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October 01, 2016

Open Thread 2016-32

News & views ...

Posted by b on October 1, 2016 at 01:40 PM | Permalink

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Things just got a bit hot for the Saudi murderous coalition in Yemen. "Someone" gave the Houthis anti-ship missiles and it's been used against an Emirati warship that's imposing naval blockade on Yemen, off the coast of Bab Al-Mandeb. Kinda like the one that nearly sunk the Israeli Hanit warship off the coast of Lebanon in 2006.

If the Saudis and their tag-alongs are stupid enough to follow through on their bluff to arm their jihadi proxies in Syria, they should expect more advanced weapons appearing in Yemen!!!

https://twitter.com/IraqiSecurity/status/782295448585461760

Posted by: Zico | Oct 1, 2016 3:16:22 PM | 1

US backs India’s military strikes on Pakistan


The Obama administration has signaled its support for India’s “surgical” cross-border military strikes carried out Wednesday night in Pakistan-held Kashmir.

India’s attack was patently illegal and highly provocative. US strategic think tanks frequently refer to disputed Kashmir as the most dangerous “nuclear flashpoint” in the world. Yet American officials have studiously avoided making any criticism of India, a “global strategic partner” of US imperialism and pillar of its military-strategic offensive against China.

A chorus of former Obama and Bush administration officials now employed by various military-strategic think tanks are lauding the Indian action and even praising New Delhi for its “restraint,” even as the Hindu supremacist BJP government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi pushes South Asia closer to the precipice of all-out war.

Iran, Pakistan hold joint naval exercise in waters off Karachi coast


The 43rd flotilla of the Iranian Navy has participated in a joint relief and rescue drill with Pakistani naval forces in waters off the port city of Karachi.

Following necessary coordination among the Iranian commanders of the flotilla and Pakistani naval forces, the joint maritime drill began off the coast of Karachi on Saturday, with the main focus on naval rescue and relief operations.


What about the other members of the SCO? The USA seems to be raising the levels of conflict simultaneously all around the world. With the lame duck Nobel Peace Prize Laureate asleep at the wheel the neo-con Pentagon may well be on autopilot, heading for WW III.

The LD-NPPL-AATW is faking it. One eye closed, the other on the mirror. Gonna say he didn't know his 'legacy' was loaded.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 1, 2016 3:27:33 PM | 2

Full video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaMSb_7_3cM

It's such a spectacle to watch - very impressive fireworks!!! The Emirati officials said it was an "accident". I guess they'll be seeing more of thise if they don't get the f*ck out of Yemen.

Posted by: Zico | Oct 1, 2016 3:32:30 PM | 3

Gaza headed for 'environmental catastrophe'


Gaza City - Water may be a highly valued commodity the world over - but in al-Shati refugee camp north of Gaza City, it is like gold.

Along this small stretch of the Mediterranean coast, all it takes to work that out is turning on a tap: When it is there at all, the water is salty, or sometimes cloudy.

Nahed Radwan, who lives with her eight children and extended family in a pastel-painted house by the sea road, said her family normally gets water once a week for two days.

"The water we have, when it's on, it's not clean; it's undrinkable. It hurts the eyes because of the high salinity," Radwan, 34, told Al Jazeera.

Only an estimated 3 percent of Gaza's water is suitable for drinking. The Palestinian Water Authority and the United Nations have warned that its underground water aquifer - upon which the territory is almost entirely reliant, apart from a small amount of water imported from Israel - may be completely contaminated by the end of the year. Gaza's water contains a large concentration of chloride, while infiltration of untreated sewage has raised the levels of nitrates to two to eight times higher than the World Health Organization recommends.


The Americans in charge - we're all responsible, just asleep at the wheel ourselves - and all the Israelis - wide awake and cheering - should be in prison. Our US President and Congress have just signed off on a $38,000,000,000, ten-year Palestinian genocide fund. We can wring our hands and say - whatever it is we may say - but the fact of the matter is that it's our government funding the liquidation of Palestine and the Palestinians

Posted by: jfl | Oct 1, 2016 3:33:59 PM | 4

Can anybody explain the existence of YPG in Aleppo? I noticed a yellow area on a recent map at the North of Aleppo sandwiched between SAA and FSA - who's side are they on?

Posted by: Dingo | Oct 1, 2016 3:44:41 PM | 5

@3 zico

That 'UAE' ship looks/looked like the HSV-2 Swift, does/didn't it?

Pretty good shot by the Yemenis! Wonder where their missiles come from? Is this one of the same sort they've been shooting at the Saudis? I imagine it is.

Definitely points up the 'target' nature of surface warships ... like, say, aircraft carriers ... doesn't it?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 1, 2016 3:48:26 PM | 6

@1 zico 'If the Saudis and their tag-alongs are stupid enough to follow through on their bluff to arm their jihadi proxies in Syria, they should expect more advanced weapons appearing in Yemen!!!'

I'd always heard the 'stinger' manpads the US gave to al-CIAduh in Afghanistan to fight the Russians ended up in Iranian hands. Wonder if they'll be downing Saudi F-16s in Yemen soon? Those, or newer models?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 1, 2016 3:51:43 PM | 7

re 3. I notice the video doesn't include a hit.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 1, 2016 3:59:05 PM | 8

re 5

Can anybody explain the existence of YPG in Aleppo? I noticed a yellow area on a recent map at the North of Aleppo sandwiched between SAA and FSA - who's side are they on?
There's a Kurdish quarter in the north of Aleppo. They've been defending themselves, unaligned with either.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 1, 2016 4:03:58 PM | 9

jfl @ 6
That 'UAE' ship looks/looked like the HSV-2 Swift, does/didn't it?

Yes it is and I have to admit that it was a very beautiful ship they're using for their "humanitarian" ops. These Oil Sheikhs are way too retarded to know wtf they're doing in Yemen and the amount of sh*t they've gotten themselves into. They've been encouraged on by their Western "partners" just so they can sell them more overpriced weapons.

Their main aim for going to war against Yemenis doesn't make any sense. Aparently they're there fighting "Iranian influence" (whatever that means). Yes, they're fighting Iranian influence by slaughtering innocent Yemenis for no reason.

Frankly speaking, I'd be very surprised if these retarded Oil Sheikhs survive beyond this decade.

Posted by: Zico | Oct 1, 2016 4:05:42 PM | 10

@10 z 'Aparently they're there fighting "Iranian influence" (whatever that means).'

I think that means doing what the Saudis tell them to do.

'I'd be very surprised if these retarded Oil Sheikhs survive beyond this decade.'

From your lips to Allah's ears.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 1, 2016 4:16:33 PM | 11

@8 LG, 'I notice the video doesn't include a hit.'

What's that at 0:50 or so, chopped liver?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 1, 2016 4:20:13 PM | 12

From Charles Hugh Smith's website, Of Two Minds - When Knowledge is Almost Free, How Do We Create Value?:

http://www.oftwominds.com/blog.html

Posted by: euclidcreek | Oct 1, 2016 4:42:08 PM | 13

In other news, the "save Aleppo" propaganda's gone into overdrive. BBC and their assorted media houses have all got their marching orders to spew the usual nonsense. Good thing is, nobody gives a sh*t about them anymore. Years of one-sided BS about "moderate rebels" blah blah blah is finally wearing thin.

You know the rats are in real trouble when the msm starts talking about "humanitarian" intervention.. All I hear on the news are Russia this, Russia that, Assad this Assad that, backeries, last hospital here/there, white helmets etc etc.

Bottom line: taking back Aleppo will be the end of the fake revolution and the architects of this dirty war know it!!!

Posted by: Zico | Oct 1, 2016 4:44:47 PM | 14

re 10, and indeed 11

These Oil Sheikhs are way too retarded to know wtf they're doing in Yemen and the amount of sh*t they've gotten themselves into.
You guys evidently haven't understood. This is a war of Sunnis, of Wahhabi style, against the Shi'a, represented by the Houthis. In which the UAE participates, although not directly threatened.

There've been remarks by Saudi princes about how how they want Shi'a to disappear from the world, a direct threat of genocide. That is why the war in Yemen.

Why this powerful sentiment? It's quite simple. The population of the Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia is Shi'a mainly (not quite sure on the figures). It is also the only area of Saudi with oil. If the Shi'a rebel, it's all over for the revenues of Saudi princes.

A second case is Bahrain. Majority Shi'a population suppressed by Sunni dynasty. Bahraini oil in danger.

The GCC operates together, though no Shi'a in UAE. That's why Emiratis in Yemen.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 1, 2016 4:51:13 PM | 15

‘Leaked Kerry comments prove US involvement in Syrian crisis from onset’ RT,
1 Oct, 2016 14:59

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/361313-syria-kerry-leaked-tapes/

Who leaked them, and do they mean what Jamal Wakeem concludes?

Posted by: wendy davis | Oct 1, 2016 4:56:31 PM | 16

Zico @ 1:

' "Someone" gave the Houthis anti-ship missiles ...'

I've been seeing Internet news and rumours that hundreds of Saudi soldiers have been defecting to the Yemeni side. At the very least they've been going AWOL but one assumes they must be going somewhere to escape Saudi authorities. Defecting to the Yemenis seems the simplest explanation and could also explain how the Houthis have been able to acquire sophisticated weapons.

https://syrianfreepress.wordpress.com/2015/04/26/cem-45188/

http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940405000535

Posted by: Jen | Oct 1, 2016 5:18:33 PM | 17

Jen @ 16

But the GCC Sheikhs don't have/use that type of anti-ship weapons...

Posted by: Zico | Oct 1, 2016 5:22:11 PM | 18

http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13950710001061
Iran Unveils New Drone from RQ-170 Class
With Photo

Posted by: okie farmer | Oct 1, 2016 5:27:44 PM | 19

wendy davis @ 15

Quite interesting listening to the leaks. It shows a divided government with different factions working for the highest bidder. Also shows the US does not have much control over their Saudi/Turkish "allies"..

The Syrian 5-star opposition had hoped the Americans will invade Syria and get rid of Assad for them and parachute them into Damascus like the CIA did Hamid Karzai...It'll make for a lovely comedy script if it wasn't so tragic!!!

Posted by: Zico | Oct 1, 2016 5:31:38 PM | 20

john kerry
oirish man from killarney
john cohen kohn skull and bones jewish man from hobokum
speaks about the syriana.
oded yinon or israel not mentioned but illuminating

https://soundcloud.com/user-718942731/john-kerry-on-syria

Posted by: charlie drake | Oct 1, 2016 5:39:18 PM | 21

re 12

'What's that at 0:50 or so, chopped liver?'

A reconstruction on radar that the Houthis don't have? not film of arrival. We have to be strict here. I once had video of American troops blowing up a 12th century minaret in Iraq, but it was rejected because the minaret was not seen to fall in the time of the video.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 1, 2016 5:47:52 PM | 22

Laguerre @ 21

not film of arriva

You for real???

You expect to see Yemeni army/Houthis advertize the arrival of radars/weapons to the whole world??? wow!!!

Posted by: Zico | Oct 1, 2016 6:02:49 PM | 23

@ jfl | Oct 1, 2016 3:33:59 PM | 4

Palestinian president, Netanyahu shake hands at Peres funeral

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/palestinian-president-netanyahu-shake-hands-peres-funeral/

Shimon Peres: Israeli war criminal whose victims the West ignored

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=140282

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 1, 2016 6:10:37 PM | 24

re 22

You for real???
You expect to see Yemeni army/Houthis advertize the arrival of radars/weapons to the whole world??? wow!!!
You're getting ridiculous. What I'd expect of such a video is the video-camera-ed missile arriving until the last minute when it blows. Here the chance has been left that it missed.

It's already an important point that the Houthis have such missiles to fire. That was certainly the point of the video. The blockade was already ragged, and is likely to fall into ineffectivity.

Posted by: Laguerre | Oct 1, 2016 6:57:21 PM | 25

Jen | Oct 1, 2016 5:18:33 PM | 16
There is one country on the Arabian peninsula that is somewhat hostile to Saudia Arabia and has reasonably good relations with Iran, so I suspect they're quite happy to see Saudi Arabia bogged down in a Yemeni quagmire as no doubt are the Russians. It's one of two countries that have a land border with Yemen so, I'm guessing it wouldn't be hard to smuggle weapons across their shared border, i.e., as about as difficult as it is for al Nusrah or ISIS to smuggle weapons across Syria's border with Turkey. A friend of a friend works as a nursing practitioner in a military hospital in that country and all her patients have battlefield wounds even though that country is not at war internally or externally.

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 1, 2016 7:40:06 PM | 26

okie farmer@18 Hajizadeh said the IRGC named its version of the US drone RQ-170 - that was downed and remanufactured through reverse engineering four years ago. Hope the Iranians do the decent thing and pay the US copyright fees and acquire the proper manufacturing licenses from them... in 20 years time. In the meantime Hezbollah could do with some of those.

Posted by: harrylaw | Oct 1, 2016 7:51:52 PM | 27

Laguerre | Oct 1, 2016 6:57:21 PM | 24
My guess is that it was an Iranian knockoff of the C-802 that flies at 3-5 metres off the sea during the attack phase at mach 0.9 (~690 mph), so you might not see it given its speed and altitude.

When the missile is launched, the solid rocket propellant booster accelerates the speed of the missile to Mach 0.9 in a few seconds. After the booster burns out, it detaches from the missile body and the missile's turbojet engine starts.

This missile is semi-armoured piercing while the boat has an aluminium (alloy) hull and superstructure so the missile would punch through the skin like a hot knife through butter and explode inside the ship.
The missile uses a 165 kg semi-armor-piercing anti-personnel blast warhead which relies on the missile's kinetic energy to pierce the deck of a ship, penetrate into and explode in the ship's interior. The YJ-82 might have a higher single hit probability than the YJ-8/YJ-81..

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 1, 2016 7:58:00 PM | 28

jfl 2

they dont call india the 'unitedsnake of south asia' for nuthin...

http://www.countercurrents.org/miller120207.htm

Posted by: denk | Oct 1, 2016 8:33:04 PM | 29

Erdogan: EU visa-free travel for Turks necessary by end of month


Erdogan also noted that October would be a significant month in EU-Turkey relations as "it is necessary" for visa-free travel for Turks into the Schengen Area be enforced in this month.

I guess Erdogan has plans that require takfiri Turkmen in Europe by November?

Turkish troops will remain in Iraq, Syria for another year

Israel okays building of 300 settler units in West Bank

I guess that settler-occupation has caught on with Turkey in Syria just as it has caught on with Israel in Palestine?

Now if Erdogan can just get the EU to fund it, as Israel has the US ... wait! he already has: payments to keep refugees out of Europe.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 1, 2016 8:43:13 PM | 30

@21 LG 'not film of arrival'

You're right. The missile takes off into the dark, blackness, the explosion. What of the burning ship afterwards? The UAE claim it was an 'accident'? Sabotage? Then the missile stuff filmed/edited afterwards and grafted to the burning ship footage? Great cries of - success? - great the explosion. Certainly seems that something was expected to happen where the camera was pointed,

The simplest explanation seems to be what's claimed. We'll see.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 1, 2016 8:57:14 PM | 31

http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/10/showdown-in-aleppo.html

Patrick B is back. Good stuff.

Posted by: Rich | Oct 1, 2016 10:09:53 PM | 32

I haven't seen this talked about
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-09/30/c_135726351.htm
In a conversation between Kerry and Lavrov on the 30th, they discussed that on Wednesday, U.S. State Department Spokesman John Kirby said at a briefing that "if the civil war in Syria continued, extremists could attack Russian interests, and perhaps even Russian cities."

Suggesting "terrorist attacks on Russian cities do not only surpass diplomatic ethics but also raise questions about the inflammatory role of Washington," the RIA Novosti news agency quoted Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov as saying on Friday.

Ryabkov said this message was transmitted by Lavrov to Kerry in a phone conversation on Thursday which he said lasted one and a half hours.

Here is another link form the same source
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-10/01/c_135727858.htm
News Analysis: Russian military intervention spares Syria fragmentation

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 1, 2016 11:00:18 PM | 33

Thom Hartman asked all Democrats in his shows to vote for Hillary Clinton. Angela Davis a 60s Marxist/leftist said she will vote for Hillary Clinton. Bernie Sanders “I would suggest....let us elect Hillary Clinton as president.

The Democrats are bend on voting for Hillary Clinton at any price. First, NeoCon team 1: Dubya and Dick Cheney than NeoCon team 2: Obomo and Biden. In 2017 NeoCon team: 3a Hillary Clinton and Gary Johnson or NeoCon team 3b Trump and Gov. Mike Pence

to stop Donald Trump at any cost, and said that "too much is at stake to not vote."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017373701

Hill Not Jill! Sanders Warns Against 3rd Party Protest Vote. "Think that before you cast a protest vote, because Clinton or Trump will be president, think hard about it...

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/contenidos/2016/09/16/noticia_0018.html

Angela Davis Suggests Trump Threat Too Dire to Not Vote Clinton. The threat of a Donald Trump presidency is just too grave /I>

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Angela-Davis-Suggests-Trump-Threat-Too-Dire-to-Not-Vote-Clinton-20161001-0006.html

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 1, 2016 11:03:28 PM | 34

These guys don't miss a beat.

Wikipedeia article on HSV-2 Swift, former Emirati dredge. Links included on page.

Posted by: stumpy | Oct 1, 2016 11:17:20 PM | 35

Things just got a bit hot for the Saudi murderous coalition in Yemen. "Someone" gave the Houthis anti-ship missiles

en.alalam.ir/news/1747675
Al‑Alam News Network
Oct 11, 2015 - The Saudi warship was targeted and destroyed on Saturday in the ... destroy another Saudi vessel in the area with reports saying that the sunken ship ... and several Saudi military vehicles were destroyed in retaliatory attacks ...

www.presstv.com › Middle East › Yemen
Nov 7, 2015 - The file photo shows a warship belonging to the Royal Saudi Navy. ... and the allied army units have sunk another Saudi military vessel in the ... in the Saturday attack, adding that it was the fourth naval ship belonging to the ...

en.alalam.ir/news/1773661
Al‑Alam News Network
Dec 28, 2015 - In a retaliatory attack Yemeni Forces have targeted and destroyed a Saudi ... The sunken ship had repeatedly fired rockets at the residential ...

And an illustrated account

Those were smallish vessels operatic close to the coast, so the missiles could be rather unsophisticated (a lot of punch in old Soviet technologies, or North Korean). Under Saleh, Yemen was stocking missile weapons, and over the years the military collected quite an arsenal. And the former official Yemeni military cooperates with Huthis. Finally, the threat scenario for Yemen was always primarily the Wahhabi regime across the border, so the stocks are presumably in the quite secure underground tunnels. If anything, there was quite a gap in reports about the anti-ship attacks from Yemen, either "coalition" was more cautious or local stocks were depleted (I assume that the storage is dispersed, and they have to be moved very cautiously).

Judging by the number of victims, the war in Yemen has rather low intensity, so the ammo stocks from the time of President Saleh can last quite a while. There is also smuggling, but compared with the smuggling of food etc., smuggling of weapons is rather hard and there were no news of interceptions. I found one story about a truck with Omani license plates and some unspecified "weapons and explosives" that was intercepted in the territory controlled by Hadi/GCC. Oman is neutral and it is potentially friendly to Yemenis (the ruling dynasty and bulk of the population are not Sunni and they always distance themselves from Saudis and GCC), but nobody believes that there were meaningful supplies reaching the Houthis. Perhaps, with an eye for the future, smuggling routes are tested.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 1, 2016 11:19:58 PM | 36

I've tried to listen to and to understand myself the Kerry tape. It's hard to decipher in spots.

One spot that's pretty clear - yet a glaring omission from the 'reports' I've seen - is Kerry's open acknowledgement that the US has no basis for waging war in Syria against the government there, against Assad ...

Audio reveals what John Kerry told the Syrians behind closed doors


[0:34]

... well the problem is the Russians don’t care about international law, and [people ?] do. And we know now the basis ... our lawyers tell us ... unless we have a UN Security Council resolution ... [and] the Russians can veto force ... [?] ... or unless we are attacked ... [?] ... or unless we are invited in ... Russia was invited in by the legitimate regime ... [there is no basis for any US use of force in Syria.]


It seems to me that all the noise emanating from New York, Washington, Amy Goodman, London, Paris ... has as its object the obliteration of the fact that US bombing Syrian troops would be illegal. Would be and was, in fact, illegal - a war crime - when it occurred on 17 September 2016.

That fact needs to be broadcast as widely and as loudly as possible. The UNSC would be a good place to start.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 2, 2016 1:38:41 AM | 37

@36

The above tape comprises less than 4 minutes of a reputed 40 minute tape. The NYTimes is the most nearly complete summary of those less than 4 minutes ... and it omits the quote above, along with the other 36+ minutes.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 2, 2016 1:44:40 AM | 38

@27 GS

Your description of the action of the missile that 'might have' been used by the Yemenis against the UAE vessel certainly fits the bill of specifications produced by the video. The explosion was tremendous and the ensuing fire was very intense. I wonder what the missile could have hit inside the vessel to produce such a fire/explosion?

The vessel sank? Sure looks to be fully engulfed in flames in the video. But ...

Saudi-led forces rescue passengers from vessel off Yemen: SPA


A Saudi-led force in Yemen said it rescued passengers on Saturday from a vessel being used by the United Arab Emirates military that was attacked by Houthi fighters in a strategic Red Sea shipping lane.

"The coalition rescued civilians from a vessel targeted by Houthi militias ... that was transferring medical aid to the city of Aden and evacuating wounded civilians for treatment," the coalition said in a statement on Saudi state news agency SPA.


Hard to believe people survived the inferno pictured in the video. Or that 'medical supplies' are so flammable.

UAE military vessel damaged in ‘incident’ off coast of Yemen


DOHA:
A United Arab Emirates military vessel was damaged in a strategic Red Sea shipping lane off the coast of Yemen on Saturday but there were no injuries to its crew, the UAE military said.

Again, hard to believe.

Yemen: Houthis claim attack on UAE military vessel


The UAE military said on Saturday a boat under its command was involved in an "incident" in the Bab al-Mandeb Strait. It said there were no casualties.

"Rockets targeted an Emirati warship as it approached the coast of Mokha" on the Red Sea, Yemen's Houthi fighters said in a statement on their sabanews.net website.

"It was completely destroyed," said the Iran-allied Houthis.

A video posted on social media, purporting to be a footage of the incident, showed a vessel being targeted at night and later was on fire. Al Jazeera could not independently confirm the authenticity of the video.


Somebody's lyin.

Houthis Claim to Shoot Down a UAE Navy Vessel With a Missile Near Yemen


"Rockets targeted an Emirati warship as it approached the coast of Mokha," said the Houthi fighters in a statement on their website. "It was completely destroyed."

The video posted on social media purports to confirm this attack with the footage appearing severe, but Sputnik is unable to independently confirm the authenticity of the video that alleges to be the strike.
US Democratic presidential hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders leave the stage during a break in the Democratic Presidential Debate hosted by ABC News at Saint Anselm College in Manchester, New Hampshire, on December 19, 2015
© AFP 2016/ JEWEL SAMAD
Leaked Audio Exposes Hillary Mocking Bernie’s Supporters in Front of Big Donors

The Emirati military released a vague statement that did not identify whether the vessel had been damaged in an attack, but merely that it had fallen under some sort of threat and that an investigation is underway.


Even Sputnik is skeptical.


Posted by: jfl | Oct 2, 2016 2:09:38 AM | 39

Louder, clearer leaked New York Times audio John Kerry - in YouTube

US Sec of State John Kerry - Leaked audio on Syria - INCREASED VOLUME LEVEL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3grHmI44mg

Complete News reports from 21st Century Wire.

Diplomatic Frauds: Kerry, Power, Kirby Lying and Shilling for ‘Body Bags’ and War in Syria

http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/10/01/diplomatic-frauds-kerry-power-kirby-lying-and-shilling-for-body-bags-and-war-in-syria/

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 2, 2016 2:46:23 AM | 40

Stupid Bernie sanders!

Parental Basement Dwellers: Hillary Clinton Criticizes Bernie Sanders Voters for Having ‘Bought into False Promise’
http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/10/01/parental-basement-dwellers-hillary-clinton-criticizes-bernie-sanders-voters-for-having-bought-into-false-promise/

Posted by: Level3 | Oct 2, 2016 2:48:57 AM | 41

Further the recoding is complete and no snipping, 37:11 minutes long you can either listen in YouTube or 21st century wire. I prefer 21st Century Wire with added comments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3grHmI44mg

http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/10/01/diplomatic-frauds-kerry-power-kirby-lying-and-shilling-for-body-bags-and-war-in-syria/

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 2, 2016 2:56:55 AM | 42

JFL 38

Arab coalition says targets Houthi forces after ship attack
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-emirates-security-yemen-boats-idUSKCN122067
Arab coalition forces have launched operations against militia boats of Yemen's Houthi group that struck a civilian logistics ship on a humanitarian voyage in a strategic Red Sea shipping lane, the Saudi-led alliance said.
The vessel, an Australian-built high speed logistics catamaran under lease to the United Arab Emirates military, was attacked by Houthi fighters near the Bab al-Mandab strait off Yemen's southern coast on Saturday. The coalition rescued its civilian passengers. No crew were hurt....
...The coalition said the incident showed that Houthi tactics involved what it called "terrorist attacks" against civilian international navigation in the waterway...


Posted by: Peter AU | Oct 2, 2016 3:12:11 AM | 43

Further, RT Emily Siu reporting the leaked NYT audio 3.56minutes

Kerry: ‘I argued for use of force in Syria, and I’ve lost the argument’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBw9t3Mpk38

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 2, 2016 3:59:41 AM | 45

@42 P AU

I cannot imagine that blazing inferno in the video with no one sustaining injuries. Someone is lying here. Is the ship still afloat? If so has no one a camera? Seems that either that video was a complete fraud or the US/Saudi/UAE response is.


In a statement late on Saturday, the coalition said the vessel belonged to the UAE Marine Dredging Company "on its usual route to and from Aden to transfer relief and medical aid and evacuate wounded civilians to complete their treatment outside Yemen."

"Coalition air and naval forces were targeting Houthi militia boats involved in the attack," it said.


So Reuters is just the publicity agent for the 'coalition'? Just adding fluff background to 'coalition' news releases? It's hard to believe that no definitive news whatsoever has escaped the Bab al-Mandab strait.

The report at AMN seemed to pieced together from comments at MoA.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 2, 2016 5:37:49 AM | 47

JFL 46
Reading between the lines in MSM it seems the video of the strike available on the net is genuine. Land to sea missile, at least two stage, with small boats watching the strike.
Going by some of Yemen's successes, advanced targeting system on old missiles or up to date missiles?
Russia has taken up the challenge of full spectrum warfare.

Posted by: Peter AU | Oct 2, 2016 6:45:19 AM | 48

From Crimea to Debaltseve to Syria to Yemen, when no ones looking, Putin's Russia kicks Uncle Sam in the goolies and says - nah, wasn't me.

Posted by: Peter AU | Oct 2, 2016 6:52:33 AM | 49

Funny watching US official perform acrobatics with the truth at a press meeting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYZwgc6GwZ4

I think the guy doesn't even believe in his own BS anymore. Apparently, as per the US government thinking, the Syrian government is not supposed to reclaim their own territory. The sheer stupidy and hubris of this line of thinking is just breathtaking.


I tip my hats off to this Kirby guy. If I was his wife or child, I'd be very ashamed to tell my friends what he does for a living. Speaking the truth is clearly not one of his skills.

Posted by: Zico | Oct 2, 2016 8:29:02 AM | 50

4

"Gaza never existed, the Palestinian people are cockroaches, and Jerusalem has always been the capital of the Jewish State of Pan-Zion Israel, a territory granted to the Exceptional Chosen People with More Nobel Peace Prizes Than Any Other Race (sic), not by the perfidious Pommies and their inferior White Race ilk, but by a wizened old Yoda named Yahwa, more than 2000 years ago."

"Desert lands of Isreal this will be.
Godless lawless occupiers you all are.
Now a black coffee and a dump I need."

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Oct 2, 2016 8:36:19 AM | 51

Here's a good story;The 2 guys who picked up the suitcase in NYC and discarded the pressure cooker bomb were Egypt Air security guys.WTF?They are now back in Egypt.(a wapo account of a NYTs story)
And the NY lying times says they have stolen? tax reports intimating Trump hasn't paid taxes for years.
The monsters never sleep.

Posted by: dahoit | Oct 2, 2016 9:14:22 AM | 52

jfl | Oct 2, 2016 5:37:49 AM | 46

The report at AMN seemed to pieced together from comments at MoA.

As the originator of the suggestion that it was a C-802, I doubt it as their correspondent is reporting from Sana'a where he would have ready access to government spokesmen. On the whole, I've found AMN truthful except they're given to outbursts of hyperbole.

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 2, 2016 9:28:10 AM | 53

Who leaked them, and do they mean what Jamal Wakeem concludes? (Kerry audio tape) Wendy at 15. See also jfl 36.

I think the article mis-represents what Kerry is doing here.

He is facing the Syrian ‘moderate’ opposition, i.e. the whole discussion takes place under the assumption that there are 4 parties involved: good Syrians, Daesh / Nusra / ISIS (called as such), the USA and Russia. The discussion thus is confused in spots.

The Syrians press him for explanations of what happened between Russia-US, and he details the events as they are publically known, putting some little edges of blame on Russia.

he stresses various points (my paraphrase), a selection:

(Asked for more weapons) - Doesn’t help, leads to escalation from Saudi, Russia, etc. and “you are being destroyed” and says he wanted to take strong stand from the start against Assad (he is just reassuring these ppl, = my past intents did not materialise…)

(Asked to stop Russian air strikes on civis.) He asks for videos of planes, documentation, that would be very useful, and says nothing more.

(Asked about doing something about the bombed convoy) Asks an aide what is up with that? (no real response to that qu.) Says the UN is contemplating opening up a real investigation, and says nothing more.

(Syrian man becomes frustrated and says: We need more action from the US, Russia is aligned with the regime, there has to be a balance, we need intervention) Kerry explains the legal obstacles in some detail: We need a UNSC resolution which will be blocked, or we need to be invited in, which we are not. The Russians only let us fly planes because we are after ISIS “so they let us.” We don’t have what we had in Kosovo. Our legal team has not gone to Right to Protect. So it is complicated. How many wars have we been fighting? (gives list) We have been fighting in the region for 14 years. And Americans don’t believe we should send US soldiers to die in another country. Congress won’t vote to do it. You can be mad at us. We are fighting to help Syrians fight for their own country and we have spent a lot of money, effort. Russia came in…we don’t behave like Russia it is just a different standard …We have declared Nusra a terrorist org. Hezb. is focussed on support of Assad and they are not fighting Israel or us…

(aide explains) Russia came in to beat Daesh…we thought Assad would negotiate but then came Russia…political solution where the opposition is part of the Gvmt. is the best. (Explains how to run an election), why can’t you do that, with International ‘help’ Democracy has some virtues!! (The moderates argue against this, it won’t work, ppl are afraid and will be forced to vote for Assad) So you think the only solution is to have someone get rid of Assad? - the woman answers Yes.

—-I’ll leave it there (the first half). Kerry is ‘making nice’ but telling them it is no go.

https://soundcloud.com/user-718942731/john-kerry-on-syria

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 2, 2016 10:32:58 AM | 54

Proving the MSM are prevaricators for the elites, CNN creates plausible deniability for Der Trump:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/01/politics/donald-trump-taxes-report-hillary-clinton/index.html

The trouble is, -$918,000,000 in losses over 20 years only offsets $45,900,000 a year in net profits, so either Der Trump is using serial bankruptcy fraud to avoid paying Federal and State income taxes, or else he is making less than most Panda Express franchises, and not a billionaire, but a buffoon. Actually, not just a buffoon, but a buffoon bunko artist.

Meanwhile Clinton steams ahead in a vaporous cloud of totally fake solidarity with women, students and people of color. She was born Republican, grew up in an all-white Republican suburb, went to an all-white high school and private college, and came out for all-white Goldwater when she graduated. She is pure Republican, in thrall to the NYC financial mob that first paid for her NY Senate seat.

But that would, you know, be more information than 'informed' voters could handle.

Vote Red or vote Blue, The Chosen of WADC-NOVA will still demand $4,000,000,000,000 a year tithe from you, then another $3,800,000,000 annual tithe to The Chosen of Zion, ..not counting the interest-only bleedoff for $20T debts, transferred onto your SS/MC Trust Fund, as the T-bill buyer of last resort.

Stick a fork in it, America is done.

Posted by: chipnik | Oct 2, 2016 10:55:35 AM | 55

@53 The woman in question is named Marcell Shehwaro. An idealist. She presumably would like to see the US eradicate Assad, Russia, the SAA and the Ba'ath Party. After that the US could fix the Rojava problem and get rid of ISIS. Then Syrians will finally feel free to vote for somebody nice and moderate. Shouldn't take long.

Posted by: dh | Oct 2, 2016 11:15:30 AM | 56

Zico 1. If the Houthis had a spokesperson, they could claim that they're taking their weapons from the Saudis the same way we were told the Libyans took their weapons from the Libyan military and the same story for the Syrian rebels ... until the truth gradually got out that US, Saudis, Qataris, Turks, etc were supplying these forces. The claim so far has been that Iran is supplying the Houthis but there has been no proof and how could the weapons get through Saudi Arabia or the blockade?
These stories always fly in the face of logic.

Posted by: Curtis | Oct 2, 2016 12:40:22 PM | 57

ghostship 25. Good call. It's the same country where the negotiations of the Iran deal took place. It's status rarely gets a mention; they must be good at staying below the radar.

Posted by: Curtis | Oct 2, 2016 12:47:01 PM | 58

jul @36: US bombing Syrian troops would be illegal.

It is clear to any observer that in itself, legality does not guide US actions. More precisely, in "international law" the most salient question is: can we get away with it? Enthusiast of "humane intervention" can point out to the intervention in Libya, where legal consequences were nil and immediate goal, the removal of the government, achieved. But in Syria the West and the Gulfies cannot put together regime changing effort that would (a) achieve the purpose, and (b) lead to losses sufficiently small that they could form "getting away with it".

"Our lawyers" tell Donald Trump not to reveal his tax return. "Moral high ground" would be conquered, but the losses would be larger. Same with the legal advise to US government.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 2, 2016 1:22:15 PM | 59

@2 jfl

It seems that the Indian 'surgical strikes' are being willfully ignored by almost everyone. Here's M K Bradrakumar's take: http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2016/10/02/indias-surgical-strikes-remain-an-enigma/

Posted by: kafkananda | Oct 2, 2016 1:47:00 PM | 60

The White Helmets. Netflix

https://www.netflix.com/title/80101827

First to promotes Netflix was CodePink - Medea Benjamin, than Democracy Now - Amy Goodman and finally The Intercept - Glenn Greenwald (Pierre Omidyar ) who next? TRNN almost there but still won't take the bite on the White Helmets's con games..

http://www.codepink.org/tonight_white_helmets_of_syria
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/9/22/headlines/syrian_white_helmets_others_win_2016_right_livelihood_awards
https://theintercept.com/

Sad, many political activists are on the path to self destructions and democrats-henchman. Can you trust alternative media? So far MoA is still a viable alternative site.

Thank you b...

Posted by: Jack Smith | Oct 2, 2016 2:43:50 PM | 61

Ghostship @25

Are you supplying Houthis? (I mean, what does a ghost ship do for living. :-) ) There is a very ancient division between southern Arabs and those from Hijaz, Nejd etc, and it never vanished. Outside Arabian peninsula, clans still trace their origin to the south or north. Oman and Yemen are the two south Arabian states, neither one is friendly with the Saudis. Currently Oman is studiously neutral, and Kuwait, I think it is neutral too, and so is Pakistan. Interesting that I read that KSA has Bangladeshi mercenaries. In any case, the only described case of intercepted weapon going to Houthis was a truck with Omani plates, so Oman could support Houthis secretly (not that even Oman authorities know everything what is going on in its deserts).

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Oct 2, 2016 2:49:38 PM | 62

some positive vibes, after less than 50 % showed up to Orban's referendum

https://bokehversions.bandcamp.com/

Posted by: Mina | Oct 2, 2016 3:49:37 PM | 63

@ 60

Sorry, Ambassador Bhadrakumar!

Posted by: kafkananda | Oct 2, 2016 4:27:34 PM | 64

@61 Add Thisishell.com to the growing list. I also seen so-called Marxist's cheer leading events in Syria, Libya and Ukraine. Absolutely despicable or Metal Gear persona management is in full swing.

So glad we averted another internet doomsday though and had a chance to forget about it's history of corporate graft.

Posted by: Shadow Nine | Oct 2, 2016 4:48:59 PM | 65

re: the "so-called marxists"

Proyect posts here occasionally. I find serious problems in his analysis and similar work over at the Pulse website. They believe Syria (and Libya before it) is enjoying a progressive workers revolution. Their analysis insists on the following: the original protests were absolutely peaceful and violently attacked by Assad regime; the people had no choice but take up arms as Assad rounded up and killed tens of thousands of peaceful demonstrators; the idea that outside forces were financing and supplying fighters to jihadist groups is largely "conspiratorial" thinking; the White Helmets are heroes; the Ghouta chemical attacks were carried out by the regime; the jihadists got involved only after the Ghouta attack; Obama should have followed through on regime-change, but it is untrue the Americans have ever truly desired regime-change; if regime-change had occurred, the jihadists would not have taken over; Assad and the jihadists work together; the majority of refugees will never return if Assad remains; armed struggle is the only viable option.

Robin Kassan-Yassib has some worthwhile ideas, but is way off the mark on some larger concepts. Here, for example, from 2011, an analysis of the NATO intervention in Libya which in retrospect is wrong on most points:
https://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/libya-reflections/

Posted by: jayc | Oct 2, 2016 7:15:00 PM | 66

@59, Pity Berman, in "international law" the most salient question is: can we get away with it?'

Spoken with a cynicism bred in the bone. A pretty accurate estimate of the US' appraisal though, with some aloof, "exceptional" bits on top.

Aggression is against international law, and unless and until that is recognized the USA will extend its run of aggressions. The Nobel Peace Prize Laureate/Clinton combine have taken it to the bank. Russia has been pushing the rule of law line since her involvement in Syria, at least. You might say that being among the "unexceptional" nurtures her belief in the rule of law, and I'd agree. There's nothing like realizing one's unexceptional status to breed a little humility and humanity. It does seem true that the route to humility for the US - for all of us? - will pass through defeat.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 2, 2016 7:22:05 PM | 67

@60, kafkananda

Seems Bhadrakumar is sorry that the strikes have fallen to Pakistan to describe. India seems too close to the US and its conception of international law, as defined by Piotr Berman, above. Wonder what Tulsi Gabbard knows? and when did she know it? What are the odds of India/Pakistan straightening this out between them?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 2, 2016 7:40:55 PM | 68

@66 Thanks.

https://youtu.be/-BiLCJxpqi4

Posted by: Shadow Nine | Oct 2, 2016 7:59:29 PM | 69

@54 Noirette

Thanks for the summary/commentary. I haven't finishes listening yet, about 18 minutes of 37. 'A Syrian man' seems to be a leader of the Syrian Civil Defense aka The White Helmets, no?

This is what Kerry's been doing. Meanwhile, there's what Carter, McCain, and the good ole boys have been doing ...

Posted by: jfl | Oct 2, 2016 8:18:01 PM | 70

I just learned the Colombian peace treaty was rejected. What a fucked up world we live in. The Uribes always win. The brainless have the majority. Sad, very sad.

Posted by: Pnyx | Oct 2, 2016 8:33:54 PM | 71

rajiv ghandi got bumped off cuz he refused to grant landing rights to murkkan bombers , he'd turn in his grave seeing what modi is doing today.

https://wideawakegentile.wordpress.com/2013/11/22/the-jain-commission-report/

Posted by: denk | Oct 3, 2016 1:27:43 AM | 72

nts
*..... If anyone actually votes for either of these two clowns, then America you get what you deserve....*

what about us, the rest of the world, we damn well dont deserve another 8 yrs of saturation bombing and bullshit. !
the sheeples were so crazy about their dear leaders that they usually gave them the max two terms. they'd most likely give them a third or more if given the chance !

Posted by: denk | Oct 3, 2016 3:23:39 AM | 73

AMN reports that that fat Saudi cleric Abdallah Muhammad al Muhaysini is endorsing the "White Helmets" as mujahideen

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/video-al-nusra-shariah-spokesperson-endorses-white-helmets-as-mujahideen/

Posted by: Ghostship | Oct 3, 2016 5:51:12 AM | 74

Do the Philippines deserve Duterte? He's ready, willing, and able, he says, to be the next Hitler. He modestly set his sights on a death toll of three million, well under the German fascists numbers. So I guess he'll be lauded as some sort of anti-imperialist, as opposed to be condemned as a brutal, lawless thug.

Do we really deserve The Duckhead, and his program of "One God, One Nation, One Leader"?

Losing a billion dollars and avoiding taxes for twenty years doesn't seem that smart to me. You don't have to be smart to lose money. It would seem to undercut the "clever businessman" myth that is the basis of his presidential ambitions.

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 3, 2016 7:43:00 AM | 75

Michael Hudson reviews a book by James Galbraith, Welcome to the Poisoned Chalice


The euro’s creation can best be viewed as a legalistic coup d’état to replace national parliaments with a coterie of financial managers acting on behalf of creditors, drawn largely from the ranks of investment bankers. Tax policy, regulatory and pension policies are assigned to these unelected central planners. Empowered to override sovereign self-determination and national referendums on economic and social policy, their policy prescription is to impose austerity and force privatization selloffs that are basically foreclosures on indebted economies. Galbraith rightly calls this financial colonialism.

The asset grab promoted by the IMF and ECB is incompatible with reviving Greece or other southern European economies (not to speak of the Baltics and Ukraine). The theory is unchanged from that imposed on Germany after World War I – the theories of Jacques Rueff, Bertil Ohlin and the Austrians, controverted by Keynes, Harold Moulton and others at the time. [1] Their victorious role in this debate has been expurgated from today’s public discourse and even from academia. What passes for economic orthodoxy today is an unreformed (and incorrigible) austerity economics of the 1920s, pretending that an economy’s debts can all be paid simply by lowering wage levels, taxing consumers more, making workers (and ultimately, businesses and government) poorer, and selling off the public domain (mainly to foreigners from the creditor nations).

At first glance the repeated “failure” of austerity prescriptions to “help economies recover” seems to be insanity – defined as doing the same thing again and again, hoping that the result may be different. But what if the financial planners are not insane? What if they simply seek professional success by rationalizing politics favored by the vested interests that employ them, headed by the IMF, central bankers and the policy think tanks and business schools they sponsor? The effects of pro-creditor policies have become so constant over so many decades that it now must be seen as deliberate, not a mistake that can be fixed by pointing out a more realistic body of economics (which already was available in the 1920s).

Any sovereign nation has the right to avoid being impoverished by creditors who have lent sums far in excess of the amount that can be paid without being forced to engage in privatization selloffs at distress prices. Such demands are akin to military attack, having a similar objective: seizure of the indebted economy’s land, natural resources and public infrastructure, and control over its government.

These demands are at odds with parliamentary democracy and national self-determination. Yet they are written into the way the eurozone is constructed. That is why withdrawal from the current financial regime is a precondition for recovery of economic sovereignty. It must start with control over the money supply and the tax system, followed by control over public infrastructure and the pricing of its services.

The gauntlet has been thrown down, posing a question today much like that of the 1930s: Will the alternative to austerity, debt deflation and the resulting economic breakdown be resolved by a pro-labor socialist alternative, or will it lead to a victory by anti-European right-wing parties?

[1] My book Trade, Development and Foreign Debt (2002) reviews the German reparations debate over “capital transfers” with regard to how austerity actually reduces the ability to pay.


This EU-disease is essentially the same that is attempting to spread via the US' TTP, TTIP, and TISA. The recognition of finance as the de jure supra-governmental power, and the en-serfment of us all.

There really is a very acute need for all of us, the world over, to assert our sovereign power, precedent to government, certainly to finance, and to reclaim a spot for ourselves, for humanity, indeed for all life on earth, in the sun.

Posted by: jfl | Oct 3, 2016 7:55:37 AM | 76

@74 Noirette

I finished listening to and transcribing - such as I can - the tape of Kerry et al. and the Syrian 'opposition'. It seems, as you say, to be Kerry selling a negotiated end to the fighting.

But who's he selling? The Syrians present aren't buying. Who taped and 'leaked' this tape?

- the 'Syrian opposition' ... to discredit Kerry, who is portrayed as insufficiently bellicose?
- Kerry's camp ... to show what a peace-loving guy Kerry is and how bellicose is everyone else?
- a third possibility - a DoD mole made the tape and leaked it to show how insufficiently bellicose Kerry is, and how much more 'manly' and in tune with the Syrian opposition the DoD is - who've bombed the SAA army at least twice recently - and how right they are, and how deservedly appreciated by the opposition?

The Syrians are definitely bellicose. And the White Helmets and b's SAM surgeons seem well represented among them.

I think 2 or 3. I could argue for the 'success' of either one ...

Posted by: jfl | Oct 3, 2016 10:58:49 AM | 77

@77++

... based upon this longer version. The NYTimes chopped it all up and presented it in a fashion that left Kerry definitely seeming insufficiently bellicose, and I imagine that the people who are aware of the tape at all in the US - and it doesn't matter elsewhere, it's for a domestic audience, according to me - probably got the NYTimes version, or their excerpted and rearranged version further excerpted and rearranged on TV.

A lot of work for not much to show for it. The only thing I take away is that the US administration knows that attacking Assad is a war crime. They'll apply Piotr's rule : do they think they can get away with it? And it won't be Kerry, the department store window mannequin or General Dunford who makes that decision it will be ... who? who? whoooooo?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 3, 2016 11:07:34 AM | 78

29

india itself is no slouch when it comes to cia style 'wet jobs'.
for example, raw partnered cia to wipe out the royal family of nepal in 2001 cuz king birendra was friendly to china. the same reason cia bumped off rajiv ghandi in later yr.

india even has its own version of a 'five year plan' to take out seven countries.
http://www.countercurrents.org/khan131007.htm

they dont call india the 'unitedsnake of south asia' for nuthin u know !

Posted by: denk | Oct 3, 2016 12:09:24 PM | 79

dh at 56, thx, see also jfl, I could identify only one speaker, Kerry. Exactly. One of the other speakers was in color-revolution-loony range and was it sounded like expecting some very high up Gvmt Post right quick, which presumably one arranges through twitter.

Jack Smith, The white helmets are terrorists of a new brand. Amy Goodman is a limited-hang-out piece of work. (imho.)

jayc at 66. The narrative you describe (Syria) is also espoused by many left-Greens. In Europe, until some years ago, some (most?) Green parties were further left than any other (besides fringe, e.g. communists.) In Switzerland (as an example) the strong left quality caused the very popular Green Party to split in two - the Greens and the Liberal Greens (libéral meaning the exact opposite of the US meaning). Today, on foreign affairs such as Syria the Liberal Greens are better! (e.g. “Assad is not the enemy...”)

This is worth a watch. Bashar Ja’afari interview NY 24 sept. Eng.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNofXFur-Kw

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 3, 2016 3:29:32 PM | 80

Laguerre et. al re: Yemeni C-802 strike

A continuous video from launch to strike may have been impossible/useless. If a ship was 20km offshore (I have no idea), it would have taken 70+ seconds for the missile flight.

From IHS Jane's 360:

IHS Markit's Automatic Identification System (AIS) track for Swift showed that it was in the international shipping lane near Mocha (approximately 20-25 km from the Yemeni coast) when contact was lost at 00:28 GMT on 1 October.

Even during clear conditions during the daytime, you wouldn't have been able to see the missile from the launch site after the first ten seconds. The actual strike could have been a speck on the horizon. There is no reason the launch site would need to be able to see the ship visually either at launch or for the strike. In fact, with a range of over 100km (presuming an actual C-802) the Houthis wouldn't have had to be anywhere on the coast near Mocha to have launched the missile.

Whether the Yemenis have any kind of radar or not is immaterial. The cruise missile (presuming some old C-802 variant) has inertial navigation enroute. You can punch in the ship's coordinates on the launch console and fire it, presuming you had spotter ships somewhere in the vicinity to fix the target ship's location accurately. This could have been done with the proper naval targeting radar alone if the Houthis have one and know how to use it, but they would probably want to have had spotter ships near the Swift anyway.

The C-802's own on-board radar takes over a few kilometers out for terminal guidance to the target. The HSV-2 wouldn't have had any substantial anti-missile defenses. Maybe some kind of chaff or basic jamming, but that's about it. The Chinese C-802 terminal guidance radar was/is pretty jam-resistant - you had to count on actually shooting them down before they hit you. More modern versions of the C-802 also have terminal visual guidance via video, so you don't even have to rely on the on-board radar. Modern versions also have laser homing, so the target can be designated from nearby ships or aircraft. I doubt the Houthis have the more modern versions if they were from old Yemeni naval defense stocks, but they could have smuggled in something newer.

To your point, Leguarre - there's no way to be sure the Houthis 1) launched a C-802 at all that night, 2) launched it and the HSV-2 was the intended target, or 3) the ship's explosion was caused by that particular missile. All of them are possible and the Houthis are suspected of having grabbed much of the mobile Yemeni coastal defense stuff. There are other smaller anti-ship missiles they could have fired at the HSV-2, so the apparent C-802 launch footage could have just been spliced in at the beginning. The HSV-2 wasn't intended for combat - it is (or was) a glorified ferry. So while the C-802 angle is interesting, it doesn't necessarily have to explain how the Houthis hit the HSV-2 in this case. Possible? Sure.

The 'burning ship' segment of the longer version of that video appears to be the HSV-2 because of its distinctive wrap-around windows at the front of the ship. However the ship was hit/exploded/caught fire, it does seem to be a HSV-2. It seemed to be sitting lower in the water than the old PR pictures of it when it was new, so fully-loaded vs. empty? I'll need a navy guy's opinion here. There are three other Incat-built catamarans similar in design to the HSV-2 afloat today, and the UAE also leases out JHSV-1 (Swift-1). Incat also makes commercial catamaran ferries that look like the HSV-2.

The Qatari monarchy is unlikely to volunteer any bad news about this ship. Nobody really knows if it was actually sunk or just (very heavily) damaged. Incat, themselves, say they don't know anything besides what they read on the internet! The ship's owner is a priately-held U.S. company: Sealift, Inc.

Last piece of scuttlebut from a MSTSMSC Facebook post:

According to the ship builder's (Incat) site, the ex-Swift is being operated by the UAE's National Marine Dredging Company, probably as a shuttle for workmen or UAE military personnel to the new base in Eritrea. Since the UAE military is shored up by a great deal of American military contractors, the chance for American casualties is possible.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Oct 3, 2016 4:29:17 PM | 81

@80 Noirette

Another thing that stood out to me was that Kerry's line, "Assad's scared of an election", seems very much to apply to the minority opposition he's talking to, much more than to the majority of Syrians who just want their country back and to live in peace.

The US has been using them, the 'opposition', completely, in pursuit of its 'geopolitical' goals, and now Kerry is delivering the news that their 'Kurdish' moment of betrayal has come, and, of course, they don't like it.

In fact it's not possible to tell if the people he's talking to are bona fide 'Syrian opposition' or al-CIAduh. The woman maybe, but the guy who speaks only in Arabic sounds like a merc ... no invasion/occupation necessary, just stop them bombing us and it'll be continuing paydays as far as the eye can see.

As well, that's just Kerry's message ... complaining about the 'thousands' of American dead in the face of half a million Syrians ... the DoD/CIA seem ready to pursue DDD&D in Syria until the last jihadist mercenary is dead - 17 September 2016 will live in infamy - this minority of Syrians in the 'opposition' regardless.

@81, pw, 'The ship's owner is a privately-held U.S. company: Sealift, Inc.'

Sounds CIAish to me. 'When contact was lost' ... no one answering the phone? Or the ship disappeared from radar screens?

Posted by: jfl | Oct 4, 2016 12:31:32 AM | 82

73

the murkkans have proven themselves utterly incapable of making any intelligent decision, 45 [1] war mongers in office since 1875 cant be coincidence !

to paraphrase kissinger,
*I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go berserk due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the international community to be left to the murkkans own device*

since these assholes [potus] spent all their time in office scheming to rule the world instead of taking care of a crumbling home front, we should've the right to vote in the murkkan 'election' !
the UN should issue a decree to that effect pronto !

u bet the unitedsnake would surely show its middle finger, *try me !*
in that case the UN should order a sanction on murkka and the world community should boycott murkkan products wholesale.
what can murkka offer these days except bombs, bullshit and porn anyway ?
the unitedsnake has been dissing it out to the world for too long now,
its like a plague, a virus, a cancer .
time to stop this madness.

[1]
the 45th potus would be another mic front man, its a given.

p.s.
another 15 civilians 'wasted' by murkkan bombs in afghan and un wants an *investigation*,
.............

uncle scam
*u guys keep 'investigating and analysing' while i keep
bombing away*
hehehehe

meanwhile, the sheeples are glued to the box watching
'debate of the century' bet hillary and trump.


Posted by: denk | Oct 4, 2016 12:40:24 AM | 83

56

And it's too late baby, now, it's too late, though we really did try to make it, something inside has died, and ooo, that smell, can'tcha smell that smell, the smell of death surrounds you:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-03/more-confessions-economic-hit-man-time-they’re-coming-your-democracy

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Oct 4, 2016 1:11:47 AM | 84

Report: Navy Sending Ships To Mandeb Strait Following HSV-2 Swift Attack

Fuzzy and contradicting details surround the brazen attack on the high-speed catamaran.

And from al Manar and several other web sites:

Yemeni Navy Warns Foreign Vessels of Violating Maritime Borders

Yemeni Navy coastal Defense warned on Tuesday every vessel of carrying out any action related to Saudi-led alliance against Yemen, as well as of approaching territorial waters for any reason without taking prior authorization from Yemeni authorities.

Yemeni authorities = Houthis and rebels, not the fake GCC-backed Yemeni government. Yemen territorial waters extend 12 nautical miles (about 20 km) from the shoreline low water mark. If the UAE catamaran was trying to approach/dock at Mokha and was hit 20km out per Jane's, then this was the Houthis/Republican Guard making good on their coastal defense. The 20km territorial water boundary is nothing new - that was always there. The Saudi coalition simply ignored it having already got permission from 'their' fake Yemeni government.

The Saudi coalition and the U.S. still have a blockade on Yemeni ports to prevent Iranian weapons from being shipped there. Problem is that the U.S. Navy's cruise missile destroyers need to be concerned much more with Iranian weapons leaving the Yemeni coast (at 1000 km/hr) than worrying about Iranian weapons being smuggled in.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Oct 4, 2016 5:43:16 AM | 85

@66 This won't top PW's wonderful insight(s) but I was going to include kasamaproject.org but it looks like its been inactive. I found many CUNY types to be either misinformed or disingenuous. I've also found anarchist elements like at crimethic.com and inside diasp.org that simply defy rational thought. Then there are the Libertarians aiming to infest every cyberspace with their deseased minds.

Posted by: Shadow Nine | Oct 4, 2016 7:43:30 AM | 86

75

Combined with the highest population density compared to its domestic rice production of any SE Asia country, making the agrarian Pinoy nation a net rice importer, and their Catholic inability to reverse that inevitable population starvation curve, if you've ever seen the vast numbers of starving orphans there, and with SE Asia's tragic experience with drugas, making them illegal and even punishable by death in other countries, Duterte not only has his Mandate, but his Sovereign Duty to do whatever it takes to purge the scourge of drugas from Pinoy Land. He has to feed his people, counter the flood of hot Chinese R/E development and doesn't have the fiscal luxury of building a Nancy Reagan-esque Just Say No for-profit MIC prison-and-elder-care national police state. God help the junkies, ...no one else will.

Posted by: TheRealDonald | Oct 4, 2016 8:37:34 AM | 87

Do the Philippines deserve Duterte?
...
Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 3, 2016 7:43:00 AM | 75

Yes. So does (Black-hating, racist-supremacist, neo-conned) AmeriKKKa.
According to Al Jazeera, Duterte has announced that the recent Philippines' joint exercises with the US were the last (ie an exorcism) and He intends to RESET the future course of His country toward China & Russia.
This could be your chance to meet Hitlery, Rufus. You and She can sit around with a couple of straws and a punchbowl full of gin, and swap jokes, compare pomposities, and eat your black little hearts out.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 4, 2016 12:53:57 PM | 88

a tale of two 'abused children '.....'

Why did prez Duterte asks jsoc to fuck off from Mindano when the Ph army mounted another campaign on the abu sayyaf jidadists ?
cuz Duterte knew the murkkans have been playing a double game in Ph 'wot' since 2001, just like what they did in Sudan, Mali, Afpak, iraq,
Syria....
the Mindano campaign would most likely be compromised with these double crossing @#$%^! scampering around.

when Duterte was mayor of Davao he came face to face with murkkan false flag operative Michael Meiring
Meiring blew his cover, as well as his legs away, when messing with c4 explosive in his hotel room, he was whisked away by NSA goons right under the nose of mayor Duterte and flewed back to Murkka. [1]
That is part of the reason for Duterte's apparent loathing of the unitedsnake.

Ph has long been Murkka's beach head to confront Beijing.
But India's geopolitical significance is even higher, it sits right smack in China's backyard and it never say no to any Western 'persuasion' to poke the dragon's eyes.
no wonder CIA/NSA infiltration in India is even more extensive and deep rooted than in Ph.

Some high profile expose of CIA moles in India includes Rabinder Singh, a high level CIA under cover in RAW, who absconded with top secret files to Murkka in 2004 after he cover was blown,
India had even more cases like Michael Meiring where wanted CIA FF agents were spiritied out of the country by Murkkan embassy.
The ease of their escapes suggest there are most likely many other CIA moles embedded in high places . [2]

Ph and India are like two abused children.
But Ph under Duterte has finally had enough and broken off the yoke ,,Whereas a much larger and stronger India seems to still wallows in uncle scam's arm pit contentedly.

Perhaps there's a simple explanation.
Indian imperialism is just as ruthless and cunning as the Murkkan variety, the only difference is its scope.
While Indian hegemony is limited to South Asia, at least for now, its Murkkan mentors operates over four seas.
Bharat and Washington are like birds of the same feather who flock togather !


[2]
meet Ken Haywood, the CIA agent provocateur who fled India after setting off several bomb attacks in public places, rings a bell ?
http://www.hindunet.org/hvk/articles/0908/2.html
Then there was David Headley, the DEA asset who bolted after the Mumbai attack, aka India's 911.
These are just the tip of an iceberg.


Posted by: denk | Oct 4, 2016 1:25:08 PM | 89

a tale of two 'abused children '.....'

Why did prez Duterte asks jsoc to fuck off from Mindano when the Ph army mounted another campaign on the abu sayyaf jidadists ?
cuz Duterte knew the murkkans have been playing a double game in Ph 'wot' since 2001, just like what they did in Sudan, Mali, Afpak, iraq,
Syria....
the Mindano campaign would most likely be compromised with these double crossing @#$%^! scampering around.

when Duterte was mayor of Davao he came face to face with murkkan false flag operative Michael Meiring
Meiring blew his cover, as well as his legs away, when messing with c4 explosive in his hotel room, he was whisked away by NSA goons right under the nose of mayor Duterte and flewed back to Murkka. [1]
That is part of the reason for Duterte's apparent loathing of the unitedsnake.

Ph has long been Murkka's beach head to confront Beijing.
But India's geopolitical significance is even higher, it sits right smack in China's backyard and it never say no to any Western 'persuasion' to poke the dragon's eyes.
no wonder CIA/NSA infiltration in India is even more extensive and deep rooted than in Ph.

Some high profile expose of CIA moles in India includes Rabinder Singh, a high level CIA under cover in RAW, who absconded with top secret files to Murkka in 2004 after he cover was blown,
India had even more cases like Michael Meiring where wanted CIA FF agents were spiritied out of the country by Murkkan embassy.
The ease of their escapes suggest there are most likely many other CIA moles embedded in high places . [2]

Ph and India are like two abused children.
But Ph under Duterte has finally had enough and broken off the yoke ,,Whereas a much larger and stronger India seems to still wallows in uncle scam's arm pit contentedly.

Perhaps there's a simple explanation.
Indian imperialism is just as ruthless and cunning as the Murkkan variety, the only difference is its scope.
While Indian hegemony is limited to South Asia, at least for now, its Murkkan mentors operates over four seas.
Bharat and Washington are like birds of the same feather who flock togather !


[2]
meet Ken Haywood, the CIA agent provocateur who fled India after setting off several bomb attacks in public places, rings a bell ?
http://www.hindunet.org/hvk/articles/0908/2.html
Then there was David Headley, the DEA asset who bolted after the Mumbai attack, aka India's 911.
These are just the tip of an iceberg.

Posted by: denk | Oct 4, 2016 1:38:20 PM | 90

No one's pomposities can compare to yours, Horsey.

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 4, 2016 5:38:29 PM | 91

@88 LOL!

Posted by: Lozion | Oct 4, 2016 8:11:10 PM | 92

- Gareth Porter:
"Senior Obama administration officials were aware from 2012 that a war to overthrow Assad would inevitably become a sectarian bloodbath"

Porter also points out that there were already tensions between the Alawites and the sunnis in the 1970s (if not earlier). And that the current civil war is simply the continuation and escalation of those tensions.

Source:
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/real-us-syria-scandal-supporting-sectarian-war-1378989458

The interview with Scott Horton is also very interesting.
http://scotthorton.org/interviews/9216-gareth-porter/

Posted by: Willy2 | Oct 5, 2016 2:29:35 AM | 93

- See the persons who are running the Trump campaign:

https://newrepublic.com/article/136326/donald-trumps-court-jesters-worst-political-team-ever

Posted by: Willy2 | Oct 5, 2016 2:44:31 AM | 94

No one's pomposities can compare to yours, Horsey.
Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 4, 2016 5:38:29 PM | 91

Now Rufie, very uncharacteristically for you, this time you're being way too modest.

Everyone one around here already knows that you are "The Queen of Pompous"

Posted by: Killary PAC | Oct 5, 2016 3:16:53 AM | 95

so both murkka and russia have declared their solid support for modi's 'surgical attack' on pak .

reminds me of the 1962 border war.
bharat was emboldened to provoke china cuz it was backed by both the usa and ussr, at a time when the two super powers were at each others throat.
no mean feat that !

if china is the proverbial whipping boy of the west, then india must surely be their undying bitch!
hehehehe

Posted by: denk | Oct 5, 2016 3:33:25 AM | 96

after wrecking sco, bharat has now done a demolition job on saarc,the south asian caucus.
well done modi, uncle scam would be very pleased with your performance !
dunno why pepe escobar and some others are still saying modiis just 'humoring' washington, bharat wont sell its soul to the great satan. ?
hehehehe

http://swarajyamag.com/insta/how-indian-diplomacy-got-saarc-countries-to-boycott-summit-in-pakistan

Posted by: denk | Oct 5, 2016 4:21:01 AM | 97

Posted by: Willy2 | Oct 5, 2016 2:44:31 AM | 94

Make no mistake, Donald Trump is no outsider.

As in Britain, there seems to be an elite split on how to best protect their interests. It is possible that part of the elite feel they are better off if they protect the huge US market for themselves. And maybe safer with a well-fed, racist white working class.

Posted by: somebody | Oct 5, 2016 8:04:32 AM | 98

I see the haters are out again. Good. I've gotten some lame-ass's goat.

Posted by: rufus magister | Oct 5, 2016 8:11:06 AM | 99

97

*How Indian Diplomacy Got SAARC Countries To Boycott Summit In Pakistan *

indian 'diplomacy' at its best !
roflmao !

well,
sri lanka got its made in delhi/washington regime change last yr,

nepal got its fifth, or is it sixth, made in delhi/washington regime change just last month,

bhutan ?
like sikkim its a budhist monarcy of mongoloid people, never in the indian orbit until india made it a protectorate in 1975 ,while sikkim was invaded and annexed outright.

had beijing done any of these shit the 'international community' would come down on it like a ton of bricks.
but hey, india is a 'democracy' like murkka ....
hehehehe

afghan is of course a murkkan vassal, since the snake has 'outsourced' its asia pivot to india, so afghan would follow delhi's dictat in south asia.

indian 'diplomacy'
my ass !

Posted by: denk | Oct 5, 2016 11:54:02 AM | 100

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