Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 02, 2017

Another Day, Another U.S. Mass Shooting

"Turn down the music. You know uncle Stephen goes berserk when one disturbs his sleep." /snark

One Stephen Paddock rented a room on the 32nd floor of a Las Vegas hotel. Over three days, he brought some ten guns into it. The room was chosen to overlook the space of on upcoming open air concert. 

Last night Paddock waited for the concert to start and then fired his automatic weapons into the crowd. At least fifty-eight people died and some 400 were wounded. The murderer later killed himself.

Paddock is portrait as a reclusive, well-off retiree and is thought to be a professional gambler. There is no hint yet of the mans motive. He is white and has a Christian name. Thus, according to U.S. standards, his killing spree was not terrorism.

The state of Nevada allows about anyone to buy and own automatic rifles. With one pull of the trigger one can fire off a full 30 round magazine within a few seconds.  The use of such machine guns leave the victims in an attack like this no time to escape. With a bit of training, a change of magazines takes less than five seconds. The man must have had more than a thousand rounds to cause such a number of casualties.

The statistics paint a horrible picture of gun violence in the U.S. There is now one mass shooting, with more than four victims, per day:

First 9 months of 2017:
-11,572 gun deaths
-23,365 gun injuries
-271 mass shootings
-1,508 unintentional shootings
-2,971 kids/teens shot

The Onion headlined: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens . It was the fifths time in the last three years that the Onion used the same headline and story. They only switched the photo, the name of the city and the body count.

The gun lobby will again say, "Let's not politicize this tragedy by talking gun control."

Sure, let's wait a few months, at which time there will be another mass shooting.

Every gun massacre is an advertisement for guns. The stocks of gun manufacturers soared today, casino stocks fell.

Posted by b on October 2, 2017 at 01:20 PM | Permalink

Comments
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No, anyone cannot buy an automatic weapon in the U.S.. A special tax & background check is required, so few people bother.

Semi-autos, on the other hand, are legal, as they are in several European countries. Or you can make guns at home using CNC equipment that anyone can buy.

The 1966 Austin tower shooter, Charles Whitman used a bolt action deer rifle. Nothing special is required to shoot fish in a barrel. An autopsy revealed that Whitman had a brain tumor.

Paddocks father was a psychopath on the FBI's most wanted list.

I'm not sure what the answer is? The U.S. has a violent culture, in more ways than one. More corporal punishment, more incarceration, more wars, etc.. That said, homicide rates for white Americans are actually similar to Europe.

Posted by: Dan Lynch | Oct 2, 2017 1:33:38 PM | 1

It's not the guns. It's the culture that worships violence

Posted by: paul | Oct 2, 2017 1:38:25 PM | 2

It is a culture of violence. A desire seems to resurface again and again, one that requires that we "punish" others for either perceived or actual wrong-doings, instead of actually addressing the systemic reasons that make the occurrence so common.

I remember arguing with some family that still lives there - "You have all the facts, but I know how I feel". That was the response after I used facts to disprove many of their arguments about incarcerating ever more people and increasing police brutality to make criminals pay.

Posted by: Out of Istanbul | Oct 2, 2017 1:48:58 PM | 3

how many morons on zerohedge
all blind
guy looks like gene rosen
rita katz mossad news reports
amaq news reports isis mossad owned
the guy looks jewish but they say on israel tv that he has been a muslim for 30 years.
yet he worked in a casino took drink drugs and hung out in strip joints.

this is cover distraction.
the question for the day is what happened what was covered up
who got whack wacked


us israel sentinel drone slaughter of hezbollah unit some say

something happened was needed for zionist too rinse and repeat a sandy hook looking gene rosen sim
las vegas
if mossad says this was isis hit for real
should we believe just because the legacy media says it is.

Posted by: charles drake | Oct 2, 2017 1:50:12 PM | 4

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/oct/02/las-vegas-two-dead-in-mandalay-bay-casino-shooting-latest-updates

Mandalay Bay attack: at least 58 killed in deadliest US shooting
Gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, found dead after police storm hotel room

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 2, 2017 1:58:28 PM | 5

Oh Moon of Alabama mammy forgot to tell you this is looking a lot like another Deep State false Flag.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-02/islamic-state-claims-responsibility-vegas-attack-says-paddock-converted-islam-months

Kudos to ZeroHedge showing Rita Katz tweets that the shooter was Islamic State aka ISIS. Rita always gets all the earliest tweets and beheading videos from ISIS. Anything Rita katz says is a lie and it usually involves the fake Deep State/NATo/Israel/McCain/NeoCon fiction called ISIS.

Posted by: Biz Boy | Oct 2, 2017 2:01:21 PM | 6

at this point, with all the guns out there, there is no way back.

Posted by: mischi | Oct 2, 2017 2:04:51 PM | 7

Let me get this straight. He brought in TEN guns over three days (where they in their cases or broken down and hidden?) into the Mandalay hotel (with all those cameras)and nobody saw anything? BS. I've been to Vegas three times and stayed at the Luxor (been through walkway with shops/restaurants from the Luxor to Mandalay)which is connected to the Mandalay. Too many things are going on at the same time. One thing happens, MSN talks about it for about a week then they are onto the next thing. What ever happened to hurricane Harvey? No ones talking about that anymore. People in Texas are talking about the FEMA camps and people disappearing never to be heard from again. I don't like guns. It's a personal choice but I support the 2nd amendment and this feels like another attempt at going after the right to bear arms and anyone who was in the military.

Posted by: NewYorker | Oct 2, 2017 2:06:34 PM | 8

The shooting went on for 10 minutes. While I understand why it would take that long for police to break into that room, it should have been possible for security guards at the concert to fire suppressing fire almost immediately. Spotting the window where the guy was unloading automatic fire would be pretty easy to do.

I wouldn't trust Paul Blart, Mall Cop with a hand gun because he would be more likely to hit surrounding apartments, but having a few well trained marshals with long rifles should be pretty easy to come by.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Oct 2, 2017 2:08:23 PM | 9

America is awash in guns. More regulation won't help as long as there are 300 million guns sitting around ready to be bought, sold, and stolen. Any real gun control effort has to be two-pronged - buy-backs and heavy regulation at the source - the manufacturers.

But because of our 2nd amendment worshiping culture we can forget about it. Instead, we will get some gun control on the margins that will do nothing to help, and in the meantime the culture war surrounding these minuscule efforts will do more to rip us apart.

It's interesting how choices we made decades ago has put us in an intractable mess. If we never would have adopted an employee-centered, health insurance dominating system we could have universal healthcare. But rolling that back now is not feasible because millions depend on these bloated health-sector jobs. Likewise, weapons manufacturers have smartly places their plants across all 50 states and so no senator will bother trying to reduce defense spending and thus, we get stuck in perpetual war.

So next time the media starts yapping about millennials, remind them that it is our grandparents who set up the system we are stuck in now.

Posted by: Banality of Reason | Oct 2, 2017 2:12:16 PM | 10

Only the government should be allowed to have weapons, like in the Soviet Union where they disarmed citizens and slaughtered tens of millions.

Posted by: Ara | Oct 2, 2017 2:16:44 PM | 11

Update: the source linked to by b says there have been 11,653 gun deaths in 2017.

Posted by: spudski | Oct 2, 2017 2:17:47 PM | 12

Mischi @7

You said: "at this point, with all the guns out there, there is no way back."

Sadly, that is true. There are millions of guns out there already, some legal and some not so legal.

Posted by: forgetful | Oct 2, 2017 2:19:54 PM | 13

Imagine if the killer had a chemistry degree, a rental truck, and tons of fertilizer. He could have really done some damage. I think it's time to ban fertilizer. /snark

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Oct 2, 2017 2:21:37 PM | 14

Come off your high horse. You can't see a conspiracy when it hits you between the eyes? Every one of these "nuts" turns out to have been mind controlled by government agents. The would be world conquerers MUST get the guns away from Americans before they can do this as the U.S. is still key. No matter what country you live in be damned grateful that Americans still have guns.

Publish something about all the lives saved and crimes not committed every day by alert Americans who carry weapons. Never even occurred to you, did it?

Posted by: Tony B. | Oct 2, 2017 2:23:02 PM | 15

b has it right. "Another day, another mass shooting."

"It's just business, get over it."

Huge gun show in Vegas this next week-end....

"What goes around, comes around."

SAD!

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 2:23:55 PM | 16

>>>> Dan Lynch | Oct 2, 2017 1:33:38 PM | 1

Semi-autos, on the other hand, are legal, as they are in several European countries.

From what I've read anyone with decent machining skills could convert an semi-auto AK47 back to fully automatic. If you listen to the sound of the shots on any of the videos, it does sound similar to an automatic
According to the Guardian, there are ways to fire a semi-automatic rifle as though it were an automatic, either an add-on device or bump firing. The article claims these are devices or techniques no "real" shooter would use and they introduce inaccuracy, but going by the number of videos on YouTube, I don't believe the former and the latter doesn't matter if you are firing into a large crowd as in Las Vegas. After watching a demonstration of bump firing it's not difficult to see how with a little bit of work you could make a device that makes bump firing easy.
From listening to the footage of the attack, Ayoob said that the gunshots “did not sound as consistent” as he would typically expect from a fully automatic M-16 or AK-47. “The pace of fire is a little bit erratic. At one point it’s slower than it is at another point.”

Paddock could have used a Hellfire or a bump-fire device, which attach to normal semi-automatic rifles and allow them to fire more rapidly, Ayoob said. These devices are legal, but rarely used by serious shooters, he said.

“It’s hard to shoot accurately with them, and serious shooters want accuracy,” he said. He called them “not terribly popular” and “something a gun geek would want”.

For the Las Vegas shooter, though, the accuracy of these devices would not have mattered, since he was “hosing a two-acre area with 30,000 targets,” nearly every shot he fired would have hit someone.

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 2, 2017 2:24:20 PM | 17

it's a sad and unfortunate day for a lot of innocent people.. many folks are suffering from this event.. my heart goes out to them..

i think many people know what has to happen for this to stop too...

Posted by: james | Oct 2, 2017 2:25:25 PM | 18

Perspective please:

40,200 deaths by automobile in 2017 USA
52,000+ deaths by drug overdose in 1st 9 months of 2017 USA
44,200 suicides per year USA average
31,900 deaths by falling USA average
42,000 deaths by unintentional poisoning USA average

This, based on the numbers above, is a complete grandstanding sideshow by people wanting to deny gun ownership. Look at the numbers above and then explain why none of these other causes of death are being targeted by legislation, protests or organizations?

Oilman2 smells a lot of rats with an agenda that isn't about preventing deaths...

Posted by: Oilman2 | Oct 2, 2017 2:33:31 PM | 19

Unfortunateéy guns are more than just America's problem. US guns are a world-wide problem. Add up the people killed by US supplied arms and the total is horrendous. (Automatic or not).

Then we get the insane "expert" comments on how to make supposedly single-shot weapons into automatics. OK, it is "expertise", but why do we never hear of ways to REALLY limit guns to single shot? (Note "insane" in this context is similar to the scientists who discussed the "overkill" of the planet using nuclear weapons - just before there was a general gasp at the insanity of scientists proclaiming that the world would be dead - ten or more times - in a nuclear war. But the US would kill more "times" than the Russians)

Posted by: stonebird | Oct 2, 2017 2:40:07 PM | 20

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

They always forget about the "well regulated" part. This paragraph was written as a full statement. The right to "keep and bear arms" applies to a"well regulated" militia,. but the Supreme Court bowing to business interests, IMO, decided it applied to individuals.

And the beat goes on..

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 2:40:56 PM | 21

@20 Stonebird

I fail to see how attributing blame to weapons makers matter, because if not the US then someone else would gladly take their market share. Like say perhaps the Russians with the Kalishnakov, the MOST exported weapon in world history.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Oct 2, 2017 2:49:50 PM | 22

>>>> Christian Chuba | Oct 2, 2017 2:08:23 PM | 9

The shooting went on for 10 minutes. While I understand why it would take that long for police to break into that room, it should have been possible for security guards at the concert to fire suppressing fire almost immediately. Spotting the window where the guy was unloading automatic fire would be pretty easy to do.
Get real. Someone has to work out whats happening, identify where the gunfire is coming from and call 911. The 911 operator has to take down the details and pass them to the police. The police then have to work out what they have available and dispatch them to the location. The police then need to work out what's really happening and start taking action. That's going to take more than ten minutes. It's lucky that the shooter did kill himself because if he'd kept going until the police entered his room there would be a lot more than 58 dead. As for suppressing fire, the distance from the hotel to the festival site is over 400 metres. Pistols and shotguns would be useless at that range so you're looking at a battle rifle (AR-15/M-4/M-16/FN SLR/whatever).
I wouldn't trust Paul Blart, Mall Cop with a hand gun because he would be more likely to hit surrounding apartments, but having a few well trained marshals with long rifles should be pretty easy to come by.
Why would the festival organiser see the need? Was there any intelligence to suggest this was going to happen?

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 2, 2017 2:50:49 PM | 23

This thing is already taking on every last parallel to the usual federal operation when so many different stories are floated that no one will ever be able to piece together the truth. That's a dead giveaway that it is a government operation.

Every one of these operations is aimed at causing exactly what the writer here is doing - created empathy against private gun ownership. THAT is always connected to finding some way to justify martial law in this already police state.

Also, it was stated that people in Nevada can buy automatic weapons. That's a flat out lie. Automatic weapons have been outlawed in the the U.S. for private ownership without a special government permit - almost never allowed - since the 1930s.

Posted by: Tony B. | Oct 2, 2017 2:51:14 PM | 24

The Outlaw US Empire has always killed indiscriminately overseas, although that behavior has greatly increased since 1945, while most mass shootings within the Empire are also mostly indiscriminate. The Feds have declared there's zero link between Daesh and Paddock, so the former's claims to responsibility was another lie as I'd assumed. Clearly, the entire event was premeditated, so a motive ought to eventually be discerned unless it was just another case of anomie. Those merely wounded are quite fortunate. And yes, it will happen again. This was one thing that happened in Vegas that won't stay there--we're there some movies made depicting not-quite murderous behavior happening there over the past several years?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 2, 2017 2:51:15 PM | 25

Almost every kid that shot up a school was taking serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

Let see what reports emerge on the shooters use of drugs.

Posted by: AriusArmenian | Oct 2, 2017 2:54:21 PM | 26

>>>> Biz Boy | Oct 2, 2017 2:01:21 PM | 6

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-02/islamic-state-claims-responsibility-vegas-attack-says-paddock-converted-islam-months

ISIS can do opportunistic. That they claimed responsibility means nothing. Their PR department was probably monitoring Twitter, etc. as soon as they picked up the first indications that some thing was happening in Las Vegas. It's not just Anglo-Saxons who do IO.

Kudos to ZeroHedge showing Rita Katz tweets that the shooter was Islamic State aka ISIS. Rita always gets all the earliest tweets and beheading videos from ISIS. Anything Rita katz says is a lie and it usually involves the fake Deep State/NATo/Israel/McCain/NeoCon fiction called ISIS.

Posted by: Biz Boy | Oct 2, 2017 2:01:21 PM | 6

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 2, 2017 2:56:59 PM | 27

@ ben 21

So what happens in the US when a militia is formed, Ben?

The Federal Government will very pointedly and mercilessly persecute those involved in militias. Your tax returns are audited and gun permits all checked at very crazy times (like after dark) and you get pulled over more often by state police.

Therefore, the reality is that militias are now tacitly considered illegal. Therefore, the SCOTUS was likely correct in their interpretation, regardless of their stated reason at that point in time.

I would also suggest you look at the death numbers I posted above and get a handle on the reality we live in.

@ Stonebird 20

So you would suggest that the US, being the premier supplier of arms worldwide, is the sole problem. Israel, China, Russia, France, UK, India and others are, of course, not critical sources for arms.

@ NemesisCalling 14

We already have to get a background check and a permit to buy ammonium nitrate in bulk. Only reason it isn't illegal is that USA agriculture would be dead without its use.


Dang but the comments today are pretty lame...

Posted by: Oilman2 | Oct 2, 2017 2:57:59 PM | 28

>>>> Biz Boy | Oct 2, 2017 2:01:21 PM | 6

Oh Moon of Alabama mammy forgot to tell you this is looking a lot like another Deep State false Flag.

Bollocks. ISIS can do opportunistic. That they claimed responsibility means nothing. Their PR department was probably monitoring Twitter, etc. as soon as they picked up the first indications that some thing was happening in Las Vegas. It's not just Anglo-Saxons who do IO.

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 2, 2017 3:00:10 PM | 29

Take a look at this exterior photo of the Mandaley Bay hotel provided by NBC news (see: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2017/10/01/32nd%20floor_0.jpeg ). We see a broken window from two different rooms on the 32nd floor of the hotel.

Now let's take a virtual tour of a 550 square foot luxury room in the hotel (see: https://www.mandalaybay.com/en/hotel/resort-king.html ). We see there are two adjacent floor-to-ceiling windows. Referring back to the NBC photo, we can estimate there are at least 4 rooms in between the rooms with the broken windows.

It asks the question, "Can a lone gunman run between two different rooms to shoot automatic fire at a crowd in the late evening (10:00pm est) hundreds of yards below the floor?" The second question even more incredulous is, "Why would he/she take such measures?"

I don't believe the "lone gunman" theory at all. We must look elsewhere for answers to this most horrific crime.

Posted by: PokeTheTruth | Oct 2, 2017 3:02:36 PM | 30

Hey, Ben, the phrase "a well regulated militia" refers to the milita of 1770s, not what is in your mind. That meant every capable person with weapons kept in the home who would get together when possible to practice to keep a sharp aim. Similar to what Switzerland requires of its people today I'm told.

It didn't mean the unlawful "national guard" which was originally the various state militias until they were unconstitutionally stolen by Eisenhower and made into another federal army AGAINST the states.

Posted by: Tony B. | Oct 2, 2017 3:03:40 PM | 31

@ 28: "So what happens in the US when a militia is formed, Ben?"

Used to be called the National Guard, and was "well regulated", and called out in times of emergencies. The new definition of militias is a bunch of posers with semi-automatic weapons acting out an unofficial role they make-up as they pose, and act-out their made-up causes.

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 3:12:11 PM | 32

This map impressed me as to just how far away the shooter was ... it's actually surprising the police located him so quickly (I'm guessing the broken window was the tip off, but still, at that distance, plenty of other high vantage points for a possible shooter ...
The concert was across the reception/drive way of the hotel and a busy intersection two large boulevards. With such a large crowd he probably didn't need to "aim" much, and yet it sounds like he did. How powerful a gun and gun sight needed on his 10 guns!

Map as published on Newsweek twitter feed.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 2, 2017 3:13:50 PM | 33

For some deranged mind, it is one of these popular violent video games coming real!

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 2, 2017 3:14:48 PM | 34

America is not "awash in guns". America is "awash" in people awashed in self-pity, many of whom have guns.

Posted by: William Robert Manning | Oct 2, 2017 3:18:36 PM | 35

so glad he was not a terrorist!
just a good old boy exercising his constitutional rights
maybe he did not like country music?

Posted by: mauisurfer | Oct 2, 2017 3:18:37 PM | 36

@ Posted by: Virgile | Oct 2, 2017 3:14:48 PM | 34

and dozens of TV police show episodes, not to mention at a half-dozen Hollywood movies ... some even award-winning and critically acclaimed as I recall.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 2, 2017 3:18:38 PM | 37

@ 31: "Hey, Ben, the phrase "a well regulated militia" refers to the milita of 1770s, not what is in your mind.

What's in my mind, are the words "well regulated militia". These original militias were commanded by regular army people, not a bunch yahoos playing soldier.

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 3:21:39 PM | 38

@19 oilman... i find your comparisons really lacked.. sorry... a lot of death is needless - from automobiles, drugs - over the counter, or illegal, and from guns too... to lump them all in the same box and compare the numbers is really missing the point... most folks are going to continue to drive and most folks will continue to support the pharma industry too, but to think that people need to have guns for shit like this is just plain wrong... don't rip up your nra membership anytime soon though, as a lot of money is routing for a continuation of the same..

awaiting more info like @26 ariusamerican...

Posted by: james | Oct 2, 2017 3:22:59 PM | 39

Next to all the (semi-)automatic guns the not-terrorist used which can be obtained legally for private use in the wonderful US of A, wouldn't it be great if RPGs, ATGMs and maybe even portable nuclear bombs could be bought at Walmart? Think of it, tons of money can be made here especially when it's all unregulated (regulation is so communist). This booming business would also help solve unemployment in the weapon factories, morgues and clinics. One day police might even become obsolete.

So next time when there is a mass shooting, people in the public who happen to carry an RPG can just take out the mass shooter themselves instead of waiting for a SWAT team.

Posted by: Charles | Oct 2, 2017 3:29:28 PM | 40

AA @ 26:"Almost every kid that shot up a school was taking serotonin reuptake inhibitors."

"Let see what reports emerge on the shooters use of drugs."


Agreed..

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 3:30:51 PM | 41

@ 9 Christian Chuba

The cops are ordinarily armed with 9 mm pistols. The hotel was 300 yards from the concert. Those pistols aren't accurate at that range. No one in their right mind is going to shoot at a hotel full of visitors with that level of inaccuracy.

Posted by: sleepy | Oct 2, 2017 3:31:03 PM | 42

@28 oilman

So a resourceful terrorist couldn't ever get their hand on 100 bags of ammonium nitrate? What about other bomb making methods? What about other methods of terrorism? Blocking fire exits? I guess you think that insisting on permits will curb the gathering of myriad mediums for terrorism. If that is true, then you missed the point of my post.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Oct 2, 2017 3:31:54 PM | 43

nice patsy
he may not have been for real for real.
drunk in the shots helped up too his room
drugged mick finned knocked out on the bed ukrainia snipers do the biz
kill him dead walk out of the room
michael mann the director of heat did a better job.
real or fake this was cover
you folks talking here of lone wolf or gun control are sayanim polluting the well.
gun control is minor these story are for clearing the news desks

what happened in the world today so this could cover
what did israel do today

on a side note the security firm doing the super bowl just been sacked 2 years early gig given too g4s
if you aint heart a wackenhut,g4s,serco and dynecorp you better shape up.

even zionist agent george webb does not talk of dyne corpse any more.
keep polluting folks


trumped allowed this if he comes out and goes along with the script then we are back into the obarmy every 3 week cycle

what is the day today in the talmud blood events happen on certain holidays

spilling of blood ritual yes sir

Posted by: charles drake | Oct 2, 2017 3:34:13 PM | 44

50 comments maybe one critical thinker
my spelling is bad
but my smell is good i smell
sheeple
surrounded by sayanim wolves
please upload the links from the 10 thousand mobile phones
or maybe like manchester event we get 2 m

maybe 3 angles out of 10s of thousand of people
cos nobody has 4k phones now do they

do not fret goy unkle james will be along in a bit too correct the path towards the scripted path

james too the wrangler station
round up time

Posted by: charles drake | Oct 2, 2017 3:43:57 PM | 45

On militias from 1777:

"every State shall always keep up a well-regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accoutered, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition and camp equipage."

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 3:53:03 PM | 46

>> Ben @ 21

"well regulated militia"

But others studiously ignore the meaning of the words “the people.” Constitutional scholars know that when the founders drafted the Constitution, they were careful to assure that a word or phrase in one part of the document meant exactly the same thing in all other parts of the document. So, if the “the people,” as used in the second amendment, really meant “the militia,” then we would have to read other sections of the Constitution like this:

We the militia of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union . . .”

“The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the militia of the several States . . .”

“. . .the right of the militia peaceably to assemble . . .”

“. . . the right of the militia to keep and bear Arms . . .”

“. . .The right of the militia to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects . . .”

“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the militia.

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the militia.

“The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the militia thereof . . .”

“. . . the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the militia fill the vacancies by election . . .”

//////////

James Madison, Federalist #46 (extract):

“Extravagant as the supposition is, let it however be made. Let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal government; still it would not be going too far to say, that the State governments, with the people on their side, would be able to repel the danger.

“The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence.

“It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.

“Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.” [i](et seq)[/i]

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed46.asp

//

“We have found no historical evidence that the Second Amendment was intended to convey militia power to the states, limit the federal government's power to maintain a standing army, or applies only to members of a select militia while on active duty. All of the evidence indicates that the Second Amendment, like other parts of the Bill of Rights, applies to and protects individual Americans.” U.S. v. Emerson, 5th court of Appeals decision, November 2, 2001, No. 99-10331

and from the same decision -- “The plain meaning of the right of the people to keep arms is that it is an individual, rather than a collective, right and is not limited to keeping arms while engaged in active military service or as a member of a select militia such as the National Guard ...”

Posted by: AntiSpin | Oct 2, 2017 3:56:18 PM | 47

Two windows...I don't believe the "lone gunman" theory at all. We must look elsewhere for answers to this most horrific crime.
Posted by: PokeTheTruth | Oct 2, 2017 3:02:36 PM | 30
I think you may be right,for now that the Pentagon has eliminated all of Trump's chosen staff, my guess is the deep state is getting back to its Obama era agenda, starting with ending the second amendment. You know; to keep us safe.

Posted by: frances | Oct 2, 2017 3:58:35 PM | 48

@ Nemisis 43

Commercially available ammonium nitrate fertilizer is now mixed with calcium, which does nothing for its fertilizer potential, but drastically inhibits its explosive potential.

Uncalcified prilled AN is still available to the mining industry because its explosive capabilities are still very useful, however it requires more than a background check and an explosives license to obtain.

Yes, a resourceful terrorist might be able to stockpile enough AN to make a bomb (nothing is impossible) but it has been made a hell of a lot harder with little to no disruption to agricultural operators.

Needing a permit and background check to purchase bulk AN fertilizer (@ oilman 28) is surveillance police state overreach, not an honest attempt to prevent terrorists.

Posted by: poo is fertilizer too | Oct 2, 2017 4:08:50 PM | 49

AS @ 47: Thanks for the semantics and opinions:) So what about the "well regulated" part?

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 4:13:38 PM | 50

Stranger than fiction.
So, what kind of contraption did the lone automatic gunman build to be able to fire more than one weapon at once? Because one can hear gun fire interference on the yt videos. The kind two car engines can produce at a traffic light.
Secondly, Hollywood always showed in vox office hits how it's done.
If anything, this shows that the noose is tightening around the people's neck. More reasons for concocted 'laws' enforcement crews to stop you anytime at their will.
It's Goodnight on so many levels. But since the populations on earth cannot be bothered to end the reign of the plutocrats, one can only vanish in an ocean of disappearing folks.
Oh well, right?

Posted by: nottheonly1 | Oct 2, 2017 4:14:53 PM | 51

@Ghostship and sleepy, this shooting is water under the bridge. I was referring to future outdoor events where there is a very large crowd. Paying security to have one or two sharp shooters to counter a mass shooting is not unreasonable since it is amortized over several thousand ticket paying customers. As it was, you had cops at the scene who were only able to point to the exits. We had the wrong mix of security.

Here's some troll bait, let's send our cops to learn from the miracle of Israeli security procedures ... just kidding. We have a lot of military types who could figure out the details. The point is that return fire, quickly done can be very helpful because it can disorient the shooter even if you don't hit him buying time for the other cops to show up at the scene. You need a professional to prevent more harm than good being done. Why would it be so hard for a professional to accurately discover the point of fire? The guy was firing a machine gun from a clear line of site.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Oct 2, 2017 4:15:54 PM | 52

ben says:

Huge gun show in Vegas this next week-end....

yeah ben, this is our predicament, the plight of our culture at this stage of our civilization.

Posted by: john | Oct 2, 2017 4:17:28 PM | 53

P.S. Most of the debate over gun ownership is about regulation of guns, not a complete ban.

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 4:18:38 PM | 54

Nemesis 2@
Oilman G28

I could have been clearer. I am not referring to simply the sellers of guns. What I think is that war and guns (ie their use) is a medical problem. It is not even unique to the US as you point out.

ie. Do you think that the shooter Patrick was sane? (trick question). Normal answer is no, BUT if he was shooting for a belief is he still to be considered "insane"? (Supporting a religion/political theory/ISIS/Use of guns/boredom with retirement ). What then is the mental condition of a mercenary (Who does not necessarily have a "belief" but a desire for gain?). Or a soldier, etc.
I'm coming to the conclusion that there is very little difference between them. Only an attitude and societetal acceptance. Basically are they ALL mad?

Unfortunately the US political "leaders", if they see a problem in a foreign country, apparently think that the appropriate answer is to send in more arms. (Syria, Iraq as examples, but you can also include countries that they want to "regime change"). Is this sane behaviour? Are Kim Jong Un and Trump, or Hillary or Mad Dog Mattis sane? (rhetorical question, each is different). Should we not consider that all humans that want to kill their fellows, are in need of couselling and internement in padded rooms?

Posted by: stonebird | Oct 2, 2017 4:22:22 PM | 55

Really shocked that a lot of posters here are actually buying/believing the MSM narrative here.
Actually jaw dropping shocked.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Oct 2, 2017 4:26:27 PM | 56

Wonder why mass shooters in US and Europe almost never taken alive. Authorities scared about what they might say?

Posted by: Ace Hanlon | Oct 2, 2017 4:41:15 PM | 57

>>Ben @ 50

So what about the "well regulated" part?

Covered in the second section of my post. Not sure what is being implied by the phrase "semantics and opinions."

And here's some more:

The origin of the phrase "a well regulated militia" comes from a 1698 treatise "A Discourse of Government with Relation to Militias" by Andrew Fletcher, (a document widely published during the colonial and revolutionary periods, and was the basis for state and federal 'bills of rights' ) in which the term "well regulated" was equated with "well-behaved" or "disciplined."

The Dick Act of 1903 designated the National Guard as the "organized militia" and all other citizens as the "unorganized militia"

In other words -- everybody.
(emphasis added)

//

The right was embedded in, and derived from, the constitutions of several of the states at the time:

Connecticut: “Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state.”

Kentucky: “The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.”

Pennsylvania: “That the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the state ... The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.”

Rhode Island: “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

Vermont: “The people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State.”

Connecticut: “Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the State.”

Posted by: AntiSpin | Oct 2, 2017 4:57:08 PM | 58

Oilman's right on the quality of the comments. That may be due to all the excitement the media turns on.

Right now very little is known. Vegas has the highest suicide rate in the U.S., and there's no reason to believe his life wasn't falling apart. He may just have gone off the rails as his brother said. (But obviously without automatic weapons he would've had to throw a chair through the window and rain pillows and things down on passersby.)

He moved to Nevada two years ago, and became a "professional" gambler. Right. Meyer Lansky who founded Vegas said -- or maybe it was Johnny Roselli who ran it in its glory days -- "You gotta be stupid to gamble here." Gamble there long enough and all your money will be gone.

First reports were he was using his girlfriend's credit cards, so maybe his money was gone. And maybe the girlfriend was too. She was apparently out of the country and maybe back home in Australia.

How much alcohol did he have in him?

Vegas has plenty of shooting ranges, but getting ten rifles into the room would have taken some doing. Maybe he passed himself off as a dealer there for the gun show? Maybe he carried them up from his car one at a time in a golf bag. Who at the Mandalay is going to worry?

Mostly what it shows is that with modern firearms, or with a truck, or with a knowledge of bomb-making someone in an altered mind state can do lots of damage.

Posted by: Ken Nari | Oct 2, 2017 4:58:59 PM | 59

NemesisCalling @14

Actually fertilizer is banned. One can buy a fifty caliber machine gun easier than a bag of ammonia nitrate.

Posted by: ger | Oct 2, 2017 5:06:10 PM | 60

I can't even be bothered buying into the gun debate anymore. Amerikans choose to ignore a reality that is plain as the nose on their faces, that is their loss. These mass shootings are some of the few evil acts committed by amerikans that only damage the brainwashed, violence adoring population itself. If they don't wanna change why should the rest of the world concern themselves with it? Fucked up is as fucked up does. Or as a certain later famous 1950's prez candidate put it "What me worry"

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 2, 2017 5:07:51 PM | 61

>> Christian Chuba @ 9

"it should have been possible for security guards at the concert to fire suppressing fire almost immediately."

In the dark? At 400 yards? Impossible.

For one thing, handguns are useless at that range, having at most a 3 - 5-inch sight radius, and a rainbow-shaped trajectory.

As for rifles, a 400-yard shot is very difficult for all but the very well-trained. Then there's the matter of it having been dark. How are you going to sight on your target when you're under some amount of light and he's in the dark? And what if you miss? At that range it would be easy, and if you do miss, then the bullet goes through the room's ceiling and into the room above.

There's simply no way for return fire or suppressive fire to work under the conditions at the time, but there would be a huge possibility of hitting some innocent person or persons.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Oct 2, 2017 5:12:03 PM | 62

Two broken windows certainly begs for answers. Did this man really shoot these shots?
Or was he killed before the shooting began?

We will never know.

Now I am surprised b has not taken trumps tweets about Rex Tillerson's diplomacy
and his answer to San Juan's Mayor begging for help as a subject.

Posted by: CarlD | Oct 2, 2017 5:12:56 PM | 63

We've seen terrible attacks using vehicles yet no demands to ban vehicles.

Now, suppose he really was the gunman (not that I don't have suspicions) ... what did he hope to accomplish? The guy was 64?!?

It's clear that he planned the attack and that implies a well-considered motive. He was no raging lunatic. He planned for high visibility and a high body count. He wanted to send a message.

Did he have something against this particular group (mostly white?, country music fans? Las Vegas people? etc.) Do you think that he wasn't aware that attacks like these generally only generate sympathy for whatever grouping is targeted?

Barring some personal grudge and severe mental defect, the only thing this attack accomplishes is to increase support for banning of guns. And, in that regard, it's hard to shake misgivings stemming from Obama's "Fast and Furious" fiasco. There is clearly an agenda to disarm the nationalists.

Cui bono?

Obama couldn't ban weapons it from the left, but Trump might be able to from the right. We need to see how this develops. What will we learn about the "lone gunman" and what will Trump's response be?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 2, 2017 5:21:23 PM | 64

I highly recommend the work of Lois Beckett ... now of the Guardian but previously (years) with Propublica focusing on the myriad issues involved

Guardian: Beckett's 5 parter.

Baying for gun laws hasn't worked for the last ... gee how many years? Columbine was in 1999, Sandy Hook in 2012.
Good news is that gun laws are likely not the solution to America's gun problem(s)

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 2, 2017 5:27:31 PM | 65

i hope after this sad event the usa will finally realise that the only friend it has left in the world is israel.
it is indeed a mystery how this loan wolf sleeper cell could have remained hidden in the homelands for over 30 years practicing even as a muslim.
these events can only bring israel and the usa together thank god we have site intel group amaq news and rita katz trying too keep us safe.

it is such a shame that site and debka files are ignored by many until it is to late already.
this fellow has all the hall marks of a bagdaddy agent being undercover for 30 years and such a good shot only shows are methodical these evil doers are.

this is not the time for critical thinking rubbish we need too support are military police in these troubling excelerating times

Posted by: daniel golani | Oct 2, 2017 5:34:16 PM | 66

The whole story about Stephen Paddock smells fishy. He's 64 years of age, retired, apparently well-off and with an otherwise squeaky clean police record. He's reclusive but many men aged 60+ years are loners. Could there be a possibility that Paddock was set up as a patsy or that his ID papers were stolen? Perhaps his girlfriend should be a person of interest for the police.

The ISIS connection is very odd too and it's possible that whoever was behind that ISIS tweet jumped the, er ... gun, so to speak. People may well start to see ISIS for what it is now: something (by whom?) to whip the public into panicked hysteria with.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 2, 2017 5:49:26 PM | 67

@66

Somebody said the good thing with women is that they stick with you in your troubles,
troubles you would not have if you were not with her.

So, having alienated all America's friends through the policies it exacts from the US,
Israel is now the only "friend" the US has.

But with "friends" like Israel, who needs enemies?

Posted by: CarlD | Oct 2, 2017 5:54:26 PM | 68

Trump isn't helping calling it an 'act of pure evil'. Too many people think evil is cool. He'd do better calling it an act of total insanity.

Posted by: Dh | Oct 2, 2017 6:24:40 PM | 69

Sorry, you lost me on this post. Another day, another mass shooting certainly applies to US foreign policy, but apparently that is a different story. It's ok if the victims aren't white and don't live in some vassal state of the US. You won't have to wait a few months, just wait a few days for more "collateral damage" or drone victims, etc etc

Maybe this shooting is a false flag, maybe just some crazy bastard with guns, I don't know. I pity the victims but I don't buy your implied argument that the solution is to disarm the US public. Having an armed public may be the last hope we have of preventing a full-fledged fascist police state in the US, although honestly we are pretty damn close now.

Posted by: Perimetr | Oct 2, 2017 6:27:38 PM | 70

My comment is a call for people to get some perspective on the numbers related to firearms related deaths in the USA. I did not pull the firearms suicides from the firearms numbers, which would lower them dramatically. I am not condoning murder of any type, and I am predominantly antiwar, with a very few exceptions. I do not think a permit will stop anyone intent on making a bomb either. You will not be able to "unsell" firearms in the USA and most other places - that cow has long been out of the barn.

When someone gets it into their head to go nuts, then they will do so. Think of how many people have simply rammed cars into crowds recently. There are myriad ways to make chlorine gas from off-the-shelf components and growing nasty bacterial cultures does not require a college degree - just reading some material online. When people decide to do things like this, they are deranged because their actions are illogical.

I don't have enough facts to say whether this guy was a Mossad agent or some kind of brainwashed CIA type, but the way this mess goes down is irrational and it isn't terrorism.

If I were a terrorist, the easiest and least risky targets are the soft ones - like the power grid or internet trunklines or high pressure gas lines that have zero security. A potato gun firing a frozen tater can take a plane out from the end of a runway, and nobody will even know you are shooting it. Water pumping stations and sewage stations can cause havoc for weeks - and are easy targets. Everybody learns in Warfare 101 that the two things that turn the tide in war are: 1) water & 2) food. Sewage turns quite a tide in cities rather quickly as well.

Things like these incidents are not from some master plan, but are most likely events by someone deranged and acting without logic or a valid target. If the target is a venue, then it is very likely that the guy doing the deed has been controlled and goaded and herded into that act - because an honest terrorist would clearly know what targets cause the most headache. And a concert isn't one of those type of targets.

If they were anti-government, then government would be the target.
If they were anti-bank, then a bank would be the target.
If they were anti-military, then a base or bunch of off-duty guys might be targeted.

So was this guy anti-country music?

The key here is the same old question: CUI BONO?

Posted by: Oilman2 | Oct 2, 2017 6:31:35 PM | 71

Ben, you're full of shit. The original militias were plain, ordinary citizens. Get out of you NWO dream world and face reality.

Posted by: Tony B. | Oct 2, 2017 6:38:38 PM | 72

Anyone can own an automatic firearm? Other than the licensing and background check, look up how much they cost. Plus, owning one pretty much gives a house key to the Feds.

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Oct 2, 2017 6:42:25 PM | 73

65

Yes, it is deeply cultural, you just have to compare an American detective novel (full of shoot outs) with a British detective novel (no guns).

The online gambling stuff is interesting as related to all type of money laundering and crime.

Usually countries not only restrict guns but gambling, too.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 2, 2017 6:47:12 PM | 74

The US obsession with guns - or should I say the settlement of scores with guns - is mirrored by their government's obsession with lethal weapons in the world at large. Its a gun-toting nation in every sense.

Posted by: Hermius | Oct 2, 2017 6:47:48 PM | 75

It is illegal for any private civilian to own any fully automatic weapons manufactured after May 19, 1986. Manufacturing replacement parts for pre-ban automatics is illegal.

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | Oct 2, 2017 6:50:30 PM | 76

Everyone in the world, Americans included, need to understand that the real criminals, the real murderers, the real destroyers of families and civilization in America (and almost all other nations) are the people at the top of government, those running the country into its grave, the top bankers who finance the criminality, academia which legitimizes it, the media which tells every lie needed and covers up every damaging truth. Also the Rothschild financed corporations who destroy everything that is important to a decent life for a buck.

The common citizen just wants to be left alone to live his life in peace. In every country.

How many million people in the Middle East have been killed in the last few years by the cabal of U.S.,neo-cons Israeli self-loving Nazis, British zionists, Saudi haters of anything not run by their insane excuse of a religion, all Rothschild prostitutes running their nations? Millions, not ten, not a hundred, not a thousand. Somewhere in the world the cabal killing always goes on, never stops. Put some energy into stopping that satanic murder of innocents for a change.

Posted by: Tony B. | Oct 2, 2017 6:54:46 PM | 77

Can we just put this "militia" nonsense to bed once and for all? An actual armed force capable of taking on any modern state-supplied military would require, well, basically the list of arms that the CIA poured into Syria and put in the hands of ISIS and Al Qaeda - fully automatic weapons, sniper rifles, gazillions of rounds of ammunition, anti-tank rockets, rocket-propelled grenades, mortars, etc. And even then, such "militia forces" can be wiped out by airstrikes and disruption of their supply lines, can't they? If you want a picture of what a militia force capable of withstanding a large-scale assault by a modern military, well, Hezbollah in southern Lebanon didn't do to badly against the 2006 Israeli incursion - but it was full-on war:

When Israel invaded Lebanon in 2006, it achieved none of its military objectives, took heavy casualties, and left Hezbollah emboldened and admired across the Arab world for forcing an Israeli retreat for a second time in less than a decade. But the Israeli military killed more than 1,000 Lebanese civilians, wounded over 4,400, and displaced around 1 million people in a country with a total population of only 4 million at the time.

Does anyone really want to arm "domestic militias" like that, for some fantasy about "defense of the state?" What it all comes down to is a bunch of idiots with gun fetishes getting drunk and firing off rounds somewhere. Okay, have your fun, whatever - but understand, it's just a total fantasy.
. . . And maybe that's it, maybe America's infatuation with militarism is because the last large-scale conflict on American soil was in the 1860s Civil War, and nobody outside the military has any idea what that really looks like? Imagine a major American city looking like Baghdad in 2005, for example - suddenly, the thrill is gone. Water and electricity shut off, mass chaos, everyone you know running for their lives? A single mortar shell into a crowd of people in a big marketplace can kill and injure as many as the Las Vegas shooting did.

As far as this latest shooting, well, it was from 400 meters away and elevated and into a compressed crowd of people, and the shooter had a large arsenal of semiautomatic rifles, modified for automatic rates of fire, as far as anyone knows now. Could have fired all of them, wait to check the casings. Older white male, fairly wealthy with no criminal record. Could have been the suicidal-homicidal type. Other than banning the ownership of semi-automatic rifles by civilians, which is about as likely as not at all, similar attacks cannot be prevented. As far as overall U.S. gun death rate, that's mostly handguns. Lots of suicides by gun, too. . . Is it the Prozac? The video games? The movies and televison shows? Ease of access to guns and ammo? Roid rage? Poverty? Racial tensions? Something in the water? I hate this debate. . . It's like talking about abortion. Nobody's going to change their mind, that's basically guaranteed.

But it's just another day in Syria, Libya, Yemen. . . Which get much less media coverage.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Oct 2, 2017 6:58:22 PM | 78

@somebody | Oct 2, 2017 6:47:12 PM | 74

"Cultural" meaning tribal. A word Culture belongs to another world not this one. There is no culture in the US, unless you deem Corporate Culture is real Culture. There is even something called corporate art!? US perverted everything including language, so we have "gun culture", what nonsense. By using all this phrases and coined words a process normalization just started. For the ruling class difference between semi-auto and full-auto is obviously very important. Is it important to the victims?

Few months back the ruling US class along with NRA started discussion of legalization of silencers. Explanation: by using silencers a shooter won't damage his or her hearing?! So the victim will die silently.

"Every country has the government it deserves"

Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Oct 2, 2017 7:22:06 PM | 79

"an FBI spokesman at the press conference said that "we have determined no connection with an international terrorist group"" :O

I am shocked.

I am shocked.

Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Oct 2, 2017 7:33:21 PM | 80

@ 78 said:"But it's just another day in Syria, Libya, Yemen. . . Which get much less media coverage."

Yep, and actually,these events get no TRUE coverage by corporate media.

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 7:36:47 PM | 81

According to Nevada State Law, the shooter is a terrorist; but for the Propaganda System and politicos beholden to it, terrorism's been racialized:

"At Vox, Jennifer Williams highlighted just a few of the major attacks that have taken place in the U.S. so far this year, all carried out by white men. 'In the eight months since Trump took office,' she wrote, 'more Americans have been killed in attacks by white American men with no connection to Islam than by Muslim terrorists or foreigners...In fact, between 2001 and 2015, more Americans were killed by homegrown right-wing extremists than by Islamist terrorists, according to a study by New America, a nonpartisan think tank in Washington, D.C.'"

The article from which the above was pulled has more discussion on this topic. If the man had detonated a car bomb, how could anyone avoid naming the act what it was--terrorism. Instead, the man used several firearms in place of a car bomb with very similar results, and all sorts of people are tap dancing around naming him a terrorist and his act terrorism, https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/10/02/when-shooter-white-male-note-critics-label-terrorist-put-hold

In my earlier comment, I proposed the man suffered from anomie--total alienation from general society. Given what little info we have on his background, I stand by my prediction. As with Columbine, no laws would have stopped his actions; only a differently ordered society might have shaped him differently. I find it important that he didn't try to defend himself when the police invaded his lair, choosing to kill himself instead, which he wouldn't have done if his goal was to kill any and everybody. His female companion ought to shed light on this issue.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 2, 2017 7:41:27 PM | 82

"Sheriff says Las Vegas mass shooting suspect killed himself in his hotel room."

"He was killed when officers blasted their way into his hotel room."

So which one is it?

Funny stuff...

Posted by: Chauncey Gardiner | Oct 2, 2017 7:46:52 PM | 83

And the real debate is still not being discussed. Is it constitutional to ban certain types of firearms?

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 7:53:18 PM | 84

Recognizing the importance of an armed populace to prevent government tyranny but also recognizing that dudes have proven themselves out of control I propose the following minor change to the second amendment.
No law shall be enacted to prevent WOMEN from bearing arms.

Posted by: Michael McK | Oct 2, 2017 7:55:37 PM | 85

I always end up more angry than anything else when these sort of post mass mortem post mortems are held. No one ever agrees, everyone just reinforces their pre existing beliefs and the media pretending to act in the interests of 'truth' merely serves as a mass scoreboard. The next fella has to beat 58 to get to the top of the MSM's most hated list.

For me the thing which angers me the most is the wasted opportunity. I feel the same about this as I did when Hunter Thompson blew his head off - that chap coulda wormed his way into a whitehouse prez press conference so why didn't he take shrub with him - he wants to die, fine that's his call but why waste such a golden opportunity.

From Thompson thru all the alleged acts of 'terror' to the most recent example of shootout at the country music corral, one thing sticks out like the balls on a blackfella's dog. That is everyone went for 'soft' easy targets when with just a little more effort they could have shot or blown up the architects and/or enablers of contemporary horror stories. In fact if sufficient thought were put into it I have no doubt that vulnerabilities can be found in any human's security.
If these lazy arseholes even attempted something that visited a bit of payback on the mongers and profiteers I betcha the NY Times, MSNBC & Breitbart would all quit keeping the score.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Oct 2, 2017 7:58:03 PM | 86

"Las Vegas gun laws: Open carry, machine guns legal"

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/las-vegas-gun-laws-open-carry-machine-guns-legal/

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 8:02:10 PM | 87

The USA sheeple don't give a shit when their millitary kills 300 civilians in an airstrike in Syria or Iraq so I don't think they will receive much sympathy when "people like us" get murdered.
The BBC report with a melodramatic reporter voice over was reminiscent of similar reporting from Alleppo or Ukraine. Makes me suspicious of it being a false flag where manipulating public opinion in some way is the point of the exercise.

Posted by: Ike | Oct 2, 2017 8:02:52 PM | 88

@ 86 Did said:"If these lazy arseholes even attempted something that visited a bit of payback on the mongers and profiteers I betcha the NY Times, MSNBC & Breitbart would all quit keeping the score."

Good thought Debs, I've pondered that same thought many times. One guy tried it at a ball game not too long ago in D.C.

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 8:09:16 PM | 89

@ karlof1 82

A terrorist is working towards some kind of political goal; they have an agenda.

This is distinctly different from some guy randomly shooting people due to a deranged mind. That is why it is so important for the politically motivated to leave a manifesto or their passports at the location of these staged events - to insure it is termed 'terrorism'. They want the publicity for their cause.

Bollocks on what Nevada law says - terrorism is politically motivated. That's what makes the US involvement in Syria so ironic...

Posted by: Oilman2 | Oct 2, 2017 8:09:28 PM | 90

Nonsense factory, you have a very good point on the militia law. The law reads that we the people are allowed ARMS of any kind (not "firearms" - meaning hand held weapons - as the "patriotic" organizations love to reduce our defensive weapons to), the idea being that the people would be stronger than the government militarily as a preventive of tyrannical government. Today that would require a tank, a fighter jet or attack helicopter, etc. in your backyard with a boatload of missiles, rockets and other heavy ammo. Ain't gonna happen. The WW2 vets with a foot and half in the grave who holler "Bring it on" while hoisting their thirty-ought-six hunting rifle have apparently never seen the massive, armor plated, bullet proof window, military machines running around the country these days.

The only kind of strength of the people that can overcome tyrannical government today is strength of character, determination, proper morals, faith in God and willingness to die for what is right. These can win over any kind of military but not without a price. This is well understood by the powers that want everything. It is the exact reason that "education" in this nation is now government mandated libertine perversion larded with as much planned ignorance as possible.

Posted by: Tony B. | Oct 2, 2017 8:19:16 PM | 91

Tony B. @91

And yet in Iraq and Afghanistan, US army was beaten or challenged by irregulars with outdated arms. They used IEDs, "terrorist" suicide bombings and more.

It not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 2, 2017 8:30:04 PM | 92

To this veteran's ear, there were two full-auto weapons firing more or less concurrently, each with a distinctive asynchronous burst pattern. Two weapons would be consistent with two broken windows being used as firing ports.

Like so many recent shootings, this one has the vague aroma of a staged event with lots of niggling inconsistencies and questions. I can see this as nothing less than the thin edge of the wedge - the first in a series of horrific escalating events that will be larger, deadlier, and more divisive than anything we can imagine. This is how revolutions and civil wars are started.

Stay well, and stay armed.


Posted by: Ageless Yankee | Oct 2, 2017 8:38:11 PM | 93

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 7:53:18 PM | 84:

And the real debate is still not being discussed. Is it constitutional to ban certain types of firearms?
You've gone from an anti-gun interpretation of the Second Amendment to a fall-back that you frame as "the real debate".

LOL

Actually, this is all BS 'cause the "real debate" should be about the corruption of democracy with the rise of Empire-loving globalist neolib & MIC bloodsuckers.

How to correct this is not even debatable: What's required is returning to progressive taxation (no loopholes).

Our resident Psychohistorian will explain further.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Oct 2, 2017 8:47:24 PM | 94


coming from the yom kippur into the sukkot i believe we all need to come together in peace against the arab muslims.
a can tell you at this time the gunfire was almost certainly coming from the concert speaker system.this is in no way an antisemetic statement as i am jewish originally.
i believe the speakers where not jewish either but marshall and the sound cones made by celestion corps of the city of london england.
as of this moment gene rosen's movements on the night of the lonewolf multi pull it fire, fire cracker events is not known.
gene rosen is jewish but is not wanted for this rather odd event.
30 mins too find the perps room 12 thousand cctv cameras in the hotel retired navy seals providing hotel security

if you want to understand timelines and cut edit hotel real time events check out this mossad hit

camera angle galore

when was the last time you saw such coverage in any usa,uk belgium or frenchie event?


Mossad Murder in Dubai - Complete Timeline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8ajRErIOsc

Posted by: daniel golani | Oct 2, 2017 8:49:22 PM | 95

Sigh.. And to think I hoped we’d see less of this since Trump took power on his Drain the Swamp promises. Well, looks like the covert black ops are still going strong.. Fritz Springmeier anyone?

Posted by: Lozion | Oct 2, 2017 9:12:00 PM | 96

No mention in the media of "terrorism", of course. Had this guy been even nominally Muslim the shit would be hitting the fan and the "Islamic terror" branch of the MSM (Coulter et al.) would be screeching and frothing about "Muslim terror" again.

These shootings come and go but the reasons why certain Americans (mostly, but not exclusively, the pale-skinned "Christian" variety) feel the need to regularly blow away their fellow citizens is never discussed in depth. Probably because shootings of this kind are largely an American phenomenon and any discussion about the whys would have to include societal factors, and that is a no-no. In the US of A society has no effect on an individual's behavior of course...that sort of thing only happens in socialist or communist countries like, say, Canada. lol

Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Oct 2, 2017 9:17:05 PM | 97

Ghostship @ 27, C'mon Man. It's dark out. There are ALREADY armed security guards at all concerts. You don't need 911 to tell you where the sound and the gunflashes are coming from. You've been hired to keep the people safe. You return suppressing fire. That is, IF there had been an actual shooter instead of the usual pretend shooting.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 2, 2017 9:25:38 PM | 98

This is a tragedy. I'll pray for the innocents. But we don't know the full facts yet .... and we probably won't .... thanks to an completely outlaw political machine. This terrible event is just as likely a false flag as some lone nutcase. I expected a more objective article from moonofalabama.

Lets look at this in context. We have a political machine 20 trillion in debt. The pentagon has disappeared 21 trillion since 1998 -- the same year they quit performing "mandatory" audits. Washington false-flagged us on 9/11. Our political machine then installed a man with false identity documents into the presidency. The next president was elected to drain the swamp -- and he promptly drowned in the swamp. Swamp-monster Sessions refuses to prosecute the Clintons or the Obamas. The only accurate description of this political machine is complete and utter FRAUD.

I am far more fearful of this "government" than any nutcase that may be roaming free. Resist any calls for gun control as your life, and your loved ones, will be in the balance.


Posted by: EricP | Oct 2, 2017 9:29:43 PM | 99

@ 94 Bullshit! What do you not get about "well regulated"? That position doesn't mean anti-gun. What the fuck are you smoking? I want some!:)..

"Actually, this is all BS 'cause the "real debate" should be about the corruption of democracy with the rise of Empire-loving globalist neolib & MIC bloodsuckers."

Now that, I can agree with, but since the topic here isn't about that issue, it's another discussion.

Posted by: ben | Oct 2, 2017 9:39:32 PM | 100

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