Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 14, 2014

Ukraine: These Tanks ... And The State Department Lies Again

The Ukrainian coup government claims that Russian tanks crossed the border and are in use by federalists in east Ukraine. First claims talked about three Russian T-72 tanks but later claims changed the type of the tank to T-64s. The tanks can be seen driving here (vid) and here (vid).

The U.S. State Department is now endorsing that claim:

The State Department said Friday that Russia had sent tanks and other heavy weapons to separatists in Ukraine, supporting accusations Thursday by the Ukrainian government.

A convoy of three T-64 tanks, several BM-21 multiple rocket launchers and other military vehicles crossed the border near the Ukrainian town of Snizhne, State Department officials said. The Ukrainian Army reported Friday that it had destroyed two of the tanks and several other vehicles in the convoy.

“This is unacceptable,” said Marie Harf, the deputy State Department spokeswoman. “A failure by Russia to de-escalate this situation will lead to additional costs.”
...
The T-64 is an obsolescent tank no longer in active use by Russian forces, but still stored in southwest Russia.

“Russia will claim these tanks were taken from Ukrainian forces, but no Ukrainian tank units have been operating in that area,” the State Department said Friday. “We are confident that these tanks came from Russia.”

There are several lies in this State Department claims. Ukrainian tank units are operating in the area against federalists. Here are several photos (scroll down) from Associated Press showing them - also pic 7 here. The tanks re T-64 BV, the upgraded subtype used in the Ukrainian army.

T-64BV – Features "Kontakt-1" reactive armour and "Tucha" 81-mm smoke grenade launchers on the left of the turret.

All Soviet era T-64 tanks were exclusively build and later upgraded in Kharkov, Ukraine. The Ukrainian state dealer Ukrspecexport is still selling such upgraded tanks. Distinct features of the T-64 BV subtype are marked in picture 17 of this gallery at armyrecognition.com. Two smoke grenade launchers at the left side of the turret - none on the right -, the boxes at the rear of the turret and the infrared searchlight to the left of the gun are special T-64 BV features which can also be seen on page 4-14.1 of the OPFOR Worldwide Equipment Guide (pdf) of the U.S. TRADOC DCSINT Threat Support Directorate.

Russia once had some 4,000 T-64s. It did not upgrade them but scrapped those it had.

Wikipedia, giving as source Eugene Yanko "T-64 MBT; Russian Arms, Military Technology, Analysis of Russia's Military Forces", list Russia as a "former operator" of T-64s and remarks:

Approx. 4000 in 1995. By 2013 all have been scrapped.

Another source says:

Russia (not to be confused with Ukraine which still has about ~2200 T-64'ss) has been scrapping out their for years now and completed the process mid 2012. This is from 2013 IISS the Military Balance.

I do not have access to the expensive 2013 IISS "Military Balance" but someone with U.S. library access can surely look it up and confirm that.

To me, a former Bundeswehr tank officer, the three traveling tanks reportedly driven by federalists in the videos above are T-64 BVs like the Ukrainian army uses in east Ukraine. Also - as Russia no longer has any T-64s where else could the Ukrainian federalist have obtained those three T-64 tanks than by capturing them in Ukraine?

Indeed. On June 9 the Russian news site Politikus.ru noted: Ополченцы под Луганском захватили три танка Т-64 украинских ВС. Google translation:

Militias under Lugansk captured three of the T-64 Ukrainian Armed Forces

According to representatives of the so-called self-defense forces People's Republic of Lugansk, common in social networks, militias won another victory in the suburbs of Lugansk.

It is reported that the Ukrainian military in a serious clash with the militia not only had to retreat, but to leave some heavy equipment and weapons. It is known that in order SDF Lugansk were three T-64 tank.

Apparently three T-64 BVs from the Ukrainian army were captured by federalists some five days ago and are moving somewhere in east Ukraine. There is zero prove at all that these T-64 BVs, of which Russia has none left, came from Russia. The State Department is again lying.

Posted by b on June 14, 2014 at 07:24 AM | Permalink

Comments

"How terrible is the Truth, when there is no help in the Truth." Sophocles

Posted by: chip nikh | Jun 14, 2014 7:47:45 AM | 1

My summary with about the same information is here:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151847531964364&set=o.1452285018328179

Note, that the claim of Kyiv forces having destroyed two of the tanks is obviously false, as we saw a steady stream of almost real time YouTube uploads of the tanks progressing from Snizhne to Donetsk – all three of them.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 14, 2014 9:01:58 AM | 2

The US state department lying,no surely not, this from the WSJ last September [sorry Anonymous] Mr. Putin said that Al-Nusra, which he described as a branch of al Qaeda, was currently fighting in Syria.

“They [the U.S.] know this. It was very unpleasant and surprising for me. We talk to them and assume they are decent people. But he is lying and he knows he’s lying. It’s sad,” Mr. Putin said. http://stream.wsj.com/story/syria/SS-2-34182/SS-2-316431/

Posted by: harry law | Jun 14, 2014 9:10:51 AM | 3

Extra details on the provenance of the tanks are here (in French)
http://www.les-crises.fr/grotesque-russie-3-chars/

Posted by: Mina | Jun 14, 2014 9:16:44 AM | 4

Bankers want to escalate (to war) so bad, perhaps they'll try to "recover" Crimea. And Putin WILL HAVE TO react. As far as ISIS in Iraq, the US knew it all along (and possibly provoked it). No wonder it's doing close ti NIL to stop it. I guess they'll react if ISIS dare touch US interests.

Posted by: aktiv | Jun 14, 2014 10:15:31 AM | 5

Stephen Cohen talks good sense but knows no one is listening in official Washington. This indictment of a fear-based conformist American culture is well deserved:

“There is no debate of public opposition in this country about this, unlike the situation 20-25 years ago, when we had real debates and public fights,” he said. “I don’t know if they [the mainstream media – RT] know the truth and therefore are not telling the truth, or that they are just caught up in the myths that had been attached to Russia since the end of the Soviet Union.”

“An orthodoxy about Russia has formed in this country over 20 years,” he added. “And it’s not only wrong, it’s reckless. It led us to this crisis in Ukraine… The only way you can break orthodoxy is with heresy. Some of the things I say are regarded as heretical, treasonous, unpatriotic. But heresy is a good thing, when it’s needed.”

This situation is a sharp contrast to what happens in some other democracies, which don’t hush a public debate on foreign policy issues and don’t try to push opinions not liked by the political establishment into the ‘fringe press’.

“Germany, a relatively new democracy with a past as bad as Russia’s, could develop a democracy, where people can speak openly and feely without fear of failing to get a promotion or getting on an op-ed page. Two of three former German chancellors have blamed Europe for the crisis in Ukraine – not Russia.”

“Where are our former presidents? We know why President Clinton wouldn’t speak out, because he began that policy. But where is President Carter? Where are the former secretaries of state who pursued other policies? Why the silence? We’ve developed, I fear, a political culture within the establishment that is conformist.

It's not just the establishment, it's also all the establishment wannabes, and everyone else who fears the all-seeing state's Panopticon.

Posted by: fairleft | Jun 14, 2014 10:39:55 AM | 6

Now NATO claims with some old low resolution satellite pics that these tanks from Ukraine came from Russia

http://aco.nato.int/statement-on-russian-main-battle-tanks.aspx

A lot of bullshit about unrelated movements of different tanks in Russia and some nonsense of Ukraine tanks "markings" with a picture of a different tank type as "proof".

A whole bunch of nothing.

Posted by: b | Jun 14, 2014 10:44:44 AM | 7

RT report huge vandalism against Russian embassy in kiev today.
THis is of course western funded gangsters.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 14, 2014 11:34:14 AM | 8

a picture from the attack on the Russian embassy:
https://twitter.com/a_a_vasiljev/status/477832722409615360

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 14, 2014 11:40:49 AM | 9

Well, since Russia hasn't taken the bait they're obviously going to have to resort to more blatant lies and the inevitable false flag. We. Are. The. Worst.

Posted by: Colinjames | Jun 14, 2014 11:41:29 AM | 10

Some more photos of the racist ukrainaians attacking the embassy.
https://twitter.com/Kateryna_Kruk/status/477834182224531456

These are really stupid ppl, first they make the crime and then they post their faces online.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 14, 2014 11:47:41 AM | 11

The "movements" they refer to are the ones they should bow to - i.e. Russia withdrawing troops from its regular military compounds simply as an act of good will because they were close to Ukraine.

The "markings" they are concerned about is just the height of idiocy. I mean, they attempt to illustrate this by juxtaposing a T-64BM "Bulat" (a completely different model) to one of the regular T-64BV tanks that the rebels got hold of. If you look at the Associated Press photos that MoA provided in the initial post, it's clear that the version that Ukrainian forces have been operating since May were T-64BVs, the very same version as the ones the rebels got.

Furthermore, several of the T-64BVs that the Ukrainians are operating in the region visible in these AP photos sport the very same green/brown paintjob as the rebel tanks have. Even the distribution of these colors is identical. The only difference is that the rebel ones lack the white lettering and the white identification stripe to the rear. The reason for this is obvious - they don't want to be shot at by their own. Case in point: in Lugansk, where the rebels seized the tanks five days ago, they also destroyed one with a load of RPGs.


Posted by: Carl | Jun 14, 2014 12:00:31 PM | 12

@aktiv, that's what I'm thinking. In order to do business in their client states the oil/industrialist/bankers need to organize the gangsters who maintain security there into a cohesive bunch. It's more efficient that way. Similarly in Libya, didn't we see the US just ship in their asset from Virginia, some ex-Libyan general, forget the name, to impose a semblance of criminal order on the various gangs fighting over the spoils and causing interruptions in the flow of sweet crude? For when "soft" diplomacy is too slow or not viable. No doubt applys to Ukr too.

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 14, 2014 12:39:17 PM | 13

It's fairly obvious these tanks were absconded by Russian special forces in mid to late 2013 and hidden out of sight until the proxy invasion began.

Also, concerning the airstrikes several weeks ago. Why would Kiev deny it since they control the Western media message and can paint it in a positive light? I wouldn't rule out Russia's hand in it to hang Kiev in the court of public opinion — at least Eastern public opinion. This is the game Russia plays best. Look how well it faked its own collapse. And remember, Stalin was willing, ready and able to burn the village that was Russia in order to save it — and he almost succeeded in burning it entirely to the ground and everyone in it.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 14, 2014 1:03:39 PM | 14

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 14, 2014 12:39:17 PM | 13

Exactly as Putin's done in Crimea. He's installed his own personal fellow loyal gangster to oversee the gangsterism of Crimea. Crimea is a criminal state run by and for criminals. Everyone else are marks and eventually so much collateral damage.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 14, 2014 1:07:24 PM | 15

Kiev's bloody eastern Ukraine campaign LIVE UPDATES

"Saturday, June 14
15:27 GMT:

Following the downing of an Il-76 Ukrainian army transport plane some 12 miles southeast of Lugansk, killing all 49 people on board, political analyst Aleksandar Pavich, told RT Kiev’s foreign backers would “blame Russia.”

“This is supposed to be an escalation on the part of Russia; how did these people manage to down a plane – the equipment must come from Russia. Of course, Ukraine has its own military industry, but they’re going to pin the blame on Russia because the real target is Russia, it’s not even the southeast or the east of Ukraine. So I expect escalation, verbally and otherwise from NATO, Washington, London, Brussels, and Berlin, unfortunately.”

09:48 GMT:

Self-defense forces in eastern Ukraine have allegedly downed another plane - a SU24. The pilot is alive and currently being taken for questioning, RIA Novosti reports. There were a total of two SUs that took part in the overnight bombarding of a local police station.

The news follows reports of the two planes performing an attack around 4:30AM local time, which resulted in losses among the self-defense forces ranks, as well as civilians. Two have been killed and seven injured.

The Ukrainian militia offered no comment."

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 14, 2014 1:10:29 PM | 16

Bankers want to escalate (to war) so bad, perhaps they'll try to "recover" Crimea.

If this is the case, I know a quicker way. Why not shoot down the Russian bombers that are continually taunting the U.S. Air Force by running missions off the Alaskan and California coasts. I think that would escalate something real quick. Let's thank our lucky stars the U.S. Air Force has the patience to withstand these childish taunts from Russia who clearly wants to escalate a conflict. American critics keep saying "don't poke the Russian Bear." You have it backwards — don't poke Uncle Sam, because if you do one too many times, you're toast. Russia has about one or two pokes left, by my estimation — then Putin's Russia is no more. Do you hear that, Vlad? Your rope is very short — use it wisely or suffer your suffocating fate.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 14, 2014 1:15:34 PM | 17

"Crimea is a criminal state run by and for criminals." Evidence or begone, Troll Hole.

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 14, 2014 1:32:06 PM | 18

"To misplace one tank is a misfortune; to misplace three looks like carelessness." (Vladimir Wilde)

Posted by: The Creator | Jun 14, 2014 1:35:53 PM | 19

the usa is more focused on spreading lies then it is with the fact the kiev gang are into destroying eastern ukraine by the use of military force on it's own citizens. that ought to tell anyone of where the usa's priorities lie. instead of telling their puppets in kiev to stop with military solution towards eastern ukraine - they are endorsing it! they are also trying to lie as they did in all the recent wars on other countries beginning with 'weapons of mass destruction' iraq bullshit.. how long before this 24-7 war country- usa completely destroy themselves before destroying the rest of the planet? what a disturbing war mongering nation the usa is!

Posted by: james | Jun 14, 2014 1:51:18 PM | 20

uncle scam has it's ass in too many places as it is.. accusing others of poking their ass in uncle scams affairs is about as far from the truth as you can get.. keep it up.. their is a job for you as spokes-idiot for the admin..

Posted by: james | Jun 14, 2014 1:54:00 PM | 21

@Cole N Horseshit
If there's any kind of "quality control" at the paid trolls department you're going to see a sharp drop in income.
Your prose is SO STUPID that even a bureaucrat can figure it out, beware...

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 14, 2014 2:02:57 PM | 22

Two live streams from the Russian embassy in Kiev. It seems like the Right Sektor plans to attack it tonight. No police visible anywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AwmGsYWBUWc
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/vichekyiv#

Posted by: b | Jun 14, 2014 2:15:09 PM | 23

@18

1. Dont feed him

2. Hes been here for years. Why is he not banned?

Posted by: Massinissa | Jun 14, 2014 2:19:15 PM | 24

Russian Embassy in Kiev under attack - possible chemical attack in the East tonight - situation in Iraq

"Juan just emailed me to let me know that the Russian Embassy in Kiev is under attack by neo-Nazi rioters.

Also, there is a 90% probability the gaz attack in Novorossiya will be tonight during the seizing and burning of the Russian Embassy in Kiev as "The World's" attention is focused on Kiev."

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 14, 2014 2:23:02 PM | 25

By now anything that enters Ukraine, having vague Russian connotations or smell (or can be claimed to have such) as seen from Kiev, is stigmatized to hell. Even it it was there before or bought and paid for. 3 tanks... whoo...!!

It might be baby-food reputed poisonous, tires that explode, or what not. (Of minor importance sure.)

The aim of course it to obtain war-support from the US/EU/West. The W media take up the theme of an invasion by the Russian bear.

Ukraine has been maintained in a large part under the Russian wing, by Russia and Ukr. oligarchs / power brokers themselves, cosy-like. No denying that.

All of Ukr. politics since 1990 is a compromise between independence, so-called, and dependence on Russia. Which finally broke down now...after strife that was nevertheless contained even after for ex. the Orange Revolution (failed) and other events. But now Russo-hate has the upper hand with external support.

Ukraine became independent (1991) after *! massive !* demos and a referendum (90% for independence, even 56% in Crimea, from wiki) - the beginning of a tradition!

The first Prez. of Ukraine, Kravchuk, was the previous Chairman of the Soviet Supreme, Ukr. branch, and became Pres. of Ukraine, first by default (he himself declared the independence), and then as elected by the people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_1991

Posted by: Noirette | Jun 14, 2014 2:41:36 PM | 26

The attack on embassy is of course supported, planned by poroshenko, west.
http://rt.com/on-air/protest-kiev-russia-embassy/
Seems like the psychos have enetered the embassy now!

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 14, 2014 2:52:45 PM | 27

b / 23

The more we see from the regime in kiev and its supporters is that they are a bunch of white-trash thugs. God what a pathetic group of people.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 14, 2014 2:55:32 PM | 28

@24, not feeding it, but it addressed me personally. This will not stand!

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 14, 2014 3:01:51 PM | 29

@23, don't have the bandwidth for ustream. Anybody willing to give a written précis?

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 14, 2014 3:07:30 PM | 30

Score a point for the rebels: (Ukraine's) Armed forces suffer heaviest loss since rebellion began when Ilyushin-76 transport plane is destroyed near the eastern city of Luhansk. 49 dead.

Posted by: Maracatu | Jun 14, 2014 3:17:00 PM | 31

Moscow is indigant at provocations of "fascist youth" against Russian Embassy

"With the irresponsible connivance of Ukrainian authorities attack on the building of the Russian diplomatic mission and desecration of the flag of the Russian Federation were implemented ," cites RIA Novosti the Foreign Ministry."

This has western nazi fingerprints all over it, as in being orchestrated by Washington or Tel Aviv, rather than originating from the junta nazis, who have about as much say in their world as Hitler Youth did.

Lugansk: local self-defense forces launch counteroffensive

Local defenders in the self-proclaimed Lugansk People's Republic launched a counteroffensive to free the town of Schastye earlier seized by Ukrainian forces, press service of the republic said on Saturday. According to earlier reports, a column of armored vehicles of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was moving toward Lugansk from Schastye. "Preparations are underway to defend the city," one of the republic's leaders said. There was no information about the strength of the Ukrainian force that was on the way to Lugansk.

A militia source said that defenders had to retreat to Lugansk during the assault against Schastye, when Kiev's forces used combat helicopters. The defenders regrouped. Militia sources also said Ukrainian troops lost eight people in fighting near Schastye.

One of militiamen also said that when they retreated under the assault of Ukrainian armored vehicles, members of the Ukrainian National Guards shot dead six-seven wounded militiamen.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 14, 2014 3:19:52 PM | 32

People coming to the embassy with brand-bombs according to pics on twitter.
This might end as odessa.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 14, 2014 3:20:26 PM | 33

This is the first time I hear Psaki say something sensible:

“The US condemns the attack on the embassy of the Russian Federation in Kiev and calls on the Ukrainian government to fulfill its obligations under the Vienna convention to ensure the necessary security measures,” US State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said, as quoted by RIA Novosti.

This doesn't make the "democrats" in Kiev look very good, does it? It kind of reminds Americans of Tehran.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 14, 2014 3:40:50 PM | 34

Reconstruction of a possible plan junta

"My reconstruction of a possible plan junta, which began to operate and will become obvious about 16, 17, 18 June.

The gas negotiations were too long, because concessions to Gazprom, the military actions were also delayed. So the secret of the international headquarters for the Ukrainian crisis decided to speed things up. They believe that polurethane Poroshenko to visit /Putin in Normandy indicate that Moscow would not dare to active support of insurgent the Donbass that Moscow surrenders, if you click on it.

Therefore:

1. Was organized leakage of conversation Yatseniuk, where he abusive speaks against Miller, say, that all endure. Offended Miller dramatically tightened negotiations, gave a hard limit up to 16 June.

2. Now it's a time of crisis.

3. For the first time BTR Ukrainian army went on Russian territory, above it began to unfold Ukrainian aircraft was organized aggressive demonstration outside the Russian Embassy.

4. Will be as a pretext for strengthening of war used lined Il 76.

5. At the same time will meet the gas crisis and the beginning of the large-scale use of weapons of mass destruction in the Donbass.

6. It would be stated that the war between Russia and Ukraine has become a full-scale due to the Russian aggression.

7. Will ensure that Moscow was frightened and made a promise to take the Donbass."

Obviously, the plan was formulated by the western nazis, not by their flunkies running the junta regime. This is the "something huge" that's been rumored to be about to happen over the last few days. The western nazis need something to turn around their fascist terror campaign against Novorossiya because the tide there has turned against them. Soon it will be clear Novorossiya doesn't need Russian intervention to crush the junta nazi assault and can do it on their own. That will mean there is no longer a chance for the western nazis to lure Russia into the Ukraine. So right now, the western nazis are going all out to provoke Russia into the Ukraine before the intervention window closes permanently, and their nazi quislings begin seeing themselves routed back to Lvov.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 14, 2014 3:51:20 PM | 35

fairlef(6) linked to Mr.Cohen's piece where the latter states:
"Germany, a relatively new democracy with a past as bad as Russia’s, could develop a democracy, where people can speak openly and feely without fear of failing to get a promotion or getting on an op-ed page."


I think it was Mr.Pragma, who oftentimes mentioned how 'democracies' were a bit of a sham.
Germany is NO democracy. Its a vassal state where people can do much worse than fearing to fail to get promotions for speaking out about certain taboo subjects. The holohoax taboo, the most sacred cow in vassal germany(and the West), if aproached the 'wrong' way, will get u in a jail cell in no time. Many have been imprisoned in Germany - and in other european 'democracies' - for writing books and reports which conflict with the official wisdom, i.e, holo propaganda.

In fact, methinks Ahmadinejad of Iran wanted to point out western hipocrisy and double standarts re free speech. Freedom of speech only truly exists if one is safe to publicly hold unpopular opinions.
ZUSA, on the other hand, may not yet have 'hate speech' laws, common in european 'democracies', but just try to talk about any of the many taboo subjets and you'll see how fast you'll be out of work and your good name smeared. Which taboos, one might ask? Pick one; the existence of race, possible racial(and even ethnic) differences, mass imigration, the absurd of multiculturalism, Israel and zionism, Jewish power or anything having to do with jews if it's negative, the holocau$t industry, anything deviating from official holo 'history', etc. Even re economic matters, the few who dare to speak out and cross the line established by the powerful have no chance. Just ask Dr.P.C.Roberts.

In most 'democracies' we have some variation of zamerican democracy. It goes like this; every few years we are to pick one of the few candidates who in fact represent SPECIAL interests and are funded by them... to supposedly represent us... Buhuhu

Unfortunately, too many useful idiots in the West still believe they live in truly democratic societies.

Posted by: Luca K | Jun 14, 2014 3:55:18 PM | 36

Posted by: Demian | Jun 14, 2014 3:40:50 PM | 34

"This is the first time I hear Psaki say something sensible"

They are giving themselves an alibi. The whole thing has the stink of neocon mentality behind it.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 14, 2014 3:55:34 PM | 37

@34 Strong stuff. Muted condemnation is one step up from deep concern.

Posted by: dh | Jun 14, 2014 4:29:48 PM | 38

@6 fairleft | Jun 14, 2014 10:39:55 AM

Good comment.

Posted by: MRW | Jun 14, 2014 4:33:44 PM | 39

A second Uki plane was downed today (in Russian). Two Su-25 bombers, one attacking and the other acting as a decoy, bombed the interior affairs administration building in the city of Gorlovaka, which the resistance is using as a headquarters; one of those two planes was downed and the pilot, who ejected, was captured.

The Ukis don't seem to be taking very good care of their military planes.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 14, 2014 5:30:02 PM | 40

Apparently pro-russian demonstrators have gathered close to the embassy, russian news sites have footage.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 14, 2014 5:45:43 PM | 41

@Demian #40:

Sorry, those were fighter jets, not bombers.

As for the transport plane, the Ukis were warned

Vladimir Inogorodsky, spokesman of the self-declared Luhansk People's Republic, confirmed rebels had shot the plane down with Igla missiles and said they were currently blockading the airport. Rebels declared they would not allow any more flights into the airport last week.

"No more airplanes have landed at the airport since last night, and if they do we will shoot them down," he said.

So the junta sent those men to their deaths. Transport planes make easy targets, I should imagine.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 14, 2014 6:05:18 PM | 42

Posted by: Demian | Jun 14, 2014 5:30:02 PM | 40

Posted by: Demian | Jun 14, 2014 6:05:18 PM | 42

There is some question as whether the attackers were Su-24 bombers or Su-25 attack aircraft (the Su-25 is not a fighter).

Strelkov: targeted bombing continues

"In short:

Data on the bat "Drying" was confirmed. Fell yesterday in the area of Starovarvarivka. There are different interpretations about the brand (su-24 and su-25), because, according to some data, captured 2 of the pilot, according to the other one.

Today the su-25 struck wastewater treatment plants, Druzhkovka. Deliberately bombed it is them - although there is no and no to militia.

At Krasnolimanskaya direction was re-battle - the enemy attacked our positions in Yampil, with the support of 2 tanks and several vehicles. The attack reflected, from our side there is a loss in the hospital delivered 2 wounded. The losses of the enemy information while is not present.

Our mortars struck the checkpoint near the highway Kharkov-Rostov-on-turn to the Red Sea. Was getting accurate. Attempt mortar battery of the enemy to open return fire was suppressed after the first shot. However, the losses of the enemy is unlikely great, because he had rilsa in the ground not less carefully than our soldiers in Semenovka."

And once again about the help to Igor Ivanovich from concerned citizens:

"Using this opportunity (as well as urgent and justified the request of friends), bring deep gratitude public organization "spetsnaz Strelkova" for delivered directly to us in the garrison party optics, devices, sights, uniforms, shoes and many other necessary things. Snake respect!"

Some of the translation is obviously mixed up. :)

So the junta sent those men to their deaths. Transport planes make easy targets, I should imagine.

It is the junta nazis who said what unit the men belonged to. Given their track record, I wouldn't put much faith in what they say. Another report claimed the plane was full of mercs and right sector nazis. The aircraft was shot down around 4:30-5:00am, about the best time to try and sneak an aircraft through. The Su-24/25 attack was also about that time. The junta nazis probably fly/attack at that early hour to try and avoid being shot down. So I don't think the transport was intended to be shot down, but instead the opposite, and was bringing important reinforcements.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 14, 2014 6:44:20 PM | 43

@scalawag #43:

I tend to prefer straightforward explanations, so I didn't intend to suggest that the junta wanted the cargo plane to be shot down. What I meant was that since the junta was warned by the resistance not to fly any planes into the Lugansk airport (the Observer unsurprisingly uses the fascist spelling), the junta acted recklessly with those men's lives.

BTW, what you said a week or two earlier about Russia not needing to impose a no-fly zone appears to be confirmed. :-) Apparently, the Igla serves its purpose well. It apparently is designed to be resistant to countermeasures. I don't think scheduling a flight for the early morning is a very effective countermeasure. Did the junta think that the freedom fighters get up late?

As far as I can tell, the junta pretty much needs to keep its planes out of Novorossya, if it wants to keep its air force.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 14, 2014 8:13:46 PM | 44

Posted by: Demian | Jun 14, 2014 8:13:46 PM | 44

"I tend to prefer straightforward explanations, so I didn't intend to suggest that the junta wanted the cargo plane to be shot down. What I meant was that since the junta was warned by the resistance not to fly any planes into the Lugansk airport (the Observer unsurprisingly uses the fascist spelling), the junta acted recklessly with those men's lives."

I misunderstood then. I agree, they probably are reckless, and think of their "tools" as little more than disposable items, like products from Walmart.

"As far as I can tell, the junta pretty much needs to keep its planes out of Novorossya, if it wants to keep its air force."

Looks like it. They've already had to pull their UN lent helicopters to make up losses and I've seen reports they have had to import helicopters from Poland. They had even less fixed wing aircraft that were flyable, and getting replacements for the few they have will be even more "legally" and logistically difficult. Their supply of suicidal pilots is also probably very limited. ;)

There is also this:

Three million rubles for the identity of the pilot, who bombed the peaceful Lugansk (+video)

"The identity of the offender, the gunmen on the center of Lugansk cluster bombs, is still not established. It needs to be identified so that he appeared before the court.

Money was offered by the Verkhovna Rada Deputy from Lugansk Volodymyr Medyanik. Explaining this initiative, he noted that since the shelling of the administration held for 10 days, however, "no one still does not know that it was for the plane and whose team carried out the pilot.

For reliable information about the pilot Medyanik promises to pay one million UAH (about three million rubles). Confidentiality, as the MP said, guaranteed.

In the Verkhovna Rada Volodymyr Medyanik previously belonged to the faction of the Party of regions (he left her at the beginning of June). Commenting on the armed confrontation in Donbass, the Deputy was urgently called to cease fire and begin talks "with all the forces involved in the conflict".

The Novorussians have said the recent captured pilot of the Su-24/Su-25 will be interrogated about his orders and who gave them, and then will be held for investigation of war crimes and possibly trial. The nazi junta will probably run out of willing Ukrainian aircrew soon. It will be interesting to see what nationalities the mercs who replace them will be.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 14, 2014 9:26:15 PM | 45

Everything that comes out of the mouths of the US and the illegal government is nothing but malicious vomit. They don't even have the brains to make their inventions believable.

Posted by: michael | Jun 14, 2014 9:30:04 PM | 46

Western delegations in Security Council blocked Russian condemnatory statement

"Western countries at the UN Security Council have blocked statement proposed by Russia which condemned the attack on the Russian Embassy in Kiev, said to RIA Novosti a diplomatic source in the organization.

"Western delegations in the Security Council blocked the Russian draft of a statement which condemned the attack on the Russian Embassy in Kiev," said the source."

I guess this shouldn't be any surprise, considering those same western nazis organized the embassy attack along with all the other much worse war crimes against the region.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 14, 2014 9:42:57 PM | 47

A comment writer described the western nazis' blocking the condemnation of the western nazi attack on the Russian embassy like this:

"This effectively kills the Vienna Convention. In fact, this pretty much kills the U.N.

And makes all embassies of all nations fair targets.

Welcome to the new Dark Ages, ladies and gentlemen."

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 14, 2014 10:25:36 PM | 48

MoAs

Feeling lyrical, metaphorical, allegorical all this today.

vimeo.com/96573631

Simon Balázs - Erased Tapes

Maybe that's why the world is round?

Posted by: chip nikh | Jun 14, 2014 11:11:55 PM | 49

Posted by: Luca K | Jun 14, 2014 3:55:18 PM | 36

Freedom ends where it infringes on other people's rights. Defamation is penalized. As simple as that.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2014 11:46:28 PM | 50

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2014 11:46:28 PM | 50

Having said that, in no country of the world you speak freely and make a career easily. You always have to work much harder to prove what you say, to win an election, whatever you do, if you go against the mainstream.
It was no accident, former chancellors came out with pro Russian statements. Present politicians tried to play it safe. Those former chancellors were invited to talk shows because, as pensioners, they were prepared to talk without deference.
Contrary to the US, there is a very real connection to Russia with an East-West divide, gratefulness for reunification and there are strong business ties. There is a negative, "Western" attitude, too. What is said in Germany reflects all this.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 15, 2014 12:12:56 AM | 51

Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2014 11:46:28 PM | 50

"Freedom ends where it infringes on other people's rights. Defamation is penalized. As simple as that."

Unless one is talking about "western freedom" and a Muslim whose rights has been infringed upon, defamed, attacked, rounded up, concentration camped....

But you know, the illusion must be reinforced in the untermenschen at all costs.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 12:20:06 AM | 52

Posted by: somebody | Jun 15, 2014 12:12:56 AM | 51

Maybe a few have the sense to see a return to the mentality of 1930's Germany, now that the western oligarchy has adopted a modernized form of that manure as their Holy Grail, as very much the wrong path to take.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 12:39:54 AM | 53

"Freedom ends where it infringes on other people's rights."
Posted by: somebody | Jun 14, 2014 11:46:28 PM | 50

It does indeed.
That's the definition of Freedom in a nutshell.
The Empire's touts & snouts seem to have their own definition but, like all the other infantile claptrap their spin tanks dream up, theirs is conditional and thus fraudulent.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jun 15, 2014 12:52:43 AM | 54

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 12:39:54 AM | 53

Fortunately, there is no danger of that.

This Wall street journal article is lying

Germany never had a "policy of the middle ground". It used to have a militaristic policy of Western and Eastern expansion.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 15, 2014 12:59:25 AM | 55

50 "rebels" killed past hours in ukraine according to RT.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 15, 2014 1:03:25 AM | 56

Russian Spring

Slavyansk.

Strelkov:

The Information about shot down “Su” (jet) was confirmed. It fell yesterday in area of “Starovarvarovka”. Its variant is disputed (Su-24 or Su-25), because 2 pilots were captured according one data, and 1 – according to other.

Today, Su-25s struck water treatment structures of city “Druzhkovka”. They specifically targeted them notwithstanding absence of combatants in the area.

Toward “Red Liman” combat reiterated – the opponent attacked our positions at “Yampole” (“Pit-Field”) supported by 2 tanks and few armored carriers. The attack was repelled, we have losses, 2 wounded were transported to hospital. Damage to opponent is not known so far.

Our mortars struck a block-post on exit of “Kharkov-Rostov” highway at turn to “Red Liman”. There were direct hits. Their attempt to strike back was subdued after just first shot. However, opponent’s damage was hardly significant, because the opponent has dug in as thoroughly as our combatants hasve in “Semenovka”.


Russian Spring
Slavyansk.

Question: The situation in general.

Strelkov:

Yesterday, heavily tussled 2 reconnaissance groups of “National Guard”. One – in a foliage in “Slavyansk Resort”, the other, at night, between “Artem” and the settlement “Severniy” (“Northern”). Opponent’s loss is not certain, at least 4-5 “200ths” (killed) and severe “300ths” (wounded). From us – one lightly wounded.

Yesterday, in a course of artillery fire, were wounded 1 combatant and 2 construction troops of penal detachment (assembled from civilians and military personal committed light criminal offences or serious misdemeanors).

Today in the morning, toward “Red Liman” had worked upon a block-post and a base of the opponent at southern fringe of the settlement “Kirovsk”. Struck by mortars and AGS (automatic grenade launcher). Burned one unit of armored equipment, the opponent lost troops. By reciprocal fire, a commander of detachment was lightly wounded. He remains in ranks.

Question: The Ukrainian forces do not honor conventions that protect civilian population in war time.

Strelkov:

They do not care about Red Cross, or any other conventions, whatever they are. Same as their masters – pendos (amalgam of Pentagon and pedophile (?)). Do hear siren of Ambulances. That means more wounded. Among civilians of course.

Cannon fire restarted.


Posted by: Fete | Jun 15, 2014 1:15:35 AM | 57

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 15, 2014 1:03:25 AM | 56

"50 "rebels" killed past hours in ukraine according to RT."

RT is just reporting it as a news story. It's some western nazi junta handjobber who is actually making the claim.

Posted by: Fete | Jun 15, 2014 1:15:35 AM | 57

"pendos (amalgam of Pentagon and pedophile (?))."

The term пендосы could be a derivative of пиндос. Translated as yank, yankee, septic (Oz slang for Americans), or westie. Which in the context of the way it was used makes sense. Though I think your definition is probably might be a better description of the critter. :)

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 1:38:49 AM | 58

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 1:38:49 AM | 58

The original word is пиндос, however due to Russian phonetics the и [ee] is pronounced as something between [ee] and [eh]. So the word morphed. It is said to have been first used by Russian troops in Kosovo to describe members of the American contingent there. The term is pejorative, somewhat like the Mexican "gringo".

Posted by: Grim Deadman | Jun 15, 2014 2:55:46 AM | 59

Posted by: Luca K | Jun 14, 2014 3:55:18 PM | 36

I don't know the conditions inside Germany, I was just quoting a guy that _might_ know ...

As for the US, anyone who reads Glenn Greenwald's book should be very paranoid. Which, tragically, is just exactly the way the oppressive finance capitalist state, which is causing all our problems, wants us to feel.

Posted by: fairleft | Jun 15, 2014 4:07:49 AM | 60

Does the kiev army bomb mines? Sorry but thats the translation I have seen on many pages.
Anyone could clarify?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 15, 2014 4:31:28 AM | 61

now heres a thought...is ISIS a message sent to Maliki?

'Obama's babbling about Iraqis needing to resolve their conflict is a message to Maliki to either 'choose' the right people, the approved people, or their will be repercussions.
Including the possibility of Maliki being pushed out! Despite his big win.
I am not sure what Obama is aiming for? But am now certain the election win by Maliki triggered the use of ISIS to help bring about the Obama administrations desired results. '
http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/obama-delivered-ultimatum-to-maliki-via.html

Posted by: brian | Jun 15, 2014 5:23:37 AM | 62

'Exactly as Putin's done in Crimea. He's installed his own personal fellow loyal gangster to oversee the gangsterism of Crimea. Crimea is a criminal state run by and for criminals. Everyone else are marks and eventually so much collateral damage.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 14, 2014 1:07:24 PM | 15

someone claimed Cold and Holeinthehead is really Bernard under a pseudonym....

But Bernie wouldnt make the claim that Putin put the current govt in power in Crimea...after all he didnt and we all know he didnt, But Hold and ColdintheHead just likes to show why he should be a journalist thru his creative imagination.
i do think his claim that the crimeans, all 2 milllion + of them, are all criminals, is a bit extreme even for this sociopath

Posted by: brian | Jun 15, 2014 5:48:42 AM | 63

still cant understand why Bernie doesnt bounce Cold and HoleintheHead: apart from dodgy court jester and sidekick, and his amusement value, he's not exactly contributing anything of value to the debate

Posted by: brian | Jun 15, 2014 5:50:40 AM | 64

“Isis” Blitz Run by CIA-France-Saudis-Turkey to Save Syrian Rebels, Topple Maliki, Isolate Iran; Obama Must Work with Assad, Rouhani, Putin to Roll Back Terrorist Threat; McCain Pushing Bonapartist Cold Coup in Washington by Warmonger Gens. Petraeus and Keane; etc
http://tarpley.net/isis-blitz-run-by-cia-france-saudis-turkey-to-save-syrian-rebels-topple-maliki-isolate-iran/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

Posted by: brian | Jun 15, 2014 6:02:29 AM | 65

62

Now here's a thought. ?Is the glacial Pentagon response to ISIL/ISIS really a brazen Sign-the-SOFA message to Afghanistan's new leadership, whoever that turns out to be?

US-KSA-IL have all the time in the world on Iraq. Oil is spiking higher every day.
Believe it or not, major Alberta tar sands projects being shut down as the price of
oil fell below $100 with Iraq now back to full pre-war production, are back in play,
and the Kitimat Pipeline discussion has taken on a sense of urgency.

Delay is profit! Oil wars are good!

The Old Partition of the Middle East is Dead.
I Dread to Think What Will Follow

By Robert Fisk

The new Middle Eastern map substantially increases Saudi power over the region's oil, forcefully lowering Iraq's exports, raising the cost of global oil (including, of course, Saudi oil) and at the expense of a frightened and still sanctioned Iran.

informationclearinghouse.info/article38805.htm

Posted by: chip nikh | Jun 15, 2014 6:29:30 AM | 66

Information Clearing House Reposts MoA

Ukraine: These Tanks ... And The State Department Lies Again:
Apparently three T-64 BVs from the Ukrainian army were captured by federalists some five days ago and are moving somewhere in east Ukraine.
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/06/ukraine-these-tanks-and-the-state-department-lies-again-.html

Posted by: chip nikh | Jun 15, 2014 6:45:11 AM | 67

The Military Balance 2013:

http://depositfiles.com/files/1pse2xmd5

Posted by: rob | Jun 15, 2014 10:00:02 AM | 68

@somebody (50)

"Freedom ends where it infringes on other people's rights. Defamation is penalized. As simple as that."

Buahaha, it had to be you! Infringing 'on other people's rights'?? Defamation?? What the hell are u talking about??

How is looking into alleged historical facts critically the same as 'defamation'? It obviously is NOT. Cowards like u just fear the truth so much u must put a spin on what is simply the most bizarre form of censorship, 'tought crimes' are on the books in the 'freest' Germany of all time. And you must find an excuse for such crap.

Going by the same 'logic', we should just accept the BS stories about Assad's gassings of his own people cause asking questions will upset 'his victims'.

Your behavior is despicable and its clear that u do not believe in free speech.

Posted by: Luca K | Jun 15, 2014 11:54:41 AM | 69

@rob - thank you!

Posted by: b | Jun 15, 2014 12:08:51 PM | 70

@17 "don't poke Uncle Sam, because if you do one too many times, you're toast." Go back to the playground with that and see if they buy it.

Posted by: Snake Arbusto | Jun 15, 2014 5:21:50 PM | 71

"Germany, a relatively new democracy with a past as bad as Russia’s, could develop a democracy, where people can speak openly and feely without fear of failing to get a promotion or getting on an op-ed page."

Where did he get this utter nonsense from? Try saying something against climate change or ultra-genderism in germany publicly, especially if you want a promotion... mucho fun with that!

Posted by: T2015 | Jun 16, 2014 2:15:05 AM | 72

There is a Russophobe Nazi apologist who is very good at geolocating events on videos.

He has a blog named Ukraine@war with some useful analysis. Unfortunately he becomes totally delusional when the evidence does not match his anti-Russian prejudice.

He has a Twitter account, but it is no use arguing with him.

Here is his speculation on the T-64 tanks:
All the evidence that three RUSSIAN T-64B tanks secredly crossed the border

His crucial piece of evidence is a photo of a T-64 on a trailer:

A trailer has been spotted transporting a T-64B in the Rostov area (which is Russian). But it has not been possible to EXACTLY geolocate it yet.

He provides no source for the photo, but Google Image Search shows it was first published by the pro-junta propaganda tweeter "Ukraine Reporter" / ‏@StateOfUkraine on June 13th – the day after the tanks entered Donetsk – with this description:
Reportedly, this Ukrainian tank now in Russia was seized in Crimea & is being sent to Russian fighters in E. #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/RG4KBiQbOR

The rest of the evidence is that a similar (Soviet) tank trailer is later seen with Russian troops.

I must admit one thing though, his case is far, far better then the NATO crap. The NATO statement is like it was written by a 10-year old.
http://aco.nato.int/statement-on-russian-main-battle-tanks.aspx

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 16, 2014 4:35:15 PM | 73

Petri Krohn

So Russia send a Truck from Russia to..Crimea..to east ukraine? Yeah that sounds very credible..NOT.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 16, 2014 5:04:43 PM | 74

El Murid is now claiming that even the satellite image provided is hoax.

http://el-murid.livejournal.com/1875424.html

The overall image is ok, but the enlarged details are cut from somewhere else. This can be seen by comparing ground features in the detailed photos to real features seen in hi-res images on Google Maps. No trees and no concrete slab!

https://yadi.sk/d/lj8aRJoZTYA7S

***

A similar hoax was seen earlier this year when NATO presented "evidence" or Russian troop concentrations near the border. The satellite images were shown to be from military exercises in 2013!

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 16, 2014 9:50:20 PM | 75

Posted by: T2015 | Jun 16, 2014 2:15:05 AM | 72

That is due to the fact that Germans consider you stupid/neanderthal if you try to argue that. Nothing to do with free speech.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 10:44:02 PM | 76

Dude, I am living in Germany. You're obviously living in your own reality, besides being a really bad liar. But then maybe you're living in central Berlin and never left your square mile for the real world, I dunno. Most germans I know are normal people, quite unlike the little gang of psychopaths that are allowed to run things right now and shape the public opinion sowiet-Russia style.

The ditatorship of the "politically correct" green fascists and their relentless brain hygiene will not last long though. You remember the DDR, it died the exactly same death that the DDR 2.0 will. Good riddance.

Posted by: T2015 | Jun 17, 2014 2:08:20 AM | 77

Something is happening in Ukraine this morning: An Novorossiya‬n armored column flying the flag of Crimea among other made a 87 km trek across the Lugansk Republic early this morning.

This is what I counted:
4 × T-64 ‪‎tanks
5 × BTR-80 APCs
7 × Ural trucks, one pulling an anti-aircraft gun
5 × Kamaz trucks

They were first spotted in #‎Krasnodon‬ in the west near the Russian border. Two YouTube videos show them in ‎Lugansk‬. One video shows them passing Alchevsk on a route to Artemivsk or Slavyanks.

5 am: Krasnodon https://youtu.be/6Lg_9EvDKM8
6 am: Luhansk‬ https://youtu.be/tPcPqjEq67A
6 am: Luhansk https://youtu.be/4yObYghms10
7 am: ‪‎Alchevsk‬ https://youtu.be/r8cSPXEoyQI

It is feasible that these tanks came from Crimea through Russia. @djp3tros of Ukraine@war is sure of that, but he sees Little Green Russians everywhere.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jun 20, 2014 6:28:08 AM | 78

Is it a rumour or did the rebels managed to take countless of tanks, trucks etc some hours ago from kiev military?
Some rebel statements say it was 100-200 tanks.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 20, 2014 12:12:44 PM | 79

The comments to this entry are closed.

 

Site Meter