Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 06, 2017

Open Thread 2017-40

Last week's posts on Moon of Alabama:

October 29: UN On Khan Sheikhoun - Victims Hospitalized BEFORE Claimed Incident Happened

A rather laughable report about an obviously faked incident.

October 31: How General Kelly's Attitudes Reflect the U.S. of A

Stories about generals, and the U.S. of A, as enlightened defenders of humanity are fairy tales.

November 1: Is The "Moderate Al-Qaeda" Set To Target Hizbullah?

We anticipate that the Saudis have devious plans for Lebanon.

November 2: Neocons Push Dubious Paper To Allege Iran - Al-Qaeda Connection

The CIA pushes an likely fake paper to reinforce animosity against Iran.

November 3: Syria Summary - ISIS Loses Control Of Its Last Urban Refuge

The Islamic State is gone. The Saudis and the U.S. lost their war on Iraq and Syria.

November 4: Lebanon - Hariri's Resignation - The Opening Shot Of The Saudi War On Hizbullah

The starting signal for the Saudi Lebanon operation.

November 5: Saudi Arabia - This 'Night Of The Long Knives' Is A Panic-Fueled Move

The clown prince robs his peers and breaks the ruling consensus in his country.

Please use the comments as open thread ...

Posted by b on November 6, 2017 at 05:47 AM | Permalink

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Regarding Lebanon, our so-called foreign policy experts in the U.S. Senate love to visit with the Lebanese Prime Minister to discuss the 'Hezbollah problem' since that position in govt is constitutionally reserved for Sunnis who are hostile to the Shiites. They are guaranteed to get good press coverage for that event and reinforce the anti-Hezbollah propaganda. Rubio is one who has done this but others have made this trek.

It's funny (in a bad way) that Rubio and other U.S. officials will visit Lebanon and speak with the Prime Minister but ignore the President. In any case, if Israel decides to attack Lebanon the sheep in the U.S. will accept this as a justifiable war rather than what it really is, an act of naked aggression.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Nov 6, 2017 8:12:07 AM | 1

Iran / Al Qaeda
I'm disappointed that I have only heard B comment on the Bin Laden document dump and the strong possibility that the Iranian offer to train and arm Al Qaeda was a planted document (okay Angry Arab suggested this). I was hoping that someone from the 'Consortium' or some former CIA analyst would also offer some commentary on this. Perhaps more will be forthcoming in the coming days.

(BTW I do find it plausible that Iran might have allowed free travel for some Al Qaeda members in exchange for releasing Iranian hostages, anyone who lives in that part of the world has to make deals every now and again)

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Nov 6, 2017 8:18:56 AM | 2

This retarded "document dump" is another reason why OBL was supposedly assassinated (over six years ago) and not captured, besides the fact that the US had nothing linking him to 9/11.
And it shouldn't be surprising that Iran, promoting its own security against the powerful US, might consider some arrangement with parties working against the US, especially since the US has supported those some parties to advance US policy. What's fair for the goose. . .

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 6, 2017 9:19:04 AM | 4

The Pentagon provocations against North Korea are paying off: Trump Expects Large-scale Military Sale to Japan

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 6, 2017 9:36:56 AM | 5

@ 3
What is a 'Cryptocurrency'?
A cryptocurrency is a digital or virtual currency that uses cryptography for security. A cryptocurrency is difficult to counterfeit because of this security feature. A defining feature of a cryptocurrency, and arguably its most endearing allure, is its organic nature; it is not issued by any central authority, rendering it theoretically immune to government interference or manipulation.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 6, 2017 9:40:12 AM | 6

@ 6
It is expected that Russia might ally with China on cryptocurrency. . .from the web:

China has combined its revolution in data collection and analysis with central planning to conquer corruption and improve the efficiency in credit allocation. Beijing’s digital economy is now at the center of the global digital economy. According to one expert, “China is the world leader in payments made by mobile devices”, (11 times the US). One in three of the world’s start-ups, valued at more than $1 billion, take place in China (FT 10/28/17, p. 7). Digital technology has been harnessed to state-owned banks in order to evaluate credit risks and sharply reduce bad debt. This will ensure that financing is creating a new dynamic flexible model combining rational planning with entrepreneurial vigor (ibid). As a result, the US/EU-controlled World Bank has lost its centrality in global financing. China is already Germany’s largest trading partner and is on its way to becoming Russia’s leading trade partner and sanctions-busting ally. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 6, 2017 10:15:16 AM | 7

Now reading JFK and the Unspeakable (James W. Douglass) and The Last Investigation (Gaeton Fonzi) to put the lie to all the current statements that Oswald cannot be connected to the CIA as its tool, with reports even in RT as though the CIA can be trusted as openly and honestly revealing ANYTHING WHATEVER. The following from Fonzi's book, a comment made in 1975, knifes through the hideous ongoing BS:

“I’m afraid we were misled . . . We spent too much time microanalyzing the details of the assassination when all the time it was obvious, it was blatantly obvious that it was a conspiracy. Don’t you think that the men who killed Kennedy had the means to do it in the most sophisticated and subtle way? They chose not to. Instead, they picked the shooting gallery that was Dealey Plaza and did it in the most barbarous and openly arrogant manner. The cover story was transparent and designed not to hold, to fall apart at the slightest scrutiny. The forces that killed Kennedy wanted the message clear: ‘We are in control and no one—not the President, nor Congress, nor any elected official—no one can do anything about it.’ It was a message to the people that their Government was powerless. And the people eventually got the message. Consider what has happened since the Kennedy assassination. People see government today as unresponsive to their needs, yet the budget and power of the military and the intelligence establishment have increased tremendously.

“The tyranny of power is here. Current events tell us that those who killed Kennedy can only perpetuate their power by promoting social upheaval both at home and abroad. And that will lead not to revolution but to repression. I suggest to you, my friend [i.e. to Fonzi], that the interests of those who killed Kennedy now transcend national boundaries and national priorities. No doubt we are dealing now with an international conspiracy. We must face that fact—and not waste any more time microanalyzing the evident. That’s exactly what they want us to do. They have kept us busy for so long. And I will bet, buddy, that is what will happen to you. They’ll keep you very very busy, and eventually, they’ll wear you down.”

Posted by: Sid2 | Nov 6, 2017 10:57:31 AM | 8

What do you make of the Saudis arresting Syrian opposition leaders?

Posted by: Katie | Nov 6, 2017 11:02:50 AM | 9


Escobar: The inside story of the Saudi night of long knives
ATIMES

Princes, ministers and a billionaire are 'imprisoned' in the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton while the Saudi Arabian Army is said to be in an uproar

[.]War breaks out within the House of Saud, as Asia Times had anticipated back in July. Rumors have been swirling for months about a coup against MBS in the making. Instead, what just happened is yet another MBS pre-emptive coup.

A top Middle East business/investment source who has been doing deals for decades with the opaque House of Saud offers much-needed perspective: “This is more serious than it appears. The arrest of the two sons of previous King Abdullah, Princes Miteb and Turki, was a fatal mistake. This now endangers the King himself. It was only the regard for the King that protected MBS. There are many left in the army against MBS and they are enraged at the arrest of their commanders.”

To say the Saudi Arabian Army is in uproar is an understatement. “He’d have to arrest the whole army before he could feel secure.”

The secrets behind the purge

There is more at link

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

There is more to this than meet the eyeballs. Trump's tweet that Aramco launch its IPO on NYSE and then there is China. MBS is moving their way ever so not so quietly.

BUT MBS' pre-emptive coup brings uncertainty, No?. Will China withdraw its proposed 5% stake in Aramco on which all things hang – the KSA lifeline?

China offers to buy 5 percent of Aramco:

Foreign Policy


[.]

The Chinese have not given Saudi Arabia much time to consider its options. Chinese state-owned oil companies PetroChina and Sinopec have already expressed interest in a direct purchase of 5 percent of Saudi Aramco. This could prove to be a boon for Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who has been eager to achieve a $2 trillion valuation of Aramco in a highly anticipated initial public offering, which is currently scheduled for 2018.

Considering the depressed state of the oil market, investors may be hesitant to meet the targets for Aramco’s valuation that the Saudi leadership has laid out. A private Chinese placement could solve this dilemma — and allow Riyadh to delay the IPO in the hopes that oil prices will improve. While this investment may not explicitly require that Saudi Arabia agree to trade in yuan, it would give China leverage toward that goal. [.]

OTOH, Xi may just love the corralling of Langley's favourite chums. Oh the webs and wars to save the dollar.

Posted by: likklemore | Nov 6, 2017 11:19:25 AM | 10

Since it's open thread - and not to start a Trump thing - I wanted to comment on something Peter AU 1 said in the previous thread, describing Trump and Flynn as enemies of the hegemon, even though not perfect:

"Trump and flynn are products of US indoctrination that has been inflicted on them since birth. Although they have rebelled, they have never been able to break their minds free of this indoctrination. Hence their antagonism towards US traditional enemies."

- http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/11/saudi-purge.html#c6a00d8341c640e53ef01b8d2bb78e6970c

I have long wanted to put this into words, and this is a great and concise description of what we're seeing. Many of us, perhaps, in the west have residual indoctrination from birth that is to some degree or another still effective in our thinking. I certainly find it in myself.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 6, 2017 11:33:52 AM | 11

likklemore @10--thanks for posting PE's brief analysis. I found it interesting that he omitted mention of Hariri and the screed targeting Iran. The last word he allowed his unnamed source is somewhat tantalizing:

"The source, though, is adamant; 'There will be regime change in the near future, and the only reason that it has not happened already is because the old King is liked among his family. It is possible that there may be a struggle emanating from the military as during the days of King Farouk, and we may have a ruler arise that is not friendly to the United States.'"

All the recent turmoil has caused Brent Crude to increase rapidly, almost crossing $64 today, but I don't read of any complaints--yet.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 6, 2017 11:49:30 AM | 12

@9 katie.. i think the commentary on that at the duran make a lot of sense..the idea of saudi arabia pivoting to russia and away from the us sounds positive.. the article implies mbs is less interested in meddling in other countries affairs - syria, lebannon, yemen? in exchange for an alternative position less under the umbrella of usa/irael dominance.. sounds attractive.. i don't know..

either mbs is going to succeed in purging any competition, or he is going to evoke some strong backlash both within saudi arabia and with those countries he is pivoting away from.. personally i don't think it is going to work out in the long run.. too much is at stake for the usa-israel..

in other related news, i am curious if the saudi's are going to let hariri return to lebanon? if anyone has a transcript of nasrallahs latest speech, i would like to read it.. thanks.. interesting twitter feed on the lebanon thread posted by someone else.. https://twitter.com/RaniaKhalek/status/927215233378201601

this catchs a good bit of nasrallahs gist from sunday... https://english.almanar.com.lb/379546

Posted by: james | Nov 6, 2017 12:11:51 PM | 13

...
In any case, if Israel decides to attack Lebanon the sheep in the U.S. will accept this as a justifiable war rather than what it really is, an act of naked aggression.
Posted by: Christian Chuba | Nov 6, 2017 8:12:07 AM | 1

It's worse than naked aggression. It's unadorned, wimpy, gutlessness.
I mean just ponder, for a moment, the wilful and smug self-deception involved in 'Israelis' day-dreaming about inflicting a mortal wound on Iran but, having no balls whatsoever, kidding themselves that flattening pissy little Lebanon is fiendishly cleverer.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 6, 2017 12:24:06 PM | 14

James @13, I found the news hopeful, to say the least. lol Thank you for the link to Rania Khalek's page. I will be sure to follow her. My focus has been on Syria and I do need to pay more attention to Lebanon as well.

Posted by: Katie | Nov 6, 2017 12:32:31 PM | 15

Grieved @11--

I've long said that together with the Propaganda System there exists an Indoctrination System within the Outlaw US Empire designed to keep lots of things hidden in plain sight because the individual's ability to critically examine is woefully blunted--particularly by sports and other forms of "entertainment," better known as distractions. I call it the castration of critical thinking abilities.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 6, 2017 12:35:06 PM | 16

@ karlof1. POST 12

Tantalizing. Regime change in KSA has long been predicted. A reminder; The House of Saud is constructed on sand. At the moment, there’s much speculation.

the duran.com has this:


“Saudi Prince Abdul Aziz bin Fahd, a business partner of former Lebanese PM Hariri, dies during arrest”
http://theduran.com/saudi-prince-abdul-aziz-dies-arrest/


The Saudi purges continue to become increasingly brutal as it appears that the Hariri resignation had everything to do with internal Saudi matters.


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I am reading 49 persons have been corralled. The Langley boys and KSA Army can’t be happy over the internecine struggles. MBS is looking east.

Patience. let the sand storm clear on the succession. This is not over.

Posted by: likklemore | Nov 6, 2017 1:32:07 PM | 17

Good point, Grieved @ 11.

However, Trump's indoctrination is based on old line Protestant-capitalism concept and belief that wealth is indicator of God's grace, and he has no other ideological etching. He is waging an economic foreign policy, solely. Though it is decorated with the symbolism of militarism. That's what has won him the support of the Generals. They and the MIC are more thrilled than a five-year old at Christmas.

Militarism, for Trump, is just a tool of economic hegemony. The veil is off. He doesn't see the world like any other strategist. In fact, Trump is not a theorist or strategist. He's all about tactics. And his tactic is there will be chaos, and only buying American weapons and investing in America will calm the beast. NATO obeyed. Japan is obeying.

Now, he has to bring capital in from China (CIC is ready with $5 Billion.) For the lesser nations, they must open their economies to be ravaged by American products or investment. Thus, Vietnam spreads its legs, India will, and Saudi Arabia is obeying like a concubine. Resistors like Myanmar or Thailand or Philippines or Malaysia will suffer Islamic terror, upheaval or missing airliners.


American Exceptionalism is a social-religious belief system, but it constantly collides with the reality of failures and massive corruption and the endemic lies and coverups. That cognitive dissonance is tearing apart the American society.

It is interesting that in the English-subtitled videos featured on Saker of Margarita Simonyan (director of RT and Sputniknews), she discusses this phenomenon in American society. She lived in the US as a teen and saw the Pledge of Allegiance as the birthright indoctrination ritual that daily establishes and programs Americans to think in Exceptionalist ways. Being 'Number One' is God's grace. Very much in line with Protestant concept of Wealth as Grace. And she is a cross-wearing Christian.

What Flynn represents is complex. True, he was anti-Iran. But he was very realistic about two important things: the need to cooperate with Russia against terrorism and for another source of excellent Intel, and to reform the US Intel Community in all its agencies.

CIA and DIA were flawed. No one knew this more than Flynn, a three-star of 33 years experience. Flynn offered formal reform plans since 2010, who confronted the WH of Obama (which had appointed him Director of the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency), but who had stonewalled his reforms to the point of never allowing him personal face-to-face with Obama during his two-year term (until they at last fired him.)

Flynn was the right man at the right time and the error Trump made was cataclysmic to Trump's Presidency.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Nov 6, 2017 1:51:17 PM | 18

ksa ritz carlton sleeping arrangement.. funny pic...

Posted by: james | Nov 6, 2017 2:16:06 PM | 19

remove the slash in the url at the end after jpg and you can see the pic..

Posted by: james | Nov 6, 2017 2:18:12 PM | 20

@18 Ryder

Agree about Flynn. I was very encouraged when Trump selected him as SoD and from the tide bits I picked up from his bio. Much more so than reading about Mattis and his Falujah cluster. At the time, Circe was ranting about his anti-Iran stance. Echoing Karlof, this probably had to do with his long tenure in the armed services and bias engrained from the Beirut barracks bombing, etc. However, his hatred for Wahhabi-founded extremism would have informed his immediate priorities. This would have meant immediate reconciliation of a shared interest with Russia to go get the rats in Syria. It is hard to imagine, then, how a campaign to start some stuff with Iran would have been born from his tenure if his priorities would have been with the jihadists, as this would have even eased tensions with the Shia alliance in general, fostering a level of cooperation that was promised with a Trump presidency. So, in the end, Circe was full of shit and they and their ilk got what they wanted with the Russia hysteria and General Flynn being dishonored, at the same time torpedoing tenable relations. Is it not funny that the investigation pertaining to Flynn has barely tallied any improprieties of significance.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 6, 2017 2:44:24 PM | 21

One very useful background article on the international consultant firm advising the House of Saud that supplements the links above:
...2016/05/saudi-arabia-aramco-salman-mckinsey-privatization

The thirty-one-year-old deputy crown prince is the Saudi king’s favorite son and has ambitious plans for the country. But the 2015 collapse in oil prices has left him short on cash. His solution: sell the family silverware.

Salman’s plan is not unusual. For decades the world’s most powerful institutions have championed privatization. Indeed, the Aramco plan seems to have come courtesy of the “Ministry of McKinsey,” as Saudi bureaucrats sarcastically labelled the world’s most prestigious consulting company.

These consultancy outfits like McKinsey (see also BearingPoint in Iraq, 2003, architect of the CPA 'economic reorganization' of Iraq, including the attempt to sell off Iraqi oil that played a leading role in sparking off the late 2003 populist anti-occupation insurgency) are key players in the imperial system, but get very little media coverage. See John Pilgers "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" for a good review, including a chapter on the 1970s deal the U.S. cut with the House of Saudi (petrodollar recycling, arms sales, construction contracts, etc.)

McKinsey has ties to the CIA, as well. So it's likely that this power grab will have no effect on the net fraction of Saudi oil money distributed back to Wall Street and London banks and firms; otherwise there'd be outrage and public condemnation and howls about "democracy and human rights in Saudi Arabia" from corporate media (such as the CIA-affiliated Washington Post did when Assad maintained economic ties with Iran, rather than coming into the Saudi-Israeli axis).
...cia-pays-mckinsey-10-million-in-fees-for-reorganisation

The real question is how much longer the Saudi people will tolerate being ruled by a corrupt autocratic monarchy that refuses to institute even basic democratic reforms (see Morocco for how this could be accomplished). The Saudi population (32 million) is ruled over by 2,000 or so royals, and their associated family members and business partners, who control the vast majority of whatever oil wealth isn't injected back into Wall Street and London finance. The Saudi public gets the dribbles off the table. A wholesale populist revolution against the House of Saud, assisted by defectors from the army, is entirely plausible.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Nov 6, 2017 3:23:20 PM | 22

Twitter report that KSA has declared war on Lebanon.

https://twitter.com/AliAlAhmed_en/status/927622471217532928

Posted by: Fecund Stench | Nov 6, 2017 3:32:10 PM | 23

In the UK there have been calls from the media, impending legal actions and huge pressure from MPs for the UK government to release 50 “secret” reports they allegedly have about the impact of Brexit on different industries.

The furore appears to have begun with this from Molly Scott Cato at politics.co.uk:

“Earlier this year, a leaked Department of Health study revealed that a hard Brexit would leave the NHS short of 40,000 nurses by 2026. This led me to write to Brexit secretary, David Davis, demanding the government urgently disclose any other findings into the potential impacts of the hard Brexit path it is pursuing.
The response from the Department for Exiting the EU (DExEU) revealed that they have conducted analysis of over 50 sectors of the economy, but no indication was given as to the findings from these studies. So potentially more than 50 secret papers fill the shelves at DExEU offices. ”

To “conduct analysis” is not the same as producing a complete study, as every student will know, but by admitting the studies did not exist the government would have appeared to be even more inept than they currently appear to be. So they tried to bluff it out.

By sheer coincidence I recently heard from a friend who has a friend in DExEU who confirmed that the 50 studies did not exist, that the preliminary work that has been done points to a dismal scenario for British businesses, and that the place is filled with recent graduates.

Posted by: Lochearn | Nov 6, 2017 3:41:47 PM | 24

Interesting notion, Sid2 @12

If that is the case, can we not apply that concept to 9/11, and SO many other ops and false flags? In other words they are SO blatant, and SO sloppy as to keep the observant ones preoccupied in debating the minutiae - bogged down in the weeds - that it takes our attention away from where it can make a difference: ourselves, family, friends and community.

Certainly I will be the first to admit that following & keeping track of all the machinations of the Zionist/NWO is a full-time job (no offence to b or others here - I do appreciate everyone's efforts). Perhaps I need to step back more often, and dedicate some time to local efforts...

Posted by: xLemming | Nov 6, 2017 3:45:16 PM | 25

Because I only read headlines, and the fact that headlines often lie, I believed that the CIA was pushing the Washington Post (a "dubious paper"). See? It pays to read the first paragraph too.

Posted by: Flyby_Read | Nov 6, 2017 3:51:17 PM | 26

@23
The twitter post links back to this news article by a london based Arab news site.

Full google translation of the article..
Saudi Arabia's minister of state for Arab affairs, Thamer al-Sbahan, said his country would treat the Lebanese government as a declaration of war because of Hezbollah guerrillas, calling on the Lebanese to choose between peace and inclusion under militias.
"The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, King Salman bin Abdul Aziz, informed the Lebanese Prime Minister, Saad Al-Hariri, of the details of the aggression of the Hezbollah militia against Saudi Arabia," Thamer al-Sbahan told Al Arabiya television on Monday, describing the talk of forcing Hariri to resign. "To distract the Lebanese.
"The militias take part in every terrorist act against Saudi Arabia, smuggle drugs and train Saudi youths on terror," he said. "The government of Lebanon must be aware of the threat of militias against Saudi Arabia."
He continued by saying:
He pointed out that "Lebanon is kidnapped by the militias of Hezbollah and the successor of Iran, noting that" the militias affect all the decisions taken by the Government of Lebanon.
"He said that" the Lebanese are able to stop the excesses of militias, and they determine what will happen to Saudi Arabia, The choice between peace or inclusion under Hezbollah "
He stressed that Saudi Arabia" will use all political and other means to confront Hezbollah, and will treat the government of Lebanon as a government declaration of war because of the militias. "

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 6, 2017 4:07:24 PM | 27

@23 / 27 peter au..

it wouldn't surprise me if ksa did some bone headed thing again, as they did with qatar and as the war in yemen attests to as well.. declaring war on lebanon sounds at the level that this clown prince operates on..

ksa may as well be the voice of israel at this point.. israel will dump them when they have served their purpose i guess..

Posted by: james | Nov 6, 2017 4:15:15 PM | 29

@28 Empty rethoric or escalation, where is this going?

Posted by: Lozion | Nov 6, 2017 4:19:04 PM | 30

@30 b knows all, as far as I'm concerned.

Posted by: Fecund Stench | Nov 6, 2017 4:25:20 PM | 31

@30 That being said, this was provided in previous comments as a must read.

https://journal-neo.org/2017/11/04/moscow-outmaneuvers-washington-s-kurdistan-project/

Posted by: Fecund Stench | Nov 6, 2017 4:36:44 PM | 32

james, seems as though anything could happen. The young clown prince does not have the experience of Erdogan, and it remains to be seen if he has the cunning and survival instinct of Erdogan.
Also to take into account is the partnership between Saud and Wahhab. From what I have read of the original partnership, Wahhab would control the population and garrantee their loyalty to Saud and in return the Saudi's would protect the Wahhabi's. So I would guess the Wahhabi clerics would also come into play here.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 6, 2017 4:40:00 PM | 33

I doubt KSA will open up a new war front this time being Lebanon. Where will they get the grunts from? Al Qaida terrorists are trying to hold on to Idlib. Daesh in Syria and Iraq is being slaughtered and those who switched on to SDF uniforms will hold on to eastern Syria. Those who fled will return to their countries of origin. And the hired mercenaries are already deployed in Yemen where they can hardly stand their ground against a lightly armed native population. The plot with Hariri who is used as a KSA rag doll is a disgrace for everyone to see. The events in KSA are almost joyful to watch. I wouldn't be surprised if MbS on a private jet in a not so distant future would all of the sudden fall out of the sky or die from some unexplained illness. He has only failures to show for and in his own circles breeding enemies like cockroaches. He never got elected and certainly has no popular backing. The only thing he has is more money then he can even spend but even that is no longer true.

Posted by: xor | Nov 6, 2017 4:44:17 PM | 34

horsewhiperar:
The Israeli plan was to take out Lebanon> then Syria> then attack Iran in more than a pinprick - enough to get Iran to retaliate, then have the US join them. Notice another Hariri was assassinated - 2005 - which was used to get Syria out of Lebanon (we would have good guesses at to who really assassinated him as they wanted only to fight Lebanon at that time). However Hezbollah fought the IDF to a draw and then won by getting Israel out of Lebanon. Hillary was so successful in destroying Libya so then, on to Syria. However, the Russians realized they shouldn't have passively let Libya be destroyed and stepped in militarily to save Syria. Back to Lebanon for Israel. They really don't want people who have accurate missiles attacking them. They love the ineffectual missiles from Gaza if they aren't themselves sending them as it allows them to use the victim card. Excusing them the murder of thousands Palestinian men, women. and children in Gaza.

Posted by: gepay | Nov 6, 2017 5:00:40 PM | 35

Sorry for the repost but the other thread as slowed so:

If war is in the making, Hariri would not fly back to Beirut, right? So:

-Kushner flies in to Riyadh to greenlight MSB’s power grab.
-MSB obliges Hariri to step down offering protection in the Kingdom in exchange as he is Saudi citizen as well.
-KSA forces Lebanon to sidestep Hezb, which wont happen.
-KSA uses various pretext (Yemen/Hezb/Iran nexus as the Great Shaytan) & Aoun’s refusal to recognize Hariri’s resignation as an affront and uses it to further escalate..

Thoughts?

Posted by: Lozion | Nov 6, 2017 5:12:13 PM | 36

I rather liked the AngryArab's take:

What is unique about the rule of Muhammad bin Salman
This is the first Saudi ruler who is ruling without alliances within the royal family. Remember that even the powerful Faisal relied on Abdullah bin `Abdul-`Aziz to counter the influence of the Sudayris. Muhammad bin Salman does not even rely on his own brother in his one-man-despotic show.
Is that going to succeed? Arresting large numbers of the royal family doesn't look good. perhaps he will succeed the coup, or perhaps not.

Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 6, 2017 5:13:50 PM | 37

Bahrain orders citizen to leave Lebanon.. (unconfirmed)

Posted by: Lozion | Nov 6, 2017 5:29:46 PM | 38

@38,
Bahrain does what the KSA and USA tell them, promptly. It's not a real nation. It's a barnacle on SA's ass.

Posted by: Red Ryder | Nov 6, 2017 5:47:46 PM | 39

@22, First link is excellent, nonsense factory. Thanks. I was in consulting full time for over 10 years in Toronto and I can tell you that some (most?) regulatory folks worship McKinsey.

Posted by: spudski | Nov 6, 2017 6:10:48 PM | 40

Re: JFK and the Unspeakable
I do not argue about CIA involvement in killing of JFK, that is not my subject.
The main point of this book is that JFK was going to stop the USA military in Vietnam. On this point I do not agree with this book, not at all. Serious recommendation:
read Vain Hopes, False Dream by Noam Chomsky. He goes through all the evidence here:
https://chomsky.info/199209__/

Now, getting back to the question of CIA killing people, have you read "Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, Mary Pinchot Meyer, and Their Vision for World Peace" by Peter Janney?
Mary Pinchot Meyer was lover of JFK, they took LSD together, and she tried to turn JFK away from war. Mary's ex husband Cord Meyer was CIA. After JFK's death, Mary spoke about CIA and JFK. Janney says that CIA (under direction of James Angleton) killed Mary.
Very well written, author was childhood best friend of Mary's son, and his father was CIA with Meyer and Angleton.

Posted by: mauisurfer | Nov 6, 2017 6:13:44 PM | 41

It's on and declared in the most vicious, dishonest way: Thamer al-Sabhan blames Lebanon (really, all of it) for having declared war on Saudi Arabia.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-lebanon-politics/saudi-arabia-says-lebanon-declares-war-against-it-idUSKBN1D61SZ

George Orwell would be proud.

Posted by: fx | Nov 6, 2017 6:15:24 PM | 42

@36 Lozion,
I'd add that this looks like a replay of the 2008 conflict in Lebanon, also driven by outside interests (Saudi, US, Israel) trying to foment a civil war in Lebanon. In that case, the actions of the Lebanese military commander at the time, Michel Suleiman, were instrumental in preventing those interests from achieving their objective. He kept the army from intervening on either side, instead using a police-keeping separation strategy in which the army was deployed on neutral territory between the opposing sides; this brought the conflict to an end, much to the dismay of Israel and Saudi Arabia.

On background: . . ./wiki/2008_conflict_in_Lebanon

Seymour Hersh believed that the U.S was working to weaken and disarm Hezbollah with the help of Saudi Arabia, who was attempting to strengthen Sunni groups as a counterweight to the Shi'a Hezbollah. Borzou Daragahi, the L.A. Times bureau chief in Beirut, wrote that the Saudis had disowned the attempt by Sunnis in Lebanon to found a militia in the guise of a security force named Secure Plus [meaning the Saudis were most likely behind it]. As'ad AbuKhalil, a secular leftist and a professor of political science at the California State University, Stansilaus, stated that he believed the US was attempting to fund and arm Sunni militias to instigate a Sunni-Shiite conflict.Pepe Escobar wrote in the Asia Times that the US gave $60 million to the Lebanese Internal Security Forces at the Interior Ministry, and accused the US of fomenting sectarianism in Lebanon.

This time around, it looks like the Lebanese government knows the game plan and will not be drawn into any kind of sectarian conflict. Ultimately, the Saudi-Israeli-US strategy is about blocking economic integration across the non-GCC/Israel region (Lebanon-Syria-Iraq-Iran), but given the obvious benefits of such economic integration (access to the Mediterranean and Europe for trade)...

Posted by: nonsense factory | Nov 6, 2017 6:18:39 PM | 43


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ANNA News reporters join Tiger Forces and other SAA units on the front lines as they combat ISIS in and around Deir ez-Zor.


Languages: Arabic and Russian (subtitled in English)

Runtime: 75min

Date: October 15, 2017

---

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Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Nov 6, 2017 6:18:50 PM | 44

Are the Saudis moves panic fueled or is it just revenge? I read it online so it must be true...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/7b1kzk/the_las_vegas_shooting_and_the_mass_arrests_in/

Posted by: Joe | Nov 6, 2017 6:22:58 PM | 45

Lozion | Nov 6, 2017 5:12:13 PM | 36 "Thoughts"
The arrest, or arrest warrants for the two Saudi appointed leaders of the HNC must also fit into the picture.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 6, 2017 6:32:06 PM | 46

satanick globes
barbera lerner spector style saudi citizenship for a jap sex robot recently for the donmeh recently.
these numbers are not from apes like the 9 and 11
this is kaballa caballa rocknrolla tel aviv london newyork bad production.

33
66
666
a little 2 masonic don't ya think
this son of salman soloman rabbi inc.

rupurt murdoch will get his shares back for free from bin talal estate once fredo corleone look a like head has hit the bin ladin tarmac.
all those free shares he can use to buy back his stake in sky uk because the rabbi has not got enough media control as it is balfour land london

this is just another money asset grab like ukrainia and libya.
the monkey kings think they are in control in charge but soon the treasure will be gone just gone.
the sas,mi6,cia and mossad c130 planes will extract this stuff quicker than any heist movie.

Saudi Arabia Is About To Confiscate $33 Billion From Four Of Its Richest People


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-06/saudi-arabia-about-confiscate-33-billion-four-its-richest-people

Posted by: charles drake | Nov 6, 2017 6:32:30 PM | 47

@33 peter au.. clown prince doesn't have the smarts that erdogan has.. that is how i see it.. i can't believe erdogan is still in power, but he has been cunning enough to do it.. i doubt it will be the same for mbs..

@ lozion... the reports of saudi war on lebanon has not been publicly stated, although i am sure as spokes country for israel, they would like to take out hezbollah.. we will have to wait and see if hariri gets to go back to lebanon.. if not, the move from ksa will have completely backfired, which i expect will happen..

Posted by: james | Nov 6, 2017 6:34:49 PM | 48

in case anyone missed it, the link that petri offered on the saudi thread really speaks to the issue on hariri as i see it..

A once-mighty Saudi construction firm linked to Lebanon's prime minister Saad Hariri is finished, having left thousands of workers unpaid, sources said on Friday.

Posted by: james | Nov 6, 2017 6:39:26 PM | 49

And Trump is now throwing his weight behind the new SA leadership as reported at ZH

Trump Defends Saudi Actions: "Some Have Been Milking Their Country For Years"

Nothing about the war with Lebanon.......but please note that Trump is happily getting revenge because of his dust up with SA Prince Alwaleed Talal during US (s)election.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2017 7:28:36 PM | 50

I am sharing one of the comments from the above provided link about SA and Lebanon "war"

from khnum

If you cant beat Yemeni Houti tribesmen then Hezbullah is a very stupid proposition

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2017 7:36:33 PM | 51

The war declaration story started with a tweet on Jerusalem Post apparently. It may have been blown out of proportion.

"...Saudi Gulf affairs minister Thamer al-Sabhan told Al-Arabiya TV that Saad al-Hariri, who announced his resignation as Lebanon's prime minister on Saturday, had been told that acts of "aggression" by Hezbollah "were considered acts of a declaration of war against Saudi Arabia by Lebanon and by the Lebanese Party of the Devil."


https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/no-lebanon-and-saudi-arabia-have-not-officially-declar-1820193524

Posted by: dh | Nov 6, 2017 7:48:06 PM | 52

phycho @ 50: Thanks for the link. Trump would be an expert on "milking their country"..

Posted by: ben | Nov 6, 2017 8:27:53 PM | 53

And here in Amerika we create our own refugees

Homeless explosion on West Coast pushing cities to brink

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2017 8:37:53 PM | 54

Reply to Grieved 11
"MBS' pre-emptive coup brings uncertainty, No?. Will China withdraw its proposed 5% stake in Aramco on which all things hang – the KSA lifeline? "
SA doesn't need the Chinese investment now, the money they have seized from the captured Princes is well in excess of what China was offering.
And the frosting on the cake is how the seized funds will be distributed according to:
"Notorious Saudi whist blower Mujtahidd has warned: “Bin Salman expects to raise 2-3 trillion riyals [$0.5-$0.8 trillion] from his current arrest campaigns, he will ‘donate’ half a trillion [$0.1 trillion] to the budget and pocket the rest for himself.”
I give the Prince six months, tops.

Posted by: frances | Nov 6, 2017 8:57:10 PM | 55

I have been reading around the blogs and doing a bit of research to try and form an opinion of what is happening in Saudi Arabia. Seems important as Saudi Arabia is a main pillar of the hegemon. But so many different opinions, bits and pieces of information that don't give a full picture. This is like a mystery novel where you have to read through to the end to find out who is doing what to whom.
Now being the worlds largest importer of oil, and having offered to purchase the full five percent of Aramco China is a major play.
Who was wanting to turn to Russia/China - the purged or the purger?
Is the young prince playing Trump, or is Trump playing the prince?
If the clown price is turning to Russia/China then he is playing Trump. If not, then Trump is playing him.
What a mess.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 6, 2017 9:00:06 PM | 56

reply to:
Israel...kidding themselves that flattening pissy little Lebanon is fiendishly cleverer.
Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 6, 2017 12:24:06 PM | 14
Well, it kind of is clever if Israel can get SA to join them in significantly reducing Hesbollah's strength or destroying them entirely it will make their (SA/US/Israel planned attack on Iran all the easier.

Posted by: frances | Nov 6, 2017 9:00:20 PM | 57

reply to:
I am reading 49 persons have been corralled. The Langley boys and KSA Army can’t be happy over the internecine struggles. MBS is looking east.
Posted by: likklemore | Nov 6, 2017 1:32:07 PM | 17

Alternatively yes, the Langley boys are unhappy but what if MBS is now looking to the Pentagon/Trump group not eastward. Plus I read in several places that a payment of 1 billion US was made to Kushner as his finder's fee for the 100 billion SA arms deal just in time to meet his loan payment on 666 5th Ave.

Posted by: frances | Nov 6, 2017 9:08:49 PM | 58

@54 psycho

You and I know so much about this, living in Portland. I am very lucky to work for the public in our city, but one of the foul duties is cleaning up derelict properties overrun with campers. The last one we worked on, I stopped counting at 50 used needles i carefully disposed of. You come to sigh in disappointment when you come across the loose orange caps strewn about, knowing that a rogue needle lies nearby. And the smell...my god..."how do they live in this?" You always ask yourself. I have stepped in human shit and put tools down in it as well. Your skin crawls all during the task at hand. After reading about San Diego, you know that Hep A is coming to Stumptown. Give it time.

What's worse is that residential neighborhoods aren't immune. I live across the river and we happen to live next to an older lady with the most fucking backwards enabled children/adult-babies who have seemingly taken over the home title. Her 40-something year-old son parked a winnebago circa 1995 that reeks from over the hedge as it sits increasingly surrounded by bins, furniture, and black hefty bags of god knows what. And Portland just announced a moratorium on enforcing codes pertaining to Accessory dwelling units (ADUs), which means that I'm sure now that I am not the only one thrust into encountering the economic and moral decay of a crumbling empire. The throwaways are adding up and even my neighbor asked for forgiveness after thanking the Lord that the opium epidemic is shaving off a good number of "the untouchables" due to the fentanyl spiking.

At this point, it becomes: "don't take me down with you!" It's sad, but with the culture of death we export, why is it so shocking that the smell of death surrounds us now here at home.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 6, 2017 9:11:23 PM | 59

@ NemesisCalling about my link to Amerikan refugees

My experience with having to clean up human feces was as a do it or lose your job strike breaking I did back in the 90's. The Union boys had left their excrement in a number of places and then set them up to fail.

I feel your pain but would take having to deal with the bottom .0001% and the carry over of their hurt to society than the top .0001% AND THE CARRY OVER OF THEIR HURT to society any day....the stench you smell at the bottom is many multiples less than the effective stench of society's elite.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2017 10:11:43 PM | 60

I have another link about the "WAR" between SA and Lebanon being rumored from ZH

On The Verge Of Catastrophe: Saudi Arabia Says Lebanon Declared War

The quote I like is:
"
Thankfully, Nassim Nicholas Taleb sums it up nicely with a basic geography lesson: "Either the media is stupid, or Saudi rulers are stupid, or both. Lebanon did not formally declare war and there is no common border."
"

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2017 10:13:38 PM | 61

Honestly, Langley is not the least bit concerned about bin Salman's coup. Except for all the cube guys over by the copier that bet on Nayef in the office pool. Rookies! I keep my eye on where the chief puts his money. It's almost like he creates his own reality.

In other news, there was word going around the Twitterverse about an odd (but not really surprising) cable purportedly from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs to all its embassies around the world regarding Lebanon and Hariri.

Barak Ravid summarizes the cable in this series of tweets.

He is one of the co-authors of a Channel 10 article available online (in Hebrew) regarding the cable. This is the CIA's, er... Google's translation of the relevant parts of the article [unedited] so expect some odd punctuation and garbled wording:

The Iranian Threat: Israel aligns itself with Saudi Arabia against the involvement of Tehran and Hezbollah in Lebanon

...Following the resignation of Lebanese Prime Minister Sa'd Al-Hariri, Israel is embarking on an exceptional international struggle against Hezbollah's participation in the internal politics of the country .

On Sunday, a day after Al-Hariri's resignation, the Foreign Ministry sent a telegram to classified embassies to all the Israeli embassies in the world, instructing them to appeal to the highest echelons and to convey the message that the countries of the world must oppose any combination of Hezbollah in a future government in Lebanon. This is a relatively unusual directive because it concerns internal political matters in another country.

"To request the Director-General, you are requested to urgently contact the Foreign Ministry and other relevant government officials and emphasize that the resignation of Al-Hariri and his comments on the reasons that led him to resign illustrate once more the destructive nature of Iran and Hezbollah and their danger to the stability of Lebanon and the countries of the region,

"Al-Hariri's resignation proves that the international argument that Hezbollah's inclusion in the government is a recipe for stability is basically wrong. This artificial unity creates paralysis and the inability of local sovereign powers to make decisions that serve their national interest. It effectively turns them into hostages under physical threat and are forced to promote the interests of a foreign power - Iran - even if this may endanger the security of their country. "

In a telegram, Israeli ambassadors were also asked to convey an unusual message of support for Saudi Arabia in light of the war in which it is involved in Yemen against the Iranian-backed rebels. "The events in Lebanon and the launching of a ballistic missile by the signatories to the Riyadh International Airport require increased pressure on Iran and Hezbollah on a range of issues from the production of ballistic missiles to regional subversion," the cable said...

No clue about the Channel 10 site. It appears to be the online companion to an Israeli TV channel. The author notes the "...relatively unusual directive because it concerns internal political matters in another country..." That's a rather hilarious understatement. If it's real, the cable is evidence that Israel is instructing it's embassies everywhere to encourage their host countries to subvert the Lebanese constitution and the Lebanese people's decisions on how they want their highest political offices filled. While Israel describes the Lebanese government as supposedly 'forced to promote the interests of Iran', it neglects to mention the overt Saudi influence via Hariri.

No big scandal here or anything. I'm just taken aback by the audacity of Israel in lobbying its psychotic anti-Iranian agenda to other governments. The next cable will probably urge its foreign embassies to convince host countries of the urgency for Lebanon to cede its southern regions and offshore oil/gas rights to Israel. You know... for peace and stability and stuff.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Nov 6, 2017 10:26:25 PM | 62

@59 NemesisCalling

The throwaways are adding up and even my neighbor asked for forgiveness after thanking the Lord that the opium epidemic is shaving off a good number of "the untouchables" due to the fentanyl spiking.

I live up the coast from you in Vancouver (British Columbia) and fentanyl is dropping dope fiends at a steady clip in this region (almost 800 deaths so far in 2017). When fentanyl showed up about 2 years or so ago it was all over the media and government "pledged" to "do something" about it. Cut to 2017 people dying (mostly men, almost always alone) is just part of the background chaos. The only "solution" that's been seriously proposed is charging fentanyl dealers with murder...because the law and order approach worked so well during the earlier phase of the war on drugs. (The truth is nobody really cares. Addicts are considered unpeople by many and they are easily dehumanized).

The homeless population is growing ever faster too as housing becomes even more affordable. ($1.3 million dollars might still buy you a small bungalow on a small lot on the east side, average rent for a 1-bedroom apartment is $2100/month and both are climbing steadily). News that a record number of people are living in their vehicles barely gets a reaction and the City government has long ago stopped spouting its feelgood liberal rhetoric about "ending homelessness."

Neoliberalism is running rampant across the west and the concept of social responsibility is becoming a thing of the past as our societies devolve into a war of all against all. Your example of the guy thanking the Lord for wishing his fellow citizens dead is best taken as a warning. What kind of "Christian" wishes death on the poorest and most destitute citizens in his community (because they inconvenience him and remind him of his own vulnerability) and thinks asking God for forgiveness is all it takes to absolve him of his guilt? Only in a society where people are alienated and isolated from one another and forced to compete against every other citizen (or is it "consumer" now) is such casual dehumanization possible.

What would Jesus say/do/think? is kind of a lame joke that people laugh at but it might not be such a bad idea for people (especially Christians) to pause and look around and take stock of their own attitudes and ask what would Jesus say, do or think if He shadowed them for a little while and got a feel for the kind of society we are building and the attitude of the people that live in it?

Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Nov 6, 2017 10:41:01 PM | 63

@59 psycho

Mostly agree with you on the elite and their disgusting nature. But I will tell you this: besides business owners, the lower-classes are the ones subjected to the lashing out from these throwaways. And while there may be a kernel of truth to being a victim of circumstance, I hinge my worldview on freedom, choice, and pride, with laziness and excuses to be fought off like the plague of postmodernism that they are.

I love remembering to check out Linh Dinh's blog "Postcards from the end of America." I shouldn't forget that some people are just too worn out to fight for their upright soul. Sad but I think a bleeding heart is a touch more evil.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 6, 2017 10:54:08 PM | 64

NemesisCalling | Nov 6, 2017 10:54:08 PM | 64 "And while there may be a kernel of truth to being a victim of circumstance, I hinge my worldview on freedom, choice, and pride, with laziness and excuses to be fought off like the plague of postmodernism that they are."

As technology increases, labouring jobs, production line repartition jobs will disappear, more and more people will become unemployable.

An interesting thing I noticed in the small part of China I visited. Rather than trucks to clean footpaths and roads, older people, well past hard physical work, most likely illiterate, employed to keep the streets clean and paint the bases of trees ect. They did not work hard, just poked along, but kept the streets spotless. Ensuring gainfull work for all.

A society is made up of very different people with a vast range of capabilities, some very capable, some not so capable. If all were the same, we would be clones.

Your attitude is typical American.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 6, 2017 11:13:44 PM | 65

TS @ 63 said: "Neoliberalism is running rampant across the west and the concept of social responsibility is becoming a thing of the past as our societies devolve into a war of all against all."

True that, and getting worse daily, but, with an indifferent populace much deserved..

Posted by: ben | Nov 6, 2017 11:14:57 PM | 66

@65 Peter

I don't understand what you are trying to say or how it relates to my comment. And I won't dignify your typical anti-american claptrap. Good day to you, sir.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 6, 2017 11:29:29 PM | 67

PavewayIV | Nov 6, 2017 10:26:25 PM | 62

It was my impression also that Saudi were trying to build some sort of internation support for a seige, perhaps direct attack on hezbolla. On this subject, current US, Saudi, Israel would all be in agreement. But I feel other crap is happening in amongst this, perhaps Trump trying to send the Saudi's to their destruction. I guess we have have to wait until the music stops and see who's left high and dry without a chair.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 6, 2017 11:31:13 PM | 68

Speaking of Pepe Escobar, he provided this update 30 minutes ago on Facebook:

"It's in Arabic only - and al-Akhbar has definitely confirmed it: Hariri the Saudi asset is in HOUSE ARREST in Riyadh. And he was forced to resign by his Saudi masters. EVERYTHING that Nasrallah said in his speech is true."

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 6, 2017 11:34:12 PM | 69

@ Peter AU1 with response to NC

The boot strap mentality expressed by NC is not just held by many Americans but by many Westerners. It goes along with thinking you and your cohorts are better than those folks over there.....always the win/lose equation.

Why is it that folks that complain about the less fortunate of our sick world never really confront the real reason why this is so? Do they really believe the Big Lie that those born into property and wealth deserve their place in society? Do they not understand that the previous question is just one step short of a slippery slope to themselves?

Until and unless we can build a common understanding of the cancer that global private finance cause to our society and replace it with a public utility version we will continue to live in this neo-feudalistic world of pecking order demoslavery.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2017 11:40:28 PM | 70

NemesisCalling | Nov 6, 2017 11:29:29 PM | 67

Look up Grieved's comment erlier in the thread. Indocrination is a hard thing to throw off.
On average in society, there may be up to 5% of people who are no hopers. Will not work if work is availkable, prefer drugs and crime ect.
When their is a major increase in drugs and crime, there is a major problem in that society, and rathger than the increase being the problem, they are the victim/symptom of the problem.
In the US west, this problem will only increase as more people become unemployable due to tech.
Good day to sir.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 6, 2017 11:48:43 PM | 71

@63 temporarily sane

Excellent comment. Thank you. Indeed, I did ask, "Why do I not have a strong reaction to what was just said?" The only thing I could think of was that the proximity and repetition has programmed me to forget or to accept "the facts," like a good soldier. However, there are many things to defend against, not the least of which is guilt. We can't do it all for everyone. But there is a little Diogenes in all of us who want to raise the question of malevolent empire to our neighbor. It's a good start.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 6, 2017 11:54:50 PM | 72

i dunno.. lots of people have good insights.. sharing them with others is beneficial i think.. i read the link @54 from psychohistorian.. it tells of a situation that is bad and i agree with peter au - it will get worse as jobs continue to be removed thanks technology and etc..

nemesiscalling is a realist and he doesn't seem mean or unkind.. maybe i am a dreamer, lol.. ultimately the question that psycho keeps on raising about finances is pivotal to all this.. when the cost of housing becomes unattainable to a greater number of people, or the opportunities for good paying jobs continues to decreases, you are left with what we are seeing now - with the youngest people, the highest numbers on the link from @54 that psycho shared..

how is any of it going to change? we need a major overhaul.. neoliberalism ain't working..

i liked what temporarily sane said.. that all rang true and made sense to me... everyone has something relevant to say really.. it's an interesting conversation with no immediate answer in sight.. being sensitive to (the plight and etc. of) others is what makes up human and i think it makes life more meaningful too.

Posted by: james | Nov 7, 2017 12:03:17 AM | 73

@70 psycho

I wan't alluding entirely to the bootstrap, psycho. There are ongoing casualties RIGHT NOW and it is MESSY out there. Many are already lost. There is hope for them only if they throw off the mantle of excuses and pick up the sword. That is choice and freedom. We saw it in Syria and it is the stuff of heroes. I am not talking about rising to a higher socioeconomic rung. That is selling-out. I am just saying that being petit bourgeoisie we are in close and often victimized proximity to the throwaways.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 7, 2017 12:06:14 AM | 74

NemesisCalling | Nov 6, 2017 11:54:50 PM | 72
Just raed temporaly sane's post and he set out my thoughts on your earlier post in a better (more diplomatic) way.
" the proximity and repetition has programmed me to forget or to accept "the facts," like a good soldier"... This is the hardest thing to break through, and perhaps hardest of all in the US, due to the professionalism of the repetion - lifelong indoctrination.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 7, 2017 12:08:26 AM | 75

@62 PavewayIV

The Israeli cable to its embassies actually seems like a pretty standard way for a country to set forth the talking points on an issue and have its agents of influence spread the story, doesn't it? The statement by eager Saudi team player Thamer al-Sabhan - about treating Lebanon as if it had declared war, because of its fusion with Hezbollah - was picked up by the Jerusalem Post and magnified by the NYT throughout western media.

As b saw all along, it's part of the attack on Hezbollah, but this is a political action, since no military solution to Hezbollah exists, except in Zionist dreams.

This is not a military action as such but an attempt to engineer an internal political crisis, triggered by the false-flag resignation of Hariri. Nasrallah said this was a mystery that must wait to become clear, but that it was for Saudi reasons, not for Lebanese reasons.

Now we appear to have confirmation that Hariri was indeed forced to resign and probably is under house arrest in Saudi Arabia. So the trigger didn't fire, because Nasrallah and President Michel Aoun declined to call the Hariri action a real thing yet. The crisis appears nicely blocked until Hariri comes back to Lebanon - I have to admire that one.

The goal here is remove Hezbollah from positions of power in the Lebanese governing structure. Whether that would mean removal of Aoun I don't know. Presumably the election-fever and color revolution playbooks would be used to get Hezbollah out of influence.

But to do all this, in this transparent age, means that Israel and Saudi Arabia increasingly reveal their Lebanese position to the world. And to no purpose, I think. We will simply get to learn the inside picture of Lebanese politics, and see where all the puppet strings are. This will be a priceless gift from Israel to the free world.

And it seems to me that if anyone tries a hot war with Lebanon, it entrenches Hezbollah even deeper into Lebanon. Israel may be stupid enough not to see this of course.

This ploy is beginning to feel checkmated, and maybe stillborn. If in fact it's failing, then it's time for Israel to double-down, and fail twice as hard with the next move.

Posted by: Grieved | Nov 7, 2017 12:16:08 AM | 76

according to angry arab earlier - CONFIRMED: Hariri is under House arrest in Riyadh, and his resignation was forced on him
Read the full account by Ibrahim Al-Amin. Don't you like it when March 14 still invokes the slogans about sovereignty of Lebanon?

Posted by: james | Nov 7, 2017 1:55:54 AM | 77

psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2017 11:40:28 PM | 70

The thinking is common throughout the US west but I do find it far more concentrated by people from the US in various comment sections. From what I have read, the US is the one advanced developed nation that offers no universal basic health care.
Over the last 30 years or so, I have watched Australia become americanised. Government owned natural monopolies privatised, kids wearing their hats backwards because they want to copy american kids that are too dumb to know what way to put their hat on and all in between.

Natural monopolies, or sectors where a small group can form a cabal and act as a monopoly to control prices, finance is just one sector of this, should be government owned and controlled. Any of these companies that control monopolies or are part of a small cabal that makes a monoply have the power to control an elected government.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 7, 2017 2:30:10 AM | 78

And again...
New accusation: Russian ‘Bots’ for Stoking the Latino Victory Ad Controversy
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/06/ralph-northam-campaign-blames-russian-bots-stoking-latino-victory-ad-controversy/

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 7, 2017 2:52:19 AM | 79

Grieved | Nov 6, 2017 11:33:52 AM | 11

Very good point that needs to be said and fully understood. A very difficult road to walk.
I've been working on de-programming since the Vietnam invasion. Very difficult inside the cauldron/echo chamber.
My best progress has come from being in a radically different culture, far, far away from westerners for almost 15 years.
It'll be a work in progress until death. This is a certainty (both a work in progress and death).

Posted by: V. Arnold | Nov 7, 2017 3:56:05 AM | 80

ref Bahrein asking its citizen to leave Lebanon, it sounds that Lebanon will soon be on the same list as Qatar, which doesn't mean they plan to attack them

in the French MSM talks about the fiscal paradises but not a word about a guy in ksa confiscating the money of Forbes' richest men

Posted by: Mina | Nov 7, 2017 4:47:17 AM | 81

Funny twist in the Paradise Papers

US looks to push Russia out of EU's energy market while American tankers ship Russian LNG to Europe

...

The probe reveals the EU, which is actively building new LNG terminals to lessen its dependence on Russian natural gas, is currently purchasing Russian fuel but at a higher price and technically not from Russia.

“US companies are ready to search for one-use solutions that bring some profit to them but make it difficult for other states to do business. That characterizes the whole American approach to trade,” said an expert of the International Institute of Humanitarian and Political Studies Vladimir Bruter, as quoted by Russia’s federal news agency.

...

In legal terms, the current situation is not breaking international or any other laws, but the results are yielding fruit for the US, according to the analyst. Although it is not clear how American companies are not violating US sanctions by working with Russian energy firms.

“Nothing personal, it is just business. Americans have bought Russian gas at a profit, and now they are selling it at a profit, concurrently trying to drive Moscow out of the energy market,” Bruter said.

Posted by: somebody | Nov 7, 2017 8:21:21 AM | 82

Red Ryder at 18. However, Trump's indoctrination is based on old line Protestant-capitalism concept and belief that wealth is indicator of God's grace, and he has no other ideological etching. He is waging an economic foreign policy, solely. Imho, more or less right (no quibbles and footnotes offered.) I keep telling US citizens they should read The Art of the Deal - if only because it was a world wide yuuge bestseller.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump:_The_Art_of_the_Deal

does not mention that it has been translated into Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, French, and many more. How many books has DT published? (> amazon: books Trump.) Of course edjicated ‘pwogressives’ can’t possilby fathom that the question is relevant and a correct answer might be interesting. (Not of course that any of these works represent my pov or have any theoretical interest.)

Trump is a tee-totaller, never did any drugs (afaik), does not smoke, and is a serial monogamist (bimbos with punch, kinda 1960 Playboy..) who despises pedophilia, but has nothing against gays. He was never accepted by the top Manhattan socialites / pol circuit / old-money rich. All this makes him ‘a boor’, a ‘misogynist’, a ‘hater’ and so on, he is an outsider, an usurper, an intruder who must be dislodged as quickly as possible. His tweets show he is ‘erratic’, ‘crazy’ and should be impeached, … (Heh, i’m not defending the man i’m no fan..) All these personalia things count, because:

The difficulty in grasping what is going on in US foreign policy comes about in part because the USA is a ‘country’ - better, a corporate congolomerate - that is doing business and is open to the highest bidder (> lobbyists, Clinton foundation, others, etc.) - anybody who pays +++ can get a piece of the pie to get x y z done, but only with quid pro quo… That is why the US has to, at all, any costs, maintain it’s vaunted military superiority, as without that the whole racketering scheme collapses, and rip-offs can’t be implemented. The balance sheet is not adding up any longer, horizons are cracking, the deals aren’t satisfactory, Trump is a last hope.

DT, as a ‘despised’ reformer, mild maverick -- the PTB resist that part of the outcome of their disastrous behavior, they loathe DT and wish him dead, as a symbol of their own loss of power and their incapacity to bow to the inevitable and do something about it.

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 7, 2017 12:01:43 PM | 83

FYI for PH and other barflies interested in banks as a public utility: Ellen Brown writes of Phil Murphy's try for New Jersey Governor, which is being voted on today, since one of his leading campaign points is the establishment of Bank of New Jersey. Revealed is the ignorance of the UK's MPs regarding the issuance of money, which is probably worse within the Outlaw US Empire's Congressional delegation, https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/11/07/the-public-bank-option-safer-local-and-half-the-cost/

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 7, 2017 3:54:58 PM | 84

@ Grieved

Throwing off indoctrination.

We recieve our operating system (character) before we are born. Once we are born, from then on, we recieve indoctrination, good or bad. Seperating the good from the bad and discarding the bad is the hardest part.
I have had the opportunity to observe animals in their wild state, how they react in captivity, and how they react under domestication.
Hunter gatherers that build tempory shelters rather than permanant dwellings are perhaps humans in their natural state. I have also had the opportunity to work with people who's parents were hunter gatherers, who in the off season, were themselves hunter gatheres until the late sixties.

But still I find sections of indocrination that need casting off. Becoming less and less though, so hopefully I am thining them out.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 8, 2017 4:41:18 AM | 85

Follow on to 85

Work with. Not as in a scientist studying insects, nor a do gooder, but to literaly work alongside, and although not my own, develop a respect for their culture and beliefs.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 8, 2017 4:50:17 AM | 86

With an oral history, with no calender nor dates, there is only yesterday, today, and tomorrow. There is no "oh well that was a long time ago". An old man can point to a boy and say I was this big when such and such happened. Otherwise there is nothing to indicate that a piece of history is five thousand years old or one year old. The past is the present and the future will be added to the oral history.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 8, 2017 5:52:24 AM | 87

Some say when you die, you get 72 virgins. mmm sounds like hard work at this time of life.
Others sy you go to a nice place, but as far as I can make out, you just sit around in a white gown with nothing to do. Others believe that your spirit stays with your land. I am not sure that I have spirit or land but it sounds good to me.
Yep. Where my children grew up, and my wife taught them their school lessons. A good place there, a goat camp on a cliff top. A good veiw, no human "improvements" as far as the eye can see. Yep, lay me out on the goat shit under a shady tree where nobody can smell me. Not too keen on a hole in the ground or getting chucked on a conveyer to be fed into a gas furnace.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 8, 2017 7:42:22 AM | 88

i'm so pretty ohh so pretty i'm pretty and pretty and gay

it relates a great deal indeed.
some of you may have thought over the years that the khans are cohen but one should not forget the patel.
mr ms mrs missus pretty patel cares about are takfiri capto gone storm troopers.
so what if she was trying to raise funds for israeli live organ dealings.
it must be noted that the funds would also be used for holiday r and r for the idf hospital staff on the golan can you imagine the smell of
those isis,al nusra assorted heroes of hebrew history.

the idf are simply doing satans work why should not the blackmailed perverts in uk gov rothchild plc support king nuttyahoo.
mr ms pretty certainly has some kosher spunk in her i would say..

on the subject at hand i am surprised nobody has mentioning the idea concepts and realities of the idf inside the house of saud now.
maybe they will be used for security around mecca and medina protecting the cube
indeed

Posted by: charles drake | Nov 8, 2017 9:43:08 AM | 89

Pundits are tracing the new McCarthyism to the Democratic Party. This article by Joe Lauria is an example: HuffPo Yanks Article On Russiagate Hysteria By Award Winning Journalist Joe Lauria – So Here It Is

In this context, the Democratic Party-led Russia-gate offensive was intended not only to explain away Clinton’s defeat but to stop Trump — possibly via impeachment or by inflicting severe political damage — because he had talked, insincerely it is turning out, about detente with Russia. That did not fit in well with the plan at all.
That this was 'pulled' by Huffpost only serves to strengthen the analysis. But this theatrical reinforcing is suspect.

IMO this 'analysis' is tainted. It pulls punches as it guides the reader to a conclusion. Any real analysis should take into account things like:

>> the misuse of intelligence by the Obama Administration - as well as Obama's use of the IRS against political enemies;

>> the famous news conference by billionaire Michael Bloomberg in which he pleads for doing something to prevent Sanders or Trump from becoming President (more theater!);

>> the funky nature of the 2016 race: Sanders' sheep-dogging and Trump's former support for Hillary;

>> Hillary's strange illness at the 911 Memorial remembrance where she appears to be dragged into a van, then emerges healthy hours later (more theater! - a Kabbalah foreshadowing of her losing the Presidential race and return to power?);

>> Trump campaign interaction with Russians or people that had ties to Russians that appear to have been efforts to SET UP such connection to be used later to attack Trump.

It's not enough to find the 'Democratic Party' guilty. Who are the people behind this McCarthyism? Bloomberg, Obama, Hillary, Brennan are suspect. And is it part and parcel of an even wider conspiracy to control the election of 2016?

Here we should note that the supposed Russian connections had almost no effect on the election. Their only practical benefit has been to give Trump an excuse to cave in to establishment wishes.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 8, 2017 9:49:16 AM | 90

Getting closer: Sabotage?: Hillary's Fusion GPS Operative Met With Russian Lawyer Before And After Trump Jr. Meeting

But why was sabotage necessary when everybody knew that Hillary was favored to win? Even Hillary had made it known that she preferred to run against Trump as he would be easy to beat (and so msm dutifully covered Trump - mostly uncritically during the primaries UNTIL he became likely to win).

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 8, 2017 10:09:04 AM | 91

CIA Director Met NSA Whistleblower Who Disputes Russia's Role In DNC Hack
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-07/cia-director-met-nsa-whistleblower-who-disputes-russias-role-dnc-hack

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 8, 2017 1:32:57 PM | 92

@65 Peter

I took some time to think about your comments and one question came to mind more than others about your assumption on the advent of technology replacing labor.

Just like the issue of man-made climate change, there has been no smoking gun with regards to undeniable proof of a human-made ecological disaster, nor of a "skynet" event hysterically taken seriously by theorists like Stephen Hawking. I posit then, that with regards to technology, we have seen demonstrations of future abilities of machines to replace labor, but that is really all they have been. Demonstrations. Like science-fiction novels detailing flying cars by the year 2000, man has grossly overestimated it's ability to outstrip the need for labor. Furthermore, the demonstratable technology is incredibly expensive and cost-prohibitive, if only due to maintenance work needed for machInes to function by skilled human laborers.

I just read of a restaurant chain in (whereelse?) San Francisco that was forced to close three brick and mortar locations because their business model of employing machines to take money and serve handmade quinoa bowls was hitting a snag. And this isn't even a fully-automated endeavor.

And the biggest problem with your argument of labor-needs decreasing is that you leave out the effect of globalism on stifling national labor numbers of a country. Do you think if globalism is soundly defeated by a resurgent nationalism that local workforces wouldn't increase? Perhaps you've heard of the capitalist tendency towards hostile-takeovers, mergers, and downsizing? With each of these examples, companies have attempted to shave the workforce of "excess" labor to make their outfits more profitable. Well, guess what, the the advent of nationalism, that means an undoing of these crippling forces, a resurgent localized economy, and the need for local labor and, in turn, more human resources, etc. You can therefore see that your vision of a robotic economy is lacking in reasonable assumptions.

I hope you find this helpful.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 8, 2017 2:38:26 PM | 93

A tasty tidbit's been revealed--Stephen Bandera, the Ukrainian Fascist leader, was a member of Hitler's elite spy team--and--later worked for the CIA. Now, why am I not surprised? More info at link, http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/11/cia-reveals-bandera-was-german-spy-and.html

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 8, 2017 7:24:31 PM | 94

@89 charles d.. yeah, the last paragraph... will be interesting when we see that!

@90 jackrabbit.. how do you classify huffpo? seems like a real bought out propaganda rag to me.

@93 nemesis c.. one only has to look at the logging, fishing and mining industry here on the westcoast of canada to know just how much technology has replaced labour.. but i liked you example of the restaurant in sf as a contrary example..

@94 karlof1.. that doesn't surprise me either.. now if only the canuck government would examine crystia freelands grandfather who is said to have the same connections with hitler, it would explain some of her zeal for going after russians, not to mention this bone headed magnitsky act brought to us by hermitage financial management bill browder.. canada adopted this same stupid act oct 2017... we have to follow the usa where ever it goes, whether it be into the gutter or what not....

Posted by: james | Nov 8, 2017 9:14:36 PM | 95

@95 James

Sure. Just like the chainsaw increased productivity tenfold. Technology can make labor easier and more profitable. Nothing wrong with that. But think of the companies that make chainsaws. That sell bar oil. That sharpen chains. There will always be a need for skilled labor, at the very least to maintain the wearable items on said machine. Furthermore, millenials gag at the food that the boomers loved. The Beach Boys made their living off talking up the hamburger stand, you know. But nowadays, people want a superior product and this is great news for TRAINED labor. Can a machine make a meal like a desired chef? Negative, ghost rider.

I thought about this analogy today, but you know all the wires and technology in the world doesn't stand a chance to the wearing-down elements of our natural world. Meanwhile, the human skin and intellect continues to amaze and inspire with it's resilience and resourcefulness.

Think of H.G Wells novel or the movie "The War of the Worlds": the greatest show of technology was powerless against basic bacteria that humans encounter everyday. We ain't going away.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 8, 2017 9:49:41 PM | 96

BEIJING, Nov. 9 (Xinhua) -- Chinese and U.S. companies signed trade and investment deals worth more than 250 billion U.S. dollars on Thursday in Beijing.
Chinese President Xi Jinping revealed the figure after he witnessed the signing of those deals alongside visiting U.S. President Donald Trump.
Facts have shown that China and the United States have huge potential in reciprocal economic and trade cooperation, Xi said.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 9, 2017 1:48:18 AM | 97

NemesisCalling

For a time I worked in the logging and saw milling industry. First working for others, then building my own portable setup. That was before I got a bit smarter and found flying was less physical work and brought in better money.

What I am seeing is the tail end of society constantly being chopped off as skill requirements increase. Perhaps liken it to a footrace, where all competetors go out to do their best, yet there is always a winner and a loser with the field stretched out in between. Then on each lap, chop of the last few competitors as they are deemed to be...? deplorables sounds a good word..? We cannot all stand around serving each other nice meals, nor can we all be highly skilled technicians or rocket scientists.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Nov 9, 2017 3:04:56 AM | 98

Now its onward to Danang, Vietnam for the 25th APEC Economic Leaders' Meeting, for which President Putin has addressed a letter opening with the following sentiments:

"As a major Eurasian power with vast Far Eastern territories that boast significant potential, Russia has a stake in the successful future of the Asia-Pacific region, and in promoting sustainable and comprehensive growth throughout its entire territory. We believe that effective economic integration based on the principles of openness, mutual benefit and the universal rules of the World Trade Organisation is the primary means of achieving this goal." http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/56023

Putin then goes into specifics. The meetings's results and closing statement on 11 Nov will make interesting reading; and I wonder if after going to China, signing some substantial deals, and doing some pondering, if the business man within Trump sees that it will be much better for the USA to cooperate with China et al in constructing OBOR instead of trying to hinder/sabotage it, as there's lots of money to be made in the former whereas the latter is just shooting more money into the wind and increasing the alienation of the world to the Outlaw US Empire--the Swamp will want the latter.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 9, 2017 12:08:01 PM | 99

New Wikileaks LEAK: CIA used techniques to impersonate Kaspersky when spying!
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/928651185174794241

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 9, 2017 12:33:27 PM | 100

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