November 25, 2016
Mainstream Reporting Foggy While MoA Smeared As "Russian Propaganda" Site
Hurriyet Daily News (Turkey), Nov 24 2016 - Three Turkish soldiers killed in suspected Syrian government air strike
Al Masdar News (Syria), Nov 25 2016 - Syrian Air Force denies bombing Turkish Army in east Aleppo
Avid readers of news sides will ask which of those reports is correct. They may turn to the so-called (hint: it's not) "paper of record", the New York Times and find this Nov 24 report: Syrian Warplanes Kill Turkish Soldiers Fighting in Syria
While that NYT headline claims certainty the text does not. It obediently repeats the Turkish government claim but adds:
Syrian Arab rebel forces fighting with the Turks said they had not received official notification that the Syrian government had launched the strike. One fighter said he had heard that the strike was from the Syrian government but heard later that it had been from the Islamic State. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a network based in Britain that monitors news from Syria, also said that the strike had been by the Islamic State.
An updated version of that report adds:
Some on the ground raised questions about whether the strike was undertaken by Syrian government forces. A network of activists who monitor the skies over Syria said Thursday that its watchers had spotted a Syrian aircraft taking off after 2 a.m. and also a Russian aircraft about the same time as the strike on Turkish forces occurred. It is impossible to know where the planes that were sighted went; they could easily have had another destination, the network said.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a network based in Britain that monitors news from Syria, said the strike was by the Islamic State. But the Islamic State, also known as ISIS, is not known to have combat aircraft.
The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) is a sophisticated disinformation outlet of the British foreign intelligence service MI-6. SOHR is on one side very manipulating, i.e. SOHR counts only foreigners, deserters of the Syrian army, ISIS and al-Qaeda fighters on the anti-government side as "rebels killed". Ten-thousands of Syrian civilians who took up arms to become well paid "Syrian rebel" fighters are counted as "civilians" when besieged, killed or wounded. On the other side SOHR provides the most complete and detailed record of the war. It helps its reputation and is the reason why it is a favorite quoted source for "western" news "reporting".
The answer to the reader's question is that both Hurriyet and Al Masdar, are right and the NYT writers are confused by the fog of war and too lazy to do basic research. The devil is, as always, in the details.
On November 23 a Turkish armored military vehicle was attacked near the village Wiqah north of Al-Bab in northern Syria. Some sources claimed a guided missile strike. ISIS related Twitter accounts claimed a suicide attack.
(Note: The above account has now been suspended.)
ISIS later released a picture of the claimed suicide bomber.
The SOHR account of the Turkish vehicle hit, cited by the NYT, obviously refers to this November 23 attack.
The air-attack on the Turkish soldiers north of Al-Bab happened on November 24 at 3:30am local time according to the Turkish army. It was confirmed to journalists by very senior people in Damascus. The Al Masdar News account though, seemingly denying such a strike, includes a very specific non-denial-denial quote:
A high-ranking official from the Syrian Arab Air Force (SAAYF) told Al-Masdar on Thursday night that their fighter jets did not bomb the Turkish Army in east Aleppo.
"No Syrian or Russian aircraft bombed the Turkish Army near Al-Bab on November 23rd - all reports claiming otherwise are lies," the official confirmed to Al-Masdar on Thursday.
The airstrike did not on occur on the 23rd, as "denied" by SAAYF, but on the 24th. The NYT report mixes up two attacks as one, while basic research shows evidence of two very different attacks. The Al Masdar folks do not understand the specificity of the quotes their sources give.
Hurriyet and others have connected the Syrian air-attack to the Turkish attack on a Russian jet exactly one year before. I doubt that this coincident is intended. Al-Bab, held by ISIS and coveted by nearby Turkish, Kurdish and Syrian government forces, is an important target that will be fought over between the various sides for some time to come. The hit was not some symbolic, historic revenge act, nor was it to roast Turkey for Thanksgiving, but a signal to Turkey that Al-Bab is and will stay off limits for its forces.
News accounts of war, be those of casualties, of specific incidents or assume motivations, are always suspect. They are often written with disinformation in mind. Historic accounts are mostly written by the winners of a specific conflict and heavily "colored" from that perspective. Forensic or video proof can be easily forged and should always be taken with many pinches of salt. Only diligent research on all sides of a conflict can uncover what really happened. Only when "reports" from opposite sides agree on numbers or specific incidents on can assume to be near the truth.
As the above news dissecting shows it is quite possible to beat the (lazy) New York Times reporting in correctness and thereby quality.
But when one tries to be diligent and not solely on one side, one can be sure to end up as denounced and hated by at least one if not all sides of a conflict. This website, MoonofAlabama.org, is now listed as "Russian propaganda outlet" by some neoconned, NATO aligned, anonymous "Friendly Neighborhood Propaganda Identification Service" prominently promoted by today's Washington Post. The minions running that censorship list also watch over our "Russian propaganda" Twitter account @MoonofA.
I wholeheartedly recommend to use at least parts of the list that new anonymous censorship entity provides as your new or additional "Favorite Bookmarks" list. It includes illustrious financial anti-fraud sites like Yves Smith's Naked Capitalism, Wikileaks, well informed libertarian sites like Ron Paul and AntiWar.com and leftish old timers like Counterpunch. Of general (non-mainstream) news sites Consortiumnews, run by Robert Parry who revealed the Iran-contra crimes, is included as well as Truthdig and Truth-out.org. Some easy to remove nazi sites have been added to that list to smear the serious ones. A rather stupid "trick" of "guilt by association" for which only the very dumb fall.
I am honored to find this site listed next to the above.
Posted by b on November 25, 2016 at 06:56 AM | Permalink
I love it how they say a Ronald Reagan Assistant Secretary to the United States Treasury for Economic Policy in the 1980s is some kind of Russian spy!!
Hang on - wasn't Paul Craig Roberts a big part of the Administration that destroyed the at the time Russian Empire known as the USSR?
So actually, he was working on behalf of the Russians to destroy the Russian Empire?
I mean seriously - WTF idiots???
Posted by: Jules | Nov 25, 2016 7:33:24 AM | 2
Where were they back in 2002/2003 when NYT and WaPo and the networks were kowtowing to the Bush administration, w/o mentioning the embedded journos who were the spinmasters of the military and Viceroy Bremmer?
How come they don't talk about WaPo being a rapporteur at the annual Bilderberg meeting?
Posted by: Yul | Nov 25, 2016 8:39:31 AM | 3
Turkey, Russia in contact in aftermath of alleged Syrian strike on Turkish forces
The fact that the attack came on the first anniversary of the Russian jet crisis might not be a coincidence, as Syria’s army might be attempting to sow divisions between Russia and Turkey.
If Turkey heightens the friction with Syria due to the attack, it may be forced to open a new front in the region, in addition to its existing ones against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) and Syrian Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD). And in such a case, it would face Russia as a belligerent state.
Such friction with Syria and Russia may dim the effect, in the long run, of Turkey’s aerial support for the Euphrates Shield operation.
Posted by: virgile | Nov 25, 2016 9:06:25 AM | 6
So we are supposed to believe that not only the anniversary of the shoot-down is a coincidence, but also that November 24 was Thanksgiving in the US, where they sometimes pardon a Turkey but most often stuff and roast some? Hmm.... ;oP
Congrats for making the list, b!
Their "allies" blogroll is telling as well, sporting such impressive institutions as stopfake, Brown Noses and Interpreter Rag... lol
Posted by: CE | Nov 25, 2016 9:17:25 AM | 7
In that illustrious list they left out or missed out XYMPHORA....one of the better ones out there.....
Posted by: notlurking | Nov 25, 2016 9:42:24 AM | 8
That list is hilarious.
Many of them are just shit conspiracy theorist websites. God Like Productions? They're having a giraffe.
Posted by: Bob | Nov 25, 2016 10:00:39 AM | 9
@6 virgile, 'And in such a case, it would face Russia as a belligerent state. Such friction with Syria and Russia may dim the effect, in the long run, of Turkey’s aerial support for the Euphrates Shield operation.'
Is Hurriyet noting the end of the Turkish Air Force's adventures in Syria?
Posted by: jfl | Nov 25, 2016 10:15:32 AM | 10
Congrats, b. You've made it. Preferred seating at Le Restaurante Deplorables. You need some bimbos on each arm and some really chic sunglasses now, even for the indoors!
We love you. We really love you.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 25, 2016 10:16:04 AM | 11
I sent them this,
I have a number of sites that should be added to the list.
They have all reproduced Russian propaganda and must surely be part of the Russian media campaign based upon their output.
Foreign Affairs (Council on Foreign Relations)
Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault
Now the truth emerges: how the US fuelled the rise of Isis in Syria and Iraq
The west looks on as corruption and bigotry rule in the 'new Ukraine'
Video raises concerns over Ukraine's treatment of Russian prisoners
New York Times
Why Ukraine Is Losing the War on Corruption
Ukraine’s Security Services and Rebels Are Said to Be Equals in Torture
Getting Ukraine Wrong
Don't Arm Ukraine
I'm sure you will agree, only Russian propagandists would put out such ludicrous articles. These sites are not to be trusted."
Posted by: Bill | Nov 25, 2016 10:28:01 AM | 12
In the wikileaks cables, moonofalabama is given as a serious source discussing the results of the Russian election. Something here does not add up.
Posted by: Mina | Nov 25, 2016 10:48:41 AM | 13
Russian propaganda. Jeez...
I remember being bombarded with news items during the run up to our Brexit vote that a vote to leave the EU effectively made you a Putin sympathiser and ergo some kind of Kremlin troll. So too during the US election, and now watch the same accusations surface during the French election. Astonishing ignorance of what's really happening, so blame the Russian boogeyman.
Posted by: Pat Bateman | Nov 25, 2016 11:10:03 AM | 14
Thanks for doing what you do b. MoA is now on the Honor Roll for humanity.
Its the old canard, if you are not with us, you are against us. There is no room for any position other than the two poles....but don't ever talk about top/bottom.
Glad to read you in such improved form.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 25, 2016 11:21:11 AM | 15
i adore you b, congratulations.
Posted by: annie | Nov 25, 2016 11:38:38 AM | 16
@ Pat Bateman | Nov 25, 2016 11:10:03 AM | 14
Would you allow to go to waste the efforts made from the mid to late 1940's until today to generate fear and loathing of Moscow's rulers? At least four generations suckled that fear with their mother's milk. A mighty waste if it were not used and kept limber for tomorrow's pointed purpose. Just how hard do you think it is to create out of thin air, aversion so profound as to be indelible on a population's psyche.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Nov 25, 2016 11:44:08 AM | 17
i want to see MOA as the bad guy in hollywood scripts... they can't keep on using germans, russians, indians and groups like that.. they need to stretch out a bit!!
Posted by: james | Nov 25, 2016 11:54:00 AM | 18
Monsieur "moon Of alabama",
Je fais un commentaire en français, pour vous "faire les pieds", autrement dit, vous embêter un peu, vous les anglo-saxons persuadés que tout le monde devrait parler votre langue...
Je m'étonne que vous soyez si fiers d'être cité aux cotés de références américaines sérieuses argumentant le plus possible - les émotions sont parfois difficiles à mettre à distance.
Mais avez-vous conscience que dans certaines autres parties du monde (vous savez, les poussières que tant d'entre vous ont du mal à situer sur la planisphère) vos articles, si précis, si référencés, si sourcés, sont cités parmi les premiers par des sites non moins reconnus pour leur sérieux comme Dedefensa ou Le grandsoir ? (L'un tire plus ou moins à droite, l'autre très ouvertement à gauche ( la vraie, pas les "socialistes" européens) ?
Poursuivez, s'il-vous-plait, votre irremplaçable travail de fouille dans le magma informationnel. Nous vous en sommes infiniment reconnaissants, nous, perdus dans la monstrueuse tâche quotidienne - forcément de plus en plus lourde - de la survie dans l'esclavage moderne.
Allez ! Google translate est ton ami !
Posted by: Marianne | Nov 25, 2016 12:14:14 PM | 19
"Speaking the truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act".
It's ironic that a genuine propaganda outlet like WaPo is pointing fingers at the only sites worth reading.
Posted by: telescope | Nov 25, 2016 1:14:00 PM | 20
Well b, you have really gotten under their skin. Good work!
Posted by: Copeland | Nov 25, 2016 1:30:31 PM | 22
Marianne, @ 19, j'apprécie ton commentaire, suis depuis le début sur MoA. juste pour dire que cela ne passe pas inaperçu, nous sommes plusieurs ici du monde francophone, salutations. N.
Posted by: Noirette | Nov 25, 2016 1:37:55 PM | 23
saker also on list
Posted by: Center | Nov 25, 2016 1:41:42 PM | 24
@19 Salutations notre estimé ami français. Ce n'est pas trop un problème, le français parlant. J'ai dû rire du commentaire, le peu de poussière sur le reste du planisphère. Oui, il est vrai, nous sommes des gens extrêmement ignorants et surtout pas aimablement. Je pense que notre élection de 2016 illustre la vérité de la «Société du spectacle» de Guy DeBord, n'est-ce pas?
Posted by: Ruben Chandler | Nov 25, 2016 2:46:56 PM | 25
Pour les Français qui consultent MOA, rassurez moi, vous connaissez l'UPR ?
Posted by: Charlesg | Nov 25, 2016 2:52:41 PM | 26
@26 J'espere surtout qu'ils connaissent Saint-Just. C'est toujours utile, et le sera de plus en plus.
That's a funny list, just like the EU setting up their own propaganda outlet to counter "anti-EU" propaganda.
As if the bulk of mainstream media weren't pure propaganda for the US, and to a lesser extent for the uber-capitalist European Union.
As implied by Yul @3, at least, Moon of Alabama and many of these listed sites didn't cause 1 million Iraqi deaths last decade - heck, they or their writers were openly against that war and were busy debunking the ridiculous WaPo/NYT claims of Saddam ready to nuke the world...
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 25, 2016 3:10:09 PM | 27
So, neo-McCarthyism is a thing after all. After starring in Syriana, it's only fitting that George Clooney be the first Hollywood celebrity before the Hosed Un-American Affairs Committee.
Interview with screenwriter/director.
Posted by: stumpy | Nov 25, 2016 3:14:48 PM | 28
@19 because deplorables are too lazy to learn second languages, the rest of the world has, in exasperation, found it easier to use English. French is a beautiful language, once the so-called language of diplomacy. Once real diplomacy died, we chose the language of Wall Street, or Fleet Street as the case may be.
Or, as Google would say,
@ 19 parce que les déplorables sont trop paresseux pour apprendre des langues secondes, le reste du monde a, dans l'exaspération, trouvé plus facile à utiliser l'anglais. Le français est une belle langue, autrefois la soi-disant langue de la diplomatie. Une fois la véritable diplomatie décédée, nous avons choisi la langue de Wall Street, ou Fleet Street, selon le cas.
Posted by: stumpy | Nov 25, 2016 3:23:00 PM | 29
PropOrNot is a Resource
We call on the American public to:
- Be aware that Russia is trying to supplant actual journalism (that has editors and fact checkers who impose accountability for mistakes), with fake-"media" online propaganda that Russia influences or controls.
- Spread the word: Russia is attempting to manipulate the American people through online propaganda.
- Obtain news from actual reporters, who report to an editor and are professionally accountable for mistakes. We suggest NPR, the BBC, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, Buzzfeed, VICE, etc, and especially your local papers and local TV news channels. Support them by subscribing, if you can!
We call on Congressional leadership, and the Obama administration, to:
- Immediately begin investigations to determine whether any U.S. government action or inaction has allowed Russia to manipulate the US domestic political process, and interfere in the 2016 election, through online propaganda.
- Immediately begin investigations to determine whether, by action or inaction, the American public has been deprived of related information that they need to vote in an informed manner.
- Work with our European allies to disconnect Russia from the SWIFT financial transaction system [source: Euromaidan Press – LMAO], effective immediately and lasting for at least one year, as an appropriate response to Russian manipulation of the election.
○ A guide to Russian propaganda. Part 1: Propaganda prepares Russia for war
○ Why Americans fall for Kremlin Propaganda
About the author: Kseniya Kirillova is a Russian journalist that focuses on analyzing Russian society, political processes in modern Russia and the Russian-Ukrainian conflict. She writes for Radio Liberty and other outlets and is an expert of the Center for Army, Conversion, and Disarmament Studies and the Free Russia foundation.
Posted by: Oui | Nov 25, 2016 3:49:04 PM | 31
james | Nov 25, 2016 11:54:00 AM | 18
'Fake News' needs the Reefer Madness treatment - after reading MoA, SST, & the Duran, I was so hopped up, I beat my wife and trashed the record player!
Posted by: Enrico Malatesta | Nov 25, 2016 3:56:08 PM | 32
Werte @Marianne @19,
wenn Du Deinen Kommentar auf Deutsch schreiben würdest könnte ich den sogar lesen. So bleibt uns wohl nur eine Sprache zu nutzen die wir beide, wenn auch mit Mühe, verstehen. Ein Vorteil ist dabei. Viele andere aus ganz fremden Ländern können dann auch mitreden.
Posted by: b | Nov 25, 2016 3:58:35 PM | 33
Eliot Higgins has let the world know that he has never heard of that PropOrNot thing, and not only him:
.@ggreenwald No-one I've spoken to listed as "allies" on their site had even heard of them before the WP piece.
I'm afraid that fame could be short-lived when GG has stuck it to the WP,b! ;o)
Posted by: CE | Nov 25, 2016 5:04:11 PM | 35
"Obtain news from actual reporters, who report to an editor and are professionally accountable for mistakes. We suggest NPR, the BBC, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, Buzzfeed, VICE, etc, and especially your local papers and local TV news channels. Support them by subscribing, if you can!"
LOL. It's nice to see the desperation of this lying scum.
Posted by: telescope | Nov 25, 2016 5:05:16 PM | 36
Some non english open threads wld be fun and definitely 'new'
on the web!!
Why not give it a try? After all b does not discuss the
us in priority but the whole planet. It might bring ppl who're
afraid to write bad english but have important news on other
corners of the world.
Posted by: Mina | Nov 25, 2016 5:19:47 PM | 37
Congratulations Bernhard on being named on the new resources list at ProPornbot.com (or whatever) - soon to be the most widely consulted and shared page on that site!
Time to cover yourself in glory - you've definitely earned it!
Posted by: Jen | Nov 25, 2016 5:28:21 PM | 38
@32 Enrico Malatesta.. i think you're right! goes with 'george orwell world' we have arrived at thanks all the bullshit the msm want to feed us..
Posted by: james | Nov 25, 2016 5:42:18 PM | 39
This is almost as good as being on Nixon's enemies list. Almost all of the websites I read are on this list. Kudos to MoA for being included on this honor roll. It must be very satisfying. Well done!
Posted by: Edward | Nov 25, 2016 6:02:03 PM | 40
ProPornoT needs to rethink its name, lol!
Posted by: ruralito | Nov 25, 2016 7:17:33 PM | 41
Another way to avoid the brain-destroying fungus Cordyceps! embedded into the skulls of unwary hosts through the media is to understand that the crimes charged to the Righteous are the self-same crimes actually committed or contemplated by their accusers.
Posted by: ruralito | Nov 25, 2016 7:28:41 PM | 42
I was poking around the site looking for leads since who ever posted said some of them prefer to be anonymous. Reading down the FAQ - the last entry is as follows:
The YYYcampaignYYY is in part a direct response to the anti-Semitic, alt-right triple-parentheses (((echoes))) campaign, which, like it has done in the past, Russian propaganda uses and helped amplify. Unlike parentheses, YYYs show up in search queries and can be used to track crowdsourced identification of Russian propaganda over time. The YYY does not stand for anything specifically, but we are fans of the band The Yeah Yeah Yeahs, who have nothing to do with Russian propaganda.
Click the 'Yeah Yeah Yeahs' link. Seems almost like an admission that the whole thing is a joke - What do you make of that?
Also, can anyone tell me if there is such a thing as 'anti-Semitic alt-right triple-parantheses'?
Posted by: Judith | Nov 25, 2016 8:39:17 PM | 43
"Mainstream Reporting Foggy While MoA Smeared As "Russian Propaganda" Site"
I'm not sure how much of a 'smear' it is for MoA to be included in a list of truth-seeking sources. I'd call it an unintended compliment/consequence.
What the World's Second ex-SuperPower (AmeriKKKa) laughably describes as The International Community is in fact merely a collection of once-powerful Christian Colonial Countries whose bribed leaders have exchanged National Sovereignty, Independence and Democracy (Govt by the people, for the people) for MONEY to become vassals of AmeriKKKan influence.
Unfortunately, part of this deal with The Great Satan (AmeriKKKa) is that the West's bribed leaders have agreed that they'll ignore the Will of the People and substitute Lecturing for Listening.
Fortunately, The People are waking up to the fact that their leaders don't listen and are voting with their feet. A symptom of this emerging New Reality is that a significant proportion of the West's studiously ignored citizens, when asked to name an admirable leader, reply Vladimir Putin. It's getting to the stage, in Oz, where deaf Oz politicians who criticise Putin are regarded as jealous and/or ignorant and tone-deaf.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 25, 2016 9:05:46 PM | 44
Syrian War Report – November 25, 2016: Syrian Army & YPG Launch Joint Advance East of Aleppo video
The Syrian army and the Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG) launched a joint military operation against the ISIS terrorist group east of Aleppo city on November 24. Their forces reportedly liberated at least 2 villages in the area: Sheikh Kife and Nirbeh. Pro-government sources also argue that they liberated Juba and Halisah, but they had alredy been in the hands of YPG. Clashes between pro-government force and ISIS were also reported near Tal Shair.
The joint advance of Syrian government and YPG forces took place following the recent escalations between them and Turkish-led forces across Syria. On November 23, in northern Latakia, Turkish artillery units delivered strikes against the Syrian army, reportedly killing up to 80 soldiers. On November 24, the Syrian Air Force allegedly hit Turkish army units deployed in the countryside of al-Bab, killing at least 3 soldiers. Ankara threatened to retaliate to the attack, according to Prime Minister Binali Yildirim. Intense fighting between Turkey-led forces and Kurdish YPG units has been ongoing west of Arimah since November 22.
If the army-YPG cooperation east of Aleppo is confirmed to be a full-scale advance, it will mean that the Syrian government and its Kurdish allies have decided to build a buffer zone west of al-Bab to prevent the Turkish military from expanding its presence into central Syria. In this case, a major escalation against Syrian army and Kurdish YPG forces the only way to seize al-Bab for Turkey.
So in the upcoming war between Syria and Turkey, which side are the Russians on? Could be a good opportunity to demonstrate the effectiveness of their S-400 defense system. As well as their SU-25s and helicopters as anti-armor defense.
The US has backed off, claiming that the Turkish adventure has nothing to do with their "anti-terrorist" coalition's efforts to unseat Assad, I mean defeat al-CIAduh/ISIS, in Syria. Sounds like an invitation to the Russians to kick Erdogan's ass for them.
Or can the Russians just cite all of the above and just talk Erdogan out of it?
Posted by: jfl | Nov 25, 2016 9:18:17 PM | 45
Newsflash: Corrupt warmongers don't want to be exposed.
Bank malfeasance (sub-prime crisis, fraudclosure, market manipulation, moneylaundering), influence peddling and using extremists as a weapon of state didn't just happen.
Hurray for the "deplorables"!
Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 25, 2016 9:21:19 PM | 46
Congratulations on making the list.
Posted by: Secret Agent | Nov 25, 2016 9:24:49 PM | 47
Duly noted b, and congratulations on making the "list" - of places I can trust to find out what's really going on.
Also congratulations on championing MoA into the big leagues. Been keeping a "quiet" eye here these past years and am most impressed!
Posted by: annamissed | Nov 25, 2016 11:01:50 PM | 49
From your Max Blumenthal
Among the websites listed by PropOrNot as “allies” are a number of groups funded by the U.S. government or NATO. They include InterpreterMag , an anti-Russian media monitoring blog funded through Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, an arm of the U.S. government, which is edited by the hardline neoconservative Michael Weiss. Polygraph Fact Check , another project of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty aimed at Russian misinformation, is listed as an “ally.” So is Bellingcat, the crowdsourced military analysis blog run by Elliot Higgins through the Atlantic Council , which receives funding from the U.S. State Department, various Gulf monarchies and the weapons industry. (Bellingcat is directly funded by Google, according to Higgins. )
Google, Facebook, Twitter ... the NSA privatized
Posted by: jfl | Nov 25, 2016 11:27:35 PM | 50
As I look at the list I think there are patterns to who got listed and which outlets were recommended. But you know, this is not about the black listed sites as Russian propaganda conduits. Look at the list. The big picture is that the blacklisted sites offer alternative points of view to the establishment press and media which protect corporate interests, act as government stenographers, etc. Even ones that people think of as right wing offer alternative views and information from the sitting powers in the media.
It is no wonder as various pundits mentioned, there is no knowledge about who funds the group and their identities. That information would quickly expose them.
The big picture aim is not to counter Russian propaganda but to squash basic dissent and it looks like to me from that point of view, propornot has done one excellent job of identifying highly effective dissenting websites. Very good joke about "hey thanks for all the good bookmarks" in sense reveals the blacklisted websites as quality sources of information.
Posted by: Erelis | Nov 26, 2016 1:00:59 AM | 52
Re: Posted by: jfl | Nov 25, 2016 9:18:17 PM | 45
The Russians have just signed a bunch of important pipeline deals with Turkey have they not? They'll have to side with Turkey.
Or will they.
Bit of a dilemma for the Russians, but on the other hand, haven't the Bulgarians (that other route for South Stream) just elected a relatively pro-Russian President???
Plus ca change eh.
I'd posit that al-Bab is neither here nor there for the Russians, but for the Syrians it seems like a red-line.........
Posted by: Jules | Nov 26, 2016 1:20:07 AM | 53
b @ 30
Love your response to Tom @ 19
"Accusing me of writing/not writing of blahblahblah or whatever before even having started to read my stuff is so brain-dead that I wonder how such folks manage to wipe their asses.
Maybe they don't?"
Too funny, your truly a man after my own heart : )
Seems some people are on here only to try and put somebody down or pick a fight, instead of wipping their own asses first. I call that a bully, who needs a good shit kicking in the head.
Posted by: RayB | Nov 26, 2016 2:22:10 AM | 54
Ok it was a joke :) a way to tease you by taking a common place on American blinders. I suspect that people here are more open. Greetings to the German friend :)) and thank you for the attention you have given me :))
Posted by: Marianne | Nov 26, 2016 2:36:11 AM | 55
I had a look at all 204 sites. Ok a very quick look ;) ... and pruned them back to what turned out to be fifty known to be of interest, or that looked interesting.
Thanks to propornot.com for the initial winnowing. They could do a little better though, experts that they are, I had to toss what, 154 of 204? I suppose most people would have to do at least the same.
It's hard to believe that this was seriously undertaken. Goes to show, you can never underestimate the neolibraconian msm.
Posted by: jfl | Nov 26, 2016 3:07:10 AM | 56
Hilarious, the next step is for the WP to say they have been fooled by Russian spies who sold them the story and actually stand behind the anonymous porn-news-makers.
The way the WP article describes the methods sounds like these are the very tricks used in the coloured revolutions so they have a certain facility to describe it in detail. Not a word of some famous hoaxes in which the MSM failed, and how come the New Yorker is not in the list!! A very dangerous magazine which has uncovered nasty things about Iraq and Syria more than once.
I wonder what will FB/Twitter do with the Arab media, controlled at 90 % by the Saudis, and where fake news are just daily bread.
Anyway, all these intrusive buttons on each single website are so intrusive, eating part of my screen, obliging webmasters to adapt to what stays a commercial technology, that it is high time to get read of these and evolve to a better internet.
Posted by: Mina | Nov 26, 2016 4:07:58 AM | 57
Just too good to be true ... has Sputnik reacted?
Very suspect that a Russian double agent has infiltrated EuromaidanPress
to set up PropOrNot ... It's Putin to blame! Kudos!
Posted by: Oui | Nov 26, 2016 4:08:05 AM | 58
Pornornot carry on in upbeat mood:
When you look at it with a tiny bit of common sense, you have to conclude this is satire.
Or maybe a hoax, involving a Russian double agent who sells "fake news" to WashPo, thereby proving #fakenews is alive, and that it in fact comes from "Russians" ....
Posted by: Qoppa | Nov 26, 2016 9:21:39 AM | 62
Wow. Let's regulate the way people send news on Facebook and then we'll regulate the way people express themselves on Twitter, and then we'll regulate how people Snapchat (some filters are really a threat to democracy), and then we'll regulate the kind of photographs that people post in Instagram.
In general, it is better to regulate the way people think, express and behave so that they do not represent a corrosion of democracy. Welcome to the future neoliberal Echo Chamber, where censorship and control are used to protect democracy and intellectual debate or the challenge of different ideas are unknown concepts.
Posted by: Cynthia | Nov 26, 2016 2:24:07 PM | 63
Now here's the anticipated Greenwald rant. In Conclusio:
Indeed, what happened here is the essence of fake news. The Post story served the agendas of many factions: those who want to believe Putin stole the election from Hillary Clinton; those who want to believe that the internet and social media are a grave menace that needs to be controlled, in contrast to the objective truth which reliable old media outlets once issued; those who want a resurrection of the Cold War. So those who saw tweets and Facebook posts promoting this Post story instantly clicked and shared and promoted the story without an iota of critical thought or examination of whether the claims were true, because they wanted the claims to be true. That behavior included countless journalists.
So the story spread in a flash, like wildfire. Tens of thousands of people, perhaps hundreds of thousands or even millions, consumed it, believing that it was true because of how many journalists and experts told them it was. Virtually none of the people who told them this spent a minute of time or ounce of energy determining if it was true. It pleased them to believe it was, knowing it advanced their interests, and so they endorsed it. That is the very definition of how fake news functions, and it is the ultimate irony that this Post story ended up illustrating and spreading far more fake news than it exposed.
Posted by: CE | Nov 26, 2016 2:27:39 PM | 64
When you look at the media they recommend, and at the smileys in their tweets (see Greenwald's article) you think immediately to ... the Libyan/Syrian PR rebels. NPR? VICE? these are the guys they have been most in contact with. It also comes right on time with the current demonization of Assange and Wikileaks in the US as pro-Trump
Posted by: Mina | Nov 26, 2016 3:00:02 PM | 66
the "researchers" mentioned in the wp article have produced that 2 weeks ago
where an article which they claim was attacking al Asad launched answers from several type of users; the problem being that the article was rather critical of the rebels, so the point they are trying to make does not work
Sorry Fidel! Your memory is very much alive! Pure cold war style.
Posted by: Mina | Nov 26, 2016 3:16:53 PM | 67
Today, this delusional guy was explaining a sceptic journalist that "there might be a few islamists in Aleppo East but just a few", that the people who live there did not want to leave because there are their houses and they have nowhere else to go, and that the people who had tried to take the corridors to leave had been attacked at the checkpoints by the Syrian army.
When asked if it was still realistic now than Trump was saying he could talk with Putin, he said that it was a bit more complicate now with Brexit and Trump but that certainly if was the right time for Europe to get united and have a common security.
Seems that the fact 4 EU countries strictly refuse the entrance of Syrian refugees does not trouble him.
Posted by: Mina | Nov 26, 2016 3:42:38 PM | 69
Hilarious!!! When Junker is sober he can say interesting things!
“We, the European Union, have links with regimes that are odious. And nobody asks us about it. Everybody’s worried about Turkey, but nobody’s talking about Saudi Arabia,” he said.
Posted by: Mina | Nov 26, 2016 3:53:45 PM | 70
Government !?! Did somebody say government?
"Syrian government forces have retaken the largest rebel-controlled district in eastern Aleppo, state media report.
The capture of Masaken Hanano, in north-east Aleppo, could give Syria's army line-of-fire control over other opposition-held areas, activists say.
The government resumed its offensive to retake eastern Aleppo on 15 November. Some 275,000 people are under siege."
Posted by: dh | Nov 26, 2016 4:31:18 PM | 71
Syrian Army, Kurdish forces liberate more territory from ISIS in east Aleppo
Led by the Republican Guard, the Syrian Arab Army managed to liberate the small village of Umm Ahmad Al-Talatin after overrunning the Islamic State's main defensive line this afternoon.
In addition to liberating the village of Umm Ahmad Al-Talatin, the Syrian Arab Army has captured a number of small hilltops en route to the strategic radar base located directly west of Al-Bab.
The Syrian Armed Forces were able to make these rapid gains today, thanks in large-part to the Kurdish-led "Syrian Democratic Forces" (SDF), who have applied pressure on the Islamic State's positions in the north.
Are the Kurds the SAA's new best friends, again?
Syrian Air Forces launch third bombing raid on Turkish, 'FSA' camp
Ahmed Hani, an activist from the Kurdish self-defense forces, writes: “URGENT: Assad’s military planes have attacked a Turkish military camp in the village of Azraq. Casualties have been reported. A Turkish tank is on fire.” He added: “There was an attack yesterday as well. Today, Russian and Assad’s planes also bombed a military base of FSA groups in Azraq.”
The Kurds are the only ones to mention Russian planes.
Radical Saudi cleric calls on Turkey to attack the Syrian Army
Radical Saudi cleric, Sheikh 'Abdullah Muhaysni, told a TV reporter this week that Turkey must intervene in Syria to defeat the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) and government.
"How long will Turkey and its people allow the regime's oppression to continue?" the radical cleric said in the interview.
"Why doesn't Turkey use its powerful army against the Syrian regime; it is their duty," Muhaysni added.
Let's you and them fight! The Saudis are all for the Turkish occupation of Northern Syria.
Iran, Turkey need to interact on Mideast stability: Rouhani
Iranian President Hassan Rouhani says consultations between Iran and Turkey will contribute to the promotion of peace and stability in the Middle East.
He said safeguarding territorial integrity and maintaining national unity in Iraq and Syria, forming the governments in these two countries based on the principles of democracy, preventing the killing of people and destroying infrastructure as well as helping refugees return to their homelands are among measures which need to be conducted to solve regional crises.
Safe guarding territorial integrity ... I wonder if he means that can cut two ways? Turks grab Northern Syria, Kurds grab Southeast Turkey?
Meanwhile, the USA is making more 'mistakes', performing as ISAF, helping ISIS, in Iraq this time.
US missile strikes Iraqi forces’ command tent in Tal Afar: Hashd al-Shaabi
The Popular Mobilization Units (PMU), also known as Hashd al-Shaabi forces, in Iraq say the US-led coalition fired a missile at their command tent at the recently liberated Tal Afar Airport after Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi met with commanders there.
In a statement released on Friday, the PMU said that the attack took place on Thursday and left several people injured.
[T]he missile landed one meter and a half from the PMU commanders’ tent while a drone belonging to the US-led coalition was up in the sky.
The PMU called on the US-led alliance to provide an explanation for the incident, noting that it will announce the findings of the probe after its conclusion.
And just so there's no mistake, Junker chimes in ...
Juncker defends relations with ‘odious regimes’ like Saudi Arabia
“We have relations with all dictatorships because we need to organize, to co-organize the world,” he [The European Commission’s President Jean-Claude Juncker] added.
... that 'organize' was just a slip ... he meant 'co-organize' ... not like the bad old days. Really.
Posted by: jfl | Nov 26, 2016 5:43:18 PM | 72
Congrats. So many of my daily blog roll made it. You are in excellent company. Digital samizdat. I hope your page hits go way up
Posted by: Anunnaki | Nov 26, 2016 10:06:49 PM | 75
I had noticed trolls on some websites already responding to people's comments by putting their screen name with YYY around it. PropOrNot says that by putting YYY around someones name, they will be able to keep track of people that way over time. Example: YYYPropOrNotYYY.
Posted by: OH | Nov 26, 2016 10:09:43 PM | 76
So here is a quotes from Google that I found interesting
“Moving forward,” said Google in a statement to Reuters, “we will restrict ad serving on pages that misrepresent, misstate, or conceal information about the publisher, the publisher’s content, or the primary purpose of the web property.”
The link to the article it was in:
So then I went to the propornot.com and they have no advertisements so won't be affected by the Google position
Another quote from the article....the last sentence says it all
Traditionally, the misinformation business was reserved for the higher end of the news production cycle: a William Randolph Hearst, a Rupert Murdoch, or a director of propaganda operations in a government (totalitarian or otherwise) ever enthusiastic about spinning the story. The difference now is that the arm of dissimulation has been extended – to the ordinary citizen who has a huge array of sharing functions and social media platforms to spread a word.
Information in this era, being treated as some magic gold dust, is being packaged and fed to the public via various mediums. The only thing interesting about this aspect is the democratisation of production and dissemination. We are all potential directors of the fake news industry.
We are all potential directors of the fake news industry.......We are all potential directors of the real news industry
Voltaire gave us this quote: “History is the lie commonly agreed upon.” I think we are in a state where that common agreement has broken down and believe that is a good thing for society in general. My sincere hope is that we focus on the fact of the lie part of history that is filled with human hubris about our place in the Cosmos we know so little about but create and honor Gods in our likeness.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 26, 2016 10:15:18 PM | 77
Brexit, The Don, with more likely to come in Italy in France. Haha, the zionist MSM (((publishing house))) Hollywood formula fakery doesn't work anymore, huh...? ...get the popcorn, democracy is alive and kicking...the usual psychological switches and levers are not garnering the trusted popular response anymore. Best to pour shit on the digital revolution and accuse it of the same crime it has been guilty of for the ages.
Deceptive words by Google. Wasnt their corporate catchphrase 'dont be evil'. They need to stay out of politics and just search my shit. I sincerely hope that Google is not the force that brings AI to the point of singularity or we're screwed. Such a planetary changing swing between good or evil should not fall to those privateers who jump into bed with the guvna and do it's bidding on the sly... google knows what you had for breakfast... Slutty
Posted by: MadMax2 | Nov 27, 2016 12:00:56 AM | 78
I don't post here. Or at least I didn't. I read MOA daily and was proud that you were on the list. It's a great badge of honow.
Posted by: eddielaidler | Nov 27, 2016 2:18:08 AM | 79
We are a collective of bloggers and dedicated sites and we would be very pleased to appear on your list. We feel our inclusion is timely as we all engage in Russian propaganda. Thank you in advance for considering our request. Please feel free to contact us should you require any further information about any of our pro-Russia sites.
allabouthamster. com, slowcooking .az, vodkavodka. rs, tarot_for_everyman. edu, spicendice123. com, plastichairsfree. cu, envowaterblue. ch, mazelabyrs. org, kremlincolors. rs, tangerineskin. eu, bravothecavalry. gb, russiandollspink. rs ……..
—to my amazement 5 of the sites i invented actually exist, so i inserted a space to prevent linking
Posted by: Noirette | Nov 27, 2016 5:22:44 AM | 80
A question for techies: on an phone running Android 3, there was the option to have websites appearing with no pictures (saves a limited prepaid). Is it possible on the commonly used browsers? I just hate twitter pages to take so long because of all the fancy frames and pics everywhere. I do know adblock and adblock ultimate of course that kill a few buttons on most websites, but if there is anything that work fine for people who like text more than pics, please tell me.
Posted by: Mina | Nov 27, 2016 7:59:25 AM | 82
One of the most puzzling sites included on Jeff Bezos' list is the uss liberty veterans association. This is a site run by the veterans of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty ... it forces one to conclude that it's criticism of the USG and its past actions that 'merits' inclusion on the list. That criticism of the USG is being billed - unapologetically - as 'reliably echoing Russian propaganda'.
Doesn't Jeff realize how much that weakens whatever argument he thought that he had for his list to begin with? I guess he's just pitching his new demographic ... the people predisposed to 2 minute hates, the ones who don't need a reason.
Well, it's his blog, I guess. And I guess his mouthpiece was inexpensive to him. He only paid $250 million for it: 0.25 billion. Chump change in San Francisco. Hell, he got more than $600 million from the CIA in a single storage contract. I guess this and posts like this are payback for that and, undoubtedly, other contracts with the AC/DC three-letter agencies.
Posted by: jfl | Nov 27, 2016 8:44:34 AM | 83
OT but apparently Syria has a government now. This has replaced to regime at least according to the BBC.
Could it have something to do with the SAA's recent success....or maybe Trump?
"Syrian government forces have retaken a second rebel-held district in eastern Aleppo, military sources say.
They say the army and its allies had "fully recaptured" Jabal Badro.
Hours earlier, rebel sources confirmed that neighbouring Hanano district had fallen and was now under government control."
Posted by: dh | Nov 27, 2016 11:09:43 AM | 84
Israeli air strike kills four Islamic State-linked gunmen on Golan
The militants fired at the Israeli soldiers, who were on the Israeli-controlled territory, from a vehicle driving along the Syrian side of the Golan
Except this time, instead of aiding their jihadi allies by targeting Syrian government forces, Israeli warplanes struck their armored vehicle instead. So what happened? Simple miscommunication? Confusion in the fog of war? Wrongful procedure of things?
Posted by: never mind | Nov 27, 2016 11:18:16 AM | 85
@82 Mina, try the Vivaldi browser. It has a button near the bottom right to turn off images (among tons of other useful stuff).
Posted by: CE | Nov 27, 2016 11:56:49 AM | 86
Thanks! indeed i had downloaded it but it is a bit slower than ffx/chrome unfortunately; maybe without pics it will speed up
Posted by: Mina | Nov 27, 2016 12:58:20 PM | 88
It's finished in Aleppo, isn't it? They're beginning to run.
Posted by: Laguerre | Nov 27, 2016 1:03:21 PM | 89
Vivaldi report: not fluid enough, audio problem, and worse of all, can't open a new tab without jumping to it. Looks great but where is the ad-block or is it enough to turn off pics?
Posted by: Mina | Nov 27, 2016 2:51:16 PM | 90
Looks like Propornot is EU-financed outlet staffed mostly by Ukrainians.
Posted by: telescope | Nov 27, 2016 3:00:41 PM | 91
I was sure a name like that could not have been imagined by Americans. Sounds too much like "pro-porno". Any native PR guys would have noticed.
Good to see again the solidarity between Ukrainian nazis and Syrian "rebels".
Posted by: Mina | Nov 27, 2016 3:10:00 PM | 93
@mina, pro-porno fits them to a 't'.
Perhaps the most salient characteristic of their proscription list is its inaccuracy.
Pro-Porno-t is an independent team of concerned American citizens with a wide range of backgrounds and expertise, including professional experience in computer science, statistics, public policy, and national security affairs. We are currently volunteering time and skills to identify propaganda - particularly Russian propaganda - targeting a U.S. audience. We collect public-record information connecting propaganda outlets to each other and their coordinators abroad, analyze what we find, act as a central repository and point of reference for related information, and organize efforts to oppose it.
Taking time from their day jobs - targeting wedding-parties, funerals, farmers and villagers of all sorts, and the 16 year-old American son of an American father who said things the USG didn't like. 'Collateral damage' is inconsequential to them, even when it dwarfs the population of their intended targets. In fact, the 'intention' is as muddy with pro-porno-t as it has been all along, "For bureaucratic reasons we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, because it was the one reason everyone could agree on"
in the words of Paul Wolfowitz. The real action is DDD&D and feeding the MIC. 'Everyone' has agreed on 'Russian propaganda' in the 'intelligence' community at this point, obviously.
Pro-porno-t is another one of their 'clever' inside jokes, their double entendre, veiling a softcore glimpse at their hardcore profession.
Posted by: jfl | Nov 27, 2016 5:03:48 PM | 94
Paul Craig Roberts has written what looks like an article for ZH about fake news.
The last two paragraphs from the piece:
Western governments are running out of excuses. Since the Clinton regime, the accumulation of war crimes committed by Western governments exceed those of Nazi Germany. Millions of Muslims have been slaughtered, dislocated, and dispossessed in seven countries. Not a single Western war criminal has been held accountable.
The despicable Washington Post is a prime apologist for these war criminals. The entire Western print and TV media is so heavily implicated in the worst war crimes in human history that, if justice ever happens, the presstitutes will stand in the dock with the Clintons, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, Obama and their neocon operatives or handlers as the case may be.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 28, 2016 1:33:55 AM | 95
@duffyDuct – thx for the link
"Some interesting research on the "backers" of PropOrNot."
I added to the narrative under my handle.
Posted by: Oui | Nov 28, 2016 2:01:40 AM | 96
Eric Zuesse on the Anti-truth, Pro-Porno-t(eam) phenom ...
Washington Post gets exposed, and all major U.S. ‘News’ media refuse to report It
And then there are some on the ‘Russian propaganda’ list that I wish would publish me but can’t or don’t, especially stormcloudsgathering and moonofalabama — both terrific sites, which are written and produced by the same inpidual who owns it (and both of which are vastly more truthful than is the Washington Post, though moonofalabama seems to be blind to the falsenesses of Karl Marx and too selective in the truths that are being reported, but some good reporters are communists blind to the falsenesses of Karl Marx, just as some good reporters are libertarians blind to the falsenesses of Adam Smith — ideology is fundamentally different from journalism).
... b is a blind Marxist? ... I always thought he was a closet libertarian. But it makes no difference ... he's trying to nail things as what they are, and he's often very successful. And he's a real Mensch, you can tell, and that counts for more than this or that label, pigeonhole, Procrustean bed ... I'll bet b would let Zuesse comment here. Hell, he lets me comment here, why not Eric Zuesse? Then Zuesse can say he's been published on Moonofalabama.org. As can we all. Thanks b.
Actually, I think even the "major U.S. ‘News’ media" were embarrassed at the sight of Bezos, learing, with his raincoat open, flashing us all. They identified with him so strongly that they went straight to the memory hole with his exhibition. It's erased already. Ask any of them about the Pro-Porno-t(eam) and it'll be, what? who?
Posted by: jfl | Nov 28, 2016 8:17:43 AM | 97
I have to wonder how Lawrence Davidson's site has escaped the Pro-Porno-t(eam) dragnet ...
Trump and the Jews – An Analysis
American Jews now have a rare opportunity. They can realize where their real interests lie and act accordingly. And, as they always have, those interests lie in upholding the universal principles of civil and humanitarian rights. To not do so is to affirm their present alliance with a nation self-destructing on tribalism and racism.
The truth is that Zionism has turned out to be a tragic and potentially fatal mistake. Those who led the Jewish community to support Zionism tied the fate of the U.S. Jews to an apartheid political ideology that has isolated them from much that is decent and progressive in the world.
As problematic as it is, the ascendency of Donald Trump gives the American Jews a second chance to make the right choice, to join with their natural allies and fight for the equal rights of all groups. U.S. Jews should think long and hard about this, for it may well be that their second chance will also be their last chance.
... if that isn't 'reliably echoing Russian propaganda' ... by a 'self-hating Jew' ... then I don't know what is!
I can recommend Lawrence Davidson's tothepointanalyses.com site. I have his rss feed bookmarked. Short and sweet one-pagers that cut to the quick on the issue at hand. The Pro-Porno-t(eam) is missing an all-star on this one. (I had to type in two words - a new addition - to get to LD's site, might be my no-script, and/or ad-block software ;)
Posted by: jfl | Nov 28, 2016 7:45:33 PM | 98
Another notable omission is Sic Sempre Tyrannis. Col. Lang is occasionally critical of US foreign policy. I guess nobody messes with the colonel.
Posted by: dh | Nov 28, 2016 7:54:06 PM | 99
@99 dh 'Col. Lang is occasionally critical of US foreign policy ...'
I'm no expert on his site, but I think the key word there is 'occasionally' ... and definitely not of the system. Very faulty, un-'reliable echo of Russian propaganda' ... his being 'Colonel' might have something to do with that. The criticism is not of the ends but of the means of their realization. Definitely softcore to the Pro-Porno-t(eam).
But they listed so many whacko, UFO, alien and other sites ... one wonders how the little gears of their genius turn.
Posted by: jfl | Nov 28, 2016 8:40:47 PM | 100