Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 25, 2017

Details Emerge On The Manchester Blowback From Britain's Terror Support

There are now a few more details on the Manchester attack and how it relates to British support for Takfirs in its wars on independent countries in the Middle East and elsewhere. The picture has not changed though from the one we painted yesterday. The attack was a blow back from the British use of Takfiris to take down governments it dislikes.

In 2011 when the British, French and the U.S. waged war on Libya, the British government sent British-Libyan Takfiris to fight against the Libyan government forces:

Belal Younis, another British citizen who went to Libya, described how he was stopped under 'Schedule 7' counter-terrorism powers on his return to the UK after a visit to the country in early 2011. ...

He said he was subsequently asked by an intelligence officer from MI5, the UK's domestic security agency: "Are you willing to go into battle?"

"While I took time to find an answer he turned and told me the British government have no problem with people fighting against Gaddafi," he told MEE.

Known Libyan radicals were released from control order in Britain, given their passports back and hauled off to Libya. There British special forces were on the ground and British fighter planes in the air to support their fighting against the legitimate Libyan government. MI-5, the domestic British spy service, "sorted" the fighters sent from Britain. The responsible British Home Secretary at that time? One Theresa May, now the British Prime Minister.

The father of the Manchester assassin fought in Libya in a gang related to the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, a known al-Qaeda entity. His son, then 16 years old, joined him:

In 2011, when Abedi was still a teenager, he traveled to Libya and fought alongside his father in a militia known as the Tripoli Brigade to oust Gadhafi as the revolts of the Arab Spring swept North Africa and the Middle East, a family friend said.

The son returned to Manchester but became a well known danger to society. Members of Libyan exile society in Manchester reported him at least five times as a dangerous Jihadi to the local authorities. There were no reactions. Additionally:

Abedi's own family background might also have been a red flag to authorities. His father was a member of the militant Libyan Islamic Fighting Group.
...
France’s interior minister said the 22-year-old had “proven” links with Islamic State and that both British and French intelligence services had information that the attacker had been in Syria.

According to the Financial Times Salman Abedi came back to Britain a few days before the attack via Turkey and Germany. He had come from Libya to Turkey but probably stayed a few days in Syria to receive his last orders.

All these attacks by Takfiris, in Paris, in Brussels, Berlin and Manchester as well as in Libya, Syria and Iraq, have their ideological roots in Wahhabism, the extreme version of Salafist Islam promoted in Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The roots of such terrorism are in Riyadh and Doha and will have to be fought there.

But the Saudi and Qatari rulers pay extraordinary amounts of protection money in the form of weapon purchases from British and U.S. companies. As long as they keep doing so they will be kept in place as useful props in the bigger scheme.

For the ruling classes in Britain and elsewhere the victims in Manchester are just collateral damage in their quest to rule the world with help of the Wahhabi storm troopers.

Meanwhile "western" media and news agencies continue to promote life in al-Qaeda country, "Now with Arabian horse races !", and incited more youngsters into joining the deadly cult.

Posted by b on May 25, 2017 at 12:59 PM | Permalink

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All these attacks by Takfiris, in Paris, in Brussels, Berlin and Manchester as well as in Libya, Syria and Iraq, have their ideological roots in Wahhabism ...

Sometimes I wonder if these attacks don't also have some "roots" in the MI6, CIA and Mossad. The timing and the details of the attacks always seem so suspicious.

Posted by: Seamus Padraig | May 25, 2017 1:08:41 PM | 1

thanks b... if the west is willing to support takfirs in order to take down the leadership of other countries - libya, syria, etc - then it is not too much of a step for them to see what they are doing to their own country, not to mention the ideals and values they are supporting..

what you say at the end is worth repeating.. when will a politician address this? none of them have any character, integrity or backbone.

"All these attacks by Takfiris, in Paris, in Brussels, Berlin and Manchester as well as in Libya, Syria and Iraq, have their ideological roots in Wahhabism, the extreme version of Salafist Islam promoted in Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The roots of such terrorism are in Riyadh and Doha and will have to be fought there.

But the Saudi and Qatari rulers pay extraordinary amounts of protection money in the form of weapon purchases from British and U.S. companies. As long as they keep doing so they will be kept in place as useful props in the bigger scheme.

For the ruling classes in Britain and elsewhere the victims in Manchester are just collateral damage in their quest to rule the world with help of the Wahhabi storm troopers.

Meanwhile "western" media and news agencies continue to promote life in al-Qaeda country, "Now with Arabian horse races !", and incited more youngsters into joining the deadly cult."

Posted by: james | May 25, 2017 1:16:31 PM | 2

Perfectly condensed, thanks b!

Posted by: Mina | May 25, 2017 1:25:13 PM | 3

1) Of course. Saudi would not survive without "Western" support.

In this case I think they miscalculated. I can't imagine how Theresa May can get away with defending cutting police forces in the face of the terrorist attack.

It all goes back to the funding of religious extremists against communism and nationalism, and Saudi was an early victim (with Iran) in 1979.

Qatif uprising and Grand Mosque Seizure

Saudi income not spent in the region but on American weapons is an insanity with a reason.

Posted by: somebody | May 25, 2017 1:30:46 PM | 4

@james #2, Great point in the first para. Psychopaths don't care, so no telling what lengths they're willing to go.

I fear the limits of their illness has not even come close to being tested on their/our own people.

Posted by: ritzl | May 25, 2017 1:41:45 PM | 5

Of course, presstitutes will never make such connection. Instead they'll blame the usual targets.

Posted by: Harry | May 25, 2017 1:45:25 PM | 6

Seamus Padraig @1--
"Sometimes I wonder if these attacks don't also have some "roots" in the MI6, CIA and Mossad."

Those organizations certainly watered and fertilized the Wahhabist "plant" and helped it to grow into what it is today. So, in one sense, the attacks are rooted in those entities.

I notice the rhetoric used by those writers averse to the Outlaw US Empire's global domination project is getting more honest and plain-spoken as this example from Bob Fisk shows:

"After two days lecturing a collection of head-choppers, dictators, torturers and land thieves, Donald Trump at last met a good guy on Wednesday." http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/05/25/trump-meets-the-new-leader-of-the-secular-world-pope-francis/

And Pepe Escobar's last several essays show similar evolution:

"It's never enough to repeat, over and over again, that Daesh and the House of Saud are both cadaverous faces of the same Medusa-stamped coin; totalitarian theocracy, implementable by jihad.

"The US establishment or deep state, as well as the UK's, will never admit it. So many weapons deals, so little time....

"Daesh does not care about any of these geopolitical nuances. The prodigal sons of Wahhabi Salafi-jihadism are now the deterritorialized Walking Dead. Talk about a nifty division of labor; as their progenitors gorge on US weaponry, their mission to spread the "solid stench of death" across the West ever expands."
https://sputniknews.com/columnists/201705251053969840-daesh-west-stench-of-death/

True to its place in the Imperial order of battle, Daesh has surfaced big time in Philippines and has a presence throughout the region to spank those ASEAN nations not willing to kow tow. I'm rather surprised we haven't seen Daesh in Venezuela, although the tactics being used there to overthrow the legitimate government differ little.

Ultimately, to kill-off Daesh and its kin, their Imperial sponsors must be overturned, which will then also pull-down the vassals. But I wonder if leaders of the Multipolar Alliance realize that's what must be done as there's just no sense in partnering with those directing the Evil we see hoping they'll see the light and change their ways.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 25, 2017 1:45:47 PM | 7

Great work b. I'm convinced that Daesh cannot exist without intelligence support from major players. There was an innocuous paragraph in an NYT story the other day about Trump's Saudi-Israel trip that drove home the point:

“Despite their frustration with Israeli behavior regarding the Palestinians, the gulf states recognize that Israel is a strong, advanced country with a military that could act against their common foes and that has intelligence capabilities that could mesh very well with the needs and capabilities of gulf agencies,” said Jason Isaacson, an associate executive director of the American Jewish Committee, who has been visiting Arab countries for two decades.

I interpret this to mean that Daesh survives as a joint GCC-Israeli project (with ample input from Turkey, UK, U.S. and France).

Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 25, 2017 1:52:09 PM | 8

IF, these attacks aren't Empire inspired, perhaps the NATO countries should consider not pursuing the Empire's foreign policies. Duh!

"What goes around, comes around."

Posted by: ben | May 25, 2017 1:52:51 PM | 9

It's fishy in Philippines; Duterte's own daughter is the governor there and some say it is a rebellion unrelated to djihad stuff.

Posted by: Mina | May 25, 2017 2:02:03 PM | 10

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2800399/my-brother-told-god-didn-t-love-ariana-grande-reveals-turned-kabbalah-homosexual-brother-shunned-catholic-church.html

"The 21-year-old singer disagreed with the Christian faith's teachings about elder sibling Frankie's sexuality but they both found a 'connection' with the offshoot of Judaism that has many a celebrity follower.

She explained: 'When my brother was told that God didn't love him I was like, "OK, that's not cool." They were building a Kabbalah centre in Florida so we both checked it out and really had a connection with it.'"

Ivanka and Jared Kushner are also avid Kabbalists.

Quite probably MoA readers are on a different wave length than the targets of this blatant mind control/manipulation. We may not be able to see it but that doesn't mean that the targets of this manipulation don't.

Posted by: Heros | May 25, 2017 2:14:37 PM | 11

Another attack related to the blowback!

When will our media, EU, US learn?
How many will be killed in the west before they stop this?
At the same time how could they stop? They all think alike and believe their own propaganda on Libya, Khadaffi, Syria etcetera! Amazing!
Not to mention Nato that just today keep whining about Russia when anyone see that what happend in Manchester will just keep on going!

Posted by: Anonn | May 25, 2017 2:30:42 PM | 12

At the end of the previous Manchester thread, PaveWay IV provided a link to an article that paints an ugly picture, http://www.voltairenet.org/article196455.html

I hope Corbyn pounces on the ample materials linking May to the chain of events that culminated in the Manchester bombing, which is why the Brits are in a snit over the leaks across the pond--Mercouris at The Duran writes about it, http://theduran.com/us-leaks-manchester-terror-attack-strain-allies/ But if Corbyn wins will he have the courage to drain his swamp?

Posted by: karlof1 | May 25, 2017 2:59:25 PM | 13

Read Christopher Davidson's Shadow Wars. It's all there. Al-Qaedas LIFG offered asylum by UK and then paid by MI6 to topple Qadafi in 1990s and again, encouraged to take part in 2011 war.

Posted by: Dovishdeny | May 25, 2017 3:11:22 PM | 14

karlof1@13 - maningi posted the link - I just nitpicked.

But as long as you bring up the subject of these bogus 'leaks', I'll just say that the attack they pose to one's common sense (the 'media leak' and the content) are odious beyond belief.

An amazingly bloodless/fleshless scene, but let's set aside the gore for now. I'll appeal to everyone's common sense like this. This was a substantial explosion inside a building (a large open space) heard at least a few km away. I want to know what alien technology Brits use to keep ceiling tiles in place, windows intact and fluorescent lighting untouched by such a blast. The reason I posted the mall exercise from last year is because the scene looks remarkably similar - almost pristine except for conveniently-spaced dead and injured abandon by all but a few concerned mostly-male 'handlers'. Women among the general population are much more likely to run to the aid of blast victims esp. if other women/children are involved, not men. Sorry - human fact.

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 25, 2017 3:26:24 PM | 15

The above post was based on these supposedly leaked photos of the blast area and 'evidence'. Mostly scrubbed, but mostly useless - they are GOVERNMENT photos, not from the thousands of public digital cameras/cell phones that would have been right there, i.e., independent evidence.

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 25, 2017 3:29:53 PM | 16

Is there a single case where daesh's actions don't coincide with the empire's goals?

Pogo had it right all those years ago .... "we have met the enemy and he is us".

Posted by: woogs | May 25, 2017 3:47:26 PM | 17

When Karma comes back to bite you in the a--e:
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government-sent-british-libyans-fight-gaddafi-1219906488

The British government operated an "open door" policy that allowed Libyan exiles and British-Libyan citizens to join the 2011 uprising that toppled Muammar Gaddafi even though some had been subject to counter-terrorism control orders, Middle East Eye can reveal.

Several former rebel fighters now back in the UK told MEE that they had been able to travel to Libya with "no questions asked" as authorities continued to investigate the background of a British-Libyan suicide bomber who killed 22 people in Monday's attack in Manchester.

Posted by: Yul | May 25, 2017 5:02:54 PM | 18

The Whabbis are only part of the problem. Singling them out is pointing fingers.

It's crucial to recognize the Zionist-Whabbi alliance as described by Sy Hersh in "The Redirection" (back in 2007):

The policy shift has brought Saudi Arabia and Israel into a new strategic embrace, largely because both countries see Iran as an existential threat.

Misdirection:

> ME is in chaos - like always
No, each actor or group of actors have specific objectives

> We must uphold our values
Doublespeak that excuses elite profiteering

> Islam is a religion of hate! /// White bigotry!
Pointing fingers and causing division

> Iran! Russia!
Fearmongering

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 25, 2017 5:08:54 PM | 19

@woogs 17

"we have met the enemy and he is us"

I object to that formulation. I am a secessionist and I believe that all the taxes I pay are stolen from me through the threat of violence. In my eyes all that "taxes are the price of civilization" is a load of hooey.

If someone tries to link me to the empires actions I will certainly not willingly accept those criticisms without being under the threat of force. In this PC environment I will likely be accused of antisemitism, misogyny, homophobia, racism or worse if I express my opinion about what my overseer's are up to, so I am forced to keep my mouth shut simultaneous to be forced to pay taxes used for my own oppression.

Jews, and their feminist kommissars, on the other hand, have a "get out of being called a nazi" card to play at will.

Therefore it is my contention that whereas a jew must actively protest against Zionism and his own peoples claims of racial supremacy and being gods chosen people in order to be able to not be guilty of supremicist attitudes and racism (ie not be called a Nazi); where as us gentiles, due to jewish PC oppression, may remain silent in the face of this onslaught and yet still remain guilt free in the destruction of our "judeo-christian" civilization.

Posted by: Heros | May 25, 2017 5:13:44 PM | 20

Amazing Channel 4 discussion with Manchester Muslim community

"Educators" teaching sharia in Britain ....

Posted by: somebody | May 25, 2017 5:50:08 PM | 21

@21 OK I think I'm getting it now. Just a few rotten apples. Individuals have to be responsible for their own actions. Not one of us. Better education needed. Nobody saw this coming etc. etc..

here's the BBC version...

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40039366/manchester-mosque-attacker-not-one-of-us

Posted by: dh | May 25, 2017 6:04:03 PM | 22

b, 'For the ruling classes in Britain and elsewhere the victims in Manchester are just collateral damage in their quest to rule the world with help of the Wahhabi storm troopers.'

that's the truth, no matter who pushed the button that set off the bomb.

if there was a bomb, if it did explode, and if anyone was actually killed, i suppose. paveway seems to say the whole thing was a fraud, and he is not without his arguments.

no matter what ... 'For the ruling classes in Britain and elsewhere the victims in Manchester are just collateral damage in their quest to rule the world with help of the Wahhabi storm troopers.' ... it's the micron thin film of scum at the top versus humanity, in our masses, bottom-up.

and remember, they're people just like us ... just with too much money and too much power and addicted to the class consciousness and to the shriveled perspective that results from that cursed combination.

Posted by: jfl | May 25, 2017 6:08:27 PM | 23

22
Salman Abedi wanted revenge for US air strikes on Syria sister says

I can see where the argument comes from. But it needs a type of emotional stupidity not to realize extremely decent people got hit who have no say in their country's foreign policy. And it is a complete non identification with the place they live in to say it is a global problem that is everywhere.

Posted by: somebody | May 25, 2017 6:18:43 PM | 24

Paveway IV @15--

Looked for such "public" photos, but not having a "social media" membership found none, but lots of pics of the IRA bombing on Google.

Once upon a time, a driver/pilot was needed to direct the bomb to its target for detonation. But with so many possibilities for remote control, it would seem the need for the suicide driver/pilot is no longer required. The same could be said for IED-type devices as they're always detonated remotely. So, why the need anymore for the bomb-belt? I would think preserving the bomber's life so s/he can commit more acts is more important given the investment in training. But then, I'm rational and value my life, although I'll admit there are circumstances where donning a bomb-belt would be considered rational. But doing so makes no sense for such an operation, or is it considered cowardly to not blow oneself up along with the targets?

It also seems each terrorist bombing narrative share important similarities: Suspects are known and under surveillance, never seek out high value targets like politicians or CEOs which would seem more logical if revenge is the motive; sowing chaos seems counterproductive--aerial terror bombing of civilians has only stiffened their resolve, not made them cower like scared pullets. I recall the desired results for Operation Northwoods mirroring contemporary events, which is why I've written the above. Events like Manchester make it easier to see ISIS as an acronym for Israeli Special Intelligence Service as Zionist terrorists and their handlers have used such tactics for @100 years; yet Daesh has never targeted what ought to be the #1 target of any Islamic terrorist group--Israel.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 25, 2017 6:25:28 PM | 25

b, "'For the ruling classes in Britain and elsewhere the victims in Manchester are just collateral damage in their quest to rule the world with help of the Wahhabi storm troopers.'"

that's the truth, no matter who pushed the button that set off the bomb."

Repetition, but no matter this message is very important - reading the Guardian today one clearly detects that cold assertive grammar pushing the columns. Thierry Meyssan was quickly on to the Theresa May connection in French Voltaire Org Hopefully the destruction of her election now follows.Thanks b.

PS please send me an address where I can send a Postal Order in Euros.

Posted by: Jocelyn Braddell | May 25, 2017 6:34:15 PM | 26

Blowback? So the kid was screened by MI5 to go off and fight with AQ in Libya. MY5 knew exactly what sort of person he was. He was then allowed back into UK and even though reported by other Libyans a number of times, MI5 said "nah he's a good bloke"?
Where MI5 so innocent and trusting then shocked when he blew a few people up? Seems more like he was allowed to roam free in UK with little or no surveillance for a reason, or actually working for or at least in contact with some intelligence agency.
Pat Lang at SST has a post up now on the pecking order of the US/UK IC.

Posted by: Peter AU | May 25, 2017 6:40:21 PM | 27

Now Corbyn speeches get leaked in advance.

Lets see if he actually will say this

Posted by: somebody | May 25, 2017 6:41:11 PM | 28

With latest polls showing he has cut the tory lead down to 5% in the last few days Mr Corbyn has gone 'balls to the wall' by resuming campaigning leading with the meme that British Foreign Policy is a root cause of terror attacks. (I have included two pieces from neoliberal shitrags because it is important to know what is being said in the mainstream to get any sort of handle on this election).

Corbyn knows he will get savaged for this in the Sun/Telegraph/Daily Mail so it is refreshing to see a politician take that risk.

Mr Corbyn pointed out that back in 2011 when parliament voted on whether to bomb Libya he was one of only 12 MPs to oppose that bombing.
He like others in thread has also pointed out that making cuts to frontline policing is not conducive to prevention of attacks, or cutting the health service makes it hard to save lives when shit does happen.
I'm not hugely optimistic but maybe the headlines in a couple of weeks will read "Jeremy pulls it off".

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 25, 2017 6:44:48 PM | 29

woogs @17: "we have met the enemy and he is us"

Another example of mis-direction. Diffusion of responsibility and blaming the victim at the same time.

Ordinary people didn't make the decision to use extremists as a weapon. They are too moral and rational for that. That is why our democracies have been undermined and news is filled with propaganda.

And this is not 'blow-back' of a misguided policy. 'Blow-back' is unforeseen. Does any one seriously believe that Western political elites didn't know that using extremists as a weapon and causing failed states wouldn't lead to terrorism? At the same time, those elites haven't benefited (individually and as a class) from their immoral decisions.

To these elites, Western casualties are nothing more than 'collateral damage'. Here's Madeline Albright to shed some light on elite decision-making:

CBS News: We've heard that half a million Iraqi children have died, is the price worth it?

Albright: We think its worth it.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 25, 2017 7:10:29 PM | 30

typo: haven't benefited ==> have benefited

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 25, 2017 7:11:52 PM | 31

Well I will be damned.

"b" is claiming that if advanced nations murder men, women, and children in the middle east and leave behind the horrific evil of a failed state then Karma might bring horror home to your own country. It is almost as if "b" is claiming that evil begets evil.

Well, he is right you know. But how could the leaders and people of the advanced, industrialized West know that in advance? I mean how could we have known that the people of the middle east might resort to revenge in their grief? And how could we have known that they consider revenge to be a dish best served cold.

Of course one might wonder what the hell to do now that all the mistakes have been made. Step one would be to pull all the western armies out of the middle east and leave those people alone. Then you would have to deport everyone from there back to the middle east. (sad, but if you want Western society to survive it is necessary)

Posted by: Mark Stoval | May 25, 2017 7:33:26 PM | 32

@Mark Stoval #32

" Then you would have to deport everyone from there back to the middle east. (sad, but if you want Western society to survive it is necessary)" Fair enough as long as it is done consistently and thoroughly. All the europeans out of the Jordan Valley North & South America - including of course the failed empire of amerika. Push all the whitefellas outta New Zealand Australia, Polynesia, Singapore, South Africa, Zimbabwe and anywhere else they have infested, that sounds like a capital idea. Off you go get it done.

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 25, 2017 7:51:52 PM | 33

karlof1 25
I have wondered the same. When Team Bush II kept telling us about terrorists among us I wondered why they never targeted Bush's cronies.

As to the actions of May and the Brits as well as the US with the jihadi proxies ... I am reminded of the quote attributed to Forrestal about the US State Dept. If these people (our leaders) were doing these things at random you would expect them to get it right once in a while.

Posted by: Curtis | May 25, 2017 7:53:58 PM | 34

I have to admit irritation at many here that attribute the latest terrorist attack against some western city as a "false flag" or CAI/MI5 conspiracy. Of course I knew that Osama bin Laden was backed by the CIA in Afghanistan. That many of the figures that were backed by the US military in Iraq between 2003-2005 ended up as military commanders for ISIS. Still it seemed then that these military/intelligence agencies were just being stupid.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to attribute western actions to simple stupidity. This latest Manchester event goes well beyond dumb. Great Britain welcomed all of those anti Khadaffi Islamists into England in the 1990s under the pretext of supporting democracy loving political refugees. Even after their children become associated with Al qaida/ISIS affiliated groups they are allowed to travel freely between London/Libya/Syria. What rational motive could Western intelligence agencies have for doing this? Also, if England supported these people because they opposed Khadaffi why these people then begin to attack England? England was their benefactors just a few years before!

I am afraid attempting to answer these questions in any straight-forward manner will lead one into silly sounding conspiracy theories.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 25, 2017 7:56:02 PM | 35

@ ToivoS #35
" What rational motive could Western intelligence agencies have for doing this? "
The inbred assholes who run western 'intelligence' believed that the more discord & anarchy they could create in formerly stable, once peaceful societies such as Iraq & Libya, the easier it would be to profit from them. Even after the Ivy League derps of amerika disproved this the chinless obbridge englanders convinced themselves that was just down to amerikan stupidity & inexperience, they could show how to 'do it' in Libya, after all hadn't they been masters of the largest empire the world has seen?
The Manchester Libyan enclave was set up deliberately with that in mind.
The chinless ones didn't expect there to be any blowback, but nevertheless they ensured the 'wogs' be placed well away from London just in case. Maybe you have to spend time in England to notice it but there is a definite divide between North & South in England.

The englander ruling class has always has never considered the north of england per se, not to mention the people there as being 'not quite up to snuff'.
As far as those assholes go Northerners are all witless fools - trades unionists and the like - there to be exploited but not to be considered

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 25, 2017 8:11:37 PM | 36

Sometimes, I actually think that the US, UK, France, Germany, etc. tolerate the attacks, because in the long run, it justifies the governments' intervention in other countries. They host and support the radicals to overthrow secular governments that are opposed to them. They know the radicals will be a blowback and return to attack the civilians in their country. Then they use that as a further pretext to intervene. It does not take a brain surgeon to know this.

Posted by: Toxik | May 25, 2017 8:16:05 PM | 37

@19 Jackrabbit

Very true...it's easy to get caught up in finger-pointing and over-emphasizing one party's role in the Empire's crooked games.

Posted by: Temporarily Sane | May 25, 2017 8:41:54 PM | 38

Trump rebukes NATO leaders for not paying military bills


Trump had reportedly called on German Chancellor Angela Merkel to pay hundreds of billions of dollars Berlin owes to the NATO.

Trump handed the bill – thought to be for more than £300 billion (US$375 billion) —to Merkel during their March meeting in Washington, DC, the Sunday Times reported, citing an unnamed German minister.


the rump as bill collector for the us mic mafia. careful, it's a dangerous world. if ya don' pay up, yer legs could get broke! or somethin' real nasty might happen to ya after the concert ... if ya get my drift.

the tone-deaf rump seems to be on an all-out suicide mission as 'leader of the free world'.

now that he's found his voice, cleared his throat, at any rate, corbyn needs to add nato to his list of dysfunctional, extractive, impoverishing organizations.

make it up with russia and end the wars of death, devastation, and destruction in the mena.

it ain't rocket science.

Posted by: jfl | May 25, 2017 8:53:13 PM | 39

Trump rebukes NATO leaders for not paying military bills


Trump had reportedly called on German Chancellor Angela Merkel to pay hundreds of billions of dollars Berlin owes to the NATO.

Trump handed the bill – thought to be for more than £300 billion (US$375 billion) —to Merkel during their March meeting in Washington, DC, the Sunday Times reported, citing an unnamed German minister.


the rump as bill collector for the us mic mafia. careful, it's a dangerous world. if ya don' pay up, yer legs could get broke! or somethin' real nasty might happen to ya after the concert ... if ya get my drift.

the tone-deaf rump seems to be on an all-out suicide mission as 'leader of the free world'.

now that he's found his voice, cleared his throat, at any rate, corbyn needs to add nato to his list of dysfunctional, extractive, impoverishing organizations.

make it up with russia and end the wars of death, devastation, and destruction in the mena.

it ain't rocket science.

Posted by: jfl | May 25, 2017 8:57:01 PM | 40

@jfl #40

Did you see the expressions on the faces of amerika's 'allies' when Trump tried to publically castigate them like that? In was revulsion tempered with disdain.
The englander ruling class may enjoy that stuff and are prolly agog in anticipation at the thrashing Madame Lash will mete out upon her return, but the remainder of that sleazy crew of neoliberal asswipes were busy calculating how much of a pushback to amerika's demands they will have to go with before the pissed off public forget this act of coarse ignorance and move on to something else. I predict a regimen of terrorist attacks all round to take european minds off reality sufficiently to get back to the job at hand of screwing the unwashedwhites.

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 25, 2017 10:24:35 PM | 41

@41 did

if they thought about it for a second or two they'd realize that the story is exactly backwards ... what they need to do is ally dump the usofa and themselves with russia to protect themselves from the north americans. collectively they could at once eliminate an 'enemy' and gain a very stalwart friend.

Posted by: jfl | May 25, 2017 10:34:11 PM | 42

karlof1@25 - "...So, why the need anymore for the bomb-belt?"

Why, indeed... unless it's to clean up loose ends and prevent the scopolamined patsy from ratting out their western intelligence handlers. Not that it would have mattered. If the guy would have just left his incredibly weak backpack bomb somewhere, he would eventually have been tracked down and unfortunately killed just before he could have been taken into custody. Isn't it always that way?

The spooks are still pissed off that their patsy Tsarnev didn't bleed out in the boat like they expected in Boston.

Posted by: PavewayIV | May 25, 2017 10:43:12 PM | 43

@7 karlof1

That IS would pull off a major offensive while Duerte is in Russia is shocking I tell you.....simply shocking :s

Posted by: Sad Canuck | May 25, 2017 10:50:20 PM | 44

This is pretty bad - Iraqi troops and torture


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/deepdive/brian-ross-investigates-the-torture-tapes-47429895

Posted by: aaaa | May 26, 2017 12:45:17 AM | 45

@45 Much like Boko Haram was set up as a leverage tool against Goodluck Jonathan if he would ever change the status quo about oil contracts not going to China, ISIL in the Philippines (Mauro front actually) serves as a reminder to Eastern leaning Duterte's ambition to not replace ex colonial US by Russia or China. Except that the Tarking effect is actually achieving what the Empire does not want. Oh the irony..

Posted by: Lozion | May 26, 2017 12:48:11 AM | 46

@36


The inbred assholes who run western 'intelligence' believed that the more discord & anarchy they could create in formerly stable, once peaceful societies such as Iraq & Libya, the easier it would be to profit from them.

The plan has worked so well overseas that they have decided to implement it at home.

Posted by: Bolt | May 26, 2017 1:07:37 AM | 47

@47 Did Yar'Adua have a prior history of illness? He struck me as less corrupt than Jonathan, and had a bit too much of a secular interest (highschool chemistry teacher) to be acceptable as a Muslim leader per the west's requirements. I suspect, and have stated elsewhere, that the (now successful) effort to unseat Jammeh (I wouldn't be surprised if foul play occurred in the ballot counting) was to open Gambia up for shipping Angolan arms to Boko Haram. Firstly, Nigeria arrested a ship from Angola, with a manifest not corresponding to the actual freight (at Port Harcourt). The ship was operated by Glencore Holdings, which had shipped Russian weapons to Angola after the fall of the Soviet Union, had arrived at Port Harcourt from Angola, and had a largely Gruzian and Ukrainian crew. Glencore had been caught shortly before shipping Irani oil in violation of the sanctions, so my working hypothesis is that they were blackmailed into shipping Angolan used Russian weapons to Boko Haram, so as to implicate Russia in BH---witness the recent Taleban accusations against Russia. Look at a map of Gambia---the Senegal highway 4 bisects the country (a ferry crosses the river iirc), and the river is navigable by ocean going vessels for most of its length. From highway 4 (Dakar coastal highway to Lagos) one can easily go north, then take the Dakar Maidaguri highway, or even the coastal highway in a pinch, and travel north within Nigeria. Another route would be to follow the river to where it crosses into Senegal, and take either a short overland route or even a highway directly from the Gambia river. See the linked comment and following comments, including on subsequent pages. If I am correct, this suggests US culpability in the Chibok matter.

Posted by: johan meyer | May 26, 2017 1:34:22 AM | 48

Heros@20 - Jackrabbit@30: Perhaps instead of quoting Pogo, I should have paraphrased and said, "I have met the enemy and he is me" since I am not physically doing anything about it.

Guess I'm alone in that, right? Probably should at least buy a Russian flag and fly it. Maybe get one of those al-CIAeda bumper stickers or a "honk if you're tired of stupid wars" one.

Posted by: woogs | May 26, 2017 1:35:18 AM | 49

Gaddafi Warned of CIA-Sponsored Islamic Terror in Europe 6 Years Ago
http://thoughtcrimeradio.net/2017/05/gaddafi-warned-of-cia-sponsored-islamic-terror-in-europe-6-years-ago/

Posted by: Anonn | May 26, 2017 1:37:55 AM | 50

Actually, the relevant comments started a page or more before.

Posted by: johan meyer | May 26, 2017 1:42:57 AM | 51

Forgot to add---Herman Cohen, who made death threats representative of Zimbabwe and Angola.

Posted by: johan meyer | May 26, 2017 1:49:59 AM | 52

Does anyone think that with all these revelations being leaked to the US media (probably by the FBI, since that's likely to be the organisation working with the British police on the Manchester pop concert attack, and Donald Trump sacked FBI director James Comey for not investigating FBI leaks as he should have but instead continuing to pursue the Russiagate investigation even when it was yielding no results) about Salman Ramadan Abedi's connections to the anti-Ghaddafi Libyan rebel community and its cultivation by MI5, to the extent that MI5 promised the rebels all sorts of freebies if they would help overthrow Ghaddafi, that this whole shebang will blow up in Theresa May's face (since she was the Home Secretary who must have signed off on this idiotic and dangerous project) and cause her to lose the upcoming general election?

Phew, that must be the longest of long sentences I've ever posted to this site.

What poetic justice this could be, that this incident might have been partly staged, to be blamed on a patsy whose identity could have been stolen, to help save the Tories from defeat but instead drives them and May into electoral oblivion?

Posted by: Jen | May 26, 2017 1:50:15 AM | 53

Hermam Cohen made death threats against Habyarimana.

Posted by: johan meyer | May 26, 2017 1:53:15 AM | 54

@54 I was attacked on this site some years ago for suggesting growing incompetence (North American usage) among the NATO elite, and for suggesting that their various schemes will become ever more poorly considered over the next few years, on account of infant lead poisoning induced idiocy. It is very satisfying to see this in action.

Forgive my pleasure at others' suffering, but the poetic justice is even richer---these clowns are destroying their own nominal countries, with nowhere left to which to run. While the respective populations will suffer, said populations do passively acquiesce by and large to the criminal conduct of their respective governments, and they do not even have a declared war that could lead to a surrender and consequent improvement of government.

Unless and until these populations decide upon a change of course, their conditions will worsen---a most perverse representative popular sovereignty. I too will suffer this worsening of living conditions, but I do so with the knowledge that it is on account of my failure to motivate others to a different course.

Posted by: johan meyer | May 26, 2017 2:09:32 AM | 55

Syria all over.. and the MB in Gaza in 2009
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/25/small-part-of-manchester-that-has-been-home-to-16-jihadis

The UK has been needy of Gulf money all the way since the 70s, now with Brexit they are really in a corner. Why not asking their elite to start working for real, instead of just buying and selling other people's appartments or playing with wind in the stock exchange?

Slavery (on the other thread) is very much the topic.

Posted by: Mina | May 26, 2017 3:24:13 AM | 56

@woogs

Sorry if I misunderstood woods. I see people conflating the people and the elite all the time. Even smart, well meaning people can make that mistake.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 26, 2017 3:33:45 AM | 57

There must be an agenda (which is already very open): the French MSM simply NEVER talk about Corbyn. Even in the last 2-3 days.

Posted by: Mina | May 26, 2017 3:54:48 AM | 58

too many conspiracy theories makes my head sore.. tell me this.. do they all have to be inside jobs? is it not possible these whackjobs blowing up innocent people in syria and etc, could also do the same in the country they originated in? or does it always have to be set up by m16 and etc? serious question.. i am busy and hopefully will gleam some grizzled and intelligent response.. thanks.

Posted by: james | May 26, 2017 4:01:24 AM | 59

A little snapet of the propaganda we'll hear more and more of these days
"The Saudis and Turks wanted to replace Assad with a reliable Sunni client, while Iran and Hezbollah held fast to their one foothold in the Arab world. "
in an article that claims to be balanced
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/24/magazine/aleppo-after-the-fall.html?_r=2

Except that Hezbollah is composed of Lebanese Shiites who have been there for a thousand of years or so (and more, if you want to count them before they became Shiite)

Posted by: Mina | May 26, 2017 4:02:52 AM | 60

There seems to be a lot happening all at once. In Syria, jihadists contained in the de-escalation zones and keeping occupied by shooting each other. SAA rolling over ISIS in eastern Syria and pushing back US proxies at the Iraq border. reports of Russian planes twice intercepting US planes over southern Syria and SAA and allies flying Russian flags.
A Libyan jihadist known to intelligence bombs Manchester and NATO joins the US coalition, even though all the countries that make up NATO are part of the coalition.
Then there's the ISIS attack in Philippines where they have taken over a city, a couple of bombings in Indonesia. And elections in UK.
What fits together in all this and what is coincidence?

Posted by: Peter AU | May 26, 2017 4:24:41 AM | 61

@woogs 50

"Perhaps instead of quoting Pogo, I should have paraphrased and said, "I have met the enemy and he is me" since I am not physically doing anything about it."

The vast majority of Americans agree without qualms to their state's guilt when they are presented with evidence of their state's 150 years of war crimes or crimes against humanity. It cannot be denied. Yet these same people will grovel to the modern imperial storm troopers "honoring them for their service" and go out on the 4th of July and wave the flag. They might even stand up when the anthem is played at a local school sports event. They still believe that they have the right to destroy the lives of millions of North Koreans and Iranians to prevent them from getting the same bomb that the US used unnecessarily twice against an already crushed Japan.

My own extended family are this way, and it illustrates a stunning degree of cognitive dissonance. I do not enjoy being around them any more because I cannot express my opinions and am forced to live in their US propaganda bubble.

So I resist this evil state on every level that I can, from avoiding providing it with taxes or other income to not investing in its mega-corporate system to not listening to its propaganda.

But the question you pose is "is Physical Resistance a requirement for a person to be absolved of guilt for the actions of the state to which he is a citizen?". I would tend to agree with that statement and add that it is a natural right for a person to be able to drop citizenship of any country he doesn't want to associate with. But I am a secessionist, what else would I say.

Posted by: Heros | May 26, 2017 4:50:42 AM | 62

Posted by: james | May 26, 2017 4:01:24 AM | 60

The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group was used by MI6 in Libya. If MI6 are not informed on what they are up to they are sleeping whilst on duty.

Lots of what some people consider conspiracies are more what people don't do than what people do.
The traffic between the UK, Libya and Syria was known and supported from the UK. That this network could be compromised to come home and bite the UK was a risk security services took.

Posted by: somebody | May 26, 2017 4:53:27 AM | 63

@64 -- "...was a risk security services took."

... and did not manage properly (or did they)?

There are a few new young virgins in paradise who may not think so.

Posted by: x | May 26, 2017 5:14:20 AM | 64

Strange things going on, indeed.
Posted today at Telepolis a link to this very article here at MoA, together with a link to yesterdays article published at Voltairenet, asking myself the question, if this tragic event in Manchester was a Blowback, or actually a even more horrible incident, organized by deep/shadow-state parallel type structures. My post was immediately erased, what is very, very strange for Telepolis (at: heise.de/tp).
Looks like someone is trying to prevent, that information from MoA is shared.

Posted by: maningi | May 26, 2017 5:23:46 AM | 65

@62: end-of-cycle times.


The body is never more alive than when it is dead; but it is alive in its units, and dead in its totality; alive as a congeries, dead as an organism. (Annie Besant)


https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/anniebesan532806.html

Posted by: x | May 26, 2017 5:25:02 AM | 66

@40 @41

Conflict between Europe and America dominates NATO summit


Significantly, German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel made it to the NATO meeting only by cutting short a visit to China. Shortly after his appointment to the post of foreign minister, which came just a week after Trump’s inauguration, Gabriel announced the creation of an Asia strategy to “exploit the spaces vacated by America.”

Ahead of the Brussels meeting, Gabriel began a coordinated offensive against US foreign policy with Martin Schulz, the SPD (Social Democratic Party of Germany) candidate for chancellor. Both criticized the US demand for Germany’s defence spending to be increased to 2 percent of GDP by 2024. There would be “absolutely no way to double military spending in Germany,” Gabriel said in an interview, adding that he had “no idea what we would spend the money on.”

In an op-ed published in Der Spiegel titled “Invest in peace—not weapons,” Schulz warned, “The debate about NATO’s alleged 2 percent goal” revealed “a dangerous tendency.” It would “mean almost a doubling of Germany’s annual defence budget to a gigantic €70 billion.” He then hypocritically asked, “Did the founding fathers have this picture of Germany in front of them in 1949? United, firmly integrated in Europe, surrounded by friends and partners—but armed to the teeth?”

At the same time, Schulz demanded an expansion of Europe’s defence policy and the creation of a European army dominated by Germany: Europe had to “finally make progress on the EU’s joint security and defence policy. Together with our partners in the EU, who are pursuing the same goal, we want to agree on the foundation of a European defence union.” The “exit from the EU of Britain, which always blocked progress in this area,” provides “new opportunities” along these lines.


the germans need the russians in their 'alliance' ... to act as a good example ... to hold them back and calm them down ... they, together with micron and patrons seem to envision a new age of european imperialism, one wherein the germans get theirs, this time. but there's room in russia for all of europe and then some.

meanwhile the rump is sleepwalking through the destruction of all wall street and the cia have worked for, before the wherewithal to accomplish same slipped through their fingers, and hot-blooded neocon fervor replaced with ardor their cold-blooded reptilian creep.

Posted by: jfl | May 26, 2017 5:41:53 AM | 67

Posted by: jfl | May 26, 2017 5:41:53 AM | 68

Militarily they won't. If Trump throws German cars out of the US they will bend over backwards to enter the Russian car market though.

Posted by: somebody | May 26, 2017 6:00:17 AM | 68

Somebody 69

The Voltswagen cheating on emissions thing in the US, hit the media within a week of Voltswagen opening an engine plant in Russia that was to supply most of their cars with engines.

Posted by: Peter AU | May 26, 2017 6:11:44 AM | 69

The article on the Volkswagen engine plant here
https://www.rt.com/business/314820-volkswagen-russia-engine-plant/

Posted by: Peter AU | May 26, 2017 6:15:08 AM | 70

@69

first things first. it is only the usofa that makes military alliances paramount. ordinary countries seek cooperation, and commerce, first and build on that. russia requires zero military bases in germany.

Posted by: jfl | May 26, 2017 6:16:36 AM | 71

71 It is small money compared to North American sales

And yes, they produce in Mexico.

Posted by: somebody | May 26, 2017 6:50:37 AM | 72

@74

yes a small step ... the journey of a thousand miles begins such ... it must be really 'getting old' to have the us military in germany ... and everywhere else in europe. especially now with the madness of king don ... or his puppeteers. time for a change.

oh, look, at that marvelously huge [empty] country right next door ... so full of every imaginable resource, so much 'in need' of german/european finance and 'ingenuity' ... it's a no brainer ... all the europeans need do is to buffer russian from the mad americans ... unfortunately there seem literally to be no brains capable of independent thought in europa.

but maybe that's what the rothschilds have in mind.

Posted by: jfl | May 26, 2017 7:07:45 AM | 73

If journalists could stop projecting their own greed on people who simply offered them their story it might also help in bridging the gaps between communities. I feel nauseous after I read this in the NYT article on Aleppo :"Later, he said, the same group admitted its guilt and offered blood money, which the family refused to take. This seemed less plausible." First he doesn't explain that indeed no matter the talks about so-called jihad here or so-called mondernity there, people have this kind of tribal laws still at work and that this actually dominates the Arab world is of course never mentioned. Second and much worse of course, he accuses his interlocutor of being a liar simply out of pure ignorance that refusing the blood money is very current and that it means that the party of the victim wants the responsible to be "judged by God" rather than accepting money which would signify that "they drop the case" or understand it might have been a mistake.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/24/magazine/aleppo-after-the-fall.html

Posted by: Mina | May 26, 2017 7:50:17 AM | 75

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Posted by: mclennan | May 26, 2017 8:05:46 AM | 76

Posted by: jfl | May 26, 2017 7:07:45 AM | 75

naa, making it a fairy tale does not equate reality.

Russia is not really interested in German cars, notice that VW had to 'localize' to get a foot into the door. Russia got cars of their own. Putin is doing some kind of economic protectionism, same as Trump is trying to to.
Germany will have to get rid of Schäuble and invest in Europe which is what every economist is telling them to do.

Posted by: somebody | May 26, 2017 8:10:09 AM | 77

@79 sb

i'm sure you know more about all of this than i do, but it must be apparent to all that the us is on the way down - and accelerating - and that europe must come to terms with russia, and that war is the most imbecilic of the alternative ways to come to terms, that it can benefit no one, not even those in the usofa, who would have the europeans fight it for them. again.

Posted by: jfl | May 26, 2017 8:25:16 AM | 78

Call it division of work, you don't see many British djihadis on the Syrian videos (https://freespeechdefense.net/2017/05/i-wonder-why-this-is-being-censored/)
were they sent mainly to Libya? While the French/Belgians would be reserved for Syria? on the video France appears up in the list with the US-Qatar-Turkish commande.

Posted by: Mina | May 26, 2017 8:30:24 AM | 79

Posted by: jfl | May 26, 2017 8:25:16 AM | 80

You seem to be under the impression that Europe is on a collision course with Russia - so much propaganda - they are not.

BREXIT has shifted EU decision power from Germany to France and Italy. Merkel visited Putin recently, Macron will shortly, Italy sent the bones of St Nicholas from Bari to Moscow :-))

They deal with Putin one by one - not united as EU. Possibly Trump will frighten them enough to get an EU military force going - it won't amount to much though - noone wants to spend much, noone wants to serve.

Posted by: somebody | May 26, 2017 8:56:41 AM | 80

@69 Somebody

FWIW:Mercedes Benz has a plant in Alabama and BMW has a plant in SC. Where will these Americans work , should Trump act on his 'threat"?

Posted by: Yul | May 26, 2017 9:00:29 AM | 81

@66 maningi

That whole fake news site list which was fake a few months ago had a twofold role: to discredit immediately and to restrict access/block in the future. Really genius of them, because at some level, people know that what they are putting out (i.e the fake news list) is bullshit, but unconsciously an "x" is marked against the name of sites like this for posterity readers. This along with a continued organized effort of shills and trolls campaigning against sensible foreign policy and you have the perfect weapon and one in which TPTB can dissociate themselves from: although they are in effect signing the checks of corporate media, they can still claim that, "hey, that's the private sector. What are you gonna do?"

Whether locally through your neighborhood media website, such as oregonlive, which I frequent, the schills come out in droves, and they once blocked a link I posted regarding arming of AL Quaeda through weapon seizures and transfers from recently "lubricated" Libya.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | May 26, 2017 9:13:03 AM | 82

Posted by: Yul | May 26, 2017 9:00:29 AM | 83

Yep. Also, will American consumers be able to afford their lifestyle if products with cheap labor cost do not get imported. Where in the supply chain do you stop.

There is no way to deglobalize an economy without pain. Capitalism cannot solve the problems of people made redundant. You need solidarity.

The US has the highest GDP per Capita in the World. Where is the problem?

Posted by: somebody | May 26, 2017 9:21:03 AM | 83

Wahhabism was started and fed with money and intelligence from British secret services from the start. When you lead the opposition, you are in control. And what a wonderful tool to pour oil on the fire between Sunni and Shia. It is the same people: 1. who use Wahhabism as a tool , 2. Isis/Daesh as a tool, 3. and Zionism as a tool.

Posted by: John | May 26, 2017 9:26:20 AM | 84

>>>> karlof1 | May 25, 2017 6:25:28 PM | 25

Once upon a time, a driver/pilot was needed to direct the bomb to its target for detonation. But with so many possibilities for remote control, it would seem the need for the suicide driver/pilot is no longer required.
After all the large IRA vehicle bombs, it's fairly difficult to get your hands on the right fertilisers in the UK unless you're a farmer, so it would be difficult for a terrorist to construct a large SVBIED and use it.
The same could be said for IED-type devices as they're always detonated remotely.
First you have to get them into place and that would be difficult at a reasonably secure site like the Manchester Arena. Someone installing and IED would be pretty bloody obvious.
So, why the need anymore for the bomb-belt?
Because that's all they could do - see above.
I would think preserving the bomber's life so s/he can commit more acts is more important given the investment in training.
What training? Walking into the target and pressing a button. Not exactly difficult. The skills are all with the bomb maker not the bomber which is why the bomb maker rarely if ever carries out the bombing.
But doing so makes no sense for such an operation, or is it considered cowardly to not blow oneself up along with the targets?
It's more that it's the only way that the bombing will work - the British are fairly bomb aware so it's likely that any suspect packets be reported and dealt with by the authorities. And in this instance the lines of sight from place the bomb was detonated - a internal space outside the arena building itself means that there is little chance of remote detonation and maximising casualties.
never seek out high value targets like politicians or CEOs which would seem more logical if revenge is the motive
Because they typically have better security and if a single CEO dies, who really cares except his family; killing 22 members of the public is far more effective terrorism.
Events like Manchester make it easier to see ISIS as an acronym for Israeli Special Intelligence Service as Zionist terrorists and their handlers have used such tactics for @100 years; yet Daesh has never targeted what ought to be the #1 target of any Islamic terrorist group--Israel.

Unlike the United States, British politicians largely kiss Israeli arses because it looks good in Washington, not because they live in fear of Zionists.

As for all the conspiracy shit, it may be a conspiracy but I really doubt some deep state organisation planned the bombing. The conspiracy is quite visible and concerns the US and UK's use of jihadists to further their political aims. These twats need to understand that while the jihadists and their handlers from Qatar, Saudi Arabia, etc. may be the enemies of our supposed enemies, Syria, Iran, Russia, etc. they actually hate the west just as much if not more.

Posted by: Ghostship | May 26, 2017 9:34:43 AM | 85

@82 sb

i think you're right on my take of europe vs russia ... but i go by the eu, and they are the slaves of the usofa. i do hope that individual european countries do deal with russia outside that framework. certainly each individual country can devine its own interest.

@85 'The US has the highest GDP per Capita in the World. Where is the problem?'

but as michael hudson points out most of that gdp is in 'funny money' churned by the financial sector, churned and counted as though it's real. it's all debt. levered and relevered and levered again. it all 'counts' as money until the defaults start ... then the dollar drops and gdp along with it. debts that cannot be repaid will not be repaid. they're all whistling past the graveyard. one of these nights those sleepless spirits will fly out to more than haunt us all. gdps will no longer be calculated in us dollars.

Posted by: jfl | May 26, 2017 9:42:57 AM | 86

@87, gs, 'The conspiracy is quite visible and concerns the US and UK's use of jihadists to further their political aims.'

that's the truth, and cannot be said too often.

'These twats need to understand that while the jihadists and their handlers from Qatar, Saudi Arabia, etc. may be the enemies of our supposed enemies, Syria, Iran, Russia, etc. they actually hate the west just as much if not more.'

you think they don't? they understand that very well. they reap the 'benefits' of these terror attacks both coming and going. they probably tell themselves there's nothing they can do ... that terror has a life of its own. that's what they tell all of us, at any rate. they have created and sustain the terror. it is their product. globalized. produced by the lowest cost labor. it's all the same weft and warp.

Posted by: jfl | May 26, 2017 9:52:03 AM | 87

Just a quick one but since it claims to be about ISIS I will stick it here. I dunno if anyone has been paying much heed to the situation which developed in a corner of the island of Mindanao in the Philippines over the past coupla days. I've always had a soft spot for the people down there who are generous to a fault but who dislike imperialism in any form Spanish, American, Japanese, amerikan again & then Luzonese, they brook no shit from people who try to be their boss.
When I visited people were generally either old school animist or followers of Islam which had been introduced by Arab merchants hundreds of years ago. There were some xtians but local opposition to invaders meant they only had a toehold although Luzonese blowins are just about all Catholic.
The dispute is more about immigration than religion - something that isn't talked about in a media keen to provoke a religious dispute to have westerners believe those muslims are up to no good again.
It looks like the cops/army fucked up and went after alleged 'isis kingpin' & Abu Sayyaf organizer one Isnilon Hapilon, the fact that the fucked up raid took place while young prez Duterte was in Moscow makes me wonder if the amerikans decided to stir the pot while Duterte was outta town.
Duterte was a pol on Mindanao before becoming prez and he came to national attention because he had a working truce going down there Mindanao went peaceful for the first time in half a century maybe longer, messing all that up with a raid doesn't sound like it was his idea esp since he didn't hang around to make sure it went off ok.

Anyway alla that is pretty self evident I just thought I would share a particularly cognitively dissonent take from a graun fake news piece on the situation.

The local lawyer who seems responsible for kicking it all off says this in the graun 'article'
"Calida called the violence an “invasion by foreign terrorists, who heeded the call of Isis to go to the Philippines if they find difficulty in going to Iraq and Syria”.

OK so all the gunmen are foreigners they are absolutely not locals pissed at the way that before Duterte came to power it was central government policy to transport hundreds of thousands of Luzonese to their island especially those considered 'problematic'.
They are certainly not locals getting back into the groove of being peaceable because no one is harrassing them any longer.

But then the article tells us two pars down:
"he assigned military spokesman for Marawi, said soldiers were bogged down in the urban terrain, familiar to the Maute gunmen who are believed to have grown up in the area. The militants are also heavily armed, he said."

Facts what facts eh? the amerikans are trying to get Duterte into line & stop him making friendly with China & Russia so they pay off some greedy lawyer working in the prosecutors office to light the fuse. I dunno how they imagine that will work given their hype & spin machine can't keep the story straight across a few paragraphs.

Duterte will be pissed, he's not stupid enough to say so & will push out his own bullshit while he fixes the mess, but I cannot see this fuck up endearing him sufficiently to favour amerika's ballyhooyed "pivot to asia'.

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 26, 2017 9:53:55 AM | 88

81

Beginning World War I. They existed before.

The benefit of division in the Middle East – a key point in all these documents – was also recognised by the foreign department of the British government of India: ‘What we want’, it stated, ‘is not a United Arabia, but a weak and disunited Arabia, split up into little principalities so far as possible under our suzerainty – but incapable of coordinated action against us, forming a buffer against the Powers in the West.’ ... British officials had been split on who to champion as the leader of the revolt against the Turks – the British government of India had feared British sponsorship of an Arab caliph who would lead the entire Muslim world, and the effects this might have on Muslims in India, and had therefore favoured Ibn Saud, whose pretensions were limited to Arabia.

In contrast to Hussein’s orthodox Sunnism, the future founder of Saudi Arabia sat at the head of an ultra-conservative Sunni revivalist movement, now known as Wahhabism, which professed a strict adherence to the tenets of Islam, and which had developed in the eighteenth century based on the teaching of the theologian, Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahhab, born in 1703. Ibn Saud’s military forces were the Ikhwani, or Brotherhood, a militia of Bedouin tribesmen instructed by religious teachers who were committed to the purification of Islam and the advancement of government based on strict Islamic law...
In 1919 London used aircraft in the Hijaz in support of Hussein’s confrontation with Ibn Saud. It was to little avail: after accepting a temporary ceasefire in 1920, Ibn Saud’s 150,000-strong Ikhwani advanced relentlessly, and by the mid-1920s had gained control of Arabia, including the Hijaz and the Holy Places, defeating Hussein for supremacy in the region. Ibn Saud established ‘Saudi’ Arabia in an orgy of murder. In his exposé of the corruption of the Saudi ruling family, Said Aburish describes Ibn Saud as ‘a lecher and a bloodthirsty autocrat … whose savagery wreaked havoc across Arabia’, terrorising and mercilessly slaughtering his enemies. The conquest of Arabia cost the lives of around 400,000 people, since Saud’s forces did not take prisoners; over a million people fled to neighbouring countries. Numerous rebellions against the House of Saud subsequently took place, each put down in ‘mass killings of mostly innocent victims, including women and children’. By the mid-1920s most of Arabia had been subdued, 40,000 people had been publicly executed and some 350,000 had had limbs amputated; the territory was divided into districts under the control of Saud’s relatives, a situation which largely prevails today.

Posted by: somebody | May 26, 2017 9:59:33 AM | 89

89 add from the link above

The British recognised Ibn Saud’s control of Arabia, and by 1922 his subsidy was raised to £100,000 a year by Colonial Secretary Winston Churchill. At the same time, Churchill described Ibn Saud’s Wahhabis as akin to the present-day Taliban, telling the House of Commons in July 1921 that they were ‘austere, intolerant, well-armed and bloodthirsty’ and that ‘they hold it as an article of duty, as well as of faith, to kill all who do not share their opinions and to make slaves of their wives and children. Women have been put to death in Wahhabi villages for simply appearing in the streets. It is a penal offence to wear a silk garment. Men have been killed for smoking a cigarette.’ However, Churchill also later wrote that ‘my admiration for him [Ibn Saud] was deep, because of his unfailing loyalty to us’, and the British government set about consolidating its grip on this loyalty

Posted by: somebody | May 26, 2017 10:01:38 AM | 90

One question would be: why did this group of Takfiris (perpetrators of the Manchester atrocity) pick this particular moment to turn on its British patron?

Possibly related(?): This follows directly in the wake of a massacre in Libya conducted by UN (read US/British/NATO) sponsored assets. Is there a connection here? Might this suicide bombing be a direct payback, as opposed to a (delayed) blowback?

Posted by: ACitizen | May 26, 2017 10:26:11 AM | 91

Well said, Mr. Corbyn.

Now, if only The Donald had made clear that the US, through oh so many ways, was supporting and encouraging terrorists, then we might have some change here in the US foreign policy.

So far, whatever, tidbits Trump nibbled on and liked from Brannon's thinking that might have made him really reconsider US foreign policy seem to have done nothing.

All those times I tried to tell myself that there might be some good to come out of Trump's win are, well, blown away.

Posted by: jawbone | May 26, 2017 10:26:40 AM | 92

91 I have been wondering. I came up with the following possible explanations

- The Islamic faction losing against Haftar and crying intervention - this would depend on Theresa May to do a Bush and vow to fight terrorism in Libya
- Saudi trying to influence the election
- Saudi signaling that the Muslim Brotherhood networks need be closed
- Syria/Egypt/whoever signaling that the Muslim Brotherhood networks need be closed
- ISIS trying to remain relevant as bogeyman, for funding, recruitment, whatever
- young kids in a vulnerable age and in search of an identity acting out an existential death wish
- young kids in a vulnerable age suffering from PTSD

Posted by: somebody | May 26, 2017 10:42:17 AM | 93

Dismaying that the W ‘public’ appears to accept the hypocritical and confused stories touted.

They are to fear ‘islamic terrorism’, ‘djihadism’, ‘radical muslim attackers’, be paranoid about the enemy within, etc. as re. this attack. (Serves to boost and pay for local security, make ppl subservient and afraid, instore controls, elect pro-punishment pols, up arms budgets, etc.)

Yet, fighting Daesh / ISIL / AlQ etc. is low priority. Talk about it is never implemented and anyone with half a brain can see that it is duplicitous or ‘fake’. Does this bother ppl? Not enough to create any kind of action.

Ppl can report their Muslim neighbors for bad smells or wearing veils or whatever, wait on line and be searched for ‘security’, be subject to random arrests, etc. and at the same time swear that Assad is a bloody dictator, Iran a hot-bed of aggro that wants to nuke Israel, Putin an evil schemer torturer, killer…

It’s amazing, and imho US citizens are the most credulous ****. The French (no free media there) and the Japanese (a bit better hardly?) are more astute. And those who know what is going on just duck down and hope for survival, they are ‘smarter’! that! will save them! (not.)

I’m not bashing Joe - Jane, Aurelie - Raoul...(W) The problem is the role of the media is not taken on.

The PTB won’t allow it, so squash it, and none of the mildly critical of the PTB, or the allowed opponents (say UPR in France, US media critics…), will do anything about it. They can’t. The internet has helped a lot, but of course far less than hoped/expected. Repression + the need to conform have even in a way been augmented. Nobody takes this issue on, while say impeaching/getting rid of Trump (for ex.) can be part of discourse. The key to change, of the positive type, though ppls visions may differ, is In first place wresting away the power of the dominant media. That is the kernel, the heart. Somehow …not on front stage…


Posted by: Noirette | May 26, 2017 10:51:31 AM | 94

@92 I wouldn't totally dismiss Trump yet.. Ultimately he hasn't done much but talk. Sure, civilians are being bombed along with ISIL, etc in near-indiscriminate airstrikes, and Syrian military have been targeted three times under his watch, but the bigtime decisions to wage war have not (yet) come.

If we end up in major war then he is totally to blame. Until then, we can only hope that his ego will be chafed enough by his chickenhawk detractors that he will focus on waging domestic battles rather than foreign wars

Posted by: aaaa | May 26, 2017 11:00:34 AM | 95

ACitizen @91, Somebody @93

There may be other reasons for the attack but I think the fact that it occurred on the 4th anniversary of the Murder of British Soldier Lee Rigby is important.

The murder of Rigby was extraordinary and received a great deal of media coverage. The assailants railed against British actions in Muslim lands and urged British citizens to turn against their government saying:

You people will never be safe. Remove your governments, they don’t care about you... Do you think politicians are going to die? No, it's going to be the average guy, like you and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring our troops back … leave our lands and you will live in peace.

The potential link to the Rigby attack seems to be getting very little coverage. Probably because it demonstrates to the British people exactly what the Ribby attackers claimed: the establishment doesn't care about the people - our deaths are just 'collateral damage' for policies that they are committed to seeing through. No democratic choice will be allowed.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | May 26, 2017 11:44:54 AM | 96

@63 somebody... thanks.. at least one person responded!

you state "Libyan Islamic Fighting Group was used by MI6 in Libya. If MI6 are not informed on what they are up to they are sleeping whilst on duty." tell me somebody.. do they lock up all these previous mercenaries, or what? how do they deal with these assets turned liabilities?? this still doesn't say it was an inside job, only that m16 would have been aware of this guy (along with many others) and would be given a choice of monitoring him 24/7, or detaining him indefinitely.. i wouldn't call that sleeping on the job, unless one is supposed to be in a 24/7 job with every whackjob the uk was willing to use to overthrow gaddaffi.

Posted by: james | May 26, 2017 12:13:08 PM | 97

@88 Well said debs, I too visited Mindanao years ago.. This never ending conflict was on the verge of finally be put to rest and just as Duterte says enough of US influence, it flares up. No coincidence here. And to make an analogy to Nigeria and Boko Haram, Obama turned down Jonathan's request to purchase military helicopters to get rid of Hakam once and for all. Why would he refuse a juicy contract? Well, you know..

Posted by: Lozion | May 26, 2017 1:21:23 PM | 98

@98 Hakam should read Haram, of course..

Posted by: Lozion | May 26, 2017 1:22:54 PM | 99

Paul Craig Roberts:
„Speaking of cover stories, I wonder if that is what we are witnessing in the leaked information to the New York Times about the Manchester Bombing. The only point of the leak is to set the story in place. The British complaints about the leaked information serve to disguise the leak’s purpose.

Setting a story in place early crowds out other explanations. Remember, the government claims to have had no warning of 9/11 but knew instantly who did it and set the story in place. The same for the Paris events, the Nice event, the Boston Marathon bombing, etc.

Authorities quickly come up with a story and names of those responsible. The alleged perpetrators or patsies, take your choice, are always dead and, thereby, unable to deny that they did it or say who put them up to it …“

PCR is just stating the obvious here …

I can’t believe that the respected author of this blog falls for the Manchester cover-story … the „blowback“ scam is exactly what they want us to believe … and people fall for it because it fits so well into the established frame

All these media „informations“ about the alleged perpetrator (who looks like a complete imbecile on the grainy photos I’ve seen) and his father are coming from the same – completely unreliable – source: the intel agencies who fabricated the terror-groups in the first place ..… (and so close to an election, this is what the "strategy of tension" is all about)

„There is no threat, WE are the threat“ (Oliver Stone)

For a reality-based, thorough analysis of the „Islamist terror“ PSYOP – pls try this:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/12/how-the-west-created-the-islamic-state/
https://newint.org/features/2009/10/01/blowback-extended-version/ (a long read - but very important)

„If the ‘war on terror’ is to end, it won’t be won by fighting the next futile oil war. It will be won at home by holding the secretive structures of government to account and prosecuting officials for aiding and abetting terrorism – whether knowingly or by criminal negligence. Ultimately only this will rein in the ‘security’ agencies that foster the ‘enemy’ we are supposed to be fighting.“

By accident I discovered a true analytical gem about how the US opened up „a new (fictitious) front“ in the „war on terror“ in Northern Africa“ to justify the militarization of the mineral-rich parts of continent:

http://www.berghahnjournals.com/view/journals/focaal/2006/48/focaal480111.xml (click on „pdf“)

The author reveals that what the media had „reported“ about it, was “a remarkably well-constructed narrative of disinformation“ (in other words complete BS)… 3,000 unverified articles appeared …all sourced to the same „officials“ …

the same applies to the Manchester „incident“ and all the others … since the alleged perp always ends up dead, there is no trial, no independent investigation, no credible evidence that would hold up in court …

I just watched a documentary about the „strange death of Dr. David Kelly“ (B-weapons-inspector in Iraq)

https://www.corbettreport.com/requiem-for-the-suicided-dr-david-kelly/

which demonstrates how the collusion of the British authorities prevented a thorough investigation (coroner’s inquest) in a „suicide“ case where the blood-stained knife (supposedly used by Dr. Kelly to cut his own wrist) had NO fingerprints on it …
no matter how absurd the official story is, they always get away with it …

So please, do not swallow the "blowback"-bait .. this "attack" happened because the "deep state" (the fascist covert network in the US and UK and NATO) wanted it to happen... (Corbyn was gaining in the polls...)

Posted by: Mutter Courage | May 26, 2017 2:45:28 PM | 100

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