Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 30, 2017

Dumb And Vile - Independent Falls For Prank, Smears Other Journalists

The British daily Independent falls for a hilarious prank. It interprets some random lines on a picture of the Okay-gesture as a political message. Having thus failed it builds on its own stupidity to smear other outlets and journalists.

The anonymous Internet message board 4chan.org is well known for hilarious stunts played on ignorants and naive Internet novices.

4chan users have been instrumental in pranks such as hijacking Internet destinations to cause images of Rick Astley to appear in place of their content, coordinating attacks against other websites and Internet users, and posting threats of violence in order to elicit individual and public reactions. The Guardian once summarized the 4chan community as "lunatic, juvenile [...] brilliant, ridiculous and alarming."

In February 2017 some users of the 4chan sub-board for political incorrect stuff /pol/ launched a prank campaign to convince people that the "okay" hand-gesture, widely used with positive connotation, actually stands for White Power. The OK gesture is not cultural universal, but it is also not racist in any way or form:

The gesture is widely used to mean "all is well" or "good". Where the word "OK" may mean a thing is merely satisfactory or mediocre, as in "the food was OK", the gesture is commonly understood as a signal of approval, and is sometimes used synonymously with the Western "thumbs up" gesture.


One of hundreds of OK-sign stock photo: "Happy executive man"

Then 4chan starts its prank:




And some idiots fell for the stunt. Two month later The Independent is outraged, O U T R A G E D!, that journalists would use the okay gesture when they, for the first time, received their coveted press pass for the White House briefings.


bigger

From the Independent smear piece:

Freelance journalist Mike Cernovich and Cassandra Fairbanks, a reporter for Russian news outlet Sputnik, posed for a picture behind the podium in the White House briefing room. In the photo, they are making a hand sign that can be used to signify “white power.”

“Just two people doing a white power hand gesture in the White House,” Fusion senior reporter Emma Roller tweeted, alongside a screenshot of the picture.

Ms Fairbanks, however, claims the hand gesture was not a reference to the white power movement. She pointed to her partial Puerto Rican heritage as evidence that she is not a white supremacist.

“White power!!!!!!! Except I'm Puerto Rican. Can it be PR power?!” she tweeted.

On top of that nonsense the author falsely claims that the contentious Anti-Defamation League interprets the one-handed OK-guesture as meaning White Power. It does no such thing.

To characterize Sputnik, an official news site of the Russian government, as "alt-right" is hilarious. But to fall for this obvious nonsense, to smear journalists as "alt-right members" for using an well known and innocuous gesture, and to create #fakenews from it, is dumb and vile.

When Cassandra Fairbanks, the lefty Sputnik journo, smells "PR power" behind the non-story, she demonstrates a way higher qualification for real journalism than the Independent scribe Emily Shugerman who fell for the prank.

Here, Ms Shugerman and Ms Roller, is another OK-gesture - one exclusively for you. Interpret it as you like:

Posted by b on April 30, 2017 at 05:16 AM | Permalink

Comments

The Independent is just the latest bunch of fake pundits to have fallen on the double-edged sword of believing too much of their own bullshit and then taking themselves too seriously.
Betcha they...
1. Won't learn anything from the experience.
2. Will blame somebody else.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Apr 30, 2017 5:53:28 AM | 1

Silly people, everyone knows it is the Illuminati 666 sign. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/756924/What-do-Donald-Trump-hand-signals-mean-Illuminati-okay-devil

Posted by: Kacey | Apr 30, 2017 5:57:48 AM | 2

"lunatic, juvenile" covers it. cover anything but the news. the independent, not you, b.

Posted by: jfl | Apr 30, 2017 6:15:00 AM | 3

OMG!

Am Outraged, OUTRAGED, O U T R A G E D! I tell you !

Well, actually, not really, not even a teensy little bit. Quite clever, deviously subtle 4Chan campaign ;)

F$%king corporate controlled MSM frauds, click-baiters, stenographers, propagandists & presstitutes ... a Free & Open Press ? Professionalism or ethics ? Pfft!

Posted by: Outraged | Apr 30, 2017 6:57:42 AM | 4

Notice that B began his post with "The British daily 'Independent' falls for a hilarious prank ..."

Emily Shugerman's CV shows she was educated in Los Angeles and worked in various senior editorial roles at media based in Los Angeles and New York.

There's nothing in that Independent article that suggests Shugerman's article was reprinted from one of the magazines / news media / blogs she works for. Is the Independent now dependent on a stable of American and other writers to supply it and other British media (and maybe other Anglophone media outside the US and the UK) with rubbish and second-rate stenography?

Posted by: Jen | Apr 30, 2017 7:40:21 AM | 5

Trump does the "okay" hand gesture as he speaks.
http://tinyurl.com/jwby9da

Posted by: Curtis | Apr 30, 2017 8:12:59 AM | 6

http://tinyurl.com/nyeczha
Be seeing you. (The Prisoner)

Posted by: Curtis | Apr 30, 2017 8:16:58 AM | 7

In the latest campaign, 4chan is spreading the myth that the peace sign (2 finger V) is a secret bigot sign that means 2 genders.

Help this meme spread.

Posted by: Anon | Apr 30, 2017 8:35:05 AM | 8

A couple of months ago, The Guardian ran a piece by George Monbiot on 4chan and the vlogger PewDiePie, in which he derided 4chan and PewDiePie's followers as being so immersed in gaming and virtual reality that they have lost all connections to the real world and behave like hermits, and as a result become vulnerable to brainwashing by far right propaganda. PewDiePie's video mocking Nazism was treated as if he was actually giving succour to Nazis.

"Our greatest peril? Screening ourselves off from reality"
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/28/greatest-peril-screening-reality-4chan-pewdiepie-nothing-matters-fascism

Not surprisingly Monbiot's article elicited a lot of jeers, not least from PewDiePie himself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/5wrvmm/the_guardians_george_monbiot_immersed_in_life/

Of course in the meantime The Guardian continues to support the regime in Ukraine.

Posted by: Jen | Apr 30, 2017 8:39:06 AM | 9

It's a little more complicated than 'b' makes out. Neither he nor the Independent are 100% right.

Yes, the bent thumb and index finger touching to form a circle does mean 'A OK'. However, just as the V for Victory in Europe gesture (like Churchill made) changed to mean 'peace' during the hippie movement, so to has this gesture evolved among Trump supporters and a broad swathe of dissident rightist. The alt-right's adoption of the gesture derives from Pepe the frog (their symbol), who is often presented forming it in various memes. When Pepe makes the gesture, he's insinuating he is smugly aware of a deep counter cultural truth. When rightists do it, they're signalling they identify with this niche socio-political milieu.

However, b is correct on the 'white power' prank. That was never organically part of the meaning. In fact, Pepe generally only has thumb and index finger in memes, so he can never form 'W H'. Everybody from straight up Nazis (what the alt right calls 14/88ers), the alt-right, and the alt-lite (rightist libertarians, Breitbart, Milo, etc) use Pepe with a sense of ownership, so its fair to say Pepe and the gesture can accommodate white nationalist (what the media calls white 'supremacist') sentiments. But nothing in the gesture explicitly spells this out, and '14/88ers' only contribute one of many aspects to the symbolic meaning.

Anyway, as someone who broadly aligns with the alt-right, I hope that clears things up for the 'alt-left' here.

Posted by: lemur | Apr 30, 2017 8:45:40 AM | 10

@Jen

all unmoderated internet forums become right wing, which is rather interesting. The left likes to pretend only people who are 'uneducated' and hopelessly prejudiced can hold what they describe as 'far right' views. That's what's so terrifying about the left. Only deductive discourse is permitted. Question the premises and you're placed outside 'humanity'.

Consider if you lived in a (gasp) fascist society, espousing anarchist views from visiting an online forum would be explained in precisely the same terms. 'Truth regimes' enforce ideological orthodoxy by adjusting the social mechanisms that module the lives of the vast majority. On the margins outside the influence of the totalizing liberal state of today, contrary views flourish. The ruling regime naturally characterizes these as 'propaganda' - i.e., they don't align with the basic premises they hold true. One might say 4chan users are actually the more objective subjects since they are less influenced by the day to day enculturation of bourgeois sensibilities. They have the distance to imagine and even experience a different zeitgeist.

As Joseph Schumpeter said, 'ultimate values are beyond the range of logic to reconcile'.

Posted by: lemur | Apr 30, 2017 9:02:21 AM | 11

*modulate

Posted by: lemur | Apr 30, 2017 9:03:16 AM | 12

Isn't such story more appropriate for the first of April, not nearly the first of May? Are we being codswalloped, codded by the delusional 'The Guardian' with its 'flake news', not even fake news?

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Apr 30, 2017 10:11:42 AM | 13

It seems a bit of a stretch to call Fairbanks, who supports politicians like Trump and Le Pen, a "lefty journo".

Posted by: Tom Allen | Apr 30, 2017 10:33:48 AM | 14

The true meaning of this gesture is that MSG is good for you.

Posted by: hopehely | Apr 30, 2017 11:33:53 AM | 15

lemur says:

One might say 4chan users are actually the more objective subjects since they are less influenced by the day to day enculturation of bourgeois sensibilities. They have the distance to imagine and even experience a different zeitgeist

yeah, while they seem to be a phenomenon more identified with the alt-right, i always kinda liked their more radical left, Dadaistic bent. whatever...

on a political level, i remember they endorsed Ron Paul in 2008, and also when their more hacktivist offshoot, Anonymous, attacked the likes of Paypal and American Express for freezing Julian Assange's assets.

Posted by: john | Apr 30, 2017 12:42:44 PM | 16

"That's what's so terrifying about the left." Yeah, like Senator McCain, that guys a raging Maoist!

Posted by: ruralito | Apr 30, 2017 12:50:24 PM | 17

Oh, and don't forget the Saudis! That's some cold-hearted Communism right there!

Posted by: ruralito | Apr 30, 2017 1:08:07 PM | 18

in brazil, that gesture has an entirely different meaning
hint: it has to do with female anatomy

Posted by: mauisurfer | Apr 30, 2017 2:05:07 PM | 19

all these western msm have become almost completely irrelevant.. the independent, guardian, etc, etc...nyt, wapo, wsj - who cares? only old folks read them! the younger generation are going to stay focused on video gaming and don't seem to care about any of these old school media outlets.. now, i understand all those old fogies who are calling a lot of shots politically will continue to read and sell that crap, but i would like to think young people are not going to buy into it the same way.. tell me i am wrong.. if someone like 4chan wants to jerk them about - fine... if there is some humour to be found in it - even better..

Posted by: james | Apr 30, 2017 2:23:23 PM | 20

@Tom Allan a bit of a stretch to call Fairbanks, who supports politicians like Trump and Le Pen, a "lefty journo"

She supported Sanders. When he lost the primary she changed to Trump.
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-37507542
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/Why-This-Sanders-Supporter-is-Boarding-the-Trump-Train-20160713-0018.html
Has written mostly about police violence in the U.S.
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/author/cassandra/
But maybe she is really an occultist and CIA informant
http://illuminati.wikia.com/wiki/Cassandra_Fairbanks
I think she is a liberal with a libertarian streak. There are quite a bunch of those in the U.S. though they do not fit the rigid U.S. left-right distinction.

Posted by: b | Apr 30, 2017 2:35:16 PM | 21

Tom Hanks was front-paged on Yahoo with some patriotic blather and coffee makers. Hanks is the quintessential loathed Hollywood Librul friend of Obama and fake astronaut.

In as much as ol' Tom is pegged as a lefty, he like the rest of the fake-left, has little or nothing to say about the endless American war of terror.

Of course, one really can't be both a lefty and a warmonger.

This is the way the CIA likes its lefties.

Posted by: fast freddy | Apr 30, 2017 2:48:07 PM | 22

Presumably Ms. Sugarman has an editor and the Independent has A CEO who set the editorial tone and who 'okayed' (pun intended) the author's poorly researched, biased contribution? Surely they bear even greater responsibility than a junior copywriter?

Posted by: CD Waller | Apr 30, 2017 3:21:13 PM | 23

Maybe The Independent needs to publish such trash because it no longer does serious journalism, as with this example from Sputnik about the gross violation of Barrett Brown's Constitutional Rights as part of its War on Truthtellers--yet further proof that Trump is just Obama v2.0, https://sputniknews.com/world/201704301053157971-us-government-basic-rights-journalist/

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 30, 2017 5:54:12 PM | 24

Opps--"its" being the Outlaw US Empire, sTrumpet version.

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 30, 2017 5:56:02 PM | 25

There are quite a bunch of those in the U.S. though they do not fit the rigid U.S. left-right distinction.

Posted by: b

Is the left-right distinction even applicable in US (or most of the western world) anymore? The US government has swung so far to right its crazy, democrats too (Republicans are off the spectrum if it exists).

Its crazy to me that people (not you) in the US will label someone like a US democratic party candidate as some ultra leftist ideologue. And liberalism has just become a catch all PR term, or is used as a pleasant synonym for neoliberalism. Conservatism as well has come to mean basically the same thinf as well.

Honestly anybody still rallying passionately under a banner like 'liberal' or 'alt right' or 'libertarian' is missing the mark in my eyes. These political groups with such incredibly vaguely defined codes and ideologies don't seem to bring out the best in people and never work for positive change, just smugness and practical jokes etc. And talking about how stupid the outgroup is. I'm sure we all use words to describe our political outlooks and I don't mean to take away from that, just the people who get swept up in these vaguely defined notions.

I get that the corporate media is joke though, this is news to anyone. I think your time is better spent on analysis of world events and foreign policy, not practical jokes. I think the discussion it creates is of a much higher calibre as well. These pieces only serve to confirm what we are already aware of many times over. I really don't mean any offense, I love your work and have come here everyday for years. Just wanted to give you my thoughts.

Posted by: George Smiley | Apr 30, 2017 6:41:00 PM | 26

Lemur @ 11: Hope you don't mind me reposting my original comment at 9 and your reply at 11 over to Off-Guardian.org where there is a post already on Media Lens shafting George Monbiot for his recent tweets holding the Syrian government to blame for the Khan Sheykhoun CW attack and citing the recent French intel report and the likes of (get ready to laugh) Eliot Higgins as credible sources!

https://off-guardian.org/2017/04/29/media-lens-skewers-monbiots-syria-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-65207

Posted by: Jen | Apr 30, 2017 6:44:28 PM | 27

Just more semantics.."Yawn"

Watch and care about what people do, not about what they say....

Posted by: ben | Apr 30, 2017 8:23:49 PM | 28

I think it's much safer to just use the middle finger and leave it at that.
No misunderstandings, universal sign for FU,
which I would I feel safe showing to anyone in Washington who might be taking my photo .

Posted by: Perimetr | Apr 30, 2017 10:55:10 PM | 29

Cassandra Fairbanks isn't a lefty. A "liberal with a libertarian streak" is a just a libertarian, which is a center right ideology at best.

What does this story demonstrate beyond the dangers of relying on unverified information from social media? I certainly don't see how a journalist falling for a 4chan troll suggests a Public Relations company is at play.

Posted by: lefty | Apr 30, 2017 11:15:43 PM | 30

When the subject changes to an Open Thread or else to Iran, Korea, Syria, China or US foreign policy, I would like to post more about an analysis I've been reading, that seems to illustrate China's strategic thinking with regard to US "financial terrorism", and China's positioning in response.

For now I want to drop the link at least - MOA is the first place I rush to share what seems enlightening to me:
America’s financial war strategy

This is written by Alasdair Mcleod, dated April 20. Mcleod is a gold and precious metals guy - so note that this is his focus and agenda - but I have always admired his analytical acumen. And I can't fault his understated and elegant summation of recent events and the mystifying Trump turnaround. He offers a monetary reason for this that makes sense to me, and which I'm guessing Trump would immediately and instinctively understand: that the havoc the US creates in the world is to create capital flight, back to the US dollar. Remember, this is an appraisal of what China itself concludes at its highest and deepest levels of governance and strategy.

I would love to expound at length, but OT is OT, so I'll wait for a more appropriate thread.

Posted by: Grieved | Apr 30, 2017 11:38:32 PM | 31

I assume most here are aware that 4chan was the outfit behind the Trump golden showers punk job, and they bragged about it way back last fall, before it ever showed up in Steele's dodgy dossier.

Posted by: William Rood | Apr 30, 2017 11:44:51 PM | 32

Thanks Grieved! "MOA is the first place I rush to share what seems enlightening to me." I agree 100% and do the same, often twisting prose to get the item to fit with the topic!

Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 30, 2017 11:46:57 PM | 33

@lefty #30:

I think by "PR" she means Puerto Rican, referring to her Puerto Rican heritage.

Posted by: dave | May 1, 2017 12:35:58 AM | 34

Greived @31: OT or not, very interesting article, thanks..

Challenging the hegemony of the dollar could get a bit hairy, considering the history of those who tried.

Posted by: ben | May 1, 2017 2:16:09 AM | 35

IMO, If you want to see the best use of that hand sign out there go to Ovarian Psycos

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 1, 2017 2:28:58 AM | 36

@31 grieved

thank you very much for coming up with the link to Qiao Liang's 'speech at a book study forum of the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP’s) Central Committee'. i had seen that at one of the russian sites some months ago and was struck by its 'unusual' - from a western fake-economics perspective - analysis at the time, but could never find it again when i went back to look. i'll make my own copy this time.

Posted by: jfl | May 1, 2017 6:36:04 AM | 37

Alegations are being made that the white helmet organisstion may be going to release tapes of another attack. But do not know anything about credibility of this source.http://vinebox.co/i/BTiu5-Ih_rz/

Posted by: Paul Cockshott | May 1, 2017 7:10:24 AM | 38

@31 @37

i found the source i had seen before. perhaps the same chinese excerpts of the same speech, in two slightly differing translations ...

- PLA Strategist: The U.S. Uses Its Dollar to Dominate the World and

- One belt, one road

... although the first does give a link to the original speech excerpted, i have not been able to download it.

Posted by: jfl | May 1, 2017 7:30:19 AM | 39

@james Yes I often find myself banging my head against a brick wall at the unwillingness of my parents (both over 60) to read/watch alternative media and opinions. My uncles and aunts are similar. It's sheer intellectual laziness, nothing else. They find comfort in reading the Guardian and watching the BBC. It's like a drug to them almost. Sit down at 6 every evening and absorb 30 minutes of BBC opium! I'll say to my parents "why don't you watch RT occasionally, say once a week? Even if you believe it's total Kremlin propaganda (which my folks do), why are you not interested in even considering the Russian side of things?" My Mum would then say "well, I'll watch Al-Jazeera, that will give me an alternative take on things"....SMH! I remember about a year ago I was watching some documentary on 9/11 with my Dad and I said dont you think it's strange that Building 7 pancaked on itself without being hit by a plane? As an engineer he was somewhat intrigued by this and researched it. He found out about the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth site and admitted there was something very sinister about Building 7 and 9/11 in general. However, a few days afterwards he came back to me and said it was "all conspiracy theory nonsense". I think my Mum had basically browbeaten him into submission. I think she in particular is terrified of being stigmatised or becoming a social outcast amongst her friends if she takes a questioning line. That has a lot to do with why the older generation stick to the mainstream "script" as it were. The younger generations aren't as timid about questioning the news and the usual (as I see it) Russophobic, Zionist, corporatist narrative.

Posted by: Nick | May 1, 2017 7:39:26 AM | 40

Oh The Guardian, I really want to sit Katherine Viner down and have a real good chat with her. The once proud newspaper is now her advocacy activism safe space. Every page drips with racism toward whites, pro-Muslim, pro- regime change in Syria, pro Kiev regime, everything Russophobic. The entertainment section? if you are a white author or band, artist you automatically get 2 stars and any black or brown artist or group gets 5, regardless of merit. The new Ghostbusters a good case in point. 5 stars.

No, actually I want to give her a good smack bottom.

Posted by: Gravatomic | May 1, 2017 8:14:19 AM | 41

@Nick 40

I totally know what you mean! My father is awake, he got right into all of it after 9/11 but the Snowden revelations, the Patriot act, really got to him. My Mother? She says don't engage in whataboutery, I immediately said you got that at The Guardian! I asked her, have you noticed how it's changed since the Snowden reveals, I think she rather likes that new bottom line there, so I gave up, there's no waking her up now. And she really doesn't need to be I guess in her mind. Better happy than right and miserable knowing the truth.

Posted by: Gravatomic | May 1, 2017 8:23:49 AM | 42

Grieved says:

that the havoc the US creates in the world is to create capital flight, back to the US dollar

gosh, sounds so hygienic, prophylactic.

anyhow...ever heard of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation? formed in 2001, it pretty much spells it all out.

Posted by: john | May 1, 2017 9:16:10 AM | 43

Hey, go easy on us old guys. Some of us read the alt press along with the regular MSM. And personally, I read it with the same jaundiced eye.

Anybody who thinks that the MSM is totally in bed with the current administration isn't paying much attention. Maybe Fox is but they've always banked on being outrageously right-wing. Or is the point that the press for the most part is against Trump? Are we still beating that dead fucking horse that Trump is a breath of fresh air? Make up my mind already. If Trump's taxes are ever made public there will be a lot of red faces on both sides of the Atlantic.

Around here, and a few other sites, the idea that Putin and his people might try to infiltrate or modulate US public opinion is regarded as the worst form of heresy. He's just too noble a guy. Fuck me, if that isn't looking at the world through a rose-colored prism then I don't know what is. American presidents go on to a life of wealth and privilege after leaving office with the exception of Jimmy Carter but mostly try to stay clean during their tenure for fear of impeachment. Putin's making his pelf while still on the job, and don't make too big a fuss about it or there's likely going to be a 'fake news' story about your early demise.

I remember the idealism of my younger years. I was a hippy and damn proud of it. Don't trust anybody over thirty they said. Now, I'm supposedly too comfortable to consider all the ideas promulgated on alternative media? In a pig's arse, more likely just too old a cat to get fucked by a kitten.

Posted by: peter | May 1, 2017 10:03:23 AM | 44

Jen @ #27

I had a go at him myself on Twitter yesterday

QuestioningItAll‏ @QuestioningItAl Apr 30

@GeorgeMonbiot U were a #Respected_Journalist once but no longer. Giving credibility 2 #AlQaedas #WhiteHelmets makes u a #Propagandist #Sad

His tweets about the gassing & mentioning #BellingCrap as a re-LIE-able source were more than enough to give him a spray, albeit a mildish one.

IMO I believe I'm correct on his once being a reasonable journalist . . . . up until the advent of Global Warming. That's when it became obvious to me at least that he'd "sold Out"

Posted by: KiwiCris | May 1, 2017 10:18:59 AM | 45

@peter/44:

I'm with you and in the same age group. I agree that most Boomers are an incurious lot, even those who do consider themselves, uh??, Leftish/Liberal/whatever.

But I have a lot of friends and acquaintances around the globe who've been skeptical all along, who have read/watched the MSM sparingly, etc. We're out there and continue to fight in various ways. It's just gotten exponentially harder these days, is all.

Frankly I'm waaaay to the left of my GenX nieces and nephews who've always mocked and derided me for my viewpoints. So I'm not seeing that generation - raised in the era of Reagan and still desparately trying to dream Reagan's dream of shining city on the hill - being any better than boomers, and often are worse and more in the "libertarian" modality. Libertarian? Just another word for: Give me MINE, eff off.

If the youngsters can come up with some better ways of improving things, then I'm all for it. Go for it. You've got the energy, that's for sure. But don't count out everyone who's older than you. Many of us are on the same side.

I tossed out my tv years and years ago and listen to the radio sparingly. I also read widely but remain skeptical of all sites. It's the only way.

Good luck to us all.

Posted by: RUKidding | May 1, 2017 11:31:34 AM | 46

The Guardian a once proud newspaper? It was all an illusion: http://www.medialens.org/23_fg_75_lc/viewtopic.php?t=3362&sid=a81b407ef65b8122bbfaddfefefa0f52

Posted by: Shakesvshav | May 1, 2017 12:02:19 PM | 47

...
I remember about a year ago I was watching some documentary on 9/11 with my Dad and I said dont you think it's strange that Building 7 pancaked on itself without being hit by a plane? As an engineer he was somewhat intrigued by this and researched it. He found out about the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth site and admitted there was something very sinister about Building 7 and 9/11 in general. However, a few days afterwards he came back to me and said it was "all conspiracy theory nonsense". I think my Mum had basically browbeaten him into submission. I think she in particular is terrified of being stigmatised or becoming a social outcast amongst her friends if she takes a questioning line. That has a lot to do with why the older generation stick to the mainstream "script" as it were. The younger generations aren't as timid about questioning the news and the usual (as I see it) Russophobic, Zionist, corporatist narrative.
Posted by: Nick | May 1, 2017 7:39:26 AM | 40

Casey Jones was an engineer. Street sweepers and lavatory cleaners are sanitation engineers. What engineering discipline did your Dad study if he was too dumb and incurious to notice that Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Trufe is a long list of ppl who are NOT architects OR engineers? In fact, anyone can check the list for themselves and confirm that it's bunkum - unless their lack of curiosity is genetic/hereditary, of course.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 1, 2017 12:20:39 PM | 48

The topic took me in an interesting direction. Back a number of years ago my daughter intrigued me by being introduced to baby sign language with her daughter before the latter was old enough to verbalize her needs and wants. The communication was amazingly effective. So, I found online the following message:

"Usage: Use the Okay Both to affirm and to ask when engaging with our babies. For example we ask them if the clothes we are suggesting are okay or if they feel ok after tripping. This sign will prove to be useful for many years to come when you are in a social context and need to provide your child with visual affirmation."

Also, thanks to Grieved @31 - not sure what the sign for OT would be but it gets an OK from me.

Posted by: juliania | May 1, 2017 12:20:59 PM | 49

Putin as straw man. I never said he was a nice guy - a guy I'd like to have a beer with, although he appears to be capable of intelligent conversation. Prefer him for that over Trump.

For sure, Putin is capable and has committed nefarious acts. Probably does some "hacking". (What difference does it make?! - h/t Hillary the giggling mass murderer).

Putin is looking out for his own. From what I read, he is very popular among his people (presumably for looking out for his own).

Took about 2 seconds for Trump to abandon his vaunted job-creating, isolationist domestic agenda (and embrace every draconian Republican measure that he can) to join the mass murderers' hair club for Presidents.

Wasn't Putin's fault.

Now because of the bombings (indicating MIC support, Yinon Plan Support) the onslaught against Trump (they love Boilerplate Veep Silverhair) by the usual suspects (MSM, Congressmen) has diminished. He's winning over nasty SOB's like Lindsey Graham. Things are very bad.

Posted by: fastfreddy | May 1, 2017 1:58:04 PM | 50

https://www.yahoo.com/news/two-members-alt-appear-white-164630333.html

Yahoo has fallen for it, too. They re-report The Independent's allegations. That's how it's done. It's like Bush making the Iraq yellow cake allegations by saying "the British government has learned ..." The gullible and biased buy into it while the rest recognize the BS tactics used.


Posted by: Curtis | May 1, 2017 8:31:51 PM | 51

Then again, The Independent has other problems:

"In January, Kim Jong-un said that North Korea had entered the final stage of preparation for a test-launch of an intercontinental ballistic missile, which would have the capability of reaching the intercontinental US."
from:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/trump-north-korea-kim-jong-un-nuclear-crisis-meeting-under-right-circumstances-latest-news-a7712156.html

I wonder where the "intercontinental US" is and whether they have proof readers who check their work before publication.

One of the clickbait teasers says, "Ezekiel Elliott's Girlfriend Will Make your Jaws-Drop." How many jaws can one man have that this hottie girlfriend will make them all drop? Maybe the clickbait people write for The Independent.

Posted by: Curtis | May 1, 2017 8:39:55 PM | 52

Grieved | Apr 30, 2017 11:38:32 PM | 31,

I read the opening grafs of the McLeod article. There is no fucking way China would be able to get oil priced in pre-1971 gold. The action would be insane on so many fronts.

1) that action would price oil in gold, and the rest of the world is not going to go along with the extra effort of scrambling for the limited commodity that has to be dug out of the ground, and each time it is (discovering a new mine, say) and the supply goes up, the value [price] of gold goes down.

2) Oil producers would have to agree to accept gold in payment. Why would they do that? Currently, the majority of gold is moved from one country's cage in the basement of the Federal Reserve in Manhattan to another country's gold cage in the same basement with a pallet mover. Nobody takes possession.

3) Gold is a commodity, not legal tender. Electronic transfer in goods and services is done in nanoseconds globally. Bogging the world down in gold movement is 19th C.

4) In order for China’s Yuan to take over as the world’s reserve currency, it’s going to have to replicate the $750 billion/day US trade in treasury securities…AND…it’s going to have to offer the interest on savings (what a treasury security actually is: it’s like a CD that banks and governments put their US profits and savings into) that the US offers its holders of treasury securities. China has $1.2-$1.7 trillion dollars worth of treasury securities parked at the Federal Reserve in NYC earning interest. Those are China’s profits from selling us shit. It’s not USD we borrowed.

BTW, when China decides to cash them in and moves its capital and interest back to its checking account at the Fed, it’s called paying off the National Debt. That’s how it’s labeled internally at the US Treasury and Federal Reserve by the economists working in the bowels. Because from the federal government's point-of-view, that is what it is doing: paying off what it owes back to its treasury securities holders.

Posted by: MRW | May 2, 2017 12:18:45 AM | 53

Grieved | Apr 30, 2017 11:38:32 PM | 31,. . . .more,

Treasury securities are how the US federal government creates new USD in the real economy (which has another inside-baseball name of Net Financial Assets (NFA). It's the genesis of the statement "printing money."

Except they aren't printed anymore. They are all electronic since April 2012, 2013, or 2014.

Posted by: MRW | May 2, 2017 12:31:56 AM | 54

The New York Times has been getting away with Zionist/Globalist lies and warmongering and naked bias

for long enough.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/02/21/meet-the-new-york-times-new-israel-palestine-news-chief/

My hope is they soon publish a bunch of Leftie Snacks on 4chan's cisgendered nazi patriarchy....

because its not political opinions that matter so much as the neocon herished notion of the Noble Lie.

NYT lies are not noble. They are Jewish Supremacist (they are - Friedman, Stone, Brooks, and others fit that bill)and Corporatist at absolute heart. Their role in ginning up the war on Iraq is well known, the Israeli-centric reasons therefore suppressed. What sort of journalistic ethics sends Zionist Jews with kids in the IDF to over Palestine or the attocities inflicted on Gaza - another area where the Jewishness and Zionism of management and reporters is implicated in empirically verifiable slanted coverage.

https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2014/02/06/the-truth-about-cease-fire-violations-between-israel-and-gaza/

And no, Krauthammer is neither honest nor clever: the naked lie his Zionist hammer for all nails

Or would be implicated... it is 'hate' to presume Alan Dershowitz might be dually loyal in exactly the way its impossible to criticize the Pope these days.

4chan overdoes the nazi thing although its mainly to vex the normies who peak into the chaos to decry the 'hate.'

Well, 'hate' seems to be mostly about suppressing truth, not lies, and suppressing the group/identity rights of white, European males... in EVERY 'white' country... why should Sweden and Ireland have replacement level immigration? Ask Alan Shatter, ask Barbara Specter.

Hate (sans violence and statism) *isnt* the problem and 4chan knows this...

The problem (of violence and statism) is the noble lie by ignoble racists.


http://mycatbirdseat.com/2013/06/the-machiavelian-threefold-game-of-the-neoconservatives/

The problem is Zionist power and influence in the era of the Oded Yinon and Kalergi plans.

The problem is the FEAR OF TRUTH.

icucme!

Posted by: Matt C | May 2, 2017 1:10:21 AM | 55

I love this - it takes me right back to the Obama 'terrorist fist-bump' campaign launched by Fox News, back in the day... but wait! Fox News is a 'serious' MSM outlet! So the terrorist fist-bump must have been true!

I get so confused between deliberate 4-chan pranks and rubbish made up by the MSM sometimes I can't think straight... I need someone to tell me which is real news, and which is a prank! How about it, WaPo, want the job? I promise to believe the Russians ate Hillary's election, honestly.

Posted by: Jon Cloke | May 2, 2017 6:30:01 AM | 56

hoarse @ 48

Huh? Oh my...

2500+ names total on this page:
http://www.ae911truth.org/signatures/ae.html

Using "CTRL+F", my browser tells me there are:
230+ hits on "AIA"
600+ hits on "architect"
1000+ hits on "engineer"
and
0 hits on "sanitation"

Did you accidentally read only the "general" list of signatories?
http://www.ae911truth.org/signatures/general.html

Posted by: dumbass | May 2, 2017 11:55:18 AM | 57

Hello B and chat,

Just to let you know, in Brazil this gesture means "take in the ass".
But here people used to release the finger forming the circle.

That's it, cya.

Posted by: Zico the musketeer | May 2, 2017 5:57:50 PM | 58

OK!

Posted by: brian | May 3, 2017 12:15:37 AM | 59

...
Did you accidentally read only the "general" list of signatories?
http://www.ae911truth.org/signatures/general.html
Posted by: dumbass | May 2, 2017 11:55:18 AM | 57

No.
Pre-2011, when I did most of my online scribbling at Xymphora/naqniq/niqnaq when Gage was touting his AE list as having exceeded 1000 signatories, I went through the list name by name counting the signatories who I considered to be qualified, accredited, currently-practicing, Architects or Structural Engineers registered and affiliated with their respective professional body.
At that time there ware hardly any signatories conforming to that criteria. From memory fewer than 50 out of 1000+.
That's fraudulent misrepresentation of the bona fides of the other 950+ signatories and, like a leopard, a Gage doesn't change its spots.

PS; You could go through them one by one and count them yourself (if you weren't so afraid of discovering the Trufe).
It only took a few hours when I did it properly.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 3, 2017 1:16:24 PM | 60

Dumbass,
Architects and Engineers (and most other members of so called 'professions') are issued with a Practising Certificate issued by the Authorised Body which oversees the conduct, ethics, and qualifications of the members of that profession.
No Practising Certificate = No professional commissions, no right to call oneself an Architect or Engineer, no professional indemnity insurance.

A Practising Certificate has a Date and a Serial number and is on a Register accessible to The Public through the Org which issued the certificate.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 3, 2017 1:42:14 PM | 61

@ Hoarsewhisperer | May 3, 2017 1:16:24 PM | 60

Probably a more informed group to question would be those trained officers of the fire fighting department about structural conditions in fire environments. See if any would put a firefighter on the roof of any building having a steel structure. They know, by training and experience that steel looses most of its strength to maintain its shape at about 500º C and a roof supported by steel is slated for collapse. Not one would place a fireman in that danger.

I listened to 11 Sept. live broadcast in Europe. I do vividly recall a segment reporting radio traffic concerning building #7 shortly afternoon NY time where fire chiefs were discussing sending men into the building. It was noted there being alarming noises coming from the building, sounding like steel structures giving way to their loads and the chief on the scene refused to let any personnel enter the building to contain the fires raging there. Good call that! Ignorance has taken over any discussion of what transpired and any further exploration will have to await new, uncontaminated ears. I will join you on that bench, the sophomoric lot will outshout reasonable communications for the foreseeable future.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | May 4, 2017 1:26:52 PM | 62

When I worked for Nissan Motors; they added a second warehouse. It had wooden posts, as opposed to steel posts. I questioned the lead construction foreman about that and he explained the same thing; in a fire, the wood will long outlast steel support posts.
Kudos to;
Hoarsewhisperer
and T-Bear

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 5, 2017 3:45:14 AM | 63

T-Bear, V Arnold.
(9/11 Trufe)

The NIST report is quite comprehensive and, if memory serves, devotes a small section to responding to the claims made by Trufers. Trufers hate the NIST report because:
1. It provided real-world explanations for what went wrong at WTC on 9/11.
2. It satisfied the legitimate concerns of (millions of) Industry Professionals responsible for erecting safe buildings in the future.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 5, 2017 8:40:57 AM | 64

Hoarsewhisperer | May 5, 2017 8:40:57 AM | 64

Indeed; I live in the real world; not some Trufer construct.
While I think democracy (in the U.S.) died on November 22, 1963; I think September 11, 2001 was the coup de grace'; taken full advantage of by TPTB.

Posted by: V. Arnold | May 6, 2017 5:19:06 AM | 65

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