Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 05, 2017

Slapstick In Kiev

Today a slapstick comedy played out in Kiev. It's background though is mysterious.

In 2015 the billionaire currently ruling the Ukraine by the grace of Washington, Petro Poroshenko, invited the disgraced former president of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili, to run the city and region of Odessa. Saakashvili is charged in is home country Georgia with abuse of office and he has lost his Georgian citizenship.

The administration of Odessa is as corrupt as any other in the Ukraine but the money was flowing into the wrong pockets. Saakashvili set out to change that. He soon stepped on the sensible toes of some mighty people. After a year Poroshenko dismissed him. Saakashvili moved to the capital Kiev and started a ruckus against his former benefactor. Soon he was under investigation and accused of this or that criminal deed. When as he traveled outside of the country his Ukrainian passport was revoked and his reentry into the Ukraine was prohibited. Saakashvili entered anyway under the protection of some mysteriously paid supporters and moved back to Kiev. He recently led several protests marches against Poroshenko. Saakashvili was again indicted, this time for allegedly being paid by Moscow to arrange for a "Russian winter" coup against Poroshenko in Ukraine. Today the police went to arrest him at his apartment in Kiev.

When the police arrived Saakashvili fled onto the roof of the eight story house where he was caught (vid) by the police.

He was brought to the ground and pushed into a police van.

His supporters, who somehow had arrived in mass, blocked the road. After an hour and some clashes with the police they freed him (video) from the vehicle.

Saakashvili and his supporters went to hold a protest in front of the parliament. At the same time the Ukrainian Prosecutor General reported inside the parliament of tapped phone-calls in which some Russian middleman agrees to pay Saakashvili half a million for running more protests. Local TV transmitted a split-screen live stream of both.

One wonders what this really is about.

Who pays Saakashvili and his "protesters"?

What does Saakashvili, or the people behind him, want?

Why doesn't Poroshenko arrest Saakashvili in some unsuspicions moment?

Why not let him have an 'accident'?

Why not deport him to Georgia where he would likely go to jail?

Posted by b on December 5, 2017 at 02:07 PM | Permalink

Comments

Wasnt he wanted by Georige and thus arrested / Also corruption charges.

Guy is a clown, mentally unstable obviously. Seems like Ukraine never get any peace with people like this.

Posted by: Anon | Dec 5, 2017 2:12:58 PM | 1

Poroshenko blames Russia sigh..


Prosecutor General of Ukraine Yuriy Lutsenko said that the protests of the former Governor Odessa Mikheil Saakashvili were financed by the criminal group Yanukovych-Kurchenko, and the purpose of these actions was the seizure of state power in Ukraine and the revenge of the pro-Kremlin forces. According to Lutsenko, Saakashvili received about half a million dollars from Kurchenka.

https://frontnews.eu/news/en/19013/Saakashvili-was-put-on-the-wanted-list-in-Ukraine

Posted by: Anon | Dec 5, 2017 2:25:22 PM | 2

Noone is immune from accusations of Russian backing. At one point Rada MPs were suggesting Right Sector were a Kremlin operation.

Next they'll be alleging that James Clapper is Putin's henchman for not being Ukrainian enough on Bandera's birthday.

Posted by: Bob | Dec 5, 2017 2:29:33 PM | 3

well, like everything else - i blame the putin trolls, lol... only a matter of time and the msm will be awash with reports of putin meddling..

Posted by: james | Dec 5, 2017 2:48:44 PM | 4

cluborlov calls them kremlin trolls.. if you haven't read his article, you will enjoy it.
http://cluborlov.blogspot.ca/2017/11/why-kremlin-trolls-always-win.html

Posted by: james | Dec 5, 2017 3:01:37 PM | 5

Ukraine has become a tragical farce, is such a paradox exists.
I doubt anybody can dissect who finances Saakashvili. To me he seems to be anothe proxy, Timoshenko ?
The Ukranian people are the victims here, untold billions being stolen from the people, a lethargic civil war, that could have been avoided...
What beggars belief really is that some Ukranian politicians held the belief that they could join NATO and Sevastopol become a NATO base.. That is just alternate reality, and it must be clear to anyone that it was a no-go. There is a reason Finland is not part of NATO, even though they are fiercely independent.
The Ukrainian politicians should have taken lessons in "Real-Politik" from Willy Brandt.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Dec 5, 2017 3:05:41 PM | 6

Sorry, im against all the antirussian hysteria, but the idea that shakavili is now being paid by the russians to stir up trouble is just to delicious an irony, not to believe

Posted by: pB | Dec 5, 2017 3:23:48 PM | 7

Saakashvili was the President of Georgia who shelled and invaded South Ossetia back in 2012. This led to the "Russo-Georgian War" when Russia came to the assistance of the people of South Ossetia.

Faux Newz had an interesting moment when they interviewed a young American girl who had recently fled the war. They assumed she was onboard the Russophobia train, but she and her aunt insisted that Saakashvili was the aggressor and Russia had come to their rescue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCqIaINP-bE

So, I would doubt that Saakashvili is supported by Russia. It's not impossible since RealPolitiks can make for very strange bedfellows. Saakashvili is a fugitive in two countries right now, and could be a useful tool for further delegitimizing the Ukrainian putsch regime.

But history and contexts matters.

Posted by: Daniel | Dec 5, 2017 3:24:25 PM | 8

I think it is Yulia Tymoshenko behind Saakashvili
She seems to be the only oligarch not making out like a bandit plundering Ukraine!!! This time round!!!

I feel sorry for the Ukrainian people.
At the end of the Soviet Union they had the most potential, but for some reason they seem to have too many corrupt and ideologically ( neo Nazi) driven politicians. A recipe for conflict in a country made up of bits and pieces of other countries with Greeks, Hungarians, Jews, Russians, poles and other groups with their own cultures and identities. The Soviet Union could keep a lid on all this as it was a large multi- ethnic space, but Ukraine seeking a single identity is causing the country to split

Saakashvili is a clown and is not the saviour they need. But he could force the country to declare early elections - then Tymoshenko will reveal herself

Posted by: James | Dec 5, 2017 3:37:25 PM | 9

From what I recall about Saakashvili entering illegally Ukraine from Poland, he was helped by the supporters of Timoshenko party.

Concerning the "clownish character", he does not seem to stand out from Ukrainian norm. There are tons of reasons for popular discontent, and a considerable surplus of leaders who want to channel that discontent, and as followers of American political scene know, it helps to be "colorful" (note to HRC: some people are natural in that respect, and some, including those that you can see in your bathroom, are anything but).

Support for Batkivshchina, the political party of Timoshenko, was in high single digits, and anti-corruption credibility could lift it a bit. Timoshenko herself oscillated between "Russian stooge" and ultra-nationalist, and had some period as a tycoon with shady deals (with Gasprom). She is also a former prime minister with passable tenure, and, given her age, has pretty hair and face. Energetic Misha can complement her nicely.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 5, 2017 3:55:38 PM | 10

- Perhaps Shaakasvili was REALLY paid by the russians.

Posted by: Willy2 | Dec 5, 2017 3:57:35 PM | 11

- perhaps he was paid by Petroshenko´s opponents ??

Posted by: Willy2 | Dec 5, 2017 3:59:43 PM | 12

Saakashvilli was and is American puppet in Ukraine and at home in Georgia and hence he was not blown up like those who do not have explicitly protection from US embassy in the maddening frenzy of collapsing political and moral system in Ukraine spurring brutal murder spree among warring oligarchic mafia fighting for IMF loot.

Now even authentic Ukrainian Nazis are fed up with Poroshenko the pig, and want him dead due to him being an western agent of as they put it moral decay and culture anihilatiing globalism and that include promotion of LGBT mafia he belongs himself. A war between Nazi grass roots in the west of Ukraine as well as moderate Russian ethnic conservatives in Donbass area against US/NATO trained and equipped SBU run Kiev regime continues demonstrated by sheer terror brutality and murder as well as comical episodes like that while collapse of quite developed civil society continues into barbarism under US plans as it happened in Afghanistan, Iraq and now in Yemen and Ukraine.

Posted by: Kalen | Dec 5, 2017 4:09:45 PM | 13

"What beggars belief really is that some Ukranian politicians held the belief that they could join NATO and Sevastopol become a NATO base.. That is just alternate reality, and it must be clear to anyone that it was a no-go."
Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Dec 5, 2017 3:05:41 PM | 6
What really beggars belief is that some US politicians held the belief that Sevastopol could become a US military base.
Fixed it for you:)

Posted by: frances | Dec 5, 2017 4:20:48 PM | 14

Saakashwili is a uniqe and charismatic character. Some sort of latter day Garibaldi or Bakunin. He loves the action for the fun of it and not for any longer plans. He did indeed clean up Georgia to an almost unbelievable extent. But invading Ossetia while the Russians where there was a bridge to far. You don´t need to pay anybody to support him. Once you have seen him you understand he commands fierce loyalty. He is simply charismatic and a fighter by nature.

Posted by: Tom | Dec 5, 2017 4:21:30 PM | 15

Could Mikhail Khodorkovsky be the "Russian middleman" financing the antics of Saakashvili and his supporters?

Tymoshenko may be paying Saakashvili and his supporters but this would not work for her long-term, in that if she became President, Saakashvili would feel entitled to demand a senior position in her government and he might become a thorn in her side. He could easily switch sides if she denies him a position and work to undermine her. So no, I don't think Tymoshenko would be paying him.

More likely someone or a government outside Ukraine who could play Poroshenko, Tymoshenko or another ambitious oligarch politician off against one other, who would use Saakashvili and his fan base as tools to push Ukrainian politics this way and that, and who has the money to do so, is paying Saakashvili.

Posted by: Jen | Dec 5, 2017 5:01:01 PM | 16

I am beginning to think that the strategy is to have enough geo-political balls in the air that obscure and suck focus from the real shit going on so no global consensus can emerge to stop the insanity.

And it seems to be working for the moment as it has for the past couple of centuries of rule by the private finance elite.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 5, 2017 5:40:59 PM | 17

Saakashvili works for Cheney. Always has. He's likely there to take over if Poroshenko can't or won't continue to adequately serve western (Globalist) interests.

Posted by: dh-mtl | Dec 5, 2017 5:56:40 PM | 18

Everybody knows he's John McCains guy. Doubt the Kremlin would touch him with a barge pole. Obviously, Porky has failed in his assignment to get the war restarted and McCain is trying to stage another coup. This time with a cast of imbeciles and no presidential support.

History repeats itself first as farce.

Posted by: Anon | Dec 5, 2017 6:03:29 PM | 19

Well...that is one pretty good sketch of pure slapstick...had me in stitches for a while...

The problem with Ukraine is simple...the US interference since day one...

Think Russia under Yeltsin...but which never got fixed...

Ukraine has been part of Russia for hundreds of years...the difference between the 'Ukrainian' language and Russian is so superficial as to be something like the difference between say American and Australian English...

...kind of like 'Serbian' and 'Croatian'...

Belarus is an example of a stable post-Soviet society that knows well it doesn't belong in this Frankenstein 'Europe' of today...

The Orange Revolution was brought on by the usual suspects...ie US and its Euro proxies...and it failed miserably...

In the next election the people brought Yanukovich back...not to mention that he had won that disputed election in 2004 anyway...

Then in 2014...the crazy neocons of the Kagan clan went for the gusto...a full-blown putch...with paid snipers and blackwater mercenaries...

And so the people of Ukraine are sliding into a European version of Yemen...

Ukraine inherited a large part of the Soviet military industrial capacity after 1991...including the crucial human expertise in very high tech sectors like jet and rocket engines...airframes...and much more...

It was a no-brainer that these industries and the educational system underpinning them could be a springboard for mutually beneficial economic integration with Russia...think of Airbus and its French, German and other European partners...

Russia is today a medium-income country with a per capita GDP [PPP] on a par with EU member Greece and not far behind Italy and Spain...

For the ordinary person Russia is a paradise compared to Ukraine...with three times higher income...

We find Ukraine trailing countries like Namibia, El Salvador and Morocco...

Even the Eastern European countries like Czech, Poland and Hungary are still far from the income levels of the major Western European countries...relatively speaking they have not improved their lot from the Soviet days...

Only now all their industries are foreign-owned...bought for pennies on the dollar...they pay high prices for second-class food...

And where they had free university education that was probably second to none in quality...now they pay through the nose...

Even in the Czech Republic which is the highest income country of the former eastern bloc...many people feel that things have not improved in the last 25 years...

Have living standards in Eastern Europe decreased after Communism?

The fall has been greatest for Ukraine...and certainly this can be traced back to the constant tugging of the West...not to say outright interference on a criminal level...

Even Germany has long since realized that it needs Russia and that Russia is good for German business...so how is it that Russia's immediate neighbors...many of which were part of Russia for centuries...think that they can now burn all bridges...?

It is insane...that's the kind of change only a neocon can believe in...

Posted by: FB | Dec 5, 2017 6:05:08 PM | 20

psychohistorian @17

That's pretty much my take. We are constantly bombarded by "Breaking News" events that amount to an endless parade of squirrels for us to chase, while real stuff is going on largely under the radar.

I don't know how deep the connections of that ancient financial elite really go. I think everyone here agrees that they own/control both party flavors in the US, though some still want to believe that Trump is somehow breaking that mold (a thesis I find completely unsubstantiated except as portrayed in the Reality TV Show of political theater).

But, are Russia or China really somewhat independent competitors, or is even that level of seeming conflict really just manufactured diversion? When I see IMF backing for both of those countries, I have to wonder just how much BRIC, One Road, etc. are sincere resistance to the Globalists.

Was Hitler really just a tool for the banksters? Did the Bolsheviks really hijack the Russian Revolution at the behest of the global banksters?

Is resistance really futile, or are we led to believe the Globalists are much more powerful than they really are, and their Empire is really just a house of cards that we, the people could topple easily with mass strikes and boycotts, combined with establishing our own means of providing the basic necessities to survive the Revolution?

I see large numbers of Honduran police have publicly refused to follow regime orders against their fellow citizens. Every successful revolution has followed from significant numbers of the enforcers of the Elite refusing orders and joining with the people.

Posted by: Daniel | Dec 5, 2017 6:16:46 PM | 21

Saakashvili’s involvement in Ukraine goes deeper than his purported anti-corruption campaign. It seems he was one of the players behind the Maidan massacre, while being aligned with that scumbag zionist-Ukrainian oligarch Kolomoisky. (see below)

Another False Flag Terror ADMISSION: Snipers In the Ukraine “Protests”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-17/another-false-flag-terror-admission-snipers-ukraine-%E2%80%9Cprotests%E2%80%9D

Italy’s 11th largest newspaper – Il Giornale – reported on an admission by several of the snipers

Revazishvilli’s confessions and two other Georgians … reveal a different and disconcerting truth. … Revazishvilli and his two companions …are a former member of the security services of former Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili and two former militants of his party.”

Coincidentally (?) Georgian mercenaries were also a significant component of Kolomoisky’s private army which committed some of the worst atrocities and repeatedly undermined any attempts to establish a ceasefire. Kolomoisky was forced to back down by the U.S. from his confrontational stance with Valtzman (Poroshenko) over the division of spoils from the systematic looting of the Ukraine. His ouster as Governor of Dnipropetrovsk and subsequent marginalization from the ‘spoils of the victors’ by Poroshenko likely produced one very unhappy customer. Kolomoisky, given his history and past actions, does not seem to be the type of character who would take this lying down.(see following article) His ties to Saakashvili are quite extensive prior to the rift over Odessa (staged or backstabbing?)

NATO, MH17, Mossad and Kolomoisky: Beware the 'Chameleon'
https://www.sott.net/article/282898-NATO-MH17-Mossad-and-Kolomoisky-Beware-the-Chameleon

Some of the Georgians who serve in Kolomoisky's Army have reportedly been trained in the use of BUK missile systems previously sold by Ukraine to Georgia under the presidency of Mikheil Saakashvili. Kolomoisky has utilized ex-President Saakashvili's "consulting services" in Dnipropetrovsk in the military and political campaign against the breakaway people's republics of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Posted by: pantaraxia | Dec 5, 2017 6:54:50 PM | 22


@20 FB

“The problem with Ukraine is simple...the US interference since day one…”

Its not quite that simple. The problem with Ukraine is that it has become a mafia state run by organized crime with some three dozen oligarchs controlling approximately 85% of the economy.
President Kuchma’s regime institutionalized the organized crime element in the government in a manner similar to Yeltsin’s action in Russia. The fact that the U.S. government aligned itself with one oligarchic faction came subsequent to this.

Posted by: pantaraxia | Dec 5, 2017 7:30:55 PM | 23

I agree with some here who seem to suggest that this is no more than smoke and mirrors, since the real thing, which is no other than spreading and consolidation of fascism throughout Europe and the world, is happening behind the scenes....While you laugh at Saakashvili, nobody thinks of Parubyi....

"Nazism in Europe is precisely NATO"

http://www.voltairenet.org/article196854.html

"(...)So this is Andriy Parubiy who, as the President of the Ukrainian Parliament (a position conferred on him in April 2016 for his democratic achievements), was received on 5 June at Montecitorio by the President of the House, Laura Boldrini. “Italy - emphasized President Boldrini - has always condemned the illegal action that took place to the detriment of the Ukrainian territory”. Thus she has gobbled up the Nato version according to which it was Russia that had illegally annexed Crimea, a version that fails to take into account that the Russians of Crimea chose to break away from Ukraine and to re-enter Russia - a decision taken to pre-empt an attack, just like the decision taken by the Russians of Donbass, by Neo Nazi battalions and Kiev’s other forces.

The cordial conversation was concluded by signing a memorandum of understanding that “further strengthens parliamentary cooperation between the two assemblies, both at the political and administrative level”.

Thus it strengthens cooperation between the Italian Republic, born out of the Resistance against Nazi-fascism, and a regime that created in Ukraine a situation analogous to that which brought into being the fascism of the 1920s and Nazism in the 1930s. The Azov battalion, whose Nazi signature is represented by the emblem inspired by the SS Das Reich emblem, has been incorporated into the National Guard, transformed into a regular military unit and promoted to the rank of a regiment for special operations.

Then it was supplied with armoured transport and artillery. With other Neo-Nazi formations, transformed into regular units, it is trained by US instructors from the 173a Air Transport division, transferred from Vicenza to Ukraine, flanked by others from Nato.

The Ukraine of Kiev has thus become the “nursery” for born-again Nazism right in the heart of Europe. Neo-Nazis flow into Kiev from all over Europe, including Italy. After being trained and tested out in military action against the Russians of Ukraine in Donbass, they have been made to return to their countries. Now it is left to Nato to rejuvenate the ranks of Gladio."


Posted by: elsi | Dec 5, 2017 7:32:27 PM | 24

13,18, and 19 may be correct.. I am no expert, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili (mentions):
IIR (Intnl Law) TSNU-Kyiv (Ukraine, 1992) Poroshenko discovered. HRTs officer after Pres Zviad Gamsakhurdia (Georgia)deposed; (US State Dept(Ed Muskie Graduate Fellowship mentioned?). Columbia Law School, LLm 1994; GW Univ Law School; diploma Intl Institute of HR, Strasbourg, France. Check wikipedia for details.

http://www.blacklistednews.com/War_criminal_Mikhail_Saakashvili_officially_back_in_Ukraine/60768/0/38/38/Y/M.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/georgias-saakashvili-appointed-aide-ukraine-leader-095756606.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL0KqlQkmZs


Posted by: fudmier | Dec 5, 2017 8:17:56 PM | 25

@ Daniel who engaged me with contextual musings, pantaraxia who writes that the US is behind one of the oligarchs and elsi who agrees that there is lots of "smoke and mirrors"

First to pantaraxia I want to write that while you may see the US behind one faction of oligarchs, I would argue (without links) that the global private finance elite are behind each and every oligarch you can name...it is a religion after all, don't you know? If one is an oligarch in our small world you can take it to the bank (pun intended) that they are well connected/subserviant to the top-rung elite in some way.

To Elsi, Fascism provides a powerful front for the structure of our current form of social organization with private finance and private property protected by unfettered inheritance at the core of elite support. All/most of the corporations form the circle around the private finance core and are controlled by the top rung elite where they are not outright owned.

To Daniel I would state my ongoing postulate that turning private finance into a public utility and ending inheritance/ongoing ownership of private property would structurally change the incentives we live our lives by....for the better. I would posit that any successful evolution of our species must make that one change to our social structure and the results would "solve all our problems" by changing the fundamental way in which we relate to each other....competition/cooperation.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 5, 2017 8:18:33 PM | 26

Daniel @ 21 said: "When I see IMF backing for both of those countries, I have to wonder just how much BRIC, One Road, etc. are sincere resistance to the Globalists."

Something I've pondered for quite some time now. Makes one think all this nonsense is just smoke and mirrors to confuse the peons, as the global elites fleece the sheep.

Posted by: ben | Dec 5, 2017 8:36:19 PM | 27

17, and 24 have hit the nail on the head.. the whole idea of revealing hidden news is to implement a strategy designed to weaken the power of the masses in favor of the leaders of the masses. Divide and conquer is a method that implements that strategy. When controversial subject matter is discussed it weakens consensus. DQ applied to any controversial subject, weakens the consensus power of the mass(es) much like a second person on one side of a see-saw weakens the power of the first person to decide for him(her)self which end is up. Worse, when the two persons counter balance the see-saw, a third person can jump to the middle and easily control which of the first two are in the air and on the ground. Deep in the strategy is emotion. A controversial subject matter elicits emotions at various levels on both sides of controversy.
example: 1000 people.. 500 believe in gun control; 500 believe in open gun society.How did that happen? What news article could arouse desired or planned response? Let us say in each of the 500 groups; 30 persons (60 in all) are highly emotionally aroused by the issue; so target them, they will fight to death those who profess their opposite thought or belief and they will receive the support of the 430 on their side to start with. Now you have it.
90% of the news is about that.. D&C has been a propaganda technology since Rome days, but beginning around 1860, using propaganda to effect D&C technology was developed into a profession and the governments made that technology into a weapon of war.
I believe if the humanity of the world cannot find leadership to solve problems, then the masses are going to have to find ways to solve problems in spite of the nation states and the technology used by the nation states to prevent mass solutions that work. Every human being alive needs to understand the importance of contributing to the needs of the masses.

Posted by: fudmier | Dec 5, 2017 8:48:34 PM | 28

There's also this:
https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/3846671.html
Ukrainian politician Daniel Papiev said on a Ukrainian talk show that, although a census hasn't been held for many years, the most "optimistic" number is that the population of Ukraine has declined to 32 million. When the USSR collapsed, Ukraine's population was 52 million, and before Maidan, it was a little over 45 million. Now it's 32. A loss of nearly 20 million people (2 million due to Crimea joining Russia) is an "impressive" result by any measure (even during the 1932-33 famine years, the Ukrainian population actually rose). Ukrainian politicians regularly state that at current levels of growth, it will take until the 2030s to reach "pre-Maidan" levels. If the population keeps declining like this, even that looks optimistic. It seems that there must be a lot more Ukrainians working in the shadow economy both in the EU and in Russia than is officially known about.

Posted by: E | Dec 5, 2017 9:04:05 PM | 29

PH @26--

OT, but I'm sure you'll enjoy the read, since quite a bit deals with the enslaving private banksters. I refer to an item at The Saker: "Who are the most dangerous Russians in the world today?"

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 5, 2017 9:13:16 PM | 30

my apologies for not having time to read all of the comments, but Saakashvili is much like ahmed chalabi of olden days...who kept returning like a bad penny in various useful (to the western empire) guises. i remember only too well john mccain's "today we are all georgians".

Posted by: wendy davis | Dec 5, 2017 9:36:03 PM | 31

@ karlof1 with the Saker read for me...thanks.

I don't see it as so OT because of the contextualization it provides on the Kiev situation. What it shows quite nicely is the breadth of brainwashing that has and is occurring world wide using Russia as the petri dish of observation. The article provides good insight into the false messages/beliefs that are effective with different social groupings.


Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 5, 2017 9:53:36 PM | 32

@ 6 "What beggars belief really is that some Ukranian politicians held the belief that they could join NATO and Sevastopol become a NATO base.. That is just alternate reality, and it must be clear to anyone that it was a no-go."

It was the same thinking that prompted Saakashvili to attack S. Ossetia. Georgia joining NATO. Putin put a stop to that.

He was doing OK cleaning up Georgia but he went a step too far.

Similarly going after Poroshenko may be a very bad move.

Posted by: dh | Dec 5, 2017 9:56:07 PM | 33

@16 Jen

Slightly off-topic and trivial, but Tatyana Montyan said that Tymoshenko always used other people's money, and never shared it with anyone. I assume you've seen this clip from 2014 but if not you'll probably find it entertaining, since you have an interest in the players. Montoyan mentions Yulya around the 10:00 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAtarbgbfHc

10:07 Yulia has always been very greedy and has never worked with her own money, and the people knew that the Party of Regions guys at least pay their bills,

10:17 They will pay with some government positions, bribes, some land and so on, Yulya could only say: "Thank you very much!"

10:27 And that's why I know that all BYT party structures in Cherkassy worked for the Party of Regions. I think around the country it's the same.

10:38 She was winning in the polls in fact, but she lost, of course, because she didn't want to invest in protecting her results

10:48 So now the situation will be the same. She has nothing. She has always been working with other's resources.

The whole clip is funny. Montoyan says that Poroshenko is a thief and the son of a thief, and that she met Tymoshenko who was at the time just a small-time thief.

More seriously, I owe this interview for the understanding that Ukraine is completely run by thieves for thieves. Once one knows that, all mysteries of statecraft are solved. There truly is no statecraft. Event the wars against the Donbass are to allocate war funds to be stolen.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 5, 2017 10:01:33 PM | 34

PH @32--

Glad you liked the read. I liked the author's use of Truth Seekers versus those either in denial or not even bothering to try--aside from the manipulators and their close allies--instead of using standard political spectrum nomenclature.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 5, 2017 10:33:44 PM | 35

@ Grieved who wrote:
"
More seriously, I owe this interview for the understanding that Ukraine is completely run by thieves for thieves. Once one knows that, all mysteries of statecraft are solved. There truly is no statecraft. Event the wars against the Donbass are to allocate war funds to be stolen.
"

If you refine your optics like this you will see that the Feudal era never ended but "evolved" into this myth we are all living today.......thanks for the insightful quotes from the clip.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 5, 2017 10:49:53 PM | 36

@ Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 5, 2017 10:33:44 PM | 35

That and his entertaining description of Russian drivers.

Thanks for the excellent read!


Posted by: lurker | Dec 5, 2017 11:40:55 PM | 37

@Daniel 8, Minor correction the U.S.-backed Georgian attack on Ossetia was in 2008. That was a Condoleezza Rice-arranged action, which turned into a debacle.
Here's one decent summary from Dec 2008: (A bit biased towards standard western narrative, but better than a lot of the "Russia just attacked Georgia!" claims by CBS etc.)

"The tense but relatively stable situation blew up late in the evening of August 7, when on the order of president Mikheil Saakashvili, Georgia's army swept into South Ossetia, leveling much of Tskhinvali and surrounding villages and sending some 30,000 refugees fleeing north into Russia. Within hours, Russia's de facto czar Vladimir Putin counterattacked -- some say he'd set a trap -- and by the end of that long weekend the Georgians were in panicked retreat. The Russian army then pushed straight through South Ossetia and deep into Georgia proper, halting less than an hour's drive from Saakashvili's luxurious palace."

American military advisers had been training and supplying Georgian troops up to a few days before the invasion. There were at least 100 in the country, so you can guess that Saakashvili wouldn't have acted without the green light from the U.S. Part of the whole 'encircle Russia' strategy developed after it became clear Putin wouldn't let western interests take control of Russian natural resources. In any case, it's fairly hard to see how the Russian government would ever work with Saakashvili after that.

Everyone in the current Ukrainian government seems half-crazy at least, a bunch of oligarchs and mafia dons with all the usual squabbles over power and prestige.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Dec 6, 2017 12:04:57 AM | 38

Grieved @ 34: Thanks very much for the link to Tatyana Montyan.

Another thought just occurred to me now: what's Benny Kolomoisky up to these days in Switzerland?

Posted by: Jen | Dec 6, 2017 5:18:37 AM | 39

@22 pantaraxia

Yes:

MH17 /

Biggest Ever "Sea Breeze" Exercise In The Black Sea /

Israel Launches a Ground Invasion of Gaza


@38 nonsense factory

"in the evening of August 7" /

Beijing 2008, was a major international multi-sport event that took place in Beijing, China, from 7 to 24 August 2008.
The Games were the most watched Olympics in history, attracting 4.7 billion viewers worldwide and landed on Guinness World Records.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Summer_Olympics

Posted by: From The Hague | Dec 6, 2017 6:33:01 AM | 40

@22
And I forgot:

BRICS Summit
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/46227

From Putin's Speech:

Vladimir Putin: Ms Rousseff, colleagues, friends,

Our summits are always held in a constructive, business-oriented setting. We have a common interest in broadening multidimensional cooperation, strengthening trust and mutual understanding.

BRICS holds a unique place in the global economy. It is the largest market in the world. Moreover, our combined gross domestic product has reached 21% of the global volume and continues to grow steadily.

Our nations play an increasingly significant role in the global political arena as well. It is thanks to Russia and China’s firm stance in the UN Security Council, with support from other BRICS participants, that we were able to rally most international dialogue participants – including the European Union and the United States – and prevent a foreign invasion in Syria, achieving the elimination of Syrian chemical weapons.


Posted by: From The Hague | Dec 6, 2017 6:50:28 AM | 41

I find it amusing that members of our vaunted Fourth Estate, the U.S. U.S. MSM accept every conspiracy theory as long as the protagonist is the evil Russian govt but accept everything Kiev says as if it is the Gospel of Luke.

Can anyone tell me the logic of this type of thinking? I mean if you are an investigative reporter, wouldn't the thought occur to you along the lines of, ... 'hmm, Ukraine is a sister state of Russia, they were part of the Soviet Union 30yrs ago, they had personnel in the KGB and govt, if I believe Russia is evil, maybe Ukraine is afflicted with the same type of reliability issues'

Nah ... once a nation declares allegiance to the Almighty U.S. they are one of the good guys, incapable of lying, just like our CIA, State Dept. and Pentagon. Our Vietnam era press corps must be spinning in its collective grave.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Dec 6, 2017 9:25:11 AM | 42

Operation Mockingbird never ended. It wasn't a social experiment whereby they try it for a while and then shut it down. History shows the precursors to it. Goebbels, Freud, Bernays...

We had Reagan's termination of the "Fairness Doctrine".

We had/have Bill Clinton's Media Consolidation which violates monopoly/anti-trust laws. Now six (war profiteering) corps own every bit of the MSM.

It is not in their interest to tell the truth.

We had Obama legalize the dissemination of government propaganda. And legalize domestic surveillance via retroactive immunity for telecom.

There is no mainstream investigative journalism. That's not the way it works.

Posted by: fastfreddy | Dec 6, 2017 9:46:35 AM | 43

Not so mysterious. If you can dazzle them with good, lawful government, baffle them with bullshit. At least the junta is not shooting them down in the streets as they did in the so-called Maidan riots.

Posted by: Greg Burton | Dec 6, 2017 10:19:19 AM | 44

>Who pays Saakashvili and his "protesters"?

>What does Saakashvili, or the people behind him, want?

Saakashvili is an unemployed (great) leader wanting to become an employed one.

People behind him want pretty much the same as in Maidans no 1 (2004) and no 2 (2014) of the modern era, to crowdsolve lots of serious economic/political/fairness problems, Maidan way.

Free for all, --anybody is permitted to pay (volunteers/other oligarchs/'the West'/'the East' etc. (Who pays for any other protest anyway?)

>Why doesn't Poroshenko arrest Saakashvili in some unsuspicions moment?

He is in the middle of it. But Ukraine is not a police state, & Sako got some nats-bats shouldering, and other backing.

>Why not let him have an 'accident'?

Too famous, and backed by 'the West' for being anti-Putin.

>Why not deport him to Georgia where he would likely go to jail?

Human rights of the one backed by the West will be violated? (I recon, he is a stateless person, no longer having Georgian or Ukrainian citizenships. Georgia apparently does not really want him, as leaks claim).

Posted by: DJX | Dec 6, 2017 12:27:21 PM | 45

@45 If Saako is looking for something to cleanup he can can always try Washington. I was hoping Senator McCain might have something to say on twitter about the Poroshenko/Saakashvili feud. He is on friendly terms with both of them. Nothing yet.

Posted by: dh | Dec 6, 2017 12:49:45 PM | 46

No one mentioned how Saakashvilli invited Israeli military advisors into Georgia for years prior to the conflit of 2008

Posted by: mischi | Dec 6, 2017 1:22:14 PM | 47

@47 mischi - it goes without saying, LOL!

Posted by: james | Dec 6, 2017 1:34:56 PM | 48

@46 dh... maybe mccain can visit with the cookie girl... all hands on deck for a new, new - same as the old, old..

Posted by: james | Dec 6, 2017 1:36:02 PM | 49

This is a walk down memory lane, I was watching this pretty closely at the time (I have a grandmother whose family is from Ossetia, so it was of personal interest). It was all a pretty crude brutal power play over pipeline control, with reckless disregard for the consequences - another Outlaw US Empire stunt. The coordinated timing to the Beijing Olympics (@40 Hague) is strange - deliberate?

One factor I was unaware of at the time is the explosion on the BTC pipeline in Turkey (the BTC runs from the Caspian Sea through Azerbaijan, Georgia and Turkey to the Mediterranean) on August 5, 2008. Originally Kurdish separatists claimed credit although nobody seems to be sure. Regardless, the main U.S. interest in Eastern Europe is controlling the pipeline routes to Europe. In Central Asia, the game is controlling oilfield production, while not allowing exports through Iran or Russia.

@47 mischi the Israeli involvement likely revolved around this Israeli proposal from 2006:

[Israeli] National Infrastructures Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer told the Ambassador on June 21 that he recently returned from an oil and gas conference in Azerbaijan, where he met with government officials and discussed extending the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline to Israel. According to Ben-Eliezer, the pipeline is currently expected to run 220 km. from Azerbaijan to Georgia and Turkey. Adding Israel would extend the pipeline an additional 400 km., and Azerbaijan could subsequently use the Ashkelon-Eilat pipeline to transmit oil to the Red Sea for sale to customers in East Asia.

As part of this, the U.S. suggested joint military drills with Turkey, Israel and Georgia:

TGS will consider future regional Special Operations Forces (SOF) exercises in cooperation with Israel, Georgia, and Azerbaijan. (2007) . . .

. . . [Nasrallah] was also quoted as saying that Israel exported failed generals to train the Georgian army, referring to Brig. Gen. (res.) Gal Hirsch, who resigned his command after the Second Lebanon War


See More extensive discussion of Israel's role via Time (2008)

There are also many credible reports of Georgia using cluster munitions manufactured by Israel against Ossetia civilians and Russian forces; Human Rights Watch claimed Russia used cluster munitions as well; Georgia admitted to it but Russia denied using them. HRW often does not come across as impartial in these conflicts.

Georgia used the M85 submunition during the conflict, fired from GRADLAR rockets, which were purchased from Israel. . . it was also likely that the Georgians felt so overwhelmed by the Russian attack, they merely fired off everything they had with little thought to strike distance or consequences on the civilian population.

The overall agenda here has been the US State Department & Pentagon-coordinated plan to help Exxon and Chevron export oil from their leases in Kazakhstan (Israel being a bit player looking to secure oil supplies and transit fees):

Feb 2010: We are focused on helping the Kazakhstanis implement the Kazakhstan-Caspian Transportation System (KCTS), which envisions a virtual pipeline of tankers transporting large volumes of crude from Kazakhstan's Caspian coast to Baku, from where it will flow onward to market through Georgia, including through the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline.

Kill and slaughter for oil profits, same old game.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Dec 6, 2017 2:47:26 PM | 50

@nonsense factory#50:

The agenda of Human Rights Watch (which was founded as Helsinki Watch)frequently aligns with that of the US State Dept., ignoring or downplaying crimes of friends of the US and highlighting alleged crimes of US enemies.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Dec 6, 2017 5:03:48 PM | 51

Thanks, nonsense factory for correcting my date. Lucky, my error didn't seem to mislead anyone.

And yeah, the "coincidental" timing of big events that are underreported because of some big"news" event like the Olympics occurs far too often to be coincidental.

Posted by: Daniel | Dec 6, 2017 5:38:46 PM | 52

Apparently inexplicable events may have simple explanations available to those who know other languages than English. Rusnext.ru does not make a claim that this story relates to events in Kiev, but nevertheless gives example how excentric Georgians may pop up in Ukraine.

"In the town of Khorostkovo of Ternopil region of Ukraine, a Georgian traveling circus left behind a camel". Animal right activists concludes that once again, someone was spitting at the law in Ukraine (the camel?).

If you do not know Russian, the story has a link to the Ukrainian source on Facebook.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 7, 2017 2:06:49 PM | 53

Some comments sticking to the "slapstick" theme.

Re: Posted by: nonsense factory | Dec 6, 2017 12:04:57 AM | 38 Georgian troops armed by Israeli weapons and trained by American advisors prior to the war of 2008. Hezbollah had jolly good time in the aftermath, namely that Georgians clearly chose wrong advisors -- they would do much better with Hezbollah.

Rusnext.ru is a reliable source for slapstick concerning Ukraine. Apparently, the site is run by a bi-lingual staff, perhaps in Donbas. Mikhomaidan got a name and relevant developments are reported.

Perhaps only indirectly related to Mikhomaidan, a documented example how strange figures from Georgia can appear in Ukraine.
http://rusnext.ru/news/1512661253
In the town of Khorotkovo in Ternopil region, a Georgian traveling circus packed its stuff and departed to other venues, leaving a camel behind (the link shows the orphaned creature). Were clowns abandoned as well in the past?

Now, from Mikhomaidan, at the front of Verkhovna Rada (Parliament). A FEMEN activist disturbed for a litle while the festivities on the podium (FEMEN is a group of female anarchists that stage protests with exhibitionist elements). A portly FEMEN activist strip quite completely (except for barely visible panties and a swimming cap) and with a oar and slogans on her body (mostly on her ample stomach) was whistling and shouting, basically wishing Petroshenko and Saakashvili to vanish from the political and urban scene (the actual slogan was rather obscene). A scuffle ensued, a participant of Mikhomaidan got hit with the oar, and the women was escorted away, and once she put her dress back on, she was detained by police. Effectively, police is protecting Mikho supporters, although it could be that a non-atletic woman without company was an easy target. In any case, FEMEN is very good fighting against unrealistic expectations about female bodies.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 7, 2017 6:28:00 PM | 54

test comment

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 7, 2017 11:08:30 PM | 55

Mikheil Saakashvili, Ex-President of Georgia, Arrested in Ukraine, Again

Mikheil Saakashvili, the former president of Georgia, was arrested on Friday in Ukraine during a late-night police raid on an apartment where he had been hiding after his escape from custody following a rooftop struggle with security agents this week.

Yuriy Lutsenko, Ukraine’s prosecutor general, said in a Facebook post that Mr. Saakashvili, the standard-bearer of a vociferous campaign to remove the president of Ukraine, Petro O. Poroshenko, had been seized late Friday by police officers in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev, and placed in a pretrial detention center.

Posted by: b | Dec 9, 2017 12:49:45 PM | 56

 AP December 11 at 2:56 PM

KIEV, Ukraine — Mikheil Saakashvili, the former Georgian president turned opposition leader in Ukraine, walked free Monday after a court in the Ukrainian capital refused to sanction his arrest, vowing to push for a peaceful government change.
Saakashvili was arrested Friday on allegations that he colluded with Ukrainian businessmen tied to Russia to topple President Petro Poroshenko, accusations Saakashvili rejected.
“I consider myself a prisoner of Ukrainian oligarchs,” he said in an apparent reference to the business background of Poroshenko, who ran a chocolate business before he was elected president.

Prosecutors had asked to keep Saakashvili under house arrest, but the judge turned it down to the applause of Saakashvili’s supporters.
----------
It would be interesting to know which parts of the prosecutors' accusation was rejected by the court. By his own admission, he tries to topple the president, and he probably he colludes with some businessmen. Most likely, the ties of the latter to Russia are dubious.

The court’s verdict marked a defeat for Poroshenko, who has faced mounting criticism for his failure to uproot endemic corruption.
The victorious Saakashvili said after the verdict that he will coordinate with other political forces in Ukraine to push for a peaceful change of government.
Saakashvili, who was refusing food to protest the arrest, said that the first thing he now wants is to get back home and eat.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 12, 2017 1:10:06 PM | 57

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