Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 04, 2017

Open Thread 2017-09

News & views ...

(I am on an extended family weekend which includes some ceremonies and festivities. Therefore: light posting)

You may want to discuss if "Obama wiretapped Trump". Not mentioned at the link is the Obama abuse of classification discussed earlier here.

My guess on the wiretapping:

  • The Obama administration did this at least before the election.
  • The "official target" was not Trump but someone else.
  • Nothing usable was found on Trump.

 

Posted by b on March 4, 2017 at 10:33 AM | Permalink

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The amazing thing is that after 8 yeArs of the corporate media trotting everything Obama said into print without so much as a quick google search for verification, and after creating the Russia Trump axis out of thin air, they demand facts now, setting a dangerous precedent for themselves.

Posted by: Anon | Mar 4, 2017 10:42:07 AM | 1

@Anon 1

Out of thin air? Five, count 'em, of Trump's inner circle had meetings with Kisylak. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but it's disingenuous to suggest there was no basis for the press to bring it up.


Posted by: peter | Mar 4, 2017 10:54:57 AM | 2

Breitbart News published an unfounded conspiracy theory, the President read it and retweeted it because it suits his narrative and distracts the discussion from him and his own people, and now it is a matter of doctrine and faith to those who support Trump, or in the case of this site, people who mistrust Obama.

And now it has a life of its own and will be discussed as it it had any actual merit.

Welcome to the New Media Reality.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 4, 2017 11:10:38 AM | 3

And how many met with Israeli officiels? My bet is that it's way more than 5. Odds are, all of them.

As for wiretapping Trump, the Donald must be a complete fool if he didn't suspect they were listening to him. That should be considered a given in current US politics and campaigning.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 4, 2017 11:11:50 AM | 4

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 4, 2017 11:11:50 AM | 4

Actually, the pro-Israel Crowd in USA are ramping up the anti-semitism hokum. That's Tr-r-raditionally a sign that there's something they want to push off the MSM's agenda.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 4, 2017 11:32:49 AM | 5

Diplomat, Perestroika Ambassador with Charm, Soft Spoken ...

Who is Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador rattling Trump's presidency?

Posted by: Oui | Mar 4, 2017 11:51:22 AM | 6

Murdoch's news enterprise knew of the FBI Fisa warrant – see article on Nov. 7, 2016

FBI 'Granted FISA Warrant' Covering Trump Camp's Ties To Russia

  By Louise Mensch | 10:18 pm, November 7, 2016 |

You too thinking of NSA / Unit 8200 agreement spying for friends?

Posted by: Oui | Mar 4, 2017 11:58:50 AM | 7

as if folks don't talk with others... 'McCarthyism' is exactly what it is.. meanwhile moa posters on the witch hunt too - must be exceptional people, lol...

Posted by: james | Mar 4, 2017 11:59:38 AM | 8

French elections. … Are turning into a Vaudeville Farce. :) - the F are really good at vaudeville, so maybe that is fitting.

To empty French politics of its substance (considerable as compared to other EU), it was decided to shorten the pres. term from 7 years to 5, and to personify the pres. election, by copying the US model.

The UPR promptly renamed itself Les Républicains and the Socialists are dying to call themselves Democrats but don’t dare right now (> might lose some of their older base.) The two main parties instored ‘primaries’ along the US model, on the rationale of ‘democratisation’, thereby lengthening once more the time, energy, discussion, media grip-circus, money (etc.) spent on the election.

Another step - divorcing candidates from ‘parties’ is taking place right now. E.g. Macron doesn’t have one (nor a platform at time of writing) and Marine le Pen has scrubbed all mention of the FN from her website and speech. She presents herself as Marine for Prez, her symbol is a blue rose without thorns, that is it.

Was supposed to go forward:

Juppé -an old hack- to win the LR primary. Didn’t work out, ‘le peuple’ chose Fillon - a bourgeois Catholic who defends Xtians in Syria and is in favor of ‘détente’ with Russia.

Valls - a neo-lib born-again Zionist, ex-MinFin and responsible for the el-Khomri labor law - was set to win the Socialist primary. Didn’t work out, ‘le peuple’ preferred Hamon, a ‘trad’ socialist (sorta Corbyn figure.)

Le Pen enduring. The election was supposed to be a contest between Le Pen and either Juppé or Valls, either would do, with Le Pen soundly beaten.

Then what? *First* on the agenda was to get rid of Fillon, as there was no doubt he would win, absolutely certain (imho correct.) So, attack on Fillon. In itself, imho, he might have been able to overcome it, but the judiciary, the PTB, and various influences have seen to it that he is now vilified and all his support (staff and so on) is evaporating like ice in the summer sun, or rats leaving the proverbial.

Two other important withdrawals from the race: Bayrou (centrist, MoDem) has said Fillon must withdraw, and he, Bayrou, supports Macron, and withdrew himself. (He supported Juppé in the primary.) Note Bayrou is not a nobody - had the French had a rank-voting system he would have won the last election. Jadot, the Ecologiste candidate, has also withdrawn, and throws his hat to Hamon.

*Second* push and revive the ‘ersatz’ candidacy of Macron. This was invented, created, by money that is completely obscure in origin - Macron has no party but a “Movement” - En Marche! - move on, forward march, or something like that, and even as an ex-Rotschild banker, is not a rich man. He is an empty-headed neo-lib. I.e. Macron was a sort of ‘third man place-holder card.’

*Third*, continue to bash Le Pen, to lower her score in the first and second rounds, and encourage, support, all those who ‘will never vote for the FN’ with some ‘factual’ arguments.

*Fourth* continue to see to it that no ‘outside - disturbing’ candidates can enter the field. Asselineau, UPR, first on the list (Gaullist, anti-EU/euro, and quite popular, taking into account he gets no MSM time at all.) Because such candidates may scatter votes in the first round in surprising ways.

Fifth, as per usual, worrying about the ‘Left’ as Mélenchon (France Insoumise, a sort of ‘personal party’) and Hamon (Socialist) cannot make a deal and the ‘left’ vote will be split is a waste of time.

In Eng I could find only, in the same sorta direction, D. Johnstone, Feb 17, good, some might find more informative, rounded, well-written, etc.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/02/17/france-another-ghastly-presidential-election-campaign-the-deep-state-rises-to-the-surface/

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 4, 2017 12:00:29 PM | 9

The intelligence community (CIA, NSA, etc.) no longer has the power to control the political dialog through its corporate media favorites. The power and influence of the alternative media (internet) continues to grow. Is is a disruptive influence.

The outcome of this dynamic is not clear. I am sure that readers of this post will have their opinion as to the outcome.

Posted by: simjam | Mar 4, 2017 12:05:36 PM | 10

Or - it's totally usable and Trump is trying to neutralize it in advance by claiming it was illegally obtained.

For an innocent victim, his actions appear guilty.

Posted by: Horatio Parker | Mar 4, 2017 12:17:58 PM | 11

The political vendetta against me continues. After I uploaded my most recent video ( https://youtu.be/d_H3VQTXZx0 ) I got hit with DOZENS AND DOZENS of notifications from YouTube. Here is just one of the many emails I received:

Hi Representative Press ☞,

Thanks for submitting your video(s) for monetization. We didn't approve your video(s) for monetization because the content in your video(s) or video details may not be advertiser-friendly.

If you believe that the content in your video is advertiser-friendly, you can request an additional review below:

"Hillary FALSELY claims Bernie was not there for Health Care"
"Top Comment on FAKE! Viral Video of Drunk (Drunken) South Korean Woman ..."
"Do These Videos Look Unfriendly to You?"
"Vote for Gravel Today in D.C., Maryland or Virginia"

Please note that review times may vary, and YouTube reserves the right to make the final decision whether to monetize a video. All videos are subject to our Terms of Service and Community Guidelines, and may be removed from the site if they don't meet those standards.

Thanks,

The YouTube Team

Whoever is behind this has no shame. And look at these examples, how can anyone claim THESE videos "may not be advertiser-friendly"?!:

"High Voltage" https://youtu.be/u_WpHq_KF2U
"Whites Only Soap Dispenser Debunked" https://youtu.be/qWHyLbTnU1A
"Was Tigger Getting Screwed With by Father and Son? EXTRA VID" https://youtu.be/p0ifdL7aegg
"Truth about Wall Street Bailout: How "Free Market Capitalism" Really Works. Nader & Chomsky on Gam https://youtu.be/iVDPxVy7h38

Posted by: Tom Murphy | Mar 4, 2017 12:20:42 PM | 12

Trump's new man at CIA, Pompeo, his NSA chief McMaster, Comey, the guy who Trump held on to because he seems to have his back can all come up with the truth on the wiretapping as fast as Trump greenlights the investigation into all previous activities by the Obama administration on the Russia compromise issue.

Sooooo, I'll be waiting for him to give the order. Wiretapping would have been done by the FBI with a FISA warrant. So, what's this new conspiracy about? He doesn't trust Comey now? Comey can inform him on what was ordered previously, the paper trail and steps taken.

However, imo, this TrumpTowergate feels like a grand distraction. Should it be discovered that Trump was compromised by the Russians (just a what if, btw, so don't jump all over me); then no one will believe it if Trump and his Breitbart minions are cranking the Obama=Nixon narrative. What he's doing is trying to compete in shock value with the Russian compromise narrative and ironically planting the dirty cop defense, ironic because Trump is so into cops being the salt of the earth. So he's appealing to the mass: If the top cops were dirty in their investigations; how can you believe the evidence they uncover? Read his tweet:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/837994257566863360

I'd bet a good lawyer could make a great case. So this implies he's already planning his defense strategy.

There is no one more in the corner of the wrongly accused than myself; but, in this case, I have to say that Trump looks like the white girl who falsely cries rape against the black guy, 'cause who's gonna believe the black guy didn't do it?

At the same time, Trump looks like the guy who's even willing to milk the legitimate defense against a crooked system used by the wrongly accused; to cover his crooked ass.

To me, dropping this premature defense narrative stinks of consciousness of guilt.

Someone I read in the comments section elsewhere put it in a way that aptly reflects this scenario. It went something like this: There's so much smoke here; you can see it from the moon.

But, hey!...don't look at Trump who may have started the fire; look at the arsonist black guy, Obama, over there who would burn your barn down too. I'm sure the illiterate mass Trump is targeting in Appalachia and racist rednecks are lapping this up already and readying their pitch forks.

Now, I'm not saying this to defend Obama's Presidency, which I could compare to Bush/Cheney. I'm calling it as I see it.

Free legal advice for Trump: When you're in a hole; STOP DIGGING.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 4, 2017 12:34:43 PM | 13

On the Israeli nuclear weapons issue, this is a pretty interesting Q & A with Senator Schumer:

Sam Husseini: You voted for the 2002 Iraq War Resolution, claiming Iraq was vigorously pursuing nuclear weapons. Do you acknowledge that Israel has nuclear weapons? [another question directed at Nancy Pelosi] ....
SH: Senator Schumer—on Israel’s nukes—do you acknowledge—
Chuck Schumer: I didn’t get your question.
SH: Do you acknowledge that Israel has nuclear weapons, sir?
CS: I’m not—you can—go read the newspapers about that. [walks away from podium]
SH: You can’t acknowledge that Israel has nuclear weapons, sir?
CS: It is a well known fact that Israel has nuclear weapons, but the Israeli government doesn’t officially talk about what kinds of weapons and where, etc.
SH: Should the U.S. government be forthright?
CS: Ok, that’s it.
Jeff Ballou (National Press Club President, news editor at Al Jazeera): Ok, we’ll move on.

Must be anti-semitism!
. . .schumer_israels_nuclear_arsenal_a_fact_cuts_off_further_questioning


On using the NSA and mass surveillance programs to target political opponents? That's always been a major risk of having such systems in place. South Korea is a good outside example:
. . .politicized-south-korean-spy-agencies-in-urgent-need-of-reform DW 2014

South Korea's intelligence agencies are susceptible to failures, politicization and intervention in domestic politics, so reform is urgently needed to restore public confidence

Posted by: nonsense factory | Mar 4, 2017 12:46:29 PM | 14

So Trump wants to increase the defense budget by about 10% or 54 billion. That's a lot of money and it has to come from somewhere. One of the places it's going to come from is the EPA. That's fine because climate change is bullshit, right?

Never mind that the streets of Miami Beach are ankle deep in saltwater at high tide or that the subways of NYC were inundated during Hurricane Sandy, Trump and his crew have decided that the conclusions of the world scientific community are based on "dubious science"

One of the areas that will be most affected from the drying up of grants and funding will be the Great Lakes. Those rust belt states of Pa, Wisc, Mich and Indiana that handed Trump the presidency are now going to be repaid by having their water supply put in jeopardy. There are eight states the depend on the lakes for water along with about 10 million Canadians. That ain't draining the swamp, that's creating a fucking swamp.

But that's not really important, is it? Neither is the increasingly authoritarian tone of his executive orders dealing with travel and the roundup of undocumented Hispanics. The important thing is that he talks to fucking Russia, that's all that matters. I guess the 54,000,000,000 bump for defense is insurance in case that doesn't work out. Or maybe it's just another president doing his bit for the MIC.

Most of these threads turn into a circle-jerk for the Trump fanboys. They lament how he's not being given a chance to set things right because he's a no-nonsense guy who cares for the real Americans. All the regulations and safety measures were put in place by bleeding heart liberals are just to keep America from being great. And the deep state hates him too. That's some combination, the tree huggers and shadowy figures who run everything. Jesus Christ, I get a headache trying to keep it all straight.

Posted by: peter | Mar 4, 2017 12:50:53 PM | 15

@ Circe | Mar 4, 2017 12:34:43 PM | 13

Look, you despise Donald Trump and "everything" he stands for. We get that. We got that months ago.

This sounds like a multiply broken record.

I do not really listen anymore. It's hard enough just figuring out what's really going on.

Please, please stop. Have mercy.

Posted by: blues | Mar 4, 2017 12:58:17 PM | 16

unrelated to this particular dumpster fire but related
'Ted Kennedy's Soviet Gambit' . Forbes 2009
https://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html

Posted by: la | Mar 4, 2017 1:55:19 PM | 17

Looks as though the Yankee-arranged assassination of Kim Jong Nam in Malaysia has achieved the desired result. Amid strident denials of complicity by NK, Malaysia has expelled the NK ambassador and is rethinking its (previously friendly) relationship with NK.

Interestingly, an early morning radio host on Friday floated speculation that the toxic chemical used in the killing may have been similar (in practical application) to 2-pack paint. This would explain how the two female dupes/perps escaped the side-effects of having it on their hands prior to the deed.
It would also explain...
1. Why two people were involved (part A + Part B required for lethality.
2. The necessity for the 'cloth' used in the attack to protect woman #2 from the effects of rubbing her Part B component onto KI Nam's Part A-contaminated face meaning her hands would have been contaminated with the combined A + B mix which killed KI Nam.
3. Such an unnecessarily sophisticated way to kill someone, in public, in Malaysia, is too AmeriKKKan to be dismissed as fantasy.
4. And it produced a perfect (anti-Phantom Menace) AmeriKKKan result.

The host in question didn't say where the theory originated and didn't say it was his own.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 4, 2017 1:56:00 PM | 18

Hoarsewhisperer@5 - "...Actually, the pro-Israel Crowd in USA are ramping up the anti-semitism hokum. That's Tr-r-raditionally a sign that there's something they want to push off the MSM's agenda..."

Or prevent from getting on the MSM's agenda. And that would be Clueless Joe@4's observation, "...And how many met with Israeli officiels? My bet is that it's way more than 5. Odds are, all of them..."

I have to laugh at how quickly those same kind of comments are quickly deleted from 'news' sites. People are smart enough to notice the hypocrisy and call it out. Some country's interference with U.S. elections is more illegal than others, I guess.

Ironic because much of the Russophobia whipped up in the U.S. is supposedly the continuation of a long-running battle of Jewish oligarch mafias - a faction of powerful pro-Israel ex-Russian oligarchs booted out by Putin vs. the ones that got to stay and are buddies with him. Jewish oligarchs in the U.S. are split, but Trump was always solidly in the pro-Moscow camp because of real estate and banking. I'm not suggesting any ideological sympathies by Trump - this was all just business for him. I confess to much ignorance of the situation though - following Russian politics is kind of like getting waterboarded. Put three Russians in a room and you'll soon have five simultaneous but different heated arguments about their politics. And I thought the French were bad.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Mar 4, 2017 2:05:08 PM | 19

@16 Too bad for ignore lists..

The race is on for Manbij! Turkey, Syria and the US are sending troops towards the town. I wonder if the US special forces are being deployed there to counter the Turkish move which would put them along the SAA even though the US was cut out of the deal Syria/Russia/PYD worked out about the transfer of Manbij back to Syria..


https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/turkey-sends-armored-vehicles-northern-aleppo-amid-escalating-tensions-kurdish/

IMPORTANT:
US special forces deploying west of Manbij as Turkish-backed terrorists clash with the SDF. 2 NATO members on opposing sides.

https://twitter.com/iraqisecurity/status/838059009630433282

Posted by: Lozion | Mar 4, 2017 2:07:37 PM | 20

Wow. The PEDO shills are out in force this morning. Every one of the Deep State dissemblers on this site are PEDO criminals and enablers. Your team is going down. Hard. Fast. Make sure you and your rat-faced offspring are at the front of the battle line. Cuz this CIVIL WAR is coming fer ya. Tick-tock mofos.

Posted by: Take Me | Mar 4, 2017 2:08:14 PM | 21

Looks like the 'Obama Drama' script just kicked up a notch or three

"In essence, Barack Obama is engaged in clear acts of sedition and is attempting to overthrow the legitimate government of the United States. As I’ve stated before, the only way Trump is going to be able to stop this is to start making arrests across the so-called deep state and start charging these traitors with sedition or treason, as appropriate."

"There’s a much bigger scandal here: We have a prior administration. Barack Obama and his surrogates, who are supporting Hillary Clinton and her party, the Democratic Party. Who were using the… intelligence activities to surveil members of the Trump campaign, and to put that information out in the public. Those are police state tactics. Nothing Flynn or Sessions has done is even in the same category as that."

водыgate II the gift that keeps on giving

source - http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-03-04-way-beyond-watergate-obama-bugged-trump-tower.html

Posted by: ALberto | Mar 4, 2017 2:10:09 PM | 22

@9 Noirette, tes pronostics sur les résultats? How do you see it playing out?

Posted by: Lozion | Mar 4, 2017 2:10:45 PM | 23

Addendum to HW @ #18.

It took Malaysia several days to announce the VX-like substance 'news'. That's too slow to be credible and smacks of consultation (or con$ultation). They knew when KI Nam was taken to hospital that his face was the site of the attack and that his speedy demise suggested that a powerful toxin was involved.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 4, 2017 2:15:42 PM | 24

Posted by: PavewayIV | Mar 4, 2017 2:05:08 PM | 19

Thanks. I think you're right, on both counts.
That's what CJ was insinuating.
And it should have been obvious...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 4, 2017 2:28:16 PM | 25

@number two: what is the usual number of an administration to have contact with a Russian ambassador? Is five a lot, average, or very low?

Posted by: Rex | Mar 4, 2017 2:34:43 PM | 26

@16

Look, if you're genuine, I feel your pain. I know what it's like to lose faith in the latest messiah, but Trump deserves every word I write. It's not that I detest only Trump. I detest the system that spawned him and others who surround him and preceded him. I only wish Obama suffered a downfall, because the problem here is the entire system. Only those who recognize that both sides are one coin with a different figurehead representing all that is corrupt, only those who are trying to stop the cycle of fleecing with a new messiah every 4 years are honest.

You probably think that because Trump hasn't technically started a war yet, although, he's escalating in Yemen, he deserves to be saved. Well NO. Trump is corrupt. He's a liar. His policies stink and benefit the corrupt rich like himself. He's more of the same packaged with Republican wrapping. What a price to pay for temporary relief from war with the inevitable, eventual MIC servitude for war still and always present under a different banner. Don't make Trump the temporary, corrupt fix for the widespread problem that will linger through his Presidency and beyond if we don't grab this opportunity to take it ALL down.

I'm hoping Trump is the Samson Option. I'm hoping the whole system crashes with him, but I can't stop calling it as I see it; I can't stop my gut feeling. If Trump triggers Civil War; then that's the necessary karma. I don't know how the Empire can be stopped for good; but I do know Trump is not the answer; since he's as corrupt as the entire system. At best, he's the catalyst, but he's not the people's savior, he has Rupert Murdoch on his side! Come on...already. He's not the solution; although he may be the catalyst that leads to a more reliable, permanent solution; he's the system. Don't ask me not to expose him as more of the same. Ideally, people should rise up against the entire system including Trump as in revolution, but if Trump triggers civil war and that's what permanently halts the Empire, so be it. I trust the former option more where everyone recognizes what's really wrong here and fights that instead of each other; but I fear Trump might bring on the 2nd option; civil war, and he's not worth it. It would be a massive tragedy to fight over Trump and there's still the risk that people come out of it bloodied with the truth still hidden; that neither side was worth defending and that both sides deserve to fall. There's no one side is right here. Trump is just a continuation of the same corruption Obama continued from Bush. It has to end; but not in civil war. I hope instead people wise up and see that the enemy is with both sides including Trump and fight the entire system together. Therein lies the only solution worth fighting for.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 4, 2017 2:36:11 PM | 27

Sometimes reading MoA is like listening to the proverbial blind men describing an elephant. Each one touching a different part.

Circe is the blind man with his hand up the elephant's ass.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 4, 2017 2:43:38 PM | 28

Posted by: Circe | Mar 4, 2017 2:36:11 PM | 27

If you could be bothered reading, and reflecting on, the reams of mawkish drivel you post here, you'd realise that it's straight out of the Hasbara Handbook chapter "How to De-humanise Palestinians".

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 4, 2017 3:00:40 PM | 29

"Circe is the blind man with his hand up the elephant's ass."
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 4, 2017 2:43:38 PM | 28

Funniest line I've read in months!

Posted by: Activist Potato | Mar 4, 2017 3:29:25 PM | 30

Quoting Jack Rabbit: "Sometimes reading MoA is like listening to the proverbial blind men describing an elephant. Each one touching a different part."

If you change sometimes to 'often' or maybe 'generally' then JR hit it out of the park! Sadly, today is no exception to the general trend.

Posted by: c d toro | Mar 4, 2017 3:34:33 PM | 31

I agree that @circe needs to stop just making leftist sounding ad hominem attacks about Trump being corrupt or continuing with war. I don't see him stopping the Houthis from embarrassing the Saudis and he seems to be letting ISIS get crushed. Trump seemed to let go of Flynn because Flynn "put Iran on notice". Circe might be right but he's not saying anything to convince anybody. He also doesn't seem to know what he wants. In the same sentence he says a civil war would be good to bring down the whole system and then says "but Trump isn't worth it".

So what does that even mean? The American people simply cannot allow an elected president to be taken down by the deep state AGAIN, especially when it's because he apparently doesn't want war with Russia.


Posted by: Truthorwhat | Mar 4, 2017 3:35:02 PM | 32


they get burned once, so they have to go back for more. the sorrows of Empire. The US could end this terrible war and humanitarian disaster in a week by deny the saudis their jet fuel, bombs, targeting info and many sorts of joint cooperation. it's all a great war crime; and the obama administration was warned by its own legals about culpability of the US in the war crimes of the vicious and vacuous saudis

http://news.antiwar.com/2017/03/03/pentagon-deploying-more-special-forces-around-yemen-north-africa/


Pentagon Deploying More Special Forces Around Yemen, North Africa
Officials Expect Newly Deployed Troops to 'See a Lot of Action'


ABC News is reporting tonight that the Pentagon has been quietly deploying special forces units across the Middle East, particularly in Yemen, and in several nations around Northern Africa, moves seen as a prelude to an escalation in attacks on al-Qaeda and ISIS-linked forces across the region.

Officials say that there is a sense that the Trump Administration is more interested in using special operations’ forces, and that they are particularly interested in attacking al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) targets in Yemen, saying the lack of a functioning government in Yemen justifies more US operations......

Posted by: michaelj72 | Mar 4, 2017 3:45:17 PM | 33

@28

And you're the blind man fellating it thinking it's a sacred cow's tit.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 4, 2017 3:47:27 PM | 34

@ Circe | Mar 4, 2017 2:36:11 PM | 27

/~~~~~~~~~~
Look [blues], if you're genuine, I feel your pain. I know what it's like to lose faith in the latest messiah, but Trump deserves every word I write. It's not that I detest only Trump. I detest the system that spawned him and others who surround him and preceded him.
\~~~~~~~~~~
-- Circe

Alright this is FUCKING BULLSHIT. Trump never got anywhere near being my messiah, dipshit. What the hell is the matter with you? Are you attacking Trump, the so-called "Republicans", the Russians, what? Stop lying about my very well documented opinions, liar! Stop misrepresenting me! You are such a full-of-it clown trying to bring me down.

THE TRUTH is this: I am against "both" of the two-party. I want the political "scientists" to be discredited and get jobs flipping burgers. I want the only two-party busting election system that exists to be implemented: strategic hedge simple score voting.

You can take your lying Dems (and Repugs) and shove them up where the sun don't shine!

Stop lying about my stand!

Posted by: blues | Mar 4, 2017 3:47:28 PM | 35

Picked up Rahm Emmanuel and Obama hitch hiking near Byron Bay (Australia) in the early 198o's . I never forget how upset they got when I started banging on about the ' U S and Vietnam ' . For all his faults I have no doubt Obama has a conscience - I did not know of his mum's involvement with the C I A till recent years .

Posted by: ashley albanese | Mar 4, 2017 3:48:31 PM | 36

@25 Hoarsewhisperer.. ditto..

Posted by: james | Mar 4, 2017 3:55:19 PM | 37

Circe, why dont you leave? Everybody here has enough of your discourse full of ad hominem attacks and constant trolling. Try debkafile maybe?

Posted by: Lozion | Mar 4, 2017 3:57:39 PM | 38

@33

that they [Trump admin] are particularly interested in attacking al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) targets in Yemen, saying the lack of a functioning government in Yemen justifies more US operations......

That's because nothing has changed. Yemen, an impoverished country on the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe, is easy prey for the Empire led by the latest figurehead, Trump. A stone's throw from Iran. AQ is just an excuse for violating sovereignty and killing and greasing the MIC machinery like ISIS is an excuse in Syria. Trump, same shit; different day.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 4, 2017 4:00:32 PM | 39

@38

You and your ilk attack everything I write with PERSONAL ad homs. Trump is fair game for any and all criticism. Don't lay your a.h. m.o. on me!

Oh, and btw, you and a few echoes aren't everyone around here. Go bully someone else with your fascist muzzle.

@35

Got it. Glad you're not for the two-party monopoly with its dictator/messiah in chief. Have another beer on me; on second thought, make that sparkling water; your tone could use some watering down.

@32

I agree that @circe needs to stop just making leftist sounding ad hominem attacks about Trump being corrupt

Oh, so now being a leftist or sounding leftist is verboten here. You mean this room is reserved for right-wing only? News to me!

Poor baby-man Trump; my attacks on him are too much; he's so fragile. Or is the inconvenient truth what really pisses off the shrieking echoes?

Posted by: Circe | Mar 4, 2017 4:20:16 PM | 40

@ michaelj72 | 33

Officials say that there is a sense that the Trump Administration is more interested in using special operations’ forces, and that they are particularly interested in attacking al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) targets in Yemen

Why I have a feeling those US special forces will be leading the fight against Houthis and "Iranian influence" instead? Whats more, they'll probably do it together with Al Qaeda. They will simply rename them to YDF (Yemen's Democratic Forces) or similar.

Posted by: Harry | Mar 4, 2017 4:23:22 PM | 41

More lefties would be good

Posted by: paul | Mar 4, 2017 4:25:02 PM | 42

@ Circe | Mar 4, 2017 4:20:16 PM | 40

/~~~~~~~~~~
[blues;] Got it. Glad you're not for the two-party monopoly with its dictator/messiah in chief. Have another beer on me; on second thought, make that sparkling water; your tone could use some watering down.
\~~~~~~~~~~
-- Response to blues | Mar 4, 2017 3:47:28 PM | 35

Very sophisticated Agency psy-op response, I would say!

Posted by: blues | Mar 4, 2017 4:32:13 PM | 43

It's almost funny to see people try to reason with Circe.

Circe's on a mission. He doesn't have an open mind.

Circe is not left or right. He's a 'Never Trump' hater. Everyone can decide for themselves why that is so but I'm inclined to agree with HW's hasbara suggestion.

Please everyone: stop feeding the troll!

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 4, 2017 4:48:41 PM | 44

Paveway IV 19
Good call. It reminds me of a comic about Ukraine with the two sides facing off behind sand bags with both of them saying "our oligarchs are better than yours."
One place I've found insights from Russia is the Russian Newspaper series with Professor Filip Kovacevic over at newsbud on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qygsOlGJViU&list=PLfNq37CZ4pGGKwg7QNKQpBE3njftdTbJj

My take on Trump is he's a slightly less bad Republican. Time will tell how much of the neocon agenda he'll take on. He seems resistant for now. Yes, he's a good buddy of Wall Street/lobbyists which is why they donated 25x more to Hillary's campaign. And he's a buddy of Israel but at least made a mention of settlements. But he has backtracked on a number of things including Russia. The media has the obsession for now but where were they during Obama?

Posted by: Curtis | Mar 4, 2017 4:56:02 PM | 45

Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said
"Is it the rock bottom, which the Western media hit," she asked, "or is there still somewhere to go?"

"I will reveal a military secret: diplomats are working, and their work consists of making contacts in the host nation."

Posted by: harrylawh | Mar 4, 2017 5:04:42 PM | 46

[blues;] Got it. Glad you're not for the two-party monopoly with its dictator/messiah in chief. Have another beer on me; on second thought, make that sparkling water; your tone could use some watering down.

So now a Christian President is called a 'Messiah'? Wow! Who knew? And the condescension in the last part of the comment is beneath even the one who made it.

Posted by: h | Mar 4, 2017 5:10:59 PM | 47

@ Jackrabbit | Mar 4, 2017 4:48:41 PM | 44

I assume "HW" references Hoarsewhisperer. I am so tired of all the acronyms and initialisms.

Sometimes I say to myself "never let a good troll go to waste". Other times, I realize it's just a circling-the-drain maneuver.

I must say I've gotten a fair amount of free mileage out of this one.

Holly Golightly & The Greenhornes - There Is An End
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfhSqcn5K2Y

Posted by: blues | Mar 4, 2017 5:26:53 PM | 48

So far, there is not the slightest bit of evidence for the alleged wire-tapping.

As long as that's the case, the most convincing explanation seems that T. made it all up in order to divert attention from the various scandals surrounding his camp. Like 'last night in Sweden'...

Meanwhile, the rest of the world looks on in bewilderment. America turns into a freak show, and China resumes the leadership role. Whatever you folks think of Trump - I hope you realize that nobody takes the US seriously any more.

Just please don't start a civil war.

Posted by: smuks | Mar 4, 2017 5:40:54 PM | 49

smuks 49
I wonder if the rest of the world sees each presidency getting worse each time a new one comes along. We like to make a big deal about the peaceful transfer of power. And yet we went from a hypocrite clearly in the hands of Wall Street and the neocons ... to Trump.
I keep seeing the mentions of Civil War with Trump as if the two are tied together. If anything, the gasoline has been poured on US divisions by race, party, etc long before Trump. It's just recently intensified. The only things I hope are not on the horizon are an economic collapse or a new war.

Posted by: Curtis | Mar 4, 2017 5:48:08 PM | 50

@18 Hoarse

Possible.
We'll never know for sure, and if there are no immediate effects, there won't be any later either.

What's more interesting is that there is zero talk about Churkin's death. Poor guy.

Looks like constant little cuts, trying to provoke an (over-)reaction...

Posted by: smuks | Mar 4, 2017 5:53:25 PM | 51

@Curtis 50

I fully agree that Trump 'didn't start the fire', esp. the racial and class divides.
But he's pouring a lot of gasoline onto it, and my big fear is that if societal tensions explode, he'll offer a scapegoat of some kind to the enraged: Muslims, Latinos, immigrants, transgender, Jews...whoever comes in handy.

The basic problem is ever increasing inequality - and it's the job of right-wing politicians to obscure this fact and redirect popular anger against some minority.

'Getting worse every time', I don't quite agree. Obama wasn't brilliant or anything, but he was miles better than GWB, both domestically and internationally.

Posted by: smuks | Mar 4, 2017 6:03:03 PM | 52

@Circe

STFU

I'm tired of your shits!

Posted by: OJS | Mar 4, 2017 6:10:09 PM | 53

OK!
Your attacks are getting tedious!

Goto: http://empireexposed.blogspot.com/

And read todays: "Washington and America Self-Implode at the Hands of a Treasonous, Obama Led Shadow Government" and fight about that! FCS - this place has become much like the US - an example of pathological stupidity! Instead of taking pot shots at each other - disagree. That is the seemly thing to do.

Posted by: rg the lg | Mar 4, 2017 6:14:48 PM | 54

Trump proposes huge hike in military and police spending (and huge austerity cuts to domestic services)
and
an article by Ralph Nader on the Trump speech
and much more topnotch stuff
on:

willyloman.wordpress.com

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 4, 2017 6:19:27 PM | 55

Noirette @9: Thanks for reminding me of the terrific Diana Johnstone piece!

Posted by: runaway robot | Mar 4, 2017 6:21:59 PM | 56

You are allowing yourselves to be distracted. The oligarchs are successfully telling you not only what to think, but what to think about.

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 4, 2017 6:22:31 PM | 57

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Republican_insider%3A_Trump_is_creating_Deep_State_2.0%2C_but_it_might_crash_the_economy/57148/0/38/38/Y/M.html

Mike Lofgren: "As a senior budget analyst Lofgren had access to a lot of information. And what he couldn’t fathom was the contradiction between the professed aims of the ‘war on terror’ — to fight al-Qaeda — and the government’s obsession with Iraq and the Gulf. The associated WMD mythology that circulated around the world to justify the Iraq War was among the most egregious instances of global ‘fake news’. And yet it was officially sanctioned.

“At the same time [as the Tora Bora operation] budget documents were coming across my desk — budget supplementals — that indicated this huge build up going on in the Persian Gulf, a thousand miles away from Afghanistan,” Lofgren told me. “And that’s what made me realize there’s something seriously wrong. And Congress more or less sleepwalked right into it. If they weren’t cheerleading themselves, I saw the evidence. I had a security clearance. The WMD case wasn’t convincing to me. But somehow it convinced them.”

Lofgren saw first-hand that there were forces of influence “in the state and outside the CIA that push these things to fruition regardless of the evidence.”

Posted by: Penelope | Mar 4, 2017 6:29:19 PM | 58

The jack asses who don't want to read what Circe writes would be wise to skip past Circe's comments instead of polluting the thread with their boring and repetitive bulldust.
As for the hasbara claim, people who live in glass houses. Surely the incessant labelling of anyone who expresses an opinion which a poster disagrees with as 'must be hasbara' only serves to help the zionist shitbags because pretty soon everyone will be alleged to be a hasbara operative - meaning no one will be considered one, not even those with zionist ideology.
In other words there is more justification for suspecting someone who repeatedly hangs the hasbara label on supposition, without any evidence to back it up as being an hasbara operative, than there is for questioning the initial target. You mob all huddled down on the south eastern seaboard with yer toes barely in the water of Oz, not committing to Australia unless it is all comfy, who wouldn't know indigenous culture unless it is safely packaged for ya, call that a boomerang don't you hoarsewhisperer?
If I'm pissed and getting ad hominem it is because of the way the gang of trumpeters in denial have jumped on a bloke in a gang tackle simply because he/she expresses an opinion that makes them uncomfortable.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Mar 4, 2017 6:30:25 PM | 59

The comments on this site are 40% low-energy hasbara shilling. And 40% high-energy hasbara shilling. The rest is a mix. At one time it was closer to 50-50. As always. Jews ruined b's hood. Goyim -- particularly WASPs -- DO NOT hang with heebs at temple.

Posted by: Take Me | Mar 4, 2017 6:45:44 PM | 60

@ Debsisdead | Mar 4, 2017 6:30:25 PM | 59

So we are obligated to hear the very same Circe message again and again, like Groundhog Day #1294 again and again. Because this "truth" must come out.

It probably is from Hasbara (or hasbara), come to mention it. Another Agency "asset".

Posted by: blues | Mar 4, 2017 6:46:10 PM | 61

It's almost funny to see people try to reason with Circe.
Circe's on a mission. He doesn't have an open mind.
...
Please everyone: stop feeding the troll!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 4, 2017 4:48:41 PM | 44

Yes! A timely reminder of b's easily-forgotten Golden Rule.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 4, 2017 6:51:21 PM | 62

@ Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 4, 2017 6:51:21 PM | 62

Now the Curse is an assured Hasbara troll.

No more soup for you!

Over and Out!

Posted by: blues | Mar 4, 2017 6:58:35 PM | 63

interesting paper at the archive.org site that i associate with guest 77, Democracy, Dependency, and Destabilization: The Shaking of Allende's Regime. allende is the in-depth example but 'destabilization' is what its about, from my perspective.

and what the usa is / has been about for sooooo long. nothing positive to contribute. bringing about the worst of all possible worlds in order to bring about 'the best of all possible worlds'. that's us. right up to the last nanosecond.

perhaps the worst of all possible worlds - for the rest of us - is the actual goal of those intently bringing it about?

Posted by: jfl | Mar 4, 2017 7:11:19 PM | 64

What is known is that a soft coup is underway led by corporate media and intelligence community leaks against Donald Trump. The Huffington Post’s headline today reads “Unglued”. NSA leaks led to the firing of Michael Flynn. The Democratic Party is red-baiting the Administration for collusion with Russia and therefore opposes détente. The Trump $54 billion increase in the military spending paid for by cuts in State Department and domestic spending including science and environmental protection is crazy. But, it can be reversed in the next election. However, the restart of the Cold War, once again, makes a nuclear exchange with Russia possible either by a mistake or horrible miscalculation. There is no coming back from a human extinction event.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Mar 4, 2017 7:12:16 PM | 65

@blues 61

Actually Circe's posts are much less repetitive than those attacking him/ her.

If you think he's a troll, ignore him.
But like Debsisdead, I get the impression certain opinions make some people uncomfortable in their denial zone. At some point, everybody must ask him- and herself some hard questions.

Posted by: smuks | Mar 4, 2017 7:12:24 PM | 66

Actually Circe's posts are 99% repetitive and those attacking them are mostly very recent. Hard questions are asked here every day.

If Debisdead and smuks want to complain, you should just stop reading the rest of us.

We have had enough!

Posted by: blues | Mar 4, 2017 7:26:56 PM | 67

@66 Repetitive and boring is easy to ignore. I think what irks people is being called Trump lovers just because they happen to agree with some of his agenda. Most people here are taking a wait and see approach.

Posted by: dh | Mar 4, 2017 7:27:36 PM | 68

Curtis 50 "The only things I hope are not on the horizon are an economic collapse or a new war."

Are there any other options for the US? To stave off economic collapse US must maintain control and maintain a monopoly of the world reserve currency. This requires military muscle - war, threat of war - alongside other measures. The reason why Trump is building up what is already the world largest military?
An economic collapse + domestic upheaval for the US seems the best option for the rest of the world.

Posted by: Peter AU | Mar 4, 2017 7:31:23 PM | 69

Posted by: Debsisdead | Mar 4, 2017 6:30:25 PM | 59

Nice try, but it's Hasbara,
which, by definition, is the selective re-interpretation of observed behaviour in the worst possible light and using unchallenged 'conclusions' as Historical 'evidence' of character flaws to justify further erroneous interpretations.
It only worked with Palestinians because the MSM suppressed their point of view.
The Walled Off Hotel in Gaza is changing that.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 4, 2017 7:33:53 PM | 70

And how many met with Israeli officiels?
number 4
this is not an israeli matter bringing up innocent parties that are just trying too survive and stop another jewish genocide.

russia and iran spies and bribes should be the heart of the matter.
let israel be eye say

Posted by: menchem -golani | Mar 4, 2017 7:47:39 PM | 71

@70 Banksy's hotel is in Bethlehem. It seems to be getting some media attention.

Posted by: dh | Mar 4, 2017 7:47:45 PM | 72

@67
I didn't know you were several. Blue-S - plural s, I should've realized. Stupid me. ;-)

@68
Well, but they 'see' only what they want to see and disregard the rest, la-la-la...
And if someone only accepts certain realities and listens to certain bits of what T. says, this does look like blind belief. Not necessarily love, ok.

nb - it's easy to agree with 'some of his agenda', because he contradicts himself all the time.
When he says he wants to improve the lives of average Americans, of course I agree - unfortunately, his policies of deregulation and tax cuts for the rich point in the opposite direction (cf. Reaganomics). Also, rebuilding America's industry and infrastructure is a good idea - but by focusing on coal, oil and other 19th/20th century industries, he'll make sure the US falls even further behind.

That said, I really hate this kind of discussions. I'm not here to get into personal quarrels, but to learn stuff and exchange views with people I wouldn't meet otherwise.

Posted by: smuks | Mar 4, 2017 7:52:21 PM | 73

@73 Me too. These discussions don't help at all. However.....much as I like the way Trump is going after the MSM I hope he has some energy left for swamp-draining.

Posted by: dh | Mar 4, 2017 7:58:09 PM | 74

@Peter AU 69

"An economic collapse + domestic upheaval for the US seems the best option for the rest of the world."

Not really. The US is far too big and powerful, both militarily and economically, for this to not severely affect the rest of the world. We'd have a global crisis of epic proportions, probably war.

Instead, we should cooperate to rebuild the US (and the UK), i.e. modernize its economy and infrastructure to be socially and ecologically sustainable. Alongside that, a new global currency regime will certainly evolve, through cooperation of the major central banks + IMF. It's hard work, but feasible - but only if Americans want it and are willing to compromise.

Posted by: smuks | Mar 4, 2017 8:05:32 PM | 75

With regard to Russia: Trump is a traitor.
With regard to military spending: Trump is a traitor.
With regard to 'regime change': Trump is a traitor.
Most Moa-posters are too blind to see.

Posted by: From The Hague | Mar 4, 2017 8:33:56 PM | 76

#9
Love your style... Noirette.
The four 'Dalton' of French politics: Fillon, Macron, Hamon and Mélenchon. Cld it be a magic, Le Pen?... reinvented for the occasion as the French 'LittleBigMan' (raised by the tribe) able to cross out any invalid boxes (mentions inutiles)... or all of the above.
Re deep civil agitation in USA, cld you please translate this one: '... la dernière rechute d'Adam... en rangs donnés sur ses skis de fonte...'. Obviously before any general meltdown.

Posted by: kpax | Mar 4, 2017 8:45:34 PM | 77

Seems to me Trump is just tying the media up in their own fishnet, except that the MSM will never have his balls or sense of humor. Of course they're going to spin it around over lack of evidence, of course they will spend $$$$ on airtime and expert witnesses to declare the impossibility of obtaining a FISA warrant therefore it's impossible to set up a wiretap. C'mon, you expect O'bama to play by the rules?

But it also looks like efficient assymetrical warfare. Trump sends out one tweet and it ties everyone's mind up in a knot for a good 24 hours. That's how he won the election. You think feeding trolls keeps them alive? Trump is the übertroll, fer Pete's sake. A big fat troll. The feared clown you hate but can't stop laughing at his show. Brings the airline industry to a halt with the snap of a finger. Has dozens of companies bidding on his wall. The Terminator self-terminates. You have a problem with "Kellyanne Conway puts feet on Oval Office couch"? Think about Bill and Monica. Ew!

Kicks the MSM out of the White House. Who needs'em? As long as Twitter doesn't block him as they have his supporters, the circus rolls on. And the ad money rolls in. You think Little Marco would command half the tizzy floating around Don Trumpino? But I digress...

No evidence presented, eh? No one had any evidence as to Russia hacking the election, although they keep repeating it as if the truth would somehow hatch like an ostrich egg. Now they're invoking Watergate, of all things. G. Gordon Liddy must be in stitches.

So Frau Merkel is coming to meet the Don Trumpino and what fun they'll have comparing notes on how they've been wiretapped by the USIC.

Meanwhile, the Donbass nationalizes coal and steel plants, accepts the ruble as currency, and Russia recognizes Novorussian passports. That was easy.

Posted by: stumpy | Mar 4, 2017 9:03:12 PM | 78

Debsisdead @59:

The jack asses who don't want to read what Circe writes would be wise to skip past Circe's comments instead of polluting the thread ...
Circe's point of view is already well represented in MSM - as VietnamVet points out @65:"... a soft coup is underway led by corporate media and intelligence community leaks ...". That's why the "jack asses" here believe that Circe is the one "polluting the thread".

Isn't Circe "polluting" @13 when he says:

Trump looks like the white girl who falsely cries rape against the black guy ...

.. don't look at Trump who may have started the fire; look at the arsonist black guy, Obama ...

... the illiterate mass Trump is targeting in Appalachia and racist rednecks are lapping this up already and readying their pitch forks.

So anyone that disagrees with Circe and the establishment mob are illiterate racists? OK.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Mar 4, 2017 9:12:26 PM | 79

@78 Ah yes Donbass. I see Boris Johnson is on his way to Moscow to berate Putin. That should give the Russians a good laugh.

Posted by: dh | Mar 4, 2017 9:22:34 PM | 80

A marvelously subjective and vacuous piece by TIME ... very reminiscent of the shit that would be spewed out leading up to the ouster of various countries leaders such as: Chavez & Gaddafi & Allende, etc.

Chickens have come home to roost ...

Donald Trump: Facts, Fascism and Tyranny

Donald Trump and the New Dawn of Tyranny

... It is in this light that we should consider President Donald Trump and his closest advisors and spokespeople. Although they occupy the positions they do thanks to an election, there is little reason to believe that they support the American constitutional system as it stands, and much to remind us of authoritarian regimes changes of the recent past. A basic weapon of regime changers, as fascists realized nearly a century ago, is to destroy the concept of truth. Democracy requires the rule of law, the rule of law depends upon trust, and trust depends upon citizens' acceptance of factuality. The president and his aides actively seek to destroy Americans' sense of reality ...

Would seem 'the Press' is having trouble grappling with & sustaining the previous sense of '(un)reality' ... even the discussion of possible rapprochement with the Evil Russkies is 'verboten', Treasonous!

Why ?

It was never an issue in the past for government representatives and fellow travellers ... what is threatened by such rapprochement to engender these remarkable responses ?

No doubt all will be well again, as spokesmen for the Atlantic Council, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the American Enterprise Institute, the Bilderberg Group & the Rockefeller family will form a new Committee on the Present Danger, call a press conference and have a series of patriotic, selfless nobility, explain to the sheeple why we should openly embrace FEAR of a 'regime' led by Demon-Head Putin.

Yep, a country with a defense budget, so massive, it is the same size as that of the mighty, UK! ;)

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 4, 2017 9:42:25 PM | 81

@ smuks | Mar 4, 2017 7:52:21 PM | 73

I was an honorary Black Panther. My nickname with them was "bluesneakers" (since I always wore blue denim deck shoes). One big schism was between the Black Muslims and the Black Activists (who smoked lots of pot). Yeah I was white. They didn't care. The whiteman was the cause of all the evil in the world. But I was not a whiteman; I was simply a white man.

So I truncated "bluesneakers" to "blues" as my nom de blog. You might have "the blues", but not "a blue". So "blues" can be singular.

I also study theoretical linguistics :-)

Posted by: blues | Mar 4, 2017 9:46:50 PM | 82

smuks 75 "Instead, we should cooperate to rebuild the US (and the UK), i.e. modernize its economy and infrastructure to be socially and ecologically sustainable"

There is a part of US general culture that has been around since the inception of the US as an independent state that requires change - constant expansion and exceptionalism is the best I can put it but does not adequately cover that part of the culture that requires change.
As far as I can see, that change will only come about through extreme hardship.

Collapse of the US will bring about major changes in the world and cause some hardship, but the alternatives are constant US hegemony, or nuke war.

A bit like getting off an addictive substance. Tough going for awhile.

Saying please and asking nicely, I don't think will change the US.

Posted by: Peter AU | Mar 4, 2017 11:14:54 PM | 83

I think I’m starting to get why Putin has been so chummy with Netanyahu lately. Putin is very nuanced in his planning and his actions; but his words leave no room for doubt. He’s a man on a mission. There is a kind of puritanical streak there wrought by a sense of Orthodox Christian moral conviction.

This contrasts with Trump's life-long depravity, but I do understand the significance of Trump in the larger scheme that Putin envisions, the long-range plan and the measured, unorthodox steps required to get there. I imagine that in the case of Netanyahu, Putin is patiently applying the saying: Keep your friends close; and your enemies closer.

In the case of Trump, I won’t try to presume what Putin is thinking, but just for the sake of hypothesis, he might be thinking: I have a trump in my hand; I can play it or not. It’s not indispensable, but for now it serves the long-range purpose; the greater end. Eventually I’ll be able to discard it, because I won’t need it any more. However, the risk is that Trump can also be used by the Deep State in the service of their ongoing twisted World Order, but for now he might still be in the hand Putin holds. I'm speculating.

I still however stand by my assessment of Trump. I believe it’s the correct one. I would have preferred an honourable leader to take us to the other side, however, it’s like I said: this corrupt system needs to crash and if Trump is the catalyst, so be it. This can’t stop me from voicing my aversion for the vehicle that takes us there. What is really hard for me to accept is how unfortunately Trump appears to be ironically the bridge between a status quo both domestic and global that is totally corrupt and unacceptable to a better world waiting on the other side. The problem is that the bridge is shaky and rotten and unreliable. There is also the problem of the injustice that many will suffer by tolerating Trump as the only vehicle available to undo the status quo and get to the other side. I’m having a really hard time accepting this.

I completely understand the evils of neoliberalism that got us here which itself is the potent doctrine used by the Zionist cabal. The problem is that Trump is also the product of the corruption that Zionism spawned. I cannot therefore help but be on the side of justice and the truth yet realizing that my position that is shared by many, perhaps, not many here, is used to manipulate and maintain the status quo and that my and others' aversion to Trump could be used to destroy the only vehicle available to collapse the system is maddening.

Should I look the other way on Trump on behalf of the system imploding? This is like someone telling me: we need another World War to make the world a better place, but we had two of them and it only made things worse. I still hold firm to my belief that we must make change happen by fighting the systematic corruption on both sides ourselves. Trump is not a reliable vehicle for us, the rest of the world or getting Russia, Iran, Yemen or any other target out of the Empire’s crosshairs.

I’ve always believed that Zionism is a significant part of the widespread corruption in Western countries and that’s the source that needs to be strongly opposed. Trump's close ties with Zionists also disqualify him as a reliable vehicle for change and ridding the system of corruption.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
@71 this is not an israeli matter bringing up innocent parties that are just trying too survive and stop another jewish genocide.

Innocent my ass. Zionists aren’t afraid of another Jewish genocide; they’re afraid of losing the power and influence they’ve amassed and wield. They should be very worried, since they’ve used that power to destroy so many countries, and people, sow chaos and corrupt democracy in Western nations for the gain of an entitled few abusing power.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 4, 2017 11:34:55 PM | 84

In the case of Trump, I won’t try to presume what Putin is thinking, but just for the sake of hypothesis, he might be thinking: I have a trump in my hand; I can play it or not. It’s not indispensable, but for now it serves the long-range purpose; the greater end. Eventually I’ll be able to discard it, because I won’t need it any more. However, the risk is that Trump can also be used by the Deep State in the service of their ongoing twisted World Order, but for now he might still be in the hand Putin holds. I'm speculating.

RAOTFLMFAO ! You've apparently overdosed on too much Guardian/CNN/BBC ...

"I have a Trump in my hand", thinks Evil™ Russky Demon-Head Putin. LOL.

You forget to project though, utilizing your astounding & remarkable powers of astral travelling/long-distance, mind-reading/telepathy, that Putin is secretly still an evil heathen Stalinist Communist and wishes to revive a Bolshevikian Internationale Revolutionary awakening, to create a Leninist-Trotskyist-Zionist-Frisbeetarian new world order hegemony, covertly funded by a pot of gold proffered by the 'little people' of Ireland, the Leprechauns!

... I cannot therefore help but be on the side of justice and the truth, yet realizing that my position that is shared by many, perhaps, not many here, is used to manipulate and maintain the status quo and that my and others' aversion to Trump could be used to destroy the only vehicle available to collapse the system is maddening.

LOL ! Did you lift that from a Superman comic ?

Nah sorceress, preferred it when you just filled threads with endless posts packed to overflowing with an overabundance of the following keywords:

'zionist, trump, putin, Machiavellian, trump, putin, zionist, evil plans, putin, zionist, trump, zionist cabal, trump, putin, zionist, zionist new world order, putin, trump, zionist, putin, trump, putin, trump, zionist conspiracy ...'.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 5, 2017 12:22:25 AM | 85

"As the Trump administration continues to be bedevilled by a drip-drip of revelations about ties to Russian officials during and after last year's election, the president has seemingly settled on the identity of the malevolent figure behind the turmoil."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39168149

Posted by: ninel | Mar 5, 2017 12:26:28 AM | 86

@9 noirette

any thoughts on Google is Directing the French Election Campaign?


Since February 28, 2017, Google News Lab and the European Journalism Center (EJC) have coordinated French and foreign companies for the duration of the French presidential election campaign.

Companies that have reached an agreement with Google News Lab and the European Journalism Center (EJC) for the duration of the French presidential campaign are:

AFP,
Bellingcat,
Bloomberg,
Buzz Feed News,
Journalist Training Center,
Center France,
Channel 4,
Sciences Po School of Journalism,
Euractiv,
Euronews,
Explicite,
Facebook,
Factoscope,
France24-Les Observateurs,
FranceTelevision,
Global Voices,
International Business Times,
L’Express,
La Provence,
La Voix du Nord,
L’Avenir,
LCI,
Liberation,
London School of Economics,
Mashable-France 24, Meedan,
Nice-Matin,
West-France,
Street 89,
StoryFul,
Street Press,
South-West.


https://www.google.co.th/search?q=google+news+lab&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=mqW7WPHYFoin6AStiZHICQ

Posted by: jfl | Mar 5, 2017 12:45:54 AM | 87

Circe at 84: "... how unfortunately Trump appears to be ironically the bridge between a status quo both domestic and global that is totally corrupt and unacceptable to a better world waiting on the other side."

I don't see this at all. There is no other side, unless people generally want to rise up and get it. We need to elect hundreds of Bernie Sanders and Jill Steins. There's no way anyone can say the US people are close to that. Certainly the recent performance by the 'official left' has been extremely depressing, with their seemingly swallowing whole the CIA/RussiaParanoia line on Trump

But part of your point is correct, that Trump and opposition to Trump is introducing chaos and pessimism into the US social/political system, which weakens the US. That is a good thing for anti-imperialist peoples and nations and those fighting for a multi-polar rather than unipolar world.

It will be far far from perfect, but the multi-polar world will be better than the current one. But nearly all the poles in that new world will be neoliberal and corporate globalist to some extent (most of the multi-polar future's 'leaders/exploiters' are grads or students at elite US/UK colleges). Just not as bad as now.

Posted by: fairleft | Mar 5, 2017 12:49:16 AM | 88

@75 smuks.. i didn't realize how optimistic you are on the banking system! i agree strongly with @69/83 peter au.. i can't see any other way out.. the financial ponzi scheme - with the imf an important feature - are completely immoral and un-redeemable.. sorry to burst this bubble if indeed you have faith in the 'rightness' of the present financial pyramid /ponzi system..

Posted by: james | Mar 5, 2017 12:58:12 AM | 89

Sooo, looks like there is a collab between Russia/Syria/US/Kurds cockblocking Turkey's hard-on for more Syrian land.
Interesting twist in development. Lets watch Erdo's reaction in the next few days. Meanwhile, away from Msm fake news political circus in DC, in the field the results talk for themselves..


Posted by: Lozion | Mar 5, 2017 1:27:39 AM | 90

Circe@13

You seem obsessed with Trump and provide attacks against Trump that are straight out of the Saul Alinsky playbook:
http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm


Or perhaps the other leftist propaganda channels:
https://mediamatters.org/
https://americanbridgepac.org/
http://www.citizensforethics.org/
http://shareblue.com/

I suggest that you read the original Wizard of Oz or the videos of George Carlin (especially on voting). Trump is just a figurehead for one wing of the deep state as HILLARY WAS FOR THE OTHER WING. Besides, if he didn't exist he would have had to be invented. See the book "War and Peace" on why the French went to war against Russia (and lost badly).

Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 5, 2017 1:29:03 AM | 91

@84 -- Putin's usage of Trump is a wild card -- Trump's main role here is probably to kick at the keystone in hopes of setting off a re-settling of the fault lines. As you say, Trump's a flawed catalyst at best. The US opposition is so bent on unseating him that the possibility of capsize is real.

The Zionist angle is tricky -- the "Other side" you speak of, should that not include some resolution of Israel? The Christian world probably regards Israel as the better custodian of the Holy Land than the Arabs, thus the leverage. Would the Orthodox Church fall in line with Rome on this?

Using ISIS as the grinder to wander around the ME with a mission to degrade and diminish the anti-Western tribes is like harnessing a tornado to harvest your wheat. Where Putin and Trump vector into the equation could jeopardize the steering forces and be the real threat to Israel, which presumably has foreseen this and has a plan for it. My theory may be no better than theirs. Nevertheless, I am not sure that we can count the Jewish diaspora in or out. It takes some callousness to sit halfway around the world if Israel is attacked as you tell yourself it is for the greater good and cements the sympathy of the world into your pedestal. Before it gets to that point, do you think that some might lose their nerve and cave in to negotiation? I would guess not. But following your logic, the nature of the liberal reaction around the world, and the rightwing surge, makes more sense. The Steering went off course, promises made were broken, the bishops and knights failed to secure the board and now the rooks and queen must jump in to fix it, or they don't get their bonus. Pitchforks, heh. Consider the potential divisions in the military when the cognitive dissonance is screaming loud. Plenty of good old boys in the front line. At West Point, too.

Posted by: stumpy | Mar 5, 2017 1:49:16 AM | 92

Lozion 89

Pat Lang at SST says there is co-operation between US and Russian military in Syria now, which adds up with what is happening between Al Bab and Manbij.
On the other side, according to DOD website, US is still hitting Syrian infrastructure - oil well heads ect - in Deir Ezzor province rather than ISIS, yet in Raqqa province US is hitting ISIS positions. I guess they still consider Raqqa province their's (as in Rand report) and don't want to destroy too much stuff.

Posted by: Peter AU | Mar 5, 2017 1:50:01 AM | 93

@blues 61

Actually Circe's posts are much less repetitive than those attacking him/ her.

If you think he's a troll, ignore him.
But like Debsisdead, I get the impression certain opinions make some people uncomfortable in their denial zone. At some point, everybody must ask him- and herself some hard questions.

Posted by: smuks | Mar 4, 2017 7:12:24 PM | 66


Well said. The whole jump on the one person voicing a different sort of o
pinion on here all at once is so cringe inducing I had trouble reading this whole thread. Never used to think of MoA as a particularly left or right leaning website but goddamn.

Posted by: FecklessLeft | Mar 5, 2017 1:51:22 AM | 94

@87

The Left need to face up to the fact that the Democratic Party does not represent their best interests. The Democratic Party is in disarray and deservedly so after Obama and Clinton. Imagine picking Chuck Schumer, a Zionist shill, as Senate Minority Leader? He's like the new replacement for Joe Lieberman. How stupid is that! Then they pick a Clintonite to Chair the Party, and a 72-year old former governor of Kentucky to respond to Trump's speech to Congress. The Party is self-destructing.

There needs to be a new party condemning the Neoliberalism of Obama and Clinton that pervades the Democratic Party.

@90

Trump is just a figurehead for one wing of the deep state as HILLARY WAS FOR THE OTHER WING.

This is what I've been writing all along see my 27 comment. People seem to think that if Hillary won I would be less critical of her. Not a chance! I was anything but her up to the last minute before the results.

@59 Nailed it again.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is my second response to b's short comment on the wiretapping issue.

Regarding Trump's wiretapping allegation. Let's not forget that it's uber-rabid Zionist, Mark Levin, who planted this suspicion in Trump's head. One has to scrutinize the source of this allegation and his motives for doing so. Mark Levin called the U.N., that has been totally spineless on Israel, an Israel-hater. He accused Obama, who abstained from only one Resolution condemning Israel during his entire Presidency as having stabbed Israel in the back and face, he called Kerry outrageous and deceitful for his speech mildly criticizing Israel and even called Zionist Jon Stewart's criticism of Israel's assault on Gaza putrid and pro-Hamas.

Mark Levin is an Israel Firster providing cover for Trump with this wiretapping allegation. In 2014 Mark Levin called Obama weak on Russia, equating him to Chamberlain, and called Putin a fascist and KGB thug; who's interested in expanding Russia's power.

Watch his 2014 rant on Fox News.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3691612477001/?#sp=show-clips

So why is this rabid Zionist shill and Israel gatekeeper protecting Trump with this wiretapping deflection???

I'm sure it's clear whose bidding Trump is serving.

Oh, and to my haters: I'm aa much a hasbara troll as Trump is a Manchurian candidate for radical Islam.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5, 2017 2:38:25 AM | 96

aa much should be as much a .....

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5, 2017 2:43:29 AM | 97

Oh and one more thing: It's no surprise that Mark Levin defends Bannon so passionately against accusations of anti-Semitism and vice-versa no surprise Levin gets an award from Breitbart at CPAC. And now these Zionist mouthpieces are teaming up in an effort to save Trump's ass with this wiretapping deflection.

I was right about Trump from day one.

Posted by: Circe | Mar 5, 2017 2:59:52 AM | 98

Corrections for Noirette on Fr prez el: lr is new name not of upr but of rpr then ump
Valls not min of fin but prime min
Macron was finmin
Hamon not Corbyn type rather was used by hollande to counter valls ambition and serves macron ones in the end
Macron is supported by the deep fr state aka french media/banks corpo from day 1

Posted by: Mina | Mar 5, 2017 4:56:43 AM | 99

For some it took 8 years before they understood that Obama is a traitor.
It seems for some it also will take a long time before they admit that Trump ia a traitor.
(at least in his foreign policy, and that's what matters most)

Posted by: From The Hague | Mar 5, 2017 5:41:30 AM | 100

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