Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 30, 2016

New U.S. "Offer" To Cooperate With Russia in Syria Is Deceptive Nonsense

In February the U.S. and Russia agreed upon a ceasefire in Syria. Al-Qaeda in Syria (aka Jabhat a-Nusra) and the Islamic State were explicitly excluded from it. In April al-Qaeda, Ahrar al Sham and a number of U.S. supported "moderate rebels" attacked Syrian government forces south of Aleppo. They broke the ceasefire and Syrian government forces, after taking heavy losses, responded.

The Russian government has since urged the U.S. to push its proxy forces to re-accept the ceasefire. It demands, rightfully, that the U.S. supported "moderates" separate themselves from al-Qaeda so that al-Qaeda can be attacked without further collateral damage. The U.S. rejects that so far claiming that the rebels are too "intermingled" with al-Qaeda. A separation is thereby not possible, it says. At the same time it demands that Russia and Syria refrain from attacking al-Qaeda because that would hit those "moderates" that fall under the ceasefire.

That is hogwash and clearly designed to protect al-Qaeda. After months of pledging with the U.S., Russia finally said so and relaunched attacks against the "intermingled" groups.

Now suddenly the U.S. is seeing the light and is offering military cooperation against al-Qaeda in Syria. That is - if you believe this rumor of a new U.S. "offer", reported, suspiciously, by a wannabe neocon writer on the Washington Post opinion pages:

The Obama administration has proposed a new agreement on Syria to the Russian government that would deepen military cooperation between the two countries against some terrorists in exchange for Russia getting the Assad regime to stop bombing U.S.-supported rebels.

The United States transmitted the text of the proposed agreement to the Russian government on Monday after weeks of negotiations and internal Obama administration deliberations, an administration official told me. The crux of the deal is a U.S. promise to join forces with the Russian air force to share targeting and coordinate an expanded bombing campaign against Jabhat al-Nusra, al-Qaeda’s branch in Syria, which is primarily fighting the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

The deal is allegedly supported by Obama and Secretary of State Kerry. That is somewhat curious. Kerry is the one who demanded a harsher line against Syria and Russia and was the point man in accusing the Russian of bombing the al-Qaeda associated "moderates".

In exchange [for some cooperation], the Russians would agree to pressure the Assad regime to stop bombing certain Syrian rebel groups the United States does not consider terrorists. The United States would not give Russia the exact locations of these groups, under the proposal, but would specify geographic zones that would be safe from the Assad regime’s aerial assaults.

"Specify geographic zones" without specifics is pretty much nonsense. No one will take such an offer serious. What if the zone is specified as "Idleb governate" or "east Aleppo" or some other wide area where al-Qaeda and the rebels live and fight side by side? The Russians and Syrian would get practically nothing but they would have to stop attack those who attack them?

Even the hawkish former U.S. ambassador to Syria, Robert Ford, says that this idea is bullshit:

There’s not enough reliable intelligence to distinguish Jabhat al-Nusra targets from the other rebel groups they often live near, Ford said. And even if the Syrians agreed not to bomb certain zones, there would be no way to stop Jabhat al-Nusra and other groups from moving around to adjust.

Moscow and Damascus will laugh at such an "offer".

The U.S. is indeed protecting al-Qaeda because al-Qaeda, not U.S. supported "moderates, is the only force which keeps the Syrian government side from winning. The Zionist lobby confirms this:

Because most Jabhat al-Nusra fighters are fighting Assad, if the plan succeeds, Assad will be in a much better position. Meanwhile, the other Sunni Arab groups that are left fighting Assad will be in a much weaker position, said Andrew Tabler, senior fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. The strategy could allow Assad to capture Aleppo, which would be a huge victory for his side in the civil war.

“If the U.S. and Russia open up on Jabhat al-Nusra, that changes the dynamics on the ground in Aleppo and Idlib,” he said. “It would definitely benefit the Assad regime ..."

The plan, if it was correctly "leaked" to the WaPo author, is nothing but additional delaying and obfuscation. The U.S. has no interest in ending the fighting in Syria. It wants to keep the conflict going as long as possible to "bleed" Syrian, Iran and Russia as much as it can.

The Russian government should finally accept that and end the conflict by solely military means.

Posted by b on June 30, 2016 at 12:42 PM | Permalink

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Sorry but it's impossible to end this type of conflict by military means - even if all the terrorists are killed more will just arrive from abroad although a guaranteed one-way ticket to hell might work.
The way to stop it is to persuade that however much any body spends on it, Assad is not going. I think with the recent terrorist attack in Istanbul, Turkey is beginning to understand that the cost of regime change in Syria is too high. With the United States protecting the Gulfies, it's harder for Putin to persuade the Gulfies that it's costing them to much but continued failure of the attacks launched by the various terrorist groups they fund and support will eventually do that. As for the United States, that is the tough nut to crack. Perhaps Putin should start going over the heads of the borgistas and appealing directly to the American people but I don't really think that will work. So he is left with persuading the Europeans that their refugee problem is the fault of the idiots in Washington.

Posted by: blowback | Jun 30, 2016 1:26:10 PM | 1

aren't shooting down these trial balloons fun? thanks b... don't worry, the cooks at neo con central will cook up something that might get by the radar, but maybe this isn't one of them... perhaps the idea people need to take a pay cut? lol..

Posted by: james | Jun 30, 2016 1:30:22 PM | 2

Meanwhile in the land of fantasy ...

UNDOF’s work extended by six-months

In other action today, the Council unanimously adopted resolution 2294 (2016), under which it decided to renew the mandate of the UN Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) in the Golan for a period of six months, until 31 December 2016.

By the terms of that text, the Council strongly condemned the continued fighting in the area of separation, and called on all parties to the Syrian domestic conflict to cease military operations in the UNDOF area of operations and to respect international humanitarian law.

Underlining that there should be no military activity of the armed opposition groups in the area of separation, the Council urged Member States to convey strongly to the Syrian armed opposition groups in UNDOF’s area of operations to halt all activities that endanger UN peacekeepers on the ground, and to accord the UN personnel on the ground the freedom to carry out their mandate safely and securely.

UNDOF was established by the Security Council to monitor the ceasefire between Syria and Israel after their 1973 war. Since then, the Observer Force has remained in the area to maintain the ceasefire and to supervise the implementation of the disengagement agreement.

source - http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=54357#.V3VYiKIewyU

I did not realize there was a ceasefire in effect at Golan Heights. Apparently only Syria has to abide by these rules while the Zionist Entity is free to act as they please.

Golan is Syria's.

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 30, 2016 1:41:24 PM | 3

I suspect that Russia will have to draw a line in the sand before adopting a solely military approach. Assad and Putin should announce that the Yankees and their French, Brit and other Eurotrash "Assad must go" friends are worse than useless when it comes to "fighting ter'rists." They should also state that Syria's ISIS problem isn't nearly as serious a threat as the Yankees make out, and, were it not for incoherent Yankee policies and eerie ineptitude, IsUS would have been licked last year.
"You've got 48/72 hours to get out of Syria and we'll interpret refusal to do so as an intention to actively support ter'rism on Syrian soil, and will act accordingly."

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 30, 2016 2:08:32 PM | 4

It is not clear to me whether the net effect of the USG in Syria has added to or subtracted from Assad's stability -- discounting for purposes of argument any role CIA played in the 2011 "peaceful revolt" against Assad.

Clearly Assad and Putin are tolerating USG ops in Syria. Is that b/c they are too afraid of the USG to demand they get out or b/c the damage USG has done to ISIS is worth tolerating the violations of Syrian sovereignty? The fact that Putin has not sic'd any Su-35s or S-400 missiles on GoY F-16s to prevent or retaliate against repeated Government of Yisrael (GoY) attacks on SAA positions makes me think Assad/Putin are afraid of pushing the Syrian sovereignty issue.

Any analysis of who will do what when has to take into account first and foremost what GoY will do in response to any action Assad/Putin take. This whole dust-up is about neutralizing Syria so GoY can attack IRI.

Eventually a line will be drawn by someone. Either it will be the USG/GoY imposing a no-fly or Assad enforcing Syrian sovereignty w/ the backing of Russia, Iran, and Hezzbollah. And, whichever line is drawn, at some point Syria will have to defend its borders and its troops against GoY F-16s, or maybe the new F-35s. When that first GoY fighter crashes and burns, it will be Katie bar the door.

Putin is a blowhard and a bullshitter, but he's also smart. He knows he would not last a week in an all out war against USG/Eu/NATO/GoY and the Gulf States. He would be a fool to put his new Russian Empire on the line for Assad if push comes to shove, but he might if IRI is the real target of USG/GoY belligerence and if he could get China's backing.

Posted by: Denis | Jun 30, 2016 2:25:46 PM | 5

This might be an overly optimistic assessment but it looks like there is a real rapprochement going on now between Turkey and Russia. This has been going on for some time now behind the scenes but was only publicly revealed early this week. The terror attack at the Istanbul airport is just another reminder to the Turks that their policy in Syria is not working. Maybe they are starting to understand that supporting Al qaida and ISIS forces in Syria was an unwise move?

It looks like saner voices inside Turkish military and foreign services are starting to get a hearing within the Turkish government. They see making peace with Russia is the way forward. There is no way that Russia will restore trade and tourist relations (not to mention the gas pipeline) with Turkey if they continue to support the ISIS and Al qaida rebels inside Syria. I think this means that Turkey will soon close the logistics supply line leading from Turkey into Aleppo. If so, that means the anti-Assad forces in that province will be isolated from resupply and can be liquidated using purely military means by the R+6 forces. And that would mean another humiliating defeat of US aggression in the Middle East.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 30, 2016 2:28:09 PM | 6

...
Clearly Assad and Putin are tolerating USG ops in Syria. Is that b/c they are too afraid of the USG to demand they get out or b/c the damage USG has done to ISIS is worth tolerating the violations of Syrian sovereignty?
...
Posted by: Denis | Jun 30, 2016 2:25:46 PM | 5

The Yankees' anti-IsUS efforts are a sick joke.
It's important NEVER to make an idle threat. Any threat MUST be a promise.
And I Love it when someone calls Putin an AmeriKKKan-ish bullshitter and blowhard.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 30, 2016 3:00:29 PM | 7

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 30, 2016 2:28:09 PM | 6

I hope you're right but I'm skeptical. In the same breath as the "reaching out to Russia" pantomime, Turkey also (over)reached out to "Israel" and promised not to interfere with the Jewish blockade of, and Living Death campaign in, Gaza. No amount of fake sincerity could conceal the outright malevolence of the "Israel" promise.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 30, 2016 3:24:00 PM | 8

The don't attack x or y zones in Syria is also BS for the breakup plan for Syria. It is exactly why the idiotic and moronic plan of Putin inviting the US in is such a fucking mass murderous disaster. The US proxies which are not to be attacked are also break up zones. Zones of resistance that will be forever be launching pads for new attacks.

And where is this defeatist crap come from - that a US approved "Syrian" military opposition cannot be attacked by the Syrians or the Russians ? LUNACY. If the Russians are so resistant to attack a US supported opposing army, then why the fuck invite the US in. One attack recently does not make firm ground.

Assad and other Syrian military leaders ( I'm Sure ) desperately wanted to reject the fake peace plans, but the idiotic cowardly Putin went along with it, and how many people were slaughtered in Syria because of it.

Posted by: tom | Jun 30, 2016 3:39:04 PM | 9

Hoarsewhisperer @20

Denis has been outed

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/e0/e0004a28afb3efd9d627c7489367eff91ee879a351a77d26e6c4c63751e9dde0.jpg

Posted by: Yonatan | Jun 30, 2016 3:52:55 PM | 10

We need more links/sources in the second half of yr piece, B.

Posted by: Helena | Jun 30, 2016 3:59:23 PM | 11

@1 Blowback

The government could win on the ground with a deeper commitment from Iran and Russia, especially once isis is rolled up. There are only so many supply lines, and lots of people may be willing to die for a cause, but they won't be if it becomes hopeless. See the Sri Lankan government's campaign against the Tamil Tigers.

The catch is that has to be done soon, before the neocons retake the white house. And before anyone objects, they're clearly not getting everything they want at present, as we see from their public tantrums.

Posted by: Cresty | Jun 30, 2016 4:07:45 PM | 12

The Iraqis have re-run the infamous 'Highway of Death' - this time with US (proxy) forces on the receiving end near Fallujah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITo1ddOrY34

Posted by: Yonatan | Jun 30, 2016 4:09:54 PM | 13

This 9-minute video, showing Israeli Jewish MPs’ reaction to a speech by Haneen Zoabi yesterday, offers a very revealing insight into how Israel’s tribal democracy works. And it isn’t pretty.

https://youtu.be/2QVW2fOMVjQ

All the exchanges in this video are in Hebrew, but that doesn’t really matter. You don’t need to understand the language to understand what is going on. One Jewish MP, Oren Hazan, of Netanyahu’s Likud party, heckles Zoabi non-stop for more than four minutes, with the Speaker doing nothing more than politely asking him to calm down and refrain from interrupting.

When Zoabi accuses the soldiers of “murder” at about 4.30-min into the video, all hell breaks loose. A dozen or more Jewish MPs rush to the podium and start circling Zoabi like a pack of baying hyenas. By this stage, when Zoabi is being physically threatened by a number of MPs in the parliament chamber, you might think it would be time for some of them to be forcefully ejected, if only to indicate that this subversion of the democratic process will not be tolerated. But not a bit of it. They are treated with kid gloves.

The Knesset guards simply try to block the violent Jewish MPs from reaching the single Palestinian MP in their sights, presumably fearful that were she to be physically assaulted that might make headline news and make Israel look bad.

Posted by: ALAN | Jun 30, 2016 4:14:45 PM | 14

Where can I find a short description of the type of Russian military commitment that would be necessary to end the war?
Why is Russia not drowning the SAA-axis with TOW-equivalents?

Posted by: Arren | Jun 30, 2016 4:24:09 PM | 15

Falling on deaf ears ...

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/

Has a series of articles on why the situation in Syria, though dire, is only a tip of the iceberg.

Especially: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/06/29/powerful-interest-groups-have-triumphed-over-the-rule-of-law/

I encourage you all to read these essays that PCR has aggregated.
You won't ... at least most of you ... because you've already decided whose side who is on. More's the pity.

The issue isn't really the overseas wars ... it is the war at home that has already been lost. Thus, tilting at windmills may make you feel better, but it is an illusion.

The malignant overlords, the masters of your universe, have already said that a majority vote is irrelevant (BREXIT) and that the people who made Trump the repug candidate can simply and safely be ignored. The same is being done on the demo side.

Until those who rule no longer rule, you're wasting your breath. Two endings: either we revolt or they blow us to s**t with nukes. Your choice ... .

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 30, 2016 5:09:20 PM | 16

July 30, 2016 You cannot make this stuff up ...


700 vehicle (ISIS)column allowed to leave Fallujah and waved on through several check points. Iraqi aircraft pilot video (check out the comments section) ...

"footage released by iraqi air
force shows isis convoy before being hit and scattered.
the US-led coalition refused to bomb them according to IQAF officials"

source - http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c55_1467269514#LUk7oZgcOwCmZMxC.99

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 30, 2016 5:13:46 PM | 17

Thanks B for keeping up with the Hypocrisy of the west . ""Specify geographic zones" without specifics is pretty much nonsense." ya think ! ... Your pieces are getting to e hard to take on a daily basis .Hypocrisy is always not a pretty sight especially when the finger is pointing back at ones self ....Could it be that what is needed to counteract the cognitive dissonance is a mirror that does a double reverse for western talking heads to stand in front of for a few hours to see exactly what is going on ?

From Trump to Brexit with a little of Johnson spin thrown into the mix ,I think we might not ever hit the ground again . Politically aware eh !

Posted by: Terry | Jun 30, 2016 5:27:08 PM | 18

some posts are way off thread, so much so that one has to question the motive of the person/s posting!

Posted by: james | Jun 30, 2016 5:31:30 PM | 19

What? ...


"A large Daesh column has been annihilated west of Falldushi, in the Fallujah area; another success for the Iraqi forces and their Fallujah offensive.

Attack helicopters used rockets and missiles to destroy the vehicles and inflict heavy manpower losses on the headchoppers.

However, there appears to be some uncertainty as to who carried out this attack – the Iraqi Army claims that they had to do the job themselves because the US refused."

source - http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/06/30/video-air-strike-wipes-out-daesh-column-near-fallujah/

Posted by: ALberto | Jun 30, 2016 5:31:40 PM | 20

@17, strangely searching for a youtube using isis + convoy + iqaf will garner many hits. Unless, you filter for update, in which case the number of hits will be zero.

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 30, 2016 6:04:38 PM | 21

Any country that openly fight ISIS or stop funding will be gratified by terrorist attacks. For years , Turkey have been cautious in not antagonizing ISIS, it even helped them with weapons. When the USA pressed the Turks to allow Western countries to use Incirlik to bomb ISIS. Turkey being part of NATO could not refused. It as since become the target of terrorist attacks..

ISIS wants to hit the USA badly. It is now doing it at a low intensity using some local amateur extremists ( Orlando). While the GCC countries are supposed to be in the 'coalition' none of them has actively participated in the bombing and are secretly funding the ISIS fighters to be on the safe side.
The trouble is that some countries like Qatar and Kuwait are also helping Al Nusra, the enemy of ISIS. Therefore they are exposed to terrorist retaliation.
As for Saudi Arabia, it is sending enough money to ISIS under the pretext on preventing Shias to take over Syria and Irak to be seen by ISIS as a loyal provider. Therefore Saudi Arabia believes it is immune and contrary to Turkey has no international obligation to fight ISIS.

If ever Saudi Arabia is forced to stop funding ISIS, it will be exposed to terrorist acts. Also if ISIS fails in Syria and Iraq, it may turn against Saudi Arabia for not providing enough support.
The disintegration of ISIS in Iraq and Syria may a create a violent backlash in the GCC starting by Kuwait, the UAE and Qatar and followed by Saudi Arabia.
Like Turkey, the Gulf countries are now trapped in their own game that may bring them long term insecurity and instability.

Posted by: virgile | Jun 30, 2016 6:12:44 PM | 22

@6 Toivos #8 hoarse

It seems absurd to take Erdogan seriously at all in any area. Putin's acceptance of his "apology" is opaque to me.

Erdogan seems to have apologized to Israel for attempts to defy Israel's blockade of Gaza as well, and castigated token forces that tried to do so for not asking his permission beforehand.

@13 Yonatan @17 @20 AL

Apparently US supplies delivered to ISIS by its "moderate" ratline were exposed in the wake of the operation.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 30, 2016 6:14:36 PM | 23

Oh wait, Yonaton's found one. Guess you got to search in Arabic ;). Panem et circenses done right!

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 30, 2016 6:15:47 PM | 24

ALberto@20 - This wasn't an ISIS military movement - ISIS is fleeing to Jordan/Syria with their families and everything they own as the Iraqis push them up the Euphrates and out to the west of Anbar.

From Daesh Daily:

"...South. There were several media reports about a major and violent clash in Ameriyat Al-Falluja in which Daesh took heavy casualties, but they were to some extent conflicting.

An Ameriyat Al-Falluja subdistrict council member says Iraqi forces issued a curfew in the subdistrict after Daesh terrorists sneaked into liberated areas...

...The council member also said Iraqi forces trapped 450 Daesh terrorists, including notable commanders, in the Al-Hassi, Albu Assi, and Albu Aifan areas in Ameriyat Al-Falluja. However, Iraqi forces somehow withdrew from a nearby area, allowing the terrorists to escape. When local officials contacted the military commanders they said the convoys should not be attacked because they were carrying families. So Coalition warplanes didn’t target the convoy; however, IAA helicopters targeted the last 10 vehicles of the convoy, killing “tens” of Daesh terrorists. [Maalomah]

The IAA Commander says a Daesh convoy of more than 700 vehicles, retreating from the Al-Hassi area, was attacked by the IAA, destroying more than 130 vehicles, and killing “tens” of Daesh terrorists. He says most of the Daesh members who were retreating were foreigner who refused to surrender to Iraqi forces. The Joint Operations Command (JOC) spokesman says Iraqi forces started an operation to catch the Daesh terrorists who escaped to the desert. [Mada]

The Anbar Operations Commander’s version says his troops trapped 2,000 Daesh terrorists and 500 vehicles in the Al-Hassi area south of Falluja. However, a Daesh construction shovel managed to open the road for the terrorists and more than 400 vehicles sneaked from the Al-Hassi area toward the desert in the west. He says Iraqi forces attacked them, destroying the vehicles, and killing a large number of terrorists. He says Daesh had attacked a military position in Al-Salam intersection south of Falluja yesterday. Iraqi forces stopped the attack, destroying more than 20 vehicles. [Sumaria] In a separate statement, the Commander said Iraqi forces killed “tens” of Daesh terrorists and destroyed 300 vehicles while the terrorists were trying to flee from areas south of Falluja. [Ghad]

The spokesman of Kata’eb Hezbollah, says Iraqi forces, supported by the IAA, destroyed more than 100 Daesh vehicles, killing more than 60 terrorists. He says tens of Daesh terrorists have fled to desert areas and are trying to regroup. [Mada]


DaeshDaily comment. This video published by the MoD shows the IAA destroying dozens of vehicles. Other videos from the scene show also many vehicles. The estimates of the AOC commander are inconsistent, but this was clearly a carnage...."

Links for [sources] as well as several videos on the Daesh Daily site. They post news about ISIS as seen in Arabic language.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 30, 2016 6:26:39 PM | 25

@22 Virgile, 'ISIS wants to hit the USA badly. It is now doing it at a low intensity using some local amateur extremists ( Orlando).'

I don't think so. I think that Mateen was just your 'run of the mill' CIA-sponsored-American offspring, driven nuts by his multiple identities, pursuing the official American 'solution' to his problems.

ISIS had as much to do with Orlando as Osama bin Laden had to do with 9/11.

'If ever Saudi Arabia is forced to stop funding ISIS, it will be exposed to terrorist acts.'

That points to the CIA as they prime mover behind ISIS, doesn't it.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 30, 2016 6:32:48 PM | 26

Cresty @ 12

The government could win on the ground with a deeper commitment from Iran and Russia

If Russia or Iran make a deeper commitment, Washington will see it as an opportunity to bog down either or both in a "quagmire" in Syria. Washington still believes its own crap propaganda that the last "quagmire" in Afghanistan brought down the Soviet Union so another one in Syria will bring down Russia and the Islamic Republic. The trouble with this stupidity is that Afghanistan was never a quagmire for the Soviet Union as compared to WW2 @ about 7M dead per year, Afghanistan with 2000 dead per year was nothing to write home about. What brought down the Soviet Union was its economics policy which failed to meet the consumer needs of its population and the collapse of he Soviet Union caused the collapse of its Afghan client. Putin really doesn't want the hassle f dealng with the idiots in Washington.
As for the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka they ignored one of the most basic rules of guerrilla warfare -if you might be wiped out, bury your weapons and bugger off home and never ever think you can take on superior conventional forces and win.

Denis @ 5

he would not last a week in an all out war against USG/Eu/NATO/GoY and the Gulf States.

It's you who is the fool. I suspect that you are an Americans and Americans have zero understanding of what an all out war with Russia would be like.
You're a fool if you think the Russian will do nothing while the United States takes six months to position and prepare for an attack as it did in Gulf War 1.
You're a fool if you think that all those lovely carrier battle groups will last more than a couple of hours.
You're a fool if you think there will be any F-22s that can operate over Russian territory for more than a few hours (about three at most).
You're fool if you think that all those F-35s will be any use at all.
An all out war with Russia might be over in five days but that is because the cockroaches will be victorious.

Posted by: blowback | Jun 30, 2016 8:02:49 PM | 27

The best way to help Israel deal with Iran's growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.

Negotiations to limit Iran's nuclear program will not solve Israel's security dilemma. Nor will they stop Iran from improving the crucial part of any nuclear weapons program — the capability to enrich uranium. At best, the talks between the world's major powers and Iran that began in Istanbul this April and will continue in Baghdad in May will enable Israel to postpone by a few months a decision whether to launch an attack on Iran that could provoke a major Mideast war.

Iran's nuclear program and Syria's civil war may seem unconnected, but they are. For Israeli
leaders, the real threat from a nuclear-armed Iran is not the prospect of an insane Iranian leader launching an unprovoked Iranian nuclear attack on Israel that would lead to the annihilation of both countries. What Israeli military leaders really worry about -- but cannot talk about -- is losing their nuclear monopoly. An Iranian nuclear weapons capability would not only end that nuclear monopoly but could also prompt other adversaries, like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, to go nuclear as well. The result would be a precarious nuclear balance in which Israel could not respond to provocations with conventional military strikes on Syria and Lebanon, as it can today.

If Iran were to reach the threshold of a nuclear weapons state, Tehran would find it much easier to call on its allies in Syria and Hezbollah to strike Israel, knowing that its nuclear weapons would serve as a deterrent to Israel responding against Iran itself.

MORE - https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328#efmADMAFf

Posted by: h | Jun 30, 2016 8:08:20 PM | 28

All of the above is from the wikileaks declassified cable from Hillary's state dept. Here is a link to informationclearinghouse article titled 'Clinton: Destroy Syria for Israel'

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44997.htm

Posted by: h | Jun 30, 2016 8:13:14 PM | 29

And in a repeat of the U.S. and Kurdish 'authorities' turning a blind eye to the slaughter of Yazidis during the ISIS assault on Sinjar, there is an ongoing slaughter of Kurds near al Bab.

Northwest (Aleppo, Idlib)

A man who was displaced from the Al-Bab area and is now in Afrin says he saw the dead bodies of more than one thousand civilians dropped in a garbage dump near Al-Bab city. He says Daesh terrorists are raiding Kurdish areas in the city and are kidnapping boys aged 11 years and older. [Hawar]

Just like in Sinjar, the U.S. is watching this genocide real-time on their drones and doing absolutely nothing. Just like Sinjar, they will deny knowing anything until days after the fact, then cry about this horrible war crime and use it as an excuse to put more U.S. troops in Syria. ISIS was put in place and empowered by the U.S./Saudi Arabia/Qatar to kill Syrian Army troops. The U.S. can't simply send drones and attack aircraft to take out ISIS in al Bab because they serve a purpose there: to keep Assad pinned down and kill Syrian troops. A few thousand Kurd lives are worth the cost for U.S. hegemony, I guess.

The U.S. has ignored warnings for days now that this was happening. They dismiss reports as 'unfounded rumors'. This, of course, will all be forgotten in a few months when human rights groups are unearthing the mass graves of Kurds in the garbage dump. At which point, the western MSM will weep crocodile tears at ISIS war crimes while ignoring the U.S. culpability for refusing to say anything or act.

Sinjar was a bit different. The Yazidis wouldn't knuckle under to Mob Boss Barzani and refused to 'join' his personal Barzanistan or his army. The Yazidis wanted their own autonomous region around Sinjar Mountain for themselves. They don't have any animosity towards the Kurds, they just didn't trust Barzani. But Barzani needed Sinjar for pipeline routes, so the Yazidis needed to be 'pacified' without implicating either Barzani or the U.S. The Yazidi Final Solution was for Barzani and the U.S. to just sit around and wait while they knew ISIS was overrunning Sinjar. The entire time knowing full well the Yazidis were being slaughtered - the (((CIA))) had drones all over the place watching this and watching the subsequent mass graves being filled. Once the Yazidi Final Solution was pretty much over, the U.S. started crowing about the situation and air dropped a few crates of food to the surviving Yazidis that fled into the mountain. You're starting to see various human rights groups and western MSM finally say something: they are arguing about getting this classified as genocide. Gosh, thanks for nothing.

You can expect the same sequence of events in al Bab. The U.S. (and apparently Afrin Kurds?) are conveniently ignoring the al-Bab genocide until they decide to notice (much too late).

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 30, 2016 8:21:59 PM | 30

@30 pw, 'The U.S. (and apparently Afrin Kurds?) are conveniently ignoring the al-Bab genocide until they decide to notice (much too late).'

Like the Sabra and Shatila massacre, isn't it?

Posted by: jfl | Jun 30, 2016 8:39:58 PM | 31

@28 h, 'The best way to help Israel ...'

What right thinking person on earth would want to help the genocidal state of Israel with anything?

'... deal with Iran's growing nuclear capability'

You're talking to yourself on that one as well.

Posted by: jfl | Jun 30, 2016 8:45:10 PM | 32

blowback @ 1

You say that "it's impossible to end this type of conflict by military means. . . ," and that "[t]he way to stop it is to persuade that however much any body (sic) spends on it, Assad is not going." Yet you don't explain how this persuasion is to be done. I think you got some 'splainin' to do!

Though the US wants Russia to differentiate between the good bad guys and the bad bad guys and despite it's rhetoric to the contrary, the US considers all the bad guys to be good guys. Perhaps it would be better for Russia to follow the advice of Arnaud Amalric to kill them all and let God sort them out.

Though there may once have been a democratic resistance in Syria, those days are long gone. By not supporting the legitimate government of Syria, the "good" rebels play into the hands of the "bad" rebels and the hordes of foreign fighters who are only there to create chaos. There are no good rebels in this case.

Posted by: Macon Richardson | Jun 30, 2016 8:46:24 PM | 33

Hoarsewhisperer @ 4
Well said, though you speak of the US's "weird ineptitude". Hardly inept, in fact quite ept if you consider that the US's goal is to support ISIS and the entire range of fundamentalist terrorism. Without fear, how would the Empire thrive?

Posted by: Macon Richardson | Jun 30, 2016 8:55:02 PM | 34

@ Helena #11

It's all in that WaPo opinion piece by stenographer Josh Rogin :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/obama-proposes-new-military-partnership-with-russia-in-syria/2016/06/29/8e8b2e2a-3e3f-11e6-80bc-d06711fd2125_story.html

He loves spewing diatribes from WINEP cognoscenti

Posted by: Yul | Jun 30, 2016 9:07:19 PM | 35

@30 paveway and by extension others..

my impression is that russia sees much, if not all of this and is playing a careful game of chess on all levels, msm, moderates, and all the other deceptive tricks that are being thrown into this ongoing 'regime change' or 'chaos if nothing else' circus.. i view the usa and western leadership at this point like a 'wounded animal'.. for anyone who has a connection to the wild, a wounded animal, especially a powerful one, if a very dangerous entity to be around.. this is how i see the west at this point..

the usa might be hoping to engage public sympathy, with any excuse to get rid of 'assad the butcher', or whatever label they'd like to sell, but i think russia, at least from my own perspective, has been carefully walking through a field of mines, successfully neutralizing them all.. just when russia decides to go in for the kill, or whether they let the wounded animal work out what energy it has left - and it appears to still have a lot - remains to be seen. i continue to believe we are headed into a major world war, in spite of the masterful chess playing on the part of russia here..

Posted by: james | Jun 30, 2016 9:46:27 PM | 36

OT - and in related news which will never see the light of day in the western msm

Wanted in Russia: EU court blocked suspected Istanbul attack mastermind from extradition in 2010 indeede.

Posted by: james | Jun 30, 2016 9:50:46 PM | 37

To: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 30, 2016 3:00:29 PM | 7
Ha,ha,ha,ha. . .helpful as bull spit on the windshield. Easy to see why they ran you off of EmptyWheel

To: Yonatan | Jun 30, 2016 3:52:55 PM | 10
Ha,ha,ha,ha. . .funny response, shows some great elementary school level intelligence, which is a stretch for you.

To: blowback | Jun 30, 2016 8:02:49 PM | 27
Ha,ha,ha,ha. . .I mean, that’s real funny. US spends more on military in 1 year than Russia does in 10. If Putin was such a bad ass, why didn’t he spank Erdogan when the Su was shot down instead of whining like a little girl? Why doesn’t he spank Yisrael when they periodically wipe out his missile deliveries to Assad? All he has actually done in Syria is to bomb a bunch of rag-head Sunni and then tuck-tail and piss off back to the Empire. Yeah, that takes a lot of balls. . .

All of you Russians on this site are deluded. Funny, but deluded.

Posted by: Denis | Jun 30, 2016 9:58:24 PM | 38

jfl @32 - what on earth are you talking about when you say "You're talking to yourself on that one as well."

The post is of a U.S. State Dept memo declassified and released by Wikileaks regarding the Clinton State Dept's position on Syria. Read the damned memo. I'm not saying any of this the U.S. State Dept is.

Posted by: h | Jun 30, 2016 10:00:03 PM | 39

jfl@31 - Sabra: a sad, dim memory. I have only the vaguest recollections of events at the time. No internet, only (((network))) news and the (((MSM))) rags at the time. I only started understanding the deceptions/truth of the situation decades later. Interesting to check out the Talk and History sections of that ((((Wikipedia))) page. I see there has been Hasbara trolls for years 'helping' edit the Sabra page.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jun 30, 2016 10:06:32 PM | 40

I'm not sure what it takes to get folks here to read, but the above posts @28 and @29, I posted earlier, are from a U.S. State Dept memo declassified and posted recently at Wikileaks. InformationClearingHouse broke the story today. Bother yourselves and read it.

It confirms much of what b and so many others have been writing, hell, screaming about for months if not years regarding the U.S. foreign policy position in Syria and Libya, which all leads back to the front doorstep of Israel.

Posted by: h | Jun 30, 2016 10:15:21 PM | 41

Yul @ #35.
Is Josh Rogin a made up name?
If Rogan Josh is on the menu in an Indian Restaurant, my mouth starts watering in anticipation. But whenever Josh's name crops up on an article I wonder if his name and journalistic recipes are supposed to invoke the same response in Neocons, whilst dulling the appetite of innocent bystanders?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 30, 2016 10:41:18 PM | 42

Defining OFF TOPIC?

Long ago, attending a major university known world wide for its' rigor in the field of history, my thesis committee objected to the use of oral history when dealing with the conflicts between European invaders and resident natives. The problem was then, and is now, that the only way to begin to understand the natives view was by careful examination of their oral tradition. Every thing else was written from the invaders perspective. Then they called the use of 'oral tradition' as being 'OFF TOPIC' ... with the consequent result that one only had the views of one side.

Sometimes OFF TOPIC is in fact central to the discussion when trying to understand the background of the alleged discussion. And so it is with this discussion: unless we have a solid understanding of the nature of our political system there is simply no way we can understand the actions/activities of that system.

Put bluntly this thread: "New U.S. "Offer" To Cooperate With Russia in Syria Is Deceptive Nonsense" resides solidly within the realm of the malignant overlords refusal to honor BREXIT, or their decisions to make a mockery of the very system they have used to select another temporary emperor (aka: President) in the US. The overlords in the repug party don't like who the repug voters selected as their candidate ... and they have made it manifest that madam Killary will be the next president (temporary empress) ... and so is it any wonder that "New U.S. "Offer" To Cooperate With Russia in Syria Is Deceptive Nonsense" is a consequence of that type of decision making.

Just asking ...

Posted by: rg the lg | Jun 30, 2016 11:05:10 PM | 44

Posted by: Denis | Jun 30, 2016 9:58:24 PM | 38

Hasbara Is A Many Splendored Thing?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 30, 2016 11:06:00 PM | 45

b, I'm sorry for the OT, but this is so outrageouos!
Yesterday, the 29th:
"A federal judge on June 29 ordered the State Department to produce the e-mail records of Hillary Clinton’s scheduler during her tenure as secretary of state, expanding an investigation being pursued by conservative nonprofit Citizens United into the overlap between Clinton’s official travel and her meetings with foreign Clinton Foundation donors. This is a FELONY."

and today, the damn judge sealed the Clinton Foundation e-mails until 2018.
https://memoryholeblog.com/2016/06/30/state-dept-seals-clinton-foundation-emails-until-2018/

We all know it's a gangster country, but good grief!

Posted by: Penelope | Jun 30, 2016 11:06:53 PM | 46

h @ 28-29&41: Good links & good advice for the MoA community. Some folks don't read links, they just love to read their own opinions. Thanks.

Posted by: ben | Jun 30, 2016 11:21:28 PM | 47

P @ 46: May be OT, but emblematic of the REAL way the world functions. The Empire will have their Empress.

Posted by: ben | Jun 30, 2016 11:28:09 PM | 48

It's an excellent piece of reporting, b, but the conclusion sounds like impatience: "The Russian government should finally [...] end the conflict by solely military means."

When we run out of patience in this global war against the US, with its regional battles and its several planes of activity, it's like running out of ammunition, and we'd better send for some more patience. Any expression of impatience must be a mistake.

Putin addressed the officers of the entire Russian Foreign Ministry today and said (my emphasis):

Syria has found itself at the epicentre of the fight against terrorism. It is no exaggeration to say that Syria’s future will be decisive not only for the future of the Middle East. It is in Syria that the fight against terrorism is being decided

So, ISIS will be destroyed in Syria if possible, unless the theater moves to somewhere else.

So much for terrorism. What about the main war, the life-and-death struggle with the US? Why, within the context of the larger global struggle, does Russia still allow the US such extraordinary leeway in Syria, to sustain by pure deception its mercenary terrorist creation?

I can only conclude that Russia does this because its own war calculations say it still has to offer as much leeway as possible at every turn. There can be no doubt whatsoever that the Russian command sees everything moving in Syria. There are no mistakes or unknowns operating here. So it's a pure balance of power equation that we're seeing every day.

This is how crazed and dangerous the US is right now. James up-thread likened it to a wounded animal. When Russia goes to war against the US, the US will be destroyed, and it will happen in a very few short hours. My guess is they'd take out the east coast first and wait for the United States formally to surrender, before they would destroy the rest of the country. In 3-4 more years, nothing in the US nuclear arsenal will be able to penetrate into Russia.

In such a global situation, with so much lethality on the table, Russia chooses to run the clock out as carefully as it can. Russia does not want war, and will do everything humanly possible to prevent it. We in the west are simply not accustomed to this humane way of thinking, but it's the case.

I have the feeling Russia maneuvers also in the information space. Just as diplomacy is on the board right alongside troop dispositions, so also I suspect is message and propaganda. Conceivably, it plays along with the US the way it plays in all other fields, retreating to draw the enemy forward into its cauldron. In plain terms, Russia waits until the US traps itself in a lie so big and so public that it can't get out of it. Then, as in other theaters such as Debaltsevo, more surrender terms are quietly negotiated, with binding law.

This way of fighting is pure Putin, I think. It emulates the Taoist Way: "Nature does not hurry, but all is accomplished." Putin the Judoka, I think, is restraining his nation from the violence it is boiling to unleash against the west right now, and Russia bides its time out of sheer respect for Putin. In this, the west is more lucky than it knows.

Posted by: Grieved | Jul 1, 2016 12:06:57 AM | 49

@ Grieved - 49

I agree with your comment except that you do not include China as the Russian "trump" card. A nuclear attack against Russia will be countered by China as well as Russia. That is why we are not engaged in nuclear war at this time, IMO.

People need to understand that our world is going through a seismic confrontation of our forms of social organization. It will be interesting to watch it continue to unfold and be manipulated by the various factions.

I am still predicting that the G20 meeting in China in September will represent a "coming out" for China in the geo-political sphere. I think it will turn the US election circus frenzy up a couple of notches as the dissonance of "Make America Great Again" hits "America needs to stop being the war criminals it used to prosecute".

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jul 1, 2016 12:33:58 AM | 50

psycho @ 50: ""America needs to stop being the war criminals it used to prosecute".

From your thoughts, to the Universal ear. Ditto 49.

Posted by: ben | Jul 1, 2016 1:16:23 AM | 51

"...in exchange for Russia getting the Assad regime to stop bombing U.S.-supported rebels."

Imagine someone suggesting to the United States during the Civil War that they would assist with our war against the Barbary Coast pirates if we would stop fighting the Confederates. It boggles the mind that the Obama administration would as Russia to get the Syrian government to stop fighting the military forces that are trying to destroy it.

Posted by: Bill H | Jul 1, 2016 1:22:35 AM | 52

@39 h

No quotes ... I thought that was direct direct address. Reading that first paragraph I classified you as a not too bright troll. I see now that you were 'quoting' - without quotes - a Hillary Clinton email, which explains it all. I imagine I was not the only one confused.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 1, 2016 1:53:03 AM | 53

@40 pw

I just linked to wikipedia as a marker. I imagine it's not a very good account ... wikipedia is subject to the spin wars on any 'controversial' subject ... any subject some people want to insist is controversial. The similarity lies in the Israelis in the one case doing what the Americans are apparently doing in this case: averting their eyes to the massacre their minions produce after they've let same minions have access to those they want to destroy. I imagine it was an old trick when the Israelis used it.

You're right, I should have posted a better link than Wikipedia.

Sabra and Shatila, the Forgotten Massacres
SABRA AND SHATILA

Posted by: jfl | Jul 1, 2016 2:10:07 AM | 54

@41 h..

thanks for the links.. i agree with jfl @53 on how putting quotation marks around quoted sections is helpful! i admit to being slow to sometimes read links, but i always enjoy reading wikileak releases when they are shared.. i am confused on the date of the wikileak post at the very top.. top of the page says 2000/12/31.. why? otherwise i get the content - this has been expressed repeatedly over the years thru various media outlets, although i like wikileaks releases and this to be what it is!so much of it revolves around clinton and her run for the presidency.. interesting timing on all this here...

ot - @44 rg the lg... b provides threads that allow for it fairly often.. my comment @19 was really directed at the post @14.. sometimes people post stuff that point directly back to them, whether they want to recognize that or not.. i guess that is why folks refer to hasbarists and stuff like that.. if it walks like a donkey, talks like a donkey - it is probably a donkey. so - what is ot? i suppose it is all a matter of opinion!


@49 / 50 grieved and psychohistorian.. i agree with much of what you both articulate in theposts, but am a bit less convinced of the whole balance of power between the usa, russia and china.. not sure how they stay in balance, while one power appears to decline while the other 2 appear to strengthen.. not sure how it works here, but seems potentially very dangerous either way.. thanks for your comments...

Posted by: james | Jul 1, 2016 2:10:21 AM | 55

Now imagine just 6 months from now, with zHRH Clinton in power, the bankrupt ZUK regime on the US payroll, the obstreperous UK now out of USNATO Wehrmacht, oiland gas back to war profit range, and Syria in her ZioNazim cross-hairs.

Posted by: Timmy Blair | Jul 1, 2016 4:28:20 AM | 56

James @55 Re the date of the Wikileaks Clinton emails.
"Although the Wikileaks transcript dates the email as December 31, 2000, this is an error on their part, as the contents of the email (in particular the reference to May 2012 talks between Iran and the west over its nuclear program in Istanbul) show that the email was in fact sent on December 31, 2012".http://newobserveronline.com/clinton-destroy-syria-israel/

Posted by: harrylaw | Jul 1, 2016 5:21:50 AM | 57

Macon Richardson @ 33

I think you got some 'splainin' to do!

You make sure the terrorists burn through their foreign fighters and material far faster than the SAA. Most of the private funders of the terrorists demand results and if those funders are not getting the results they want they'll stop paying. The domestic fighters you eventually do a deal with because you and they have nowhere else to go.

Posted by: blowback | Jul 1, 2016 6:07:12 AM | 58

Denis @ 38
I can go out and buy a Bentley Continental GT for £140,000 or I can go out and buy a Skoda Fabia for £7,000. They are both from Volkswagen and they can both legally get me and a similar amount of stuff from A to B in the same time yet one costs twenty times more than the other. That the United States spends ten times more on war than Russia spends on defence is irrelevant to their effectiveness if the United States attacks Russia.
As for Putin's response to shooting down of an aircraft, who has seen his plans for further colonisation of Syria disintegrate and who was it who just apologised? As they say, there is more than one way of killing a cat.
Your reply demonstrates that your stupidity and ignorance makes engaging in any form of rational discussion with you pointless so don't bother replying as I see no point in continuing this "conversation".

Posted by: blowback | Jul 1, 2016 6:10:34 AM | 59

@ h | Jun 30, 2016 8:08:20 PM | 28

Well, your neglecting to indicate that you were quoting the U.S. Department of State, via WikiLeaks, has led to a bit of confusion. In fact I take this quote to show that the U.S. Department of State is either very delusional or is playing some very odd psy-op.

{QUOTE} What Israeli military leaders really worry about -- but cannot talk about -- is losing their nuclear monopoly. An Iranian nuclear weapons capability would not only end that nuclear monopoly but could also prompt other adversaries, like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, to go nuclear as well. The result would be a precarious nuclear balance in which Israel could not respond to provocations with conventional military strikes on Syria and Lebanon, as it can today. If Iran were to reach the threshold of a nuclear weapons state, Tehran would find it much easier to call on its allies in Syria and Hezbollah to strike Israel, knowing that its nuclear weapons would serve as a deterrent to Israel responding against Iran itself. {UNQUOTE} -- UNCLASSIFIED U.S. Department of State -- via WikiLeaks -- NEW IRAN AND SYRIA 2.DOC -- Date: 2000-12-31

My running summation of the situation is that Iran is likely to be among the few nations that do not possess nuclear weapons. And it also convinces me that Saudi Arabia and Egypt actually do possess them.

The scary thing is that many people in the U.S. security agencies exist within a giant impenetrable bubble of vast stupidity.

Posted by: blues | Jul 1, 2016 7:37:20 AM | 60

If this is true, it is disturbing, not those neocon concoctions but that Russia will not put an end to it.
And recent rekindling of the Political threesome between Putin and Erdogan and Netanyahu is even more disturbing, while 50k Turkish soldiers are fighting anybody at the border, and IDF is actively supporting terrorists or whoever wants to dislodge Assad, and bombs critical military infrastructure while S400 is idled.
I wonder while MOA refuses to say the obvious RUSSIA has significantly changed her attitude to Assad regime while de facto acquiesced to Syrian partition and slowly succumbing under US control or at least is somewhat paralyzed by it.

This very issue was addressed at SWU few weeks ago and this post adding to credibility of such an assessment of the Syrian situation.
https://syrianwarupdate.wordpress.com/2016/06/12/strange-days-did-israelis-pivoted-to-russia-or-the-other-way-around/

Posted by: Kalen | Jul 1, 2016 7:39:52 AM | 61

It's not at all clear that Russia has changed its stance regarding Syria. The Turks and Israelis have perpetrated various minor provocations, but that is apparently not enough to provoke Russia to enter unknown territory by shooting down their planes.

The "rebels" seem to be mercenaries, and they are probably dwindling, so perhaps all Syria and Russia need to do is allow that process to continue.

Posted by: blues | Jul 1, 2016 8:04:20 AM | 62

Re 61; In case you missed Turkey is heavily involved in fight every day attacking all sides except Turkmen terrorists who executed Russian pilot and who was praised by Erdogan, it stopped cold advances of YPG along border and attacked SAA, killing Syrian and Hezbollah soldiers. Turkey still allows ISIL to peacefully coexist with Turkish army along the border as recent RT reports showed.
Also western reports indicated that ISIL was nor significantly harmed by the war and proved it by repelling SAA from Raqqa vicinity. See the videos under the link I posted.

Israel is stil bombing SAA installations, see Haretz reporting.
And now buying US nonsense propaganda by Russia if true would be another turning in her policies.

Posted by: Kalen | Jul 1, 2016 8:24:53 AM | 63

I think it is political cover for the hell bitch.She is responsible for the groundfloor of this conflict ,by using AlCIAda as regime change.
The American people have no interest in this disaster,and Trump says he will work with Russia.
The neolibcons see that support for Trumps vision and are trying to show the public their own version.Its all Zio BS to take away Trumps mojo.
Did you see the story of Lynch not being the decider in chief of the HBs email scandal?
The obvious corrupt meeting with bent dick cost her,the liar.

Posted by: dahoit | Jul 1, 2016 9:09:46 AM | 64

Quotation marks it will be from here on out. My apologies for any confusion.

That said, remember a month or so ago Assange stating they had more state dept docs from a leaker. It could be Guccifer 2.0's stash or Russia's alleged stash of her emails or from someone else altogether. It appears, and I can be entirely wrong, they are quietly adding docs to their Hillary file.

And jfl, I've been called a lot of things in my lifetime but a troll is a new one. Thanks for responding. Oh, and I'm not a troll...

Posted by: h | Jul 1, 2016 9:25:14 AM | 65

60

Does the Turkey "suicide bmobing" have "all the signs of ISIS", (since ISIL is defacto USIL), or was this a false flag attack by the revived oil emirates, using odd Turkmen?We're chipping at the obsidian exterior of a $trillion global oil and gas megalith and chattering over so-called WikiLeaks soft-hangout intel operation CIA-State comms, like predicting for your mates Boris Spassky's next chess move. We're not in their league!

Posted by: Uk Tahder | Jul 1, 2016 9:27:11 AM | 66

@ 63 dahoit: " The hell bitch", is merely another puppet, in the long list of presidential puppets, and "The Donald", if "elected", will be the same. HRC and Trump are two sides of the same coin IMO.

The corporate "New World Order", advances.

Apologies for the OT.

Posted by: ben | Jul 1, 2016 10:15:25 AM | 67

July 1, 2016 You cannot make this stuff up ...

"Two news stories today, least of which is the downing of a Syrian SU 22 by the al Islam Army, a Saudi Arabian paid force armed with American Stinger type missiles and Russian SAM 7s. Another Syrian jet was downed in Idlib ten days ago. The second story is an American disaster, one being kept secret, a botched operation at the Iraqi/Syrian border that represents the kind of intelligence failure easily predicted when allies like Israel, Turkey, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, who all took part in the planning, are deeply invested in an American failure."

"A combined US, British airborne special operation in remote Eastern Syria, at the confluence of the Euphrates River and the border with Iraq, went very wrong and will not be reported. American and British “technicians” were captured along with Jordanian advisors and 20 survivors of the US trained New Syrian Army which was virtually wiped out during the botched operation."

source - http://www.veteranstoday.com/2016/07/01/exclusive-american-special-forces-sas-captured-by-isis-at-al-bukamal-syria/

Posted by: ALberto | Jul 1, 2016 10:28:56 AM | 68

To: blowback | Jul 1, 2016 6:10:34 AM | 58

You argue that you can buy a Bentley for £140,000 and that is the reason the USG on a $350bn/yr. military budget won’t kick Russia’s ass. And then you refer to MY “stupidity and ignorance”. Ha, ha, ha, . . .

You have nothing to say – much less anything intelligent – in response to my queries as to why Putin ignored the Turks killing a Russian pilot and the iJews attacking Russian missile deliveries. I might note that “blues” and “Kalen” have put up some very helpful thoughts on those points, just above – did you want to flame their “stupidity and ignorance”, too, or are you just targeting people you think are Americans?

blowback: “. . . don't bother replying as I see no point in continuing this ‘conversation’.” Ha, ha, ha . . . OK, dude, I won’t.

Have a great July 4th holiday, y’all. (Or as we call it here in Canada, the Canada Day Holiday, you lightweight.)

Posted by: Denis | Jul 1, 2016 10:31:22 AM | 69

"Since the first outing for ISIS was the Benghazi attack, with clear overtones of a combined CIA op in coordination, and our sources here are impeccable, with traitorous right wing pro-Israeli American billionaires, we can now clearly see the treasonous role the CIA is playing in Syria and Iraq and better understand the current “waffling” of Erdogan and his strong desire to get as far away from this as he can.

There is a total information crackdown on this debacle, a major American failure and a huge failure for President Obama. Everyone with information about this has been taken into custody or silenced, this is that serious."

ibid

Posted by: ALberto | Jul 1, 2016 10:35:24 AM | 70

Re: Posted by: Denis | Jun 30, 2016 2:25:46 PM | 5

It's actually fairly simple actually.

The battle in Syria is part of the wider battle for EUROPE.

The UK, the EU - basically though - Germany.

Read this very very interesting article in terms of German-Russian relations.
http://johnhelmer.net/?p=15929

Apparently, according to Helmer, Merkel is being undermined from within and will soon be pushed aside. The obvious time for this to happen is at next year's German Elections - which brings me to a point I've made elsewhere.

The Brexit vote has brought these elections into sharp focus - the FANG Elections.

France - Le Pen v Establishment (May 2017)

America - Trump v Establishment (November 2016)
or
Austria - Hofer v Establishment (Soon)

Netherlands - Wilders v Establishment (March 2017)

Germany - AFD v Establishment (October 2017).

Effectively the 12 months kicking off in November through to October 2017 will be key to determining what exactly will happen in Syria, Ukraine, EU, Brexit, US-EU etc.

And then in 2018 you have Putin up for re-election to serve through to 2024 - the Centenary of Lenin's death.

Given all that I'd suspect the situation in Syria is going to persist for some time until interests of various countries align more closely.

World War III at least seems off the agenda until at least 2018, and perhaps longer.

Posted by: Jules | Jul 1, 2016 10:43:11 AM | 71

OFF Topic,


Czech president wants referendum on EU & NATO membership
https://www.rt.com/news/349149-zeman-eu-czech-referendum/

Posted by: Rebs32 | Jul 1, 2016 10:53:34 AM | 72

OT @46 Penelope, State requested until 2018 to release the emails. The judge has not approved this request. I doubt he will.

RE: Putin,

I truly admire him, with no shame attached. I wish America was led by a statesman such as he.

I try to predict his next step, but consistently fail.

The 2nd Chechen War. Putin ended it with direct rule over Chechnya. He removed the item of dispute from the table.

When Georgia attacked, he terminated many of the US trained troops and recognized Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent republics and no longer Georgian territories. He removed the item(s) of disupute from the table.

After the coup in Ukraine, Putin annexed a willing Crimea. He removed the item of dispute from the table. (Everyone should know Sevastopol and the coastline was the prize.)

In Syria, what is the item in dispute? How to remove it at least cost? Therein lies the answer.

Things to consider:

Putin knows that the next war will likely go nuclear. He also knows how desperately the West needs a war. I suspect he is giving them enough rope to hang themselves, while denying them the war they want. At the same time, the reputation and image of America becomes more damaged and more people become enlightened to Americas' true nature as America takes greater and more evil steps to provoke this war. The Russian reputation at the same time is enhanced by their patience and mutually beneficial deal making around the world with those who have not succumbed to the American hegemon.

US really wants NATO article 5 to be triggered.

In a world leader, I would hope that when the lives of millions of innocents are dependent upon your response to continuous provocation, I would hope that world leader would be cautious and delay reacting until war was absolutely inevitable.

Personally, I will take a nuke for America. Let me know what I need to do to piss Putin off enough so that he must target me. I will let him know when I will be in D.C., and I will be standing on the White House lawn in my "happy shirt". Can't miss it, tie-dyed, green, yellow red and I'll wear a green beret for kicks. :)

I believe it is only the 'innocents' that is staying Putins' hand. He is aware that our government is not our people. Many, if not most of us are prisoners here. Our suicide rate is through the roof, everyone is preying upon everyone in some shape, form or fashion. Our religious nuts love them some Jesus, but are quick to denounce every religion besides their own...and the Israeli one. And if you knew what the Baptists up the street think about Muslims... (I had to tell em, going to church don't make you a Christian no more than standing in your garage gonna make you a car. They don't invite me to their meet anymore.) Only a fool calls the police for help these days, 911 ain't no joke. They will blast anything moving. They think we don't know how they are blowing trillions of dollars while the 3 cubic foot hole in my street has had hazard cones around it for the last 2 years. ( At least we got cones around the big ones.) All while being offered a choice of a narcissistic, greedy, opportunist or a criminal psychopathic murderer to lead this 'never was' great country. Too many people on the government tit, food stamps, disability, millions of government employees/contractors. They want access to every aspect of our lives but we are regularly lied to about what they do in our names.

Sometimes, you have to cut off the arm or the leg to save the life.

Thanks for listening. I should be good for a week or two. ;^)

Posted by: b4real | Jul 1, 2016 11:18:47 AM | 73

To: b4real | Jul 1, 2016 11:18:47 AM | 72

Wow -- a bulletless bullet-list of why people love Putin. Very well done, thank-you; I had forgotten some of that history. However, I still have my doubts/disappointments/suspicions about Putin. As I do about Obama.

Posted by: Denis | Jul 1, 2016 12:04:10 PM | 74

b4real #72

Excellent summary. Putin and Lavrov are facing a real dilemma. They are reasserting Russia's national interests that were abandoned by Yeltsin and the US preferred Yeltin's Russia and is willing to risk war to achieve its aims. Thus Putin and Lavrov are trying to avoid WWIII while pursuing their policies. Their policies along their borders have been excellent. I am unsure it was wise to provoke the US in Syria though, In an all out fight (short of going nuclear) Russia can't win. They could bloody the US and probably clear the Baltic and Black Seas of US warships but they would be driven out of Syria.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jul 1, 2016 12:41:39 PM | 75

@72 b4reak,, thanks.. well said.

Posted by: james | Jul 1, 2016 12:47:38 PM | 76

http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2016/06/we-are-not-frozen-nightmare-says-defiant-john-kerry/129493/?oref=d_brief_nl

Link found at Naked Capitalism.

Kerry at Aspen Institute told the audience:

...Secretary of State John Kerry sought to reassure an Aspen audience Tuesday that “the world is not witnessing global gridlock. We are not frozen in a nightmare. Where we are engaged with a clear strategy, using our power thoughtfully, we are making progress, most places.” There are “a lot of Cassandras around,” he said, but “I don’t believe the world ahead is only defined by turmoil and strife.”

....

In short order, Kerry alluded to geopolitical challenges in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, and Nigeria, among other places. “The United States of America is more engaged in more places with greater impact today than at any time in American history,” he declared. “And that is simply documentable and undeniable.”

In Aspen, that was an applause line. And it is in harmony with the foreign policy vision articulated by Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee, across many years.

Power corrupts, eh?

Posted by: jawbone | Jul 1, 2016 12:55:15 PM | 77

Some fresh headlines

Cameron’s controversial £2.8bn Saudi Arabia arms deal investigated
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/685301/david-cameron-saudi-arabia-arms-deal-investigate

Jihadists that US kept off terror list attack UN humanitarian convoy in Syria - MoD
https://www.rt.com/news/349074-syria-jihadists-attack-convoy/

Many Syrian Refugees In US Are Daesh Militants: Trump
http://rinf.com/alt-news/newswire/many-syrian-refugees-in-us-are-daesh-militants-trump/Many

Obama in Canada preaching Globalism/NWO? While China and Russia meeting to discuss Obama’s Military aggression towards them in pursuing NWO
http://investmentwatchblog.com/obama-in-canada-preaching-globalismnwo-while-china-and-russia-meeting-to-discuss-obamas-military-aggression-towards-them-in-pursuing-nwo/

Posted by: ALAN | Jul 1, 2016 12:56:07 PM | 78

@b4real | Jul 1, 2016 11:18:47 AM | 73

(b, sorry for OT, informations linking 3 website equal important relating to Syria.)

After the coup in Ukraine, Putin annexed a willing Crimea. He removed the item of dispute from the table. (Everyone should know Sevastopol and the coastline was the prize.)

Renovation of Sevastopol School #5, Ukraine (Sep 05, 2013. 2:58 am)

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=2bb691b61c59be3a68180bd8c614a0cb&tab=core&_cview=1

I posted the above link in MoA before, sorry for repeating. Absolute proof US Navy intends to take over "Sevastopol" and kicked Russia Federation's Black Sea fleet out. Russia Federation did not annexed Crimea. More or less 93% voted to joined RF. Putin invited International Observers to watch the referendum and many did not came.

Crimea was part of Russia since Catherine the Great, is it legal to drive invaders out either by democratic referendum or by forced if necessary? Either case, my opinion is justified. There are more detail, skip for brevity. Beside former Pres. Viktor Yanukovich extend Sevastopol leased after 2017 for another 25 years.

MARCH 22, 2010 BY DMITRY GORENBURG

https://russiamil.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/the-future-of-the-sevastopol-russian-navy-base/

National Review - Rich Lowry August 14, 2008 4:45 PM

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/167142/georgia-rich-lowry

Posted by: Jack Smith | Jul 1, 2016 1:43:35 PM | 79

An SBS.au reporter interviewed Assad very recently (The Brexit vote result is mentioned) in a program broadcast on July1...

Exclusive: Syrian President Assad says western countries secretly deal with his government
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2016/06/29/exclusive-syrian-president-assad-says-western-countries-secretly-deal-his

I'm not sure if this 35min vid (+ partial transcript) will be accessible outside Oz but it is also available at SBS On Demand. The format is 6min of background intro, circa 25mins of interview, and 3mins of embarrssingly puerile Zio-American claptrap from a recent Oz Ambassador to Syria. It's an interesting interview because it runs all the Zio-American tropes past Assad and he calmly answers all of them.
My summary ... no wonder the Syrians reconfirmed their faith in him in the recent elections...

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 1, 2016 2:00:05 PM | 80

JB 76

“The United States of America is more engaged in more places with greater impact today than at any time in American history,” he declared. “And that is simply documentable and undeniable.”

Kerry presents a thinly-veiled confession of war crimes. The Aspen Group applauds. This is the kind of shit of which the common people have had enough.

Posted by: fastfreddy | Jul 1, 2016 3:03:09 PM | 81

jfl@54 - "You're right, I should have posted a better link than Wikipedia."

No you shouldn't have. There was enough of the details to get the gist of it. It's enough to simply have awareness of Wikipedia often being used as a tool of propaganda by it's editor overlords, despite the seemingly neutral crowd-sourced content suggested.

Psychopaths have maintained control of the peons by deception for millenia. In this one very brief slice of time, we can whisper to each other across the ether and say, "Look! This is how the bastards are lying to us this time".

I'm slowly realizing that I am alive at the best possible time in all of human history. Today, here, now - this is absolutely extraordinary.

james@36 - "...i continue to believe we are headed into a major world war, in spite of the masterful chess playing on the part of russia here..." Only if they turn off the internet. Sado-neocons will soon be relics of history. Is a nearly-toothless rabid dog really that dangerous? It has to hire other dogs to bite you now. The diseased U.S. leadership is capable of less and less as time goes on, eventually threatening little more than a vicious gumming. Plenty dangerous until then, but Putin has time on his side.

I have to balance the possibility of WW III with the (in my mind) greater possibility that Americans will finally act when the rabid Old Yeller tries to escape from the corn crib and bite the little people. It won't be an insurrection, it will be a mercy killing. The U.S. military is our Travis. As screwed up as it appears to be, I am confident that there's still a few old-schoolers left at (well, 'near') the top that remember their oath. As long as Old Yeller is safely penned up, they can do nothing but grumble. That inaction shouldn't be interpreted as lack of conviction. Eventually, some one is going to open the gate and the few men of honor left are going to do what they know must be done. It will have nothing to do with the chair-polishing Israeli-firster sado-neocons in the Pentagon - they are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 1, 2016 3:27:52 PM | 82

@78 ALAN, 'Many Syrian Refugees In US Are Daesh Militants: Trump'

Trump is looking more and more like Hillary's Romney. I guess the Adelson payoff was for taking the fall? Maybe they threw in a Rambler as the clincher.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 1, 2016 3:34:01 PM | 83

@4 AL, "Amerikastan Main Stream Medias are reporting that the Istanbul terrorists are 'Russian.'"

They should be reporting them as CIA terrorists, al-CIAduh. The CIA trains all the Chechens, Dagestanis, et. al. in the Caucasus in the 'art'.

@82 pw, 'I'm slowly realizing that I am alive at the best possible time in all of human history'

Yeah. It's like "first there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is"

Since the one and only time we'll be alive it is by definition the "best of times, the worst of times". My understanding has been broadened by the concept of 'infinite' rebirth: "first there is an end, then there is no end, then there is". Yes we are all on a one way ticket, but through membership in the 'cloud' of life and humanity, a very large number of more similar than dissimilar beings, we can live more than one life in the imaginary plane, and so be reconciled with the finite nature of our one and only.

I had to look up the Old Yeller reference ... of course I'd seen the movie when it came out, but didn't remember the story ... it all came back via wikipedia.

Unfortunately, I think of the US military as our Old Yeller, not as our Travis. Wonder if we'll have the strength to do what has to be done?

Posted by: jfl | Jul 1, 2016 3:58:47 PM | 84

...
Putin knows that the next war will likely go nuclear. He also knows how desperately the West needs a war. I suspect he is giving them enough rope to hang themselves, while denying them the war they want. At the same time, the reputation and image of America becomes more damaged and more people become enlightened to Americas' true nature as America takes greater and more evil steps to provoke this war. The Russian reputation at the same time is enhanced by their patience and mutually beneficial deal making around the world with those who have not succumbed to the American hegemon.

US really wants NATO article 5 to be triggered.
...
Posted by: b4real | Jul 1, 2016 11:18:47 AM | 73

I'm not singling you out for special treatment but the opinion you've expressed about Western powers "needing" a (major) war is not an uncommon fear. However, I have difficulty imagining that any sane person needs, and desires a (major) war. It presumes that they're confident that, if their dreams came true, they'd be able to either:
1. Escape its consequences entirely,
or
2. Control/influence the time, place and possible expansion beyond the preferred battle zone so that their preferred refuge remained "safe".

If you have any ideas at all about the way in which #1 or #2, or both, might be accomplished successfully, it wouldn't do any harm to share them here, if you have the time and inclination...
Thanks in anticipation.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 1, 2016 4:08:23 PM | 85

@73 b4real '...the reputation and image of America becomes more damaged and more people become enlightened to Americas' true nature as America takes greater and more evil steps to provoke this war.'

That is simultaneously sad but true, and the only light at the end of the tunnel. It's not just the USA, although of course the USA is the flagship of the Neolibraconian fleet, but Brexit is a manifestation of "the peoples" reaction to the depravity of their 'leaders'.

Glad you're OK for the next couple of weeks, brother :)

@74 denis, 'I still have my doubts/disappointments/suspicions about Putin. As I do about Obama.'

Trying to salvage Obama by mentioning him in the same left-handed breath as Putin? Brother, you sure can spin.

@81 ff, 'Kerry presents a thinly-veiled confession of war crimes. The Aspen Group applauds. This is the kind of shit of which the common people have had enough.'

Amen, brother. Now let us join our British brethren and act ...

Posted by: jfl | Jul 1, 2016 4:15:42 PM | 86

@85, hoarse

The neo-cons believe both your 1 and 2 ... b4real believes neither, I'd venture ... but the neo-cons offer no 'proof' ... they gotta show you nor me no stinkin' badges ... you have to smoke what they're smoking in order share the "vision". They're addicted to their bogus, stolen privilege and terrified of life on planet earth as mere human beings.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 1, 2016 4:22:24 PM | 87

Famous, old, insane billionaire bastards drooling for years for hot war with Russia: Brzezinski, Kissinger, Negroponte, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perl, Feith, Nutanyahoo, Lieberman, ....

Second tier, some younger, craven, bootlicker guys and gals urging them, prodding them, provoking...telling them what they want to hear (for money, power) Hell Bitch, Nuland, Kagan Bros, Obama, Kerry...

Posted by: fast freddy | Jul 1, 2016 6:44:20 PM | 88

jfl@84 - "...Unfortunately, I think of the US military as our Old Yeller, not as our Travis..." I will humbly suggest you are making the same mis-characterization as those that equate the actions of the U.S. government with the will and sensibility of U.S. people.

Feel free to disagree, but I make a solid distinction between 'the Pentagon' and 'the U.S. military', i.e. rank and file. I'll toss officers up to field grade (Colonel or Navy Captain) into the rank and file for this statement. Flag officers - generals and admirals - are more politician than soldier/sailor. The 1000 flag officers we have today are marginally useful - but certainly not essential. When you weed out the parasitic flag officer yes-men and the sado-neocons (neither of which have any respect among the rank-and-file), you are left with a few dozen flag officers that remember their oath. That's plenty.

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jul 1, 2016 7:49:32 PM | 89

Before the Russians came into Syria with their air force, a poster on another forum made the observation that the US was not bombing ISIS so much as shaping the battlefield for an ISIS take over of Syria. It seemed to me that since the end of the Bush administration and continuing through Obama that the US wants a countervailing Sunni army/force to Iran and its affiliates (Syria, Hezbollah). And if that Sunni force are radical mass murdering crazies, so be it. The game of neocon world domination is a-foot. The neocons are getting desperate as they see the Syrian/Russian/Hezbollah/Iran alliance as slowly winning the long game. Which is why the presumptive DoD head is advocating direct attacks on Syrian government positions--to stop the inevitable defeat of Nusrat Front and ISIS. So for right now until Hillary wins, shucking and jiving until NATO bombs fall on Assad after Jan. 2017 (inauguration).

Posted by: Erelis | Jul 1, 2016 8:53:29 PM | 90

@82 paveway.. sado-neocons.. i like that term that nmb coined on the other thread too!

i hope you are correct.. you have given yourself more room for optimism at any rate!

Posted by: james | Jul 1, 2016 10:05:36 PM | 91

Re: Posted by: ToivoS | Jul 1, 2016 12:41:39 PM | 75

Excellent summary. Putin and Lavrov are facing a real dilemma. They are reasserting Russia's national interests that were abandoned by Yeltsin and the US preferred Yeltin's Russia and is willing to risk war to achieve its aims. Thus Putin and Lavrov are trying to avoid WWIII while pursuing their policies. Their policies along their borders have been excellent. I am unsure it was wise to provoke the US in Syria though, In an all out fight (short of going nuclear) Russia can't win. They could bloody the US and probably clear the Baltic and Black Seas of US warships but they would be driven out of Syria.

Ah, really?

So you think it was right for Russia to abandon Syria, and in effect Iran & Iraq to NeoCon deprivations? And also abandon their gas "monopoly" on Europe?

I don't think so.

There is simply no way Russia could allow itself to be isolated like this. It would essentially force them into the arms of China whether that is what they wanted or not.

Holding two large markets for their resources in Europe & the Far East gives Russia flexibility. Abandoning Syria, and therefore Iraq & Iran in the process would leave them so isolated and weakened it would be a declaration of defeat.

They simply couldn't allow this.

Posted by: Jules | Jul 2, 2016 4:21:37 AM | 92

@89 pw, 'I will humbly suggest you are making the same mis-characterization as those that equate the actions of the U.S. government with the will and sensibility of U.S. people.'

Let me clarify a bit here. The US military is not a he or a she, 'it' is. It is a corrupt multi-trillon dollar organization that is number 1 in all the wrong categories ...

One might consider it to be like Old Yeller: once a faithful friend and helper ... in WW II ... if you ignore the war crimes. That's a long while ago. Since then it's been all downhill. It's a rabid beast now, for sure. It should have been put down after the war. There's no time like the present.

The mass of people in the US military are just like the mass of the rest of us Americans outside the US military ... most of us are not the ones who actually pull the triggers on the drones, but some of us do. Most of us don't build drones, but some of us do.

Is there such a difference between the ones who pull the drones' triggers and the ones who design and build the drones, other than that the latter are undoubtedly much higher paid?

Is there much difference between most of us in the US military and most us who are not who do nothing to end the series of shocking, awful aggressions undertaken by our US military and CIA over the past ... keep it focused ... 16 years?

The fact of the matter is that all of us Americans are responsible for the monstrous state to which we have allowed our country to sink. Yeah, it's hard to imagine us stopping the wars, but the requirement is ... whatever it takes. Who else has any responsibility at all for the US government? Who else is in any position to do so other than us Americans?

For all our brainwashed babble about ... the city on the hill, US exceptionalism, the free and the brave ... popular sovereignty under our constitution ... we're down in the dumps, utterly unexceptional, manifestly unfree and unbrave ... tred upon ... certainly no better and probably no worse in the aggregate than anyone else on this earth ...

But we do knowingly keep a rabid dog. Unchained. Free-ranging and vicious.

We need to put that dog down.

Posted by: jfl | Jul 2, 2016 8:07:52 AM | 93

PavewayIV @ 82 says:

Eventually, some one is going to open the gate and the few men of honor left are going to do what they know must be done

your Disneyesque vision of salvation is quaint. your beloved military will reconcile with its grotesque globe-spanning footprint only when the money is gone, when the extravagance and decay can no longer be bankrolled, when the px closes its doors and the sovereign real estate returns to local jurisdiction.

Posted by: john | Jul 2, 2016 8:29:05 AM | 94

@74,

Denis,

I speak only for myself, my thoughts and feelings about what is going on.

I would hope you come to the understanding that American citizens' anger and frustration manifests itself in many ways. We have been lied to for so long about so many things that when the realization hits us, individually, we react in different ways. The truth does not stand out, but it is always there. Have fun.

Posted by: b4real | Jul 2, 2016 8:57:01 AM | 95

@75 Toivos


Toivos, I respect your writing.

I am not one to engage in continuous back and forths. If you are willing, please expand upon Russia provoking the US in Syria. This statement baffles me.

Also, all it would take to end a war with US, (if there were no nukes) would be to bloody the u.s. enough that they could not hide their defeat. Right now Obama is hiding his New Syrian Army's devastation from us. Last I heard on the telly was that they had captured an airport. No word about the next days events. If you know where to look on the internet though, (and me and maybe 3 other Americans do :) we know they were destroyed and many were captured. (Some might say including "westerners", but all life is equally sacred in my eyes) American citizens will not stand for a war when the bodies coming home are known. FACT.

Please explain your statement regarding Russia provoking the U.S., because you have a viewpoint I value.

Thanks,

Posted by: b4real | Jul 2, 2016 9:20:52 AM | 96

@79,

Agreed. I was aware of the vote. End result: The same.

Keep posting. :)

Posted by: b4real | Jul 2, 2016 9:24:17 AM | 97


And here I was feeling all special about being "singled out" by Hoarsewhisperer" one of my favorite commenters. :) Bust my bubble.

"Sane" is a relative term.

#1: The decision makers and their chosen, will be miles below the Denver, Colorado Airport as these decisions are made. Stockpiled.

#2: Hubris. They have been, and are being told that Russia will back down. There are people in the world whom you compromise with, that see your capitulations as weakness. Take for example the post this thread is on. US is now offering to cooperate with Russia, but won't give gps coords not to be bombed, but will give geographic locations. Any sane person would have been bombing anything anti-Assad in Syria long ago after all the lies and deceit of the West, but sane is relative.

To answer your question, even in defeat, the leaders of this country believe that they will be able to make a deal with Russia that will enable them to continue in power. That is their sanity, hopefully not Putin's.

I'd like to read you more about this, truly. Our windows don't have the same view. I know these greedy people too well.

Do they want a war?

Yes

Do they need a war?

Only to maintain their status quo.

Are they concerned about surviving?

No.

Will they survive?

As surely as cockroaches.


Anthropology 101:

The survival of the species:

There are simple facts that must be accepted. Two sects of man spend countless hours gathering and hunting for food.

One man learned to plant seeds on an accident. Man crossing a creek during a storm, spilled all he had gathered. Returned to that spot much later and noticed the new growth. Once he knew he could grow food, he was set for life.

The other sect spent countless hours hunting and gathering food. They saw the other living a relatively leisurely life and disovered he was growing most of his food. This clan figured out they could survive by stealing the produce. These must be killed.


I hope this has answered your questions. I do like reading your comments.

Let's not forget B, a one of a kind host who has provided us this forum and the material to discuss. ^5

Take care.

Posted by: b4real | Jul 2, 2016 10:24:59 AM | 98

Posted by: b4real | Jul 2, 2016 10:24:59 AM | 98

Thanks for the excellent, frank and comprehensive answer. I was curious to discover whether the remarks which prompted my questions were based on having pondered the motivations of the chicken hawks and arrived at your own conclusions. You have clearly done so. I hope you won't be disappointed if I don't quibble/ nitpick your reply, but that would be too ungracious...

We are peas in the same pod regarding b and this blog.
You take care too b4real. And thanks again.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jul 2, 2016 11:18:51 AM | 99

b4real says:

The truth does not stand out, but it is always there

yes, grasshopper, like dust motes, always there, rarely seen.

:)

Posted by: john | Jul 2, 2016 12:48:09 PM | 100

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