March 05, 2014
Ukraine: Ashton Phonecall On Maidan Snipers
Someone recorded a phone call between the Estonian foreign minister Paet and the EU high representative Ashton.
Paet reports from his talks with somewhat neutral people on the Maidan, including some Olga that Ashton also knows, during a recent visit in Kiev:
- there is no trust of the people in the new government (2:35)
- all of them in the new government have a dirty past (2:50)
- the trust level (towards the new government) is absolutely low (3:20)
- enormous pressure against (party of the region) members of parliament (3:40)
- "uninvited visitors" enter in the night on party members (3:50)
- journalists who were with me saw during the day that one member of parliament was just beaten in front of the parliament (4:00)
- people will not leave the street before *real* reforms start, it is not enough that there is just change of government (4:20)
- the same Olga (from a civil society group) told me that people killed by snipers on both sides, among policemen and people on the street, that they were the same snipers killing people from both sides, she showed me some photos and said she has a medical doctor and that it is the same handwriting and the same type of bullets and it is disturbing that the new coalition now don't want to investigate (8:25)
- There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind snipers it was not Yanukovich but it was somebody from the new coalition. (8:55)
- it discredited itself from the very beginning this new coalition (9:20)
Ashton says "gosh" to the sniper revelation but then plays over it.
Note: This call does not prove that the snipers came from the new coalition site. But it is a hint that this must be investigated.
Using snipers in such fashion is not uncommon. Snipers shooting at both sides in a civil conflict have been documented during the coup attempt against Chavez, the during the red-shirt vs. yellow-shirt conflicts in Thailand and during protests in Syria.
Posted by b on March 5, 2014 at 08:57 AM | Permalink
Still waiting for MSM to write about this...
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 5, 2014 9:03:07 AM | 1
exactly like Syria march 2011 !
Posted by: Nobody | Mar 5, 2014 9:07:08 AM | 2
This is blowing up. In a few hours expect some lame damage control from Kerry calling Paet misguided or misled or some such.
I love how Ashton is so blase in this phone call, almost like she was covering for herself in case of a phone tap, she goes on and on about securing IMF funds and "Yats and Klitsch" as Paet is telling her about some REALLY SERIOUS AND CRUCIAL SHIT.
She says "Interesting..."
Posted by: L Bean | Mar 5, 2014 9:11:30 AM | 4
Not a chance this will be covered in western media.
Posted by: ThePaper | Mar 5, 2014 9:13:19 AM | 5
Since this recording of ashton is more likely to have come from Russian intercepts and passed off as coming from Ukrainian sources, it certainly looks like a confirmation of the "prediction" somebody made a few days ago when he said in a conversation about the identity of the snipers that : "Russia will know"
Certainly looks like Russia knows it was the NATO side that arranged those Snipers
Posted by: brb | Mar 5, 2014 9:19:53 AM | 6
Are we safe? The people ruling the EU are plain psychopaths...God help us!!!
Posted by: Zico | Mar 5, 2014 9:29:59 AM | 7
5) They will have to. Presumably they are still in a state of shock.
Posted by: somebody | Mar 5, 2014 9:40:33 AM | 8
the spin begins:
Berlin Tageszeitung @BlnTageszeitung 6m
#Ukraine: #Putin and his Propaganda Department "#RT" spinning now a yarn that #Euromaidan organize #Berkut Snipers http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946 …
Posted by: brian | Mar 5, 2014 9:44:41 AM | 9
Somewhere on the net is a paper showing where snipers have been used in the last 20yrs or so and I've never been able to find it again.
Yes Syria & Thailand are just a few, it's western treat to bring both side to each other throats. Works every time
Posted by: jo6pac | Mar 5, 2014 9:48:54 AM | 11
They first used these snipers in Iran in 2009, then Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria and now Ukraine.
These people are truly demented!!!
Posted by: Zico | Mar 5, 2014 9:49:21 AM | 12
Ukraine is de facto recognizing a border with Crimea?
The Ukrainian state border guard has introduced a special access control on the border with the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, said Pavel Shisholin, head of the Ukraine border troops and appointed by the Kiev regime.
According to him, there are now some 300 border guards, manning checkpoints and controlling traffic in both directions, at the borders between Crimea and the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions.
Posted by: ThePaper | Mar 5, 2014 9:49:39 AM | 13
That's what it's all about!
15:03: US Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel says Washington plans to expand military cooperation with its "allies" Poland and the Baltic States.
Telling recovering EUropeans that there is NO question they should have an EUrasian zone and make too much business with the REDS after the humiliating defeat in Syria. The Germans have been dreaming far too much of rail business on the silk road. Back to reality.
Poor Martin Schulz, doing his best to get a few people go out and vote for him next May.
I forecast a record abstention rate.
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5, 2014 10:10:16 AM | 16
Estonia confirmed authenticity of this conversation, but spinning in West media began "its just hearsay", etc :)
Posted by: Harry | Mar 5, 2014 10:26:47 AM | 17
How long until one of these "elite" sniper groups takes it upon themselves to start doing there own type of "regime change"?
We must remember the Italian condottieri, pretorianii and mameluke how after being utilized to deadly effect against foes of the regime that employed them, then turned on said authority and placed themselves in power.
Posted by: Fernando | Mar 5, 2014 10:32:37 AM | 18
Posted by: jo6pac | Mar 5, 2014 9:48:54 AM | 11
Posted by: Yul | Mar 5, 2014 10:03:30 AM | 15
I've been wondering what the key to the Regime Change formula was. It had to be "simple but effective" to have worked so well, so many times, in so many places.
To both of you.
And Global Research.ca
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 5, 2014 10:37:17 AM | 19
EU didn't move fast enough. They were supposed to get that deal nailed down before all of this stuff started spilling out. That's why zbig was urging them to act quickly, pressuring Merkel to cough up more money. Seems to me it was only a matter of time before details would start spilling out.
What is just as shocking as the details revealed in that conversation is the fact that Ashton just blew it off. Then the Estonian FM started small talk too.
Posted by: gemini333 | Mar 5, 2014 10:39:53 AM | 20
Hrs now and not a single MSM have reported it.
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 5, 2014 10:45:31 AM | 21
It's SHOCKING that Catherine ASHTON reacted so blasé to SERIOUS CLAIMS that members of the opposition, surely instigators fired on both sides of the crowd! And then to say that the opposition should be encouraged to lay flowers to no doubt put on a pity show for international audiences is almost as shocking and disgusting!
This is shocking news that the Zionist mainstream without a doubt is ignoring and suppressing! Merely the fact that Catherine Ashton's phonecall was hacked should be making news, but nooooooh, otherwise the lamestream media would have to reveal the SHOCKER that snipers from the opposition shot on both sides! Shame on the media for concealing this news to satisfy U.S. propaganda! ABSOLUTELY SHAMEFUL DECEPTION.
Posted by: kalithea | Mar 5, 2014 10:50:51 AM | 22
This Ukrainian revolt was staged and the West is enabling the deception.
The phonecall doesn't only reveal that opposition snipers fired on both sides of the crowd, but that there is STAGING going on to bias the international public. They mention there should always be EU politicians on site(no doubt making a fuss to make it look good). They talk about encouraging the crowd to lay flowers because they need to stage a dramatic scene no doubt to draw in more sympathy from the rest of the world and then we get the shocker that the tragedy was ALSO STAGED and instigated by opposition snipers firing on both sides! And to make matters worse, from the conversation we learn this new government is in chaos and behaving like thugs.
This is big! This demonstrates that the instigators of this revolt and coup care nothing about the people of Ukraine but only about power and threatening Russian security.
Posted by: kalithea | Mar 5, 2014 11:05:03 AM | 23
So was it russian soldiers that blocked or as putin said just pro-russian groups?
The cars have russian plates so whats going on? Whose telling the truth?
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 5, 2014 11:12:20 AM | 24
Posted by: Yul | Mar 5, 2014 10:03:30 AM | 15
Yes and thank you so much Yul.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 5, 2014 10:37:17 AM | 19
Yes, interesting indeed and this is by police departments everywhere as we saw during OWS or way back in my days Nixon in San Jose, Calif.
Posted by: jo6pac | Mar 5, 2014 11:15:30 AM | 25
22 - They will cover it, don't worry - this is British Channel4, this here is the Daily Telegraph and Olga denies the content of her conversation with the Estonian Minister.
This here is a video on the Fatherland MP Pashinsky caught with a sniper rifle on February 18th. Which journo is going to interview him?
The shocking thing about Ashton is that she presumably knew about it before, there were British experts in Kiew looking for the sniper trace on February 25th.
They all have the "Russian propaganda" caveat, the tape, however, is obviously real.
Posted by: somebody | Mar 5, 2014 11:21:15 AM | 26
She's risking a her future job as minister of health, as promessed by Ashton in the conversation. So she'd better help the Estonian FM get out of this mess and quick, otherwise she'll remain like thousands of Ukrainians who are candidate to emigrate anywhere in hope for finding a job...
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5, 2014 11:31:49 AM | 28
Will this get any traction? Doubtful...unless the new gov't is itself overthrown in a popular uprising soon.
During the war in Bosnia-Herzegovina, there were persistent accusations that at least some of the artillery/sniper attack against civilians in Sarajevo were "suspicious." These accusations came from what should have been highly credible sources--e.g. the Canadian general commanding the UN peacekeeping contingent. None of these made the dent on the official narrative.
Posted by: a different anon | Mar 5, 2014 11:43:29 AM | 31
Pathetic turks and obama, what a warmongering warcriminal he is!
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 5, 2014 11:43:43 AM | 32
Francesco Sisci has a good piece on the EU-US divisions over Ukraine. In it he mentions that the US support for EU enlargement has always been a way of watering down the chances of a unified Europe, that could threaten US global power.
After the collapse of the Soviet Empire, the US and the rest of Western Europe allowed the reunification of Germany (de facto an expansion of West Germany into East Germany) in return for the enlargement of the European Union.
This watered down any possible drive for political unity in the EU. This was also a positive development for America, which was then suspicious of political unity in Europe and of a united Germany because a larger Europe could create risky ambitions challenging America's global role.
While the US may want Ukraine to become an EU member to hurt Russia, it is not in EU interests. Developing Western Ukraine up to the EU standards would be twice as expensive and take twice as long as East German reunification was.
Sisci seems to think the best option would be using Ukraine as a buffer state between East and West. Neutral to both EU and Russia and acting as a no-mans-land between the two civilisations. That way Ukraine could benefit from the trade that comes with being a bridge between major powers (similar to Turkey's role as a bridge between the Middle East and Europe).
It's time Europe realised that US moves are not just aimed at weakening Russia but also weakening Europe so it can't challenge US power.
Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Mar 5, 2014 11:52:09 AM | 34
Ukrainian PM Yatsenyuk invited to NATO on March 6:
The NATO Council and Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen will have a meeting with Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk at NATO headquarters in Brussels on Thursday, NATO Spokesperson Oana Lungescu said.
They aren't wasting any time, are they?
Posted by: lysias | Mar 5, 2014 11:57:46 AM | 37
Great post, b. My worry is that more provocation is coming. The only way for the putschists to stay in power, particularly after the IMF announces the structural adjustment Ukraine will have to implement in order to receive a bailout, will be to continue wailing about the evil Russians. It seems like the scene has already been set in Donetsk.
Posted by: Mike Maloney | Mar 5, 2014 11:59:54 AM | 38
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5, 2014 12:03:17 PM | 39
30) Will this get any traction? Doubtful...unless the new gov't is itself overthrown in a popular uprising soon.
That is what Putin thinks will happen. He did call it revolution, and said people were tired of seeing one crook being replaced with another crook.
If you let the story of the murder of "Yevhen Shcherban" sink in you realize with what kind of people US/EU have teamed up.
He and his wife Nadezhda (née Nikitina) were assassinated on a runway at Donetsk Airport on November 3, 1996 by several men posing as public force officers. Among the killers were Vadim Bolotskikh, Gennadiy Zangelidi and others. Prosecutors have stated the murder was intended to eliminate competition for control of Ukraine’s natural gas industry. In 2002, eight men were arrested and tried for the murder. All of them were found guilty, with three receiving life sentences.[
Coincidentally, the event took place soon after replacement of the Governor of Donetsk Oblast Volodymyr Shcherban (no relation to Yevhen) with the former Minister of Coal Industry of Ukraine Serhiy Polyakov and the appointment of Viktor Yanukovych to the position of a deputy chairman.
Previously, in December 1995, when Serhiy Polyakov was appointed to the ministerial position in Donetsk, the Industrial Union of Donbas (ISD) was established. Headed by Serhiy Taruta, many however saw the real leader of the Union as Yevhen Shcherban. Preceding that in October 1995 another no less important assassination of Akhat Bragin took place. Since then a number of assassinations of lesser ISD members took place from January to July 1996. However, the assassination of People's Deputy of Ukraine became the most noticeable.
Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Pavlo Lazarenko has been implicated in the murder of Yehven Shcherban by the Prosecutor General of Ukraine Svyatoslav Piskun in January 2003. Piskun has been fired from the office of Prosecutor General by two presidents of Ukraine, Leonid Kuchma and Viktor Yushchenko, but both dismissals were voided by the courts. Since late October 2011 former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko has also been implicated, particularly by the First Deputy Prosecutor General of Ukraine Renat Kuzmin. Since late October 2011 Ukrainian prosecutors are investigating whether Tymoshenko and Lazarenko were involved in the murder of Shcherban. On April 4, 2012 Shcherban’s son, Ruslan gave a press conference in Kiev in which he implied he had new evidence in this case. The wife of a key witness in this case, Izabella Kyrychenko who is a citizen of the United States, has complained that she was imprisoned to force a statement from her husband. Arrested in fall of 2011, she was released after three months from detention in the Lukyanivska Prison due to her health conditions. Coincidentally, her husband, Petro Kyrychenko, at that time was giving testimony in connection with the Shcherban murder. In summer of 2012, the Pechersk District Court closed the case against Kyrychenko.
(Per July 2012) the First Deputy Prosecutor General of Ukraine Renat Kuzmin announced intentions to bring murder charges against Tymoshenko for the murder of Yevhen Shcherban in 1996.
On 18 January 2013, Tymoshenko was notified that she is a suspect in the murder of Shcherban, his wife and two other people in 1996.
According to Ukrayinska Pravda, Shcherban's son Ruslan is business partners with Oleksandr Yanukovych, the son of the former President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych
Posted by: somebody | Mar 5, 2014 12:04:02 PM | 40
Colm @ 33
I saw that article too, but stopped reading after the line "the new Russian Empire", as though it has been perpetually trying to expand it's influence like some other Empire who shall remain nameless.
Thanks for the summation though, good info.
Posted by: Prey4 Justice | Mar 5, 2014 12:10:23 PM | 41
The BBC live blog is now reporting that Serry (Ban's and Nuland's friend who was supposed to "glue" the whole thing for the US) has been threatened and is now "in Crimea" (twice repeated) in "a coffeeshop" with an ITV journalist. Problem: this doesn't look at all like a coffeeshop and when was he supposed to have been sent to Crimea?
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5, 2014 12:18:32 PM | 42
Oops, 6th is tomorrow, Thursday. That's when Yats is to go to NATO in Brussels.
Posted by: lysias | Mar 5, 2014 12:21:21 PM | 43
Of course the snipers shot at both sides. > imho.
What all this shows is the gingerly disconnect between the hoi polloi, politicians and Gvmts, (Ashton, Brussels, EU, but also the Obama Admin, etc.) who are just in their own world and nodding sleepily at lame power-points and boring speeches and engaging mutual talks and influence over crab canapés, sticking to some rudimentary and outdated playbook or road-map or ‘staying in your role,’ pandering to any Corp. opinion and being ‘balanced’ or like standing up for Human Rights at the UN, etc. (Not the whole story and one might argue...)
Sure, there are forces dark plots, at work to instigate war, destabilize the Ukraine, etc. These are neo-connish (US-isr) and authoritarian in the sense of alliance with anyone who aspires to / can use jackboots, murder without hesitation, or playing on ethnic/religious belonging and the like, but are mostly out for personal profit. (E.g. McCain supported Morsi and the MB, religious authorities.)
As that is the mandate that has been handed to them: profit through power and subjugation of ‘the people’ are OK if you can get away with it. See, for ex. the US itself with its prisons and squeezed labor and the hungry children..
For some, that is an extension of the ‘capitalist’ model which to survive in today’s bleak and soon semi burnt-out landscape (aka energy costs) can only continue by coercion, not by what is often mysteriously called ‘organic’ growth.
Then there are the skimmers, that is the Finance industry. Finance tends to keep its hands clean as they profit whatever happens, that is what they like to think.
Neither Obama’s US nor the EU nor Putin wanted any part of troubles in the Ukr.
Pro are neo-cons, New Cold War Instigators (money in their coffers, Pentagon, etc.), and the PNAC types (to make it short) and anyone who was, is, a ‘gangster’ on the make.
Like Svoboda and others. That includes ‘protestors’ and ‘twitter types’ in urban centers who need money for their life-style, so easily bought and co-opted.
Posted by: Noirette | Mar 5, 2014 12:22:01 PM | 44
Since when are UN representatives sent incognito and traveling with journalists?
17:19:Robert Serry had been sent to the Black Sea peninsula - which has come under de facto Russian control - to "take stock of the situation", UN Deputy Secretary General Jan Eliasson tells journalists in Kiev.
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5, 2014 12:23:27 PM | 45
The full sentence by Paet is:
"It's really disturbing to know that the new coalition don't want to investigate what exactly happened. So there is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind snipers it was not Yanukovich but it was somebody from the new coalition"
MoF and RT start citation from "there is now..." which completely changes what he really meant.
Posted by: pomk | Mar 5, 2014 12:41:30 PM | 49
Your grasp of the English language needs more work
Posted by: Pat Bateman | Mar 5, 2014 12:51:50 PM | 50
Paet is worried because he knows that it may be his own people tomorrow (if they vote wrong, one day), while Ashton doesn't give a damn because it can't happen to her: she has no "people" in BXL. Perfect demonstration of the complete separation between the BXL elites and the people they are supposed to administer.
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5, 2014 12:55:47 PM | 51
Are we safe? The people ruling the EU are plain psychopaths...God help us!!!
No, you are not safe. The egregious false flag event that kicked off this murderous US war of aggression 13 years ago - i.e., 9/11 - showed us all that the murderous psychopaths in charge were more than willing to sacrifice innocent lives - yes, even innocent domestics dramatically and by the thousands - to achieve their own end.
After that came millions of more murders/maimings/displacements/tortures/etc of equally innocent people for equally fantastical reasons with full-scale invasions and continues down to the present crisis.
Due to the world's incomprehensible deference to the murderous American psychopaths/minions/narratives, its jettisoning of rationality and morals and its allowance of reality to become subservient to the whims of said psychopaths, the answer is undoubtedly and resoundingly:
NO, NO ONE ON THE PLANET IS SAFE until everyone starts at least trying to act like fucking rational civilized human beings once again.
That means not accepting outrageous and farcical explanations/statements/narrative.
That means demanding that egregious war criminality be labeled and prosecuted as such BY WHOMEVER commits said acts.
For fuck's sake, to sit here and have to type such things in the 21st century is the scariest thing of it all.
Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 5, 2014 12:56:24 PM | 52
Regarding the phonecall. There's no doubt it's real and there's no doubt the West is trying to help Ukrainians "stage the scene" to draw public perception to the Ukrainian side.
However, it appears that Olga Bogomolets is now walking back whatever conversation she had with the Estonian Foreign Minister, Paets, regarding the suspicious identity of the snipers.
If the Ukrainians are refusing to have a forensic investigation conducted on the Yanukovych side victims to identify whether victims on both sides suffered similar wounds from similar weapons, then this is very telling and incriminating against the newly-imposed Ukrainian government. It appears that at this time the Maidans are obstructing justice. Gee, I wonder why?
Posted by: kalithea | Mar 5, 2014 1:09:23 PM | 53
While the BBC makes a bit of money by keeping its readers with fake alarms, RT arabic has "breaking news, Kerry and Lavrov agree on application of the signed 21st Feb agreement"
Posted by: Mina | Mar 5, 2014 1:10:10 PM | 54
Just wondering: Why is Hillary getting a free pass and off-the-hook after the inflammatory comparison she made of Putin with Hitler? She no doubt forgot how Russians contributed to the fall of the Nazi regime. If Hillary were President she'd probably have the entire 5th Fleet crossing the Bosphorous right now and invading Iran at the same time! She seems to have WWIII on the brain. This woman lost her marbles with that comment.
Americans should consider who they vote for next as all these foreign interventions are costing tax-payers hundreds of billions, perhaps even a trillion or more. Ukrainians are asking for more than 20 billion after overthrowing an elected government with suspicious snipers firing on both sides of the demonstrators. Maybe Americans should give a non-interventionist candidate a chance next time around (2016).
Posted by: kalithea | Mar 5, 2014 1:42:17 PM | 55
1) Are they trying to get this woman (Bogomolets) killed?
2) Does she have kids -- or parents?
How could they be so free with the name of someone who has potentially damaging information about such murderous thugs - depraved indifference? Or was it perhaps "to encourage the others" who want to volunteer unwelcome facts.
Posted by: rjj | Mar 5, 2014 1:42:31 PM | 56
Here is what passes for wisdom from the NYT's deep thinker on foreign affairs Thomas Friedman:
What disturbs me about Crimea is the larger trend it fits into, that Putinism used to just be a threat to Russia but is now becoming a threat to global stability.
That makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? After Libya, Yemen, Syria -- just keep going on down the list -- it is "Putinism" that threatens worldwide order and justice. Friedman's solution? The U.S. should begin a crash course in construction of liquefied natural gas terminals to flood overseas markets with North America's fracking bonanza. This will supposedly drop the price of natural gas so low that it will bring Putin weeping to his knees.
To think that Friedman gets paid handsomely to extrude this twaddle.
Posted by: Mike Maloney | Mar 5, 2014 1:45:02 PM | 57
If she has any hostages to fortune she will be eager to trade silence for security.
Posted by: rjj | Mar 5, 2014 1:46:28 PM | 58
Hillary is sick in head, its her lovely obama that supports the nazis in Ukraine!
hillary is as psycho as this lady.
Madeleine Albright - The deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children was worth it
Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 5, 2014 1:46:36 PM | 59
i dont think Ashton should have said gosh
more like "Oh Shit"
Posted by: chris m | Mar 5, 2014 2:12:42 PM | 61
i hope this is not followed in a few weeks by major financial crash
(Damn Football World cup in june, Euro elections in May)
it would only took our minds off watching events in Ukraine.
Posted by: chris m | Mar 5, 2014 2:16:43 PM | 62
Saker has some interesting insight on this:
Now listen carefully to Ashton's reaction to news about the insurgent snipers:
"I think that they do want to investigate, gosh!"
What?! Is she seriously suggesting that the new regime, which came to power courtesy of these snipers, will actually investigate itself? Is she that dumb? Of course not! But she is annoyed by this topic so she just tosses in a simple cop-out which basically means "I am not interested, let the Ukies handle it" (knowing full well that they won't).
Paet, by the way, immediately get the message and gives a new spin to his previous remark: he mentioned this info not because he is outraged, no, only because if this story takes on its own life this "will discredit the new coalition". Oh how nice of him, he worries that if the truth comes out the Eurofascists will be embarrassed. Next time, he won't even bring it up. Those central European politicians sure learn fast from their western masters.
In other words, Ashton was discreetly signalling to an underling that she didn't want to pursue the topic. The underling, who didn't become an underling by being tone deaf to such cues, quickly took the hint and changed the subject.
Posted by: Lexigton | Mar 5, 2014 2:29:19 PM | 63
The link which b gives contains only Ashton's side of the conversation. So I didn't hear anything related to b's conclusions in them. There is this however, from RT.
Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 5, 2014 2:31:30 PM | 64
Oops...my previous comment was in response to gemini333 @ #20:
What is just as shocking as the details revealed in that conversation is the fact that Ashton just blew it off. Then the Estonian FM started small talk too.
Posted by: Lexigton | Mar 5, 2014 2:32:16 PM | 65
then either your left speaker is broken or the channel is turned off ;-)
Posted by: peter radiator | Mar 5, 2014 2:52:49 PM | 66
Can anyone be specific about the sniper rifles used in this video? I'll try to pinpoint the geographic location – date 20.02.2014.
Posted by: Oui | Mar 5, 2014 3:14:10 PM | 69
I'm shocked, seriously and awfully shocked, by the horrendous stupidity of that baltic guy whom I take to be one of many zeu country politicians.
This guy seems to *actually believe* the whole "democracy" crap incl. line and sinker.
Ashton, of course, is an initiated pig. The was I see it, she evidently trys to bury and cover up some times.
It was bad enough, when I thought that politicians are rats one like the other. Now, however, when I can't but recognize that they, at least mny of the, actually believe that whole bullshit they preach, it almost frightens me.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5, 2014 3:31:19 PM | 70
@Oui #68: Location sniper video via Google maps: Instytutska St, 9 Kiev, місто Київ, Ukraine, distance from bridge approx. 550 mtr., from this position there is no straigth line of sight to hit any victims near overpass – see my diary with video of incident.
This may be indication sniper nest was halfway and kept both sides pinned down with deadly shots. These men in video are aiming at slight upward angle, not horizontal at street level.
Posted by: Oui | Mar 5, 2014 3:46:30 PM | 71
Can anyone be specific about the sniper rifles used in this video?
I don't know too much about modern ukraines police/mil. equipment so I'm not at all an expert.
From what I can see at a quick glance in the low qual. video, there are almost no sniper rifles except two. I wouldn't dare to identify those with any confidence but one seems to have Russian style optics and to be some kind of real sniper rifle. Unfortunately I could not get a really good look at it but from what little I could see it seems to me that it's some strange mix of a rifle core and some sniper shaft, possibly some kind of small series ukrainian spec. forces sniper rifle. And I see a couple of Dragunovs, older ones and more current ones which are supposed to be standard "good shooter" militia issue.
As for the "evil snipers", supposedly some zato mercenaries, I advise against making too much of their equipment because they have diverse weapons and a tendency to include false flag considerations in their weapons choice. Also, their job almost certainly was to not kill certain targets professionally but rather to "wildly" shoot at targets from both sides, so they didn't even need real sniper rifles; I'd expect them to have used sth. like Dragunovs.
It would be very interesting to know more about the bullets found in victims by that Dr. Olga.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5, 2014 3:58:27 PM | 72
Mr. Pragma, That Estonian guy was certainly naive but also sounded really just shocked at actually having seen some of the carnage; you could kind of feel his new "reality" settling in after her lovely response... And I sure wouldn't want to be Dr. Olga right about now -- not too sure we'll ever hear from her again.
Also, Alexander Mercouris over at Saker claims Kharkov has been re-taken by its pro-Russian residents, likely because the police officials just really weren't that motivated... Since I am still learning my Cyrillic alphabet, I am wondering if there is any other news about various southern or eastern cities or regions. Or anywhere else, for that matter.
Posted by: Nora | Mar 5, 2014 5:32:17 PM | 73
OMG! I spent half an hour trying to connect with this site. What happened??? Did someone take it down?
Posted by: kalithea | Mar 5, 2014 6:41:09 PM | 74
Me too, then got on, then couldn't again. Not surprising though -- it's actually a compliment, right? ;~)
Can anyone here address pipeline politics? There's a piece over at CounterPunch that suggests they may also be in play here, big-time. http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/05/ukraine-and-the-great-asian-enclosure/ It kind of fits, but I'm in WAAAY over my head.
Posted by: Nora | Mar 5, 2014 6:48:14 PM | 75
Well, you look at it from another angle (and I think you are right). But, see, if ministers are completely brainwashed and stupid enough to eat the whole crap-cake incl. plate, then who on earth is supposed to understand the world?
Also, one can't but clearly see the *true working* of democracy that is, that there are evidently 2 layers, one where decision are made (secretely and completely ignoring what the people think or want) and a "sales front" largely occupied with selling the decisions taken secretly and ignorantly and painting them nice, brainwashing the people incl. most of their deputees, and, most important of all, keeping the democracy fairy tale alive.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5, 2014 6:56:02 PM | 76
I think that the big news of the day is that the Russian flag that was flying over city hall in Donetsk since last week end has come down and replaced with the usual Ukrainian flag. In addition RT seems to have stopped covering the pro Russian demonstrations and activities in Odessa, Donetsk and Dnepropetrovsk.
I think this means that Putin is not interested is seeing Ukraine divided into two. He has made his point in Crimea and I suspect that at least the EU agrees that this is part of Russia's sphere of influence and are not going to challenge them there. This also suggests that Putin thinks he can restore some kind of binational government in Kiev where the Russian influence will block efforts by Nationalists to join the EU and NATO.
If that is his thinking I hope he knows what he is doing. That sounds like a very dangerous strategy. It might be better to simply accept that the fascists will rule the west and let them become debt slaves to European banks. As for jobs, there must be 5 million plumbers and dishwashers in Europe.
Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 5, 2014 7:03:47 PM | 77
I experienced a similar difficulty. I don't know if anyone is trying to bring this site down, but given the depth of real freedom in "liberal democracies" I won't be surprised one bit if this site is brought down. One has to never forget the faith of luminaries like Brecht, the artists like Charlie Chaplin, the scientists like Oppenheimer and Einstein, the academicians like finkelstein and ward churchill in the land of freedom (sorry "free enterprise").
By the way a pitiful clown named Liz Wahl just put on a disgusting show and resigned live on RT. I wonder how much she was paid for the show, and I have no doubt that she will find her proper niche in FOX news.
Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 5, 2014 7:11:37 PM | 78
Correction to my own comment #77:
"...One has to never forget the faith of luminaries like Brecht, the artists like Charlie Chaplin..."
"faith" was supposed to be "fate". Sorry about that. Give it to my poor English...
Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 5, 2014 7:17:26 PM | 79
Mr. P (75) Well, I'm an American and a study just found that 10% of us think HTML is a sexually-transmitted disease -- i.e., we are more seriously stupid than I am sure even you previously thought. Also, that Deep State concept sort of suggests that we really have no one in charge here *by design*. Re: your second paragraph, this is straight out of the Leo Strauss playbook, just like everything Barack Obama says and does. Back then to who is supposed to understand the world: not us, not our leaders, just a free-for-all Survival-Of-The-"Fittest"-Fest? Against whom Putin now strategizes, hopefully with some success. Otherwise, I haven't a clue.
Posted by: Nora | Mar 5, 2014 7:23:46 PM | 80
@Mr. Pragma #71: Thanks for info. I watched the video where the protesters were hit by sniper fire. The sharpshooter didn't waste many bullets, but he picked off victims one by one. Quite accurately, body parts were hit that were not protected by large shields. If a sniper nest was halfway, the shooting range would have been a mere 250 meters. Like sitting ducks, the victims had no idea where the shots came from. The group had gotten an order to advance forward on Instytutska Street, a crazied venture. Beyond the overpass they were immediately pinned doen by sniper fire.
Posted by: Oui | Mar 5, 2014 7:23:55 PM | 81
Either works, Pirouz. They all suffered various fates for their faith in justice, honesty and reason.
Yes this site was inaccessible for some hours and on the very day that I had joked about the need for a print edition.
Posted by: bevin | Mar 5, 2014 7:25:48 PM | 82
@74 & 77
Thanks for letting me know I wasn't the only one who couldn't connect!
Pirouz_2 Yes, she's an American ingrate. Good riddance to her! I don't like what Abby Martin did either and she got it all wrong. Putin didn't take over Ukraine, the U.S. and Nato are trying to take over Ukraine and Putin is tyring to show them the door.
Posted by: kalithea | Mar 5, 2014 7:34:36 PM | 84
Abby Martin and Liz Wahl are shameless know-nothing whores for US war criminals.
Oh, but Abby Martin is involved in 9/11 Truth, right?
Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 5, 2014 7:48:16 PM | 85
66% of Russian Gas exports transit Ukraine.
Posted by: brb | Mar 5, 2014 7:49:46 PM | 86
Well, my education and my desire to be polite make it difficult to say a lot to you (american) but I still have a capability to differentiate between what seems to be a decent human (if from zusa) and a zamerican.
I think (and wrote it again and again): There are basically just 2 strategies against that cancer (you call it "leo strauss"). a) blunt force and b) truth, truth, truth.
But the problem gets deeper. Assume the zio empire were crushed. Then there would still be some billion people who are a) completely spoiled and rotten by the democracy fairy tale and b) gross stupidity and bad information.
Suggest anything but democracy to them and they'll howl. Which means that there would be simply a start of a new cycle ... with criminals already in starting positions ...
Fwiw, I also experience (and still experience) difficulties reaching MoA. I would, however, not immediately think of "hackers!". Sometimes there are simply hickups and problems.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5, 2014 7:56:14 PM | 87
#73, #74, #77,
Yes, I too had this problem. It was also affecting the website, Sic Semper Tyrannis. I had the email address of the owner of that blog, and notified him of the situation on his blog, as well as the same problem being found at MofA. Partial loading, "Problem Loading Page" notifications. Even when the sites appeared to load, the same issues surfaced when trying to download comments to posts. Both sites are currently back up for me.
Both of these sites have taken a highly visible stance of opposition to the "approved" version of events in Ukraine and elsewhere. I think that somebody may have launched some form of denial of service attacks. Who? Ukrainian fascists, US/NATO, Israelis are all possibilities. Authoritarians who don't like people to think or to put two and two together and figure out what they are up to. Welcome to the New World Order.
Posted by: JerseyJeffersonian | Mar 5, 2014 7:56:46 PM | 88
Here's Liz Wahl's cv from Linkedin:
Why, your quitting sure seems like it was a heartfelt thing, huh, Liz?
Tell us about the pivotal conscience issues that made you quit CNN and FOX, mkay? chortle
Liz Wahl's Experience
Correspondent/Anchor RTTV America
September 2011 – Present (2 years 7 months) Washington D.C.
Contributor CNN International
June 2011 – September 2011 (4 months)
December 2009 – September 2011 (1 year 10 months)
Freelance Associate Producer News 12
April 2009 – November 2009 (8 months)
Intern Fox News Channel
September 2007 – May 2008 (9 months)
Intern NBC 30
January 2006 – May 2006 (5 months)
Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 5, 2014 7:56:56 PM | 89
Sorry, broken link to her Linked In profile (getting weird error messages):
Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 5, 2014 8:05:55 PM | 90
Nora #79 Mistaking HTML with a sexually transmitted disease is not as ignorant as it may sound. These likely are people who are over 50 years old. In 1984 the virus causing AIDS was discovered and went by the name HTLV. After a few years this was dropped for the HIV designation.
Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 5, 2014 8:06:32 PM | 91
Here's a rough outline of what Ashton is Wishin' And Hopin' for...
(from Germany the Re-engineered Ally by Axel Brot, August 2007)
Extract from Part 2, Section 3.
The expansion of NATO to members of the former Warsaw Pact and to the Baltic countries, as well as the anticipated one to the Ukraine and Georgia, are equally sold as a joist of Eurasia's security architecture. Ironically enough, the same rationale is given for the German-led efforts to draw the Central Asian and Caucasian republics - and, in particular, the Caspian resources - out of the Russian into the Western orbit. In this, Russia's "true, legitimate interests" are being served because this process encourages democracy, accountable government, respect for human rights, and the non-violent resolution of territorial conflicts.
The tongue-in-cheek character of the "stability" rhetoric reveals itself most clearly in the hasbara about the "missile shield" installations in Poland and the Czech Republic, ostensibly directed against incipient threats from North Korea (which is in the process of denuclearizing itself) and Iran (whose threat potential against the US is as phantasmagorical as its supposed intentions are fictional). They are sold to mass media consumers as insurance against the familiar "madmen"; to the more discerning audience as not directed against Russia (and Russian complaints are sold as Russian mischief-making), and to the more worried western European insiders, in classified briefings, as a "hedge" with growth potential to dissuade the evolution of a greater than expected Russian or Chinese threat.
In reality, as even the more godfearing observers of US policies cannot help but notice, it is a provocative move designed to trap the Russians into easily denouncable, but helpless gestures of protest and to put the onus on them for burdening further the EU-Russian relationship. And Russia has no way to evade the trap: retch or spit, down it will go.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Mar 5, 2014 8:08:15 PM | 92
Ditto with the problems here (SoCal, USA). Could not access for about an hour. DNS seemed fine, with nslookup returning a valid address. Neither the official link of www.moonofalabama.org, nor the address would work. I even tried both in an 'anonymizer' proxy and they still didn't work.
Probably just a random net 'hiccup', but...
Didn't someone here mention that a Counterpunch article on Ukraine was liberally sprinkled with MoA references recently? (Sorry...not really trying to further the "Wee'z bin haxed!" theory, but it is an odd coincidence.)
Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | Mar 5, 2014 8:08:39 PM | 93
Mr. Pragma (86) Please feel free to say what you wish! My education hasn't stopped me yet from using some distinctly unladylike terms around the house when we're bemoaning all this. And don't forget, this is nothing new: America was founded on stolen land, stolen labor, stolen lives. It's always bothered me deeply, and it's the very bitter lesson of a rather long life that despite all my efforts, there's really not a damned thing I can do about it.
Posted by: Nora | Mar 5, 2014 8:11:30 PM | 94
Welcome; it wasn't that much I could contribute anyway.
As for the hits you describe ...
Well, body armour isn't exactly new (nor that helpful against Lapua sniper rounds) so the lesson for snipers is simple. Put the 'v' (Or crosshairs or whatever) at the targets throat. That gives you a very high damage probability with a rather generous ~ 2 Moa at 300m. Something pretty every good police "sniper" in an american small town can do; you do not even need a sniper for that, particularly in a city environment (where wind and other factors are less troublesome).
One should also understand that sniping at 200 or 300 m in a town is *very* different from sniping at 800 or 1200m out in the wild. And by different I mean that even the equipment usually (for a professional) is quite different. Often enough, an enhanced bolt mechanism and a better quality barrel will do the job for 300m in a city and actually be more practical. One reason - and don't underestimate that - being that rifle length quickly becomes a problem (and an optical giveaway) in a city.
A good Dragunov (read: with high quality barrel) and good ammo should easily be good enough for city jobs, in particular when a guaranteed hit of the "immediate kill point" (a certain part of the brain) isn't required. In the west I have been told about similar cases of spec- forces preferring their FN FAL, somewhat enhanced, over sniper rifles for certain jobs.
Add a bipod to the mix and you have quite good results (Those kiev snipers almost certainly had the chance to prepare properly and to employ bipods).
On a completely different angle: For me the way the kiev police reacted was a major giveaway. Both concerning the situation (uncertainty incl. about command) and their training. To me they looked like brave men with not too bad training - but completely unprepared for sth. like that situation.
Posted by: Mr. Pragma | Mar 5, 2014 8:15:47 PM | 95
@ JerseyJeffersonian #87
Same thing happened to me for both sites : this one and Turcopolier
I sent an e-mail to Col Lang - started ~ 4:30 Pm.
Posted by: Yul | Mar 5, 2014 8:25:34 PM | 96
I think there is no doubt that the so called appalled anchors on RT are thinking of their careers more than anything. They certainly don't have the facts right.
This is careerism, and it has pervaded US journalism to the core. The whole phenomena of "personality" And opinion driven news feeds the dynamic of groupthink, it does NOT eliminateeliminate it.
Posted by: guest77 | Mar 5, 2014 9:16:58 PM | 98
Oui #82 That is encouraging news. It erases a data point that led to my comment at #76. However it seemed clear to me that Putin did not want to see the eastern Ukraine secede at least two weeks ago (for once those provinces split, the western half will join the EU and NATO). These negotiations going on with the EU and the fact that RT has stopped covering the secession movement in the eastern Ukraine makes me think Putin thinks (hopes?) that a bilingual Ukraine can still be kept out of NATO.
Russia should reach a point where they realize that negotiated settlements with the US will not be respected. Certainly the Russians should understand that what Merkel might want is not a factor. After all Germany (the major force in the EU) to this day is occupied by US military forces. How is it possible that Germany can defy the US in a conflict with Russia over the Ukraine? Before this problem is resolved maybe Germany should engage in peoples struggle for national liberation (from US domination).
Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 5, 2014 9:34:01 PM | 99
The playbook followed to a "t" again.
It's worth rereading the applicable (so far) portions of b's seminal "A Short History Of The War On Syria" to see the obvious similarities between the situations :
A local disturbance in Deraa near the Jordanian border was used to launch the uprising. Peaceful demonstration were held but soon shots were fired towards the police as well as towards the demonstrators. Inevitably both sides escalated. Groups armed by the Saudis target the government forces. Having colleagues killed and wounded the government forces retaliated against the demonstrators. Some of those took up arms themselves and fought the government. "Citizen journalist" propagandized the victims on the "peaceful demonstrators" side but never mentioned those on the government side. "Western" media agencies followed that scheme. Cells in other Syrian cities were activated. Again "peaceful demonstrations" were cover for "a third force", as the Arab League investigation commission named it, which fought against government forces and also instigated the demonstrators to take up arms. The U.S. government helped by issuing its own propaganda for example by lying about Syrian artillery deployment against demonstrators when, at that point, none had yet happened. U.S. para-government organizations, Avaaz, Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, joined the campaign against the Syrian government. Cyber attacks against the Syrian government news agency helped to suppress the other side of the story.
Posted by: guest77 | Mar 5, 2014 10:20:30 PM | 100