February 05, 2017
Russia, Ukraine - Neocon Ceasefire Sabotage Fails To Change Trump's Mind
There are serious signs that the Trump administration will continue to seek better relations with Russia. It declines to get involved in the hustling in Ukraine. It is ready to give up on the catastrophic regime-change agenda the neocons implemented in Kiev with the help of Ukrainian Nazi organizations.
Let us recap. On New Year the neo-conservative Senators McCain and Graham were in Ukraine to fire up Ukrainian troops at the front lines for a new fight with Russia supported rebels in Donetsk and Lugansk. A few days later then Vice President Biden also dropped in on Kiev. The three are declared enemies of Trump's more friendly position towards Russia. They obviously intended to reignite the conflict in Ukraine to sabotage Trump's new foreign policy.
The former Georgian President Saakashvilli has once fallen for the Bush administration's incitement and attacked Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia. When that war went badly he received none of the hoped for backup from Washington and NATO.
Poroshenko should have learned from that. Instead he fell for the incitement and assurances from the senators and restarted the war with the separatist. Multiple news outlets and even Ukrainian generals first admitted that it was the Kiev government that started the current round of fighting by "creeping" into the no-man's zone that was supposed to separate the belligerents. But as usual the "western" media now try to change history and to put the guilt on Russia. They press for a U.S. "response" to the "Russian aggression".
At first it looked that this impressed the Trump administration. The new U.S. ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley held a speech that might have been written by her "wailing banshee" predecessor Samantha Powers. It condemned Russia for about everything and promised that sanctions on Russia would stay. But two days later she visited the Russian UN ambassador Churkin in his private home in New York city to make nice. The speech was probably just a head-fake or some uncoordinated screw-up.
The Ukrainian President Poroshenko had tried for several days to get a phonecall scheduled with President Trump. But on Thursday Trump met, very shortly though, Poroshenko's opposition in Ukraine Yuliya Tymoshenko. She is a former prime minister and - said mildly- a controversial figure: always scheming, lying and ready to be offered and take huge bribes. But with some help she could probably win an election in Ukraine should Poroshenko step down.
Only on Saturday Trump finally had a phonecall with Poroshenko. The very short readout is a blast. It speaks of "Ukraine's long-running conflict with Russia" and adds:
"We will work with Ukraine, Russia, and all other parties involved to help them restore peace along the border," said President Trump.
Ukraine's conflict is not with Russia and the fighting is not along the border. It is a genuine civil war, ignited by a U.S. regime change operation in Kiev, in witch both side have external support. That Trump does not describes it that way leaves lots of room for interpretation. Is there a new "Russian border" along the current line of the ceasefire? What about the Minsk2 process which Ukraine has failed to implement? What about sanctions?
But the most important points: There is no mention of weapon or other support for Kiev. There is no blame on Russia for the renewed violence at the front-line.
My instant micro interpretation of the readout was:
Trump to Poroshenko (translated): I know you started this on order of McCain/Graham/Biden. Screw you. You will win nothing. You are out.
Poroshenko had fired up his troops and promised to fight the rebels throughout their autonomous area up to the Russian border. The intend behind that was to sabotage Trump's policies. Poroshenke will now have to revise those plans.
Trump topped the above readout in an interview with Fox news a part of which was previewed last night (partitial transcript):
Bill O'Reilly: Do you respect Putin?
President Trump: I do respect him but -
O'Reilly: Do you? Why?
President Trump: Well, I respect a lot of people but that doesn't mean I'm going to get along with him. He's a leader of his country. I say it's better to get along with Russia than not. And if Russia helps us to fight against ISIS, which is a major fight, and Islamic terrorism all over the world - that's a good thing. Will I get along with him? I have no idea.
O'Reilly: But he's a killer though. Putin's a killer.
President Trump: There are a lot of killers. We've got a lot of killers. What do you think - our country's so innocent?
Whoa - Trump is rejecting the U.S. national religion - exceptionalism. The Republicans would have eaten Obama alive had he ever said something like that. "Are you suggesting that Russia which is always killing civilians is morally equal to us who only kill terrorists?" Now the Republicans will be silent about this and the Democrats will howl.
Taken together the recent statements by the Trump administration are positive for renewed U.S.- Russian cooperation. The Ukraine case will be a non-issue. Poroshenko listened to the wrong master's voice. He will (have to) see the light and leave immediately or he will be kicked out of the way.
Posted by b on February 5, 2017 at 04:09 AM | Permalink
I hope you're right about this.
Posted by: Judy | Feb 5, 2017 4:26:14 AM | 1
Its obvious that Trump really want world-peace with Russia, there is no doubt on that, however will his neocon warmongers let him?
I think the necons will win easily unfortunately.
Also there need to be a new reset. Otherwhise US/Russia wont get anywhere.
Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 5, 2017 4:42:18 AM | 2
Halley's remarkable diatribe was taken very lightly, almost humorously by Churkin. A head-fake by being a 'Nixon', to deceive the MIC Republican's in Congress publicly, prior to a planned rapprochement ?
The bought & paid for republican's dedicated to the MIC strip-mining the economy is a major impediment to any such plan. As a bloc they were opposed to the Trump faction's ascension ... what will they do ?
Such open talk destroys all the myths built up over centuries ... the mask/facade comes off when an elected President speaks candidly ... no mere whacko or conspiracy theorist to demonize ... and he has the presidents public 'Bully Pulpit' !
The Anti-Trump faction will howl like Banshee's in the night, if there is more talk of the lack of 'Innocence' of the Empire!
If only for that, it is very good indeed. Let us see what eventuates ...
The 'appointed' Poroshenko and cronies will be at great risk by their very own peers and fellow arch-opportunists, as they see the material US & international support for the spurned Vassal evaporate ... they will likely deal with it themselves, in order to seek to ingratiate amongst the 'Sea Change' ... if so, Pompeo/Tillerson will likely already have issued directives to support/enable that effect ...
Posted by: Outraged | Feb 5, 2017 4:44:26 AM | 3
Poroshenko didn't "fell for the incitement", he isn't dumb. He has done what he has done to keep good relations with Biden & Co, and those behind. He cannot care less about Avdeevka inhabitants (or any other poor souls happened to live in the grey zone). He doesn't even care about the war in general. What he cares about are 1) his business in Ukraine, 2) safety of his money abroad, 3) and his own immunity to prosecution (also abroad). As long as he can realistically assume neocons will provide him (2) and (3) - he will do their bidding, Donbass, Ukraine and Trump be damned.
Posted by: Wizzy | Feb 5, 2017 5:21:43 AM | 4
President Trump: There are a lot of killers. We've got a lot of killers. What do you think - our country's so innocent
yeah, i saw that first thing this morning, and i agree b, it's a real whopper. but, the exceptionalism runs deep. until they clap motherfuckers like McCain and Graham in irons...
who have committed one of the more blatant acts of treason we've witnessed lately.
Posted by: john | Feb 5, 2017 5:49:00 AM | 5
b on Haley: The speech was probably just a head-fake or some uncoordinated screw-up.
(I watched 3/4.) I hope b is right. However, it was received as a bad blow by many at the UN. (but see Outraged for Churkin..)
1) Because of the content of course, but also because this dame came over as utterly incompetent. The harpy Power could be viewed as a self-convinced rabid ideologue, which is one ball of wax.
2) Because the Trump admin had various other options to hand, and did not use them. a) Leaving Power in place for a while (suffice to bruit about that some hitch with the replacement, and in any case then Power becomes a has-been) b), leave the post empty for a while (not recommended) but Trump will be Trump (say), c) send an envoy or place-holder or ‘temp’ whose hands are of course then pretty much tied, but the person shows goodwill, makes bland and reassuring noises, etc.
That speech was a diplomatic howler, an epic mistake. It showed at the very best disorganisation and at worst terminal weakness (i.e. Trump is not in charge, his stated policies are not being followed, he was forced into that appointement by neo-cons, he made some deal for x, y, etc.) Backtracking from it …tough…
As for Porky, he will be ousted, but not just yet, and the Ukr. oligarchs - the camp of his enemies and the follow-along opportunists - will try to effect a re-set of ‘the’ Gvmt. by creating a new shiny face. Yet, this will accomplish absolutely nothing for Ukraine, Ukrainians, and the Donbass: the country will continue sinking into a black hole. In theory, a very tight, trusting US-R alliance, with the US bullying Germany/EU, could attempt a fix-it, with some hope of success, but I don’t see that happening.
Posted by: Noirette | Feb 5, 2017 6:06:19 AM | 6
"It condemned Russia for about everything and promised that sanctions on Russia would stay. But two days later she visited the Russian UN ambassador Churkin in his private home in New York city to make nice. The speech was probably just a head-fake or some uncoordinated screw-up." (@b.)
Hard to decipher. Certainly was unexpected causing dissonance and shock. Perhaps a subtle psychological trick of repeating the enemy's (neocon) words one more time out of context? After all, they represent exactly what has been said and promoted for years under Obama.
Straw-man? Run the script and wait for the reaction to deflate the mad McCain and Co? Clumsy but I smell set up.
Posted by: x | Feb 5, 2017 6:38:30 AM | 7
Bill O'Reilly is awfully stupid and shows it freely. Trump made a mistake talking to this imbecile.
Posted by: Adam Baum | Feb 5, 2017 7:19:13 AM | 9
One thing is sure, there's never a dull moment with Trump. Have no idea where this is going to lead to? Rather reminds of the "Wizard of Oz", at least to date, with all the actions/retractions, as in "what's behind the curtain" types. Ruffle the feathers, without a doubt.
Posted by: Eugene | Feb 5, 2017 7:24:16 AM | 10
- I consider the renewed "hostilities" in eastern Ukraine as a test for Trump. How is he going to re-act ?
- Similar story for 2 other things: 1) the anouncement that North Korea was preparing a new launch of a ballistic rocket, 2) the recent launch/test of 2 iranian missiles in Iran.
It was all meant to test the new president. It will be interesting to see if one or more political heads will roll in the coming days/months. And above all, whoms heads are going to roll. Perhaps Michael Flynn's head ?
Posted by: Willy2 | Feb 5, 2017 8:31:06 AM | 11
- The neocons made the mistake to demonize Trump and they're now paying the price. Although I do think it will take much more time to destroy the neocon way of thinking in DC. There're still too many people who have a financial interest in the neocon way of thinking.
Posted by: Willy2 | Feb 5, 2017 8:35:24 AM | 13
Posted by: s | Feb 5, 2017 8:33:45 AM | 12
Some Russian real estate might do the trick.
US gas and oil need pipeline security. Russia might be able to provide that - with the help of regional allies.
Posted by: somebody | Feb 5, 2017 8:46:20 AM | 14
Trump seems to be playing cat and mouse with the neocons to confuse them. Trump is an expert in spreading head fakes that are immediately picked as scoops by the desperate democrat leaning MSM. Bannon and Trump are no angels when it comes to manipulate the media. While this may give the impression he is not in control of his team, I guess it is all planned. Are McCain, Graham and other neocons up to that game of hide and seek?
We can expect them to set up lots of new traps for Trump. The war is on for a long time..
Posted by: virgile | Feb 5, 2017 8:57:17 AM | 15
Hi Moon, I interpret Trump's comment,
"We've got a lot of killers. What do you think - our country's so innocent?"
also in another way: a subtle message to the neocons that if they will create big problems, he will open the 9/11 floodgates. This is why I think Trump will not be impeached: the 9/11 represents his best insurance in this regard.
What is your take on it? Thanks
Posted by: GigiBi | Feb 5, 2017 8:59:43 AM | 16
In another age, the amount of land that Ukraine has ceded in this half baked coup by McCain/Nuland/Biden//Graham/Proshenko&friends might result in being disemboweled and filled with sand for public show.
So much was riding on a Hillary win... In the end Putin will say bye bye porky, hello Crimea and possibly more. Well played. Wont be long until Vlad gets some of that coin owed.
I've avoided commenting on this at all, that is until 474 people were arrested in a west coast operation, so there is some hard evidence of something huge which has been exposed - and it's just the tip of a coast-to-coast iceberg apparently. That number kinda makes the 51 in Norway pale in comparison. February is said to be big while Hillary and Bill are in Qatar. Watch this space I guess.
Posted by: MadMax2 | Feb 5, 2017 9:16:46 AM | 17
Nice roundup, b. It's good to see Trump walking the talk. I saw the Bill O'Reilly interview and thought it was significant that in this bit...
President Trump: Well, I respect a lot of people but that doesn't mean I'm going to get along with him. He's a leader of his country. I say it's better to get along with Russia than not.
... he referred to Putin as a leader of his country.
Imo that was a tasty little slice of first class, respectful, diplomacy. I can hardly wait for the first Putin/Trump love-in. I reckon they'll get along like a house (full of Neocons) on fire.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 5, 2017 10:00:19 AM | 19
I understand the Trump admin is crawling with neocons too so it's hard to understand how it's SOLELY about their policy and territorial desires unless the only diff between a neocon and neoliberal is really... Nothing. Nothing at all, in the final analysis.
Posted by: Razer Ray | Feb 5, 2017 10:09:17 AM | 20
See what trump said in december (in MSNBC's "Morning Joe").
He's very clear and very consistent.
TRUMP: When people call you "brilliant" it's always good, especially when the person heads up Russia.
HOST JOE SCARBOROUGH: Well, I mean, also is a person who kills journalists, political opponents and ...
WILLIE GEIST: Invades countries.
SCARBOROUGH: ... and invades countries, obviously that would be a concern, would it not?
TRUMP: He's running his country, and at least he's a leader, unlike what we have in this country.
SCARBOROUGH: But, again: He kills journalists that don't agree with him.
TRUMP: Well, I think that our country does plenty of killing, too, Joe.
Posted by: From The Hague | Feb 5, 2017 10:21:01 AM | 21
Thanks,b! Had to chuckle at the Poroshenko twitter - '...also discussed was the potential for a meeting...'
Outraged - I did finally answer your good response on the thread before the Open Thread. Sorry for the delay.
Posted by: juliania | Feb 5, 2017 10:43:21 AM | 22
"The speech was probably just a head-fake or some uncoordinated screw-up."
FWIW it was read flat voiced with no real conviction, as though she was told to do something she didn't agree with or knew was wrong.
Posted by: Yonatan | Feb 5, 2017 10:55:08 AM | 23
Not quite off topic...
There's way too much vacuous prattle about WWIII in the MSM and the blogosphere. Considering how gutless and risk-averse the Christian Colonials are, individually and collectively, there's ZERO chance of them summoning the courage/insanity to start (lose-lose) WWIII.
Q: So why the fear-mongering hokum?
A: Because the CCs want to get rid of Trump but so long as he keeps the (big) Basket of Deplorables on his side, the PTB are worried that getting rid of Him would incite a Civil War. And not just in AmeriKKKa.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 5, 2017 11:05:48 AM | 24
For a long while and in my youth, I supposed that the democratic party was the party of moral authority and uncompromising values. I didn't turn my head when they came at me with a spoon. I lapped up their culture of inclusivity, I shunned their anti-religious dogma, and I thought things like, "this wouldn't have happened under Gore," and, "Clinton left with a surplus." So when the machinations of an irresistibly charming Obama administration was unable to conceal the thread coming undone from the two-party narrative of good-cop, bad-cop, I guess I kept getting ready for worse.
Trump running was nothing interesting after previous sideshow incarnations of the presidential primaries, Herman Cann, et al. But we all know what has transpired since then.
But nothing has prepared me for the joy I felt when reading what Trump had just said to O'reilly. Acknowledging our muderous and tarnished legacy! Not even Obama. As John Berger wrote, "it's terms are crap." I used to shudder when Trump would open his trap and talk about the ME. But I guess he doesn't know the secret handshake and the language they use that make the US look like it doesn't even have to take shits.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 5, 2017 11:15:55 AM | 25
Thank you for this reality check b.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 5, 2017 11:18:51 AM | 26
Sure looking like THE DONALD vs the 7+ dwarfs in DC.
Who'd a thunk it. A "business man" so far besting the "brightest minds" and obviously having "cojones grandotes"
This DEPLORABLE is enjoying the show.
Posted by: Morongobill | Feb 5, 2017 11:21:33 AM | 27
Centrist Democrats are sweet-talking back-stabbers.
'Centrist' means that they are not your side. They are middle-men, taking a cut of the action. And serving the highest bidder. In foreign policy that is the Israeli-Saudi Alliance.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 5, 2017 11:22:41 AM | 28
The Trump interview with O'Reilly will be a nice counterpoint to the Lady GagGag halftime debauchery, both serving the purpose of inciting either "deplorable" or "snowflake"...
Posted by: Ryan | Feb 5, 2017 11:22:52 AM | 29
I agree, Trump does seem to have a strategy for Russian/Ukraine. An excellent commentary on what Trump is up against was posted this morning at:https://willyloman.wordpress.com/ Well worth a read.
Posted by: frances | Feb 5, 2017 11:42:02 AM | 30
While Trump seems to be doing the right thing re: Ukraine, he has already committed two "acts of war" re: Iran and Russia vis a vis sanctions.
Does the Oded Yinon Plan call for expansion into Russian Territory? Are Russophobe Zionists (Bzezinski, Kagans, McCain, Graham, Nuland/Nudelman) a separate division from MENA-focussed Zionists?
We see many of the same high profile Zionists in both clubs.
It seems that Trump may have made a deal. Let them expand settlements in occupied Palestine; and move toward war with Iran, but for this they must quit poking the bear.
Posted by: fast freddy | Feb 5, 2017 12:01:26 PM | 31
A monkey could look at the hundreds of reports and youtube videos coming out of Donbass and know the truth about what's going on. What's really insulting is Poroshenko, McCain & Lindsey thinking we'll all buy this fairytale of a "Russian invasion".
Posted by: doug smith | Feb 5, 2017 12:14:57 PM | 32
thanks b.. what i fail to get is why mccain and graham are given any cred, or voice in any of this? these 2 fuckers need to be taken to the shed, to put americans out of their misery.
Posted by: james | Feb 5, 2017 12:24:20 PM | 33
Atrios, the blogger at Eschatonblog.com wanted Trump to resign as president of the USA because Trump didn't mention the Jews in his Holocaust Remembrance Day speech!! (believe it or not) I can only imagine that his head is exploding now with Trump's comment about the USA not being so innocent. Ha, if this keeps up, we will have these type of people having coronaries left and right. But, how did they people survive the war in Iraq, what the US is doing in Syria and what it did in Libya? I've always noticed that the American "progressives" seem to get very upset by what people say or write much more than by what they do. I could never figure that one out.
Posted by: mischi | Feb 5, 2017 12:24:53 PM | 34
As I do most mornings, I've had to catch up on comments from previous threads, and I am struck by many of last night's late comments, as they seem to lead in to this morning's post by b and all that was said in that Trump interview.
Apologies if this seems off topic, but I don't think it is.
I believe Trump or his team have studied what Putin had to do when terrorism was emanating out of Chechnya. It wasn't pretty; it was horrible. Putin had to issue an ultimatum and then prove that he meant what he said. By all human measures it was a war crime - families were killed; innocents suffered.
Now, we have been all of us living a similar nightmare of ongoing carnage supposedly in the name of a similar tough justice. Our country has taken a war posture lo these many years supposedly to eliminate evil. But the difference - and it is a HUGE difference - is that the ongoing nature of this carnage makes it very evident that all the rhetoric since the bombing of the Cole has only been an excuse, an excuse to keep the horror ongoing, not to end it.
Trump comes in. And we have a horrible occurrence in poor Yemen that has been so victimized as a country beginning with the incident with the Cole. I'm remembering that a US operative in Yemen at that time was (coincidentally) a victim in the 9/11 horror with which we were bombarded by the tv networks for months and years afterwards. And as if to make us look towards Yemen, there's the Cole again. Almost as a bookend to the nightmare. Oh, I do hope that it is.
Outraged posted his '2 cents' last night - I urge anyone who hasn't to go read that. It's very powerful. Thank you, Outraged. (midthread,second page, previous post)
And to Peter in the comment above that I would say, you are wrong about Putin. He does need the approval of his people, and that is what has helped him endure and accomplish what he has accomplished against terror in his own country. His people support him. He could not have come so far without that. It doesn't matter what kind of government they are under; it matters that the aim is for the common good.
We have to be able to see the difference, even if we ourselves can never accept violence for the sake of perpetuating violence. Trump is different from what has come before him; he can only do what he is trying to do with the people's support. All he can do is get our attention.
Posted by: juliania | Feb 5, 2017 12:31:08 PM | 35
Great article b, I can only hope your take is correct. As a matter of fact, Trump's approach to Russia, is one of the only things I approve about Trump's Admin. Jesus, isn't it refreshing for any politician to admit that the U$A isn't fucking perfect? And to say it to Fox "so called" News, and the "propagandist-in chief" Bill O'Reilly, unbelievable, but I love it!
Let's hope this tact doesn't change.
Posted by: ben | Feb 5, 2017 12:47:34 PM | 36
"It condemned Russia for about everything and promised that sanctions on Russia would stay. But two days later she visited the Russian UN ambassador Churkin in his private home in New York city to make nice. The speech was probably just a head-fake or some uncoordinated screw-up." (@b.)
Remember Tillerson's and Mattis' congressional confermation hearings. To now come out and say something on the record to make these men liars under oath would not be right. Instead, the NeoCon starting position is voiced/parroted/read into the record. Next a Ukraine "audit" is conducted and the official position is changed. Just a diplomatic sequence.
Posted by: Eric | Feb 5, 2017 1:10:48 PM | 37
Thank you frances@30
Well worth a read, indeed. I love the point about Cerberus at the mouth of hell - he's there to keep the deplorables IN!
Posted by: juliania | Feb 5, 2017 1:16:21 PM | 38
Juliania @ 35: Thanks for the "heads up" on the "Outraged" posting on the prior thread. Your're right, an absolutely first class synopsis on reality.
To Outraged, whoever you are....KUDOS! True, and very well written. Thanks.
Posted by: ben | Feb 5, 2017 1:19:23 PM | 39
It's really beaut to hear Trump superimposing some sanity on relations with the Neocon/Christian Colonial's No1 Phantom Menace, Russia. If his anticipated rapprochement with Russia bears fruit then it could open the way to repeating the exercise with the multitude of other CC Phantom Menaces beginning with, but not limited to, North Korea and Iran. It is time to roll back the appallingly disingenuous, divisive and destructive bullshit spouted by violent Christian Colonialism's AmeriKKKan and Eurotrash profiteers and vampires.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 5, 2017 1:29:43 PM | 40
Well the facts in Haley's speech are certainly not an "uncoordinated screw-up", she didn't slip, fall, and pick up an old Samantha Power speech my mistake, did she? So we're left with; a "head-fake"? You think the newly elected president's ambassador to the UN would make her debut speech there ironically(irony is the only thing that fits, since its is 180 degrees from the truth) in order to "head-fake" someone?
Regardless of the target of the "head-fake", I can't see how this wouldn't be more damaging than just coming out with the truth. Damaging to Trump, damaging to the party, the entire country and its people. I'm afraid the only "head-fake" is the one that's been pulled by certain members of Trump's cabinet, on certain other, perhaps recalcitrant members, if not Trump himself. They all got "the talk". Trump will be thrown bones to throw the people, like the triumphant cost-cutting of this or that MIC knicknack, but the faire will still go on.
Posted by: sejomoje | Feb 5, 2017 1:36:03 PM | 41
I still don't take anything Trump says as definitive. At least for the moment.
The other point I find remarkable is the undiplomatic honesty at the moment. Trump admitting tha
Posted by: Laguerre | Feb 5, 2017 1:44:00 PM | 42
*Trump admitting that the US is not entirely innocent. Malloch admitting that he wanted to take down the EU. We all know this is the truth about US policy, but I would think there are consequences for admitting it.
Posted by: Laguerre | Feb 5, 2017 1:46:10 PM | 43
People always make the same mistake by looking at what McCain and Graham are doing - and presume that this duo has some undue influence upon the US foreign policy. It's not so, never was, never will be. Their assigned function is to provide hawkish background to more dovish and rational players, most of whom reside in the real power centers, the NSC and the State Department. This good cop/bad cop spectacle serves as a facilitating factor for the US diplomacy. McCain and his boyfriend visited Kiev in order to keep EU's Russian policy paralyzed until the deal is struck between Washington and Moscow (both capitals work feverishly on it as we speak, since Trump's 2020 re-election hopes rest on the fastest possible rapprochement). Otherwise, Europeans - mortified of being left in the cold - would front-run America, which would be detrimental to the US negotiating position.
Posted by: telescope | Feb 5, 2017 2:04:09 PM | 44
@44 telescope.. thanks. i still think they should be removed from the scene asap..but i get it - workin' for the mil is good revenue..
Posted by: james | Feb 5, 2017 2:42:15 PM | 45
Wenn ich mir die Leute ansehe, die Trump in sein Kabinett geholt hat ist klar, dass der aussenpolitische Kurs gegen Russland kontinuierlich fortgesetzt wird. Das Ziel: Krieg gegen Russland. Alle Zeichen stehen weiter dafür, leider aber real.
Posted by: andreas233 | Feb 5, 2017 2:43:51 PM | 46
вы считаете нормально комментировать на немецком?
Posted by: ALAN | Feb 5, 2017 2:54:04 PM | 47
Prolétaires de tous les pays, unissez-vous!
Posted by: Mina | Feb 5, 2017 3:16:19 PM | 48
Posted by: ALAN | Feb 5, 2017 3:46:47 PM | 49
They'll be removed soon, due to natural causes and/or a repetition fatigue. But the show will go on...Cotton-Rubio clown show will enter the scene after McCain & Co departs. That's just how US foreign policy is conducted, and it's reasonably effective.
Posted by: telescope | Feb 5, 2017 3:57:00 PM | 50
Yonatan | Feb 5, 2017 10:55:08 AM | 23
I picked up on that also, the way Nikki Haley read, very carefully read, the prepared statement. If you also analyze the statement it was very simply a reiteration of Obama's policy statement of the Ukraine situation. My interpretation was that some US staffer in the UN gave Nikki an official US policy statement. So far, Trump has not said much if anything about US policy towards Ukraine.
If I was sitting in her position, I would have declined to say anything. But for the US to decline to say something in that situation would be interpreted by the international diplomatic corp as a major reversal of policy. I think Nikki was figuring it was not her job to announce a major change in US policy towards the Ukraine unless she had specific instructions from the Trump admin.
I am not sure of this, but from the little I have seen of Nikki Haley she seems quite articulate and fast on her feet. The stilted way she read that prepared statement indicated that this was not something she fully understood and was waiting for further instructions from above.
Posted by: ToivoS | Feb 5, 2017 4:01:56 PM | 51
b. might be right, but there are few things.
Crimea will never be part of Ukraine again - ever. It is a Russian peninsula and it is going to stay that way.
There will never be a conventional war with Russia, so US and NATO military presence in Eastern Europe is useless and it costs money.
Russia needs Ukraine just for the brevity of using existing gas and oil pipelines, also for an economic exchange, but that is less relevant.
Russia will always support Iran, as it is a good military and economic customer.
Russia will never abandon China out of the same reasons. Together they do and they will continue to have the upper hand on USA.
While UK is looking for its role in the World and that could take some time until found, it is important that EU understands that it is sharing the continent with Russia and not with USA.
If not Trump, but someone in his administration understands all that and while it can take ages to curb relationship with Russia to a cool, best policy right now is to throw all the relics of Obama administration out to speed up the process and concentrate on its isolationism. Best thing for everyone involved and a collateral, really.
Posted by: laserlurk | Feb 5, 2017 4:05:54 PM | 52
For goodness sake, the USS Cole is back as a provocation. This administration LIED, get it, they LIED, pinning the attack by the Houthi rebels on the Saudi ship on IRAN. This is false. Then they compounded the lie by stating that Iran is using the attack on the Saudi ship as a dress rehearsal to attack the USS Cole. This is fudging the truth, this is a narrative for war; this is a path to a false flag against Iran.
Quit making Trump appear like he's the fountain of political wisdom just because he pretends detente with Putin. HE'S NOT. This is not what it appears to be on the surface. There's a whole lot of ulterior, devious strategy here having to do with Iran. Trump could care squat about detente with Putin, ergo the contrasting narrative! The only good thing in what Trump said is that a few days after his Yemen operation slaughtered scores of civilians he can justify himself this way and expose the hypocrisy of U.S. policy. Oh...killing is necessary. BULLLL. Don't defend the indefensible as he's doing! Trump will sputter any shit to satisfy his aim.
If U.S. policy were just; if the U.S. would withdraw their f...king bases from the Middle East there would be no need for the WOT! The WOT is the biggest war and Empire propaganda and bonanza for the MIC and Zionism ever created.
This White House reeks of Islamophobia and Iranophobia and you can't get around that, you can't deny that, you can't justify that. Just because Trump plays detente with Putin is no excuse to defend the indefensible.
There is something monumentally wrong with this Presidency and it will become clear. Trump used the dumbest lot of the American mass to get into the White House; that should tell you a lot. He exploits IGNORANCE. Only someone who gets ahead with deception needs to exploit ignorance, play on fear of the other, bigotry. Again, you can't get around this fact; it's impossible to defend someone who does this. A person who exploits ignorance is always a danger and a threat to what is morally correct, justice and the truth. He exploits ignorance to inflict injustice. You can't defend that with the pretense of him warming up to Putin??? You are discarding the greater good for the lesser one and compromising morality, justice and the truth in exchange! How does that help when after Trump gets what he wants from Putin; he wreaks more havoc and injustice and you realize to late that he is Empire's puppet emperor after all? How will it help when after he achieves his goal with Iran and China he takes on Russia? Look at what you are trading and surrendering for a temporary pretense at detente.
Trump is not a man of the working people; he's an exploiter; he's a cheapskate billionaire, he's a megalomaniac who lusts for attention. That's all he is. He's not some different politician that re-invented the wheel.
Here's an article that explains some of it pretty well, although, he is much worse and even more dangerous. This article is limited to the domestic side of Trumps but it is very effective in exposing him for what he really is. The foreign policy side is way more dangerous.
Posted by: Circe | Feb 5, 2017 4:17:14 PM | 53
Ich sehe Krieg gegen China. Zuerst.
Posted by: ruralito | Feb 5, 2017 4:23:09 PM | 54
Posted by: ALAN | Feb 5, 2017 5:03:51 PM | 55
Laserlurk @ 52:
NATO and US military presence in eastern Europe (especially in Poland and the Baltic nations) is not entirely useless. Those countries need the money and the jobs US military bases provide: that is, jobs in cleaning toilets, mopping floors, serving junk food in canteens and pole-dancing entertainments.
How else would the Baltic nations in particular be able to fund the austerity programs that among other things impede their citizens' ability to set up their own businesses and force them to emigrate to find work so they can send remittances back home?
Posted by: Jen | Feb 5, 2017 5:13:58 PM | 56
Hard to acknowledge the many insightful comments. Just finished reading an intriguing book review; its intro: "Every once in a (long) while a book comes out that rips the zeitgeist, shining on like a crazy diamond. Age of Anger, by Pankaj Mishra, author of the also-seminal From the Ruins of Empire, might as well be the latest avatar." Pepe Escobar's the reviewer, who never fails to open eyes and invite discussion. I mention this because it's related to all the discussion we engage in here but is rarely seen in the discourse. I don't wish to spoil the review, but here's the rest of Pepe's intro:
"Mishra, a sterling product of East-meets-West, essentially argues it’s impossible to understand the present if we don’t acknowledge the subterranean homesick blues contradicting the ideal of cosmopolitan liberalism — the “universal commercial society of self-interested rational individuals” first conceptualized by the Enlightenment via Montesquieu, Adam Smith, Voltaire and Kant."
I read the review after reading Outraged's remarks several pointed to that centered on Algeria and the terror perpetrated by both sides, and it's easy to see how those events--and those of yesterday and tomorrow--mesh with what Mishra's writing about. So, here's the link; enjoy the read! http://www.atimes.com/article/look-back-anger-unplugged/
Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 5, 2017 5:20:20 PM | 57
Circe @ 53: Thanks for the link. Good explanation about " blaming the passengers on the train, for the train wreck", which is all the rage for some politicians.
As to Trumps "detente" with Russia.. It's only, for me at least, " looking for any port in a storm", as it is, I succespect, for many.
The article you provided, details I'm afraid, Mr. Trumps real character flaws, and the flaws of those he's chosen to surround himself with.
Working class , bend over, and lube up.
Posted by: ben | Feb 5, 2017 5:27:04 PM | 58
I wouldn't read too much into Nikki Haley's speech at the UN. Other than what she said, that is. And what she said is that the Obama administration's take on the Ukraine situation remains the default position for the time being. Speculating that she went rogue or trying to read something out of a SC governor's body language on her first appearance on the world stage shows a certain desperation to spin hard facts into something else.
Oh, and Lindsay Graham and John McCain are not going to jail. Just so you know.
It would be pretty hard for Trump to call Putin a killer a few days after his vaunted Seals smoked a raft of civilians in Yemen. It doesn't seem to square with his campaign rhetoric about disentangling the US from its role as world policeman. His visceral hatred of Iran and his in-your-face dealings with China, Mexico and Australia don't seem to indicate much of a propensity for tact and diplomacy.
So I don't think there's too much to glean from Trump and Putin's relationship before their first meeting. It's rather curious that he can be such a hardass talking about China while waxing poetic about the possibilities of US-Russia cooperation. Maybe it's because there's no trade involved. Maybe he thinks that he can be friends with Putin while being blood enemies with Putin's allies namely Iran and Hezbollah. Putin's modern military and nuclear capabilities must certainly give him pause but so should fighting a war with China on their doorstep.
Putin's not reading too much into Trump's interviews with old white men on television. Maybe we shouldn't either.
Posted by: peter | Feb 5, 2017 5:37:28 PM | 59
Posted by: ruralito | Feb 5, 2017 4:23:09 PM | 54
Das glaube ich nicht.
Pepe Escobar on China's offer to invest in Trump's infrasctructure plan.
Posted by: somebody | Feb 5, 2017 5:37:38 PM | 60
peter @ 59 said "Putin's not reading too much into Trump's interviews with old white men on television. Maybe we shouldn't either."
True, but damn, it sure is rare to hear any kind of truth on MSM, especially on FOX.
Posted by: ben | Feb 5, 2017 5:50:02 PM | 61
"Urgent from Donetsk city 06/02/2017!!! It looks that this night the troops of Poroshenko may try to enter Donetsk using a massive attack with ballistic missiles according to commander Basurin (DNR speaker). The full state of war has been declared by the DNR authorities. The Spartak battalion that is defending the airport is getting massive shelling right now. Poroshenko forces should attack the city before the Cossacks arrive here. Units of Don Cossacks are expected to enter the city next week to reinforce the defense of Donetsk. One of my friends told me that the power can be cut and also the internet and that I should be ready for the worst scenario. #maidan #savedonbasspeople #gonzoblogger"
Posted by: x | Feb 5, 2017 6:00:57 PM | 62
If Trump didn't have his own ideas about rapprochement with Russia/Putin, he'd have no need to buck the system - pretend or otherwise. The system indicates bellicosity, yet here you have a reluctant Trump where there is no need for reluctance (to be a warmonger).
Plus the redneck populous is on board with whatever Trump wants to do. They trust him. Honeymoon stage.
Now Trump is following Obama FP with carte blanch for Israel, except where Russia is concerned vis a vis Syria. Another area where Trump need not show restraint or reluctance to continue Obama's Scorched Earth FP. Yet Trump shows restraint here as well.
Posted by: fast freddy | Feb 5, 2017 6:55:08 PM | 63
b, '... just a head-fake or some uncoordinated screw-up'
the tee-rump 'administation' in a nutshell.
There are a lot of killers. We've got a lot of killers. What do you think - our country's so innocent? [... why i just killed an 8 year-old american girl - a real 'sweetheart' - literally bled her to death in yemen the other day. and there'll be plenty more.]
'The Ukraine case will be a non-issue.'
... right. just like syria, libya, yemen ... except for the nations destroyed and all the people murdered within them.
but they're all 'over there'. not to worry. tee-rump will fire someone and then he'll be all right. seen as a 'hero' in some corners.
would it be different if hillary were empress? not materially. the tnc msm spin would be clockwise instead of counter-clockwise.
think we need a change?
Posted by: jfl | Feb 5, 2017 7:10:06 PM | 64
@35 juliana @39 ben
there are numerous tl;dr posts by outraged on the last thread ... could you give a number to the one you think shines, so that this outraged fatigued potential reader might give it a shot?
Posted by: jfl | Feb 5, 2017 7:37:32 PM | 65
@65 ... and the thread title, so i don't get lost in a blind alley?
Posted by: jfl | Feb 5, 2017 7:38:32 PM | 66
Haley's speech at UN. Was disturbing but the walk-back makes sense given that Trump was accused of being a friend or stooge of Putin's. Even now, Pelosi Demands The FBI Find "What Russians Have On Trump".
Trump can't seem to rush into an embrace of Putin/Russia, even if a handful of realists (that's all that remain) believe that restoring relations makes a great deal of sense.
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Feb 5, 2017 7:43:37 PM | 67
The progressives, liberal left which rallied heavily behind Bernie Sanders, may be becoming weary of fake liberal Nancy Pelosi. She hasn't done a damn thing for common people yet.
The Democrats aid and abet the Republicans in the destruction of:
Labor unions, public education, reproductive rights, food and drug safety, privacy rights, and etc.
Plus they are Zionist warmongers banging the GWOT drum.
Posted by: fast freddy | Feb 5, 2017 8:08:40 PM | 68
The CIA and assorted alphabet agencies are flat out like a lizard drinking running a colour revolution in Romania, yet no one is paying it any attention.
The story as far as I can discern it is as follows.
Late last year the Social Democrat Party won the general election. This was little more than 12 months after the Bucharest nightclub fire which featured an overcrowded building that didn't conform to code catching fire and emergency response as slow as a wet week in winter. Thirty two people died in that fire and protests against the corrupt practices allegedly common in Romania forced the SPD out of power in October 2015.
The next chapter in this tragedy and amerikan sociopathic exploitation was that the new government was even more corrupt; while it set about forcing Romanians to bend over and take it from any amerikan or euro Corp with a couple of lions in their kick. The Romainian Leu (Lion) being the local currency.
Oh and the new gov went on an anti-corruption drive which was simply a method of removing the social democrat corrupt officials and replacing them with their own even greedier and more corrupt mob of assholes. Before everyone goes all judgemental about bribery, I would posit that what we consider corruption is in fact simply what has developed as an accepted practice for extremely low paid government workers to put food on their tables.
If you wanna stop it raise wages then enforce the law objectively the centre-right National Liberal Party (PNL) was only interested in cementing power and arresting Social Democrat (PSD) officials during their short time in government.
Yes corruption is bad - but not as bad as having to watch your kids go hungry - that is reality, and it is worth noting that the Social Democrat platform in the election was to raise wages across the board for some of the worst paid workers in europe.
Remember that Romania is still rich in hydrocarbons and minerals as well as having what should be a strong agricultural sector. But there are also millions of impoverished Nigerians - many of whom have traditional lands which are the source for BP and Shell keeping a mob of englanders in the billionaire's club. Romanians are pissed and rightly so but that doesn't excuse what happened next.
So in November 2016 the SPD won an election.
Following the previous governments purges most of the social democrat party leaders were in chokey.
They nominated a Muslim woman Sevil Shhaideh as their leader & new Prime Minister.
Some salient points from the graun which of course have to be treated with suspicion even when as in this case they appear to be reasonably factual:
"Romania’s president has rejected a proposal by the leftist party that won elections this month to appoint the country’s first female and first Muslim prime minister.
Klaus Iohannis gave no reasons for rejecting the nomination of Sevil Shhaideh, put forward by the Social Democrats (PSD), but there was speculation that it may have been due to her Syrian husband’s background.
Shhaideh’s Muslim faith is not thought to have been a problem for Iohannis. Instead, the focus may have been on her Syrian husband, whom she married in 2011.
According to the non-profit investigative journalism group the Rise Project, he has several times expressed support for the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, and for the Lebanese Shia movement Hezbollah."
It was after that, after the Social Democrats found a PM the prez would support that they did something spectacularly foolish, they are obviously lacking experienced political operators and being pressured by families of Social Democrat apparatchiks who are slotted up in the slammer because they were members of the Social Democrat Party. Yes they were involved in corruption, but so were the mob of cack-handed greedheads who locked them up.
Anyway the new government reasonably covertly pushed through legislation which gave amnesty for all convicted of corruption whose malfeasance was for less than about 38 grand.
I guess the idea was to free all the shit-kickers and use that to provide cover for freeing the Social Democrat Party bosses.
You can see the political naivety right there.
Romanians rightly were pissed off so they gathered and protested in huge groups - hundreds of thousands by all accounts.
The social democrats recognised they had screwed the pooch and on Saturday night, the night of the biggest demos, announced they were going to withdraw the legislation and associated clemencies.
They met on Sunday and did just that.
There had been much celebration on Saturday night from the protesters who announced they were stoked by the result.
What Romanians didn't know was that their political stupidity had let a fox into the henhouse.
Social networks began claiming that this was not enough, that a government less than 8 weeks old had to resign and on Sunday night the usual cannon fodder of colour revolutions, the urban elites were bolstered by busing Romanians from all over the nation into Bucharest to push for a revolution. This is a 3 colour revoution featuring the tricolour Romanian flag but all the other elements are the same. Use of urban elites, conversion of genuine desire for change to neoliberal & amerikan imperial goals. Bolstering demonstrations with free transport. Up until Sunday night the protests had been local affairs but the cia operators realised than the MSM would all be in Bucharest and it was essential the support on Sunday night for revolution seem as large as that on Saturday night - hence the need to bus everyone in to Bucharest.
Why a colour revolution? Because the current government contains a politician whose husband publicly supported Assad would be my best guess. Stopping her from becoming PM wasn't enough, Romanian ambitions must be ground into dust for getting so uppity.
Imagine being Romanian and being forced to eschew tweedledum neolib or tweedledee neolib in favour of Joe the trump amerikan exceptionalist who doesn't care what puppet you favour, cos he's gonna screw you anyway.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 5, 2017 8:10:15 PM | 69
Okay, quit with the bullshit already. Here is the part where he's talking about Iran. Imagine for a moment that it's not Trump but Tom Cotton (R)or Adam Kinzinger or John McCain talking here. Wouldn't you say that everything coming out of his mouth is Neocon garabage??? Be honest already!
If U.S. warships are prowling near Iran's space they have a right to investigate and drive the ship back! Another ship was caught in Iran's waters, the crew was held and then let go. The U.S. is continuously harassing Iran. If an Iranian ship was prowling off the coast of Florida, it might be bombed on the spot or the crew locked up! Imagine Iranian ships prowling around in waters off Florida -- U.S. would start WWIII! Imagine Iranian ships prowling waters outside Israel's perimeter - they'd blow it out of the water.
If U.S. ships were prowling near Crimea - Russian jets would be circulating, harassing back.
So Iran has no rights???
Gimme a break already. Trump is full of it.
Posted by: Circe | Feb 5, 2017 8:16:45 PM | 70
Lots happening under the turbulent waves. We only see the surface skirmishes and faint outlines of larger plans. We can keep on guessing for entertainment sake, but I for one am going to pull back and just watch. I'm nursing a case of whiplash.
Posted by: Andy | Feb 5, 2017 8:27:15 PM | 71
Trump knows there's no point in stirring up Ukraine again, since there's no intl. (read European) support for any escalation.
Poroshenko is well aware of this imo; not sure why he started this, but probably to divert from internal/ economic problems. He's under a lot of pressure, both form the population and from Ukraine nationalists/ Nazis, and trying to balance things to stay in power. He's flexible, won't be a hindrance to normalisation of relations with Russia.
The conflict is far from over, but its dangerous phase ended on July 13th 2015 when Poroshenko ordered the militias to be disarmed.
Posted by: smuks | Feb 5, 2017 8:33:57 PM | 72
jfl @ 65: post 112 under "outraged" thread. A moment of clarity?
Posted by: ben | Feb 5, 2017 8:40:36 PM | 73
Everybody will invest in it. It's in the best interest of the rest of the world to rebuild the US and make it economically self-supportung.
b: I don't think Trump cares about Ukraine one way or the other. It's a failed project of the previous administration, and he just doesn't want to be bothered for no gains.
Your last point is interesting: Trump can say (and do?) things which Obama couldn't.
That's a general observation: Right-wing politicians have it easier implementing seemingly left-wing policies, and vice versa. The policies may be necessary anyway, but a left-wing govt would face much tougher opposition to certain things.
Posted by: smuks | Feb 5, 2017 8:41:53 PM | 74
fast freddy @ 68said: " fake liberal Nancy Pelosi."
Ya' got that right. With few exceptions, its been " Good Cop, Bad Cop" with the Dems and Repubs for years, as the working classes go down the tubes.
Posted by: ben | Feb 5, 2017 8:46:21 PM | 75
@72 Poroshenko is probably hoping the Azov Regiment gets obliterated.
Posted by: dh | Feb 5, 2017 8:50:06 PM | 76
jfl, sorry man, make that 112 under "crazy ideas thread..
Posted by: ben | Feb 5, 2017 8:56:12 PM | 77
Please just come right out and declare that Donald Trump is the Spawn of Satan.
What about Hillary? Why is she not yet in prison?
Why is the Democratic Party not all up on RICO charges?
You love the one-two-party system?
You love to deprive us of strategic hedge simple score voting, with oligarch owned "voting machines".
You love fascism?
Posted by: blues | Feb 5, 2017 8:57:13 PM | 78
I'm ready to be called all sorts of names.
In general, I've quit posting to this blog, though I still read it when a new topic is generated.
What have I noticed? Well ...
That many of the pseudonyms used by most of the responders have changed. What has NOT changed is the tone of the people responding. Makes one wonder about the continuity of thought vs the change in names!
OK haters ... start hating! It is what you do best!
Posted by: rg the lg | Feb 5, 2017 9:05:03 PM | 79
What does "rg the lg" mean, actually.
How can I (properly) hate you if I don't even know who/what you actually are?
Posted by: blues | Feb 5, 2017 9:16:10 PM | 80
@60 "somebody", you're probably right, but don't underestimate Merka's capacity for butt-hurt: They think Mexico is being mean to them!
Posted by: ruralito | Feb 5, 2017 9:29:32 PM | 81
rg the lg @ 79: No names. As for me, I do, and always have, posted under my real name. It's been about ideas, not posted names. IMO, names don't matter, only the content of one's ideas/ opinions.
" sticks and stones, may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"...Old saying, but true. Don't have a clue who the author is:)
Posted by: ben | Feb 5, 2017 9:36:14 PM | 82
blues @ 78:Don't know about the spawn of Satan, but, maybe the spawn of Mammon?
Posted by: ben | Feb 5, 2017 9:39:08 PM | 83
Re: Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 5, 2017 8:10:15 PM | 69
When is the EU going to come out against this assault on democracy?
Posted by: Julian | Feb 5, 2017 9:50:46 PM | 85
Bush=Obomo=Hillary same as Bush=Obomo=Trump
Very interesting and guess what? Putin fault!
Posted by: OSJ | Feb 5, 2017 9:59:01 PM | 86
The question is now to what extent or extremes neocons and anti-Russian cliques in the CIA and Pentagon will go to incite an incident making it nearly impossible for Trump to engage in detente. For example, one of the Baltic countries gets hit by some mysterious missile, NATO retaliates immediate and shoots a missile into St. Petersburg. Or the Ukraine army starts shelling Russian territory
Posted by: Erelis | Feb 5, 2017 11:12:21 PM | 87
Ich sehe Krieg gegen Crimea. Jeden doch, bereits.
53 69 79
I would agree with you, Circe, and remembering how Bernhard the Elder shut down all the Hope and Chains fap-boys back in 2008, it's truly surprising to see MoA now taken over by Deplorables, the same way Israel was taken over by the former Soviet mafia, or the same way Breitbart was taken over by fascist Trotskyisy Bannon. Who are all these new outraged faces?
Anyway, Five Things of Trump:
1) the 'Jew' omission,
2) shutting down immigration from Yinon Plan nations,
3) increasing war crimes sanctions against Iran
4) shooting 8-year old American school girl to death,
5) releasing the Goldman hounds of hell, who now control all levels of USA Finance, including oversight, by releasing them from 'fiduciary duty to the client', a concept as old, and as central to human rights, as the now defunct jus primae noctus, (Magna Carta).
I group the five together, because of all the things Trump could have done in his first 6 days, he chose those, on the Eve of Shabbat, the Jewish Holy Day. They are all pro-Zionist choices he made. Then Trump and his whole Cabinet attended Shabbat dinner at Kushner's palace to celebrate.
Of those First Five Acts of Trump:
The Zionist media went nuts over the Jew omission thing, effectively rebranding the Holocaust (TM) as their own, without forcing US all to watch Schindler's List, again. Classic Trump.
The world media went nuts over the immigration thing. That's all they care about, getting into the US to loot the Fifth Quintile, the last free wealth on Earth, American seniors.
Then the world media all celebrated Shabbat too.
Renewed Iran war crime sanctions? Nothing. Whores for Moloch (the media).
The 8-year old murdered American schoolgirl, equivalent to Anne Frank, with her father and brother already assassinated by the Wehrmacht? Well she didn't fare so well. You won't be reading her diary on the Oprah book club.
And unleashing the American Financial Holocaust? Ho-hum. Crickets and tumbleweeds. Carpe aurum.
Give Trump time! He's just getting started! He's White! He's Rich! And His team won the Super Bowl! Sure, His scurvy Cabinet is packed 100% MIC-Goldman's, and He's anti-Constitutionalist and proto-totalitarian, but He's a 'good businessman', even if a bloviating charleton and bunko artist, whose shoes have never touched bare earth.
He's just trying to voodoo up the MAGA Demon of Gog-Magog, and soon OberReichsFuhrer Netanyahu's flying in for the Great Shaytan Festivus! Celebration time, come on! Let's party like it's 1999! Oh...wait...
Posted by: Even More Outraged Ji
Posted by: Even More Outraged Ji | Feb 6, 2017 12:38:09 AM | 88
thanks. i had read that one. i agree with the outraged position. tee-rump simply is what his actions make him out to be. no need to treat him as reflections on the wall of our fancied cave ... he's right out there in the sun for all to see. he tries to 'operate' in the 'virtual', media space, but the actions of the usa roll on - also visible in broad daylight to all but those habitually addicted to reading/watching the tnc msm to find out 'what's happening' and what they think about it.
trump's the potus. the boss. no, in this case, make it the apprentice. faking it. and no one can fire him - not without 'elevating' mike pence to his position.
Posted by: jfl | Feb 6, 2017 3:31:00 AM | 89
@ Julian | 84
Interesting indeed, however despite media talking about indigenous Yemeni ballistic missile (made from an ancient SCUD tech), I have doubts about that. 800 km range accurate ballistic missile, which can defeat an advanced THAAD defense system? It takes serious R&D and financing, which Yemen didnt had even before the war, and now country is under the blockade and reduced to stone age. IMHO Iranians bitchslapped Saudis through Yemenis, also had a benefit of live testing of their own ballistic tech.
Posted by: Harry | Feb 6, 2017 4:13:19 AM | 90
Posted by: jfl | Feb 6, 2017 3:31:00 AM | 89
Times are achangin jfl.
Trying to making Trump out.... US nationalist with all the baggage that entails?
Bay of pigs, Tehran embassy siege ect....
At the moment Trump intends to be the boss rather than the apprentice.
It seems either - US nationalists, like Trump, with all the US baggage - or out of the warmer into the frying pan with the Obama/Clinton globalist crowd.
It would be good to see the US become a normal country, but if that is not achievable, the sooner they are destroyed, the better.
Posted by: Peter AU | Feb 6, 2017 5:06:08 AM | 91
Posted by: Julian | Feb 5, 2017 9:44:09 PM | 84
"The missile was launched on Sunday evening, and sources in Yemen have described the missile test as successful. It is unclear exactly what missile was used, and casualty figures, if any, are yet to be reported."
..nothing like live testing with wahabbi guinea pigs..
Posted by: Peter AU | Feb 6, 2017 6:00:30 AM | 92
There is something monumentally wrong with this Presidency and it will become clear
is this a promise?
dovrei toccare i coglioni?
Posted by: john | Feb 6, 2017 6:21:10 AM | 93
@ Posted by: Julian | Feb 5, 2017 9:44:09 PM | 84
@ Posted by: Harry | Feb 6, 2017 4:13:19 AM | 90
The Yemeni Borkan-1, also known as Volcano-1/Vulcan-1/Scud-D2, has range of approximately 800km+, and a CEP of between 50m-300m(unconfirmed). More than adequate to target a significant military base/facility or city.
Faith in the supremacy of the expensive THAAD may be misplaced.
The Patriot missiles fired by the US Coalition in Saudi Arabia, and by Netherlands in Israel, during the Persian Gulf War (Desert Shield/Storm), using early Patriot batteries were wholly ineffective, despite all the BS fed to the public to the opposite. The interception rate was only ~9%, best case. The Iraqi modified Scuds are very similar to that developed by Yemen.
The Yemeni's have hit Saudi targets previously as follows:
On October 9 2016 Houthi forces fired a Borkan-1 missile, more than 520 km into Saudi territory landing inside the King Fahad Air Base in Ta'if, ~65km from the Holy City of Mecca. Saudi Arabia denies the occurrence of any damages. Another missile was aimed at the Yemeni city of Marib, the Saudi Coaltion forces also claimed to have intercepted this missile.
On October 12 2016 a missile was launched at the Saudi city of Khamis Mushayt, which houses the King Khalid Air Base.
On October 28 2016 the Houthi forces fired another ballistic missile, at the Airport at Jeddah, which houses the Prince Abdullah Air Base, ~30km from the the Holy City of Mecca.
In every instance the Saudi have claimed to have intercepted the missiles without suffering any damage or casualties. A remarkable series of claims give that even an intercepted Scud-D will have significant debris continue on the original approximate trajectory. In fact this 'debris'(& the intercepting missile itself) often caused significant damage and casualties in Israel & KSA, from the approximate 80 of 88 Iraqi Scuds launched in the Persian Gulf War, that were Not 'successfully' intercepted yet 'hit'. ~8 were 'successfully' intercepted, at best & disputed, ~44 were 'unsuccessfully' intercepted.
In the Persian Gulf War, Iraqi Scuds accounted for the majority of the coalition deaths outside Iraq and Kuwait. Of the 88, 46 were fired into Saudi Arabia & 42 into Israel. 28 members of the Pennsylvania National Guard were killed when a Scud struck a United States Army barracks in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia.
KSA has total censorship over events in Saudi Arabia. They are routinely proven liars re their Saudi-Yemen 'Press-Releases'. No damage, no casualties, not even from missile/interceptor debris ? BS.
Posted by: Outraged | Feb 6, 2017 7:43:57 AM | 95
GigiBi @ 16. .. a subtle message to the neocons that if they will create big problems, he will open the 9/11 floodgates.
Nah I don’t think that was the message here, that was just off-the-cuff Trump (or referred to some other matters.) Of course, using 9/11 as a form of implicit blackmail hovers over the whole scene, as does the pizza-gate, underground, brewing scandal. Trump knows perfectly well the Towers didn’t come down because of plane crashes (see link) and he most likely knows part of what went down (sic.) But, nobody amongst the PTB wants a Revolution of any kind - lame, botched, repressed, or not - or a civil war in the US. So ‘going there’ - to 9/11- is off the table, and ‘everyone’ knows it. Empty threats I would guess are not part of Trump’s repertoire. (Except when they don’t matter.) That is not a card that is being played. Pizza-gate however is another matter, for reasons too many to go into.
laserlurk @ 52 lists some of the real-politik fundaments. As this thread is about Ukraine, here similar, in no order:
— Russia will *not* take over, annex, or accept on request, the Donetsk + Lugansk People’s Republics.
— Kiev will never implement the Minsk agreement (or similar.)
— no Foreign Power will intervene there with ‘consequent’ boots on the ground
— The W is fed up with the money pit that is the Ukraine.
(-- add in other)
Posted by: Noirette | Feb 6, 2017 10:19:51 AM | 97
" it's truly surprising to see MoA now taken over by Deplorables."
Get over it. We deplorables are on a roll now that we got a real fighter in our corner.
And btw, I am referring to the DC swamp not this fine website.
Posted by: Morongobill | Feb 6, 2017 10:42:48 AM | 98
Sorry to be tardy - the comment is on the previous "NSA Flynn" post by b, Outraged@82.
Posted by: juliania | Feb 6, 2017 10:51:08 AM | 99
It is interesting that RT has posted this morning that Russia is objecting to Bill O'Reilly's calling Putin a "killer" but not to Trump's rejoinder. I take this to mean that they discern the difference between the two framing statements. O'Reilly's is one of pseudo-moral indignation which has been done to death now, and of the "shocked, shocked" variety so beautifully epitomized in the movie "Casablanca". (Outraged's reference to the movie about Algeria must have triggered this in me - if young folk haven't looked at the above one, they should.)
Trump's adroit repositioning of the term reminds me somewhat of Cheney's 'we have to go to the dark side', though the latter was another pseudo statement, of the 'you can't handle the truth' ilk. (Have to stop thinking in movie terms - sorry!) But I do think Trump is referencing Putin's handling of terrorism emanating from Chechnya back in the day when Russia was indeed being terrorized by renegades there. As I remember it, Putin issued an ultimatum - if a city or town harbors terrorists it will be attacked. Then he followed up with a very brutal example that he meant what he said.
It is also worth remembering that the Boston Marathon attack had been warned against by Russia and ignored by the US. That one to me is more telling even than 9/11 - I've always thought both were deliberate set-ups to get the public riled up in dark manipulative fashion. Minimally, both events created havoc; ultimately we learned to be very skeptical of orchestrated events.
Posted by: juliania | Feb 6, 2017 11:17:18 AM | 100