April 13, 2014
Ukraine: EU Ashton Who Then Called For "Dialog", Now Calls For "Authority Of The State"
“I call upon president Yanukovych, the government together with the leaders of the opposition to find an immediate way out of this deepening crisis, and to continue the work to find a way to solve the political crisis through dialogue,” said Ashton.
"The EU commends the Ukrainian authorities for pursuing their law and order operations in a measured way, in order to establish the authority of the state."
The coup government understood:
Ukraine’s Security Council has approved a full-scale security operation in the country’s eastern regions following the crackdown in Slavyansk, coup-imposed President Aleksandr Turchinov said. Military forces will take part in the operation, he added.
Well, well. I wonder who from the military will sign up for this.
Posted by b on April 13, 2014 at 12:19 PM | Permalink
Yanukovich is going to give a speech. He can play peacemaker now.
I don't think the Kyiv government banks on the West.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 13, 2014 12:29:49 PM | 1
Oh gosh. Finnish owned Moscow Times
Russian news agencies reported Sunday that U.S. CIA director John Brennan had a secret meeting with Ukrainian officials in Kiev before they began operations against separatist forces that had taken over buildings in the country's east.
Brennan landed in Ukraine on Saturday under an assumed name and held a "series of secret meetings" with the country's "power bloc" Interfax reported, citing an unidentified official in the Ukrainian parliament. The unidentified official said that there were "unconfirmed reports" that the U.S. security official was behind the decision to use force in eastern Ukraine after pro-Russian separatist forces took control of the city of Slovyansk.
Ukrainian parliament Communist Party deputy Vladimir Golub told RIA Novosti that lawmakers were talking about the visit openly and opined that the Ukrainian Security Service had become a unit of the CIA.
Commenting on the report, deputy chairman for the State Duma's Defense Committee Frants Klintsevich said that he would view such a visit as a challenge to Russia.
Simon Ostrovsky @SimonOstrovsky 2 Std.
Dead man in Sloviansk shooting was SBU, says Interior Minister. Incident may be the reason they cancelled the operation they announced.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 13, 2014 12:45:06 PM | 2
Ashton has established herself as a slug...
Phone Wrecks: The Secret Agenda of Ashton and Nuland Revealed
"Ashton implied that a boxer, a World Bank technocrat, and a neo-Nazi street thug had more say in the future of Ukraine than a woman(DOCTOR) questioning the opposition’s role in shooting to death their own... It is clear that neither the Ashton nor Nuland phone calls were meant to be overheard by the 'unwashed masses'. However, thanks to the intercept capabilities of loyal and proficient Ukrainian security agents, the world now understands the perfidy of two chattering women who are helping lead Europe and, possibly, the rest of the world, into a massive conflagration…"
Posted by: HAHA | Apr 13, 2014 12:48:39 PM | 3
ashton quote from the first link "European Union foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton, who tried to broker a power-sharing transition, has urged Ukraine’s leadership “to address the root causes of the crisis”.
i wonder if she is still thinking this way? is she still trying to broker a power-sharing transition now with the events unfolding in eastern ukraine?
Posted by: james | Apr 13, 2014 12:58:15 PM | 4
Typical double standards and hypocrisy from a US official, every time one of them opens their mouth it's basically unavoidable. One wonders what goes in these people's heads and hearts, or what passes for them. I get the impression bloodshed on a wide scale is in the immediate future for Ukraine, which could be somewhat easily avoided if the US and EU were in an "Ashton THEN" instead of "Ashton NOW" state of mind.
Posted by: colinjames | Apr 13, 2014 1:11:55 PM | 6
Ashton sounds completely out of the loop - this here is the full text of her statement.
This here is Lavrov
Lavrov warned Kerry that “if Kiev’s threats to use force against people driven to despair in the southeast are carried out, prospects for further cooperation on the Ukrainian issue, including a planned four-party meeting in Geneva, will be foiled,” he said.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 13, 2014 1:16:18 PM | 7
More Russian Foreign Ministry
We demand the Maidan henchmen, who overthrew the legitimate president, to immediately stop the war against their own people, to fulfill all the obligations under the Agreement of 21 February,” the Foreign Ministry said.
It depends on the West now to stop the civil war in Ukraine, the ministry stressed.
“The Russian side calls the UN Security Council and the OSCE to urgently consider the crisis in south-east Ukraine,” Moscow concluded.
Yanukovich might as well proclaim he will reenter the country backed by Russian troups now.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 13, 2014 1:19:47 PM | 8
Here is a complaint sent to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office on 13th March 2014, needless to say I have had no answers.Yet.
In a statement to the House of Commons on 4th March 2014, the Foreign Secretary deceived the House about the legitimacy of the new regime in Ukraine. He led the House to believe that the Ukrainian parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, had removed President Yanukovich from power on 22 February 2014 in accordance with the Ukrainian constitution and that therefore “it is wrong to question the legitimacy of the new authorities. It is simply untrue that the Rada followed the procedure laid down in the Ukrainian constitution to impeach and remove a president from power.
Article 108 of the Ukraine constitution has four circumstances whereby a President can be replaced, the powers of the President of Ukraine terminate prior to the expiration of term in cases of:
2) inability to exercise his or her powers for reasons of health;
3) removal from office by the procedure of impeachment;
The procedure, laid down in Article 111 of the constitution, is not unlike that required for the impeachment and removal from power of a US president, which could take months.
Thus, Article 111 obliges the Rada to establish a special investigatory commission to formulate charges against the president, seek evidence to justify the charges and come to conclusions about the president’s guilt for the Rada to consider.
Prior to a final vote to remove a president from power, it requires
(a) The Constitutional Court of Ukraine to review the case and certify that the constitutional procedure of investigation and consideration has been followed, and
(b) The Supreme Court of Ukraine must certify that the acts of which the President is accused are worthy of impeachment.
The Rada didn’t follow this procedure at all. No investigatory commission was established and the Courts were not involved. On 22 February 2014, the Rada simply passed a bill removing President Yanukovych from office.
Furthermore, the bill wasn’t even supported by three quarters of the members of the Rada, as required by Article 111 for the removal of a president from office – it was supported by 328 members, when it required 338 (since the Rada has 450 members).
Justifying UK support for the new regime in Kiev in the House of Commons on 4 March 2014, the Foreign Secretary said:
“Former President Yanukovych left his post and then left the country, and the decisions on replacing him with an acting President were made by the Rada, the Ukrainian Parliament, by the very large majorities required under the constitution, including with the support of members of former President Yanukovych’s party, the Party of Regions, so it is wrong to question the legitimacy of the new authorities.”
The Ukrainian President had not resigned, he is still the legitimate President of Ukraine, therefore the Foreign Secretary’s statement was a calculated deception of the House of Commons, designed to give the impression that the procedure prescribed in the Ukrainian constitution for the removal of a president from office had been followed, when it hadn’t.
Because this statement was fundamentally wrong can I be assured that the Foreign Secretary will tell the House of Commons at the earliest opportunity, and through them the British people, that the statement he made on 4th March 2014, was false.
I await your response
Regards Harry Law.
Posted by: harrylaw | Apr 13, 2014 1:20:13 PM | 9
"Out of the loop" are 'b' and somebody (7). The full text 'somebody' delivered reads:
"The OSCE Special Monitoring Mission plays and must continue to play a
crucial role in actively observing and reporting about these developments and thus contributing to prevent a further escalation of the situation. ... The EU commends the Ukrainian authorities for pursuing their law and order operations in a measured way, in order to establish the authority of the state"
Means: 'While the Kiev putschist can't just do nothing without failing the authority we want them to have, they have to exert it in our mission to keep Ukraine together'
And further on:
"I encourage the government in Kyiv to contribute further to reducing tensions and call upon
Ukraine to ensure free and fair Presidential elections on 25 May ...The EU looks forward to the work of Verkhovna Rada on constitutional reform, through an inclusive process and with the support of the Council of Europe,
including its Venice Commission."
So Aston wants Porochenko elected (that isn't possible when there is civil war) and she wants the constitutional reform done under tutelage of the EU. That is all she can say without confronting the White House and State Department right in the face.
So this blog (and 'somebody's remark) are willingly or by ignorance a psy-op in favor of Ashton and EU aiming at the people here thinking in the days to come "Oh, thanks God, it didn't come as bad as we feard or expected the other day". Classic propaganda trick, if it isn't done inadvertantly.
Posted by: TomGard | Apr 13, 2014 1:53:09 PM | 10
Bullshit artist "somebody" has a busy day ahead of him - just a few minutes ago, he was claiming that news that the Turchinov was sending the army east to crush protests was "old news" and "did not really take place". But it is clear that a massacre is about to happen.
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 1:57:26 PM | 11
The report of Brennan's visit seems bogus, which is a pity because the guy is incompetent and ineffectual, which is what the world needs from the US.
As to Ashton, the Blairite employed by the EU, the odds are that she is looking for money making opportunities. Or perhaps, simply, seeking some attention since she is not only powerless but notoriously subservient to the US State Department- a female Ban Ki Moon.
What may be significant is the announced visit of Joe Biden making Kiev his next stop in the campaign for the Democratic nomination in 2016. It seems reasonable that he should be accompanied by something other than ignominy and deceit: perhaps he will announce willingness to negotiate, a States Rights view of the Constitution, or, in sharp contradistinction, a US military mission to "train" and "advise" the local fascists.
Harry, I love the letter: "Don't be Vague, Write to Hague."
Posted by: bevin | Apr 13, 2014 2:06:40 PM | 12
"somebody" keeps trying to give people visions of a washed up and hated Yanukovich being imposed, forcefully, by Russia onto the Ukraine while at the same time denying the threat posed by the coup government.
This is obviously not the situation at all. The fact of the matter is clear - the coup government, prodded by the CIA, is preparing to launch the kind of violent operation that it always - wrongly - accused Yanukovich of launching.
I think the West has underestimated Russia's resolve in this matter and should be very careful. My guess - we are about to see a replay of the confrontational scenario we just saw in Syria. The question is - will NATO again blink? Or will we be dragged into war?
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 2:08:40 PM | 13
"But it is clear that a massacre is about to happen."
I suppose it might be better to say - "It is clear that the coup government would like a massacre to happen." I don't believe they can pull it off without starting a genuine war.
The country is too divided to hang together. We are likely witnessing the birth of the new, landlocked, rump state of Banderastan, when all is said and done.
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 2:14:48 PM | 14
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 1:57:26 PM | 11
? don't see it yet, just threats and a war of nerves.
re Yanukovich, I think it is possible not to take sides in this stupidity.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 13, 2014 2:28:17 PM | 15
I think the West has underestimated Russia's resolve in this matter and should be very careful.
Not the West, the Khazar bought and paid for West politicians. This is all part of their quest for a new empire. For the Khazars, this April 14-15 are meant to be mystical days. Let's see what happens.
Posted by: hans | Apr 13, 2014 2:31:39 PM | 16
@15 Sure, it's all threats and war of nerves until someone starts shooting.
If it is possible not to take sides, then you ought to do so, instead of suggesting that Russia is going to impose a hated imbecile onto the Ukraine by force of arms, and that clear threats from the coup government are "old news".
This is not "stupidity". Only someone living a comfortable life in the west could even imagine to say something so ignorant.
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 2:50:29 PM | 18
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 2:50:29 PM | 18
Frankly I don't think he is a hated imbecile.
He got elected in free and fair elections - remember?
Posted by: somebody | Apr 13, 2014 2:54:32 PM | 19
This vineyerd of the saker seems to have the most sober analysis I can find.
Posted by: par4 | Apr 13, 2014 2:56:03 PM | 20
The question is - will NATO again blink? Or will we be dragged into war?
My guess is that you're not American, since you refer to NATO as "we". An American would never do that. To an American, the only "we" is Americans; NATO is seen as just another international institution controlled by USG.
I am American, and I can assure you that the US military (and that means NATO in this case) will never allow politicians to get the US into a shooting war with Russia, unless Russia directly attacked US forces or assets. (So Pragma's talk about Russia sinking US battleships was insane.)
This is not to say that a civil war can't erupt in the Ukraine. But NATO would not get involved in such a war. The most it would do is aid the Ukrainian fascists to the same degree that the CIA is aiding the Islamist terrorists in Syria. (It has already aided Chechen terrorists, who operate in Russia itself.)
On a different note, Saker has an English translation of an open letter to President Putin signed by German intellectuals and politicians.
It is well worth reading. I would say that to the degree that they know Russia, all people of the West—other than the Poles, Latvians, Estonians, and Lithuanians, and to a certain degree the English—love Russia and hate the USG.
Posted by: Demian | Apr 13, 2014 3:10:25 PM | 21
Kiev/NATO/US/EU cannot win, sure they can massacre people but that wont stop resistance.
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 13, 2014 3:17:18 PM | 22
21) Let's say we don't take sides.
European press is downright sympathetic to the Donetsk protesters, as far as I can see noone buys the line this is done by Russian "polite green men", they describe it as popular uprising - eg the Guardian
Back at the Donetsk occupation, the hundreds of supporters who have gathered each day are a small number of the city's nearly one million residents. But if the 100,000-plus employees of coalmining enterprises were to rise en masse, that would change the political picture drastically, in a similar fashion to the Donbass miners' strikes that helped bring about the breakup of the Soviet Union.
"It's hard to arouse the miners, but when you do, there will be trouble," said Artyom, a former miner who was guarding the administration building on Friday night. "If the miners all rise up, it will be an economic, physical and moral blow. It will be hard for everyone."
Protesters have declared the administration building a "people's republic". In the neighbouring coalmining region of Luhansk, the "army of the south-east", a group of armed men, including former Berkut riot police who fought protesters in Kiev, has occupied the security service headquarters and demanded a referendum. The protesters want economic and political independence from Kiev and many support a federalisation of the country. But they have also called on Russia to send in peacekeeping forces.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 13, 2014 3:20:06 PM | 23
I qualified my remark with to the degree they know Russia. You obviously don't know Russia, and I don't think you know Germany, either.
Posted by: Demian | Apr 13, 2014 3:23:43 PM | 24
The REAL crisis in the Ukraine is economic:
What about the European partners? Instead of offering Ukraine real support, there is talk about a declaration of intent. There are only promises that are not backed by any real actions. The European Union is using Ukraine’s economy as a source of raw foodstuffs, metal and mineral resources, and at the same time, as a market for selling its highly-processed ready-made commodities (machine engineering and chemicals), thereby creating a deficit in Ukraine’s trade balance amounting to more than 10 billion US dollars. This comes to almost two-thirds of Ukraine’s overall deficit for 2013.
To a large extent, the crisis in Ukraine’s economy has been precipitated by the unbalanced trade with the EU member states, and this, in turn has had a sharply negative impact on Ukraine’s fulfillment of its contractual obligations to pay for deliveries of natural gas supplied by Russia. Gazprom neither has intentions except for those stipulated in the 2009 contract nor plans to set any additional conditions. This also concerns the contractual price for natural gas, which is calculated in strict accordance with the agreed formula. However, Russia cannot and should not unilaterally bear the burden of supporting Ukraine’s economy by way of providing discounts and forgiving debts, and in fact, using these subsidies to cover Ukraine’s deficit in its trade with the EU member states. - Vladimir Putin, 'President Vladimir Putin's letter to leaders of European countries. Full text', 10 April 2012.
And it's the collapsing economy that's driving the neo-fascist backlash (supported as always by the ruling political class). With no apparent progressive alternative on the horizon, the omens are ominous.
Posted by: William Bowles | Apr 13, 2014 3:25:26 PM | 25
Posted by: Demian | Apr 13, 2014 3:23:43 PM | 24
I know Germany. Several German generations were split by the cold war and knew that a hot war would take place and destroy the very country they live in.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 13, 2014 3:29:54 PM | 26
From your Guardian link, i think this comment sums it up good.
"Colin Ball Ro Jugo
12 April 2014 10:16pm
Ukraine crisis in a nutshell:
1. West plants seed of coup, spends $5bn.
2. Nazi opposition organise riots and snipers, kill people.
3. Ukraine president flees for life, asks for Russias help.
4. Nazis appoint themselves as new govt, ban Russian as language.
5. Russian speaking Crimea fears persecution, holds referendum.
6. Crimeans vote to join Russia, Russia endorses result.
7. West furious that their NATO and Black Sea plans are foiled.
8. West demonises Russia, imposes sanctions.
9. Russia laughs.
10. South and East Ukraine want what's good for the Gander."
Although I dont agree that europe are sympathetic to the protests, ALOT blames Russia without any proof, why? Well NATO and our God OBama said so..sigh.
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 13, 2014 3:33:31 PM | 27
These high-profile interceptions, arrests, etc., of right-wing "useful idiots" may well be decoys to divert attention while the Serious Guys (Neocon-mandated UNA/Gladio forces with a lot of Blackwater/Greystone mercenary backing) manoeuvre quietly into place, ready to instigate third-force activities when the time comes. And those saying rather naively that Bw mercenaries can be spotted by speaking poor Russian/speaking with an American accent etc. should realise that they draw on a pool from just about everywhere, including jihadists as well as Canadian Ukrainians bearing grudges based on distorted invented memories.
As much as the right-wing "rabble" may be a menace, they are being used by forces far more powerful they have no even a notion about. Sasha White was very much in this vein: a useful idiot (both in life and death). The serious threat comes from the Far West, the Noodles, Cheneys and other deep-statists, who know exactly what they are about.
Without falling into a mode of paralysing mutual suspicion, people should be very, very cautious and alert to third force.
Posted by: Brod | Apr 13, 2014 4:03:12 PM | 29
What about Kharkov and Sloveniyza (spelling?) Thats the issue isnt it?
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 13, 2014 4:06:25 PM | 30
Demian, your assumptions of what "an American" would and what "an American" would never do is just another on the pile of things you seem to have wrong.
I am an American citizen, living in the US, and I am well aware that my country drives NATO to do things it would never have the inclination to do if its sole purpose was the defense of western Europe.
I also know that the US military does as it is told, although it may have a few dissenters. The idea that the US military are a bunch of peaceniks who stand up to the civilians and decide which wars they will and will not fight is ludicrous.
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 4:34:58 PM | 31
Posted by: b | Apr 12, 2014 3:00:31 PM | 131
"@scalawag @Rowan Berkeley: I don't want your comments here anymore. Go elsewhere."
WTF? Not man enough to handle criticism? I probably shouldn't be surprised, I've never come across a Jewish zionist who could handle criticism, like a man.
Posted by: scalawag | Apr 13, 2014 4:36:00 PM | 32
ok German FAZ tries rewrite history against their commenters - every few days they retry and then give in -
Russia threatens Germany
- no historically it has been the other way round
anyway - more tax money is needed to rearm ...
Posted by: somebody | Apr 13, 2014 4:45:55 PM | 33
Youre going to get banned if you insult B, dude. Its not like he hasnt done it before.
Posted by: Massinissa | Apr 13, 2014 5:05:48 PM | 34
Link to the FAZ article, please?
Posted by: Demian | Apr 13, 2014 5:07:20 PM | 35
Posted by: Demian | Apr 13, 2014 5:07:20 PM | 35
It is a complete rewrite of history - here it is
Posted by: somebody | Apr 13, 2014 5:21:42 PM | 36
"The REAL crisis in the Ukraine is economic:"
That's standard claim of the Western liberals, like the narrative that US/UK aggression against Iraq (and subsequent murder of approximately a million of Iraqis) has been because of oil?
An economy is part of equation, an important one, but not the decisive one.
Posted by: neretva'43 | Apr 13, 2014 5:29:53 PM | 37
The Economist - The disappearing country
THE KIEV authorities' hold on Donbas and much of the wider region of eastern Ukraine has disappeared. President Oleksandr Turchynov had said that a military operation was imminent and that anyone who left the seized buildings by 6.00 am on April 14th would not be prosecuted. But by nightfall, as fog covered the Donbas, it was clear that no concerted government action to take back the region was under way. The region’s police appear to have defected en masse to the pro-Russian side. Police buildings in the town of Sloviansk and Kramatorsk fell to armed men on April 12th and there were reports of other municipal buildings being taken elsewhere. A Ukrainian security services operation to restore authority in Sloviansk failed. Military or police helicopters flew over town and unconfirmed sources said crowds prevented them from landing.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 13, 2014 5:32:10 PM | 38
Thanks. That's what I thought you meant. It is so absurd—as many readers noted—that I didn't bother reading the whole thing.
I think you should have made clear to people who can't read German that it is just an op-ed. To be fair to the FAZ, it the German establishment newspaper, and we know from the behavior of EU politicians that much of the German elite is following the USG in taking an extremist anti-Russian line. So the expression of this line in the op-ed page of the FAZ is only to be expected.
I must admit though that the very concept Russlandverstehern is incredibly condescending and, given Germany's past, borders on Nazi ideology. But this just brings me back to my impression that what many Germans took away from the Nazi experience is that when Germans do what the Nazis did it is very bad, but when the US and Britain do it, it is perfectly acceptable.
You are obviously not one of those Germans, so I apologize for my saying before that you don't understand Germany. :-)
Since my parents grew up in Latvia, my father in Riga, in which the two main influences are Russian and German (the Latvian influence is insignificant, because the Latvians, like the Ukrainians, were essentially all peasants: the Latvian language would have died away had a German pastor not written down their folk stories), I am obsessed with Germany and Russia having good relations, as you may have noticed.
By the way, do you know of a German news Web site that reports events in the Ukraine from a more or less realitätsbezogen (i.e., Russian) point of view? Der Zpiegel and die Süddeutsche are supposed to be left-of-center, but I have found their reporting to be more or less the same as the FAZ's.
Also: do German cable TV viewers get RT?
Posted by: Demian | Apr 13, 2014 5:47:53 PM | 39
scalawag it really doesn't matter what you claim. The important thing is to preserve this blog as a free forum of opinion, focused on analysis of Washington's attempts to impose its hegemony on the world.
And your, unsubstantiated, claims to be able to trace all manner of events to the evil machinations of a single religio-ethnic group are a distraction and an embarassment.
To put it plainly your obsession with Jews is demented.
Clearly "b" is reluctant to ban anyone from commenting. He bends over backwards to make this as open a forum as he can, all he requests is that we behave in his Whisky Bar as we would be expected to in any other public place.
Perhaps you have never visited a bar, and you intoxicate yourself at home?
If you had you would understand that people who stand in the corner shouting out insults at 'niggers', 'limeys', 'kikes' or 'prods' are usually asked to go elsewhere.
That is all that is being asked of you. No doubt when you learn to behave yourself and to stop offending others, without cause or reason, you will be welcome to return.
In the meantime spare us the "martyr for free speech" bullshit.
Posted by: bevin | Apr 13, 2014 5:50:15 PM | 40
Posted by: bevin | Apr 13, 2014 5:50:15 PM | 40
"To put it plainly your obsession with Jews is demented...If you had you would understand that people who stand in the corner shouting out insults at 'niggers', 'limeys', 'kikes' or 'prods' are usually asked to go elsewhere."
You are plainly divorced from reality and insult just to insult for personal reasons. Was my comment about that Russian writer that traumatic for you? I suggest you check into your local mental health facility and get some psychological counseling.
Posted by: scalawag | Apr 13, 2014 6:12:16 PM | 41
I can't believe that Biden is being sent to Ukraine. The man is famous for stepping on his own dick.
Posted by: Gareth | Apr 13, 2014 6:20:46 PM | 42
unsubstantiated, claims to be able to trace all manner of events to the evil machinations of a single religio-ethnic group
From a comment at the Saker, apparently by a Russian in Russia:
This "crackdown" appears to be the work of Israel/USA/EU using their quislings for PR purposes, but for all intents and purposes, led by professionals in the western military/security services.
I was impressed that Israel did not vote in the UN General Assembly resolution on the Crimea, and I think that means something. Maybe I'm naive, but I think Israel wants to maintain good relations with Russia. (It's completely different with American neocons, of course.) It's true that at least one Ukrainian Israeli mercenary was involved in Maidan, but I don't think that the Israeli government had significant involvement. As Sybil Edwards has shown, the CIA funded and ran Chechen terrorists in Russia. I have never heard that there was any Israeli government involvement in that. And I don't see why the Ukraine should be any different.
A lot of Israelis are from Russia, and it's quite possible that some of them suspect that the RF will outlast the US.
I'd love to know what kinds of relations the FSB and Mosad have. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some such relations go on behind the US's back.
Posted by: Demian | Apr 13, 2014 6:28:53 PM | 43
one advantge of being in power in US is youer free to do and say whatever you like...even contradict yourself, and no other authority or media will criticise you.
Posted by: brian | Apr 13, 2014 6:32:42 PM | 44
Posted by: Gareth | Apr 13, 2014 6:20:46 PM | 42
thats one stupid lowbrow comment
Posted by: brian | Apr 13, 2014 6:33:19 PM | 45
Demian 43 Maybe I'm naive, but I think Israel wants to maintain good relations with Russia.
I agree completely. I recall when Serbia was being demonized in the late 90s in international forums, the Israelis abstained on critical motions. I attributed that to two reasons: First they remained grateful to the many Serbian partisans during WWII who opened an underground railroad for Jews escaping the Nazi death machine and second they valued their relationship with Russia.
Posted by: ToivoS | Apr 13, 2014 7:30:24 PM | 46
@45 Low brow? maybe.
Completely dead on accurate? definitely.
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 7:40:08 PM | 47
bevin, I thought I know every derogatory term there is, but what in gods name is a "prod"?
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 7:41:35 PM | 48
In Ireland, I believe "Prod" is a derogatory way to refer to Protestants. This is one Irish-American who has not heard that term used in decades.
Posted by: lysias | Apr 13, 2014 8:07:54 PM | 49
What about Tom Perkins who I believe compared criticism of the super-rich to the Holocaust?
Posted by: Phantastron | Apr 13, 2014 9:26:02 PM | 51
OT - but very worthwhile:
Talk by Alfred McCoy, PhD, on the "Surveillance State: Philippine Pacification & the Making of the U.S. Internal Security Apparatus" given April 23, 2010 and sponsored by the SE Asia Center at the Jackson School at the University of WA.
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 9:30:13 PM | 52
"Prod" is a derogatory way to refer to Protestants. This is one Irish-American who has not heard that term used in decades.
It has not been used for 50 years because the raison d’être
of the Protestant edifice, destruction of the one hated Church, was consummated at the Second Vatican Council 50 years ago. There is no Church left to hate, so the word is discarded as pretty well meaningless.
Posted by: Michaël | Apr 13, 2014 9:33:03 PM | 53
@ Posted by: Michaël | Apr 13, 2014 9:33:03 PM | 53
Speaking as somebody whose family background is Northern Irish Catholic and who has just got back from visiting relatives who live in the Ardoyne allow me to inform you that that comment is even more of a lie and even more full of shit than your usual demented babbling.
"Prod", "proddy", "left-footer", "Brit", and all the other terms of hatred, contempt, and abuse historically used by Irish Catholics in particular Northern Irish Catholics — the ones who live in the six counties still under armed occupation by Protestant British colonists, are in use every day. I realise that for a besotted monomaniac such as yourself being called on your remarkably stupid lies might be a little disconcerting but offer it up for Holy Week. Better yet do your Christian duty and shut the fuck up for Holy Week and any week that has a Friday in it.
Posted by: Dubhaltach | Apr 13, 2014 10:33:12 PM | 54
Here's a fairly decent American report:
Inside a Russian-Occupied Police Station in [the] Ukraine
The author says that the people in the Sloviansk police station "are undoubtedly professionally trained, and though they wear no military insignias, they are clearly soldiers. They carry automatic weapons and wear full army fatigues. They are professional, organized, and ready to fight."
The Obama regime and NATO claim that Russian forces are operating inside the Ukraine. But how would Russia have gotten them into the Ukraine? It's not as if the two countries have an open border.
I think it's quite possible that the RF got intelligence types into eastern Ukraine and that the latter are organizing the resistance to the fascists. The actions of the Ukrainian resistance appear to have gotten significantly more organized this weekend than they were before. But Western officials can hardly take offense at Russian intelligence giving a little help to their Ukrainian brothers.
Posted by: Demian | Apr 13, 2014 10:47:07 PM | 55
John Brennan fired?! Not yet, he had to bake some Nuland cakes in Kiev!
Posted by: JSorrentine | Apr 13, 2014 10:56:41 PM | 56
"The armed men that form the “self-defense” units here are not just militia carrying bat; they are undoubtedly professionally trained, and though they wear no military insignias, they are clearly soldiers. They carry automatic weapons and wear full army fatigues. They are professional, organized, and ready to fight."
Basic training and conscription are or were, until recently, universal in eastern Europe. So most men, of a certain age, are indeed professionally trained.
As to whether they are soldiers, it would be interesting to hear an explanation for this conclusion. One suspects that they might be industrial workers or miners, accustomed to working together.
As to the "automatic weapons" almost all weapons this side of the museum are "automatic" or semi-automatic, which I suspect is what the Beast means.
As to "full army fatigues" these vary, or used to from army to army, and most of them seem to end up in surplus stores, sources of cheap clothing for workers everywhere.
I wouldn't trust the Daily Beast, whose editor is a notorious neo-con groupie, futher than I could throw the Empire State Building. The same goes for The Guardian, where a reptile called Meek is exhaling slime for money today.
The people who brought us Libya, Iraq, Syria and much much more are having another propaganda offensive today: they are desperate for blood. They love the Ukrainians so much they want them to kill each other: the Maidan promotion wasn't bloody enough for them.
scalawag @41. I have no idea what Russian writer you are referring to. Do not delude yourself: I have better things to do with my eyes than subject them to your inanities.
Posted by: bevin | Apr 13, 2014 11:10:43 PM | 57
A Short History of Psychological Terror
Alfred McCoy, Professor of History at the University of Wisconsin, explores the history and use by the CIA of psychological torture in terms of how this particular form of torture was discovered, perfected and made legal. Series: "Voices" [3/2007] [Public Affairs] [Humanities] [Show ID: 12279]
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 11:14:19 PM | 58
@Demian | 43
Maybe I'm naive, but I think Israel wants to maintain good relations with Russia. (It's completely different with American neocons, of course.) It's true that at least one Ukrainian Israeli mercenary was involved in Maidan, but I don't think that the Israeli government had significant involvement.
* Entire leadership of Ukrainian opposition (outside of neonazis) are of Jewish heritage: Klychko, Timoshenko and Yasceniuk.
* Oligarch who funded Maidan are Jewish.
* It wasnt one but five ex-IDF soldiers who were running armed thugs in Maidan.
* Ukrainian rabbis fully supported coup.
* Western countries under heavy Jewish and/or Zionists influence (not mutually exclusive, often one and the same) organized attack on Ukraine.
Do you think its all coincidences? Whether Israel itself is involved or not we dont know, but there is no question of World-wide network of Zionists and Jewish elite involvement.
I would suspect Israel abstaining from vote and keeping silent has more to do with desire to have a cake and eat it too. They want to keep appearances of good relationships with Russia or its main benefactor US, but in reality Jewish elite couldnt care less about them. How many times Israel betrayed, backstabbed, or even bombed US targets? They even blackmailed US with nukes - and thats the friendliest country to Israel in the World.
Therefore what to speak of Russia.. if there is any benefit for Israel in Ukrainian crisis, you can bet your bottom dollar Israel is involved.
Posted by: Harry | Apr 13, 2014 11:20:54 PM | 59
The Ukrainian fascists need to start getting comfortable with the idea that their future state will be small and landlocked.
It is almost a biblical story, the story of the Ukrainian oligarchy. An entire rich country, almost the largest in Europe, fell into their hands without a fight. In the following decades, they were handed billions of dollars while their countrymen were handed tragedy and poverty - but that wasn't enough for them. It's never enough for them.
But the more the oligarchs fight for power and profits, the more their country slips away, piece by piece - first Crimea, soon the Donbas? Does Poland want a piece? And next... who knows?
Soon the oligarchs of Ukraine - the Klitsckos, the Tymoschenkos, the Yats/Rats, et al - will find themselves fighting over nothing at all.
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 11:27:59 PM | 60
An interesting aspect of the current events in the east, including the Full Court Press propaganda, is that, from the NATO/Svoboda point of view things are dangerously close to being resolved peacefully.
Just as the day after the EU and Russia agreed to a truce and an interim government on Feb 22 the snipers got to work to torpedo the agreement and give the fascists their feast of blood; so the "government's" provocations in the east are designed to ensure that Tuesday's planned talks between Russia and the US don't take place.
NATO etc don't want peace, federalism and a solution to pressing problems, they want more tension, more killing and more opportunities for the fascists to impose economic chaos on the plain people of Ukraine. And pull down a few more statues, of course.
Posted by: bevin | Apr 13, 2014 11:29:55 PM | 61
@55 Regarding The Daily Beast article. The headline says something that Patrikarakos never gives any evidence for:
Inside a Russian-Occupied Police Station in Ukraine
Posted by: ess emm | Apr 13, 2014 11:37:05 PM | 62
But I don't see a benefit for Israel from the Ukrainian crisis. Sure, if it saw a benefit, it would get involved. I think Israel is just behaving as a rational actor here, hedging its bets between the US and the RF.
I don't deny that all the Jews you mention are on the side of the coup regime.
As for Yatsenyuk being Jewish, that is something I have wondered about. Going to Wikipedia (which is terminally infested with Ukrainian nationalist fanatics when it comes to articles on the Ukraine), I saw that the section on his ethnic background is completely blank, because there is a dispute about it lol. The Talk page however cites a Guardian article which notes:
[Yatsenyuk] has played down his Jewish-Ukrainian origins, possibly because of the prevalence of antisemitism in his party's western Ukraine heartland.
I think we can trust the Guardian on this, even if the crazies at Wikipedia say that "English language sources… are not known for fact-checking (i.e. The Guardian)." Evidently, if you are Ukrainian, only Ukrainian language sources can be trusted. These Nazis can't face the likely fact that the Jew Nuland made another Jew their Prime Minister.
Posted by: Demian | Apr 13, 2014 11:51:31 PM | 63
I was watching a forum where they were discussing the destruction of war monuments in Yugoslavia - apparently it was extremely common there as well.
I do see that this can be solved peacefully, but I don't see how it can be solved with the political status quo. Ukraine will either break up, or there will be violence to repress one side or the other. But one big happy Ukraine is not going to happen.
And I imagine we'll know by the end of the week which it is to be.
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 13, 2014 11:55:22 PM | 64
What is amazing is watching the narrative turn on a dime on Twitter. The fact that now we are seeing the stories and jokes with the actors completely transposed - now the Maidanists are cracking wise about "peaceful protestors" and what not.
Its so fast people have to notice, right? Wait - will the internet teach humans about their innate hypocrisy and inherent selfishness?!?
Yeah, probably not.
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 14, 2014 12:04:57 AM | 65
"Ukraine will either break up, or there will be violence to repress one side or the other. But one big happy Ukraine is not going to happen."
You are probably right but the Russian idea of a federal system would be practicable. The problem has been that every time the pro EU right gets close to power it wants to make irrevocable decisions that cancel out the natural, demographic right of the Russian oriented easterners to share power.
The EU forces fear federalism, democracy and time: they want to cash in the residue of anti-Soviet feeling combined with cargo cult US/EU worship before Ukrainians wake up and realise that the west doesn't love them, it wants to devour them. Wake up Ukraine that aint love in their eyes, it's greed!
After all, the only time there ever was an autonomous Ukraine it was a Federal Soviet Republic.
Posted by: bevin | Apr 14, 2014 12:10:00 AM | 66
@66 It's like that Twilight Zone episode where the martians come down and offer humanity all these wonderful things and begin gathering people onto their ships to take them to their paradise planet. They even give the US President a book with the title To Serve Man. And it ends with a scene of people lining up to get on these ships and when the humans finally translate the contents you hear: "STOP! To Serve Man... is a cookbook!"
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 14, 2014 12:24:32 AM | 67
Of course we hear nothing of Right Sektor or Saschko Bily anymore. Clearly Yarosh has bigger things on his mind than his dead comrades - his political future. Right Sektor turns out to be a sham just like Maidan. A vehicle for Yarosh's entry into the Ukrainian oligarchy, nothing more.
Turchinov, the "president" of Kiev junta, proposed the leading oligarchs to be the heads of Regional State Administrations. Oligarch Kolomoyskiyhas already agreed to be the governor of Dnepropetrovsk region. The similar positions were also offered to such oligarhs as Taruta and Yaroslavskiy. The richest oligarch Akhmetov supported the candidature of oligarch Taruta that was promoted to the position of the head of Donetskregion.
Class nature of the new authority is being revealed, therefore. The illusions of Maidan are being dispelled. Apart from the control over economics,the oligarchs are being offered the direct administrative control over the country. "Borotba" union has warned that oligarchs are both customers and sponsors of the whole process of Maidan movement. And they are ready now to "gather in the crops”.
Ukraine is not a commodity! The answer of the popular movement to such an attempt to transfer the power - should be the slogan of ‘NATIONALIZATION OF OLIGARCHY'S PROPERTY’!
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 14, 2014 12:28:54 AM | 68
Ha'aretz: U.S. officials angry: Israel doesn’t back stance on Russia
White House and State Department officials in Washington have built up a great deal of anger over Jerusalem's "neutrality" regarding Russia's invasion of the Crimean Peninsula. Senior figures in the Obama administration have expressed great disappointment with the lack of support from Israel for the American position on the Ukraine crisis and with the fact that the Israeli government puts its relations with the United States and with Russia on the same plane.
One senior U.S. official noted that one of the reasons for the anger in the White House was Israel's absence from the UN General Assembly vote about two weeks ago on a resolution censuring the Russian invasion and expressing support for the territorial integrity of Ukraine.
“We have been consulting closely on Ukraine not only with our partners and allies around the world," a senior U.S. official told Haaretz. "Obviously we are looking to the entire international community to condemn Russia’s actions and to support Ukraine, so we were surprised to see that Israel did not join the large majority of countries that voted to support Ukraine’s territorial integrity at the United Nations.” […]
Adding more fuel to the flames in Washington were public remarks by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman in which they maintained their "neutrality" and failed to back up the United States.
"We have good and trusting relations with the Americans and the Russians, and our experience has been very positive with both sides. So I don't understand the idea that Israel has to get mired in this," Lieberman told Israel's Channel 9 television when asked about the Ukraine crisis.
When White House and State Department officials read these comments, they nearly went crazy. They were particularly incensed by Lieberman's mentioning Israel's relations with the United States and with Russia in the same breath, giving them equal weight. The United States gives Israel $3 billion a year in military aid, in addition to its constant diplomatic support in the UN and other international forums. Russia, on the other hand, supplies arms to Israel's enemies and votes against it regularly in the UN.
I love it.
Posted by: Demian | Apr 14, 2014 12:45:50 AM | 70
"So I don't understand the idea that Israel has to get mired in this"
Hey America: Israel's just not that into you.
Posted by: guest77 | Apr 14, 2014 1:00:29 AM | 71
71) One million Israelis immigrated from the former Soviet Union in the 1990's. Russia allows dual citizenship and former Russian/Soviet citizens can regain their citizenship if they wish. Of this million many will have come from Ukraine but it is unlikely they trust the politically correct attitude displayed by the fascist coalition partners. They emigrated for a reason.
German state ARD repeats its accusation that the Kyiv government does not want to find the Maidan snipers - in German.
Posted by: somebody | Apr 14, 2014 1:43:43 AM | 72
@Demian | 63
But I don't see a benefit for Israel from the Ukrainian crisis. Sure, if it saw a benefit, it would get involved. I think Israel is just behaving as a rational actor here, hedging its bets between the US and the RF.
* Israel tremendously benefits from EU and Russia tension, especially if gas/oil prices are high and EU is desperate for another supplier. Guess what? Israel is about to export gas and oil to EU soon.
* Israel hates that Russia is interfering with many of their plans in ME, in Syria and elsewhere. What better way to change it if not Russia's attention diverted to their own backyard?
Remember Saudis threat to Putin? If he didnt drop Syria's support, terrorists will be activated. Guess what happened soon after? Now imagine same play just on a grand scale - Ukraine as a failed state right on Russia borders, with rabid neonazis, Russia-hating jews and their sponsors from the West calling the shots? How about potential Civil war? As important as Syria is, whats happening in Ukraine is by far and away more important to Russia.
* Israel always wanted Ukrainian Jews to emigrate to Israel, and this will likely happen if situation continues to deteriorate.
I'm sure there are more reasons, but what I quoted is already enough to put "no benefit for Israel" to rest.
And sorry, but to call Israel "a rational actor" is a massive stretch, an oxymoron. Their leadership is certifiably insane and war criminals, and considering they keep getting voted in, I would question sanity of Israeli Jews as well.
Posted by: Harry | Apr 14, 2014 2:22:47 AM | 73
I think Jews and Russians understand each other pretty well. I am speaking as an ethnically Russian person who was born in Long Island and spent his childhood there, and then went to a college where a substantial portion of the student body is Jewish. During this time most of my girlfriends were Jewish, because I could relate to them, whereas I could make no sense of American Protestants or Catholics, while I wanted nothing to do with Russian American girls, since I would have viewed a relationship with them as incestuous.
The point I am trying to make is that I think that Russians can see through the games that Jews play, and that Jews know that. So whereas Zionists and Jews in general operate totally over the heads of American gentiles, Jews can't manipulate Russians, so that Jews and Russians have to cooperate as equals, in terms of mutual interest.
I really think that the Israelis respect Russia, whereas they see the United States as composed of ignorant, easily manipulable idiots, to be exploited until their empire is bled dry. Anglo Americans cannot understand Jews, but Russians can, because Russia is the original and only authentic European multicultural society. (Echoes of the Saker and Alexander Dugin here; sorry.)
I agree that the leadership of Israel is certifiably insane when it comes to their Middle Eastern neighbors, but I do think that Israel is a rational actor when it comes to major world powers.
As for Israel exporting gas and oil to the EU: Israel is a tiny country. That sounds as much of a fantasy to me as the idea that the US is going to export gas to Europe by fracking itself into a no man's land.
Posted by: Demian | Apr 14, 2014 3:01:45 AM | 74
Who does this?
Keep throwing eggs and youll see what happens, I guess its not eggs that will fall from Russia if you keep threatening them, stupid facists.
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 14, 2014 4:36:34 AM | 75
Demian # 74. I have to agree with that comment. There are 1.5 million Russians living in Israel today. It makes absolutely no sense that Israel would antagonize Russia. It seems obvious that Israel would love to see the 200,000 Ukrainian Jews move to Israel though it is not likely to happen especially if that might interfere with Israel's connection to Russia. The ultra right Lieberman, who may very well become the PM after Netanyahu, has close contacts with Russia.
I do know that there are many Israelis (Russian origins) that continue to visit their relatives in Russia. Those two countries have close ties. Israel is not just a pawn of US imperialism (even if the US might be a pawn of the Zionist when it comes to US ME policy).
If Lieberman can convince the Russians to support Israel's efforts to seize the West Bank then that might become another alliance. I have no idea if that will happen, since most of the money supporting Israel comes from the US, but that is one card that Israel should be playing.
In any case, it is not an option that Israel will cut.
Posted by: ToivoS | Apr 14, 2014 5:05:24 AM | 76
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 14, 2014 4:36:34 AM | 75
Who does this?
Listen to the universal timbre in the background,
will never be defeated.”
This reveals the leaders at least of the “Ukrainian” egg throwers as secretly/discretely coordinated Goy hating hunchbacks who provoked/led the whole Maidan thing in the first place, and who routinely call their victims “fascists.” The observable difference from the Orange Rev of ten years ago is that this time the Talmudists used the Ukrainian flag—because the orange one became so recognizably alien.
Posted by: Michaël | Apr 14, 2014 5:44:45 AM | 77
I have also been thinking about the stories that Israel & US are at loggerheads. These stories arise all the time, in relation to each new, ostensibly US-led international crime. They arose in relation to Syria, most recently. Lengthy and turgid "evaluations" and "sitreps" appeared in the Israeli press. Grizzled, retired IDF chiefs of staff and Shin Bet (or even Mossad) directors appeared obediently to ruminate upon the supposed differences between US and Israeli policy. Of course, nothing any of them say rises above the level of the banal and obvious, but that's true of most popular press "analysis". Personally, I just dismiss all these stories as trivial titillation for those readers who hate one country or the other or both. I think that much Jewish journalism is designed at least partly to be read by a hostile audience, to distract or misdirect it in one way or another. But in reality, I do not consider that it is meaningful to talk of a US policy as distinct from an Israeli one, because in my opinion Israeli policy overrides US policy whenever there is a serious mismatch. If you recall, it is my opinion that Israel blindsided the US by greenlighting the Sisi coup; I consider that Sisi found their encouragement sufficient to proceed with, neither expecting nor intending to pay attention to the US' preference, which was as you recall to support Morsi. And I could list other occasions where Israeli policy decisions have simply overridden US ones and nullified them.
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 14, 2014 6:17:10 AM | 78
Thinking that through somewhat further: there is a fundamental difference between the images that the US on the one hand and Israel on the other, project. The US is cast in the role (note how I put that) of imperial hegemon. It therefore has to make a great show of solicitude, now for one of its indirect subject groups, now for another, actually dividing and ruling them, but doing it in the most practical and cheapest way, namely by waffling about the "human rights" it is supposedly so determined to secure and protect for these various indirect subject groups. What I mean by this phrase is that it does not rule such groups directly, for if it did it would most certainly not pontificate about their "human rights"; one of the US' clients rules them. So it is playing the clients off against each other, and at the same time reinforcing its image as benevolent. Empires have done this, very publicly, since ancient times. Israel, on the other hand, wishes to project, and actually does project, the image of "a mad dog, too dangerous to bother," as Moshe Dayan once put it. So the supposed divergences in foreign policy are simply instances of image differentiation.
In any case, as you know, I would postulate one single global ruling class behind Israel, the US, etcetera. But without wanting to go into this contentious territory again, I would qualify that by saying that the various national 'branches' of this 'global ruling class' identify closely with the fortunes of the countries into which the diaspora has cast them, and often fight tooth and nail to resist the hegemonising and globalising force of the central ruling authority, whatever you may wish to call it. It's like the different branches of a single international banking house, run by brothers from the same dynastic banking family, but from time to time plunging quite deliberately into war amongst themselves, because one national branch refuses to be subordinated to another. To suggest that all of these people are possessed of some sort of implicit rapport such that they can just pretend to be disagreeing, while already having established a private agreement on the intended outcome, would be overstatement, because like the rest of us they are not in perfect rapport with one another, and they are quite capable of disliking one another intensely, or even hating each other. But the hegemonic, central force (or fund) will always win in the end, because it has more money than the rest, and so can literally buy more countries.
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 14, 2014 6:55:23 AM | 79
By the way, I just noticed little amir's post, directly above my two long ones. I haven't been reading all these threads, since I've heard all this before. Printing someone's home address would be an effective intimidatory tactic in some cases, but in my own case I have simply stopped paying attention to it. I mean, they shouldn't do it, it's obviously a grave breach of basic netiqette, especially when it's accompanied by implicit or explicit threats of violence, but in my case it's not very intimidating. If you knew what Hastings and environs are like, you would see why. They are policed to the hilt, saturated with police CCTV cameras, and really not JDF baseball bat gang territory.
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 14, 2014 7:13:07 AM | 80
But the hegemonic, central force (or fund) will always win in the end.
For instance, “Rothschild” names not a mighty powerful family of horrid banksters but only an echelon of globalism whose influence is obviously undiminished when a Rothschild, for instance, hangs himself.
Posted by: Michaël | Apr 14, 2014 7:31:08 AM | 83
hypocrisy is as american as apple pie
Posted by: brian | Apr 14, 2014 8:37:48 AM | 85
Thank you, bernhard, for removing the comment with my home address from this thread, where it was previously at #78. This is the third or fourth time they've pulled this "we know where you live" business on me. They're a terribly predictable bunch, alas.
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 14, 2014 8:50:30 AM | 86
Military column from 50 vehicles was blocked near the city Mariupol, Donetsk republic.
14.04.2014 00.04 a m by local time
The inhabitants of the village Volodarskoe, that near city Mariupol, Donetsk republic, blocking the way for military equipment. Near the dam were noticed about 50 vehicles including tanks, armored personnel carriers , rocket launchers ( GRAD ) and military vehicles .
Residents of the village Volodarskoe and the nearby villages blocked the way for military equipment by their cars , now to area continue to arrive more cars of villagers in order to prevent military to travel farther .
The movement for several roads of the village was paralyzed, not the military, nor the local cars can't to drive.
By the way, a little earlier column of military equipment were noticed near the village no Novokrasnovka of Volodarskogo district.
Video about same column made at evening of 13th April, 60 km away from city Mariupol.
Posted by: brian | Apr 14, 2014 8:58:09 AM | 88
Brian, I've got two issues I would like you to clarify, if you would:
(1) A body was dumped in a forest near Slavyansk yesterday morning or during the night before, presumably dressed up in Ukrainian SBU uniform, in order to be found by a Ukrainian army patrol after provocateurs staged a mock attack on their checkpoint nearby. At least, that’s how I read it. Do you agree?
(2) An apparent attempt to portray the storming by Ukrainian troops on Saturday of the Kramatorsk municipal buildings occupied by protestors, as being the exact opposite, viz, a storming of Ukrainian army occupants by militarily-organised rebels.
In the first case, multiple accounts are mutually contradictory and sometimes nonsensical, specifically on whose checkpoint it was. If it was a 'pro-Russian' checkpoint, then the story makes no sense: how would attacking a pro-Russian checkpoint lead the Ukrainian troops to rush into the forest and find a conveniently dumped body?
In the second case, we have a superb video, but despite that, the identities of the parties inside versus the parties attacking them seem to have become confused, at least in Reuters dispatches. I do not believe that a military formation of 'pro-Russian protestors' in uniform would storm a Kievian building with Kievian troops in it, certainly not by riddling it with indiscriminate live fire as these guys did:
The uniforms and weapons used in such operations may be either unmarked or obtained from captured stores belonging to the opposite side, to create a full-blown, literal false-flag event, but this particular event was merely ambiguous: the disinfo reversal of who was who may have happened by accident, but has now become a disinfo meme in its own right.
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 14, 2014 9:18:31 AM | 89
What the h*ll is this the only thing west have?
UK's Hague: No doubt that Russia behind unrest in Ukraine (Reuters
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 14, 2014 9:32:43 AM | 90
Ha! This is the money quote from the link in #91
Turchinov proposed a joint operation with UN peacekeeping forces in the east of the country in a phone call with Ban Ki-moon. Turchinov told Ban Ki-moon that Kiev’s new authorities would welcome “if, with your help, there will be conducted a joint anti-terrorist operation in the east of the country. Then, specialists and observers will be able to confirm the legitimacy and legality of our actions,” the press office of the Batkivshchyna party quoted Turchinov as saying. On his part, Ban Ki-moon said that Kiev could rely fully on help from the UN as its partner.
That's absolutely preposterous. Obviously, it would require a UNSCR to authorise it, and Russia would veto it. Does Turchinov imagine that by making this absurd propsal, he can cause the UNSC to deprive Russia of its veto power, in an extension of the recent move of kicking them out of the so-called Council of Europe (PACE)?
Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Apr 14, 2014 9:50:02 AM | 92
excellent article on ukraine
“People abandoned their homes and their villages, because there are no jobs. After the Soviet Union collapsed, the entire Ukraine has been falling apart… People are leaving and they are dying. Young people try to go abroad…. The government is not even supplying us with gas and drinking water, anymore. We have to use the local well, but the water is contaminated by fertilizers – it is not clean…”
“Was it better before?” I ask.
“How can you even ask? During the Soviet Union everything was better, much better! We all had jobs and there were decent salaries, pensions… We had all that we needed,” she answers.
Looking around me, I quickly recall that Ukraine is an absolute demographic disaster: even according to official statistics and censuses, the number of people living in this country fell from 48,457,102 in 2001 to 44,573,205 in 2013. Years after its “independence,” and especially those between 1999 and 2001, are often described as one of the worst demographic crises in modern world history. In 1991 the population of Ukraine was over 51.6 million!
Only those countries that are devastated by brutal civil wars are experiencing similar population decline.
The next day, in Kharkov, Sergei Kirichuk, leader of the left-wing Borotba (Struggle) movement, told me:
“People all over the world are fighting against the so-called “free market,” but in Ukraine, to bring it here, was the main reason for the ‘revolution.’ It is really hard to believe.”
Posted by: brian | Apr 14, 2014 10:06:54 AM | 93
Exactly, there people are really stupid, even Bank ki moon probably felt smart talking with them!
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 14, 2014 10:21:11 AM | 94
whatever is the US doing on that floor????????
Ukraine junta may spark civil war: Analyst
An accusation was made today by a member of parliament, formerly of the Party of Regions, that an entire floor of the state security building of the government in Kiev is occupied by US intelligence officers and that it’s off limits even to Ukrainian personnel. This is the degree to which the West, the US in the first place, has engineered the bloody coup d’etat in Kiev and is now engineering what Yanukovych himself said, a civil war in his country, and this again is the use of all-out military force, not security personnel, not even riot police but military personnel against peaceful protesters in eastern Ukraine.
Posted by: brian | Apr 14, 2014 10:31:47 AM | 95
Bevin;The Zionists control the US government.Every terrible decision regarding American prosperity,security and foreign relations have been backed by the Zionists.And their middle finger to alleged(which of course are bogus) American interests in the Ukraine should set off alarm bells as to their perfidy regarding their lap dog America.And the Zionist MSM in America is totally in collusion with their brethren in Israel,so this anti American stance is just Kabuki theater,and illuminates the Zionists duality in dealing with the goyim nations,of whom they wish to extract their historical enmity.
Passover:Were the Jews escaping the Pharaoh,or was he kicking the traitor Moses(very interesting story there) and sh*t stirrers out?Which brings up the old antisemitic canard(ha);What came first,Jews or antisemitism?
Posted by: dahoit | Apr 14, 2014 10:34:43 AM | 97
The next one to spew some nonsense about "the Jews" her gets blocked as will follow ups to it.
This thread is about Ukraine and the current action there. Nothing else. If you want to discuss something different LEAVE!
Posted by: b | Apr 14, 2014 11:08:06 AM | 99
Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 14, 2014 9:37:42 AM | 91
UN troops? thats like something out of te mkovie Conspiracy theory!
'They say they're defending the country from U.N. troops. These guys are yelling so loud, my theory is that this is a conspiracy, pal — they ARE the U.N. troop'
Posted by: brian | Apr 14, 2014 11:19:41 AM | 100