Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 10, 2015

Obama Launches A Proxy War On Russia In Syria

For a moment it looked as if the U.S. was giving up on violent "regime change" in Syria. Under Russian pressure Secretary of State Kerry concided on September 29 that the outcome should be something that is not supported by the U.S. Gulf allies and proxy fighters of the war on Syria:

The United States and Russia agree on "some fundamental principles" for Syria, the U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said on Tuesday, adding that he plans to meet again with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Wednesday.

"There was agreement that Syria should be a unified country, united, that it needs to be secular, that ISIL (Islamic State) needs to be taken on, and that there needs to be a managed transition," Kerry told MSNBC ...

But instead of building on that agreement and of further working with the Russians, the U.S. is now slipping into a full war by proxy against the Russian Federation and especially with its contingent in Syria. Obama had claimed that he would not get drawn into a proxy war with Russia in Syria but his administration, the Pentagon and the CIA, is now doing all it can to create one. The Russian support for Syria is not limited. With the U.S. administration now moving into a position where war on Russia in Syria becomes the priority the fighting in and around Syria will continue for a long time.

The official Pentagon program to train Syrian insurgents will cease to vet, train, arm and support those mercenaries. But the program will not end. The Pentagon will simply shorten the process. It skips the vetting and training part and will arm and support anyone who proclaims to want to "fight ISIS":

The move marks an expansion of U.S. involvement in Syria’s protracted ground war and could expose the Obama administration to greater risks if weapons provided to a wider array of rebel units go astray, or if U.S.-backed fighters come under attack from forces loyal to Assad and his allies.
...
Under the new plan, leaders of groups already battling the Islamic State undergo vetting and receive a crash course in human rights and combat communications. Many of them have already received that training outside Syria, officials said.

Eventually the Pentagon plans to provide ammunition and basic weapons to those leaders’ fighters and would carry out airstrikes on targets identified by those units.

We know how well things go when some rogue proxies identify targets they want the U.S. air force to hit. The destroyed MSF hospital in Kunduz and the 50 something killed in the U.S. attack on it, on request of Afghan special forces, tell the story.

Significant military aid to those fighters, in an area where Islamist extremist groups are mixed with and often fighting beside moderate opposition rebels, would mark a departure from previous U.S. policy. A senior administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the matter, declined to give specifics on any new aid that might arrive in northwest Syria. But the official said that “these supplies will be delivered to anti-ISIL forces whose leaders were appropriately vetted,” and described them as “groups with diverse membership.”

That would be these diverse groups which all include al-Nusra/al-Qaeda, Ahrar al Shams and other Jihadis. Even if not directly given to them the fact that al-Qaeda demands a "toll" of 1/3 of all weapons going through its controls, and sometimes takes all, shows that this program is effectively a direct, though unacknowledged, armament program for al-Qaeda.

The new program is separate from a CIA-led effort to aid rebel factions in Syria. It was not immediately clear how Friday’s announcement might affect the CIA program.

The CIA runs a similar but much bigger program since 2012. Weapons are handed out to everyone who wants to take down the Syrian government. Most of those weapons have landed in the hands of the Islamic State or al-Qaeda.

Indeed it is the CIA, under its torture justifying chief Brennan, which has pushed the Obama administration away from Kerry's conceding statement and into a full blown proxy war with Russia.

Russia bombed some of the CIA'S trained, armed and paid groups. It had earlier asked the U.S. to tell it who not to bomb but didn't receive an answer. As the CIA mercenaries are fighting against the Syrian government and are practically not distinguishable from al-Qaeda, ISI or other terrorists they are a legitimate targets. But not in the eyes of the CIA which nevertheless finds Russian attacks on them useful:

Reports indicate that CIA-trained groups have sustained a small number of casualties and have been urged to avoid moves that would expose them to Russian aircraft. One U.S. official who is familiar with the CIA program — and who like other officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters — said the attacks have galvanized some of the agency-equipped units. “Now they get to fight the Russians,” the official said. “This improves morale.”
...
Brennan departed for the Middle East last week as the Russian strikes intensified. U.S. officials said that the trip was previously planned and not related to the bombings but acknowledged that his discussions centered on Syria.

...
The decision to dismantle the Pentagon’s training program — whose small teams of fighters were often quickly captured or surrendered their weapons to rival rebel groups in Syria — may force Obama to weigh ramping up support to the CIA-backed groups.

U.S. officials said those involved in the agency program are already exploring options that include sending in rocket systems and other weapons that could enable rebels to strike Russian bases without sending in surface-to-air missiles that terrorist groups could use to target civilian aircraft.

The person who told the Saudis to deliver 500 TOW missiles to Syria ASAP was likely CIA chief Brennan. He also ordered to plan for attacks on the Russian base.

So instead of a calming down and cooperation with Russia to fight the Islamic State the Pentagon was told to shorten its program and to hand out weapons to everyone who asks. The CIA is feeding more weapons to its mercenaries via its Gulf proxies and is planning for direct attacks on Russians.

The war on Syria, and now also on Russia, is unlikely to end in the near future. With the U.S. throwing more oil into the fire the war will burn not only in Syria but in every other country around it.

Two suicide bombers blew themselves up today at a rally of the Kurd friendly HDP party in Ankara. Some 90 people were killed and some 200 wounded. This is the biggest terrorist attack modern Turkey has ever seen. The Turkish government disconnected the country from Twitter and forbid any reporting about the terror attack. The HDP party is leftist and supports a peaceful struggle for Kurdish autonomy. The militant Kurdish PKK in Turkey is currently fighting skirmishes with Turkish security forces in the east of the country. It has now announced that it will stop all attacks unless when it is attacked first. The sister organization of the PKK in Syria, the YPK, is currently fighting against the Islamic State. Erdogan's AK-Party and his government have supported the Islamic State and al-Qaeda in Syria. It sees the HDP party and the Kurds in general as its enemies. As one Turkish non-AKP politician said today, the bloody incident in Ankara was either a total Turkish intelligence failure or a Turkish intelligence operation.

Whatever else it was, the bombing, very likely by Islamic State suicide bombers, is a sign of an ongoing destabilization of Turkey. The instability will increase further until there is a major policy change and a complete crackdown on any support for the Jihadis in Syria as well as a complete closure of the Turkish-Syrian border.

Today the Russian President Putin will meet the Saudi "young leader" deputy crown-prince Mohammed Salman-un. Can Putin read him the riot act and tell him to stop being a proxy in the U.S. war on Syria? One hopes so.

Posted by b on October 10, 2015 at 11:55 AM | Permalink

Comments
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Maybe some Chinese sanctions on Saudi oil are in order. Supporting terrorists that threaten your allies has to have a price. The fallout would be welcome.

Posted by: anon48 | Oct 10, 2015 12:21:44 PM | 1

Three main reasons for which NATO is not attacking Russia right now

Posted by: nmb | Oct 10, 2015 12:29:16 PM | 2

Kerry really seems out of the loop. ??? Did Hillary leave her minions all in place. Do we have a rogue CIA now? Or are they betting Hillary will be next POTUS? Or maybe Ben Carson who is ready to take on Russia. Plan never seems to change, not for last two decades.

Posted by: shadylady | Oct 10, 2015 12:29:16 PM | 3

Putin to Salman: If Russian aircraft are shot down because of you, Iran will get nuclear weapons from me.

Posted by: S | Oct 10, 2015 12:31:16 PM | 4

All it will achieve is to prolong the war and, as a result, flood Europe with many more millions of refugees. Russians can play this game longer than many of US' allies, including Jordan and Turkey. Greece may succumb the first.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 12:31:44 PM | 5

@4
Not going to happen, but the war in Yemen may become far more complicated, that's for sure. And Shiites in Saudi's oil provinces (majority Shia) may all of a sudden become restless and better armed. Instability in KAS will spike the oil prices and that will make Russian efforts almost cost-free.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 12:38:05 PM | 6

So basically it's CIA + special forces + air force (in support role) vs. Russia now. They can attack Russia, Iran, Hezbollah and attribute it to their proxies on the ground. If US air force hits any of them they can say "well, the 'rebels' called in that target'" and it becomes tit for tat with Russian air force hitting "US-backed assets" while US air force hits the Russian coalition.

Yeah, that's just brilliant. (Not)

What I don't understand is - do Obama & Brennan just cut the Pentagon and the generals out completely? Do they bypass them in running these operations? I have read something like that in the past about the conflict between Obama admin (and their covert ops) and the military command structure. It was a story written years ago about how Obama admin wanted the military to just jump up and implement their ideas and they got pushback from the military who said things needed planning, etc.

Posted by: gemini33 | Oct 10, 2015 12:53:16 PM | 7

We finally arrived to the point when Saudi/Qatari henchmen are starting to destroy Turkey. If Erdogan is a statesman, he'll have to pull the plug on his unholy alliance with Gulf Arabs.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 1:02:33 PM | 8

Beware bloggers:

Cold War II to McCarthyism II
June 8, 2015

Exclusive: With Cold War II in full swing, the New York Times is dusting off what might be called McCarthyism II, the suggestion that anyone who doesn’t get in line with U.S. propaganda must be working for Moscow, reports Robert Parry.

snip

Perhaps it’s no surprise that the U.S. government’s plunge into Cold War II would bring back the one-sided propaganda themes that dominated Cold War I, but it’s still unsettling to see how quickly the major U.S. news media has returned to the old ways, especially the New York Times, which has emerged as Official Washington’s propaganda vehicle of choice.

What has been most striking in the behavior of the Times and most other U.S. mainstream media outlets is their utter lack of self-awareness, for instance, accusing Russia of engaging in propaganda and alliance-building that are a pale shadow of what the U.S. government routinely does. Yet, the Times and the rest of the MSM act as if these actions are unique to Moscow.

BIG SNIP

USAID, working with billionaire George Soros’s Open Society, also funds the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project, which engages in “investigative journalism” that usually goes after governments that have fallen into disfavor with the United States and then are singled out for accusations of corruption. The USAID-funded OCCRP also collaborates with Bellingcat, an online investigative website founded by blogger Eliot Higgins.

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/06/08/cold-war-ii-to-mccarthyism-ii/

Soros is coming to get us. :) Look for uptick in trolls. Hope Operation Summer Rains trolls have retired.

Posted by: shadylady | Oct 10, 2015 1:05:32 PM | 9

Russian 'diplomacy' with the neighbors on Syria's porous borders has the potential to dilute the outcomes of this latest bluster. Who are the Yankees trying to kid? It's inconceivable that the Russians went into Syria expecting their Save Syria campaign to be a happy-go-lucky picnic. The trouble with figuring out what Russia is going to next is that they don't bluster enough, so everyone except Russia is surprised when they make a move, Obama.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 10, 2015 1:05:47 PM | 10

b, thank you for such an adept summary of the US position. I stared & stared yesterday at a NYT article which seemed to alternate between fighters which "pledge" to fight ISIS and descriptions of them as "rebels". John McCain's statement that the administration was inexplicably refusing to fight Assad was my only hope. I just couldn't make sense of it & you have done so. Thank you.

This wd be just awful were it not for Russia's ability to block some of it. Obviously they can't bomb Syria w the Russian no-fly in place. But since Russian & American planes are flying out of the same airport in Iraq there's obviously not a no-fly there. So Russia will have a tough time shutting off any weapons flow from Iraq to Syria-- however well they do at closing other entry point.

Do I have that right? Could someone who understands the military situation comment?

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10, 2015 1:06:22 PM | 11

@ MMARR | 6

the war in Yemen may become far more complicated, that's for sure. And Shiites in Saudi's oil provinces (majority Shia) may all of a sudden become restless and better armed. Instability in KAS will spike the oil prices and that will make Russian efforts almost cost-free.

Precisely, same with Turkey. If it becomes personal for Russians (or Iranians, if more of their generals return in coffins), then countries responsible for it will feel very sorry they started the hell which will burn their houses down.

Its not like its very hard to do - some shipments of modern weapons to houthis (there are no impenetrable blockades). Plus some groups of small professional commandos to sabotage oil infrastructure, and without oil Saudis would fold faster than say 'oh shi*' Russia and Iran have plenty of modern man-carried precise missiles which can do major damage from big distances. Its probably something what CIA is planning to attack Russian bases with in Syria, and similar RU/Iran's weapons can very quickly find much easier targets in Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: Harry | Oct 10, 2015 1:09:08 PM | 12

@ Penelope

vis-a-vis your comment about the divide between the executive and the military:

http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/10/432800/US-warship-Persian-Gulf

Maintenance? Now? hmmm.....

Posted by: BOG | Oct 10, 2015 1:13:35 PM | 13

Best defense for Russia is the ability to retaliate in kind. Yemen against KSA and PKK against Turkey. It doesn't mean they won't arm the terrorists, but it does mean it will be costly for them. And the Russians can always play the "gee it looks like your manpads fell into the wrong hands and they went and shot down an Aapache in Iraq."

Posted by: Lysander | Oct 10, 2015 1:16:14 PM | 14

@ Penelope | 11

So Russia will have a tough time shutting off any weapons flow from Iraq to Syria-- however well they do at closing other entry point.

Why it would be a problem of bombing jihadis convoys between Iraq and Syria? Just because US didnt do it, doesnt mean Russia wont, regardless if they use them same Iraq airports or not. Not like US can come and say to Russian pilots "we forbid you to bomb terrorists convoys". Pilots would just laugh and send US to bear's behind :)

Posted by: Harry | Oct 10, 2015 1:18:33 PM | 15

@12 Harry
Agreed.
Russians can exploit so many vulnerabilities of their real and purported adversaries, it's not even a contest. Saudi Arabia, for one, is sitting in a mother od all glass houses, while threatening to lob boulders at everyone around it. It'd be funny if not for a carnage that is ongoing.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 1:24:00 PM | 16

@ Penelope 13, or just too big of a target if things get dicey. BIG hmmmm.

I am beginning to think between CIA, Whitehouse and Pentagon there is no clear path or leader. Rogue elements? Pissed off Generals?

Posted by: shadylady | Oct 10, 2015 1:26:47 PM | 17

what is the disconnect between the us admin and the cia? is this some sort of good guy, bad guy routine that they like to have going? are they supposed to make out like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing too? looks like the cia is calling the shots... so much for that friggin' democracy joke under the nobel peace prizer's command..

actually i think skipping the vetting and training of those working for the usa administration and the cia is a huge problem.. they can do that when they want to put weapons in isis's hands to overthrow assad, but they need to stop doing it to their own country as it's doing to blow up in their face..on 2nd thought maybe they are hoping for regime change in the usa! that's one way to get an amerikkkan regime change in your own country - destroy it..

i am sorry to hear of the horrible event in ankara.. i can't imagine sultan erdogan being happy about it either..who advises this dipstick? or, is that an example of how things will go better with isis?

Posted by: james | Oct 10, 2015 1:26:51 PM | 18

This is where Iran comes in...
It is clear that if the USA starts a proxy war in Syria against Russia, Iran will retaliate by hitting the USA ally, Saudi Arabia, in Yemen.
In parallel to Saudi Arabia arming Syrian rebels, we will see Iran (and Russia) arming the Houthis in Yemen. I expect heavy military escalation on the Saudi Yemeni border soon

Posted by: Virgile | Oct 10, 2015 1:45:51 PM | 19

It seems to me, and has for some time, that the intelligence services (pick your acronym, since they are all sharing metadata)are rogue, and able to blackmail their way into doing as they please for the most part. The military is far from immune to this nor are politicians.

If we assume that everyone in congress or the executive that cold do something has their hands tied to avoid personal ruination, does the scenario fit? And never forget the acronym contingent is deeply in bed and having kinky sex with the 6 media kingpins - it doesn't even have to be true to ruin a politician, even more so with their abysmal performances. Everyone cheers when one goes down in flames, but who sets the match and is the tinder real?

The disinfo stench makes it hard to even think, but it seems to me that this may be plausible. Within that, you would have turf wars between the acronyms as well - hypercomplexity breeds disaster in many ways.

Posted by: BOG | Oct 10, 2015 1:46:05 PM | 20

@17 shadylady
Impotence is an unfamiliar feeling in DC, so they are all "pissed" right now. Generals, politicos, arms merchants, lobbyists, think tankers, all of them. They are scrambling for a response, but can't find a single one that wouldn't lead to a worsening of their position.
We are witnessing the last gasp of American hegemony, and the process is natural and irreversible.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 1:51:14 PM | 21

nmb @2, Thanks for the link. One of the 3 reasons it gives for US not attacking Russia is that Russia is needed to clean up the US mess in Syria. I agree and evidently some faction in the US with Obama as its point-man agrees. However this faction is so weak that it cannot even seem to speak out forthrightly, but relies on undermining the neocon strategy, which remains the same. The unipolarists are still determined upon absolute rule generally-- and destruction of Syria and its govt specifically.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10, 2015 2:00:19 PM | 22

@ MMARR @ BOG @ James, I love reading Pepe Escorbar and M.K. Bhadrakumar

NATO all dressed up, nowhere to go in Syria

Neither Erdogan nor Russian President Vladimir Putin is spoiling for a fight. By the way, what actually happened over the weekend on the Turkish-Syrian border too is shrouded in mystery and increasingly it seems Ankara and Moscow are in some foreplay over new ground rules for the non-existent Turkish-Syrian border.

From Erdogan’s latest remarks, he seems to be tapping down tensions.

snip
The European Union’s proposal to ‘assist’ Turkey in handling the refugee flow from Syria is a case in point. The EU offers to subsidize Turkey financially provided Ankara kept custody of the Syrian refugees. Ankara has an open mind – everything depends on how generous the EU funding will be. Clearly, $1.5 billion is ‘peanuts’.

Turkey does not want foreign troops to come and defend it. Its preference is that the US and Germany would change their mind and allowed the Patriot batteries to remain in Turkey. (Alas, they are not agreeable.)
snip

A broad Turkish-Russian understanding over Syria may even emerge out of it. Erdogan will most certainly expect Putin not to arm the Syrian Kurds.

MORE: http://atimes.com/2015/10/nato-all-dressed-up-nowhere-to-go-in-syria/

Always love Escobar, waiting for his next article:
http://atimes.com/category/empire-of-chaos/

Posted by: shadylady | Oct 10, 2015 2:04:53 PM | 23


Obama, shaking hands with a terrorist, as Putin walks in unexpectedly, surprising him:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQ55GdCUcAA_dWH.jpg

Posted by: cfontaine | Oct 10, 2015 2:05:34 PM | 24

Shady Lady @3, "Do we have a rogue CIA now?"

Did you know that CIA has NO Congressional oversight now? With no threat of hearings, they're running free.

It seems that most of the military/foreign policy establishment is actively pushing the neocon unipolarist adventurism. More like those who are active in trying to dilute its actions are the rogue element. Obama, I am convinced, is trying even while covering himself w a milder version of neocon rhetoric. I never thought I wd approve anything about such a liar.

He weakened the Pentagon's program to send in fighters, but I don't think there's anything he can do against the CIA. I guess he still appoints the director, but making that change wd be an awfully dangerous move.

Does anyone know if there are elements in the military who resist the military adventurism for whom McCain and the neocons are the point-men?

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10, 2015 2:16:15 PM | 25

shadylady @23: Turkey is the easiest. Election in weeks and leverage everywhere for Russia. Does Turkey want another Kurdistan lining its entire southern border with Syria? That can be done. Watch the battle for Aleppo: the Kurds are already talking about throwing in with Russia and Syria. Things could move very fast and positively for the anti-CIA alliance.

Posted by: fairleft | Oct 10, 2015 2:19:48 PM | 26

MMAR @ 6, " And Shiites in Saudi's oil provinces (majority Shia) may all of a sudden become restless and better armed. "

Good point, also about the likely appreciation of oil prices.

However, the Russians tend to be pretty cautious about increasing disorder. Or, at least that's one explanation for their not supplying Iran & Syria for heavy-dut anti-aircraft years ago.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10, 2015 2:22:44 PM | 27

A man to know, the guy that visited Putin recently:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qasem_Soleimani


@Everyone. It very well might be rogue agents trying to dethrone the the neo-con agenda. If that's how it is, more power to them. Snowdens in the making?? Low level analysts getting the goods on everyone? Wish we knew what was going on....

Visit here, just for the photo alone:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-10/damascus-debacle-how-cia-handed-over-syria-putin-silver-platter

Posted by: shadylady | Oct 10, 2015 2:29:24 PM | 28

@11 Penelope
It's a real study to read the articles from the NYT and other big media outlets here on the subject of Syria and particularly the "rebels". The concoction of terms that have been used over the past couple of years and especially since ~ June is mind boggling. At one point I had started collecting them. "Moderate rebels" morphed into "relatively moderate insurgents" and all kinds of other permutations.

It's also interesting to note the way they refer to their numerous anonymous sources. We have become a Propaganda Wonderland.

Posted by: gemini33 | Oct 10, 2015 2:35:41 PM | 30

And yesterday China launched their CIPS as well....no bearing on our threats about the Spratly's, I am sure...

Posted by: BOG | Oct 10, 2015 2:35:48 PM | 31

I watched a documentary on hackers on Netflix (The Hacker Wars which featured Thomas Drake who pointed out that one of numerous problems with using contracted "spooks" rather than those within the normal military/intelligence chain of command is that they have no incentive in avoiding conflict or being cautious -- that the renewal and expansion of contract players contracts is contingent on ongoing and/or increased threat ... with "peaceful" or diplomatic settlments threatening a "game over" scenario.

The incessant "mixed messages" of the purported "Obama Administration" may be due to too many cooks (reminiscent of the incredible intelligence disconnects during the early days of Gulf War II when "strategy changes" were announced every two weeks, if not more often -- as government experts contradicted each other on live broadcasts ...)
It was sad and sobering to recognize how long ago, how "yesterday" the convictions of Hammond, Manning and others seems to have become ... not to mention Assange and WikiLeaks. Anyway -- the message seesm to be "pay no attention to the man behind the podium" (but most had already figured that out ... except that in "real crisis" that void is felt more acutely).

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | Oct 10, 2015 2:39:00 PM | 32

@25 Penelope
McCain, Lindsey, Rubio, Cotton and other "unstable" personalities decide grand total of nothing in US foreign policy. They are encouraged to talk tough only insofar as it softens up the foreign interlocutors for the "responsible" players like Obama and Kerry. The "responsibles" can always point to the "lunatics" and extract concessions from frightened opposite side.
People who take their bluster seriously are making a mistake, because that's exactly their goal. Yet it's simply a bluster, a theater, and nothing more.
Therefore, nobody in the US military "resists their adventurism", because they are all part of the same team, only with different roles.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 2:42:38 PM | 33

not for posting --
b, the word you want in the second line of your piece is "conceded", not "concided". I would not mention it, except that it takes longer than usual to see through the mistake, so is a waste of time and focus.

Posted by: sarz | Oct 10, 2015 2:45:05 PM | 34

Proxy wars were how the Cold War 1.0 was fought, and after a brief hiatus, that's how the new Cold War 2.0 will be fought, what has changed is the weaponry and the type of warfare, mainly from guerrilla wars of liberation in Africa, Asia, and Latin America, to hybrid and asymmetrical warfare. The empire will not cede an inch of their unipolar delusion, and will fight to defeat Russia/China/Iran aspirations for a multipolar world.

On another note, Erdogan is setting himself up for a landslide defeat at the polls or a military coup d'etat, he's made so many enemies in the Turkish army and body politic, that combined with his erratic personal behavior and foreign/internal policies, and his delusions of grandeur, are not a good omen for his future. If Turkey still had any illusions re: membership in the EU, Erdogan and the recent suicide bombings just kill them for time to come, and la Merkel now has more ammunition to throw at Turkey's EU aspirations.

Welcome to the, now official, Cold War 2.0!

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 10, 2015 2:49:58 PM | 35

Okay here's maybe a whole entirely different way to view the situation.

Maybe the proxy war is not (at this time) primarily directed at Russia. At least at the present time, that would be rather hopeless.

Maybe the proxy war is actually directed at Turkey. Turkey just might have more severe social chaos than any other country, and I get the strong impression that the Western Axis despises Erdogan immensely. Especially Israel and their “new” friends, the Saudis. You’ll note that some very odd things have been going on in Turkey lately.

Now if Syria's President Bashar Al-Assad is overthrown, or maybe even if just if enough turmoil is stirred up, this could lead to the downfall of the hated Erdogan.

(I'm not championing Erdogan here, just pointing out a possibility.)

Posted by: blues | Oct 10, 2015 2:58:25 PM | 36

@shadylady@28

A man to know, the guy that visited Putin recently:

Yup, together with Putin, that's the man of the hour, but I don't think Wikipedia is a good source for a balanced portrait of Qassem Suleimani. Try this one instead.

The Shadow Commander

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 10, 2015 3:09:01 PM | 37

Penelope @22. Thank you. I'm afraid things can get worse with the 2016 US elections. Any GOP will certainly promote the neocon agenda, but also Hillary will adopt such policies. I doubt that the US deep state will let any chance for Sanders.

Posted by: nmb | Oct 10, 2015 3:10:06 PM | 38

@27 Penelope
Russians are far more cautious than Americans, because they have had more 1000 years to hone their diplomacy, and are acutely aware that blowback is an inevitable consequence of any poorly though-out action and/or overreach. Americans are still learning the "a","b" and "c" of the craft, and maybe even regressing since the end of the Cold War.
So, Moscow will definitely refrain from any preemptive action with regard to undermining Saudis or Turks. They usually prefer to sit and watch, to talk and to calculate the odds, and only then move a figure on a chessboard. Americans move first and think later, believing they can always kill the opponent, if the game develops not to their liking.
As for Russia not supplying Syria or Iran with S-300, I think that was done mostly in order not to alarm and antagonize the West prematurely, while Russia's military was moving swiftly on the path of wholesale reorganization and modernization. In Putin's world, it seems, everything has its own time and its own place.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 3:11:58 PM | 39

@39
"more than 1000 years"....

I wish the comment section of this blog had an "edit" option.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 3:20:49 PM | 40

@ 38
United States is getting weaker every day, week and year. It has no spare resources for hardcore "neocon agenda". America is already in retreat (witness Cuba and Iran "deals"). Don't be fooled by a rhetoric, it's there only to mask a weakness.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 3:26:10 PM | 41

The Russians must have had a very clear understanding that when they attacked those "al Nusra" and other "moderate" targets in Northern Syria that they that these forces were being supplied and encouraged by the CIA. Russia knowingly attacked US backed forces. Perhaps Obama and Kerry are too stupid to realize what that means. What it means is that there are very powerful forces inside the US government and military that will see this as an attack on the United States of America and that we must respond to that aggression. I hope that Obama is starting to understand what he is up against. He should be trying to bring those agencies under control. Any tiny efforts to neutralize those War Party forces with compromise will only make matters worse. It is time exert executive control over these groups and execute top level purges if they resist. Somehow this seems unlikely.

I hope Putin and Lavrov thought this through before they acted. The outcome could be very dangerous indeed. I was terribly worried last week when the Russian attack began that it would produce a strong reaction inside the US government among all of those war monger plants inside State, the military and intelligence agencies that have been slowly gaining power for the last decade. All of that cheering we have been hearing over the last week here at MOA has been serious -- representatives of the US hegemon do not like to be ridiculed.

Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 10, 2015 3:34:37 PM | 42

BOG @ 13, I don't think it's a divide between the executive & military. I think the majority of each is committed to an aggressive foreign policy. Obama I think is resisting it and only giving rhetorical agreement. I'm not sure who else is in the resistors' faction.


Thanks for posting about the withdrawal of the USS Theodore Roosevelt "just one day after Russian missile strikes from the Caspian. Didn't make sense to me, cuz Russians aren't threatening ships.

In fact, departure was well telegraphed in advance: In April, June & July. Announcement was that for first time since 2007 there wd be a two month gap in the Fall w/o an aircraft carrier in the Gulf. Replacement in December. Reason: Only 10 active now, stead of 11 & ideal maintenace schedule is 7 months deployment; as it is we're deploying for 8 months. Oct 5 announced imminent departure, day before Rusian missiles.

This was potentially important; thanks for posting it.
The links are boring. Don't bother; I only posted them for completeness.
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/assessing-the-u.s.-aircraft-carrier-gap-in-the-gulfTh Oct 5, announcing imminent departure
http://breakingdefense.com/2015/06/carrier-gap-in-gulf-is-a-symptom-not-a-crisis/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/30/navy-admiral-confirms-us-pulling-aircraft-carrier-from-persian-gulf-this-fall/

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10, 2015 3:36:53 PM | 43

At least on the internet there's a sizeable backlash against the Obama policies re syria. As the operations continue on, the political will should diminish, and the neocons will try to find some new act of arson to attempt.. maybe it will be turkey, or armenia, or pakistan, or kazakhstan, or China.. I imagine that they'll attempt something

Posted by: bbbbb | Oct 10, 2015 3:38:46 PM | 44

@42 '... representatives of the US hegemon do not like to be ridiculed.'


Don't worry, they'll get used to it.

Posted by: crone | Oct 10, 2015 3:39:22 PM | 45

@Mina@29

Very good link, Mina, as usual. It is rare to see an article with an insight of what's going on inside Syria, besides propaganda I mean, much less about the political actors and processes happening in the middle of Syria's perfect storm.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 10, 2015 3:52:09 PM | 47

@42
If you get worried every time some thin-necked lawyer in Washington opens his mouth trying to talk like Hulk Hogan - you'll get ulcers. Don't do it. Look at the actions, not words. And actions (cutting the size of US military, telling Japan to arm itself, retreat on Cuba and Iran, softening on Venezuela and Ukraine) betray progressing paralysis and desperation.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 3:53:42 PM | 48

@crone@45

Don't worry, they'll get used to it.

I am cracking up. Hopefully they will, or they will get ulcers... :-)

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 10, 2015 4:02:34 PM | 49

The Russians surely anticipated such a move from the US so i assume Putin has a counter move for the US. China's participation would certainly supply that but there are lots of things Putin can do, many are mentioned above.

The US plan (export ISIS and Al Qaida to balkanize) is extremely defective because it also threatens the stability and even existence of traditional US stooges like Packistan, Jordan, Egypt, etc, and it also inflicts massive economic pain and an immigration crisis upon Europe.

I doubt US allies will be able to endure this US push to implement Brzezinki's nefarious plot and Israel's similar plan for the ME. I expect some major defections from the US camp.

Saudi, Qatar, and UAE have exported terrorism with complete impunity for decades now. Russia, Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, etc need to do something rather direct about that or it will continue. The American people should do something as well but we're brainwashed idiots.

Posted by: alaric | Oct 10, 2015 4:04:07 PM | 50

IMO the lack of western reaction is due to two things - 1) Russians have some toys that the west can't neutralize and 2) Europe wants to survive and wants no war anyway

I think the arab statements are pure posturing, they'll basically trade Syria for Yemen in the end.

Erdogan played both east and west and betrayed both. He has no future, this way or the other. The current chaos there could come from both sides just as well.

Posted by: zedz | Oct 10, 2015 4:06:51 PM | 51

John McQeada [The singing canary with a yellow streak down his back] said."He [Putin] had a Russian General show up in our embassy in Baghdad an hour before it starts, and whats the first target, the people we are supporting and arming and training and equipping. What better way to stick their thumb in our eye". Pyongyang once correctly called John Bolton "Human scum"
that epithet and more applies to McCain.

Posted by: harry law | Oct 10, 2015 4:09:53 PM | 52

gemini33 @30:

"We have become a Propaganda Wonderland."

The US has become Humpty-Dumpty, claiming "words mean what I want them to mean."

We all know what happened to Humpty-Dumpty...

Posted by: Vintage Red | Oct 10, 2015 4:12:00 PM | 53

@ 43 Penelope

I should have said 'intelligence' rather than executive. The CIA has long been growing in a spectacular and tentacular fashion, especially since 911 and sans accountability. Since intelligence is eyes and ears, they control the picture. Omission or obfuscation of certain items is simple to accomplish - which is why the military wants their own intelligence.

Secondly, regardless of 'maintenance' and schedules, if this was an important projection of power, then the Teddy Roos would have simply been resupplied. This happens all the time when required. It is interesting that rather than simply resupply, which is easy considering where they were stationed, the 'maintenance schedule' was adhered to. And crews can be rotated as well, even if it is a little more expensive.

Nope - letting the Teddy Roos leave the area in the middle of this is either a tacit admission of the 'jig is up' or something else...

Posted by: BOG | Oct 10, 2015 4:20:03 PM | 54

crone | Oct 10, 2015 3:39:22 PM

Funny. I hope you are right. But me, I am a worry wort. World super powers do not normally accept new realities easily (i.e. they are no longer the world's most powerful and influential nation). Going back a few centuries think of Portugal, Spain, France, Germany and England -- their withdrawal as hegemons, or major candidates from that role, were very messy and bloody indeed.

I do hope that Putin and Lavrov know what they are doing.

Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 10, 2015 4:44:27 PM | 55

The bomb attack in Ankara weakens Erdogan's position. No matter who planted the bomb. He's clearly on the way out. The next major event will be a military coup in which Erdogan's will be deposed.

Posted by: Willy2 | Oct 10, 2015 4:58:19 PM | 56

SusanSunflower @32, What I try to ignore, as much as I can, is the rhetoric: the words that merely characterize things-- rather than the words of INTENT, which are important.

Officially, Obama's OK is needed to arm militants w anti-aircraft; he has not given it. His ok is needed for a no-fly; he de-constructed the unstated one (the Patriots)-- and the shortlived one by Erdogan & Allen. He said that he is not going to confront Russia over Syria. He has (intermittently) said he wants a negotiated settlement in Syria.

Ashton Carter (Defense) & Brennan (CIA) say they will increase arms to rebels & give them radio gear to call in air strikes. Ability to call in airstrikes will only work in Iraq. I am surprised that arms have not yet been blocked at the Jordanian, Israeli & Turkish borders, but b says they haven't.

The situation wd be improved if Iraq wd toss out the US. Maybe he's waiting for them to finish up in Syria.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10, 2015 5:01:40 PM | 57

cleaning up the terrorists is like cleaning up cockroaches...

does no good to clean only one area of a building, etc. at the moment the roaches are running out of Syria into Iraq, so that will have to be dealt with at some point. I'm confident Putin is aware of this and doesn't need me to point it out.

Posted by: crone | Oct 10, 2015 5:16:10 PM | 58

Please don't hate me because I was right, once again.

Believing John Kerry in saying that he agrees to a secular stable Syria was bullshit from the first breath that came out of his mouth.
Like I said weeks ago when b and others here gave Kerry the benefit of the doubt, which was never deserved. How could Kerry be a proven unreliable liar in regards to Ukraine, but he's capable of telling the truth in Syria ?! it makes no sense. Desperate, wishful thinking.
The Empire is scrambling for answers and actions due to Russia's surprise intervention in Syria and it's a simple as that. Read my post from yesterday. Once they decide on a course of despicable action, it will become much clearer in the next few weeks or months.

And when Russia inevitably becomes Iraqs foreign helpful power, replacing the US there, then expect far more US support for jihadi terrorists. If the US is left out of the loop in Iraq, they will counter that with more jihadis and more weapons. It's why they are the evil empire and the Great Satan.

Oh, and that time frame of the Russian involvement in Syria will be only four months, like I said was bullshit yesterday, guess what, it's time to hate tom again, because I was spot on there too.

Weeks ago I mentioned that this Russian in intervention is not a riskless, easy program that's so many Putin-bots were desperate for. One can either describe reality, or be a biased self-credibility eviserator.
The evil US Empire is super pissed and they are going to double down instead of retreat.

Posted by: tom | Oct 10, 2015 5:30:31 PM | 59

Me @59.

My criticism above is not necessarily directed at b, but more-so at some commentators here.

Posted by: tom | Oct 10, 2015 5:34:03 PM | 60

In Ankara, police blocked ambulances from attending to the victims, who were mostly Kurds. Given that fact, it's very likely the bombs were planted by Erdogan's goons, not Daesh. Also, cutting off twitter is another act that points to the government as the bomber. http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/10/10/explosions-rock-turkish-peace-rally-police-block-ambulances-trying-help-victims

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 10, 2015 5:45:01 PM | 61

@57 Penelope

In geopolitics the words of intent almost always hide the real intent. They are meaningless.

All of this verbal saber-rattling is nothing more than psy-ops, the lowest cost form of warfare. People are simply trying no nudge the Russians to engage in talks, as well as enhance their own position at the negotiating table. US government also has to calm down the viewers of FOX News. Moscow understands that.

My prediction - neither the West nor the Gulf Arabs (who operate some of the world's biggest and fines airlines) will supply high-tech anti-aircraft weapons to head choppers. Russians produce the best such toys in the world, and the blowback for this "act of war" could be vicious.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 5:50:11 PM | 62

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I have a gun. I give it and money to someone I barely know and tell that person to use it to kill as many people as he can. When he runs out of money and/or needs more ammo and weapons, I provide them. Aren't I guilty of contract killing--murder for hire? And if I am, then why isn't every member of the Outlaw Empire's government that's doing the same thing?

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 10, 2015 5:50:56 PM | 63

@59 tom.. and i agree with you..

@63 karlof1.. the international world badly needs some accountability.. none has been provided from the usa to date which is mostly a reflection of it's rogue nature.. the un and a number of other so called international bodies, including the world financial bodies like the imf, world bank and etc - same thing.. no accountability.. do they really think people are that stupid to not see all the hypocrisy, if not open support for terrorism, murder and poverty these leaders and institutions are directly responsible for? they better not, as there are many people with eyes wide open seeing the bullshite for what it is.. a day or reckoning may still be a ways away, but it is coming..

Posted by: james | Oct 10, 2015 5:59:05 PM | 64

Lone Wolf / 35,

"On another note, Erdogan is setting himself up for a landslide defeat at the polls or a military coup d'etat, he's made so many enemies in the Turkish army and body politic, that combined with his erratic personal behavior and foreign/internal policies, and his delusions of grandeur, are not a good omen for his future. If Turkey still had any illusions re: membership in the EU, Erdogan and the recent suicide bombings just kill them for time to come, and la Merkel now has more ammunition to throw at Turkey's EU aspirations."

Yeah, I can't imagine his winning an honest election. He had planned to alter the constitution to put all the power into the hands of the executive, making himself near-dictator. Instead, last election he lost 20 more seats to the HDP, the Kurdish party that's now become mainstream. Also lost another 20 to the Nationalist party, which is allergic to any talk of federalization for the Kurds. So he didn't have enough seats to push thru his dictator plan. He refused to form a coalition govt: what good is that for a would-be dictator? Then he tried to find a way to JAIL the seated parliamentarians who are his opposition. He's attacked journalists, academics, the independent judiciary. He loses his temper publicly & really I think he's unbalanced. He habitually uses MIT intel services to manipulate the public via "incidents" like the current one.

It's a little-known story that when he began considering sending the Turkish army into Syria, they told him they'd need a written order signed by the new (nonexistent) coalition govt. If he should manage by hook or crook to form an all-AKP govt, and order the army into Syria, there wd be a coup. He's a psychopath w/o the discretion to hide it & unfortunately has full control of the intell services.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10, 2015 6:01:50 PM | 65

"On Friday, Russian air power “destroyed two command centres of the militants, an ammunition depot in the Hama Province, 29 field camps, 23 fortified stations and positions with ammunition and equipment.”
Radio intercepts revealed ISIS now faces a shortage of fuel, weapons, ammunition and increasingly the will to fight in the face of an onslaught against which they’re defenseless.
Thousands “are demoralized and are actively leaving the battle zone, moving in eastern and northeastern directions,” Konashenkov explained.
Areas targeted in the last 24 hours included Raqqa (the main ISIS stronghold), Hama, Idlib, the Damascus countryside and Aleppo."http://sjlendman.blogspot.co.uk/ Not bad for a start, won't do McCains health any good.

Satellite images located a hidden Idlib province command center. “After analysis of pictures from space and after air reconnaissance by drones,” Russian air strikes destroyed it.

Posted by: harry law | Oct 10, 2015 6:06:25 PM | 66

@Penelope@65

He's a psychopath w/o the discretion to hide it & unfortunately has full control of the intell services.

I agree. He reminds me of another psychopath from another time, different mustache, same delusions.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 10, 2015 6:27:59 PM | 67

James @64--

Thanks for taking time to reply. I'm 60 and been a student of the Outlaw Empire for most of those years, but I hadn't thought of events in quite that manner previously. I suppose since it's all done in the name of the government, individuals can't be prosecuted, except at Nuremburg.

Thanks again for replying; most don't.

Posted by: karlof1 | Oct 10, 2015 6:40:17 PM | 68

"At least 50 Labour MPs are prepared to defy Jeremy Corbyn by backing military action to protect civilians in Syria, it has emerged, as cross-party support grows for a new and comprehensive strategy to end the crisis." http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/10/labour-mps-defy-jeremy-corbyn-on-syria Lord Falconer said any action in Syria must be legal. There's the problem, it would not be legal, unless invited in by the legitimate Syrian government. The R2P theory can only be pursued through the UNSC, one veto means the pursuit of R2P would be illegal. I wonder how many of those alleged 50 Labour MP's know that.

Posted by: harry law | Oct 10, 2015 6:42:07 PM | 69

@69 harry law

Brits will be perfectly ready to fight, when the fight is over.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 6:55:11 PM | 70

nmb / 38,
"I'm afraid things can get worse with the 2016 US elections. Any GOP will certainly promote the neocon agenda, but also Hillary will adopt such policies. I doubt that the US deep state will let any chance for Sanders."

It's a year and more before we have a new President. A lot can happen. If Iraq kicks US out & lets Russia/Iran/Hezbolla handle it, it'll be over before there's a new Prez. I expect Ukraine to be settled by then, too-- along the lines of Minsk2.

Also, sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. Hillary wd be the worst, but in action she's the most transparently evil. Impossible to see the future. I think the most important is to fight the supranational institutions that form the organization and legal architecture of the developing global oligarchy: the IMF/WTO/BIS, TPP & the other mega-trade agreements.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10, 2015 7:01:09 PM | 71

In the mist of WW3...China asks again. I guess timing is everything.

China makes fresh push for yuan inclusion in IMF basket

China made a fresh push for its yuan currency to be included in the International Monetary Fund’s benchmark currency basket on Friday and argued that recent reforms put it closer to qualifying.

Beijing is pushing for the yuan, also known as the renminbi (RMB), to be included in the IMF’s Special Drawing Rights basket as part of its long-term strategic goal of reducing dependence on the dollar.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/asian-pacific-business/china-makes-fresh-push-for-yuan-inclusion-in-imf-basket/article26760904/

@P 71...............Hillary scares the bejesus out of me. That's one angry woman. Angry, entitled and arrogant. Perfect Storm. Yikes! And like I said before, Libya and Syria are Hillary's wars, IMO.

Posted by: shadylady | Oct 10, 2015 7:24:53 PM | 72

HL@66

The Russians are certainly good at self-promotion and propaganda bombing. Reading this detailed report you would think they face a conventional army in the Islamic State who sit in buildings waiting for orders while the bombs fall. The IS is a nonconventional force an Urban Guerilla force dispersed across the country in small groups and if there was a command center it was evacuated and empty when bombed just as the training facilities/ school yards were empty.

The IS fighters were running during this bombing spree but they were running to capture new territory from other rebel groups that the Russians softened up for them.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 10, 2015 7:33:26 PM | 73

@72
Hillary's anger is fake, but her cluelessness is genuine.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 7:34:43 PM | 74

@73
The point is that Syrian Army is capturing new territory and moving steadily towards Idlib. The rest is a technicality, one on which bottom-feeders at western MSM are welcome to dwell all they want. One ISIS regiment's spanking of another jihadi outfit doesn't negate the fact that Russian Air Force is doing one splendid job.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 7:46:22 PM | 75

Obama's not going to fire any warhawks (such as Brennan). Obama knows what happened to JFK for firing warhawk nutjob CIA director Allen Dulles. Obama can see the cashiers window from where he sits by the exit door.

Posted by: fast freddy | Oct 10, 2015 7:48:32 PM | 76

LoneWolf @35 said: " The empire will not cede an inch of their unipolar delusion, and will fight to defeat Russia/China/Iran aspirations for a multipolar world."

Yep, and as long as the dollar reins, they'll create all they need to meet their goals.

nmb @ 38 said: "I'm afraid things can get worse with the 2016 US elections. Any GOP will certainly promote the neocon agenda, but also Hillary will adopt such policies. I doubt that the US deep state will let any chance for Sanders."

Agreed. It's the money people, til' that changes, nothing changes. Go BRICS, go!

Posted by: ben | Oct 10, 2015 7:56:14 PM | 77

To blunt the drive of the evil empire, someones gonna' have to go all in.

Posted by: ben | Oct 10, 2015 8:00:01 PM | 78

@karlof1 | Oct 10, 2015 5:45:01 PM | 61

You cited the website “Common Dreams” article “Explosions Rock Turkish Peace Rally; Police Block Ambulances Trying to Help Victims”. What is this, The Boston Marathon?
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/10/10/explosions-rock-turkish-peace-rally-police-block-ambulances-trying-help-victims

Police do not spontaneously block ambulances. I think maybe Common Dreams is being played.

Here's what the Russian Strategic Culture Foundation has to say about Turkey, Erdogan, and his revolt against Turkey's dominant Donmeh Jews (supposedly “apostates”):

The Donmeh: The Middle East’s Most Whispered Secret(Part I) (Modern Turkey: a secret Zionist state controlled by the Dönmeh):
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2011/10/25/the-doenmeh-the-middle-easts-most-whispered-secret-part-i.html

Evidently, there are some deep rabbit holes in the Middle East.

Posted by: blues | Oct 10, 2015 8:25:07 PM | 79

@72 ShadyLady & @77 ben

It is all about the money and those currently in control of it are the global plutocrats of the Western world of finance.

What is interesting is that to change the IMF formula takes Congressional action. What do you think the chances of that are any time soon? I think the the AIIB will be the alternative to the IMF and expect the transition to be bumpy.

Why is there never any public discussion of private finance over the centuries and its current relative merit, or lack thereof?

End the world of private finance and ongoing inheritance and you kill the centuries old human controlling/limiting class system....wouldn't that be nice!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Oct 10, 2015 8:42:12 PM | 80

The ongoing migration is the beginning of the end of the status quo for Europe...imo. Migration will do what bombs can't. Revolution will come from within. OR maybe the west can stop bombing ME into the stone age repeatedly and they will go back home.


Reaching the Limit: 'The Number of Immigrants Has To Fall'

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-cabinet-members-argue-against-unlimited-immigration-a-1057099.html#ref=rss

Merkel Under Fire: German Conservatives Deeply Split over Refugees

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/merkel-under-fire-from-political-allies-in-refugee-crisis-a-1057066.html#ref=rss

Posted by: shadylady | Oct 10, 2015 8:56:06 PM | 81

@Wayoutwest@73

The Russians are certainly good at self-promotion and propaganda bombing.

I don't think the takfiris you so much defend would have the same opinion. They are being blown to bits, and that according to your buddy-buddy at the Syrian "Observatory for Human Rights" (sic!).

Islamic State loses 132 members, 70 villages and farmlands in the northeast of Syria

Reading this detailed report you would think they face a conventional army in the Islamic State who sit in buildings waiting for orders while the bombs fall. The IS is a nonconventional force an Urban Guerilla force dispersed across the country in small groups and if there was a command center it was evacuated and empty when bombed just as the training facilities/ school yards were empty.

Wrong again. IS performs and behaves like a conventional army, with entire regions, cities and territory under their control, some of them for years now, with a functioning economy, bureaucracy, the entire infrastructure of a state. They are not a rag-tag guerrilla group, they have ties to the infrastructure they have stolen, gas and oil fields to defend, training grounds, C&C centers, etc. IS might use non-conventional, guerrilla tactics in their fighting, as many armies do, that doesn't turn them into a non-conventional force. A guerrilla moves to fight another day, does not engage in attrition tactics.

The IS fighters were running during this bombing spree but they were running to capture new territory from other rebel groups that the Russians softened up for them.

You pretend to be so well informed. How would you know those details? Your takfiri rats are running all over because their time for reckoning is up, now they have to pay for their crimes, and are being sent to hell in bits and pieces so their master can use them for fuel.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 10, 2015 11:21:16 PM | 82

@83 Lone Wolf

Good rebuttal. Wayoutwest is clearly grasping at straws here.

Posted by: MMARR | Oct 10, 2015 11:38:04 PM | 83

@83 "They are not a rag-tag guerrilla group,"

Well, if their membership is made up of a significant (predominant?) number of foreign fighters (Libya, Turkey, Chechnya, etc.) then they are going to find it very, very difficult to be an effective guerrilla group.

After all, that is a tactic that presupposes an ability to melt into the civil popln, and that's hard to do if you aren't a "local".

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Oct 10, 2015 11:38:08 PM | 84

excellent article up at zerohedge...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-10/carpe-chaos-isis-israel-iraq-syria-its-all-part-plan

comment section informative also

Posted by: crone | Oct 10, 2015 11:47:30 PM | 85

BOG / 54,

Maybe you're right about there being significance in the Roosevelt adhering to her repeatedly-announced schedule. I don't think "resupply" was the issue, but actually maintenance; they go into maintenance for months. I personally don't see anything in it except perhaps confirmation of Obama's statement that he has no plans to confront Russia over Syria. If somebody has a countervailing wild plan I guess they cd shift another of the flat-top to the Gulf. But you know I don't think ANYONE does. They'll be content w trying to resupply & continue salaries to their mercenaries, and trying to expand their numbers from Turkey's refugee camps. They'll have to up the salary, no? Also, somebody said they'd probably try to sneak in some mortars or rockets or whatever it takes to try to hit the Russian airbase from distance. I guess they cd do that w/o provoking WWIII.

As you know, CIA is not just eyes & ears, but action as well. I read recent criticism that they were increasingly doing their own version of special ops instead of the Pentagon doing it. I have always assumed that they were a direct resource of the international banking cabal. Perhaps this was partially confirmed when they were reputedly involved in all those 2 dozen or so bankers who were suicided.

You say the military wants its own intell. But surely among the 14 intell agencies, most must be military, no? I know there's naval intelligence. I speculate that the difficulty might be that they are tied together in some way & some might prefer they were more independent of one another-- but I don't know that.
Maybe someone knowledgeable about intell and its problems cd fill us in.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 10, 2015 11:48:56 PM | 86

@Yeah, Right@85

After all, that is a tactic that presupposes an ability to melt into the civil popln, and that's hard to do if you aren't a "local".

Bingo! They are not Syrian fish to swim between the Syrian masses, they are hired goons, human detritus, ready for the trash bin of history.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 10, 2015 11:56:24 PM | 87

LW@83

Your link is a report from January, not too relevant to todays action where the Russians and SAA forces have captured all of one village and are facing fierce fighting.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Oct 11, 2015 12:03:20 AM | 88

alaric @ 50,

"The US plan (export ISIS and Al Qaida to balkanize) is extremely defective because it also threatens the stability and even existence of traditional US stooges like Packistan, Jordan, Egypt, etc, and it also inflicts massive economic pain and an immigration crisis upon Europe."

"I doubt US allies will be able to endure this US push to implement Brzezinki's nefarious plot and Israel's similar plan for the ME. I expect some major defections from the US camp."

Actually, causing instability and weakness has been precisely the plan of the US: from the oligarchic banking families to the upper level military. The pseudo-philosophy is Straussian chaos and they have quite consciously striven for it. What many are calling "failures of the US military" are actually the desired result: If you're going to put a NWO in place, nothing like shredding the old one til it can't resist.

I think you're right in predicting the defections, and some fragments of the military & Obama are among them. The European people are probably ready to defect, but held in place by their corrupt govts-- like the rest of us.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 11, 2015 12:13:59 AM | 89

Gore Diva @ 46, That Jon Helmer link that says "informed London sources" say that Putin told Netanyahu that he's going to break Syria up into little statelets-- what a load of BS! But then the Israelis alway lie. Like the Russians whose entire image is adhering to international law are going to throw away their principles to give Israel what it wants! Pitiful. I guess I'll have to be more cautious in believing what Jon Helmer writes. He's sure blown his cover.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 11, 2015 12:14:48 AM | 90

@Wayoutwest@9

Your link is a report from January, not too relevant to todays action where the Russians and SAA forces have captured all of one village and are facing fierce fighting.

Nope, it is from February 24, 2015,

132 members of Islamic State have been killed since February 21, until the moment of issuing this report[...]

my mistake, just that your buddy-buddy at the so-called SOHR has a messy site, and the date can be hardly seen. You can triple that amount of takfiri rats killed since the Russians were called to Syria, that might be about right.

Still, my mistake doesn't solve your ignorance in military matters, and does not diminish whatsoever what I stated in my post.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 11, 2015 12:17:27 AM | 91

wow is mostly a bullshite artist.. not worth folks time..

Posted by: james | Oct 11, 2015 12:27:04 AM | 92

@68 karlof1.. thanks. ditto.

@91 penelope.. here is a direct link to john helmers comments.. here is what he said within his article: "London sources familiar with Israeli politics add that Russian strategy has the tacit backing of Israel. “This is because [President Vladimir] Putin has told [Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu that Israel can count on a no-threat zone running from Damascus south and east to the Golan. No threat means no Syrian Army, no jihadists. Russia and Israel will now have what [Israeli Prime Minister David] Ben-Gurion once explained was Israel’s long-term objective – the breakup of the large, potentially powerful secular Arab states into small sectarian territories too weak to do anything but threaten each other.”

i don't know where you read what you state @91, but it isn't the same as what john helmer wrote as i have quoted above.. perhaps i missed something?

Posted by: james | Oct 11, 2015 12:38:09 AM | 93


http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940718001322 Syrian Armed Forces only 6 KM from Kuweires Airport, which is the other one that Russia wants to set up at while hitting ISIS in the eastern part of Syria. This is a great site for war news. Another story: Rus destroys 29 ISIS training camps in one day.

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 11, 2015 1:00:40 AM | 94

Its time the american people stood up the shanamgans of us foreign policy.how do we side with people responsible for9/11 in a proxy war with russia. Those americans who perished must be turning in their graves

Posted by: dingos | Oct 11, 2015 1:03:17 AM | 95

James @ 94,

Am I misunderstanding it?

" Russia and Israel will now have what [Israeli Prime Minister David] Ben-Gurion once explained was Israel’s long-term objective – the breakup of the large, potentially powerful secular Arab states into small sectarian territories too weak to do anything but threaten each other.”

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 11, 2015 1:04:22 AM | 96

penelope.. here is what you said @91..
"That Jon Helmer link that says "informed London sources" say that Putin told Netanyahu that he's going to break Syria up into little statelets-- what a load of BS!"

does it look the same as what was quoted in the helmer article to you?

Posted by: james | Oct 11, 2015 1:18:50 AM | 97

@ BOG | 31

yesterday China launched their CIPS as well.

Awesome news, about time SWIFT alternative was launched. Its has basic features for now, but soon should grow to full-fledged international transaction system. So if any country is cut off from SWIFT, like Iran was suffering for years, its no problem anymore.

https://goo.gl/ZfgtYY

Posted by: Harry | Oct 11, 2015 1:30:09 AM | 98

The Arc of Resistance recently lost Brigadier General Hossein Hamedani, former deputy commander of the Basij and a personal friend to Qassem Suleimani, Iran's master strategist, who sent him to Syria to prop up Iran's support for the Assad regime. His killing, details about which we know nothing besides the location, the outskirts of Aleppo, could have been an opportunity coup, he was at the wrong place at the wrong time, or could have been a targeted killing, which requires SIGINT input to the takfiris while in combat. According to the IRGC commander, Major General Mohammad Ali Jafari, Hamedani "[...]played an outstanding role in preventing the fall of Damascus to the Takfiri terrorists."

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940718000604

Regardless of the circumstances in which he was killed, it is a sensible loss for Iran, and they have vowed to take revenge for his death by fighting the takfiris until their final defeat.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940718000505

Farsnews is also announcing the killing of a "Senior Hezbollah Commander, Hassan Hossein al-Haj, also known as Abu Mohammad al-Eqleem[...]" during heavy fighting in Idlib countryside. Strangely enough, I checked Al Manar TV after Farsnews, and there is nothing about this new loss.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940718001661

The killing of high ranking officers speak volumes about the fierce combats taking place all over Syria, and about the price in blood the Arc of Resistance will have to pay to get their countries back. May their sacrifice not be in vain, may their deaths be a contribution to the final defeat of the US empire designs for Syria, Iraq, and the ME.

Posted by: Lone Wolf | Oct 11, 2015 1:40:04 AM | 99

Crone @ 86. Thanks. Great article. I had no idea the Golan Heights was such great agrarian land. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-10/carpe-chaos-isis-israel-iraq-syria-its-all-part-plan

Posted by: Penelope | Oct 11, 2015 1:40:36 AM | 100

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