Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 22, 2017

Open Thread 2017-35

News & views ...

Posted by b on September 22, 2017 at 11:27 AM | Permalink


well, we certainly are living in interesting times. Who did we piss off?

Posted by: mischi | Sep 22, 2017 11:45:47 AM | 1

Israel bombed Damascus this morning. What about these vaunted Russian SS-4's?

Posted by: mischi | Sep 22, 2017 11:49:07 AM | 2

mischi @2--

The problem is the Zionists "toss" their bombs from outside Syria's border and thus "hide" from Syria's air defenses--every incident a War Crime as it's Aggressive War.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22, 2017 11:56:50 AM | 3

Yeah, karlof1...fired over the Golan and guided to target...International Law? 'We don't need no stinking international law'

Posted by: str8arrow62 | Sep 22, 2017 11:59:08 AM | 4

rogue states...

Posted by: james | Sep 22, 2017 12:07:50 PM | 5

Syria destroyed an Israeli drone shortly before the Israeli missile attack.
Who is guiding the missile to its target? A U.S. "eye-in-the-sky" plane?

Posted by: kgw | Sep 22, 2017 12:15:15 PM | 6

As Avi Shlaim insists in the Iron Wall, Israel has been doing this kind of aggressive, completely unjustified raid ever since 1949, a few months after the end of the 1948 war. At first it wasn't looked on that well. There was a large party who actually wanted to make peace with the Arabs. So the militarists, like Dayan, had to do the raids in secret, without telling the government. But slowly Ben Gurion was won over, and he ended up a complete supporter of militarism.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 22, 2017 12:20:22 PM | 7

Interesting times indeed. Reality is too gruesome to take in.

Posted by: Alexander Grimsmo | Sep 22, 2017 12:33:26 PM | 8

US anxiety about Chavez's moves towards a multipolar world

Posted by: nmb | Sep 22, 2017 12:37:02 PM | 9

Looks like my weekend reading will begin early as Sputnik's headline reminding people that the criminal organization known as the CIA just had its 70th anniversary is now heading an interview article between Lars Schall and Douglas Valentine: "The CIA: 70 Years of Organized Crime," which was published by CounterPunch,

Valentine wrote The CIA as Organized Crime: How Illegal Operations Corrupt America and the World; and if this interview serves as an appetizer, the book ought to be a very filling main course. Based on what I've read so far, the entire Jason Bourne movie series is far more nonfiction than fiction. Excerpt:

"The CIA’s executive management staff compartments the various divisions and branches so that individual CIA officers can remain detached. Highly indoctrinated, they blindly obey on a “need to know” basis. This institutionalized system of self-imposed ignorance and self-deceit sustains, in their warped minds, the illusion of American righteousness, upon which their motivation to commit all manner of crimes in the name of national security depends. That and the fact that most are sociopaths."

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 22, 2017 2:09:45 PM | 10

Karlof1, the LSD experiments known as MK Ultra conducted in Montreal were supposed to erase a person's personality so that a new one could be constructed, like in the Jason Bourne movies. I doubt that the CIA stopped once the Ultra experiments did. They were a total failure as the person became mentally incapacitated, but that has never stopped the CIA before.

Posted by: mischi | Sep 22, 2017 2:19:38 PM | 11

mischi #2

Israel bombed Damascus this morning. What about these vaunted Russian SS-4's

The problem with those ss-400s is that they have trouble discriminating between Israeli war planes and commercial air traffic. Especially if those war planes are in Israeli territory when they fired those missiles into Syria and not that far from Ben Gurian airport. These missiles are extremely dangerous. Recall when Ukraine accidentally shot down Siberian Airlines flight 1812 over the black sea with an ss-200 -- before impact the missile drifted 200 km off course. Russia will not the risk of accidentally hitting some domestic flight. Specially after the negative flack the Soviets took when they shot down Korean airlines flight 007 in 1983.

We should keep in mind that the Israeli air force is hiding behind civilian airliners when they carry out these attacks.

Posted by: ToivoS | Sep 22, 2017 2:41:38 PM | 12

Groan the italics were meant for the quote from Mischi -- must remember to preview

Posted by: ToivoS | Sep 22, 2017 2:43:37 PM | 13

re 12

SS-400s can hit missiles fired from over Lebanon, can they? I thought they were anti-plane missiles, not anti-missile missiles.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 22, 2017 3:08:56 PM | 14

A conversation on LSD - MK Ultra Reunion Party

Scroll down to the video - they are all there including Timothy Leary

Those LSD experiments were used on society - to incapacitate a generation.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 22, 2017 3:13:12 PM | 15

I don't know that the Israeli attack on Damascus airport will have had that much effect. The Syrians will have learnt by now from Hizbullah the importance of dispersing weapon stores, even if not putting them underground. The attack was more an expression of anger after an Israeli drone was knocked down.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 22, 2017 3:22:15 PM | 16

Clinton supporter mark zuckerberg have apparently joined the anti-russian neocon crowd:

Marc Zuckerberg Vows Fight Against Pro-Russia Thought Crime

Trump to Zuck: You're Just Part of the Fake News Russiagate 'Hoax'

Posted by: Anon | Sep 22, 2017 3:34:12 PM | 17

@ #11 - mishi

Just as creepy as MK Ultra, at least to me, is Poindexter's dream of total information awareness. After William Safire exposed their plans to build a database on 300 million Americans, congress "refused to fund it." All congress really did was to transfer the budget for it to hidden elements in the Defense dept. It's still alive today.

Both programs continue unabated by an arrogant government that knows no bounds to their abusive behavior, even to their own citizens, who pay their very paychecks and for their filthy projects.

Posted by: JSonofa | Sep 22, 2017 3:53:57 PM | 19

What Trump could have said at the United Nations:

The two most pressing problems humanity faces are climate change and population explosion, especially in Africa. Animal populations and vegetation are being decimated and condemned to extinction as humans fight over that last ivory horn, to survive the day. Bees are fighting to pollinate. The hurricanes have always been there but now they are more frequent and severe. But a greedy, incorrigibly egotistical mindset has taken us over. Me, me, me and then selfie me. They feed us with the right economically and politically and then the left socially. Hedge funds are cool and so are Trannies. The empire has tried to confuse us and has been very successful.

Posted by: Lochearn | Sep 22, 2017 4:06:09 PM | 20

Israel bombed Damascus this morning. What about these vaunted Russian SS-4's?

Even if Israel is firing (or dropping glide based) bombs over Lebanon, I've wondered why we haven't heard about any cases where the Pantsir destroyed the bombs before they hit the target. "The probability of hitting a target for 1 rocket is not less than 0.7 with a reaction time of 4–6 seconds"

Since the Pantsir is part of an integrated firing system, it should be able to start trying to track the missile once the fighter is spotted on RADAR. If the Israelis are flying low then swooping up to altitude, it should be fairly easy for them to distinguish it from a commercial aircraft. I would also think that there are Pantsir's around Damascus. Please note, I'm talking about hitting the bomb or bombs, not the aircraft. The F15-18's have a glide type of bomb that is dropped at altitude and then uses fins to drive it horizontally to the target. The point is that it is a gravity bomb that needs altitude. I didn't see any specs on the F15-18 carrying a cruise missile type of weapon.

BTW I'm not a military guy, just a SW engineer, I'm curious about these type of things.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Sep 22, 2017 4:15:03 PM | 21

Sheepdog or not, this is the best politician in the U$A today, besides E. Warren.

Just IMO of course..

Posted by: ben | Sep 22, 2017 4:27:38 PM | 22

Israel is beginning to run out of options as a product of aggressivity. Syria is reassembling itself.

They're more interested now, I would think, in getting independence for Kurdistan. All those Kurdish Jews will be able to recover their houses in Erbil, if nothing else. According to what I've heard in the past, Baghdad would be willing to cede sovereignty over KRG. That would be reasonable. But the Kurds want much more, all the territory of north Iraq they're currently occupying. Including many potential oil-fields. That is unlikely to be ceded by Baghdad.

The Shi'te militias (and army) are quite ready to bash on to the north, if I understand correctly, in order to reunite Iraq. They're very sectarian, and don't think about the dangers. Nor are they interested in what the Sunnis want. I saw all this in my visit to Iraq in the spring.(I should put a photographic record of my tour on-line. it's very interesting.)

I should think that the US will demand stasis. No Iraqi advance, but no Kurdish annexation.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 22, 2017 4:43:46 PM | 23


I agree with you on the politician.

In this speech he threatens Putin with regime change and argues for fighting for freedom in the world.

I don't see the difference to neoconservative propaganda, do you?

You can take this speech as basis and vote for interventions in Iran, Syria, North Korea, China .... all these people are not "free" and don't live in US style democracies.

I think the sheep dog thing silly, as Bernie has opened the 'Overton window' on socialism, health care, Palestine quite a lot. But this speech is in line with US liberal foreign policy establishment. Samantha Power could agree on it.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 22, 2017 5:18:27 PM | 24

If they learn that star wars is a recognized religion in some countries the artist might lose his head

Posted by: Mina | Sep 22, 2017 5:39:52 PM | 25

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and World Mercury Project Issue Report Regarding New Evidence of Ongoing Corruption and Scientific Misconduct at CDC

[.]Among other information, Kennedy has found additional evidence of criminal activity by the CDC consultant, Poul Thorsen, the author and principal coordinator of multiple CDC studies exonerating the mercury-based preservative thimerosal in the development of autism.[.]

The new evidence, recently uncovered World Mercury Project, shows that Thorsen and his collaborators did not obtain permission from an Institutional Review Board (IRB) to conduct their research, which was published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2002 and Pediatrics in 2003.

In 2011, The Department of Justice indicted Thorsen on 22 counts of wire fraud and money laundering for stealing over $1 million in CDC grant money earmarked for autism research. The product of Thorsen’s work for CDC was a series of fraud-tainted articles on Danish autism rates that, today, form the backbone of the popular orthodoxy that vaccines don’t cause autism.[.]

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Chairman, stated, “World Mercury Project calls upon Attorney General, Jeff Sessions, to extradite Thorsen back to the U.S. to face prosecution. We also call upon Secretary of Health and Human Services, Dr. Tom Price, to retract the Thorsen-affiliated autism research papers that are the fruit of illegally conducted research.”

Posted by: likklemore | Sep 22, 2017 5:42:45 PM | 26


Must be true as Rohrabacher is lobbying for Catalonia :-))

Posted by: somebody | Sep 22, 2017 6:05:39 PM | 28

A related follow up from Zerohedge.
Secret meeting of Russia with USA.
Any SDF fire on Syrians or Russians will be met with return.

Posted by: Emily | Sep 22, 2017 6:30:23 PM | 29

If you want to see what textbook propaganda looks like, the NYTimes has pulled this one out of its rear end today:
. . . /2017/09/22/world/middleeast/kurds-independence-israel.html
It has all the elements - distorted history, bogus think tank experts, emotional language - all about promoting the use of Kurds as some kind of wedge to prevent Iranian-Syrian economic cooperation (not that that agenda is even mentioned).

Here's a taste:
"The story goes that Israeli soldiers and Mossad agents wept when the shah of Iran double-crossed the Kurds by signing the Algiers Accord with Iraq, a 1975 resolution of border disputes that ended the Kurdish rebellion and forced the pesh merga to retreat into Iran."

Oh, they wept! Really. . .Where do they find these writers? They quote some discredited think tank fellow, Ken Pollack, who hyped up the Iraqi WMD threat all around Washington in 2002-2003, as well. What kind of brain-dead zombie actually believes this stuff? It's as bad as Tass or Pravda under Brezhnev in the old Soviet Union.

Posted by: nonsense factory | Sep 22, 2017 6:46:01 PM | 30

Laguerre | 16:

I didn't say nor imply that the ss400s were antimissile weapons. If they were used they would have to shoot down the jet firing those missiles. That is why, I would suspect, the Russians would not do so because of danger to commercial airplanes.

Posted by: ToivoS | Sep 22, 2017 6:52:29 PM | 31


The MK Ultra stuff was much more far reaching than LSD and presumably it was not stopped. The number of scientists and cultural heros involved in it knowingly or not is mind boggling.

The documents obtained through the FOIA reveal a clear and sinister trajectory. That anthropologic science that was developed to enslave Russia’s Asiatic tribes by bringing about a Native Revival was used against the American people. Bateson brought his science with him when he helped developed the MK Ultra program which then created the counter culture based upon the elements that the Russians had used to enslave the Asiatic tribes – the Shaman, psychedelic drugs, ‘trance music’ and dance were combined with the archaic appearances of the music idols to convey the message that the feudal past was where a young person should head — rather than a future with the technology and thinking power that might threaten the oligarchs.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 22, 2017 8:29:39 PM | 32

@ 24

I would agree, Sanders has his warts, but, I believe he can be reasonable with regards to his dealings with Putin and Russia, Iran, Syria and the rest of the world.

We'll never know.

Posted by: ben | Sep 22, 2017 9:47:08 PM | 33

P.S.-- If you listen to his speech, think you'll agree Samantha Powers would not concur with Sanders point of view.

Posted by: ben | Sep 22, 2017 10:01:54 PM | 34

-The US continues to be "involved" in Syria:

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 23, 2017 3:36:55 AM | 35


Actually I read it.

He says this

Foreign policy is about whether we continue to champion the values of freedom, democracy and justice, values which have been a beacon of hope for people throughout the world, or whether we support undemocratic, repressive regimes, which torture, jail and deny basic rights to their citizens.

Samantha Powers says the same - and - out of power - now includes Saudi Arabia.

This here is from Bernie Sanders web page

America must defend freedom at home and abroad, but we must seek diplomatic solutions before resorting to military action. While force must always be an option, war must be a last resort, not the first option. ... I supported the use of force to stop the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. And, in the wake of the attacks on September 11, 2001, I supported the use of force in Afghanistan to hunt down the terrorists who attacked us.

Samantha Powers would call it "human rights" but that is just a different emphasis. She definitively would agree with Bernie Sanders vote for the Yugoslav War - that was not supported by Russia and China in the UN security council. And where the ethnic cleansing was sparked by Germany's promises for independent states based on pre Yugoslav nationality and EU membership.

This here from Bernie Sanders foreign policy speech basically calls for regime change in Russia - not only Samantha Power could agree but Victoria Nuland, too

Today I say to Mr. Putin: we will not allow you to undermine American democracy or democracies around the world. In fact, our goal is to not only strengthen American democracy, but to work in solidarity with supporters of democracy around the globe, including in Russia. In the struggle of democracy versus authoritarianism, we intend to win.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 23, 2017 6:32:41 AM | 36

add to 36
Sanders now has effectively replaced the fight against communism with the fight against authoritarianism.

There is a whole list of authoritarian regimes the US could pick a fight with.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 23, 2017 7:26:55 AM | 37

Greece Could Leave The EU: Why The Grexit Option Deserves Consideration

With the Greek psyche itself the victim of a relentless shaming campaign, the idea of Greece “going it alone” begins to seem outlandish and quixotic. It is not. But it is as much tied to a revival of spirit and self-esteem as to the nuts and bolts of economic transformation.


Posted by: greydogg | Sep 23, 2017 7:57:32 AM | 38

re 38

There's always some who want to leave the EU. There wasn't much new in the article. Why didn't Greece leave at the time of the crisis? That would have made sense. Use Greek people's savings to finance the losses caused by governmental folly. However they quailed then at the thought of ruining the finances of the population, and there's less sense now.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 23, 2017 8:15:10 AM | 39


Yep. There is lobbying in the US for Grexit. It is not Greece that is doing it.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 23, 2017 8:31:18 AM | 40

add - what these rumours intend to do

Bailout negotiations between Athens and its creditors have stalled. The possibility of Grexit, or euro exit, has re-emerged and bond yields have soared. The yield on two-year Greek government bonds has risen from 6% to 10% in less than two weeks as spooked investors have dumped their holdings. And the shrill rhetoric last seen at the height of the crisis in 2015 has returned.

Greece has no intention to leave the EU but some people have profited - hugely - on the rumours that they might.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 23, 2017 8:39:03 AM | 41

Sanders: "Today I say to Mr. Putin: we will not allow you to undermine American democracy or democracies around the world."
I don't know how Vlad can resist a comeback on that statement, perhaps recalling the hatchet job on Sanders himself by the (UN-)DEMOCRATIC National Committee and its media lackeys. So Sanders should not be taken seriously.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Sep 23, 2017 9:41:46 AM | 42


I think it is very much Democratic Party foreign policy doctrine designed to attract young idealists and constitute 'soft power'.

People tend to opt for authoritarianism or dictatorship as preferable to civil war and ethnic tension. To change them you have to remove threat and tension.

Donald Trump has announced to support the nationalist Eastern European authoritarian regimes eg Poland and Hungary in the Three Seas Initiative, plus nationalism in Ukraine.

Poland’s current political elite is advancing the idea of Intermarium, a Polish-dominated confederation that would include the Baltic States, Ukraine, and possibly also the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, and Slovenia. It is supposed to serve “as a ‘cordon sanitaire’ against Russia and a counterweight to the power of Germany and the European Union.”

Eastern European borders aren't drawn nationally each country has considerable minorities in other countries.

Both agendas are de facto destabilization campaigns.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 23, 2017 10:27:51 AM | 43

@43 somebody

I'm sorry, but your post is full of it. Nowhere in any of your links is the term "nationalism" so we can assume that this is your biased use of the term serving an agenda that you have made very well clear.

If anything, your first link describes an initiative that, at best, serves to create an eastern-NATO-styled arrangement to block Russia. HARDLY NATIONALIST! What else needs to be said about that? It is part and parcel of the empire's plan of blocking Russia on it's mission to promote sovereignty among nations.

Secondly, your final link has to do with establishing a "mono-ethnic" prison in Ukraine which is historically home to a vast amount of Russian speakers. Once again, this is hardly a nationalist agenda being pushed but rather just another NAZI ploy which will no doubt peter out once they realize that the EU and NATO will not be saving their bacon when the time comes.

So somebody, please, get the idea that nazism = nationalism out of your head. It is obfuscating and doesn't add to the discussion.

I will add that the US has had moments of racists taking the stage, front-and-center, usually pushed to the front of the line by the MSM. Us Americans might even know a few who have revealed their ignorance when they say stuff like, "Go back to Mexico!" or "Speak American!"

Well, I will have you know that these are the outliers and even in the panned Alt-Right, I have never heard anything even closely resembling this clap trap. Indeed, how many times have I seen youtube videos of encounters with minority conservatives being called an Uncle Tom for discussing immigration law enforcement?

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 23, 2017 11:11:10 AM | 44

b, mutes to Germany election. I'm sure many like me keen to know his analysis whether Merkel will retain her Chancellorship. RT live will be covering Germany's election. Unlike Amerika only one party win. Germany voting system is complex more or less no single party can rule without collation with one or more parties. Interestingly there are some Germans’ strategic voting to ouster Merkel. I happen to know and spoke to many Germans during my stint in ship repairing, oil, gas and industrial power generation business. My kid was in Bavaria for a month sent by her employer to trained new employees there. I had never been to Germany and dunno how they feel about Putin and the world we live in today.

As for Sanders, analyzing and studies his comments on various matters he's still a NeoLiberal and cannot be trusted. He campaigns for and supported Hillary and the Democrats party. He's the lesser evil - and still evils especially on regime changes, endless wars and genocides of Palestinians and their right to return before 1947 in Palestine.

Posted by: OJS | Sep 23, 2017 11:22:44 AM | 45

I'm confused Spain, Spain’s plan to send boatloads of military police to Catalonia to prevent its independence referendum has backfired with dockers in two ports staging a boycott and a third refusing access. Unlike Russia Federation's Putin the barbaric dictator (sarcasm) even allow every Crimea to vote with his legally "green man" stationed there. More than 93% of Crimea votes to secede from Ukraine

Posted by: OJS | Sep 23, 2017 11:47:39 AM | 46

I don't say nationalism is fascism. I say nationalism is a recipe for going to war as is internationalist interventionism: economic wars, small wars, covert wars, civil wars. You can support the independence of Kurdistan because you believe in nationalism or you can intervene against Iran, Syria or Turkey as they are authoritarian.

Merkel will remain chancellor as no coalition without her is feasible and her party will be the strongest by far even if they lose a lot of votes.
If surveys are correct the general political atmosphere will have switched to economic neoliberalism even if the only feasible coalition is by Merkel with Social Democrats.

The only issue interesting to see tomorrow evening is how many people will be motivated to go to vote by the far right - for or against.

Anti EU, anti immigration policies do not have a chance, as Germany's economy is in dire need of foreign workers. But the votes for AFD have already caused a change, as the EU and immigration now have to be re-discussed.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 23, 2017 11:48:31 AM | 47

RT is covering the German elections in English - it is fun :-))

Posted by: somebody | Sep 23, 2017 12:16:27 PM | 48

@47 somebody

IMHO, I still don't think you get it. Kurdistan is a unique case, and while I historically feel bad for the homeless Kurds, there are indeed other ethnic minorities who have found a way to coexist in nation-states. Setting up a homogenous Kurdistan is akin to Ukraine wanting to expel all its Russian-speakers, not the least because these actions seem both to represent the will of the empire. You can't just set up a nation-state wherever you want. That is not Nationalism or condoning Nationalism. That is the fascistic empire enforcing its "final solution" on what it perceives to be its problem.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 23, 2017 12:23:59 PM | 49


You are just pointing fingers. Support for Sanders is support for the globalist cabal that is 'empire-first'. Neoliberalism is just a different form of authoritarianism that replaces a dictator with a monied elite.

Trump is the Republican Obama. Trump's attempt to co-opt the meaning of "sovereignty" is exactly the kind of thing that Obama did/would do. US politics is farce.

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

There is HARD authoritarianism (Nazi, Zionist, Wahabbi) in front-line states of the Empire and SOFT authoritarianism (neolib bloodsuckers) in other areas.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 23, 2017 12:41:53 PM | 50

49 You are free to define words for yourself.

There are hardly any states in the world that can be called nation states - as in homogenous cultural entities. Definitively the US are not a nation state. Nor are Russia - even as shrunk as now - nor China.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 23, 2017 1:01:53 PM | 51

I know the Open Thread is already becoming long and B has another post following it but I guess, better late than never: UK journalist Graham Phillips is writing a series of posts on the killing of children in the Donbass region of eastern Ukraine by Ukrainian military forces. If anyone is interesting in reading these posts - the first came out 22 September 2017 - here is the link:

GP would like more people to spread the news about the series as well.

I've posted the link over at Mark Chapman's Kremlin Stooge blog but those of you who have been reading it lately will know the comments forums there are being flooded with propaganda by a troll who I believe has an agenda to target this (that is, KS) and other blogs with lies, put-downs and slander against commenters. The aim is not just to flood the blog to disrupt conversations and to distract people's attention and waste their time in putting out the fires the troll creates but also to drive lurkers away (I think the blog has lost a few) with constant garbage.

I suppose the silver lining in this particular cloud is that the more the troll keeps posting - and the posting is becoming ever more desperate and shrill - the more the usual KS commenter crowd can see he is an agent working for others. I am starting to think he has Ukrainian connections.

Posted by: Jen | Sep 23, 2017 5:00:07 PM | 52

NemesisCalling @ 49:

The objective behind US support for an independent Kurdistan is to slice and dice groups into ever smaller units on the basis of religion, ethnicity or any other convenient criterion that can be used to divide people and keep their numbers small and weak. A nation of competing small groups obsessed with their identities and keeping them "pure" and "homogeneous" cannot mount very effective opposition to invasion and infiltration.

"Nationalism", however it's defined - and the term has probably by now become meaningless, being steeped in faux Nazi stereotypes as promoted by Western media - may be nothing than a convenient excuse to support some groups (like Kurds) but not others.

I cannot see how an independent Kurdistan can survive if it's surrounded by hostile states, has no coastline and is mostly mountainous. It'll end up like a second Afghanistan or Kosovo, dependent on foreign aid organisations, a giant US military base or trafficking in drugs, weapons and sex slaves - and maybe that's the intention.

Posted by: Jen | Sep 23, 2017 5:23:20 PM | 53


You are right, jen. I agree completely and you'll have to forgive if my posts weren't clear enough to yield your clarity. The Kurd situation seems as simple as you say. It is an unreasonable request of the Kurds to seek a nation-state right over the top of Syrian and Iraqi soil. They are better off joining the victors peacefully and bettering their lot through reasonable requests.

US nationalism means nothing more than pulling back from NATO and disengaging our military occupying the four corners of the world. It would be an amazing sight to see as an American. For 3/4 of my life, we have been the bully. Forgot what it feels like to root for my country.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Sep 23, 2017 6:51:38 PM | 54

nmb has a total lack of respect and courtesy for Moon of Alabama readers. He still is dumping his links in here. Your behaviour is extremely ill-mannered nmb and I hope no one clicks on your links.

B, it's up to you to run the bar as you see fit but I'd suggest just deleting comments with URL shorteners if you wish to curb this behaviour.

Posted by: Uncoy | Sep 23, 2017 6:58:01 PM | 55

The Kurdish situation is difficult and complicated. One wants to respect the right of people to self determination but it is clear that Kurdish independence will be employed to further destabilize the region and, most likely, to cause additional blood shed. It won't be so much of a Kurdish state as it will be a US/Israeli satellite that is there to create trouble. In other words the Kurds will trade rule from Baghdad, Damascus, Tehran and Istanbul for rule from Tel Aviv and Washington DC.

Its also not entirely clear that the population of these various Kurdish regions agree with independence. Rather it appears that the quest for independence is pursued by a minority which is being bolstered by a super power and a settler state (Israel). And what about the people living in those "kurdish" regions who are not kurds?

I'm not so sure the Kurds are better off being used (and abused) by Israel and the US and pushed into armed conflict with Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey. It would seem the type of deal that the Basque region has with Spain (lots of autonomy but they are still part of Spain) would be a better deal for them.

Saddam and the Turks have been unkind to the Kurds but have the Syrians, Iraqi Shia, and Iranians really treated them so poorly?

Posted by: Alaric | Sep 23, 2017 11:44:57 PM | 56


Posted by: Alaric | Sep 24, 2017 9:03:57 AM | 57

Mind control through sound:

Posted by: JSonofa | Sep 24, 2017 11:06:15 AM | 58


Interesting evidence. v

So that was Sept 8 to 12. Today 24.09.2017 on Southfront



Posted by: @Madderhatter67 | Sep 24, 2017 11:07:58 AM | 59

So here is a link from ZH about the latest move from Russia to out the dishonorable US

Russia Releases Photos Showing US Special Ops At ISIS Positions In Syria

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 24, 2017 10:45:41 PM | 60

interesting developments..

Iraqi Government Asks Kurdistan Regional Government To Hand Over Border Crossings And Airports

Abadi also stated that the oil in the Kurdistan Region belongs to all Iraqi people and not just individuals or political parties. Furthermore, Abadi criticized the Kurdistan Region for a lack of integrity regarding the oil income.

“Kirkuk’s oil does not belong to individuals or parties, why has the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) not paid people’s salaries … Over 900,000 barrels of oil are sold everyday by the KRG, the Kurdish people must ask where this money is going if not to them,” Said Abadi.

Meanwhile, Kurdistan Region president Masoud Barzani said at a press conference that the “partnership with Iraq is over”. Yet again Barzani confirmed that the Kurdistan Region independence referendum will be held as planned.

Barzani said again that the Kurdistan Region will agree to a post-referendum negotiation with the Iraqi Federal Governed. Barzani attacked the Iraqi government in the same time and said that “it was Baghdad that had declined to accept us [Iraqi Kurds]”.

In a related development, Iran announced that it halted flights to and from the KRG-held regions in northern Iraq on Sunday in what appears to be a first reaction to the retaliation to the upcoming Kurdistan Region independence referendum.

Posted by: james | Sep 24, 2017 11:57:46 PM | 61

Below is a link from China news and is followed by a quote that I thought important.

Chinese envoy says situation in Syria headed for political settlement

"The independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Syria must be respected and protected," Xie said.
Xie Xiaoyan is China's Special Envoy for Syria and made this comment on Sunday, Sept. 24

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 25, 2017 2:32:49 AM | 62

- Congress approved not only the $ 56 billion increase of the US military budget but it approved an ANNUAL increase of $ 80 billion of the defense budget. If that increase remains in place then that would double US "defense" spending in the next 8 (???) years. OMG & Ouch.

- "Rebuilding the US military" ??????? Since early 2000 the defense budget increased from about $ 350 billion to $ 700 billion now. "Rebuilding the US military"" ??? "REBUILDING" ????

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 25, 2017 10:29:15 AM | 63

@63 willy... rebuild and rebuild again, lol.... there is nothing one can't do with the de facto world currency us$, up and until the us$ is no longer the de facto world currency..

Posted by: james | Sep 25, 2017 1:04:53 PM | 64

- Stephen Kinzer: "America’s slow-motion military coup"

You don't say !!!!!!

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 25, 2017 2:38:49 PM | 65

@James (#64): The surprising thing is that a significant part of that military spending is paid for by the foreigners (for the time being).

I write "For the time being" because one should keep an eye on what happens with the US Current Account Deficit (CAD), the US trade deficit (TD) and the US budget deficit (BD). When (Not "If") both the CAD & TD shrink and the BD keeps growing then foreigners are no longer ABLE to subsidize the US.

When (!!!) the CAD & TD shrinks down to zero and perhaps turn into Surplusses then the (financial) "chickens are coming home to roost" for the US.
When the CAD turns into a Surplus then foreigners will be FORCED to sell US T-bonds.

- Aother problem is that by increasing its "military footprint" in the rest of the world, the rest of the world is actually FORCED to subsidize the US even more.
- Are there no detrimental effects for us US citizens ? Yes, there are. All this US military spending abroad the US dollar weakens against other currencies (e.g. the EURO) and a weaker US dollar causes to increase US price inflation. In other words, it's we US citizens are paying the price for all those US foreign military "adventures" AS WELL.

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 25, 2017 3:02:59 PM | 66

thanks willy... i see the whole world financial structure as a giant ponzi scheme that ain't working.. i am not sure how or when it comes down, but i think it has to.. you are following it more closely in a certain area, than i have.. thanks for the info here..

on another note, i am presently reading charles eisensteins book 'sacred economics'... some like you or psycho historian might enjoy reading it!

Posted by: james | Sep 25, 2017 3:16:06 PM | 67

From the way it is described in news reports, it seems that the B1b bomber flights may have been to the Northern limit line.

North Korea claims its national airspace as more than 50 miles off its coast, while the US recognizes only the international norm of 12 nautical miles. It is not clear how close Saturday’s flight came to the North Korean coast.


This is a disputed maritime demarcation line. Northern Limit Line.
Sorry for the length of the post, but I want to quote some relevant parts in case it vanishes:

The 1953 Armistice Agreement, which was signed by both North Korea and the United Nations Command (UNC),[6] ended the Korean War and specified that the five islands including Yeonpyeong Island and Baengnyeong Island would remain under the control of the UNC and South Korea. However, they did not agree on a maritime demarcation line, primarily because the UNC wanted to base it on 3 nautical miles (5.6 km) of territorial waters, while North Korea wanted to use 12 nautical miles (22 km).[3]

In August 1953, shortly after the entry into force of the armistice agreement, the South Korean Syngman Rhee Provisional government, which opposed the armistice agreement, attempted to attack the DPRK on the west coast, ignoring the agreement. Accordingly, the United Nations Command has set up the "Northern Limit Line" of the West Sea so that the ROK Armed Forces can not attack Hwanghae Island, and this is the starting point of the Northern Limit Line .[7] [8]

After the United Nations Command and North Korea failed to reach an agreement, it is widely believed that the line was set by the UNC as a practical operational control measure a month after the armistice was signed, on August 30, 1953.[3][9] However original documentation recording this has not been found.[10] The line was originally drawn to prevent South Korean incursions into the north that threatened the armistice. However, its role has since been transformed to prevent North Korean ships heading south.[4]

A 1974 Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) research report investigating the origins of the NLL and its significance, declassified in 2000, found that the NLL was established in an order made on 14 January 1965 from the U.S. Commander Naval Forces, Korea. An antecedent line, under a different name, had been established in 1961 by the same commander. No documentation about the line earlier than 1960 could be located by the CIA, casting doubt on the belief that the NLL was created immediately after the armistice. The sole purpose of the NLL in this original order was to forbid UNC vessels from sailing north of it without special permission. The report noted, however, that in at least two places the NLL crosses into waters presumed to be under uncontested North Korean sovereignty. No evidence was found that North Korea had recognised the NLL.[10][11]

While the NLL was drawn up at a time when a territorial waters limit of 3 nautical miles (5.6 km) was the norm, by the 1970s a limit of 12 nautical miles (22 km) had become internationally accepted, and the enforcement of the NLL prevented North Korea, in areas, from accessing significant territorial waters (arguably actual or prospective).[4] In 1973, North Korea began disputing the NLL.[1] Later, after the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, the NLL also prevented North Korea from establishing an effective Exclusive Economic Zone to control fishing in the area.[4][12]

United Nations Command's position
The UNC emphasized its position on the border issue on 23 August 1999, stating that the NLL issue was non-negotiable, because the demarcation line had been recognized as the de facto maritime border for long years by both Koreas.[3]

However, in a 1973 U.S. diplomatic cable, now declassified, noted that UNC protested North Korean intrusions within 3 nautical miles (5.6 km) of UNC controlled islands as armistice agreement violations, but did not protest NLL intrusions as the NLL was not mentioned in the armistice agreement. South Korea wished to describe all NLL penetrations as "military provocations", but the U.S. saw that as a major problem for the U.S. position on the armistice agreement.[20][21] In 1975 the UNC position was that North Korean fishing or patrolling south of the NLL, outside 3 nautical miles (5.6 km) of the UNC controlled islands, was not justification for any coercive actions by UNC controlled vessels; the UNC would not participate in establishing an exclusive South Korean fishing zone.[22]

North Korea's position
When the 1953 Armistice was concluded between the U.N. and North Korea, agreement over a maritime extension of the demilitarized zone was not achieved. In 1955, DPRK proclaimed territorial waters extending 12 nautical miles (22 km). from the coastline.[26] Other than this, North Korea did not explicitly dispute or actively violate the NLL until 1973. First, the North Korean negotiators at the 346th meeting of the Military Armistice Commission challenged the status of the line.[1] North Korea followed this up by sending large groups of patrol ships over the NLL on about 43 occasions in October and November.[27][28] North Korea states that it had not been informed of the existence of the line,[15][29] which is now confirmed by declassified U.S. diplomatic cables,[13][14] so it could not dispute it earlier.

North Korea's official state news agency KCNA described the line as the "final line for stopping the defectors to the north" drawn to meet "Washington's self-justified interests."[29]

On 1 August 1977, North Korea established an Exclusive Economic Zone of up to 200 nautical miles (370 km).[30] It also attempted to establish a 50 nautical miles (93 km) military boundary zone around the islands claimed by South Korea along the NLL; however, this claim was rebuffed.[31][32]

South Korea's position

The South Korean position from the 1970s has been:[27]

The NLL is an indispensable measure to administer the Armistice Agreement;
The NLL is in the approximate mid-position between the islands and the North Korean mainland;
North Korea acquiesced to the NLL until 1973, so implicitly recognized the NLL.
In 2002 the Ministry of National Defense published a paper reasserting the legitimacy of the NLL, and arguing that North Korea's claims regarding NLL were groundless.[15] The paper concluded that:

The NLL has been the practical sea demarcation line for the past 49 years and was confirmed and validated by the 1992 South-North Basic Agreement;
Until a new sea nonaggression demarcation line is established, the NLL will be resolutely maintained like the ground Military Demarcation Line, and decisive responses will be made to all North Korean intrusions;

United States' position

In February 1975, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger wrote in a confidential cable, now declassified, that the "Northern Patrol Limit Line does not have international legal status ... Insofar as it purports unilaterally to divide international waters, it is clearly contrary to international law and USG Law of the Sea position."[13][40] Earlier in 1973 a "Joint State-Defense Message" to the U.S. Embassy in Seoul stated that South Korea "is wrong in assuming we will join in attempts to impose NLL",[13] and the U.S. Ambassador told the South Korean government that the 12-mile (19 km) North Korean territorial sea claim created a zone of uncertain status with respect to the NLL.[41]

In November 2010, following the North Korean Shelling of Yeonpyeong, President Barack Obama said the U.S. stood "shoulder to shoulder" with South Korea and condemned the attack, but did not specifically address the NLL.[13]

This seems to be the area into which those bombers flew. It is also interesting that the newspaper article is coy about how far the bombers advanced. Did they cross into territory that the NK consider North Korean? That would seem especially provocative if true.

Posted by: Poster formerly known as oneoffposter | Sep 25, 2017 7:14:33 PM | 68

- Former CIA officer Philip Giraldi was fired by the American Conservative magazine because he dared to state/write the Obvious. I.e. that Israel is driving US foreign policies/policy.

This is the article that was the reason why Giraldi was fired:

Posted by: Willy2 | Sep 29, 2017 4:48:13 PM | 69

The Conquest of Bacon by Peter Kropotkin

Until you're 65, you bring home the bacon!

You are, as they say, l'homme de la maison!

After 65, SS brings home the bacon, not you.

You have become, shall we say, un petite main.

You have to walk the dog and take out the trash.

If you drop dead, SS still brings home the bacon!

Poor dog had to be put down. No more cooking!

Gramma eats out every day with her single friends.

The minute The Old Girl slips up, your kids slam her

into a nursing home. Now SS brings them the bacon!

But when Gramma kicks, sadly, there is no more bacon!

Ce n'est pas possible! Incredible! Comment se peut-il?

The ((hey no cussing!)) have stolen le bacon!!

Complètement disparu! La, la, la, la.

And that's the story of the conquest of bacon!

If you enjoyed this story, my work is done here!!


Posted by: Chipnik | Oct 1, 2017 2:49:17 AM | 70

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