Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 20, 2017

Saudi Arabia - Bin Salman's Coup Is A Model For His Own Ouster

Someone wanted the public to know that the new Saudi clown prince Mohammed Bin Salman (MbS) took up his new position by unceremoniously disposing his predecessor Mohammed bin Nayef (MbN) by force. The juicy details, true or not, were briefed to Reuters, the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times on the same day:

As next in line to be king of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Nayef was unaccustomed to being told what to do. Then, one night in June, he was summoned to a palace in Mecca, held against his will and pressured for hours to give up his claim to the throne.

By dawn, he had given in, and Saudi Arabia woke to the news that it had a new crown prince: the king’s 31-year-old son, Mohammed bin Salman.

Bin Nayef was a darling of the CIA and his disposal was not welcome. It may well be that the author of the tale of his ouster has his office in Langley, Virginia.

We had correctly called the MbN removal a coup and predicted that "the old al-Saud family king [..] will be offed soon." From the current Reuters piece:

Quoting a witness at the palace, one Saudi source said King Salman this month pre-recorded a statement in which he announces the transfer of the throne to his son. The announcement could be broadcast at any time, perhaps as soon as September.

We also wrote that "[m]any Arab peninsula citizens will want to see [the new clown prince's] head on a pike."

The details of how MbS deposed the previous crown prince MbN will enrage additional parts of Saudi Arabia's population. Additional leaks about extensive MbS contacts with Israel will increase the bad feelings against him. This especially as Israeli is further encroaching on the al-Haram a-Sharif and the Al-Aqsa mosque on the (likely falsely) claimed Jewish temple mount.

MbS' attempt to push Qatar around has, as predicted, failed. The four countries that had joined against Qatar could not agree to increase the pressure. The demands made to Qatar have now been retracted. This is a huge loss of face for MbS and his Emirati mentor Mohammad bin Zayed. The Saudi war against Yemen kills many civilians and costs billions of dollars but is militarily lost. The announced big economic reforms have made no progress. The Gulf Cooperation Council is defunct and may fall further apart.

Everything MbS has touched failed. His actions violate traditions and religious commandments. His coup has set an example that can now be used against himself. It would not be astonishing to see a revolt against Mohammed Bin Salman even before he is able to make himself king. The way he shifted MbN to the side broke all traditional rules. The example he set with the ouster of the former crown prince can now be used against himself.

UPDATE: Bin Salman is now consolidating all internal security organizations and functions under himself. The Interior Ministry, traditionally headed by the Nayef family branch, will be stripped of all significant powers. MbS is afraid. He knows that many forces, including the CIA, are now working against him. This attempt to coup-proof his rule is probably coming too late.

Posted by b on July 20, 2017 at 02:53 PM | Permalink

Comments

thanks b.. i really resent the war on yemen by this asshole in power.. i hope he is gone soon and for that matter - saudi arabia - israel - and all the rest of the rot contributing to de-stability in the mid east all go the way of the dodo bird..

Posted by: james | Jul 20, 2017 3:32:42 PM | 1

Pepe and b probably used similar sources since their articles are quite alike! http://www.atimes.com/article/coup-house-saud/

Relatedly, MBS may not be the primary instigator of the Qatar crisis according to this item, https://southfront.org/finally-know-really-behind-qatar-crisis/

Recently, several articles, including the one above, at Southfront were republications of items originating at a new--to me--site, other barflies may want to explore, http://theantimedia.org/

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 20, 2017 3:40:40 PM | 2

The Angry Arab alerts us to "Ben Hubbard's propaganda work for MBS," http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2017/07/nyts-ben-hubbards-propaganda-work-for.html

As'ad also goes off today at blatant propaganda published by The Economist regarding Hezbollah and its alleged involvement with drug trade--something Nasrallah condemns very mightily, http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2017/07/how-did-economist-documents-its.html

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 20, 2017 3:59:08 PM | 3

MbS smells the anger, tries to coup-proof his regime:
Saudi Arabia establishes new apparatus for state security

JEDDAH: Saudi Arabia created a new apparatus for state security in Royal Decrees issued Thursday.
The new body, State Security Presidency, will be cornered all matters related to state security and be overseen by the king.

...

all matters related to combating terrorism and financial investigations to be separated from the Ministry of Interior and added to the State Security Presidency.

Everything related to the Security Affairs Agency and other functions related to the Ministry of Interior tasks including employees (civil and military), budgets, documents and information are to be added to the State Security Presidency.

The (just newly installed) interior minister is said to be a friend of MbS but he is from the family of MbN and thereby a danger. Must be disarmed ...

Posted by: b | Jul 20, 2017 4:01:21 PM | 4

Sorry to monopolize the beginnings of this thread. At the end of his essay about events in Mosul, Craig Murray has this to say about Saudi:

"The other interesting silence is from Saudi Arabia, which poses as the defender of Sunni Islam throughout the world, but actually has no interest at all in it, except as a tool for promoting the much more worldly interests of the Saudi elite....

"For the Saudi elite, the money they pumped into ISIS in Iraq was a trifle; Mosul ISIL were pawns to be sacrificed and the Sunni civilian population of Mosul is no more important to them. By the combination of funding the spread of Wahhabi ideology and providing unlimited arms and organisational financing, the Saudis can pop up another Al Qaida, Al Nusra or ISIL more or less anywhere, any time it seems useful. Meantime they are focused on cementing their burgeoning axis of Saudi Arabia/Israel/USA to continue the violent promotion of Saudi regional ambition." https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/07/mosul-worse-srebrenica/

It now appears the Unipolarists are reduced to just 4 nations: Outlaw US Empire, UK, Zionist Occupied Palestine, and Saudi Arabia. If Corbyn can become UK's PM, then that number might get reduced to 3.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jul 20, 2017 4:16:03 PM | 5

B: I think your last sentence is key. Some grown-ups, in the US and in the Gulf, leaked this because they want to prevent current crown prince of becoming King, and hope to see him replaced as future king before Salman bites the bullet.
I mean, Mohammed BS has shown how bad he is at managing slightly complex crises, be it Yemen, current jihadi setbacks in Syria, or Qatar - the latter being the biggest indictment I suppose, considering the long-term consequences. So, some smarter people want to push him out before he can become king and weaken the Saudi kingdom to the breaking point.
Not sure what was meant by that, though: "on the (likely falsely) claimed Jewish temple mount"

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jul 20, 2017 4:31:55 PM | 6

CV Locations should be watched closely: CVN-77 George H.W. Bush 05Jul-18Jul2017, Med

Also, I believe this 2015 article is worth reminding: The secret projects of Israël and Saudi Arabia


...According to our information, for the last 17 months (in other words, since the announcement of the negotiations between Washington and Teheran, which have in fact been proceeding for the last 27 months), Tel-Aviv has been engaged in secret negotiations with Saudi Arabia. Extremely high-level delegations have met five times – in India, Italy and the Czech Republic.

The cooperation between Tel-Aviv and Riyadh is part of the US plan to create a « Common Arab Defence Force », under the auspices of the Arab League, but under Israeli command. This « Force » is already effective in Yemen, where Israeli pilots fly Saudi bombers within the framework of an Arab Coalition whose headquarters have been installed by the Israelis in Somaliland, a non-recognised state situated on the other side of the the Bab el-Mandeb straits [1].

However, Riyadh does not intend to officialise this cooperation as long as Tel-Aviv refuses the Arab Peace Initiative, presented to the Arab League in 2002 by Prince Abdullah before he became king [2].

Israël and Saudi Arabia have reached agreement on several objectives.

On the political level :

- To « democratise » the Gulf States, in other words, to associate the people in the management of their countries, while affirming the intangibility of the the monarchy and the Wahhabite way of life ; To change the political system in Iran (and no longer wage war on Iran) ;

- To create an independent Kurdistan in such a way as to weaken Iran, Turkey (despite the fact that it is a long-standing ally of Israël), and Iraq (but not Syria, which is already seriously weakened).

On the economic level :

- To exploit the Rub’al-Khali oil-fields and organise a federation between Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and perhaps Oman and the United Arab Emirates ;

- To exploit the Ogaden oil-fields, under Ethiopian control, secure the Yemeni port of Aden, and build a bridge linking Djibouti and Yemen.

In other words, while Tel-Aviv and Riyadh are making the best of a bad deal, and accepting that two thirds of Iraq, Syria, and half of Lebanon will be controlled by Iran, they intend :

- To ensure that Iran gives up on the exportation of its revolution ;

- To control the rest of the region by excluding Turkey, which took over from Saudi Arabia in the supervision of international terrorism, and has just lost in Syria...

Posted by: ProPeace | Jul 20, 2017 4:40:24 PM | 7

Do not underestimate the power of the religious autorities. When I was there (admittedly many, many years ago), the monarchy was very careful to always have their agreement for any policy change. Even now with the strict laws governing behaviour (ie. Women, TV and prayers) their impact on ordinary Saudi society apparently hasn't changed much. It may have even got worse.

So the Clown prince's closer ties with Israel - are going to be under close scrutiny. Particularly if Netanyhu continues with the "isolation" and alienation of the Al-Aqsa mosque. Note that the numbers of people hurt in IDF actions against demonstrators has been totally under-reported, if at all. (reported 70 the first day and 35 another. Those wounded include an Imam.)
This is going to pose an ethical problem for ALL the Gulf states. They will have to be seen doing something to retain credibility.

On a jovial note; The traditional way, if the reigning Leader did not hand down part of the money to the other tribesmen according to tradition - was to slit his throat. (The King gets it all, then hands down part of it to Princes, who then hand down part of what they recieved to tribesmen and so on right to the bottom. (widows in the Souk with no family). When there is a lot this works fine. I do not know if this will work when there is less to go round.)

Posted by: stonebird | Jul 20, 2017 4:53:03 PM | 8

Israel is upping the ante in Syria.

"Israel is going to build a new fill hospital in the Israeli-occupied part of the Golan Heights in Syria. According to the Lieutenant Colonel Tomer Koler, the hopsital will be located on the Syrian side of the fence build by Israel in the Golan Heights and may become operational next month."

https://southfront.org/israel-build-new-field-hospital-treat-syrian-militants/

Up to now the IDF has treated its terrorists in Israel proper. Now it seems that even Israel is invading Syria. The extra land grab has started.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 20, 2017 6:12:01 PM | 9

#2 karlof1

That's an interesting news site, just bookmarked it into my reading - thanks for the link: Anti Media. At first look, they seem to be doing a nice job, and they definitely don't like corporate media.

They have a good resource in their foreign affairs writer, Darius Shahtahmasebi - where the Qatar story came from and I'd guess also those other Southfront stories you mentioned. He connects dots well, and cites sources, that's all very useful.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 20, 2017 9:34:49 PM | 10

on the al-Haram a-Sharif and the Al-Aqsa mosque on the (likely falsely) claimed Jewish temple mount
That's silly, b. Of course the Haram is the same site as Herod's temple. That was proven long ago, it's always been known. It doesn't mean that the nutters have the right to recover a site that was abandoned by the Jews nearly two millennia ago.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 20, 2017 10:42:09 PM | 11

Do I have this right:
The CIA planned to unseat the House of Saud in a coup.
The Saudi gang got wind and pleaded for their survival.
The CIA agreed, providing that their asset Mohammed bin Nayef was made heir-apparent.
The Saudi's agreed, making Mohammed bin Nayef the heir-apparent.
The CIA then laid off in the knowledge that Saudi Arabia will eventually be in their pocket.

All squared-up and everyone happy - at which point the Saudi's reneged on the deal by replacing Nayef with Salman.

Correct?

Colour me sceptical, but if that was the sequence of events then nobody would be in any doubt about What Happens Next.

As in: the CIA dust off their coup plans and move against the House of Saud.

Not just launch a coup against MBS, but (in Apocalypse Now-fashion terminology) Eliminate Him With Extreme Prejudice.

If that doesn't happen then the story is make-believe, because the CIA ain't the sort of place that just shrugs the shoulders when it gets played for a fool.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jul 21, 2017 12:58:28 AM | 12

@ Yeah, Right for the thoughts about the game afoot.

Thanks for that. I have been puzzling out the evident power struggle going on with the world elite and agree that the CIA is in the middle of it all......working for both sides I suspect.....who knows anymore who the real power brokers are and I think it is planned so that is so.

Where is my damn time machine so I can spurt 5-10 years into the future and see how this evolves............

Coup or not in Saudi Arabia, the general public is not benefitting by these elite struggles and humanity is getting closer to hitting the wall of (take your pick - resource depletion, climate change, nuclear pollution/war, etc.) I can hear the idiots in the back rooms now telling the elite how a good war will take the public's mind off all their emergent problems......sigh

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 21, 2017 2:02:46 AM | 13

i think the problem with saudi arabia falling apart is it is a big problem with the usa and israel on important levels.. in the war of terror they are responsible on the planet, the headchopping cult of saudi arabia would be a loss.. i guess they can replace it with something else, but i can't think of that many backward intolerant places where they would be able to find as many recruits that are treated much like they belong and come from the medieval era.. i suppose anyone indoctrinated into whabbism qualifies, as does anyone who comes from the rabid right wing ideologies of christianity and judaism.. on 2nd thought, i guess there are a lot of potential recruits, but i mostly think of this isis-al qaeda - saudi and gcc crowd as particularly prone to headchopping.. seems to be in their long running culture..

Posted by: james | Jul 21, 2017 2:57:45 AM | 14

I have heard talk of a transfer of power to MBS as early as on of before the 24th of July when King Salman is due to take a trip to Morocco. The trip was scheduled to start today, but has been delayed.

It is interesting that the whole security apparatus, with its various sub branches and agencies that were normally attached to the interior ministry was moved and is now under the command of the Saudi prime minister- ie the Saudi King. this announcement was done by Royal Decree last night. This has been done just in time so that the new King (MBS) will have an even stronger grip on the Kingdoms' security apparatus. It is interesting that the interior ministry was under "Mohammed bin Nayef" and is now under his brother/ half brother, but has been totally neutered.

The only other major security apparatus outside the control of MBS is the National Guard- talk is that Mutib (former King Abdullah son) will also be deposed or that his personality is otherwise too weak to stand in the way on MBS.

Posted by: Hayder | Jul 21, 2017 4:24:28 AM | 15

Laguerre @ 11

b knows what he is talking about re the real site of the Jerusalem temple. As Jesus had prophesied, there was no brick in Jerusalem left on another. The Romans destroyed it totally, except their own fort. Half a millennium later Mohammed experienced his 'ascent to heaven' at the fort site, perhaos thinking it was the site of the Jerusalem temple. That is a kilometre or so away, marked by the presence of a famous spring. Anyone interested in pursuing the topic can start with the query "real site of the Jerusalem temple" on duckduckgo.com.

Posted by: sarz | Jul 21, 2017 4:50:56 AM | 16

To think that on some backgrounds "a darling of the CIA" may seem a god guy, my, my...

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 21, 2017 5:26:52 AM | 17

gOOd guy

Posted by: Arioch | Jul 21, 2017 5:27:08 AM | 18

. i guess they can replace it with something else, but i can't think of that many backward intolerant places where they would be able to find as many recruits . . . . from the medieval era.

Posted by: james | Jul 21, 2017 2:57:45 AM | 14

sounds like a perfect description of the population of illegal Jewish colonies on stolen Palestinian land.

Perhaps an alternative source of recruitment?

Posted by: Just Sayin' | Jul 21, 2017 5:29:38 AM | 19

re 16. I don't want to pursue the matter but what you're saying is complete nonsense. There's lots of the temple enclosure left, all the substructure of the limestone platform on which the now disappeared temple was built - that is, the Wailing Wall is the western side, but there's a lot of masonry on the south and east sides. Jerusalem is very hilly, so they had to build an artificial platform to level the site.

Yeah, I think the nutjobs in Israel will one day try to take it back. They've been scheming since 1967, but haven't got too far, as the governments of the day in Israel haven't been willing to take the ultimate step. But as there's not much difference between the whacko nutjobs in the settlements and the top politicos round Netanyahu, it's not going to take a lot to go for the apocalyptic step.

The Jews, who occupied the site for less than a century two millennia ago, of course, don't have that much of a real claim compared to the more than 1300 years the Muslims have been there.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 21, 2017 5:41:31 AM | 20

My apologies if I am repeating myself, and for the lack of citation. This "news" item and the recent report of the arrest of the princeling for beating people in the street bring up an article I read years ago (that I can not find anywhere. I've looked. Really.). It seems that begetting dozens of sons by dozens of wives over a few generations created a very extensive and somewhat muddled line of succession. There is an endless supply of extremely greedy, overly pampered heirs.
The premise being when the money started getting tight, at least by Saudi standards, the sword swinging would start. Remember the announcement some months ago about certain austerity measures in KSA? (I think they might have been withdrawn.). Around that time some royal head was separated from its body. When these guys start fighting each other over the table scraps, the dirty plates may be solid gold but they exemplify the sense of entitlement. The resources available, the increasing desperation and levels of greed, all combine to create the potential for a truly spectacular family feud, with some danger for anyone in sword swinging range, given the modern swords available. The beginning of the end for the "family with a flag"? Could not happen to nicer people.

Posted by: NotBob | Jul 21, 2017 8:14:42 AM | 21

Erm ... a word to the wise ... you don't want to call him Bin Salman. If there's no ambiguity, you should just use Prince Mohammed. Obviously, in the context of a discussion involving MbS and Prince Mohammed bin Nayef you need to differentiate, so it would have to be Mohammed bin Salman (or MbS).

You know what saying 'Bin Salman' sounds like? Remember that episode in one of the later series of The Sopranos, where Christopher goes to Hollywood to sell a script he had written? He goes to a party with all kinds of movers and shakers, where he meets Sir Ben Kingsley ... and he calls him Sir Kingsley. OUCH! CRINGE! YOU MORON!

Same same Bin Salman.

Posted by: Henry Larsen | Jul 21, 2017 8:37:22 AM | 22

Actually Bin Salman is OK as an abbreviation, if rather ugly, if it is necessary to distinguish him from the other Muhammad, bin Nayif. Nobody minded about Bin Ladin, why should they mind about Bin Salman?

Posted by: Laguerre | Jul 21, 2017 10:11:54 AM | 23

Who is 'Angry Arab'?

Posted by: Christian Chuba | Jul 21, 2017 10:53:46 AM | 24

the CIA sock puppet replaced by a Pentagon one.

Posted by: heath | Jul 21, 2017 11:32:57 AM | 25

" This « Force » is already effective in Yemen, where Israeli pilots fly Saudi bombers within the framework of an Arab Coalition "

Sources, any proof of this?

Posted by: anondooronron | Jul 21, 2017 12:12:08 PM | 26

@anondooronron | Jul 21, 2017 12:12:08 VN's own sources, among the best out there.

@all Te noose's tightening:

Britain’s Labour Party joins 9/11 survivors in demanding Theresa May release suppressed Saudi Arabia terrorism report

And btw what about many Israeli F16 moved to Saudi Barbaria ?

Posted by: ProPeace | Jul 21, 2017 12:56:38 PM | 27

@19 just sayin' - most definitely!

on the topic of what is in jerusalem and some of the history around this '''holy'' or unholy city, i read an interesting article last week off a site someone posted by an egyptian scholar basically saying the history was relocated from yemen to jerusalem.. if you are interested read this article..

Posted by: james | Jul 21, 2017 1:12:15 PM | 28

(like james, the war on Yemen, words fail me..)

KSA has many problems, they are all getting worse and steaming to a head. In a rentier economy with no seats of power besides the oiligarchic (heh an appropriate typo) ‘royal’ family rule, morevoer a very hiearchical one (not rule by committee or tech council), when things go south, blame and accusations fly, the status quo is disrupted. The struggle takes place in the top circles, with all the hangers-on (maybe 40,000 in all or so, just guessing) remaining quiet, neutral -submissive!- not taking sides, as sometimes happens in other situations..

Result = a hot-house fight at the very top, between very few figures / forces, like a TV ‘e-reality’ show or a play of old, where characters portray various stances, etc. In such jousts, it is often the extremist, the most radical, the most extravagant, convincing, who prevails as all or most of the few participants feel the need for action but don’t know why what how to propose, do.

Their potential ideas of do no harm / wait and see / prefer status quo / hold back / negotiate / steal money from x / manipulate y / kill just z / etc. not only sound weak ’n stupid but appear to delay the inevitable losses by missing opportunities that will never present again.

Exactly what role Trump has played (war > Yemen pre-dates) heh with the glowing orbs and sword-dances and Qatar an MB supporter idk, — He certainly stirred the pot, and made the whole show more volatile. Speculation in diff. directions is possible; maybe nobody knows what is going on exactly, as all parties act on impulse without worked out achievable goals to be negotiated, etc.

Continuity Pix. Ibn Saud - Roosevelt

http://www.ouramazingworld.org/uploads/4/3/8/6/43860587/vol38_issue2_2005.pdf

Fahd - Nixon + Kissinger.

https://www.corbettreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/kissinger-saudi.jpg

to >> Prince Abdullah - G.W. Bush

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/34/24/42/7424171/3/rawImage.jpg

>> Trump with the orbs.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 21, 2017 3:15:38 PM | 29

@29 noirette.. thanks for the pics, lol.. i like the pdf the best as he helps inform some of the history at work...

i like what you say here " Speculation in diff. directions is possible; maybe nobody knows what is going on exactly, as all parties act on impulse without worked out achievable goals to be negotiated, etc. " that is how i see it too... world in flux with no certain outcome available at this time.

and on a previous thread i noticed you responded to my comment on macron.. the guy is really a loser... it is too bad france has him as the new leader in chief... he is likely to rubber stamp the same stupidity all the other french leaders of the past have.. nice looking guy, pretty face, in an expensive suit... image is everything and substance - obviously counts for nothing..

Posted by: james | Jul 21, 2017 3:23:01 PM | 30

...
Speculation in diff. directions is possible; maybe nobody knows what is going on exactly, as all parties act on impulse without worked out achievable goals to be negotiated, etc.
...
Posted by: Noirette | Jul 21, 2017 3:15:38 PM | 29

With due respect, you've never occupied a senior management position in a commercial outfit, have you? Had you done so, you would KNOW that if the part of the business for which you are accountable suffers a costly competitive "surprise" you are out on the street, in disgrace.
A CEO who can't anticipate EVERYTHING doesn't last long. Trump LOVES all that crap, and LOVE is putting it mildly. He's spent his entire career in dog-eat-dog World winning. He's even turned several defeats into victories. There are no tricks/stunts that Trump hasn't overcome, heard of, or planned for. Not one.
No offense intended.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 21, 2017 4:02:36 PM | 31

@31 hoarsewhisperer.. with due respect as well, do you believe a commercial outfit is one and the same as multiple gov'ts adjusting as necessary?

Posted by: james | Jul 21, 2017 4:54:45 PM | 32

Posted by: james | Jul 21, 2017 4:54:45 PM | 32

No offense taken:-)
Forgive me, but I'm not sure what you're asking, however my definition of a commercial outfit is one whose entire existence is justified to its shareholders/investors, at least once per year, by its Profit Before Interest and Tax (PBIT).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 21, 2017 6:41:14 PM | 33

With due respect, you've never occupied a senior management position in a commercial outfit, have you? Hoarse at 31.

No. Or only once but doesn't count as 'senior' despite title as I err mostly! ... just followed what was laid down by others (similar to a franchise. Fun times.) I agree that Trump loves the calculation part of it; most or all of my posts about him have taken into account his biz past, I keep stressing that. However the likes of Erdogan and Mohammed bin Salman (+ others) are perhaps easy to dominate in the sense of convince, coerce, influence.. temporarily or on one issue, they are not using the types of calculations used in commerce. They have far more power thus hubris and scope for mad -or seemingly mad- flamboyance, actions, as there is an overt assumption of invulnerability (if these characters believe in that or not idk and it doesn't matter.)

To add, Trump's difficulties are more of the 'at home' type than the foreign policy type, in the sense that potential downfall, risk, danger, won't be coming from KSA, Russia, Iran, Israel, foreign agents, etc. All the world knows that Dems / Reps swap wars with the old being 'bad' and the new being 'good' that is just the routine.

Not directly related though one might make a case...Here is Trump snubbing Trudeau at G20. That Trudeau is one scary guy imho.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRzvL0Txa1k

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 22, 2017 11:54:44 AM | 34

@33 hoarsewhisperer - i would trying to better understand where you were coming from in your question to noirette @31..

@34 noirette quote " That Trudeau is one scary guy imho." is that based on watching and listening to the verbage in that video that you say that?

Posted by: james | Jul 22, 2017 12:59:10 PM | 35

would - was...

Posted by: james | Jul 22, 2017 12:59:28 PM | 36

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 22, 2017 11:54:44 AM | 34

Thanks for taking my rant in the spirit intended, and for interpreting it so precisely.
Interestingly, in this part of your response, you've drawn a speculative conclusion which hadn't occurred to me beyond the Trump/ required-infallibility of successful CEOs case...

"However the likes of Erdogan and Mohammed bin Salman (+ others) are perhaps easy to dominate in the sense of convince, coerce, influence.. temporarily or on one issue, they are not using the types of calculations used in commerce. They have far more power thus hubris and scope for mad -or seemingly mad- flamboyance, actions, as there is an overt assumption of invulnerability (if these characters believe in that or not idk and it doesn't matter.)"

You might be onto something there.
Maybe the 'power + vulnerability' environment in which (carefully selected) BizWorld CEOs operate is better preparation for treating power with respect and caution than just dumping executive power in the lap of a leadership novice and hoping for the best?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 22, 2017 3:45:49 PM | 37

add my #37.

Trudeau. I don't have an opinion about Trudeau but Xymphora shares your view. He also thinks Canada's National Post(?) is the World's Worst Newspaper, which at least gives Canadian Politics some symmetry...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 22, 2017 3:58:17 PM | 38

@35, @38 re:Trudeau

Being the leader of the first "post-nation state" must be really tough. That would make him the leader of what? Does a post-nation (non-nation?) even need a leader? What or who is being led?

Maybe I am asking vacuous questions about a vacuous statement (from a seemingly vacuous man).

Posted by: NotBob | Jul 22, 2017 5:01:51 PM | 39

Interesting news about Israel's war against Syria:

Israel’s position: the supply of any aid and food falls within the definition of “humanitarian”


... More recently, the Mossad has tried to create a Druze uprising against the Syrian Arab Republic modelled on what the United States and France have achieved with the Kurds in the North of the country. The Syrian Major Khaldoun Zeineddine had suddenly demanded the creation of a “Druzistan” at the Israeli border. But, after three months of uncertainty, all the Syrian leaders who are Druzes, have reaffirmed their support for the Republic. This is despite appeals to secession by the Lebanon pro-US Druze leader, Walid Jumblatt.

The “humanitarian” aid that Tsahal is boasting about does not fall within international humanitarian law, as defined by Henri Dunant, who established the Red Cross. This is because the aid only benefits one party to the combat. So for example, all beneficiaries of the Israeli aid are jihadists belonging to al-Qaeda and their families.

Another example is that delivering tonnes of flour is not useful because this product is available anywhere in the country at a price subsidized by the Republic. However, where jihadists control certain territories, then the flow of aid is stopped. In delivering flour, Tsahal only allows the jihadists to cross from Damascus and to strengthen their power over the populations.

This is exactly how Tsahal helped the Kosovan militias, during the war against Serbia. The infants that it had brought to Israel to care for, subsequently joined the Tel Aviv secret services.

Posted by: ProPeace | Jul 22, 2017 8:59:43 PM | 40

Oh! This article has suggested to me many new ideas. I will embark on doing it. Hope you can continue to contribute your talents in this area. Thank you.
stickman , bouncing balls , the impossible game

Posted by: stickman | Aug 16, 2017 5:15:27 AM | 41

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