Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 16, 2016

Syria - CIA Vetted "Rebels" Chase U.S. Forces Out Of Town

According to the WSJ the U.S. agreed to join a further invasion of Syria by Turkey and its proxy forces:

The U.S. has agreed to send about 40 special-operations troops to work alongside Turkish forces to fight Islamic State in northern Syria, U.S. officials said.
...
The joint mission will take the forces east toward the northern Syrian town of Dabiq, a symbolically significant Islamic State stronghold. U.S. special-operations forces will operate as combat advisers and generally under the same guidelines as other special -operations forces are working inside Syria, U.S. officials said.
...
Ankara first proposed the idea of U.S. special -operations forces accompanying Turkish troops late last month as it planned a joint mission into Syria’s northern city of Jarabulus.

One can reasonably assume that the planned presence of U.S. forces amid a Turkish invasion has the sole purpose of deterring Russian or Syrian moves against it. With U.S. forces around the Russian command will have to think twice before bombing any Turkish advance beyond the borders of  their agreement with the Russians.

The deployment of some 40 U.S. special forces to Al Ra'i did not go well. The Turkish "Free Syrian Army" proxies threatened to kill the U.S. forces. They called them "unbelievers" and "crusader pigs" and the U.S. forces had to retreat under Turkish cover (video). Some FSA spokesperson later claimed that the dispute was over U.S. support for the Kurdish dominated SDF, which at times had fought against the FSA. Unconfirmed reports now say that the special forces are back in Al Ra'i after certain FSA groups were ordered out of the area. There are also reports claiming the U.S., after the special forces were chased out of town, "accidentally" bombed some FSA group in Al Ra'i. Ooops.

However, the hostile FSA forces will be around and U.S. Special Forces are obviously seen as their enemy. If the U.S. forces proceed together with the other FSA groups they will certainly have to watch their back at any and all times.

The Turkish supported sectarian "moderate" FSA groups are the very same groups the CIA has "vetted" and provided with TOW missiles and other weapons. But nobody should be astonished that such groups, driven by religious zeal, eventually turn on their sponsors. They have done so in each historic parallel one can think of.

The current ceasefire in Syria is already breaking down. U.S. media claim that Russia and Syria are blocking UN aid to the al-Qaeda ruled areas in east-Aleppo but other media say that the "rebels" are the ones threatening the convoys. In east-Aleppo al-Qaeda demonstrators held a rally (vid) against UN aid.

Russia says that the U.S. is trying to fudge on the terms of the ceasefire agreements and pushes the U.S. to publish the full accord. That is blocked by the State Department:

On Thursday, U.S. State Department spokesman Mark Toner told reporters in Washington that the full text of the deal worked out with Russia on the truce in Syria will not be made public. “It does deal with sensitive issues that we believe, if made public, could potentially be misused,” he said.

Translation: "It is more difficult to cheat on the agreement if the terms are public."

The U.S. supported opposition forces are using the ceasefire to prepare for new attacks on Hama and in the north of Aleppo city. I expect those to start at the beginning of next week. They will meet prepared defenses and ferocious attacks by Syrian and Russian air forces.

Posted by b on September 16, 2016 at 11:26 AM | Permalink

Comments

your title says it all... i just don't understand these 'moderate' terrorists... the usa and company gives them money, food and military supplies and they want to bite the hand that feeds them! the audacity!

Posted by: james | Sep 16, 2016 11:45:18 AM | 1

"It is more difficult to cheat on the agreement if the terms are public." - I think you nailed it on that line, b. I can only believe the US would support any ceasefire that gave an advantage to the Wahhabi forces with an end goal of dividing Syria into sectarian partitions that would prevent it from ever again being a) a cohesive force in the Mideast and b) an economically self-sufficient country that could provide sustenance for its people without outside aid. The US despises self-sufficient countries that can exercise any degree of political independence, regardless of their ideology.

Posted by: WorldBLee | Sep 16, 2016 11:46:15 AM | 2

US will never want peace in Syria, they want quagmire for Russia and Iran. They are never serious about ceasefire and will support terrorists who "attacked" on 9/11. We are against AQ but support them, we don't terrorism but we support them, we never like dictators but support them, we never torture but do it anyway, we never kill innocent but have killed millions, we will continue the same destructive path until oblivion.

Posted by: ChamCham | Sep 16, 2016 12:03:27 PM | 3

Kurds really fucked up. They probably got a lot of grand promises. I don't know how much worse things could go for them. It would take the deployment of an airborne division or something to stop the rolling up of rojava

Posted by: Cresty | Sep 16, 2016 12:05:45 PM | 4

If the US really wants to create an independent Kurdistan, it's time to hit the Turkey-backed Nusra/AlQaeda. They have no other choice now. Turkey or the Kurds.

Posted by: anonymous1242 | Sep 16, 2016 12:05:53 PM | 5

Russia needs to cut the crap. We all know the US is going to cheat and use these agreements to rearm jihadists. Why bother? The only thing that will ever count is a victory on the ground by the SAA and its allies. That is it. Stop wasting time and helping the enemy Putin.

Posted by: Alaric | Sep 16, 2016 12:07:05 PM | 6

@3

US will never want peace in Syria, they want quagmire for Russia

Russia is keenly aware of that but much more than Syria is at stake here. But this is the fact that many simply wish to ignore.

Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Sep 16, 2016 12:20:35 PM | 7

The FSA 'protest' vid from al Rai seemed kind of fake/staged to me. The other thing that struck me is that the camera head-chopper intentionally pointed the camera down towards the ground as the supposed SF guys drove past. Why would an angry head-chopper worry about protecting the identity of any U.S. SF guys if he hates them?

I'll have to go off the skeptical deep-end here and say the U.S. wanted the world to see this fake protest, but not it's SF guys. They're setting us up for some kind of false flag. I wonder how long it will be before we hear reports of U.S. troops being taken hostage by the Turk/FSA head-choppers and used as human shields.

Maybe have the fake or non-existent hostages taken to Aleppo so the U.S. can demand that Russia and Syria stop bombing head-chopper east Aleppo? Maybe have them dragged to al Bab so when Turkey annexes that city with its Turkomen head-choppers, the SAA and RuAF are screwed? I don't honestly think CENTCOM would actually use American SF guys like that, but if they falsely claim some were taken hostage, then who can say any different? Heck, hire a few pale-looking American or European jihadis, clean them up and give them U.S. uniforms and have them play the part. A fake execution of the fake hostages would be a great excuse for a U.S. invasion/bombing. Yes, it's come to that point.

From the Russian side, the only thing that has changed for them in the last month or so is that 1) the SAA is winning, and 2) Russia has thrown a lot more effort into their intelligence gathering. If the U.S. is increasingly unwelcome and untrusted by, well - everyone - in Syria, then their crappy ground intelligence is even getting worse (sparse and inaccurate) day by day. I don't know if you could say Russia is winning the intel war, but it's got to at least be a level playing field now.

The U.S. Jordanian Ops Room was just taken over by the Russians according to some accounts - Jordan no longer trusts the U.S. And the third military air base the U.S. was planning on building in Hasaka is in trouble because Arab militia that quit the SDF are fighting with the Kurds there. Al Hasaka might be in danger from those ex-SDF Arab militias as well. Even the American volunteers with the Kurds think the U.S. screwed the Kurds. Nobody likes us!

From my armchair, I would have to say the Russians are not losing anything with this farce of a ceasefire. They knew exactly how it would play out and are busy watching the rebels prepare. An ounce of intel is worth a pound of RDX. In the mean time, the Russians are just sitting back watching CENTCOM's and the CIA's efforts fall apart by their own doing. If the U.S. resorts to fake hostages, then you know thinks are going really badly for them in Syria.

Israel is ready for some act of desperation in the south since their DMZ head-chopper support plans backfired, so I'm expecting some fireworks down there pretty soon as well. They are really getting fidgety with the number of Hezbollah lining up outside of Quneitra and Daara for some housecleaning. Interesting times.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Sep 16, 2016 12:52:57 PM | 8

Lots of combat happening during this limited ceasefire according to SyrPers latest. Each ceasefire todate has resulted in great loss of face by the Outlaw US Empire, thus the Russian demand for its full publication. Overall, as we approach the first anniversary of Russia's intervention, the forces of resistance have the upper hand and are turning terrorists into fertilizer at an ever increasing rate, and the qualitative difference for both the SAA and Iraqi Army is substantial compared with a year ago. By this time next year, it's most likely that Syria and Iraq will again be in control of their entire national territory, with the likely exception of Zionist occupied Golan, while the Kurds and Turks will continue their war, but within Turkey.

Although it will lack an appearance by Putin, I look forward to Lavrov's upcoming UN speech, which will likely be another devastating critique of the Outlaw US Empire.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 16, 2016 12:55:03 PM | 9

SmoothieX12 @7 "much more than Syria is at stake here". Too true, the Israelis support the Islamists because if they came to power in Damascus, Hezbollah would face the screaming freaks invading from the east and the Israeli "Chosen" 'nut jobs' invading from the south. Happily the Iranians and Russians have figured this out, and are aware that they would be next. And I didn't even mention the pipe lines.

Posted by: harrylaw | Sep 16, 2016 1:10:44 PM | 10

"One can reasonably assume that the planned presence of U.S. forces amid a Turkish invasion has the sole purpose of deterring Russian or Syrian moves against it. With U.S. forces around the Russian command will have to think twice before bombing any Turkish advance beyond the borders of their agreement with the Russians."

I don't think there's anything reasonable about that assumption.
If Russia has set geographical boundaries on Turkish co-operation in Syria, and Turks (or AmeriKKKans pretending to be Turks) cross one of those boundaries, Russia will have no option but to warn them of the breach and then bomb the crap out of them if they fail to reverse their error.
It sounds like Full Spectrum Yankee Dumbinence to me.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 16, 2016 1:13:07 PM | 11

That ceasefire had the advantage of putting the US troops face to face with their 'proteges' the FSA. The idea promoted by Russia is to separate the 'moderate' FSA from the ISIS fighters and Al Nusra who have stayed disguised in FSA.
It seems that the process has finally started
The fake FSA are probably the ones who attacked and insulted the US soldiers and were later kicked out and 'bombed'. They have probably join the ISIS fighters who quietly left Jarabulus.
It seems that the FSA is been stripped from its major fighting allies ISIS and Al Nusra and in order to survive will have to obey their two masters: The Turks and the USA.
If this is successful in Jarabulus and Al Rai, it will be extended else where like North of Aleppo.
The wild card is the 'real ' intentions of the Turks and the USA. If they want to take advantage of this process to 'occupy' North Aleppo, they will be met by Russia and Syrian bombing.
Erdogan can't afford anymore to antagonize the Russians and my opinion is that he will renounce to his ambition in Aleppo and would be contented that his allies in the Syrian opposition will be part of the political negotiations and the separatist Kurds excluded.
The USA's intentions are more dubious.
What is clear is the americans ( and their saudi allies) don't want a victory for Bashar al Assad and the Russians in Aleppo. They will act as spoilers until the end...

Posted by: virgile | Sep 16, 2016 1:54:10 PM | 12

Regarding Medic... Heard from Alternate News, the Syrian government have hospitals in terrorists controlled areas and also provide FREE medicine as reported from a Danish News team but did not published it. MSM Lies, lies and more lies.

Audio here:

https://www.spreaker.com/user/acrnetwork

Posted by: Jack Smith | Sep 16, 2016 1:55:07 PM | 13

@10 But Russia keeps drawing this out. I've said it before - would Russia respond with violence to FSA incursions with 'imbedded' American Special Forces? They might not even need to be present, but USA can claim them to be.
USA might 'accidentally' bomb SAA and Shi'a troops and then quickly unfold some R2P b.s. to expand it. Maybe Israel would join in from the south.

These are tactics that Washington could employ.

What would Russia's response be to such aggression? Does Russia have a red line? Putin has had a COH to nowhere once, and now he's trying it again. Seems like a bad move to me

Posted by: bbbb | Sep 16, 2016 1:58:37 PM | 14

@10, harrylaw

And I didn't even mention the pipe lines.

You also didn't mention Ukraine and her descend into chaos, you also forgot NATO on Russia's doorsteps, volatility in Afghanistan which will (not if, but when) spill into Russia's underbelly (Karimov's death is another unknown), the necessity to complete formation of Eurasian economic (and even military-political) structures, to complete Russia's re-industrialization and re-configuring her pipes towards the East and the list goes on and on, and on. Once Syria is viewed in this context and against the background of Russia's respectable but by far not infinite resources, many things, militarily and diplomatically, become much clearer and do not require making generalizations based on couple of operational or even tactical points. The game is huge here. Now add here (one among very many similar recent observations) this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/graham-e-fuller/america-global-dominance-over_b_12011012.html

and picture becomes crystal clear.

Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Sep 16, 2016 1:59:23 PM | 15

@bbbb

USA might 'accidentally' bomb SAA and Shi'a troops and then quickly unfold some R2P b.s. to expand it.

The first thing I read today in the morning news was that US has trouble mustering resources for Syria. This is not surprising if to consider US military posture as of lately. In order to do R2P in the present situation in Syria one has to have an appropriate size force. I could be wrong, but I don't think that US has this force. Plus, of course, if needed Russia can fairly fast augment her forces in Syria. Per Israel, I don't know, but Bibi and VVP are really good friends (if that is possible between heads of states) and I am sure they discussed a large number of contingencies during Bibi's several recent visits to Moscow.

Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Sep 16, 2016 2:26:04 PM | 16

If this an example of how well the CIA et al can control the FSA then this ceasefire isn't worth the paper it is written on. Of course there are a multitude of reasons that this war against the Syrian nation and people will continue until the facts on the ground make the reality one that can't be ignored and a political settlement becomes the only remaining option. That being said, with all the twists and turns and possibly escalations ahead the end to this conflict is still a fair ways off with all the dangers that one of the major players may create an ultimatum situation that nobody wants, especially post the U.S. election.

Posted by: BRF | Sep 16, 2016 2:30:54 PM | 17

Hoarsewhisperer says:

It sounds like Full Spectrum Yankee Dumbinence to me

an affliction better described as chronic war.

Posted by: john | Sep 16, 2016 2:40:19 PM | 18

PIV @ 8

As an American approaching advanced age and uneducated in world affairs even by US standards, I find understanding the last decade of Syrian history daunting but very illuminating. I truly appreciate MoA posts, and the enlightening commentators such as PavIV.

Last February I was expecting Russia to behave like the US and respond to the US provocations by setting up a 'rat-line' to Yemen or some similar activity. Half a year later, I'm beginning to see the patient response of Russia to the USA operation. Russia, militarily weaker than the US, is ceding in negotiation as they classically cede territory when they are attacked. Russia seems to get played in each agreement, but one-by-one, the USA is losing its 'friends' through deceit, while Russia gains trust by keeping its promises.

It's a slow diplomatic grind, but Russia and its allies grow while the US/KSA/Israel sinks lower in its cesspit of deceit.

Posted by: Enrico Malatesta | Sep 16, 2016 2:52:52 PM | 19

So either the Russians are complete imbeciles, or else they are playing the longer game, aware the US will cheat by rearming 'select' terror militia (those who will be culled), while removing friendly terrorists and their speacial forces handlers to safer locales, all by 'secret' agreement.

Or, cut the bullshit, everyone is working together, with different objectives.

Posted by: C I eh? | Sep 16, 2016 3:12:37 PM | 20

@8 paveway.. excellent comments and considerations.. thanks.. i think russia has to be aware of all this too.

Posted by: james | Sep 16, 2016 3:25:54 PM | 21

Do Americans care if it turns out that we are fighting ourselves?

As long as chaos is the result, probably not. In the American view, chaos is good for a variety of reasons. First, it destabilizes the area making it difficult to develop any stability by who ever it is Americans wish to destabilize and thus attempt to control. Second, instability (almost by definition) requires that all sides be armed. Selling arms is the number one goal of the military-industrial-complex ... the American citizens pay the bill for arms shipments whether they are sold or provided to so-called allies. Third, conventional winning is never the goal. Instability is ...

The US has always had a simple system for domination. It was developed, even in the pre constitutional era (the so-called Indian Wars) in which the steps were to curry favor, arm and then send in the military. It worked then, and it still works.

While some may say this is done behind the scenes, I believe it has always been tacitly supported by Americans. It isn't ignorance or brainwashing - it is complicity. The national motto should be 'by taking we get' ...

When B stated: "The Turkish supported sectarian "moderate" FSA groups are the very same groups the CIA has "vetted" and provided with TOW missiles and other weapons" ... or we are backing both sides. It has never mattered whether the surrogates of the CIA were fighting against the surrogates of the Pentagon. As long as chaos occurs, the Americans believe they are backing the winning side ... because the Americans ARE backing the winner no matter which side wins.

Posted by: rg the lg | Sep 16, 2016 3:37:29 PM | 22

It sure is complicated.

The FSA resistance in al-Ra'y was certainly to do with a Sunni Arab refusal to accept a link between the Kurds of Rojava and those of Afrin. The territory in between is occupied by Sunni Arabs. It's a hot issue at the moment. Allow such a link, and the Sunni Arabs will be dead. The Americans are incidental spectators.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 16, 2016 3:46:13 PM | 23

Or rather the US are seen as associated with the Kurds.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 16, 2016 3:57:38 PM | 24

The Turkish invaders of Syria was sitting ducks for Russian airpower, and still are....but what, but nothing happened. Slow moving tanks against Russian air and gound to ground missiles would've been an easy victory, and send a signal to the world that shit like this won't go down.
Didn't happen. Not even a warning shot. It's Putin that shown far greater weakness here.
Tiptoeing around Western war crime propaganda And inviting their greatest enemy ( as well as all oh humanities ) into Syria. People still can't admit how pathetic that was. It's why I keep bringing it up

Posted by: tom | Sep 16, 2016 4:05:09 PM | 25

@24

The Turkish invaders of Syria was sitting ducks for Russian airpower, and still are

It has to be one of the soundest operational judgements I ever encountered in my life;-))

Posted by: SmoothieX12 | Sep 16, 2016 4:11:31 PM | 26

Thanks for the good article. Two points I see a bit differently:

'One can reasonably assume that the planned presence of U.S. forces amid a Turkish invasion has the sole purpose of deterring Russian or Syrian moves against it.'
Possible. But if, as Paveway notes, US intel is getting worse by the day and they have no one they can trust on the ground, having first-hand accounts may well also be a major motivation.

'Translation (of the insistence on non-publication): "It is more difficult to cheat on the agreement if the terms are public."'
Different translation: "We don't want the American public to know that we've made substantial concessions to Russia two months before the elections."

I'm not entirely pessimistic about the ceasefire. The Turkish invasion has changed the picture quite a bit, and Ankara knows that if it doesn't stick to the agreement with Moscow, NATO won't come to the rescue. They made that mistake once.

Posted by: smuks | Sep 16, 2016 4:16:48 PM | 27

Lavrov: Russia hopes no one in US trying to shield terrorists in Syria

I could have written the script. I mean, so could Putin. So could Lavrov. I know why they keep bothering, but if they're a tenth as sick of this horse shit as I am, they deserve medals and monuments. The psychopaths are NOT going to bomb their own troops, or cease them firing,
until there is no alternative, and there will always be an alternative. Their most foolproof tactic is to wear you down. That's what wins them everything, all the time
(nines)

Posted by: john | Sep 16, 2016 4:29:30 PM | 28

With the southern breach firmly resealed and the Castello road currently alternating back and forth between SAA and Russian Marine (but never rebel) control, isn't the battle for Aleppo city effectively over? The militants inside eastern Aleppo won't be resupplied. They can surrender now or they can do it in 2 or 3 months, but they will surrender. Unless something new is added to the equation it seems the end of this siege is a foregone conclusion.

Posted by: Kuma | Sep 16, 2016 4:44:23 PM | 29

@28 Agreed, unless Turkey steers south which would be folly..

Posted by: Lozion | Sep 16, 2016 4:52:45 PM | 30

There's mention of this on zerohedge:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-16/us-troops-forced-flee-town-after-us-backed-rebels-threaten-slaughter-them

In the article are a few videos, one of which includes the following taunts:

"Dogs, agents of America," one man can be heard to say in Arabic, while others chant "They are crusaders and infidels", "Down with America", "'Get out you pigs" and "They are coming to Syria to occupy it"

Maybe, just maybe, people are slowing figuring out ZATO's M.O.

Posted by: xLemming | Sep 16, 2016 4:58:02 PM | 31

re 28

The idea of Jeremy Bowen (BBC correspondent) is that East Aleppo is too big to be swallowed just like that.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 16, 2016 4:58:58 PM | 32

http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/09/11/episode-152-sunday-wire-911-from-ground-zero-to-syria-with-guests-tom-duggan-jay-dyer-shawn-helton/ @48
Tom Duggan, a real journalist who's spent most of the last two weeks in Aleppo. Extraordinary. . . as if we didn't already admire the Syrian people.

UN aid? He says the Syrian govt continues to send aid to EAST Aleppo too-- cuz the citizens don't want to go to the terrorists for anything they must have. Doctors & medicine are trucked in. Fresh produce is cheaper than in Damascus.
--
I say again: Russia is there as a US proxy force, so that the war doesn't end too soon. An end isn't wanted till destruction is more total, including the damage by refugees to European polities & until "terrorist attacks" have continued the pretext for destruction of the remnants of European democracy. Mixing peoples together destroys the very basis of the nation state.

The US had all the Turkish border patriot missiles removed so that Russia could come in, then US intell somehow "didn't notice" the Russians' materiel, etc arriving. There were headlines about "the great intelligence failure". Just in case there was any doubt about the US opposing the Russian presence we were treated to many threatening editorials, including one by Zbig Brezinski. An American general even told us how the Russian 'secret weapon' inhibited American actions (as if any general wd do that).

When it came time for Russia to increase her forces the US & UK were the first to give credibility to the "ISIS bombing" of a Russian passenger plane over Sinai. They confirmed that ISIS or al qaeda was behind it days before the Russians themselves, thus helping the Russians build domestic PR to escalate their forces. But if one looks skeptically at the Sinai "crash" site one sees at once that it is a hoax. Even the heaviest parts, the engines, make no impact crater.

We were first told it crashed in the mountains, but the Egyptian truckers were lazy and unloaded the wrecked plane parts in the desert. The usual confusing, many-alternative-stories technique was used. We were so busy choosing between an ISIS bomb, an Israeli shoot-down close to their war games, a remote-controlled takeover in the air, and others that we forgot to consider whether it happened at all.

There is cooperation among them, and such rivalry as exists is only for the division of the spoils.

Posted by: Penelope | Sep 16, 2016 6:12:00 PM | 33

I don't think the US needs a secret agreement in order to cheat on it. It's done just fine so far cheating on public agreements. I agree with those who suppose, as all analysts have supposed for days now, that the secrecy is to cover terms that the US genuinely doesn't want disclosed.

So while many eyes are locked onto the ground in Syria, another battle continues in New York, at the UN. Russia agreed to keep the terms secret, but the US didn't honor even those terms that we knew about, so now we have this pressure regarding the UN to make the terms public. How much of a blackmail threat is this against the US? We don't know. Time may tell. It's not certain if this play is over yet.

So the battle rages not only on the ground in Syria - where the resistance allies control Aleppo and aid is being delivered by Russians to Syrians and, let's face it, the war is won, but with many battles left yet to clean up all the national sovereignty.

The battle rages also around the world and at the UN. For one crazy moment I thought maybe Russia had it this time, the document that forces the US to abandon all cover for its terrorists - who will then be killed as is proper - and also to stand revealed at the UN as a sponsor of terrorism. Maybe. We shall have to wait for some decent analysis from New York, and perhaps even - one should always have a dream - the unveiling of those secret terms.

But if not now, then another day yet to come. Russia will keep trying to get what she wants, which is a US forced into compliance with international law. This will happen.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 16, 2016 7:16:33 PM | 34

Penelope #32

Russia is there as a US proxy force

That's really rich stuff, parallel universe as a matter of fact...

Posted by: Mad Marx | Sep 16, 2016 7:44:21 PM | 35

UN Security Council cancels Syria meeting after US refuses to release ceasefire details

Posted by: N | Sep 16, 2016 8:05:23 PM | 36

Was the following information a part of the secret elements of the ceasefire?

US Gives Russia Data About Location of 'Moderate Rebels' in Syria for First Time

The US handed Russia data on the location of militant opposition groups operating in Syria for the first time, special representative of the Russian Defense Ministry Alexander Zorin told journalists on Friday. [...] Earlier in the day the Russian Foreign Ministry said that the list of moderate Syrian opposition groups the United States provided to Russia contains formations that are linked to the Nusra Front militant group.

I could see it happening that the US will be labeled an unwitting sponsor of terrorism. It will hide behind a smokescreen of incompetence and bluster. But the label will stick.

The whole purpose of Russia on the ground in Syria has been to separate out who is to be destroyed, from those whom nations and especially the US will vouch for and remove from the theater. Astonishing that Russia's patience had not even begun to wear thin, and now we see why. She covers far more ground backing the US into legal agreements and having the US default than she ever could by destroying everything moving, and inviting backlash and enduring grudges. But she will get those separations established, to the last terrorist, to the ultimate grain of sand. And it seems, pretty soon.

Who was the diplomat who said once that negotiating with the Russians was like buying the same horse twice? I would not want to be in a contract with them that I couldn't perform on.

Posted by: Grieved | Sep 16, 2016 8:10:48 PM | 37

Don't trust sputnik news. They make it all up ...

UN Security Council cancels Syria meeting after US refuses to release ceasefire details


The United Nations Security Council cancelled their Syria meeting for Saturday after the United States refused to share its ceasefire data with their Russian counterparts.

Russia has expressed immense frustration with the U.S. regarding their failure to control the rebel forces in Syria, Tass News Agency reported on Friday.

The Russian Ministry of Defense was recently displeased with the U.S.' failure to convince the rebel groups in Aleppo to adhere to the ceasefire agreement.

As of now, humanitarian aid is blocked from entering the eastern neighborhoods of Aleppo city, thanks in large part to the rebel forces blocking the roadway in the northwestern sector of the provincial capital.


The US has lost 'control' of their brooms fetching water in Syria. As @3 CC points out they're pleased with the result anyway. They'll fight the war in the ME to the last resident thereof.

I think - I hope, I pray? - that those who've been paying only peripheral attention to the US' wars - those folks in the US, the EU, and worldwide - are finally beginning to catch on. Russia's attempts to bring the US in to share the laurels of terrorist defeat each time they're on the verge of eliminating IS/al-CIAduh's forces in Syria are beginning to make the US' unwillingness to see IS/al-CIAduh defeated unmaskable. Even to those still begging to be deceived.

But on the ground the brooms keep marching with their buckets. Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the GCC are rigid fundamentalists unable to change their plan. They're stickin' to it. Next time - this time? - the conflict after the 'cessation of hostilities' may be decisive.

It remains to be seen if Turkey has anything more than a US flag mixed in with its IS/al-CIAduh/Turkmen assassins in northern Syria. PW's analysis may be correct. Maybe there's nothing there but a flag. The flag would be enough to enrage the IS/al-CIAduh/Turkmen assassins, and they can safely kill a flag, or allow Turkey to evacuate it. The chimerical presence of the USA in Syria. The real proxies it's funded - using Saudi/GCC funds - trained, and armed - using Turkey to do so - are out of their control. The US is improvising in the 'air' layer, just a few feet above the ground in Syria. Delivering death, devastation, destruction, and always deceit. DD&D are enough for the US. Its mode of warfare is like cancer, or flesh-eating bacteria.

The conflict after the cessation of hostilities this time may be decisive. I hope that it is, and that the cancerous/FEB infested tissue is finally excised. But please note : the Nobel Peace Prize Laureate has destroyed yet another country and killed yet another half million people. The USA are not the 'good guys', no matter what color glasses you put on.

Posted by: jfl | Sep 16, 2016 9:23:42 PM | 38

"We were first told it crashed in the mountains, but the Egyptian truckers were lazy and unloaded the wrecked plane parts in the desert."

this is the most stupid allegation , which in turn nullify your position as amateur analyst , where all your comment are suspect because of the lack of understanding on how stuff works in real world..

Posted by: milomilo | Sep 16, 2016 11:55:42 PM | 39

Russia will keep trying to get what she wants, which is a US forced into compliance with international law. -- Grieved
Grieved, I know you are aware that the purpose of international law is to guard the sovereignty of nations. And, some say, the rights of individuals-- although this runs the risk of being used for R2P, right to protect, by nefarious parties. And of course the international law that you refer to is that against the initiation of force. I don't see that there is anything other than 'force majeur' to make the US oligarchs stop using the countries they control to initiate force. Personally I find it ludicrous that entire nations should be mobilized against each other for the ambitions of a few thousand international oligarchs. Only their control of information makes this possible. Which is why it is our responsibility to broaden our information base, which always involves refusing to suppress what doesn't fit our current ideas.

The purpose of much of what the UN does is to LIMIT national sovereignty, towards the goal of producing a New World Order of a few regions-- perhaps nominally governed by the UN, but really by the UN's controllers, the same global oligarchs. The Rockefellers didn't donate the land and play such an active role in the founding of the UN in order to champion the sovereignty of nations. Another lever of control over it is that the US taxpayer pays more than 1/5 of its budget. It is impossible to describe briefly the many horrors of UN plans, projects, commissions and treaties.

International law has been in the hands of the oligarchs for so long and toward such evil purpose that I think it worthwhile to remind everyone that it is a mistake to cloak either the UN or international law in hallowed tones. Law, whether international or domestic, is being used to strip people everywhere of rights and protections.

Further, Russia has given up important aspects of its sovereignty, in violation of its citizens' rights, through membership in the IMF, a UN organization. Russia has for years given up nationally-controlled banking and currency, and therefore the ability to finance her own industrial development. She's given up important sovereign rights of her citizens to control trade policy through membership in the UN's WTO. And much more.

Posted by: Penelope | Sep 17, 2016 12:25:55 AM | 40

@38 milomilo.. more then a few here have come to a similar conclusion..

Posted by: james | Sep 17, 2016 12:49:11 AM | 41

Re: Posted by: smuks | Sep 16, 2016 4:16:48 PM | 26

The Turkish invasion has changed the picture quite a bit, and Ankara knows that if it doesn't stick to the agreement with Moscow, NATO won't come to the rescue. They made that mistake once.

What do you mean made that mistake? And when did NATO not come to the Turkish rescue?

When did someone attack Turkey? I can't recall Turkey being militarily assaulted? Unless you're referring to ISIS bombings throughout Turkey? Or Kurdish/PKK bombings which have been going on for decades?

You've lost me.

Or unless you're referring instead to unbridled Turkish aggression? Why would NATO jump on board with that? Under what understanding would NATO allow itself to support unbridled NATO aggression? I'm not aware of any agreements that force NATO to join in with any unbridled Turkish aggressive adventurism??

Is that perchance what you're getting at?

Posted by: Julian | Sep 17, 2016 2:06:32 AM | 42

(TASS) The United States has handed over to Russia the data on the location of US-controlled opposition units in Syria, the Russian Defense Ministry said Friday.

The ministry however noted that the documents received from Pentagon proved that no separation of moderate opposition from the Jabhat al-Nusra terrorist group had been done.

The chief of Russia’s center for reconciliation of the warring parties in Syria, Vladimir Savchenko, said that Syria’s ‘moderate opposition’ was using the regime of cessation of activities to regroup its forces.

He said a total of 39 episodes of shelling at positions of Syrian government troops and self-defense units, and populated localities were reported in Syria in the past day.

"As many as 19 shelling episodes were reported from the province of Aleppo (the city came under shelling 16 times), eight episodes of shelling were reported from mountainous Latakia, six - from the province of Damascus, five - from Hama, and one - from Homs," he said.

"The development of the situation proves that the ‘moderate opposition’ once again is using the ceasefire regime to restore its combat capabilities and regroup its forces in the provinces of Aleppo, Hama and Homs," he said.

According to Savchenko, terrorist groups are showing increased activity. Thus, in violation of the agreement, opposition forces have not begun to pull out their weapons from the Castello road.

"So far, there is no information about a checkpoint at the Castello road’s easternmost end to let humanitarian cargoes reach quarters controlled by militants," Savchenko noted.

The Russian reconciliation center on Thursday made several attempts to get in touch with the U.S. side using the direct exchange line but these attempts were to no avail. Hence, a written notification was referred to the American side to inform it of ‘moderate opposition’ groups’ non-fulfilment of the terms of the deal.

Posted by: Zu26 | Sep 17, 2016 2:33:04 AM | 43

Enrico Malatesta @ 18

I think you sum it up nicely.
By always sticking to its word Russia builds credibility and trust.
By being sly and deceitful and full of propaganda the USA trashes it's reputation.

The world (educated laypeople, politicians, bureaucrats, academics, diplomats, journalists) start to see this.
They may have to pay lip service to the Hegemon but their hearts and minds start leaning towards Russia.

Edgar Cayce (if you believe that stuff) prophesied that Russia would provide hope for freedom to the world. Made no sense when he said it during early Soviet era. Making sense now.

Posted by: Anon17Sep | Sep 17, 2016 8:33:12 AM | 44

The United Shits is trying to pretend there's a three-way war going on in Syria: Evil ISIS vs Evil Assad Regime vs Kind Hearted Moderates. I can't think of another example of a 3-way war in history. Anyone else? Dubya put it well: You're with us or you're with the terrorists.

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 17, 2016 12:36:14 PM | 45

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-idUSKCN11N062
6 white helmets in this piece

Russia and Syrian rebels cast doubt over the prospects for an increasingly shaky five-day-old ceasefire on Saturday, with Moscow saying the situation was worsening and a senior insurgent warning that the truce "will not hold out".

The ceasefire is the result of an agreement between Russia, which backs Syrian President Bashar al-Assad with air power, and the United States, which supports some rebel groups. It has reduced the fighting since coming into effect on Monday.

However, some violence has persisted across Syria, and promised aid deliveries to besieged areas remain blocked, with both sides accusing the other of bad faith.

Russia's Defence Ministry said conditions in Syria were deteriorating, adding that it believed the ceasefire had been breached 199 times by rebels and saying the United States would be responsible if it were to collapse.

Earlier on Saturday, Russian President Vladimir Putin cast doubt over Washington's commitment to the deal, but also said he believed that securing a ceasefire was a common goal for the two countries, which both agreed to extend it on Friday.

Insurgents say they only reluctantly accepted the initial deal, which they believe is skewed against them, because it could relieve the dire humanitarian situation in besieged areas they control, and blamed Russia for undermining the truce.

"The truce, as we have warned, and we told the (U.S.) State Department - will not hold out," the rebel official said, pointing to the continued presence of a U.N. aid convoy at the Turkish border awaiting permission to travel to Aleppo.

"It is not possible for the party (Russia) that wages war against a people to strive to achieve a truce, as it is also not possible for it to be a sponsor of this agreement while it bombs night and day, while on the other side, the other party - America - has the role of spectator," he said.

Moscow has itself accused rebels of breaking the truce and said Washington needs to do more to make them abide by its terms, including separating from the jihadist Jabhat Fateh al-Sham, which only broke formal allegiance to al Qaeda in July.

Posted by: okie farmer | Sep 17, 2016 12:47:56 PM | 46

Two thoughts here

-Follow the money

-It is all about the money

Pentagramagon misplaces 6.5 trillion dollars (6,500,000,000,000.00.)

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/audit-reveals-pentagon-6-5-trillion/


Same as it ever was

Posted by: ALberto | Sep 17, 2016 12:51:43 PM | 47

I can't think of another example of a 3-way war in history.
30 years' war, where there were lots of sides, maybe. I don't think three sides is real; it's more multi-side. That's very Middle Eastern, happened a lot in pre-modern times, changing alliances all the time.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 17, 2016 1:19:04 PM | 48

sorry, the blockquotes went wrong, but you've got the idea. I'm quoting ruralito @44, then it's me.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 17, 2016 1:21:20 PM | 49

@48, Protestant vs Catholic, two sides, in essence. Us Marxists see it as the inevitable conflict between Merchant Capital, based on trade, roughly Protestant; and Aristocratic wealth, based on land ownership, roughly Catholic. Of course, allies flip sides, depending on the safety of their own skins. Others put in their oars, then withdraw. No argument there.

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 17, 2016 1:50:34 PM | 50

*We Marxists, of course.

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 17, 2016 1:52:38 PM | 51

@32 Penelope

You are basically correct, though I would describe it differently. The USA is no more an independent decision maker than is V. Putin. The Russian force in Syria is an NWO proxy.

It's hard for most readers to accept their 'reality' is public relations kabuki. Many, many others come here to reinforce the confusion neccessary to mask our total disenfrancisement.

Posted by: C I eh? | Sep 17, 2016 1:59:33 PM | 52

@52, nothing wrong with order, and why not have it world-wide? Long as EVERYBODY agrees to follow mutually acceptable rules, what's the problem? But, unfortunately, as we all know, some insist on their own "exceptions".

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 17, 2016 2:23:12 PM | 53

RT reporting US coalition bombed SAA in Deir-Al-Zor, killing 62.

Posted by: spudski | Sep 17, 2016 2:54:26 PM | 54

Sorry, missed new thread.

Posted by: spudski | Sep 17, 2016 2:55:41 PM | 55

@Julian 42

The Turkish army shot down the Russian plane, thinking that it would get NATO support in any ensuing escalation. It didn't, and the downing proved to be a fatal error, allowing Russia to install SAM in Syria.

Posted by: smuks | Sep 17, 2016 2:56:44 PM | 56

@50

The problem with the Marxist view of history is that its summaries of any particular event or time period start to break down the second you zoom in to examine the specific details. The most extreme example of this is the French Revolution, where it was in fact liberal nobles who were a huge driving force for reform, rather than any kind of proletarian uprising.

I'm pretty sure no reputable historian of the Thirty Years War would agree that it was fundamentally an economic conflict. By the end it wasn't even a Protestant vs Catholic conflict; it had become a giant clusterfuck of different factions and leaders each pursuing their own goals.

Posted by: Kuma | Sep 17, 2016 4:04:01 PM | 57

@50, I never mentioned proles. A revolutionary class doesn't have to be proles. The merchant bankers and traders that pulled Europe out of its Medieval slumber were a revolutionary class.

By "reputable historian" you must mean those historians whose stipends depend on producing glowing reports, or, at least ambiguous ones, of their paymasters.

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 17, 2016 4:22:08 PM | 58

@57, I mean

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 17, 2016 4:23:12 PM | 59

@58

No, I mean the ones whose work is well researched and properly sourced.

Posted by: Kuma | Sep 17, 2016 5:41:29 PM | 60

@ruralito #53

nothing wrong with order, and why not have it world-wide?

Spoken like a true zionist.

Who makes the rules?

Order without transparency is called fascism; or capitalism; or scientism; or marxism; or... just plain zionism.

Please understand, I want no part of your plans for my future. Even if you're not a bonafide sociopath, your obliviousness to your own fallibility makes you dangerous in the extreme.

Proles don't want revolution. They only want to be left alone.

Posted by: C I eh? | Sep 17, 2016 5:55:38 PM | 61

@61, you don't know me very well. I'd feel hurt if it weren't so ludicrous. But, in fact, there's only one planet and one people who inhabit it. They deserve peaceful, orderly lives. Is that not so?

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 17, 2016 6:05:45 PM | 62

@60, name one

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 17, 2016 6:06:22 PM | 63

Well researched? Properly sourced? Gee, like, I don't know, Karl Marx?

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 17, 2016 6:25:29 PM | 64

Proles just wanna have fu-un! Yeh, the lumpen. "Jes leave us alone, dadgummit, down here in the holler, so we can snort meth and beat our chillun."

Posted by: ruralito | Sep 17, 2016 6:31:14 PM | 65

Marcel Sardo ‏@marcelsardo 25m25 minutes ago
Get this: Samantha Power has the brazenness to call today's #UNSC Meeting summoned by Russia a - quote: "STUNT"…
#DeirEzzor

Posted by: brian | Sep 17, 2016 8:47:44 PM | 66

@64

There's a whole lot of garbage in Marx; his history of money is pure crap, his labor theory of value is almost certainly wrong. I very much doubt any anthropologists would agree with his central premise that there is some sort of inherent, eternal struggle between the elite and labor, across all civilizations and all time periods.

Posted by: Kuma | Sep 17, 2016 9:31:41 PM | 67

the buck stops where?!

Jeffrey D. Sachs ‏@JeffDSachs 39m39 minutes ago
US bombing kills 60 Syrian soldiers and then US tries to blame Russia. Absolutely appalling. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/17/dozens-of--soldiers-dead-in-accidental--us-led-coalition-strike/

Posted by: brian | Sep 17, 2016 9:52:43 PM | 68

@66/68 brian... samantha powers is just being the idiot she has always been.. that she speaks at the un for the usa really speaks to how disturbing the usa is at present... putting a raving lunatic in this position seems in keeping...

Posted by: james | Sep 17, 2016 10:02:13 PM | 69

KUMA -you certainly don't understand Marx and Marxism at all'

Posted by: ashley albanese | Sep 18, 2016 3:53:44 AM | 70

milomilo & James, It's gravity. Heavy objects that fall a long distance make holes in the sand.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3297871/Russian-passenger-plane-220-tourists-board-missing-Egypt-Fears-aircraft-crashed-Sinai-desert.html close ups

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/616547/Ross-Clark-comment-Islamic-state?_ga=1.66755054.1719026965.1474088239 an engine. Is it even the right one?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/616380/Russian-plane-crash-British-security-experts-travel-advice?_ga=1.70482768.1719026965.1474088239 The sand easily takes tire tracks, but not the slightest indentation under the plane parts

Where's the rest of the plane? We've been told the rest of the wreckage is at a location some distance away, but not shown a single picture of it that I can find.

Posted by: Penelope | Sep 18, 2016 5:13:30 PM | 71

C I eh? @ 52, Thanks, I agree that neither the US, Israel, EU, UK, etc is really the entity behind global events. It's an international cabal bent upon world rule. The Chinese Li family, the Triads and the Eight Immortals families have merely struggled to join the NWO, notwithstanding occasional theatre to the contrary. Putin's "multipolarity" is only the regionalism under the "UN" (really the oligarchs) that comprises the NWO that they are building.

Posted by: Penelope | Sep 18, 2016 5:14:32 PM | 72

"@52, nothing wrong with order, and why not have it world-wide? Long as EVERYBODY agrees to follow mutually acceptable rules, what's the problem? But, unfortunately, as we all know, some insist on their own "exceptions".
Posted by: ruralito | Sep 17, 2016 2:23:12 PM | 53

ruralito, there is a difference between peace and order. The EU now has economic "order"; the dollar/Fed/IMF system imposes even broader economic "order". But this sort of order brings poverty & suicide. The NWO will impose total "order" as to every aspect of individual human life. We want peace and freedom. Not the oligarchs idea of "order" so that we can be harnessed to their projects. No possibility exists of freedom or democracy in world govt. All the international organizations are run by the oligarchs. Surely you know that, no?

We all share your disgust at the initiation of force by the West-- especially the US & Israel, who have been chosen by the international cabal to carry out murder & destruction as a step in bringing NWO to fruition.

Posted by: Penelope | Sep 18, 2016 5:15:48 PM | 73

hi annie

whatsup

Posted by: annie | Sep 20, 2016 12:18:31 AM | 74

73 penelope

peace and order.is that what we have.at what price.overpopulation and industrial pollution are no more a greenie joke to be laughed at
yet leaders of industrialized nations do nothing.the future i see is a yellow sky.not blue but yellow.the tipping point is coming and that will make it all the more easier to dispose of the "peace and order" brigade

Posted by: annie | Sep 20, 2016 12:28:46 AM | 75

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