Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 13, 2017

Charlottesville: What You Wish Upon Others, You Wish Upon Yourself

U.S. "liberals" cuddle fascists and right-wing religious extremists in Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Venezuela and elsewhere.

But when similar movements appear on their own streets they are outraged.

The person in the center on the above picture drove his car into a crowd of counter-protesters in Charlottesville killing one and wounding several.

Politicians and media hail such persons when they appear, often hired by the CIA, to overthrow the government of some foreign country. They condemn the same mindset and actions at home. But glorification of right-wing violence elsewhere hands justification to right-wing groups at home.


Above: Fascist torch march in Kiev January 28 2017. Then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Republican Senator McCain, The New York Times, the Washington Post and many "liberals" supported the above nazis.


Above: Fascist torch march in Charlottesville, August 11 2017. Former presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, Republican Senator McCain, the New York Times, the Washington Post and many "liberals" condemned the above nazis.

You can not have only one of these. 

To claim, as "liberals" do now, that such marches as in Charlottesville, "is not what and who we are", is a lie. Ask people from outside the U.S. how the empire appears and acts towards them.

The U.S. uses fascism, religious extremism, torture, targeted killing and many other vile instruments of power in its quest for global dominance. All of these methods and ideologies, all of them, will one day come home.

Posted by b on August 13, 2017 at 02:02 PM | Permalink

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Phil Ochs had liberal hypocrits right:

Sweating in the ghetto with the coloreds and the poor
The rats have joined the babies who are sleeping on the floor
Now wouldn't it be a riot if they really blew their tops
But they've got too much already and besides we've got the cops.

Posted by: Robert McMaster | Aug 13, 2017 2:32:09 PM | 2

I'm not sure there is an international dimension to the Charlotteville protest b.

Certainly using vehicles to ram into crowds is becoming all too popular but I see the Charlotteville protests as a purely domestic US issue based on misguided patriotism, racism, anti-liberalism etc.

Posted by: dh | Aug 13, 2017 2:34:07 PM | 3

thanks b... i share your view that the folks supportive of overthrowing leaders in faraway countries ( mccain,clinton and countless others soros etc. etc), knowingly support fascists and worse - 'moderate' rebels as they were called in syria, or the freaks in the ukraine, but they would be uncomfortable with this..

@3 dh.. i agree it is a domestic us issue, but i think b is right to draw some parallels in it all, however off center it is.. i will be curious to hear how others chime in on this..

Posted by: james | Aug 13, 2017 2:46:07 PM | 4

US Has Budgeted $49M for Venezuelan Right-Wing Since 2009

"...The 2009 budget reiterated support and continued funding for the Organization of American States in order to deploy teams of “democracy practitioners” to Venezuela and Bolivia where they say “democracy is threatened by the growing presence of alternate concepts such as 'participatory democracy'."

Well, at least the US isn't funding Nazis - they're 'democracy practitioners', for cryin' out loud. Who else is going to defend Venezuela against the insidious, subversive participatory democracy? That stuff is dangerous!


Venezuela Govt Accuses US of Bankrolling Right-Wing Violence

"U.S. financing and logistical support for violent groups in Venezuela have facilitated an armed sedition," Caracas said.

Armed sedition? Thank God I live in the US where that kind of dangerous nonsense is illegal.


The Violent Past Of Leopoldo Lopez, Poster Boy For The Venezuelan Opposition

"...According to a 2009 U.S. diplomatic cable, Mary Ponte of the Primero Justicia party that López co-founded stated that “For the opposition parties, Lopez draws ire second only to Chavez. The only difference between the two is that López is a lot better looking.” In the same cable, U.S. State Department officials referred to López as a “divisive figure within the opposition […] often described as arrogant, vindictive, and power-hungry – but party officials also concede his enduring popularity, charisma and talent as an organizer.”

So... the CIA's boy is basically a rich, corrupt, right-wing Venezuelan Hillary Clinton. Except better looking. Thanks for both of those 'winners', US State Department!


Posted by: PavewayIV | Aug 13, 2017 2:47:07 PM | 5

reading it again, especially b's last line - i agree with that..

Posted by: james | Aug 13, 2017 2:47:45 PM | 6

KARMA

Posted by: Bruce Ballai | Aug 13, 2017 2:55:39 PM | 7

The corrupt MSM is intentionally sowing the divisiveness, hatred and dischord. All to hang onto their ill-gotten gains aquired via their globalist puppet masters. More and more people are waking up to this fact. Whether one is left or right or in the center off the aisle, it matters not to the corrupt Deep State controlled mainstream media. All that matters to them is cretaing the smokescreen of what is really taking place and protecting their cashcow. People of both sides of the political aisle need to resist this divisiveness and come together. More proof that they openly lie to the public is here: #WhitehelmetsEXP Intertwined — The White Helmets and FSA Terrorist Groups — Evidence of Collusion -Part 1 https://clarityofsignal.com/2017/08/13/intertwined-the-white-helmets-and-fsa-terrorist-groups-evidence-of-collusion-part-1/

Posted by: Liam | Aug 13, 2017 3:02:49 PM | 8

@6 Methods and ideologies sure....but the Charlotteville event itself has more to do with the American Civil War than anything. You can throw white supremacy, anti-semetism, gun control, and homophobia into the mix.

Posted by: dh | Aug 13, 2017 3:09:25 PM | 9

@dh

b is pointing out the hypocrisy. The connection is indirect.

b forgot to add militarized police. That is a also a legacy of overseas conflicts that USG was involved in or supports. Police got surplus military equipment and training in Israeli-style policing of discontented populations.

The logic is horrifying: a police state is necessary because of terrorism, which comes mostly from ME extremists, which USA+allies heavily supported as a means of regime change in Libya and Syria.

Large immigrant populations are also a pretext for a police state. But the West can't deny immigrants or denounce allies that are police states because they buy lots of weapons and the West is or is headed toward becoming police states also.

Added to this toxic social brew is record inequality and anti-democratic laws ...

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13, 2017 3:10:01 PM | 10

they did it wrong.

they did it wrong on purpose.

they did it wrong on purpose to unite the right.

they did it wrong on purpose to unite the right ant it sure worked out alright.

the ruling political class in virginia is racist as fuck. dont let anyone tell you otherwise. it is a lost fight.

Posted by: anonymous | Aug 13, 2017 3:12:14 PM | 11

... record inequality and anti-democratic laws ...

Essentially a permanent aristocracy. A group which is determined to hold on to power forever. Making a banana republic and police state all but inevitable.

Terrorism and immigration are excuses and a means of directing anger away from this aristocracy.

We are coming to resemble the societies that we have historically despised.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13, 2017 3:20:22 PM | 12


Amen!

Posted by: OJS | Aug 13, 2017 3:21:36 PM | 13

9 Donald Trump now has come down on the side of "we are all Americans" on his twitter account - as he should.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 13, 2017 3:25:30 PM | 14

@10 The logical outcome would suggest that at some point the militarized police will have to confront heavily armed people like the Charlotteville demonstrators. Sounds like Ruby Ridge or Waco again.

Posted by: dh | Aug 13, 2017 3:25:37 PM | 15

I agree, B, but... by now there is a very intense critique against Tronald evolving which, although being fully justified, is increasing the danger Tronald could resort to war in order to mute it. I am very preocupied.

Posted by: Pnyx | Aug 13, 2017 3:28:43 PM | 16

Liam @8--

Yep, the media's been part of the problem for decades. The author of the linked article goes back to the Kerner Report as an example of how this problems been allowed to fester--deliberately, IMO. With his message, b's quite correct. Many report about how those militarized police and state troopers just stood by as the Nazis attacked counter-demonstrators. It was a 20-year-old kid driving the killer car--just where he got the money to afford such a machine ought to be questioned.

The only beautiful things within the United States is its landscape. The term Ugly American was already well worn when it finally made its way into print. Always for A Few Dollars More.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 13, 2017 3:33:54 PM | 17

15 Charlotteville's counterprotesters were incredibly brave.

They basically won.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 13, 2017 3:38:11 PM | 19

@somebody:

They basically won.

You are very mistaken. Everybody lost.

The alt-right had obtained a legal permit to march/protest. AFAICT they were denied this right of peaceful assembly. This fact will spur MORE action by the alt-right.

And, some shithead took it upon himself to drive into the opposing crowd that (illegally) marched afterwards, killing someone and seriously injuring many more.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13, 2017 3:47:55 PM | 20

i absolutely agree.

Posted by: annie | Aug 13, 2017 3:51:14 PM | 21

Here's one tiny suggestion of where this thing could go and grow...

"You lay down with Russian dogs, you wake up with Nazi fleas..."

https://twitter.com/TeaPainUSA/status/896376435258134528

Posted by: John Gilberts | Aug 13, 2017 4:05:18 PM | 22

Is anyone under the impression that these events are tearing at the souls of John McCain or Hillary? My sense is that they really don't care when these things happen. If anything they see an opportunity to rally their voting base or force Trump to either own this fringe group or alienate the large but loosely associated marginalized underclass of whites. My thought is that domestic terrorism or culture wars are only a concern insomuch as they threaten the legitimacy of the government resting on its ability to protect the citizenry.

Posted by: IhaveLittleToAdd | Aug 13, 2017 4:07:07 PM | 23

The so-called counter-protestors, Black Lives Splatter and AuntieFay, were bussed (without a permit) in with their hoodie/backpack/facemask uniforms and their usual back of tricks: weaponized flagpoles, pepper spray, projectiles, and clubs. They drew first blood months ago when they attacked Trump supporters with their chickenshit hit and run and swarming tactics and rioted against any conservative's free speech rights. The alt-right will end it, though, because they don't hit like little girls. Stock up popcorn, kids. This shit is gonna get good.

Posted by: Shane | Aug 13, 2017 4:07:23 PM | 24

Consider how the MIC state and compartments of the deep state have practiced "strategy of tension", its legacy COINTELPRO, even infiltration of street protest,--provocateurs and other dirty tricks,-- whose ultimate design is chaos. The benefit the state reaps is the concentration of power into its own hands. It grows by stimulation of spectacle, the poisonous atmosphere of hate, raw fear, and animosity between groups. What the empire practices in foreign lands it inevitably brings back home.

The legacy which this methodology of violence and suspicion has created, should not surprise us when it reaches our streets, and takes on a life of its own.

Posted by: Copeland | Aug 13, 2017 4:08:15 PM | 25

i appreciate b's attempts to gather the pieces of the puzzle but if the pieces were never in the box, you are out of luck.

all they want to do is pit people against each other so they are able to rule without oppositions from neither side. the right against the left, the democrats against the republicans. the syrians against syrians/AQ 1/2/3. shiites against the sunnis, ukrainians against the russians, warlords against the talibans, communists against capitalists, etc................next up, internationally, would be kurds against turkey, should turkey leader decide to grow closer to russia. but all of these are small pictures which is the narrative they are selling you. there are many sect within even shiites and sunnis.......


i for one like to focus on the solution not focus on the people.

USA needs to avoid the knee jerk reaction and to seriously evaluate what emotions they are going through because without some maturity in handling emotions, the person will always ask the wrong question. either they/you are with us or against us...... .what they don't tell you is who is this US? it's definitely not hte citizens. putin not going all in and crushing ukraine is maturity in seeing an ambush. but let's not dwell on the people but the issue.

how many people really care about some fringe minority issues, like gender in the fkn bathroom? there are less than 1% transgendered anyways but the 100% debt of USA covers all its citizens. that alone *debt* has killed more people than any car can kill.... including all drunks.......think of the last three decades when someone said debt doesn't matter.......

Posted by: jason | Aug 13, 2017 4:08:57 PM | 26

The sad fact is that we are all being played by the oligarchs.

They are happy to see people line-up behind what ever social movement they feel affinity for fight and fight others who do the same.

As people exhaust their time and money in such futile efforts, they get more desperate and less able to fight against the system that pits them against other desperate people.

We are forgetting the lesson of Greece. The 'radical socialists' could not save Greece and Tsipras eventually caved. Nationalism is the only force that the permanent neoliberal aristocracy (aka "globalists") fear. It is on the rise now because it is almost too late for nationalists to do anything about it.

IMO alt-right should be more inclusive: more nativist / less racist. Being associated with hate groups only turns off many who might join their anti-globalist movement.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13, 2017 4:11:21 PM | 27

Another term for "globalist" might be "pro-Empire".

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13, 2017 4:17:17 PM | 28

Excellent analysis MOON of the nauseating hypocrisy of the deep state. Another example of WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND

Posted by: andoheb | Aug 13, 2017 4:18:07 PM | 29

Posted by: dh | Aug 13, 2017 2:34:07 PM | 3

Of course there is no international dimension to these protests. What is meant is that, you can't encourage Neo-Nazis in Ukraine and not expect the ones you have at home not to feel emboldened when they understand the anti-Nazi rhetoric at home is just hot air.

They have their own forums, like Stromfront. They go on to the Internet. They know about the McCain and Nuland's Ukie Neo-Nazis and they think « good. These US government f...ckers are not anti-Nazi nor anti-Semitic or anti-racist. They are just liars. » So they go ahead. It was bound to happen.

Encouraging the Ukie Neo-Nazis was playing with fire from day one.

Posted by: Lea | Aug 13, 2017 4:35:24 PM | 30

I have yet to see a presstitute newspaper, site or channel declare the white suprmacist car attack as a terrorist attack. If the driver would have been a muslim all major presstitutes would be in overdrive declaring it a terrorist attack.

The US also used fascism (KKK), religious extremism (again KKK), torture (solitary confinement, rape, tazering, ...), targeted killing (MLK, Malcolm X, and so many others) and many other vile instruments of power domestically in the 60ies and 70ies COINTELPRO being the most famous example.

Posted by: xor | Aug 13, 2017 4:57:05 PM | 31

Divide and conquer applies just as much to the US and American people as it does elsewhere. It's just applied differently. Sometimes it's abrupt like a video story ran repeatedly like Rodney King or more recently Michael Brown. No context just inflammatory event reporting. In more subtle efforts, Obama spoke at graduation ceremonies telling them they will experience racism. Obama refused to identify as half-white on The View and claimed he identified with US blacks. People here in the US are being played. Is this the majority of the people? No. But cities like this are not where you would want to be when SHTF.

Posted by: Curtis | Aug 13, 2017 4:57:08 PM | 32

20

The alt-right had obtained a legal permit to march/protest. AFAICT they were denied this right of peaceful assembly. This fact will spur MORE action by the alt-right.

You sure they had a legal permit for a militia march with assault rifles. Or a torch march across campus?

I am not sure this was alt-right by the way. Or does alt-right mean re-fighting the civil war?

These marches are done for propaganda and intimidation. There is no propaganda value in the media images they got, and counter protesters were not intimidated. Counter protesters looked like college kids by the way.

I don't think "the united right" will try anything like this again, nor do I think they will remain united after this.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 13, 2017 5:02:24 PM | 33

Hillary Clinton was not Secretary of State on Jan 28 2017.

Posted by: peter | Aug 13, 2017 5:08:07 PM | 34

Lea @30--

The Outlaw US Empire's been "encouraging" Nazis and other adherents of the losing side in WW2 since 1945. In early 1944, the NY Times commissioned Vice President Henry Wallace to write an item about American Fascism. Wallace was enthused and ran the idea by his chief, FDR, who approved and apparently had no objections to its content. It was published on 9 April 1944 and certainly created a stir: "The Danger of American Fascism," http://newdeal.feri.org/wallace/haw23.htm

Unfortunately, Wallace was more correct than he knew as his essay was his undoing politically as those very same forces he outlined conspired to oust him from government to our great detriment. The individuals forming those forces formed the core of the emerging Deep State; and with Truman as their dupe, they gained control of the Executive via 1947's National Security Act. The Rabid Anti-Communism of the Fascists led them to ally with groups like the KKK, John Birch, and other like-minded hate groups, which were aided and abetted by FBI, CIA, Media, etc., when they all should've been arrested out of existence.

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 13, 2017 5:09:55 PM | 35

Thanks for calling fascists 'fascists', instead of shamefully hiding it behind confusing terms like 'alt-right'.

Not sure if it's possible to directly trace domestic fascism to groomed fascism abroad. Probably not, but that's not the main point imo - it's certainly worthwhile pointing out the parallels.

Their role and purpose is the same everywhere: Offer a 'public enemy' to both their followers and their opponents, to divert attention from the social divide.

Posted by: smuks | Aug 13, 2017 5:14:06 PM | 36

xor @31--

One of FAIR's reporters was quick to denounce the media framing of the event, https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/08/13/media-driving-crowd-protesters-clash

Charlottesville's mayor, however, said this: "Speaking with NBC’s Meet the Press on Sunday morning, Signer said that the attack, in which a car plowed through a crowd of counter-protesters to the far-right rally, was 'a clear terrorist attack with a car used as a weapon.'" [Emphasis mine] https://www.rt.com/usa/399475-charlottesville-mayor-car-terrorist/

Posted by: karlof1 | Aug 13, 2017 5:21:21 PM | 37

@somebody 33

"These marches are done for propaganda and intimidation. There is no propaganda value in the media images they got, and counter protesters were not intimidated. Counter protesters looked like college kids by the way.

I don't think "the united right" will try anything like this again, nor do I think they will remain united after this."

Sounds a bit too optimistic to me. Seeing that the extreme right have their own media and narrative, they can very well turn this into an 'iconic moment' in retrospect, nevermind the facts. Those counter protesters present were probably not intimidated, but what about others who might have joined, if not this time then the next?

I agree this was done for propaganda purposes, but whether or not it's a success only time will tell. nb, the MSM can help in 'building a legend' if they keep referring to the incident as a chiffre.

Posted by: smuks | Aug 13, 2017 5:26:52 PM | 38

Somebody @33

You sure they had a legal permit for a militia march with assault rifles?
Wikipedia: open carry - including assault rifles and shotguns - is allowed in Charlottesville, VA (located in Albermarle County)..
[In Virginia] Open carry is generally allowed without a permit for people 18 years of age and older. The following cities and counties have exceptions that disallow the open carry of "assault weapons" (any firearm that is equipped with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or is designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock) or shotguns equipped with a magazine that holds more than 7 rounds: the Cities of Alexandria, Chesapeake, Fairfax, Falls Church, Newport News, Norfolk, Richmond, and Virginia Beach and in the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Henrico, Loudoun, and Prince William. These restrictions do not apply to valid concealed carry permit holders. Stated differently, you may open carry an assault weapon/shotgun with more than 7 rounds with a permit in the aforementioned locations, but do not need a permit to do so in any other locality in Virginia.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13, 2017 5:31:43 PM | 39

@karlof 35

Thanks for pointing this out.
Actually the similarity between the Nazi era anti-communism and the post-war Western anti-communism is quite revealing imo. Ideologically, these two 'opponents' had more in common than we care to admit.

In their early days, the Nazis pretended to be 'anti-establishment' and called themselves 'socialists', but this pretence was quickly dropped in favour of rabid racism and, later, anti-communism.

Posted by: smuks | Aug 13, 2017 5:43:47 PM | 40

b: ...former presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, Republican Senator McCain, the New York Times, the Washington Post and many "liberals" condemned the above nazis.

Who of the above are "liberals"?

No hypocrisy. Same old game: Divide and conquer.

Red against Blue. Getting the proles to fighting over wedge issues -- symbols: Confederate flags and statues. Stir things up, create the chaos conducive to looting and a fascist take over.

Shed some crocodile tears and make statements condemning evil.

No hypocrisy at all.

For the most part I agree with dh.

In Charlottesville most of wingers really mean what they say: They just want to fly their Confederate flags, have statues of Confederate leaders in parks, and maybe even an occasional Ten Commandments chiseled on public buildings. They are extremely local (limited) in their world view.

So I think it's wrong to believe the U.S. agents who encourage extremist groups and color revolutions in other countries are appalled at demonstrations like this in the U.S. No matter what their public statements claim, they are all for chaos and violence anywhere.

b: All of these methods and ideologies, all of them, will one day come home.

They've never left. They've alway been the American way.

Posted by: Ken Nari | Aug 13, 2017 5:46:26 PM | 41

Curtis @ 32 -- Sorry to more or less repeat what you already said.

Somehow I missed your comment.

Posted by: Ken Nari | Aug 13, 2017 5:50:13 PM | 42

In the US of late, no one needs to be hired by the CIA. The youth are all brain damaged and ill from getting 25 vaccines before they turn 2. This young man has the hollow look of autism, looks just like my Aspie nephew. The difference is, my nephew's obsessions were carefully monitored and helicoptered by his parents, and he had a thorough, repetitive education on basic morality. He was privileged enough to attend college and now works as a security guard at an retirement community. Not everyone is this lucky. Some turn to the internet for guidance and friendship, and align with the first idiot they meet.

I wouldn't be surprised if we find out at a later date that this internet brat-nazi pack he was involved in; "Vanguard", is either an FBI op or has been infiltrated by them. Low hanging fruit in order to get our civil war on so no one in the continental US will care much about WW3 starting.

Posted by: sejomoje | Aug 13, 2017 5:54:38 PM | 43

@3 dh ....."but I see the Charlotteville protests as a purely domestic US issue based on misguided patriotism, racism, anti-liberalism etc"

Sure, but think of it this way: a purely-American fascist sees how well that fascist coup went down in the Ukraine - thanks to no small part to unswerving US support - and he thinks to himself "Hey, I should own a piece of that action".

His "issues" can be purely domestic-based (as, indeed, were those of the Ukrainian Nazis).

But his inspiration is drawn from what he sees happening elsewhere i.e. all those places where the fascists..... won.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Aug 13, 2017 6:09:52 PM | 44

>>>> John Gilberts | Aug 13, 2017 4:05:18 PM | 22

"You lay down with Russian dogs, you wake up with Nazi fleas..."

TeaPainUSA is just repeating the Washington "liberal" narrative. It's not Putin who has a problem with Nazis, it's Poroshenko. So that should read:

"You lay down with Ukrainian dogs, you wake up with Nazi fleas..."

Posted by: Ghostship | Aug 13, 2017 6:31:30 PM | 45

Reactions to growing Anti-White violence ongoing were bound to happen when the tipping point was reached. Like Palestinians in Palestine, whites are in the way of what is most coveted in the West. In the way of the NWO Mafia Movement.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/08/13/dont-know-happened-charlottesville-view-unlikely-hear-media/

Posted by: I.W. | Aug 13, 2017 6:41:35 PM | 46

@33 Virginia is an open carry state. Tiki torches are quite an aesthetic image. The Ukrainians did it during Maiden for instance. Anybody in America are free to do their own tiki torch rally as far as I know..

Why don't you research before posting your opinions?

Posted by: aaaa | Aug 13, 2017 6:42:02 PM | 47

This is clearly another false flag. Ex-military right winger chosen and recruited to attend rally/protest. Perhaps a remote control device installed if he wasnt up to it himself. . Media tipped off to collect video evidence to make a good show.

The motive of course is to fuel divisions betwen right and left, colored and white. Divide and Rule. God only knows what would happen if people acoross all spectrums figured it out and united against the evil controllers. That cant be permitted. Much better if they direct their energies against each other. Sad.

Posted by: Pft | Aug 13, 2017 6:42:45 PM | 48

@20 let's wait for the facts to come in on that hit and run. He may have been chased by antifas into that one-way street and panicked. He was an edgy 20 year old, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he intentionally rammed the crowd

Posted by: aaaa | Aug 13, 2017 6:43:41 PM | 49

>>>> karlof1 | Aug 13, 2017 3:35:23 PM | 18

Sorry, here's the link, https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/08/13/charlottesville-was-not-protest-turned-violent-it-was-planned-race-riot

Yeah, planned by the counter-protesters.

Posted by: Ghostship | Aug 13, 2017 6:46:25 PM | 50

41) There are lots of connections of the US far right to Eastern Europe.
This here is one of them. David Duke has a doctorate from Ukrainian MAUP.

But maybe the Alt-Right is another Russian project :-))
This here is Alexander Dugin and Richard Spencer.

And maybe MAUP featuring David Duke
is a Russian project, too.

So it could be blow back but not the way b. assumes. The US/Canada (re)exporting Nazis to Eastern Europe, and Russia supporting Nazis in the US.

Russia does have a strategy to support the populist right in Europe.

Like in this EU conference.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 13, 2017 6:50:41 PM | 51

>>>> karlof1 | Aug 13, 2017 5:21:21 PM | 37

One of FAIR's reporters was quick to denounce the media framing of the event, https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/08/13/media-driving-crowd-protesters-clash

Charlottesville's mayor, however, said this: "Speaking with NBC’s Meet the Press on Sunday morning, Signer said that the attack, in which a car plowed through a crowd of counter-protesters to the far-right rally, was 'a clear terrorist attack with a car used as a weapon.'" [Emphasis mine] https://www.rt.com/usa/399475-charlottesville-mayor-car-terrorist/

Nah, it was a protest/counter-protest that turned violent. If the car had ploughed into ordinary citizens going about their daily business then it would have been terrorism, but it didn't so it ain't.

Posted by: Ghostship | Aug 13, 2017 6:55:31 PM | 52

Posted by: aaaa | Aug 13, 2017 6:42:02 PM | 47

Sure, those images suggest fascism and civil war. They failed.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 13, 2017 7:06:17 PM | 53

back in 2016
'Under pressure from the Pentagon, Congress has stripped the spending bill of an amendment that prevented funds from falling into the hands of Ukrainian neo-fascist groups.'
https://www.thenation.com/article/congress-has-removed-a-ban-on-funding-neo-nazis-from-its-year-end-spending-bill/

Posted by: brian | Aug 13, 2017 7:08:34 PM | 54

This by the way is the permit they had:

Charlottesville says permit for Unite the Right will be approved only if rally is moved to McIntire Park

That is not the Campus.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 13, 2017 7:10:38 PM | 55

add to 55
The ACLU helped them to get the permit they wanted for Emancipation park. But that still is not the university campus.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 13, 2017 7:16:40 PM | 56

Somebody

If you listened to the videos linked @46, it is clear that Unite the Right marchers contacted the University and cleared the march with them. They also requested University police as security because they had learned that Antifa/BLM protests might show up. But University police didn't show or were late and as a result fighting occurred.

The march was live-streamed and several reporters accompanied the marchers. The University denounced the violence that occurred on campus but didn't say that the march was illegal or that they were planning to sue any individual or organization that participated. See news reports Yahoo and Vibe and Heavy.

= = =

aaaa @47 has already asked you: Why don't you research before posting your opinions?

It seems that you're not really interested in understanding. You just want to stir the pot.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13, 2017 8:04:49 PM | 57

Not many on the left can actually define what fascism is... it might surprise them to find out it is exactly what they stand for.

Posted by: insanity | Aug 13, 2017 8:05:30 PM | 58

Early definitions of fascism differ from recent ones. The CIA didn't like the real definition.

Sure, you still have rampant nationalism, militarism. But of what value are these to the core of fascism? Nothing but tools of enforcement.

What matters about fascism is collusion between the state and big business. That is key. That is removed from most definitions.

The US is a fascist nation with massive collusion btw government and big business.

Posted by: fast freddy | Aug 13, 2017 8:15:20 PM | 59

I've not been here long enough to know your heart, b.

I'm glad that I stayed long enough to see this post. Nice to know you and you could not be more right.

The alphabet agencies lean to the right but will use movements on both sides, actors on both sides to gain info, to slant a story, to plant seeds of destruction and yes, seeds of hate. They foment violence in hidden ways to achieve their hidden agendas and they have been doing so since WWII.

Thank you again for having the bravery to stand up to the liars and those who seek to destroy American society and those around the world.

All Hail the Age of Robots. May their slaves obey their master.

Posted by: JSonofa | Aug 13, 2017 8:27:46 PM | 60

57
It is absolutely unlikely that the university allowed this march.

At least it seems news to Charlotteville's mayor:

In a Facebook post, Charlottesville’s mayor, Mike Signer, called it a “cowardly parade of hatred, bigotry, racism, and intolerance.” “I am beyond disgusted by this unsanctioned and despicable display of visual intimidation on a college campus,” he added.

I know, the "United Right" now claim that they were completely lawful, that they were attacked by left wing protesters, and denied the right to free speech.

But there are videos like this - and more will come out. They intended to terrorize.

There is no right to free hate speech, and no freedom for the Ku Klux Klan. Yep, the alt-right now claim that "it is only ideas". These ideas kill.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 13, 2017 8:32:50 PM | 61

FYI

Trump owns a winery and vineyard in Charlottesville, VA.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13, 2017 8:35:13 PM | 62

Somebody: absolutely unlikely

LOL. Wrong again.

Message from UVA President Sullivan

The University of Virginia is a public institution and as such must abide by state and federal laws regarding the public’s right to access open spaces. While University policy speaks to the ability to reserve space inside University-owned facilities, permits or registration to access public and open outdoor spaces are not required. University policy also does not generally prohibit open flames in outdoor spaces.

The march on campus was perfectly legal.

The University denounced the violence that occurred. Like the press, they did so in a way that suggest that the violence was instigated by the "alt-Right" marchers. But why would the "alt-Right" marchers commit violence knowing that it would be blamed on them?

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 13, 2017 8:50:25 PM | 63

@5 paveway... this is the kind of info that gets missing from a wide discussion in the usa.. instead the discussion is about the corrupt or worse venezuelan leadership etc. etc... look over here, while we do some magic trick over here to sparkle instant democracy ferry dust on it all! the msm at this point is nothing more then a servant for the evil empire... sad.. i wish the cia would do it on their own country!

@9 dh.. yes it is about different things - american civil war is a big part of it, but what about the level of dissatisfaction brewing in the usa at this point? there are plenty of triggers for a deep ground level dis-satisfaction with the status quo - plutocracy, and etc. etc..

jackrabbit.. i agree with a lot of things you say..

@24 shane.. are you suggesting civil war in the usa based off racial issues?

@26 jason.. looks like that to me too. thanks.

@30 lea... fully agree.

@31 xor... agree with you as well.

@51 somebody.. interesting.. thanks for that..

@59 fast freddy.. thanks.. i agree and am re- quoting you "What matters about fascism is collusion between the state and big business. That is key. That is removed from most definitions. The US is a fascist nation with massive collusion btw government and big business."

Posted by: james | Aug 13, 2017 9:21:36 PM | 64

Chiming in to reiterate the common misconception here in the states that fascism is about race or nationalism, but is instead a collusion between state and big business.

Posted by: Haasaan | Aug 13, 2017 9:44:16 PM | 65

@64 The KKK has come back periodically in a new reincarnation since 1860. That kind of thinking is always there. I think what we're seeing now is a real hatred for liberal ideas coupled with fear especially among white males that they are becoming irrelevant. The Robert E. Lee statue is a flashpoint because of the history involved. Having Trump as president has emboldened some but I imagine it would be even worse under Hillary. She epitomizes everything these guys hate.

Posted by: dh | Aug 13, 2017 9:52:38 PM | 66

@66 uhh, there's a lot more to it than just the feeling of irrelevance. Just watch Colin Flaherty youtube videos. I double-dog dare you to

Posted by: aaaa | Aug 13, 2017 10:03:33 PM | 67

@66 everything these guys hate....that includes Jews, blacks, Wall Street, Hollywood and the media. They probably don't know what plutocracy means.

Posted by: dh | Aug 13, 2017 10:06:22 PM | 68

Benito Mussolini in 1926 first coined the phrase LO STATO CORPORATO the corporate state. The fusing of state and corporate capitalism which is the prime philosophy and modus operandi of fascism. See the anglo-zionist with their hollywoodian propagandist outlet has painted fascism with a false caricature with brown shirts and storm troopers . Hence Gramsci tried to warn us during the march on Rome during the bienio rosso the red years 2 years of rolling stikes in Italy known historically as the Red years. Viola western society is all but democratic . Since the mid 70's their has been a full push to total financialisation and privatization of all aspects of western economies. The commons no longer exist . Welcome to post modern fascism . Austerity for the sheeple and Champagne and carviar for the 0.1 percent. Largest wage disparity since the Gilded age . The hypocrisy of western exceptionalism is showing it's true colors.

Posted by: falcemartello | Aug 13, 2017 10:12:23 PM | 69

@67 Yes I'm sure there is a lot more to it than my brief synopsis would suggest. I don't have time to watch a lot of Colin Flaherty's videos. Could you perhaps sum up for me in a paragraph or two what he stands for?

Posted by: dh | Aug 13, 2017 10:13:00 PM | 70

I really enjoy the site, but I think this is a little early for mischaracterization.
The Alt-Right had a permit and were peaceably protesting when the NAZI's and KKK showed up.
It was a setup from the getgo. Even the police were ordered to stand down. Had they done their job, likely no one would have been killed.
JMO...

Posted by: Ken | Aug 13, 2017 10:19:43 PM | 71

...
The U.S. uses fascism, religious extremism, torture, targeted killing and many other vile instruments of power in its quest for global dominance. All of these methods and ideologies, all of them, will one day come home.
Posted by b on August 13, 2017 at 02:02 PM

I've seen several video interviews with Syria's President Assad on SBS Oz, ABC Oz, and YouTube. In most, if not all of them, he has consistently stated that Syria knows who the "rebels" are, what they're doing, and who is supporting them. He then warns that the West has foolishly created something that can't be controlled and the "rebels" and their mindset will eventually become a problem in the West.
I used to hope that he was wrong but for all his perceived shortcomings, it would seem that Assad's prognosis was just Something Else he was right, and The West's vampires were wrong, about.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Aug 13, 2017 10:23:47 PM | 72

@70 a daily, multi-episode chronical of black violence, city degredation, etc, along with the continued mental gymnastics that local and mass-market media and politicians utilize to ignore, condone and excuse it

Posted by: aaaa | Aug 13, 2017 10:24:08 PM | 73

@73 Thanks. It seems insoluble. I suppose the media and politicians ignore it in the hope that it will just go away.

Posted by: dh | Aug 13, 2017 10:36:25 PM | 74

If truly, one reaps what one sows; we're going to reap a bounty beyond all measure...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 13, 2017 11:17:42 PM | 75

ot - elijah j.m. has a new article up aug 11th - what has the us got out of the war in syria?

Posted by: james | Aug 13, 2017 11:37:08 PM | 76

How did my long lost Venezuela post come back from the dead @5 on this thread?
Weird... It's gotta be the eclipse. And aliens.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Aug 13, 2017 11:45:39 PM | 77

With all due respect, I do not get the impression that anyone here has any clue as to the real nature of these (several) groups that were involved in the Charlottesville events yesterday. I have (surprisingly to me) considerable experience dealing with these groups, so I think I can tell you what they really are about.

Lets start with the KKK group. I really don't have experience dealing with them. My impression is that they are likely to be racist (this does not really have to be the case -- some of them may just want to keep the "races" separate), but they presumably have a fondness for the "old south". They definitely do not want their daughters marrying other-than-white men. Then there are the so-called "Nazis", a different group. They tend to not be similar to the real Nazis that ruled Germany in WWII. The real Nazis (there are still some around) have real power, but not much compared to what Hitler and Co. had. The faux-Nazis that show up at some protests are always Big Losers. And they may not all be poor, some may have some money, but somehow, they strongly tend to generally be Big Losers, and they look like it (you can see it). Then we have the "alt-right" people. I think these characters listen religiously to the well-known radio hyper-demagogues, say like Michael Savage -- and they come to believe it all. They constantly complain about "socialism" and so on, but they have a very warped perspective, and to them, words don't mean what normal people would expect them to. They are bigots who invent lots of strange neologisms and very odd new phrases.

Then we have the other "side", or sides, actually. We have the academic and the sponsored "left", and these two groups tend to be almost identical. These are nearly all programmed people who seldom actually think for themselves, and many of these are found in vassal-"left" movements such as "Antifa". There presumably still are some autonomous left or progressive people, but they are perhaps hiding. There have not been many visible ones since the beginning of the Second Iraq War.

The "Antifa" group often shows up to counter-protest the faux-Nazis.

(There are also paleoconservatives and libertarians, but they tend not to be involved in these demonstrations.)

Posted by: blues | Aug 13, 2017 11:56:13 PM | 78

The US shit all started to come home with the election of Trump. Enjoy your perestroika America.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 14, 2017 12:15:53 AM | 79

blues @78: . . . the real nature of these groups . . . losers . . . programmed . . .

Thanks blues. Your description is important to understanding how make easy pawns.

The neoliberal globalist establishment wants to ensure that the left and right never join together. Fighting among extremists of both sides is one way to maintain the divide.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 14, 2017 12:24:43 AM | 80

somebody, wrong. The US Pepe generation is anti-deep state. Their one redeeming quality. The rest, brain damage.

Posted by: sejomoje | Aug 14, 2017 12:30:13 AM | 81

Old street saying.." What goes around, comes around"...

Posted by: ben | Aug 14, 2017 12:59:17 AM | 82

@27, 80 Jackrabbit, @78 blues, the "white rights" movement is real enough, but it seems to me it would be trivial to go on the big message boards and egg them on by pretending to be one of them. Does Soros do COINTELPRO? Anyone pushing for unity and common ground has got an uphill battle, left or right.

Posted by: Jim S | Aug 14, 2017 1:00:46 AM | 83

Expanding on @80

The 20-something alt-Right protestors wanted to show that a 'captured' government is biased against white people. They seem to have succeeded in that their constitutional rights were not respected.

But whoever led them to believe that whites should proudly embrace and defend the legacy and heros of the Confederate States has done them a disservice. Enslaving others is not something to be cherished (and yes, I know that the formal grievance was 'states rights') and only results in friction with groups that are theatened by such thinking.

There are surely other accomplishments that whites can rally behind. But instead SOMEONE has focused these young people on protecting a legacy of hate and injustice. A cause which is guaranteed to divide whites as much as it riles non-whites.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 14, 2017 1:02:53 AM | 84

Couple things about the car crash do not make sense. The crash just happens to take place where six or eight goofball Antifa are ready with baseball bats. And in the heat of the moment they all spontaneously have the same idea. Instead of going for the driver of the car they go after the back end of the car. Excuse me, I do not believe any of this happened by coincidence.

The driver is not concussed. The airbag did not go off. The car backs up a narrow alleyway at high speed, perfect NASCAR driving. The driver did not need more than a moment or two to collect himself after the collision and he is ready to go. The car is also ready to go. Radiator intact, steering gear intact. Bad crash, minor cosmetic damage only.

Now look at the people. How many uniforms of how many types can you spot? Look at all the fifty something and sixty something 'townspeople' hanging around, strolling casually where a supposed riot just happened and everything is still as tense as could be.

This was not an event. This was an operation. Totally scripted.

Posted by: oldhippie | Aug 14, 2017 1:17:23 AM | 85

Peter AU 1@79 - "Enjoy your perestroika America."

We don't do that here, Peter. When the natives get restless, we start a war.

Did the Russians Just Remove their Diplomats from North Korea?

Looks like you guys are in on it, too. Welcome to the Coalition of Evil. We should get an orb or something like that for dramatic flair.

Australia< in the firing line as Trump, Pyongyang and now China talk of war

Posted by: PavewayIV | Aug 14, 2017 1:19:49 AM | 86

oldhippie@85 - Sounds like you're reading too much Paul Craig Roberts:

How Conspiracy Theories Really Work

"...This conspiracy theory has no evidence whatsoever. It doesn’t need evidence, because it serves the interests of the military/security complex, the Democratic Party, the neoconservatives, and permits the presstitutes to show lavish devotion to their masters. By endless repetition a lie becomes truth.

There is a conspiracy, and it is against the American people. Their jobs have been offshored in order to enrich the already rich. They have been forced into debt in a futile effort to maintain their living standards. Their effort to stem their decline by electing a president who spoke for them is being subverted before their eyes by an utterly corrupt media and ruling class.

Sooner or later it will dawn on them that there is nothing they can do but violently revolt. Most likely, by the time they reach this conclusion it will be too late..."

The last paragraph I have disagree with. See @86 to Peter AU 1. We don't do revolt here - everyone on MoA knows what comes next.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Aug 14, 2017 1:31:15 AM | 87

@84 jackrabbit

Yeah because the north was totally saintly when it came to race relations. Bottom line is that slavery becomes illegal or packs up and leaves an area after awhile. A war with .5 million+ dead can not be justified by the north reasoning of ending slavery alone. To use psychohistorian's leitmotif, it was the world of high finance and monopolies that pitted the north vs. the south because the south had every intention of legally seceding from the union. That IS key here, so please don't gloss over that fact and then say that .5 million dead was justified to "end slavery." Although it does give the moral high ground, a la R2P. That is why many of those people in Virginia were there: to tell the world that the confederacy was not evil and they are sick and tired of having their soverign-vision of the USA being squashed by prescribed guilt from history's victors.

...

And for those that think this will quiet the reactionaries on the far right, think again. This is only the beginning. b's parallel to Ukraine is interesting yet somewhat inverted in that it is the left taking the monuments down this time and not the far right bringing down Stalin/Lenin in Maidan. Otherwise, I would say from an outside observer that sans a few bad nuts in shitty American cars, there is nary a party to root for save the small number of "alt-right" who legally protested the taking down of confederate monuments. As others have alluded, uniting the right might also bring in some bad elements that might have coopted the thing entirely, giving appropriate optics to the msm, and a lot of people here, to slather labels on people because they are too afraid of a fluid situation. I guess people do need to be led.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Aug 14, 2017 1:52:28 AM | 88

Paveway 86

As a nation, we are in on it too. Even the Dutch sent a rep or two with the Malaysian's to collect the victims and black boxes of MH17, yet Australia did not.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 14, 2017 2:12:10 AM | 89

B is absolutely right. The united snakes is always using fascists, ultra-nationalists, conservatives, religious extremists and other thugs to attack and overthrow left wing, secular, progressive, socialist, reformist oriented governments. Take a brief look to some past and present examples since 1945: Arbenz in Guatemala, Mossadegh in Iran, Allende in Chile, Bishop in Grenada, sandinistas in Nicaragua, Zelaya in Honduras and now Assad in Syria and Maduro in Venezuela...

Posted by: guy | Aug 14, 2017 2:24:14 AM | 90

The weird thing is that the III Reich was intrinsically SOCIALIST !! These USA Neo Nazis supposedlly hate Socialism and Communism but do not seem to know that Hitler's Political Paty was the German National Socialist WORKERS Party....and as son as he became Chancellor, Hitler started a Work Program based on taxing the rich, etc, etc. Meanwhile....the Antifa are mostly Hillary Disillutionals. The same Hillary who represented the Zionist Wall Street Bankers !! To me this event, the Charlotte Clash, was organized by the ones in war with Trump and the sames promoting hate against Al Assad, North Korea, the Russians, Venezuela's Governmet, etc, etc

Posted by: opereta | Aug 14, 2017 2:43:11 AM | 91

Nemesis @88

The war wasn't just about slavery. I noted this when I mention states rights. In fact the south was being exploited by the industrial north. But that hardly matters now. The fact is that the southern economy depended on slavery. So those of any race that find the practice of slavery to be abhorrent will react against those that try to justify or honor the people and states that practiced slavery.

The alt-right protesters made their point wrt constitutional rights but what have they gained? Even if the car had not happened ( and it is fishy) their 'victory' would be a narrow one that gains very little sympathy outside their own circles.

What this does is continue to keep nationalists and progressives at loggerheads so that they don't join against the corporations, oligarchs, and globalists.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Aug 14, 2017 3:14:45 AM | 92

Yes Moon of Alabama ...spot on....the same fascists are clapped along in ukraine and funded by the americans...dont forget the zionists are organising all of this war and chaos...they need to be removed from power in USA and worldwide....they are the enemy of all humanity....We are ALL Palestinians NOW

Posted by: charlie | Aug 14, 2017 4:22:27 AM | 93

Charlie 93

Yep. Just like the wahhabi's took control of the US when Roosevelt had a meet with the wahhabi king on a boat. Yeah, the US is just an innocent victim of all these nasty foreigners.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 14, 2017 4:39:34 AM | 94

Charlie 93

I was perhaps a bit quick on my first reply, but it is not just the Zionists. There are many fellow travellers. The US may now be a bit like Idlib province in Syria where the fellow travellers start turning on each other.

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Aug 14, 2017 4:47:50 AM | 95

Ah yes, the Quincy Agreement;
Quincy Agreement
On 14 February 1945, Great Bitter Lake was the site of the Quincy Agreement. U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt, having flown directly from the Yalta Conference with Winston Churchill and Joseph Stalin, met on board the naval cruiser USS Quincy with Saudi Arabia's King Abdulaziz.
Wiki

Ironic name that; Great Bitter Lake, no?

Posted by: V. Arnold | Aug 14, 2017 5:22:23 AM | 96

I am not normaly interested in the conflict between the group often called the "alt-right" or the more inflammatory "white supremacist" and those called "leftists" or "liberals".However, what happened in Charlottesville seems to me to be one of those clarifying events that deserve extra attention.

Those who chose to make a point by protesting deserve to be heard, and failure to listen to their central grievances will provoke more rage and more frustration. Those who came out to oppose them probably think they are expressing their distaste, but they violate what they think are fundamental principles, such as free speech and peaceable assembly, that they profess to hold dear.

Both sides of this question should pause for thought. Is continued escalation in anybody's interest?

The deafness of the "liberals" to a message they do not want to hear, but should, if they believe what they preach about tolerance, is going to deepen a divide that already has appeared. A segment of society feels oppressed and ignored and is justifiably demanding sympathy and compromise. This does not seem to be a demand for supremacy.

What is the harm of displaying a statue of General Lee? The Civil War is a feature of American History, an event that everyone needs to come to terms with. Lee was a great man, in his own way. Ignoring that ignores something essential about U.S. history. Those who see this feel dispossesed by the "do-gooder" politicians who have fallen out of touch.

Is democracy about the ascendancy of one ideology, one world view over all other ideopogies and world views, or is it the supremely forgiving process of acceptance and reconciliation?

Posted by: simplyamazed | Aug 14, 2017 7:29:45 AM | 99

84

I was wondering, is there something called "white culture" as these nuts assume?
If white culture is slavery and the Ku Klux Klan, please count me out.

Democrats should reconsider identity politics. The basic assumption is that white people are privileged and have to share. These guys clearly don't feel privileged.

Posted by: somebody | Aug 14, 2017 7:45:01 AM | 100

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