Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 06, 2017

The Undeniable Pattern Of Russian Hacking (Updated)

Updated below

A wide review of news sources finds an undeniable patter of international "Russian hacking" claims:

  • Many, if not all such accusation, are based on say-so by some anonymous "official" or self-promoting "expert".
  • Many, if not all such accusation, are rebutted within a few days or weeks.
  • News about any alleged "Russian hacking" is widely distributed and easy to find.
  • News of the debunking of such claims is reported only sparsely (if at all) and more difficult to retrieve.


Source: Jeff Darcy, Cleveland.com - bigger

Examples:

Ukraine

United States

Germany

Germany

France

Qatar

United Kingdom

The undeniable patter of "Russian hacking" is that any claim thereof is likely not true and will be debunked in due time.

These remarks on the "Russian hacking" allegation in relation to the U.S. election are therefore quite appropriate:

President Trump again cast a skeptical eye on intelligence community assessments that Russia interfered with the 2016 presidential election, saying Thursday while on a visit to Poland that "nobody really knows for sure" what happened.
...
Trump also compared the intelligence about Russian interference with the faulty assessment that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction in 2002, which provided President Bush with a justification to go to war.

"Guess what, they were wrong, and that led to one big mess," he said.

Update (June 7 3:00am Est):

To frame today's Trump-Putin talks at the G20 meeting in Hamburg (and to prove the above, timely post correct?) U.S. media issued three new story today implicating "Russian hacking". The stories are made up of rumors, fearmongering and of reports of banal phishing attempts on some administrative systems. While all three implicate Russia they naturally contain ZERO evidence to anything related to that country.

In the very likely case that the above described pattern of "Russian hacking" holds, all three stories will be debunked within the next few days or weeks.

Posted by b on July 6, 2017 at 09:35 AM | Permalink

Comments

My take on all of the media bullshit is; believe nothing; and wait; because mostly, the truth outs in the end.
It's a matter of patience; as the monk said; we'll see...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Jul 6, 2017 9:48:18 AM | 1

Did anyone see the "CBS 60 Minutes" segment on the wonderfulness of the "White Helmets," and the awesome work they do in rescuing people from underneath buildings that the US has bombed into rubble?

Posted by: Bill H | Jul 6, 2017 9:57:33 AM | 2

Bill H | Jul 6, 2017 9:57:33 AM | 3

No, didn't see and wouldn't waste my time with such; but much appreciate your input.

Posted by: V. Arnold | Jul 6, 2017 10:08:49 AM | 3

By now this is irrelevant. Trump now is following the required policy line. Everything goes his due way. MSM was successful and will kill us all.

Posted by: Pnyx | Jul 6, 2017 11:05:10 AM | 4

Fake news and its equivalents have existed since Socrates time, if not longer, their power and pervasiveness only increasing ever since. The first thing a person must understand and accept is the existence of the Propaganda and Indoctrination Systems in order to overcome them and get at the Truth, which is what the Socratic Dicta The Unexamined Life isn't worth living is all about. Unfortunately, human history is short on people having Socrates's character and too many with that of Plato's and Machiavelli's. Lies and deceptions are a very poor foundation for longstanding political power and the authority needed to govern justly, which is the West's downfall. Compare Putin and Xi's actions and words--the primary goals of Russia's and China's alliance--with those of any Western "leader," and it quickly becomes clear their Win-Win goals are on a distinctly higher moral level than the Zero-sum Game touted by the West. There is no need for the emerging Multipolar Alliance to use Fake News to mask their actions for their cause is moral and just. An interesting example of the above was conveyed in a New York Times article picked up by my local paper regarding the fears of Trump's handlers at his upcoming meet with Putin: "Putin Meeting's risks concern Trump aides," the "risks" being no one knows "what Trump will decide to say or do." Yes, that gave me a good laugh first thing this morning and allowed me to envision Trump as The Creature From the Black Lagoon.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 6, 2017 11:12:51 AM | 5

@Bill H #3 my favorite part was Scott Pelly narratiion basically saying science can't explain the rescue(s) and it should just be chalked up to "miracles"

Posted by: Steve F | Jul 6, 2017 11:40:31 AM | 6

Craig Murray has a great piece on this whole affair at his blog that complements b's well, https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/07/stink-without-secret/

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 6, 2017 11:43:26 AM | 7

It's not working. It appeals to neither the right nor the left. It's noise meant to confuse centrist voters as the neoconservative neoliberal world order crumbles.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Jul 6, 2017 12:12:01 PM | 8

2 reason

1. These hacking claims, or
any other claims for that matter
is spread by deepstate in relations with western media that in turn spread this disinformation to western readers =money and support for the military-industrial thugs.
2. Racism against Russia

What se see is psyops carried out daily.

Posted by: tommy | Jul 6, 2017 12:14:22 PM | 9

thanks b... how to create a bogeyman for ulterior motives... it works...all based on bs, but it works... people are supposed to remain ignorant, but some just don't fall for it.. i agree with karlof1 - craig murray also did an article yesterday that said much the same... complete fabricated bs essentially... the question remains - why does the msm want to demonize russia??

Posted by: james | Jul 6, 2017 12:17:20 PM | 10

Thanks b. Now we all can learn from masters what are fake news.

Like FED economic predictions are 90% wrong, MSM assertions are 90% wrong. As a Engineer I say it is intentional, 50-50 chance would be a result of monkey fact checking MSM so called news.

Posted by: Kalen | Jul 6, 2017 12:31:46 PM | 11

James

Indeed people of the West are increasingly stupid and ignorant.
Add also that no media/politicans talk about the obvious issue that b brought up here. West seems doomed with their
total lack of dissent.

Posted by: tommy | Jul 6, 2017 12:39:46 PM | 12

Hope this isn't OT. Trump has played his Poland card. A very conservative government I'm told (by the BBC). Poles of course don't want to help with the refugee/migrant problem in Europe so Trump found some ready ears there. That will not sit well with Merkel.

He also did some Russia bashing. Poles can't get enough of that. It's curious though because Poles seem to fear Ukrainians as much as Russians (the Galicia problem) and Trump is giving Ukraine full victim status.

Perhaps somebody with a better understanding of Polish politics can clarify.

Posted by: dh | Jul 6, 2017 12:48:45 PM | 13

It's fine for everyone to get their knickers in a knot about the reliability or lack thereof concerning the hacking issue. The outrage is palpable when discussing how the deep state and MSM have led the poor stupid Americans down the garden path when any thinking person could see it was all unmitigated bullshit. If only everyone read the alt press and the blogs then we wouldn't have this mess.

Be that as it may, there's yet another little niggling problem that doesn't seem to want to go away. That's the intricate web of business and financial dealings between heavy players in the Russian establishment and various members of the Trump team. These dealings are being scrutinized by the same people who unraveled the Enron debacle and who have also been the worst nightmare for various mobsters and crooked politicians over the years. It's what keeps the Donald up at night.

One of the problems with making billions illegally is how to wash the money. It's very easy to see how a vast network of golf resorts and luxury hotels might come in handy. Trump's already shown beyond a doubt that he's ready and eager to leverage his position for personal gain. Visiting dignitaries unfailingly book his Washington hotel because they believe he checks the admissions. His resorts are booked to the tits for weddings because their websites mentioned that he was fond of crashing receptions before they were shamed into deleting that part. The price of membership has doubled at Mar-a-Lago. Why wouldn't foreign billionaires view him and his team as amenable to making deals for truckloads of money?

Now I know how much this pisses off the true believers so I'll make an offer. If Trump's people come up clean after Mueller's done taking all of Flynn, Manafort, Page and Kushner's records apart page by page I'll make my abject apology and never darken this venerable site again. Till then, wake the fuck up and smell the coffee.

Posted by: peter | Jul 6, 2017 1:14:00 PM | 14

Not sure if this been posted,

New York Times Forced To Retract Longstanding '17 Intel Agencies' Lie About Russian Hacking to 3.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-30/new-york-times-forced-retract-longstanding-17-intel-agencies-lie-about-russian-hacki

Posted by: Anoynous | Jul 6, 2017 1:16:10 PM | 15

14.05.2017 International Cyber Attack: Roots Traced to US National Security Agency

Over 45,000 ransomware attacks have been tracked in large-scale attacks across Europe and Asia — particularly Russia and China — as well as attacks in the US and South America.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/05/14/international-cyber-attack-roots-traced-us-national-security-agency.html

Posted by: Brian | Jul 6, 2017 1:17:11 PM | 16

@6 karlof1
There is no need for the emerging Multipolar Alliance to use Fake News to mask their actions for their cause is moral and just.

What do you make of this, then? Why all the censorship, especially as of late?
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/terry-glavin-liars-cowards-and-hypocrites-infest-beijing-and-canada-politely-looks-away/wcm/a8ab8e55-ed4f-4dad-bd29-ccc85e9a4016

Posted by: ragehead | Jul 6, 2017 1:19:43 PM | 17

Hacking this, hacking that, so, what else is new? Hacking is a fact of the modern age, every industrial country engages in it, to one degree or another, for information. Did the Russians change the outcome of the 2016 election? I for one, doubt it. Our voting systems are attacked and votes are changed by DOMESTIC hackers, not the Russians. Blaming the Russians is deflection, nothing more. Voter suppression by DOMESTIC forces are the REAL problem, not outsiders. The U$A voting systems need to be changed, that's the real problem.

But, that issue is never discussed.

Posted by: ben | Jul 6, 2017 1:39:10 PM | 18

Posted by: ragehead | Jul 6, 2017 1:19:43 PM | 19
That is not a news article, but an opinion piece. Managed to read about 1/3 of it, a gag reflex stopped me to go further through that unbearable condescending drivel. Steaming pile of horse doodoo.

Posted by: hopehely | Jul 6, 2017 1:47:21 PM | 19

ragehead @19--

Glavin is clearly very biased to the point of being racist. If Xi is a "tyrant," then what does that make Trudeau, a clear ally in the Outlaw US Empire's War Of Terror? Glavin reminds me of O'Reilly and Limbaugh using rhetoric to capitalize on Indoctrination System's implanted biases rather than facts and reason.

Long ago, Putin declared Russia sought honest partners to further its international relations and Eurasian projects. The great depth of the Russia/China relationship/alliance is based on the trust that grows from honest interactions--roughly the opposite of what it gets from the Unipolar Outlaw US Empire and its vassals, including Canada. A very valid question for Glavin is: Why does Canada accept the version of the Ukrainian Coup cooked up by the Outlaw US Empire when so much evidence says it's just another Big Lie? The MH17 story? The entire Syria "Civil War" meme and "Moderate Terrorists" being "Rebels"? And oh so much more, like 911, MLK, JFK, Malcom X, and RFK, and so on and so forth.

The Truth is the Outlaw US Empire is well proven to be a Big Liar greater than any other before it in history; Glavin wholeheartedly supports and facilitates the spreading of them for his own personal gain. That's what I make of him and the item you pointed to.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 6, 2017 1:54:36 PM | 20

...
Now I know how much this pisses off the true believers so I'll make an offer. If Trump's people come up clean after Mueller's done taking all of Flynn, Manafort, Page and Kushner's records apart page by page I'll make my abject apology and never darken this venerable site again. Till then, wake the fuck up and smell the coffee.
Posted by: peter | Jul 6, 2017 1:14:00 PM | 14

Don't go!
I love accidental comedy and you're almost as good at it as the pros at the BBC.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 6, 2017 2:03:49 PM | 21

Peter, as Horsewhisperer said please don't go. If there is any evidence of Trump collusion with Russia then it must be really buried. On the other hand there is an enormous amount of evidence hiding in plain sight of collusion between the Democrats and Russia and in particular the Clinton Foundation which had a nice little pay to play game going laundering the money through the Canadian Clinton Foundation. But, that is apparently not something anyone really cares about as she didn't win (thank god). I am not a Trump lover but I am definitely pleased she didn't get elected. However, the results look remarkably similar so it apparently doesn't make any difference at all who is in office. We are totally screwed either way.

Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Jul 6, 2017 2:15:36 PM | 22

@17 ragehead... look into what the national post is about - it's history and etc... it is a piece of 100% crap media outlet.. if you want propaganda - keep reading it.. i won't humour it by even opening the link... waste of time...

@21 hoarsewhisperer, lol...

Posted by: james | Jul 6, 2017 2:20:23 PM | 23

Me also compared the intelligence about the weapons of mass destruction in 2002 with the faulty assessment that the Syrian government used chemical attacks in Khan Sheikoun, which provided President Trump with a justification to further escalate the war.

Guess what, they were wrong, and that led to one big mess,

Posted by: xor | Jul 6, 2017 2:49:24 PM | 24

Cyber hacking is maybe an act of war ! The issue is hanging.

A few exs:

2011. "The Pentagon has concluded that computer sabotage coming from another country can constitute an act of war, a finding that for the first time opens the door for the U.S. to respond using traditional military force. "

WSJ

2015. Obama declares hacking a national emergency.

white house arch

motherboard

2016. McCain says Russia hacking is an act or war.

that’s the daily mail

2017. Cheney says Russia meddling could be Act of War.

business insider

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 6, 2017 3:05:17 PM | 25

@25

So the first country with a true "act of war case" is Iran when attacked with the "Stuxnet" by the Us-Israel consortium.

Shouldn't that be a probable case to get indemnities from these govts?

Posted by: CarlD | Jul 6, 2017 3:15:16 PM | 26

@22 Old Microbiologist

Thanks for that. I can see where some might see being this down on Trump must mean I wish Clinton had won. Far from it. The voters were fucked before they left the house.

Posted by: peter | Jul 6, 2017 3:33:24 PM | 27

Is it time to STOP talking about ISSUES, which simply distract us?

This is the BEST example, by ANALOGY, which I can offer, to show , TODAY’S AMERICA and Americans and hopefully, via this video below get through to you, not that I haven’t tried in so many other ways, with WORDS .

Americans do not seem to realize they are LITERALLY fighting a BATTLE of “KILL or BE KILLED”.

We are, ALL, not just Americans in the Western World dealing with DANGEROUS PREDATORS, whom I have named so many times, who SURVIVE because of their KILLING instinct. When they are Humans, as our "predators" are, we call them PSYCHOPATHS. IN the ANIMAL world the killing behavior is NATURAL and a NECESSARY part of SURVIVAL and we recognize and respect that. It is the SAME in the Human world only we have stopped recognizing that, and respecting it...... to our PERIL.

NO, I am NOT talking about Muslims !

WE, OUTNUMBER our ENEMY and could easily take them out, but we run around not knowing what to do, in spite of people like myself warning you what you can do. Why?........You have lost your “KILL", if necessary, to SURVIVE” instinct .You don’t even want to contemplate it.

I am talking about, so-called, PEOPLE we call, Illuminati, Freemasons, Zionists, Cabal etc. They number less than 10,000 .WE number in the BILLIONS- over 300 million in the U.S. alone

We are like the 4 large DOGS, against only 1 WOLF in this video beelow. The DOGS outnumber and could easily KILL the Wolf, ( I have owned many large dogs and know ) but these 4 dogs have lost their KILLING instinct, to SURVIVE and thus DO NOT KNOW what to do,…… mainly because of US.

We raise them like we raise and pamper our children, as if they are people( digs), resulting in the same lack of AWARENESS of the DANGER, right in front of them, as do our children and MOST Americans and WHAT to do about it. Those dogs in this video, literally run around the Wolf, barking incessantly, but do NOTHING else. The result is one of the four dogs is casually carried away, still obviously alive, and ironically helping the Wolf, itself, by running along with it, in its mouth, oblivious to its very painful fate, AND in spite of being as large as the Wolf……… to become food for the wolf’s family.

I don't blame the wolf, It is doing what NATURE designed it to do. Those Dogs and WE, especially, are NOT doing what we are designed to do – SURVIVE!!!

The Wolf will return, again and again over the weeks ahead to carry away another dog, or cat - one at a time UNTIL ALL dogs it can find, are FOOD, for the Wolf's Family, as is happening to us.

I also live in the Canadian North and know of what I speak.

Those Dogs and WE are an EASY “MEAL”, for predators ( psychopaths) and for the SAME REASON - we don’t TRULY and PROPERLY fight back, not to just to defend but to ELIMINATE the Predator: https://www.youtube.com/wat..."

Defense, alone, is useless, because the Predator will keep coming back, until it wins.


Posted by: Freespirit | Jul 6, 2017 3:40:05 PM | 28

Posted by: CarlD | Jul 6, 2017 3:15:16 PM | 26

So the first country with a true "act of war case" is Iran when attacked with the "Stuxnet" by the Us-Israel consortium.

Of course not! Stuxie is just a solution type The Good Guys try to avoid the real war. ;-)

Posted by: hopehely | Jul 6, 2017 3:55:45 PM | 29

25 & 26

Sending former Nazi SS at WW2's end into Soviet controlled eastern Europe to conduct acts of terrorism was an Act of War.

Overthrowing Iran's government in 1953 was an Act of War.
Overthrowing Guatemala's government in 1954 was an Act of War.

The entire list compiled by Bill Blum lists Acts of War committed by the Outlaw US Empire, https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list

The still ongoing embargo of Cuba is an Act of War.

And there are so many more; the total number may reach into the low thousands, which is why I call my own country the Outlaw US Empire--it's more than earned that appellation and must be prosecuted for its very many Capital Crimes.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 6, 2017 4:05:56 PM | 30

Since the promotion of Big Lies is at the foundation of Fake News, I was just reminded of an oldie-but-goodie:

"In this spring of 1953 the free world weighs one question above all others: the chance for a just peace for all peoples.

"The way chosen by the United States was plainly marked by a few clear precepts, which govern its conduct in world affairs.

"First: No people on earth can be held, as a people, to be enemy, for all humanity shares the common hunger for peace and fellowship and justice.

"Second: No nation's security and well-being can be lastingly achieved in isolation but only in effective cooperation with fellow-nations.

"Third: Any nation's right to form of government and an economic system of its own choosing is inalienable.

"Fourth: Any nation's attempt to dictate to other nations their form of government is indefensible.

"And fifth: A nation's hope of lasting peace cannot be firmly based upon any race in armaments but rather upon just relations and honest understanding with all other nations.

"In the light of these principles the citizens of the United States defined the way they proposed to follow, through the aftermath of war, toward true peace".
Dwight David Eisenhower - Chance for Peace speech, http://www.eisenhowermemorial.org/speeches/19530416%20Chance%20for%20Peace.htm

Ike's actions at the moment he uttered those words made them a mockery as did his later behavior. But the Big Lie was aimed at the domestic audience, to cover-up the depravity already committed and that which would be soon to follow.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 6, 2017 5:03:37 PM | 31

Hacking is an act of war? Obviously, it depends. If Podesta's e-mails were hacked and the content released, allowing the truth of the situation to merge only an addled mind would conclude that it was a "warlike" act that would justify even one retaliatory death. There is, however, a more interesting question. If sanctions cause misery, loss and death, and that causation can be reasonably anticipated, why would that not constitute an act of war?

Posted by: zakukommander | Jul 6, 2017 5:20:46 PM | 32

I hope Clinton News Network collapses soon...

Zakharova tells CNN to man up and apologize for the 'Aleppo Boy' hoax

Posted by: ProPeace | Jul 6, 2017 5:22:49 PM | 33

@20 karlof1
Thank you very much for your reply.

I agree with your comment about the Outlaw US Empire and its current stature as the world's #1 villain. I've become incredibly disillusioned by the West as of late, with the lies I see constantly being fed to otherwise kind-hearted individuals around me. I guess this is my first experience with "waking up" as many have put it here.

The opinion piece I linked was quite biased; I know that I can't simply "fact-check" his claims on Chinese censorship using traditional western media outlets. Speaking to a mainland Chinese friend as well as a friend from Hong Kong seems to verify his censorship claims, though, which is my main point of concern.

I worry that dissent and protest is being crushed in China in the same manner that it is being weeded out in the West. Could you imagine not even being allowed to visit a website like MoA? That is my greatest fear out of all. My point being - while we cheer on major powers like China and Russia for giving the US the slap in the face it so rightly deserves, how do we know that they won't become just as bad, if not worse, when the US comes crumbling down?

Posted by: ragehead | Jul 6, 2017 5:31:55 PM | 34

A bit off topic but this has been driving me crazy, the 'U.S. debt clock' http://www.usdebtclock.org/

It's at $19.964T the problem is that it was about $19.955T when Trump was sworn into office in Jan. Hmm... so let me get this straight, it has increased by only $10B even though our annual budget deficit is still between $500B - $600B.

Amazing, it's like watching water run uphill.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Jul 6, 2017 5:40:05 PM | 35

Every article on "Russia-gate" should be required to be the following subtitle:

Unknown official makes unverifiable claim based on unavailable evidence.

This is not snark nor satire. But literally true for every article about Russia and the election.

Posted by: Erelis | Jul 6, 2017 6:06:32 PM | 36

ragehead | Jul 6, 2017 5:31:55 PM | 34

In my short stay in China, I found very little was censored. Anything google was blocked, less to do with content and more to do with google being a CIA construct. Anti China MSM available.

I went to China expecting to see something of a police state having lived my life with western propaganda. Away from the international scene there was very little police presence and they did not carry guns. Chinese had more freedoms - less rules and regs in their everyday lives than I do here in Australia. It is us in the US "west" that live in a police state.

Posted by: Peter AU | Jul 6, 2017 6:13:12 PM | 37

from Allen Ginsberg's poem, America, in the collection Howl and Other Poems, 1956


.....America it's them bad Russians.
Them Russians them Russians and them Chinamen. And them Russians.
The Russia wants to eat us alive. The Russia's power mad. She wants to take
our cars from out our garages.
Her wants to grab Chicago. Her needs a Red Reader's Digest. Her wants our
auto plants in Siberia. Him big bureaucracy running our fillingstations.
That no good. Ugh. Him makes Indians learn read. Him need big black niggers.
Hah. Her make us all work sixteen hours a day. Help.
America this is quite serious.
America this is the impression I get from looking in the television set.
America is this correct?....

Posted by: michaelj72 | Jul 6, 2017 6:21:03 PM | 38

@33 ProPeace

I thought it was quite astonishing that Margarita Semonyan of RT actually presented that picture of "little Omran" before the leaders of China and Russia together. It's about the 1:50 mark in this nice clip from Inessa: RT Boss calls Barack Obama 'insignificant human being'

But now from your link we learn that the Russian Foreign Ministry won't let the matter drop, but will pursue CNN to admit the falsity of the story. This elevates the situation considerably. Amanpour of CNN apparently did actually challenge Lavrov with that picture.

Throughout the information war, so called, Russia has offered its evidence and narrative on various matters, and even though it falls on deaf ears in the west, after a time she shapes actual policy around this verified narrative. Semonyan asked for China to work with Russia to combat false news. Perhaps pieces are being put in place, with typical Russian thoroughness, for a new global framework of public information to emerge in the next couple of years?

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 6, 2017 6:50:21 PM | 39

#38

And in 1956 no less. Exactly 61 years ago. And in the time it took to raise momma's boy 61 years, I've witnessed how many CIA assassinations? How many American acts of war? How many US acts of terror?

And how many admissions of mistakes? Of errors? Of regret or even a single an act of contrition to make things right? How many have been killed by empire building? How many economic hit men still work for the agencies spreading the lies of globalization???

Yeah, its the Russians. LMAO.

Posted by: JSonofa | Jul 6, 2017 6:59:15 PM | 40

ragehead @34--

Thanks for your understandable response and the pained question you posed.

Who to trust when one finds themselves surrounded by a world filled with lies and deception, where those lobbying for our trust are the worst liars of all, where even your parents lie and deceive you beginning almost at birth? One way is to look to see if deeds/actions match the actor's words. If you're told the economic system is aimed at uplifting all citizens--not just the elite--and it seems to do so, do you then trust the leader who told you? Xi and Putin have uttered those words and seem to be working very hard to make them reality. Are the benefits of their work unevenly distributed, yet they say they try to level outcomes as best as they can and look to right injustices when made aware of them--do you put trust in such leaders? Have you invested the time to read the many hours of such interactions between Putin and his citizenry that provides evidence confirming the above? It's all there online. What of Xi's announced war on corruption and its outcomes thus far; what message do you get from it? When you know of the many historic attempts by the Outlaw US Empire to undermine the governments of both Russia and China, how much of the dissent you read about is genuine or manufactured?

I could go on for several pages, but I won't. China's culture is over 6,000 years old and has needed to figure out a way to govern the greatest mass of humanity concentrated in one polity for the vast majority of that time; and yes, the process was messy and cruel rather often. Russia's culture has had to try and govern the greatest landmass and number of different ethnic groups over its 1100 years of existence--a babe compared to China--with similarly messy and often cruel outcomes. As a historian, I'd say that the current leadership of Russia and China have learned a great many lessons from their nation's/culture's past--that promoting harmony and communalistic outcomes while trying to staunch unequal outcomes is the best policy to pursue: I'm paraphrasing their stated goals and the reasoning behind them. By contrast, the United States 1787 coup brought forth a document whose Preamble states that one of the government's goals is to "promote the general Welfare" and thus "form a more perfect Union," and then ensured the triumph of Oligarchical rule over the democratic promise present within the Spirit of '76--an Oligarchy that's successfully imposed the first inverted totalitarian government onto humanity and hopes to spread it's dominance globally with no regards to the consequences.

Occasionally within the Outlaw US Empire arises a flicker of hope that's then smashed, sometimes brutally. Rarely it's revealed that the object of that hope was being duplicitous at the time, colluding with the opposition it railed against. Hope fades and cynicism rises to the betterment of the Oligarchy and its systems. Can something be done to overturn the Oligarchy and their systems? Or would it be easier to emigrate, adopt a new nation whose goals are moral and begin again? Those seem to be the two choices available. Sorry for the longwindedness.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 6, 2017 7:08:06 PM | 41

A little off topic but

Has the US ever even apologized over the "USS Vincennes" downing of Iran Air' flight 655 with 289 people on board? Didn't these people have families? Aren't these entitled to reparations?

Posted by: CarlD | Jul 6, 2017 7:13:02 PM | 42

It's called the echo chamber and groupthink. Repeat the lies enough and the sheeple will believe it . Even though it is a lie and fabricated deception.
This is becoming a pattern in the west groupthink ,this is how they formu;late their argument and decieve the population to think that it is a reality. Just remember how they lead us to the Iraq war and occupation and then Libya. This goes way back during the Yugoslavian fiasco how they fabricated and formulated theire lies and deception to bomb Serbia back to the stone ages and how they justified their war of agression in Libya. Liberal interventionist replaced the warhawk/neoconservative. Same thing different terminology. They consistanstly continue to re fashion their narrative to suit their agenda.
Think about it Wesly Clarke revealing the original plan / Seven countries in five years . Well look it took a decade but they have done everything according to tjeir plan., the last country left is IRAN and viola what happened just a month ago. I might also add look at the Phillipines and Duterte being a self proclaimed nationalist and viola who veers their head ISIS in Mindanao.
WAKE UP Daesh is all a ruse just like the mujahadeen in the the 80's they are all part and parcel of their vile evil plan. BY DECEPTION YOU MAY WAGE WAR. Docius in Fundem WOLFAWITZ DOCTRINE ; WAR IS GOOD FOR BUSINESS

Posted by: falcemartello | Jul 6, 2017 7:55:29 PM | 43

The US MSM brought up the Russian hacking allegations and a Trump statement. He seems to be getting on board the neo-clown train or some aspects of it.

Bill H 2
The MSM news is to be watched for entertainment, to be ridiculed, and to have ammo to show others what kind of brainwashing they get. It provides impressions of the news. Neil Postman's 1985 book Amusing Ourselves to Death covered this well.

CarlD 42
Bush refused to apologize but I think some kind of $ettlement was paid. The Iranians were pissed that the trigger-happy ship captain was not punished and received a medal (for being there). They tend to think he was rewarded.

Posted by: Curtis | Jul 6, 2017 8:12:13 PM | 44

ProPeace 33
PJW ripped CNN a new one recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxg6Xs3jQek

Posted by: Curtis | Jul 6, 2017 8:15:26 PM | 45

@44 falcemartello

It's called the echo chamber and groupthink. Repeat the lies enough and the sheeple will believe it . Even though it is a lie and fabricated deception.

Yup...even if a story is retracted thousands of reinforcing tweets and CCs have already been sent, outraged "reactions" typed, tapped and posted and the propaganda "meme" has been successfully planted in the public's mind. It is amazing how effective simple repetition is as a mind infiltration tool. People who have never learned the art of intellectual self-defense are particularly vulnerable to this form of influence.

Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Jul 6, 2017 8:25:24 PM | 46

NatGeo substituted Gaza footage for Aleppo in a documentary on Syria.

http://truepublica.org.uk/global/national-geographic-hell-earth-syria-hoax/

Posted by: Les | Jul 6, 2017 9:12:59 PM | 47

Trump has accepted that Russia interfered. Now (finally!), on his overseas trip, he has mentioned that other countries have also interfered. He wouldn't say who. Most USA news simply ignore this inconvenient truth.

But those who not incurious may well ask questions like:

> Why hasn't he said this before?

> Why won't he say this in the USA or, on his twitter?

> Why doesn't he name the worst offenders? And so on...

It seems that few want to consider the ulgy possibility that the collusion wasn't Trump-Russia but Trump-Clintons.

=

Taken In: Fake News Distracts Us From Fake Election

=

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 6, 2017 9:38:29 PM | 48

karlof1 @ 41 said:" By contrast, the United States 1787 coup brought forth a document whose Preamble states that one of the government's goals is to "promote the general Welfare" and thus "form a more perfect Union," and then ensured the triumph of Oligarchical rule over the democratic promise present within the Spirit of '76--an Oligarchy that's successfully imposed the first inverted totalitarian government onto humanity and hopes to spread it's dominance globally with no regards to the consequences."

Great post, and absolutely spot on...

Posted by: ben | Jul 6, 2017 11:27:56 PM | 49

Faux-populist leaders need EXCUSES for betraying their base.

Political opposition that is energized by 'fake news' of Russian a Russian threat to democracy is just as useful as the 'fake news' that Obama isn't a "real American" (OMG, a socialist Muslim that wasn't born in the US!!!).

How Things Work: Betrayal by Faux-populist Leaders

Media focus on the partisan SHOW, granting attention to apologists that bemoan the forcing of the faux-populist hero's hand. Troubling questions and dismay are not allowed into the public's "mind-space".

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Jul 7, 2017 12:31:01 AM | 50

@ b with the latest puzzling (to me) quote: ""Guess what, they were wrong, and that led to one big mess," he (Trump) said."

The comment challenging the decision to go to war with Iraq is puzzling to me because it seems to not fit with the "reports" that Trump has been "compromised" and now marching to the old order.....what ever that is/was. It seems to reflect a direct challenge to an (as yet to be identified) cohort within what we think of as the elite. I keep trying to understand the factions and their goals in this real/contrived circus we see unfolding before us.

How can Trump say that going to war with Iraq was bad out of one side of his mouth and say that Iran/Korea/China are next up to war of some sort out of the other side?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 7, 2017 1:01:37 AM | 51

@ me who could have added Russia/Syria/Ukraine and who knows what other countries have been politiced/bullied by Trump since in office......and according to what agenda?

Hey, karlof1 who seems to think the choices are reduced to two. I think that the geopolitical ground is moving so much at this time in comparison to the past 40+ years that I have been watching that I am more hopeful of a resolution to what you call the Oligarchy issue now than ever before. You provide good historical context to the China and Russia evolution and I like to point out that China has built and executed 13 5-years plans for their form of governance....that has the word communist it their name......while the West is ruled by a bunch of nation's Central Banks modeled after the FED with privately owned banks and the planning is? ....let me stop there...

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 7, 2017 1:25:29 AM | 52

In the same vein, about Iran:
After 1,379 Days, NYT Corrects Bogus Claim Iran ‘Sponsored’ 9/11,
http://fair.org/home/after-1379-days-nyt-corrects-bogus-claim-iran-sponsored-911/

Posted by: Grenelle75 | Jul 7, 2017 2:06:22 AM | 53

Every article on "Russia-gate" should be required to be the following subtitle:
Unknown Official makes Unverifiable Claim based on Unavailable Evidence.
This is not snark nor satire. But literally true for every article about Russia and the election.
Posted by: Erelis | Jul 6, 2017 6:06:32 PM | 36

Hey, that's an idea with unlimited potential, Erelis!

It could form the basis of a semi-official U.O.U.C.U.E Catalogue/ Christian Colonial Bullshit File, divided into Chapters, with each chapter having Pages.
A Permanent Record.

Russia Hacking could be Chapter 1
Putin Evil could be Chapter 2
China Threat could be Chapter 3
North Korea could be Chapter 4
Etc, etc, ad infinitum/ ad nauseum...

The beauty of it is that, like Western Bullshit, The Catalogue can be added to without limits. All that's needed is a place to keep it and a simple procedure for updating it.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 7, 2017 3:04:55 AM | 54

Fake news and this includes that generated by Trump (incessant leading Tweets and idiotic comments, 'I may have tapes!'), biased news reporting from CNN and Fox News, and general garbage thrown out to the internet by bored people are an unfortunate fact of life. All this clouds the issues - the economy continues to improve slowly and the improvement is a result of the Obama Administration - the Republican policies which may or may not be Trump's policies (on any given day) have yet to emerge so no effect yet. Policies with some hope of implementation are needed - I want to see the president and other officials (public servants) working hard for the country not for themselves. Also, I wish for a return to civility. There is a false belief among some Americans, including Trump, that being a loud mouth boor is acceptable behavior - I do not want this type of behavior at my business, church, or neighborhood. Get to work D.C. and quit in fighting and acting ridiculously.

Posted by: Alestra | Jul 7, 2017 3:13:06 AM | 55

Grenelle75 55
The neoclowns acted to link their targets to 9/11. Iraq was the first one. Iran didn't recognize the court and didn't show up for the court case so it was guilt by default with the media willing to pile on. And yet the Saudis had immunity for a very long time. Twisted logic.

Posted by: Curtis | Jul 7, 2017 7:03:36 AM | 56

Thatnks for the update b!

Yes, when Trump and Putin meet - the sick fucks in the liberal western media (CNN, NYtimes etc) along with deep state spread more lies and desinformation to destroy better US/Russia relations. What the fuck is wrong with these people? Why are they so eager for war? Or dont they get it? I dont!

Posted by: Anon | Jul 7, 2017 7:57:52 AM | 57

EU hail Trump after blasting Russia in Poland
http://www.uniindia.com/eu-s-tusk-hails-trump-words-wants-to-see-deeds/world/news/923047.html

These people are so sick with their hateful warmongering attitude.

Posted by: Anon | Jul 7, 2017 8:13:33 AM | 58

Determining the truth by gazing into the entrails of media headlines?

I'd laugh except you're serious...

Posted by: Horatio Parker | Jul 7, 2017 9:09:38 AM | 59

NYT uses the recently applied technique of the Administration: pre-report a calamity. In this case: Putin will look better than Trump in their meeting. They do not look at the bright sides, e.g. Trump is considerably taller.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jul 7, 2017 9:11:15 AM | 60

"Qatar

CNN Exclusive: US suspects Russian hackers planted fake news behind Qatar crisis, CNN - Jun 7, 2017
Qatar says news agency hacking linked to states boycotting Doha, Reuters - Jun 20 2017"


NO ONE believes our FBI anymore other than CNN and U.S. MSM.

Even Qatar doesn't buy into the Russian Hacker narrative yet they pillory Trump for not accepting it as a fact like the Earth is the center of the universe as Galileo was forced to do.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Jul 7, 2017 10:15:30 AM | 61

14.05.2017 International Cyber Attack: Roots Traced to US National Security Agency

Over 45,000 ransomware attacks have been tracked in large-scale attacks across Europe and Asia — particularly Russia and China — as well as attacks in the US and South America. There are reports of infections in 99 countries. A string of ransomware attacks appears to have started in the United Kingdom, Spain and the rest of Europe, before striking Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines on May 12. According to Kaspersky Laboratory, Russia, Ukraine, India and Taiwan were hit hardest.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/05/14/international-cyber-attack-roots-traced-us-national-security-agency.html

Posted by: Brian | Jul 7, 2017 10:20:49 AM | 62

Margarita Semonyan of RT actually presented that picture of "little Omran" before the leaders of China and Russia together

Regarding Omran (aka Aleppo boy), in the CNN story they claimed that 'his brother' died in the bombing attack and that he had suffered permanent hearing loss. I have already heard that his parents are Assad supporters but did anyone verify if Omran had a brother, one who was killed in the attack or is this fiction as well? I always had the sense that the White Helmets knew they blundered because Omran, while dirty, didn't look all that hurt.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Jul 7, 2017 10:23:01 AM | 63

More idiocy from the US:
News: US appoints ex-NATO envoy to handle Ukraine crisis

Posted by: Rq | Jul 7, 2017 11:16:27 AM | 64

The BBC's John Humphrys has a reputation as an aggressive questioner who holds the feet of politicians to the fire, but even that is fake. It is all style and no substance: https://off-guardian.org/2017/07/07/our-media-are-not-fit-for-purpose/

Posted by: Shakesvshav | Jul 7, 2017 11:22:22 AM | 65

@66 Here is a link to the Volker appointment. McCain Institute, Russian invasion etc....the details give a good idea of his position.

https://www.rt.com/news/395604-us-ukraine-crisis-envoy/

Posted by: dh | Jul 7, 2017 11:35:34 AM | 66

Great article! Thanks:)

Posted by: relament | Jul 7, 2017 11:43:44 AM | 67

The Russia ‘hacking’ (what, where, how, to what purpose?) scandal, as well as the Russian interference in US elections (how?) is a leap into prop. and paranoid madness 2 notches beyond the accepted usual. Saddam having WMD is practically rational in comparison. Heh, he might have had some hidden in a cellar.. ;)

Seems to serve several purposes at once: 1. provide some kind of scapegoat for the Dem loss, concentrate on an outside enemy, as Dems + Reps manage part of the PTB together .. at some point one can’t blame the ‘oppo, other party’, some other *villain* must enter stage left, from far away. See e.g. the fake news flap, engineered to prevent the grip of pizzagate.

2. Monopolise the news, the discourse, the pols, everyone, to draw attention away from other germane matters, scotch analysis, as - tah rah! - the ultimate most dangerous enemy is hidden, shady, lurking! Mystery and suspense - what will happen next, be on your guard and follow our briefs! —- > Meanwhile don’t worry about your life / job, love tennis conquer superb sexy Alicia buy shares embrace Mom grow muscles eat green respect the church… so this Russia BS is also ‘trivial’, a side-issue… (this contradiction i won't explain for the mo.)

3. get Dem supporters (bigger spenders / followers of MSM etc.) to click, consume what they like to hear. This blatant commercial move is also a ‘dumbing down’ one, or perhaps even an excuse to ‘engineer’ perceptions.

4. Attacking, or pretending to prepare for attack, or dissing, etc. Russia, is part of a loong history of Russia/USSR-US relations. Right now it seems to be shunted to a virtual plane (hacking) as in fact the US is has no viable conquer plans, it is powerless facing Russia, so the sour grapes shrieks spillover into lunatic bitterness.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 7, 2017 11:55:12 AM | 68

The LINK in my comment # 28, was changed for some unknown reason and I discovered it also happened in the same comment I made on another site so here is the ORIGINAL link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5psOPuDI0c

My apologies to anyone who tried the link only to discover it was unrelated to my subject.

Damn those Gremlins :-)

Posted by: Freespirit | Jul 7, 2017 12:00:23 PM | 69

An addition to the Update -- recent major news media articles about Russian Hacking

WaPo: "Here’s the public evidence that supports the idea that Russia interfered in the 2016 election" by Philip Bump, July 6.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/06/heres-the-public-evidence-that-supports-the-idea-that-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-election/

Posted by: Editor | Jul 7, 2017 12:09:42 PM | 70

Editor,

What addition?
Take that trash elsewhere, that article is just a repeat of all the fake-news we have heard past months.
The western media never cease to spread its disinformation, no coincidence that it occur when Trump having meetings with Putin.

Posted by: Anon | Jul 7, 2017 12:20:25 PM | 71

Zerohedge.com is asking an important question today:

'Why won't the DNC release its proof of Russian hacking to Robert Mueller, if it has it?' They aren't. They are stonewalling him. The exact opposite of what you and I would do.

Stands to reason that they'd want to get this thing wrapped up and install the new president ASAP, dont'cha think?

So, why the Seth Rich won't you do it, DNC???

Posted by: JSonofa | Jul 7, 2017 1:06:59 PM | 72

WaPo: "Here’s the public evidence that supports the idea that Russia interfered in the 2016 election" by Philip Bump, July 6.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/06/heres-the-public-evidence-that-supports-the-idea-that-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-election/


@editor (b?), just when I want to say it was the Russians and move on, I have to read a summary like this and be reminded about how thin the evidence is. They guy even messed up one of the bullet points, with 'the FBI, CIA, and NSA agreed with a high degree of confidence that Putin tried to get Trump elected [paraphrasing]'. Uh ... no. The NSA rated it 'moderate' not 'high' level of confidence.

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Jul 7, 2017 3:37:31 PM | 73

@42 The US gov't did pay a little blood money but they never even considered an apology ("Are you comparing the value American life to the value of Iranian life? You sicko!"). To top it off, shortly after that, Admiral Moorer (then the naval chief of staff) admitted on "Nightline" that the American vessel was on a spy mission inside Iranian waters at the time of the incident. And the captain of the Vincennes - who ordered the firing of the missiles - was decorated for his "bravery" in slaughtering all those civilians.

Posted by: Njal | Jul 7, 2017 5:11:14 PM | 74

Grieved, Curtis - check this out:

CNN Hired Top al-Qaeda Propagandist for Award-Winning Syria Documentary and Wants to Cover Its Tracks

Posted by: ProPeace | Jul 7, 2017 10:02:32 PM | 75

US government hackers ‘penetrate’ Russian electric grid and communication lines to be ‘ready’ in case of election day interference
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-government-military-hackers-dnc-homeland-security-nsa-clinton-election-day-a7398881.html

Obama administration asks CIA to prepare revenge cyber attack against Russia
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/obama-us-government-cia-cyber-attack-against-russia-retaliation-hacking-fancy-bears-a7363321.html

Posted by: Pter | Jul 7, 2017 11:33:56 PM | 76

Bernie Sanders the stupid sell out wants to sell Russia-did it too.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/07/07/sanders-offers-trump-3-point-agenda-g20-summit-putin-meeting

Posted by: Anoynous | Jul 8, 2017 2:26:01 PM | 77

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