Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 06, 2017

New Intelligence Report Adds No Evidence Of "Russian Hacking" (Updated)

UPDATE: Up to today there is no public evidence that Russia hacked the Democratic National Council and/or released DNC material to Wikileaks. After today's new intelligence report (pdf) there is still no such evidence. (One third of the report is dedicated to criticize the Russian government's TV outlet Russia Today for criticizing Hillary Clinton. The RT viewer numbers claimed in the report are evidently false from 2012 and thereby completely irrelevant.) There are rather wild assertions and a lot of conjecture but zero facts that could be accepted as proof.

Alexi de Sadesky saz: "ноль + ноль = ноль"



When Hillary Clinton was defeated in the U.S. presidential election the relevant powers launched a campaign to delegitimize the President elect Donald Trump.

The ultimate aim of the cabal is to kick him out of office and have a reliable replacement, like the Vice-President elect Pence, take over. Should that not be possible it is hoped that the delegitimization will make it impossible for Trump to change major policy trajectories especially in foreign policy. A main issue here is the reorientation of the U.S. military complex and its NATO proxies from the war of terror towards a direct confrontation with main powers like Russia and China.

The cabal consists of President Obama, the defeated candidate Hillary Clinton, neoconservatves like the State Department's cookie dispenser Victoria Nuland, the Republican senators McCain and Lindsay and the military-industrial complex. (One of the few neocons planted near to Trump, former CIA director James Woolsey, threw the towel today and left the Trump transition team.)

A major role in directing the plot has fallen to Obama's consigliere John Brennan, the current director of the CIA. Another role has been delegated to the various military and NATO think tanks like the Atlantic Council and the British RUSI and reliable proxies within the media.

The current emphasis of the campaign is on the release of emails and papers from the Clinton campaign through Wikileaks. It is alleged that some releases were gained through hacking, planned and executed by the Russian government. Trump had announced that he plans to seek good relations with Russia, the power that the cabal had earlier chosen as the new enemy de jour.

But there is a problem. There is no real evidence that a "hack" ever happened. There is no evidence that Russia is involved. None at all.

Three cases of paper releases have to be differentiated:

  • The emails from Clinton's private basement mail-server were released by the State Department after various FOIA requests.
  • Emails from Clinton's campaign chief John Podesta were released after someone "spear phished" his Gmail password and got access to his mail box. Such spear phishing - sending an email which asks to change one's password on a faked login page - happens thousands of times each day. Naturally prominent people with publicly widely known addresses are the preferred targets of such stunts. This has nothing to do with real hacking which defeats a system's defense by manipulating computer code.
  • The Democratic National Council was probably hacked. "Probably" because it is still quite possible that a (murdered?) insider leaked the DNC emails and the hacking "evidence" is made up to conceal that. But even that "evidence", presented by the DNC hired company Crowdstrike, is thin.

Allegedly there were two different hacks into the DNC. One was probably harmless, the second one is said to have gained system-level access. I have found no explanation yet how the hackers of the second attack got their first entry into the DNC system. Was an administrator spear-phished? Crowdstrike's fluffy account doesn't say. But it mentions two well known tools the alleged hackers are claimed to have used: "RemCOM, an open-source replacement for PsExec available from GitHub" and "X-Agent malware with capabilities to do remote command execution, file transmission and keylogging". The X-Agent hacking suite has been known for some time and is used by several actors. It is likely also in use by other non-state and state services. All such hacking tools use freely available infrastructure like TOR or rented networks from cyber-crime wholesalers like the recently exposed Israeli denial-of-service franchiser.

The tools and the infrastructure the DNC hackers allegedly used are not evidence that points to any specific actor. Indeed any cyber-crime actor, like the NSA, seeks to disguise as a different actor when committing attacks. Something that "proves" that A did it is likely to have been created by B, C or D to disguise as A.

As no evidence exists the cabal has to rely on throwing chaff, lots of it, and on conjecture. Media who propagandize such are plenty. Keep in mind that some 95% of U.S. media backed Clinton during the campaign.

The Joint Assessment Report released (pdf) last Friday was hyped in the media. But it failed to prove hacking or any Russian involvement.

The new report released later today adds nothing but fluff to it. Selected bits of the new intelligence report are systematically "leaked" by "senior intelligence officials". Here are headlines from today that show how stupid the presented "evidence" is.

The Washington Post: U.S. intercepts capture senior Russian officials celebrating Trump win

A lot of people all over the world celebrated when Clinton lost - me included. So the headline above carries grains of truth. But it could have been be shortened to CIA finds, watches RT clip on Youtube:

Russia: State Duma applauds Trump's victory in US elections

The Russian State Duma welcomed the news of Republican candidate Donald Trump's victory in the US Presidential elections with a round of applause from Moscow, Wednesday. Deputy Vyacheslav Nikonov announced Donald Trump as the president-elect which was greeted enthusiastically by the chamber.

So yes, the WaPo report is correct. Senior Russian officials celebrated the Trump win - publicly. Even the CIA somehow got wind of that.

Deep down the Washington Post piece also says:

The new report incorporates material from previous assessments and assembles in a single document details of cyber operations dating back to 2008. Still, U.S. officials said there are no major new bombshell disclosures even in the classified report. A shorter, declassified version is expected to be released to the public early next week.

How could information from some cyber operation in 2008 be relevant here? The systems existing today are hardly the same. We can assume that this is only included to disguise the lack of current proof that any hack of the DNC happened. And the "no bombshell disclosure" line is just a different way of saying: "We got nothing new. There was no real evidence before this report and there is none in it now."

Also consider this lines from a Reuters report on the new release:

Not all 17 intelligence agencies participated in preparing the assessment.
The report contains some of what the officials called “minor footnotes” about open questions and other uncertainties

Not all 17 U.S. intelligence services signed off on the report. Those who declined to be part of it will have their reasons. Footnotes to the "slam dunk" 2002 National Intelligence Estimate on alleged Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction reports got some prominence:

Not all agencies involved concurred with the NIE’s conclusions. Two footnotes have come to public attention. In one, the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research dissented from the intelligence community’s majority view [...]. In another footnote, the U.S. Air Force’s director for intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance questioned [...]

Back then the "minor footnotes" caveats turned out to be correct while the "evidence" in the main report was fake and its conclusions were one big lie.

Consider also this example on how the "evidence" about the alleged DNC "hack" was gained: The FBI Now Says Democrats Were Behind Hack Investigation Delay:

“The FBI repeatedly stressed to DNC officials the necessity of obtaining direct access to servers and data, only to be rebuffed until well after the initial compromise had been mitigated. This left the FBI no choice but to rely upon a third party for information,” a senior law enforcement official told BuzzFeed News in a statement.

The third party was Crowdstrike, a cyber-something company who's founder and Chief Technical Officer is the Senior Fellow of the Atlantic Council, Dmitri Alperovitch. (I fail to find biographic information about Alperovitch. Where was he born?) The Atlantic Council NATO lobby is sponsored by various foreign (Gulf) governments and defense industry companies. Crowdstrike was hired by the DNC.

The FBI statement above inspired me to write this movie plot:

In the public courtroom:

Judge to FBI: "So you know who killed Mrs. Clintons Dream?"

FBI: "Yes. We think Vlad did it ... evidence ..."

Judge: "You found the evidence at the crime scene?"

FBI: "Yes, ehem .. no. We never visited the crime scene. We were not allowed to enter it. Our assessments rely on the reports by the private investigators. The victim's family hired those."

Hollywood rejected that movie script. "Hilarious, but too implausible," they said.

Whenever there is talk of "evidence" of alleged hacking or any Russian involvement ask for real evidence. You will likely be pointed to the several (semi-)official reports and opinions that have been issued so far. But none of these reports, which I read a to z, contains any real evidence. It may be that the DNC got hacked - may be. Even if it was - the case currently presented points only to tools and methods that are known and used all over the hacking and spying scene. To say that it was a "Russian hack" is pure conjecture based on chaff and hot air.

Keep in mind who makes those "hacking" assertions and the motives and money behind them.

Posted by b on January 6, 2017 at 10:48 AM | Permalink

« previous page

OK, I read the report and this is the only way I can describe the searing pain behind my eyeballs:

Someone reads a dozen pages of unsubstantiated conjecture and opinion to you a few months ago. You react with skepticism and suggest they really need some kind of solid evidence (or at least a more credible lie). They come back to you today an read the exact same twelve pages to you, but do so smirking with their voice at a slightly lower pitch.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 6, 2017 10:44:45 PM | 101

Re: Posted by: Michael | Jan 6, 2017 7:26:32 PM | 80

The reason this is happening now is because time is running out to kick things up a notch with Russia. They can big down Trump for several months in Senate hearings and so forth on his key nominees and essentially stymie his policy making.

What's the deadline?

The French Elections of course. The two leading candidates are both Pro-Russian and Pro-Putin at least top am extent. Once either Fillon or Le Pen is in the Elysee Palace you can forget about any French participation in these anti-Russian NATO war games.

Shop when is this deadline? Around May/June 2017,

You have been warned - we have only around 4 months until things go BANG BANG BOOM - get your shelters ready and well-stocked folks!

Posted by: Julian | Jan 6, 2017 10:46:22 PM | 102

Oh. Must check these posts for annoying auto-corrections!

Re: Posted by: Michael | Jan 6, 2017 7:26:32 PM | 80

The reason this is happening now is because time is running out to kick things up a notch with Russia. They can bog down Trump for several months in Senate hearings and so forth on his key nominees and essentially stymie his policy making.

What's the deadline?

The French Elections of course. The two leading candidates are both Pro-Russian and Pro-Putin at least to an extent. Once either Fillon or Le Pen is in the Elysee Palace you can forget about any French participation in these anti-Russian NATO war games.

So when is this deadline? Around May/June 2017.

You have been warned - we have only around 4 months until things go BANG BANG BOOM - get your shelters ready and well-stocked folks!

Posted by: Julian | Jan 6, 2017 10:49:21 PM | 103

Stay on topic here people for f..ks sake, an establishment is falling apart in real time. Enjoy it.

The accusation of hacking is easy to prove, it leaves a trail. There is none. This is nothing more than 'trial by corporate media' - no proof, just a wailing banshee throwing monkey shit.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jan 6, 2017 11:01:05 PM | 104

Obama does a Three-fer. See the link below for the end game.

After all the efforts failed to “Stop-Trump” because it was Hitlery’s turn, this continuation is nothing more than the perfect set-up for a three-fer; thus the “Intelligence” Report that Russia Did The Hacking was written to suit the last minute grab.

Petulant Obama thinks he leaves the White House “drowning” or droning the guy who has promised to repeal his signature legacy Obamacare.

1. De-legitimize Trump’s win and his plan to make nice with the new boogeyman Putin’s Russia. Putin is evil he robbed us of our plans to bomb Syria as we did in Lybia.
2. We need to distract from the contents of those emails exposing the high crimes and corruption. Wikileaks, that evil organization needs to be crushed and Assange extradited or droned.
3. The Russians undermining our elections makes it critical for the Feds to grab from the states the responsibility for elections. Got you!

Obama declares the election systems As Critical Infrastructure

In a stunning last minute power grab by the Obama administration with just 14 days left in his Presidency, the Department of Homeland Security released a statement this evening officially declaring state election systems to be "critical infrastructure." The statement from DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson defines "election infrastructure" as "storage facilities, polling places, centralized vote tabulations locations, voter registration databases, voting machines" and all "other systems" to manage the election pretty much everything.

I have determined that election infrastructure in this country should be designated as a subsector of the existing Government Facilities critical infrastructure sector. Given the vital role elections play in this country, it is clear that certain systems and assets of election infrastructure meet the definition of critical infrastructure, in fact and in law.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Funny the timing eh, Obama?
I recall that just weeks before the election there was a trial balloon for the Feds to take over the election system as critical infrastructure. Some states balked.

We’ll see what the Quaint Constitution and States’ Right Advocates think of this little gesture

Posted by: likklemore | Jan 6, 2017 11:02:19 PM | 105

@ rg the lg posts: all this thread

Assuming it is you and your ID isn't hijacked ... how does repeatedly promoting global mass suicide of the the entire human race, help ?! Suicide is NEVER a solution. At the very least certainly OT & spammy, hm ? ...

To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom.

The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.

Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so.

- Bertrand Russell

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 6, 2017 11:02:25 PM | 106

@ Posted by: likklemore | Jan 6, 2017 11:02:19 PM | 105

Funny the timing eh, Obama?
I recall that just weeks before the election there was a trial balloon for the Feds to take over the election system as critical infrastructure. Some states balked.

We’ll see what the Quaint Constitution and States’ Right Advocates think of this little gesture

Spot-on! Any presidential directive/authorization, and certainly anf farcical DHS directive, can be amended or revoked by following presidents, new DHS secretary ... it is Not Da Law! won't ever be disputed in court, 'cause it won't exist past the 20th ...

They are all really having a huge dummy spits, sustained tantrums, tossing all thier toys around the locked playpen of the last days of a lame duck administration ... so re-assuring to see adults in charge ... Pfft!

Dummy spit: (idiomatic) The act of overreacting (as an adult) to a situation childishly, in an angry or frustrated manner.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 6, 2017 11:22:42 PM | 107

I have been complaining about machine voting for years and years. Nobody listens. Now they are wondering?

I have actually staged protests years ago in voting stations complaining that I do not want my vote to go into a damn machine. Now, whenever I go to vote they have an armed guard stand over me.

Yet they insist on having these infernal machines. Idiots.

Posted by: blues | Jan 6, 2017 11:57:43 PM | 108

Well perhaps the most telling issue is that James Woolsey has been ejected or left the Trump camp. Mr. Woolsey has an interesting history; see Ghost Wars (Steve Coll) as well as his central role in coordinating Blair and Bush propaganda efforts back in 2001:

James Woolsey, a former director of the CIA, ambassador and Pentagon official who now describes himself as a "private citizen", is the man entrusted with investigating Iraqi involvement in the September 11 attacks and anthrax outbreaks.

Yes, some of us have long memories, we don't forget. Actually, I've followed Mr. Woolsey's involvement with the Trump campaign with great interest and this latest news is, well, positive. The CIA program called "Clear Vision" and the story of Mr. Jonathan Tucker. . .and Dr. David Kelly. A lot of dirty games were played back then.
Dr. David Kelly

All told, this is a nice analysis by b, the one thing I'd add is that the Democratic Party is having this internal power struggle right now, with the likes of Obama and Biden and the House and Senate Intel Committee members promoting the Russia hacker line (because the DNC reform issue would throw them out of power, if they got rid of superdelegates and set a constant debate program); and the CIA is oh so worried about the exposure of their Jordan and Turkey training camps and who they ended up supplying. That's enough to explain this PR push.

So the CIA and the corporate Democrats and the neocon Republicans (who actually have more in common with one another than Trump Republicans and Sanders Democrats, amusingly enough) are all working together with the lying corporate media to protect their own interests by pushing this Russia-did-it BS.

But what it really comes down to, is that the Bush-Blair camp turned into the Obama-Clinton-Cameron camp, a nice covert action progam that fooled a lot of people - but Obama just picked up where Bush left off, didn't he? As far as what Trump will bring, well this guy Marc Faber called it pretty well:

"It's all relative. . ."

I was very happy over Clinton's defeat because I like the idea of avoiding WW III. But Trump's domestic policy on energy, infrastructure? I'm sorry, I just see American Hustle redux. Still better than Clinton, but not exactly globally competitive. But, like I said, the ejection of Woolsey gives me some hope. I just don't want to see HUD 1980s. (Google it).

Posted by: nonsense factory | Jan 6, 2017 11:58:51 PM | 109

Interesting tidbit about the Tampa shooter.

He was a New Jersey native who grew up in Puerto Rico and joined the Puerto Rican National Guard and served in Iraq.

When he returned to live, he lived in Alaska. But - the interesting part is the suspect reported to the FBI field office in Alaska and told the FBI that while in Iraq that U.S. intelligence operatives had forced the suspect to watch ISIS propaganda videos.


This sounds exactly like all the theories we all have about ISIS - it is a CIA bloody psyop - and here we have someone telling the FBI exactly that before going nuts and shooting people in a Florida airport.

Apparently he hasn't been offed either - so he can sing.

Posted by: Jules | Jan 7, 2017 12:10:06 AM | 110

It is so likely that the Tampa thing is just another CIA/Hollywood production. Let's see who sues who in court. No one, as always.

Posted by: blues | Jan 7, 2017 12:19:38 AM | 111

Do I think the hacking could have been a false flag to make Russia look bad and to use to punish Putin for his interference in Syria? Absolutely.

Do I think there's a vast conspiracy against Trump's Presidency that includes: Obama, Clintonites, the CIA, NATO, some Neocon Republicans and Conservative backers of Pence wanting to install Pence in Trump's place? Where do I start? How about - uh, NO. And I suppose the Zionist donkey Trump's fellating is in on it too?

Oh, and the significance of James Woolsey walking away from the Trump team?...I'll get to that in a minute.

I always believed that Trump will be the sole architect of his downfall. This is a man who's being deposed in several lawsuits while he's on the brink of ascending to the Presidency. I believe he's a neophyte in over his head. I believe this is one of the reasons Putin preferred Trump over Clinton. I believe that Trump is a hot mess about to happen as leader of the not-so-free world; to become even less free, because Trump’s gonna make a bad situation even worse.

There's a wacky unpredictability about Trump that has the risk of sullying the reputation of those who associate with him; not that their reputations don't deserve a wrecking ball. I remember how uncomfortable Christie looked standing next to him after the grab them by the pussy video surfaced, and even after that kind of humiliating loyalty Christie displayed, Trump chose Pence as his wing man. He threw under the bus, the guy who got rid of Rubio for him when Christie trounced Rubio during that primary debate after which Rubio was in free fall and after Trump dragged Christie through the muck with him he picks someone like Pence, a Washington insider of the worst kind, to rescue his campaign that was floundering at that time when he was trailing Clinton by double digits. Like I said, Trump will sabotage himself. Should Trump fuck up; and Pence end up in the driver’s seat; it won’t be due to any conspiracy; it’ll be sheer stupidity.

Late last week, Trump stated he was going to make some kind of revelation regarding the hacking revealing something no one else knows on Tuesday or Wednesday. Then when Wednesday came and went he covered himself by lying yet again tweeting the intelligence briefing was delayed til Friday, when it was supposed to be on Friday to begin with. Whuuut? But-but he stated he knew something no one else knew; he didn’t say he was going to receive the revelation from the briefing; he implied he already knew something. After all, if he dissed the intelligence how could it be the source of his great revelation? This may be why Woolsey flubbed publicly stating: There's a 'Possibility' Trump is 'Playing Us'. Don’t jump yet; I’m not defending weasel Woolsey, but I imagine that Woolsey removed himself from the picture before Trump comes out with whatever statement he will end up making on the hacking issue at his planned press conference on January 11th (if he doesn't postpone that too like he postponed revealing his taxes (never did), postponed that big statement on his business interests; and postponed this big secret no one else knows except him. So I imagine Woolsey distanced himself so not to be viewed as having advised whatever conclusion Trump arrives at to punctuate this whole Russia hack kerfuffle. Guess Woolsey doesn’t want to be collateral damage in case the statement Trump ends up making blows up in his face.

The breadth of the Empire doesn’t compare to the size of Trump’s ego; I know something you don’t know…and you’re gonna have to wait to find out….(sheesh!) What is this—elementary school?

I imagine Putin’s hoping this neophyte ruler of the empire doesn’t unravel, better yet, implode prematurely; can’t say I blame him! Lol. Anyway, my point is this: whatever enemies Trump has; none is a greater than Trump himself.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 7, 2017 12:38:24 AM | 112

Kenny | Jan 6, 2017 11:39:47 AM | 9
I really do not want to be rude, so I put it as mildly as possible: Your WWII recount is fucking bullshit and an insult to millions of jews. I strongly hope not to encounter more fascist propaganda here. This is disgusting.
Politics is not math, minus times minus doesn't equal plus.
Posted by: Pnyx | Jan 6, 2017 1:47:10 PM | 29

That's Not Quite Right.
Have you forgotten the "Never Again" meme of Jewish-occupied Palestine's Jews; and their Palestinian Holocaust?
Or are you blind, stupid, and gullible?

The Holocaust lie - that Nazis hated Jews for no logical reason whatsoever - is one of the most dangerous and irrational lies in the History of Mankind. People incurious enough to swallow it without question can be persuaded to believe any sincerely-delivered, tear-stained horseshit. It's that lie which gullibl-ised enough morons to enabled the Fake War on Terror's wonks and wankers, to kick-start the FWOT based on NO EVIDENCE at all.
Grow up.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 7, 2017 1:53:49 AM | 113

@ Circe | Jan 7, 2017 12:38:24 AM | 112

Oh, dearest Circe, you aren't wearing any pants !

Did you forget to put them on when you were crawling out from under your bridge, you'll get a head-cold or at least a chill, you little troll.

Your post, clearly shows you didn't even read b's post, let alone manage to stay OT, how disappointing :(

Let's breakdown this tissue strength false construct drivel of yours, shall we ?

There was no 'Hack', not of the DNC, not of the election, there is ZERO evidence, hence No false flag, nothin' to do with Boogeyman Putin nor Russia. I say again, NO EVIDENCE, NONE. Put up or shut up.

... there's a vast conspiracy against Trump's Presidency that includes: Obama, Clintonites, the CIA, NATO, some Neocon Republicans ...

Much more evidence of that than the propaganda narrative being shoveled down our throats, by those in the above quote ... and you.

Woolsey flubbed publicly stating: There's a 'Possibility' Trump is 'Playing Us'.

Ah, Woolsey was referring to an, 'us' ? The 'us', being the listed parties in the first quote ? Yes, Woolsey, a bought and paid for, proven neocon chickenhawk warmonger propagandist of the first degree, will look out for and after 'us', heh ?. Insanely Delusional.

... So I imagine Woolsey distanced himself so not to be viewed as having advised whatever conclusion Trump arrives at to punctuate this whole Russia hack kerfuffle. Guess Woolsey doesn’t want to be collateral damage ...

Woolsey is scum, your imagination counts for naught. Woolsey has literally been collateral damage ever since his days at CIA. What Russian hack ? Focus circe, focus now. ZERO evidence of either 'Hack' or 'Russia', remember ?

I imagine Putin’s hoping this neophyte ruler of the empire doesn’t unravel, better yet, implode prematurely ...

So sad, that you are compelled to dogmatically persist with the failed narrative of your masters, regardless ...

Well, alas, we've exhausted what little substance there was in your long rambling propaganda drivel, though one must congratulate you for only a single instance each referring to Syria and Zionist flunkies ... since neither have any relevancy whatsoever to the thread.

Why not obtain an honest, moral, ethical form of employment instead to provide for yourself and your dependents ? You would learn to feel more positive about life, family, maybe even care for pets ? Please Circe, do think on it, hm ?

Now fuck off!

PS R. James Woolsey, jr:

Woolsey is one of the signers of the 26 January, 1998, Project for the New American Century (PNAC) letter sent to President William Jefferson Clinton. He was also one of the signers of another PNAC document, 'Statement on Post-War Iraq' on 19 March, 2003.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 7, 2017 2:12:12 AM | 114

It was reported "Hillary MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Clinton could challenge current New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, whose term will wrap up at the end of 2017, The New York Daily News said on Friday citing an anonymous source.

Hope this is not fake news. Love to see her runs against Mayor Bill de Blasio and win. A solid loyal democrats leftists base where she can make the Trumps lives miserable and forced Trump move into the WH. Trump must live with the 8-yrs stench left behind by the last occupants.

god gifts New Yorkers.

Read more:

OJS -> The Original Jack Smith

Posted by: OJS | Jan 7, 2017 2:29:54 AM | 115

@ Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 7, 2017 1:53:49 AM | 113

As pointed out, Pnyx is a concern troll, simply playing tag-team with his fellow trolls on the thread.

Dear friend, consistent & true, as always.

As is known, Zionism specifically (not jews nor their faith/religion) is truly an inhuman and dehumanizing ideology not too obviously distinct from fascism in its effects, reach & consequences ... evil. And that is not being anti-semitic. Not at all dissimilar to the former oh-so-White Afrikaaner rulers of South Africa with bantustans and self-serving, self-justifying & self-reinforcing ideology ... White Nationalism Apartheid ... yet more evil.

The terms 'race' and 'races' are a false and corrupt failure of discredited science, that was created to serve distorted perverted nationalism's/empire's ends.

We are all, simply, humans, on one Terra. *sigh*

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 7, 2017 2:38:50 AM | 116

The Hill
Jordan Fabian
Obama tells Republicans: 'Putin is not on our team'
President Obama says he's "concerned" that some Republicans appear to be siding with Russian President Vladimir Putin amid a fierce debate over allegations of Moscow's interference in the U.S. presidential election.
"I think that what is true is that the Russians intended to meddle and they meddled," Obama told ABC News' George Stephanopoulos in an interview that aired Friday.
But the president dodged when asked whether he was referring to President-elect Donald Trump.
"I said that after the election - we have to remind ourselves that we're on the same team," Obama said. "Vladimir Putin is not on our team."

Posted by: okie farmer | Jan 7, 2017 3:02:06 AM | 117

Link: The Hill
Obama tells Republicans: 'Putin is not on our team'.
By Jordan Fabian

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 7, 2017 3:08:44 AM | 118

UPDATE: Up to today there is no public evidence that Russia hacked the Democratic National Council and/or released DNC material to Wikileaks."

Once again, I point out how these provocations against Russia by the Anglo-zionists are so similar to those made by the same groups against Germany in the late 30's. Then their propaganda included the book distributed across Washinginton DC calling for the destruction of Germany and the genocide of its people. There was Roosevelt's fake map of South America after Germany had conquered it. And don't forget Roosevelts other false claim that Hitler said "The property of all churches will be seized by the Reich".

Its all the same lies propagated by the same group that love it when Christians kill each other over these lies. Its been going on since they murdered Jesus. Sure, they will scream "Racist", "Anti-Semite", "Bigot" just as they have been praticing and refining for thousands of years. The fact is that this world we are living in is not just one seeping in "fake news", it is one seeping in "fake jew history".

Posted by: Kenny | Jan 7, 2017 3:18:06 AM | 119

Yesterday I was talking to a guy I know. He's an academic historian and linguist. Overall he's quite a bright guy and a somewhat methodical thinker. But when it comes to Trump and "politics" in general, even this guy is 100% mainstream-media conditioned. "You know, someone sent me a politico piece that says it's russias general strategy to topple western governments by intelligence hackers". WTF man. Ok, the guy's like 10 years younger than I am, but even among my 40-ish friends, there only so few who have remained skeptical towards the immense waves of media propaganda bullshit. I'd never have expected that 10 years ago. If anything, I'd have expected that 'folks' in general become much more skeptical when faced with a situation like we have these days. I try not to, but feel slightly more frustrated each day, regarding the general consumption of "news" among the people I know. Crazy how this works.

Posted by: radiator | Jan 7, 2017 3:37:32 AM | 120

So, that's that then. According to the DNI, the docs published by Wikileaks are bona fide.

We assess with high confidence that the GRU relayed material it acquired from the DNC and senior Democratic officials to WikiLeaks. Moscow most likely chose WikiLeaks because of its self-proclaimed reputation for authenticity. Disclosures through WikiLeaks did not contain any evident forgeries.

Can we move on now?

Posted by: el sid | Jan 7, 2017 3:37:58 AM | 121

French msm version is that the 17 agencies all agree...proofs...trump was russia candidate... interference....but trump doesnt want to admit...against his self interests

I agree with julian, it is directed at french and nl coming polls, where the favorites are said to be too kind on russia
In the US it puts a plague sign on trump to prevent too many working with him

And it gives a side kick to wl, namely that they dont know who they get stuff from and could be instrumentalized so it helps in undermining their credibility. No wonder why Assange has no choice but to soeak to Foxnews.

Posted by: Mina | Jan 7, 2017 3:44:23 AM | 122

I also liked this bit: "Moscow most likely chose WikiLeaks because of its self-proclaimed reputation for authenticity". I.e. If the Rooshans had sent the docs to the WaPoo nobody would have taken it seriously.

The lads at the DNI didn't have to be that cruel.

Posted by: el sid | Jan 7, 2017 3:51:10 AM | 123

As is known, Zionism specifically (not jews nor their faith/ religion) is truly an inhuman and dehumanizing ideology not too obviously distinct from fascism in its effects, reach & consequences ... evil.
Posted by: Outraged | Jan 7, 2017 2:38:50 AM | 116

Gimme an effing break!
What, pray tell, led you to believe that I fell off a Christmas tree?

Zionism: The national movement of the Jewish people that supports the re- establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 7, 2017 4:02:51 AM | 124

For those who claim the DC and Podesta leaks were the influence that tipped the election,
let's remember that from day one the media was repeating non stop:

Trump is racist
Trump is sexist
Trump is misogynist
Trump is homophobic
Trump is xenophobic
Trump is literally Hitler
Trump is Putin's best friend
Trump wants to abandon our allies
Trump can't be trusted with the nuclear codes

And let's not forget the "Trump grabbed her by the pussy" leak. Nor the dozen or so women who suddenly recalled that Trump, too had grabbed them by the pussy.

And the media gave over to Clinton's wars in Libya and Syria and masked the fact the US government was in league with Al Qaeda and ISIS.

Let's stop pretending there was some neutral pre-leak playing field in the American infosphere.

Posted by: Ben Zanatto | Jan 7, 2017 4:10:49 AM | 125

that should read: "the media gave cover to Clinton's wars"

Posted by: Ben Zanatto | Jan 7, 2017 4:12:22 AM | 126

Am sure that the Russian government is aware that this is all a diversion from the evil the American government is planning. The Americans want to get everyone focused on the non-issue while they hope to execute a dastardy move against Russia. I think they have forgotten that they are dealing with master strategists. Not even the promise of Trump's better relationship would fool the Russians to lower their guards. The American media might make the non-issue their daily staple for as long as they wish, but the Russians are on high alert as ever,

Posted by: Steve | Jan 7, 2017 4:19:01 AM | 127

@ Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 7, 2017 4:02:51 AM | 124

No offense taken. None. Have you, perhaps, ever read The Wandering Who ? by Gilad Altzman, an ex-israeli ? ... regret my post, OT, its early and toot tired. Had no intent to offend or provoke you Hoarsewhisperer. Cheers.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 7, 2017 4:20:04 AM | 128


FYI, I did read the article top to bottom:

Something that "proves" that A did it is likely to have been created by B, C or D to disguise as A.

This implies it could be a false flag.

Secondly, the article doesn't discount one way or the other that hacking occurred, only that there's no evidence it originated within Russia.

It may be that the DNC got hacked - may be. Even if it was - the case currently presented points only to tools and methods that are known and used all over the hacking and spying scene.

Looks like your absolutist non-sequitur charge applies to 'b' as well, huh? Who's dogmatic, now? Looks like you're the one that didn't read the article. Looks like you're the one OT with you ad hom diatribe substituting for yet another vacuous argument.

I don't have masters - Circe.

Spare me the Woolsey bio; I wasn't born yesterday. Regarding your interpretation of his playing us comment - it's merely your outraged projecting. Even for Woolsey in that context; your interpretation is a stretch; I think he meant the reporter interviewing him, Megyn Kelly, the media and us (public) in general. That's not to say he's not a deep state shill.

As for your valediction: Right back atya!

Bully? Oh yeah--pegged.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 7, 2017 4:32:06 AM | 129

@Outraged #129:

Have you, perhaps, ever read The Wandering Who ? by Gilad Altzman, an ex-israeli ?

Required reading for every moonbat.

@Circe #129:

This implies it could be a false flag.

How can there be a false flag if there was no flag? There was no hack, as we know from a reliable source, Craig Murray.

Circe is a troll.

Posted by: Adalbrand | Jan 7, 2017 5:14:18 AM | 130

For those who claim the DC and Podesta leaks were the influence that tipped the election,
let's remember that from day one the media was repeating non stop:
Posted by: Ben Zanatto | Jan 7, 2017 4:10:49 AM | 125

100%. We cant forget these fabricated threads of reality were being crafted for sometime... Because of Ukraine/Syria/ColdWar/IvanDrago, Russian hacking must be true, f..k evidence...and we're not even hearing about the dodgy shite in the DNC/Podesta/Hilary'sSecOfState emails anymore. Instead we get glossy adverts featuring B Grade (((hollywood))) clown's like Martin Sheen telling us how the Electoral College needed to collectively piss on democratic process and pull a coup - and Dem electors actually responded by placing Bernie as their candidate. I mean, Haha, f..k off already would yas.

It's an absolute full court press by the Corp.Media and a handful of intelligence agencies. Guys like Clapper are f..ked, but I'm actually surprised at how much the entire MSM is still 'in the pocket' of the outgoing establishment given that they are...well..outgoing. Maybe they're still pissed beyond belief that there is no Pay For Play payoff and they are, as Anonymous @1 said 'going full retard.'

We are all getting a little glimpse of where the outgoing establishment was taking us should the witch have won.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Jan 7, 2017 5:15:26 AM | 131

This hysteria shows how the same lies after 911/wmd by bush still works today, msm is as naive and spreading hysteria and lies without any check concerning facts.
This is horrible, i live in europe and i can tell the media here is hysterical its like they want the war asap.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2017 5:27:44 AM | 132

@14 el sid @39 eve human @5 open thread petri krohn

putting together George Eliason's Why Crowdstrike’s Russian Hacking Story Fell Apart- Say Hello to Fancy Bear and Petri Krohn's Did a Ukrainian University Student Create Grizzly Steppe? it looks as though the 'hacking' episode was not only not the russians but that it was the ukrainians and is now the neo-cons, who authored the ukraine's collapse and sorry degeneration, who are responsible for the whole thing, from inception, to non-occurrence, to cover-up.

and who are, of course, trying to blame it on the russians.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 7, 2017 5:59:08 AM | 133

@131 mm2 @132 anon

i think the dnc/msm are deafening themselves in their echo chamber, that they have lost all traction with actual people, who despise them as the criminal liars they are. short of assassination they have no real recourse ... unless they do start the ww they're pining for on the nobel peace prize laureate's shift. all the us carriers are said to be safe, in their home ports.

'failing' that, all this nonsense will be over in another 13 days.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 7, 2017 6:32:24 AM | 134

@53 That governments sometimes seek to influence votes in other countries by various forms of publicity is neither surprising nor preventable. Obama actually flew into the UK during the referendum campaign and made a series of public statements and interviews designed to influence the outcome of the vote. They amounted to open threats as to the consequences of the UK voting to leave the EU, and how the country would be treated worse by the US in trade negotiations as a result.
States have interests in the policies of other states which means that they have friends and opponents in the political establishments of these states.

Posted by: Paul C | Jan 7, 2017 7:04:48 AM | 135

French gov radio broadcasts to what must be hyper-interested listeners Panetta saying that "it is inadmissible that Russia is let to interfere in US election"
uh really? the US never interfere? Snowden anyone?

Posted by: Mina | Jan 7, 2017 7:25:37 AM | 136

The U.S. is no stranger to interfering in the elections of other countries
Carnegie Mellon University study says the US had interfered in at least 81 foreign elections ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 7, 2017 7:36:41 AM | 137

Greenwald: WaPo rewarded for misleading public about Russia

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2017 7:40:54 AM | 138

mudduck@90 People never really thought the choice of president was truly the decision of the electors instead of the voters. Alexander Hamilton realized that if this were the case, then the electors could choose a Pinckney instead of John Adams in 1796. His efforts to make this happen brought a huge amount of controversy. Even his efforts to ensure that George Washington was chosen president by the college in 1788, instead of Adams tying him (in the days before the eleventh amendment,) were condemned as intrigue against the will of the people. When Burr tied Jefferson, the idea that any other choice than the majority winner should become president was bitterly opposed. In the first four elections, when the larger number of Founding Fathers who wrote the Constitution in Philadelphia were still walking and talking on the political stage, if the vote of Electors was all that conferred legitimacy with the popular vote merely the choice of the representatives, they would have had the Founders themselves points this out. Even the eighteenth century minds were to the left of most of today's politicians. The people were deemed sovereign, not Electors.

When Andrew Jackson lost in the electoral college, of course there was enormous controversy and bitter hate for the eventual winner, John Quincy Adams, who was a one term president. When the Constitutional procedures were ignored in the election of 1876, the ensuing president, Rutherford Hayes, was properly dubbed "His Fraudulency." It's true that Al Gore blithely accepted the machinations that gave this country George Bush. That was disloyal to the democratic ideals this nation has professed. Gore was a right wing Democrat who would rather sell out than get the people involved in politics past election day. Not only was this personally contemptible, it did the country no favors to have that vicious moron pretended to be somehow a legitimate president.

Pretending Trump is legitimate, instead of merely legal, that he really won, is a sure sign and symptom of a political swindler.

Posted by: s | Jan 7, 2017 8:08:05 AM | 139

Never before have I felt so depressed and actually worried about the warmongers planning and propaganda effort as these days.

U.S. To Deploy 4,000 Troops To Russian Border Next Month

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2017 8:36:05 AM | 140

An Addendum to mine @ 105. (Emphasis added with edit noted.)

From Obama’s “the most transparent administration ever. NOT.
Here it is MoA-ers. AP with their dutiful “mind controlled” title on the unconstitutional power grab:


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Citing increasingly sophisticated cyber bad actors and an election infrastructure that's "vital to our national interests," Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson is designating U.S. election systems critical infrastructure, a move that provides more federal help for state and local governments to keep their election systems safe from tampering.

"Given the vital role elections play in this country, it is clear that certain systems and assets of election infrastructure meet the definition of critical infrastructure, in fact and in law," Johnson said in a statement Friday. He added: "Particularly in these times, this designation is simply the right and obvious thing to do."

The determination came after months of review and despite opposition from many states worried that the designation would lead to increased federal regulation or oversight on the many decentralized and locally run voting systems across the country. It was announced on the same day a declassified U.S. intelligence report said Russian President Vladimir Putin "ordered" an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election.

The declassified report said that Russian intelligence services had "obtained and maintained access to elements of multiple U.S. state or local electoral boards." None of the systems targeted or compromised was involved in vote tallying, the report said. [.]
The designation announced Friday places responsibilities on the Homeland Security secretary to identify and prioritize those sectors, considering physical and cyber threats against them.[.]

{edit see the money graph. Hello Whistleblowers. Anyone home?}
The designation allows for information to be withheld from the public when state, local and private partners meet to discuss election infrastructure security - potentially injecting secrecy into an election process that's traditionally and expressly a transparent process. U.S. officials say such closed door conversations allow for frank discussion that would prevent bad actors from learning about vulnerabilities. DHS would also be able to grant security clearances when appropriate and provide more detailed threat information to states.

Georgia Secretary of State Brian P. Kemp, who is a member of the U.S. Election Infrastructure Cybersecurity Working Group run by DHS, is among those who have opposed the designation. Testifying in September to a House Oversight subcommittee, Kemp said more federal oversight could make systems more vulnerable and could make protected records more accessible.
When Johnson discussed the likelihood of the designation in a conference call with state officials on Thursday, Kemp called the action "a federal overreach into a sphere constitutionally reserved for the states." According to a copy of his comments released by his office, Kemp told Johnson on the phone that "this smacks of partisan politics" given the dwindling days left in the Obama administration.

Kemp has appealed to President-elect Donald Trump to investigate "failed cyberattacks" on the Georgia secretary of state's network that traced to the Department of Homeland Security, calling the department's technical explanations insufficient.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Never mind the Constitution, that quaint document which includes the Electoral College provisions. Light up the Pyre.

“after months of review” the States opposed; so bring on the campaign to discredit Russia. It was necessary for this grab.
This is my recall of a cartoon circling the ‘Net over the last 2 weeks.

Two dogs welcoming home their owner:
“We are glad you are home. The Russians pooped in the Hallway.” And on the bed.

RT is happy. It received top billing in the report..has to be good for viewership.

Obama enjoyed his gig at the WH. $100 million worth of golf ‘n surf vacations. Well played with a Nobel Peace Prize in his pocket!! Worst prez ever. In 1000years.

You can’t make any of this stuff up. This is another failed campaign against Trump and Putin which the Obama-Clinton neo-con cabal will live to regret.

Posted by: likklemore | Jan 7, 2017 9:28:04 AM | 141

I enjoy this site and insights and commentary you provide and the smart commenters who add so much. It is a much appreciated antidote to the MSM circus non-information stories. But I ask you, as a frequent reader, to please ban 'Kenny' from spewing his anti-Semitic nonsense. He is factually incorrect 99% of the time and he poisons every thread with his useless, nonilluminating tangetial attacks on Jews. Thank you in advance for at least considering this suggestion.

Posted by: Merf56 | Jan 7, 2017 9:56:44 AM | 142

@140 Young men can get awfully horny driving tanks through Latvian forests. Especially if the bad guys don't show up. It should give the nightlife of Riga a boost.

Posted by: dh | Jan 7, 2017 10:06:49 AM | 143

Thoughts: Obama is at this point merely polishing his resume (it'd be hard to give up the perks of belonging to the "club" now that he is on his way out (same as it was hard to do for Powell - who could have called the BS at the UN in 2003, instead proceeding with the deception - but then he's lose his "club" membership). And O has to put two kids through college...
The anti-Russian hysteria is likely just the punishment for interfering in Syria (the audacity of Putin! Gotta spank him!). Discrediting Trump is the icing on the cake (plus, it'd make it very hard for him to try and improve relations with those evil Russkis). So you get three for one - what's not to like. And don't forget that defense budget!
It occurred to me (shower thoughts) that the US strategy with Isis is the same as the one with Hitler - Europeans thought that Hitler would arm and then take on USSR. American capital helped H. build his war machine; for their part, European PTB watched and did not stop H. - even though there were opportunities to do so. The likely thought was that H. would defeat USSR, and then they'd defeat him. Didn't quite work out that way...
The pro-Isis, anti-Assad strategy would have allowed for Isis to take Damascus - and then the US would HAVE to go rescue Syria from Isis. Clear as mud... but then Russia intervened.
And all we got for the mountains of blood and treasure is just a buncha hysteria and a case of bad nerves!

Posted by: GoraDiva | Jan 7, 2017 11:42:50 AM | 144

How can there be a false flag if there was no flag? There was no hack, as we know from a reliable source, Craig Murray.

Circe is a troll.

Posted by: Adalbrand | Jan 7, 2017 5:14:18 AM | 130

First of all - no one's a reliable source because no one knows anything for sure one way or another!

Secondly, there was a document dump with Wikileaks; therefore the documentation had to be got somehow; and Russia was blamed for the get; therefore blaming Russia without proof for something someone else did smells of false flag and excuse to sanction Russia or worse! False flag is when someone executes a provocative or hostile act leaving false tracks or as is possible in this case: fabricating false intel that indicates an innocent party.

Third; everyone who holds a different opinion is NOT a troll. I am not your effing echo or anyone else's echo! You don't hold the absolute truth; especially after that post you wrote on Christianity being the end all word and Islam being heresy. I'm a Christian and I consider that bigoted. That was really OTT off the ledge. Accusing someone of being a troll just because their opinion is different from yours is extremely narrow minded to say the least.

Quit with the ad hom already; it's a bullying tactic.

Posted by: Circe | Jan 7, 2017 11:44:34 AM | 145

Very well done! Thank you!

Posted by: David Vicknair | Jan 7, 2017 12:49:14 PM | 146

@Circe #145:

Please accept my apologies.

But I do not detect any smell of a false flag here. To smell a false flag, you have to get a suspicion, "Why would they want to do that?" An example being MH17. Why would the Russians want to shoot down a passenger airliner? That doesn't make any sense.

In the case of the DNC and Podesta leaks however, there are no such grounds for suspicion. The motive in both cases was the completely legitimate one of transparency.

Posted by: Adalbrand | Jan 7, 2017 2:01:03 PM | 147


"But I ask you, as a frequent reader, to please ban 'Kenny' from spewing his anti-Semitic nonsense. He is factually incorrect 99% of the time"

I find it amazing how may comments like this are written on a thread like this about how "17 US government agencies" are convinced Putin "Hacked" the election without offering any proof. Yet we have people like Merf and Outraged who try to get b to impose censorship on anyone who does not believe in their chosen narrative. Its the same as "97% of climate scientists agree". Or how about Huffingtonpost's "Hillary will win with 98.5% certainty".

Not only are these people evil simply because they would muzzle free speech, they are dangerous because of their own insipid niavety.

Posted by: Kenny | Jan 7, 2017 2:34:20 PM | 148

@ Posted by: dh | Jan 7, 2017 10:06:49 AM | 143

Too true ... RAOTFLMFAO! Thank you for the hearty laugh.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 7, 2017 8:22:36 PM | 149

256 merf56

'kenny' and his ilk are most often discovered to be hasbaristas ... please see The Double Identity of an "Anti-Semitic" Commenter, if you haven't already ... we're so used to hambaconeggs we don't even notice them any longer.

thanks to guest ... was it guest77? ... for the link. miss his commentary around here.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 7, 2017 10:21:04 PM | 150

@ jfl | Jan 7, 2017 10:21:04 PM | 150

Fully concur. They blown in and hsit, vomit, urinate all over the Bar & patrons, slandering & defaming those of us whose consistent positions, efforts & history are clear and truly value & defend the integrity of the venue.

Care to join me at the bar, jfl, this round is on me :)

PS jour posts are prodigious, don't know how you're able to manage it ...

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 7, 2017 10:42:09 PM | 151

@151 outraged

thanks for the kind words ... but please keep me off the list of 'true' anything! but i'll have a sasparilla. thanks.

and i apologize for the 'prodigious' posts ... i've been castigated by a fellow moonie for being a windbag and for sickening him/her unto death ... in fact he/she seems to have committed suicide! ... and i don't want any more of that on my conscience due to my windbaggery! he/she was a leftist, too! and i was inhibiting good, leftist conversation.

and sometimes, too often, i speak up too sharply when someone pulls my coattail. in fact i find that i admire the posters who are less 'prodigious' but who give decent, thoughtful coverage to points of view not covered/beaten to death by the dominant line of any particular thread. humility is a virtue, and i have a lot to be humble about, as someone else once said. but where there's life there's hope. count no man unlucky until he's dead.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 8, 2017 6:46:32 AM | 152

@ jfl | Jan 8, 2017 6:46:32 AM | 152

Apologize for what ? ;)

Left/Right ? nah! Would classify myself a realist/humanist, passionate anti-imperialist.

Have similar concerns ... am housebound now, with too much time on my hands and periodic insomnia ... readers can always skip over posts, nothing compels anyone to read every post ... Prost! to your Sarsparilla, I'll have a Guinness.

The dead cannot cry out for justice;
it is a duty of the living to do so for them.
- Lois McMaster Bujold

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 8, 2017 7:18:35 AM | 153

Russian hacking bullshit!
Clinton has correctional officers beating n killing inmates in NY n frying them for kicks!
Washing blood from their hands before leaving work for home a hundred yards from where we lock in at night.
E. Ramos, C. Laurence, D. Jones...
All in clinton emails from 2010
When she denies knowledge
All work in great meadow CF
R comstock in NY
She frying people for kicks

Posted by: Jason Lang | Jan 8, 2017 11:52:22 PM | 154

First they did from Putin almighty and omniscient person, who singly with left hand control every aspect of Russia and with other hand bend all most powerfull countries. He never resive even tenth of such praise from Russian media. We now humorously call him Hohol's God, Imperior and His Darkest :)

Now they are promote RT as most influential channel:D
Margarita now definitely bound to gift some box of candy and bottle of expensive alcohol to Brennan and Co for such grandiose advertising compaign.

Posted by: zzz | Jan 9, 2017 2:39:14 AM | 155

No, I know that many "believe" -- however, I think that to ignore the many people who do not believe the story is dangerous ... rather like the assumption that Clinton was a shoo-in to win the election ... I see a smug "only stupid people would question the CIA report -- slam dunk -- y'know??""
When in fact there are a lot of people who (still) believe this is a partisan faux-scandal because they either believe it's all fake or that the Russians hacked but it didn't change the election result ...

Eventually, it may gain traction ... I remember folks who claimed to have believed that Bush had an "open mind" about Saddam and demanded incontrovertible proof before "deciding" that invading Iraq was the right thing to do. That "march to war" took 8 months -- August to March -- eventually even those who initially felt the idea was ridiculous came to believe "there had to be something to it"

This could be a fulcrum issue -- if -- the anti-Trump GOP decide to turn on and rid itself of Trump in a "march to war" ... Pence is a neocon, Trump is not.

I certainly believe that "all true blue Democrats" at least publicly "believe" the report because anyone who doesn't is a Putin-loving Russian sympathizer ... my "dog in the race" is preventing war and trying to gauge how likely the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party will **finally** be unseated ... making Clinton "Putin's victim" is blame deferral ... Getting the vestiges of "Obama's army" to side with the incumbent DNC team in the face of the "existential crisis" of Trump is a ploy to make "idealism" and "change" unwise because crisis.... another coalition of anti-Trump GOP, traditional neocons, and true-blue-security state worshiping (converted when Clinton lost) democrats could successfully agitate to for war ... if they can just "turn" enough Trump voters.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jan 10, 2017 1:10:07 PM | 156

oh, I've also seen claims that many Trump voters "now" regret their vote ... this happened after Brexit, similar claims ... a month or two later there was a poll that showed a smallish percentage did (after all they were lied to) ... The claims about "Trum voters" are being made as if FACT but no links or polls are provided ... again, there may be some percentage who regret ... but -- as with Brexit -- what is the significance ... there will be no do-over.
Whether those who "regret" would like to see Trump "out" and/or Pence as replacement as far as I can tell hasn't been asked

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Jan 10, 2017 1:25:21 PM | 157

@156, 157 suzy

admire your crystal balling. i think that most people are pretty fluid at this point and waiting to see some action on the part of tee-rump. it has the potential to go either way. i think the tendency, riding on top of the residual - and perhaps increasing, due to their inability to learn to lose - disgust with the dnc/obama/clinton machine, is to hope - there is really no reason to hope - that tee-rump will somehow effect change that they can notice - geopolitically, for instance. but that can (will?) be dashed in an instant by tee-rump's 'team'.

and if/when hopes are dashed, i think the republicrat-demoblican model will be done for, whether americans admit it or not, and that our only hope will be to organize an alternative, bottom up.

forget the people presently in ac/dc, we'll only be electrocuted there, fried to a frazzle, 'either' way. i hope there is fluidity enough for that re-organization to occur.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 10, 2017 5:50:32 PM | 158

Hatred against Trump wont stop,

Sources: Trump engaged in perverted sex in Russia
"Among the unverifiable claims, President-elect Trump is accused of participating in extremely graphic sexual fetishism in the Moscow Ritz-Carlton."

Blatant lies now. Sickening.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 11, 2017 3:03:42 AM | 159

@159 noname

they've been treated on the open thread ... seems to be great embarrassment to the 'professionals' who put their thumb prints on it.

Posted by: jfl | Jan 11, 2017 3:14:01 AM | 160

even Trump now admits that the Russian government was guilty of hacking the mmoronic bunch of dead-enders.

Posted by: fuster | Jan 11, 2017 1:33:47 PM | 161

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