Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 21, 2014

Russia's "Isolation"

Wishful thinking:

Kerry warns of Russia 'isolation'

America and its allies are ready to step up measures to "isolate Russia politically, diplomatically and economically" unless Moscow orders its troops in Crimea back to their barracks, US Secretary of State John Kerry has warned.

Obama tries to rally world to isolate Russia

President Barack Obama gathered with world leaders in a day of delicate diplomacy, as he sought to rally the international community Monday around efforts to isolate Russia following its incursion into Ukraine.

Obama will meet Xi Jinping of China in attempt to isolate Russia over Ukraine

The White House has added meetings with the leaders of China and Japan to Barack Obama's visit to Europe and Saudi Arabia next week, as it seeks to use the six-day trip to build an international coalition and isolate Russia over its annexation of Crimea.

Reality:

Russia’s VTB and Bank of China agree on domestic currency settlements

VTB, Russia’s second biggest lender, has signed a deal with Bank of China, which includes an agreement to pay each other in domestic currencies.

“Under the agreement, the banks plan to develop their partnership in a number of areas, including cooperation on ruble and renminbi settlements, investment banking, inter-bank lending, trade finance and capital-markets transactions,” says the official VTB statement.

Russia, Europe eye broader space cooperation - space corporation chief

Europe is an interesting partner for Russia’s United Rocket and Space Corporation (ORKK), its Director General Igor Komarov told a news conference at the International Aerospace Exhibition ILA 2014 in Berlin on Tuesday.

“Intensive work is underway in the sphere of Russia and Europe’s space cooperation,” he said, noting that a number of promising agreements had already been or would be signed at the exhibition and many contracts were under negotiation.

With Ukraine, Russia Drives Wedge Between EU, US

The crisis in Ukraine is giving Russia an opening to drive a wedge between the United States and Europe just as Western powers try to repair a struggling trade deal and decide how to bolster a cash-strapped NATO.
...
Germany and France have shunned sectorial sanctions without first trying again to broker a dialogue between Ukraine's government and pro-Russian separatists in the country's east — a step that garnered only lukewarm U.S. support.

Russia and China seal historic multibillion gas deal

Under the long-term deal, Gazprom will begin providing China's growing economy with 38 billion cubic meters of natural gas per year for the next 30 years, beginning in 2018. The details of the deal were discussed for more than 10 years, with Moscow and Beijing negotiating over gas prices and the pipeline route, as well as possible Chinese stakes in Russian projects.

Russia-India oil, gas pipelines in the works?

India's Oil and Natural Gas Corporation (ONGC) plans to invite Russia to build an oil pipeline through Afghanistan and Pakistan to India. In addition, the country’s largest gas company, GAIL, has proposed that Russia's future gas pipeline to China be extended to India.

China, Iran and Russia: Restructuring the global order

At the Fourth Summit of the Conference on Interaction and Confidence-Building Measures in Asia (CICA) that opens May 20 in Shanghai, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani will meet with both Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin. Among other things, the summit will underscore how rising non-Western powers are playing ever more prominent roles on the global stage. However, Western elites remain stuck in a time warp, wherein the United States and its European partners are the imperial masters of all they survey.

Posted by b on May 21, 2014 at 06:20 AM | Permalink

Comments
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The US is going to become a laughingstock.

Posted by: MRW | May 21, 2014 6:38:52 AM | 1

Note that even Voice of America has published a piece about the victims of the Trades Union House having been poisoned!

Deputy Interior Minister Vitaliy Sakal, the ministry's chief investigator, said Monday that an investigative team had discovered chloroform in the burnt-out building. Citing experts, Sakal said inhaling chloroform vapor obstructs breathing and that this was "what happened in our case." He said 32 victims died of suffocation and heart failure due to an "unidentified substance," not from the high temperature caused by the fire. He said the chloroform had been in the union building for several days. 'Ukraine Official: 32 Victims of Odessa Violence Possibly Poisoned'


Posted by: William Bowles | May 21, 2014 6:41:53 AM | 2

You can also add this, to your list b.

Bahrain deal with Russia upsets US

and this

Gazprom deal boosts Egypt-Russia ties

Posted by: somebody | May 21, 2014 6:55:10 AM | 3

Exactly. The rhetoric doesn't match the actions. It's what I've been saying all along. There is no resistance except in word, and empty rhetoric isn't a resistance. There's what they want you to see bolstered by the rhetoric and amplified by a complicit press serving as a smokescreen for the real game being played. Why do you think so many in the investment community in The West are so quick to criticize America and tout Russia? They're self-serving, so for them to do that, there's a net positive return in it for them. Perhaps it signals a shift — a pivot. Even though America significantly deregulated with the The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 and all regulatory bodies have been increasingly hollowed out, it's still not at the level of corruption and control the Oligarchs can exercise in the East. So perhaps it's time to shed the Western skin and put on the Eastern skin. The only thing is, though, what about the pesky nukes? You can't collapse the U.S. without a plan for the nukes — or can you? They did it with the former Soviet Union. The nukes are a rain check waiting for that rainy day we hope never comes. They're the answer to over-population, if over-population is even a problem. Some people, and they're no longer a few, believe over-population is a problem and drastic measures are called for — like increasing Russia's birth rate over its death rate thus increasing population in Russia. That's good for over-population if you think over-population's a bad thing and if you think over-population's a good thing. Isn't this weird how that works — but that's the logic if you read between the lines of the propaganda being circulated from all corners.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | May 21, 2014 8:49:37 AM | 4

Poor Kerry. As his disastrous achievements are becoming increasingly obvious, he is left with bellicose rhetoric and empty predictions.

How many more ridiculous declarations needs he to make to become totally irrelevant and join the garage of ex-presidential candidates who were giving the opportunity to show that they deserved not to have been elected.

Posted by: Virgile | May 21, 2014 8:50:13 AM | 5

I can't understand what Trollfield is drivelling on about. On Saker, he has managed to find room in a comment for the old polonium cocktail, not really too relevant to anything unless Russia bashing with disinfo memes is all you're good for. We could save a few minutes by disposing of Trollfield, not with a polonium cocktail of course, but with a simple troll button.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 21, 2014 9:07:16 AM | 6

Russia play this very good, they wont be provoked by the west.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2014 9:21:31 AM | 7

I wouldn't write off the USA too fast. The sands are certainly shifting fadter since the stand-down on Syria, and it's clear that the intellectual non-entities at State and in the White House are still in denial that the stuff they cribbed from lectures in history and politics at Yale and Harvard is not and never was true. This is a big load to unburden. But there are still bright committed people out there who understand what's happening. There will eventually be a change of guard. Impossible to know at this point in time where it will come from or when, but it's hard to imagine things going the same for another half dozen years.

The utter blindness of the Administration is nevertheless astounding. They are in a time warp beyond all time warps. Party like it's 1947!

Posted by: Knut | May 21, 2014 9:44:00 AM | 8

Knut

You are right, US wont stop, thats whats so dangerous about them. Theyre desperate.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2014 9:48:50 AM | 9

This from aljazeera essay:

Their winner-take-all worldview, which has already resulted in widespread inequality and relative economic decline in the US, has also, since 2001, conditioned a series of "moments" whereby Washington's arrogant zero-sum mentality has produced one strategic failure after another.

The US government is caught in a web of self-deception if it believes that its declining global influence has gone unnoticed among the world's rising powers. Obama's pivot to Asia is viewed with scepticism, as the US already has more than it can handle in Ukraine, west Asia and North Africa. The real Asia pivot is driven by rapidly rising economies, especially China, as countries with major oil and gas reserves such as Russia, Iran and Iraq are already turning eastward.

Ironically, instead of attempting to build new bridges and forging new partnerships to stall their declining global status as the balance of power shifts away from Europe and North America, Western governments unwisely antagonise key powers. Spying on the Brazilian president does not help, denying a visa to the next Indian prime minister can spell trouble ahead, giving strong warnings to China can raise tensions - but threatening Russia with economic warfare may prove to be a game changer.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 21, 2014 10:08:59 AM | 10

I have a question. Reading different European newssites, one arguement against this deal is, that Russia got a lousy prize for the gaz from China and will not earn much with it. Is that true or just sour grapes?

Posted by: Fran | May 21, 2014 10:14:53 AM | 11

Fran, we don't know the price yet. But several articles I read in Eastern Asia press indicated Russia was insisting China pay the same price as Japan. More or less market rate. I would be surprised if that was the final deal. Why? China certainly needs the gas, but Russia needs to sell it more.

Someone asked where China gets the other 130k, answer is mostly Iran, KSA, Qatar.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 21, 2014 10:23:08 AM | 12

Ironically, instead of attempting to build new bridges and forging new partnerships to stall their declining global status as the balance of power shifts away from Europe and North America, Western governments unwisely antagonise key powers. Spying on the Brazilian president does not help, denying a visa to the next Indian prime minister can spell trouble ahead, giving strong warnings to China can raise tensions - but threatening Russia with economic warfare may prove to be a game changer.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 21, 2014 10:08:59 AM | 10

Wow, if only America and The West had taken your advice of appeasement 70-80 years prior, we wouldn't be having this discussion because this wouldn't be an issue. We'd all be mandatorily sharing kitchens, bathrooms, bedrooms — and partners. Maybe we will, eventually, but to think, if The West had known then what you know now, you wouldn't be calling yourself "okie farmer." At best, you'd be a labor unit on a collectivized farm. I laugh at the thought. Hopefully you and yours get your wish. I won't feel sorry for you. You begged for it.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | May 21, 2014 10:34:03 AM | 13

One dutch military analyst said that Russia is trying to increase the divide between the EU & the US because their interests are different. And I agree, it increases the rift between the EU & the US. Precisely BECAUSE the interests of the EU & the US ARE different !!!!

Posted by: Willy2 | May 21, 2014 10:40:14 AM | 14

absolutely off-topic, but a document has emerged detailing the notorious "GITMO suicides" from 2006 and -- oops, they're professionals -- apparently the redaction didn't work so well and aside from the torture and likely "dry boarding" (involving shoving cloth rags down the subject's throat), it now turns out that one of the three was still alive when "discovered" and transported to the medical clinic a process during which NO resuscitation efforts were made. Scott Horton of Harper's was on Democracy Now this morning. He got an award on his original reporting on this story. These new revelations -- amazingly -- make this awful story even more awful. Video and full transcript not up yet. These men were apparently murdered, the question must be "why?" http://www.democracynow.org/2014/5/21/the_guantanamo_suicides_revisited_did_cia

Posted by: Susan Sunflower | May 21, 2014 10:41:07 AM | 15

Hey, Trollfield, Russia is no longer Communist, so what sense does it make to apply Cold War thinking to it? They are now more Christian than we are.

And to suggest our solution should be to use our nukes exposes how bankrupt your thinking is. Would avoiding defeat be worth destroying human life on earth? Even during the Cold War, it was only crazy militarists who actually suggested nuking the Soviet Union. Sane presidents like Ike and JFK prevented such plans. I sure hope your thinking is not present in the current administration. Nukes are good for one and only one thing: deterring a nuclear attack on you. To use them for anything else is insane.

Posted by: lysias | May 21, 2014 10:43:55 AM | 16

Okie (12), surely there will be an adjustment downwards in the price of Russian gas.
As you said, China needs the gas, but Russia needs more still sells it.
Moreover, the agreement is worth from 2018 and then there's oil (and maybe gas) from Brazilian pre-salt which will already be running. And China is a partner of Brazil in some of them.
I think that Russia should rather lower the price.

Posted by: Scan | May 21, 2014 10:45:05 AM | 17

As Russia Dumps A Record Amount Of US Treasurys, Here Is What It Is Buying

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-21/russia-dumps-record-amount-us-treasurys-here-what-it-buying

Posted by: crone | May 21, 2014 10:45:11 AM | 18

okie farmer @12 thanks - so many comments seem to be sour grapes - turning the not knowing of the actual deal in to a sign that it is is a lousy deal for Russia.

Posted by: Fran | May 21, 2014 11:04:13 AM | 19

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | May 21, 2014 10:34:03 AM | 13

The circumstances were completely different 70-80 years ago, What a profoundly ignorant comment.

Posted by: MRW | May 21, 2014 11:07:51 AM | 20

As Russia Dumps A Record Amount Of US Treasurys, Here Is What It Is Buying

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-21/russia-dumps-record-amount-us-treasurys-here-what-it-buying

Posted by: crone | May 21, 2014 10:45:11 AM | 18


Big deal. it's not what you think it is. Zero Hedge is alarmist.

Posted by: MRW | May 21, 2014 11:12:43 AM | 21

Posted by: okie farmer | May 21, 2014 10:23:08 AM | 12

China has own gas resources and they get gas from Turkmenistan. I doubt Russia is hard pressed, especially if the deal involves yuan/ruble conversion. Russian debt to GDP is real low compared to Western countries - a mere 15 percent, and their inflation rate is 7.3 percent which is high but not intolerable.
It is more about the "new Silk road" where it has become clear that the US is no longer in a position to spoil much.

But of course China and India, both have close to four times the population of the USA, twice the population of Europe, the USA have more than twice the population of Russia. Even if Europe, Russia and the USA teamed up, they would be hardly be a match.

Posted by: somebody | May 21, 2014 11:22:29 AM | 22

@10 - okie. thanks for the al jazeera overview.. sounds about right.

@18 crone. i tend to agree with mrw @21.. that site looks like a gold bug site..

ot @15 susan sunflower.. that is one more black eye for the usa - gitmo.. i wish they would do the same with gw bush, cheney and the rest of the leaders who have sold the usa down the drain.. instead we get this..

Posted by: james | May 21, 2014 11:32:09 AM | 23

good article from the kremlin stooge today titled 'the russian gas carousel'
http://marknesop.wordpress.com/2014/05/21/the-russian-gas-carousel-who-wants-off-and-who-wants-on/#more-2911

Posted by: james | May 21, 2014 11:47:51 AM | 24

As Pepe says, Obama it's like Billy Idol, pivoting with himself. Uh-uh-uh-O.

Posted by: Colinjames | May 21, 2014 11:50:58 AM | 25

This is huge. Pepe Escobar was right. The Gazprom-China deal happened. So to see all that it entails, and why it effectively represents the beginning of the end for U.S. global domination, see his essay that was published Sunday on TomDispatch, "Who's Pivoting Where in Eurasia?"

Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 21, 2014 12:07:48 PM | 26


David Ignatius: A Finland model for Ukraine?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-a-finland-model-for-ukraine/2014/05/20/75a414a8-e05e-11e3-810f-764fe508b82d_story.html

Posted by: Virgile | May 21, 2014 12:12:03 PM | 27

The problem is that the brand "America" doesn't sell anymore.

Years of lies,black propaganda, hubris, obfuscation and mass killings, endless wars has dented the "American" brand beyond repair. Even worse is that fact that they no longer control the narrative anymore. How many of us here gives a rats ass what CNN, BBC, CNBC and their assorted affiliates say anymore? With access to information readily available and people finding things out for themselves, nobody give s f*ck about the 6 o-clock "news" anymore. f*ck em!

As for the stupid policy of Isolationism the sooner the White House wakes up and smell the coffee, the better for America. Nobody care about their policies anymore. When the Palestinian Authority begin to show signs of defiance to the American government, you know the gig's up.

They can sanction and isolate Russia all they want. Europe will be the ones picking the tab and paying heavily for America's stupidity. They better wake up!

Posted by: Zico | May 21, 2014 12:36:15 PM | 28

Somewhat off-topic, or maybe not: as you decline so does the quality of your allies and the truthiness of your propaganda ... But could the fascists in Kiev be any more blatantly fascist? When the Communist Party suggests basic common sense, stopping he military attacks on Ukraine's people in the East so that negotiations can be given a try ...

Ukraine’s new leaders have moved to outlaw the Communist Party, accusing it of supporting “separatism,” even as the country slides to civil war.

Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov on Saturday asked the Justice Ministry to take legal action against the Ukrainian Communists on the basis of evidence of their “anti-constitutional activities” ...

He ordered a probe into the Communist Party’s “separatism” after its leader Petro Symonenko demanded a halt to Kiev’s “anti-terrorist operation” in eastern Ukraine, saying it had turned into a “terrorist operation against its people.”

http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/world/ukraine-descends-further-into-civil-war/article6023425.ece

Posted by: fairleft | May 21, 2014 1:40:07 PM | 29

james, that "kremlin stooge" article is terrific. Thanks.

"...– thanks to American and European coup-enabling and pot-stirring - escalated into violence, Europe has alternated between yelling that it wants off the Russian gas tit, and insisting that South Stream must not be built."

and

Why would Europe take such a seemingly-counterproductive attitude? Well, that’s what we’re here to find out. But we can start from the position that Europe likes its gas going through Ukraine just fine, even if Ukraine is an unreliable partner who seldom pays its bills and whose intransigence imperils the gas supplies to a continent. And that, in turn, is because the vulnerability provides a counterweight to Russia. So long as Ukraine is the middleman in Russia’s dealings with Europe, Ukraine is important and necessary. Ukraine’s future hangs in the balance, and NATO would like very much to have it. Not because it loves Ukrainians or even because it believes Ukraine could be a prosperous asset one day. No, NATO wants Ukraine to prevent Russia from gaining control of it and building the Eurasian Union. And Russia will not ever fight a destructive war in Ukraine so long as Ukraine’s pipelines carry Russia’s profitable gas to Europe. That allows NATO to fight an economic war for control of Ukraine without getting directly involved militarily. If none of Russia’s gas went through Ukraine, Russia would still want control of Ukraine at least insofar as partnership in the Eurasian Union went – not to mention keeping NATO off its doorstep – but Europe would have lost leverage over Russia because Ukraine’s pipelines would no longer be important. As Frank Umbach – of London’s Kings College European Centre for Energy and Resource Security – put it bitterly, “”If we agree to South Stream, Europe will sell the rope with which Russia will hang Ukraine, and it will also agree to increase its energy dependency on Russia”.

Posted by: okie farmer | May 21, 2014 2:18:04 PM | 30

Virgile@27

The delusions are astonishing. David Ignatius is supposed to be in the know and Margaret Warner of PBS is on the ground in Eastern Ukraine but neither acknowledges that the USA instigated the Kiev Putsch, or that religious and cultural conflicts plus the Odessa Horror and the Right Sector’s rampage killing civilians is causing the alienation of the East from the West of Ukraine.

The USA has a gigantic problem on how to back down and agree to a Finlandized Ukraine without appearing to back down. This even harder because the US government is controlled by corporate crooks who are eager for war profits and new people and lands to exploit.

Adding neo-conservatives ideology to general incompetence, results in the old America Empire flailing about in its death throes. This instability, the end of cheap energy, and rising food prices guarantees further unrest. The question is will Europe overthrow its neo-liberal governments, nationalize its banks, and restore representative democracy; or become a full blown plutocracy along with America?

Posted by: VietnamVet | May 21, 2014 2:40:09 PM | 31

@23- okie.. i am glad you liked it! check out @26 mike maloneys link as well if you haven't already. it is also a very good overview.

Posted by: james | May 21, 2014 3:06:07 PM | 32

Here we go again,
uk prince call Putin a Hitler.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/21/prince-charles-vladimir-putin-adolf-hitler

West must be the most pathetic group in this world.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 21, 2014 3:06:26 PM | 33

Mike Whitney has a new piece on the Ukraine crisis. For me, the most interesting passage was the Putin quote it begins with. I tracked it down; it comes from this speech from 2006. Here is the quote, with a few sentences surrounding it added:

One of the biggest lessons of World War II is the importance of maintaining the combat readiness of the armed forces. I point out that our defence spending as a share of GDP is comparable or slightly less than in the other nuclear powers, France or Britain, for example. In terms of absolute figures, and we all know that in the end it is absolute figures that count, our defence spending is half that of the countries I mentioned, and bears no comparison at all with the defence spending figures in the United States. Their defence budget in absolute figures is almost 25 times bigger than Russia’s. This is what in defence is referred to as ‘their home – their fortress’. And good on them, I say. Well done!

But this means that we also need to build our home and make it strong and well protected. We see, after all, what is going on in the world. The wolf knows who to eat, as the saying goes. It knows who to eat and is not about to listen to anyone, it seems.

How quickly all the pathos of the need to fight for human rights and democracy is laid aside the moment the need to realise one’s own interests comes to the fore. In the name of one’s own interests everything is possible, it turns out, and there are no limits. But though we realise the full seriousness of this problem, we must not repeat the mistakes of the Soviet Union, the mistakes of the Cold War era, neither in politics nor in defence strategy. We must not resolve our defence issues at the expense of economic and social development. This is a dead end road that ultimately leaves a country’s reserves exhausted. There is no future in it.

The saying appears to be this:

Wolf, Fox and Hare fell into a trap. They sat there and cannot get out of the pit. After a little while they feel an emptiness. Then Wolf asks: Who shall we eat? Fox answers (looks awry at Hare): "Comrade Wolf knows whom to eat".

To spell it out: Wolf is the US, Fox is Europe, and Hare is Russia. That Soviet joke sums up the Ukraine crisis very well, I'd say.

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 3:33:30 PM | 34

naked capitalism has an interesting article about the company that Biden's son joined. The reporter, by chasing down addresses for a number of different shell companies, has linked Biden's co. to Kolomoisky. This is not proof but there might be a connection.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 21, 2014 3:47:38 PM | 35

lysias

Hey, Trollfield, Russia is no longer Communist, so what sense does it make to apply Cold War thinking to it? They are now more Christian than we are.

This is one of the points. Holefield finds sinister, for example, a commentor on Kunstler's blog who occasionally -but vaguely-extols "hierarchy" in his posts.
Putin represents hierarchy, Lenin, Stalin...the Tsar....spiritualism over the common and leveling materialism....Balakirev over Pussy Riot. Holefield prefers the material and will play his own leveling balancing act to promote it.

Posted by: amspirnational | May 21, 2014 4:05:21 PM | 36

As U.S. hegemony declines, we all know what the response is going to be inside the beltway. We're already seeing it now in the "pivot everywhere." What this "go down with guns blazing" reaction portends inside the U.S. homeland is a future filled with instability, realignment, unrest. The inherently unstable GOP (one could argue that it is just as unstable as the Kiev junta of Fatherland Party apparatchiks combined with Svoboda and Right Sector neo-Nazis) is set to win big in November. The Democrats are bleeding out; the depths of disillusionment with Obama have nowhere near been plumbed. By the autumn of 2014 Republicans will be on the precipice of total national government control -- judicial, executive and legislative branches. Rowan Berkeley is predicting a Rand Paul victory. Right now I'd say he is on the money. There will be anarchy in the U.S. -- Hopefully.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 21, 2014 4:08:20 PM | 37

cannonfire has a short article touching on the media and the ukraine that essentially lambasts npr. http://cannonfire.blogspot.ca/2014/05/the-horrors-or-should-that-be-whores-of.html

Posted by: james | May 21, 2014 4:08:22 PM | 38


http://www.thenation.com/blog/179959/tea-party-loses-big-business-wins


Dreyfuss has a horrid piece attacking Russia on Nation today, but he is okay here. There is no way the Elite will allow
Rand Paul the nomination, but if pushed into a corner it could utilize pretender Cruz as a foil.

Posted by: amspirnational | May 21, 2014 4:20:08 PM | 39

From the AP story that b cites about Russia driving a wedge between the US and EU:

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership is designed to boost trade across the EU, including newer member nations such as Romania and Bulgaria.

I would say that sentence is incoherent. The purpose of the EU, and its predecessor the European Community, was to "boost trade across the EU". The purpose of TTIP, in contrast, is to continue the dismantlement of EU worker, citizen, and environmental protections so that they are reduced to US levels; that is, to remove what sovereignty EU countries have left.

The Anglophone press now writes as if the US is part of Europe, but Russia isn't. It's a bizarro world, to use Justin Raimondo's term.

lysias #16:

Russia is no longer Communist, so what sense does it make to apply Cold War thinking to it? They are now more Christian than we are.

The argument can be made that Russia was more Christian than the US even during the Soviet period. This is because the dominant Christian sect in the US is evangelicalism, and that evangelicalism has become increasingly fundamentalist. I would say that fundamentalism is a Christian heresy, since it raises the Bible to the same level as Christ, whereas for a Christian, the Bible is nothing more than a means to the end of knowing Christ. Hence, Christian fundamentalists are not really Christians. (Too bad Nora is no longer here, since she also believes that Christian fundamentalists, or dispensationalists at any rate, are heretical.)

VietnamVet #31:

the old America Empire flailing about in its death throes

From Mike Whitney's article in today's CounterPunch:

The Ukraine crisis has its roots in a policy that dates back nearly 20 years. The origins of the policy can be traced to a 1997 article in Foreign Policy magazine by Zbigniew Brzezinski, titled “A Geostrategy for Eurasia.” The article makes the case that the United States needs to forcefully establish itself in Central Asia in order to maintain its position as the world’s only superpower.

One can trace the cause of the current crisis even further. Why must the US control Eurasia, as Zbig argues? One would think that being a continental power, with rich natural resources, would be enough to be able to maintain a successful and prosperous society. After all, those are what led the US to become a superpower in the first place.

The problem is that the US has been hoisted by its own petards: neoliberalism, globalization, and empire. It has hollowed out its manufacturing base to such an extent that it can no longer supply its citizens with its own manufactured goods; nor can it feed its own people without borrowing from abroad. The US has put all its eggs into one basket: Empire. The American economic model is now based entirely on leveraging its military power to continue stealing income streams and resources from other countries.

As Putin said, the Wolf knows whom to eat.

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 4:44:29 PM | 40

Hole N. Head,

Russia is hardly overpopulated.

Posted by: rkka | May 21, 2014 5:31:44 PM | 41

Russia's better at some stuff, the Americans at others. America is the king globally, but it knows it's no match for Russia in a regional war a long way from US shores, hence why it's desperately trying to surround western and south-western Russia with missiles, bases, and hostile states. It bit off more than it could chew with Ukraine though (and probably Syria too).

Posted by: Cynthia | May 21, 2014 5:34:45 PM | 42

$0;How about moonie loonies,as this widespread evangelical born again hypocrisy started around the late70's with those mind melding weirdos.
Very strange that an overwhelmingly Christian nation like America isn't allowed by those one can't critique to call itself that.And over in their promised land,a Jewish state is the height of wisdom,probity and the natural course of events.
And the American nationalist who will save US,and relieve the world,hasn't appeared on TV(MSM),do you think the bastards will let him?It's good to be the king(makers) neh?
Honor,a word unheard in modern America.

Posted by: dahoit | May 21, 2014 7:05:35 PM | 43

Prince "Never Could Get It Up With Women" calls Putin Hitler.

Prince Charles 'compares Putin to Hitler'

His family is reputed to have been one of Hitler's bank rollers, at least some of the sods were openly fond of the freak.

The Russians had the good sense to properly dispose of their royals. Come on, Britain, your royals are a bunch of genetically defective, incestuous parasites who are essentially felonious criminals of the lowest order, grow some testes and put the disgusting things where they belong.

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 7:06:23 PM | 44

Posted by: dahoit | May 21, 2014 7:05:35 PM | 43

"$0;How about moonie loonies,as this widespread evangelical born again hypocrisy started around the late70's with those mind melding weirdos."

Moon is (or was) a "bigboi" in the World Anti Communist League (WACL - though better described as WACKO). I think he ran it for a while, or was a founder. This is the non-zionist club (though not anti-zionist, many are also zionist) of the NWO fascists. These are the old time fascists, many of whom bankrolled nazis (you know, that nice Hitler guy) and the Catholic fascists the nazis morphed from (Franco, Mussolini, the Latin American crud, etc.). Oligarch membership in WACL and the zionist network basically covers the whole spectra of the western fascist ruling class.

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 7:25:18 PM | 45

@scalawag #44:

The Russians had the good sense to properly dispose of their royals.

You have just shot your credibility to hell. "The Russians" didn't kill their royals; a Jew did.

The difference between you and Banderites is that you hate different groups of people.

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 7:34:30 PM | 46

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 7:34:30 PM | 46

"The Russians" didn't kill their royals; a Jew did."

"You have just shot your credibility to hell."

Very illuminating. s Nora described at the Vineyard of the Saker, a major effort of the sayanim spam is to pretend to be anti-Jew and discredit anti-zionism using that vector. You lot never seem to realize your attempts to smear reflect more on your own deficiencies than anything else.

"The difference between you and Banderites is that you hate different groups of people."

You should register a copyright on that line, hasbara boi.*

*Your attacks against Kalithea, coordinated with the anti-zionist-zionists groupies gave your game away, thweetheart.

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 7:51:48 PM | 47

US feigns concern over Magnitsky case while Kiev uses artillery and armor against civilians - Moscow

"The Russian Foreign Ministry will not allow the expansion of the so-called 'Magnitsky list' to go without a response, being guided by both the principle of reciprocity and considerations of justice. "We regard the US Administration’s decision to impose visa and financial sanctions on 12 Russian citizens within the framework of the so-called 'Magnitsky list' as groundless and stemming from the cynical desire to exploit a human tragedy for dirty political purposes," Dolgov said in a statement posted on the ministry’s website on Wednesday."

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 8:05:45 PM | 48

#46 Demian Yakov Yurovsky was not a Jew. He was raised in the Russian Orthodox Church and converted to Lutherinism during his exile in Germany. Basically he was Russian.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 21, 2014 8:07:03 PM | 49

That's one hell of a link. Sorry for that, I screwed up on the formatting.

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 8:24:36 PM | 51

@ToivoS #49:

According to Wikipedia, "the young Yurovsky studied the Talmud in his early youth, while the family seems to have later attempted to distance themselves from their Jewish roots". Russians do not study the Talmud in their early youth. Furthermore, Yakov's family did not do a very good job of distancing themselves from their Jewish roots, because Yakov is a Jewish, not a Russian Orthodox Christian, name. In Tsarist times, the only names ethnic Russians could be given were the names of Russian Orthodox saints. You couldn't name your child "Moon Unit", and you couldn't name him "Yakov". This practice was continued in Soviet times, by the way. Putin is named after Saint Vladimir.

Thus, to claim that Yakov Yurovsky was not a Jew is absurd. He was a Jew in the same way that I am Russian: I left the Russian Orthodox faith but am still Russian; he left the Jewish faith but was still Jewish.

I really think that you're being disingenuous here. Everyone knows that being Jewish isn't simply a matter of religious belief.

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 8:54:03 PM | 52

Ukraine mini-SITREP May 21th, 20:42 UTC/Zulu

It's not really news, but it still amazes me: for two days in a row no Jen Psaki, speaking for the regime in Washington, has declared that the USA has doubts about the real affiliation of the Russian journalists working for the Russian new outlet LifeNews. Even though the professional record of these journalist is in the public domain and very well know (they have worked for many years including abroad), Mrs Psaki believes it is possible that there were spies. Ditto for the reporters of Russia Today which are still being held incommunicado.

Also in the news, the house of Oleg Tsarev has finally been burned.

I say finally, because:

1) The oligarch-mobster Kolomoisky had promised that to Tsarev
2) Tsarev had predicted that too
3) The house next to Tsarev had already been torched by mistake

I suppose that Mrs Psaki will speak of a "natural fire", or a "spontaneous combustion" or even an "operation of the Russian special forces" and threaten Russia with more sanctions.

As for the Western media, it couldn't care less. Just like when Uncle Sam bombed the TV station in Belgrade. After all, anybody opposing the AngloZionist Empire is a) a propagandist and b) subhuman.

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 8:55:40 PM | 53

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 8:54:03 PM | 52

"According to Wikipedia"

Can you get any more zio-facsist than that? Keep digging that hole, Israeli.

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 9:04:29 PM | 54

Follow-up to #52:

I read that Wikipedia article further, and it turns out that Yurovksy was given the order to kill the Tsar's family by Yakov Sverdlov, another Jew.

And yet the Russian Banderite scalawag says that the Russians "properly disposed" of the Tsar's family (note the fascist language).

Apparently, according to Scalawag, it is fine for Jewish communists to murder Russians, but murdering Russians is bad if Ukrainian nationalists do it.

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 9:07:19 PM | 55

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 9:07:19 PM | 55

Keep digging that hole, Israeli bumtool.
-----------------

Damien's paymasters:

Kiev ready for ‘final stage’ of military op in E. Ukraine

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 9:31:34 PM | 56

demian - ignore the troll.

Posted by: james | May 21, 2014 9:36:21 PM | 57

Demian, your pravoslavic fervour does you credit, no doubt, among the believers. But this is not Saker's blog. We aren't believers here. We do not, AFAIK, subscribe to the view that Jewish blood is Satanic. I don't subscribe to it. And as what you are, you would look pretty silly trying to explain that Jewish revolutionary fervour, and hatred for the Tsar, have socioeconomic roots. So I suggest you leave that line of argument elsewhere.

Rowan Berkeley is predicting a Rand Paul victory. Right now I'd say he is on the money. There will be anarchy in the U.S. -- Hopefully. Posted by: Mike Maloney | May 21, 2014 4:08:20 PM | 37
Now it's my turn to put my head above the parapet of the 57 varieties of anti-semitism. I said, in one of my less felicitous turns of phrase, that I thought 'the Jews' would get Rand Paul the nomination. You know who I mean, I hope: I mean Sheldon Adelson. He's the kingmaker now. And it would be a stroke of genius. The obvious alternative is Jeb Bush, and to nominate him would be a statement on behalf of the Good Old Boys, which would probably lose them the election. We know that Rand ('little Rand', as Tarpley calls him with unconcealed sizeist contempt) has been spinning like a top to make Jewish friends, since his original isolationist views earned their vocal displeasure. The Tea Party politicians have always been ready to sell out the whole thing, which was never a genuine grassroots movement anyway, it was an astroturf movement designed to be sold out from above, as are all the Dems' corresponding efforts.

If 'the Jews' (as always, obviously, I mean the elite, not Uncle Gus with the begel shop) were as consistently illuminated as I would like to think, they would not miss this trick. But like all of us, they fumble and drop the ball as often as they get it right. Adelson knows what he wants, but he doesn't think much about how to get grassroots support for it, in fact he doesn't give a damn. For Adelson, like for Mitt Romney, the bottom 50% don't count at all, and he wouldn't even think about it. He'd be happier with Jeb. Christie is a nonentity, but then again, that doesn't matter either. Rand would be a masterstroke, anyhow. Maybe they could even stage a convention revolt to bring Rand the nomination: that would be so 'awesome' in media land that half the Dems would come straight over and vote for him too. You get the idea, anyway.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 21, 2014 9:42:57 PM | 58

Posted by: james | May 21, 2014 9:36:21 PM | 57

The sayanim making their version of the wagon circle.

:D

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 9:47:20 PM | 59

scalawag why don't you just fuck off if you have nothing better to do then pick on people? fucking retard..

Posted by: james | May 21, 2014 9:54:44 PM | 60

Posted by: james | May 21, 2014 9:54:44 PM | 60

"scalawag why don't you just fuck off if you have nothing better to do then pick on people? fucking retard.."

Blow me, Israelo-nazi.

---------------------

Губарев: Бандит Ахметов 23 года грабил Донбасс

Yandex translation.

"Gubarev: Bandit Akhmetov 23 years robbed Donbass"

"According to the people's Governor of Donetsk region, the oligarch must begin to pay taxes to the budget DND.

Paul Gubarev was surprised by the recent statements of the richest man of Ukraine is Rinat Akhmetov, in which he accused the authorities of the self-proclaimed Donetsk national Republic in banditry and looting and ordered the employees of their enterprises in Donbass to take to the streets in protest against the activities of DND. People's Governor also urged billionaire to pay taxes in DND.

- I would not like to hear accusations of looting from the main looters and bandits of Donbass, which is 23 years robbed us and prosperous earlier the region was turned into a depressed, " said Gubarev. - It is best to capitulate and to start paying taxes in DND.

People's Governor also questioned the adequacy of the Kiev authorities and called the accusations against journalists LifeNews stupidity. He also spoke about the methods of psychological influence, that uses the SBU.

- I think, the authorities in Kyiv lost touch with reality and what they are accused of journalists, is foolish things, " said Gubarev in interview to our channel. - At me in the SBU had a strong psychological impact. They tried to humiliate both morally, and physically.

People's Governor also noted that does not want, that he was considered a Martyr, because he is a fighter and stay in captivity by the Ukrainian authorities call a part of their struggle."

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 10:07:12 PM | 61

The CIA Coordinates Nazis and Jihadists

"May 8, 2007 in Ternopol (Western Ukraine), Nazi and Islamist factions create a so-called anti- imperialist front to fight against Russia. Organizations from Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine and Russia participate, including Islamist Crimean separatists from Adygea, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Kabardino-Balkaria, from Karachay-Cherkessia, Ossetia, and from Chechnya. Not able to get there because of international sanctions, Dokka Umarov had his contribution read. The Front is chaired by Dmytro Yarosh, who became, at the time of the coup in Kiev, February 2014, Deputy Secretary of National Security Council of Ukraine.

The confrontation between the Kiev putschists, backed by NATO and Ukrainian federalists, supported by Russia, has reached a point of no return. On May 2, President Olexander Turchinov and Israeli oligarch Ihor Kolomoisky organized a massacre at the House of Unions in Odessa. The Western press at first minimized the scale of the atrocities and then went mute when the testimony and evidence was accumulated [1]. After these horrors, it is no longer possible for two peoples to continue to live together.

Three scenarios are possible: either the United States will make Ukraine a new Yugoslavia and cause a war in the hope Russia and the European Union will be bogged down; or else they will multiply confrontations around Russia, starting with Georgia; or else they will grow non-state combatants to destabilize Russia itself, Crimea or Dagestan.

Whatever option is chosen, Washington has, as of now, a mercenary army in place. The Defence Council of Kiev sent envoys to Western Europe to hire far-right activists to come and fight against the Federalists (called "pro-Russian"). And a Pravy Sektor France cell, whose members will soon be integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard, has already been created.

In addition, the Kiev Defense Council intends "to grow numbers" to add jihadists who already have real military experience to these Western European neo-Nazis.

In fact, if we are willing to ignore the symbolic bric-a-brac on each side, Nazis and jihadists today have in common both the cult of violence and the Zionist dream of world domination. They are compatible with all other organizations supported by Washington, including Sergei Udaltsov’s Left Front and his friend, Russian anti-Putin leader, Alexei Navalny. There are already numerous contacts between them."

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 10:18:30 PM | 62

@Rowan Berkeley #58:

I rarely look at the comments at the Saker, and post there even more rarely, largely because of the "pravoslavic", as you put it, character of the blog.

I am simply making an empirical point. If you look at this Wikipedia article about the man who ordered the execution of the Tsar's family, you find this: "Among the men entrusted with carrying out the orders were Sverdlov, Filipp Goloshchekin (ru) and Yakov Yurovsky". All three men were Jews. (The source cited for that is The Jewish Century, an apparently highly Judaophilic book.)

It seems that the three men most instrumental in the Tsar's family's murder were all Jews. Does that have any significance? I leave that for others to judge. My take on that is that some Jews had so much resentment against Russians that they were willing to kill them. In their hatred of Russians, such Jews were no different than Ukrainians or Latvians, so I don't think there is anything specifically Jewish about this.

And my point of view here is White Russian, not Russian Orthodox, FYI.

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 10:18:53 PM | 63

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 10:18:53 PM | 63

"And my point of view here is White Russian, not Russian Orthodox, FYI."

What your kind represent to the people of Russia, Israeli-American.

Denikin – White Russian General

On December 16, 1872, the son of a one time serf, Anton Ivanovich Denikin was born in Szpetal Dolny. This small village in what is now Poland, was once a part of the Russian Empire. This unlikely leader was part of anti-communist movement during the Russian Civil War (Episode 71). He was to commit numerous atrocities, especially against the Jewish population. His push towards Moscow during the summer of 1919 almost toppled the Bolshevik’s but ultimately his army was defeated.

While in retreat, Denikin’s army began its legacy of atrocities against the Jewish population. Over 100,000 were murdered in the pogroms. By now, international pressure and support forced Denikin to resign. He eventually fled to France but ended up in the United States in 1945, dying there in 1947. Initially buried in France, his remains were brought back to Russia in 2005 at the behest of his daughter. He is now buried at the Donskoy Monastery in Moscow."

That from a site that ignores the atrocities the "whites" carried out against non-Jews, which were exponentially worse.

But hey, damaian, them commies all deserved to die, right.

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 10:30:49 PM | 64

@scalawag #64:

You're a Soviet Russian expat, right? My impression is that Russians who have stayed in Russia have reconciled themselves with White Russian emigrés. You, in contrast, seem to be living in the past.

You remind me of Ukrainians who emigrated to the US and Canada, who are significantly more nationalistic than the Ukrainians who stayed in the Ukraine.

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 10:41:19 PM | 65

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 10:18:53 PM | 63

"And my point of view here is White Russian"

Second thought, maybe you meant white as in white supremacist? White supremacy, western fascism and zionism go hand in hand, along with the far righty mind warp. One could also add in the worship of royalty and the craven subservience to hierarchy you imply with your hatred of Jews for killing your sacred czar. Kind of reminds me of the old "Jews killed Jesus" lines.

irregardless, damian, you staked yourself out a great place to be in to be on the wrong side of history. Good luck with that. ;)

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 10:46:01 PM | 66

Demian, what is your religion? I'm curious.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 21, 2014 10:53:29 PM | 67

@scalawag #66:

I suppose you hate Solzhenitsyn too, for writing this:

in the apartment of Gimmera and Flakserman, where the decision was made about the Bolshevik Revolution, among the 12 participants were Trotsky, Zinovev, Sverdlov, Uritskiy, Sokolniks [and one other Jewish name the translator won't give us properly]. And who was chosen first for the Politburo? Of its seven members: Trotsky, Zinoviev, [another Jewish name], Sokolniks. That is in no way a small proportion. There can be no doubt -- Jewish otshchepentsy were present in the Bolshevik leadership in great disproportion to their numbers in the population -- and they comprised too many of the Bolshevik commissars for a relationship to be denied. […]

Lenin … understood what a powerful mobilizing force the Jewish question was in the ideological fight. He also saw to it that the special bitterness of the Jews to the Tsar was prepared for us in the Revolution.

[F]rom the first days of the revolution Lenin found it necessary to consider how the Jewish question would eventually be addressed. Like much he did not forsee in state questions, he did not see how the formation of Jewish power within the Bolsheviks would lead the Jews, as a result of war scattered throughout Russia, to take control of the apparatus of the Russian state during the decisive months and years -- a process that began with the replacements that occurred after the Bolshevik mass strike against Russian clerks. That strike was organized by the Jewish settlers in the Russian frontier and border regions, who did not return to their relatives after the war.

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 11:10:03 PM | 68

I wonder if the Good Old Boys would be prepared to strong-arm it for Jeb, the way they did for Dubya, with goon squads storming the polling stations, and the Supremes legitimising it after the fact? The big MIC money would go for that.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 21, 2014 11:11:01 PM | 69

@Rowan Berkeley #67:

I was raised Russian Orthodox, but stopped believing in God when I was about thirteen. It was only when I got into Hegel that I became interested in Christianity again. I now identify as a Lutheran, albeit a heterodox one, since I am a nonbeliever. I see Hegelian philosophy as the logical endpoint of Christianity, and Marxism as a Hegelian heresy.

I hope that answers your question. ;-)

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 11:15:50 PM | 70

#63 Demien Yuri Slezkine the author of the Jewish Century is extremely right wing. His kind of writing is supported and encouraged by the ultra right in Israel. It is a political thing there. Many of the founders of the state of Israel were socialists and communists. The Stern Gang wing of Israeli politics hate these left wing Zionists. They continually promote the big Jewish Bolshevism lie that was the basis of Nazi and Henry Ford propaganda in the 20s and 30s. You will note that Kevin McDonald writes very favorably of Slezkine.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 21, 2014 11:45:17 PM | 71

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 11:10:03 PM | 68

"I suppose you hate Solzhenitsyn too, for writing this"

Sorry to burst your bubble, white boi, but I had not read that before. :)

I don't have any particularly strong emotions about your hero Solzhenitsyn. I read a little bit of his work, found it lacking considerably in objectivity, something you far righties would not understand, and consider him to be about as credible as the American historian Stephen Ambrose, for very similar, though not exactly the same reasons (damn, that's probably 2 of your far righty gods I blasphemed now. Should I go for a third and say Tom Clancy's contribution to history is his photo beig an ideal urinal backdrop?). I place Solzhenitsyn in the same category as I do most American "historians". He writes in the same style. IE: they opinionize history to fit their prejudices to the extent what they write reflects their bias more than it does anything factually based.

Posted by: scalawag | May 21, 2014 11:50:43 PM | 72

Ahem. Scalawag: White Russian generally refers to Tsarists, although northern Rus' (Belorus') are also 'white' (and western Rus' are 'red,' i.e. Halychyna---I cannot remember the other colour directions now...)

Posted by: Johan Meyer | May 21, 2014 11:52:10 PM | 73

It does indeed. It's very interesting. I have taken certain ideas from Hegel, but with caution. I'm not a simple Marxist, anyway. I incorporate a spiritual dimension into my thinking, but in an antinomian way. That is to say, I don't recognise any 'God' whatsoever, but I do recognise a spiritual realm, which is an anarchic one. I have arranged it in such a way that it doesn't matter if people choose to regard it as no more than a giant metaphor. But put it this way: something happens in mass psychology, over and above anything that the dogmatic Marxists could explain by Pavlovian theories. I have learned a lot, I think, from the very strange Dr Michael Aquino, the ex Church of Satan guy who was also one of the founders of US Army psyops. He was a Lt-Col, they're always Lt-Cols, it's fascinating. But anyway, he developed a sort of post-satanist theory, around a hypothetical being he called Set. He never really escaped from the Army mentality, in my view, and his so-called temple of Set is a very parade-ground sort of affair, which is one of the reasons I'm not a member of it, but I took his ideas and set off in my own direction with them. I can be a Marxist on the material plane, where it's relevant, but in the spiritual realm I'm more like a Bakuninist. In fact, Bakunin wrote something very much to the point, if I can find it. Yes, here it is:

All religions, with their gods, their demi-gods, and their prophets, their messiahs and their saints, were created by the prejudiced fancy of men who had not attained the full development and full possession of their faculties. But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge. The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth. The idea of God implies the abdication of human reason and justice; it is the most decisive negation of human liberty, and necessarily ends in the enslavement of mankind, both in theory and practice. If God is, man is a slave; now, man can and must be free; then, God does not exist.

– Michael Bakunin, “God and the State”, 1871

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | May 21, 2014 11:54:07 PM | 74

Curdled U. Hangnail's posts have always been ignorant.

Posted by: guest77 | May 22, 2014 12:00:05 AM | 75

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know too much about the man but from what I do know: Solzhenitsyn has absolutely no credibility on any subject as far as I am concerned.

He seems to me to be a dusty fascist Quisling whose complaints seemed very relevant (and extremely useful to folks like Reagan and Thatcher) until the Russian people got a real taste of "free-market democracy".

Posted by: guest77 | May 22, 2014 12:06:50 AM | 76

Posted by: Johan Meyer | May 21, 2014 11:52:10 PM | 73

Ahem, that's sweet of you to help out a fellow traveler, but the "white Russians" damian refers to were also the predecessors of the Ukrainian bandera nazis of WW2 and today, along with the rest of the fascist groups in eastern Europe. All were created, funded and in many cases led by western fascists. While these fascist "whites' lost to the "reds" in most of Russia, they solidified their [bowel] movements in the Baltics and much of eastern Europe. The current fascist displays in these regions are a replay of the 1920's and 1930's.

Posted by: scalawag | May 22, 2014 12:14:12 AM | 77

@ToivoS #71:

I am not surprised that Yuri Slezkine is right wing, since I can't see how a Judaophile can be anything else. But what interest would a right-wing Jew have in documenting that the three main people behind the murder of the Tsar's family were Jews? None, as far as I can tell. So, right wing or not, he is definitely not an antisemite, so I don't think he would make that up.

@scalawag #72:

Solzhenitsyn is not a hero of mine. I never thought that he is a good novelist. I didn't even know about his book Two Hundred Years Together: Russo-Jewish History until I did a Web search this evening; the reason I searched using his name was that I recalled that he had pointed out that there were a lot of Jews in the Bolshevik party. I have never had any interest in reading The Gulag Archipelago, which apparently turned French "intellectuals" off Soviet Russia.

My main problem with your position is that you go on about Zionism and are fond of the Soviet system, whereas Jews were at least as influential in the Soviet Union as they are in the "West" today.

In other words, if you are so put off by Jewish influence on political institutions, I don't see how you can have the nostalgia and admiration for the Soviet Union that you evidently have.

Posted by: Demian | May 22, 2014 12:15:25 AM | 78

Posted by: Demian | May 22, 2014 12:15:25 AM | 78

Because my views of the USSR are not clouded by the fascist fucked up the butt mentality of the likes of j Edgar Hoover and McCarthy. Like yours. :)

Posted by: scalawag | May 22, 2014 12:41:57 AM | 79

@crone 48


LOL! while "Belgium" snaps up billions worth of US treasuries..."Belgium"...oh dear...it couldn't be more obvious if it were "Uncle Ernie" buying up billions worth of US treasuries, you know, as Russia dumps them.....well he receives a very generous pension..What do you mean suspicious ? Reeeeeeally?

Posted by: Marc | May 22, 2014 12:47:54 AM | 80

I never cared for S. as a novelist, but I only read a couple of the novels, and the whole Red Wheel epos I found just about unreadable. But Gulag is well worth a read, it's far less tendentious. It's a bit like a Studs Terkel book, more documentary-cum-folk-history. Lot of interesting stories, details, etc.

Posted by: VRainov | May 22, 2014 12:54:17 AM | 81

@Rowan Berkeley #74:

One of my failings is that I have never read Bakunin. When I think of Bakunin, I think of one of the characters in Fassbinder's Die dritte Generation reading him out loud. That is how primitive I am in this respect.

@scalawag #77:

You have a point, but saying that White Russians were a "predecessor" to Bandera is an insult to all Russians, I think, since White Russians were Russian nationalists, whereas there is not much content to Bandera's ideology other than blind hatred of everything Russian.

I am in the process of learning about the influence of White Russians on Nazism by reading this book: The Russian Roots of Nazism: White Émigrés and the Making of National Socialism, 1917-1945. To quote from the book's blurb:

This book examines the overlooked topic of the influence of anti-Bolshevik, anti-Semitic Russian exiles on Nazism. White émigrés contributed politically, financially, militarily, and ideologically to National Socialism. This work refutes the notion that Nazism developed as a peculiarly German phenomenon: it arose primarily from the cooperation between völkisch (nationalist/racist) Germans and vengeful White émigrés. From 1920-1923, Adolf Hitler collaborated with a conspiratorial far right German-White émigré organization, Aufbau (Reconstruction). Aufbau allied with Nazis to overthrow the German government and Bolshevik rule through terrorism and military-paramilitary schemes. This organization's warnings of the monstrous 'Jewish Bolshevik' peril helped to inspire Hitler to launch an invasion of the Soviet Union and to initiate the mass murder of European Jews. This book uses extensive archival materials from Germany and Russia, including recently declassified documents, and will prove invaluable reading for anyone interested in the international roots of National Socialism.

Please note that by going on about "Jewish Bolshevism", as I have in recent posts, I am true to my heritage. But I am willing to examine this concept critically.

@guest77 #76:

I think you and I basically have the same impression of Solzhenitsyn. What I stand by from my recent posts is that I believe it would have been hard to find Russians who would have been willing to kill the Tsar's family; that is why Jews were used for that purpose.

Posted by: Demian | May 22, 2014 12:56:23 AM | 82

scalawag | May 22, 2014 12:41:57 AM | 79
I see. More of a vanilla fascism guy, I take it.

Posted by: VRainov | May 22, 2014 12:58:23 AM | 83

Posted by: Demian | May 22, 2014 12:56:23 AM | 82

"but saying that White Russians were a "predecessor" to Bandera is an insult to all Russians, I think, since White Russians were Russian nationalists"

Horseshit.

The "white Russians" were the equivalent of the Nicaraguan contras, and they practiced pretty much the same terrorist tactics. The same backers of your "white Russians" are now running al qaida death squads in Syria and bandera nazis in the Ukraine. Same oligarchic psychopathic butt bandits running the show, they just call their prison bitches by different names.

Posted by: scalawag | May 22, 2014 1:09:14 AM | 84

@scalawag #84:

Maybe. But what was Trotsky's "war communism" other than terrorism?

Posted by: Demian | May 22, 2014 1:17:52 AM | 85

Posted by: Demian | May 22, 2014 1:17:52 AM | 85

"But what was Trotsky's "war communism" other than terrorism?"

What is it without going to one of your far righty sites, that promote fascism, corporate control and bigotry?

Posted by: scalawag | May 22, 2014 1:31:24 AM | 86

@scalawag #86:

Please explain why you believe that killing the Tsar's family was a good thing. I really don't think that people like Putin and Lavrov think it was. Do you think I'm wrong about that?

Posted by: Demian | May 22, 2014 1:47:07 AM | 87

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 10:18:53 PM | 63

Many German revolutionaries also were Jews. There just were not that many political choices for Jews in 19th century nationalism turned into 20th century fascism.

This here is the timetable of equal rights for Jews. In Russia, the date is 1917.

Jewish emancipation in Europe and Russia had a twist - the French revolution and Napoleon

So when the code Napoleon brought Jewish emancipation to all of occupied Europe and Russia, nationalist counterrevolutions reverted it, with Jews remaining pitted against the nationalist movement.

You had four political choices as a Jew, remain segregated and religious, develop a nationalism of your own - Zionism, turn to a revolutionary ideology of equal rights for all or change your religion and assimilate completely.
There are all kinds of grey zones and mixes between those solutions. As there are grey zones and mixes between revolutionary movements, nationlism and antisemitism (see rootless cosmopolitans)

Posted by: somebody | May 22, 2014 2:37:46 AM | 88

@Scalawag
While the White forces did commit several crimes, especially in Ukraine (Wrangel and Denikin, if memory serves), it doesn't automatically follow that all pro-Tsar folks necessarily approved. As for myself, I'm anti-monarchist. And the Bandera followers are to my knowledge more the outgrowth of Polish and German/Austrian intelligence. And I'll upset Demian a bit---I'm more sympathetic to Makhno. (Although I think Mao had a splendid idea with the Chinese emperor---no killing, just make the bum work...)

Posted by: Johan Meyer | May 22, 2014 2:50:19 AM | 89

Posted by: Demian | May 21, 2014 10:18:53 PM | 63

Demian, in that same Wikipedia entry on Yakov Sverdlov:

...Yuri Slezkine in his book The Jewish Century expressed the same opinion: "Early in the Civil War, in June 1918, Lenin ordered the killing of Nicholas II and his family. Among the men entrusted with carrying out the orders were Sverdlov, Filipp Goloshchekin (ru) and Yakov Yurovsky."

This, by and large, originated from a 1922 book by a Russian White general, Mikhail Diterikhs, The Murder of the Tsar’s Family and members of the House of Romanov in the Urals, in which the author sought to portray the murder of the royal family as a Jewish plot against Russia. There he referred to Severdlovsk by his Jewish nickname "Yankel" and to Goloshchekin as "Isaac". This book in turn was based on an account by one Nikolai Sokolov, special investigator for the Omsk regional court, whom Diterikhs assigned with the task of investigating the disappearance of the Romanovs while serving as regional governor under the White regime during the Russian Civil War.

Obviously the Romanovs were widely hated in Russia. But where is there any evidence that Jews 'especially' hated them more than all the other brutalized and pissed off peasants, workers and revolutionaries? And how could 'the Jews' have 'gotten away' with such a murder if it had not been approved by Lenin and others higher in the chain of command? If they had been acting on outside the chain of command, there likely would've been at least some negative impact on their post-revolutionary careers, but there wasn't.

Posted by: fairleft | May 22, 2014 2:57:20 AM | 90

Posted by: somebody | May 22, 2014 2:37:46 AM | 88

There was a fifth choice as there is today: advance a nationalism based on place and not ethnicity.

Posted by: fairleft | May 22, 2014 3:02:51 AM | 91

@fairleft #90:

I deliberately avoided bringing up Lenin here. I agree that Lenin probably gave the order to kill the Romanovs.

Do you have evidence that Russian peasants hated the Romanovs? My intuition tells me they didn't. And when he Romanovs were killed, the Tsar had already been deposed. So what other motive could there have been for the murder of the Romanovs other than the Bolsheviks knowing that a large segment of the Russian population had positive feelings about the Romanovs? If "all the other brutalized and pissed off peasants, workers and revolutionaries" hated the Romanovs as much as the Jews who killed them hated them, there would have been no point in killing the Romanovs in the first place. The very fact that the Bolsheviks killed the Romanovs shows that the Bolsheviks believed that the Russian people viewed the Romanovs positively. (Yes, I know that Nicholas II was an idiot, and I hate him.)

@Johan Meyer #89:

I had never heard of Nestor Makhno, but having looked at the Wikipedia article about him, your being sympathetic to him does not upset me. He sounds kind of like the people running the Donetsk and Sloviansk People's Republics today.

@somebody #88:

I have absolutely no idea of how Napoleon affected the situation of Jews in Europe. So I will have to study your links.

Posted by: Demian | May 22, 2014 3:44:19 AM | 92

Posted by: fairleft | May 22, 2014 3:02:51 AM | 91

There was not in most of continental Europe except France (and there it was uneasy, see Dreyfus affair) and Britain, the countries where bourgeois revolutions had won, but not in the Austrian Hungarian Empire and the reactionary (against Napoleon) 19th century nationalist movements of uniting Germany, where "place" was equalled with language and ethnicity, and Tsarist Russia where the ruling class was legitimized by religion and imperial fights were justified by pan-slavism.

It is no accident that Zionists come from Germany, the areas of the former Austrian Hungarian Empire and Tsarist Russia.

Posted by: somebody | May 22, 2014 3:55:38 AM | 93

Excellent

Yet another thread successfully derailed into a useless discussion of how innocent the poor likkle jews are regarding events in which the guilty parties were mostly individuals of jewish extraction. For example the idea that Lenin was not jewish and therefore there was little jewish influence in the actions of the bolshevicks is so risible as to be unworthy of serious rebuttal.

Well done Zio-trolls, Tel Aviv is proud of ya!

The fakes that promote such nonsense, the ToiboiS's, the fairlefts, gimp77's etc should just be laughed at for their ignorance and obvious stupidity, instead of being treated like they are serious commenters capable of providing insights

Posted by: rofl | May 22, 2014 4:08:08 AM | 94

Reading MOA commentators debating history, in particular communism, national socialism and zionism, reminds one of two teenagers arguing about who was the best front man for Van Halen, David Lee Roth or Sammy Hagar.
By the way, great comment at SST by Col Lang on B's knowledge and judgement of the US military.

Posted by: Apuleius | May 22, 2014 4:13:23 AM | 95

I have long said that the US elites are not going to go down quietly like the UK and USSR ones did.
They will take everyone with them if they can.

The only thing that will stop them doing that will be national bankruptcy, which can only happen if the US$ is replaced.
So we are in a race between nuclear war and US bankruptcy.

You think the US is aggressive now, you ain't seen nothing yet, whoever is the next President their administration will be so bad and aggressive we will long for Obama ("the good old days").


An interesting link on how the US has honed its country destroying strategy:
Link: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38570.htm

Head Of Fake Libyan Revolution Admits Ghadafi Did Not Kill Protesters
By Saman Mohammadi

May 22 2014 "ICH" - "Truth Excavator " - America and NATO ended secularism in Libya and brought Islamic extremists to power, who have committed many crimes, including massacring thousands of black Libyans during the immediate stages after the destruction of Gaddafi's regime.

Video Title: Head of False Libyan Revolution Admits Ghadafi did not Kill Protesters. Source: Karma Justice. Date Published: May 20, 2014. Description:

Mustafa Abdul Jalil, Head of the National Transitional Council in Benghazi in 2011, admits:
Gaddafi did not order the shooting that started the false revolution in Libya.

Posted by: oldskeptic | May 22, 2014 4:17:46 AM | 96

Excellent piece by Peter Lee, especially the first paragraph below, which states exactly our (the world's) problem with the precipitous decline (brought on by bullheaded fantasyland foreign policy stupidity as well as comparative economic growth/stagnation) in US power except the military kind:

As the deterrent effect of US soft power in Asia dwindles, the US must decide whether to force developments in Asia into the sphere in which it still exercises unquestioned dominance - the hard power of military action - or resign itself to an ineluctable erosion of US prestige and influence in the region and a retreat to bilateral horsetrading with the unpalatable "Eurasian" powers.

It will also be interesting to see if America recognizes that it has a choice, albeit from an unattractive menu of options. But if the Western spin of the Ukraine crisis is any guide, the US will console itself with the fantasy that it is merely reacting passively to aggression, the pivot was forced on it, and the PRC can be blamed for the unwise choices that Washington made.

Posted by: fairleft | May 22, 2014 4:33:12 AM | 97

Oh please Demian, the Jews did not kill your beloved Tsar. It was the new Bolshevik government. Though you come up with evidence that Yurovsky, the actual killer, had some Jews in his ancestry, he was as Russian as Russian can be. His father may have studied the Talmud as a student but his son was raised in the Russian Orthodox church. Somehow that makes him a Russian Christian. I guess many people of the world might consider me a Christian given that all of my eight great grandparents were believing Lutherans and two of my great grandfathers were Lutheran ministers. But both of my grand fathers were open atheists as were my father and mother. As I am. I have been removed from any kind of religious training for over two generations. No American would consider me a Christian though I have been aware that many foreign nationals assume so. If Yurovsky never considered himself Jewish then I would think that is more relevant than whatever gods his ancestors worshiped.

Posted by: ToivoS | May 22, 2014 4:37:40 AM | 98

oldskeptic, it's possible that "national bankruptcy" could trigger 'taking everyone down with them'. You know

War is the health of the state

Posted by: okie farmer | May 22, 2014 4:44:19 AM | 99

sorry, forgot the link

http://www.bopsecrets.org/CF/bourne.htm

Posted by: okie farmer | May 22, 2014 4:45:29 AM | 100

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