Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 20, 2014

The Non-Disastrous Russia-China Alliance

The President of the Russian Federation is in China and pursues various economic deals with the country. A huge gas deal, though it may not get signed yet, is in the making in which Russia will deliver natural gas and oil to China over a period of 30 years. The payments will be made in rubles and yuan leaving the dollar out of the business.

This is the long expected start of an Eurasian axis. Russia has plenty of natural resources, good basic industries and world class research and weapon productions. China has lots of people and high tech manufacturing capabilities. Together China and Russia would be a major powerblock that could exist, if needed, mostly independent of the "western" ruled global political and economic system.

Russia expert Mark Adomanis thinks that such an alliance would be disaster for the west though he does not really explain why. It seems that the inability of the "west" to influence such a block is what he perceives as a "disaster".

The U.S. can not effect Russia through economic or financial sanctions when Russia can circumvent those through its ally China, the worlds biggest economy. And one can not threaten China's access to energy resources by sea when China can get more than enough of those through direct land pipelines from Russia. The U.S. capability to influence or threaten such an alliance would be much smaller than it is against two separate states.

But the U.S. has no one but Obama and his hawkish secretaries of state to blame for the rather natural Russian-Chinese alliance. Those two countries historically do not like each other very much and in social terms don't have much in common. But Obama has done his best to give them a common enemy. Such an enemy always tends to unite even non-friends. Pushing sanctions against Russia after the "west" arranged an anti-Russian coup against Russia's neighbor was too much for Russia to swallow. Add missile defense and a general hate throughout "western" media against Putin and the Russian system and you end up with a virtual enemy. On China's side Obama's "pivot" to Asia, encouraging of Japanese militancy and sanctions over alleged cyberspying were enough to push it to look for new relations.

I agree with Adomanis that the U.S. would loose power if a Russian-Chinese alliance evolves but I can not see any "disaster" in that. A less unchallenged position and smaller global role for the U.S. would likely be beneficial for and viewed positive by the "rest of the world." It would at least restrict some of the typical U.S. militancy.

Europe will not join the new alliance but it should keep a neutral stance between the U.S. and the Russian-China axis. It will otherwise become a U.S. pawn on a global chessboard and will be sacrificed, possibly in another big war, as soon as Washington finds that to be convenient.

Posted by b on May 20, 2014 at 01:04 PM | Permalink

Comments
Europe will not join the new alliance but it should keep a neutral stance between the U.S. and the Russian-China axis.

How can Europe be neutral between the US and Russia/China so long as Europe is part of US-controlled NATO?

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 1:13:12 PM | 1

good post b. thanks. europe has a problem and they need to sit down together and figure it out, without the usa's interference and meddling.. i don't know that they can, but that's there big problem at the moment.. creating the ukraine mess is something they can hopefully think thru with more foresight then they seem capable of...

Posted by: james | May 20, 2014 1:16:37 PM | 2

I need to spoil everybody's honeymoon again by reminding that no bourgeois politician is his or her own master or mistress. The politicians and the countries they purport to lead belong to the rich. And the rich do not belong to them, or to any country at all. Therefore, it is idle to expect that Europe ("Yurp" in Dubya's elegant terminology), or Russia or China, make any decisions - even the decision to survive - without permission from their owners. The rich, whoever they may be, own the countries, and the politicians in them, including the dearly beloved Putin. That is what capitalism means.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 20, 2014 1:30:10 PM | 3

@ 3: "The rich, whoever they may be, own the countries, and the politicians in them, including the dearly beloved Putin. That is what capitalism means."

Much as I agree with the above statement, I'm hoping that someone, or something, in the BRICKS alliance, will allow them to actually consider the welfare and best interests of their people/workers. Nice dream eh?

Posted by: ben | May 20, 2014 1:40:59 PM | 4

A Russia-China axis is a short-term strategy at best, lest Russia wants to become a resource colony of China, which it will at some point, perhaps rather later than sooner. The best deal for Russia is a Russia-Germany-Japan axis, with a friendly India and a neutral China, which at this point in time is light years away. That is one of the reasons why the Russians try to cosy up to the Middle Kingdom now, but it is a temporary arrangement and Russia must look to diversify geopolitically as soon as possibly.

Posted by: Grim Deadman | May 20, 2014 1:42:40 PM | 5

While the US are forming alliances with Jihardis and Fascists, the Russians are making allies with a neighboring country of 1.4 billion people whose economy is slated to be bigger than the US not far in the future, and thats not counting the other BRIC's. Also they will not be trading in dollars, as James say's @2 the Europeans have a problem [all their own making]. The moral of the story is, never underestimate the stupidity of the USA.

Posted by: harry law | May 20, 2014 1:44:14 PM | 6

Somedoby has to explain to me who had the brilliant idea of accusing China of cyberspying precisely when Putin and Xi are meeting.

Posted by: -yan | May 20, 2014 1:49:27 PM | 7

The reason Mr. Adomanis says that it will be a disaster for the West is that it would be the 'final nail in the coffin' for the dollar. There are almost as many dollars in the World as toilet paper,-- hereto, the disaster. This would ensue:

1)Hyper-Inflation for the United States,
2)Great loss of purchasing power,
3)Military cuts by a 1/3, and
4)Good-bye Hegemony,-- FOREVER!

So I say, that the United States will not go down without bringing the rest of the World down with it, --- it will contrive another World War. And this one will be the War to END ALL WARS.

An Unipolar World has:

1)been an ecological devastation for the planet,(as in global growth over the planet's capacity, as in the devastating pollution, as in the harmful spread of MGOs, etc..)
2)impoverished the 'Little Peoples' of the World (and, by the same toke, enriched and enlarged its oligarchies)
3)allowed for the greatest concentration of power that there ever been; meaning, it has placed World Tyranny under the potential grasp of a group of people [all the more of a camouflage, as the world has been used to seeing sole political figures attempt in the past (Napoleon, Hitler..; although the Romans would be an exception)]


However, I do not see any way that the world can have a "smooth exit" from this path. I see War, War, and more War till the end of time.

My apologies for appearing so negative. It is not my intention, but rather, what I cannot deny 'seeing' ahead of us.

Posted by: susette | May 20, 2014 1:49:33 PM | 8

I said more or less the same thing about 12 hrs ago, and I didn't feel the need to apologise. But then, I'm a left-wing thug.

:-)

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 20, 2014 1:54:47 PM | 9

I meant to say: "... military cuts which would engender the military to become 1/3 of the size of what it is currently.."

Posted by: susette | May 20, 2014 1:56:31 PM | 10

@Grim Deadman #5:

the best deal for Russia is a Russia-Germany-Japan axis

Japan-Russia pipeline plans crystallise post Fukushima

A Japanese company with government backing plans to take FID by next March on a $6 billion gas pipeline connecting Japan with Russia’s Sakhalin Island, the company’s president has told Interfax in an exclusive interview – a development that would have far-reaching implications for the global LNG market.

The 20 bcm/y project planned by Japan Pipeline Development & Operation (JPDO) will cost an estimated ¥600 billion ($5.87 billion) and would connect the Japanese island of Hokkaido with Sakhalin via an undersea pipeline.

There can't really be a Germany-Russia axis until Germany can figure out a way of getting out of NATO without the US nuking it.

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 1:57:17 PM | 11

@-yan #7:

who had the brilliant idea of accusing China of cyberspying precisely when Putin and Xi are meeting.

As the Forbes article b linked to notes:

In Washington circles, Russia and China are considered two totally different and mutually exclusive issues studied by different groups of people with different affiliations.

USG should contract out its empire management to the English.

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 2:02:35 PM | 12

@11

Indeed, and I don't see that happening anytime soon. The info in the article is familiar to me; moreover, I have a credible source who has it that the project of extending the Siberian pipeline to Japan is also being discussed, however Japan, very much like Germany, has its hands tied for the time being.

Posted by: Grim Deadman | May 20, 2014 2:07:14 PM | 13

Russia did not blink!

China and Russia Fail to Reach Agreement on Gas Plan

My guess is that what's happening here is that the price Russia negotiated with Japan (see #11) is about the same as what western Europe pays for Russian natural gas. Russia wants China to pay the same price as Japan, but China wants a discount. Thus the continuing impasse.

The Japanese pipeline is already in the works, so the Ukrainian crisis didn't really put that much pressure on Russia to finally strike a deal with China, despite what Western media were saying.

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 2:14:31 PM | 14

Without the construct that is America, these two totalitarian tyrannies would annihilate each other in no time. Be careful what you wish for — a collapse of America to marginal status or less will create a power vacuum of enormous magnitude. Like thunder and lightning, the forces that rush in to fill that vacuum will collide and it will pour blood. When it does, you'll hold both hands over your face, if you're still alive, and say "what was I thinking?" But it will be too late by then — far too late. In the meantime, it's Tea Time.

Polonium-210 Tea With The Tsar

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | May 20, 2014 2:28:15 PM | 15

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 2:14:31 PM | 14

There is no reason for Russia to panic.

EU and Russia negotiate on how Ukraine pays their gas bill - without Ukraine - in German

Short translation: Oettinger explains that the IMF and EU loans for Ukraine also have to be used to pay Ukraine's gas bills, the West pays Russia, therefore the West negotiates with Russia.

Duh. We will not freeze for NATO.

Posted by: somebody | May 20, 2014 2:37:41 PM | 16

Don't forget that China has 97% of the world's rare earths locked up and Japan has priority rights to Afghanistan's vast lithium deposits (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/20/japan-has-priority-on-rig_n_618545.html).

The use of Light, Medium, and Heavy Rare Earth Elements (REEs) such as neodymium (Nd), europium (Eu), terbium (Tb), dysprosium (Dy), and yttrium (Y) are absolutely critical for future sustainable energy sources. The US no longer has them; moreover, we've lost the ability to manufacture them. We have some of the ore, but knowledge of the four-stage process has been lost. There are a couple of companies claiming they can do it, but they cannot produce in the amounts needed to prevent the US from becoming an industrial backwater. If China does what it is planning on doing in 2015 by denying export of dysprosium, we will not be able to produce many of the high-tech devices that we are the world's largest consumers of.

China hooking up with Russia and Africa can put the brakes on and turn us into Argentina overnight. [Argentina in the 1930/40s was on target to become one of the great nations of the world.]

Posted by: MRW | May 20, 2014 2:55:32 PM | 17

@somebody #16:

From that article:

It's one of those days that lead to a blow before one's eyes, showing how a country loses control of itself. Ukraine is not only frayed at the edges, where Russia simply incorporated a peninsula. Six days before the presidential election, it is becoming increasingly clear that the government in Kiev is no longer the central point of contact in the issues where it comes to their own best interests. About: What do I do with my money - and what not?

Meanwhile, Yatseynuk is making a fool of himself by saying that he will take his delinquent bills to a court for arbitration (Russian link). Does he even know that the matter is being settled without him?

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 3:00:08 PM | 18

"But the U.S. has no one but Obama and his hawkish secretaries of state to blame for the rather natural Russian-Chinese alliance."

This grossly over simplifies and distorts what has been western policy for more than a century. It's not "Obama", or even the "USA" driving this hegemonic machine. The western oligarchs are supra-national, along with their "interests", and have been for more than a century.

Posted by: scalawag | May 20, 2014 3:06:00 PM | 19

Regarding Ukraine and exposing the western position you may find the articles on this site interesting, too:
http://100wordz.wordpress.com/?s=Ukraine

Posted by: KerKaraje | May 20, 2014 3:09:23 PM | 20

I hope the Russia/China/Japan gas deals pan out; especially if China burns less coal. But, the rich are the rich. In the USA, the Northern States restrictions on the spread of slavery lead to Bloody Kansas, a Civil War, and the dawn of industrial slaughter. The Davos Elite don’t look kindly to being frozen out of Eurasia; witness their grab for Ukraine. But, on the other side of the coin, the Han look north and see all that living space in Siberia.

If the American government started acting sane and in the best interests of its people, it would settle its differences with Russia and reassert its sovereignty and support for national borders.

Posted by: VietnamVet | May 20, 2014 3:28:10 PM | 21

What Drives The West's Self-Destructive Belligerence?

"Europe whole and free" and the "reconstruction and enlargement" of Europe. That is how the corporate-funded Atlantic Council - NATO's defacto public relations front and think tank - is describing the current agenda of the "transatlantic community" during their celebration of the "25th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, the 15th anniversary of NATO's first post-Cold War enlargement, and the 10th anniversary of the "big bang" enlargements of both the European Union and NATO."

Readers might notice that the EU and NATO's "big bang" enlargements occurred long after the Cold War ended - in other words, long after NATO's alleged reason for existing expired. Yet it not only continued to exist, it in fact expanded and continues to expand to this very day. Its presence in Ukraine and Georgia via proxy regimes installed through now admitted US-backed subversion is reminiscent to Nazi Germany's aggressive pre-war expansion. Russia then, as it does now, realized that with Nazi Germany nearing its borders, buffers against what was an existential threat were necessary."

Posted by: scalawag | May 20, 2014 4:13:27 PM | 22

@Demian #11:

There can't really be a Germany-Russia axis until Germany can figure out a way of getting out of NATO without the US nuking it.

I just learned that that the US can nuke Germany and/or Japan without getting UNSC authorization:

Article 53

The Security Council shall, where appropriate, utilize such regional arrangements or agencies for enforcement action under its authority. But no enforcement action shall be taken under regional arrangements or by regional agencies without the authorization of the Security Council, with the exception of measures against any enemy state, as defined in paragraph 2 of this Article, provided for pursuant to Article 107 or in regional arrangements directed against renewal of aggressive policy on the part of any such state, until such time as the Organization may, on request of the Governments concerned, be charged with the responsibility for preventing further aggression by such a state.

The term enemy state as used in paragraph 1 of this Article applies to any state which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory of the present Charter.

Article 107

Nothing in the present Charter shall invalidate or preclude action, in relation to any state which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory to the present Charter, taken or authorized as a result of that war by the Governments having responsibility for such action.

It's funny how, after almost three quarters of a century, the UN hasn't found time to take those bits out of its charter. And yet German politicians can never stop going on about the great "friendship" between the US and Germany. Merkel just this month:

Mit den Vereinigten Staaten verbindet uns eine über viele Jahrzehnte gewachsene Freundschaft und Partnerschaft. Deutschland kann sich keinen besseren Partner als die Vereinigten Staaten wünschen.
With the United States we share a friendship and partnership which have grown over many decades. Germany can not ask for a better partner than the United States.

"Raymond Shaw is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life."

Someone who reserves the right to nuke you is not your friend.

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 4:13:39 PM | 23

Posted by: MRW | May 20, 2014 2:55:32 PM | 17

Yes, the very few companies that did the in Amerika were sold to China during the beginning of g the lesser b. Look up round magnetics on the web. The company was moved out over the weekend without employees knowing and dod and tsd approved the deal without telling congress.

Posted by: jo6pac | May 20, 2014 4:23:59 PM | 24

I almost wonder if pushing China and Russia together isnt some kind of long term Neocon plot.

But thats giving them too much credit. Still, this almost seems too perfect.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 20, 2014 4:25:46 PM | 25

Chinese, Iranian, Russian alliance?

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/05/china-iran-russia-restructuring-201451964119463320.html

Posted by: Amar | May 20, 2014 4:37:38 PM | 26

Posted by: jo6pac | May 20, 2014 4:23:59 PM | 24

I didn't understand this: "Yes, the very few companies that did the in Amerika were sold to China during the beginning of g the lesser b." What's "the beginning of g the lesser b.?"

Posted by: MRW | May 20, 2014 4:50:49 PM | 27

@MRW #27:

George the lesser Bush, I reckon.

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 4:58:36 PM | 28

Not exactly a 'neocon' plot, but close. In order to appreciate the trap the world is in, you have to step back from the apparent binary opposition, and understand that the real plot is bigger and includes both sides of the binary. It has done for centuries. It’s a deeply laid plot. The idea of the next stage is to explode the Obama presidency, probably by assassinating Obama and allowing a brief Biden interregnum, in order to allow the ‘Traditionalists’, represented by Putin, to score an apparent victory over the ‘globalist parasites’ represented by the planet-hopping NATO/IMF combine. Traditional religious parties will come to power in the West. I think the Jews will engineer a Rand Paul presidency, rather than a Jeb Bush one. Hillary will be discredited as a globalist harpy, which of course she is. The world will, in its naivety, breathe an enormous sigh of relief.

What they do not know is that Lubavitch, a force based on a peculiar Jewish apocalyptic heresy which I shall not put you off by describing, is the power-broker behind Putin’s reining-in of the oligarchs. Russia will contract a very firm alliance with Israel, which will proceed on its merry path of Messianic apocalypticism, and before very long will take control of the Temple Mount and start organised Jewish prayers upon it. This obviously will provoke the entire Muslim world into a last-ditch global Jihad, itself adroitly managed from behind the scenes by the CIA and the Mossad. But the entire Muslim radical movement will have been discredited by the emergence of Putin as global hero and Russia as defender of all traditional human values. So the Muslims will be destroyed, and the Temple will be rebuilt. See how easy it all is.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 20, 2014 5:35:50 PM | 29

@Rowan Berkele #29:

Are you deliberately trying to sound stark, raving mad?

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 5:41:22 PM | 30

The pivot to Asia followed by the Ukraine crisis is what convinces me that the US does not have a coherent foreign policy. Those were two actions that would have the predictable outcome of pushing Russia and China together. It will also do something else.

We have not heard much about the Shanghai Cooperative Organization in recent years but it is still there on paper. This includes Russia, China and the Central Asian republics into some vague economic and common interest group. Iran is has observer status. Once the US fully withdraws from Afghanistan they are a natural member. If this does become a vibrant trade group it only stands to reason that Pakistan would like to join too. This could easily evolve into a military alliance.

In the past this kind of grouping would have been inconceivable given America's vast wealth and military power. However, with the recent series of defeats and fiascoes running from Iraq,Afghan, Libya, Syria to Ukraine America's soft power of persuasion has been greatly eroded. There is not much to stop the SCO from growing in numbers and influence in coming years if Russia and China gave it their full support.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 20, 2014 6:03:51 PM | 31

The new silk road between China and Russia was signed several weeks ago with trade estimated at 17 trillion dollars. Unlike the us state department china and russia do not amplify their chess moves but simply make significant and historical actions. Russia for sometime has been constructing financial clearing houses which are independent of the us petro dollar and its financial monopolies.

Posted by: Red | May 20, 2014 6:22:07 PM | 32

I got the impression it was a channeling of Nostradamus.

Posted by: juannie | May 20, 2014 6:24:48 PM | 33

@29

I really really doubt Obama will be assassinated. Hes too good a puppet for the PTB.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 20, 2014 7:06:33 PM | 34

@29

I have to agree with #30. Youre sounding delusional.

I might change my mind if Obama dies, but even then, youre sounding weirder than usual.

Posted by: Massinissa | May 20, 2014 7:08:46 PM | 35

#30, 34, 35, Oh! and 29 also:

That's what my # 33 was referencing. I thought it would follow 30 but got separated. Next time I'll make my reference clear.

Posted by: juannie | May 20, 2014 8:43:07 PM | 36

I'm not sure an alliance between Russia and China is possible, and the fact that both countries haven't reach an agreement seems to corroborate my thoughts. China has more to gain being a bystander while Russia and the USA are at each other's throat. If Russia is forced to intervene in the Ukraine and a limited or full fledge war follows, be sure China will stay neutral. Because once it's over, they'll rule the global game. China knows the time is on it's side.

Posted by: Gregg | May 20, 2014 9:17:45 PM | 37

"seems to corroborate my thoughts"

Posted by: scalawag | May 20, 2014 9:40:24 PM | 38

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 4:13:39 PM | 23

Sounds like Germans have to ask Russia or/and China to protect them :-)) As a matter of fact it has been proven that the security council is no protection if NATO or the US want to bomb you.

So why bother.

As a matter of fact, all those US bases around countries like Iran and Russia are protection against war with the US, as they are easy targets for whoever they intend to threaten. At the same time an attack on them would lead to escalation in front of their homes. Strategy is not easy in today's world which makes it quite safe from any "big" wars - the outcome is simply not calculable. And the weapons of those "big" wars will not be bombs - you can completely prevent a country from functioning today (and cause huge accidents) by cyber war. And it is not the US that is winning this war. But of course - mutual self destruction is always possible.

What we see in Syria and now Ukraine is the modern type of warfare - small wars for minute gains played on people's perception in dysfunctional countries. Intended to damage the competition, prevent free flow of trade, with no gain for the agressor. It is stupid strategy, with huge blow back, as in the end everybody will unite against the agressor. You can just observe, that neither the United States, nor the United States and Europe, can isolate anybody. Nor can they control the perceptions in their own country.

Something else "the West" is not winning and cannot win by sheer manpower is the race on knowledge and inventions. You have new technology/change cycles today of two years and less. A huge competition is on involving the efficiency and creativity of societies.

Posted by: somebody | May 20, 2014 9:46:00 PM | 39

I'm just a little pissed that nobody can be bothered to read my last two comments on the last legitimately Ukraine thread, the last one with Ukraine in its title. If you post your comments on the correct thread, nobody bothers to go back and read them. So I thought I would explode the Jedi Mind Bomb on this thread, to make people wonder what the hell I said on the Ukraine thread, which they otherwise couldn't be bothered to go back to.

That doesn't mean I'm not serious about what I say above. It just means that your puny earthling minds are not prepared to grasp it, because you haven't voyaged into the formless abysses between the stars the way I have. All those acid trips, all that salvia, you know? I didn't do that stuff just so I could listen to old Grateful Dead albums more closely.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 20, 2014 9:53:21 PM | 40

And now the future "king" of fucking shithole England has joined Killary, future queen of the fucking shithole US - in ALSO calling Putin "Hitler". Totally off-the-cuff - nudge, wink - while he was taking a stroll with a Jewish woman whose family had fled from the terrible terrible Nazis. There's so much retarded about the whole scripted scenario I really can't bear to write another word.

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 20, 2014 9:54:39 PM | 41

Adding:

And all that against the backdrop of rabid American fucking Zionist scum running bus ads in Washington D.C. linking - gee, what luck! - self-said Hitler with those crazy Muslims!!!

But wait a second, wasn't it really the Zionists THEMSELVES that were partnered up with Hitler and Mussolini?

Oh well.

Posted by: JSorrentine | May 20, 2014 10:05:28 PM | 42

This here is Ewgeni Kaspersky on cyber attacks on critical infrastructure and on infrastructure "not safe by design".

Posted by: somebody | May 20, 2014 10:09:51 PM | 43

What has happened to Europe!? It really demands some serious analysis. Just 10 years ago, the two major continental powers stood up to US power and, rightly, refused to back the Iraq adventure. Italy was indicting CIA agents. There was a sense that Europe was an independent power that would one day rival the US.

And now what do we see? France is, in many ways, more of a poodle to the USA than the UK is. Germany is going along, at the prodding of the US, not just with some far off war in the Middle East, but with war and violence in nearby in Ukraine - while it is openly being spied on. All have joined onto a spurious colonial war in Libya and a brutal remake of the Iraq debacle in Syria (this time with Turkey, who wouldn't even let US troops pass through on their way to Iraq, now threatening to provide the ""boots on the ground" in Syria). France, once a loud voice against the wisdom of using purely military means to fight terror, is galavanting all over Africa like it is 1887.

It's practically a 180 turn. I think you have to look at the economic crisis, the "change of the guard" to a younger generation, the influence of European Israeli lobbies, and the "Obama Effect". But I'd like to hear others' thoughts.

....

I hear the idea that China has designs on Siberia for some sort of lebensraum often enough, and it certainly sounds sensible, but I wonder how true it is. They seem content where they are, have kept the population under control and had millennia to expand but chose not to - even building the world's most famous border wall. Though it is true, they used to have border disputes, these are apparently cleared up. Plus, it's cold as hell.

...

We cannot forget the prospects for this new Silk Road. I am convinced that if anything can pull Germany towards a more sensible - an indeed independent - it is this. And Russia will obviously be a major player, not just because of geography, but because of its technical prowess and long history building rail links in the region. Germany cannot ignore China as a destination for its products, and a rail line at least partially through Russia would be the fastest and cheapest way of getting goods to and from there.

...

@Demian, 23: Very interesting! Thank you. The UN has a definite design for very definite reasons that are well applicable today, I have no doubt. The actions of Germany are of great concern of the US, no doubt about it.
...

As for Rowan, what a long, strange trip its' been, eh? ;)

Posted by: guest77 | May 20, 2014 10:18:10 PM | 44

Rowan Berkley want us to know That doesn't mean I'm not serious about what I say above. It just means that your puny earthling minds are not prepared to grasp it, because you haven't voyaged into the formless abysses between the stars the way I have. All those acid trips, all that salvia, you know? I didn't do that stuff just so I could listen to old Grateful Dead albums more closely.

Hey man, I too was there. Unfortunately once I sobered up I began to realize there was not there there. I have been very skeptical about your theories. Somehow you seemed to talking about a puppet master in the sky that controlled us earthlings. Today you have identified that puppet master. And it is?? get this folks the Lubavitch Chaba!! I lived in a community in New England where they had a significant presence I did get to know them. But they were not bad neighbors but they were not interested in interacting with my family, but then again I was not interested in interacting with them. Talk about perfect neighbors!

But to think that they are the masters of the universe that are pulling the strings over the entire planet is such a hoot. The people I knew and dealt with were very poor by any American standards.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 20, 2014 10:20:40 PM | 45

Posted by: MRW | May 20, 2014 4:50:49 PM | 27

Yes it is george w. bush the lesser and the buyer was neo-con fron gwb sr. wh and served under big dog also. Amazing tech even today.

Posted by: jo6pac | May 20, 2014 10:30:18 PM | 46

@somebody #39:

Nice analysis.

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 10:34:28 PM | 47

China Signs Non-Dollar Settlement Deal With Russia's Largest Bank

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-20/china-signs-non-dollar-settlement-deal-russias-largest-bank

Posted by: crone | May 20, 2014 10:42:57 PM | 48

OT, but I have another book suggestion - Ralph W. McGehee's Deadly Deceits. It's a quick read, and the conclusion is especially power as an examination of how Black Propaganda (straight out lies and false flag terror) feed upon themselves until they become national policy.

There are some points where he missteps - claiming the "Soviets killed 30,000" Hungarians during the '56 uprising. He's only off by a factor of 10 but then I do believe these were the common beliefs at the time. Just a little surprising he couldn't apply his really great, valid insights about propaganda to, you know... that.

But anyway, it is a great CIA expose, a quick read that helps to understand what's going on behind the scenes during the Cold War with lots of lessons to apply to today in places like Ukraine.

@scalawag - though I didn't initially find it there (I came to Stockwell et al. through Alternative Views TV), I do have to thank you for mentioning that "Third World Traveller" site, they have some really great stuff. So... thank you!

...

I've also just started a book called "The Phoenix Program" by Douglas Valentine. It is, so far, a really brutal account of just that one aspect of the war. The kind of things so outlandishly unscrupulous and mean that one is simply left dumbfounded. US Special Forces admitting they would snatch up innocent farmers just so they could have two extra people to throw out of an airplane or helicopter in front of a VC they were interrogating: "we pretty much wrote the book on terror" he said. Something called Program 24 where VC defectors were fed, trained over weeks, bought into the forces of the Saigon government and then sent to infiltrate Communist villages. They were fitted with electronic locators and once they arrived in their village the whole place was simply obliterated with B-52s - village, villagers, newly-trained informant and all.

Worth reading but an extremely detailed study. Not for everyone (I find it hard going, a lot of abbreviations and acronyms to keep straight) but really makes it clear the brutality.

Posted by: guest77 | May 20, 2014 10:46:40 PM | 49

"lose", not "loose"

Posted by: Tinky | May 20, 2014 10:57:01 PM | 50

@crone #48:

China excludes Windows 8 from government computers

@guest77 #49:

Thanks for the book recommendations.

Posted by: Demian | May 20, 2014 10:57:17 PM | 51

Toivos, I know the Lubavitchers intimately. I lived for some years in Stamford Hill, north London, the largest low-budget ultra-orthodox community in England. Community power there is overwhelmingly Lubavitcher, though there is an underdog presence of Satmar (Neturei Karta). I took advantage of this situation to launch one of my several protracted bids to convert to Judaism. I've tried this several times, each time at great length and focusing on a different brand or flavour of Judaism. And I've worked my way right across the Jewish spectrum, from Right to Left. This is the only way to do close research on the phenomenon, in my opinion. An anthropologist would call it 'participant observation'.

The Lubavitchers are really repellent people. Let me remind you that Shmuley Boteach, "America's rabbi" as he calls himself, is a Lubavitcher. Obviously, they aren't all rolling in money like he is. The entire organisation is methodically budgeted, in a very parsimonious way. But it has a global presence, and I mean global. They have missions everywhere, up to the Tibetan border, down to the jungles of Patagonia, they have a mission, usually just one 'emissary' and his family. They don't mind being shot or blown up, either, as happened in Mumbai. They just keep going, obedient perinde ac cadaver, like the Jesuits.

Obviously they don't finance themselves. Nothing of any political importance finances itself, and if it appears to do so, this is just a psychological device to intensify the commitment of its public, like Hitler's Winterhilfe, the old clothes drive for our boys at the front, the clothes being thrown away when collected. Obviously, they are financed from on high, from the upper reaches of the global Jewish bourgeoisie. Jewish history is full of things that are financed from above. They don't just happen. The entire Zionist movement, from its inception in the 19th century to the present day, has been financed from above. With great care, believe me.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 20, 2014 11:02:00 PM | 52

As long as I'm posting recommendations: Kurt Vonnegut & Joseph Heller War Experience: Battle of the Bulge, Bombing Raids, VE Day [video]

Posted by: guest77 | May 20, 2014 11:13:04 PM | 53

Whatever you might say about Rowan's conclusions, no one can accuse him of having to come to them lightly.

Posted by: guest77 | May 20, 2014 11:20:22 PM | 54

guest77 | May 20, 2014 11:13:04 PM | 53

Well thank-you guest 77 that interview with Heller and Vonnegut was interesting. It did change my impression of Heller, but my impression of Vonnegut's view of war did not change. Before I considered them both with antiwar views.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 21, 2014 1:33:46 AM | 55

Germanys industrialist masters are very much on board with the new silk road even though Frau Merkel has to placate the folk at atlantis endlessly as well as watching her own political fat arse China and Russia have launched a economic thermo nuclear that has been in the making for sometime and its not surprising that western economic media are not reporting the their new trillion dollar trade agreement which links south east asia to EUROPE with a non USD trading currency. Does any body in their right mind think Putin and Lavrov would sacrifice all of this for Ukraine - that aint going to happen folks. The scary thing is what president Ahab will do and we know he wont abandon ship.

Posted by: Red | May 21, 2014 2:33:11 AM | 56

Methinks Russia's suspension of the gas deal with China was traded for this:

Kiev Pulling troops back from East Ukraine with Rada vote

Posted by: ProPeace | May 21, 2014 2:34:43 AM | 57

Propeace

What suspension are you talking about?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2014 2:48:38 AM | 58

Before I go and eat my crumpet and have a lovely cup of strong hot tea there is a certain irony in the fact that Atlantis and Britain and their proxies invested so much in Adolf's reich with the expectation that he would turn east against socialism but alas he turned against them - the hands that fed him. This time we can only hope Germany turns east.

Posted by: Red | May 21, 2014 3:01:39 AM | 59

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2014 2:48:38 AM | 58

This:

Russia says don't jump to conclusions on China gas deal

May 21 (Reuters) - Russia's Gazprom told doubters on Wednesday not to jump to any conclusions over President Vladimir Putin's failure so far to sign a long-awaited gas deal with China, saying all would become clear in due course.

Responding to speculation the two sides might not reach a deal after they failed to sign the $400 billion gas supply agreement on the first day of Putin's two-day visit to China on Tuesday, spokesman Sergei Kupriyanov said on: "You will know everything in due course. Don't jump to any conclusions." ...

Posted by: fairleft | May 21, 2014 3:22:30 AM | 60

That was traded with the gas price for Ukraine.

"Fortschritte, noch keine Einigung"

Immerhin deutet sich eine Annäherung an. "Wir haben in den vergangenen Tagen eine Reihe von Fortschritten erreicht, aber noch keine Einigung", sagte Oettinger in Berlin. Einig sei man sich über den angemessenen Preis für Lieferungen von November bis März, offen sei er für April, Mai und die Zukunft. Auch Energieminister Nowak baute Kiew eine kleine Brücke. Nach Zahlung der Altschulden bis März (immerhin 2,2 Milliarden Dollar) könne man "auch über Rabatte" reden.

Brief translation - talks between EU Oettinger and Russian Minister Nowak - Price from November to March is agreed, still to be agreed is April, May and the future.

Russia seems to have agreed on a sale of S400 to China - Spengler: The Winner in Ukraine is China

And a survey by the German Foreign Ministry

60 percent wish for reticence in German Foreign Policy, 61 percent opt for close relations with China, 56 percent with the United States, 53 percent with Russia. 33 percent wish less cooperation with Washington.

The survey in detail.

Posted by: somebody | May 21, 2014 3:33:13 AM | 61

Posted by: guest77 | May 20, 2014 10:18:10 PM | 44

guest I too have given that some thought - WTF happened to Europe? I think Ellen Brown got a lot of it right:
http://ellenbrown.com/2012/07/01/government-by-the-banks-for-the-banks-the-esm-coup-detat-in-europe/
I couldn't find her "Banker's coup in Europe" article but this link above lays it out pretty well.

I recall how 15 years ago, US bankers/financial types were going to Davos and selling neoliberalism to European bankers and govts. And the sales pitches took. Plus, the EU was designed from top to bottom to destroy democracy in Europe. After the financial crisis it became apparent that there were only two institutions in Europe that had power, the ECB and EC. The EU Parliament was and is powerless.

Schroeder's and Chirac's resistance to W's Iraq war was the last glimpse we had of any independence in Europe. Since then neoliberals have been elected to head every govt in Europe. Hollande is hated here in France, but not because he's neoliberal-lite, but because he's wishy-washy, can't articulate what he stands for, and has betrayed the working class. Basically he's not a good politician.

Your idea "...China has designs on Siberia..." interests me - I had a correspondence with someone from Siberia a few years ago who told me that eastern Siberia was full of Chinese running businesses, had their own schools, groceries, etc. She thought the Chinese were just doing a soft occupation, moving in quietly and taking over the commerce. I haven't talked to her lately, but I doubt the 'soft occupation' has ceased. She said that Russia govt had encouraged the Chinese moving in.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 21, 2014 3:36:28 AM | 62

@fairleft #60:

From the piece you quote:

He said the price would be on a par with the average sum paid by European consumers, otherwise the deal would be delayed.

My take on this is that since Japan has already agreed to buy Russian natural gas at the price paid by Europe, for Russia to sell gas to China at a lower price—which is what China wants—would entail Russia giving preferential treatment to China. Obviously, Russia does not want to take sides between China and Japan unless that is completely unavoidable.

So I think the present difficulty in making a deal has more to do with Russia wishing to treat China and Japan as equal partners than with Russia haggling with China about price at the last moment.

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 3:52:34 AM | 63

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 3:52:34 AM | 63

If they follow up on this Rubel/Renminbi banking mechanism they have to find a new way to agree on exchange rates anyway. If it is supposed to mean more than just exchange directly at Dollar conversion rates. That would include the "pricing" of gas.

Both currencies are presumably undervalued for different reasons - China to boost exports, Russia to protect own production from cheap imports.

So if Russia strategically sells gas to China by long term contract, presumably they would fix strategically by contract what they buy from China, possibly manpower and infrastructure project like this here. Probably this project is still on - not bypassing Russia

The Chinese are interested in a former Soviet health resort that used to be the most popular tourist destination during the times of the USSR. Chinese investors will come to the Crimea with a plan to build a deep-water port in the Black Sea for redistribution of the cargo coming from the East to Europe. Thus, the "Crimea" port will become a major hub on the route of the new Silk Road, bypassing Russia.

Considering the geographical location of the Crimea that lies on the path of the Eurasian flow (goods coming from the east, and in particular, from the booming China), one can imagine the importance of the autonomous republic in world trade. The potential of this trade route is confirmed by the global statistics numbers provided by a Ukrainian news agency citing the head of the project Alexey Mazyuk. According to the data, in 2011 the volume of traffic of goods going into the European market was $1.1 trillion dollars, but it is not the limit. Volumes of goods from the east will grow continuously, and the average increase is estimated at 10 percent per year.

Thus, the Crimea will likely see capital inflows and host a huge hub on cargo redistribution. Perhaps, it will be able to solve the problems inherent in most of the coastal towns and villages of the former Soviet territory, namely, shortage of jobs, poverty, fiscal deficits, and so on. Considering that over 27 percent of the Crimea population lives below the poverty line, the major port looks like a goldmine.

Posted by: somebody | May 21, 2014 4:13:14 AM | 64

#31
They are precisely meeting this month in China.

Posted by: -yan | May 21, 2014 5:34:58 AM | 65

Gas deal is now a reality.
http://rt.com/business/160068-china-russia-gas-deal/

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2014 5:43:03 AM | 66

The penny drops. ;)

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 5:44:53 AM | 67

Even worse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GFRcFm-aY

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 6:12:56 AM | 68

So, looking at those numbers.....
EU buys about 160 billion cubic m per year from Russia
China will buy a little less than 1/3 ie 38 billion.
China's TOTAL in 2013 was about 170 billion.

OK.

So..... where does China get the other 130 billion from?

Does it have its own gas fields, and this Russian stuff is just icing on the cake?

Or is there some other gas exporter who is feeling mighty pissed right about now?

Posted by: Johnboy | May 21, 2014 6:14:52 AM | 69

Sorry, I meant "a little less than 1/4".

Posted by: Johnboy | May 21, 2014 6:16:16 AM | 70

@okie Thanks for the article very interesting.

As for "China's designs on Siberia" I was actually trying to debunk it a bit, but your info is interesting. I have no doubt Russia would appreciate having overseas (or, overland?) Chinese to develop the area. I don't see that there would be much chance that the Chinese would attempt to separate, and Russia has always comfortably been a multi-ethnic state (much to the chagrin of louts like the USA and their puppets like Navalny).

Posted by: guest77 | May 21, 2014 11:55:37 PM | 71

Russia is still the world's largest oil producer. And Russia, Iran, Iraq and Venezuela produce 25% of the world's oil. I think that if the four countries worked together, they could circumvent Saudia Arabia and OPEC and possibly raise oil prices to the $120 to $140 range.

Posted by: Jim Hannan | May 22, 2014 12:25:11 AM | 72

Chinese-Russian Gas Deal Upends World Order

The Fiscal Times
May 22, 2014

In an abrupt and unexpected about face, Russia and China inked a $400 billion gas deal that marks Moscow’s biggest pivot east. The deal signals the emergence of a new Sino-Russian partnership that took over 10 years to see through to completion.
....
Yesterday, many experts and journalists (including me) speculated that the failure to secure a gas deal would chasten Russia. Today, China and Russia have turned international affairs on its head.

Once again, it appears as if Russian President Vladimir Putin is one step ahead of us all.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2014/05/22/Chinese-Russian-Gas-Deal-Upends-World-Order

Posted by: virgile | May 23, 2014 11:23:52 PM | 73

Jim Hannan | May 22, 2014 12:25:11 AM | 72

One of the main by-products of the Fake War On Terror is high oil prices via the removal of Iraq, Libya and Iran's light crude from the Global 'free' market through the mechanisms of (cowardly, fake) War & sanctions. The upside for Amerika's Oligarchs is world prices high enough to make non-viable tar-sand/shale oil economically viable. The downside is that a high oil price makes all of Amerika's enemies (almost every oil-producing country on the planet) wealthier too - Russia being the most laughable example of Greedy Yankees outsmarting themselves.

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Posted by: Hwa Jurong | Jun 11, 2014 9:04:53 AM | 75

One of the main by-products of the Fake War On Terror is high oil prices via the removal of Iraq, Libya and Iran's light crude from the Global 'free' market through the mechanisms of (cowardly, fake) War & sanctions. The upside for Amerika's Oligarchs is world prices high enough to make non-viable tar-sand/shale oil economically viable. The downside is that a high oil price makes all of Amerika's enemies (almost every oil-producing country on the planet) wealthier too - Russia being the most laughable example of Greedy Yankees outsmarting themselves.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | May 24, 2014 1:45:52 PM | 74

Why is this considered to be a "by product", as you put it?

What evidence do you have that this alleged "unintended consequence"/"by-product" is anything of the sort?

What if you have completely misread the situation,?

What if it is THE INTENDED CONSEQNENCE (or one of them anyway)?

As that little fat f*cker, Rove, is alleged to have said :

"The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ...

"That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.""

Posted by: OMFG | Jun 11, 2014 9:16:51 AM | 76

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