Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 05, 2016

Are We To Love Al-Qaeda Or Fear It?

‘I Saw My Father Dying’: A View From Aleppo’s Government-Held Side:

Even as Syria and Russia threatened an all-out assault on the rebel side of Aleppo, saying Friday was the last chance for people there to exit, they had been unable to put down a counteroffensive by a mix of Qaeda-linked and United States-backed insurgent groups.
Three Qaeda-linked suicide bombers attacked a military position with explosive-packed personnel carriers on Thursday, ...

Sources: U.S. intel warning of possible al Qaeda attacks in U.S. Monday

Sources told CBS News senior investigative producer Pat Milton that U.S. intelligence has alerted joint terrorism task forces that al Qaeda could be planning attacks in three states for Monday.
...

‘I Saw My Father Dying’: A View From Aleppo’s Government-Held Side:

Instead, they are trying to break the siege, with Qaeda-linked groups and those backed by the United States working together — the opposite of what Russia has demanded.

Sources: U.S. intel warning of possible al Qaeda attacks in U.S. Monday

The source said there has been pressure on al Qaeda and its affiliates AQAP and AQIS (al Qaeda in the Indian Subcontinent) to regain relevance with its mission.

What is the message the U.S. government is sending with such accounts? Are we to love al-Qaeda or fear it?

Or are we to fall silent in awe of the sheer genius of Obama's strategic planning?

h/t Mark Ames

P.S. That AQ and CIA "rebels" mercenaries are one bunch is, of course, not new. We wrote about Your Moderate Cuddly Homegrown Al-Qaeda since October 2013. What is new is the NYT, the house organ of the U.S. government, now openly reporting it. What is the message in this?

Posted by b on November 5, 2016 at 02:41 PM | Permalink

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more of the same crazy policy of supporting al qaeda while claiming to not support al qaeda.. ka ching, ka ching.. thank you wall st - all the way to the bank..

Posted by: james | Nov 5, 2016 2:53:39 PM | 1

"Genius" is not the term I would use to describe the thoughts and actions of Obama.
I hope he rots in hell.

Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 5, 2016 3:09:09 PM | 2

US must need a new 9/11. Perhaps things are not looking good for Clinton in the polls?

Posted by: Peter AU | Nov 5, 2016 3:12:50 PM | 3

In case anyone is missing the message here: The NYT article is by mouth-breathing trustworthy neocon shill Anne Barnard (often accused of being a journalist by the NYT).

Mark Ames adds this series of tweets for context:

"DC experts so brilliant at 3-D chess they've allied US with Al Qaeda in Syria. Can't understand why public doesn't adore them"

"Rather odd that @nytimes reports US-Al Qaeda alliance in Syria six paragraphs down, as if it's not that newsworthy"

"My sense is reporter and her editor find US-AQ alliance newsworthy, but sneak it in to avoid a shitstorm. We have a very Soviet press"

Another reply sums up my thoughts exactly:

Oedipa Maas ‏@bridgietherease
@MarkAmesExiled it's telling that they aren't even bothering to try rebranding anymore & just assume they'll be able to bury the association

You know things are bad when the U.S. lügenpresse doesn't even put any effort into propping up the smelly narrative de jure.

Yeah... the fall of the Weimar Republic. We're smarter than the Germans - the same thing could never happen here in the U.S.

American citizens: Obey... Consume... Reproduce... Conform... Vote...

Move along folks. Nothing to see here.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Nov 5, 2016 3:19:56 PM | 4

ISIS and the Muslim immigration issue is linked in the Trump campaign. To use ISIS here would only help Trump.

Posted by: Les | Nov 5, 2016 3:25:57 PM | 5

Thanks for the posting b.

It lets me comment about my observation that fear mongering is one goal but another agenda for it is having preparations made to quell unsettled Trump backers if they really can override the real (s)election results.

All of this reminds me of some quotes from a book titled "At the Edge of History" written by William Irwin Thompson back in the early 70's....some quotes from it:
"
Between the cracked-open minds of the enthusiasts of lost tribes, lost continents, and flying saucers and the firmly shut minds of the scholars, it is a very difficult to find a healthy way of using one’s head.
"
"
When men are trained to strive for power over their environment [via science and technology], they are socially constrained to achieve that success through suppression of consciousness in which ambiguity, complexity, feeling, intuition and imagination are dismissed as irrelevant distractions….. And this is what “the aerospace syndrome” is all about. Operating with a strictly logical and mechanistic model of self, MIT training reduces the self’s truly complex nature to a few relatively standard industrial functions.
"
"
And what the adolescent engineer rehearses in miniature in his fantasied relations with women, he is even freer to do at large with nature, for the instinctive play of our technology is the exploitation of passive, female nature in a celebration of power and phallic dominance. In keeping with this sexual mythology of rational male dominance over irrational female nature we have constructed an ideology of progress that places our industrial culture at the pinnacle of human civilization.
"
"
When information is so immense that man cannot keep up with it and still be purely rational, he has a choice: he can freak out and become tribal again to attack the old naïve rational values in the guise of a Luddite-student; or he can effect a quantum leap in consciousness to re-vision the universe….re-vision the universe in the mystical, mathematical, and scientific forms of the new Pythagoreanism….
"

What I faulted WI Thompson for back then and to this day was the absence of any thoughts about the world of finance, and specifically the private finance that is, IMO, along with associate unfettered inheritance, the core cancer in our current form of social organization in the West.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 5, 2016 3:33:04 PM | 6

ALL BS & puppet theater, repeated in an endless merry-go-round.
Example, here's the "branded" official 2 minutes of hate dude they tried to re-cast in the aura of super villain Binny, & failed badly.
I bet a poll on any street would show 99% never heard of him.
Some say he was offed these past few weeks in a battle there in either Iraq or Syria...who cares! All fabricated fairy tales.
Maybe he'd have caught on if they had dressed him in some homeland gang colors & tattoos, instead.

TEHRAN (FNA)- Security sources in Nineveh province said the alleged voice message of ISIL Leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is only a media sham to provide the ground for Turkey's incursion into Iraq.

"Al-Baghdadi's voice has been recorded by ISIL's voice recording experts and it has been done over two weeks ago or concurrent with the start of the Mosul liberation operations," the Arabic-language al-Sumeriya news channel quoted an unnamed security source as saying on Saturday, rejecting the claims that the message has been recorded recently.
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13950815000988

Posted by: schlub | Nov 5, 2016 3:45:15 PM | 7

# 2 & 4 Thanks

Thanks b

Posted by: jo6pac | Nov 5, 2016 3:51:58 PM | 8

Buried or not, it's encouraging that the NYT is publishing some facts about the rebels at all. I wonder, why now?

Posted by: Tircuit | Nov 5, 2016 3:54:57 PM | 9

Pepe Escobar has reported that the upper echelon of the "Masters" no longer agrees with Imperial Middle East policy, and calling out the illegal alliance between the Outlaw US Empire and al-CIAda is one way to light a bon fire--against--HRC without saying as much in so many words. https://www.rt.com/op-edge/365204-clinton-us-investigation-justice/

As I wrote previously, NY Times confirms my hypothesis of Outlaw US Empire supporting terrorists against both domestic and international law thus legalizing the withholding of taxes from said government.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 5, 2016 4:17:04 PM | 10

As soon as AQ takes over the government of Syria, Assad gets the rectal treatment and Hizbullah is destroyed, AQ will either disband or become pro-Western. At that point they will give up any claim to the Golan, the Russians will leave and Syria will have no air defences. So goes the thinking. If they choose to continue their wicked ways they will be bombed.

Posted by: dh | Nov 5, 2016 4:27:30 PM | 11

@11 We came, we saw, etc.....haw, haw.

Posted by: dh | Nov 5, 2016 4:31:37 PM | 12

About the fear thing.....I wonder what sort of fear led to this

http://denverguardian.com/2016/11/05/fbi-agent-suspected-hillary-email-leaks-found-dead-apparent-murder-suicide/

Nastiness all around. Lets hope it gets resolved soon w/o too much more bloodshed.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 5, 2016 4:34:05 PM | 13

I've been saying for some time that victims of terrorism are simply 'collateral damage'.

One can not understand what is going on unless one draws the distinction between the ruled led and the rulers.

The cult-like neolibcon rulers in the West are allied with terrorism. It is useful for destabilizing regimes that they don't like and manipulating domestic populations - especially wrt acceptance of a police state.

Those who point the finger at "the West" or faults of the "American people" are completely off-base. They are blaming the victim. And cursing the darkness instead of lighting a candle.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 5, 2016 4:47:19 PM | 14

@13 psychohistorian.. thanks.

Posted by: james | Nov 5, 2016 5:15:48 PM | 15

6

I like Fukuyama better:

"It was the Canaanite's continuing desire for recognition that was the motor which propelled history forward, not the idle complacency and unchanging self-identity of the Pharaohs.”

"For Hillary, Freedom was not just a psychological phenomenon, but the essence of what was distinctively called Order. Order does not mean the freedom to live in according to natural laws; rather, Order begins only where Liberty ends."

"The Nation-State will continue to be a shiney-object pole of identification for the Proletariat, even as more and more nations are subsumed under common economic and political forms of un-elected supra-national Oligarchy.”

Now you must vote, you must accept the outcome, then get back to work.

That's an Order. This is the End of History.

Posted by: chipnik | Nov 5, 2016 5:22:31 PM | 16

11

As pointed out years ago, the moment the Syrian defenses are gone, and UN 'peace keeping' troops occupy the military bases and disable the radars, at that precise moment, on that New-Moon of Sharon night, Israel will launch their dark-alley nuclear attack on Tehran, and claim the reactor at Anarak blew up.
They will use the bunker-busters and be refueled by air tankers Biden sold them.
Then Deep State will shudder slightly, pause, and metastasize even larger still.

Posted by: chipnik | Nov 5, 2016 5:37:47 PM | 17

Fifteen years after 9/11, the NY Times casually drops that the US is supporting/allied with al Qaeda. The implications are staggering--not least that the fuckers would let it drop so casually.

Posted by: NoOneYouKnow | Nov 5, 2016 5:46:33 PM | 18

Tidy little summary of the process at 'Arab Spring' and the Washington-Brussels-Riyadh Axis, highlighting Obama-Brennan's 'embracing and extending' al-CIAduh as the tool of Western imperialism.

The NYTimes is in the vanguard of the plutoteriat. They've just come out of the closet. Al-CIAduh are 'good' : they are the one half of the proletariat we've hired to kill the other half. Interesting to see how long it takes CBS to catch the drift in the breeze.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 5, 2016 6:15:44 PM | 19

@20

... the one-half we use abroad. We've got the cops on the same case at home.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 5, 2016 6:18:23 PM | 20

@ chipnik

Thanks for the Fukuyama quotes.

I am working continuously.........at being a martyr for humanity in our current context.....the Private Finance owners don't like folks talking about the social control tools they have that none ever talk about in public.....I was brow beat from commenting at ALMOST naked capitalism for my strident comments in this regard.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 5, 2016 6:24:01 PM | 21

The NYT is no longer read by "the people" as if it was ever read by the unwashed masses. It is there for the elites and only the elites or those people who think they are members of that elite IE Clinton supporters. Which is why its revenues dropped 95%.

People who support Obama and Clinton do not care if we are aligned with Al Qaeda as long as Trump is not President and the United States is not annexed by Russia. A Clinton surrogate made the latter assertion on NPR and Fox today. There was ZERO push back by the hosts or Trump surrogates.

Human Rights activists and their affiliate identity politics warriors are not concerned with the alliance since they are forever stuck defining more bullshit like LatinX or attacking Russia based on some bullshit Al Qaeda/White Helmet, DC/London/Paris propaganda.

White Helmet propaganda spreads like wildfire on Facebook and other social media. The few people who see through the shadows are fucked since so many more are stuck watching the flickers on the wall.

We essentially created The Cave using social media and TV.

And I agree with PavewayIV's assessment.

Posted by: AnEducatedFool | Nov 5, 2016 6:28:55 PM | 22

I caught the NYT actual admission that "insurgents" attacked and killed civilians in Aleppo and wondered what the take would be here. Then again, most of the article is about the government attacks.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/11/05/world/middleeast/ap-ml-syria.html?_r=0

It looks like NYT makes the attacks on western Aleppo seem justified because they're trying to "break the siege."
"An insurgent alliance known as the Army of Conquest, which includes the al-Qaida-linked Fatah al-Sham Front, has led the attack on western Aleppo. It is the second time insurgents have tried to break the siege imposed on the territory since July. An earlier offensive that breached the siege in August for a few weeks was repelled."

Posted by: Curtis | Nov 5, 2016 6:42:34 PM | 23

anne barnard has been lying for the empire for a long time.. i guess she gets paid really well for it.. every once and a while the truth slips out as it did here..

http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/06/21/dateline_baghdad?pg=full

Posted by: james | Nov 5, 2016 7:18:33 PM | 24

Very good article, interview with Bulgarian Boyan Chukov, linked by Dean @16 in the Open thread 2016-37 ...


The true goals are revealed. The world press openly writes about the risk of direct confrontation between Russians and Americans. Authoritative “experts”, who were previously publicly saying that terrorists are independent of Washington, today are explaining how Americans are supplying jihadists with arms against Assad and are threatening to incite them to be used against Russian cities. It became obvious that there is no coalitions against DAESH. There is the Russian army and its Syrian, Iranian, Chinese and other allies. They fight real international terrorism, which is used as a tool to solve geostrategic goals by those who cultivate, arm, fund and treat wounded jihadists.

Those who cultivate, arm, fund, and treat wounded jihadists are the US-Brussels-TelAviv-Riyadh Axis. The NYTimes has always been on their side. Their support has become more and more open since the neo-con putsch in the USA and the rise of the 'young' Sulzberger at the NYTimes. As @22 AEF points out, the NYTimes has always been writing in what amounts to a foreign language in the USA, and now, knowing that its readers are in the same position that it is in, it speaks outloud, openly voicing their common concerns, careless of their 'secrets'.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 5, 2016 7:22:31 PM | 25

This an interesting and relevant excerpt from Syrian War Update blog from last year:
https://syrianwarupdate.wordpress.com/

(11/09/2015) SYRIAN WAR UPDATE: TERRORISTS R US.

There is no denying a fact that US, EU [Turkey]and Golf States are, as they openly admitted themselves, conducting proxy war against Assad, Syrian people and now Russians, blocking all diplomatic efforts for peace, allowing US pilots to attack directly Russian and Syrian air force, supplying the terrorists with weapons via Turkey and ceasing of all bombing raids against ISIS and another terrorists’ targets starting in October.

Do you remember certain unelected Dubya guy calling the world, in the name of shocked New Yorkers: Are you with us or are you with terrorists?

The western establishment chose to stand with terrorists long time ago. Not until recently that the West, so clearly, openly and unequivocally expressed its ideological, political, and military support for brutal terror of rape, murder, intimidation and slavery as well as acquiesced to a delusional dream of medieval global Sunni Caliphate which is to be founded on direct violations of every single modern western value you can think of.

The western leadership or rather an abhorrent usurpers in Armani suits, have finally show their true dark faces of death and enslavement that are unleashed unto confused population, relieved of further need for any nonsensical narratives and/or contortionist arguments of horny MSM presstitutes, soon to be discarded as useless like the rest of us.

In fact, we are dealing with situation of utter collapse of local, state and global rule of law as well as cultural customs and political traditions where ALL western governments incessantly violate all the anti-terrorist laws they have on the books as well as their own constitutions, and in the process destroying any notion of intellectual freedom of speech, assembly and political descent as well as reveal fallacy of independence of any social institution and fundamental rule of law within so-called democratic system of propaganda and deceit.

Once again a raw power emerges from under a razor thin veneer of western civilization pushing human race into barbaric neo-feudal servitude or death.

It is not to say that eastern or other traditions are not barbaric, however, it was the West that developed and began implementing, fundamental concepts of personal privacy, individual sovereignty and other basic human rights in context of social contract negotiated between the state and the people, concepts truly new and original within the history of human civilization and now being abandoned or brutally suppressed by the western regimes.

I am not a subscriber to an apocalyptic view, or Hegelian ultimate struggle between good and evil. And hence I do not see this reignited confrontation building up between East and West into hot proxy war in Ukraine and Syria as some pivotal event or critical historical moment but rather as preprogrammed regression process of the civilization back into old social systems predominately based on brutal power and imperial domination of society and culture rather than an illusion of democratic process.

Such emerging barbarism shows its face also through official government statements spewed by propaganda stooges of MSM where short minded, little moral worms draw disgusting orgasmic pleasure from events like Russian airliner tragedy and appallingly wish for more of innocent people’s pain, suffering and blood, paralleling worst ISIS psychotic rants and implicitly rationalizing the horrendous reign of terror.

Barbarians are not at the gates. They are already inside.

Posted by: Kalen | Nov 5, 2016 7:31:04 PM | 26

If there are in fact "terrorist" attacks before the election, those will certainly be done by the real believers in terror, the Hillary crowd and their supporters in the dark state and State dept., as no one else has the motive to influence the election in her direction.

Posted by: Joe | Nov 5, 2016 8:21:05 PM | 27

Just think....the Moo silums in America can form Fire depts,
And it's Tammany Hall/Gangs of NY all over again!

Then the ISIS will get into the Insurance** business. ...

Maybe Catholic Priest leads the boys out in the 5 points vs the Immam and the
40 thieves.

Posted by: Brad | Nov 5, 2016 8:31:07 PM | 28

Re: Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 5, 2016 4:17:04 PM | 10

I think that qualifies as wishful thinking on Pepe's part. I simply see no logical reason to agree with that theory.

Posted by: Jules | Nov 5, 2016 8:53:00 PM | 29

The NYT is no longer read by "the people" as if it was ever read by the unwashed masses. It is there for the elites and only the elites or those people who think they are members of that elite IE Clinton supporters. Which is why its revenues dropped 95%.
Posted by: AnEducatedFool | Nov 5, 2016 6:28:55 PM | 22

Hence the unseen, but obvious government subsidies in place of lost revenue. How else can you explain stenographic, creative writing...? And I guess we shouldn't be so surprised at the decay. We'll all look back and see the creative destruction the internet caused in a different light.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Nov 5, 2016 8:56:18 PM | 30

It is right to point out the glaring inconsistencies in MSM reporting (again and again and again).
However, it is no news for MSM readers that jihadis, Islamists, AQ are somehow "there" among "rebels" (US-backed). On the level of mere reporting you could, if attentive to details "buried" somewhere down, get a relatively adequate picture from MSM. Surprisingly.

Exceptions are:
- early support for insurgents in 2011 and even before
- everything about Ghouta false-flag attack
- casualties (reasons, proportion of military to civilian casualties etc)


The spin comes partly from one-sided emphasis, but more so from a simple moralistic frame: good vs bad.
So, Assad was painted as the baddie right from the beginning.
So the good side was first "the insurgents" in form of the FSA.
As the FSA logo didn´t work any more, it was just "rebels", sometimes mixed with "Islamists".
When in 2014 some of those Islamist rebels declared a caliphate, well - big surprise, totally unforeseen, but the solution was easy: clearly another baddy, which could easily be kept apart from the good rebels (though those might be mixed with some Islamist elements).

The irreparable crack in the Western narrative came one year ago when Russian Air Force started bombing "terrorists". Islamist terrorists - full stop. MSM were busy every day (!) blaming Russia for not (or not only) targeting ISIS, - but to no avail. The question who these rebels were could only be postponed for so long. Putin successfully called the Western bluff.

This was the time the phrase "moderate rebels" came in vogue. Its ingenuity is that it is a comparative term: moderate in comparison to --? Note that we don´t have to claim these moderate rebels fight for democracy or any Western catch-word. No, they are just "moderate" - eg in comparison to ISIS. Certainly true. And they also are moderate in comparison to AQ´s official branch, the Nusra front. Also true (mostly, unless they stupidly put decapitation vids on youtube).

So this is the morality game that is still being played: all evidence of "immoderateness" (pretty abundant by now) is still put into the bad basket AQ, or explained away as a consequence of "moderates" having to play along with AQ. (Read Charles Lister.)

In this way the label "moderate" keeps the narrative flexible and shields it from scrutiny why we should support them, and more importantly whether they present any viable alternative to Assad.


This is how the crumbling Western narrative is kept alive. And this way, the contradiction pointed out by b can still be upheld: well, it is not AQ in Syria which poses a threat to the US ...
Which is true, they have given up "external operations", any attempts at plotting foreign attacks are swiftly dealt with by US, -> Khorasan group, also some AQ individuals in Syria have been recently droned.

Posted by: Qoppa | Nov 5, 2016 9:00:14 PM | 31

The outrageous pretense is that Western democracies can do no wrong. And the faith in the cherished 'free press' was believed... because Democracy!... because free markets!

Most people in the West have yet to realize how much they have been had - despite bloggers saying the same for years. But as they 'wake up' they are rightly pissed.

Thus, we have Brexit and the Trump phenomenon.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 5, 2016 11:16:20 PM | 32

@14, Jackrabbit

"Those who point the finger at "the West" or faults of the "American people" are completely off-base. They are blaming the victim. And cursing the darkness instead of lighting a candle."

No, not completely off-base. The American people, or the "West" writ large, may be in the dark, but they have to accept some responsibility for their ignorance. Even the slightest real curiosity would turn over enough critical stones... No?

"Always better to light a candle than curse the darkness." Quite right.

Posted by: Castellio | Nov 5, 2016 11:17:55 PM | 33

I sometimes get asked why I post over on MoonOfAlabama, "That leftist blog". That always strikes me as funny because, in my ignorance, I never knew MoA was historically some kind of a lefty blog. b's intelligent and sensible writing and the thoughtful comments brought me here - that's it. I never thought of it as 'leftist' in the maybe two years I have been aware of it. It always stuck me as anti-neocon. And neocons are, in fact, 'new conservative' liberals. So I apologize to all the old-school non-neocon leftys/liberals that still lurk here - there was no flashing warning sign above the front door and I was terribly thirsty, so I just stumbled in for a drink.

But here's why I was so thirsty: the New York Times (and most of Western MSM) claims they are unbiased, but this somehow means to them a balance of left/liberal- and right/conservative-leaning reporting. Maybe there is (or was) such a thing, but they have confused the idea of balance by simply morphing the two sides together into a kind of bizarre Franken-unbiased stance that we clearly see as the scourge of neo-conservatism. If Monsanto made 'unbiased', it would look like the New York Times. The result is seeing the world through a beer-goggles version of a simplistic good/bad moralistic frame that Qoppa@31 calls out.

The demise of the New York Times to the influence of neocons was news in itself. They should put more reporters on THAT story. But this isn't just an American/NYT phenomenon, is it? It must apply in some wider context to most other Western MSM. I don't know the specifics of other countries, but their has been similar observations of (at the very least) the Canadian, British and German press. The Aussie press seemed like it was always broken like this, but everyone there already knew that. The problem with MSM's Franken-unbias is that they no longer appeal to... well, most people.

Here's what Liz Spayd, the newest public editor of the New York Times said last summer. Her comment is about U.S. elections, but it reveals a far deeper mortal flaw in most MSM thinking: [bolding is mine]

"...she was taken aback by the deluge of email criticizing the newspaper for “one-sided reporting” and “relentless bias against Trump.”

Her inquiries in the newsroom were met “with a roll of the eyes,” Spayd said, and the claim that all sides hate the Times because they are even-handed in their reporting.

“That response may be tempting, but unless the strategy is to become The New Republic gone daily, this perception by many readers strikes me as poison,” Spayd said candidly. “A paper whose journalism appeals to only half the country has a dangerously severed public mission.”

She went on to muse that a fracturing media environment, with people seeking out the news they want to hear, might be pulling the Times to the left, which is where two-thirds of its readers are. This would be bad, she said, because of the stories that would be missed — such as the “surprising” triumph of Donald Trump in capturing the Republican nomination.

“Imagine a country where the greatest, most powerful newsroom in the free world was viewed not as a voice that speaks to all but as one that has taken sides,” she said, before grimly asking, “Or has that already happened?”...

And why the snarky comment about the NYT turning into a daily The New Republic by Liz? For non-Americans, this description of the weekly The New Republic from a Robert Parry piece in ConsortiumNews will help: [bolding mine]

"...Though The New Republic still touts its reputation as “liberal,” that label has been essentially a cover for its real agenda: pushing a hawkish foreign policy agenda that included the Reagan administration’s slaughter of Central Americans in the 1980s, violent U.S. interventions in Iraq, Syria and other Muslim countries for the past two decades, and Israel’s suppression of Palestinians forever.

Indeed, the magazine’s long-ago-outdated status as “liberal” has long served the cause of right-wingers. The Reagan administration loved to plant flattering stories about the Nicaraguan Contras in The New Republic because its “liberal” cachet would give the propaganda more credibility. A favorite refrain from President Ronald Reagan’s team was “even the liberal New Republic agrees ”

In other words, the magazine became the neocon wolf advancing the slaughter of Central Americans in the sheep’s clothing of intellectual liberalism. Similarly, over the past two decades, it has dressed up bloody U.S. interventionism in the Middle East in the pretty clothes of “humanitarianism” and “democracy.”

The magazine which has given us the writings of neocons Charles Krauthammer, Fred Barnes, Steven Emerson, Robert Kagan and many more has become a case study in the special evil that can come from intellectualism when it supplies high-minded rationalizations for low-brow brutality.

In the world of the mind, where The New Republic likes to think it lives, the magazine has published countless essays that have spun excuses for mass murder, rape, torture and other real-world crimes. Put differently, the magazine afforded the polite people of Official Washington an acceptable way to compartmentalize and justify the ungodly bloodshed.

Robert Parry's explanation fits the present-day NYT like a glove: High-minded rationalizations for low-brow brutality. NYT [adjusting moralistic beer goggles]: "Al Qaeda alliances? Well, you see... sometimes, it's necessary. Necessary for the U.S. in order to save brown people from evil rulers we don't like. Sometimes, we have to pal up with head-choppers, drone a few civilians or apply punishing trade sanctions. It's really OK - trust us... Unless the Russians do it - then it's a war crime."

Posted by: PavewayIV | Nov 5, 2016 11:38:42 PM | 34

@ PavewayIV

If I could buy you a drink in Portland, OR I certainly would. Instead we will need to toast our gracious host in cyberspace......salute!

I think that the myth memes of liberal and conservative have been and continue to be intentionally created and maintained to keep folks from seeing the reality meme of separation between us/them.....those that have and those that don't.....again back to my incessant drum about the global plutocrats that own private finance and everything else and their hangers on versus the rest of us controlled by the God of Mammon religion they push.

Who have you been told to hate today? I don't hate people but do hate the idea of private finance and its adjunct unfettered inheritance that keeps the elite families in control of the liberal/conservative myth.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2016 12:10:55 AM | 35

I'm not following the election but a sensational claim has broken. I've summarized @170 on the election thread.

Posted by: Penelope | Nov 6, 2016 2:14:41 AM | 36

A good article from Daniel Lazare in Consortium News points out the US strategy in Syria about taking Raqqa makes no sense.
“What possible assurances could the United States give to the Kurds,” Davis writes, “that upon successful liberation of Raqqa, the Turkish army isn’t going to turn on them? Why would the Turks bomb the Kurdish troops one day and then work with them the next, or allow the Kurds to maintain a presence after liberating Raqqa? There is no recognizable logic in these unsubstantiated hopes.”

Davis is correct. But, then, there is no recognizable logic in the Obama administration’s intervention in Syria in general. Why insist that Assad step down, for example, when the only effect will be to clear a path for Al Qaeda and Islamic State straight through to the presidential palace in Damascus?

Why back a Turkish incursion into northern Syria when the only result is to infuriate Kurds who are the only effective anti-ISIS fighting force that the U.S. has on its side? Why insist that the U.S. wants a democratic solution to the Syrian civil war when the countries backing the anti-Assad forces, i.e. Saudi Arabia and the other Arab oil monarchies, are some of the most undemocratic societies on earth?

None of it makes sense. But since the Israelis, Turks and Saudis all want Assad to go, the Obama administration feels that it has no choice but to comply. How else can it keep a fractious empire together if not by catering to its client states’ whims and desires?

When empires are strong, they can afford to say no. But when they are weak and over-extended, they do as they are told. This is why the U.S. is frozen with regard to Raqqa. It can’t disappoint its allies by calling an assault off, and it can’t push ahead with a plan that doesn’t add up. So it dawdles.https://consortiumnews.com/2016/11/03/americas-rocky-road-to-raqqa/

Posted by: harrylaw | Nov 6, 2016 4:59:04 AM | 37

psychohistorian @6

"What I faulted WI Thompson for back then and to this day was the absence of any thoughts about the world of finance, and specifically the private finance that is, IMO, along with associate unfettered inheritance, the core cancer in our current form of social organization in the West."

Possibly this was because it wasn't that big of an industry then, and wasn't so influential.

This a an undated article but I think from about 2008.

http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-welfare/financial-sector-costs-us-more-than-all/

"The financial sector receives more of the average paycheck than any other sector of the economy. Its share of the economy totals $2 trillion dollars.

In 1985, the financial sector earned less than 16% of domestic corporate profits. Today, it’s over 40%.

In the 1960s, finance and insurance accounted for only 4% of GDP, whereas in 2007 finance and insurance accounted for 8% of GDP.

The purpose of the financial services industry is basically to transfer money from savers to entrepreneurs. It primarily consists of using a computer to shift money from one bank account to another. This service requires virtually no physical labor and very few material resources.

Yet, this relatively simple service cost our country more than $2 trillion in 2007. That was more than the country spent on health care, construction, food, utilities or transportation."

from this website which seems to be a markets site more updated information:

https://www.selectusa.gov/financial-services-industry-united-states

"Financial markets in the United States are the largest and most liquid in the world. In 2014, finance and insurance represented 7.0 percent (or $1.223 trillion) of U.S. gross domestic product. Leadership in this large, high-growth sector translates into substantial economic activity and direct and indirect job creation in the United States.

Financial services and products help facilitate and finance the export of U.S. manufactured goods and agricultural products. In 2014, the United States exported $104.7 billion in financial services and had a $35.01 billion surplus in financial services and insurance trade (excluding re-insurance, the financial services and insurance sectors had a surplus of $67.5 billion). The financial services and insurance sectors employed 6.08 million people in 2015. The securities subsector of the industry shows great potential for employment growth, with a 12 percent increase expected by 2018. According to the U.S. Department of Labor, 920,700 people were employed in the securities and investment sector at the end of 2015."

A chart of GDP share for financial services from 1860 to about 2010 is here. Massive growth in the current era.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financialization

In short the US GDP is less and less about producing actual goods, and more and more about playing musical chairs with mythical items such as money.

Posted by: Dean | Nov 6, 2016 5:22:59 AM | 38

@ Dean who wrote "Possibly this was because it wasn't that big of an industry then, and wasn't so influential."

Private finance didn't just happen yesterday. You do know that the 12 Fed banks are privately owned don't you? Have you read the book "The Secrets of the Temple by William Greider from the early 80's? Private finance decided to offshore US manufacturing as part of the plan to eviscerate America. The global plutocrats that own private finance have no allegiance to any country and its people but are followers of the God of Mammon. They want continued and expanded globalization to maintain the freedom they currently have to move their assets around as the latest geopolitical situations require. I fully expect that since the financial blow up of 2008 they have manipulated the geopolitical scene to what is before us....the national debt has increased by close to 10 trillion dollars since 2008....where did that money go? I don't have any of it, how about you?

I believe that we are at the end of the reign of the US dollar as Reserve Currency for the world. But none but me is talking about the end of private finance so those global plutocrats get to take enormous amounts of US dollars and their existing private finance tools, BIS, World Bank, IMF, Fed banks, City of London, etc. to the negotiating table and say, "Gee, what part of the world do we get going forward?"

But then I am just spewing textual white noise and should know to TRUST my betters just like I TRUST in God like they changed the US motto to in the 1950's.......from E Pluribus Unum (Out of Many, One)

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2016 7:12:32 AM | 39

PavewayIV | Nov 5, 2016 3:19:56 PM | 4

Anybody, believing anything, from the U.S. CCM, is in immediate need of a psychiatric evaluation; full stop.

Posted by: V. Arnold | Nov 6, 2016 7:30:06 AM | 40

I find it interesting that Reuters has not reported about the link I shared in comment #13 above in spite of its obvious significance to the coming (s)election process.

It makes me wonder just what aspects of what happens in the next week will be shared/when with the general public.....Voltaire wrote something to the effect that "History is a lie commonly agreed to."

Thanks again to MoA for existing and providing the uncommonly agreed to history of our world as it unfolds.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2016 7:36:48 AM | 41

@13

seems the 'Denver Guardian' is a fake news site, an 'Onion' of sorts .

Posted by: la | Nov 6, 2016 8:16:38 AM | 42

Hi b (and others),

I just saw an interview on France 24 with Leila Minano, author of Le sacrifice de Palmyre (Editions Grasset, 12 October 2016)

http://www.grasset.fr/le-sacrifice-de-palmyre-9782246861751

who maintains, based on eyewitness accounts that:

1. Syrian troops withdrew from the area around Palymra, despite the request of the US to intervene to forestall the ISIS takeover of the city.

2. the Government organized the evacuation of officers, archaeological pieces, political prisoners and even the bank, all the while preventing civilians from leaving even when the black flags of ISIS were at the city gates.

3. Most of the damage (and looting) of the site was due to the Government, not ISIS

4. Reading the book one discovers the "true story" of the decapitation of the architect Khaled Al-As'sad.

5. Following the liberation, the Government left the inhabitants of Palmyra to fend for themselves.

In general, the fall and subsequent retaking of Palmyra were giant publicity stunts (e.g., the Russian concert) to acquire sympathy for the Assad government (horror of horrors, the Secretary-General of UNESCO actually "welcome(d) the liberation" of Palmyra).

Does anyone know anything about the author, Leila Minano? If I hadn't been following alternative news accounts (such as b) of the situation in Syria, I could easily have been persuaded by her account (and my wife certainly was).


Posted by: Madeira | Nov 6, 2016 8:27:21 AM | 43

39

The US motto is now: 'E pluribus no hay comidas'

In short order it will be: 'E pluribus no hay cuidado de la salud'

Shortly after that, by 2020: 'E pluribus no hay salud y servicios humanos todos'

Our last life savings will be stripped away to uplift the Imperial Mil.Gov.Fed
Even State and local will be plundered: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-05/goldman-fears-persistent-headwind-growth-statetax-revenues-tumble

Or in Spanish: 'The Emperor has all our clothes'

Can you believe the clothing deals now at these collapsing retail centers?
I just got branded jeans, long sleeve fleece shirt and work boots for $45!
Tomorrow I start part-time for $11 an hour, no benefits, an hour's drive.
Then I net $14 a day, if I don't buy lunch! I can buy new gear every week!

Is this a great stylin' country, or what?!

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Nov 6, 2016 8:42:23 AM | 44

PavewayIV @34:

... they [NYTimes]have confused the idea of balance by simply morphing the two sides together into a kind of bizarre Franken-unbiased stance...
Its important to note that this didn't just happen. It closely followed the development of the 'Third Way' neolibcon faction of the Democratic Party which the Clintons and Obama belong to.

'Third Way' was planned and executed to co-opt the American political system. In most other countries they are called "Centrists". They pretend to be liberal and represent 'the people' while selling them out. Their philosophy of governance can be summarized as: vote with your money (and so, today corporations are considered people and money is considered speech).

'Third Way' politicians are crooked middle-men that scam the public. Like all neolibcons they justify their beliefs with academic nonsense. Public Choice Theorists/Practioners promote a market for political influence.

The absurdity of public-choice theory is captured by Nobel Prize-winning economist Amartya Sen in the following little scenario:

"Can you direct me to the railway station?" asks the stranger. "Certainly," says the local, pointing in the opposite direction, towards the post office, "and would you post this letter for me on your way?" "Certainly," says the stranger, resolving to open it to see if it contains anything worth stealing.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 6, 2016 9:09:21 AM | 45

44

but...

yo soy el nino

Posted by: john | Nov 6, 2016 9:14:04 AM | 46

The MSM aint left,they are trotskyite criminals who care not one iota for the peoples of this world,outside of Jews and Zion and the do-re-mi they can heist from their goyim victims.
Zionism killed newspapers.
SNL had Trump(Baldwin)smooch Putin(some little dweeb).Talk about zionist propaganda.
Who are the vulgar?

Posted by: dahoit | Nov 6, 2016 9:22:51 AM | 47

Castellio @33:

If you fell down a ditch, breaking your leg so that you can't climb out, would you curse the first man that comes along for not have passed by sooner?

Lets not curse the very people that can help. Especially when the their natural inclination to spend their time on things other than politics has been used to advantage by the craven elite.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Nov 6, 2016 9:27:07 AM | 48

Madeira @ 43

I only know that when ISIS was advancing across over 100 miles of open desert in long convoys the US did not drop even a single bomb on them to prevent the advance, so item 1) seems really suspect.

Here is a wiki link to the battle starting May 2015. It seems pretty balanced and discusses some of your points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmyra_offensive_(May_2015)

Posted by: Dean | Nov 6, 2016 9:32:14 AM | 49

...
in my ignorance, I never knew MoA was historically some kind of a
lefty blog. b's intelligent and sensible writing and the thoughtful comments brought me here - that's it. I never thought of it as 'leftist' in the maybe two years I have been aware of it. It always stuck me as anti-neocon. And neocons are, in fact, 'new conservative' liberals.
...
Posted by: PavewayIV | Nov 5, 2016 11:38:42 PM | 34

It may be time for you to update your definition of "lefty" and recognise the fact that, regardless of what "left" might once have meant in the Good Old Days, in the 21st Century it means any person who can successfully counter the hokum from Right-wing Cranks and Snake-Oil Salesmen so logically, adroitly, and PUBLICLY, that it exposes them as infantile and inept (and gets a few laughs in the process).
Don't believe me? Read ANY Right-wing retort to effective criticism from ANY source and you'll find "leftish" among the deluge of defensive. fact-free ad hominem.
i.e. "Left" has transmogrified into a Right-wing epithet for Competent Critics of Right-wing Crankiness.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 6, 2016 10:23:46 AM | 50

NYT is read by Faux Liberals. It is a fiction that NYT is Leftist. How can it be leftist as it propped up the war in Iraq and supports all the Yinon Plan wars? The Cheney/Libby/Plame-Wilson/Miller NYT "stovepipe" fomented the Iraq Slaughter.

Cognitive Dissonance: There are many, a plurality, whom cannot break free of the illusion that Mainstream News sources are "mostly trustworthy". They cling to the NYT and tv news in a desperate attempt to believe in the "American Institution".

How foolish they are.

Posted by: fast freddy | Nov 6, 2016 10:55:46 AM | 51

Re: Dean | Nov 6, 2016 5:22:59 AM | 38

Important distinction between the digital, paper fiat CURRENCY that by legal decree functions as "legal currency", as well as the global reserve currency since the Bretton Woods agreement in 1946, and

MONEY, which cannot be manufactured via computer or printing press, which has *intrinsic value*, which is derived from the natural world, and historically has been in a fungible form produced as gold and silver coins (or bullion for governments and oligarchs).

The neolibcon banksters are all about keeping control of CURRENCY and suppressing MONEY. Central banks are used to control the nations where they reside. Remember the words of Baron Rothschild: Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!

Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 6, 2016 11:12:34 AM | 52

I have watched the horrible things that the evil empire has done in my lifetime. (over 60 years) and have often said that the world would never know peace again until the empire fell. My problem is that I would like to see the empire split apart into separate countries (many hopefully) and that would happen peacefully.

The USA itself will never know peace, prosperity, and pleasure until it splits apart since there is no way to convince the collectivists that they are leading towards totalitarianism. So, let them have their 1984 dictatorship in their own country. I nominate California. Also, the world will never know peace and freedom as long as the empire wants to dominate the world. (Regime change: what an ugly thing)

But how can such a split happen without bloodshed? Can it? Will it? I don't know.

Posted by: Mark Stoval | Nov 6, 2016 11:12:53 AM | 53

And Rothschild knew the difference between MONEY and CURRENCY

Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 6, 2016 11:13:45 AM | 54

Disgusting French propaganda (ref Palmyra)
they are desperate to cover their trace


About the long Blumenthal mail about "the Truth" in Benghazi, funny that when he complains of the impact of conspiracy theories on the American audience he never raise the poor state of education!

Posted by: Mina | Nov 6, 2016 11:36:05 AM | 55

multiple reports that "on to Raqqa" has begun
Reuters: U.S.-backed Syrian alliance declares attack on Islamic State in Raqqa two.

AFp: US-backed forces launch assault on Syrian IS 'capital'.

US-backed Kurdish-Arab forces launched an offensive Sunday on the Islamic State group's de facto Syrian capital Raqa, upping pressure on the jihadists who are already battling Iraqi troops in Mosul.

The start of the assault by the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) came as Iraqi forces fought inside Mosul for the third day running, with the jihadists putting up fierce resistance.

Is the SDF opening a second front while losing in Aleppo? Rather beggars belief or are these reassembled exiles from that city or (where did these forces come from?)

Does the USA wants to boost its credibility wrt "we fight ISIS too!!!!" by taking credit (again) for the acts of Kurds ... Be on the lookout for better explanation of the "Arab" part of this coalition / joint venture.

Oh, I just realized Al-Baghdadi is no longer in Mosul ... suspect they are probably going after him, in damn the torpedoes! fashion.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 6, 2016 11:42:41 AM | 56

@ la in comment #42 that wrote "seems the 'Denver Guardian' is a fake news site, an 'Onion' of sorts ."

If you are correct then I have been duped and apologize for it.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2016 11:44:17 AM | 57

thanks on the update on the denver guardian... it means there is no truth to the story as well i guess.

Posted by: james | Nov 6, 2016 12:05:29 PM | 59

@52&53
How far can humankind move away from our current USD reserve monetary system without destroying a large percentage of the population...? That is, away from a worn out, 45 year old fiat (when Nixon severed the last linkage if the USD to gold) reserves overdue for replacement that is backed by oil, debt and a type of faith that means staring down the barrel of gun...?

One of my favourite answers (perhaps not the correct one) to the Fermi Paradox as to why we haven't yet been contacted by aliens, is that intelligent lifeforms tend to self destruct once they have reached a certain threshold. But it's my favourite because we haven't yet found a flexible system where humankind can transition from one era into the next without crushing the skull of his fellow man in the name of profit and progress.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Nov 6, 2016 12:12:28 PM | 60

@55 Mina
What do you know of julian rochedy....? A Frenchman with a very critical stance on Sarkozy and friends business dealings in Syria.

Posted by: MadMax2 | Nov 6, 2016 12:31:27 PM | 61

@ MadMax2,

You wrote "....we haven't yet found a flexible system where humankind can transition from one era into the next without crushing the skull of his fellow man in the name of profit and progress."

When and where have we had the opportunity to seriously TRY to live without private finance and unfettered inheritance? I know lots of folks who don't run around wanting to crush the skull of their neighbors in the name of profit and progress, do you live that way?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2016 12:36:46 PM | 62

@post #61 ...not sure if the video linked properly

Posted by: MadMax2 | Nov 6, 2016 12:45:09 PM | 63

Paveways’s comment about MOA being a lefty site made me think about what the left really is or more accurately was.

Karl Marx and his communism has a lot to answer for in the demise of the left. Exploited workers in Marx’s time and afterwards merely wanted a fairer share of the wealth being produced, a shorter working week (from the standard six day week) and a holiday once a year. In the trade union movement and in the socialist parties they were okay with private property, the market and democracy. In Britain they set up their own party – the Labour Party which overtook the Liberals as the main opposition to the Conservatives in the 1920s.

Marx hijacked the labor movement with ideas that were diabolically persuasive, especially to the young who are attracted by violent change. So extensive was its range of tools that there appeared to be no question that Marxism was unable to answer. Communism provided an instant worldview whilst cunningly hiding the nihilism implicit in its baggage and the planned annihilation of anyone of culture or wealth or religion or of independent thought. Like a parasite it fed on the noble and perhaps utopian ideals of people ground down by relentless work and poverty to produce in the case Russia the fetid stink of a dictatorship of apparatchiks and Cheka torturers/assassins and gulags…

What Marxism did was to split the labor movement in two. When the attack on the New Deal came in the 1970s and the bankers wanted a reset to 1928 the left was bitterly divided. Marxists looked down on democratic socialists as lesser beings just as the Jihadists in the Middle East have contempt for moderate Muslims. In fact Marxism and Jihad have a lot in common: both are based on dictatorship, extreme violence and terror. Both impose standards of thinking and acting the slightest deviation from which can be extremely costly.

Posted by: Lochearn | Nov 6, 2016 1:04:33 PM | 64

#13
planted non-newspaper was an immediate desperate drive-by snopes style attempted smear & burying of a very serious event or events bubbling just under the surface & so far held out of a full public exposure by the likes of Lynch.
the real story to this is here, nov 5:

We tried to make arrangements for him to exit the country safely, but he was killed before those arrangements could be carried out. We are still not sure if this is because they became aware of the leak, or if they were scared that he may in the future. In either case, his identity will be made public in this next set of leaks so that he can be honored for the hero that he was.

We will not only be releasing these documents, but we have multiple members of the FBI, CIA, and NYPD who will be publicly verifying their authenticity once their safety is assured.
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/fbi-cia-nypd-officials-set-to-drop-the-hammer-video-evidence-of-bill-clinton-and-six-government-officials-taking-part-in-sexual-acts-with-minors-to-be-released-before-election_11052016

Posted by: schlub | Nov 6, 2016 1:41:26 PM | 65

from top post:

Sources told CBS News senior investigative producer Pat Milton that U.S. intelligence has alerted joint terrorism task forces that al Qaeda could be planning attacks in three states for Monday.

Trump supporters, as far as I can see, are convinced ISIS was created by ‘libtards’ HRC + Obama - ignoring history going back to the 80’s - e.g. Palestinian without-a-soul suicide bombers and books such as (link, Amazon, 1987), and would immediately consider any AlQ attack to be a false flag, or would double down on defeat ISIS with Russia. They love their Muslim brothers and sisters provided they are ‘legal.’

Raising the spectre of Al-Q (Isis, etc.) attacks seems like a passé move, it looks like the PTB is in desperation holding onto tropes worn so thin they are risible.

Surprise! The real, dastardly, horrific, attack will be a bio-weapons attack (gone quiet since Amerithrax, with the exception of the fake Ghouta matter), desperate alarm, blamed on Russia!

-- That might not go down well either and presents many dangers. At least it is a little more "creative." --

My conclusion: No terror attack will take place for now, or in the next 6 months. And certainly not on Monday.

https://www.amazon.com/Holy-terror-Inside-Islamic-terrorism/dp/0917561457

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 6, 2016 2:18:26 PM | 66

News implicating the sunshine sultan in not just warmongering, but directly by supplying & equipping.
Can you believe it?

How dare these lowly faux blogger truth-tellers besmirch, besmear, & be-whatever this international man of action 'star'(see star in pic).

Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:7
Idlib Source Discloses Turkey's Major Role in Jeish Al-Fatah's Massive Offensive on Govt' Troops in Aleppo
TEHRAN (FNA)- Informed sources in Syria's Idlib province said that the Turkish Army has supplied a large volume of arms and ammunition to Jeish al-Fatah terrorist coalition to use them in their Great Epic Operation to lift army's siege on militants in Eastern part of Aleppo city.
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13950816000633

http://www.digitaljournal.com/img/1/0/4/8/0/9/3/i/2/6/6/p-large/a7ad3ffdd2450905ad190d6af7f0686a41131eda.jpg

Posted by: schlub | Nov 6, 2016 3:08:34 PM | 67

Dueling headlines that we have ensured that Erdogan won't butt in wrt Raqqa with report that we are trying to enlist his participation in same ...
RT shown footage (I assume from the military) has well-spoken Americans on the ground (we're giving them aid and air-cover) and the news photos have attractive female Kurdish fighters (but of course!) ...
They're now saying this move to "surround" Raqqa has been going on for months and the battle for the city may be months off .. so, gosh, why is this "news"
I'm so tired of this.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 6, 2016 3:18:04 PM | 68

plan 'C' now.
Cartalucci article Discussed somewhat on syrianperspective.com today.

Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:5
US Planners Come Up With 'Plan C' to Bring Syria Under Control

TEHRAN (FNA)- A US scholar has come up with a "Plan C" in Syria aimed at establishing a new interim government in Idlib, geopolitical analyst Tony Cartalucci notes, adding that the plan may allow Washington to take a step closer to breaking Syria apart.

The US is harboring a "Plan C" in Syria, Bangkok-based geopolitical analyst Tony Cartalucci notes in his article, citing the recent op-ed written by Steven Heydemann, Associate Professor of Political Science at Columbia University for The New York Times, Sputnik reported.
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13950816001555

Posted by: schlub | Nov 6, 2016 3:28:16 PM | 69

@69 schlub... the usa and the west have been working hard to do the same in libya.. how is that working out for them? periodically b and Richard Galustian - discuss this attempt at an intern gov't in libya.. here's a link to one of these articles from march 29th this year.. here's another one - may 28 2016.. it would be good to get an update..

Posted by: james | Nov 6, 2016 3:38:35 PM | 70

big things, & concomitant fireworks, shaping up for 2017 in the south border war Yemen-S.A.:

Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:13
Yemeni Popular Forces Vow to Fire More Missiles at Saudi Arabia
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13950816001514
Also on Wednesday, another prominent analyst said that the Yemeni forces are developing their missile power to target Riyadh and Dubai in the future.

"The Yemeni forces have increased their missile and military capabilities and expanded the range of their military operations against the enemies," Seyed Sadeq al-Sharafi said.

Noting that continued war in Yemen will further complicate the situation of the Saudis and make the Yemeni forces stronger, he said, "The range of the army and popular committees' missiles has increased to hit targets in Jeddah, meaning that they are likely to hit targets in Riyadh and beyond as well as Dubai and other sensitive regions soon in future."

that latest one a few weeks ago (S.A. claimed they intercepted it in-air)was over 600 km; Dubai would be twice that:
http://airway.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/jeddah.png

Posted by: schlub | Nov 6, 2016 3:50:31 PM | 71

It's 2 days before an election that will affect everyone not just Americans, so forgive me for digressing to this important issue.

Months ago during the primaries, I wouldn't have defended hardly a word uttered by Trump, because to begin with I was pushing for Bernie, the least hawkish of all candidates at the time.

Today, I feel compelled to defend Trump when he speaks the truth but in the past, I sometimes made note when he spoke the truth, because that's who I am regardless of whom I was endorsing.

So here's what I noticed between last night and today: Apparently there was no assassination attempt against Trump, that's good, but the hit job on Trump has been happening since this morning on the Clinton News Network, CNN, non-stop and worse than ever.

Trump is 110% correct when he calls it just that: the Clinton News Network, and may I say that the mainstream media may be even more corrupt than the swamp dwellers in Washington.

Here's just one turd they delivered today: They're claiming that Trump's latest ad regarding the banks and the Fed is tantamount to the Protocols of Zion. Hello? Is Soros not backing Clinton, is Blankfein not the head of Goldman Sachs? And is he not backing Hillary? Is Yellen not the new head of the Reserve replacing Zionist Bernacke and before that, Zionist Greenspan???

Is Trump supposed to lie and pretend that these entities aren't covered by Zionist gatekeepers? Do our lying eyes deceive us that the gatekeepers of Zionism and Neolib=Neoconism aren't for the most part in the Clinton camp including the Ziomedia that fawns all over her despite highly suspect criminal behavior in regards to obstructing email evidence?

Anyone who held their nose to watch every show on CNN this morning will no doubt agree with me; that the hit job didn't happen last night; it happened this morning on CNN and will no doubt continue til the polls open on Tuesday. Never in my life have I witnessed so much vitriol and bullshit dished out at any candidate like I did this morning. I'm all for free speech but everyone should be repulsed with this kind of vicious, corrupt deception and totally tilted reporting. I thought I was watching Fox News just another façade of the same Zio-column.

Lemme tell you, if Trump becomes President, and he should because the corrupt trappings of this so called U.S. democracy must come down, and for other reasons I stated in a previous post, I hope he goes to war not just with ISIS....but with the mainstream media as well. It's high time this Ziomedia get a taste of their own medicine.

This corrupt media may be as responsible or more for the Washington swamp as special interests, specifically, AIPAC and its minions that also helped to pollute the entire American political process that hardly ressembles democracy with the passage of time.

If Trump can really drain this swamp without sinking into it himself...then more power to him; I hope he pulls off a victory.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 6, 2016 3:55:00 PM | 72

There is a lot of 'cognitive dissonance' still surrounding al-CIAduh. Robert Parry had a post, The De Facto US/Al Qaeda Alliance about a week ago wherein he wrote ...


Though Al Qaeda got the ball rolling on America’s revenge wars in the Middle East 15 years ago by killing several thousand Americans and others in the 9/11 attacks, the terrorist group has faded into the background of U.S. attention, most likely because it messes up the preferred “good guy/bad guy” narrative regarding the Syrian war.

... which was immediately picked up in the comments - you don't see the other comments at his site until you make one of your own - as the antique nonsense that it is, al-CIAduh-esque elements were certainly involved in 9/11 but the heavy-lifting - demolition - was far beyond their ability. All such comments were then summarily deleted. So much for tolerance at consortiumnews.com. It's the party-line or the ax.

But I suppose that's a problem all over the 'progressive' msm in the US ... first al-CIAduh was against 'us' and now they are with 'us' ... I don't think so. As the name implies, al-CIAduh has always been part of the panoply of the all-war, all-the-time crowd at Langley and AC/DC.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 6, 2016 3:58:15 PM | 73

@62 psychohistorian
Well, i'd consider myself a pretty non-violent guy. Outside of the rugby pitch I've never knowingly, directly walked on someone's head.

On a personal level, I do try to be responsible for every cent I lay down, am debt-free for over 10 yrs and keep my savings in a non-commercial bank. I believe taking our loans and keeping our savings at local, ethical, community-minded banks, building societies or credit unions is the first step in having our money work for the the good of our immediate surroundings. By collectively voting at a local level in the only language the elite understand - money - the system would bend to serve us and too-big-to-fail banking institutions become irrelevant... until we attempt that we haven't even attempted sustainable capitalism.

However with that said, vehicle ownership for me is necessary, and I chose to own a used 1.2L fiat punto. It runs on unleaded petrol, so unfortunately I am a willing sponsor of the oil cartel...this therefore makes me, indirectly and collectively, responsible for the oil wars gangsters, pirates and governments wage resulting in death and destruction. So while I'm not 'wanting' this as you say, my eyes are open, myself and my peers are walking on the the skulls of the poor elsewhere for the sake of what is a dated energy source.

So it seems to me that existential and systemic issue facing humankind at this point, in tandem with the ancient struggle against private finance, is the need to disarm the tool that will cause energy wars well into the future. The pursuit of free, renewable energy should not be on behalf of a shaky climate change argument, that has to be the biggest waste of time getting around at the moment. We're not killing the earth, we'll alter it, sure...but the earth will grind us all to dust, and will be here long after we're gone.

The technology is there to realise what Nikola Tesla knew to be true...energy is all around us, everyday. It ought to be a basic human right and free us from this age's major reason to war for gain at the expense of our fellow man.

I am glad that Assad survived an attack on his country's sovereignty. Wikileaks is showing us what we already knew to be true, so unlike Gadhafi, Assad can author this page of history as it is: Wasting lives and controlling real estate in pursuit of a finite resource

Posted by: MadMax2 | Nov 6, 2016 4:08:41 PM | 74

@75 mm2, 'Assad can author this page of history as it is: Wasting lives and controlling real estate in pursuit of a finite resource'

Assad is the author of this page of history? I cannot agree.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 6, 2016 4:53:17 PM | 75

@75 mm2, 'So it seems to me that existential and systemic issue facing humankind at this point, in tandem with the ancient struggle against private finance, is the need to disarm the tool that will cause energy wars well into the future.'

It seems to me that the existential and systemic issue facing humankind at this point is the need to distribute political control equitably among us all. To separate it from corporate control of guns, money, or energy. All of those work at present to defend the concentration of political control. If energy were to be derived exclusively from the sun tomorrow, yet remain under corporate control, nothing would change. No subset of our human population, no 'representative' body, or individual, is capable of separating political power from corporate control of guns, money, energy, ... All such subsets are inevitably waylaid, suborned, by concentrated political power.

That's hard work and a dull grind as well, but bringing our human race under human control seems to me to be the existential and systemic issue facing humankind at this point.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 6, 2016 5:09:29 PM | 76

Comey is back-peddling a day and a half before the election sending a letter to Congress today maintaining his position of July 2016. I wonder what kind of pressure was exerted? Clinton Zio News Network kept pressing Clinton surrogates whether Comey would be fired if she wins the election? Looks like the Zio-neo cabal is going to crown their more loyal candidate yet again. The Ziomedia is in breathless orgy mode covering this reversal.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 6, 2016 5:21:32 PM | 77

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-06/fbi-folds-again-comey-says-conclusions-unchanged-july-clinton-email-review

Hillary Cleared As FBI Folds Again: Comey Says "No New Conclusions" After Clinton Email Review


nothing to see here, move along

Posted by: Perimetr | Nov 6, 2016 5:30:14 PM | 78

@Susan Sunflower / 68:

"They're now saying this move to "surround" Raqqa has been going on for months and the battle for the city may be months off .. so, gosh, why is this "news" ?"

Because there's an election coming up?

There's been talk about liberating/ conquering Raqqa for quite some time now, but basically the Kurds were never too keen on that, so the US/ the 'coalition' has no ground forces.
Is there any reason to assume that this has changed? My guess is that this is just part of the electoral campaign...but I may be wrong.

Thoughts?

Posted by: smuks | Nov 6, 2016 5:55:53 PM | 79

@ Lochearn | Nov 6, 2016 1:04:33 PM | 64

Oh dear...who taught you about Marxism - Ronald Reagan?

Posted by: smuks | Nov 6, 2016 5:58:24 PM | 80

The parade of stars lining up for Hillary are doing the American people and the people of this world a disservice shining and polishing her up like an unblemished porcelain figure.

This woman is a hawk with blood on her hands and is already responsible for the migration of at least a million refugees and the destruction of several countries. She's carrying the Neocon agenda forward with her, cackling all the way to the highest office in the land to pursue further war and chaos.

This is the real Hillary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0agBtEEYTaY

The no-fly zone in Syria is casus belli and there will be more tragedy, war, and a threat to this world like we have not faced yet. This woman is not the shiny bauble stars and the Ziomedia are presenting in last-minute wall-to-wall adulation. She represents death and destruction. She will trigger a war where countless sons and daughters, children, mothers and fathers will cease to exist in just 4 years of her rule. Hillary is an existential threat sent by the cabal that rules Washington.


Posted by: Circe | Nov 6, 2016 6:10:36 PM | 81

@77

The Anti-Empire Report #146


“Interventions are not against dictators but against those who try to distribute: not against Jiménez in Venezuela but Chávez, not against Somoza in Nicaragua but the Sandinistas, not against Batista in Cuba but Castro, not against Pinochet in Chile but Allende, not against Guatemala dictators but Arbenz, not against the shah in Iran but Mossadegh, etc.” – Johan Galtung, Norwegian, principal founder of the discipline of peace and conflict studies

Some have been quicker than others to distribute political control directly to the people, but that is what is essential in my view.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 6, 2016 6:50:25 PM | 82

82

Hillary Cleared As FBI Folds Again: Comey Says "No New Conclusions" After Clinton Email Review

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-06/fbi-folds-again-comey-says-conclusions-unchanged-july-clinton-email-review

Early voting surge by panicked Latinos (and Puerto Ricans flown into FL and NC with standing room only on the charter planes) now guarantees Hillary victory.

It's over, baby. America is a Bush-Clinton Oligarchy.
The Grand Hag has her hand on the Red Button now.
Hide your sons and your daughters, it's 'go-time'.

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Nov 6, 2016 6:57:46 PM | 83

What is the message the U.S. government is sending with such accounts?

Al-Qaeda is the two-pronged tool/sword of the Zio empire. On one hand, it serves to maintain the Neocon agenda that Hillary, the chosen of the Zio-neo cabal, will sustain and perpetuate derailing any kind of change in foreign policy by inspiring fear of imminent terrorist attacks and provoking hysteria prior to the election to sway the vote to the safe status quo instead of the wild card Trump, who suggested troubling change to the cabal's plan with a possible Russian alliance in Syria.

On the other hand, AQ served as bait in Syria to lure Russia into a trap much like the mujahideen-turned-AQ were the initial catalyst that led to the initial fall before the break-up of the Soviet Union. The cabal intended Syria to be Russia's last stand against the Anglo-Zio empire. AQ was meant to exhaust Russia, as happened in Afghanistan, so the U.S. could then step in and finish the job of destroying an already weakened enemy, i.e what it views as its greatest adversary, Russia, and to protect the Zio cabal's plan to neutralize and control the entire Middle East.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 6, 2016 6:59:50 PM | 84

Election -- oh, yes, of course, I was being facetious ... except I learned yesterday in an interview, the aid workers in Mosul were estimating there were 1.6 million civilians in the city (enormously more than the last high estimate I recall of 1 million, ? months ago). Attacking Raqqa (and loosening ISIS' hold, in theory) might also result in another wave of migrants/refugees, except we are surrounding it ... are we cordoning off all egress?

Cockburn -- 4-5 months ago said that Iraq was not eager to attack "liberate" Mosul because the folks there -- like Fallujah -- aren't friendly to the central government and Mosul is so very much larger than Fallujah. Last I heard Iraq had not gotten very far at all with de-mining Ramadhi and/or repopulating either Ramadhi or Fallujah.

I've been wondering it this is state sanctioned and supervised "ethnic cleansing" (like we did in Bosnia).

I know that no one cares. 1.6 Million Afghan refugees are being forcibly repatriated ... doubt there will be a homecoming party, and wonder how long before they re-joint the migrant/refugee express ... Wonder what "we" the United States is doing to aid their repatriation. No one stateside cares.

Yesterday I (again) was reminded that in Syria the united states is trying to prop up a failing "rebellion" much as in Vietnam we (and a similar "coalition") spent years and $$$ trying to prop up the installed post-colonial South Vietnamese government. Trying to get Americans to understand that there was a transition plan ... that the "rebels" rejected (repeatedly) means that it's not really Assad who's intransigent about keeping the bloodshed flowing.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 6, 2016 7:06:56 PM | 85

I have read -- citing nothing -- that Europe is very anxious that Trump be rejected, because they are dealing with their own rising alt-right movements and an American shift in that direction (via Trump president) will make fighting the battle in Europe more difficult (and depress everyone terribly).

One thing not mentioned or explored is that for minority American citizens every vote for Trump suggests that all the long-standing promises of tolerance and progress and good-faith efforts are meaningless ... if nearly half of all voting age Americans can dismiss the racism and xenophobia, then ... they've been lied to for decades and now the truth is inescapably that they do not matter, do not "rate" concern ...

I know and believe that not all Trump supporters are racist or sexist, certainly not at racist and/or sexist as the worst of this campaign has highlight ... still, there is a casual horror in so many people deciding those issues aren't deal-breakers. YMMV.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 6, 2016 7:16:29 PM | 86

@smuks 81 @loch 64

You made me go read lochearn, smuks. I think you're mixing ideology with corporate dynamics, loch. The mob running the USSR had as much to do with communist ideals as the mob running the USA have to do with the 'flowery phrases' of Thomas Jefferson, or the ideas of Thomas Paine. Once you're working for the corporation you're its slave, whether it's the DNC or the politburo of the Communist Party, and on down the hierarchy. And if the corporation is bought out, as 'the left' was in the West, you're transferred along with the lock, stock, and barrels to the new owner(s) as well. That's why we need to distribute political power, concentration corrupts and absolute concentration corrupts absolutely.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 6, 2016 7:25:55 PM | 87

Europeans should also recognize that Trump represents the "Peace Candidate" over the Blood-Soaked Clinton. Many Europeans do not have the love for Zionism and the Yinon Plan that is heralded in the USA.

Posted by: fast freddy | Nov 6, 2016 8:01:52 PM | 88

@suzy 87

Many of the most rabid Trump supporters here are Europeans ... FTH, for instance ... I guess you mean 'progressive' Europeans, like 'progressive' Americans, support Hillary? are beside themselves over the 'deplo-rabble' people in support of Trump?

Posted by: jfl | Nov 6, 2016 8:07:52 PM | 89

I think its that most Europeans do not live in a country with quite so large minority populations ... The United States does not have a single dominant ersatz "native" culture ... for years WASP culture was sort of the "gold standard" but that was largely to immigration quotas that kept immigrants "white" ... Hispanics and African-Americans "knew their place" and it was separate and unequal... and (as is well known) various anglo immigrant populations were't considered "really white" for a generation or two ... Irish, Italians and many Jews. This has sort of morphed to a point where many consider Asians "white" for most purposes, African-Americans may consider Hispanics "white" because they do not face the same discrimination (they face different issues).

What I'm trying to say is that I am sympathetic that preventing WWIII in many ways is job #1, as an American I cannot consider voting for someone who is seen as such as threat to my country's minority populations. I can agree that Clinton is the greater threat, and still refuse to vote for Trump... because of the un-ease he brings to my fellow citizens, people I identify with ... IMHO, America will have to prevent WWIII another way besides electing someone whose public utterances are a slap in the face of so many citizens -- minorities and women.

With some googling I found USA is African American 12.2%, Hispanic 12.5% -- combined 24.7% In contrast,
France has a Magreb poulation of 5.8% ... Germany's significant Muslim population is 5.4% in 2008.

I'm not comfortable with being part of a "slap in the face" to 25% of my country

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Nov 6, 2016 8:25:06 PM | 90

Obama has once again been used as the tool of mass distraction with his cute, wise-guy speeches that rouse the masses to secure the Zio-cabal agenda of regime-change wars that Hillary will perpetuate for the next 8 years and until completion of the goal. Liberals and Democrats, when will they understand that they're sacrificing their children and themselves for this futile cause in the interest of others and once again lured with the promise of social change?

The cabal wants above all, a loyal candidate with wide appeal; they don't care if it's a Democrat or a Republican; they only care that the candidate is loyal to their foreign policy agenda and if the candidate has the largest following; that's a bonus. It's why the stars were brought in, because Hillary who professes social change, but who is as loyal as they come to the cabal doesn't draw the largest crowds, but they fixed that too, since her promises to the little people encouraged stars to endorse her foolishly believing they're doing those little people a favor when in fact, they're luring them in the thousands to an ulterior cause. These stars have become the pied pipers leading the sheep over the cliff.

Today your children party with Jay-Z, Beyonce, and Katy - tomorrow they die for regime change in a foreign country on behalf of a foreign country and Hillary will pretend they died for the good freedom cause.

Obama's the fool's preacher and the best pied piper the cabal could have wished for in their arsenal of weapons of mass distraction.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 6, 2016 8:27:10 PM | 91

@92 circe 'since her promises to the little people encouraged stars to endorse her foolishly believing they're doing those little people a favor when in fact'

I think you're to kind to the 'stars'. They're quid pro quo business people - or have them at hand - first and foremost.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 6, 2016 8:39:57 PM | 92

@91 suzy 'I can agree that Clinton is the greater threat, and still refuse to vote for Trump...'

Well, yeah. That's the answer. It's easier to say that, isn't it, than to go through this whole Trump routine.

In point of fact there will be little difference in the actual treatment of the American people - a large part of whom are 'minorities' - by either of the 'effective' candidates. Hillary still has her eyes on the 'super predators'. She and her husband filled the US jails with minorities, and both she and Trump are eager to please those who've benefited from their Prison Industrial Complex. Obama has exported more 'illegals' than anyone in memory, and Hillary or Trump will do the same. If the 'minorities' - everyone is a minority in the US by now, aren't we? or soon will be - are leaning toward Clinton it's for the same reason the 'majority' are supporting Trump ... supporting what looks to them to be the lessor of two evils, not from some delusion that there's actually a decent candidate from the menagerie.

The solution is to vote out the menagerie. I chose Jill Stein. There are plenty of others to choose among.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 6, 2016 9:03:15 PM | 93

94

Stein and Johnson are a joke. You have no idea how powerful the forces are aligned against us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kZ4tBx_IZ4&feature=youtu.be skip to 16:20

A top FBI investigator was 'suicided' yesterday, along with his wife.

Today, FBI Director Comey said 'Nothing to see here."

The next two days are going to be wild.

Stay out of crowded public places.

Posted by: chipnik | Nov 6, 2016 9:45:52 PM | 94

@ MadMax2

Thanks for the response. I consume less than many other Americans but way more than those in the rest of the world.....

I want to see structural change to our current form of social organization in the way of elimination of private finance and unfettered inheritance. I see these changes as key to changing the incentives we live by and the hubris we have toward the Cosmos we live in that we know so little about.

I still hold out hope that Clinton II is defeated in her attempt to be the next puppet for the global plutocrats. If enough of the youth vote 3rd party it may make a difference. I don't know what to think about the Comey flip-flopping. I don't think we have seen a climax of the anger and frustration may Americans feel. The (s)election results may be the spark that ignites the populace into demanding change of some sort....

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2016 9:48:05 PM | 95

@93 It's possible. I just want to believe that stars like Stevie and James Taylor are just plain naïve on Hillary and therefore could have good intentions, but I agree; there's quid pro quo going on and when it comes to Hollywood and the music industry it's not so innocent -- there's lots of influence going on.

__________________

Regarding Comey's reversal today? Trump should remind people over and over again: Don't believe what you're hearing from the media regarding Hillary's emails. Before this new development, the media were echoing again and again whether Comey should be fired for the previous letter reopening the investigation. And surprise! he might keep his job after all with this latest letter! So don't believe there's nothing more to see. Far from it! Hillary has a history of hiding and dodging. Trust your intuition; look at the pattern, she's the artful dodger; she bamboozles; it's what she does best.

Posted by: Circe | Nov 6, 2016 10:02:29 PM | 96

@ chipnik who wrote "The next two days are going to be wild."

If by wild we get more of the same then WTF does it matter. The fog of this process has become tiring. It is looking more like that rest of the world needs to save Americans from themselves.....please do.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 6, 2016 10:28:11 PM | 97

Regarding the SDF offensive on Raqqa which has begun.

I would not be at all surprised to see that the minute or looks like they're making any real progress towards Raqqa that Turkey decides that is the opportune time to 'liquidate' (as they say) the so-called Afrin pocket of its Kurdish defenders.

Who wants to bet on a date?

I'll go for November 11 as that would seem to tie in nicely with Erdo's sick sense of humour..

Posted by: Julian | Nov 6, 2016 10:58:04 PM | 98

@97 Circe, "Regarding Comey's reversal today ...'

It's the lessor of two evils all over again ... DoJ appointees? FBI appointees? I can believe that even after the destruction of the FBI by Freeh there were still a few good people there who may well have mutinied after 8 years of Obama/Holder/Lynch criminality. And I definitely believe that the Hill/Billy Clintons and their foundation are criminal undertakings. Comey was whipsawed on the issue, now this way, now that, now this again ... It's all testament to the utter corruption of the US federal government.

The federal government needs a complete change of the 546 at the head of its three functional divisions ((435 + 100), 9, 2). A real change, not jackasses or elephants, and then we need to work through those, selected from among ourselves, to effect structural changes to ensure that we are ultimately in charge, and in an emergency can break the glass and take matters into our own hands.

@95 chipnik

It's not about Stein or Johnson, it's about awakening and then organizing ourselves. There's little left for us to do in an election, our only option is to increase the 'other' vote until it exceeds either of the menagerie candidates', organizing all the while, narrowing the choices outside the menagerie. Once 'other' does exceed the menagerie count we will have delegitimated the animal farm, and once we actually settle on a single candidate to vote in ... in each of the 537 cases, we cannot vote for the other 9, yet ... we will have won. It'll take several election cycles ... if we had begun in 2004 we might well have been done by now. Other scenarios for seizing power? I'm all ears.

Posted by: jfl | Nov 6, 2016 11:26:33 PM | 99

It should be well understood by now that the vote rigging is a real issue. If the actual numbers were 10 or 20 percent, the counters will not allow the outside candidates to reach the magic 5 percent threshold.

Posted by: fast freddy | Nov 7, 2016 6:51:25 AM | 100

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