Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 17, 2016

U.S., Israel Launch Airstrikes On Syrian Government Forces - Directly Supporting ISIS And Al-Qaeda

The U.S.

  • refuses to publish the details of the agreement with Russia about the ceasefire  in Syria
  • has done nothing over the last days to separate, as promised, the "moderate rebels" it supports in Syria from al-Qaeda
  • today bombed a Syrian army position in support of an Islamic State attack in Deir Ezzor.

Details of the last attack:

"Today at 17:00-17:50 Moscow time, international anti-Daesh coalition (two F-16 and two A-10 jets) carried out four strikes on Syrian government forces' units encirled by Daesh near Deir ez-Zor airport. The coalition's aircraft entered Syrian airspace from the side of the Iraqi border," Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.
...
As a result of the attack, 62 Syrian soldiers were killed and some 100 others were injured, according to information received from the Syrian command in Deir ez-Zor, he said.

The Russian Defense Ministry said that Daesh terrorists launched an offensive soon after the US-led coalition aircraft attacked the Syrian government forces.

The death toll is likely to increase.

Earlier today the Syrian Arab Army had announced that 1,000 fresh soldiers arrived in Deir Ezzor to liberate it from ISIS.

The U.S. planes came from Erbil in the Kurdish separatist region of Iraq.

The Syrian troops were holding positions on Jabal Tharda, a mountain that overlooks Deir Ezzor's airport. The mountain is now fully under Islamic State control. With this IS has firecontrol over the airport and the Deir Ezzor garrison as well as more than 150,000 civilians living under government protection are thereby cut off from supplies and any further reinforcements. Government forces have launched a counterattack to regain the vital position.

At the same time the Israeli air force attacked Syrian positions in the Golan height after al-Qaeda lobbed a mortar towards Israeli forces signaling the need for support. This has become the official format of Israeli support for al-Qaeda in the area with Israel claiming that the Syrian army is responsible for any and all attacks from the Syrian side no matter who initiates them.

Intense attacks from inside the surrounded, al-Qaeda occupied east-Aleppo on Syrian government positions were launched in the late afternoon local time. Fighting there is ongoing.

Earlier today artillery fire from Turkey hit Syrian army positions in Latakia.

The U.S. air attack on Deir Ezzor was certainly not a mistake but well planed.

It is a signal to Russia and Syria. I am not sure though what lunacy it is supposed to convey.

Posted by b on September 17, 2016 at 02:43 PM | Permalink

Comments
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Putin the Traitor kills 80 Syrian soldiers.
Quosque tandem?

Posted by: Frantic | Sep 17, 2016 10:12:47 PM | 101

charles drake / cdrake - hasbara shit artist.. what else is new? lol...

Posted by: james | Sep 17, 2016 10:18:42 PM | 102

@87 dario

A very good question ...

US conveys 'regret' for anti-ISIS strike that killed Syrian forces, official says


The CENTCOM official said the U.S. military was "certain" about the outcome of the strike. Officials had been watching these forces "for a few days" thinking they were ISIS.

Syria and Russia said the U.S.-led coalition had struck a Syrian military base in Deir el-Zour that was surrounded by ISIS fighters, enabling them to advance. There were "no objections" from the Russians ahead of the airstrike, according to a senior defense official.

The CENTCOM official described the target as "irregular forces," adding that multiple U.S. aircraft struck six military "troop carrier" vehicles and one tank which were "out in the open." The U.S. military informed Russian counterparts before the strike but "did not share specifics" of the target, just the airspace and general area.

Still, Samantha Power, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, lashed out at Russia for requesting an emergency U.N. Security Council meeting Saturday night, calling the request a "stunt."


If Obama were ready to stand up for 'human rights' he'd fire the people he's let run 'his' administration since day 1 - certainly Carter and Power - immediately. He won't ... it 'might' have consequences for his deferred compensation plans.

Clinton/Trump? Much, much more of the same. No to Clinton, no to Trump. Clinton been explicit all along, although she seems down and out now ... Trump's been making promises of unlimited support to the cops, to the Israelis, and pledging to roll back Obama's recognition of the Cuban government, fraud that it is.

Elephants, Jackasses? There's no future with the menagerie. Forget the zoo, turn the page and start anew.

Our only realistic option for change of any sort on the horizon.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 17, 2016 10:27:17 PM | 103

@ PavewayIV | Sep 17, 2016 7:46:43 PM | 73

Now there’s something to ponder. The presence of the Warthogs has to be a clue to WTF is going on. But I don’t agree that Warthogs = JSOC on the ground. USG has been keeping the Warthog in play b/c they argue drones/AWACs can replace live bodies on the ground.

In fact, it could be argued that it was the absence of on-the-ground guidance that caused the “accident.” Look for drones and AWACs to be thrown under the bus for this FU regardless what the truth is. That means USAF needs a budget-boost to update the close air support options.

Posted by: Denis | Sep 17, 2016 10:30:15 PM | 104

@104 d

'The CENTCOM official said the U.S. military was "certain" about the outcome of the strike. Officials had been watching these forces "for a few days" thinking they were ISIS.'

Watching by drone. Do you believe they 'thought' the SAA were IS? Recheck Yonatan's points iv, v, and vi above. This is no FU, they did exactly what they intended to. Carter, Power and the rest are all-in with the neo-cons, vying for positions in the Clinton/Trump administration. I imagine Obama is no longer even consulted. He was nothing but the poster boy for the past eight years anyway. Self-gelded on inauguration.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 17, 2016 10:40:25 PM | 105

That the USAF had a "Whoops! My bad! Sorry!" moment might have been plausible but for the fact that ISIS head hoppers were watching and waiting for..... someone.... to hammer that SAA position before launching their own ground attack. And a hammering is exactly what occurred, right on queue.

Hellooooooooooo

The Russians are right to take this to the UN Security Council. That is the correct venue under International Law, and if the Russians can present convincing (even if only circumstantial) evidence of collusion/co-ordination between that USAF attack and the follow-up ISIS offensive then that will severely damage US credibility.

The long game for Russia must be to peel US friends and allies away from the Borg. It is the only hope they have to avoid WW3.

Certainly the USA is too-far-gone for any appeal to reason, but the Russians must hope that the rest of "the west" can be convinced that the yanks are a latter-day Perfidious Albion.

This might be the moment they get to plant some seed of disquiet in a few capital cities.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 17, 2016 10:42:11 PM | 106

Whoever thinks Putin will hit back directly, instead of setting a fork, just hasn't been paying attention. The entire Ukrainian episode has been one long 'yo'mamma' effort to get Putin to lose his grip. He hasn't. Time is on his side, and he knows it. The Americans aren't paying attention, but the Germans, Greeks and Italians are. They are the ones who matter, actually. This episode means the Pentagon is either incompetent, or dishonorable. Alternatively, the State Dept has no ability to negotiate on behalf of the rest of the US government. Not a good thing for teamUS.

This strike on the military of a country with which we are not at war, was a temper tantrum, not just for the Syrian military trying to re-assert control of its airspace, as mentioned above, but for the collapse of the moderate head-chopper regime in Aleppo. We don't want to cooperate with Russia. Only the Israelis are able to show that degree of sophistication, it seems; the Greeks, Italians and Germans would like their export market back.

Posted by: S.H.E. | Sep 17, 2016 10:47:11 PM | 107

blowback@81 - I suppose, but OV-10As were from the world before drones. There was reportedly a drone on this mission so I assume it was already doing the targeting. Even with a Sniper ATP or drone, there's no way they can tell if they're looking at friend or foe in a mixed, complex battlefield with a hard floor of at least 10,000 ft.(SAM avoidance - not sure of the height of al Tharda) for an OV-10A.

So either an OV-10A or drones are great for designation/targeting against massed enemy formations, convoys and concealed fixed positions if you're absolutely sure they're enemies and not civilians or frendlies. Somthing, say, like an early-evening attack on the foothill terrain of the al-Tharda Mountains against well-known Syrian rocket and artillery positions before you knew ISIS was moving in. I concede they could have forgone JTACs if they had only intended to wipe out SAA positions before the battle and left. As far as I know, they only left after the Russains started yelling at them.

The attack was halted within minutes - I assume they planned to stay around bombing a bit longer ensuring an ISIS victory, so they would have needed solid intel from the ground coordinated with ISIS commanders as the forces mixed. They very well may have used drones/targeting pods/FAC-As, but this operation would have quickly became a mess if they didn't also have JTACs coordinating directly with ISIS as evening fell and the forces engaged. I'm assuming ISIS has no english-speaking JTAC-qualified controllers, but the CIA is pretty resourceful nowadays...

I'll also note that this was one of the highest body-counts I can recall from an Operation Inherent Incompetence airstrike. All those head-choppers running around, and we usually get reports of a pair of F-16s taking out a motor scooter or a technical with a machine gun. Occasionally, the U.S. manages to kill a few ISIS. This is after - what - nearly a thousand missions? And today, we have four aircraft and a drone taking out nearly a hundred SAA 'by mistake' in thirty minutes or so? Yeah... sure. I wonder how many more 'accidents' they would have had if they stuck around the mountain for the next hour or two? They might have taken out a few hundred more SAA troops - enough to ensure ISIS owned the mountains. The one thing the U.S. can't let happen is for the SAA to put any kind of SAMs or radar on the mountain. That might threaten U.S. aircraft doing ISIS/al Nusra close-air support missions when the U.S. decides to take over Deir EzZor for itself.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Sep 17, 2016 10:51:12 PM | 108

Yonatan | Sep 17, 2016 8:09:25 PM | 80

Replies to your numbered points in same order:
It was no mistake:

i) If Obama ordered it then he would want deniability - see my comment @74

ii) If Ash Carter ordered it then he too would want deniability - see my comment @74

iii) Turdah Mountain is the most southerly point of the Deir Ezzor pocket and is a salient sticking out into ISIS territory just waiting to be chopped off. As for preventing air drops at the airport, its about 7 kms away so most ISIS weaponery would be little use in shooting down aircraft doing low-level air drops. However, the air drops are done from over 5000 metres because of the threat from MANPADs, so unless ISIS have heavier SAMs, control of Turdah Mountain has no impact on air drops.
SAAF drops to SARC:
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/video-tons-food-reach-deir-ezzor-parachute-massive-syrian-airdrop/
WFP drops to SARC:
http://panorama.wfp.org/air-drops-provide-lifeline-in-syrias-deir-ezzor
Anyway, Al Masdar News is reporting that ISIS have been kicked off Turdah Mountain.

iv) How long has it been under SAA control? Years? Months?Weeks?

v) You know this how? Al Masdar News haven't mentioned transponders or jamming and they're the best source I've seen on this event. By the way, unless ISIS have an air force of their own, not the USAF, there would be no need for the SAA to operate radar at the air base for so the status of transponders and jamming are irrelevant.

vi) ISIS are highly opportunistic and according to Al Masdar News the were preparing to attack a part of the Deir Ezzor pocket a few miles away (Tal Sannouf) today. Switching the focus of an attack a few miles would not be difficult for a highly mobile force like ISIS. Having the resources and reinforcements in place to defend any gains might be harder. That the SAA retook Tardah Mountain so quickly supports this.

vii) So far it's gone from no statement to "we fucked up" and as the details of the explanation increased, they seemed to have stayed consistent with we fucked up. The only inconsistency I've seen between the US account and the Russian account is whether or not the Russians were informed of the actual target and that is something that needs to be sorted out before it happens again. The joint coordination centre should do that.

The USG is notorious for relying of SIGINT and satellite imagery and that is probably what happened here. After all much of the equipment available to ISIS was captured from the SAA and the SAA make substantial use of technicals so a SAA column would look pretty similar to an ISIS column from space. All the SIGINT would do is reveal that the column consisted of Arabs and the US is notorious for not having enough translators actively available. The USG really does need to coordinate better with the Russians so that this kind of incident does happen again using air identification panels to differentiate between the SAA and ISIS and that requires more coordination than the USG has allwed up to now, or else the USAF, needs to stay far enough away from SAA positions that differentiation doesn't matter.

Posted by: blowback | Sep 17, 2016 10:57:01 PM | 109

@106 yr '... might have been plausible but for the fact that ISIS head hoppers were watching and waiting for ... someone ... to hammer that SAA position before launching their own ground attack'

Yeah, right! Agree there, but 'the rest of "the west"' are in as deep denial as the sleep-walking Americans. Or that's their story and they're stickin' to it. And will stick until to it until the defeat of the US Wehrmacht in Syria.

The Russians can now make the case that they just cannot believe the Americans any longer. Questioning civilian control of American armed forces is a good idea as well.

The Russians need to 'take a break' with negotiations of the jaw, jaw variety and get back to business. I think Mike Whitney's point of Syria declaring its air-spaced closed to USrael and NATO is a very good one. Another s-400 system for south-central Syria would be good.

And then heads-down and liquidate the Turkish/Saudi/GCC suicide squads in Syria.

Easy for me to say.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 17, 2016 10:57:44 PM | 110

Long game vs short game.
Putin vs OldBombUh
Russia/China vs US/Empire

There are indications that this is one of those "Oh that evil Putin/Russia/China let the US/Empire get away with murder" moments.

Maybe. Maybe not. In the short game it certainly does look like it. But in the long game ... Russia has proven to the world that the US is not to be trusted. Erosion of trust is the last thing the empire needs. Even the former colony (Philippines) are working both sides to free themselves from their former owners. (It is amusing that Duterte called out OldBombUh as a puntang ina ... and he may be right?) Even the most blindly patriotic Americans don't seem to be upset with that rhetorical flourish.

So, what does the UN do? Obviously, whatever is tried will be vetoed by the US ... making things a gesture. Of course, sometimes gestures are mightier than bombs, even OldBombUh bombs.

I am waiting to see what the presidential contenders (clowns) have to say. Neither is likely to say anything one way or the other ...

So, now ... let's see, where were we?

Posted by: rg the lg | Sep 17, 2016 11:06:33 PM | 111

jfl | Sep 17, 2016 8:23:59 PM | 82
Yes you can use F-16s for FAC-A but the A-10 is better as it's slower and has greater survivability at low altitude. And if the FAC-A is in an F16, then there is no need for a JTAC on the ground since an F-16 FAC-A can control for an A-10.

I hate using "social media" as evidence but check out what OA-10s were capable of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDc5NoQAD_A
You don't need FTACs when you have FAC-As. I know the USAF fighter-jocks hate the A-10, but when all the OA-10s were upgraded to A-10C, I can't believe they gave up this capability.

Posted by: blowback | Sep 17, 2016 11:08:56 PM | 112

102 poor james is losing it
what a a mind
sneaky boy having a word
getting words deleted
that is nazi eye aska ya is it not.
you are the low level hasbara.

what if the pilots like in ukrainia downed passenger plain
what if these pilots where israeli
in jewish or us planes
putin would not disclose one way or the other.
he will not disclose even if his own men got taken out
that is the way he rolls
no escalation
no doubt top hez,iranian and russian will have to suck this one in even if they have had men down.

have the british raf pilots not been flying in other countries planes and bombing grain silos
and factory in syria the few left that have not been destroyed or looted machine plant shipped to turkey and on to israel.
if the honorable raf pilots use other folks planes why not the israeli.
no plane swap needed even just a sticker to cover over saturn satan star of david

Posted by: cdrake | Sep 17, 2016 11:10:16 PM | 113

Denis@104 - We crossposted, Denis.

"...But I don’t agree that Warthogs = JSOC on the ground. USG has been keeping the Warthog in play b/c they argue drones/AWACs can replace live bodies on the ground..."

The argument is a bit more nuanced then that, but it does not apply to mixed battlefields after all the friendly-fire 'accidents' and civilian casualties over the years. If aircraft and drones could do all the target designation accurately from the air in a mixed environment, then they wouldn't have bothered putting JTACs on the ground in Afghanistan, Iraq and now Syria. On the other hand, if the U.S. has air dominance and is attacking isolated, easily-identified enemy military targets well-behind the lines, then sure - FAC-As, drones, AWACS, Nintendo, iPhones, etc. seem adequate.

"...In fact, it could be argued that it was the absence of on-the-ground guidance that caused the “accident.” Look for drones and AWACs to be thrown under the bus for this FU regardless what the truth is. That means USAF needs a budget-boost to update the close air support options..."

Behind closed doors in AF budget meetings, EVERYTHING is a potential excuse for more cash. But these were just dead Syrians - not even human to the current psychopathic leaders. You have to at least smoke some allies before you use it to whine for more taxpayer money. But Syrians? Heck, they were probably popping the Champagne corks at McDill all morning after the body count. That's like a dead Iraqi to the U.S. - just one less 'problem' to worry about.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Sep 17, 2016 11:14:42 PM | 114

@109 bb

You're a 'good', loyal man and a dogged proponent of the company line. I remain unconvinced. It's not 'just' this massacre - although in isolation I'd still see it as deliberate - it's the entire history of the USSA in Syria. And Libya, and Ukraine, and Yemen. And Iraq and Afghanistan. Liars, murderers, war criminals for the past 4 presidential terms.


... this was one of the highest body-counts I can recall from an Operation Inherent Incompetence airstrike. All those head-choppers running around, and we usually get reports of a pair of F-16s taking out a motor scooter or a technical with a machine gun. Occasionally, the U.S. manages to kill a few ISIS. This is after - what - nearly a thousand missions?

And today, we have four aircraft and a drone taking out nearly a hundred SAA 'by mistake' in thirty minutes or so?


The fish rots from the head, as the mafia say. Face it. We ordinary Americans need to oppose the criminal cabal that's held our government in thrall for 16 long years. No more 'good Germans'. Apologists for the criminals in power are doing no one any good.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 17, 2016 11:17:47 PM | 115

Obama should sack Samantha Powers immediately. She is a fucking psychopath.

Posted by: blowback | Sep 17, 2016 11:18:31 PM | 116

@116

So is he. They self-select each other.

Posted by: Kuma | Sep 17, 2016 11:22:08 PM | 117

Syria will if Russia succeeds...be part of the Eurasia Energy Future.
This block exists with some security agreements.
The US coalition cannot be trusted. ..it should be asked to leave Syria
...Iraq too.

Russian Airborne divisions and Iranian Reg Army could secure Raqqa and Der Ezzor from some US/ISIS or US/Kurd attempt to gain partition.

A Temporary Security presence could isolate ISIS and whatever kook Takfiri groups which will not accept general Amnesty.

Putin/Lavrov want the negotiated settlement...
That will not happen if Syria East is wide open for Empire.

The conflict could drag on for years. ..
Or possibly a major investment and some temporary security coordination might end Empires Game on Syria.

In the End. ..Empire us going to war over Syria or back off.

Posted by: Brad | Sep 17, 2016 11:27:22 PM | 118

Paveway @108 said

"The attack was halted within minutes - I assume they planned to stay around bombing a bit longer ensuring an ISIS victory, so they would have needed solid intel from the ground coordinated with ISIS commanders as the forces mixed. They very well may have used drones/targeting pods/FAC-As, but this operation would have quickly became a mess if they didn't also have JTACs coordinating directly with ISIS as evening fell and the forces engaged. I'm assuming ISIS has no english-speaking JTAC-qualified controllers, but the CIA is pretty resourceful nowadays... "

BINGO!

Thank you for providing those of us who haven't a clue about an F-16's mission vs an OV-A10s. Based on your knowledge about both one can only assume this attack by my countries Air Force was indeed intentional.

Posted by: h | Sep 17, 2016 11:34:39 PM | 119

PavewayIV | Sep 17, 2016 10:51:12 PM | 108
I never mentioned the OV-10A Bronco. I was referring to OA-10s, a variant of the A-10 capable of supporting FAC-A/FAC(A)/whatever which have all now been converted to A-10C. See the video @ 112.

Posted by: blowback | Sep 17, 2016 11:35:28 PM | 120

I'm an American citizen. Incredibly disgusted w/my government, fellow citizens, & humans in general. The US has never been an honest partner. Look no further than treaties w/native Americans to discover a long history of sovereign treaty violations. I have no idea why anyone would ever expect my country to uphold agreed obligations. Never has, never will. All empires fade, this one will too. I have a feeling American citizens will regret our past & current behavior when the shoe is on the other foot.

Posted by: Beau | Sep 17, 2016 11:38:19 PM | 121

and jfl...keep fighting the good fight. I certainly do admire your patient tenacity.

Posted by: h | Sep 17, 2016 11:40:31 PM | 122

Russia Walks Out Of UN Meeting
Vitaly Churkin response on Obama actions in Syria


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bID01gIEIOY

Posted by: cdrake | Sep 17, 2016 11:40:46 PM | 123

blowback@112 "...I know the USAF fighter-jocks hate the A-10,.."

Huh? No - maybe some chair-polishers at the Pentagram on the F-35 project, but hog pilots love the A-10 and non-hog pilots love that they don't have to do what the A-10 does for them. An F-22 pilot might not want to trade places with a hog pilot, but trust me - they generally want them around more then they want them gone.

"...but when all the OA-10s were upgraded to A-10C, I can't believe they gave up this capability..."

If you can strap a laser marker or Sniper ATP on a hog (any model) and tell the pilot to find something to blow up, it becomes an OV-10. The -C upgrade was to bring the older, dedicated OV-10As to the more current (at the time) -C standard upgrade configuration so they can task with either loadout and mission.

There was nothing unique AFIK about the original batch of OV-10As other than they were dedicated to use the OV role. Same basic avionics, ECM, etc. - just carried a marker pod instead of heavy munitions, AFIK. Units with the A-10Cs still run observation/recon missions configured with just a pod and tanks.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Sep 17, 2016 11:40:55 PM | 124

This air attack on the SAA positions and resulting casualties seems to be a response to the recent defense of SAA positions against Israeli strike aircraft. The message to Russia et al seems to be one of 'we are not going to allow you to defeat our proxy forces. so you had better play by the rules of an endless war of attrition or we will up the ante which you and we both know that in this locality we can easily rule if push comes to shove." It seems the only thing Syria and her friends can do is to keep killing the CIA mercenaries for as long as it takes. When this latest CoH fails it will back to business as usual. Remember the coalition is backed by as much money to wage this war as they want, owning the world reserve currency, while the other side has to watch its budgeting. I wonder if Russia will make a 'mistake' and hit Turkish/FSA forces in this tit for tat, with many apologies of course? Not very likely if they are taking this to the U.N. for a few giggles. They're high fiving in Langley, Tel Aviv and the Pentagon tonight.

Posted by: BRF | Sep 17, 2016 11:43:39 PM | 125

blowback@120 - Sorry, I meant OA-10As in that post and everywhere in @124 where I mistakenly used OV-10A. I can never get use to typing OA-10A - the Bronco will not so easily be forgotten! Well, at least in my small mind. In any case, excuse the typos but my thoughts still apply for the A-10 variants (and obviously not the Boncos).

Posted by: PavewayIV | Sep 17, 2016 11:49:14 PM | 126

jfl | Sep 17, 2016 11:17:47 PM | 115
I'm anything but a "company man" but in this case I believe the USAF when they say they fucked up. Bureaucratic organisations like the USAF, once they acquire a view on a particular subject find it very difficult to let go or question that view. In this case, I guess that a few months ago, the USAF actually did see ISIS forces in that location because looking back through recent Al Masdar News (AMN) articles, it was only captured by the SAA from ISIS fairly recently, but as I suggest in an earlier comment it would be difficult to differentiate between the SAA and ISIS just by looking at the kit present at that lcation.
If somebody in the USAF read AMN on a regular basis they would have a far better idea of what's going on but the USAF probably regards AMN as enemy propaganda.
As for how many they killed I suspect the the SAA soldiers at that location believed they had no reason to fear the USAF (US is only country to use A-10s) so none of them took cover so killing them would have been easy. Also because ISIS don't have an air force outside of the USAF in this case, they probably hadn't prepared slit trenches or the like to give them some protection if they were bombed. That they didn't run for cover before the aircraft arrived should have suggested to the air controller that they might not be ISIS but again the bureaucratic mind works against that. They had a job to do so they did it.

Posted by: blowback | Sep 18, 2016 12:03:55 AM | 127

I await the real Russian reaction with bated breath. Not this UNSC jaw jaw, but the fist in the velvet glove kind. The empire only understands military power, and no amounts of CoHs will deter its military aggression.

Posted by: BiblesNBlowjobs | Sep 18, 2016 12:23:48 AM | 128

US air force is on the record of killing Canadian soldiers, exterminating wedding parties etc., so it could be a mistake.

However, it is a very weird mistakes, because the positions around Deir ez-Zor are quite static, so at the very least, they new that the "vehicles" are very close to the front line, at it seems a deep breach of military principles to conduct strikes in such a situation without the coordination with the troops on the ground. One reason why Russians lost some soldiers as observers.

Some reasons as to "why now" seem to implausible speculations to me. However, it was reported in NYT etc. that Pentagon is very unhappy about the ceasefire agreement negotiated by Kerry, and at that time it was one reason why USA did not want to publish the agreement: DoD did not want it. So basically, they did not like the letter of the agreement. This could be a motivation enough to be "sloppy".

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 18, 2016 12:25:09 AM | 129

Russian parliamentary election are tomorrow? Voting began 4 hours ago.
I hope I'm wrong but I think Hillary Clinton is now in charge and the COH is history ... and Sam Powers and Clinton surrogates are going to step to the fore ...
Clinton's campaign needed a boost. She will "regret" the deaths and suggest also the failures Obama/Kerry were ... well, you know. It will be supple. Clinton and then Obama were keynote speakers at the Congressional Black Caucus dinner tonight...

Russia was charged with keeping Syria's airforce grounded in "coalition areas" because the USA and Russia would have those areas "handled" ... I don't know Assad (or Iran for that matter) but they may not be ammendable to Putin's next "initiative" given how badly this turned out for The SAA.

I'd like to think for the sake of this country (USA), Obama will come out swinging... but even I laugh at that idea. Everyone may start getting ready for January's transition a bit early, if they believe a "hotted up" Syria will drive voters to Clinton.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Sep 18, 2016 12:38:37 AM | 130

@126 bb, '...again the bureaucratic mind works against that. They had a job to do so they did it'

Yeah. That's what they said at Nuremberg. No more 'good Germans'. That's what the Israelis did as they strafed, rocketed, and torpedoed the USS Liberty, killing 34 and wounding 174. No more 'good Israelis'. And no more 'good Americans' either. A war criminal is a war criminal, whether they're killing up close and personal like IS, or from a few thousand feet like the warthogs, or from their gameboy consoles in Nevada, or from the chair marked POTUS in the coven of criminals at the White House. As you point out ... 'the bureaucratic mind works' that way. If I were in the US armed forces I'd likely be a war criminal as well. I'm just lacking the 'opportunity', fortunately. The toughest job in the world is to be an honest individual in a corrupt organization. Heroes are honest and stand-up people. I'm no hero. Heroism requires sacrifice. Most of us aren't found to be up to it. That doesn't excuse our criminal behavior, in or out of uniform.

@122 h,

Thanks for the kind words. But I'm not fighting the 'good fight'. I'm living in a country where I have no standing. If I were 'fighting the good fight' I'd be back in the USSA, joining together with my fellows and organizing to [re?]establish democracy and to end this disgraceful, criminal run of aggression which began with the millennium. I'm just running my mouth. Talk is cheap.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 18, 2016 12:58:59 AM | 131

I never saw a report about the results of this summit (that I saw pre-meeting mention of in the NYT) from yesterday
al-arabiya: Unease over Syria deal: Obama gathers advisers.

US President Barack Obama will huddle with top national security aides – including his secretaries of state and defense – Friday, amid deep unease over a tenuous Syria ceasefire deal.

Barely a week since the United States and Russia agreed to halt bombing and let humanitarian aid into Aleppo, shaky implementation looks set to dominate a meeting ostensibly about countering ISIS.

Elsewhere the Russian envoy said the aid convoys would be en-route tomorrow.

I'm wondering if this isn't a facesaving scuttling / reset since Team Obama cannot get the rebels to allow the aid to come in ... because things in Rojava are going so badly ...

Power's acted as though 80 dead and 100 wounded was "all in a routine day's work" ... chilling

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Sep 18, 2016 1:08:35 AM | 132

Barack Obama is a terrorist.

Posted by: imo | Sep 18, 2016 1:10:36 AM | 133

1 second to midnight right now for those who cannot see the forest for the trees. When the clock strikes it will not be by choice.

Posted by: 2359 | Sep 18, 2016 1:29:36 AM | 134

Samantha Power at the UN Security Council

http://webtv.un.org/watch/samantha-power-usa-on-syria-security-council-media-stakeout-17-september-2016/5130062236001

Churkin at the UN Security Council

http://webtv.un.org/search/vitaly-churkin-russian-federation-on-syria-security-council-media-stakeout-17-september-2016/5130085776001

I have never before seen such unprofessional, vile and childish performance as that of Power

Posted by: b | Sep 18, 2016 1:43:39 AM | 135

Tell me again that this was a great "deal" for Russia and Iran to agree to...

So far:

The US has delayed the coordinated strikes with Russia until "aid is delivered" - with Russia having to do that.

The US has embedded troops in with the Turkish invasion force.

The US has bombed Syrian troops in DIRECT support of ISIS.

Israel has continued to bomb inside Syria with impunity, despite a drone shootdown and (allegedly) a shootdown of an Israel jet.

Virtually all the so-called "moderate" insurgents have refused to either recognize the "cessation of hostilities" or have explicitly refused to separate themselves from AlQaeda, with some members actually threatening US troops at one point.

We TOLD you this deal was a bad idea. Now it's proving to be so. A whole slew of so-called "antiwar pundits" tried to convince everyone that Russia and Iran made out like a bandit on this deal. I hope they're totally ashamed of themselves.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Sep 18, 2016 1:52:49 AM | 136

Uh-oh...

yalla souriya ‏@YallaSouriya 9h

Reports that there r russian officers and soldiers among those killed in Deir Ezzor.

2:34 PM - 17 Sep 2016

Posted by: PavewayIV | Sep 18, 2016 2:16:31 AM | 137

Russia should respond in force... bombing by "error" the positions of the US commandos in Syria and Iraq. Carpet bombing the rear bases of the saudi/qatari/zionist/CIA islamic terrorists...

Posted by: guy | Sep 18, 2016 2:37:58 AM | 138

@136 if true we are inexorably inching closer to conflict between major powers in Syria.
I cant help but think that Dabiq does have some sort of significance in all this.. May I be proven wrong..

Posted by: Lozion | Sep 18, 2016 2:43:42 AM | 139

What title would you put on top of the article?
- Pres loses control of armed forces
- Trillion-dollar air force doesn't know whp it's bombing
- Treaty with US not worth shit

Posted by: Passerby | Sep 18, 2016 2:44:11 AM | 140

I'm furious at the constant deception.

Posted by: jezabeel | Sep 18, 2016 3:01:13 AM | 141

@ b with the links update at #134....thanks for posting and update

Ms. Powers is playing her part to the hilt and even if it is my country, I hope she loses and is prosecuted for her war crimes.

We are witnessing the demise of empire. The empire cannot use nukes so it is using surrogate warriors to exert control and that seems to be failing. Their only hope is for a war that they can get Americans to rise up and support. I guess we will get to see if they can pull it off but it just continues to look like egg on the face to me.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 18, 2016 3:01:24 AM | 142

That very bad acting by Samantha Power was cynical and vile; reaching new heights of lies and hubris.
Her faux drama was pure camp, fooling nobody...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Sep 18, 2016 3:25:24 AM | 143

Susan Sunflower | Sep 17, 2016 4:32:10 PM | 21

"...President Barack Obama will try to define how his leadership has made the planet safer and more prosperous when he gives his farewell speech."

!Breaking News!

"Due to the satirical nature of President Barack Hussein Obama's attempt to define his leadership as having made planet Earth safer and more prosperous, the farewell speech has been moved from the UN headquarters to the studios of 'Saturday Night Life' in Chicago. A well chosen location, as Obama started his deception career in Beirut by the Lake."
(From undisclosed sources)

Posted by: Nottheonly1 | Sep 18, 2016 3:30:43 AM | 144

Disgusting, US bomb another nation, its a declaration of war and where is the fucking outrage by the lousy EU? Nato? MSM? None to be found to condemn this warcrime! No wonder western gov, media lack credibility!

Timing & other aspects of US strike on Syrian army suggest intentional provocation – Churkin
https://www.rt.com/news/359691-us-strike-syria-unsc-churkin/

Posted by: Lovez82 | Sep 18, 2016 3:49:28 AM | 145

Re: Posted by: Andoheb | Sep 17, 2016 2:53:03 PM | 1

Agree.

If they don't start shooting these planes out of the sky they will keep bombing the Syrians, the Iranians, the Russians, all of them.

What's the disincentive to stop bombing the Syrians if the Russians stand by and issue condemnations in New York?

Posted by: Jules | Sep 18, 2016 3:57:23 AM | 146

Australian jets were involved in US-led air strike.

Which is interesting from several angles. Al Nusra is listed as a terrorist organization by the Australian government. Assisting them in any way is a serious breach of Australian criminal law. Moreover, Australian operations can only be run with US approval because of the high level of systems interoperability. Finally, Australian military in Iraq (and now in Syria) are there under diplomatic passports, specifically designed to provide legal cover for what are in effect illegal war activities in both of those countries.

There is good reason for both Australians and Iraqi to be concerned about this unprecedented use of Australian diplomatic passports by 200 elite soldiers deployed into a combat zone, reasons which are as much political and strategic as they are legal.

This ‘solution’ is the definition of a bad idea – one that will not provide the legal protection soldiers need when things go wrong, and since the special forces are engaged in anything but diplomatic representation, will degrade the status of Australian diplomatic passports, putting our diplomats at risk in the future.

There should be a local shit storm over this misuse of Aussie forces -- but there won't be.

Posted by: damien | Sep 18, 2016 3:58:00 AM | 147

1. The Syrian government is too weak to defend itself against the extent of foreign aggression currently taking place.
2. The Russian, Iranian and Lebanese military support for the Syrian government is adequate to tip the balance against the current extent of foreign aggression, but just barely.
3. Hence the supporters of the Syrian government cannot afford to act undiplomatically or unilaterally, thus providing pretexts for increased foreign aggression against Syria.
4. Hence the Russian government (and to a lesser extent the Syrian, Iranian and Lebanese governments) cannot afford to dismiss out of hand any proposals made by the foreign aggressors, however absurd these proposals might seem, or indeed be.
5. It is important to show to the Syrian people currently opposed to the Assad dictatorship that, however bad things might be under the Ba'ath Party, the alternative is infinitely worse, and a sequence of broken promises by the foreign aggressors will help to undermine sympathy for those aggressors and thus reduce the number of Syrians (as opposed to foreign stooges and mercenaries pretending to be Syrians for the camera) supporting the civil war.
5. The Russian involvement in Syria is necessarily limited; the Russian government is not all-powerful and the Russian involvement cannot become too expensive for a government whose resources are limited. Also Syria is surrounded by supporters of foreign aggression on almost all sides.

These points help to explain why the Russians are interested in accepting American proposals; the Americans violate their agreements, but then the Americans have always violated their agreements (see Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, NATO and so forth) so the only thing which the Russians and the Syrian government can do is try to take advantage of the political fallout from such violations.

Last but not least, the attack was launched from a U.S. military base set up in Iraqi territory (even if the Baghdad writ does not run in Kurdistan, Baghdad will never admit that Kurdistan is not part of Iraq), and was aimed at supporting the Islamic State forces which are at war with both Kurdistan and Baghdad. I am prepared to accept that the Kurdish junta are so in hock to the U.S. that they will ignore this effective act of war against them (which parallels the Turkish war against the Kurds in Syria and eastern Turkey) but will the Baghdad junta fall in line so easily?1. The Syrian government is too weak to defend itself against the extent of foreign aggression currently taking place.
2. The Russian, Iranian and Lebanese military support for the Syrian government is adequate to tip the balance against the current extent of foreign aggression, but just barely.
3. Hence the supporters of the Syrian government cannot afford to act undiplomatically or unilaterally, thus providing pretexts for increased foreign aggression against Syria.
4. Hence the Russian government (and to a lesser extent the Syrian, Iranian and Lebanese governments) cannot afford to dismiss out of hand any proposals made by the foreign aggressors, however absurd these proposals might seem, or indeed be.
5. It is important to show to the Syrian people currently opposed to the Assad dictatorship that, however bad things might be under the Ba'ath Party, the alternative is infinitely worse, and a sequence of broken promises by the foreign aggressors will help to undermine sympathy for those aggressors and thus reduce the number of Syrians (as opposed to foreign stooges and mercenaries pretending to be Syrians for the camera) supporting the civil war.
5. The Russian involvement in Syria is necessarily limited; the Russian government is not all-powerful and the Russian involvement cannot become too expensive for a government whose resources are limited. Also Syria is surrounded by supporters of foreign aggression on almost all sides.

These points help to explain why the Russians are interested in accepting American proposals; the Americans violate their agreements, but then the Americans have always violated their agreements (see Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, NATO and so forth) so the only thing which the Russians and the Syrian government can do is try to take advantage of the political fallout from such violations.

Last but not least, the attack was launched from a U.S. military base set up in Iraqi territory (even if the Baghdad writ does not run in Kurdistan, Baghdad will never admit that Kurdistan is not part of Iraq), and was aimed at supporting the Islamic State forces which are at war with both Kurdistan and Baghdad. I am prepared to accept that the Kurdish junta are so in hock to the U.S. that they will ignore this effective act of war against them (which parallels the Turkish assault on the Kurds in Syria and eastern Turkey) but what will the Baghdad junta say?

Posted by: MFB | Sep 18, 2016 4:12:29 AM | 148

paveway.. as always, thanks for your insightful posts.. yonatan ditto.. thank you..

@109 blowback quote addressed to yonatan "v) You know this how?" yonatan has access to russian media and possibly more), while it appears you don't.. i believe they speak russian and i doubt that you do.

another blowback quote " The USG really does need to coordinate better with the Russians..." are you a comedian or what? the whole fucking world knows this except the exceptional nation which make a point of telling us how much putin is like saddam and shit like that... anyone who thinks " The USG really does need to coordinate better with the Russians" hasn't been paying much attention to the story line that is being regularly told.. to think this will happen is myopic..

@113 cdrake.. your posts are boring, but i do note you mentioned my name, lol... keep on boring the shit out of the folks here.. you're good at it!

@116 blowback... i agree with you there!

@117 kuma.. even better as that hits on the truth even more..

@126 blowback quote "but the USAF probably regards AMN as enemy propaganda." most of the usa has it's head up it's ass..the western msm is a cesspool of bullshite where no one can see past what they are told by idiots like obama and samantha powers.. this is especially so in the usa..

blowback - you come across as an apologist for the exceptional nation.. sorry, i don't know how to put it any other way..

Posted by: james | Sep 18, 2016 4:20:37 AM | 149

@147 mfp 'what will the Baghdad junta say?'

I would hope they will say US out of Iraq! But I've been hoping to hear that since the Russians stood up in Syria. There have been quite a string of massive protests in Iraq recently. Maybe someday they will result in a new government there. Maybe this will contribute to the realization of that eventuality.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 18, 2016 4:22:17 AM | 150

Sorry ... mfb.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 18, 2016 4:24:01 AM | 151

Churkin's statement regarding the terms of the ceasefire should make the Syrian authorities concerned.

Russia's effectively negotiated a surrender and imposed it on Syria. They're now dictating what the Syrian army can/can't bomb/attack!! And this is suppose to be an "ally"!!!
He also mentioned the main aim of the COH is to lead to a "transition"(whatever that means): ie, regime change by other means.

Regarding the US, I think there're several factions here(depending on who pays more) playing different game in Syria. There's the CIA/State/Kerry department faction and the Pentagon faction. Obama's merely a spectator as he's already on his way out. The attack on the Syrian army was by the Pentagon faction who're pissed at the Kerry faction for negotiating.


What's happening in Syria is a clear message to any state that wishes to remain independent but lacks strategic detterence. North Korea can now detonate a nuclear device and the US can only whine about it.Why?? Becasue that's how power works. Having a massive army with only AKs and few migs is so 1920s.

Unfortunately for Syrians, they have no real strategic weapons/options on the table to respond in kind to any of the aggressors attacking them. Others states must take note and act accordingly!!!

Posted by: Zico | Sep 18, 2016 4:24:36 AM | 152

Churkin's statement regarding the terms of the ceasefire should make the Syrian authorities concerned.

Russia's effectively negotiated a surrender and imposed it on Syria. They're now dictating what the Syrian army can/can't bomb/attack!! And this is suppose to be an "ally"!!!
He also mentioned the main aim of the COH is to lead to a "transition"(whatever that means): ie, regime change by other means.

Regarding the US, I think there're several factions here(depending on who pays more) playing different game in Syria. There's the CIA/State/Kerry department faction and the Pentagon faction. Obama's merely a spectator as he's already on his way out. The attack on the Syrian army was by the Pentagon faction who're pissed at the Kerry faction for negotiating.


What's happening in Syria is a clear message to any state that wishes to remain independent but lacks strategic detterence. North Korea can now detonate a nuclear device and the US can only whine about it.Why?? Becasue that's how power works. Having a massive army with only AKs and few migs is so 1920s.

Unfortunately for Syrians, they have no real strategic weapons/options on the table to respond in kind to any of the aggressors attacking them. Others states must take note and act accordingly!!!

Posted by: Zico | Sep 18, 2016 4:24:53 AM | 153

Sorry about the wobbly post; rural South African Internet isn't up to much.

Posted by: MFB | Sep 18, 2016 4:25:57 AM | 154

it look like it was written by a badly designed bot programed by an illiterate Nigerian.


Sheesh...Kuma @ 61

Mr. f*ckin English grammar teacher... Racist much??? Illiterate Nigerian??? Really????


I think you should learn to appreciate the fact that most people on this site are NOT English. The fact that they can write in Eglish(however crude) is testament to the fact that they know the language enough to express themselves.


May I ask, what other languages can you speak/write in without looking/sounding like an "illiterate Nigerian"???

Posted by: Zico | Sep 18, 2016 4:33:59 AM | 155

b @134

I can't believe the UN forces people to use a flashplayer ... anyway, the very conditions of Samantha Power's little routine tell the whole story ..

1. the USA bombs Syrian troops fighting IS in Syria, killing 80 and wounding 100
2. IS attacks said troops immediately thereafter
3. the Russians call a UNSC meeting to read the US the riot act
4. SP, the banshee, rather than meekly and contritely attending the meeting as the representative of the USA, holds a show outside blaming the Russians for ... whatever comes to mind.

This is team Hillary in action. I imagine the rest of the world is already as sick of Hillary and her banshee as all of us are ...

Posted by: jfl | Sep 18, 2016 4:34:49 AM | 156

@110 "The Russians can now make the case that they just cannot believe the Americans any longer. Questioning civilian control of American armed forces is a good idea as well."

I agree with that.

"The Russians need to 'take a break' with negotiations of the jaw, jaw variety and get back to business. I think Mike Whitney's point of Syria declaring its air-spaced closed to USrael and NATO is a very good one. Another s-400 system for south-central Syria would be good."

No, I don't agree with that.

There is no point declaring a "no-fly zone" against the USAF unless you intent to start a full-scale air war against the most powerful air force in the world.

Because it is a given that the US government will respond to any such declaration by insisting that their Very Exceptional Air Force will continue to fly their missions, and any attempt by anyone to interfere will be met with deadly force.

As far as they will be concerned the legalities can be damned - if one of their jets is painted by an acquisition radar while flying inside Syrian airspace then that radar station will be obliterated.

What the Russians should do - and IMHO are now seeking to do - is to create such a diplomatic stink over this that the only resolution will be a joint USAF/RuAF command centre which will co-ordinate all air activity inside Syrian airspace.

Maybe the US government will agree with that, maybe they won't. Probably not.

But at least there is *some* chance that the Russians will succeed in that aim, whereas a declaration of a "no-fly zone" has no hope of achieving a positive outcome for the Russians.

At best they will have to back down when the USAF ignores the declaration.
At worse it will mean engaging in a full-on shooting war with the USA.


Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 18, 2016 4:46:05 AM | 157

‘Unbelievable’ that US strike on Syrian army was mistake – fmr MI5 agent
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/359690-us-syria-airstrike-unlikely-unintentional/

Posted by: Lovez82 | Sep 18, 2016 4:57:30 AM | 158

Fars news agency quoting prominant Syrian general, stating that Turkish aircaft over Syria will be targeted.

http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13950628000285

Posted by: wwinsti | Sep 18, 2016 5:12:34 AM | 159

Feel free to delete my last post b. "A prominent Syrian military analyst" is not a general.

Posted by: wwinsti | Sep 18, 2016 5:25:00 AM | 160

@156 yr

Well, it's not up to you or I what the Syrians and Russians do decide to do. It's up to the Syrians and the Russians. They have more information available to them and much more at stake than you and I do. Everything is at stake for them.

I certainly agree that backing themselves into

a. 'At best they will have to back down when the USAF ignores the declaration.' or
b. 'At worst it will mean engaging in a full-on shooting war with the USA.'

is not good. I have no worry that the neither the Syrians nor the Russians will do that. Someone else, several people, above have pointed out that the Russians have avoided just that choice in Ukraine, and in Syria thus far.

But Syria is going to have to assert control over her airspace sometime ... and unilateral 'no-fly' zones in other peoples' airspace are going to have to seen to be the act of aggression they are at some point in time ... this stuff started with Bush XLI and is now seemingly accepted ... but it's an act of war and must be rolled back if the world's nations are not all to become the vassals of the evil empire. This is a good time to turn the world's attention to that fact. A 'gift from god' as Erdogan would say.

The Syrians ought to assert control of their airspace and point to this act of aggression by the US - 'well intentioned' or not ... as in violation of that. Just as Erdogan used the coup to back the US into a corner. And, as with Israel's blockade of Palestine, these acts of war have to be labeled for what they are.

The Syrians will be doing the world a favor if they can bring this point home, and this particular, egregious act of aggression by the USA provides the occasion to get that across. They would do well to tie this in with the Israeli blockade of Palestine. The USA has essentially, unilaterally taken control of Syrian airspace if they get away with this.

With the help of the Palestinians, the Lebanese, the Iraqis, and the Iranians ... and the Russians, all of whom but the Russians themselves in Russia, are potentially subject to exactly the same treatment ... they all need unite and to use this monstrous event to put an end to the appropriation of access to their own seacoasts and their own airspace by the evil empire and its droogies.

I'm sure they will know better than I just how that can best be done. But surely the declaration of their juridical right to control their seacoasts and airspace is something the UN must be made not just to accept but to defend. Otherwise it is manifestly just another 'global' organization expropriated and weaponized by the evil empire. As in fact it has been. This is the occasion the rest of the world can/must use to reverse that sorry state of affairs.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 18, 2016 5:32:12 AM | 161

In this ynet article, the IDF lets slip that the recent irondome interceptions of 2 projectiles were protecting jehadists in Syria, not shooting down missiles aimed at Israel.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4856168,00.html

Posted by: wwinsti | Sep 18, 2016 6:17:37 AM | 162

jfl | Sep 18, 2016 12:58:59 AM | 130
World War 2 was supposed to have been fought to have stopped Hitler and the Nazis from achieving world domination. Having achieved world domination throughout most of the world outside of the Soviet Union and its sphere of interest, and China at the end of World War 2, it has been fighting wars ever since to ensure that continued domination and slowly losing all the time.
The United States advantage in the past was that it had even deeper and wider moats than Britain but that has became a handicap with the breakup of the Soviet Union so now it is in danger of becoming peripheral to where the action will be. That is why it did so much to create the Jihadist menace.
The United States knows how to do battle but really doesn't have a clue of how to do war except against trivial insignificant states perhaps because as far as I can see, the United States has never won a real war, not some jumped up police action, in its existence.
It lost the War of 1812 and the other wars it won in the 18th century were against the shell that remained of a collapsed empire. In World War 1, it was on the winning side but you only have to look at this map to realise how insignificant its actual contribution was. The only time the US Army did make a significant contribution was at the Battle of the St, Quentin Canal which left the German high command staring into the abyss of defeat and even then that significant contribution could have as easily been made by the British and Australian divisions the two American divisions were fighting alongside.
In World War 2 the United States did make a significant contribution by destroying the Luftwaffe and supplying the Soviet Union with raw materials and Studebaker US6 trucks, but the Soviet Union gutted the German army and scared the Japanese army out of the war before going on to most likely scupper American plans for world hegemony. World War 2 was probably the closest the Americans have ever come to understanding how to do war but then, probably through hubris they forgot.
The so-called Cold War, an American construct, was over before the United States even came up with the idea.
The Korean War was a bust although Americans might not think so.
The Vietnam War was also a bust though there are now some dumb Americans who believe they actually won it.
The Afghan Civil War has pretty muck been a bust for the Americans. In contrast, the Soviet Union wisely bailed out of it.
The American-Iraq war has pretty much a bust bearing in mind that the war GHWB launched against Iraq is still on-going having been continued through the WJC and GWB into the Obama administrations.
The American-Syrian War is not exactly going well for the twats in Washington particularly with the latest fuck up at Deir Ezzr
As I said, I'm hard put to see that the US has won any wars except for police actions like Grenada. And even then because of the overwhelming power of its military it loses ever time it goes to war on the moral plane.
Americans do not know how to do war and even when they start to understand that they get the explanation wrong.
However, they seem to know how to organize putsches and coup (spend large quantities of money bribing people) so perhaps they should stick to those.

Posted by: blowback | Sep 18, 2016 6:51:45 AM | 163

The US are making Syrians/Russians pay a price for insisting the Syrian people alone should decide who leads them. War hawks in the US want this. In an interview with Charlie Rose that aired on the 8th of August 2016 Michael Morell [former head of the CIA] and prospective Clinton appointee called for acts of aggression against a troika of powers – namely Syria, Iran and Russia:

Morell: “We need to make the Iranians pay a price in Syria. We need to make the Russians pay a price.”

Rose: “We make them pay the price by killing Russians and killing Iranians?”

Morell: “Yes, covertly… Here’s the other thing I want to do: I want to go after those things that Assad sees as his personal power base; I want to scare Assad.”
John [the singing canary] McCain said recently that any US aggression in Syria would not be challenged by Russia "they will not act". This is a serious game of chicken which the US seem content to engage in.

Posted by: harrylaw | Sep 18, 2016 7:25:05 AM | 164

james | Sep 18, 2016 4:20:37 AM | 148

@109 blowback quote addressed to yonatan "v) You know this how?" yonatan has access to russian media and possibly more), while it appears you don't.. i believe they speak russian and i doubt that you do.

Sorry james but I'll wait for yonatan's reply. There are many other people who have access to Russian language media. I would guess that this comes from the Russian military because they're probably operating the most advanced and capable radar inside Syria and if they thought it was significant then they have the means to make that known in the English language media but there is nothing.
However, there is some chatter among commentators at Veterans Today but I wouldn't take that too seriously.
So far the most important question hasn't been answered even though it drove Samantha Powers into a fit of apoplexy arrogance and stupidity(she really is fucking amateur), and that is the one from Vitaly Churkin about why the USG suddenly decided to support the SAA after so many years of doing nothing

Posted by: blowback | Sep 18, 2016 7:28:01 AM | 165

blowback | Sep 18, 2016 6:51:45 AM | 162

Oh, I think Usians (which Americans? North, South, Central or Canadian?) know how to do war. What is not understood, is to end a conflict brings stability, mostly; but Usians don't want stability and are invested in chaos, forever, everywhere except on home turf; which they have firmly under control.
We have a front row seat to that U.S. strategy in Syria. Russia has been the perfect mirror to illustrate that very policy.
Russia's dilemma is how to be the foil to that policy without starting WWIII; they, by no means, underestimate the insanity of the neo-cons...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Sep 18, 2016 7:30:24 AM | 166

@162 bb

I pretty much agree with what you say above ... but the US has dominated the scene economically, where the 'action' really is, if not on the battlefield, and it has caused immeasurable suffering, death, devastation, and destruction outside its own borders. The 'contest' is not in chest-pounding - in war - but in domination, and the US has done that. Is still doing that, for how much longer exactly is anyone's guess. But that is the problem, according to me. Not whether the US is 'good' at war.

There is nothing remotely 'honorable' about war to me. The whole enterprise is a perversion and a criminal waste of life and life's resources. There are no winners, only diminished survivors.

@162 seems much different than your other posts in that they were trying to make plausible the fake 'oops' behind this and other US massacres ... inevitable 'collateral damage' along the long, long winding road to total dominance. I guess 162 is in a sense Yet Another Shot At That, taking the incompetence tack? 'The US is incompetent'/'the US meant well' are the two most usual tacks taken in its defense ...

Your diction in 162 seems to me to raise the possibility that you are not an American, which I had assumed you were from your defense of the US Wehrmacht and your seeming intimate knowledge of American weaponry ... but are you a fellow 'Anglo' who's just bought the 'new' 5-eyed view of empire? The background of your analysis seems to me to be ... imperialism, that's the way it is. Someone 'has to do it'.

I don't buy that. I don't buy that things have to be as they 'always have been'. In fact with 7+ billion of us now, and both feet firmly in the Anthropocene, things cannot possibly be as they always have been. Things must change, or what follows will be a profound diminishment of 'life as we knew it'.

The US has not come around to that view. It is not alone in that stance, but it is the most destructive in its recalcitrance. That's what I think is at the basis of 'our problem'. The people who think they own the world cannot imagine themselves in different circumstances, and so will do anything to 'conserve' their extravagant way of life. The suffering of whole peoples and nations means nothing to them. They are deaf, dumb, and blind to the 'side effects' - from their point of view - of their actions, of their very 'way of life'. That's what's driving these wars, the US - and the other Western "elites'" - inability to come to terms with change. They are trying to 'conserve' the profligate world order in which they - in their profound minority - are the chief beneficiaries.

All of this is not happening by 'accident'. They know just what they are doing. They have no self-restraint. They must be defeated. I have hope that they will be. We'll see what happens, or some of us will. The Syrians and their supporters are fighting the 'good fight' along whatever dimensions they are forced to. It's not so much that I am on their side as it is that they are on mine, and I am grateful.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 18, 2016 7:57:28 AM | 167

Russia's interests on Syria is, no or delay pipeline of gas from either Qatar or Iran to the EU.

Reconstruction of Syrian infrastructure NOW our the near future would be bad for Russia.

Why no cuibono analysis on Russia?

Posted by: ThatDamnGood | Sep 18, 2016 8:02:53 AM | 168

Stop looking for heroes, least of all casting Putin as one.

Posted by: ThatDamnGood | Sep 18, 2016 8:05:01 AM | 169

@167 tdg

While I think that Russia is in the gas business, I don't think that is the reason Russia is Syria. Russia is in Syria because she knows that the USA - the neo-cons - are coming to get her, and she choses to fight them now, in Syria, and especially to defeat their most virulent proxy - Wahabism, to which all of Central Asia is vulnerable - before the neo-cons bring it on home to them. Someone said that the Russians have had enough of the West marching into Russia, and of having to fight the West's wars in their own homeland, and I think there's something there. Cui bono? Russia benefits if it can stop the US/NATO neo-con dominated Anschluss outside of Russia.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 18, 2016 8:14:50 AM | 170

@168 tdg

No one is looking for heroes, although we all admire people, like the Syrians and the Russians, who are able to stand and deliver when the time comes. We do disparage the anti-heroes, though. Those for whom 'it all' is not enough, who will never stop at anything in their blind quest for more. I say 'we' because you do not say whom it is you are addressing. This's really just my answer to your questions/exhortations.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 18, 2016 8:20:30 AM | 171

The coverup continues:

Powers claims the move by RUssia to bring the strike before the UN was a Russian 'stunt'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8sHzxILZMk

She is the perfect epitomy of the state of the US.

Posted by: Yonatan | Sep 18, 2016 8:33:11 AM | 172

Finally ISIS got its air force.
Poor Syrian people, who needs Russia's help.

Posted by: Frantic | Sep 18, 2016 8:40:15 AM | 173

When the obvious is staring you in the face and you can accept it, well...
Expect more blinking/winking from Russia.

Once again.
Russia's interests on Syria is, no or delay pipeline of gas from either Qatar or Iran to the EU.
Reconstruction of Syrian infrastructure NOW or the near future would be bad for Russia.

Posted by: ThatDamnGood | Sep 18, 2016 8:49:54 AM | 174

@ b 134
Thanks for highlighting SP's "performance" --

Vile is Samantha Powers’ true character. Irredeemable, “She has no shame.”

Russia’s FM Spokeswoman Strikes Back at US Envoy to UN Over Comment on Syria

https://sputniknews.com/russia/20160918/1045434084/russia-us-spokeswoman.html

"Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova advised American UN envoy Samantha Power to go to Syria to see how people were surviving in the war-torn country and realize what “shame” really is.

Samantha Power had earlier said that the Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson should be "embarrassed" for issuing a statement suggesting that the airstrike indicated that the US was complicit in trying to help Daesh.

On her Facebook page, Zakharova wrote that, instead of rubbing shoulders with al-Nusra Front terrorists and the so-called “moderate opposition” in Syria, Power should go there to meet ordinary Syrians who are still alive “despite the almost six-year-old bloody experiment being staged on them with Washington’s active participation.”
Zakharova added that she has been regularly communicating with members of the Syrian opposition, with orphans, who come to rest and receive medical treatment in Russia, and with journalists. She invited Power to travel to Syria and even promised to pay for the trip."

“Have no fear. With me by your side, nobody will harm you. You will have things to remember and, besides, you will have a chance to learn what ‘shame’ means,” she wrote.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I am not surprised. Powers follows only days after Barack Obama said Putin was like Saddam Hussein.

Continued on this path, Cold War 2 may just go hot.

Posted by: likklemore | Sep 18, 2016 8:58:59 AM | 175

Churkin said at the UN.. the US did nothing when ISIS was marching 100 miles to take over Palmyra, but all of a sudden it decided to help Syrian troops in a battle against ISIS. Can anyone believe it attacked ISIS to help Syrian troops?

Posted by: harrylaw | Sep 18, 2016 9:00:12 AM | 176

Russian Foreign Ministry: US strike on Syrian Army borders between negligence & assisting ISIS – Moscow


Russian Foreign Ministry said in an official statement released today that the US airstrikes on the Syrian Army positions near the eastern city of Deir ez-Zor borders between "gross negligence" and "direct assistance" to ISIS terror group.

“The coalition pilots’ actions - if they, as we hope, were not ordered by Washington – were on the edge between gross negligence and direct assistance to Islamic State terrorists,” the ministry’s statement said.


So, what happened at the UNSC? just the Power/Churkin show outside the actual meeting? and then everyone went home? or what?

Posted by: jfl | Sep 18, 2016 9:01:19 AM | 177

@jfl176
The UN is powerless. Look at the fate of Palestine. Fat pigs from Tel Aviv are unpunished.

Posted by: hmm | Sep 18, 2016 9:25:50 AM | 178

astonishing!

since US Ambassador Ford's fomenting of death squads in Daraa in 2011 up until today's illegal presence of US forces on the ground and in the air over Syria,

...and there are people who want to discuss the possibility that the Americans mistakenly bombed the Syrian Arab Army?

astonishing!

Posted by: john | Sep 18, 2016 9:38:00 AM | 179

Here is Alexander Mercouris giving his take on the strike. He says it is the Pentagon's effort to stop the agreement.

http://theduran.com/as-moscow-complains-about-us-foot-dragging-washingtons-throws-a-tantrum-bombs-syrian-troops-and-helps-isis/

Posted by: Peaches and Apples | Sep 18, 2016 9:45:37 AM | 180

john | Sep 18, 2016 9:38:00 AM | 178

Yes, thanks for the perspective, which often gets lost in the insanity.
Astonishing indeed, not.
Hubris rules this narrative; lead by the U.S..
Russia has a huge decision to make on how to handle the U.S.'s unbridled aggression against Russia. At some point Russia may just have to directly retaliate to test how far the U.S. is willing to go. I think Russia will not allow much more of the U.S. nonsense in Syria...

Posted by: V. Arnold | Sep 18, 2016 9:53:42 AM | 181

V. Arnold says:

At some point Russia may just have to directly retaliate to test how far the U.S. is willing to go

yeah, at which point all the Russia bashing pays big dividends when the masses rally behind the troops. USA! USA!

Posted by: john | Sep 18, 2016 10:23:34 AM | 182

I understand not wanting to risk ww3 and all, but if the Russian Federation needs to have its political interests respected, now might be a good time to load a dozen or so bardges with cargo containers and move them as far down the Caspean as is legally possible, just to make the situation clear.

https://youtu.be/Ch2Rqte6XOs

Posted by: wwinsti | Sep 18, 2016 10:29:21 AM | 183

155;Ah,a little recognition of the anti Trump angle,as Trump and the Russians are now linked,and if the scum can get the American public to believe that Russia is the bad guy,it translates to Hell Bitch votes,or so they think.
But of course they are mistaken as usual.
What a bunch of losers,Obomba says to blacks;If you don't vote HB I will take it as a personal insult!Mein gott!And as someone noted,his final GA speech should invoke a walkout.Man, what a hollow idol.
Trumps campaign is now strengthened by the terrorist attacks in NYC,and NJ,as more and more Americans,despite the leviathan zioliars media,are more and more aware of the desperate need for a change in direction.
And the McClatchy? news guy whoop said Blumenthal iniated the email birther scandal will definitely help kill the Hell Bitch and her pathetic campaign from Hades.
And Trump calls out Gates!Haven't seen details(PW) but I love it!
HB says boycott fellow Americans;NC.sheesh.Really now.

Posted by: dahoit | Sep 18, 2016 10:42:49 AM | 184

@ 182(me)

..or barges, which are far more intimidating.

Posted by: wwinsti | Sep 18, 2016 10:47:11 AM | 185

Lifted from FB:

Steve Carter writes:
"I am a former Marine Forward Air Controller and I have called in plenty of air strikes and marking targets with mortars, artillery and naval gunfire. From what I remember about that job, bombs dont just fall from the sky and kill 80 people on accident. There has to be very detailed coordination and planning with units on the ground to get such an impressive body-count. It was no accident."

Posted by: x | Sep 18, 2016 10:55:18 AM | 186

It seems to me different factions within the globalist players are fighting for power, one supporting unknown CIA objectives, others supporting those of the pentagon. Hence Lavrov stating that as soon as an agreement is reached with Kerry, someone in authority in US immediately denigrates or repudiates it. Don't think anyone has been able to control the CIA or the pentagon since Jack Kennedy, who gave it his best shot and look what happened to him.

Posted by: Peaches and Apples | Sep 18, 2016 11:05:02 AM | 187


b | Sep 18, 2016 1:43:39 AM | 134
“I have never before seen such unprofessional, vile and childish performance as that of Power”

The juxtaposition of Churkin w/ Power is as informative as it is disgusting. Remember folks, in a Clinton WH this neo-liberal, zionist stunt-cunt is likely going to be in charge of DoS. Sorry for the c-word, “vile” is probably a better PC choice but unfortunately it doesn’t rhyme w/ “stunt.”

Power is absolutely livid that Churkin spoiled her Saturday nite out in NYC over such a small thing as the US attacking a sovereign government’s forces. She says it about 6 times. OK, if we did that we’ll . . . . investigate. End of story, now let’s get back to the Assad gasses his own people lies.

- - - -
Yeah, Right | Sep 18, 2016 4:46:05 AM | 156

Well, we don’t know exactly what RuF/IRI have up their sleeves. Putin has already demonstrated that he can throw a cruise missile 1500 km at 30 feet over the deck and cold cock the bad guys. Does Obama want to start WWIII on the eve of an election in which a complete moron is about to take the lead in the polls?

If I were Putin/Assad, I’d want to be the first to declare a NFZ. HRC is already on the record for saying she’s going to impose a NFZ if she gets elected. At least Assad has international law behind him. The only “right” Obama has is might, and that don’t play too well in the history books.

The first side to hollar No Fly Zone!! — you’ll know it’s time to stock up on non-perishables, water, and reefer-paper.

- - - -
harrylaw | Sep 18, 2016 7:25:05 AM | 163

I think Morell was dpty director of CIA and ACTING director, both under Obama. The distinction is important: acting director is a short-term gig and doesn’t require Congressional approval.

As a proponent of torture and extra-judicial killing, he would be a great fit for Trump. Also, note Power’s bullshit about Assad inventing the double-tap technique. That was actually the Bush administration and perfected by this dangerous bozo, Morell.

Posted by: Denis | Sep 18, 2016 11:17:19 AM | 188

High red alert. Like many I was doubtful of the latest C-F in Syria and the USA-R ‘accord’ particularly as it seemed the content was not available.

This attack definetly crosses a line, either in reality or as an event that the Russians cannot ignore (see Zharakova’s statement.) I agree with Feckless Left @ 4 (last gasp of an overstretched empire.. etc.). Second red alert, the US elections. If I believe or know that HRC, by extension Obama and the Dems are toast, and Trump is ‘set to win’ by a landslide, then the Dems and the Russians know that as well.

What we are seeing in the march to US 2016 election is the unravelling of the duopoly (good, in principle, for the public) but also the revelation of deeply corrupt circles at all high levels, mostly the Clinton Foundation (+ Benghazi, e-mails, and more, the role of the media, FBI, etc.) which also involves massive financial fraud and insider trading..; tip of the iceberg, more will revealed shortly. These supposedly ‘domestic scandals’ (actually concern the world) in an ‘electoral fight’ are linked to US actions in Syria. While at home the country is fracturing fast, devolving into …fill it in…and the PTB are floundering, it’s actions abroad are (imho) no longer under any kind of central or any control (no planned guide lines, policies, actions, are implemented with rigor), compare say Kerry to Powers (not that either are any use but you get the drift.) The whole US oligarch/kleptocrat class is hysterical with infighting and so can’t function even when potentially it ‘owns’ the upper hand.

How will they react? Several answers suggest themselves, some dire — the question is: Are the US PTB smart enough, self-protective enough, organised and cohesive enough, to e.g. let Trump win the election, which would allow for some cover-up, and team up with Russia against ISIS etc. -- Thus *de facto* abandoning alliance with KSA, Israel, Gulfies, though that might be masked for some time --, to put it the most plainly and leaving out many details?

Imho the answer is quite likely NO. So what happens next?

Posted by: Noirette | Sep 18, 2016 12:06:42 PM | 190

Ironic !!!

While we are focused on the tragic Syrian “Intentional” but said to be “Accidental” US bombing, it is being reported by the lead Internet Editor (Drudge) citing Vocativ that ISIS is celebrating the last night Dumpster bombings in (NYC) Manhattan and the stabbings in the Minnesota Mall.
http://www.vocativ.com/360127/isis-supporters-rush-to-celebrate-nyc-explosion/

~ ~ ~ ~
2nd time baby AQ/IS bites?

Lots of players here…and 50 days away from election date

(a) Could it be the babies are also very unhappy over the potential US/Russia collaboration?

(b) A pissed Saudi Arabia over the passage of the 9/11 bill --right of 9/11 victims to sue KSA. Obama has a pocket veto; if he does not sign the law stands. If he does veto, there are enough votes to over-ride. 09/23 DDD.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/296339-white-house-pressures-lawmakers-to-abandon-saudi-9-11-bill

Posted by: likklemore | Sep 18, 2016 12:18:03 PM | 191

the us use a10 warthog and f16 do great damage
israel do golan damage
al nusra
makes moves

terror on the streets of minnesota and new york
what timing
no mention of the syrian,hez,iranian or russian dead on bbc just muslim terror in usa.

what timing just like a spielberg drama.
it would seem the cells carl cameron talk of in those fox 911 reports are still active in the usa.
dancing israelite laughing at the goy

Posted by: cdrake | Sep 18, 2016 12:44:32 PM | 192

Apologies for an error above -- I thought (and still think) I saw a revised death count of 80, but now cannot find it, finding only the original 62. I expect (given the violence of an air strike) the death toll will rise, but cannot find that it has.

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Sep 18, 2016 12:47:04 PM | 193


Noirette | Sep 18, 2016 12:06:42 PM | 189

"If I believe or know that HRC, by extension Obama and the Dems are toast, and Trump is ‘set to win’ by a landslide, then the Dems and the Russians know that as well."

Right.

In March I predicted that the Dems would pull Hil off of the stage and run with Biden. Crazy as it seems, I'm stickin' with it.

Nate Silver now says if the polls don't improve for the Dems w/in a week, the election is lost. I'm going further: If Silver's graphic shows the lines for Hil & Trump crossing between now and Nov, Hil will have another "health event"
and "withdraw." The cross-point is now 12 points away.

Biden is still in the wings, unless Warren changes her mind and steps up he'll be the candidate and the world will breathe a sigh of relief as he landslides into the WH.

Posted by: Denis | Sep 18, 2016 1:03:11 PM | 194

USNATOISIS used last COH to regroup and attack. Same thing this time. Clues are everywhere. For example: The secret agreement. Like the TPP which criminal Democrat Obama (working now with the Republican criminal Kasich) has been tasked to get passed for Bayer/Monsanto, et al. If he doesn't get it done, Hillary/Kaine will do it.

The Globalist Plan for remapping the Middle East is clearly outlined in the Yinon Plan for Greater ISrael. This effort will continue apace without regard for time frames.

http://tinyurl.com/Seven-Countries-In-Five-Years

Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 18, 2016 1:09:29 PM | 195

Denis 193 Biden is still in the wings, unless Warren changes her mind and steps up he'll be the candidate and the world will breathe a sigh of relief as he landslides into the WH.

Biden's kid is milking the Ukraine. Joe Biden is a self-described Zionist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZvypFPscP8

Posted by: fast freddy | Sep 18, 2016 1:16:23 PM | 196

@171
Samantha Power - nothing but lies.

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 18, 2016 1:16:38 PM | 197

@192 60, 80, 100 does it matter that much?

Posted by: dh | Sep 18, 2016 1:16:51 PM | 198

171. I could be wrong, but was not warmongering bitch Power appointed to her position by Killary?

Posted by: Andoheb | Sep 18, 2016 1:29:04 PM | 199

What has Australia got to do with it?

In its strikes in Iraq and Syria, the Royal Australian Air Force follows strict rules of engagement designed to reduce the chances of innocents being killed. As reported in The Weekend Australian, the Australian Defence Force has strict processes for analysing intelligence that run separately to those of the US-led coalition.

If they are concerned about the legitimacy of a target, Australian officers can throw up a red card to abort a mission. That process will be a key focus of an investigation of the RAAF’s involvement in this botched attack.

...

The fog of war in Syria is generated by multiple simultaneous conflicts. The Assad regime is fighting a host of large and small rebel forces, the most dangerous of which is Islamic State. Then there is al-Qa’ida, feared and hated by the West since it carried out the September 11 attacks.

Fighting against those Islamic extremists are more “moderate” groups who are also fighting to topple Syria’s Bashar al-Assad.

Some of the moderates are backed by the US-led coalition of nations formed to help drive Islamic State, known in the region as Daesh, out of Iraq.

One theory is that the "US-backed moderates" on the ground triggered the air-strike.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 18, 2016 1:29:12 PM | 200

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