Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 03, 2016

Russia Finds - Shaming The U.S. Government Into Action Can Work

Russia has now managed twice to shame the U.S. into action against Jihadis by publicly demonstrating that the U.S. is not really committed to its promises.

During 2014 and 2015 the U.S. did very little to attack the Islamic State. U.S. strikes hit irrelevant targets like an "ISIS excavator" or some lone truck. Meanwhile ISIS was making millions per day from pumping oil out of the Syrian desert and selling it to Turkish contacts. Hundreds of Turkish tanker trucks assembled near the oil wells in south-east Syria waiting to load. No airstrike would hit them.

The Russians saw this and were appalled. The loudmouth U.S. spoke about its big coalition and attacking ISIS but did essentially nothing. The Russian President Putin then decided to shame the U.S. and Obama personally. On November 15 2015 at the G20 meeting in Turkey he walked around the table and showed satellite pictures to his international colleagues. Hundreds of trucks waiting in the Syrian desert for loading without fear that anyone would harm them:

"I've demonstrated the pictures from space to our colleagues, which clearly show the true size of the illegal trade of oil and petroleum products market. Car convoys stretching for dozens of kilometers, going beyond the horizon when seen from a height of four-five thousand meters," Putin told reporters after the G20 summit.

The very next day on November 16 U.S. airplanes, for the first time, hit truck assemblies near ISIS oil wells in south-east Syria:

In the first wave of U.S. airstrikes since the Paris attacks, A-10 Thunderbolt ground attack aircraft and AC-130 gunships raked a convoy of more than 100 ISIS oil tanker trucks in Syria in a stepped-up effort to cut off a main source of terror funding, the Pentagon said Monday.

Putin had successfully shamed Obama into attacking ISIS's oil revenue.

Something similar happened Friday and today. First the Russian Foreign Minister accused the U.S. of complicity with al-Qaeda:

The Russian foreign minister said Russia has "more and more reasons to believe that from the very beginning the plan was to spare Al-Nusra and to keep it just in case for Plan B or stage two, when it would be time to change the regime."

At the daily State Department press briefing on Friday, State spokesman Toner was grilled by multiple reporters over Lavrov's accusations and the lack of U.S. attacks on al-Qaeda in Syria (aka Jabhat al-Nusra aka Jabhat Fateh al-Sham):

QUESTION: In that interview with the BBC, Foreign Secretary – Foreign Minister Lavrov said what the Russians have been saying for a number of days now, which is that accusing the United States of having failed to disentangle the Nusrah from the opposition that you support.

MR TONER: Yeah. [...]

Once we felt that we were at that point, to the best of an agreed-upon ability to reach that point, then we would say, okay, we’re ready to move on to the next phase. At that point, as I said, then it’s – the moderate opposition who are integrated with al-Nusrah would have had a choice to make.

QUESTION: So in other words, are they making a fair point here --

MR TONER: So --

QUESTION: -- the Russians? That they say you failed to do the disentangling?

MR TONER: No, because there wasn’t enough time. ...
...
QUESTION: What – just a final question: And again, with the regards to the Russian suspicions, you haven’t really gone after Nusrah that much. Have you been holding back on going after Nusrah because they were mixed with the opposition? I mean, all we hear about is the strikes on ISIS.

MR TONER: Yeah, so --

QUESTION: We don’t hear about strikes on Nusrah.

MR TONER: So --

(For your amusement read the longer transcript excerpt below this post or read the full one at the State Department website.)

 

State spoks Mark Toner admits that no U.S. strike had hit Nusra since March this year. His excuses are paltry and in the end he punts to the Pentagon. He really got his balls squeezed.

But that pressure, initiated by the Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov, created results. The U.S. was shamed into action and today killed some Nusra number 2: Pentagon: US targets 'core al-Qaida' member in Syria strike.

Al-Qaeda confirmed the strike:

LBCI News English Verified account @LBCI_News_EN

Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, former Nusra Front, says Egyptian alQaeda cleric Abu al-Faraj al-Masri killed in #US led coalition strike in #Idlib

10:17 AM - 3 Oct 2016

This is the very first strike on al-Qaeda in Syria, a UN designated terrorist organization which the U.S. vowed to fight, since March 2016. It comes a weekend after Lavrov accused the U.S. of not striking Nusra and a grilling at the State Department briefing.

The Russian shaming has again worked.

But it is not yet clear if this U.S. reaction to the shaming is serious, if more strikes will follow.

Abu al-Faraj al-Masri was a high commander who has been on varous target list for a long time. But he was not near any U.S. proxy force fighting together with Nusra. One expert is somewhat skeptical:

Elijah J. Magnier @EjmAlrai

Ex-Nusra (JFS) account announce the death of Egyptian Ahmad Salama Mabrouk, aka Abu Faraj al Masri, 2d in command of JFS & #AQ core leader pic

9:50 AM - 3 Oct 2016
...
Mabrouk was killed by a drone in Darkouch, #Idlib, #Syria, the HQ and gathering of #AQ/#Nusra/#JFS & Jihadists.
...
#JFS officially announce the death of Abu al-Faraj al-Masri, #AQ leader. Group still calming "we have nothing to do with Qaidat al-Jihad".
...
This is the same group that the #USA is not willing to ask its proxies in #Syria to keep a distance from (#AQ).

While the shaming worked in that it provoked the U.S. into action it had long promised but always delayed other issues between the U.S. and Russia on Syria are not going well.

Russia announced the end of military-military discussions with the U.S. about delineating zones for a longer ceasefire in Syria:

Exchange of information between Russian and US military has stopped of late despite Moscow’s commitment, Russia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov said on Monday.

The U.S. responded in kind:

The United States is suspending its participation in bilateral channels with Russia that were established to sustain the Cessation of Hostilities.
...
The U.S. will also withdraw personnel that had been dispatched in anticipation of the possible establishment of the Joint Implementation Center. To ensure the safety of our respective military personnel and enable the fight against Daesh, the United States will continue to utilize the channel of communications established with Russia to de-conflict counterterrorism operations in Syria.

The U.S. blames Russia for destroying the ceasefire by "hitting civilians". Meanwhile:

Syria Today @todayinsyria

Airstrikes by the US-led coalition reportedly killed 40 civilians in Marea, N.#Aleppo

10:30 AM - 3 Oct 2016

This ending of cooperation MAY be some crossing the Rubicon moment. The gloves are now off.

Russia has managed twice to shame the U.S. into action it had promised but not fulfilled. This will work only rarely and only when it comes at high levels (Putin, Lavrov) and with obvious evidence.

But its fun when it works and it proves that Russia, in both cases, has been right. The U.S. does not attack Jihadis but uses them for its own purpose. We will now likely see even more of this. It will continue until the U.S. is again shamed and embarrassed into following its public commitments to attack the terrorist instead of cooperating with them.

 

--End

Relevant excerpts of the Sep 29 State Department press briefing regarding U.S. attacks on Nusra:

QUESTION: In that interview with the BBC, Foreign Secretary – Foreign Minister Lavrov said what the Russians have been saying for a number of days now, which is that accusing the United States of having failed to disentangle the Nusrah from the opposition that you support.

MR TONER: Yeah. ...

Once we felt that we were at that point, to the best of an agreed-upon ability to reach that point, then we would say, okay, we’re ready to move on to the next phase. At that point, as I said, then it’s – the moderate opposition who are integrated with al-Nusrah would have had a choice to make.

QUESTION: So in other words, are they making a fair point here --

MR TONER: So --

QUESTION: -- the Russians? That they say you failed to do the disentangling?

MR TONER: No, because there wasn’t enough time. ...
...
QUESTION: What – just a final question: And again, with the regards to the Russian suspicions, you haven’t really gone after Nusrah that much. Have you been holding back on going after Nusrah because they were mixed with the opposition? I mean, all we hear about is the strikes on ISIS.

MR TONER: Yeah, so --

QUESTION: We don’t hear about strikes on Nusrah.

MR TONER: So --
...
[Second, different question-answer exchange]
...
MR TONER: [...] In answer to your first question, which was, again, about?

QUESTION: We keep hearing about --

MR TONER: Yeah.

QUESTION: -- striking ISIS, but never --

MR TONER: Oh.

QUESTION: -- about striking Nusrah.

MR TONER: We did carry out strikes initially, back in 2014-2015, against Nusrah. But absolutely, you’re correct in that, as they became intermingled and as they became intermingled in civilian areas, we’ve always sought to limit the possibility of civilian casualties in any of our airstrikes. ...
...
QUESTION: Could I just ask a follow-up?

MR TONER: Of course. I’ll get to you.

QUESTION: You hit Nusrah – I believe you described it as al-Qaida – maybe in March --

MR TONER: Affiliate, yeah.

QUESTION: -- or something or – it was earlier this year.

MR TONER: Yep.

QUESTION: Since then, there hasn’t been any specific action against Nusrah, is that right? Military action.

MR TONER: No, but I’d have to double check.

QUESTION: Okay.
...
QUESTION: Why aren’t you attacking Nusrah anyhow if it’s in U.S. interest?

MR TONER: That’s what I was saying, is – but I – and I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear --

QUESTION: No, no. I understand what you’re saying, but how would that change by cooperating with Russia? You still wouldn’t attack civilian populations, buildings --

MR TONER: No, but I – but what we, again – and I’m – I would really encourage you to talk to someone at the Pentagon who can give you a much more detailed tactical view of this. ...
...
QUESTION: If you had actionable intelligence against Nusrah senior leaders, as you describe them, would you --

MR TONER: Would we --

QUESTION: -- be able to target them today or not? Because Aleppo and Idlib and a lot of these areas --

MR TONER: Yeah.

QUESTION: -- are out of your – are they in the confliction zone?

MR TONER: I would – I don’t want to – so I would encourage you to talk to somebody --

QUESTION: Okay.

MR TONER: -- from the Department of Defense, whether we would be able to – through our de-confliction mechanism be able to target them.

QUESTION: Okay.

Posted by b on October 3, 2016 at 02:45 PM | Permalink

Comments

But "shaming" is a once and done for US empire for PR purposes.
And of course the US will go after the shamer - Russia - more then for who they have been exposed supporting.

Just like the US whistleblowers. They shamed the US government, but then whistleblowers were, harassed, thrown in jail, and even tortured like Chelsea Manning.
So shaming does nothing to the US, it just pisses them off.

As if resistance is even close to shaming.

Once again proven that the Russian idiocy of inviting the US into Syria has brought the US snake and it's lies and aggression closer to make more trouble with.
That way world WW3 is closer than ever before because they're actively Internally engaged, instead of on the outside.

Another example of resistance is far superior to shaming

Posted by: tom | Oct 3, 2016 3:21:06 PM | 1

US spokesperson today invoked UNSCR2254 as a basis to drop cooperation with Russia, citing violations of humanitarian commitments. However, that resolution also affirms UNSCR2249, which directs the parties to “redouble” efforts against designated terrorist groups and “eradicate the safe haven they have established.” Clearly east Aleppo is a safe haven for al-Nusra. The Americans now seem to be arguing that humanitarian law should hold precedent over military operations, even if those operations have UN backing. That could be seen as an admirable position, but it has never informed US doctrine before. For example, they argued exactly the opposite during Israel’s two bombing campaigns on Gaza. The presence of al-Nusra in Aleppo is never referred to by the US, and is a fact which has been meticulously scrubbed from mainstream media reports.

Posted by: jayc | Oct 3, 2016 3:22:24 PM | 2

them damn russians getting in the way of oded yinon.


US Suspends Diplomatic Relations With Russia On Syria


Unfortunately, Russia failed to live up to its own commitments, including its obligations under international humanitarian law," Kirby said, in the statement.

According to the US spokesman, Russia was "either unwilling or unable to ensure Syrian regime adherence to the arrangements to which Moscow agreed.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-03/us-suspends-bilateral-diplomatic-relations-russia-syria


john kerry is 100% he is more paddy and mick than the blarney stone.

looks like you can take the kerry out of the cohen

Newfound Jewish roots gave Kerry a ‘deep’ bond with Israel


http://www.timesofisrael.com/newfound-jewish-roots-gave-kerry-a-deep-bond-with-israel/

Posted by: cdrake | Oct 3, 2016 3:23:56 PM | 3

Poor Toner, how can he advocate hitting Al Nusra Front, when they and the US share the same regime change aims? Al Nusra Front are the main cutting edge of this policy and are by far the most numerous and dangerous to the Syrian Government. People like Petraus have openly called on the US to back them, if Nusra are defeated that's the end of war, and with it, the strengthening of the 'Arc of resistance' a catastrophic outcome for America's middle east policy.

Posted by: harrylaw | Oct 3, 2016 3:37:13 PM | 4

This ending of cooperation MAY be some crossing the Rubicon moment. The gloves are now off.

No need for the qualification b. We're at the edge, one or both sides will find a way to back off or they won't. The Russian spokesperson said any escalation would be tectonic and regional. The swift btw, was hit from above, not the side, limiting the types of missile that could have been used. I'm fairly sure that several types of ASM use that attack profile, but I need to do more research obviously.

Posted by: Wwinsti | Oct 3, 2016 3:42:28 PM | 5

White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said “everybody’s patience with Russia has run out.

“What is clear is there is nothing more for the US and Russia to talk about with regard to trying to reach an agreement that would reduce the levels of violence inside of Syria. And that’s tragic,” Earnest said.

Kirby said the Russian and US militaries will continue to use a communications channel set up to ensure their forces do not get in each others’ way during “counterterrorism operations in Syria.”

But the United States is calling home personnel who had been sent to Geneva in order to set-up a “Joint Implementation Center” with Russian officers to plan coordinated strikes.

And US diplomats will suspend discussions with Russia on reviving a September 9 deal reached between US Secretary of State John Kerry and Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

Posted by: charles drake | Oct 3, 2016 3:43:49 PM | 6

#1 @Tom: Russia never "invited" the US into Syria. The US was already there. Russia is trying to mitigate the danger US operations present as much as possible without provoking open conflict. Other bold talkers might yell that Russia should be fighting back more against the US more but keep in mind that Russia is trying to avoid WWIII while protecting the Syrian people and Russian interests in the region.

Posted by: WorldBLee | Oct 3, 2016 4:00:22 PM | 7

@6

White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said “everybody’s patience with Russia has run out.

By far the most important statement from him was that Russia didn't achieve her goals in Syria and took credit for "successful" operations by US and her "allies". But then again, it is also a well known fact that USA alone defeated Wehrmacht and liberated the world from Nazism.

Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Oct 3, 2016 4:12:02 PM | 8

the head chop videos of rita katz of site intel group.
the bad bin ladin videos the hd head chop sotloff movie.
the cinemascope isis sfx heavy film clips big budget hollywood and london for oded yinon gladio
strategy and tension.

Bell Pottinger
Timothy John Leigh Bell, Baron Bell is a British advertising and public relations executive, best known for his advisory role in Margaret Thatcher's three successful general election campaigns.


Fake news and false flags: How the Pentagon paid a British PR firm $500M for top secret Iraq propaganda

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2016/10/02/fake-news-and-false-flags-how-the-pentagon-paid-a-british-pr-firm-500m-for-top-secret-iraq-propaganda/

Posted by: charles drake | Oct 3, 2016 4:16:33 PM | 9

The US crossed the Rubicon with Obama's 2015 UNGA speech. Russia had just moved into Syria but had not yet commenced anti terrorist action in support of Syrian government. At that point US had to choose which way it would go. Fight terrorism with Russia, or continue supporting terrorism for regime change. At that point the US could have changed course with some grace.

Posted by: Peter AU | Oct 3, 2016 4:50:29 PM | 10

#9: Bell Pottinger

If you google "Lincoln Group Iraq", you'll find articles from 2006 on the military's disinformation campaign. This was also alluded to in the Washington Post April 2006 in "The US Play Up the Role of Zarqawi."

Posted by: Les | Oct 3, 2016 4:58:35 PM | 11

I hope the Russians are considering the flip side to this new found ability - namely to be careful what (and how often) you "shame" for.

The US could (ie. WOULD) start attacking everything/anything remotely "close" to the terrorists and "targeting error"/"collateral damage" away the inevitable killing of Syrian (Russian?) forces saying "but you 'told' us to..."

It's a delicate game requiring some considerable craft on the part of the Russian/Syrian alliance. So far they are exhibiting the level of craft required for success. Hate to see some cosmic balance shifted away from the current success just as they're about to achieve some major milestones (liberate Aleppo).

Posted by: ritzl | Oct 3, 2016 5:02:57 PM | 12

That pro-migrant lawmaker KO'd by Germans were given a note with a peculiar quote: "You did not listen, so you must feel"

This is the same with American politicians. They are completely devoid of consequences for their actions, and the American public are a mix of being too ignorant, too divided, and too dogmatically tied to the system to do anything of note.

Perhaps if 5,10,whatever million Americans mobbed into DC and demanded justice (+ a list of names) for atrocious policy and the outright fleecing of aggregate wealth, there might be some chance of turning things around. Instead, everybody rat-races while they impotently witness their communities descending into dangerous, post-industrial disaster zones

Posted by: bbbb | Oct 3, 2016 5:05:38 PM | 13

Wwinsti | Oct 3, 2016 3:42:28 PM | 5
Where does it say it was hit from above? There's very little information available in the MSM although most reports mention the Chinese C-802.

There were two tweets about the Swift earlier. One, since deleted, claimed that some Emirati and Qatari intelligence officers had been captured near Mokha, the alleged destination for the Swift. They were there to drink coffee no doubt. The other claimed that there were 52 (I think) crew, including three members of the royal families, killed or wounded.

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 3, 2016 5:07:56 PM | 14

So US finally gave up the cherade as they couldn't keep up the pretence anymore. Their assets in Eastern Aleppo are being pounded into dust and rightly so. Those jihadi retards have rejected(under pressure from US's allies) any peaceful initiative and have insisted on fighting. Let them eat bombs!!!

I'm left scratching my head as to why the Russias thought the US will honor/abide by any deal they make!!!

Posted by: Zico | Oct 3, 2016 5:19:03 PM | 15

" ... the U.S. is not really committed to its promises."

The US has never really committed to its promises. Why should they change now? Look at the history of US treaties and promises. Can you find more than a couple that the US stuck to? The US has, is and will say whatever it thinks will cause the other side to let down their guard ... then strike again and again. And, please, don't give me any crap about how the government dupes the good people of the US. Sure, there are a few good people ... but by and large the US is what its population wants it to be ... an aggressor for the status quo ... in which we take whatever it is we want and the definition of the bad guy is always someone who resists the exceptionally indispensable nation of greed heads.

Finally, you can't shame the shameless ... .

Posted by: rg the lg | Oct 3, 2016 5:29:55 PM | 16

A crawler on a random MSM channel today regarding the liberation of one section of terrorist-controlled Aleppo begins; "Forces loyal to the Assad regime...."

As if there were some actual split in the Syrian military, Assad was going rogue with his own small militia or something. This is how stupid they regard their audience.

"Forces loyal to the Assad Regime..."

GIVE ME A BREAK

Posted by: sejomoje | Oct 3, 2016 5:39:45 PM | 17

@ Ghostship #14.

My post is pure speculation based on eyeballing the video. Admittedly, bad editing might be more of a factor than I realized, but the superstructure of the ship is what looks to be most involved flame wise on a ship with a catamaran hull design. A ship fire would probably evolve that way eventually given time, my impression of the video however, is of a fire filmed over minutes, not hours.

Posted by: Wwinsti | Oct 3, 2016 5:40:58 PM | 18

One thing that puzzles me about this debacle is that both the US and the Russians are still talking about "moderate" rebels but it's not at all clear who they mean when they talk of these "moderates". And what does "moderate" even mean in the context of groups fighting to the death in the name of a putitanical, intolerant and xenophobic religious ideology? An Islamist, by definition, wants to establish a state in which the shariah, as interpreted by his particular sect, is the law of the land. In Syria the Sunni rebel groups all represent offshoots of Wahhabism...that most intolerant Saudi spawned sect whose primary enemy is Shi'ism followed by every other sect and religion that doesn't follow the dogma as laid down by Mr. al Wahhab. This includes fellow Sunnis who have "gone astray".

Al Qaeda is more "moderate" than ISIS but is this at all meaningful here? Will the Druze, Alawis, Christians, Shia Muslims and "deviated" Sunnis of Syria sigh with relief if "moderate" AQ forces an Islamic state on them rather than the media savvy ghouls of ISIS? It's absurd. I wonder if Russia is pretending to go along with the "separate the moderates from the hardliners" line just to hand the US administration the rope with which it will (hopefully) hang itself?

Posted by: Temporarily Sane | Oct 3, 2016 6:17:49 PM | 19

Russia’s aim right from the start (re. Syria) was to show up, expose, the US in public, to Europe, the World, the UN, others - Asia etc. Some success there, OK.

Boiling it down to bitter toxic dregs, the US has blamed islamists terrorists for 1000 ills, incl. 9/11 but has variously supported (short, rough..) in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, Syria: the Taliban, Al Quaeda, ‘rebels’ in Lybia, and now ISIS / al Nusra in Syria. Plus > the Arab Spring and many moves in favor of the Muslim broherhood.

The contradictions are becoming too stark for the US Gvmt to maintain facing public opinion. (See Killary-Trump.) In poodle Europe, as well.

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 3, 2016 6:18:24 PM | 20

Russians get deadly serious, start stockpiling plutonium, and are laying groundwork for jettisoning New START nuclear reduction treaty as soon as it expires in 2021 - or even sooner, if geopolitical situation worsens.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-usa-nuclear-idUSKCN1230YN

The conditions Moscow demands that Washington must fulfill in order to resume plutonium phase-out are so onerous that one can't help to conclude that Russia made a final decision to embark on nuclear rearmament back to Soviet-era levels.

Posted by: telescope | Oct 3, 2016 6:25:01 PM | 21

@19 I don't think the Russians have any illusions about 'moderate' rebels.

I don't think the US government does either but they have to go along with the charade in order to preserve the 'good-guy' high ground.

Posted by: dh | Oct 3, 2016 6:33:13 PM | 22

Also remember that just before firing on the tanker convoy the US dropped leaflets warning of their own impending attacks.

Posted by: Elwood | Oct 3, 2016 6:39:15 PM | 23

19
Al Qaeda is more "moderate" than ISIS
nice one

read up on frank kitson gang couter gang pseudo gangs
read up on tavistock institute
the private army sas set up by david sterling who protected the house of saud for decades.
read about robin cook and his comments on al ciada the base index file
chatham house brookings country take downs
for greater israel oded yinon year zero projects.
that is why history must be erased alleppo had way to much history.
once complete jewish historians like bbc man simon scharma can write the bbc spielberg histories anew.

gangs counter gangs actors and agents hired hands and lunatics fakery and rita katz bell pottinger lies.
clean out the locals for the redrawing of the kosher maps.

fox news man rupurt murdoch and jacob rothchild drilling on the golan via ownership of genie energy speaks loud does it not.
epic leviathan oil and gas off the coast of palestine.
maybe israel can use some of the 40 billion in new aid to pay for refugee homes in hobokum,wolverhampton,glasgow,nice and detroit and dusseldorf.


Posted by: cdrake | Oct 3, 2016 7:04:36 PM | 24

@ Telescope 21
RT suggests the agreement was cancelled because the US changed the
agreed disposal technique - irreversibly burning the fuel as MOX -
to a mix with additives one, whereby the Plutonium could later be recovered.

Putin noted that Russia has built facilities for the irreversible method;
the US has not.

So much for the Nobel prize winning presidents pledge to rid the world of
nuclear weapons - he's even signed to spend more than a trillion dollars
to make them more 'user friendly' and 'reliable'
(lookup the M61-12; it could be visiting a site near you before long
...you won't even see it coming... )

https://www.rt.com/news/361411-russia-suspend-plutonium-deal/

Posted by: DavidKNZ | Oct 3, 2016 7:11:55 PM | 25

b- Obama and company including both his SOSs are the most shameless people on this planet, I wouldn't kid myself with being shamed in to this, even if it happened.

Posted by: Kooshy | Oct 3, 2016 7:33:23 PM | 26

If the USA openly attacks Al Nusra, they will have the Saudis, Qataris and Kuwaitis in hysteria as they are the ones who have been funding them for 5 years. Turkey id numb on the subject and closer to Russia than to the USA it keeps criticizing

If the USA openly attacks Al Nusra it will be accused by the media of helping Bashar al Assad to stay in power as the rebels will be annihilated together with Al Nusra.
The only solution left to Kerry is to play the frustrated and step aside to allow Russia to carry the dirty job and get the insults from human rights, from the UN and media funded by Saudi Arabia.
Kerry will appear shocked and horrified but the USA will appear as 'moral' and faithful to Saudi Arabia.
This is especially important as the Congress has just slapped the Saudis with the threat of 9/11 suits.
Kerry is secretly hoping that before he leaves, East of Aleppo would have fallen quickly into the Syrian army control so political negotiations can start under the UN umbrella and a new US administration.

Posted by: virgile | Oct 3, 2016 7:46:12 PM | 27

@ telescope 21

I observe your comment with link to MSM Reuters news agency is full of pigs’ turd.

Long on patience Putin did promise a response to further NATO’s expansion so this decree covers many issues:

Putin signs decree suspending Russia-US deal on plutonium disposal over hostile US actions
https://www.rt.com/news/361411-russia-suspend-plutonium-deal/

A decree signed by Russian President Vladimir Putin cites “the radical change in the environment, a threat to strategic stability posed by the hostile actions of the US against Russia, and the inability of the US to deliver on the obligation to dispose of excessive weapons plutonium under international treaties, as well as the need to take swift action to defend Russian security” as justification for suspending the deal.

While Russia suspended the plutonium reprocessing deal, it stressed that the Russian fissile material, which was subject to it, would not be used for any military purpose, be it production of new weapons or research.

..[.] the uranium agreement may be resumed, provided the US takes steps to eliminate the causes of the suspension. In particular, Moscow wants Washington to curb its military presence on the territories of NATO members which have joined the alliance after September 1, 2000, to the number at which they were at the moment of signing the agreement, Russian media report.

The draft bill also mentions repeal of the so-called Magnitsky law and of sanctions against Russian regions, persons and companies introduced by the US over Ukrainian crisis, while also paying compensation for damages caused by them, including the damages caused by the counter-sanctions that Russia was forced to impose.. [.]

Moscow also wants Washington to provide a clear plan how it is going to irreversibly reprocess plutonium under the agreement’s conditions. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov later said in a statement that Russia’s suspension of the agreement is “a forced measure.” According to the minister, Moscow has always viewed the Russia-US deal on plutonium disposal as an important step to nuclear disarmament.
“Unfortunately, in recent years the US has made a number of unfriendly steps towards Russia. In particular, under false pretexts, Washington introduced large-scale economic and other sanctions against Russia,” he said. “The US has started the build-up of its military forces and NATO infrastructure close to Russia’s borders. Washington and its allies openly talk about ‘restraining’ Russia.”

Lavrov added that Russia’s move “is a signal to Washington”:

“Trying to talk with Russia using strength, the language of sanctions and ultimatums, and still maintain selective cooperation with our country only in those areas where it is beneficial for the US, won’t work,” he added.

The treaty between the US and Russia, which regulates how the two countries are to dispose of plutonium from nuclear warheads decommissioned as part of the parallel reduction of the two countries’ Cold War arsenals, was signed in 2000. Each country was required to dispose of over 34 tons of fissile material by turning it into so-called MOX fuel and burning it in nuclear reactors. [.]
costs for building a facility at the Savannah River Site in South Carolina, where the US was supposed to fabricate MOX fuel from its plutonium, spiraled out of control. Under the Obama administration, the US decided that it would instead use the cheaper reversible process, arguing that it was in line with the spirit of the deal with Russia.[.]

Russia expressed its concerns over the unilateral move in April, shortly after a nuclear security summit held in the US.
“We signed an agreement that the plutonium will be processed in a certain way, for which facilities would be purpose-built,” Putin said at the time. “We have met our commitments, and constructed the necessary facilities. The US has not.”

~ ~ ~

the environment has certainly changed. This is some hot talk and demands from Moscow.

Time and again, US fails its commitments, unilaterally changes agreements/treaties. If you don't have a conscience, you can't grow one.

Posted by: likklemore | Oct 3, 2016 7:46:45 PM | 28

But US strikes against al Nusra do not make it to the regular US media. We and a few others paying attention see this but the majority do not. Or we get excuses like when 60 Minutes went to one of the military control areas and Stahl was shown that yes they knew where ISIS was but because ISIS had children with them ... strikes were not done. The idea that this is war and ISIS is using the children as human shields is not shown. Yep ISIS is bad but for some reason they're not making the news either except the future attack on Mosul. Otherwise the main story has been Russian Syrian attacks on Aleppo.

Excellent points tom 1 and jayc 2.

Posted by: Curtis | Oct 3, 2016 8:05:29 PM | 29

Here is a well written piece that says what needs to be said:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/barbarism-in-words-and-deeds-barbarism-of-u-s-imperial-wars-is-unmatched/5549133
We are the barbarians ... led by those we elected ... to save our world for us. If Americans REALLY objected to our foreign policy, something would happen to change it. As it is, there is only blathering and pontificating by the comfortable who just might have a conscience but no will to change.

Sad bunch, aren't we?

Posted by: rg the lg | Oct 3, 2016 8:07:11 PM | 30

Fucking France, UK, Germany, Spain and warmonger king Amerikka already complicit to crimes against humanity slaughted hundred of thousand and million displaced refugees... You can bet China will stand beside Russia!

U.N. discusses urging end to all military flights over Syria's Aleppo

Russia and China have previously protected the Syrian government from council action by blocking several resolutions, including a bid to refer the situation in Syria to the International Criminal Court.

French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault has said that any state that opposes the resolution would be deemed complicit in war crimes.He told TV5 Monde television on Monday that he hoped to obtain results on the draft resolution this week.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/u-n-discuss-urging-end-military-flights-over-163155474.html

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 3, 2016 8:09:53 PM | 31

@rg the lg | Oct 3, 2016 8:07:11 PM | 30

"Sad bunch, aren't we?"

...and your suggestion(s) to bring about a regime change here?

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 3, 2016 8:13:18 PM | 32

I believe that the escalation in Syria shows that the time for any form of nuclear disarmament, except by expenditure, has been and gone. Likewise, any notion of "second strike" deterrence has been exposed as pointless posery at best, suicidal naivete at worst.

The entire Western Civilisation vs Easter Barbarism, Democracy vs Dictatorship, and capitalism vs communism/fascism dichotomy has been exposed as one grand sham, possibly one of several such interlinked shams.

It has always been simply about maintaining and growing the legacy assets of the British Feudal Empire at all cost, against whoever might challenge the ownership and plans for its perpetual growth ad infinitum.

Long on warheads and total megatonnage.

Posted by: Quadriad | Oct 3, 2016 8:21:10 PM | 33

Have we really crossed the Rubicon here? I have no choice but to believe the inertia resulting from recent developments wont take us to the other bank.. Yet.

Posted by: Lozion | Oct 3, 2016 8:45:01 PM | 34

Strike believe and add hope..

Posted by: Lozion | Oct 3, 2016 8:46:00 PM | 35

Jack Smith said: "...and your suggestion(s) to bring about a regime change here?"

Regime change will not take place in the US. Regime collapse may. The vast majority of (mindless) Americans are too enthralled with the status quo, with NOT rocking the apple cart most Americans believe is their just due.

Americans have never, really, been at all revolutionary. Most believe in consensus and continuity with a mild dash of so-called progressivism thrown in for good measure.

So, no, I'm not calling for revolution. Though I will say that a revolution is badly needed ... one with pitch forks and barricades ... and blood ankle deep in the streets. Maybe then the indispensable and exceptional nation will realize what the rest of the world already knows: we are neither an indispensable nor an exceptional nation. Unless, of course the indispensable and exceptional nation is one of bellicosity and greed.

Posted by: rg the lg | Oct 3, 2016 8:54:19 PM | 36

25. 28.

Five months ago Moscow warned Washington that the START treaty will not survive past expiration date.

https://sputniknews.com/military/20160512/1039489776/russia-start-air-defense.html

It's not all that difficult to connect the dots with what happened today. Unless Hillary or Trump cancel ABM, demilitarize Eastern Europe and lift sanctions, Russia will be rearming, and with even more lethal weaponry than in the Cold War One.

Posted by: telescope | Oct 3, 2016 9:09:01 PM | 37

for the sake of brookings,pinac and chatham house oded yinon

for the sake of the media and humanity
it is ok to overthrow and replace a government
with whatever.

Syria Truth - Assad Vilification Agenda - Syria Invasion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV8wC74W66I

Posted by: cdrake | Oct 3, 2016 9:51:53 PM | 38

No Lozion.

I do have children of my own and hope against all odds they will be able to live long and healthy enough to have their own healthy kids too some day, if they wish so.

But I believe (ok, call it "strongly fear", if you will) that we will. At this point, I am quite pessimistic about anything being able to avert a major rearmament for a total war the likes of which no human has seen before.

In fact, I have little doubt that major re-arming is already happening behind the curtains, above and beyond what is being publicly admitted.

Posted by: Quadriad | Oct 3, 2016 9:54:19 PM | 39

More fallout in response to the US' decision to suspend cooperation with Russia over Syria:
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20161003/1045964491/russia-syria-air-base.html

“Russian Lawmakers May Soon Ratify Syria Air Base Deal”

The Russian parliament has indicated that it may ratify a new agreement for the deployment of a Russian air group at Hmeimim air base by the end of the week.[.]

The agreement would authorize deployment of a Russian air group to the base for an unspecified period of time.

The source added that the agreement is a proper response to the US decision to suspend bilateral talks with Russia over Syria.[.]

~ ~ ~ ~

Russia has had enough of US antics.


Posted by: likklemore | Oct 3, 2016 9:55:07 PM | 40

Quadriad, have a plan B and lay low..
Likklemore, what consists of an air group? A few squadrons or wings?

Posted by: Lozion | Oct 3, 2016 10:27:46 PM | 41

With all the action 'up north', little is being said about southern Syria. In case anyone has missed the news coming out of there for the last month: the U.S. and Gulf cronies have all but abandoned the Amman, Jordan Military Operations Center (MOC). Which means they have abandoned the coalition of rebels known as the Southern Front. Abandoned in all ways: training, arms, paychecks. The rebels are being hammered by the Syrians and allies and lose territory every day. There will only be a few hold-out groups, like the Israeli- or Saudi/Qatari-supported al Nusra units. Those will eventually be wiped out.

I was surprised to find this odd sort of half-mea culpa from the Atlantic Council on Baladi News (never herd of them before). If the Atlantic Council (of all people) is acknowledging that their southern Syria project has kind of gone off the rails and is having some problems, then you can assume that the U.S./Gulfies have been utterly defeated in southern Syria. How come we didn't hear about this on CNN?

Team Chaos have all but packed up and left the Amman MOC. Apparently the new MOC is now effectively run by Jordan and Russia today, meaning no head-chopper support. Jordan got cold feet a while back when they considered what a bad idea it would be for their Syrian neighbors to be a Wahabbi caliphate. I think it was the head-chopping.

The MOC’s Role in the Collapse of the Southern Opposition

Secondly, if anyone is interested in the Druze in southwest Syria (kind of like Houthis - tough mountain people): I stumbled upon this excellent article that cleared up a lot of confusion I had about their plight. It's kind of like the Kurd situation, except the Druze knew better to trust either Israel or the U.S. schemes for independence. A puppet Druze government in an independent state would have given Israel even more of a buffer from Syria and the Lebanese Hezbollah. Israel was so serious about it that they were willing to give them the stolen Golan. The Druze (very wisely, I might add) said, "Er... No thanks. We'll keep killing head-choppers with the Syrian Army and remain a part of Syria."

The Druze in the Syrian Conflict – By Talal El Atrache

If anyone remembers from way back, Israel (through the failed MOC) supported al Nusra in their conquest of all the hills along Syria's southern border overlooking occupied Golan. These were perfect for air defense, surveillance and intelligence-gathering against the Israelis. Those hills (previously held by the SAA) fell one by one to TOW-equipped head-choppers with Israeli air and missile support.

The crowning jewel on Israel's land-grabbing by proxy scheme would have been Mount Hermon, but that's exactly where their campaign failed. They didn't count on the Druze. Mount Hermon it at the top of the previous Israeli land-theft scheme: the UNDOF zone. Nobody is kicking the Druze off of Mt. Hermon, and certainly not Israel or their head-chopper proxies. This has absolutely infuriated Israel, who already failed to turn them into Israeli/Western lapdogs with their own independent state. I like the Druze.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Oct 4, 2016 12:00:11 AM | 42

(Video) Russian Ambassador to the UN Vitali Churkin discussed the Syrian conflict....

This video you should watch on Syria. Coolheaded Churkin facing hostile questions from fucking MSM reporters.

https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20161003/1045965859/us-russia-syria-churkin-statement.html

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 4, 2016 12:33:41 AM | 43

@42 Paveway - greatly, greatly appreciate the links and your summaries - you distilled an amazingly concise sitrep out of all those words.

These are two excellent articles, and the second is a world class essay of tremendous length on the myriad nuances of the Druze situation and position - I was holding my breath reading some parts of the elaborate story. It's a great keeper reference.

You've been mentioning the Druze recently, but it's been hard to know what to make of them. Finally you cracked it, and shared it with us all. Thanks again.

I like the Druze too. Mt Hermon looks like good country, grassy and with clear air. And Swaida seems a cool city to hang in. I pray the Druze keep it all safe from possession by foreign devils. It ain't over yet, but at least we know who to pray for now.

Posted by: Grieved | Oct 4, 2016 12:38:25 AM | 44

@242 pw

good stuff. thanks.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 4, 2016 12:44:23 AM | 45

Paveway @ 42:

Thanks for the news on Syria's southern borders. Israel's hold on the Golan Heights might be starting to look shaky and for the first time Syria can contemplate reclaiming the territory from both Israel and Genie Energy.

Posted by: Jen | Oct 4, 2016 1:10:36 AM | 46

#42 PW4

Druze FTW, in total agreement. Unlike the Kurds, those guys are smart as well as honorable enough to actually deserve their own state - mainly carved out of the present Yisraeli Galil and Golan of course. Ignoring the traitor shitstains from among their ranks like Jumblatt or that Clooney's inhuman wrongs lawgirl.

Btw, on the topic of the Druze, I know your Kurd sympathies and I can understand them, but after Hassakah I gotta say that the legendary General Zahreddine more than anyone else feels like Saladin's worthy reincarnation, not those dumbass YPG Hmong loser wannabes. Perhaps someone like Saladin being born a Kurd was a divine or historical record mistake, an exception that as such confirms the rule in general. The today's Kurds don't have anyone with a fraction of Saladin's greatness.

Posted by: Quadriad | Oct 4, 2016 1:11:55 AM | 47

#20 Noirette

I have to say, the Syrian war aggression alone has destroyed more American face than all other US wars of aggression combined, and there's plenty of competition from the likes of Vietnam and Iraq.

We are not talking about an intentionally dishonorable but otherwise well educated people like Zionists. We are talking about ANIMAL lack of idea of what honor might possible be. The US Federal government and the entire Federal political system, including all departments, seems to be staffed and packed full with SUBHUMANs, and quite possibly SUB-ANIMAL entities, from the top down going very, very far down.

Posted by: Quadriad | Oct 4, 2016 1:26:09 AM | 48

Great article on and by a Druze.. well worth the reading. Secularism is key in the Levant.
May the SAA and minority militias rid us of this takfiri vermin once and for all..

Posted by: Lozion | Oct 4, 2016 1:49:51 AM | 49

Re: Posted by: jayc | Oct 3, 2016 3:22:24 PM | 2

Of course this isn't a surprise. This is entirely predicted and expected behavior.

I'd be surprised if anyone was surprised by this sort of statement!?!?

I'd especially be surprised if the Russians, or Syrians for that matter, were the least bit surprised by this.

Posted by: Julian | Oct 4, 2016 2:13:29 AM | 50

Re: Posted by: Wwinsti | Oct 3, 2016 3:42:28 PM | 5

Surely a place like Qatar with their various oil and gas installations would be quite a juicy target, if not their mates across the sands in Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: Julian | Oct 4, 2016 2:18:37 AM | 51

This might be a controversial view, but the best way to get the US to stop molly-coddling Al-Qaeda is to put some serious meat in the game - and by meat, I mean a bait - for Al-Qaeda.

What is that?

If Russia announced they were putting a dozen nukes into Syria to use in case of "emergency" - how do you think regional actors like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel would react?

Do you think they'd continue pumping money and arms to the jihadis who then if they won might get to grab a dozen nukes - which they could then obviously use on Tel Aviv, Istanbul, Riyadh or Amman?

I somehow doubt it.

Of course they'd protest loudly about Russia doing this, but Russia could merely point to the US nukes in Turkey and use the same justification.

It might only be by doing something like that that Russia could get the rest of the hyenas to actually rethink their policy of sending guns and ammo to these crazies throughout Syria.

Posted by: Julian | Oct 4, 2016 2:31:11 AM | 52

@42 pw4

Actually reading the articles at your links above I note that the first is the fruit of the Atlantic Council. I noticed this morning that wsws.org had an article with the cheery title, The “major and deadly” wars to come, which revolves around a publication of Atlantic Council titled The Future of the Army . Sounds like it might be of interest to you.

Although I can't tell what impact it might have, it certainly does seem to outline the wet dreams of the neo-con psychopaths behind the non-stop expansion of the MIC and its expenditure of munitions and men. The return of the draft, the army policing at home ... bleak indeed. I've only read the “major and deadly” wars to come, not yet The Future of the Army itself.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 4, 2016 4:34:59 AM | 53

Meanwhile MSM is spinning the facts.


Instead, after just a few days of a fitful truce, both Syria and Russia stepped up their bombing attacks in Aleppo and elsewhere in the country, including the destruction of an aid convoy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-suspends-efforts-to-work-with-russia-on-syria-cease-fire/2016/10/03/b907dbe2-8991-11e6-bff0-d53f592f176e_story.html

The truth comes in the comments:


Donald McGuire
7:58 AM GMT+0200

No mention of the airstrike that killed the Syrian soldiers causing the cease-fire to collapse....Hmmmm.

Posted by: From The Hague | Oct 4, 2016 4:51:09 AM | 54

From a couple days ago J Kerry conversation with "Moderates" appears to indicate he has always been war party:

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/361313-syria-kerry-leaked-tapes/

"The New York Times acquired the taped conversation between the US Secretary of State and two dozen Syrian civilians from education, rescue, and medical groups working in rebel-held areas, during a meeting on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly.

The leaked recording reveals how angry John Kerry really is about being unable to topple President Bashar Assad by military means.

“I've argued for use of force. I stood up. I’m the guy who stood up and announced we’re going to attack Assad because of the weapons, and then you know things evolved into a different process,” the Secretary of State said in the tape.

He told the civilians that “you have nobody more frustrated than we are (the US)” that the Syrian issue is now being solved diplomatically.

Kerry also warned the Syrians, who sounded clearly unhappy with Washington’s contribution, that attempts to intervene militarily or provide more support to the rebels by the US may have a reverse effect.

“The problem is that, you know, you get, quote, ‘enforcers’ in there and then everybody ups the ante, right? Russia puts in more, Iran puts in more; Hezbollah is there more and Nusra is more; and Saudi Arabia and Turkey put all their surrogate money in, and you all are destroyed,” the diplomat explained"

I'm sure Lavrov was on to this and let it play out, as the US is now being shown many times over that it is not able to act in good faith.

Al-Nusra is probably a bit pissed off at being targeted, (does this targeted hit imply that the US has real time intel on them? That makes it the PR even more of a disaster). They hit the FSA in Marea too. Marea, isn't that where some USSF were supposed to be helping the Turkish backed FSA fight ISIS? Does the US know who it is fighting anymore, or is it target anything that is appropriate at the moment? Last week it took out 4 bridges over the Euphrates south of Deir Ezzor. I guess this was to help the SAA again.

Posted by: Dean | Oct 4, 2016 5:10:31 AM | 55

@Dean #55
US helping SAA again?

Posted by: From The Hague | Oct 4, 2016 5:19:13 AM | 56

Russia has now managed twice to shame the U.S. into action against Jihadis by publicly demonstrating that the U.S. is not really committed to its promises

two fits of violent agitation. just pathological interludes of our roving feral imperialists. shame has nothing to do with it. American warmongers love to kill and see Muslims killing each other. and this horrid little truism is not lost on the majority of Moslem people, rather, i'd say, it's penetrated their collective neocortex. and not just uncle sam's scorched-earth 'etiquette' being always on the table, but also the cheap falseness of his diplomacy and his vacuous haughty ideals. decades of transgressions of moral, intellectual, and divine law have left too many people, people with a sophisticated knowledge of humankind, deeply outraged.

and it's not a secret kept from the 'exceptional' hoi polloi either. it's some kind of collective volitional subconscious lapse. future analysis will undoubtedly amplify the still regularly contested, though always grotesque, number of fatalities and the degree of carnage from our savage war crimes. yes, America's not-so-secret-secret that's left a slew of sovereign and largely defenseless nations as depleted uranium contaminated wastelands devided by ferocious civil vengeance and blood-splattered blast walls.

Posted by: john | Oct 4, 2016 6:13:40 AM | 57

@42 pw4

You second link is to a really good article, according to my own dim lights. I agree with Grieved. Great command of Druze/Syrian history and at ease as well. There's a picture half-way through of Sultan El Atrache (or Sultan Al Atrash, according to en.wikipedia). The author's name is Talal El Atrache. I can see where he might have got his understanding and frame of reference ... "Talal El Atrache is a Syrian journalist and writer". He does not identify himself as Druze, but Syrian. Thanks again for the link. Certainly not exhausted at a single reading. I'll google up some more Talal El Atrache.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 4, 2016 6:46:01 AM | 58

US action is a double-edged sword. A US coalition strike against the peaceful city of Mareano in north Aleppo province, using AC-130 gunships (as used at Kunduz) and F-16s, killed 40 civilians.

link">http://rusvesna.su/news/1475513632&usg=ALkJrhjSxdAjYR_Td_hebVtC4vpdVx_z9w">link

They have also been blowing up bridges across the Euphrates around Deir ez Zor. That won't hinder ISIS as they use boats to take men and weapons across the river. It does hinder normal civilian traffic. This is presumably in support of a US pre-planned non-Assad enclave east of the Euphrates.

link

Posted by: Yonatan | Oct 4, 2016 7:15:16 AM | 59

Paveway IV @42.

The occupied Golan will get very interesting once the larger areas of Syria are consolidated and large parts of the SAA and allies are freed up.

The IDF trains to attack defenseless women and children. The Druze and Hezbollah, along with the SAA, are gaining serious military training dealing with well-armed and entrenched opponents in rural and urban settings.

There is a rumor that Russia has delivered latest S-300 systems to Syria. These will not be for Russian use as they defend themselves with S-400s. If true, it looks like Syria may be getting some serious air defense capabilities of its own. Israel will be totally chastened the first time one of its F-16s (or whatever) are taken out.

https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/bmpd.livejournal.com/2163617.html

Posted by: Yonatan | Oct 4, 2016 7:23:18 AM | 60

48;Hillaryous;All the US assholes are zionists.Oh yeah,well educated.In what,humanities?
Their education was about acquisition.

Posted by: dahoit | Oct 4, 2016 7:55:56 AM | 61

Wwinsti | Oct 3, 2016 5:40:58 PM | 18
Quite a few naval ships have steel hulls and aluminium superstructures which saves weight and lowers the centre of gravity to allow the long thin shape of most warships and reduce the chances of a capsize when turnng at speed. Hit and ignite the aluminium superstructure and that's a fire I don't think you can't put out with water.
Although the C-802 was first developed in 1989, the Chinese weapons procurement policies means that it's probably been updated many times as the power of computers has increased and the cost of electronics has fallen. The seeker on the C-802 included television which in the early days was probably fed back to an operator to alter the flight path. These days it's probably all handled on board the missile, so with modern image processing it shouldn't be difficult to work out where to hit the superstrucure. Thinking about how much memory and processing power is available in, say, a smartphone, it wouldn't surprise me if the latest seekers for the C-802 have been programmed to identify in most instances the target ship so it both knows exactly where to hit to cause maximum damage and what terminal flight path would be best to avoid any defences.

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 4, 2016 9:03:44 AM | 62

Yes and who will get the Nobel Peace Prize? Will it be,

1. Hillary Clinton?
2. Al-Nusra?
3. Obama?

Posted by: Rabidodos | Oct 4, 2016 9:08:07 AM | 63

62

Or White Helmets?

Posted by: Captain Cook | Oct 4, 2016 9:15:58 AM | 64

Max Blumenthal has an article up at Alternet about the Syria Campaign that's behind much of this stuff.
Inside the Shadowy PR Firm That’s Lobbying for Regime Change in Syria
I went looking for the passage below because it shows that some among the Washington elite may be starting to understand what the United States should do

This August, after the video of Al-Zenki members beheading the adolescent boy appeared online, Sam Heller, a fellow for the Washington-based Century Foundation, argued [68] for restoring the rebel group’s CIA funding. Describing Al-Zenki as “a natural, if unpalatable, partner,” Heller contended that “if Washington insists on keeping its hands perfectly clean, there’s probably no Syrian faction—in the opposition, or on any side of the war—that merits support.”

So Washington/United States should GTFO.
In another article, MB covers the White helmets.

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 4, 2016 9:31:48 AM | 65

@Ghostship #61

A metal fire would certainly explain the greenish flames aft of the main conflagration- not sure of the video's time index for that.

@ everyone else:
S/ snark tag engaged.

CNN is highly disappointed in all of you for not frothing with outrage at what's going on in Syria. They're not angry mind you, just very disappointed. If you can stomach even more white helmet videos, read on.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/04/middleeast/aleppo-what-will-make-you-care-trnd/index.html

OH, and Mr. Unnamed official down at the White House says ww3 might be required to save Aleppo.

.http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/syria-white-house-warns-actions-if-russia-won-t-negotiate-n659126

Posted by: Wwinsti | Oct 4, 2016 10:14:06 AM | 66

thnx paveway and ghostship.
Druze militias were the first term that came to mind. I had wondered about them since they're normally caught between Israel and factions in Lebanon. Two years ago Jumblatt was accusing Assad of pushing the Druze to support the govt by attacking al Nusra and then pulling back.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2014/1116/Lebanon-s-Druze-unhappily-are-being-dragged-into-Syria-s-war
But the reality is that al Nusra and their ilk are against anyone who is not totally in their camp. So this forces all the rest to ally with the govt whether they like it or not. This includes Jumblatt.

It's somewhat surprising to see the left leaning alternet opposing Obama/Clinton/Kerry efforts in Syria. At least some part of the Democrat anti-war people are still sticking to their guns. It's a shame so much of the media (incl Netflix) are in the tank for the BS.

Posted by: Curtis | Oct 4, 2016 10:28:10 AM | 67

In line with b’s title, see this article. By Jeffrey Sachs (him yes) at the Huffington post. Feb. 2016.

Hillary is the candidate of the War Machine

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-sachs/hillary-is-the-candidate_b_9168938.html

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 4, 2016 10:30:23 AM | 68

@48, Quadriad

We are not talking about an intentionally dishonorable but otherwise well educated people like Zionists.

Educated? You mean have some meaningless Ph.Ds in some pseudo-sciences which fail consistently to deliver a desirable result? Most of US "power elites", with the exception of people such as Ash Carter who is Ph.D in Physics, are a collection of humanities "educated" lawyers, political "scientists", journos--in general, categories of people who have no any applicable real world skills nor foundation for serious, especially force majeure, governance. A historical ignorance of these "elites", lack of geopolitical awareness and lack of real culture are appalling. Want to see utter, unmitigated academic disaster--look no further than US Russian Studies field. That is the problem with these "elites"--they are badly educated, they simply have more prestigious "degrees". Should they have bought those degrees without attending Ivy League degree mill--the result would have been absolutely the same.

Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Oct 4, 2016 10:53:43 AM | 69

Well that didn't take long:

Following on from the Kirk's threat of takfiri attacks against Russia and its citizens following its refusal to surrender to US terms over Syria, the takfiris have just shelled the Russian Embassy (legally Russian territory) in Damascus. A pure coincidence, I'm sure. Fortunately no staff very injured.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/syrian-islamist-rebels-shell-russian-embassy-damascus/

Posted by: Yonatan | Oct 4, 2016 11:03:27 AM | 70

One thing that puzzles me about this debacle is that both the US and the Russians are still talking about "moderate" rebels but it's not at all clear who they mean when they talk of these “moderates” .. Temporarily Sane at 19.

In the early-mid 2000s to 2010

Syria suffered from:

* drought (this has already been mentioned several times and is easy to look up) > lowered agricultural output > import costs

* steady exhaustion of its fossil fuel reserves > fill it in

* a very large refugee population, Palestinians, and new ones from Iraq (more than a million), others > unstable border with Turkey amongst other problems

* very high unemployment, about 25% or more, almost all young people (60% of the population was under 20)

* high inflation (see specialised articles)

Assad started out as a reformist but either could not (imho re. the grip of the old guard, instituted structure) or would not (imho there was much he did not understand) do much, except for some economic reforms in a liberalisation direction, opposed, btw by his FinMin

— > prices that rose out of sight speedily, for ex. rents tripled… The cost of basic food doubled…large chunks of the population fell into poverty (> moved to towns because of drought)

—> the flowering of the oligarch class that took control of certain circuits (ex. telecoms, luxury shops, banking) who also started to buy up state-run biz/land (they were already major land-owners)

A tinder box!

A ‘moderate oppostion’, existed, in the sense of pacifist, unarmed yet seeking structural political reform minded people, such as those who were heavily invested in the Damas Spring (2001.) Remember, Syria adopted a new Constitution in 2012, which scotched the monopoly (on paper) of the Baath Party.

The Syrian ‘opposition’ was, is, a bewildering mixed bag, ususally called 'moderates.'

Such as Kurds and Communists, who were/are not anti-Assad, just pro-dialogue. The Syrian National Council is Muslim Brotherhood imho (?) and has its seats in London etc, and swears to make peace with Israel.. and oppose Iran… Then there is the Committee for Dem. Change or whatever they are called in English, who screams for overthrowing Assad, in any way…imho nobody is certain about which 'moderates' are worthy (in function of different aims.)

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 4, 2016 11:22:41 AM | 71

Jack Smith | Oct 3, 2016 8:09:53 PM | 31

French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault has said that any state that opposes the resolution would be deemed complicit in war crimes.He told TV5 Monde television on Monday that he hoped to obtain results on the draft resolution this week.

So what if the French Foreign Minister deems anyone who opposes the resolution a war criminal, he knows that nobody is going to be prosecuted so he is just so much hot air.

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 4, 2016 12:15:00 PM | 72

cdrake @38 - the vid you linked to is very well done. Thanks for sharing. This is the kind of vid one can share with fence sitters w/o offending their nat'l security creds. Reposting link for convenience...

Syria Truth - Assad Vilification Agenda - Syria Invasion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV8wC74W66I

Posted by: h | Oct 4, 2016 12:24:08 PM | 73

Captain Cook

The white helmets already got their prize the other week for examplary conduct of propaganda and warfare in Syria by the lousy swedish alternative nobel peace prize called Livelihood Awards:

White Helmets among 'alternative Nobel prize' winners
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/09/white-helmets-alternative-nobel-prize-winners-160922082500686.html

Jesus, how could I forgot, the peace prize will perhaps go to almighty peace lovers at Nato?

Posted by: Rabidodos | Oct 4, 2016 12:49:26 PM | 74

Curtis66

"It's somewhat surprising to see the left leaning alternet opposing Obama/Clinton/Kerry efforts in Syria. At least some part of the Democrat anti-war people are still sticking to their guns. It's a shame so much of the media (incl Netflix) are in the tank for the BS. "

I agree. Its really sad to see how many democrats are calling for destroying Syria and Russia. It just goes to show you that its easy to brainwash people regardless of their political bend.

Posted by: Alaric | Oct 4, 2016 12:50:35 PM | 75

@69 Christ. They really want to piss off the bear or what?
Whats next, bombings in Dagestan?

The ante keeps rising..

Posted by: Lozion | Oct 4, 2016 1:03:30 PM | 76

One thing that puzzles me about this debacle is that both the US and the Russians are still talking about "moderate" rebels but it's not at all clear who they mean when they talk of these “moderates” Temporarily Sane at 19.

In the early-mid 2000s to > 2010, Syria suffered from:

—-drought (this has already been mentioned several times and is easy to look up) > lowered agricultural output > import costs

—steady exhaustion of its fossil fuel reserves > fill it in

—-a very large refugee population, Palestinians, new ones from Iraq (more than a million), others > unstable border with Turkey

— very high unemployment, about 25% or more, almost all young people (60% of the population was under 20)

— high inflation

—Assad started out as a reformist but either could not (because of the grip of the old guard, structure) or would not (imho much he did not understand) do much, except for some economic reforms in a liberalisation direction, opposed, btw by his FinMin

— > prices that rose out of sight speedily (for ex. rents tripled…) The cost of basic food doubled or more…large chunks of the population fell into poverty (and moved to towns because of drought)

—> the flowering of the oligarch class that took control of certain circuits (ex. telecoms, luxury shops, banking) who also started to buy up state-run biz/land (they were already major land-owners)

A tinder box! A ‘moderate oppostion’ existed, in the sense of pacifist, unarmed yet seeking structural political reform minded people, such as those who were heavily invested in the Damas Spring (2001.) Remember, Syria adopted a new Constitution in 2012, which scotched the monopoly (on paper) of the Baath.

The Syrian ‘opposition’ was, is, a bewildering mixed bag. Such as Kurds and Communists, who were/are not anti-Assad, just pro-dialogue. The Syrian National Council is Muslim Brotherhood and has its seats in London etc. (?), and swears to make peace with Israel.. and stand up to Iran… Then there is the Committee for Dem. Change or whatever they are called in English, who screams for overthrowing Assad at any cost, … hard to sort out…I'm not the person...

Some peaceful demonstrations certainly took place, whether the ‘regime’ attacked them Idk. This ‘opposition’ was hijacked by various internal and external forces (salafist - plus all we know about…)

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 4, 2016 1:06:10 PM | 77

Both the Jeffrey Sachs, short read and to the point, and Max Blumenthal, long read and well written, articles linked to above are good reads. Max rips the curtain off of the Syria Campaign pr/propaganda crap and Sachs makes it crystal clear Hillary is the hawk we should all be leary of...amen.

Now, onto the Druze articles...lots of good reading...thanks

Posted by: h | Oct 4, 2016 1:11:10 PM | 78

...
The ante keeps rising..
Posted by: Lozion | Oct 4, 2016 1:03:30 PM | 74

Considering how few threats the Russians have made since arriving in Syria, even dimwits like Brzezinski, and Yes Men like Kerry, O'Bomber and Ash Carter, would be green with envy that Russia's "widespread tectonic response" is far superior to any threat the Yankee spin tankers have ever dreamt up.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 4, 2016 1:40:41 PM | 79

Guess we are nearing. ...After Aleppo.
What will Empire do next?

As Syrian Army near Raqqa and Der Ezzor....Empire must act to
Maintain the soft partition.
Syria then increases contact to the point where somebody's boots
On the ground have to go in.
That is....if Russians do not shoot down US/Nato. .
Syria really does not have the resources to do so...unless Russia
Gives them capable S300 systems.

Russia gave North Vietnam SAMs. ..that worked to wear down Empire.
Americans may not be willing to go thru that again.
And yes....Americans have shocked moment as F 22s get knocked down
And lament as Israel did after vaunted Merkava fell in 2006
Lebanon.

Maybe history is like some Greek Tragedy

Posted by: Brad | Oct 4, 2016 1:45:55 PM | 80

re: the Blumenthal article in Alternet

in the comments someone posted a response to the article written by Sam Hasad, a prominent pro-intervention "activist". Not surprisingly, he cannot muster a single critical or counter-factual response to the article's information, but instead embarks on a long spew of insults which ends with a summation (Blumenthal is a "fascist") and a threat ("People need to treat them as they deserve to be treated."). The inability to defend your position when challenged is a common trait seen in the "Syrian revolution" activists and western diplomatic corps.

Posted by: jayc | Oct 4, 2016 1:54:07 PM | 81

I'm wondering who, if anyone, is really in charge in AmeriKKKa?
Considering that all the countries which have fought AmeriKKKa to a standstill in the past were of the pissy, little, variety so beloved as targets of US cowardice and cretinism, Russia (and any friends it can muster) is a whole new ball game...
Old Dogs? New Tricks?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 4, 2016 1:59:48 PM | 82

"Shame me once, shame on you;
Shame me twice, and I will pound your frickin' Drago ass at Sevastopol in 2017."

We are playing 2-dimensional checkers, while the Globalists play 5-dimensional Weiqi.

Posted by: chipnik | Oct 4, 2016 2:13:22 PM | 83

67

Hillary is the candidate of the War Machine. Donald is its Field Marshal.

As TheRealDonald noted many times, there is only the Globalist UniParty.
Vote Red or vote Blue, you are still voting for a $1T a year war machine.

Same goes for these oil wars, and a prurient flag-waving peanut gallery.

Posted by: chipnik | Oct 4, 2016 2:19:38 PM | 84

Hey chipnik

It is General Field Marshal Trump to you, peasant.

And isn't deplorable flag-waving peanut gallery good enough for you?

Steady as it goes.....grin!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 4, 2016 3:21:12 PM | 85

Here's the full video of the press conference of the U.S. Peace Council Representatives who have recently returned from Syria. It's full of excellent material. Please take the time to view it. You won't regret it...and be sure to pass it on...Americans need to hear Americans speak what is truly happening in Syria - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8JppJyVxYU

Here are two quotes that resonated for me from the panelists -

"The motive, in my opinion, of the U.S. war is to destroy an independent Arab secular state. It's the last Arab secular state standing and it wants a client regime like Libya, like Iraq, like a number of other countries."

"This is not a civil war in Syria. That's probably the first thing we heard and we heard it over and over and over again. It is not Pres Assad against his own people. It is Pres Assad and the Syrian people altogether, in unity, against outside forces, outside mercenary forces, terror organizations..."

Posted by: h | Oct 4, 2016 4:48:11 PM | 86

@65 GS @81 JC

From Max Blumenthal ...


Back in 2011, Avaaz introduced a public campaign for a no-fly zone in Libya and delivered a petition with 1,202,940 signatures to the UN supporting Western intervention. John Hilary, the executive director of War On Want, the U.K.’s leading anti-poverty and anti-war charity, warned at the time,

“Little do most of these generally well-meaning activists know, they are strengthening the hands of those western governments desperate to reassert their interests in north Africa… Clearly a no-fly zone makes foreign intervention sound rather humanitarian — putting the emphasis on stopping bombing, even though it could well lead to an escalation of violence.”

John Hilary’s dire warning was fulfilled after the NATO-enforced no-fly zone prompted the ouster of former President Moamar Qaddafi. Months later, Qaddafi was sexually assaulted and beaten to death in the road by a mob of fanatics. The Islamic State and an assortment of militias filled the void left in the Jamahiriya government’s wake. The political catastrophe should have been serious enough to call future interventions of this nature into question. Yet Libya’s legacy failed to deter Avaaz from introducing a new campaign for another no-fly zone; this time in Syria.


I hope that causes some of these folks to back-pedal on their support for Avaaz/The White Helmets. Not much hope for Amy Goldman, probably, but Medea Benjamin and Glenn Greenwald ought to distance themselves from their respective motherships on this one, or lose what credibility that remains to them.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 4, 2016 9:32:15 PM | 87

thanks to the many commenters who expanded upon the excellent original post. Speaking as someone who lived through WWII as well as every subsequent war my take, for what its worth, is that in matters that pertain to war and peace and to the U.S. pursuit of global hegemony, the truth is the opposite of whatever narrative our politicians and msm want us to believe. What's so useful and important about websites such as Moon of Alabama is that someone such as myself can obtain enough information here so as to turn educated hunches based upon personal experiences, knowledge and ones senses into substantiated and formidable positions.

Posted by: jacobo | Oct 4, 2016 11:46:58 PM | 88

242 pw4


The use of proxies has been used to confuse the public about what is really going on in Syria, but the facts are plain to see. Syria is not in the throes of a “civil war” as the media would have us believe. The country is being ripped apart by an American invasion, the same as Iraq was destroyed by an American invasion. The substitution of armed-proxies for US footsoldiers doesn’t change a thing. The fact is, the US is the main driver of the current policy. The jihadist invasion would not have taken place without a green light and material support from Washington.

I remember your forecast of a return to the draft ... maybe the US will have Saudi, Turkish and various GCC states got to a draft for Al-CIAduh? The trend definitely seems to be away from Americans doing more than pushing buttons, wjth the proxies doing the fighting and dying. Having your enemies (all states are the US' enemies, they finally picked that up from the Israelis) fighting on both sides of all your wars is a diabolic masterstroke, isn't it? No matter which one 'wins' they both lose.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 5, 2016 8:40:21 AM | 89

apologies for the double post...

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 5, 2016 12:54:04 PM | 90

@89

Sorry, forgot the link for the quote - Did I say that? State Department Official Admits Ties to Terrorist Groups.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 5, 2016 4:35:59 PM | 91

The comments to this entry are closed.

 

Site Meter