked...

I would say that he does not seem like the type to censor any comments here...

I could be wrong of course...but I would say it is more likely a technical problem...

I had some difficulty posting something one time...and it was really frustrating...never did get it the comment up...

But a couple of days later the site was working fine...

Posted by: FB | Dec 28, 2017 3:23:03 PM | 173


@ Ghost Ship | Dec 28, 2017 9:39:03 AM | 154

The comment that you refer to is not there:
„ >>>> cdrake@hotmail.com | Dec 27, 2017 10:16:55 PM | 140
find the footage of the house that assange stays in england very similar to the rothshield place tom cruise goes back to the day after his eyes wide shut party.“

Posted by: Hausmeister | Dec 28, 2017 3:28:07 PM | 174

FB@171,

Thanks for the response. I actually agree with your implied analysis of the SLA / Patty Hearst affair, and I too sometimes think that the sophistication and scope of these kind of disinformation operations in the 1960s and 1970s were far greater than their (granted for the sake of the argument) Snowden/Assange/Greenwald corollaries of today. I think that is partly because technological advances in communication and media (smartphones, blogs, social platforms) make it more difficult to control the narrative of an orchestrated event lasting longer than one or two days. That's why today we are more likely to be confronted domestically with orchestrated or allowed single-day-long events (I myself would include at least some of the events of 9/11 in this set) rather than the relatively drawn out operations like Hearst and perhaps the acid/hippie scene of the 1960s (plausibly understood as an attempt to discredit and distract radical campus anti-war movements). The 24/hr news-cycle caters to this approach as well, with its assumptive erasure of history every single day. But perhaps I am oversimplifying a bit.

I agree with you that Assange may or may not be what you claim he could be. But even if he is that thing, there is nothing that would necessarily prevent his intended political function being overwhelmed or transformed by or leading to an actual political effect that is unplanned and uncontrolled. There is I think always an element of contingency, fortune, chance that can never fully be orchestrated in advance, and it is within this space that (I believe) hope exists.

Posted by: WJ | Dec 28, 2017 3:36:51 PM | 175

@FB | Dec 28, 2017 3:23:03 PM | 174

Well, it is not possible that it is a technical problem since has happened three times already. Just tried to post the article in the "open thread" and as the previous times, was wiped out immediately...The article about Bannon...I was asking you, since you seem from what you say a long time reader/ commenter here, if anytime there have been a problem posting something agaisnt Bannon. Tell me about this, please. The high oppinion all of you have of "b" is already quite obvious to me, thanks, I am even starting getting sick of the same flattery I have witnessed at every of these "alt-media". It is concretely the issue of Bannon what I wanted to know to see whether it is worth for me continue posting here.

I am not willing to put my real email in any blog belonging to the so called "alt-media", since for what I have tested so far are all part of the same "dissinformation operation", and I am quite new here yet...

Posted by: elsi | Dec 28, 2017 3:38:48 PM | 176

One aspect completely confuses me. I can't think of any writer who's done more to increase healthy skepticism on the story of Russia's hacking of the DNC, and other alleged Russian acts, than Greenwald. If it's cover, it's pretty darn good.

On a different aspect, I fully understand line by The Who, Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss. But I had an assignment in Ukraine during the prior, Putin-friendly regime. While criticism of the new crowd may be justified - I've no great knowledge of them or of behind the scenes backers - I can attest to the keen frustration with the corrupt oligarchs of the former regime and with what that corruption was doing to the country. The young were particularly frustrated with the endemic corruption that was taking their opportunities and hopes away. The Who provide a great caution, but people shouldn't forget what made regime change so attractive, particularly to young activists, who conducted themselves pretty well.

Back to hack, I have always been of the opinion that regarding the alleged hack of the DNC, it doesn't matter to me who the snake is if he offers me an apple off the tree of knowledge, as long as it's the straight scoop, particularly a scoop I'm not getting elsewhere. Does motivation matter? Sure, to some extent, and I can certainly think of other potential actors with their own motives. But mostly I'd like the apple.


Posted by: Skip | Dec 28, 2017 3:39:34 PM | 177

When Snowden’s revelations became public there was some discussion about whether he was still working for the CIA. The speculation was that Snowden might’ve ‘taken down’ a rival agency that had grown too powerful. Later, when a trove of CIA online tools (“Vault7”) were revealed, I thought that NSA might be returning the favor.

Snowden started a debate. We will not know if there was more going on unless someone writes a book. That’s not likely to happen for many years.

<> <> <> <>

As for b’s speculation about the media: CIA has history of media control. USA govt repeal of the ban on propaganda https://www.rt/usa/smith-mundt-domestic-propaganda-121”>RT: US Ends Ban on ‘Domestic Propaganda’ simply allowed CIA to be more active (via intermediaries, of course).

I think the charge that Russia influenced the public election is just standard smearing of a USA adversary. Also, hysterical opposition is a one of the key characteristics of the ‘faux populist leader’ model of executive office. Recall how Obama was hounded by the ‘birthers’ and accusations that he was a Muslim socialist.

Also: Trump has effectively turned the page on Obama’s treachery while pursuing a more belligerent FP. Would Hillary have been any different? Trump’s signing of an NDAA which depicts Russia and China as enemies (“revisionist powers”) is proof that Trump is no different.

Instead of obsessing over Snowden and Greenwald, we should be talking about the rigged 2016 elections. CIA probably did more to influence them than did Russia. Consider Hillary’s supposed health problem and being carried into the van, for example. Concerns for her heath came and went so quickly. And an Eastern European man with no prior interest in politics just happened to get a video?! Press was unconcerned about who he was.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Dec 28, 2017 3:39:36 PM | 178

Hi Elsi...

I have not been here that long actually...maybe a few months...I haven't actually posted all that much...

I thought you were here longer than me...

I guess I was also mistaken about you having been involved with the Saker blog...?

That must have been someone else...but I do remember her saying here how she was for some time a moderator there but became disillusioned...

I would also disagree that I am some kind of 'fan' of b's writing here...

I think he does a good job...but I do not hesitate to speak my mind if I do not agree...

I find a lot of the commenters here quite ridiculous...and I sometimes say so directly...

But I also see that there is a wide range of opinion...

Now you have me curious about this Bannon thing...

I have really no interest in Bannon or Trump to tell you the truth...

I think Trump is a conman who has just stiffed the people with a huge tax giveaway to the super rich...

He has an adviser who is a supporter of illegal settlements in the West Bank...and who is scheming with KSA Crown Prince...

Nothing good here...

I do like Tillerson...and I think he is trying to move in a positive direction...but Trump is the problem...

As for Bannon specifically...I am clueless...he just seems to me like a typical political back room player...that's it...

I would give a simple suggestion about your post...try not putting in a link...that may be the problem...

See if it works without a link and then go from there...

Posted by: FB | Dec 28, 2017 3:56:34 PM | 179

@ elsi | Dec 28, 2017 3:02:03 PM | 173
I regularly read this log since about a year. Living in Europe, being a leftist, kindof, I liked the quality and diverse comments and finally started to gift money. That said that I found many comments here shocking, especially those anti-semitic ones. And many of those drifted away into quite bizarre regions.
I often had troubles with sending comments. I never found out why comment 1 went through and another was blocked. b told my by PM that there is no censorship reason for those blocked comments. As this fits to the facts I believe him. There is a button „Preview". Try to use it before you click „Post“. Helped me a lot.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Dec 28, 2017 4:15:28 PM | 180

@Hausmeister | Dec 28, 2017 4:15:28 PM | 181

I am using "pre-view" since the very first day I published here my first post, thanks.
That´s not the problem, I test my comments several times since I am kinda the "Queen of the tipos", and even doing so, some slice ( so sorry, consider that English is not my mother-tong and my scarce knowledge of it I had it almost forgotten till around 4 years ago started reading "alt-media"....).
I really wonder why none of you answers my question about Bannon...Is it a taboo here?

Posted by: elsi | Dec 28, 2017 4:32:27 PM | 181

rhet #20-dumbest comment about PDJT since 01/21/17.

Posted by: sejmon | Dec 28, 2017 4:41:37 PM | 182

WJ...

Thanks for your thoughtful reply...

My whole approach is to be suspicious...

Just because Assange [let's say for the sake of argument] is being manipulated for some purpose or other...

...does not mean that we should have no hope...

There is always hope...truth is a very powerful force...and I believe that the enemies of truth...no matter how powerful they may be...cannot win...

You said yourself that people have become more skeptical...I agree with that assessment fully...

Many are realizing that we are mushrooms...kept in the dark and fed manure...

In the Soviet Union...the manure was so obvious that it was a joke...nobody believed the crap...

But afterwards...we saw this pithy truism emerge...

'Everything they told us about communism was a lie...

But everything they told us about capitalism turned out to be the truth...'

The harder they try with their deceptions and machinations...the more they fail...

Truth is like that...people have a nose for BS...we're not totally helpless...our own instincts are our best ally...

Not some figure that is placed in the limelight by either chance or by design...

The bigger problem is with the willful believers...

I see plenty of those in this very comment section...

Nothing you can do about 'belief'

Try arguing with a Jehovah's Witness sometime...see how far you get...

It is always worthwhile to try to start with what is known definitely...and then try to use simple logic...

For instance...

We know that Bradley Manning was a lowly private...yet he had access to reams of highly sensitive documents...?

Snowden was a 'contractor'...yet he too had access to same...

Is this the way to keep state secrets...?

One has to wonder...

Or is this the way to intentionally let some planted information slip through...?

And then make a big show about it...?

Assange was an obscure figure involved in hacking...

He was given all these 'secrets' by an army private...

This sets the whole media circus on fire...?

Interesting...

Then we see that the same media turns on a dime and takes advantage of much of that material to actually attack their enemies...ie mainly Putin and Russia...

So who is in the driver's seat...?

Assange...?

I doubt it...he seems more like a rather ordinary man who is letting his own fame/notoriety go to his head...what with all his credit-taking for the big 'news' stories in which he appears to be at the center...

From the Arab Spring...to Occupy...to Russian Hacking etc...

He loves the attention...that is quite clear...he even used his celebrity status to get sex from groupies...that much is true...

But he is also quite clearly a bumbler...

We cannot know or even speculate if these leaks were planned...

And whether or not Assange just happened to be the right patsy at the right time...?

It doesn't matter...the important thing is that we take into account this possibility...

...before becoming believers...

In any case...what does the security apparatus have to lose by now making Assange, Snowden and Manning sacrificial lambs...?

As the Hearst case shows...they have been quite willing to fry plenty of innocent lives in much more violent ways...

As for Greenwald...like I said he is a joke...the controlled opposition...the allowable dissent...

Just because he has been debunking the Russia hacking thing means nothing...

Anyone with half a brain knows the thing is nothing but vapor...

So we are supposed to just give him credit on everything carte-blanche...?

I see a lot of stupidity here...

Posted by: FB | Dec 28, 2017 4:44:07 PM | 183

@FB | Dec 28, 2017 3:56:34 PM | 180

I did not put the link either, but the hyperlink, as was required to me by some ( in a very gross way ) at my first posts here, when I was ignorant of the fact that this site, curiously, gets elongated by long links...How I was going to know that, by asking to my crystal ball...?

Bannon is way off from being a back room political player without significance....Have you seen any comment criticizing Bannon at this site anytime since you are around here? Please, FB, ask this question....I am very accustomed to the runabouts at other sites by supposed commenters who come in mass to torearme to try to get me out of my nerves...without success....ever....

Posted by: elsi | Dec 28, 2017 4:44:34 PM | 184

@ elsi | Dec 28, 2017 4:32:27 PM | 182

„I really wonder why none of you answers my question about Bannon...Is it a taboo here?“
I do not know anything about this Bannon worth to report here. So not taboo. About your blocking problem I have no idea but have no second thoughts about it.

Posted by: Hausmeister | Dec 28, 2017 4:49:50 PM | 185

@ elsi about MoA commenting

I doubt if Bannon or much of anyone cannot be commented about here. The way you say what you do might be offensive so I suggest you stay civil but continue to try and find your place at the comment bar. To the extent possible I think the patrons here try and self moderate and b does what he does behind the scenes and tells us occasionally when he has cleaned up a posting/thread of offensive patrons and banned their return.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 28, 2017 4:52:14 PM | 186

@ elsi who asks specifically if Bannon has been criticized at MoA

Yes, Bannon has been call the Karl Rove of Trump's presidency as well as other characterizations. He is an ex-Wall Street guy with an agenda and from what I can see, no scruples or humanitarian leanings.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 28, 2017 4:57:39 PM | 187

>>>> elsi | Dec 28, 2017 2:27:54 PM | 172

And do you know how is that he has managed to own such a house? ( Assange, I mean )

Which house do you think he owns? The Ecuadorian Embassy?

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Dec 28, 2017 5:00:25 PM | 188

As for Bannon specifically...I am clueless...

@FB | Dec 28, 2017 3:56:34 PM | 180

This is why I wanted to try to illuminate you a bit about him. In that article, "dissapeared" three times already, they were explaining how he had a great part in the spreading of "fake-journalism" through his site Breitbart which played a huge role in stirring up the masses against immigrants, feminism and the left in general, so that nailing the last nail in the coffin of the left in the US. His megalomania led him ( and his associates in Breitbart, like Flynn, who directed Big Journalism there, and so most probably the responsible of the European branchs.....) to think that he could do the same in Europe, but here we have enough experience in fascism to recognize it even when comes disguised as "fake-Leninism".....Also they were explaining his links to the great capitalists in the US and how Trump and him are buddies and will continue to do business while the working class scamed by them continue languishing....

I was linking also this video posted on Twitter in my second intent:

Trip to the downtown district of Skid Row, in Los Angeles, California, USA. Only in this district there are around 58,000 homeless people. The hidden side of capitalism.

https://twitter.com/pechosboys/status/946423570502123520

Posted by: elsi | Dec 28, 2017 5:12:12 PM | 189

@Ghost Ship | Dec 28, 2017 5:00:25 PM | 189

Obvioulsy not...the one you was linking in Ellingham Hall, Norfolk...an expensive one for sure for a single....

Posted by: elsi | Dec 28, 2017 5:17:22 PM | 190

Elsi writes: Some commenters here, quite astonisingly, are always in agreement with "b", but also with "The Saker", and also with the authors at "Fort Russ", and that is not possible to my understanding of what "critical thinking" is

Actually that is what critical thinking is all about. We read disparate sources of information and decide what seems sensible and what does not. b, from my point is pretty good most of the time but does make some errors (in my opinion).

Saker is very interesting. He has some very excellent analyses of breaking news. For example, he called the street demonstrations in Kiev in late November, 2013, exactly what they were and how dangerous they turned out to be. A month later, b commented that those demonstrations meant nothing. Now that was one big miss by b and Saker called it. Does that mean I prefer Saker. Of course not. He is an incredible nut case on so many other levels. He is a 911 truther for one. There was a great schism in the Christian church 1,100 years ago between the 'orthodox' and the Roman Catholics. Saker still considers the theological debates that happened a millenium ago as important. He seems to hate all Roman Catholics based on these 1000 year old arguments.

Fort-rus is basically news assembly site with a many commentaries by Popov and others. They often make horrendous errors in citations but they are a good source to find out dbates going on inside Russia (especially if you want to know what the communists are doing (btw, this site seems to be coming from Serbia, not Russia).

So poor Elsi, it is not a contradiction that many of us read and reference b, Saker, and Fort-russ. In my case I follow many more sites. That is not a contradiction in critical thinking. If you, poor Elsi, think that it is then it tells me that you simply do not understand critical reasoning.

Posted by: ToivoS | Dec 28, 2017 6:15:34 PM | 191

Hi Elsi...

Ok...your post @190 at least starts off with some of your thoughts about Bannon...

It looks like you find his ideas anti-progressive...which they are...and probably many people would say racist also...

This racialist... undertone...ie the victmihood of the white working class int the US is an interesting topic...

And this is a Big subject in the minds of a good swath of Americans...

We have to recognize that this kind of appeal to nationalistic and even racial chauvinism has been a very powerful force in the past...especially in 1930s Germany...

Here the working class was literally unemployed and many were if not starving, then close to it...

Hitler turned that around and gave the people a sense of pride in their 'Germanity' as well as their supposed racial superiority...

These are dangerous things...

But Hitler did in fact turn the German economy around and was a true champion of the German worker...

That much is true...his party was the National Socialist party...and it raised corporate taxes by nearly 150 percent...limited corporate profits...and put in place incredibly progressive taxation...

This is all very true and interesting...

And it worked amazingly well...for business also...but especially for the working class...

Today we see from Bannon...who is the idea man [and ideological genius] behind Trump trying to tap into the same social discontent among the white Americans...

But they deliver the exact opposite of what Hitler did economically...

This is a huge indictment right there...on the ideological front Bannon is using the Hitler playbook...

...but economically...Dump only gives more of the same neoliberal ponzi economy for the rich...

Thanks for your comments and sorry to hear about your frustrations...

Also I would advise some of the smart-Alecks here to be tactful to a person who is clearly frustrated...and is doing quite well in what is for her a second language...

Be nice folks...

Posted by: FB | Dec 28, 2017 6:55:19 PM | 192

>>>> elsi | Dec 28, 2017 5:17:22 PM | 191

Obvioulsy not...the one you was linking in Ellingham Hall, Norfolk...an expensive one for sure for a single....

If you'd read the Wikipedia entry you'd have found out it's not owned by Julian Assange but by a former British Army officer, Vaughan Smith who inherited it from his father:

The hall was bought in 1799 by the Reverend William Johnson (d. 1807) from the trustees of Michael Hicks Beach.[1] At the time the surrounding estate was common land for the village of Ellingham, but Johnson was granted Parliamentary permission for its enclosure in 1806. It passed to his daughter Maria and her husband Henry Smith, who laid out a park in the estate and probably rebuilt the hall at around this time.[2] Colonel John Smith of the 2nd Madras Light Cavalry inherited the hall in 1846 after Maria's death. A keen hunter, Smith brought back to Ellingham Hall the remains of six of the 99 tigers he is said to have shot during his tour of duty in India.[1]

Ellingham Hall is currently owned by Vaughan Smith, former British Army officer,[3] journalist and founder of the Frontline Club in London. The estate is the site of a large organic farm managed by Smith himself along with two employees. The produce is served in the Frontline Club in its public restaurant.[4] According to its Facebook page, Ellingham Hall is available for "lakeside wedding receptions, within a traditional parkland and with the optional support of our own first-rate catering."[5] The estate also offers game shooting. The Smiths have run a shoot on the estate for at least four generations; Vaughan Smith himself hosts the events, saying that he is "partial to shooting", following in the footsteps of his equally enthusiastic father and grandfather.[4]


Julian Assange stayed there while he was out on bail.

Posted by: Ghost Ship | Dec 28, 2017 7:01:15 PM | 193

@ Toivos...

911 'truther' is a completely retarded phrase...

The thousands of highly competent engineers and pilots are supposed to be nutcases...?

The official explanation is preposterous for any technical professional who has cared to examine it...it flies in the face of physics and aircraft flight performance...

Posted by: FB | Dec 28, 2017 7:40:49 PM | 194

@ Ghostship...

Thanks for the blurb about Ellingham Hall...

Very interesting...

So Assange is invited to take refuge by a certified member of the upper crust...who is quite busy fabricating for himself a hipster 'environmentalist' image...?

Despite his ole grandad bagging more than any human's fair share of trophy Tigers...

...and his own love of 'shooting'...whatever it they shoot these days on the genteel estates of olde Albion...

Thought foxes were now protected from this civilized ritual...?

But who knows...

In any case...the two luminaries must have had some interesting pajama parties there...

So much in common those two...peas in a pd really...

Posted by: FB | Dec 28, 2017 7:48:54 PM | 195

@FB | Dec 28, 2017 6:55:19 PM | 193

So, it was not true that you had no clue about Bannon...Of course, you all here know him very well....

About White American men victimhood, just the banned article pointed out one more of the things Bannon and Trump share, which is allegations by women for abuse...And the thing is, for what I have been able to test, that a majority of all these "alt-righters" and Trump supporters seem to be people really "frustrated" with modern women, many of them fat, old, and embittered men who keep grudges against nowadays women for whatever reasons dating all their vital trajectory, and so, found in a "new ideology" blaming feminism for all their troubles what they had always dreamt. Add to this a banner against "political correctness" and there you have that they felt in heaven, since full time haters always ready to slander whoever at their shot-scope, this custom probably dating since childhood. If we were able to know, they most probably are those who always mortify others at home, at job, well, at every place....Amongst these there are real psychopaths and anti-socials....

Then there are the real nazis, amongst these those kinda illustrated who found in this "initiative" an opportunity to inaugurate the IV International Reich where they would be rehabilitiated and brought from the sewers, where they had to hide after WWII, to the positions in society an power where they should have always been....according to them....since so exceptional people...who, morevoer, are the whites amongst the whites....

Thus, you find many positive things in Nazi ideology?
Sorry to hear, but what is not true is that Hitler and his Nazi Party made anything for the working people since the first thing they did, once they grabbed power and set fire at the Bundestag, was to wipe out all liberties and human rights, except for those of their supposed "arian race", and erase all the communists and labour activists who, precisely, were the representatives of the German working people before the German corporations and businessmen, from the suface of Earth. Hitler himself was an specimen of those described above, a complexed little man full of hatred, most probably a psycopath himself.


P.S: Sorry for not answering you on your request about The Saker, but I have also explained briefly the issue at another thread to another commenter and I do not want to insist more on that issue to not tire the people here. Yes it was me who worked as moderator during a year there until some things happened, apart from the increasing censure, that made for me impossible to continue doing so. Then I decided to continue posting as commenter, still keeping good relation with the owner, although he had already failed to me in the moderation issue, to find that the censure started being applied to me in a harsh way especially by the mod with whom I have had that issue, who was besides a newcomer... I recurred to the owner and gave him a damn....Then the tone of the blog started changing, new people I deem belonging to the La Rouche organization arrived and started targetting me, the US election campaign arrived and I was insulted and slandered there at pleasure by the same group because of my stance against The Donald, especially by the commenter under nick "Bro93", even when the moderation policy forbids it. Finally, after one of my last "honest" interchanges with one of the authors there who published a post criminalizing Motorola, that same who had posted before another one criminalizing María Zakharova, I found that I had been banned for life, when the author had only warned me publicly....I discoverd it by asking another mod....

Posted by: elsi | Dec 28, 2017 8:56:50 PM | 196

@fb

is there

a reason

that you

put double

spaces in

all your

comments?

it is much

harder to read

them, and

as a consequence,

i have been skipping

them!

Posted by: james | Dec 28, 2017 9:31:53 PM | 197

Elsi...@197 said...

Thus, you find many positive things in Nazi ideology?

No I didn't say that...

Sorry to hear, but what is not true is that Hitler and his Nazi Party made anything for the working people...

I'm afraid you are mistaken my dear...

Let's start with a relatively 'neutral' source...wikipedia...

'...The Nazis came to power in the midst of Great Depression. The unemployment rate at that point in time was close to 30%...'
'...Hitler also spent large amounts of state revenues for a comprehensive social welfare system to combat the ill effects of the Great Depression, promising repeatedly throughout his regime the “creation of a socially just state...”'
'...the NSV instituted expansive programs to address the socio-economic inequalities among those deemed to be German citizens...'
'...With 17 million Germans receiving assistance under the auspices of National Socialist People’s Welfare (NSV) by 1939, the agency “projected a powerful image of caring and support.”[36]

...'The National Socialists provided a plethora of social welfare programs under Nazi’s concept of Volksgemeinschaft which promoted the collectivity of a “people’s community”...

...The NSV operated “8,000 day-nurseries” by 1939, and funded holiday homes for mothers, distributed additional food for large families, and was involved with a “wide variety of other facilities...”'

'...The Nazi social welfare provisions included old age insurance, rent supplements, unemployment and disability benefits, old-age homes, interest-free loans for married couples, along with healthcare insurance...'
'...One of the NSV branches, the Office of Institutional and Special Welfare, was responsible “for travellers’ aid at railway stations; relief for ex-convicts; ‘support’ for re-migrants from abroad; alcoholics; and the fight against illicit drugs and epidemics...”'

The NSV was the The Nationalsozialistische Volkswohlfahrt, meaning "National Socialist People's Welfare"...

One of the NSV projects was a project 'so that none shall starve or freeze...'

The Winterhilfswerk des Deutschen Volkes ["Winter Relief of the German People"]...

The interest-free loans for married couples mentioned above were to buy homes...the term of the loan was a maximum of 10 years...

Every child born erased one fourth of the loan...so four children meant you owned your house...

Hitler ordered the Ferdinand Porsche's Volkswagen [the people's car] into production...and similarly made it available to workers as with homes...

These are inconvenient historical facts in today's society of brainwashing...

The tax burden was very progressive...

'...In 1938 Germans in the lowest tax brackets were 49 percent of the population and had 14 percent of the national income, but paid only 4.7 percent of the tax burden.

Those in the highest income category, who were just one percent of the population but with 21 percent of the income, paid 45 percent of the tax burden.

See D. Schoenbaum, Hitler’s Social Revolution (1980), pp. 148, 149.

There is much more to this story Elsi...

You see...covering up historical facts is wrong...even if we don't like those facts...

I personally despise Hitler for his racism against Slavs and Jews...

And he was a fool to think he could invade Russia...which ended up crushing him like a bug...

I have no pity for this psychopath...but historical facts must not be covered up...for whatever reason...

The Socialist part of Hitler's politics was very real...that is why the people followed him so fanatically...

Look at what the Plutocrats and the puppets who serve them in Washington do today...

You want to own your own home...no problem...we have a 50 year mortgage for you...

You can look forward to actually owning your home by the time you reach 80...

Not after 10 years or four children...

You want a healthcare plan for everybody...?

Sorry...no can do...

You see it would cut out instantly the multi-trillion dollar profits of the insurance company parasites...?

We must learn from historical experience wherever we can get it...

We are in tough times today...the white working class that Bannon is conning is suffering under this economy designed to enrich a few parasites...

But how many of the deplorables do you think realize this is all a conjob...?

They are True Believers...

Even though they are believing a fairy tale...

But what do you think would happen if these white Americans knew how Hitler actually treated his own working people...?

Think about that for a minute...

Do you think they might string up fakes like Bannon from the nearest lamppost...?

This Bannon who is simply a conman of the parasite class [ex-Goldman alumnus no less]...

Posted by: FB | Dec 28, 2017 10:12:15 PM | 198

James...glad to hear you are skipping my comments...

You're not missing anything...don't worry...

Posted by: FB | Dec 28, 2017 10:13:24 PM | 199

fb - thanks for not answering my question..

Posted by: james | Dec 28, 2017 11:11:21 PM | 200

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