Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 04, 2017

How Anand Gopal Directed People To Join ISIS And Shills For "Regime Change" In Syria

Anand Gopal built his career as a writer with on the ground reporting from Afghanistan where he embedded with the Taliban. He gave some insight into their motivations.

Anand Gopal is now a shill for the U.S. "regime change" crimes in Syria. He is also attempting to justify the existence and crimes of ISIS by attributing those to a "legit" motivation. That is a convenient excuse for those who join ISIS.

People joined ISIS because of the "sheer brutality of the Assad regime" Gopal asserts. They joined ISIS in Iraq, in Libya, in Mali and Afghanistan for the "sheer brutality of the Assad regime"? They blew themselves up in Paris, London and elsewhere for the "sheer brutality of the Assad regime"? That claim is obviously not only simplistic but utter nonsense.

There is however reason to believe that people joined ISIS in Syria is because the "western" media hyped ISIS by promulgating its propaganda, found excuses for its crimes and because Anand Gopal directed them [*see update below] to advice on how to travel to Syria to join ISIS:

bigger

In his recent interview with Democracy Now Gopal makes several assertions that are completely contradicted by the public and historic record and are thus evidently lies:

ANAND GOPAL: Well, I think it’s important to understand that there’s no regime change policy from the United States toward Syria. And there never has been a regime change policy. The Obama administration said, innumerous times, Assad must go.

The U.S. demanding that a head of a foreign state "must go" is not "regime change"? Actively supporting a violent insurgency against the government of a state with the aim of changing that government is not "regime change" policy? Giving billions of dollars and tens of thousands tons of weapons to sectarian brutes who strive to overthrow a government is not a "regime change" policy?

In fact the U.S. conducted "regime change" operations in Syria in 1947, 1956, 1957, in the 1970s, 1986, 1991 and again since 2006. There are many verified, original sources and documents publicly available to attest to that.

Various major think tanks, U.S. policy papers and U.S. politicians have called the U.S. policy in Syria exactly that - "regime change".

Hillary Clinton's State Department emails explicitly named the aim of the policy: to "overthrow the regime", and the main purpose: to "help Israel deal with Iran":

UNCLASSIFIED U.S. Department of State Case No. F-2014-20439 Doc No. C05794498 Date: 11/30/2015 RELEASE IN FULL The best way to help Israel deal with Iran's growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.
...
a successful intervention in Syria would require substantial diplomatic and military leadership from the United States. Washington should start by expressing its willingness to work with regional allies like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar to organize, train and arm Syrian rebel forces. The announcement of such a decision would, by itself, likely cause substantial defections from the Syrian military. Then, using territory in Turkey and possibly Jordan, U.S. diplomats and Pentagon officials can start strengthening the opposition. It will take time. But the rebellion is going to go on for a long time, with or without U.S. involvement.

Syrian "revolutionaries" have documented how then U.S. Ambassador Ford promised them "regime change" when he instigated the insurgency.

It was the Obama administration which followed the Bush administration in pursuing regime change in Syria. Here now is the Trump administration which does not mince its words:

Gopal is daft, or a lying piece of shit, when he claims that the U.S. did not and does not pursue "regime change" in Syria. Does Anand Gopal really believe that the bombing of Syrian Army positions and infrastructure is just ‘After-Dinner Entertainment’ at Mar-a-Lago, not an active "regime change" policy?

Further into the interview Gopal openly lies about ISIS, its origin and its fighting with the Syrian government:

[ANAND GOPAL:] The regime does not fight terrorism. It’s actually the single biggest cause of terrorism in Syria. It is the cause of ISIS in Syria. And from—if you talk to Syrians, Bashar al-Assad and the regime is the biggest terrorist in the country. The force that’s actually fighting ISIS, which I assume is what he’s referring to, is the YPG, which is backed by the United States.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Can you explain what you mean by that, that the cause of ISIS or what gave birth to ISIS in Syria is in fact the Assad regime? Because that’s not what’s commonly understood.
...
NERMEEN SHAIKH: And is it your sense that ISIS’s power or control over Syria is weakening?

ANAND GOPAL: It’s absolutely weakening—again, not because of the Assad regime, but in spite of the Assad regime. It’s weakening because—for the most part, because of the YPG.

ISIS in Syria was not "caused" by the Syrian government. The US fueled the rise of Isis in Syria and Iraq.

It is the U.S. that created ISIS with its invasion in Iraq:

The Islamic State – also known as ISIS, ISIL, or Daesh – emerged from the remnants of al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), a local offshoot of al Qaeda founded by Abu Musab al Zarqawi in 2004. It faded into obscurity for several years after the surge of U.S. troops to Iraq in 2007. But it began to reemerge in 2011. Over the next few years, it took advantage of growing instability in Iraq and Syria to carry out attacks and bolster its ranks.

To create a "Salafist principality", an Islamic State, in eastern Syria was, according to the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency:

EXACTLY WHAT THE SUPPORTING POWERS TO THE OPPOSITION WANT, IN ORDER TO ISOLATE THE SYRIAN REGIME

It is the U.S. that enabled ISIS to grow in Iraq and to then go to and grow in Syria. Obama himself explained that he let ISIS grow in Iraq to "regime change" the Maliki government in Iraq:

The reason, the president added, “that we did not just start taking a bunch of airstrikes all across Iraq as soon as ISIL came in was because that would have taken the pressure off of [Prime Minister Nuri Kamal] al-Maliki.

Secretary of State Kerry himself explained that the Obama administration let ISIS grow in Syria to "regime change" the Assad government in Syria:

“And we know that this was growing. We were watching. We saw that Daesh was growing in strength, and we thought Assad was threatened. We thought, however, we could probably manage, that Assad would then negotiate.

The U.S. supported Free Syrian Army allied with ISIS (and al-Qaeda) and publicly lauded it (vid). The CIA, which finances the FSA, surely knew this.

The mass of ISIS fighters in Syria were not Syrian people who joined because of the "sheer brutality of the Assad regime" but foreigners lured to join ISIS by people like Anand Gopal:

Run by Iraqi jihadist Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) has up to 6,000 fighters in Iraq and 3,000-5,000 in Syria, including some 3,000 foreigners. The Economist reported that Isis is formed by a thousand jihadist from Chechnya and "perhaps 500 or more from France, Britain and elsewhere in Europe".

Gopal claims that the YPG/SDF, not the Syrian government, is the main group fighting ISIS in Syria. "Bullshit" says IHS Markit (formerly Janes), one of the premiere private military news services of this planet. ISIS in Syria mostly fought with, and was defeated by, the Syrian government. The YPG/SDF played a minor role:

Between 1 April 2016 and 31 March 2017, 43 percent of all Islamic State fighting in Syria was directed against President Assad’s forces, 17 against the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) and the remaining 40 percent involved fighting rival Sunni opposition groups -- in particular, those who formed part of the Turkey-backed Euphrates Shield coalition.
...
“We have seen Islamic State territorial losses accelerate significantly in 2017,” Strack said. “Their losses were largely driven by a greater commitment from the US to back the Syrian Democratic Forces, but also by major Syrian government advances east of Aleppo and around Palmyra.”

Not one of Anad Gopal's main claims in the Democracy Now interview is supported by the historic record. All are contradicted by original sources and serious analysis.

"Regime change" in Syria has been and is the declared policy of the U.S. government since 2006 and it continues to be the aim, even when it is, at times, not always openly promoted as such.

Gopal claims it was the Syrian government that caused people to join the Islamic State. Gopal's own (criminal) promotion of how to join ISIS contradicts his assertion.

h/t Syricide

Update [10:20am]: Anand Gopal has now deleted his March 21 2015 tweet. I made the screenshots above early this morning but the link to the tweet in question is now dead and a search no longer finds it.

Posted by b on May 4, 2017 at 02:01 AM | Permalink

Comments
next page »

Isn't Anad Gopal's tweet 'material support' of terrorism? Shouldn't he be in jail?

Posted by: WG | May 4, 2017 2:14:26 AM | 1

Yes, I saw that Amy Goodman interview of Gopal.
Outrageous distortion of the facts on the ground in Syria.
I was yelling at my computer screen.
Alas, Amy is likewise a supporter of the White Helmets; her credibility has dropped to zero for this one; rip Goodman...

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 4, 2017 2:58:13 AM | 2

a gink?

Apologies for the somewhat xenophobic connotations.

But my own Tamil associates - in their native lingo - calls cretins such as these "a smiling tiger" or "a five-headed snake".

Posted by: Yours Truly | May 4, 2017 3:00:53 AM | 3

I stopped listening to Amy Goodman and "Democracy Now" years ago. There have been several instances wherein this outfit has proven to be a deep disinformation outlet that targets "liberals". This apparent load of garbage is presumably just one more typical delivery. The "Democracy Now" conspiracy is surely well aware of the nature of this chap whom they have interviewed.

Here is a notion I find intriguing, although it may be an oversimplification: In our "culture" we have capitalist activists who are wont to indulge in financing disinformation operations directed toward the common people. However, you never hear of common people organizing to disinform the rich capitalists. Why is that?

Posted by: blues | May 4, 2017 3:31:33 AM | 4

blues | May 4, 2017 3:31:33 AM | 4

The white helmets nearly did it for me; but this Gopal crap is a deal breaker for sure.
Hell, DN was the last U.S. MSM I listened too...
Just as well; now they're all crap.

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 4, 2017 3:40:28 AM | 5

"Gopal is daft, or a lying piece of shit when he claims..."

Those two traits are not mutually exclusive. In fact ,if I had to bet,I'd go with the combo.

Posted by: Marko | May 4, 2017 3:41:11 AM | 6

If this was the first time amy goodman put on hit piece on Assad I would let it go but she has been shilling for the jihadist in Syria since 2011. She deserves to be called out on this even if some of her programming is pretty good.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 4, 2017 4:00:36 AM | 7

Former Ambassador to Syria Robert Ford is forced to come clean in this series of exchanges.
"Robert Ford was US Ambassador to Syria when the revolt against Syrian president Assad was launched. He not only was a chief architect of regime change in Syria, but actively worked with rebels to aid their overthrow of the Syrian government.

Ford assured us that those taking up arms to overthrow the Syrian government were simply moderates and democrats seeking to change Syria’s autocratic system. Anyone pointing out the obviously Islamist extremist nature of the rebellion and the foreign funding and backing for the jihadists was written off as an Assad apologist or worse.

Ambassador Ford talked himself blue in the face reassuring us that he was only supporting moderates in Syria. As evidence mounted that the recipients of the largesse doled out by Washington was going to jihadist groups, Ford finally admitted early last year that most of the moderates he backed were fighting alongside ISIS and al-Qaeda. Witness this incredible Twitter exchange with then-ex Ambassador Ford": http://www.globalresearch.ca/you-wont-believe-what-former-us-ambassador-robert-s-ford-said-about-al-qaedas-syrian-allies/5504906

Posted by: harrylaw | May 4, 2017 5:15:29 AM | 8

Gopal's step by step guide on how to get to Syria and join ISIS cannot be linked to in this article, could it be that this guide would fall foul of US Terrorist Material Support legislation: 18 U.S.C. §2339A and §2339B including advice or assistance?

Posted by: harrylaw | May 4, 2017 5:37:13 AM | 9

This is an incredibly important analysis.
Douglas Reed figured out the zionist game decades ago. Control both the government above and revolution below. Soros funded democracy now represents the revolution below.
There would be 0 reason for the US to be involved in Syria were it not for Zionist influence.
Makes me sick.

Posted by: flyod | May 4, 2017 8:00:47 AM | 10

@flyod - Zionist influence isn't the only issue for the U.S. - gas pipeline from Qatar through Syria to Europe would hit Russia hard. It is very much in U.S. imperial interest.

Posted by: b | May 4, 2017 8:43:05 AM | 11

blues
same same here. Not only stopped watching Amy fuckman, all Democrats and Larry King, Thom Hartmann, Joshua Landis, Medea Benjamin.....

The piece from Amy makes me vomit just couldn't take the massive lies about Dr. Assad and Syria.

Posted by: OJS | May 4, 2017 9:23:04 AM | 12

My, my. Such vitriol directed against Anand Gopal by the usually impassive owner of this website. In fact, when Gopal talked about the "cause" of ISIS in Syria, he was referring not to its origins but what led to its expansion. He is a much more reliable journalist than people like Tim Anderson and Paul Antonopoulos that you people rely on. As far as the origins of ISIS, Gopal makes it clear in this interview that it was the American invasion of Iraq that planted the seeds of ISIS: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/we-spoke-to-a-veteran-war-correspondent-about-the-origins-of-isis-822

Posted by: Louis Proyect | May 4, 2017 9:37:00 AM | 13

b, maybe OT, but you should watch "Tariq Ali and German sociologist Wolfgang Streeck discuss Germany’s position in Europe and how it evolved in the aftermath of the second World War via reunification up to the present day."

MoA maybe against Tariq Ali, (telesurtv) Wolfgang Streeck explained Germany before and today an insight the coming French President results between Marine Le Pen and Emmanuel Macron...

Global Empire - Germany: Past and Present. Tuesday 2 de may de 2017 | 16:10 hrs

https://videosenglish.telesurtv.net/video/657401/the-world-today-657401/

Posted by: OJS | May 4, 2017 9:40:02 AM | 14

We didn't engage in regime change in Libya, either. We just said that we just would not stop bombing the country into rubble until Ghadaffi was gone.

Posted by: Bill H | May 4, 2017 10:37:34 AM | 15

Louis Proyect - what a complete and utter wanker you are ...

... I guess ignoring Gopal's invokation and instructions on how to join ISIS in Syria is just all OK and hunky-dory then .,.,

Fucking IDIOT.

.

Posted by: Dennis Revell | May 4, 2017 10:42:04 AM | 16

Vice is spectacular distraction for hipsters. On occasion, such distraction will contain factual material, but the authors lack scientific training and lack also a general interest in an honest appreciation of the world. Distraction in itself is not all that appealing, so there is a quid pro quo---vice gives its viewers a superficial sense of being informed. The superficial sense of being informed has two benefits, to wit, it soothes the conscience of those subject to it (the vice watcher is taught that the rest of the world is a dysfunctional and strange mess, analysed with pat explanations, thus absolving the watcher of the responsibilities of an actual moral agent; the vice watcher is taught to know who to regard as moral agents, and who to regard as immoral and worthless agents, without serious self-evaluation, thus forestalling self-knowledge), and this superficiality gives a course of action to follow (repeat what is de facto state propaganda, though unannounced as such; abuse those that oppose the state propaganda), while foreclosing courses of action that may bring information to light that exists in opposition to vice, and hence governmental, narrative, and which may require actual effort, knowledge and scientific training, and its associated doubts. Thus vice is a propaganda engine that runs on the Dunning Kruger effect. The chutzpah in calling the show vice is quite galling.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | May 4, 2017 10:43:02 AM | 17

i remember bopal
butt not gopal
is he like a fisked fisk

or a cockburnt burn

not forgeting the berntstein and woodwards
gnome chumpskis and saymore hersshey bars.
all bad kosher actors and agents

if khans are the new cohens
what is a gopal

just tavistock london and mossadick tel aviv and aipac dc

oded yinon grinding on

with the help of this one little indian

Posted by: cdrake | May 4, 2017 10:45:45 AM | 18

Posted by: Johan Meyer | May 4, 2017 10:43:02 AM | 17

Good job!

My posting just after "Louis Proyect 13" either removed or got lost. Vise is a mouthpiece for the Jewi. Did an extensive searches on "Vise" during the beginning of Ukraine debacles 2014. Anything from Vice cannot be trusted.

Posted by: OJS | May 4, 2017 10:58:13 AM | 19

The verdict on Gopal--Guilty!

He's a member of Daesh in drag; so, send him to Idlib.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 4, 2017 10:58:33 AM | 20

I recommend letting Goodman know how you and others are reacting to her constant lying about Syria.

You can leave her a message here:
https://www.democracynow.org/contact

Posted by: AntiSpin | May 4, 2017 11:03:08 AM | 21

Ok, ok, very well, but is it worth the effort? Gopal's just another brick in the wall and Democracy Now has a pronounced debility of sight when it comes to judge what the u.s. is doing in Syria an the broader region. One knows it already.

Posted by: Pnyx | May 4, 2017 11:09:07 AM | 22

At one point, you mentioned that Gopal ‘directed’ on advice on how people could travel to Syria to join ISIS but I can find no corroboration and the link, you gave, doesn’t work. I have searched, yet it doesn't seem to exist. If i missed it - i am sorry. Can you print the correct link?

Just a few comments:

At one point, you mention (and link) to WSKG, as regards ISIS that it found excuses for its crimes – but the link, as I interpet it explains the attraction of ISIS – it doesn’t excuse them at all. ISIS, did in effect, fill a void for the disenfranchised to join up. And I believe that is exactly what occurred in Iraq and Syria. I think that the writer of the article you linked to was correct insofar as identifying the causes of the attraction of ISIS is critical in disassembling them.


The entire discussion of Gopal’s declaration of the USA not invoking regime change – does, on the surface, seem contradictory. I think its his fault, in the way he phrased it. I see him as analogizing it with Egypt and Yemen and the removal of Musharaff and Salah. Once, it became a problem to keep ‘our’ dictator in power ---- Obama, opportunistically, attempted to transition those dictators out and give our blessing to new dictators, Sisi and Hadl, in to power. That is what, It appears, Gopal is referring to. Its not that the USA didn’t want Assad (we worked with him during the Gulf War, rendition, I believe Hillary Clinton spoke glowingly of him), ---- its that the USA has found he became unpopular and desires a new Assad on the throne without the baggage of the present one. I think that is all that Gopal is alluding to.

I do not believe that DNow is perfect (see its mistake on White Helmets), but in total, its been a showplace, indefatigably allowing airing of progressive views for so long. I don't understand the calumny heaped upon it in many of the comment section.

Posted by: bernie | May 4, 2017 11:30:37 AM | 23

thanks b... quite a take down of this character.. what is up with amy goodman for allowing this lying peice of crap time on her supposedly glorious site democracy now? her show sucks big time.. maybe the wise-man bernie from the last thread with enlighten us? as far as i can tell she has been bought and paid for by someone higher up the chain rattling for perpetual war on syria.. amy goodman has soiled everything she might have stood for here..

Posted by: james | May 4, 2017 11:38:39 AM | 24

i see bernie posted while i was typing!! thanks bernie for trying so hard to rationalize these liars..

Posted by: james | May 4, 2017 11:40:45 AM | 25

Gopal's allegiance can be defined from his residency at New America as a Bernard L. Schwartz Fellow. Bernard Schwartz is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations who made his fortune as the head of defense contractor Loral Corporation. The U.S. State Department is a major funder, along with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, of New America. Pure Deep State. Gopal is Deep State hooker.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 4, 2017 12:05:56 PM | 26

As predicted a white back the White Helmets have come out with another atrocity video this time using real dead kids they took from a morgue in Idlib (contrast the condition of them with that of the adult supposedly injured in the attack).

NSFW version of youtube link to get around login requirement

http://www.nsfwyoutube.com/watch?v=T85iVqe0WaM

otherwise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T85iVqe0WaM

Posted by: Yonatan | May 4, 2017 12:06:01 PM | 27

harrylaw | May 4, 2017 5:15:29 AM | 8

Ford was ambassador to Syria under the Obama admin. He was carrying out US foreign policy that was defined by Hillary and Kerry. It has become obvious since he retired that Ford did not personally carry out his wishes. He was just taking orders. However now that he is retired he is quite willing to be honest to let people know what those policies mean. Given the opinions that he has expressed since leaving active service it seems clear to me that he must have had some serious questions. He is not what we would call a whistleblower but now that he is out of the service he is willing to let people know what those policies he carried out actually represented.

I find Ford today as an honorable person who is willing to let people know what the US foreign policy at the highest levels actually means.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 4, 2017 12:28:24 PM | 28

@ Posted by: Bill H | May 4, 2017 10:37:34 AM | 15

Spot on Bill ! Spot on. And 'gone', via a complimentary bayonet up the rectum, broadcast, 'live' ...

@ Posted by: karlof1 | May 4, 2017 10:58:33 AM | 20

Seconded. Now that would be, 'Justice'.

@ Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 4, 2017 12:05:56 PM | 26

Well done, Great catch.

Posted by: Outraged | May 4, 2017 12:34:42 PM | 29

The many Soros' "liberal" disinfo outlets work like this: Publish all manner of "liberal" sounding revelations that lead to nothing getting done -- and then insert a few Rubicon moments that weaken actual resistance to new wars and other actions that are extremely harmful to the common people. There seems to be a lot of money available for these disinfo projects. The Dem Party itself is one of the biggest of these pernicious operations.

Posted by: blues | May 4, 2017 12:52:11 PM | 30

27
this new one is related to the HRW report monday and this article since two days on front page of bbc with a pic

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-39805967/i-struggle-to-breathe
just now replaced on front page with this one same topic, will probably stay 2 days
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39796763

to pretend they are balanced, rebels storm out again of Astana, check the pic, beard is just because he's a hipster
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39802593

Posted by: Mina | May 4, 2017 1:03:24 PM | 31

ToivoS says:

I find Ford today as an honorable person who is willing to let people know what the US foreign policy at the highest levels actually means

an honorable person? the shitstain who brought the Salvador Option to Syria? after having learned it as Negroponte's sidekick in Iraq during those heady days of Shia death squads?

just taking orders, you say? poor sod, why didn't he just quit, like Matthew Hoh?

Posted by: john | May 4, 2017 1:13:50 PM | 32

regarding the hat tip to syricide on the anand gopal tweet from march 21 2015... syricide asks a good question to these brain dead bs artists "The more discerning is left inquiring, why would one join #ISIS to fight #Assad if, as the hacks keep telling us, ISIS is an ally of Assad."

Posted by: james | May 4, 2017 1:45:30 PM | 33

I'd like to see Gopal's bank account transactions, probably be very enlightening.

The world is full of people who have their price. Even some of them, who were once trusted truth tellers. PBS is among that "sell-out" group. Listen around, but, observe what they do. Not what they say. Dark money is poisoning the world of objective, and truthful information.

Posted by: ben | May 4, 2017 1:56:45 PM | 34

blues @ 30: How about naming some of the Soros disinformation sites?

Posted by: ben | May 4, 2017 1:59:57 PM | 35

P.S.-Almost forgot. AntiSpin @ 21, thanks for the link. I'm on it!!

Posted by: ben | May 4, 2017 2:02:45 PM | 36

Col. Larry Wilkerson puts it all in perspective in his interview at the Real News Network. He truthfully admits the real deal is a strategic game between empires, and the "terrorists" are just a tactical game.

http://therealnews.com/t2/story:18990:Wilkerson-on-Afghanistan%3A-The-Longest-U.S.-War-Will-Go-on-for-Decades

Posted by: Michael | May 4, 2017 2:04:56 PM | 37

ben @34--

Unfortunately, must agree, the worst sellout IMO being Bill Moyers.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 4, 2017 2:06:40 PM | 38

One of the rationales of "The Surge" in Iraq in 2007 was a fear (threat) that if conditions for Sunnis did not improve, the Saudis would begin funding the "dead-enders" as they were still called then (since we then considered Al-Qa’eda in Iraq an imminent, but not yet tangible threat beyond the person of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi whom finally killed in January 2006) Zarqawi's relationship with Al-Qa’eda was quite clouded by the deep discord and disagreements between Al-Qa’eda and the mothership.

In fact, in the 6-month lead-time to the start of the "Surge", the Shiia militias double-downed on ethnic cleansing in Baghdad and there was a massive increase in the number of Iraqis taking refuge Syria (as I recall the number surged to 3 million).

Posted by: susan_sunflower | May 4, 2017 3:07:11 PM | 39

First Rachel Maddow, now Amy Goodman -- amazing
how former anti-empire folks get converted
into war-hawks for ''humanitarian'' purposes.

Posted by: elkojohn | May 4, 2017 3:09:42 PM | 40

First Rachel Maddow, now Amy Goodman -- amazing how former anti-empire folks get converted into war-hawks for ''humanitarian'' purposes.

Yes, it reminds me of the "blood on you hands" conversion of several WikiLeaks insiders primarily wrt the redactions in 2010 ... I doubt it's only the threat of withdrawal of funding given the high-moral tone being used to inch closer and closer to advocating aiding and abetting actual definitive regime change (the last 6 years efforts having failed to achieve this aim).

The rebels again walked out, refusing to participate in the latest negotiations

Posted by: susan_sunflower | May 4, 2017 3:31:30 PM | 41

SS @41--

The so-called rebels walked out due to the Saudi dictat about accepting anything brokered by Iran. Garrie at the Duran explains:

"The idea that such groups would reject the proposal because Iran is one of the stated guarantors is a bit hard to take seriously as Iran is a party to the Astana Peace Talks and therefore would be a signatory of any agreement reached at the talks.

"Why are these militant groups at Astana in the first place if they so object to any agreement that has the backing of Iran?

"In reality, the rejection of the agreement by the militants is demonstrative of the fact that their goal is not peace but conquest. So long as the Syrian government controls even part of Syria, such groups will not be satisfied. The anti-Iranian rhetoric is simply par for the course among groups [Read Saudi Arabia] with a disturbing sectarian agenda for Syria." http://theduran.com/russia-calls-bluff-called-syrian-opposition-wins/


Posted by: karlof1 | May 4, 2017 3:47:06 PM | 42

There is no convincing comparison to be made between Rachel Maddow and Amy Goodman. Frankly, I am surprised to see such a hysterical stampede against the Gopal interview. There is not one shred of evidence in the transcript, or the video, to suggest that the onus of blame should fall upon anyone but Gopal himself. Why are Amy Goodman and Nermeen Shaikh to be vilified for putting questions to Gopal that merely ask for clarification of his view? Are Goodman and Shaikh supposed to tell their viewers what to think? Are they supposed to be advocates who badger the person they are interviewing? Isn't it sufficient to challenge Gopal's worldview with video clips from Jonathan Steele and Stephen Cohen. Goodman's show has given lots of airtime to Stepen Cohen, whose view of reality in Syria contradicts Anand Gopal's distortions and falsehoods, in almost every particular.

To fall into a reactionary state of mind is to fall into an error. Let people make up their own minds. What I learned from the interview is that Anand Gopal is a tool of the empire of chaos.

Posted by: Copeland | May 4, 2017 4:19:37 PM | 43

I'm heartened to see many others on this site have stopped following Democracy Now!. I stopped about 1.5 years ago after too many lies on Syria and Russia as well as a general inability to have economically realistic discussions. Instead, the show pushes a general Democrat Party agenda with lots of shout outs to minor social issues rather than pressing issues for working people.

Years ago I remember talking to Alexander Cockburn about her during a Green event where her speech was mobbed by followers full of adulation. I pointed out that I'd love to see him get that kind of reception but he reminded me that pwogs (i.e., fake progressives) didn't like him so much. Pwogs LOVE Amy Goodman.

Posted by: WorldBLee | May 4, 2017 4:20:07 PM | 44

For people looking for a daily, one hour radio show to replace Democracy Now! I highly recommend Brian Becker's Loud and Clear on Sputnik radio. Five days a week he has good interviews, analysis, etc. from what I feel is a very enlightened point of view. No nasty White Helmets, pro-Clinton, pro-war, anti-multipolar world BS to be found.

https://sputniknews.com/radio_loud_and_clear/

Posted by: WorldBLee | May 4, 2017 4:28:53 PM | 45

@13 Louis Proyect

"Such vitriol directed against Anand Gopal by the usually impassive owner of this website."

Mot that you would know anything about being impassive. To you everyone is a 'Ba'athist propagandist', while you, the repeated endorser of Takfiri headchoppers, are the noble voice in the wilderness. And as the evidence continues to mount against your side, you get ever more shrill.

Posted by: Merasmus | May 4, 2017 5:46:50 PM | 46

karlof1 @38 Moyers Wikipedia page

Moyers is a former director of the Council on Foreign Relations[68] (1967–1974), and a member of the Bilderberg Group[69] and since 1990 has been president of the Schumann Center for Media and Democracy.

Posted by: ALberto | May 4, 2017 5:53:59 PM | 47

RE: Amy Goodman,

Has always been on the side of the establishment pretending to be truly leftist.

Posted by: CarlD | May 4, 2017 5:55:02 PM | 48

Copeland @43

I am surprised to see such a hysterical stampede against the Gopal interview... To fall into a reactionary state of mind is to fall into an error.
There is no more patience for media mubo-jumbo and political razzel-dazzel.
media mumbo-jumbo: pressitutes, 'hired guns (think tanks), & apologists, pushing self-serving narratives

political razzel-dazzel: faux populism and controlled opposition

I'm reminded of the 1960's slogan:

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 4, 2017 6:06:06 PM | 49

ALberto @47--

Thanks for the reminders. Moyers did do some good deeds, however, particularly the documentary Trade Secrets which unmasked the gross illegalities and immorality of the chemical industry, specifically vinyl producers, http://www.pbs.org/tradesecrets/

His writing with Michael Winship extolling the virtues of HRC and Democrat Party last year told me all I needed to know about his perverse loyalties and lack of morality. They are both as despicable as sTrumpet.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 4, 2017 6:15:50 PM | 50

Isn't DN a CIA site? Ok with the 'soft' talk so that people are switched on to DN. But when it comes to Russia and Russia associated 'stuff' eg Assad and Syria, they spread propaganda. The previous work captures the listener, with their so called 'truths' not shared by MSM. And gives DN credibility. When it comes to Russia and associated Russian propaganda they are there with bells on. People wouldn't be so stupid ya think? A well known New Zealand blogger on the left is doing just this. And he s also a strong supporter of Al Jazeera. Unfortunately he has now blocked me from his blog so I can't keep him and the readers properly informed.

Posted by: Ike | May 4, 2017 6:31:48 PM | 51

The bullshit is getting thick in this thread.

I'm fascinated by the outbreak of historical amnesia around here. Some years ago Bernhard shut down this watering hole for a number of months, and opened it again under the apparently hopeful advent of revolution in the streets of Egypt. I don't recall, that at the time, there was much crabbing about DemocracyNow, or its exhaustive coverage of what was happening in the streets of Cairo.

That kind of totally committed coverage was pretty much a one-off, as far as Goodman and her outgoing producer were concerned. DemocracyNow doesn't have the resources to maintain that kind of effort. The quality of international coverage has been inconsistent in Goodman's organization, but they have had their brighter moments in covering the sorrows and depredations of imperialism and empire.

Also, its fair to say that coverage of social, and racial injustice in the United States, has been of high quality for years. I don't watch DN as regularly as I used to; but when a friend emails me, regarding something especially good that they have done, I am not disappointed in the result. The fits of apoplexy I see here, over the Gopal interview is something extraordinary. For anyone of sufficient literacy or knowledge, Gopal's depravity is evident. Amy Goodman and Normeen Shaikh have done a public service in exposing him to scrutiny. The actual language they use in the interview is the most prudent and modest that can be imagined. It must be conceded that viewers can draw their own conclusions about him.

Posted by: Copeland | May 4, 2017 6:36:12 PM | 52

Johan Meyer: "Vise is a mouthpiece for the Jewi."

Good old Moon of Alabama, the go-to place for Red-Brown miasma.

Posted by: Louis Proyect | May 4, 2017 7:07:32 PM | 53

Poor old Louis Proyect, the no-go place for grey matter.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 4, 2017 7:24:28 PM | 54

/~~~~~~~~~~
Amy Goodman and Normeen Shaikh have done a public service in exposing him to scrutiny.
\~~~~~~~~~~

Really? It's really hip to give every fascist air time?

Amy Goodman and the rest of the CIA doesn't do "public service".

They push war. Why don't you go fight one?

Posted by: blues | May 4, 2017 7:27:04 PM | 55

The real media mumbo-jumbo lies in the reckless proliferation of slander. It should be noted that our host did not waste any word to degrade those who conducted the interview. His focus was on the man, Gopal, and the answers he gave.

Posted by: Copeland | May 4, 2017 7:33:11 PM | 56

@ Copeland | May 4, 2017 7:33:11 PM | 56

I just can't wait for Amy Goodman to sue me for slandering that she is CIA. The clock is ticking...

Posted by: blues | May 4, 2017 7:39:57 PM | 57

@blues

It's really hip to expose contrasting views in a civilized manner. For your information, blues, we don't need scapegoats that are plucked out of our own ranks; it only plays into the hands of our enemies.

Amy Goodman has a long history of service in journalism. DemocracyNow has for many years pulled back "the painted veil" to expose the suffering and the disenfranchised, poor people, labor organizers and field workers, --folks who are otherwise invisible in this society. When have you done the same?

Posted by: Copeland | May 4, 2017 7:46:43 PM | 58

I never cease to be amazed at the people here who have been trained to instinctively tune out any media that does not tow the Russian propaganda line! The very mirror of the folks who hang on every word from Fox or NPR and insist that it's the unvarnished truth!

Posted by: Almand | May 4, 2017 7:47:00 PM | 59

Copeland @56

Whatever the merits for or against, the frustration of people who have been betrayed time and time again is palpable.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 4, 2017 7:49:17 PM | 60

/~~~~~~~~~~
Amy Goodman has a long history of service in journalism. DemocracyNow has for many years pulled back "the painted veil" to expose the suffering and the disenfranchised, poor people, labor organizers and field workers, --folks who are otherwise invisible in this society. When have you done the same?

Posted by: Copeland | May 4, 2017 7:46:43 PM | 58
\~~~~~~~~~~

I personally have a much longer history of doing such things. The only difference is that I am not backed by the Soros/CIA money machine, and I somehow neglect to promote imperialism and its wars. Of course, that's just a coincidence.

Posted by: blues | May 4, 2017 7:56:15 PM | 61

When considering the advisability of condemning or not condemning A G for pushing the neocon line regarding Syria, I think it's important to keep in mind that she's been doing that for some five or six years, now.

She almost never misses an opportunity to parrot the Establishment "Two-Minute Hate" du jour against Russia, and likes to counter the occasional Richard Cohen appearance with at least two Gopal clones to shout him down.

The Gopal interview was not just a single instance of airing the other side -- she's been at this non-stop for a very long time.

The attitudes that she supports -- and fosters -- are killing real, live, innocent "beautiful babies" in Syria, every single day.

Posted by: AntiSpin | May 4, 2017 7:56:17 PM | 62

@ Posted by: Copeland | May 4, 2017 7:33:11 PM | 56

Quite. DN did very good work from the beginning thru the height of the Iraq War ... somewhat less impressed since ... tho certainly of two minds re this sudden 'pack' mentality running off on a tangent of DN, NOT re Gopal and links/associations/conduct/associates/disingenuous deceptions.

DN ain't perfect, nor actively totally 'one-sided' IMV, which is good enough for me, as I'll take whatever I can get re open public debate/information, even if flawed ... would trade the three(3), TheGuardian, Washington Post & the NYT for one DN any day of the week.

Seeking angelic MSM/media outlets and crucifying anything less than perfection, is a fast track to zero.

It is just as important to hear from(expose) the likes of shills like Gopal, and leave it to the viewer to decide, as it is those one agrees/aligns with, otherwise its an echo chamber & pointless ... YMMV.

Posted by: Outraged | May 4, 2017 7:57:01 PM | 63

WorldLee @ 44

A. Cockburn, like Gopal, also wrote for THE NATION.

I loved his work. But talking of fake progressives is such an ambiguous matter. Do you recall that Cockburn was a climate science DENIER? Did that make him a fake progressive?

Posted by: bernie | May 4, 2017 7:58:18 PM | 64

Amy Goodman hosts the "War and Peace Report". Lots of WAR and not much peace.

Posted by: fast freddy | May 4, 2017 8:00:18 PM | 65

I was fixing electronic sound board modules at the New York City WBAI radio station before Goodman slithered in. I got to know them all.

Posted by: blues | May 4, 2017 8:04:57 PM | 66

This from Amy's Wikipedia page

Goodman is from an Orthodox Jewish family; her maternal grandfather was an Orthodox Rabbi.

Posted by: ALberto | May 4, 2017 8:23:36 PM | 67

"Goodman is from an Orthodox Jewish family; her maternal grandfather was an Orthodox Rabbi."

Oh, brother. What a cesspool.

Posted by: Louis Proyect | May 4, 2017 8:37:38 PM | 68

@63 outraged.. i agree with your balanced view.. i have never followed democracy now, so for me the optics of this amy lady having gopal featured on his site stating bald faced lies doesn't look all that great.. maybe she has done great work.. kudos for her if she has.. i would still question why shes giving a person like this air time on her show, unless the level of integrity of the guests she has on doesn't matter a fig..

mind you, sites like moa allow for whack jobs like louis proyect.. i guess b figures anything lp says shows folks openly what a bozo he is.. why bother commenting further? i am okay with that too..

Posted by: james | May 4, 2017 8:50:57 PM | 69

amy is a goodman
her talmudism and love of the madonna kabballa ralla bananarama trans jennerism
in know
way inter fears with his her journalistic non pork chops.
a razor blunt intellect a soft hard rigour mortis like grasp
of the frankfurt mohel school scripted chumpski factoids.
make this tub of lard in human form a prize and here ho of hebrew histories.


greg dyke once head of the bbc called his company hideously white.
never once mentioned how a 1% population group controlled over 30% of the senior management in documentary and news.


Posted by: cd rake | May 4, 2017 8:52:13 PM | 70

As for me, I'll make my own judgments, over time, on Amy Goodman & DM. But PBS, once it accepted Corporate money, has forfeited it's right to speak for the public. I listen to a Pacifica station here in CA. KPFK 90.7FM, No Corporate or Govt. funding accepted,completely
subcriber funded. DN is carried on that station, along with many other programs. Programs you'll NEVER hear anywhere else.

Posted by: ben | May 4, 2017 8:57:19 PM | 71

It's just information, Mr. Proyect. Nothing to do with sanitation facilities.

Posted by: blues | May 4, 2017 9:02:38 PM | 72

@53
Quite the lie you told there---try OJS (@19). But seeing as you are openly supportive of fascists that are of nominal Sunni religious persuasion, I'll take your lie as a badge of honour.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | May 4, 2017 9:42:59 PM | 73

@ Posted by: james | May 4, 2017 8:50:57 PM | 69

DN did outstanding, in-depth and determined coverage of the abrogation of the Geneva Conventions, Habeus Corpus, Torture, Coercive Interrogations, permissive Legal advice, whistleblowers, Black sites, Abu Ghraib, Military Commissions, Gitmo, etc from shortly after 9/11 and throughout till the 'end'(?) of the Iraq Invasion/Occupation & beyond. The majority of MSM wasn't having a bar of it, except superficial formulaic pieces, and pretended Goodman and DN didn't even exist ... for me that counts, as it was directly talking truth to TPTB ... so, I'm willing to give 'em some slack.

Glenn Greenwald lets slip from time to time with some fascist-lite statements, and the ownership of the Intercept troubles me, so i just look the other way, and keep reading, because the body and value of the content of the work sure outweighs the negatives, no doubt about it.

Re some other questionable(?) comments from some posters re Amy Goodman ... my parents were devout, totally committed Catholics, was brought up one an age ago, thats why I ain't by conscious choice, since adulthood ... does that make me forever branded a supposed 'Papist', regardless ? Of Irish-American ancestry, does that make me a dissolute alcoholic re the stereotype ? (Hint: Been a teetotaler for ~50 years)

Sins of the Father(or Mother) ? Pfft!

Posted by: Outraged | May 4, 2017 9:51:02 PM | 74

Proyect, the "Marxist" in full support of empire, ever since he was offered the job. As far as I can tell he was an indie film reviewer before that. Which of course is the coolest Marxist position in the late 90s.

Whatever pays the rent I guess. He's a legend in the Bellingcat/Stratfor/HRW/White Helmets death squad milieu, so there's that.

But make no mistake. In spite of his "established" nom de plume, he's 100% Dairy Queen Cornfed Walmart AMERICAN. First set loose upon the effete, regime-questioning Englishmen of the Guardian et al. Given, surely, the same MKUltra torture regime as Richard Spencer... whenever THAT happened.

LMAO some of you know exactly what I'm sayin.

Posted by: sejomoje | May 4, 2017 10:13:31 PM | 75

@74
I'll engage my inner conspiracy theorist. A hundred bucks US to the charity of you choice says that these people attacking based on ethno-religious lines are in pay of the same people that effectively control Proyect. Four years time for discovery, i.e. pay-out if no exposure by say 1 May 2021. I find it striking that such people, on any forum, always come out when apologists for US conduct are getting beaten.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | May 4, 2017 10:15:27 PM | 76

Amy Goodman ??? She's been gone for a decade or so. Where was she on Libya? Where was she on Honduras? And everything else. Come on pod people of MOA. Get with the program. Sci-fi fail.

Posted by: sejomoje | May 4, 2017 10:18:45 PM | 77

Bingo Johan. Whether or not he's a useful idiot, he's reading from their manual. Shiva's protofascist, eternal-stupid manual.

Posted by: sejomoje | May 4, 2017 10:20:40 PM | 78

@74

Yes, I agree. Facts can be so irrational. Pfffft!

Posted by: ALberto | May 4, 2017 10:20:59 PM | 79

Well, re these various assertions without references, here is a detailed in-depth piece by Vanessa Beeley (serious cred) take re DN on Syria, also has some details re ownership change & Soros. Have to admit haven't followed DN closely for years now so ... hm ... :(

Another interesting bit of trivia ... DN is NOT listed on ProPornOT ... make of that what one will ...

Democracy Now! Criminal Cheerleaders for US-NATO-GCC’s Perpetual Conflict and Bloodshed in Syria

@ Posted by: Johan Meyer | May 4, 2017 10:15:27 PM | 76

As I don't gamble, unless on an extremely rare, carefully considered, sure thing ... will have to respectfully, regretfully, decline the proffered bet. ;)

Excellent posts, enjoy your work, bravo.

@ Posted by: ALberto | May 4, 2017 10:20:59 PM | 79

You're back ?

Do go ahead and quote some more Mossad Debkafile disinfo via an unreferencable Kuwait Emirs Sunni arabic news fabrication, regurgitated by the Israhell press, picked up and promoted by Veterans Today, whose teams of dedicated analysts are on the case, investigating, investigating, forever ... investigating. Do gag me with a spoon :))

Apparently you wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in the face. Was your grandmother an alcoholic Russian Bolshevist perhaps ? If so, what does that make you given your 'logic'(not) & 'rational' reasoning, and very long bow, re AMs grandmother, hm ? Expect you'll now make further puerile, laughable threats of physical violence, if ever met in a pub or on the street, no ?
Pfffft! indeed. Have a lovely evening & Good day. Oh, and would you like fries with that ?

Posted by: Outraged | May 4, 2017 11:03:43 PM | 80

@80 Thanks for the kind words.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | May 4, 2017 11:21:47 PM | 81

Copeland | May 4, 2017 4:19:37 PM | 43

I agree with most of what you are saying. I have listened to DN for many years and believe that Amy Goodman is a pretty good progressive. It is slanderous to compare her to Rachel Maddow. But when it comes to Syria Amy has been way off base from at least 2011. She has over the last 6 years been an advocate for the Syrian Arab Spring. At first I attributed that to some naive belief that the Syrian rebels were just a bunch of DEMOCRACY advocates. But by 2012 and certainly by 2013 that was not the case. Amy and her side kick with the big bushy eyebrows have continued to attack the Syrian government on behalf of democracy.

This Anand Gopal interview simply shows how out of touch Amy has always been when it comes to ME politics. Amy deserves to be raked over the coals on this one.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 4, 2017 11:38:45 PM | 82

fast freddy @ 65

yeah, Goodman has done the "war AND peace report" - I always thought that was hilarious!

nowadays the best podcasts are not on radio at all (but fair.org's counterspin is still great). shows like "Unauthorized Disclosure" and "Humorless Queers" are so good you can listen to every archive twice and never be bored!

if anyone knows other good ones, would love to hear where they are.

Posted by: anon | May 4, 2017 11:42:36 PM | 83

NERMEEN SHAIKH: "Can you explain what you mean by that, that the cause of ISIS or what gave birth to ISIS in Syria is in fact the Assad regime? Because that’s not what’s commonly understood."

Where I fault AG is her lack of critically interviewing Gopal. At least NS somewhat countered Gopal's response.

AG did the same with the white helmets report; not doing critical interviewing; just accepting the reportage...

Twenty years ago, AG was among the very best reporters; no longer...

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 5, 2017 3:17:26 AM | 84

Democracy Now has sunk so low its not even worth commenting these days, there is no difference what Democracy Now says and lets say Hillary Clinton.

Who is funding Democracy Now? These changes just come like that are they?

Posted by: Anon1 | May 5, 2017 4:18:58 AM | 85

I'm certain "Anad Gopal" actually translates into "lying shit" in Urdu. but I could be wrong.

Posted by: rm | May 5, 2017 4:48:03 AM | 86

i posted that in the wrong place: copied here
Just to be clear: archive.org is a Canadian website that pretends to support open sources by allowing anyone to upload anything on it. Some publishers find recent publications there and get them removed, but Canadian law has one of the lowest number of years for copyrights (that's what i gathered, if jurists read they can correct). It is probably easy to find on archive everything from bomb manuals to wild propaganda to any sect or movement and certainly the step-by-step guide. It does not say (and b does not say) that Gopal uploaded it, only that he refers to it. The link does not appear completely on the tweet so it is hard to check, but i suspect specialized websites or the journals published by the djihadists would advertize it.

Amy Goodmann screwed on Syria from the beginning and lost many DNow fans.

Posted by: Mina | May 5, 2017 4:57:31 AM | 87

@87

Mina, i have read that AGoodman 'screwed on Syria' from the beginning, by other posters, as well, as you.

So, i went back and looked at one of the very first programs on Syria after the demonstrations in March/2011.

I am just not clear as to what she broadcast that would have lost her listeners - and i am honestly asking what it might be.

I am posting an interview from Mr. Maleh and his son in which they both recount the American responsibility in 1945, as well as events that occurred at the Syrian demonstrations.

I seriously doubt anyone covered the news in this way on American MSM. But i could be wrong. https://www.democracynow.org/2011/3/24/thousands_protest_in_syria_after_govt

Posted by: bernie | May 5, 2017 9:34:14 AM | 88

@flyod - Zionist influence isn't the only issue for the U.S. - gas pipeline from Qatar through Syria to Europe would hit Russia hard. It is very much in U.S. imperial interest.

Posted by: b | May 4, 2017 8:43:05 AM | 11

==========================================

Is this the mythical Saudi-Qatari Pipline which must pass over Saudi territory in order to reach Syria?

That certainly is the pipeline which Gareth Porter informed us, months ago, has still not got any "go-ahead" from the Saudis to cross Saudi territory.

The War Against the Assad Regime Is Not a ‘Pipeline War’

But the “pipeline war” theory is based on false history and it represents a distraction from the real problem of US policy in the Middle East – the US war state’s determination to hold onto its military posture in the region.

It is true that Qatar had proposed a pipeline to carry its natural gas to Turkey. But nearly everything else about the story turns out, upon investigation, to be untrue. There is no contemporaneous report of any such rejection by the Syrian government. It was only four years later, in August 2013 that an Agence France-Presse article recounting what happened in a meeting between President Vladimir Putin and Saudi intelligence chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan, claimed in passing, “In 2009, Assad refused to sign an agreement with Qatar for an overland pipeline running from the Gulf to Europe via Syria to protect the interests of its Russian ally, which is Europe’s top supplier of natural gas.” No source is given for the statement, but the main source for other information in the article was “a European diplomat who shuttles between Beirut and Damascus.”

That claim has no credibility for a very simple reason: there was no Qatari proposal for Syria to reject in 2009. It was not until October 2009 that Qatar and Turkey even agreed to form a working group to develop such a gas pipeline project.

Even more important, the immediate problem for Qatar’s proposal was not Syria but Saudi Arabia, whose territory the Qatari gas would have to cross to get to Syria. In January 2010, The National, a daily UAE [United Arab Emirates] newspaper reported that the main obstacle to the idea of a pipeline to carry Qatari natural gas to Turkey and then to Europe “was likely to be Saudi Arabia, which has a track record of obstructing regional pipeline development” and still had very bad relations with Qatar. And Middle East geopolitical analyst Felix Imonti reported at Oilprice.com in 2012 that Qatar had been forced to abandon the pipeline idea in 2010 because Saudi Arabia had not agreed to have it built across its territory.

Seems a very strange proposition indeed that Mr Porter should be able to report that the Saudis couldn't agree on the simple matter of a Qatari pipleine crossing Saudi territory, but yet somehow decided to agree with Qatar on the much more complicated arregment of supplying an army of proxies to achieve murder,mayhem and Syrian regime change which, according to the theory being espoused above, is at least mainly, from the Qatari and Saudi p.o.v. in order to facilitate this Qatari pipline over which the Saudis seem already to not agree on.

So they are agreed on the need to facilitate the pipeline in syria, just not across Saudi territory, which surrounds Qatari territory.

Theory-wise, it all seems a little convoluted to me, tbh.

Doesn't have much in the way of explanatory-capacity once you realise that the Saudis have not agreed to any pipeline crossing their territory.

After all any pipeline which cannot cross Saudi Territory, cannot originate in Qatar, unless they intend to take a circuitous route up the Gulf to Kuwait, which seems extremely unlikely going on the available "evidence" so far. YMMV

Posted by: Just Sayin' | May 5, 2017 10:51:43 AM | 89

"First set loose upon the effete, regime-questioning Englishmen of the Guardian et al."

Yeah, those fairies with their lisping, prancing ways. England needs someone like Putin to force them to give up their faggot ways.

Posted by: Louis Proyect | May 5, 2017 11:27:52 AM | 90

Fine Bernie, it was good to have Maleh who is certainly the most honest of all opponents. But when foreign djihadists with foreign accents started to flood from 2012 on (if not already in 2011, i remember some north african accents on the videos, tunisians or libyans probably) they kept carrying the narrative of the 'rebels' trying to achieve democracy.
You don't start a revolution with hundreds of kilometers of border with a country torn by war (Iraq), and you don't make a revolution without exponing your ideas in writing. This is what Maleh and others had been doing and were doing, but not the Homs WH etc cozied by MSF and NATO friends.

Posted by: Mina | May 5, 2017 11:47:57 AM | 91

Cockburn was a climate science DENIER? Did that make him a fake progressive?

Posted by: bernie | May 4, 2017 7:58:18 PM | 64

LOL

Some of you act like there's actually some "science" to be "denied" in "Climate Science", when in truth there's precious little.

Posted by: Just Sayin' | May 5, 2017 1:29:18 PM | 92

Gopal makes it clear in this interview that it was the American invasion of Iraq that planted the seeds of ISIS: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/we-spoke-to-a-veteran-war-correspondent-about-the-origins-of-isis-822

Posted by: Louis Proyect | May 4, 2017 9:37:00 AM | 13

======================================================

Ah yes, the precious half-truths peddled by the occasionally-resident blood-dripping-from-the-fangs warmoger contingent.
190,000 US weapons feared missing in Iraq

It was the office of US General David Patreaus himself that actually ordered and shipped to Iraq, thousands of AK47's & Glock Pistols that went straight into the hands of alleged Iraqi "insurgents", just "accidentally" like, into the the hands of what became later was known as "ISIS".

Posted by: Just Sayin' | May 5, 2017 1:38:13 PM | 93

Louis Proyect 13
Isn't Vice the production of globalists Maher and Zakaria? They might have some interesting content on more exotic stories like corruption/crime or people who travel to try ayahuasca. But as to true political stories? For one thing, he sort of left out the Taliban as being stooges brought up by Pakistan/ISI. Then he equates all of them together with the Syrian Government. Not equivalent. And he claims that they all (except ISIS) want to minimize casualties. But ISIS did not do the bus attack that killed so many children. And there's the question that implies ISIS had legitimate grievances with the Syrian Government. We need to think of how the Sunnis feel? And what of the Shia under Sunni rule? What of the Saudi declaration that they would go in to help if the US pulled out?
I'll take the global research source over Vice. At one time Vice was interesting until I found out what it was all about.

Posted by: Curtis | May 5, 2017 4:54:35 PM | 94

Outraged 80
I'll also take testimony from Vanessa Beeley over the Vice champion.

Posted by: Curtis | May 5, 2017 4:55:51 PM | 95

Just Sayin' 89
They said the same thing about pipelines in Afghanistan.

In one of Greg Palast's books he wrote of the internal disagreement of the neocons with one faction wanting to take over Iraqi oil and break OPEC with big output while another faction wanting Iraq to rejoin OPEC. In the end Iraq rejoined OPEC. (Either way Cheney would benefit.) But I doubt the former case would have ever happened and that Iraq was always going to return to OPEC with lower quotas to keep the oil in the ground and the Saudi market share high.

Posted by: Curtis | May 5, 2017 5:31:34 PM | 96

@96

"Sorry but the term "globalist" is not really meaningful to me"

Oh look, a 'Marxist' who can't handle the concept of transnational, neo-liberal capitalism.

"You, of course, are entitled to your own opinions."

Which, if an attempt was made to post them on your own site, would be either blocked entirely, or edited by you to include anti-Semetic slurs. There may be idiotic Jew haters hanging around sites like MoA, but b doesn't edit comments to include such insults as a way to discredit those who don't tow to his point of view.

I know, since you run on pure arrogance and smugness, that you won't pay any attention to this, but you really are so far down the immoral rabbit hole it's amazing. You've concocted a world inside your head where the Assad government is the embodiment of utter evil, and the predominately foreign backed 'civil war' is a workers uprising against a neo-liberal government. Hey...wait a minute...you just said globalism wasn't a thing you recognized...and that you didn't recognize it because the crowd who talks about it includes a bunch of people you find distasteful. Also, funny that you find right-wing nationalist politicians revolting, but have repeatedly cheered on literal Wahhabist child killers because, in your insane world, they're the lesser evil if the enemy is Assad.

You really are an utter worm, Proyect.

Posted by: Merasmus | May 5, 2017 6:07:22 PM | 97

Amy has done a lot of great work on many issues, but really people like her are probably more dangerous and duplicitous than the known propagandists employed by the MSM. I know way to many people who bought the lies pertaining to the destruction of Libya and Syria mainly because they developed an emotional non critical loyalty and trust for Goodman and her ilk. She parrots the same propaganda for illegal regime change in Syria as the US government and it's MSM robots, never even bothering to save face and least admit that Syria has been on list for destruction since at least the time when she interviewed General Wesley Clark on her show and he read off the list to her after 9/11. Nor will she go into the history of the US, UAE, Qatar..etc trying to force Assad to build the pipeline. Nor will she talk about how the CIA has attempted regime change in Syria many times going back to the 50s. She won't even mention the idea in passing that both chemical strikes could have been false flags by the rebels, or that the first has been largely proven to be just that. She was on the ground and watched the firemen and cops tell people that WTC 7 is about to come down before it did and she has been exposed to ample evidence of our governments complicity in that false flag massacre. On a personal level it makes me less sick to watch some full on actor read off propaganda on CNN or FOX, at least they are just doing their job. Watching this intelligent controlled opposition shill lie and lie to her faithful flock who mean well and believe her because of her other hypocritical good humanitarian reporting makes me sick. She keeps a straight, concerned face as she advocates for the destruction of Syria, even as she has done previous shows on the lies that brought us into every other previous war such as Iraq. Her and Jeremy Scahill are enormously valuable in keeping so many well meaning 'progressives" in denial about the most important crimes of all, those that their benefactors had a close hand in carrying out, like 9/11. How dare they spend so much time and energy on say the murderous drone program while they use their names and cred to cover up and add legitimacy to the 9/11 crimes of mass murder that made the drone program come into being in the first place. Her Syria propaganda is the icing on the cake. If Amy Goodman can sleep at night than I'll wager she is truly a really terrible person and merciless servant of the empire.

Posted by: Jason | May 6, 2017 1:39:14 AM | 98

an honorable person? the shitstain who brought the Salvador Option to Syria? after having learned it as Negroponte's sidekick in Iraq during those heady days of Shia death squads?

just taking orders, you say? poor sod, why didn't he just quit, like Matthew Hoh?

Posted by: john | May 4, 2017 1:13:50 PM | 32

As a person with English as a third language I checked the usage of "honorable man":

"and Brutus is an honorable man."

---------

Former aparatchick with "now you are telling us" routine. I am not sure if qualms count as honor. In bad old times a man of honor was suppose to tell the truth and defend his word with a sword if challenged, which linked honor and brutality. (Hence Brutus; this explanation is intentionally misleading.)

Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 6, 2017 2:25:33 AM | 99

After all any pipeline which cannot cross Saudi Territory, cannot originate in Qatar, unless they intend to take a circuitous route up the Gulf to Kuwait, which seems extremely unlikely going on the available "evidence" so far. YMMV

Posted by: Just Sayin' | May 5, 2017 10:51:43 AM | 89

Actually, not so "circuitous", actually the pipe under the waters of the Persian Gulf is the shortest route for Qatar. However, the most problematic would be crossing southern Iraq, where the pipeline could turn to be self-combustible. But the main point, that Saudis and Qataris seem at loggerheads since al-Thani clan was expelled from Najd ca. 200 years ago, the feud between two Wahhabi houses of Saud and Thani never healed.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | May 6, 2017 2:41:38 AM | 100

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