April 06, 2017
Israel Just Received A HUGE Gift From Russia. What Is Its Side Of The Deal?
Russia just published a quite sensational statement on Israel and Palestine. It recognizes, as before, East-Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Palestine. But Russia now also recognizes, under certain condition, West-Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel.
This statement will make quite a wave and it has to be seen in the wider context of the war on Syria. Here is the original statement in Russian on the Foreign Ministry site and the auto-translation (excerpt):
Moscow continues to consider the formula for negotiating a two-state settlement of an optimal and friendly to us Palestinian and Israeli people, as well as to the interests of all countries in the region and the world community as a whole.
We reaffirm our commitment to the UN resolutions on the principles of settlement, including the status of East Jerusalem as the capital of the future Palestinian state. At the same time, we consider it necessary to say that in this context we regard West Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel.
Specific parameters for addressing the full range of issues of the final status of the Palestinian territories, including the Jerusalem problem, should be agreed upon in direct negotiations between the parties.
The part marked by me in bold is new. Older statements of Russia never included such a recognition. It is bound to conditions ("in this context") so there is no free lunch for the Zionists. But it is still a huge achievement for Netanyahoo.
For a wider context of the new Russian position we have to look at the conflict in Syria. There the pressure on President Trump to launch a war on Syria's government (and, make no mistake, thereby also on Hizbullah, Russia and Iran) is increasing. The probably staged chemical incident yesterday was the starting point for an intense pro-war campaign.
Yesterday the Israeli Defense Minister Lieberman accused Syria:
Lieberman told Yedioth Ahronoth that Syrian planes carried out the two chemical attacks, which were “directly ordered and planned by Syrian President Bashar Assad.” He stressed he was “100 percent certain.” The defense minister said he did not know if Russia was involved in the attack.
Russia and Syria have denied that either of them used any chemical ammunition. They say that the Syrian air force bombed an al-Qaeda ammunition depot which, unknown to them, may have included chemical weapons.
Today the Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahoo called the Russian President and part of that call was a serious rebuke from Putin:
Mr Putin and Mr Netanyahu exchanged views on the incident involving chemical weapons on April 4 in the Syrian province of Idlib. Mr Putin underscored, in particular, that it is unacceptable to make groundless accusations against any party until a thorough and objective international investigation has been conducted.
But also part of that call, though not mentioned in the official note, must have been some agreement that led to the release of the statement above by the Russian Foreign Ministry.
A deal must have been made. A give and take and the West-Jerusalem release is part of the payment or reward. It is a HUGE price to win for Israel. It is against the long held international consensus which only considers Tel Aviv to be Israel's capital. Russia's concession gives cover for President Trump to make a similar announcement without messing up U.S. relations with Arab states or anyone else.
We can only speculate on the Israeli side of the deal, but there must be something Netanyahoo committed to. Russia would not offer this new position for nothing.
The mighty Zionist lobby in the U.S. (AIPAC & Co) is pushing for an immediate war on Syria. (It did so in 2013 but Obama called the war off at that time after the British parliament and later Congress rejected it.)
Netanyahoo could let it known that he prefers no war on Syria. The Zionist lobby in the U.S. would then shut up, pressure on Trump would be much relieved, a new war on Syria could be avoided.
In 2013 Putin arranged for a deal to destroy Syria's chemical arsenal. The elimination of Syria's strategic weapons was a huge gift to Israel. It also allowed Obama to keep face and keep away from war despite all pressure.
Now Putin is making another huge offer. Will Israel take this gift? Will Netanyahoo call off its AIPAC dogs of war?
The offer is not Russia's last political resort with regard to Israel.
A million Israelis are of Russian heritage. They emigrated to Israel in the 1980s and 90s. They are mostly not really Jews but vote conservative. They also admire and cherish Putin. That is one reason why no Israeli politician, especially Netanyahoo, can afford a big political conflict with Russia.
Putin's ultimate threat to Netanyahoo is to influence the Russian voters in Israel and to make them vote against him. It is a personal nuke under Netanyahoo's seat.
But Putin does not like to issue threats. He offers and makes deals. So one wonders what the real deal behind the above acknowledgement of West-Jerusalem is. Is my speculation correct or are their better explanations?
Posted by b on April 6, 2017 at 03:13 PM | Permalink
Great article, b! However, I am sure that you meant to say "capital" and not "capitol." The capitol is where many mentally-challenged people pretend to do the business of governing.
Posted by: MikeA | Apr 6, 2017 3:23:19 PM | 1
I'm not sure this is aimed at Netanyahoo, it's far more likely to be for Trump's benefit who has wanted to allow the Israelis to move Israel's capital from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Now Putin is signalling that moving it to West Jerusalem is fine with him. Trump, if he has any sense (which he does seem to have) will jump on this and push the Israelis to move their capital to West Jerusalem. Trump thinks he's a deal maker and he is probably a fairly good ne at that, Putin really is The Deal Maker.
Posted by: Ghostship | Apr 6, 2017 3:40:44 PM | 2
I personally think there has been what amounts to a soft coup in the US. Flynn was fired because of Pence. After Tillersons sensible statement last week re: Assad in the last 1-2 days we have had an alleged chemical weapons attack in Syria (false flag blaming Assad), we've had Bannon demoted off of NSC, Nunes removes himself from his chairmanship on Russia inquiry board (after coming out strong last week in Trumps corner, around the same time Tillerson made his 'Assad can stay' statement).
Basically it seems like after getting rid of Flynn last month, they've now removed Bannon, Nunes and reversed Tillerson 189 degrees from last week.
Yesterday saw Trump meeting with Jordan followed by him pounding the war drum against Syria for the first time. There was a repeat of the UN circa 2013 with Nikki Haley channeling Samantha powers and threatening to invade without UN approval. Netanyahu then pilied on calling for war.
Today we have Tillerson saying a coalition is being assembled and anonymous officials are reporting war talk in the Whitehouse.
It's official the US is no longer a democracy.
Posted by: WG | Apr 6, 2017 3:42:47 PM | 3
Putin very silent about US threats...
Posted by: paul | Apr 6, 2017 3:53:00 PM | 4
MikeA | Apr 6, 2017 3:23:19 PM | 1
The capitol is where many mentally-challenged people pretend to do the business of governing.
That needs correcting:
The Capitol is where many mentally-challenged, lying, venal, and vicious people pretend to do the business of governing. The capitols are where many more mentally-challenged lying, venal, and vicious person pretends to do the business of governing.
That should do.
Posted by: Ghostship | Apr 6, 2017 3:57:54 PM | 5
Will Netanyahoo call off its AIPAC dogs of war?
I am not too terribly sure that Bibi has all that might and can influence various U.S. Jewish interest groups and fractions. At home he is not really strong either and I expect more opposition attacks on him in Knesset, but also from its own trenches, too.
I think you are right to say that nobody in Israel needs any war now, especially with Syria and that would be automatically starting Intifada X and provoking Hezbollah...the whole MidEast burns in a blink of an eye.
Putin's administration giving its grace to acknowledge part of a Jerusalem as a capital city is a clever move especially if designed to equalise Palestinians to the Israeli partners in talks. Both sides would gain out of it and I do not think that it will be second offer.
For the rest I think you are rather accurate, but when one doesn't even dream of what Trump will do or say in the next 24 - 48 hours.
I suggest that he might be better off to play some golf or talk China to Xi or some other thing useless...
Posted by: laserlurk | Apr 6, 2017 3:59:20 PM | 6
>>>> WG | Apr 6, 2017 3:42:47 PM | 3
with Nikki Haley channeling Samantha powers and threatening to invade without UN approval
Nah, Nikki Haley is Trump's attack dog at the UN, but she's on a far shorter lead than Powers. Lots of bark but trained not to bite. I expect a unanimous toothless UNSC resolution sometime early next week that calls on both the jihadists and the SAG to do their utmost to clarify what happened in Khan Sheikhoun earlier this week. Trump gets to claim that the UN responded to his demand and Putin protects Assad. And almost everyone goes home happy to be alive.
Trump likes to see results rather than the point scoring that Obama seemed to prefer.
Posted by: Ghostship | Apr 6, 2017 4:09:56 PM | 7
I'm not sure I would read this as a concession to Netanyahu.
The Arab Summit just concluded and stuck with the demand of a Palestinian State with East Jerusalem at it's capital. As reported by al Monitor:
Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad, Fatah's spokesman for international affairs, told Al-Monitor that the results of the summit were comforting for Palestinians. "In the final communique, Arab leaders reiterated total support for an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital, opposed settlements and Israel's attempts to Judaize Jerusalem, and called on the world community not to think of moving their embassies to Jerusalem, while also repeating their support for the 2002 Beirut summit Arab Peace Initiative."
Hroub [a political science professor at Northeastern University in Qatar] pointed to the storm that erupted March 17 following the issuance of a United Nations report accusing Israel of apartheid, a war crime, saying that it contributed to the Arab resolve. "When Rima Khalaf, the secretary-general of the UN Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia, resigned rather than succumb to pressures from the UN secretary-general to withdraw her report, she became a folk hero in the Arab world and made it difficult for any Arab leader to show signs of weakness."
AFAICT, Netanyahu & Israeli hardliners want neither a two-state solution or a one-state solution that allows for a right-of-return. So Putin's support for the Arab Summit's stiffing spine would likely would irk Netanyahu.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Apr 6, 2017 4:10:04 PM | 8
who is Kareem Shaheen?
A little bit OT but the Guardian has just sent in one of their reporters to cover the latest sarin attack in Syria.
This seems to me a major escalation in the western attack against Assad and the SAA and their Russian and Iranian supporters. If this Guardian story is right (or even if it not right, but is accepted by the West) then it would put tremendous pressure on Trump to actively intervene in the fighting around Idlib province in support of the Jihadist rebels.
Posted by: ToivoS | Apr 6, 2017 4:14:53 PM | 9
Obviously Russia is signaling to Israelis (and Americans) that although it and Iran are increasingly aligned on many issues, there is considerable daylight between them with regard to the security of Israel. Israelis are becoming more and more concerned about Iran becoming embedded in Syria for an eternity, and Moscow is simply making an effort to calm them down.
Posted by: telescope | Apr 6, 2017 4:23:32 PM | 10
Trump doesn't seem the type to immediately fall for a false flag like this, though recent events show him more playing along to get along. It's troubling that he may just shrug off responsibility and hand it to his generals. It must be very clear that that is a declaration of war rather than the proxy war being fought currently.
Posted by: Gravatomic | Apr 6, 2017 4:31:33 PM | 11
Russia has already shown it has no moral high ground and only seeks to sit at the table with America. It has fought a half hearted war in Syria allowing Turkey to occupy parts of Northen Syria. It allows Israeli jets to attack Syrian army and Hezbollah despite the magic S300 which may as well be made from paper as if never works. It Russia recognises illegal coup regimes in Ukraine, Libya and Egypt all in the name of securing oil and gas pipelines. Just last month they were in love with Trump as he threatened their ally Iran and sent more ordnance and troops to Ukraine and the Baltics. They saved Erdogan and he probably had their ambassador killed , still arms the terrorist in Syria and Iraq. Please stop the talk of Putin being a chess grand master and a genius level strategist. He is out of his depth in my opinion along with Lavrov.
Posted by: Quds | Apr 6, 2017 4:37:42 PM | 12
I think it is Russian humour, they know Israel wants one state plus the Golan.
There is this here now
Avi Mayer @AviMayer
Israel's Channel 10 reports that the Israeli cabinet will convene on Sunday to discuss possible humanitarian intervention in Syria.
Looks like Russia can test their air defenses soon.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 6, 2017 4:39:16 PM | 13
There is also this now
Hans de Vreij @hdevreij
CNN reported just now that according to an expert they consulted the agent used in Tuesday's event in Idlib is probably a pesticide
Hans de Vreij @hdevreij
That report was from Ben Wedeman (@bencnn)
Posted by: somebody | Apr 6, 2017 4:42:31 PM | 14
Israel is of no strategic value to Russia or even the United States other than 700'000 can vote in Russian elections and they supply high level American secrets to Russia. Russia wants in on the Leviathan gas field and is doing all it can to appease this illegal state , to the point where they allow Syrian Army and allies to be attacked despite S300 supposedly being the mother of all air defence systems. Russian ambasssdor to Israel even demanded Hezbollah and Iran leave after Syrian war. If Russia had not cowardly waited 4 years to get involved militarily then maybe they would not have had to enter in the first place. Putin fanboys need to get a grip, he is under the thumb of useless oligarchs like Abramovich and Deripaska who have Israeli passports.
Posted by: Quds | Apr 6, 2017 4:43:16 PM | 15
Israel wants a larger war in Syria because Hassan Nasrallah has declared it a fight to the death. The Saudis want a larger war in Syria to cripple Iran. The Turks want a larger war in Syria to wipe out Rojava. The U.S. deep state wants a larger war in Syria to reestablish its hegemony in the region and deal Russia a defeat.
Trump is not a sophisticated guy. Look how he was rolled by the Congressional Tea Party on the repeal of Obamacare. There is about to be a larger war in Syria.
Posted by: Mike Maloney | Apr 6, 2017 4:46:00 PM | 16
Putin is likely to fold like a cheap suit. The ziocons have now completely taken firm control of the Trump administration. All this talk of Putin, the Russian military might, S400s air defense is shown to be what it is. When push came to shove they couldn't withstand the US military threat. The message is clear no one has the ability to directly confront US hegemony.
Posted by: ab initio | Apr 6, 2017 4:53:41 PM | 17
Looking at the couple of on scene video's of the bombing, this Ghassan Aboud seems to fit into the picture somewhere.
Orient news who where quickly on the seen.
Re exports new toyota's mainly from UAE - to where?
Sets up hospitals - or hospital stage sets for AQ
In Syria, he only operates in AQ control Idlib area. The first scene of the snuff movie kicked off in an underground hospital stage set full of white helmets plus a headchopper reporter located in an unused quarry that gets bombed. No indication of what news service the on location reporter actually worked for, but he wore the same gear as orient news reporters. A known Orient news reporter was quickly on the scene.
Scene two takes place in a different part of the quarry where the unlucky actors that drew the short straws get gassed.
As somebody I think commented here, there does not seem to be a quarry in Khan Sheykhun.
Posted by: Peter AU | Apr 6, 2017 5:20:02 PM | 18
@MikeA thanks, corrected
@WG "I personally think there has been what amounts to a soft coup in the US."
It is a hostage situation. The "russia spies" anti-Trump campaign is trying to hold Trump's presidency as hostage. War on Syria would pay the ransom.
@all - note that the media are widely away from reality in their current massive war speculations. When one actually reads the statements by Trump and Tillerson the picture is very different. Both UK and France have practically rejected any jump towards war.
Posted by: b | Apr 6, 2017 5:28:29 PM | 19
@16 and @17.. sad but true. neoliberal putin might be faced with WW3 or taking a massive loss
Posted by: aaaa | Apr 6, 2017 5:31:40 PM | 20
Everyone knows this is a false flag. Including Trump, McCain, the Democrats, the Republicans, the media, and all the Europeans, as well as the Russians and Iranians and the Israelis. They all know who the White Helmets and SOHR are. There's no mystery.
Trump saying he's going to take out Assad is once again an unilateral projection of power. He's daring Putin to stop him from exercising military power. What's Putin going to do? Risk Russian lives and property for Assad? Ain't gonna happen.
Posted by: ab initio | Apr 6, 2017 5:33:40 PM | 21
@19 Let's not forget it was the UK (or UK public) who 'chickened out' last time. It may give Trump the excuse not to go in guns blazing.
Posted by: dh | Apr 6, 2017 5:43:45 PM | 22
@21 and Russia's credibility gets totally shot
Posted by: aaaa | Apr 6, 2017 5:44:21 PM | 23
ab initio @21--
"What's Putin going to do? Risk Russian lives and property for Assad? Ain't gonna happen."
That's a very foolish bit of writing. Putin has already risked Russian lives and property for Assad and the Syrian nation; or have you been asleep for the last 18 months.
Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 6, 2017 6:00:54 PM | 24
Not so fast!
While the new statement makes it clear that Russia is either making a proposal or has already concluded some kind of a deal with IsraHell, the text formulation per se implies certain conditions for recognising W. Jerusalem as the capitol of the Zio-state.
In their previous paragraph, as well as the opening sentence of the 2nd (updated) paragraph, the Russians describe the internationally accepted two-state solution where E. Jerusalem is Palestine's capitol. Only in this context shall W.J be recognised as IsraHell's legitimate capitol.
Having on mind Trump's & Bibi's recent remarks regarding the two-state solution, this might well turn out to be much ado for nothing...
Posted by: LXV | Apr 6, 2017 6:04:31 PM | 25
Got this from CTH - "Speaking to reporters aboard Air Force One, Trump said Thursday that what happened in Syria is “a disgrace to humanity.” Asked if Assad should go, Trump said, “He’s there, and I guess he’s running things so something should happen.”
Audio stinks - recorded on plane - question on Syria and his answer comes at the end of the vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po9jBRqPjmg
Here's Tillerson giving his remarks on China and Syria - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=1Z4VAv5-uG0
Posted by: h | Apr 6, 2017 6:07:06 PM | 26
I am no longer convinced that there is any sort of rational process going on at the White House, let's hope that at least someone at the Pentagon is thinking about what Russia might choose to do if the US starts some major operation in Syria.
Posted by: Perimetr | Apr 6, 2017 6:08:21 PM | 27
Posted by: b | Apr 6, 2017 5:28:29 PM | 19
Yep. Looks like Assad has made it.
President Assad: Federalism is a national issue; and whether it should or should not happen depends on the constitution. And the constitution needs a popular vote. That’s why we cannot, as a government, say that we accept or not accept federalism. The government and the executive authority express the will of the people. However, I can give you the general view in Syria. The majority of Syrians do not accept federalism because it is an introduction to partition. There is no justification for federalism, for the Syrians have been living together, in the same structure, without any problems for decades and centuries, even before the existence of the Syrian state, even during and before the Ottoman state. There are no historical wars between the components of the Syrian people to justify the assertion that these sects or religions or ethnicities cannot live with each other. So, the issue of federalism is made-up with the objective of reaching a situation similar to that of Iraq. In that case they use this or that part of the state, which is supposed to be a strong state, in order to produce a weak state, a weak government, a weak people, and a weak homeland.
He seems to have come out of this with being neither a Russian nor an Iranian puppet.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 6, 2017 6:26:36 PM | 28
WG@3 "Today we have Tillerson saying a coalition is being assembled and anonymous officials are reporting war talk in the Whitehouse".
Sounds serious, but can he get a coalition together? And to do what? In 2013 Obama wanted to act on his red line, but then let Congress decide, Congressional members were inundated with letters from angry electors on the order of 10/1 against action, and so decided against it. Now unlike in 2013, Russian forces are in Syria, so American action could have very serious consequences, like starting WW3.
Posted by: harrylaw | Apr 6, 2017 6:28:52 PM | 29
Let's hope you're right B. And that Netanyahoo honors the deal. Right now the howling coming from Washington, the other western capitals, from Politicians and quality media alike is unbearable. They all take the danger of an atomic WWIII very very lightly. I'm out of area but my parents and my son are not. I'm scared.
Posted by: Pnyx | Apr 6, 2017 6:34:12 PM | 30
‘[..] “At the same time, we consider it necessary to say that in this context we regard West Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel.”[..]
b, I am on the floor lmao. Mr. Putin made an offer he knows is not acceptable. Does this have the blessings of President Kushner?
I can say with great certainty this offer is just not good enough. The warmongering Ashkenazi ”Khazars” within the Tribes (how apt) want it all -.meaning as in ALL of Jerusalem, not just West Jerusalem. The Temple Mount.
East Jerusalem was annexed to West Jerusalem and I do recall statements loud and clear: “Jerusalem will not be surrendered; not ever in a thousand years."
It is the long established plan for Greater Israel. 'Shana Tova.,… See you next year in Jerusalem.'
Posted by: likklemore | Apr 6, 2017 6:34:29 PM | 31
Re: harrylaw 29
Here's the coalition: US, UK, France, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Israel, various and sundry NATO members
Posted by: Perimetr | Apr 6, 2017 6:39:52 PM | 32
If he did do it for that reason to call off the Zionist war dogs, then he did it for nothing! He agrees to sell off a Palestinian right and will get squat in return. Don't you know Zionists by now? First, they can't be trusted as far as you can spit! Second, you give them an inch and then they'll take an acre and another and all they can get. They're not going to accept any conditions.
Already Tillerson is calling for Assad to be removed and the drumbeat to destroy the Syrian air force is getting louder. This is a pre-curser to establishing no-fly in Syria without a U.N. Resolution.
This Putin offer is all moot, for nothing and means nothing to Zionists who are after everything. Putin is getting played again, like he got played with Iraq and Libya.
Now I know he's trying to throw biscuits and treats at those Rottweilers, (apologies to Rottweilers for the comparison) but it's not going to work, it ain't workin' and they're gnashing their fangs and chomping on the bit to pounce on Syria. Zionists are convinced they're going to get everything they want anyway. So why should they hold back on their plan for Syria because Putin recognizes West Jerusalem as Zionist property?
Putin will give away a Palestinian right and risk the trust of his alliance in Syria and Zionists will betray him every chance they get in return because putting a crack a dent in that alliance is their primary goal.
Lemme give you a headline: THERE WILL NEVER BE PEACE IN THAT REGION AS LONG AS THERE IS ZIONISM.
Once Zionist Neocons are through with Assad; they'll be gunning for Iran and Putin. No doubt they're already working on regime change for Russia. You think the Zio American Empire is going to sit back and let Putin get re-elected? No doubt they've got something planned for Putin. Putin can threaten Netanyahu's leadership all he wants, or gift W. Jerusalem, but at the end of the day, Zionists will neutralize whatever threat gets in their way of their plan for the region. For now, Netanyahu is the settlers' defender until Israel goes even more radical. He represents Zionist expansionism; he is the individual who mandated Clean Break upon which PNAC was founded. Those Russian Jews immigrated to Israel for a reason; and Jews are very tribal. Israel will always come first for them, therefore they will always side with Israel's interests and the Zionist plan for Syria despite Putin's efforts to dissuade them.
Posted by: Circe | Apr 6, 2017 6:39:56 PM | 33
so when it comes to narratives... the first of the events is being played out and given the choice to stand by a new narrative or buy into the traditional one, it seems that trump has chosen to sing the song of the old system despite being given an easy out by Putin...
dangerous times ahead
Posted by: les7 | Apr 6, 2017 6:44:34 PM | 34
Well, lets see which and whose redline will be crossed (or not)..
Posted by: Lozion | Apr 6, 2017 6:46:53 PM | 35
Trumps meeting with Xi Jinping must touch on US action regarding Syria. It is to be hoped Xi cautions Trump on any precipient action.
Posted by: harrylaw | Apr 6, 2017 6:52:08 PM | 36
"humanitarian intervention" should be a new oxymoron to add to the list like "congressional ethics" and "military intelligence."
Posted by: Curtis | Apr 6, 2017 6:52:29 PM | 37
abc news tonight was discussing targets for the US military.
Posted by: Curtis | Apr 6, 2017 6:55:11 PM | 38
Curiouser and curiouser.
When did Israel become a "State". ??????
Posted by: Jack | Apr 6, 2017 6:56:52 PM | 39
ab initio: Putin is likely to fold like a cheap suit. The ziocons have now completely taken firm control of the Trump administration.
non sequitur and a dubious premise
About "folding", abandoning allies is done in dire circumstances, and there is nothing of that sort in sight. "Ziocons Washington"? Anything novel about that?
That said, I am not sure what "ziocon" means. A neo-con who happens to be a zionist? That would basically mean a "profound sentiment for Israel as personified by the current government" plus "wide access to Gulfie money". Without the "plus" we get "war forever", and with Gulfie money, full speed ahead toward jihadi victory. Washington is in hands of "war forever" since early Obama years.
"Everyone knows this is a false flag." Sadly, most people in USA and perhaps in Europe do not.
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Apr 6, 2017 6:59:03 PM | 40
If the Kremlin website has a statement (of intent) in Russian but not in English, then one could conclude that it's not of huge importance. I'll assume it's Russian humour or an ambush until it becomes important enough for the details to be widely and jointly reported by Russia and Israel in English. And I'm not holding my breath. Israel would have to define and declare the precise location of its borders with Palestine before anyone bothered taking a promise to take the change, from Piece Process to Peace Process, seriously.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 6, 2017 7:04:21 PM | 42
One could also interpret this as Russia saying to Israel "Look, you say your capital is Jerusalem and that's where you put all your governing stuff. Well, then beware, because if someone hits you, it might as well hit Jerusalem". Some veiled threat, not nessarily of Russian reprisals, but at least of Hezbullah targetting Jerusalem itself if things go down in Syria.
Besides, for the first time, it's Boris Johnson who's the voice of reason, after having said Assad must go for the last 6 months. Europe is definitely not going to bomb Assad over that. We'll see soon enough if a repeat of 2013 is possible,
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Apr 6, 2017 7:19:18 PM | 43
how can a little weak russian flip flopper putnick gift what has been israels for thousands of years.
putnick has given too little too lateski.
navalny time is tick tocking putnick is not a match for king bibi he has all the cards.
has the epstein island of trump having his trumpet blown by a teeny bopper.
rexy tillerson videos with cubs and many scouts rexy loves the gaydars so much he let them into the scout movement.
these folks in syria have too move to london and denver scotland and wales norway and sweden are friend barbera lerner spector will look after them.
in the future we will get simon scharma at the bbc to make a book and tv programmed history of greater israel showing that syriana was always israel.
Posted by: menechem golani | Apr 6, 2017 7:44:38 PM | 46
reading the other comments ... especially b @19 ... all this could go the other way: set up by the neocons, but then finding himself all alone, tee-rump backs down ... the russians have proven themselves quite capable of pulling a face-saver from nowhere and may well do so again ... tee-rump notices the impotence of neocons, notices who's saved his appearance - the only thing that counts to him - and returns to his 'gut' feeling that it makes no sense to war with russia. till the next time he's played like a piano by the 'pros'.
so we'll see what happens. tee-rex has made some statements he will have trouble backing down from. nikki haley will be completely damaged goods. "you're fired." i guess. mike flynn redux. and the sideshow continues.
Posted by: jfl | Apr 6, 2017 7:52:02 PM | 47
If Putin capitulates on Syria, Russian hard liners may oust him.
IF Syria falls, terrorism in Russia can be expected to rise sharply
One deterrent to war is the Iraq shia militias. WIll they stand idly by when US is bombing their allies in Syria?
Or will they start killing US troops.
Too, a Russian attack on Ukraine may be on the table if US neo cons get too giddy.
Posted by: Vollin | Apr 6, 2017 7:53:51 PM | 48
thanks. all very good points.
Posted by: jfl | Apr 6, 2017 7:59:14 PM | 49
Russia doesn't want China on Syria.
It complicates things.
Putin put Russian lives in harm's way in Syria for Russian interests which is to delay or stop both the Qatari and Iranian pipelines.
If the Iranians played ball, then it wild be safe for Russia to win the war in Syria.
But the Iranians think otherwise not knowing their place.
As for Israel, you want them around so that you got options to deal with Islam in the middle east. Not sure why some here think Islam, Sunni or Shiite is benign. Keep your options for using Israel against Islam whether they like it or not.
Posted by: ThatDamnGood | Apr 6, 2017 8:13:33 PM | 50
Other options are on the table, too.
Giving Houthis more powerful SAMs and ASMs is one. No one sympathises with the Saudis. Not even the paleo-Ziocuck outfits of the Guardian, CNN and Haaretz.
Giving Iran best available means to shut down all Gulf Oil transit is yet another.
If the Neo-Hitlarite Trump escalates in Syria, Putin can still respond assymetrically yet very intrusively.
Finally, why not bring more modern SAMs to the Damascus area and start taking out the Zio buzzboys more effectively?
Posted by: Quadriad | Apr 6, 2017 8:18:35 PM | 51
The U.S. will probably use tomahawk missiles to knock out Syria's air force bases. Does Russia still have the S-400 in Syria?
Posted by: Circe | Apr 6, 2017 8:20:54 PM | 52
I would be very wary of auto-translated text, and in particular with regard to its use of past, present and future tense.
I think it is far more likely that the statement is addressing the "internationally recognized solution", in which case the Russian statement is a simple recitation of the obvious i.e. Russia is stressing that any solution that sees a state of Palestine with its capital in East Jerusalem must necessarily also mean a state of Israel with its capital in West Jerusalem.
Not much joy in that for the Izzies.
b: "It recognizes, as before, East-Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Palestine."
I do not believe that statement to be correct.
The Russians are scrupulous in sticking to the letter of International Law, even if they don't necessarily act in the spirit of the law.
And the status of Jerusalem under International Law is that it is still a "corpus separatum" i.e. an international city that belongs to neither the "Jewish state" nor the "Arab state" until such time as the UN decides otherwise.
So I have no trouble believing that Russia recognizes Palestine. International law allows that.
I also have no trouble believing that Russia accepts that Palestine has a *claim* to East Jerusalem. Again, not a problem for Int'l law.
But I don't believe that Russia has recognized the Palestinian claim to any part of Jerusalem, any more than it recognizes the Israeli claim to any/all of Jerusalem.
To do so would be to defy the *letter* of International Law, and the Russians appear not to ever want to go there.
I believe that Russia's official stance is close to the official US stance i.e. unless/until the two sides come to an agreement then Jerusalem belongs to neither of them but, hey, everyone knows what that agreement has to be.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Apr 6, 2017 8:22:38 PM | 53
@48 "Too, a Russian attack on Ukraine may be on the table if US neo cons get too giddy."
It might be too much to expect the Americans to see beyond their tunnel-vision.
Attacks are what the USA does to other people, it may be beyond their comprehension to think that other players get to roll the dice too.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Apr 6, 2017 8:27:19 PM | 54
Bullshit. Israel is good for nothing except accelerating WWIII!
Posted by: Circe | Apr 6, 2017 8:28:41 PM | 55
It is foolish to attribute any motive to any of the lying shitbags who head up the states & agencies involved in Syria other than mendacious self-interest.
Just because fukus has no intention of copping the inevitable flack that would arise from actually putting regular military 'boots on the ground' in Syria it is naive to imagine that this conflict will not escalate y-ugely over the coming summer.
As many others have pointed out, the beat up over 'chemical' weapons has completely undermined any attempt at negotiation so now everybody gets to coin it churning out munitions to use in Syria this year. fukus will likely escalate their use of special forces and 'instructors' while they persuade the gulf states to pay for the weapons they are handing out to mercenaries, jihadists and deluded fools. Russia won't be committing any troops but my best guess is that the despicable optic of Putin israeli ass-kissing plus relatively restrained russian UNSC response has been all about ensuring russia maintains a domination of the airspace over Syria. No one is gonna be handing the jihadists manpads & amerika won't be enlarging it's air support beyond the limited attack squadrons which they claim are being used to fight isis - until the next time the 'allies accidentally screw up' and blow the bejesus outta Syrian army positions.
I dount there has been anything remotely resembling a soft coup in Washington it is just trump being a typical politician saying one thing and doing another, after all jared kushner has been around since the get go too. Ascribing typical amerikan fork-tongued bullshit to anything other than what it is by giving trump a pass because he is 'being blackmailed' is just plain naive.
A lot of people got sucked in by a guy saying what they wanted to hear - so what - isn't that just politics as normal - get over it recognise trump is just another selfish lying prick in a long line of selfish lying pricks and concentrate it what must be done instead of wasting time looking in the rearview mirror worrying about what was said way back when on the day before yesterday.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Apr 6, 2017 9:02:00 PM | 56
Chatter Of Imminent Syrian Airstrikes "Within The Next Several Hours"
Tyler Durden's picture
by Tyler Durden
Apr 6, 2017 8:20 PM
Credible sources are reporting that Trump's airstrikes against Syria, which risk provoking a major military conflict involving not only Russia but also China, could begin imminently, "even within the next several hours."
First, the Spectator tweeted moments ago that there are "reports that journalists are being told to remain at Pentagon and 'chatter' of military strike on Syria as soon as tonight"
Second, NBC's Richard Engel, who reports that "I've been talking to senior US military officials and they say that something is seriously under consideration, that it could happen imminently, that a wide range of options are being presented to the president. This could develop very quickly, even within the next couple, the next several hours." According to Engel's sources, Trump is leaning toward a "limited" response, targeting Assad's chemical weapons capabilities.
Third, according to BBC's North American reporter, Jon Sopel, US military action against Assad could be "imminent"
"Given everything that’s been said in the last 24 hours, I think that military action is a betting certainty and could be imminent and we could wake up tomorrow morning and find out that the Americans have taken action," Sopel said adding that the Trump administration’s shift on the issue has been “pretty dramatic” in light of Rex Tillerson statement just one week ago that Assad was part of Syria’ s future and "the longer term status of President Assad will be decided by the Syrian people."
Sopel adds that having “heaped derision” on Barack Obama for allowing Assad to cross his red line, “for Donald Trump not to act now he would look weak, and he wouldn’t want that.”
Per pool reports, the White House is mum about potential action tonight.
As reported earlier, the Pentagon is set to brief Trump on his military options in Syria, which include a potential "saturation strike" which could result in numerous Russian military casualties, and resulting in an imminent confrontation between Washington and Moscow. The NYT adds that negotiations are taking place right now between Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Meanwhile, as Paul Joseph Watson reports, a groundswell of opposition to what Trump supporters see as a "disastrous move" is building, with many amazed that Trump is considering following the same catastrophic policy that Hillary Clinton pursued in aiding jihadist rebels in Libya and Syria by destabilizing Assad’s secular government.
Posted by: Perimetr | Apr 6, 2017 9:05:37 PM | 57
You see Circe, you seem like Iranians a lot but as the Israelis dun like them and will also in the future piss off a lot of Sunnis make them especially useful.
Posted by: ThatDamnGood | Apr 6, 2017 9:24:31 PM | 59
Feel the Trump people.
Posted by: ThatDamnGood | Apr 6, 2017 9:29:12 PM | 61
H Clinton, L Grayham and J McCain all call for Trump to destroy the Syrian airforce. If the Russians allow this to happen then Syria would be lost, followed by Hezbollah then Iran would be in the crosshairs. Russia must realize they are not dealing with choirboys, John McCain has said in the past that if the US did use aggression in Syria, Russia would do nothing. We now come to the moment of truth.
Posted by: harrylaw | Apr 6, 2017 9:29:38 PM | 62
The US could blow up another aspirin factory and declare victory?
Posted by: Perimetr | Apr 6, 2017 9:31:40 PM | 63
What you son-of-a-bitches feared in Hillary you're getting in Trump. It is by your hands that the world will be turned to ashes. You beckoned it. You cheered him on. You heralded him and now you, and all of us, will burn.
Posted by: The Stephen Miller Band | Apr 6, 2017 9:40:30 PM | 64
50 Cruise Missiles - Attack on Syria. Now what?
Posted by: Pnyx | Apr 6, 2017 9:41:24 PM | 65
Trump hope died April 6, 2017.
Posted by: Julian | Apr 6, 2017 9:46:13 PM | 66
Re: The Stephen Miller Band | Apr 6, 2017 9:40:30 PM | 64
I'd say you're the SOB on the blog at present.
Posted by: Perimetr | Apr 6, 2017 9:47:18 PM | 67
this is about the babies and the innocent children.
it has nothing too do with genie energy futures
or trump deal buying swiss re london building with 70% discount.
tillerson with cub scouts getting cosy
trump on giligan epsteins mossad tropical island.
this is not about oded yinon greater israel or leviathan oil gasses,ratlines for drugs,the sex slave trade and live organ harvesting.
nor talmud ritual.
this is about the rule of law and the common purpose that has made london,washington and tel aviv the bastion of decent human behavior for a 100 years of balfour.
50 penetrated depleted uranium missilles of zion truth made it past putnicks rusted s400 and 500.
not a good advert for russian sales.
syrian children,men and woman must die so the syrian babies can live and be kinder transported to turkey and israel
Posted by: menechem golani | Apr 6, 2017 9:47:35 PM | 68
If Putin doesn't sink these destroyers committing blatant acts of aggression and war, hope in Putin will also die.
The two are inextricably linked.
Posted by: Julian | Apr 6, 2017 9:47:58 PM | 69
Trump just bombed the Syrian Airbase in HOMS . ISIS will love him from now on since SyAF bombs them from that airbase
Posted by: Yul | Apr 6, 2017 9:51:00 PM | 70
menechem golani knows all about killing innocents since the Zionist Entity's been doing so since they began arriving in the Levant.
Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 6, 2017 9:56:49 PM | 71
What makes you think Hillary would be any different?
Posted by: ThatDamnGood | Apr 6, 2017 9:57:22 PM | 72
Trump just fellated the Zionist donkey and is Israel's bitch as I predicted!
Posted by: Circe | Apr 6, 2017 9:59:33 PM | 73
Posted by: Lozion | Apr 6, 2017 10:01:11 PM | 74
Trump blows up "empty" airfield.
Now he will tell Xi, I will do the same for North Korea too.
I suspect he is going to be disappointed nonetheless.
This is going to be viewed as a sign of weakness. From the Russian perspective, if you pull the gun out of the holster and didn't shoot to kill, that's weak.
Putin doesn't blink when push comes to shove, see Crimea.
Posted by: ThatDamnGood | Apr 6, 2017 10:04:29 PM | 75
Well "amerika won't be enlarging it's air support beyond the limited attack squadrons which they claim are being used to fight isis - until the next time the 'allies accidentally screw up' and blow the bejesus outta Syrian army positions." prediction went to shit in record time though I do stand by the rest of it.
trump is just another apologist for amerikan imperial crimes and always has been.
Putin is no better his primary motivation has always been to go with what is best for Putin. I shouldn't have to state such obvious realities except too many fools in the world still look around for some saviour to do the heavy lifting for them instead of recognising that it is the same as it ever was, the only way to make the situation better for all the humans on this planet is if all the humans stick together and fuck all the self appointed supercilious lying 'leaders' and do it for themselves.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Apr 6, 2017 10:04:43 PM | 76
Many predicted the same Circe. The problem was that American were given only the choice of which evil one would lead them :(
Posted by: alkomv | Apr 6, 2017 10:08:38 PM | 77
The 50 Cruise Missile Attack on Syria....
Gulf of Tonkin Redux??
Or Libya R2P repeated??
In any event, Trump mousetrapped
Posted by: DavidKNZ | Apr 6, 2017 10:18:57 PM | 78
Putin is now forced to 'allow' this and tacitly agree to Trump's terms. Syria as you know it is fucking toast, but I said the same thing months ago because it was quite obvious.
Putin might be toast as well - he got totally caught off-guard bitchslapped, and will fall short with regards to a response to this dramatic act of aggression. His opponents will sense blood in the water and might go at him in a concerted, USA-sponsored attack.
Putin should've known better
Posted by: aaaa | Apr 6, 2017 10:20:46 PM | 79
Anyone else feel sick right now?
Caligula for president in 2020, I mean why not, what difference would it make...
Posted by: WG | Apr 6, 2017 10:21:40 PM | 81
sorry for the language - very mad at developments as you can imagine
Posted by: aaaa | Apr 6, 2017 10:21:56 PM | 82
Putin is a statesman. He knows Syria is an invention of French and British mapmakers. It can't be held together no matter how hard one tries. It's the same with Iraq, and almost any other country in the Middle East. Even Turkey. All will be carved and rearranged into more organic and compatible entities. Russia is there to secure its interests, not to get into all-out nuclear exchange.
Posted by: telescope | Apr 6, 2017 10:24:41 PM | 83
Right on schedule.
Didn't matter if Trumpino or Pantsuit Mob got elected, in fact I wonder if Trump actually jumped the gun a bit. No matter. The PTB have in in their mind that Assad will be found dirty an scared in a hole in the ground and cause of death will be painful and public, just like Sadam and Moammar.
Trumpino just put himself in for major war criminal of the 21st Century.
Yo, China, we be the tuff muthas in the 'hood. Try the lobster.
Posted by: stumpy | Apr 6, 2017 10:29:19 PM | 85
Peter AU @18
Got curious on your wikipedia link - He has also spoken in an annual conference held in Paris for a major Iranian opposition group - guess who the unnamed Iranian opposition group is... Indeed birds of a feather...
Posted by: estouxim | Apr 6, 2017 10:31:00 PM | 86
The mainstream media is all giddy & agog over this. For them, Trump may be alright afterall. Jim Himes just said about the airfield strike, "hey, if it saves 50 lives, that's a good thing, right?" Hey Jim, 50 lives for 7 billion isn't a good thing, you moron.
Posted by: The Stephen Miller Band | Apr 6, 2017 10:40:05 PM | 87
Well sometimes I felt like the lone voice around here taking all kinds of abuse. If this evil, corrupt system endures it's because most Americans are freakin' dense. Bush got TWO TERMS!
Tillerson called Russia complicit and incompetent.
By the way, Kushner is shaking things up again, in the wrong direction; again.
Trump decried attack against beautiful Syrian babies, but he doesn't mind arming the Saudis to kill starving babies in Yemen by proxy or sending black ops in to slaughter women and children and then trying to conceal the casualties. In Mosul recently, U.S. forces slaughtered close to 200 civilians.
Syrian babies are now on par with Israeli babies.
Posted by: Circe | Apr 6, 2017 10:40:56 PM | 88
Z.Hedge tweets that Trump admin gave Russians advance notice....
Seems that the AA systems didn't intercept the Tomahawks either
This might not go over well for Trump, so expect a lot more dramatic, deadly deflectionary acts soon, while the Anglo-Zio militarists can get as much mayhem out of him as they can before his possible impeachment
Posted by: aaaa | Apr 6, 2017 10:44:19 PM | 89
Cruise missiles let in by the Russians = no real harm done. Well played. Any duds for study?
Posted by: ProPeace | Apr 6, 2017 10:46:25 PM | 90
Sure cleared the news cycle, huh?
So, let's say the flames are sufficiently fanned. All goes to shit in Syria, Hezbollah says, f it, it's all toast, FPF on Israel. Even if everything from Judea eastwards is glassed, when you got nothing to lose, might as well get the last word.
Then again, it could all sputter out just like El Dorado Canyon.
Posted by: stumpy | Apr 6, 2017 10:47:11 PM | 91
How was a fucking compromised Jeffrey Epstein Lolita Island visiting pussy grabbin' tool like tRump supposed to ever be a Maverick and go up against the very establishment powers that has his fat ass compromised? It was never going to happen.
Posted by: Dick | Apr 6, 2017 10:47:37 PM | 92
Did they mention in giving advance notice to Russia that Tillerson would be calling them complicit and incompetent in pot to the kettle fashion? Or was Tillerson's statement just some improvisational icing on the advance notice cake?
Posted by: The Stephen Miller Band | Apr 6, 2017 10:47:50 PM | 93
Yep. I did not put in all the links on him that I looked up but he seems to be a major player in Idlib. Most likely a front man for CIA/MI6.
Mainly supplying vehicles to the headchoppers, plus propaganda in and propaganda out.
Seems to run the TV and radio stations in AQ territory, and from his media site would seem to have a lot to do with AQ/White Helmet propaganda that is sent out. Being such a good philanthropist also supplies hospitals to AQ which is where many of the propaganda white helmet videos take place.
Posted by: Peter AU | Apr 6, 2017 10:50:26 PM | 94
No immediate information on possible casualties was available. The strikes targeted aircraft and infrastructure, including the runway, but not people, US officials told NBC.
How many casualties???
This is quite important, because if there were no casualties it definitely raises the prospect of collusion between Trump & Putin on this one - as unlikely as it may seem.
This act certainly destroys any Trump in bed with Russia narrative doesn't it?!?!?
How many casualties?
Posted by: Julian | Apr 6, 2017 10:52:35 PM | 95
Looks like US will have to get their body bag factories working overtime. With US cruise missile strikes on the strength of AQ snuff movies, the shit may be about to hit the fan.
Posted by: Peter AU | Apr 6, 2017 10:53:39 PM | 96
comment on Trumps stupid and dangerous missile strike on Shayrat airbase near HOMS (which has made alqaeda very happy: they now have anavy as well as airforce)
Robert K Tan : 'The missile attack on Syrian airbase, shocking as it was, was likely geopolitical theatre to vent Washington's frustration at its UNSC resolution blocked and a face saving stunt. Note Russia was reportedly given warning before the strike, and Syrian army was likely to have moved people and equipment out of harm's way in good time. Hence no report of casualties.
I doubt there would be more attacks by the US after this. Russia would refrain from retaliating, and it would restrain Assad from hitting back.'
Posted by: brian | Apr 6, 2017 10:58:09 PM | 97
As for me, while I have dropped occasional silverware, I have yet to wipe out a country's whole air force whilst dining with the president of China.
Posted by: daniel | Apr 6, 2017 10:58:23 PM | 98
Still too soon to see this event in its entirety. From what I can gather, Russia was notified ahead of the strike. No word available yet on casualties - this seems the linchpin to me. If no casualties, then just a tantrum that blew up infrastructure. The damage matters, in order to appraise the seriousness of this tantrum.
As for the US, Trump can be gamed, and his information is shaky, this seems clear. But he can be gamed the other way also, this is important to recognize. Many of his former supporters are sounding out loud about, "wtf with the war thing - not what you campaigned on." Rand Paul seems the largest figure currently in public.
It's usually wrong to think of any human as being fixed in any position, or to disregard the influence of events and other players on their thinking. I think this is hugely the case with Trump - he says he's proud of his flexibility and his ability to change his mind. I look at him as a relatively face-value kind of person, and quite powerful. If that pendulum swings back the other way a few days from now, I wouldn't want to be in in his sights. But I think there must be fallout from this within the administration.
On the basis of how Trump woke up to fake news and so many other memes, it seems likely that he must wake up to how he's been played with this false flag. If he doesn't then he's not the person his base of 1 in 4 persons elected. Nobody voted for Trump in order to have business as usual. We appear to be watching the domestic US narrative as it strives to keep an entire web of lies intact. I'm finding it hard to believe that Trump will side for very long with that web of lies - it's opposed him at every turn and still does.
But we shall see. Despite my handle, I will not grieve until we know about casualties. If there are none (relatively and geo-politically speaking, I'm afraid), then it's basically an internal US matter, more death-throe puffery of the hegemon, with lessons to be fought and taught at the UN, and long knives of blame and retribution yet to play out in Washington.
Posted by: Grieved | Apr 6, 2017 11:07:18 PM | 99
Aparently, some holes in the tarmac at what cost? What was that 1,5 million a piece?
Compare with the cost of repairing tarmac holes. But Raytheon must be glad.
Posted by: estouxim | Apr 6, 2017 11:07:33 PM | 100