Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 15, 2014

Ukraine: Echoes Of The Third Reich - Yatsenyuk's "Subhumans"

Updated below

Wikipedia - Untermensch:

Untermensch (German for under man, sub-man, sub-human; plural: Untermenschen) is a term that became infamous when the Nazis used it to describe "inferior people" often referred to as "the masses from the East," that is Jews, Gypsies, and Slavs; including Poles, Serbs, Belarusians, Russians, and Rusyns. The term was also applied to black people and Mulattos. Jewish people were to be exterminated in the Holocaust, just as Slavs in Generalplan Ost, who were destined to be removed from European territory under German control through murder and ethnic cleansing.

Embassy of Ukraine in the United States of America - Ukraine’s Prime Minister Yatsenyuk: We will commemorate the heroes by cleaning our land from the evil:

“They lost their lives because they defended men and women, children and the elderly who found themselves in a situation facing a threat to be killed by invaders and sponsored by them subhumans. First, we will commemorate the heroes by wiping out those who killed them and then by cleaning our land from the evil”, - he said.



I: The Embassy has non changed the text quoted above and substituted "subhumans" by "inhumans". We had expected such editing and therefore provided the screenshot of the original publication.

II: We can now add "Lebensraum" to the Ukrainian government's echoes of the Third Reich:

Ukraine's Land Agency give land to soldiers in the east for free

Land parcels will be given out for free to the servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and other military formations, as well as to the employees of Interior Ministry and the Security Service of Ukraine that are defending territorial integrity and sovereignty of the country in eastern and southeastern regions of Ukraine.

Wasn't Land im Osten (land in the east) what the Third Reich also promised to volunteer soldiers?

Posted by b on June 15, 2014 at 07:56 AM | Permalink

next page »

The Ukrainian government has lost it completely, this here from the Russian embassy in Kiew

Deshchitsa arrived at the scene of the heated protest - which involved overturning cars belonging to embassy staff, the desecration of a Russian flag and pelting the building with firecrackers and paint - in an apparent attempt to defuse the crowd.

He confronted some of the protesters - or rather sided with them. Footage of the encounter shows the minister saying he is all for the protest and its goals.

“I would stand up here with you can say, Russia, get out of Ukraine,” he said. “Putin’s a f**ker, right!”


Deshchitsa was not the only Ukrainian politician to make controversial moves at the Russian embassy on Saturday to appease the crowd. MP Nikolay Rudkovsky was also at the scene and was practically forced to hurl a stone at the embassy by the protesters, video footage showed.

However, this didn’t convince everybody of the parliamentarian’s patriotism and loyalty to the people of Ukraine. As he was preparing to leave, a masked protester accused him of being a moneybag driving around in a posh car and sprayed his face with green paint, the same that was used on the walls of the embassy.

They know they will have to talk to Putin but don't know how to convince their people.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 15, 2014 8:12:14 AM | 1

Referring to all Russians as "subhumans" is certainly bigotry in the sentiment of the Third Reich, but if he's only referring to the Russian mercenaries using Eastern Ukrainian non-combatants as foils to sow chaos and discord, then I agree with him. Mercenaries are subhumans, and should be treated as such, regardless of affiliation with The West or The East. Death, vicious death, to all mercenaries of every stripe, and the same for those who support and enable their cowardly tactics.

What I find interesting about your link is the following:

On the situation with Ukrainian orphans taken illegally to Russia

Let's face it, Ukraine has been, since its so-called independence, a criminal state still under the thumb, to varying degrees, of the criminal state of Russia. Crimea and East Ukraine in general are some of the worst areas of corruption. That corruption includes sex trafficking. Mercenaries are scum who would sell their mothers and sisters for the right price. They are not noble rebels or freedom fighters. They are cowardly trash who use non-combatants as cover in asymmetrical guerrilla warfare. Their purpose is to sow chaos and discord. They live for conflict. It is their stock in trade. It's their end goal — not some contrived political cover. They get paid to do what they do best — snipe from behind human, non-combatant shields. So it's not a stretch to believe they would cherry-pick some of the finer female specimens from Eastern Ukraine (the ones who haven't already been plucked) and deliver them to pimps for a life of sexual slavery as is the wont of the Ukrainian and/or Russian mafia — the two of which are joined at the hip.

On June 12, 2014, in the city of Snizhne of Donetsk region, armed persons representing the so-called Donetsk People’s Republic abducted a group of 28 citizens of Ukraine, including 25 orphan children and tutors of family-type children’s homes who were headed for rehabilitation in Dnipropetrovsk region.

The perpetrators forced the bus at gunpoint to change the course and under the escort of armed persons directed the vehicle together with its passengers to Dolzhansky border checkpoint in Lugansk region in order to take them to the Russian Federation.

Later on, one of the accompanying persons with 9 children got off the bus at the crossing of the Ukrainian-Russian border; the other 18 were moved to Russia and currently are in Rostov region of the Russian Federation. As it became known, on Friday, June 13, 2014, the abductors are planning to move the children to Crimea, which continues to be illegally occupied by Russia.

These actions constitute a gross violation of international obligations by the Russian Federation with respect to the rights of children, as well as of international conventions, in particular, Articles 11 and 35 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Taking into account the absence of any permits for removal of children abroad, this allows qualifying the actions as an international kidnapping and illegal movement of children, with appropriate legal consequences for those who perpetrated, aided and abetted in this crime.

The position of the Russian Federation, which makes the Ukrainian children hostage to their political games, must receive an appropriate reaction of the international community.

Ukraine strongly condemns the unscrupulous acts violating the rights of children.

In America, there is a system called the Amber Alert for such kidnappings. People take it very seriously, and when one of these alerts is issued, the perps are apprehended and brought to justice. I'm issuing an Amber Alert for these abducted Eastern Ukrainian children. Vladimir Putin is the kidnapper. He's short and bald with a noticeable Napoleon Complex and was last seen stalking the halls of The Kremlin in Moscow, Russia. Citizen arrests are highly encouraged in apprehending this child kidnapper.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Jun 15, 2014 8:49:43 AM | 2


Come on now ban this "cold n holefield" he is a self declared nazi.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 15, 2014 8:56:08 AM | 3


The ukrainian regime is a desperate group of white trash facists. They had all the chance to make use of their power and then they do this? Calling people subhumans and bombing civilians. If anyone they are the people that are on the bottom. Filth.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 15, 2014 9:07:18 AM | 4

Why ban someone whose stupidity and obvious bias sheds light on their total assbackwards take on current events?A little laughter goes a long way,and lightens up the day.
Scroll on,but don't ban,only Nazis and Commies limit free speech,and one doesn't want that stain,eh?

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 15, 2014 9:08:00 AM | 5

They have to explain to their people that they got them killed for this

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon calls for an immediate end to violence in Eastern Ukraine. According to the UN chief, the Ukrainian military and the rebel forces should cease fire, as the humanitarian situation is worsening rapidly.

"The Secretary General believes that the worsening humanitarian situation in the regions, the deaths of so many people, show that the violence should be stopped at once," a statement issued by the United Nations reads.

The UN chief also voices his support for Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and the Ukrainian people.

Ban Ki-Moon also expresses respect for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 15, 2014 9:14:49 AM | 6

"Mercenaries are subhumans"

Surely the entire Ukrainian Government has been
taken over by so-called Mercenaries.

Posted by: chris m | Jun 15, 2014 9:20:39 AM | 7

@Foolfield, #2:

From Jeff Gates: "Guilt by Association", pp. 89 f.:

McCain campaign manager Rick Davis lobbied for Imagesat, an Israeli firm that sells satellite imagery. He also consulted to Pegasus Capital Advisors, a private investment firm with a financial stake in Imagesat. Pegasus offered Davis and his partner in the Davis Manafort firm a chance to participate in one of its investments. In November 2005, Pegasus acquired a stake in Traxys, a transnational company that trades in industrial metals, a business where Oleg Deripaska made his initial fortune by stripping assets from state-owned enterprises and selling them abroad. Aluminum was an early target.

The criminal network identified in this account typically influences both sides in political contests. Davis Manfort worked in Ukraine for Rinat Akhmetov, the richest man in Ukraine and the principal financial backer of Viktor Yanukovych, the Moscow-backed candidate for the Ukraine presidency. In 1996, Davis served as deputy campaign manager for Republican Bob Dole. Both Dole and Democrat Bill Clinton used Carl Lindner-provided aircraft during their 1996 presidential campaigns.

Posted by: g_h | Jun 15, 2014 9:25:11 AM | 8


This isnt about freespeech this is about a troll that destroy the conversions here. Besides this troll have many times linked to nazi sites. You dont want that nazi-stain here.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 15, 2014 9:40:31 AM | 9

"only Nazis and Commies limit free speech"

This is utter falshood. You should know that ANY political system will limit the free speech whenever it sees THREAT to its existence.

Posted by: ATH | Jun 15, 2014 10:05:13 AM | 10

"The ukrainian regime is a desperate group of white trash fascists...

If you think about it, Anonymous, you will conclude that there really isn't much difference between calling a set of people "subhuman" or "white trash". I ought perhaps to disclose that I am "white trash" myself, so perhaps I am biassed.

Posted by: bevin | Jun 15, 2014 10:56:28 AM | 11

A Jew Yatsenyuk calls russian-speaking ukrainians and russians 'subhumans'. Irony of our days!

Posted by: fromexukraine | Jun 15, 2014 12:05:43 PM | 12

I'm curious about Klit keeping so quiet. Is he being nurtured by the neocons for some special purpose or is he keeping his copy-book relatively unblotted so that he can emerge one day as a more moderate voice in the junta (or perhaps he isn't even perceived as part of it), perhaps with German backing? Even in the early months of the year he looked somewhat uncomfortable in the role assigned to him. I'm also curious to know whether Timoshenko has been utterly discredited (in the eyes of the junta/right, I mean) or is she regrouping for some sort of re-emergence?

Posted by: Petra | Jun 15, 2014 12:33:07 PM | 13

Yatsenjuk is Jewish----
why doesnt he team up with Khordokovsky?

2 crooks in the same boat.

Now thats what i call a winning combination.

Posted by: chris m | Jun 15, 2014 12:50:57 PM | 14

Wow. That's some intensely evil intention from Yats. Nuland knows how to pick 'em.

Posted by: yellowsnapdragon | Jun 15, 2014 1:29:17 PM | 15


ANd on top of that, he get support by the jewish Nuland.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 15, 2014 1:34:18 PM | 16

i basically agree with dahoit @5.. most people can read and think for themselves. if some bimbo wants to say some stupid shit which is obviously bullshit, then why get your girdle in a knot about it? just ignore it. yatsenyuk's comments on the other hand are a serious breach of responsibility coming from a public official. and it is not ironic that 'fuck the eu' nuland had choosen him to lead the under kiev puppet gov't either.. that these folks think they can get away with this shit while saying what they do says they have no sense of their own hubris.

Posted by: james | Jun 15, 2014 2:01:19 PM | 17

The nazi roots in Ukraine's putsch regime are well established and reflect in recent activities tied to Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats in Germany:

That the USA is supportive of these people reflects common origins, also well documented:

No suprizes here except for the open use of the nazi terminology

Posted by: Ronald Thomas West | Jun 15, 2014 2:22:22 PM | 18

I appear to have been banned from the Balloon Juice website for posting comments about Ukraine and the regime's Nazi history.

As much as Cold N. Holefield is a pain, I oppose censorship. I'm not sure if others have noticed, but many western media websites have stopped allowing comments for their stories on Ukraine. New York Times most prominently, but others too.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Jun 15, 2014 2:35:56 PM | 19

Posted by: bevin | Jun 15, 2014 10:56:28 AM | 11

If you think about it, Anonymous, you will conclude that there really isn't much difference between calling a set of people "subhuman" or "white trash".

That's a good example of an oblique defense of the "white trash fascists" that the anonymous writer was condemning. The bevin boy is thinking ahead. If the untermenschen get away with calling the proxies "white trash fascists" it's only a small step to calling their western establishment masters "white trash fascists", and that will make marketing the "kinder, gentler versions" of these "white trash fascists" and their "kinder, gentler" propaganda to the untermenschen more difficult. I mean "white trash fascists" are "white trash fascists", there is no practical way to sugar coat "white trash fascists" as normal people to normal people. Nobody buys that there are "kinder, gentler versions" of "white trash fascists". If the "white trash fascists" label sticks, the only market for the "white trash fascists" propaganda (of all kinds, mild and harsh) will be other "white trash fascists".

I ought perhaps to disclose that I am "white trash" myself, so perhaps I am biassed.

Obviously. :D

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 2:50:30 PM | 20

It's really remarkable that that remark about "them subhumans" was published at the official Ukraine embassy in the US Web site. The ungrammatical "them" sounds exactly like American white trash talk.

Uki diplomatic personnel evidently spend so much time trying to learn the artificial language of official Ukrainian that they don't have time to achieve any level of competency in the English language.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 15, 2014 3:07:03 PM | 21

Kitschko went to Mt. Athos, where he attempted to take Holy Communion and was denied.

Otherwise, he threatens to take up his "duties" in a week or so.

Posted by: sid_finster | Jun 15, 2014 3:09:47 PM | 22

I have it on very good authority that Klits has been on holiday in San Tropez...

Timoshenko has been offered a job at the McCain/Nuland School of International Diplomacy.

Posted by: dh | Jun 15, 2014 3:23:00 PM | 23

The NYT deals with denunciations of the Kiev junta as fascist/neo-Nazi by saying it is all a product of Russian propaganda. Two examples of this can be found today. The first, by Neil MacFarquhar. The second, by Sabrina Tavernise.

A good response to the mainstream defense of the junta is to be found in Israel Shamir's "The Fateful Triangle":

The Russians had the facts on their side, and the West knew that: the US refused entry to Oleg Tyagnibok and other Svoboda leaders (now members of Kiev government) because of their antisemitism as recently as in 2013. But Russian appeals to Jewish and American sensitivities failed to make an impact. They know when to feign indignation and when to hush. Pro-Hitler commemorations are frequent in Estonia, Latvia, Croatia, and cause no lifting of a censorious brow, for these countries are solidly anti-Russian. In March of this year, the Obama administration’s special envoy on anti-Semitism, Ira Forman, flatly denied everything and said to the Forward that Putin’s assertions of Svoboda’s antisemitism “were not credible”. The US wants to decide who is an antisemite and who is not; like Hermann Goering wanted to decide who is a Jew and who is not in the Luftwaffe. In the Ukrainian crisis, the Jews remain divided, and follow their countries’ preferences.

Then there is Peter Lee's ""The Durability of Ukrainian Fascism" which provides a good sketch of how Right Sector is linked to Bandera's OUN-B.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Jun 15, 2014 3:30:29 PM | 24


So you equal racist ideas of russians as subhumans with the special group in the regime I called "white trash"?

That you are a white trash I do not doubt.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 15, 2014 3:32:21 PM | 25

Strange, no mention by MoA of the "white trash fascists" who attacked the Russian embassy in Kiev, with open support of the "white trash fascists" running the nazi junta there for their "white trash fascist" masters in the west. This act, and that the "white trash fascists" failed to condemn it in the UN, that is, tacitly gave their official blessing of it, is a rather more important development than some "white trash fascist" disposable puppet of theirs expressing his solidarity with the mentality behind the "white trash fascists", which everybody already knew about anyway.

Going after the "little guys" instead of the "big guys" is typical obfuscation tactics. The "white trash fascists" in the nazi junta use phosphorus - no mention at MoA. The "white trash fascists" of the western establishment tacitly support an attack on the Russian embassy in Kiev (actually, those "white trash fascists" engineered it), and brazenly brag to the world their approval of the action by refusing to condemn this action by their puppet "white trash fascists", again no mention a MoA. These are events that could seriously undercut the propaganda effort of the west by showing the master is made of the same substance as the disposable flunky. If Yatsenyuk bites the dust, it's no big deal to the western establishment, like replacing a newscaster on a TV show. Besides, he's been replaced already by Poroshenko as the western "face" in the Ukraine.

West gives Kiev carte blanche for any actions - lawmaker

"By blocking Russian draft UN Security Council resolution condemning the attack on the Russian embassy in Kiev the Western countries have given Kiev carte blanche for any actions, head of the State Duma Committee on education, political scientist Vyacheslav Nikonov believes. Russia urged members of the UN Security Council to adopt the resolution on Saturday.

According to the text, UN Security Council should strongly condemn the Saturday attack on the Russian Embassy in Kiev that damaged the building and property of the embassy, as well as put the lives of its staff in danger. The attack seriously impeded the work of the embassy. However, a diplomatic source in the United Nations has told RIA Novosti that the Western countries had blocked the Russian resolution.

"This means only one thing - Kiev is allowed to do everything. I can imagine if any embassy of a Western state was attacked in any country of the world, Russia would surely condemn such actions. And all sensible people, all countries would condemn it, because there are rules of diplomatic practices that are not violated even during wars between states," Nikonov told RIA Novosti.

He noted that the West only scolds those who attacked the embassy "at the level of press secretaries."

"But they do not take an official stance on the issue. This means that Kiev has got carte blanche for any actions," the lawmaker believes.

Nikonov also stressed that the West turned a blind eye "to the mass genocide that the Kiev authorities are carrying out in the South-East of Ukraine, to numerous sacrifices, to the humanitarian catastrophe that is taking place there, to flows of refugees, who rushed into Russia."

"It probably makes no sense to be indignant at the double standards once again. The West has demonstrated time and again that for them the alternative of double standards is triple and quadruple standards. So, I'm not surprised at this stance of the Western countries; I am, of course, outraged in connection with this position," said the MP.

In his opinion, the Western states seek to drive the situation into an absolute dead-end, to aggravate the relations between Russia and Ukraine to a maximum and to try to cause a clash between the two neighboring countries."

I'll bet the western media is covering this about as well as MoA is... ;)

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 3:52:54 PM | 26

The Ukrainian military's chief of staff has been relieved of duties while the downing of the il-76 is investigated. So apparently some in the junta think that sending the plane to Lugansk was reckless, too. The plane originally belonged to an airline. I doubt whether it was even fitted with flares to be used as surface to air missile countermeasures.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 15, 2014 3:53:57 PM | 27

Psaki now has a song about her:

Мурзилки посвящение Джен Псаки

Posted by: Demian | Jun 15, 2014 4:05:25 PM | 28

@26 - another pot shot at moa.. typical from scalawag.. i suppose moa is supposed to comment on everything and if he misses anything he is obviously guilty as charged.. that is positively fascist in nature, which is ironic as this person is opposed to fascism too - supposedly..

Posted by: james | Jun 15, 2014 4:17:49 PM | 29

Posted by: james | Jun 15, 2014 4:17:49 PM | 29

My thought also

Posted by: jo6pac | Jun 15, 2014 4:45:45 PM | 30

Posted by: james | Jun 15, 2014 4:17:49 PM | 29

"@26 - another pot shot at moa.. typical from scalawag.. i suppose moa is supposed to comment on everything and if he misses anything he is obviously guilty as charged.. that is positively fascist in nature, which is ironic as this person is opposed to fascism too - supposedly.."

Here are some pointers to help you play the role better, little jamie. ;)

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 4:59:40 PM | 31

Attack on Russian embassy in Kiev was organised - Russian MP

"Chairman of the State Duma's international committee Alexei Pushkov says the attack on Russia'a embassy in Kiev was organised. "Otherwise, how come the attackers had explosives," he wrote on Twitter. "It was not spontaneous but a thoroughly planned action." Meanwhile, some participants in the attack on the Russian Embassy in Kiev on Saturday have been detained, the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry press service said on Sunday."

Attack on Russian embassy in Kiev spearheaded by Ukrainian tycoon's henchmen - Lavrov

"Members of the Azov battalion, which has been set up and is financed by tycoon Igor Kolomoisky, the governor of Dnepropertovsk, spearheaded Saturday's "disgusting" attack on the Russian embassy in Kiev, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Sunday.

"The leading role in the attack on the embassy was played by fighters from the Azov battalion, which has been set up and is financed by Kolomoisky, whom the current Kiev authorities have appointed governor of Dnepropetrovsk," Lavrov told reporters.

"That's good food for thought for our Western partners, who give all forms of support to any move by the Ukrainian government - it's a good opportunity for them to see what that government does with the powers it acquired after Maidan," the minister aid [added?]."

For those who don't already know, Kolomoisky is the Israeli-Ukrainian oligarch/mafia "don" who also had a major role in the Odessa massacre. A very good example of the sort of "white trash fascists" that west uses to run the Ukraine in their interests.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 5:07:25 PM | 32

MoA is one of the handful of blogs trying to report the truth. The one guarantee is more DoS attacks and trolls.

No doubt, as the Ukraine Civil War heats up and a NATO Russian shooting war is about to commence, MoA will be banned. After that all we can do is wait for incineration for the lucky ones near MIRV missile targets.

Posted by: VietnamVet | Jun 15, 2014 5:11:08 PM | 33

The Truthseeker: NATO's 'Gladio' army in Ukraine (E41)

"The openly Nazi core of Kiev's new army; WikiLeaked cables set Ukraine 'nationalists' in NATO 'dirty wars' abroad; and the 'psychopaths' who run CIA special operations.

Seek truth from facts with the world's leading scholar on NATO's Operation Gladio Dr. Daniele Ganser; Editor of new book Flashpoint in Ukraine - Dr. Stephen Lendman; Intelligence specialist William Engdahl; and victims of the Butcher of Lyon."

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 5:32:06 PM | 34

@31 scalawag - it is calling bullshit when i see it, something you seem to think you are good at when in fact i think you are quite lousy at it!

Posted by: james | Jun 15, 2014 7:48:59 PM | 36

with all we have seen and heard, the title should read:
Further Echoes Of The Third Reich

Posted by: brian | Jun 15, 2014 8:08:39 PM | 37

Summary of news Novorossia. June 15, 2014

Has English subtitles.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 8:13:02 PM | 38

Truth Leaks to People No Matter Information is Filtered through Fine Sieve

"A few days had to pass before it became clear what the Ukrainian President meant talking about the need to cease fire. No, he was not talking about withdrawing chasteners away from Donbass or truce. He meant the use of force to quell the resistance of those who opposed the spread of fascism on Ukrainian soil. The military and the National Guard units predominantly manned by Pravy Sector acting under the orders of Supreme Commander Petro Poroshenko have failed to carry out the mission of putting down the unrest in a week. They had no chance to succeed. No go. So they have started to search for more extraordinary things than just firing conventional weapons…

For instance they used incendiary munitions or phosphorus bombs on June 12 in Slavyansk. It happened right after the vibrant discussions on the possibility of US assistance, including lethal aid. It did not take long for Jen Psaki, State Department spokeswoman, to come up with the conjecture that the bombs were used by «Russians». She is not aware the Russian army does not participate in the conflict. Russia respects its commitments as a party to the Convention on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Certain Conventional Weapons Which May Be Deemed to Be Excessively Injurious or to Have Indiscriminate Effects. Protocol 3 restricts the use of incendiary weapons. It prohibits the use of incendiary weapons against civilians (effectively a reaffirmation of the general prohibition on attacks against civilians in Additional Protocol Conventions) as well as the use of air-delivered incendiary weapons against military targets located within concentrations of civilians and loosely regulates the use of other types of incendiary weapons in such circumstances. The US is not a party to this Protocol. In 2004 the United States used incendiary weapons in Iraq. Americans used such bombs in Vietnam before. In 2009 the US informed the UN Secretary General that its consent to observe article 2 of the abovementioned protocol was subject to some reservations. This approach to the use of weapons prohibited internationally on humanitarian grounds could have influenced the approach of American advisors who told their Ukrainian dependents to use incendiary bombs. On November 29, 2005, speaking at a press conference General Peter Pace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, stated that white phosphorus «is a legitimate tool of the military,» and can be used for illumination, smoke, and incendiary purposes."

The nazi junta in the Ukraine is operating under direct western control. Their war crimes are western war crimes.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 8:31:02 PM | 39

This seems to be a relevant place to make this comment. Last week the big question was whether or not Poroshenko (and his ally Klitshko) would be able to gain control over the Kiev street and push Right Sector back to Lviv. This demonstration in front of the Russian embassy in Kiev seems to have answered that question. The street remains in the hands of the neo-nazis. I was optimistic a week back that Poroshenko would be able to enter into serious discussions with Russia and the eastern Ukrainians. That optimism was based on two assumptions 1) Poroshenko was genuinely interested in solving the eastern Ukrainian insurrection in way that seriously engaged their demands, and 2) Poroshenko could put together a government that would control the neo-nazis.

Well assumption #2 seems wrong. The war will go on.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 15, 2014 8:43:05 PM | 40

No one wants war. But it goes

"In early March the largest media of the neighbouring state agreed on a unified information policy. As a result, in the media, "Independent" extremely rare to find information on the perpetrators of the death of civilians Eastern regions, which Ukrainian journalists why it is often referred to as "terrorists".

Meanwhile, as it turned out, not all the residents of Western Ukraine support nationalist ideas and actions of the Kiev authorities. The majority of respondents KM.RU Ukrainians called for an immediate cease-fire in the Eastern regions of the country. But they refused to disclose their real names or pictures, obviously demonstrates prevailing in modern Western society, the attitude to the freedom of opinion..."

In other words, the Ukraine is now a modern western "democracy" where people are afraid to have their names attached to their opinions because of a very real threat of reprisal. A lot more was discussed in the article, quite interesting. It is obvious that without direct western support and intervention, the nazi element would remained a minor element in Ukrainian politics, rather than become the main enforcer of the western fascist interests in the country.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 9:51:07 PM | 41


The comments are a kick, as well. ;)

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 15, 2014 10:21:58 PM | 42

@ 42

Thanks scalawag - I enjoyed that!

Posted by: crone | Jun 15, 2014 11:08:01 PM | 43

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 15, 2014 8:43:05 PM | 40

I am not sure Poroshenko has full control of all the "army batallions" as quite a few are clearly privately funded.
The tragedy of Ukraine is that their elites are a bunch of robbers where the winner gets all.
The tragedy of Donetzk is that it has been leased for fracking.

From the past 2013 - no Yanukovich was not Russia's man.

President Yanukovych has three strategic objectives in the pursuit of the shale gas revolution.

First, to escape from the disastrous long-term 2009 gas contract signed by prime ministers Yulia Tymoshenko and Vladimr Putin. In 2012, Ukraine paid $432 for1000 cu.m. or 40 percent more than what Italy pays and 20 percent more than Germany. In addition, Ukraine receives two times lower fees for the transit of Russian gas than Slovakia and Hungary.

Second, Kiev believes it will become more geopolitically important in the eyes of Washington and Brussels. Danylo Nesterov wrote in a recent edition of “Ekonomichna Pravda” that “The Americans and “The Family” (the group around President Yanukovych from his home town in the Donetsk region) have never been as close to one another as they are today.”

Third, energy independence and breaking free of Russia’s gas stranglehold could improve the chances of Ukraine’s integration into Europe.

The shale gas revolution represents a strategic milestone in Ukraine’s new drive for energy independence. Yanukovych’s economic nationalism may yet prove to be more constructive than ethno-cultural nationalism promoted so avidly by his predecessor Yushchenko.

I hear Poroshenko is close to Yushchenko and employs his political crew. But whatever, you don't join the EU for nationalism and if there is a country that cannot afford nationalism it is Ukraine.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 15, 2014 11:48:06 PM | 44

Russian Spring



I am not worried about ”Lisichansk” – Mosgovoy’s detachment is strong, and we constantly interact. At any point may lend him support. Since he does not ask – therefore able to manage by own meens.

I think that most difficult conditions are under “Amvrocievka”. This city is blocked from everywhere by sizable Ukrainian forces, but the garrison has little experience and is very small – hardly greater the Mariupol’s. And positioned right on direction of main hit by Ukrainians, which is along the border. With high probability, the city will fall by today or tomorrow (and again, by the same scenario as Mariupol), Then, Ukrainians will spend a day to solidify the hold and for punitive activities, and without haste (they can not move quickly) will move on to another city. This city needs defenses get ready. Precisely, few of them at the same time. You can trace this route too – not necessarily be a strategist even once.

Farther on, will start what I have written before many times: most battle worthy combat units are engaged in defenses of “Slavyansk”, “Kramatorsk”, “Lisichansk” and similar. They can not downsize without risk of breaching here. On the other hand, units dislocated in “Donetsk”, having practically no successful campaigns, lacking sufficient heavy weaponry, will defend poorly (as opposed to the “Slavyansk” garrison, their option is to retreat – the border is near). Unless urgently in advance they are equipped by heavy weapons in quantities bewildering Ukrainians (such as a dozen of operable tanks – this is enough, and same number of cannons + a couple of anti-aircraft complexes “Tunguska”), we will soon observe a huge “bladder” or “kettle” similar to “Stalingrad’s”, in which will dangle, on most remote fringe, You Humble Servant (who is anyway practically almost encircled) . Delivery of all necessities (including water, medicine, bread and ammunition) will cease, and, after several weeks of “heroic” (in quotes, because the heroism at war is often a consequence of betrayal, sabotage or just incompetence) battles, we will “bid you farewell”. Surely, some one will breakout through the cordon. I am 100% sure ataman Kozitsin will…

Posted by: Fete | Jun 16, 2014 12:21:08 AM | 45

Somebody, as one who has followed the shale gas discussion in the US and listened to many oil experts it seems to me that the economic value of shale gas is extremely over-rated. It sounds like individual fields can be profitable over the short term but yields are very limited -- maybe a few years but not a few decades.

The Siberian gas fields will be productive for more than a century. This noise about shale gas is mostly political propaganda to the extent that it will have any significant effect on

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 16, 2014 12:25:02 AM | 46

Posted by: ToivoS | Jun 16, 2014 12:25:02 AM | 46

I know, but individual short term profit is what this is about. I guess, Slaviansk, where most of the fighting is, has the easiest to extract stuff.

Keith Crane, director of the Environment, Energy and Economic Development Program at the Rand Corporation, told CNBC that the idea of the U.S. exporting gas is "just ridiculous" because it would be too expensive and would take far too long to bring to fruition.

Even if the short-term looks difficult for Ukraine, there's possible relief in the long run. Both Crane and Kettenman stressed that Ukraine could greatly benefit from embracing its own shale gas as it moves forward in their hope to become self-sufficient.

"Ukraine could dramatically reduce their vulnerability by becoming more energy-efficient and pricing domestic natural gas at the cost of the resource," Crane said.

"Shale will be used. We have acting contracts to explore our shale fields with western energy companies," Yuriy Sergeyev, Ukraine ambassador to the United Nations, said in a statement to CNBC. "By the way, the biggest shale field is located in Sloviansk, where Russian mercenaries are spreading chaos and terror."

Energy is highly politicised and most of it is state subsidized in one way or the other. So if European money can be collected for the "energy independence" of Ukraine lots of people will profit - not Russia.

It all depends on price - but you can bet on high energy price in the future. And bet on Russia.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 12:55:07 AM | 47

It is one geopolitical project - an independent nationalist Ukraine.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 1:48:10 AM | 48

"Independent", in which universe?

Posted by: T2015 | Jun 16, 2014 2:04:54 AM | 49

Looks like the Russians had finally enough:

​Gazprom stops supplying unpaid-for gas to Ukraine as deadline passes — RT Business

There will be no more delays for Ukraine to start paying for gas it gets from Russia, gas giant Gazprom announced. After failing for months to cover its gas bill, Kiev now has to pay for any gas it wants in advance.

“This decision was taken due to systematic failure of Naftogaz Ukraine to pay. The debt of the company for Russian gas stands at $4.458 billion, including $1.451 billion for November and December 2013, and $3.007 billion for April-May 2014,” Gazprom said in a statement posted on their website.

Posted by: Fran | Jun 16, 2014 3:13:57 AM | 50

Sound analysis of what is going on

Moreover the West is, in reality, footing the entirety of the bill: since revolution in Kiev, Russia has cut its gas subsidies to Ukraine which is now having to pay billions of US Dollars extra per year to Russia for its energy supplies. The Ukrainian state being bankrupt, the West is paying through IMF credits and other international funds. Russia has nothing to lose. ... The People’s Republic of Donetsk therefore seems likely to be perpetuated as a chronically unstable catastrophe. Russia wants neither independence nor sustainable federalisation. For the time being she desires just chaos, and exhaustion of the West’s energies. Her interests will always be more sustained than those of the west, by reasons of geographical proximity and the strategic importance of the region to her sovereign interests. In the medium term, Vladimir Putin no doubt calculates that the Ukrainian people will regret the nationalist course into which the Europeans and Americans goaded them, irrespective of the perfections of the Yanukovych regime. He will find another more agreeable face for Russian interests in Kiev politics, and in time he will use Russia’s massive wealth to elevate that person to government. Within four to six years, Ukraine may once again fall into the Russian orbit.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 3:29:31 AM | 51

hell has just frozen over

Posted by: brian | Jun 16, 2014 3:58:39 AM | 52

Lavrov, as usual, telling truth that won't be reported to the people (the chumps in the US who're having Cold War II foisted on them by their rulers) who need to hear it the most.

Ukrainian authorities 'act with impunity' because Western counterparts shield them - Lavrov

The Ukrainian authorities "act with impunity" on various issues because they are "shielded by our Western partners, or by some of them, at least," and their "irreconcilable" position in talks on natural gas trade with Russia is one way this "impunity" manifests itself in, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Sunday.

"We hope this arrogant and uncompromising position is not backed by a third power, although we have some reasons to think so."

"I cannot escape the feeling that the Ukrainian are either being advised by someone with the aim of making them take irreconcilable positions on all these issues or are intoxicated with success," Lavrov noted, according to ITAR-TASS reports.

"It's a source of worry for us that this impunity manifests itself increasingly often," he said ...

Posted by: fairleft | Jun 16, 2014 4:29:23 AM | 53

With the gas shut off to the nazi junta, will the EU start accusing Russia of short supplying them when the junta again begins siphoning the EU's gas as it passes through the Ukraine?

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 16, 2014 4:36:58 AM | 54

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 16, 2014 4:36:58 AM | 54

It's a problem for public show - the EU has to pay anyway as Ukraine is bankrupt, all they have to do is pay direct and credit it to Ukraine's account. I believe the EU has a deal with Russia already. They can do the face saving of buying it from Russia direct and then "sell" it to Ukraine.

Same applies for South Stream - Russia will go to the WTO to decide on the EU's opionion that Gazprom cannot be owner of pipelines in addition to supplier, Bulgaria will have reelections with the contender saying he will reopen the contract for the building of the pipelines according to EU guidelines.

All Ukraine is supposed to do now is get a cease fire - which they seem to be unable/unwilling to do without negotiating with Russia.

DNIPROPETROVSK, Ukraine—European leaders pressed Moscow to help implement a cease-fire between pro-Russia militants and Ukrainian forces after the downing of a military plane this weekend raised pressure to stop the growing bloodshed in Ukraine's east.

French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius urged his Russian counterpart in a phone call Sunday to help broker a cease-fire a day after French President François Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel urged Russian President Vladimir Putin to do the same.

Poroshenko has called for Western sanctions. Something has got to give.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 5:12:15 AM | 55

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 5:12:15 AM | 55

When the west had their boitois Poroshenko & co. order the use of phosphorus on civilians (they again used this on sunday), they pretty much sealed the fate of their nazi banderastan. I'll be surprised if Poroshenko isn't living in a prison cell or the USA/Canada by Christmas.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 16, 2014 6:01:00 AM | 56

Seeing "white trash" being thrown around this thread in ways that have no relation to how the term was derived can only mean that the term is misused. Coming from the south, I have a long memory of the terms use, also historical memory how it came into the language. It came out of the south after the end of the Civil War. It was a term to denigrate white people to the status of negros. Later, it became a term applied to the laboring class, also with the pejorative intent of equating working class with negros. As it's being used here by scalawag and Anonymous it seems to just be a term of derision with zero relevance to the discussion.

My condolences to bevin.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 16, 2014 6:23:59 AM | 57

In Russia, found three shells of the Ukrainian military

"Unexploded shells found near the village Primorskogo in the Rostov region, just one kilometre from the border with Ukraine.

It is reported that the shells could get to the territory of the Rostov region after the use of Ukrainian military artillery in the border settlements.

- June 15, the residents of the village Primorskogo, which is located a kilometre from the line of the state border, were found three unexploded shells, which clearly came from the territory of Ukraine and not like an ammunition of times of the great Patriotic war, - the press-service of FSB of Russia in the Rostov region have informed."

Apparently not all the artillery shells fired by the bandera nazis across the border with Russia last week exploded. At least 3 were duds. The article doesn't say what kind of artillery shells were found.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 16, 2014 6:30:09 AM | 58

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 16, 2014 6:23:59 AM | 57

Nice try, tribal support networker, but the "white trash" I was referring to is the "white trash" running western countries and their colonies, such as banderastan, and the nazi bootlicks that do do their dirty work for them. "White trash" is a defective state of mind, not a result of economic class discrimination. But if you want to identify yourself with the "white trash" running the west, hey, it's your thing... :D

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 16, 2014 6:43:17 AM | 59

I hade no idea there were people here that got offended by me calling the regime white trash. I am so sorry. Didnt know there were people here taking pride being white trash.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 16, 2014 6:44:21 AM | 60

scalawag, I'm confused. When I watched the video of the incendiarys/white phosphorus falling they were from aircraft. Now if these were artillery shells why would they be fired into Russia except to provoke Russia into invading. That seems unlikely to me. FSB in this story makes me think there may be a little propaganda attached to the 'incident'.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 16, 2014 6:47:25 AM | 61

Gas Price and South Stream climb down by Oettinger

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 6:48:43 AM | 62

scalawag, glad you cleared that up:

"..."White trash" is a defective state of mind, not a result of economic class discrimination."

maybe a good new defintion - or not. "defective" (?), OK, now I know what you're talking about.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 16, 2014 6:56:19 AM | 63

The EU is looking for a compromise because they know they're going to be the ones paying.

VIENNA, June 16 (Reuters) - The European Union's mediator in a gas standoff between Russia and Ukraine urged Moscow on Monday to consider a compromise gas pricing offer for deliveries to Ukraine and he said he hoped to convene more talks this month.

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 16, 2014 7:02:36 AM | 64


Why arent pathetic EU tell that to ukraine/us that block a deal?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 16, 2014 7:07:00 AM | 65

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 16, 2014 6:47:25 AM | 61

"scalawag, I'm confused.

I know.

When I watched the video of the incendiarys/white phosphorus falling they were from aircraft."

What video are you talking about?

"Now if these were artillery shells why would they be fired into Russia except to provoke Russia into invading. That seems unlikely to me. FSB in this story makes me think there may be a little propaganda attached to the 'incident'."

Last week, the banderas fired their artillery into Russian territory. This was near a border post where the banderas and the Novorussians were fighting and it was assumed they were stray shots, not intentional. There were several articles about this in the Russian media. I don't remember the names of the border post or town mentioned, but I assumed the found shells were part of that artillery shoot since I have seen no information about other banderastan artillery barrages crossing the Russian border. The banderastan artillery shells found in Russia had nothing to do with the phosphorus attacks on civilians in Novorossia.

As for your smear of it being FSB propaganda, you are simply expressing your own indoctrinated anti-Russian prejudice. After your lame strawman attempt to smear me for referring to the western rulers as "white trash" to support your pal bevin, your anti-Russian prejudice doesn't come as a surprise, but is expected.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 16, 2014 7:08:50 AM | 66

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 16, 2014 7:07:00 AM | 65

They don't block a deal. They are just posturing for their constituencies. Truth is the EU will not accept them as long as there is military conflict, neither will NATO. And the end of military conflict is conditioned on them getting along with Russia, so no NATO and an EU association conditioned on agreement with Russia.

Presumably, they are happy to have their revolution fighting in the East. Some time they will have to come up with a solution for their country though as people's patience is limited - and not everybody will buy the line that it is all Russia's fault.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 7:19:28 AM | 67

Gazprom press conference

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 7:22:45 AM | 68

scalawag, I missed - "several articles about this in the Russian media." Thanks for the info, I'll look for them.

As for your use of "white trash" your definition of the word is outside any prior use I've ever heard, and I've heard the term my whole life, 70 years and counting. Still, glad to know you mean "defective". Not a "strawman", buddy, just calling bullshit when I see it. Your jiggering the defintion when your bullshit was called comes as no surprise.

As for "FSB propaganda", do you imagine there isn't any?

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 16, 2014 7:28:31 AM | 69

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 6:48:43 AM | 62

Nothing new from the EU, same old crap. There is no South Stream "climb down", either, just the same old crap.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 7:19:28 AM | 67

The EU is playing "good cop" to the USA/banderastan "bad cop" with regard to Russia and the western war on the Ukraine. They have been doing this all along. The EU is not Europe, it's an association of oligarchs who view Europeans as cattle to exploit. Europeans don't really have much say in their governments or media any more.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 16, 2014 7:33:11 AM | 70


Its called a blockage whetever the reason ukraine/us might use not to make a deal with Russia.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 16, 2014 7:54:07 AM | 71

Of course South Stream will be built - just like North Stream.

Gazprom won all the gas disuputes - no new stuff.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 8:02:57 AM | 72

As more evidence that Russia was never far from the targets of US aggression even when Bush was "looking into Putin's soul", i was reminded that in Judith Miller's 2002 Iraq hit pieces, there were allegations that Russian scientists were "helping Iraq build WMDs".

Glad to see scalajerk is still at it, girlish emoticons and all. There's certainly worse people about, Mold E. Gloryhole being first on the list. Nazi prick.

Posted by: guest77 | Jun 16, 2014 8:05:48 AM | 73

I don’t think the article referred to by somebody “Sound analysis of what is going on” comment 52 Quite hits the mark,however.
It concentrates too much on events from the macro point of view aka the Big Picture.
Whatever is being played out in the Ukraine over the past few months and the coming next Few days is being played out on the micro-scale.
Obviously gas supplies to both the EU and Ukraine are being used as a political weapon by all sides concerned
(its got nothing to do with ability/inability to pay off debts; after all both the EU and the US have got blank checks,
and they have no problem with clearing Bankers losses at their local casinos.
Its not quite a case of Cant Pay Wont Pay.
In the same way that during the recent ,and continuing Euro currency crisis of 2011/12 was being manipulated by the Germans or the EU (they cant quite make up their minds as to who is running the show there)
Via manipulation/control of interest rates.

Basically the Germans control Western EU economies via interest rates,while Russians control Eastern EU via gas supplies.
(And US/UK are trying to control planet via Nato, and their banking cabals, though prob not for much longer)

Unfortunately , we cannot see the overall picture from the micro scale (you cant always trust the MSM anymore anyway, they are too unreliable), so one can only guess as to events, as they are being played out on the ground.
However,this was not the case with the Euro crisis of 2011/2012 (interest rate information was easily available on a minute-by-minute basis via Bloomberg)

Posted by: chris m | Jun 16, 2014 8:11:25 AM | 74

From the past

EU premiers plead with Ukraine and Russia for gas ... Gazprom is demanding Kiev hand over $614 million for unpaid gas bills and pay $450 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas in 2009. That is similar to rates paid by EU customers but a big rise on last year's price of $179.5.

Analysts in Kiev say Ukraine, saddled with debt and hard hit by the global slowdown, cannot afford that price.

The gas row reflects poor political relations between Russia and Ukraine. Moscow is vehemently opposed to moves by Ukraine's pro-Western leadership to join the U.S.-led NATO alliance.

For some reason they play this again and again ...

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 8:14:23 AM | 75

Posted by: okie farmer | Jun 16, 2014 7:28:31 AM | 69

I'll look for them.

Yeah, I'm sure you will.

"As for your use of "white trash"...

I'm well acquainted with your definition of "white trash", having dated several women from the American south (back in the 70's and 80's they were easy pickins' due to southern male ignorance of female sexuality ;) ). So you object to my applying the term to your leaders, that says more about you than it does about me.

As for "FSB propaganda", do you imagine there isn't any?

Why don't you define and provide examples of what "FSB propaganda" is?

BTW, I didn't see a link to a video showing the air dropped phosphorus you mentioned, whitey. ;)

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 16, 2014 8:14:42 AM | 76

Posted by: guest77 | Jun 16, 2014 8:05:48 AM | 73

"Glad to see scalajerk is still at it, girlish emoticons and all."

I see the "mature" wing of the AZZ smearbot spam has arrived. Maybe I'll get to be called a nazi now. ;D

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 16, 2014 8:18:55 AM | 77

8;Gates book should be required reading for Americans,showing all the links of the Zionist buying of American pols,not least the organized crime connections of McCain and his wife.A revelatory and relevant tome.
Ideology sucks,the bird with two wings flies best,as it uses it's wings in tandem,not against each other.Different solutions for different problems.This American wants a strong safety net,more SS and Medicare for all,a more civilized approach to birth control,closed borders,protectionism,the curtailing of slave outsourcing and the ending of privatization and this idiotic war of terror.A govt of the people by the people,as uttered by one of last American heroes,Abe Lincoln.(And now the Southern brethren will bring up the Northern War of Aggression,sheesh,give it a rest already.Slavery sucked.)

Posted by: dahoit | Jun 16, 2014 10:24:02 AM | 78

Russia's Soros

Ah civic society

not what it is supposed to be :-))

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 10:30:12 AM | 79

"white trash" is getting old. The foremost of social dichotomies is between classes not races. The powerful vs the underdog, the owner vs the renter, the manager vs employee. You think there are no Black bankers?

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 16, 2014 10:56:02 AM | 80

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 16, 2014 10:56:02 AM | 79

So "scum, formerly the underclass"?

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 11:18:05 AM | 81

So "scum, formerly the underclass"?

lumpen-proletariat in the official jargon, some white, some black, some beige.

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 16, 2014 1:10:33 PM | 82

Posted by: ruralito | Jun 16, 2014 1:10:33 PM | 81

I think you call them "precariat" nowadays - anyone can join any time.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 1:30:25 PM | 83

RT now report how bombs have been found to be used against russian consulate in Odessa.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 16, 2014 1:59:28 PM | 84

Reports in russian media is that the rebels in donetsk area saying they cannot face the enemy, urge Russian help.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 16, 2014 2:07:07 PM | 85

@Anonymous 84
Sounds like a feint. They've got a giant stockpile of weapons. They know Russia won't help them in battles; only occasional armaments. Twenty bucks US to your favourite charity says another major event on the order of a plane being shot down, or some US/Polish mercs being captured this week.

Posted by: Johan Meyer | Jun 16, 2014 3:58:22 PM | 86

@Anonymous #84:

Indeed. Recent posts by the Saker and his local correspondent Juan give the impression that they are in la-la land.

ATTENTION! An important statement of Igor strelkov: I Now call for the URGENT PROVISION of large-SCALE MILITARY ASSISTANCE (Yandex trans.)

Posted by: Demian | Jun 16, 2014 3:59:49 PM | 87

@Johan Meyer #85:

I don't think so.

Extra video message from the commander of the militia DND Igor Strelkov

This is done in order to show to all the cities of Donbass, what will happen to them next. They smashed Slavyansk. Here in Russia ran over half the population. Now they break Kramatorsk, it is more Slavyansk. We get tens of thousands of refugees, most of which are in Russia. Russia to receive tens, hundreds of thousands and then millions of refugees, as far as I know, absolutely not ready. For Kramatorsk go Druzhkovka, Konstantinovka, Gorlovka, Makeyevka, Donetsk, Lugansk, further - everywhere. How does the Ukrainian army, we see.

Short forecast. The main force of infantry enemy moved to the North of Lugansk region and to the South of Donetsk. Every day they are moving forward on 10-15 kilometers, methodically cutting off the "rebellious" regions from the border with Russia. Cutting aid to all. Ranging from weapons and ammunition, which hypothetically ever can be delivered to the food and drugs. I can assure you that if Russia does not take urgent measures, they will succeed.

Even several thousand militia who focus now along the border, with several tanks, multiple instruments, may with a large number of machine guns and grenade launchers still cannot long survive aviation, artillery, mass tanks. The ratio of tanks can be measured 1 to 500, BMP - 1 to 300, 1 800 artillery, about the aviation I am silent. A week has passed, two, three, maybe a month, the most combat-ready part of the militia will be exhausted sooner or later broken and destroyed. How the enemy acts that we have seen in Mariupol.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 16, 2014 4:15:20 PM | 88

Pursue the Ukrainian authorities?

"The entry of Russian troops in Donbass is one of the most favourable variants of development of events for the Kiev guide. Largely for this and have been made such a loud provocation - the shooting of civilians ago may, Odessa, shootings hospitals, insulting Putin Dedica, delayed negotiations on gas, the Ukrainian BTR on Russian territory - all this is done in order to provoke Russia to the troops. To understand why put yourself in the place of Kiev leaders.

So. In a parallel universe, you (the reader) - a representative of the Kyiv authorities... You interesting power, money, influence, power and money. Recently you came to power and promised Paradise. To dorvalsy to power was not easy. For the sake of power in promised, promised and promised. Promised positive changes in the country, promised to fight corruption, improve quality of life, membership in the European Union, and much more. Promised intensive and time consuming. Believe you. These beautiful words happened masses of people. It has been 3 months and that got the country? The country is bankrupt.

If Poroshenko will tell the truth (all bad and will only get worse) - it quickly hangs. It remains only to lie and to divert attention. External enemy at all times was forced to forget about the problems in the face of hardship. When the Russians can come and hungry. But here's the problem - Muscovites not come. You can lie in the East runs the Russian army, but if it's not there - it's not there. The truth seeps and people even if publicly and not admit it in my heart and see that no Russian military is not at war with Ukraine.

On Donbass Kiev in General don't care. He wasn't in control. I think in Kyiv if anyone hopes to bring it under control, it no longer considers this possibility as the principal. Limited troops in Donbass is the best gift for the junta and their American hosts. Exemplary actions, shootings hospitals, residential areas and other high-profile show made in order to hurt the average Russian. Normal man looking at all of this will start to demand that Putin's troops ("Vova, why we do nothing?

You have nothing to eat? Now the Muscovites also have attacked them - these are all questions
The country is stolen? Tariffs are high, visas do not give? "you heartless bastard, war, and you about such trifles worry!
The hosts, the Americans a reason to put a base under sideways in Russia
The owners are very important to configure Ukrainians against Russians. To configure enough to eliminate the possibility that the unions and warm relationship to the maximum
Now let's imagine 30 million hungry (literally) fanatics, who are sure that all their troubles to blame Russia and the explosions in the metro is not far away.
For the hosts it will put a cross on the transit of gas that will open access to American companies on the European market.
The army today Ukraine does not understand what is at war, but as soon as comes Russian occupants - immediately becomes clear.
To recover quickly Donbass will not work. Five years at least there will be serious problems. During this time, all will be very simple blame on Russia and configure another Donbass against Russia.
Americans will do everything so that the conflict was protracted, and Russia it is caught.

The result of this: for Kiev intervention Russia will not solve all problems. It is very important to look at the situation through their eyes, not your own. These people don't care about the country, these people don't care about people, these people don't care about what will happen to their country. These people not to spit only on its own power, money, and personal safety. Their problem is to stay in power in a difficult period. The solution to this problem they're busy. Therefore limited troops will solve all their problems, not the problems of the country.

Enter wax all over Ukraine, I think everybody understands is excluded. A big country and 70% of the territory will meet us as occupiers. This variant is excluded. The risk is huge. The junta knows that Russia will not agree to a massive military operation because provoking Russia is sure that Russia will be restricted to the Donbas.

What will happen if Russia will not impose troops? Inevitably there will come some events:

People more and more will begin to understand that there are no Russian troops in Ukraine
Money on the military operation will soon be over. War is very expensive
Even before the money will run out of motivation of military
Information about the crimes of the junta will trickle down to the masses
His anger people sooner or later, will be addressed to the leadership of the country, and anger in Ukraine galore
The probability of the final loss of Donbass - very high
Very high probability that Ukraine will begin to break other regions and Ukraine is no money in order to keep them.
Realizing that smell the political forces will begin to shift the blame for everything on those in power. Inside the powers that be start a war for survival. All drown each other. Will indict them in what they are guilty and not guilty. This is standard policy thing.
When spiders in the Bank will start each other to devour very likely will emerge new facts about the events of February, about executions of people on Maidan. Because among themselves is very likely will fight those who it is and organized.

Without Russian interference leadership of Ukraine will be a very difficult period. The probability that in a year Poroshenko will hang on the gallows in the center of Maidan, or runs out of the country is very high. To sit back is bad enough, but worse to give the junta what she needed and what will help her to stay in power. The best that we can do in this situation - we do - accelerated fall of the junta of information and political support to the militias."

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 16, 2014 5:20:59 PM | 89

@scalawag #88:

Thanks for the pep talk (no irony intended). Yes, Russia sending in troops is the best possible thing that could happen for the junta.

The UNSC is reportedly meeting now in closed session about the Ukraine.

Also, according to the junta, Russia has shut off the gas. That's obviously something the junta wanted, since Rosneft had offerred the Ukis a very generous discount of $100 less than what the Europeans pay.

Posted by: Demian | Jun 16, 2014 5:46:36 PM | 90

'US aggression even when Bush was "looking into Putin's soul",'

Bush was curious as to what a soul was...he had heard rumors of it, but its so rare in the US he had to go abroad to see what one was like

Posted by: brian | Jun 16, 2014 6:08:16 PM | 91

The premise that a native Southern sympathizer with the North also had more sexual prowess than a loyal Southerner is hilarious.
Having said that, I do notice that small town Euro-American military vets, particularly from the South, are much more likely
than their minority counterpart Iraq vets to retain a belief in the goodness of the Iraq War and even want to back to finish the job.
You have to pretty far secessionist right to find a demographic that's anti-imperial, anti-war and anti-Zionist.
But Ralph Nader has the right strategy in that regard.

Posted by: truthbetold | Jun 16, 2014 8:16:04 PM | 92

The Atlantic Council in praise of oligarch militias - embedded with the Azov battalion.

The Azov Battalion is a volunteer unit of mainly Russian-speaking Ukrainians from the country's east – the focus of separatist activity intended ultimately to incorporate large swathes of Ukraine into Russia. Around 200 men from the battalion were joined by soldiers from the Ukrainian army, national guard, and other volunteer units making a force of about 400 men and coordinated by an army general heading the government's "anti-terrorist operation" in Donetsk. ... Most of the battalion are well under thirty years old, many in their late teens or in their early twenties. Most have never had any military experience and underwent just three weeks of training at a national guard post or army camp before becoming battle-ready members of the battalion. ... Because so many of the battalion's members are from eastern Ukraine, they wear balaclava masks to hide their faces for fear that if they are recognized, their families – many living in separatist-controlled areas – will come to harm. For the same reason they use noms-de-guerre. ... As in most conflicts, some of the fighters look far too young to be risking their lives in battle. ... A few of the older members had served in the Soviet army in Afghanistan. Some Ukrainian patriots had volunteered to fight alongside Georgians fighting the Russians in the 1990s and 2008. Some had joined Chechen forces fighting the Russians in the 1990s and made bitter remarks about the Chechen mercenaries who had been sent across the border by Moscow along with other "volunteers" to bolster the pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine.

Let me guess, there are fighters under 18 maybe under 16 years old.

Apart from that - to send masked youngsters into areas is no recipe for winning hears and minds. And there does not seem to be a design to hold the place - they would have to take their masks off at one stage.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 8:48:58 PM | 93

Matt Lee asks the Whitehouse Spokesperson for her comments about the "subhuman"

She says Yatseniuk stands for a "peaceful resolution".

Posted by: somebody | Jun 16, 2014 9:27:00 PM | 94

Russian Spring

Russian Spring


Comment: The last two messages from Strelkov share leitmotiv of sadness:

The opponent has transferred significant infantry and tank forces to the north of “Lugansk” and to the south of “Donetsk” regions. Every day these march 10-15 km forth, methodically cutting off rebellious regions from the border with Russia. Cutting off all help. From arms and ammunition, which hypothetically could be purveyed, to supply of provision and medicine. May assure you, if Russia will not urgently countermeasure, the opponent will succeed…

The current devastation of economy and population I foresaw one and half months ago, and urged for a peace keeping force to fend it off. No one heeded. Now is too late – plainly, no peace keepers can enter here without combat. Now that I call for IMMEDIATE LARGE-SCALE MILITARY ASSISTANCE. It does not come. In one-two weeks (or sooner), the military defeat of most of Donetsk and Lugansk People Republics armed forces may follow. For the disadvantage in heavy armaments is overwhelming…

Where can the optimism be drawn? From minute self achievements? Those are purely tactical. Whereas strategically, we have been losing since long ago. I can see open sabotage in Russia top bureaucrats’ approach to the question of supporting Novorossia…

… “russian spring” will be killed in roots by “ukrainian freeze”…

Posted by: Fete | Jun 17, 2014 12:02:31 AM | 95

Here we go again:

us, eu ready more sanctions on RUssia

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 17, 2014 1:02:29 AM | 96

The war in the South East Online 17.06.2014 (post updated)

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 17, 2014 1:18:28 AM | 97

Moscow refuses to deal with acting Ukrainian FM Deshchytsa - Lavrov

"For us Deshchytsa is a renegade. By looking at him one recalls a good expression: if you do not know how to drink, then don't," Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told Russian reporters in Belgrade on Monday.

Posted by: scalawag | Jun 17, 2014 1:32:21 AM | 98

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 17, 2014 1:02:29 AM | 95

What did Victoria Nuland really say? I am afraid press tv's summary is selective.

This is is an Austrian Publication - reporting the same, but also the White House spoxwoman with
"US call for Russia to continue negotiations on gas delivery with Ukraine on the basis of the EU proposal which the US considers fair and reasonable"

Nuland said to the Marshall fund that Putin risks a next round of sanctions the EU/US had agreed on.

So nothing new. Just Nuland inventing reality. And sure Iran/Press tv would like a US/Russian row.

Last time I looked France was still selling the Mistral to Russia.

No, we do not believe Russia to be a threat over here.

Posted by: somebody | Jun 17, 2014 1:58:45 AM | 99


Yes? Us an eu plan more sanctions just as i said.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 17, 2014 2:43:45 AM | 100

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