Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 18, 2016

Sabotage Of East-Aleppo Evacuation Is Part Of A Plan

Update (Dec 19, 0:00 EST):

  • The culprits of the bus burning were "rebels" from Ahrar al-Sham and Jund al Aqsa. Both are favorites of the CIA and Turkey and in Idleb governate aligned with and under the military command of al-Qaeda.
  • After Turkey put heavy pressure on the groups it somewhat controls the evacuation deal is, for now, back on. The first exchange bus run occurrs right now. I expect a new sabotage attempt to jeopardize the deal.
  • Turkish media claim that Shia inhabitants of Fu'a and Kafraya burned the buses or that it is unknown who did it. Video and pictures proudly posted by the Takfiris themselves show that these radical Sunnis did it.

End-Update - original post follows:

The removal of defeated al-Qaeda fighters and their families from east-Aleppo has been on and off for several days now.

The agreement between Turkey and Russia on which the evacuation is based stipulates the parallel evacuation of wounded people from the al-Qaeda besieged Shiite village Fu'a and Kafraya in Idleb province. Note that neither the U.S. nor the (partisan) UN were involved in these negotiations.

The process was interrupted on Friday after al-Qaeda fighters in east-Aleppo opened fire on evacuating civilians. In parallel buses moving into Fu'a and Kafraya to evacuate the wounded were held up by al-Qaeda aligned groups in the area. Opposition claims that Hizbullah fighters was killing people that were evacuating from east-Aleppo were, according to a BBC producer, lies.

The agreement and evacuations were put on again and proceeded this morning after some new negotiations with unknown additional terms. The movements were to take place in strict parallel. Any move out of east-Aleppo on the government provided public buses would only happen at the very same moment that the wounded would move out of Fu'a and Kafraya on similar buses.

Today's evacuations were again sabotaged by al-Qaeda forces:

Several buses en route to evacuate the sick and injured from two government-held villages in Syria's Idlib province have been burned by rebels.

The convoy was travelling to Foah and Kefraya, besieged by rebel fighters.

Pro-government forces are demanding people be allowed to leave the mainly Shia villages in order for the evacuation of east Aleppo to restart.

Thousands of people are waiting to leave in desperate conditions, reports say.

Al-Qaeda gangs themselves provided video of the bus burning. The bus drivers were likely murdered which pretty much guarantees that no further buses will come or go.

I doubt that this is a solely al-Qaeda induced incident. It seems to me that the certain U.S. forces (aka the CIA) are trying to prolong the removal of al-Qaeda from east-Aleppo for their own purpose.

Just yesterday even the Washington Post (again) reported on the years long collusion between the CIA and al-Qaeda in Syria:

The CIA meanwhile continued to push a program that targeted Russia and its Syrian and Iranian allies — and helped shield Jabhat al-Nusra.

There are several "western" groups that want to keep the evacuation stalled to continue their anti-Syrian, anti-Russian and anti-Iran agenda.

The U.S. administration is miffed that it was kept out of the recent negotiations. It wants to demonstrate that any negotiations without its participation will not have any positive result.

The hundreds of "last video from Aleppo" of "Bana" and other propaganda creatures claiming to be there look like a highly coordinated Information Warfare campaign. The "Stand with Aleppo" campaign in the U.S. was started and is propelled by a Democratic party operative who is also CEO of a public relations company and "strategic affairs consultant" in Chicago, Becky Carroll. Its aim is to escalated the situation in Syria.

Meanwhile members of the Syrian opposition, or rather their "western" controllers in the CIA, are now emphasizing Iran, not Russia, as alleged spoiler in Syria. They claim, without any evidence, that Iran or its operatives held up the evacuations. This is part of a plan to preempt announced Trump policies of negotiating an end of the Syria conflict.

The French president Hollande, despised by his people and with an approval rating between 4 and 6%, is calling for another UN Security Council vote over east-Aleppo. Such a vote, demanding UN observers for the evacuation, is intended to hold it up. Observers would need days to be in place and would lack any reasonable protection. Hollande also wants to provide food to the non-existing "civilians" in east-Aleppo while Reuters provides video showing that al-Qaeda and allies in east-Aleppo have horded enough food for years. The idea behind the UNSC resolution is to let it fail and to then go to the UN General Assembly which, under the right pressure, might allow a war by any nation against Syria.

Earlier Hollande ordered the lights at the Eiffel tower to be turned off to mourn the liberation of Aleppo from Takfiris and to make it look like the flag of his defeated al-Qaeda friends. His sponsors in Qatar and Saudi Arabia will reward his principled stand.

With the burning of the buses the evacuation agreement is dead and unlikely to be revived.

The Syrian army should tell al-Qaeda in Aleppo that there will be no longer be any ceasefire. It must make clear that they will now either be interned or killed. The final fighting should be over in a day or two. Meanwhile as much air support as possible should be provided to the defenders at Fu'a and Kafraya.

The Russian military learned the hard way in Grozny that any ceasefire or pause you give to a mostly defeated enemy only helps the enemy and will, in the end, cost more lives on both sides.

Putin and Lavrov have fallen for various negotiation scams with the U.S. that were designed to only hold back attacks on al-Qaeda and allies so that those forces could reorganize and resupply for renewed attacks on government held areas. Kerry's promises to separate "moderates" from al-Qaeda in Syria was repeated over months until he finally claimed that the groups were too "marbled" to be taken apart. U.S. military attacks on Syrian government forces were launched to sabotage any agreement. Similar deceiving delaying tactics are now evident with the negotiated evacuation of east-Aleppo.

Meanwhile the next al-Qaeda stronghold to be attacked by government forces in the governate and city of Idleb can be prepared for defense. With the Syrian army and its allies still busy in Aleppo new arms supplies can arrive in Idleb and new formations can be organized. The British government even sends more troops to train "moderate" al-Qaeda allies.

It is time to end such sorry play. Clean up Aleppo already. Hollande, Samantha Power and other stooges will howl anyway - no matter how the final scene is done.

Posted by b on December 18, 2016 at 11:56 AM | Permalink

Comments
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I just caught tbe BBC story from Google News. It's interesting that a bit of the truth about our allies in Syria got out. But they still had to throw in the picture of the wounded child. And there's a link to a story about the west gathering war cimes evidence. So the net result is still a biased story, BBC style.

Posted by: Curtis | Dec 18, 2016 12:06:31 PM | 1

@ b

The workers at the Eiffel Tower were on strike and Hollande's deceit is to show solidarity with E Aleppo. Too bad, he can't get millions from the GCC to run his Presidential campaign - no one wants him.

Posted by: Yul | Dec 18, 2016 12:08:10 PM | 2

Spot-on!

Posted by: From The Hague | Dec 18, 2016 12:13:36 PM | 3

thanks b... good summation of the dynamics at work.. it's unfortunate that the side supplying arms to their 'moderates' continues to soldier on with an overly zealous propaganda campaign... i hope samantha powers rots in hell for all the bullshite she willingly offers up.. and, i hope there is a special place in hell for those first class assholes in britian who continue to add fuel to a fire.. they can do that in hell too..

Posted by: james | Dec 18, 2016 12:14:38 PM | 4

PS. For more classic propaganda, Pelley on 60 Minutes tonight interviews "Syrian Civil Defense."

Posted by: Curtis | Dec 18, 2016 12:24:42 PM | 5

relevant to britians involvement.... quote from pmr9 @ sst who is in turn quoting alastair cooke here..

"The war in Syria has had, it seems, a hugely corrosive effect on services such as CIA and MI6. Firstly, there was the tension of contradiction: the deceit to be maintained of ostensibly fighting terrorism, while secretly supporting such bloody forces (in order to weaken President Bashar al-Assad and subsequently Russia).
Secondly, that of pretending to be pursuing a “principled” policy of off-shored “identity politics” (Sunnis as victims), while quietly accepting – and becoming dependent on – the “off-balance sheet” subventions flowing from the very patrons of such forces (shades of Clinton Foundation pay-to-play ethos). And thirdly, by becoming the echo chamber of claims, however improbable, however false, thrown up by sundry armed movements and their paymasters – with the intent to force the hand of Western military intervention.

The war in Syria has had, it seems, a hugely corrosive effect on services such as CIA and MI6. Firstly, there was the tension of contradiction: the deceit to be maintained of ostensibly fighting terrorism, while secretly supporting such bloody forces (in order to weaken President Bashar al-Assad and subsequently Russia)."

Posted by: james | Dec 18, 2016 12:26:36 PM | 6

Apparently buses leaving Aleppo weren't inspected.

"Fadi Ismael said that one of the most important terms that should have been mentioned in the evacuation agreement was checking the buses, but there was no such term in the agreement.

He further added that absence of such term paved the way for the militants to carry their weapons and a large volume of their secret documents with them during the evacuation of the Eastern districts of Aleppo.

Ismael went on to say that only the International Red Cross and the Syrian Arab Red Crescent were allowed to enter Eastern neighborhoods of Aleppo and accompany the buses, adding that the terrorists used this good opportunity to smuggle their weapon, documents, communication systems and even the captives out of Aleppo city.

From FARS so make of it what you will..

http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13950928000462

Posted by: dh | Dec 18, 2016 12:43:08 PM | 7

This post really clarifies the Aleppo confusion of the last few days. I was not aware of the “parallel” aspects of the E Aleppo/Fu’a evacuations. I don’t know that the MSM have reported that part of the arrangement, which is obviously vital to understanding what is going on.

As usual, b offers some fascinating speculation about why what is happening is happening, and, of course, the speculation is that USG is totally responsible. I love the consistency of the meme that there is only one monster in the world. Those fucking Americans are the source of all evil, even in Fu’a where the Americans had nothing to do with the “agreement.”

But this line is probably the most insightful I have seen written on Syria:
“. . . any ceasefire or pause you give to a mostly defeated enemy only helps the enemy and will, in the end, cost more lives on both sides.”

I think this should be called the “Hiroshima Rule.” Or the “Tokyo Rule.” Or the “Dresden Rule.” By god, when Murika had the Nip and Nazi rats cornered, they burned them, nuked them . . . whatever, just make good and fucking sure they’re dead and will never do any more damage. And the Russians did the same: When they finally backed the Nazi scum into the corner, they butchered them by the tens of thousands and filled deep craters with the bodies. You didn’t see any green buses transporting defeated Nazis from Normandy to Berlin so they could continue to fight. You didn’t see green buses transporting 100,000 civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki to a safe place before the cities were destroyed. No, siree – the Great Generation knew how to fight a war.

In contrast, how many times in the last 18 months have I thought to m’self: WTF are they doing letting those head-choppers go free? Agreement after agreement after agreement, just when SAA is ready to wipe up, Putin/Assad bring in the busses and cart the enemy to safe havens – WITH THEIR FUCKING WEAPONS!! And then there is Assad’s rolling amnesty that has, as far as I can see, been on the table for all of the rebels since 2014. It says: “OK, you have butchered and gassed civilians long enough. Lay down your weapons, go on home and we’ll just call it even.”

What kind of a war is this? How many Syrians – both combatants and civilians – down the road die because rebels and their weapons are allowed to escape to safe places? I am afraid b is too blinded by his own biases to see the truth here, which is that Assad/Putin are stupid. For instance, in this piece b ignores Putin/Assad stupidity and blames their stupidity on the Americans: “Putin and Lavrov have fallen for various negotiation scams with the U.S.”

Well, sorry, dude, you can’t blame Barry/Kerry because Putin/Lavrov are serial morons. But I agree, if Barry/Kerry have been intentionally prolonging this war with these “peace negotiations” and “ceasefires,” then there is a real problem. And there is a way to rectify that problem: All Assad/Putin have to do is to assert Syrian sovereignty and tell the US (and Turkey) to get the fuck out of Syria. If the USG is doing more to prolong the war than to end it, why haven’t Assad/Putin taken that obvious step? Morons. maybe, at the expense of the Syrian people.

Posted by: Denis | Dec 18, 2016 1:04:27 PM | 8

The US, the UK, France, the UE, NATO, Saudi Arabia, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Israel, Mossad, the CIA, BBC, CNN, Reuters, the NYT and so on this is the whole US led coalition that working to destroy Syria. Recently ISIS is attacking the Syrian Army near Palmyra. There are thousands of bearded fighters. They are from Raqqa and Mosul and this once again proves that ISIS is run by Mossad/CIA agents.

Posted by: ilikefakenews | Dec 18, 2016 1:06:57 PM | 9

Posted by: dh | Dec 18, 2016 12:43:08 PM | 7

Try Press TV they are usually reliable in their news.

Buses attacked, burned en route to Foua and Kefraya

According to a report by Syrian TV on Sunday, several buses, which were supposed to evacuate ill and injured people from the besieged towns of Foua and Kefraya were attacked and some of them burned, Reuters reported.

However, other buses and Red Crescent vehicles reached the entrance to the villages

Posted by: somebody | Dec 18, 2016 1:07:45 PM | 10

@10 Buses were burned on the way to Foua and Kefraya but the Fars article is referring to buses leaving Aleppo with documents and captives. I don't see anything in the Press TV article to refute that.

Posted by: dh | Dec 18, 2016 1:16:51 PM | 11

@ Denis | Dec 18, 2016 1:04:27 PM | 8

Before you go off proving what a bad-ass you are, and I haven't a doubt you could remove all doubt on that score. Did you even stop to think even once, that those who you disparage so grievously with your opinion, President Putin and FM Lavrov are constrained by civilisation NOT to take unnecessary risks with civilian lives. Betcha didn't even think at all, but that is normal for your runt of the litter out to prove their bravery. Please in future either give your childish opinion a miss or find a better way to express yourself - you are doing yourself no favours as is.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Dec 18, 2016 1:22:44 PM | 12

Well I have to half agree with Denis above. My caveat is that the situation in Syria is more complex than WWII. It is not total war in fact the sides are struggling to keep it from escalating from a low intensity proxy conflict to total war. This has been ongoing since at least Chechnya and Serbia. Second Chechnya war can been as a turnaround. 2006 Lebanon and then 2008 Georgia showed the limits of Globalist power.

http://www.alternet.org/story/112457/that_was_no_small_war_in_georgia_--_it_was_the_beginning_of_the_end_of_the_american_empire

So the patience has been paying off. Globalist are largely fought to a standstill and we have not all been burned up or had the power turned off. Just a few more weeks and the Globalists will largely be out of power.

Posted by: Phodges | Dec 18, 2016 1:24:08 PM | 13

****WARNING**** puke alert

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia – U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry has met with Saudi King Salman in what likely will be his last visit as America's top diplomat.

Kerry met with the king and other royalty Sunday at a palace in Riyadh, the Saudi capital.

The state-run Saudi Press Agency said the two discussed regional issues. Ahead of the trip, the State Department said Kerry would discuss the war in Yemen and stalled peace efforts to end the conflict.

Yemen's war began when Shiite rebels and their allies seized Yemen's capital, Sanaa, in September 2014.


Wonder if Mr. Secretary will hang around to watch the Friday beheadings?

Posted by: ALberto | Dec 18, 2016 1:35:10 PM | 14

Posted by: dh | Dec 18, 2016 1:16:51 PM | 11

Yes, Press TV does not mention it.

The captive part is highly unlikely with all the media filming. I think it is safe to say that they don't get frisked. The Guardian says "rebels" are allowed to bear small arms.

Fars News is considered close to the Revolutionary Guard. I guess they are not happy that "rebels" live to fight another day. Though - another rumour - Turkey might reuse them to fight against the YPG and have negotiated a safe zone for them along their border.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 18, 2016 1:35:49 PM | 15

Well, as long as the evacuation and settling Aleppo goes on, Syrian army is tied up to continue liberating about.
US/CIA/AQ would be and are sabotaging those efforts as much as they can, so they can actually rethink positions and regroup.
Mentioning Idlib already signals the next spot.

Russian diplomacy is many classes far above the reach for Kerry and the rest of the current nitwits in the current administration, probably in the future one as well sitting all over UN and the other bodies, but I am afraid that in the dirty and under the table fight current administration might take gloves off.

Why is that? Because there is nothing to lose and everything they already touched they messed up. Is actually current administration running to the open conflict with Russia and even China before? Question is if understanding of the "hybrid" is that it means not the war with everybody.

Posted by: laserlurk | Dec 18, 2016 1:38:54 PM | 16

Thanks James.. I am a fan of Alastair Cooke

Maytham956 adds on twitter that the drivers of the bus were burned with the bus. That pro-revo ppl are celebrating the burning of buses and these men all other twitters make me want to shut down twitter NOW!

Posted by: Mina | Dec 18, 2016 1:52:50 PM | 17

The French gov radio narrative is that "evacuation in Aleppo at standstill... negociations are continuing between the Shiite militias and the rebels".

no further explanation, but it sums up nicely the new trends of the propaganda. they are definitely to look at when one wants to know what is the new Qatari script

Posted by: Mina | Dec 18, 2016 2:03:13 PM | 18

How come the convoy with the buses were not protected?

Posted by: c | Dec 18, 2016 2:10:32 PM | 19

@b

Another consequence of the tedious stalling in Aleppo, besides giving the terrorists in Idlib province more time to strengthen their defences, is that in the meantime Turkey takes over Al Bab and the US-led Kurdish forces close in on Raqqah.

As a matter of fact if one studies the most recent advances made by the Kurdish forces in east Syria towards Al-Thawrah, it seems they try to cut the prospect of future liberation of Raqqah by the SAA and it's allies.

Posted by: redrooster | Dec 18, 2016 2:19:42 PM | 20

@laserlurk

Excellent comments. Hussein Obomo, John Kerry, Samantha Power intends to squeeze every ounce of bloods from the Syrians before leaving office.

@c

How come the convoy with the buses were not protected?
These buses were in terrorists controlled areas.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 18, 2016 2:21:18 PM | 21

The Russian military learned the hard way in Grozny that any ceasefire or pause you give to a mostly defeated enemy only helps the enemy and will, in the end, cost more lives on both sides.

The Russian military may have learned this, but their leader has not:

Putin Calls Full Ceasefire ‘Next Step’ for Normalization in Syria

A full ceasefire is the next step for normalizing the situation in Syria after the liberation of Aleppo, Russian President Vladimir Putin said after talks with Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on Friday....

"The next stage is reaching agreements on a full ceasefire in entire Syria," the Russian leader stressed.


^ B thought it best to omit this.

Posted by: Mark | Dec 18, 2016 2:45:42 PM | 22

I wonder why it's necessary to continue with the propaganda that Fateh-al Sham is the only or even the largest group leaving Aleppo. They certainly are the major presence in Idlib province but that is and will be another story.

I also wondered why the Axes forces were successful this time after years of failure to take east Aleppo. The SAA, Iranian, Iraqi, Afghan and Hezbollah forces with plenty of air power always failed to deliver until now, what changed? I read twice in early local reports about the offensive that Russian troops were included in the forces attacking and they weren't described as advisors or spotters just troops.

I wonder if the Axis forces will turn to Idlib first or try to retake Palmira from the IS who sent the Russian special forces garrisoned there and everyone else fleeing.

Posted by: wayoutwest | Dec 18, 2016 2:55:09 PM | 23

I wonder why it's necessary to continue with the propaganda that Fateh-al Sham is the only or even the largest group leaving Aleppo. They certainly are the major presence in Idlib province but that is and will be another story.

I also wondered why the Axes forces were successful this time after years of failure to take east Aleppo. The SAA, Iranian, Iraqi, Afghan and Hezbollah forces with plenty of air power always failed to deliver until now, what changed? I read twice in early local reports about the offensive that Russian troops were included in the forces attacking and they weren't described as advisors or spotters just troops.

I wonder if the Axis forces will turn to Idlib first or try to retake Palmira from the IS who sent the Russian special forces garrisoned there and everyone else fleeing.

Posted by: wayoutwest | Dec 18, 2016 2:55:15 PM | 24

According to Stratfor the US have withdrawn from Euphrates Shield.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 18, 2016 2:55:18 PM | 25

Denis | Dec 18, 2016 1:04:27 PM | 8
" Those fucking Americans are the source of all evil. . ."

Well, durn. I thought I was being facetious, but McCain has just
backed me up on that "source of all evil" snark.

Here's a quote form McCain's end-of-the-world-order interview on
Jake Tapper's "State of the Nation":

"When America doesn't lead, a lot of other bad people do," he added.

The "other" says it all. Durn, I guess I'm going to have to get
in line with this blog's main theme: America sucks. I hope you
all will welcome me to the fold.

T-bear, we good?

Posted by: Denis | Dec 18, 2016 2:59:56 PM | 26

Denis, ref "“OK, you have butchered and gassed civilians long enough. Lay down your weapons, go on home and we’ll just call it even.”"

You have to take into account the fact that it is still overwhelmingly a tribal society, apart from a 5% super-urbane elite which studied abroad or belong to the higher families. That's the sad truth of Arab societies. And this implies that among the guys who benefitted from the amnesty, those who have really committed the most horrible crimes will find someone waiting for them. A cousin, a father, a brother of the victim.

Posted by: Mina | Dec 18, 2016 3:03:58 PM | 27

Duplicitous West.
No surprise.
Back stabbers.

Posted by: AriusArmenian | Dec 18, 2016 3:17:59 PM | 29

Yesterday David Milliband Head of the US Charity International Rescue Committee said “And that is the only way to describe this because people are fleeing from appalling bombardment, and house-to-house murder that’s being documented by the UN, and they don’t know if it’s going to follow them from Aleppo to Idlib.”
This cartoon appeared in the Observer https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2016/dec/18/assad-no-peace-for-the-wicked-cartoon#comments Fortunately it looks like the comments section are on to them.

Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 18, 2016 3:24:56 PM | 30

I seriously doubt that Putin and Lavrov are 'taken in' by the promises of the West/NATO. Instead, they seek to neutralize the hostile and vastly more numerous and powerful forces of the West through dialog and by allowing the false promises of the West to be shown to the world time and time again. The more time the West promises something and doesn't deliver, the more the rest of the world from the fringes of the EU to the non-aligned nations learn to be wary. It's not that Putin is a tactical genius, it's just that he takes the long view and uses reason while the leaders of the US and NATO look for short-term triumphs and make knee-jerk reactions to 'win' a self-instigated propaganda war.

The motto of the US may be, "What we can't dominate, we must destroy." The US will continue trying to destroy any country that tries to be neutral or anti-US hegemony, so it's a dangerous game to maneuver to protect the interest's of one's country and its allies. I believe Putin's strategy is to simultaneously appear agreeable (open to negotiation and agreement) and dangerous (able to quickly wrong-foot the US through unilateral action).

Posted by: WorldBLee | Dec 18, 2016 3:41:36 PM | 31

"It is time to end such sorry play. Clean up Aleppo already. Hollande, Samantha Power and other stooges will howl anyway - no matter how the final scene is done."
Yes, I agree, there ist no other solution.

Posted by: Pnyx | Dec 18, 2016 3:45:58 PM | 32

The Angry Arab has the claim of responsibility for the firing of the buses. I didn't read all the rather opaquely worded text in Arabic before posting, but I'm willing to take As'ad Abu Khalil's word for it. I'll read it all if anyone wants it.

The claim is from a group calling itself Saraya al-Tawhid (Palaces of Unicity). The clue is in the word tawhid, which shows that they're a branch of the jihadis, tawhid being their watch-word.

Posted by: Laguerre | Dec 18, 2016 4:12:08 PM | 33

@ Denis | Dec 18, 2016 2:59:56 PM | 27

Suppose so. Mistook your rant for something from what a redneck ignorant dumb yank might come up with. Your message gets lost in a rabid froth but that seems the preferred style now.

Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Dec 18, 2016 4:21:33 PM | 34

Denis @ 8 says:

What kind of a war is this

you should ask our brave men and women in uniform this question. all of those enlistees who joined the great atrocity. unprecedented numbers of them now with broken souls and blood-splattered nightmares, unable to navigate the national frontlines of uncare and unemployment, and instead, withholding any assent, blowing their fucking brains out.
yeah, what kinda war is it when suicides outnumber combat deaths?

Posted by: john | Dec 18, 2016 4:41:50 PM | 35

Denis,
think back to 1982, when Assad senior took serious vengeance on the Muslim Brotherhood for the terrible things they did to the Syrian state. Before he died, I am sure he said to his son that he made a mistake. All he did was to foster burning resentment. His son is going out of his way to keep the Syrian people on his side. It costs more blood in the short term, but Assad is hoping that in the longer term, that this will be a complete victory over the Muslim Brotherhood, without any come-backs twenty or thirty years down the road. And also Assad knows that the perfidious MSM will blow out of proportion any blood-letting. The SAA is keeping its cool, playing the long game - and I say that is the right strategy.

Posted by: aniteleya | Dec 18, 2016 4:59:21 PM | 36

@ mina.. thanks for your participation here too!

@ 27... mccain is a first class warmongering jackass.. i am always happy to give a response to his ideology too..

the usa needs to unlearn it's mindset of thinking it is a savior to the rest of the world.. it isn't.. in fact, all it fucking does is make life a lot worse for the planet and many people on the planet.. all there leadership is leading the planet off a fucking cliff... most folks, except a few die hard neo cons and americans believe the shit mccain spews... get out in the real fucking world dude..

Posted by: james | Dec 18, 2016 5:27:34 PM | 37

@37 aniteleya - thanks for this perspective. It rings true.

In so much discordance, here and everywhere, it rings true.

Posted by: Grieved | Dec 18, 2016 5:33:33 PM | 38

@b, 'The agreement between Turkey and Russia on which the evacuation is based ...'

@21 redrooster, 'in the meantime Turkey takes over Al Bab and the US-led Kurdish forces close in on Raqqah'

turkey takes another 2 steps back.

@8, '... fucking Americans are the source of all evil ...'

yeah. it seems. have you another alternative?

@32 wbl, 'What we can't dominate, we must destroy.'

that's it. and sometimes, as in Libya and to great extent Syria as well, 'What we can dominate, we'll destroy anyway.'

@36 john, 'yeah, what kinda war is it when suicides outnumber combat deaths?'

yes indeed. the masters of war have never cared and never will. perhaps they'll create a medal for suicide. that's how they launder all their other war crimes.

the people who've run the us government in this millennium are unquestionably war criminals. no different from the German nazis. and more of the same as far as they eye can see.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 18, 2016 5:45:24 PM | 39

interesting post and link from jack smith on the other thread ...

Posted by: jfl | Dec 18, 2016 6:20:04 PM | 40

@ aniteleya | 37

Denis,
think back to 1982, when Assad senior took serious vengeance on the Muslim Brotherhood for the terrible things they did to the Syrian state. Before he died, I am sure he said to his son that he made a mistake. All he did was to foster burning resentment. His son is going out of his way to keep the Syrian people on his side. It costs more blood in the short term, but Assad is hoping that in the longer term, that this will be a complete victory over the Muslim Brotherhood, without any come-backs twenty or thirty years down the road. And also Assad knows that the perfidious MSM will blow out of proportion any blood-letting. The SAA is keeping its cool, playing the long game - and I say that is the right strategy.

From where did you get an idea it was Hafez mistake to quickly suppress MB? It was definitely the right thing to do. Also I dont agree there is less resentment now. Its actually more, WAY more resentment today against Assad than ever were against Hafez. Its the difference between few thousands of angered MBs and their relatives vs HUNDREDS of thousands today. If you listen to interviews of Syrians, even among Assad's supporters there is one common theme - Assad is too soft. They dont blame him per se for the war, but they nostalgically remember Hafez and say he would have suppressed terrorists in the bud and prevented destruction of Syrian state and the deaths of hundreds thousands of civilians.

Whether this sentiment is right or wrong is another question, I think it might have been the right way to go, however situation is different now. The whole Western World + Gulf monarchies + Israel + Turkey were hellbent on either make Syria a client state or destroy it. The ballgame is different than it was in 1982. So tough stance would only have worked if Assad had complete control over borders to prevent influx of jihadis, arms and funding. And since he doesnt control the borders, then Syria is neck deep in the blood regardless which way he chooses to go. Peaceniks say softer is better, hardliners say you have to be tough on terrorists - and we can only speculate which way would have turned up for the better.

In recent history, Russia quickly suppressed insurgents in Caucasus, Iran did the same with kurds, MKO and Baluchis, and IMO its a better way than poosyfooting, especially long term. Then again we see how Erdogan is trying to be tough with kurds and doing all the things wrong. Instead of integrating them into society, he is pretty much pushing them into daily bombings and Kurdistan.

Posted by: Harry | Dec 18, 2016 6:29:56 PM | 41

This negotiation to try and get civilians out of the way in the two besieged towns was a nice try. The treachery shown by the CIA controlled terrorists once again gives evidence that there will be little negotiation or truce honored. The facts on the ground in this most recent double cross should be a final wake up. Best to exterminate any and all Nusra operatives in east Aleppo as a clear signal as to what happens when the Syrian allies are f**ked with.

Posted by: BRF | Dec 18, 2016 6:43:01 PM | 42

Note to Hoarsewhisper – check the tag-line before
reading this comment, then don’t read it. Regards, Denis

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mina | Dec 18, 2016 3:03:58 PM | 28
You have to take into account the fact that it is still
overwhelmingly a tribal society,

There must be such an enormous gap in the Americans’ view of life
and Syrians’ – how could any of us hope to understand what is going on,
how could Syrians hope to understand why we don’t understand? The
closest Americans come to "tribalism" is the Hatfields and McCoys,
which gets even deadlier than racism.

Of course, it’s the vicious wahhabis and salafists who are trying the
hardest to keep that cultural gap as wide as possible. When these
cultures merge it seems to be the Muslim mores and norms that get
flushed away with Hollywood and NFL and Kardashian mindless bullshit.
When I see these kids leaving Aleppo wearing NY Yankees ball caps,
I shudder a little.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jason | Dec 18, 2016 3:15:20 PM | 29

That story about 14 “NATO officers” being captured in E. Aleppo is
picking up speed on the internet. The link says “NATO” but the
stories are saying “Coalition”

Interesting that it lists the officers by name, including
these two.

David Scott Winer – USA
David Shlomo Aram – Israel

The others are from Turkey, Qatar, Saudi, Jordan, Morocco.
A Syrian MP published the names on his FB page.

Other reports give the nationalities as American, French, British,
German, Israeli, Turkish, Saudi, Moroccan, and Qatari. And calls
them “NATO officers.” Ha, ha, ha . . . Morocco is now NATO?

This smells funny. I’d probably believe the CIA before I’d
believe a lot of this contradictory crap on the internet. I guess
if it came from an MP, at least that fact could be verified.

And I wonder what happened to those 30 CIA and Mossad agents
the Russians were supposed to have bonked with a bomb on the
top of some mountain outside of Der Ezzar in Sep|2016 about the
time USG took out a bunch of SAA troops.

Never heard another word about that. Certainly no big diplomatic
blow-up. You’ve got RuF killing a bunch of CIA/Mossad rodents
in a bunker where the USG killed a bunch of SAA troops and
the story goes dark immediately. Don’t think so.

I tend to doubt a lot of what I don’t believe, and I quit
believing everything a long time ago.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jfl | Dec 18, 2016 5:45:24 PM | 40

@8, '... fucking Americans are the source of all evil ...'
yeah. it seems. have you another alternative?

I’m tryin’ to come up with something, man. Lemme’ have
another look; it’s gotta’ be down there somewhere.

I’d probably say that the source of all evil is a lot
broader than Americans. It’s probably something like
capitalism, and America is just s sub-set of that.

I see zionism as the source of 50% of the evil in the ME
and Muslim sectarianism as the source of the other 50%.
Americans were definitely not the source of evil such
as James Foley’s decapitation. That was pure Muslim evil.
No, USG is not the source of Muslim evil, but USG tries to
play off of it to its own advantage, which is just as evil.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Harry | Dec 18, 2016 6:29:56 PM | 42

Don’t forget bad-boy Josip Tito, who held the Yugoslav Federation
together for 50 years by kicking the poop out of dissidents, and,
in retrospect, saved untold numbers of lives with his heavy
hand. Tito was not a big 1st amendment sort of guy.

There are large parts of the world that can’t handle the 1st Amendment,
or the 4th, or the 5th. Syria is one. Somalia. Israel. China. Texas &
Oklahoma. It's a long list, actually.

In places such as these, a real leader has just gotta’ kick ass and
hope for the best, and if that doesn’t work, kick some more. They’ll
come around eventually. The same attitude worked like a charm in holding
down insurrection of blacks in the American slave-south for 300 years,
and the Jim Crow south for 100 years.

Posted by: Denis | Dec 18, 2016 7:20:14 PM | 43

If I did not know better I would say that what b describes are scenes from Ionesco theater of absurd with elements of Roman theater where actors are being killed if required by play script.
.
It resembles war between reason and insanity and unfortunately and surprisingly Russians do not know how to counteract the western global brainwashing psyop. Did they not learned from similar campaign against Russia by Goebels during WWII including stories of Russians eating pure German race infants.

The RT remains subdued under barrage of western fabrications tabloid fake news stories they quote scared for being accused of bias for Kremlin under vicious intimidation of Obama regime and EU puppet regimes and potato republics making their broadcast biased toward the western lies since they cannot keep up with all the western lies and prepare true on the ground stories to repudiate claims that often amount to denying that sun has risen over Aleppo today according to western astronomers.

How you counter insanity?

What is appalling as well is absolute abdication of responsibility and ethics of the western academia and intellectual class in the EU who push what amounts to repugnant anti intellectualism even denying physical laws something that they long accused American political class of.

What also is strange and short sighted is that China still seems to believe that they can stay behind their wall with some measured regional economic expansion and they will be left alone by american neocons.
They will not. It is time to Russia and China stand firmly together and Put down this neocon beast before nukes start flying.
And while supportive I do not see them forcefull enough to bleed neon noses. Even Trump if he meant what he said about deal based international system of cooperation needs to put down neocons in his own administration

We will see Monday if he is removed from power by neocons and witch Hillary.


Posted by: Kalen | Dec 18, 2016 7:21:38 PM | 44

Denis @8

"there is a way to rectify that problem: All Assad/Putin have to do is to assert Syrian sovereignty and tell the US (and Turkey) to get the fuck out of Syria. If the USG is doing more to prolong the war than to end it, why haven’t Assad/Putin taken that obvious step? Morons. maybe, at the expense of the Syrian people."

You have 80 odd planes, a dozen or so SAMs, 3000 troops, and several badly outgunned ships at your immediate command.

After you've informed your opponents and their vastly superior numbers to gtfo, what's your next move when they say, "no"?

Posted by: Wwinsti | Dec 18, 2016 7:28:51 PM | 45

@45 Denis would probably double down on the F word.

Posted by: dh | Dec 18, 2016 7:31:46 PM | 46

WTF is this? Did Russians fall again for the monitoring shit?
https://www.rt.com/news/370691-russia-aleppo-resolution-monitors/

Posted by: Kalen | Dec 18, 2016 7:42:13 PM | 47

My 2017 predictions.
The Turkish government, lead by the mad man Erdogan is finally starting paying for its crime in Syria by suffering from a weekly terrorist attack directly at the same entities supposed to ensure security: The police and the army. Erdogan's promises of protecting the country are now empty words. He is rushing to ensure that his rule will last until 2019, but his end is very close. After Erdogan is eliminated, Turkey will return to what it was in 2009, a secular democracy that will improve the relation with the Kurds.
Erdogan and Davutoglu will be made responsible of the disastrous 2011-2017 years
Next will be Saudi Arabia. Its war crimes Yemen and Syria ignored by the West will not remain unpaid. 2017 will see the collapse of Saudi Arabia's ruling family at the death of the King. It will bring instability in Qatar, Kuwait and the emirates.
Russia, Iran and China's influence will grow at the detriment of the USA and the EU.

Posted by: virgile | Dec 18, 2016 8:08:49 PM | 48

Bwa ha ha. 60 Minutes just had the ultimate fluff piece on the White Helmets. It started off selling them as a purely volunteer group from various work fields. But later they showed training and said they get $29 from the US for that which is a third of their budget. Budget? Volunteers? The segment showed a barrel bomb dropped, a few other bombs exploding, pulling children from rubble, and more demonizing of Syria/Russia. Pelley tallked about the people getting food in the govt camps after being "starved out" by the Syrians. Any mention of al Nusra or other fighters? No. Any mention of foreign fighters? No. And what of what the alt media has found out about the operation? Nothing there.

Posted by: Curtis | Dec 18, 2016 8:12:14 PM | 49

@ aniteleya 27
I'm not sure if Hafez would have considered his attacks on Muslim Brotherhood to be a mistake. Of course, there would have been resentment no matter the scale. As I've read in Tim Anderson's book, most Syrians approved of the pluralistic society and did not support the violent extremists. Most approved and voted for Bashar and they also support the military. The people know and fear the outsiders. Bashar has implemented some reforms and like any govt has cronyism but if anything some supporters are disappointed he hasn't gone after the terrorists harder. You're right that patience and long term thinking can win. He's seen Libya and knows there is a limit out there some where.

Posted by: Curtis | Dec 18, 2016 8:26:36 PM | 51

This morning , al Jazeera english ran a documentary made by an australian woman who had been 'rescued' from Saigon in the 1975 "save the children" airlift.
So what? well it accidentally throws a spotlight on the fukusi mismanagement of the relief of Aleppo.
Apart from revealing the woman's unabashed total integration into the culture of white Australia where there is nothing that one shouldn't feel entitled to, the doco considered the circumstances of the airlift - chiefly because the doco maker appeared to believe "she was done wrong" A great many of the children were treated badly by a culture that was terrified by Asia's proximity and multitudinous population and rightly question what happened but the doco-maker appears to have been 'rescued' by a family with accepting & loving siblings no doubt because 'Dad' was a man I judged to be a senior public servant whose philosophy of service was likely shaped by the late great Nugget Coombs, the fellow whose outlook inspired me for many years when I worked with North Australian Indigenous people in a vain attempt to alleviate the worst of what colonialism/imperialism had brought them.

Anyway back on track, the doco maker wanted to find out why all these children (mostly babies under 8 months of age, were ripped out of Vietnam without any attempt to obtain permission from the families of the infants.
Everybody stuck to the same story that both the media and the rumour-mills were awash with stories of the evil viet cong butchering babies as they massacred any 'southerner' believed to have collaborated with the freedom loving amerikans.
Then she managed to jag an interview with the Saigon CIA station's torturer in chief and senior adviser to the US guvmint, Frank Snepp (for some reason I cannot retain this bloke's surname and find myself calling him Frank Nitti, who was boss of an entirely different crew of thugs).

Snepp's devotion to liberal interventionism aka US imperialism must have undergone some sort of epiphany at a later time, because he is now one of those "too long after the fact to matter, but close enough to still sell plenty of books & grab TV 'expert gigs" CIA whistle-blowers.

According to Snepp the tales of Vietcong butchery were manufactured in the CIA station and distributed via a compliant MSM.
Gerald Ford had taken over as prez and somehow believed he still had a chance of staying prez in the upcoming election despite having pardoned tricky dicky.
Ford had been told by the handlers he employed to translate concepts down to a level that he could comprehend, that his re-election was entirely dependant on the invasion and occupation of Vietnam ending asap.
So all funds the invaders relied upon to keep the natives fighting were cut off, as were any further shipments of 'hot gold' - guns and the ammo to keep em killing.
Natch as far as the CIA were concerned that could not be allowed to stand, so they dreamed up this babies being butchered bullshit, a yarn which owes its existence to the highly successful 1914 anglo/french riff "The krauts are bayoneting Belgian babies in Brussels".

Tales from our recent past, or history, can be wonderfully entertaining and enlightening don'tcha think?
They certainly give great insight into the machinations of the current batch of corrupt DC assholes.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 18, 2016 8:52:42 PM | 52

Please, if you have any questions on Syria - a good place to start is http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/rfk-jr-why-arabs-dont-trust-america-213601 (by Robert Kennedy Jr.)
S. Hersh's Redirection (New Yorker, 2007) is next
Hafez al Asssad only seriously went after MB, when (I think 1982) their assassination attempt of him failed
It's not really that complicated

Posted by: GoraDiva | Dec 18, 2016 9:25:57 PM | 53

Becky Caroll, a little background...

https://www.gofundme.com/StandWithAleppo

All in all, for such a distinguished operative, only $1400 raised for her pet Allepian brain surgeon? Raised like $5M for Rahm Emmanuel. By the time she raises her $2000 the war will be over.

Posted by: stumpy | Dec 18, 2016 9:37:06 PM | 54

The usual agit-prop, lite version https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/810495215224164352

Posted by: stumpy | Dec 18, 2016 9:42:04 PM | 55

thanks denis @ 43. the story may be false. but not for any reason you adduce.

God-Emperor Padadash Shaddam V Obama his own highness' self announced a special forces increase of 200 troopers on the teevee! i seen his lips move w/my own two lying eyes. on FOX. just a couple of days ago.

your doubt seems to stem from names of people from non-NATO countries appearing in this list. that's like saying private jiminez of ecuador can't be in the US army cuz ecuador ain't in the US.

and maybe taking NATO at its word when general stoffenberg or whoever says, in effect, "NATO doesn't need another Afghanistan?" ergo NATO troops are not in Syria? yeah, take NATO official pronouncements w/a big dump truck of rock salt.

so NATO is a branch of the US military (yes, it is) and the US is clearly doing all kinds of skullduggery in Syria...ergo ipso factso...but yeah...whackiness on the innerwebs...

Posted by: jason | Dec 18, 2016 9:42:11 PM | 56

@43 denis 'I’d probably say that the source of all evil is a lot broader than Americans. It’s probably something like capitalism, and America is just a sub-set of that.

'I see zionism as the source of 50% of the evil in the ME and Muslim sectarianism as the source of the other 50%. Americans were definitely not the source of evil such as James Foley’s decapitation. That was pure Muslim evil. No, USG is not the source of Muslim evil, but USG tries to play off of it to its own advantage, which is just as evil.'

i certainly agree the 'something like capitalism' is the drive wheel of the usa, but one doesn't have to give in to abject greed and rughlessness as the American ruling class have done. The USA was on top of the world, and what do we have to show for it now? Nothing. Zilch. Too many vile billionaires. We could have had the healthiest, best educated citizenry in history. could have been a positive example instead of the all-time negative one. Nazi Germany at least had the excuse of defeat and reparations. We had it made in the shade and still we went bad.

The Zionists would be nowhere, literally, without the 110% support they've received from the USA. The Muslims terrorists are simultaneously funded and equipped by the USA and dedicated to die fighting in reaction against the USA, which is quite a feat.

i've gotta say the USA is 'the source of all evil' at this point. this is not due to some 'essential' quality of us Americans, it's due to the usa's unparalleled 'freedom' to work its will unopposed on the rest of humanity. there are plenty of greedy and ruthless people elsewhere, but Americans stole an entire continent, told ourselves we were god's chosen people, and that 'economics' was our vehicle to do god's will. There are still plenty of 'missionaries' abroad selling that song. The Koch Brothers, for instance.

so here we are. the evil will end when the unbridled power of the USA ends. the present ruling class is doing its best to forestall the latter, and in so doing tries to ensure too that the former, the evil, will not end 'on their shift'. that's what accounts for the deranged political show being played out today ... well it's 'today' here already. you'll have to catch up ;) we'll see what happens.

isn't it amazing that ... even in the face of the accession of tee-rump/tee-rex ... the 'elite' were still able to reach deep down into their bag of sick and evil tricks and pull out something even more evil in answer?

Posted by: jfl | Dec 18, 2016 10:08:26 PM | 57

The source of evil... greed, ambition, lack of empathy. Occurs everywhere, a human trait, but only prevails when good men do nothing. Are there any good men in the US?.. or are they all doing nothing?

Posted by: Peter AU | Dec 18, 2016 10:37:38 PM | 58

Denis 43
The NATO crap seems to have emanated from PTSD halfway house Veterans Today. The Syrian special forces indeed seem to have captured some embarrassing VIPs, but not NATO VIP's

Russian government funded Arabic Sputnik kicked of the thing about advisers splattered on cave walls. Came soon after the Morrel - Charlie Rose interview and just after the US attack on Deir Ezzor. US were also unaccountably pissed at that time. I'm guessing somebody had a messy job cleaning up their cave.

Posted by: Peter AU | Dec 18, 2016 10:49:56 PM | 59

"dennis the menace"... this was meant in response to your comment @27

@ 27... mccain is a first class warmongering jackass.. i am always happy to give a response to his ideology too..

the usa needs to unlearn it's mindset of thinking it is a savior to the rest of the world.. it isn't.. in fact, all it fucking does is make life a lot worse for the planet and many people on the planet.. all there leadership is leading the planet off a fucking cliff... most folks, except a few die hard neo cons and americans believe the shit mccain spews... get out in the real fucking world dude..

Posted by: james | Dec 18, 2016 5:27:34 PM | 38

@48 virgile.. thanks for your 2017 prediction... turkey is increasingly unstable.. it is hard to know how this will resolve, but describing it as a type of civil war is not a bad start.. unless someone takes out erdogan, i think this can go on for a long while and get worse.. it could be an ingredient to a much bigger war, then what we have now in syria.

saudi arabia.. i wish that would come true, but i see them hanging on longer..

it is hard not to be somewhat pessimistic over the fate of planet earth as we approach 2017.. the lies, angst, fear and loathing seem more pronounced then they were a couple of years ago, and i don't live in the war torn conflict areas which must be experiencing this to an infinite degree more then myself..

Posted by: james | Dec 18, 2016 11:02:51 PM | 60

Debsisdead 52
"I worked with North Australian Indigenous people in a vain attempt to alleviate the worst of what colonialism/imperialism had brought them."

White Australia is alive and well. I worked awhile not as a do gooder but a contactor in the Kimberlies. Took awhile to get anyone from the communities to come and work for me. First an old bloke that just wanted to get out of the community for awhile and back into a stock camp. Then a middle aged man (D), who when he introduced himself told me he was an alcoholic (we had a couple of beers around the campfire each night and never a problem). Then the young bloke I was after agreed to come and work for me. Very switched on and talented.

Derby Races we head into town. The elders told me I would never get D back out of town once he got on the grog.
Monday morning I roll up at the servo to fuel up the truck before loading supplies and D, already half tanked, is there beside me asking when are we leaving. Took a bit of convincing that I would be a few hours picking up supplies.
But something he said that will stick with me forever.

You treat me like a man not a blackfella.

White Australia is alive and well. Even the do gooders practice it.

Posted by: Peter AU | Dec 18, 2016 11:26:53 PM | 61

President Putin (1952–) immediately telephoned President Bush
(1946–). ‘I said that Masud, the leader of the Northern Alliance, had
just been killed. I told my American colleague: “I’m very worried.
Something big is going to happen. They’re planning something.”’
The Twin Towers in New York were bombed two days later.

I have been reading "Afgantsy" by Rodric Braithwaite, who was UK ambassador to USSR at the time of the invasion of Afghanistan.
Incredible book, brilliantly written, many insight s.

Found a free pdf copy on a pashtun website.

The full context of the quote above is:

The Arabs got their interview on 9 September and killed Masud with a
bomb concealed in their TV camera. They were said to be Moroccans
from a news agency in London. Scotland Yard therefore investigated
the affair and Dubnov was interviewed by them. But the investigation
was apparently abandoned for lack of sufficient evidence.30
President Putin (1952–) immediately telephoned President Bush
(1946–). ‘I said that Masud, the leader of the Northern Alliance, had
just been killed. I told my American colleague: “I’m very worried.
Something big is going to happen. They’re planning something.”’ 31
The Twin Towers in New York were bombed two days later. Putin
was the first foreign leader to express his condolences to Bush, and
immediately took practical steps to support the forthcoming American
campaign to destroy the Taliban and Al Qaeda. His people handed over
a good deal of intelligence, including minefield maps – many of them
inevitably inaccurate after the passage of time. He opened Russian air
space to American military flights and persuaded the leaders of the
Central Asian states to do the same. He met the leaders of the Northern
Alliance, stepped up Russian military support for them, and convinced
them to cooperate with the Americans. Th is collaboration did not
flag. The northern supply route through Russia became increasingly
important, as the Americans got into trouble with their supply route
from Pakistan. The flow of intelligence continued. In October 2010
Russians provided support and advice for a US-led raid on four major
narcotics factories, the first joint operation of its kind. Many Russians
felt that the Americans were insufficiently grateful for what Putin had
done to help them.32

Posted by: mauisurfer | Dec 18, 2016 11:37:17 PM | 62

Wwinsti | Dec 18, 2016 7:28:51 PM | 45
“You have 80 odd planes, a dozen or so SAMs, 3000 troops, and several badly outgunned ships at your immediate command. After you've informed your opponents and their vastly superior numbers to gtfo, what's your next move when they say, "no"? ”

Well, yes . . . I would agree that your assessment based on the situation 3 years ago that would be an awkward position. But let us update your inventory of military gear at Assad’s disposal with RuF’s contributions. For instance, all of these are now on hand in Syria:

Buk-M2 air defense sys ~ Bastion coastal defense sys ~ S-300 SAM systems w/ >150 missiles ~ S-400 air defense system ~ over 50 combat jets of various descriptions parked in Syria + dozens more available from RuF territories ~ a couple dozen attack helicopters ~ unlimited flights of long-range Tu-22 Backfire, Tu-95 Bear, Tu-160 Blackjack bombers from RuF territory ~ SA-22 anti-aircraft systems ~ T-90 tanks ~ recon drones such as the MQ-1 ~ multiple BM-30 missile launchers ~ dozens of nuke-tipped long-range cruise missiles in the Med and Caspian.

Now, what would I do in this situation if they said “no”? I’d have another chat with Vladimir and then I’d go to the UN security council and I would repeat very politely the demand for USG and Turks to get out of Syria. I would say, “After 72 hours the next US or Turk plane that flies over Syrian airspace will be totally wasted and any US or Turk ground troops or equipment on Syrian soil will also be wasted. If you need a 24 hour good-faith extension, ask for it within 24 hours.”

And then, just so dh wouldn’t be disappointed, I would add “Just one tiny perceived mis-step and Vladimir will ram a fucking Kalibr right up your collective ass.” I would say that very slowly to be sure the translation was accurate.

My point is that Assad's position has improved quite a bit since the situation you describe. If the USG is doing more to extend the war and the killing than to end them, then from a moral viewpoint Assad and Putin should be kicking them out. Sounds to me like they have the resources to do that.

Posted by: Denis | Dec 18, 2016 11:40:30 PM | 63

@53 gorediva... forgot to include you in my last post.. thanks for the link. someone posted it here months ago, but it is good to post it again for anyone who missed it.. good read - thanks.

Posted by: james | Dec 18, 2016 11:42:00 PM | 64

denis @ 63

Wilfully delusional or relevant experience/insight limited to playing FPSs/Esports, hm ?

Such an explicit threat, allows no 'out' for the other party, is an utterly unacceptable zero sum proposition, that allows nil face saving, and in the forum proposed, would be interpreted as a de facto pending Declaration of War ... and engender the appropriate response ...

~ unlimited flights of long-range Tu-22 Backfire, Tu-95 Bear, Tu-160 Blackjack bombers from RuF territory

WTF ?!

Posted by: Outraged | Dec 19, 2016 12:08:38 AM | 65

Denis 63

Add in the factor not mentioned by Wwinsti that Russia is also dealing with a suicide bomber in the shape of MAD.

Posted by: Peter AU | Dec 19, 2016 12:11:59 AM | 66

Re: Posted by: dh | Dec 18, 2016 12:43:08 PM | 7

That can't possibly be true because that is just plain insane. So just letting Western mercs, NATO officers slip out of Aleppo without nary a consequence in the world?

Haven't they heard of the concept of "bargaining chips"? And yet they just so blithely throw them away?

Hardly. Therefore it can't possibly be true.

Don't you think "doing a deal" with the new Trump Administration would be a lot easier if there were a few dozen US mercs/ NATO officers to offer up to get what you want? Rather than not?

Posted by: Julian | Dec 19, 2016 12:42:56 AM | 67

Re: Posted by: Mark | Dec 18, 2016 2:45:42 PM | 23

Well, the other consideration is that Putin is lying. If he isn't it is a foolish statement to make. So I presume he's lying.

Posted by: Julian | Dec 19, 2016 1:27:30 AM | 68

It's becoming increasingly obvious most of the "activists" sending vids from Aleppo are no longer there. Lina Shamy, Mahmoud Raslan & co are long gone, probably caught the first green bus out of town. For "proof" check out this video @walid970721 posted today on Twitter, Mahmoud Raslan's aspect ratio(ratio of width to height) constantly changes: https://twitter.com/walid970721/status/810642819773829120
If that video isn't "fake" I'll eat my hat.

Posted by: D. Barnes | Dec 19, 2016 1:37:04 AM | 69

Denis,
two problems with bombing the shit out of al Nusra and their mates. One, Assad loses some support among the people and two it becomes an excuse for wider involvement. The war ends when Saudi and Qatar etc. stop funding the terrorists and they lose the will to fight. Bomb the shit out of them and Saudi sends in more money and more bombs and the cycle continues. Al Sham don't care how many men they lose - there are plenty more insane Wahabist terrorists to import.
Some say Hitler lost the eastern front in his Russian campaign because of his cruelty and brutality to the Jews, Ukrainians, Poles etc. and they hated him and did not support him.
Sure there are times when it is right to go in hard and crush the terrorists,but tactically a slow steady squeeze seems to me to be better. Once Assad has Aleppo and East Ghouta sorted, i think the pace will pick up a bit.
What would you do if Israel started throwing its weight around - bomb the shit out of Tel Aviv ?

Posted by: aniteleya | Dec 19, 2016 3:09:27 AM | 70

Posted by: aniteleya | Dec 19, 2016 3:09:27 AM | 71

Another reason is that there is a deal with Turkey who has a severe terrorism problem now, too.
If Turkey is allowed to save their proxies they will cooperate on the terrorism part.

Posted by: somebody | Dec 19, 2016 3:18:12 AM | 71

@ Outraged | 66

Such an explicit threat, allows no 'out' for the other party, is an utterly unacceptable zero sum proposition, that allows nil face saving, and in the forum proposed, would be interpreted as a de facto pending Declaration of War ... and engender the appropriate response ...

I agree, such explicit threat can be made by only three countries in the World - US, Russia and China, if aggressors stumble in into their territory. Syria is supported by Russia, but lets not make mistake here - it cares about its interests first and foremost, and doesnt have resources to fight NATO on the Syrian ground. Unlike US, Russia's power projection isnt global, and in any case they wouldnt start WW3 over Syria. If Killary was elected, I'm pretty sure she would have tested that.

What I really dont like though, is that Resistance doesnt make the Axis of Evil to pay even clandestinely. The reason aggressors keep pouring billions of $ and hundreds thousands tons of weapons because they feel safe from any consequences, and petro dollars are cheap. But if their oilfields and pipes start burning, and princes start getting into "accidents", then calculation would suddenly change. Or the example with US, they were cruelly bombing Hezbollah, until got Beirut barracks exploding in their faces, packed their things and left the country. Thats the way to go, and not "hit me in the face as much as you want, and I just turn another cheek." This strategy costs way too many Syrian lives.

Posted by: Harry | Dec 19, 2016 3:54:26 AM | 72

@59 peter au, '... are they all doing nothing?'

we're obviously not doing what it takes.

Posted by: jfl | Dec 19, 2016 4:35:17 AM | 74

Aniteleya@71 "What would you do if Israel started throwing its weight around - bomb the shit out of Tel Aviv ?"
Harry@73 "Or the example with US, they were cruelly bombing Hezbollah, until got Beirut barracks exploding in their faces, packed their things and left the country. Thats the way to go".
I agree with Harry, but it could be done in a clandestine manner, there are simply no consequences for Saudi Arabia in continuing to fund the head choppers, this comprehensive article on the vulnerability of Saudi Oil infrastructure gives a detailed description for any would be opponent of Saudi aggression, with one warning 'don't get caught' you will be summilarily executed. http://www.gulfinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Threats_to_the_Saudi_Oil_Infrastructure.pdf
The Israelis think twice about threatening Hezbollah now that Hez have 100,000 rockets aimed at their vital infrastructure, many with GPS, also drones, targeting the Metropolitan Tel Aviv area, they have even gone to the extent of informing Hezbollah of the reasons for a particular military incident, fearful of that barrage.

Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 19, 2016 7:40:05 AM | 75

One of the main reasons why the Israelis do not fear Hamas is the ineffectiveness of their rockets. Ben Gurion airport was over 60 kilometers away a prime target, which could destroy the Israeli economy, being the only International Airport, vital for Tourism and Finance. Hamas argued that it was a legitimate target because it had a military base there and /or it was a legitimate 'belligerent reprisal' tactic, allowed for under the rules of war. Of the 7,000 rockets fired, very few rockets hit anything, at most a few thousands dollars cost to the Israelis. Hamas blew up the desert, what's worse they knew their rockets were inaccurate and might not hit anything, but fired them anyway. The Israelis returned fire and destroyed great swathes of the Gaza strip, estimated 8 billion dollars damage. The bottom line, if you shoot at a King [Ben Gurion airport] you must kill him"

Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 19, 2016 8:20:19 AM | 76

@68 Oh definitely a very dubious article Julian. Somebody at Fars wrote it.....not me. I just thought it was interesting.

That said we are still waiting for evidence of captured documents NATO officers etc. We haven't even seen a bashed up Uighur yet.

Posted by: dh | Dec 19, 2016 8:56:56 AM | 77

Latest minute ago Dr. Bashar al-Jaafar spoke in Security Council Media Stakeout in UN website. Foreign mercenaries still in E Aleppo and he confirmed they will be arrested and show the world. However, my opinions somehow they will escape. You can't trust Americak and UN. Russia vote for the French draft resolution, Amerika and their criminals will sabotage it. You just can't trust Amerika. Period!
PS: sorrie dunno how to download the vids.

http://webtv.un.org/live-now/watch/security-council-media-stakeout-syria-and-other-matters/5195686296001

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 19, 2016 9:56:51 AM | 78

Samantha Power now speaking, she is lying to her teeth get the feeling she will used UN to smuggle the mercenaries out or some illegal methods. Remember, Dr. Bashar al-Jaafari spoke earlier he is determined to show the mercenaries to the world.

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 19, 2016 10:08:31 AM | 79

@80 The Syrians may be waiting for the right moment. Also it can't be easy to organize these things. I recall when the Iranians caught some Americans in a boat it took a while for them to find the right repentant spokesman.

Posted by: dh | Dec 19, 2016 10:14:32 AM | 80

@dh | Dec 19, 2016 10:14:32 AM | 81

Question a reporter asked will SAA and Russian allow UN observers into the areas where the Syrians hostage held by the terrorists. Dr. Bashar al-Jaafari replied.... UN observers are there NOW in Aleppo and not from space etc.

http://webtv.un.org/live-now/watch/security-council-media-stakeout-syria-and-other-matters/5195686296001

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 19, 2016 10:25:11 AM | 81

If the CIA pulls off the coup against Trump, then we'll see why the al CIA Duh terrorists have been so resistant to sane cease-fire proposals, they were just waiting--as told by the CIA--to wait until we get our man, Hillary into the WH.

Posted by: Greg Bacon | Dec 19, 2016 10:27:17 AM | 82

b, sorrie posted this vid earlier in MoA.

Dunno who Dr. Bashar al-Jaafari? An excellent Youtube Mar 17, 2016, ABC Australia Lateline's Tony Jones interview w/ Bashar al-Jaafari, Syrian Am to UN and also watch the next Youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6DSEkehMAI

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 19, 2016 10:37:14 AM | 83

So I guess Mike Morrell got his "message" across to Russia. Cuz the Russian Ambassador has been shot. Calling card SEE-AYE-A.

Gee. Sedition, lies and murder are alive and well at US intel.

Posted by: Take Me | Dec 19, 2016 11:46:20 AM | 84

The Russian Ambassador to Turkey was shot in an Ankara today in an assassination attempt.

https://www.rt.com/news/370774-russian-ambassador-shot-ankara/

Posted by: AnEducatedFool | Dec 19, 2016 11:49:20 AM | 85

I suppose we need to start with Morell telling PBS/CBS interviewer Charlie Rose on Aug. 8 that he (Morell) wanted to “make the Iranians pay a price in Syria. … make the Russians pay a price in Syria.”

Rose: “We make them pay the price by killing Russians?”

Morell: “Yeah.”

Rose: “And killing Iranians?”

Morell: “Yes … You don’t tell the world about it. … But you make sure they know it in Moscow and Tehran.” http://www.globalresearch.ca/ex-cia-mike-morells-kill-russians-advice/5540949

Posted by: harrylaw | Dec 19, 2016 12:00:01 PM | 86

Is THIS the payback Obama was talking about?

May God bless Ambassador Karlov and his family. Very VERY sad.

Posted by: Take Me | Dec 19, 2016 12:16:46 PM | 87

JesusHChrist these seditionist murdering fukwits make me sick. And their asshat SJW chanting "No treason, no Trump" will be put on the front line of the gawddamn war that's coming for them. I hate these assholes with a burning passion. May they rot in whatever satan, pedo HELL that takes them.

Posted by: Take Me | Dec 19, 2016 12:21:32 PM | 88

RT has been reporting an attack on the Russian ambassador to Turkey at a photo exhibition in Ankara. The ambassador was apparently shot twice and seriously wounded. He has been taken to a hospital.

The shooter, who was in police uniform, shouted “Allahu akbar!”, but he also spoke some Russian, which suggests to me that he is a Chechen. He also allegedly said something about Aleppo, at least according to initial reports.

The shooter was later shot dead, which is unfortunate, as he cannot now be interrogated. Apparently he said that he would not be taken alive, so perhaps he gave the authorities no choice but to kill him.

Turkish Foreign Minister Davutoglu is at the moment en route to Moscow for previously scheduled negotiations.

Posted by: lysias | Dec 19, 2016 12:25:02 PM | 89

according to denis/mccain - the usa is showing us there great leadership abilities..

Posted by: james | Dec 19, 2016 12:26:00 PM | 90


Bashar Ja’afari (Syria) on Syria - Security Council Media Stakeout (19 December 2016)

http://webtv.un.org/watch/bashar-ja’afari-syria-on-syria-security-council-media-stakeout-19-december-2016/5253810173001

Posted by: Jack Smith | Dec 19, 2016 12:27:02 PM | 91

RT: Russian ambassador confirmed dead.

Posted by: lysias | Dec 19, 2016 12:27:09 PM | 92

@90 lysias - Davutoglu retired in may 2016.. maybe you mean someone else..

Posted by: james | Dec 19, 2016 12:28:10 PM | 93

@94 -- Yes, my mistake. The foreign minister is now Çavuşoğlu, and he is the one who is en route to Moscow.

Posted by: lysias | Dec 19, 2016 12:29:51 PM | 94

Oh dear.... Their defeat in Aleppo is making them do very stupid things.. They just assassinated the Russian ambassador to Turkey.. Yes, the same Turkey that shot down a Russian jet in Syrian airspace.. Another egg in Putin's face for not punishing Erdogan and instead rolling out the red carpet for him - all because of some gas pipelines.

Erdogan's Turkey has become so radicalized it's beyond redemption. What's coming to Turkey will be worse than Pakistan. We saw a similar thing yesterday in Jordan - another Pakistan in slow motion. Basically, any country that hosts/provides logistic to these Wahhabi retards will be in for a bloody treat coz those a**holes NEVER leave when you let them in. They breed like flies!!!

A few days ago, Obama personally threatened Russian of consequences.. I guess this is it!!! I fear where this might lead us. The people running the show in the West have really gone crazy. Any Western diplomat/ambassador is now at risk.

What saddens me is that many innocent people will die for nothing!!!

Posted by: Zico | Dec 19, 2016 12:36:56 PM | 95

The shooter was later shot dead

Is there any photo evidence of this? This was a well planned, targeted assassination and right now I wouldn't rule out the turks themselves as a suspect.

Posted by: never mind | Dec 19, 2016 12:37:56 PM | 96

Of course killing off russians is what the antirussian hate leads to.

Posted by: Lionshare | Dec 19, 2016 12:43:04 PM | 97

Russian ambassador gunned down in Ankara, seriously wounded: media

The Russian ambassador to Ankara was seriously wounded in a gun attack in the Turkish capital on Monday and was taken to hospital, NTV and other broadcasters reported.
Hurriyet newspaper's English website said Ambassador Andrei Karlov was shot while making a speech at an art gallery. NTV said three other people were wounded.
CNN Turk television said shooting was continuing in the building.

Posted by: okie farmer | Dec 19, 2016 12:43:36 PM | 98

Pretty neat how they got a good picture of the dead russian ambassador, timely published online on twitter for the whole world to see.

Posted by: never mind | Dec 19, 2016 12:43:54 PM | 99

dead.. story and picture from hurriyet..

Posted by: james | Dec 19, 2016 12:46:07 PM | 100

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