Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 07, 2015

Charlie Hebdo - The Chickens Come Home To Roost

Twelve people, including two police, were killed in France when unknown gunmen attacked the office of the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo today.

Some forty people were killed in Saana, Yemen, today in a bomb attack on people who were hoping to enlist with the police. These forty people and the many more wounded in the attack will get much less headlines than those killed in France.

Videos (1, 2) from the attack in Paris show the attackers in black clothing and behaving as if they had at least some military training. They were armed with automatic weapons and, according to the police, with a rocket launcher. At least two attackers are still on the run. We do not yet know the motive of the attackers, but I consider the following more likely than a false flag attack.

In 2011 the magazine Charlie Hebdo was one of those that printed the Mohammed caricatures, a crude and insulting attempt to smear the prophet and all Muslim as terrorists. In 2012 the magazine continued the campaign depicting the prophet Mohammed as naked, attention seeking gnome.

Unlike U.S. "liberals" most of the world does not consider free speech as an absolute right. Indeed like screaming "fire" in a filled theater, insulting the believe of other people is likely to get you hurt in most parts of the world. To claim such insults should not matter is itself an insult in that it declares one culture, that of absolute free speech rights, to be superior to other values. It is indecent.

That the Charlie Hebdo satire was indecent and insulting does not justify the murderous attack, but explains the probable motivation of the attackers. It is deeply wrong to kill people for their speech. But it is also wrong to insult others for no good reasons, be it profit or "free speech" worship.

The attackers in Paris are believed to be militants who pretend to be true Muslims fighting for their believes. The state of France under its presidents Sarkozy and Hollande has empowered and supported such pretenders in their attacks on the people and governments of Libya and Syria. In Syria Jihadi fighters of the Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra are using U.S. supplied anti-tank missiles. A German air defense regiment is defending their areas of retreat in Turkey against Syrian government attacks. While it supports Jihadis in Syria France is now deploying an air craft carrier to the Persian Gulf to attack the Islamic State in Iraq. The last  point could also be the actual motive of today's attack.

The fundamentalists were cheered on by "western" politicians when they attacked civilians in Tripoli and Aleppo. When they attack in countries which cater to "western interests" or within "western" countries these attacks are seen as hostile and used to justify another lurch to the extreme right, to war and towards more totalitarian states.

Unless they push for saner, less aggressive policies the average people in the middle, no matter their believes, are the ones losing in this war.

Posted by b on January 7, 2015 at 08:37 AM | Permalink

next page »

i see youve bloked me retweeting your tweets, B, why?

Posted by: brian | Jan 7, 2015 8:46:57 AM | 1

You could call the cartoons a massive success?

Posted by: Crest | Jan 7, 2015 8:54:21 AM | 2


Well those cartoonists (along with right wing extremists) that ridicule muslims, jews are the ones that gain by these attacks.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 9:02:37 AM | 3

@brian - I blocked you, I believe, on Twitter because you spammed me with various links that are of no interest to me.

Posted by: b | Jan 7, 2015 9:18:59 AM | 4

I put this comment at the bottom of another thread: Killer of cop on streets of Paris yells out Bullshit, or This is Bullshit. To my ears, it's an anglicized pronunciation. Why isn't he saying "merde" or something similar? The French are protective of their language. At 0:13 seconds.

It's the first video.

Posted by: MRW | Jan 7, 2015 9:31:09 AM | 5

wow, not even 48 hours ago the headlines splashed all over the msm were all Hollande calling for an end to sanctions against Russia!

Posted by: john | Jan 7, 2015 9:32:21 AM | 6

Respect for other cultures and religions is so old-fashioned. So old world. Corporate AmeriKa and Europoodle Inc. have profits to make. What better way than deliberately provoking Muslim Arabs relentlessly to get the reaction from them you want so you look like only half an asshole when you again start killing their wives and kids.

Members of the Sheenie Tribe of course are excited at this development. Would that the old-timey caricatures of them come back in full force, for sure after awhile I bet one of them goes berserk, especially if court challenges became routinely dismissed as "free speech".

Posted by: farflungstar | Jan 7, 2015 9:45:05 AM | 7

More support for the cause of Muslims out of Europe. The Right Wing groups will have a field day with this — they couldn't have asked for anything more. Jean-Marie Le Pen must be positively giddy.

Such a shame. I was thinking of relocating to a villa in Libya, but after this tragedy I'm thinking it won't be such a safe move afterall. This is really going to impact Western immigration to the Middle East. People in the West are clamoring to move to the Middle East to partake in the freedoms afforded by Sharia Law — especially the rapists.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 7, 2015 9:51:14 AM | 8

As many of you know, or maybe you don't, I'm fond of cartoons at my blog. They say a picture says a thousand words — personally I think the number of words varies according to the picture. The following cartoon is your post b, and many more like it, without the thousands or tens of thousands of words. The spirit of Charlie Hebdo still lives on — in me at least and John Cole.

Let Me Give You A Hand

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 7, 2015 10:11:30 AM | 9

Why are Americans so lacking in self-reflection that they can't see this is the consequence of the results of their actions? We killed 1.5 million and displaced over 2 million Iraqis on a lie, and we don't expect blowback? We go batshit when 3,000 are killed, cower in fear, tossed away our personal liberties like a bunch of woosies, and start two wars--over 3,000 dead people. And they're missing 3.5 million out of a population of 40 million and we don't expect retaliation? We taught the ISIS fighters after we dismantled thier army, destroyed their infrastructure, water, and electricity, then abandoned them.

We destroyed Libya and lives. We almost destroyed Syria. We're poking Russia now, and we've impoverished the Ukraine. And the only response here is to bitch, or joke, about living under Sharia law as if that's a threat? Meanwhile, the animosity towards us is growing so that we are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. And for what? The neocons' fascistic Israel?

Posted by: MRW | Jan 7, 2015 10:30:03 AM | 10

I agree that these people and the Danes were pigs and just asking for it ... although of course they do not 'deserve' to get this kind of treatment, no one does.

I'm sure it's not literally a false flag, but I can imagine the agents in the panopticon knowing that it was about to go down and keeping mum. It suits them. That was my original assessment of their extent of involvement in 9/11, although as time goes by and information is amassed I wonder know if they were not actively involved in the collapse of the towers ...

Another question occurs to me now ...

' While it supports Jihadis in Syria France is now deploying an air craft carrier to the Persian Gulf to attack the Islamic State in Iraq. '

... is that one of Russia's aircraft carriers?

Posted by: jfl | Jan 7, 2015 10:30:50 AM | 11

We killed 1.5 million and displaced over 2 million Iraqis on a lie, and we don't expect blowback?

Last time I looked, Vietnam is thriving under State Capitalism and Vietnamese aren't blowing up Western satirical news publications. No "blowback" from Vietnam. The fact you expect it from Arabs shows your bigotry and racism because we all know Arabs are only capable of revenge, right?

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 7, 2015 10:40:26 AM | 12

You are so wrong on this one b!!!!!
While muslims, or any religious group talks about people that don't follow their own religion, they give the right to reply.
Or does religion give you the right to gossip about everybody else?
The moment that muslims, or any other religion, stops getting into the business of the rest, calling them infidels or siners or saying where their souls will end, for example, i will respect them, otherwise i think i have the right to express my opinion about them.
I think this is pretty ethical.
Aupa Naparra ta lege zaharrak.

Posted by: Free Basque Country | Jan 7, 2015 10:49:09 AM | 13


"While it supports Jihadis in Syria France is now deploying an air craft carrier to the Persian Gulf to attack the Islamic State in Iraq."

ROTFLMAO. The French Navy and Army probably haven't been on manoeuvres in decades. Did they bother to look at a map? There's just a little tip they can use to walk into Iraq, unless they plan on taking on Kuwait and Iran. Then these Frenchmen are going to trudge across the sands of Iraq, past Baghdad, to NW IRAQ and eastern Syria where ISIS is? Or are they going to fill up their aircraft carrier with planes and fly into the area, after they get permission to violate Iraq's airspace, where ISIS has a huge supply of ground-to-missile launchers waiting for them?

Posted by: MRW | Jan 7, 2015 10:50:18 AM | 14


Typical ignorant comment, what does this have to do with religion at all? In fact you argue like an ISIS member with that bs, b is indeed right on this one.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 10:55:40 AM | 15


There was blowback for the Vietnamese. Pol Pot next door in Cambodia killing millions, and the North Vietnamese slaughtered the South Vietnamese for another year after we left. The whole area was aflame for at least 15 years before Vietnam made inroads to stability.

Posted by: MRW | Jan 7, 2015 11:06:03 AM | 16


So many Arab Muslims who didn't do anything to deserve being bombed and killed because some Saudi Muslims flew some planes into buildings. Killing them isn't enough, so we have to insult and abuse and make fun of them on top of it - must have learned that from the Israeli cuntz. The Arabs got some balls to get some payback anyway they can.
You don't respect shit near and dear to people, they all can react differently. Maybe they should just laugh it off, but they didn't. Oh well. They probably won't laugh it off in the future, either. Will the "enlightened" ones in the West do it again? Sure, if they need the attention.

Posted by: farflungstar | Jan 7, 2015 11:07:49 AM | 17

"Unlike U.S. "liberals" most of the world does not consider free speech as an absolute right. Indeed like screaming "fire" in a filled theater, insulting the believe of other people is likely to get you hurt in most parts of the world. To claim such insults should not matter is itself an insult in that it declares one culture, that of absolute free speech rights, to be superior to other values. It is indecent."

Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke and fuck you if you cannot take free speech. Don't like what they said? You are free to express your outrage IN WORDS and even in actions, but not in violence against people or destruction of property. What the fuck is so hard to understand about that?

Posted by: ralphieboy | Jan 7, 2015 11:09:43 AM | 18


Yeah and those jews that were killed during World War 2, cant they just take a joke? Hitler was only joking with those slurs against them in the paper.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 11:22:30 AM | 19

@15. Definitibly, i wasn't talking about religion, but about free speech and freedom in general. Whoever that talks about my soul is insulting mi. Don't i have the right to answer them?
My soul or lack of it is my own business, if i want to be a slave or a pleb is my own business. People that tell others what to think or how to live their lives or the ups and downs of other people souls or pretend that others should be as smart as themselves is the people that form isis.
Live your live and let the rest commit their mistakes us you commit yours. That was mi point.
Aupa Naparra ta lege zaharrak

Posted by: Naparra | Jan 7, 2015 11:29:52 AM | 20

I always consider false flag as a possibility. Anybody can shout "Allahu Akbar." From MCClatchy:

Other evidence suggests they may be linked to a top French al Qaida operative, David Drugeon, who has been the target at least twice of U.S. airstrikes in Syria over the last four months.

Witnesses inside the magazine’s offices told the French newspaper Humanité that both attackers spoke perfect French and claimed to be members of al Qaida.

Drugeon, who many experts believe was initially a French intelligence asset before defecting to al Qaida, previously masterminded a 2012 “lone wolf” attack on French soldiers and Jewish targets in the southern French city of Toulouse. That attack killed seven people before the perpetrator, a French citizen named Mohammed Merah who French intelligence believes had been trained by Drugeon, was killed by a police sniper after a long a violent standoff with security force

Hat Tip to Xymphora

Posted by: Lysander | Jan 7, 2015 11:59:50 AM | 21

If it looks like a False Flag & quacks like a False Flag...

Either it was developed by the PTB and/or they knew about it and let it happen.

The French satirists don't deserve to have this happen to them, but I consider it, at the very very least, to be extremely poor taste to mis-characterize a religion like that. Disgusting, in fact, and quite unnecessary. Ergo, live by the sword & die by the sword, and stop whining about it later. If you play with fire, you have to be prepared to be burned. If that's too real for you, then don't do it. Tired of "freedumb of speech" crap in this regard.

Duly noted also that almost immediately there is "nooz" about Hollande calling for ending sanctions on Russia. Coincidence?????? Pull my other leg, please.

Posted by: RUKidding | Jan 7, 2015 12:11:01 PM | 22

I find the excuses on here for the actions of these religious nuts unreal. No one is playing with fire, or had it coming. Fuck your God. Fuck your beliefs. I am sick of idiots on the left getting upset over having their beliefs challenged. Marx and Lenin must be rolling over in their Graves. Get a grip. And again, fuck Jesus, fuck Allah.

Posted by: Fuck God | Jan 7, 2015 12:17:10 PM | 23

Fuck God

Could it be unreal because you live in your own world. You like ISIS have no tolerance for other views and obviously no religions (at all) and get upset when encounter different perspectives.

Its always the same thing, the eager to insult other people. Check yourself man.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 12:23:58 PM | 24

Killing people over a belief is inexcusable and not tolerable. Equating one with IS for stating this is folly.

Posted by: Fuck God | Jan 7, 2015 12:28:06 PM | 25

I also thought it was a False flag. France wanted to get back into the game of getting its colonies like libya back and this is a great reason.

I am sure they will blame it on libya and France is back in the Game. I wonder when UK will get its false flag !

Posted by: Nini | Jan 7, 2015 12:29:57 PM | 26

Fuck God

No one has supported the killings, are you blind? People have said it wasnt suprising, or do you think its surprising?
OF course you dont want to be connected to ISIS, how surprising.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 12:34:12 PM | 27

Fuck God,

You forgot the Jews.

Posted by: MRW | Jan 7, 2015 12:36:02 PM | 28

Oh yeah. Fuck their God too.

Posted by: Fuck God | Jan 7, 2015 12:38:20 PM | 29

I've seen posts on other blogs where commenters point out that, while they in no way condone the murder of the satirists, one has to consider that if you play with fire, you might get burned. No one is *agreeing* with, supporting or condoning the murder. Yet, one might also point out the factual reality that France, like the USA, has participated (to a lesser extent than the USA) in killing many thousands of people various parts of MENA. No: two wrongs don't make a right, but people do sometimes retaliate. Again: pointing factual reality; not condoning murder.

Yet on various blogs suddenly the trolls appear and conveniently start accusing "lefties" of condoning or agreeing with this murder... mostly based on how "lefties" agree with the purported Muslims (are they really muslims? are they ISIS? I don't know. Do you?) in killing the satirists.

Then all sorts of condescending/dissing lectures start.

Gee I'm sure all these same talking points are entirely coincidental, especially the dissing of so-called "lefties."

Just saying...

Posted by: RUKidding | Jan 7, 2015 12:56:51 PM | 30

In 2012, WH Criticized the Prophet's Caricatures

Obama on Paris shooting: "It's a terrorist attack."

In 2012, the White House criticized Charlie Hebdo's publication of the caricatures as "deeply offensive to many." During the September 19, 2012, press briefing, then-spokesman Jay Carney questioned "the judgment of publishing something like this."

"We know that these images will be deeply offensive to many and have the potential to be inflammatory," he added a week after the Benghazi consulate raid.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 7, 2015 12:57:53 PM | 31

Posted this on the open tread a few minutes ago.

Almost certainly a false flag. Meaning: that KSA has been funding, arming jihadists all over the globe, and KSA security services all run by the CIA. Automatic weapons in France? How? Provided by SOMEONE. Who? The video showed to me what looked like a well trained profession hit team.


wow, not even 48 hours ago the headlines splashed all over the msm were all Hollande calling for an end to sanctions against Russia!

The Israeli-Saudi nexus must be considered in this incident - Israel to supply the weapons and the Saudis(CIA) the training and money.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jan 7, 2015 1:08:10 PM | 32

I think I first heard "Sky god cult" from Gore Vidal. I've expanded that to: Abrahamic sky god cults - for which I have no use for, all three of them.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jan 7, 2015 1:13:24 PM | 33

okie farmer

What does religions have to do with this? Most muslims reject these kind of people. I thought that was obvious for westerners.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 1:18:36 PM | 34

There was blowback for the Vietnamese. Pol Pot next door in Cambodia killing millions, and the North Vietnamese slaughtered the South Vietnamese for another year after we left. The whole area was aflame for at least 15 years before Vietnam made inroads to stability.

That's not blowback. Blowback is suicide bombers and gunmen sowing chaos on Western streets and boulevards. It's maniacal, vengeful zealots with box cutters and pilot's licenses hijacking Western jets and flying them into Disney World and Disney Land as the owners of those establishments hit the insurance payday lottery. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't recollect the Vietnamese ever doing any of that. The worst thing they ever did was torture John McCain (some consider this a good thing) to get him to talk and force Robert De Niro and Christopher Walken to play Russian Roulette.

God Bless America

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 7, 2015 1:26:00 PM | 35

Religion has everything to do with it. The sky god cults have been making war for at least 7 centuries, longer if you consider Islam wasn't established until the 8th Century. Religious wars have killed more people over the last 3,000 years than strictly geopolitical wars.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jan 7, 2015 1:35:38 PM | 36

okie farmer 32

the FF flag angle makes sense - how these people get an RPG and automatic weapons? Can you just buy those in a French gun shop? Especially with Ayrab Mooslims probably being watched and profiled?
Gotta be careful when you got so many different brands of spooks and creeps and maybe ppl on the inside looking the other way with an agenda crawling all over you - they don't give a crap who they murder, who they frame and who takes the fall - as long as it isn't them.
If and when they catch the perps, will they be tortured until confessing or will they freely brag or lie about their origins and paymasters?
Lunatics who do these things on their own seem to get caught or blow themselves away - the professionals know how to leave the scene and not blow their fingers off either.

Posted by: farflungstar | Jan 7, 2015 1:35:44 PM | 37


So the war comes home. We go there, kill their innocents, they come here, kill our innocents. Bad shit happens all around. The problem is our leaders, knowing this was a possibility in advance, didn't and don't give a shit, except they can use it as an excuse to increase surveillance, curtail civil liberties, up-armor the cops, etc.

Why you compare different people, in different times and places, and under different circumstances, to make your point, is a mystery. Vietnamese killed and wounded plenty of invading soldiers on their own turf - they had the means and the motive to kick the assholes out, so why follow them home?

Posted by: farflungstar | Jan 7, 2015 1:41:40 PM | 38

They won't catch them

the professionals know how to leave the scene

If indeed it's a false flag, the perpetrators will have escape already prepared - by their outside collaborators I would add.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jan 7, 2015 1:44:31 PM | 39

If Kenny Lay came into the WSJ with an AK and killed 12 writers for their tear down of Enon, would you characterize their deaths as having been caused by "playing with fire"? This is ridiculous.

Posted by: Fuck God | Jan 7, 2015 1:46:08 PM | 40

- Did "Charlie Hebdo" also publish anti-russian cartoons ? If so, then I wouldn't rule out a False Flag operation by the Ukrainians. In order to smear Putin even more.
- There's talk about Kalashnikovs being used. That would point to groups who have received russian made weapons in the past. (think eastern Europe (Ukraine ????), Russia, groups in the Middle East). Although I don't see what Putin would gain from shooting people in Paris. It would antagonize the "West" even more. Putin is not that dumb.

The attackers seem to have known the first names of the victims. This attack was not done by some rag-tag group. This is a well planned & well executed attack. And that requires - IMO - the support of a government. But which government ?

Posted by: Willy2 | Jan 7, 2015 1:46:27 PM | 41

okie farmer

That is nonsense to be honest, again - majority of muslims reject people like those perpetrators in France today. Or do you belive an ISIS person to be considered a muslim? In fact only ISIS themselves make that argument.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 1:47:56 PM | 42

"Chickens coming home to roost" or "Blowback". Fully agree.

A "western (european ???) intelligence officer" told Mitchell Prothero (McClatchy Newspapers): "We are expecting blowback somewhere in the future". Well, that blowback seems to be here & now.

But where is this "blowback" coming from ? Ukraine, Iraq, ISIS, Libya (also a hotbed of muslim extremism), Turkey (the US & NATO poured billions into the Fetullah Gülen movement and with that money dozens of madrassas were founded in Central Asia), ............

Posted by: Willy2 | Jan 7, 2015 1:57:40 PM | 43


Trained? Did you watch the shoot out with the cop? They ran around like confused kids with guns.
Their training, if any, was probably from Syria or Libya.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 2:00:32 PM | 44

While it is perfectly true that religion is fair game in general (I am an atheist who thinks religion is a plague on humanity), this isn't a religious issue. Muslims are an oppressed class. They are oppressed by Westerners. Slaughtered even. There is nothing "left," therefore, in Westerners denigrating their culture or religious beliefs. If you must take on religion as a leftist Westerner, the proper focus of your attention is Western Christianity.

And nobody here--or not b at least--has justified the killings. One can recognize that two wrongs do not make a right. That seems to be just what b has said.

Posted by: ee | Jan 7, 2015 2:01:38 PM | 45

I watched the video and how these two guys check the situation and just finish off the cop looks indeed like it's part of their everday job. On the other hand, a libyan/syrian mercenary might be used to check out an area and just shoot everyone who still moves on the ground.
Just findt it strange how they can escape in a car through the center of a town like paris in bright daylight while half of the cities cops are after them and the video is already up on youtube :-/.
But I might as well buy that this is a genuine islamist attack of no specific political pragmatism, with the only purpose of "revenging" ones beliefs.
Anyway, it's a sad thing. Cartoonists, satirists and the like are, to me, these days some of the more "valuable" guys around and often among the last ones that haven't been bought completely. Don't know if that's true about the CH guys, but from what I read about them, they were actualy believers in the necessity to insult everyone, which i agree with 100%. In a way, if CH insulted someone the terrorists believed in, they in return killed someone or -thing I believed in.
If this was a genuine attack, I'd hope they catch these guys and have them face the families of those they have killed.

Posted by: radiator | Jan 7, 2015 2:16:05 PM | 46


It wasnt much to it. Aiming at a cop, shooting it off clumsy, then running towards him even more clumsy and shot him in the head, what does that have to do with training? These are just some lone wolf's.

Could you also explain how you value satirist like just these killed to be on the top of valuable persons?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 2:24:13 PM | 47

radiator, google recent Charlie Hebdo cartoons - 98% anti-Muslim, 2%Other. Buncha old racist farts in service to GWOT, the main dude actually said he'd rather die than quit doing these dumbass cartoons.

I'm loling at their wiki which spins them as brash leftist fun guys.

Posted by: L Bean | Jan 7, 2015 2:29:44 PM | 48

Cold Hole@35

There was no blowback from the Vietnamese because they won the war and drove the US and its allies out of their country. When the Islamic State wins and drives the US, its allies and minions out of their region there will be no reason for blowback. It is our continuing presence and interference that drives blowback such as what happened in France.

Posted by: Wayoutwest | Jan 7, 2015 2:33:29 PM | 49

And what's more, none of it really qualifies as 'satire'. Things like this aren't even close.

(Tignous cartoon showing dead bodies covered with shrouds and the caption "Iran: Veils For The Entire World")

Posted by: L Bean | Jan 7, 2015 2:35:38 PM | 50

let me tell you a story

In the 17th century there was a guy called Gallileo

He called BS on a bunch of primitive superstitious beliefs, including that the world was flat

He took a lot of heat and was threatened with death

now we know better

just saying

just saying

Posted by: maff | Jan 7, 2015 2:39:24 PM | 51

you're probably right, for a military person this might be just a standard procedure. I was just surprised at how routinely they went about it. being a fanatical person a revenge crusade, I'd expected some more emotional behaviour, but that's just irrational imagination i guess.
i think satire is quite important, in germany eg i often get the impression that the few and far between quality satirist mags are the last ones left that are not bought and part of the mainstream propaganda or for that matters anyone's propaganda

Posted by: radiator | Jan 7, 2015 2:40:44 PM | 52

"Unlike U.S. "liberals" most of the world does not consider free speech as an absolute right. Indeed like screaming "fire" in a filled theater, insulting the believe of other people is likely to get you hurt in most parts of the world. To claim such insults should not matter is itself an insult in that it declares one culture, that of absolute free speech rights, to be superior to other values. It is indecent."

Unlike the US, where we honor the place of religion in society without, yet, giving any particular one a special place alongside the government, France is very serious about keeping religion out of the public sphere. The French consider this to be an intrinsic part of republican virtue. Americans were shocked when the burka was banned in France, but it made good sense in a French context. As I recall, the ban provoked whining and protest from Muslims but very little from non-Muslims. If you want to live in France, it is legitimate to demand that French republicanism be respected. If you want some other culture to be valued above all others, go elsewhere.

If you have lived in a Gulf country, you will be aware that any religion but the Wahabbi brand of Islam is not only suppressed, it is insulted in public by public figures. Am I justified to go after Saudi or Qatari religious figures in their own country because of it? I don't think so. There are many gentler, more tolerant varieties of Islam, but they are not the ones murdering people around the world.

Posted by: DuBois | Jan 7, 2015 2:45:20 PM | 53

Hunt down the bastards and kill them.

Posted by: samo samo | Jan 7, 2015 2:45:46 PM | 54

"insulting the believe of other people is likely to get you hurt in most parts of the world... it declares one culture, that of absolute free speech rights, to be superior to other values."

It seems unnecessary, but I would argue that free speech is a step forward for society. b seems to make this point in his argument too. Purveyors of free speech are not superior to others, but free speech has marked advantages to getting shot for lampooning dubious forces. We relentlessly criticize our own governments and to this point it has not resulted in anyone kicking my door in and shooting me.

b does make the prevailing point though, in that the net aggression is asymmetrical yet the coverage would indicate westerners are being barbered in excess. I reckon that one more attack on our deployed troops garners little attention, while something like this shakes the world's nervous system. It's all sad. Lost lives that will all but guarantee an overreaction that will cost additional civil liberties and even more lives.

Posted by: IhaveLittleToAdd | Jan 7, 2015 2:59:41 PM | 55


In 2010, Brian Michael Jenkins, the acknowledged top security expert in the country then (for 40 years), appeared before the Senate. I don't have a link right now but you can look him up. He worked for the RAND Corporation then. On the penultimate page, he made the cogent argument that the 1970s in the US was *far* more dangerous from a security point of view than the 00s. He said we had more plane hijackings--and it was true--and terrorist groups (I remember some group from Germany with Baden in the name, then there all the Latin Americans), and that generally.the country was far more unsafe than now.

Of course, wer weren't scaredy-cats then, cowering with our fingers in our mouths. We weren't exactly the Brits 'Carrying On' the way they did during the Blitz, but we sure as hell didn't have hard-ons for amygdala-fueled fear and drama the way we're addicted to it now.

Posted by: MRW | Jan 7, 2015 3:12:59 PM | 56

On the day that murderous dogmatic knuckleheads ply their craft, all that b has to offer is neo-Berufsverbot. Go get 'em, Tiger.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 7, 2015 3:17:30 PM | 57

There was no blowback from the Vietnamese because they won the war and drove the US and its allies out of their country.

The same can pretty much be said about Iraq. My point still holds. If this was perpetrated by Islamists, it wasn't about blowback. It was about intolerance. It was cowardly and regressive. Frankly, it doesn't fit the Islamist MO, imo despite the Allahu Akbar or precisely because of it. Something's very fishy. Charlie Hebdo was an equal opportunity satirist meaning anyone or anything was fair game, and as such it pissed off a lot of people in high places. If it was a false flag, it would be a perfect Mossad operation since Charlie Hebdo took more than its fair share of shots at Israel and The Jews.

How far Wayoutwest are you, Wayoutwest? As far as San Francisco? If so, tell Annie I said hello and I'm glad to see she has a home for her obsession at Mondoweiss.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 7, 2015 3:17:31 PM | 58

My question is, not just WHO filmed this? But who broadcast it, when did it "go live". It looks to be a professional. So how did they know to be at the right place on the roof, at the right time? And to film an out right execution w/out any emotion expressed what so ever? Seems seriously suspect. I'd start there. If we had treated this, all these matters as police detective work in the first place, instead of paramilitary action 'lets' roll' bullshit, (When I say from the beginning, I mean from day one of the WTC collapse) then we let the evidence decide, not the media, the talking cunts, not the ideology. But tangible non subjective observation and artifacts.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 7, 2015 3:21:32 PM | 59

Saudi Arabia and Qatar are some of the most important commercial partner to France with billions of dollars invested in hotels, sports clubs etc..
Therefore France does not seriously cracks down on the myriad of Islamic cultural centers and Mosques funded by the GCC that promotes Jihad to a mass of underemployed and marginalized young North Africans. The governement do not want to displease their generous friends.
In addition France calling for the toppling of the syrian "regime" by all means has encouraged the sunnis worldwide to identify to the cause of the Syrian Sunnis supposedly oppressed by a "heretic" supported by a heretic country, Shia Iran.
So it is no surprise that such events occur in France and the UK.

Posted by: Virgile | Jan 7, 2015 3:21:46 PM | 60


There were gunshots in the streets, people put out their smartphones, not a big deal.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 3:24:54 PM | 61


The Wahhabis are like the Christian Fundies with a jolt of Dispensationalism and a little snake-waving thrown in. Their sect is 214 years old. Created in tents on the sand. For those who don't know, Islam does not have a priestcraft, or a hierarchy, unless a bunch of people get together and agree to it. The Imams and Ayatollas are scholars, not religious leaders, contrary to what we may think. There are no set of volumes called Sharia Law. Sharia exists the way the code of honor exists at West Point. In your head as a common understanding.

BTW, the McClatchy article that Lysander linked to above is good. McClatchy is the only good newspaper left in this country. They have the best reporters and editors. McClatchy was the ONLY US newspaper to get the lies about why we were going to war in Iraq right, and they did it with shoe leather. They only got the Pulitzer for it two or three years later when they were found to be correct. McClatchy names a former French Intelligence asset as the perp, some guy who says he subsequently joined Al Qaeda.

Posted by: MRW | Jan 7, 2015 3:30:12 PM | 62

Untill the culprits are found, don't take anthing off the table for investigators. Especially not a false flag operation!

The weapons used, the military planning and execution plus a clean get-away. A professional hit not performed by a religious zealot or a vengeful extremist. The gravity of the crime to execute 12 persons in cold blood goes way beyond an average bomb or suicide attack or the planning by a "loner," These weapons could have been smuggled throughout Europe, the crime mafia also possess these weapons and everything can be bought at the right price. From the Yugoslav and Bosnian wars there are many remnants. A diplomatic pouch is also a strong bet to smuggle these weapons. I won't call out names, but Paris always has been a playground for intelligence agents from all major powers, including Khomeiny's Islamists and the Mossad.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 7, 2015 3:38:59 PM | 63

Plenty of liquidations in the EU including the unsolved execution style murder of four in Cheveline in the Haut Savoy on Sept. 5, 2012.

Posted by: Oui | Jan 7, 2015 3:39:30 PM | 64


. "I won't call out names, but Paris always has been a playground for intelligence agents from all major powers, including Khomeiny's Islamists and the Mossad".

Lol Iran is behind this now? Even shiites? I expect high standards here at MoA to be frank.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 3:42:52 PM | 65

ZEROHEDGE: "Three Paris Terrorists Identified"

Posted by: Willy2 | Jan 7, 2015 3:53:12 PM | 66

Not every terrorist act is a false flag. This is blowback. Russia warned Western leaders about this. If you support terrorists in Syria, they will gain combat experience, and they may come to Europe to effectively perform terrorist acts there.

What this looks like to me is the Islamic State bringing the fight to Europe.

As for the free speech and satire angle, it is fairly obvious that Islam is a false religion, a heretical spin-off of Christianity. Therefore, attacking it with "satire" is completely unnecessary, and is also tasteless and rude, because even though Muslims worship an idol, they are still human beings, so their beliefs should be treated with respect.

Posted by: Demian | Jan 7, 2015 3:54:08 PM | 67

Charlie Hebdo, and le Canard Enchainé, used to be ‘satirical’ and mocking of the PTB, and way ‘left.’ No longer. They are since some years all paid up or stitched up by big Media, hyper atlanticists, therefore the superb fit, designated actors, for publishing the Mohamed cartoons.

Another faux opposition paper, MSM this one, is Libération. (The pits!) The new French media (like the Intercept or such) via the internet, and run by the ex director of Le Monde, Plenel, MediaPart (a paying site), the same story. They go after pols who don’t pay taxes in France (oh yeah, that is to twist the panties of right-thinking leftitst) and do do some internal Franco-French journalism ‘scoops’..and blast Putin for corruption, authoritarianism, invading Crimea, etc. (And they loove Obama or just stay quiet about torture and so on.)

Today Mediapart in common with Charlie Hebdo titles against hate, for liberty. (!!)

Elle, strictly light fashion, women’s mag, recently published a tribute to two girl freedom fighters, Ukrainians for liberty. Both women are to put it delicately, extreme right-wingers and Russophobes. One has an extreme neo-nazi blog (she is in the Aidar battalion.) No point in going on about this, I am going OT, here in French on one of them.

What I am getting to, is that in France, anyone with half a brain knows that Charlie Hebdo and the others are stooges for the PTB, the publication of the Mohamed cartoons is well in the past, and the idea that any ‘serious’ islamists would today attack it for that reason is….very odd to say the least.

But Idk anything about this story, just saw it 5 mins ago, back from vacation.

Posted by: Noirette | Jan 7, 2015 3:55:16 PM | 68

Connect the dots.
Hollande stops into Moscow 'unexpectedly' last month, and then says absolutely nothing upon return to France (just had to get those Mistrals off his mind).
This past weekend Hollande says sanctions on Russia must end (he had to wait a little while so that people forgot about his layover).
This week - BOOM! a major 'terrorist' attack in Paris! How's that for blowback Mr. Hollande?
Looks like someone wanted to remind Hollande who's the boss, any takers?

Posted by: spinworthy | Jan 7, 2015 3:57:54 PM | 69

"Russia warned…" Hilarious if so many people weren't slaughtered in defense of a fairytale.

You can search through the MoA archives to find b's fulsome denouncements of Putin's barbarous destruction of Chechnya and Dagestan. Good luck.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 7, 2015 4:04:01 PM | 70

Breaking News about who was responsible for shooting Charlie Hebdo.

Arm’s Length

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jan 7, 2015 4:05:38 PM | 71


Maybe because Chechnya is INSIDE Russia compared to Syria, Iraq that is NOT inside the US/NATO.

Just admit that Russia is right about blowbacks, what in it for you?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 4:08:10 PM | 72

@Noirette #68:

the publication of the Mohamed cartoons is well in the past, and the idea that any ‘serious’ islamists would today attack it for that reason is….very odd to say the least.
My take on this is that the Islamic State means business, and it doesn't like Western countries meddling in the Middle East and killing Muslims with wild abandon. This is retribution for that. The reason Charlie Hebdo was chosen as a target was to target Islamophobes, instead of killing random civilians.

False flags are an Anglosphere and Israeli specialty. I don't think French intelligence services are any more likely to pull them on French people than Russian intelligence services are to pull them on Russians. Please correct me if you think I'm wrong.

Posted by: Demian | Jan 7, 2015 4:09:33 PM | 73

in the jurisprudence of American speech law, none of these parodies of religion rise to the level of "incitement to imminent lawless action." In other words, these are just fucking cartoons.

We "respect" beliefs by making sure that all beliefs are open to occasional rhetorically hyperbolic ridicule. Clearly, some people don't have a sense of humor. And people who don't have a sense of humor are seldom good candidates for members of a liberal society.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 7, 2015 4:10:22 PM | 74

In the discussions of this attack I've seen online and amongst my peers, I've got a hypothesis that liberalism has supplanted Christianity as the real true faith of the West ( while of course while keeping its influences). The same way people in the West feel about free speech being attacked is similar to the way Muslims feel about depictions of Mohammad. The difference of course, like many have already stated, is that our beliefs are regarded as superior to theirs and more deserving of protection and quarter. Of course I have very little regard for Islam (or any Abrahamic faith), which seem to bring nothing but war and oppression in their wakes. Just my opinion.

Funny that b mentions the bombing in Sanaa. The men who died were there to sign up to defend their neighborhoods and protect the public. Who cares, though. They are just part of the faceless brown mass, the same one that shot up the newspaper in Paris, and thus are not worthy of being considered human or even thought of as individuals.

The PEGIDA types and other anti-Muslim forces just got a late Christmas gift. Expect mosques to be vandalized and other retaliatory violence.

Posted by: Almand | Jan 7, 2015 4:13:02 PM | 75

"false flags" – well, that didn't take long. b really should contact Lyndon LaRouche and move to the moon or someplace sufficiently outside the ambit of the influences of master conspiracies of EMPIRE.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 7, 2015 4:15:37 PM | 76


Yes because killing millions is just a joke, you whine when 11 is killed in your "neighborhood" but support western wars all over the world. Get a grip for crying out loud.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 7, 2015 4:17:02 PM | 77

@73 Probably no coincidence that Michel Houellebecq's new novel 'Submission' is featured on the cover....

Posted by: dh | Jan 7, 2015 4:20:43 PM | 78


I practice the fine art of condemning any orthodoxy of belief. Put another way, I'm a tolerant liberal and atheist.

b is just a hypocrite. He blames cartoonists for their own murders at the hands of nutzoid religious extremists, but gets all hot and juicy defending the interests of the dictator Assad to destroy an ever-broadening spectrum of nihilistic "salafis."

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 7, 2015 4:44:50 PM | 79

UNGA condemns paris massacre
UN General Assembly President and Security Council condemned Charlie Hebdo terrorist attack …

.....BUT did they also condemn the Odessa massacre?
'Russia still has not received an answer from the United Nations concerning the May tragedy in the Ukrainian city of Odessa, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Gennady Gatilov told RIA Novosti in an interview.'
but then:
'"Back in May, we have raised this issue before the UN Secretariat, we demanded an investigation into those incidents and expressed hope that the UN authorities would give an exacting evaluation of the events and condemn such action, which does not adhere with the UN practice," Gatilov said.

"The secretariat assured us back then that they were in contact with the Kiev authorities and would inform us of the results. To this day, we have not been informed about the results," he added.'

UN as silent now as NATO killings in Libya

Posted by: brian | Jan 7, 2015 4:52:42 PM | 80

I had a look at an anti-Islamophobia Web site I knew about,, and had a look at blogs it links to. So far, the only post I've seen about this attack was by Juan Cole. His take was that this was an attack by al-Quaeda to increase Islamophobia in Europe, in order to radicalize European Muslims.

I find that interpretation of this terrorist act strange. My impression is that al-Qaeda is pretty much a thing of the past (when it comes to the Middle East as opposed to north Africa) and that it has evolved into the Islamic State. The Islamic State aspires to become a caliphate, whereas al-Qaeda had no such aspirations. If one views this terrorist attack in the context of the emergence of IS/ISIS, then what this attack looks like is a message from Muslims that the days of the West subjugating the Muslim world are over. The Islamic State is capable of taking the war to the enemy's turf.

Posted by: Demian | Jan 7, 2015 4:53:14 PM | 81

Posted by: b | Jan 7, 2015 9:18:59 AM | 4

i dont engage in 'spamming'.But clearly we differ on whats useful info

Posted by: brian | Jan 7, 2015 4:56:22 PM | 82

I think one of the owners of the magazine said something along the lines of 'journalists are not a weapon of war' - was he correct? Remember the saying 'the pen is mightier than the sword.

Posted by: bridger | Jan 7, 2015 4:58:43 PM | 83

If indeed it's a false flag, the perpetrators will have escape already prepared - by their outside collaborators I would add.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jan 7, 2015 1:44:31 PM | 39

its strange this attack, already being linked to ISIS as if like the bali bombings for indonesia and australia its to be used by french regime to justify attacking syria

Posted by: brian | Jan 7, 2015 4:58:57 PM | 84

Two right wing extremist muslims kill twelve people at a right wing newspaper and someone shows up to declare they're "sick of lefties getting upset over having their beliefs challenged." Wtf.

Posted by: guest77 | Jan 7, 2015 5:04:26 PM | 85

Like b, I don't think this was a false-flag.

If one can characterise jihadi-type operations, which is probably not at all justified, it is that they are aimed at slaughtering a maximum of the civilians of the supposed enemy, e.g. bombs outside mosques. That is what happened here.

What we know about false-flags in the Middle East suggests that they are less interested in killing people, but rather in a maximum political effect, e.g. the bombing of the Golden Dome in Samarra, where no-one at all was killed.

By the way, the French police have a very poor reputation. They aI am not at all surprised that

Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 7, 2015 5:05:58 PM | 86

I am not at all surprised that they failed to pick up the killers.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 7, 2015 5:06:57 PM | 87

Posted by: Willy2 | Jan 7, 2015 1:46:27 PM | 41

doubt the ukrainians.,.but some tweeters are smearing russia

however the ISIS connnection is gaining media traction

RT ‏@RT_com ·24m24 minutes ago
Prophetic tweet? #CharlieHebdo posted image of #ISIS leader hour before attack

makes you wonder....

Posted by: brian | Jan 7, 2015 5:17:36 PM | 88

Conspiracy Jerkoffs. This place is a loony bin.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 7, 2015 5:18:09 PM | 89

Here is a quote from an op-ed at Al Jazeera America:

There is an old Parisian tradition of cheeky humor that respects nothing and no one. The French even have a word for it: “gouaille.” Think of obscene images of Marie-Antoinette and other royals, of priests in flagrante delicto with nuns, of devils farting in the pope's face and Daumier’s caricatures of King Louis-Philippe, whom he portrayed in the shape of a pear. It's an anarchic populist form of obscenity that aims to cut down anything that would erect itself as venerable, sacred or powerful.
Well, sorry to have to break the news to multiculturalists, but gouaille arose from a Christian culture. It is alien to Muslim culture. Thus, another aspect of this tragedy is that it illustrates the internal contradictions of the multiculturalism which the Empire has imposed upon Europe. According to multiculturalism, speech must be free, so satire attacking religions should be celebrated, but Islam should be treated as just as European as Christianity, even though according to Islam, speech defaming the Prophet is an attack on Islam, and so must be avenged.

Posted by: Demian | Jan 7, 2015 5:21:27 PM | 90

blaming russians/chechens for paris attack
#Ukraine trolls went full retard: 1-'Ukies sold as slaves to Russia' 2-'Paris shooting gunmen spoke Russian' #nojoke

Posted by: brian | Jan 7, 2015 5:27:39 PM | 91

even though according to Islam, speech defaming the Prophet is an attack on Islam, and so must be avenged.

Posted by: Demian | Jan 7, 2015 5:21:27 PM | 89

how does thissquare with Islam as a religion of peace?

also isnt this a version of Honour kiling?

Posted by: brian | Jan 7, 2015 5:29:07 PM | 92


Paris always has been a playground for intelligence agents from all major powers, including Khomeiny's Islamists and the Mossad.

Cui bono? On the day that Palestine's membership is accepted by the ICC, the MSM has wall to wall coverage of France's terrorist attack. If islamophobia increases in France and French Jews feel more inclined to immigrate to Israel, it's a bonus for Israel.

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Jan 7, 2015 5:41:13 PM | 93

They're talking about 2 Algerian brothers and a third person. This tends to confirm b's hypothesis of payback, and also the idea of lone-wolf.

I am not surprised. There are many quasi-alQa'ida groups in France. It is not surprising that someone might have have felt to have been driven over the edge.

One should recall the Algerian war at the end of the 1950s and the beginning of the 1960s, where there was open conflict on the streets of Paris, not that long ago. 17 Algerians were thrown in the Seine. Then again there was the Algerian bomb in the metro in 1995, which killed more than today. I'd be surprised if Parisians are overwhelmed by today.

Posted by: Laguerre | Jan 7, 2015 5:46:36 PM | 94

@brian #91:

how does thissquare with Islam as a religion of peace?
Whoever said that Islam is a religion of peace? That all three Abrahamic religions are religions of peace is postmodernist bullshit. Only Christianity is a religion of peace. Muhammad was a warrior and commanded an army, and the Old Testament glorifies genocide.

@Rusty Pipes #92:

If islamophobia increases in France
From what I know about the French, they will take this in stride and Islamophobia will not increase. Hopefully Noirette will keep us informed about this.

Posted by: Demian | Jan 7, 2015 5:56:19 PM | 95

'Whoever said that Islam is a religion of peace'

quite a few muslim authorities

Posted by: brian | Jan 7, 2015 6:06:03 PM | 96

the 2nd question: is this a form of honor killing? if so iuts attached itself to islam

another issue is whodonenit!

an apparently military trained squad attack a cartoon office? isnt that over the top? so what was the attack about?

Posted by: brian | Jan 7, 2015 6:08:55 PM | 97

On such an occasion France24 asks the views of Meyer Habib to explain today's act of terror in Paris …

The position of France in the UN Security Council is quite crucial … the three terror suspects "lost" their ID cards in the abandoned Citroen C3. Sure. Let's wait for real evidence. Sensing a false flag operation.

Israel to call in French envoy to protest vote in UN Security Council

WhoIs Meyer Habib?

Immediately following the vote, Meyer Habib, a center-right lawmaker and close friend of Netanyahu, said …

“France today chose the wrong partner and I fear repercussions in relations with Israel, the only democracy in the region…While radical jihad killed citizens of France and other parts of the free world, legitimization is given to the establishment of a state run by corrupt people and terrorists.”

Posted by: Oui | Jan 7, 2015 6:10:23 PM | 98

@Laguerre #93:

the idea of lone-wolf
From what I read, the attackers acted with military precision. This was a paramilitary operation, not a crude terrorist attack like a suicide bombing. And I would say that the attackers not getting caught was part of the message. The attackers had paramilitary training and/or combat experience, which by definition rules out their being lone wolves, IMO.

This is not to say that I am claiming that this attack was ordered and planned by the ISIS high command. But I do think that the attackers and ISIS are on the same wavelength. And I don't think "radical Muslim" is a useful category anymore. I read this act as an event in the process of the shift to a multipolar world. That involves not just Eurasia emerging as an opposite pole to the US, but also the Muslim world becoming free of its current subjugation by the West.

Posted by: Demian | Jan 7, 2015 6:13:05 PM | 100

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