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March 29, 2014

Open Thread 2014-08

News & views ...

Posted by b on March 29, 2014 at 11:31 AM | Permalink

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I see by today's paper (Le Monde) that Obama has offered Putin a face-saving way out of the 'Crisis.' Russia sends its troops back to their bases, international 'inspectors' sent to the Russian-speaking regions to watch over (surveillent)the rights of minorities (not clear what this means in regions where Russophones are the majority), and direct talks with Kiev facilitated by the International community. Plus finally, and I don't know what this means, that Putin takes into account the Presidential elections. You have to wonder whether he believes this crap, in which case you have to wonder what he is smoking, or whether this is just for domestic consumption. I tend to hold for the former. Obama, or at least his advi sers, seem to believe that the US is militarily and economically all-powerful. They are still in deep denial. It's going to take a slew of foreign-policy wake-up calls to move them to the next stage, which won't be pretty.

Posted by: Knut | Mar 29, 2014 11:51:22 AM | 1

The USA is now threatening to sanction Venezuela as well as Russia. It wants to use the sanctions to pressure the elected government to give in to the demands of the opposition.

Venezuela Slams US for Threatening Sanctions

The Venezuelan government has condemned the United States for threatening to impose sanctions, and accused Washington of encouraging “extremist sectors”.

In a statement released by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Maduro government accused the US of “meddling in ... internal affairs” and “ignoring our democratic process”.

Yesterday, US Assistant Secretary of State Roberta Jacobson warned that sanctions against Venezuela could become an “important tool” to pressure President Nicolas Maduro to negotiate with opposition parties. However, Maduro has repeatedly called on opposition parties to join peace talks since last month.

That the US is recently sanctioning *three* big oil producers (as well as the fact that Obomber is in Saudi Arabia leaning on another oil producer) is no mistake. It seems to me that the USA has a few years as an major oil producer to try and regain its global hegemony.

So every time I hear the propaganda about the US as the world's largest oil producer, I hear that as code for "the US is taking our rightful role as the world's sole superpower back". I have no doubt that those in power will use this advantage for all it is worth. Fortunately for the world, the shale oil will last only a few years only - unfortunately for those who live on top of the deposits in Texas, Pennsylvania, New York, the Dakotas, and many other places - it comes at the cost of centuries of environmental destruction.

...

Interesting as well - the Venezuelan opposition seems to favor a representative from the Vatican as a go between during negotiations:

However, Maduro has accepted the precondition of an international arbiter, with a Vatican City representative being a possible candidate favoured by opposition groups.

The Vatican's behavior as the moderator between the popular, democratically elected government and the violent, elitist opposition would be an interesting gauge of the new Pope's commitment to social justice.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 12:13:47 PM | 2

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 12:13:47 PM | 2

the pope is well positioned for this role as he was the go between for the Argentine junta

Venezuela should not trust him.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29, 2014 12:26:31 PM | 3

Excellent point somebody, that's what makes his 'man of the people' hyper-PR tour since his 'election' so blatantly disingenuous. He's basically the Barack Obama of Catholicism.

Posted by: L Bean | Mar 29, 2014 12:47:22 PM | 4

Knut #1

"It's going to take a slew of foreign-policy wake-up calls to move them to the next stage, which won't be pretty."

It won't be pretty for me. Seems you got your income fixed? Please contact me for my rent and a piece of meat weekly, will you.

Posted by: TomGard | Mar 29, 2014 12:55:47 PM | 5

Forget the Pope, forget the Vatican's people.
Everybody knows the Catholic Church's side. Now, in the past and in the future.
Vatican alway$ defend the $tronger $ide, not the people side, nor the democracy side.

Posted by: Scan | Mar 29, 2014 12:58:33 PM | 6

Please excuse me as I'm new here. I'm not sure that I fit into the commentariat here. I'm antiZionist but I'm convinced that the tail doesn't wag the dog, which seems to leave me betwixt and between. But maybe someone can respond to the question.

How serious is the Taruta "antitank" trench? Is there any follow up with any personnel at all? I'm quite certain that it is a joke as an antitank defense against incursion by Russian forces. That being the case, a hole in the ground might be intended as a PR stunt by an oligarch eager to curry favor with the neofascists (like Tymoshenko's mouthing off on the phone.)

But if people are actually being posted along it, then it seems highly probably that it was intended more to keep people in Ukraine than keep Russian tanks out. If the new regime can keep masses of refugees from streaming across the border, then there is less pressure on Putin to fight the neofascists, which he does not appear to want to do at all. Indeed, Putin seems to me have given up any effort to influence the kind of regime which finally takes power in Kiev. If the oligarchs and neofascists can keep the border "stable" by penning in the people, Putin is less likely to face outrage at home.

Posted by: stevenjohnson | Mar 29, 2014 1:08:48 PM | 7

#7;Zionism is Israeli nationalism.I have no problem with it if it stayed in Israel.But to supersede American interests for Israel's is the height of perfidy,and with their agents everywhere influencing our policies in all ways,means they the tail are wagging our dog.
How about the dual citizens judicial decision, which made Iran liable for an (alleged)Hamas bomb which killed a dual citizen in Israel, here in America.Fortunately,another dual citizen judge(phew) said they can't take Persian museum property as compensation.Sheesh,the absurdity of it all.

Posted by: dahoit | Mar 29, 2014 1:55:04 PM | 8

Ukrainian oligarch in charge of Donetsk declares "the soft touch" used against anti-regime protestors is done.

Daily Telegraph

A day after the demonstrators broke into three buildings in Donetsk, including the headquarters of his own industrial company, Mr Taruta said there would be arrests and the police would break-up menacing gatherings.

"The soft touch is over, we are now going to defend ourselves," he said.

If the regime in Kiev intends a bloodbath - especially after one was specifically resisted against the Maidan fascists in Kiev - then Russia has every right to move in to defend its people there. The people of the east of Ukraine have every right to topple their local governments as the thugs from Lvov had the right to topple the one in Kiev.

The sight of a Right Sektor clown digging a trench all by himself in a balaclava (except for a nearby armed guard doing nothing) really says it all. Eastern Ukraine must be teeming with Russian special forces and intelligence operatives at this point. Do the klowns in Kiev really think they'll be able to survive by pinning their hopes onto what amounts to a street gang?

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 2:18:55 PM | 9

Tymoshenko plan to be president, 99,99998% will vote for her and west will say there was no fraud.

Posted by: Anonynmous | Mar 29, 2014 2:32:59 PM | 10

For French speakers on the free-trade agreement with the US and the EU and the complete silence of the French media
http://www.franceculture.fr/emission-le-secret-des-sources-libre-echange-etats-unis-europe-pourquoi-une-telle-discretion-mediati

Posted by: Mina | Mar 29, 2014 2:42:27 PM | 11

The support for Ukr. in the form of IMF / EU bail-outs and lending and its attendant austerity program are designed to pay back creditors, see Greece for ex. No mystery.

The no. 1. creditor is of course Russia (but there are others.. Germany...) That is why US congress only awarded ‘one billion’ - a tiny pittance, loan or what not never mind...

Michael Hudson outlines, not that I agree with all he says), via naked capitalism:

http://tinyurl.com/luhertz

Yats (1) announced there would be subsidies for the 30% bottom in economic terms families for gas prices. One ex:

http://tinyurl.com/nrzc3jm

What exactly that will amount to on the ground is anybody’s guess.

All going to be so tough for Ukranians that a second ‘revolution’, even more violent, is not to be excluded.

Putin has announced that Crimea pensions will not be raised to Russian levels immediately (Russian salaries / pensions / etc. are much higher than in Ukr.) but only gradually, and he quoted some vague %.

The W Ukr. neighbors, who will see their pensions cut perhaps by half (news, 2) or a bit less or? .. a huge blow and will provoke anger and possibly pro-Russian sentiment.

The pensions (as in Greece) are vitally important, because they provide a minimal safety net for the younger generation, notably for those who have parents or grand-parents who own their own homes.

1. The presidential race will oppose ppl all trawling pretty much for the same votes. The Lady of the Braids, the King Of Chocolate... Yats is not a candidate, he will be PM in any case.

2. http://rt.com/news/ukraine-austerity-pensions-halved-174/

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 29, 2014 2:47:52 PM | 12

The Americans,all of them,the ones in power and the people, really believe that if you wish for something, it must be true. I was on an American blog, just this morning, where one man insisted that his autistic sister was normal and that it was society that had a problem. It's the same with Obama and Kerry and Clinton. They really believe that if they say something, no matter how ridiculous, and you oppose them because it's not the truth, you're Hitler.

Posted by: Michele | Mar 29, 2014 2:55:04 PM | 13

@JSorrentine: Moving from the 'Turkish False Flag' post - Can you lay out the idea that Snowden is a limited hang out operation more in-depth, if you care to?

Is it that he is directly under US government employ - in other words, that this is a clandestine operation conceived of and executed at the highest levels of the US government - or is this some sort of elite infighting in the way that Ellsberg's release of the Pentagon Papers seemed to be? Or is this a ploy by an organization such as the CIA of whom the victims are not only the public, but also the elite itself? Or something else entirely?

The story is obviously not 'magic lone whistleblower here to save America from itself', but I personally think the idea that it is an operation of the US government to be equally far fetched. I realize that is not what you are suggesting, so I'm asking - what are you suggesting when you say "the Edward Snowden psyop" - who is behind it, for what purpose, and what have been its successes and failures so far?

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 3:16:02 PM | 14

Posted by: L Bean | Mar 29, 2014 12:47:22 PM | 4

Pope Francis can be trusted to serve the agenda of the Anglo-American satanic societies. Whatever his personal delusions, he is not even a validly consecrated bishop and probably not even a properly ordained priest, since radically new propaganda substitute rites were dictated in 1969. In other words, the sacerdotal (priestly) hierarchy is really a film set of God-hating heretics. Anyhow, this is why the western media adore Bergoglio, as they did that trained moaning satanist, John Paul II. That one's funeral was globally attended and live televised to celebrate the Pope's eternal damnation. Sad we don't believe in Satan - or Freemasonry.
Nevertheless, the Church Pulverised will resurrect inevitably, and the fairy floss will hit the fan.

Posted by: Michaël | Mar 29, 2014 3:28:37 PM | 15

Posted by: Noirette | Mar 29, 2014 2:47:52 PM | 11

Thanks for the interesting links.

The no. 1. creditor is of course Russia (but there are others.. Germany...) That is why US congress only awarded ‘one billion’ - a tiny pittance, loan or what not never mind...

I don't think Russia is that much exposed, they insured their last batch of bonds with the clause to be paid back immediately should Ukraine's debt be over 60 percent of GDP which without Crimea they will get close. But of course the bailout will be used to pay Russian gas bills.

US Templeton has a lot of the bonds and Austrian banks are heavily involved I don't think Germany that much.

Everybody expects the IMF to bail them out. Should Ukraine split it would be a perfect default.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29, 2014 3:33:15 PM | 16

@Noirette #11:

It's funny that Hudson believes the coup was a strictly neocon ploy to make it easier to go after Syria and Iran. Other people take that view, that it's strictly the neocons' fault, like Robert Parry.

The reality is that since Clinton, the US has had a consistent policy to expand NATO to Russia's borders. Superpower is doing what it always does: it wants every single country in the world to be under its thumb. It's a purely instinctual thing by this point.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 29, 2014 3:57:25 PM | 17

@Noirette - I have already seen (and perhaps I saw it here and apologies if so) that the Russian Duma just allocated some 36 Billion Rubles to pensioners in Crimea. Obviously this includes Tartar, Ukrainian, Russian, and whatever kind of citizen there is there. People in the rest of the Ukraine, especially in the east, will be watching this with great envy as their standards of living crash.

To retain even a modicum of legitimacy, the government in Kiev has to answer this important question: why should the Ukrainian people suffer brutal austerity in the hopes of becoming part of the EU (no guarantees) while their neighbors are becoming a part of the Eurasian Union with all of the benefits (massive resources, links to the economic dynamo of Asia) that that entails?

Obviously they will attempt to answer it with this synthesis of historical victimhood (based on the model of what developed into the 'Holocaust industry' in the west) and virulent nationalism (like the one that caused the actual holocaust). The "politics of history" are a key part of the Svoboda Party Platform (see section VI, 'Historical Justice') and the distortions that come from politicizing the past will be used as much as possible to justify suffering austerity even though an incorporation into the Eurasian Union offers all sorts of economic advantages. By incorporating Svoboda extremists into the government - and, we must assume, into the oligarchy - the new government is providing the ideological underpinnings for accepting this huge sacrifice.

The choice for the Ukrainians couldn't be more clear. Ukraine can be either the industrial heart of Eurasia or it can be a bankrupt backwater of Western Europe. And though I have no doubt that the Poles and the Balts look giddily at their chance to move up the economic food chain be incorporating Ukraine into the EU, it is an open question wether the Ukrainians will accept this, or will have a truly popular rebellion that finally eliminates what remains of the oligarchy.

The important lesson to me seems to be this: the Ukrainian people are best by a class of oligarchs which are draining their chances for any kind of future. For 20 years, there has been a seesaw battle between two shades of oligarchs who have stopped at nothing to secure their positions - now including to join with fascists and come to power via a violent coup. The result of this cycle of infighting and national robbery has been a stagnant, stolen Ukrainian future. While the countries all around them improved their living standards (it should be noted, though, that those former Soviet states that joined the EU did no better than those that did not) Ukraine with its remarkably parasitic oligarchs have been the one real exception to that fact.

What the Ukraine needs is to get out from under their oligarchs. In some ways, the elimination of Yanukovich is a step in the right direction - it showed those forces friendly to the Ukraine (Russia mostly, but also China and the rest of the BRICS) that it could not hope to rely on these unpopular forces for their influence in the Ukraine. They must now turn to the people of Ukraine if they want to have influence there.

Being that Post-Maidan only the Tymoschenko clique remains (and they are in a precarious position to say the least) the situation is cleared up a bit. All that stands between the Ukrainian people and their destiny is a ragged clique of oligarchs, and their claque - a small, regional political party, and a rabid street gang who is as much a liability to the new government as it is an asset. And these groups are as divided as is possible and have no real base accross the country. Unless they manage to hoodwink the people of Ukraine into hating their neighbors, their rule by austerity, baseball bats and visits in the night will not last long.

Once these truly undemocratic forces (not "democratic" in the Omidyar, Soros definition) are swept away Ukraine can finally do what all the other former Soviet countries have already done - emerge from the destitution of the 1990s.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 4:10:06 PM | 18

@guest77 #13:

Why on earth do you think Snowden was not a lone whistleblower?

What was he, a Russian mole?

Someone said on another thread that Russia's sygint abilities improved after Snowden got to Russia. However, Snowden has said that he didn't bring any NSA files with him to Russia, and I see no reason not to believe him. There may be a connection between the Snowden revelations coming out and Russia being willing to leak conversations it has intercepted which support how it is portraying recent events. The Snowden revelations have shown everyone that the NSA eavesdrops on basically everything. Thus, the FSB doesn't lose much if it reveals that it listens in on some conversations, too.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 29, 2014 4:11:48 PM | 19

@Demian

I am also skeptical of those who believe that we are witnessing a President who, just somehow, has ended up with a bunch of employees who don't listen to him. And I couldn't be more in agreement that the US sees any independent nation as a threat - in the same way the pathologically paranoid can't be expected to see anything other than "everyone is out to get me". But I also said, long ago, that if Obama didn't attack Syria - even if out of simple fear over the response - I would give him credit for that, and if only as a personal matter - I do want to give him that credit.

It is possible that the stand down over Syria was simply a result of the clear 'nyet' heard in Moscow and that all sectors of the US government were scared shitless and in total agreement that the attack should be called off. But it is also possible to argue that Obama stood down the war hawks who likely would have gone ahead and bombed Syria despite the Russian ships standing in their way (and if perhaps you don't reject that argument out of hand) then what accounts for those policy differences?

Is it possible that Obama - being such a weak leader in so many ways - has accepted these dangerous neocons into his administration as part of some effort at political "bipartisanship" and now has to sit up top of them and clean up their messes caused by their global shenanigans - or is this to give too much credit to a weak leader who is nothing more than a political snake oil salesman?

I do get some sense that even Presidents are victims of operations meant to manipulate them into action - the Ghouta "gas attack" being on of the most obvious I've ever seen.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 4:34:11 PM | 20

@JSorrentine: Moving from the 'Turkish False Flag' post - Can you lay out the idea that Snowden is a limited hang out operation more in-depth, if you care to?


The problem is, Snowden and sites like www.emptywheel.net have given and give us more than ample NSA chicanery to go on, that is to motivate
Americans to pressure the government....hit the streets if need be, to protest NSA and other Police State machinations.

So by way of general analogy, Occupy Wall Street give example by way of protesting and hopefully punishing those who collapsed the economy. People were free to join and to change Occupy strategy if found flawed. Or form their own protest groups and ally-- or compete-- with Occupy toward the same goal.
It is not the result of intricate brilliant elite conspiracy that there is so much passivity among the American sheeple.
The paucity of "left" and other mass politics here compared to Europe and elsewhere points more to decadence.

Posted by: truthbetold | Mar 29, 2014 4:39:34 PM | 21

@Demian

"Why on earth do you think Snowden was not a lone whistleblower?"

I think there had to be other forces at work - be it some other help on the inside or something. I think of similar leaks - like the Pentagon Papers - that occurred with the help of Senate staff by someone who ended up being deeply involved within the Robert Kennedy campaign.

I don't particularly buy the propaganda put out by sources close to the US intelligence community that he was working for Russia or China (or even Germany, I have heard) but I do think he accomplished far, far too much in a space that was far too secure to think he is just another Chelsea Manning who just gained access to some (rather easily accessible, it seems) documents, and then handed them over to a third party.

But what evidence do I have - well, none. It's just an opinion (as much one can hold an "opinion" on a matter of fact).

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 4:46:26 PM | 22

@guest77 #2 #3
I can't see any country not already openly a U.S. puppet supporting sanctions against Venezuela, anymore than they are onboard against Cuba.

As for Francis, the article you refers repeats unattributed accusations to the effect that Bergoglio was a finger man for the death squads ("he pointed out left-leaning priests to the military as dissidents."), and a renegade against his own Order, You would give a trial to a yellow dog before shooting it, wouldn't you? But there is no testimony and no evidence here, only a smear reminiscent of the methods of the junta itself.


Posted by: rackstraw | Mar 29, 2014 4:55:40 PM | 23

@20 I agree completely. Though it is unwise to think that the US government didn't also attempt to do exactly as you describe: "change Occupy strategy ...[by] form[ing] their own protest groups and ally-- or compete-- with Occupy".

The FBI did this in the 1970s by infiltrating - and even creating chapters of - opposition organizations. I think we have to assume they are doing similar things now.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 4:57:26 PM | 24

Theres a good interview with Lavrov at RT.com that I recommend.

Posted by: Anonynmous | Mar 29, 2014 5:02:38 PM | 25

@rackstraw (22) Just to be clear, I posted #2, but did not post #3 that contained the article you referenced.

I think there is a danger in the United States using the events in Venezuela to convince regional oil importers to accept US exports instead of Venezuelan ones - especially as an attempt to crack the CELAC/ALBA groupings. This seems to be the same game plan the US has in regards to Europe and Russia.

The US will use its newfound status as an oil producer to engage (read, infiltrate) countries that will hitherto been reliant on its so-called enemies. Especially weak, poor, countries such as those in the Caribbean and Central America. Venezuela has one advantage - its goodwill and willingness to do deals and even make barter contracts. The US will demand cold hard cash and lots of it, and will make the price "worth it" by threatening these small nations should they "break sanctions". If the mafia could patent such things, the US government might be paying them royalties at this point...

US attempts to secure hegemony are going into overdrive. That much is clear.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 5:08:50 PM | 26

My sense is that the State Department pretty much manages coups on its own now, without the White House having much of a hand in it. (An exception was Egypt: Susan Rice gave the go-ahead for the coup there, as was reported by the NY Times in an odd non-propagandistic piece that somehow slipped through and was then promptly forgotten.) I don't think Obama cares about neocons one way or the other. Some neocons are still in the State Department because powerful people want them there.

I am actually surprised by how many people are saying that it was Russia that stopped Obama from bombing Syria. I think that the real turning point was the UK Parliament voting against the attack. (Phone calls to Congress being 10 to 1 against an attack also played a role.) The parallels with Iraq were glaringly obvious: bombing an Arab country on false pretenses. Since Bush II had Blair solidly behind him when he invaded Iraq, but Obama could not get Britain behind him, there was in effect no "coalition of the willing", something the US likes to have when it starts destroying a country. My recollection, and I could be mistaken, is that the news came out that Obama had changed his mind about bombing Syria, and it was only after that that Lavrov announced that he was in talks with Syria about removing chemical weapons. So my impression is that what Putin did is remove pressure from Obama to strike Syria, but that this removal of pressure is not what made Obama decide not to bomb Syria.

As for the Ukraine, I see no forces there that could remove the oligarchs. As far as I know, all parties and politicians of any stature are either rabid nationalists and/or corrupt and intimately connected with oligarchs.

Even during the Yeltsin years, Russia still had one institution that had not been co-opted by the west and had a high level of competence: the FSB. That is where Putin came from. In contrast, the head of Ukrainian intelligence fled to Russia after the coup. This suggests that when the purges are finished, there will be no government bureaucrats in the Ukraine who are not incompetent and/or corrupt.

There is no way for the will and the interests of the Ukrainian people to find a coherent, sustained expression. Any political organizations that exist in the Ukraine were set up by the West. There may be decent people in Maidan who care about the welfare of all Ukrainians, by the Maidan is just a mob.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 29, 2014 5:09:09 PM | 27

A close look at who abstained at the UN vote about the Crimea referendum is quite interesting
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QzneYOOBTn4/UzWOoAuR9gI/AAAAAAAACc0/pufU0igQ1yY/s1600/Result+of+Crimea+vote+at+UNGA.jpg

Posted by: Mina | Mar 29, 2014 5:11:22 PM | 28

22

not quite

in argenitna as recently as 2010 he refused to answer questions at a tribunal in argentina on the grounds of self recrimination

& as for the priests & lay people, they have been scared out of their wits, one of the victims now in germany, is clearly profoundly traumatised.

he was ratzinger's choice & he is ratzinger's man

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 29, 2014 5:18:03 PM | 29

@13

Unfortunately - and obviously - I don't think we'll ever really know a la 9/11 - who was exactly behind Snowden, how exactly the/he pulled it off, etc. - but also like 9/11 I think that it is incumbent upon people to realize that his story and the people surrounding him - GG and others - stink like shit so engaging in supposition is all that's left after one concludes that without a doubt what the official/MSM line is bullshit.

I think that one of the great successes of the Snowden narrative - as with any false narrative - is that it allows TPTB the ability to completely control the parameters of the debate and people like Scott Creighton and others have been on this slant from nearly the very beginning. I read somewhere that Snowden's epic saga was very similar to Obama's health care reform: first it seems that the people finally have a person who gives a shit about them - i.e., Obama - and who is willing to help them with this massive problem - i.e., they're hooked. Then the narrative continues on and on with periodic reinforcements from the "savior" figure that something positive will be manifest when in the end the result is nearly 180 degrees from what any sane peon would want as the result is a total and complete sop to TPTB. In both cases, Obama and Snowden have themselves personally and repeatedly demarcated debate parameters beyond which it was totally unacceptable to go: Obama - single payer, Snowden - the need for "responsible" journos to be middlemen in leaking. Both statements are complete tells as to where their loyalties lie, imo.

Jon Rappaport from the beginning was the first that I know of who was pushing the theory that Snowden was still working for the CIA and this was inside baseball to knee cap the NSA as it was looking to become too powerful for the CIA to handle. There are a lot of points that have merit w/ this theory especially as it examines how suspiciously meteoric boy wonder's rise career was among other things.

However, taken it all together, I think that the difficulty with trying to unwrap these psyops is that intel agencies have gotten very good at creating actors and situations which they can almost allow to run themselves as they have gamed any number of outcomes each with their own benefits as they have abandoned attempting to go for total "successes/coups" as there's would be too much planning and too much can go wrong. Better to create naive actors that you've fed a load of horseshit to for years and let them do their "things" with only minimal guidance/nudging along the way. Someone here after the Pussy Riot affair stated that - make no mistake - the PR psyop was a cleverly intelligence-designed propaganda weapon aimed at directly at Putin. Most of the girls were a bunch of fucking nimrods making extra cash for getting to do stupid shit. All anyone had to do was tell them to pull this stunt or that stunt and then they basically could be counted upon to do their work without any knowledge of their larger context. In addition, the time frame for these psyops are longer than what would normally be expected. Pussy Riot is still getting whipped and doing stupid shit and they're not done yet and how many years has it been? Over the last 6 months we've seen Snowden's responsible journos align themselves with a billionaire who funds fascist putsches, what will the next 6 bring? Again, I've conjectured this before but if Snowden went missing in Russia - i.e. the cleaning up of loose ends by West? - you can be sure the "progressive" blogosphere would be leading the nuke Russia cheerleading. There are other possibilities obviously but I don't think this is done yet by a long shot. I'm sure Putin thinks correctly that once CIA always CIA vis a vis Snowden.

The fact that the affair Snowden happened not too long after all of that and he ended up in Russia - again, why would the US not allow him to leave Russia and come to the Western hemisphere? Either he's really a FSB and they were just covering their asses or they wanted him to stay but to leave him with NSA secrets/knowledge in Russia is a bit hard to swallow - makes me believe that he was led to go there and there may have been another act in the Snowden psyop that got foiled possibly by Putin. Instead of trying to grab him in the airport or making any direct move Putin just makes him sit there and it seemed like he chose correctly as no one knew what to do.

Anyways, I gotta run and could say more but at the end of the day I think that in the face of obvious officially touted horseshit stories like 9/11 and Snowden it's requisite that people should scream bullshit especially if the story aligns with their own hopes/beliefs and even if they don't know all of the details. If there's enough there that seems funny - and in the Snowden case I truly believe there is - then examinations of that "funniness" should take precedence over whether the outcomes/results of the narrative are good or bad as TPTB have directly told us that they are busy crafting their next narrative while we are left contemplating/discussing their last "reality" narrative. The only way to break the cycle is reflexively call bullshit all the time until we are given concrete proof. Americans especially should be so reflexive as it is our war criminal leaders that have been directly responsible for the murder/maiming/displacement of millions of innocents for decades.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 29, 2014 5:30:16 PM | 30

Mina, almost all of the abstained are the Non-aligned block, 58 of them is encouraging to me. The 11 no votes are basically the 'resistance' axis.

Posted by: okie farmer | Mar 29, 2014 5:30:26 PM | 31

@Mina:

Haha, Israel was absent! Fine ally, they. I wonder if some neocons have blown some fuses over that.

All BRICS countries (other than Russia) abstained. And such recipients of US military largesse as Afghanistan, Iraq, and Egypt also abstained. Serbia is so crushed that it was absent instead of voting no with its ally Russia.

Well, that table gives a good idea of what USG officials mean when they continue using the term "the free world".

Posted by: Demian | Mar 29, 2014 5:33:19 PM | 32

@27 Looks like $3B a year and all those solo "Y" votes in their defense doesn't even get Israel into the room for the US. What a laugh.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 5:36:02 PM | 33

This is actually pretty funny. From all appearances the clowns from Svoboda and Right Sector couldn't be serving Russia's interests better if they were on the payroll. Who's the biggest beneficiary of the IMF bailout? Russia, at least immediately:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/03/michael-hudson-real-logic-18-billion-ukraine-rescue-package.html

Funny - if you're not Ukrainian at least.

Posted by: TOwen | Mar 29, 2014 5:43:39 PM | 34

billmon and Strobe Talbott are having a friendly exchange on Twitter:

Strobe Talbott ‏@strobetalbott 6h
Those "extremists" in Ukraine Putin denounces? Kremlin funds them to destabilize the country & provide a pretense for Russian "protection."

billmon ‏@billmon1 2h
@strobetalbott Suggestion: Fly to Kyiv & tell Right Sector guys (the ones with the clubs & axes) they're ALL Putin's stooges. To their faces
…But make sure there's a video camera present -- I want to watch what happens next.

I would only add that I hope he gives advance notice. Have to get the popcorn ready!

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 29, 2014 5:49:06 PM | 35

@Petri (34)

I'm laughing my ass off over here. You haven't met a real conspiracy theorist until you've asked a US official to explain something. Then it's all the most outlandish shit you've ever heard: "Assad supports al Qaeda!" and "Putin funds Svoboda!"

My god.

But I think it all comes down to the old adage: "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive".

The US is so deep in it now - working at so many cross purposes and with so many bad actors on all sides - that really now they're willing to believe everyone else is up to the same thing.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 5:56:51 PM | 36

Nazrallah said today that if the Takferis were to win in Syria "we would come to an end", that's very true, which is why Israel/US want want the Islamists to win, when Assad finishes the Islamists off, he needs to furnish Hez with all the latest weaponry including ground to air missiles.

Posted by: harrylaw | Mar 29, 2014 5:59:51 PM | 37

Da Russophile has a nice pic that says it all about old/new Ukraine

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 6:02:31 PM | 38

on rt at present. it will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.

Damascus requests UN probe into Turkey’s ‘incursion plan’ leak

The Syrian government has asked the UN to conduct an investigation into the leaked record, in which top Turkish officials are allegedly discussing a plan to stage a false flag attack to justify a military operation against Syria. The audio file was uploaded on YouTube and prompted Ankara to ban the service in Turkey in response, citing national security concerns.

Posted by: james | Mar 29, 2014 6:11:59 PM | 39

@30
South Africa abstained, understandable, our government is split between traditional European alliances and the rising Chinese tide in Africa. Most Southerm African countries abstained it appears.
Zimbabwe however voted "No" ... but i wouldn't class them as resistance. Mugabe would be the first to order live ammunition against any region threatening secession.
Infographic of the free world indeed @31.

Posted by: david | Mar 29, 2014 6:14:19 PM | 40

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 5:56:51 PM | 35

They are bound to be infiltrated by several sides. Like German Neo-Nazis are infiltrated by the Verfassungs-Schutz. It usually does get messy to make out who is doing what why for whom.

There is an international secret service state of the art. The problem is not that Ukrainian Neo Nazis exist. The problem is that the Kyiv government that got recognized by US/EU is not able to distance themselves from them.

They seem to have been forced now to distance themselves from Pravy Sector - if they survive this remains to be seen. There is still Svoboda.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29, 2014 6:17:12 PM | 41

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 5:56:51 PM | 35

Surprise, surprise (as Gomer used to say). I'm sorry it's such a disappointment for you that Putin and Obama are talking and making up. No nuclear war. Awe shucks! Can we get a refund? Maybe next time. Yeah, right. I'll have a post up about this in the next couple of days. There were such high hopes for a showdown at the Okay Corral. Instead, yet another dud. Where's the nuclear war we were promised? I feel cheated. You charlatan bastards. You come up empty (wheel?) again?

Putin thanks you for your service. He and his friends are that much wealthier now. At this rate, they'll be trillionaires in no time. And you? Just some two-bit hack carrying their water on the internet as they lounge in their expanding lap of luxury. Meet the New Leftists…same as the Old Rightists.

Posted by: Cold N. Holefield | Mar 29, 2014 6:21:29 PM | 42

i think is is both practically & ideologically wrong to underestimate the fascists

it is also wrong to overestimate western intelligence service, because the proof is in the pudding & for 50 years it has been one debacle after another

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 29, 2014 6:23:54 PM | 43

Posted by: james | Mar 29, 2014 6:11:59 PM | 38

German politicians are asking for consequences. There are some German NATO soldiers protecting Turkey on the Syrian border who potentially would get involved in reaction to Turkish false flags.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29, 2014 6:24:38 PM | 44

41

clown

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 29, 2014 6:25:28 PM | 45

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 29, 2014 6:23:54 PM | 42

Including Hitler who did work for German intelligence at one stage and that is more than 50 years back.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 29, 2014 6:26:42 PM | 46

"We will stay here until the authority becomes normal and not corrupt, until everything becomes okay," insists Roman, 23, who is among the die-hard protesters still living in the tents covering the Maidan square and an adjoining boulevard. [...]

"It is necessary to show the new authority that we are here, and we control them. We want them to remember that they were elected by Maidan, it is their responsibility."

Well, at least these guys exist as a barometer of the "revolution". We'll know that Ukraine is truly back in the hands of the oligarchs when the new government publicly murders these hold outs - in precisely the way they all claimed the former government had done.

Looks like a decision was made amongst the Timoschenko clique - we'll work with these fascists if it means getting rid of the competing oligarchs. And then - the plan surely continues - we'll shoot them all dead.

It wouldn't be the first time, though, a group of oligarchs thought this one up. It didn't work out so well for Germany or Italy.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 6:39:08 PM | 47

Regarding Snowden, there are two reasons why I find his actions suspicious in the sense that he is some sort of freedom-fighter. The first is that there is no history for it. Quite the opposite, he appears to be a good little cog in the wheel. His entire career has been spent in intelligence. This appears to be his latest assignment.

The other reason, and here I may be trapped by historical precedent, is that this is all too reminiscent of the CIA's false defector program of the late fifties. There were eight or nine defectors in a short period at the end of the fifties, military people, Rand employees, etc., who all defected to the Soviet Union. One was Lee Harvey Oswald. Oswald was supposed to have been part of the Atsugi U-2 program (I say supposed to because there are indications that the CIA had two Oswalds, one who spoke Russian and the other who worked at Atsugi).

At the end of his administration Eisenhower was trying to hold peace talks in Paris with the USSR in the hopes of ending the Cold War. He ordered that there be no U-2 overflights of the USSR leading up to the talks. Then Francis Gary Powers was shot down. So, the CIA disregarded Eisenhower's orders, and losing the U-2 killed the peace talks. The tell was that before Powers flew the CIA took out its top secret surveillance camera and replaced it with a less technically-advanced unit. The CIA were willing to sacrifice a U-2 to continue the Cold War, but there wasn't any point in giving the Russians their best camera.

Oswald was later blamed in some neocon circles as having given the Soviets secrets that enabled them to shoot down Powers, but, of course, he was never prosecuted upon his return to the US.

In that context I look at Snowden and wonder what he has accomplished. Most people who have done anti-fascist research know that the US, post-WWII, has conducted massive and continuing domestic spying on dissidents. In the mid-nineties it was clear that Echelon was going to eventually open up all electronic communications to government spying. The only question was how big a hard drive would the NSA need and how well could they sort out all their information.

In fact, widespread public knowledge, while it brings down Obama's poll numbers, does nothing to remedy the situation. Even Feinstein's latest yowl offers no real legislative remedy to the status quo.

So to what end is Snowden? For a time his revelations seemed timed to embarrass Obama, so it's not unrealistic to think that at some level he is being used to hurt Obama's (and Democrats') numbers. At one point it looked as if publicity gains were accruing to Merkel. I really can't discern who the author of Snowden is.

By the way, while I am not sure of Obama's relationship with the permanent government of the US, I'm not sure if it's relevant other than as another performer on the stage. A drum majorette leads the parade through town but she doesn't draw up the parade route.

Posted by: Bob In Portland | Mar 29, 2014 6:41:01 PM | 48

somebody

hh was used as a lowly informer by the general staff to attend meetings, most probably paid for pastels

& it was just after the war so in the earlyn20's, nearly 100 years ago

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 29, 2014 6:45:58 PM | 49

@cold handjob/41 keep quacking, you idiot. A guy from a country seething with corrupt billionaires are really going to start inventing shit about Putin being "a Trillionaire"? You might want to watch out with that kind of propaganda, it might just come back to bite you neoliberal hags in your ass...

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 6:53:51 PM | 50

That NY Tim piece you cited, Demian, citing Susan Rice giving permission to military coup had a lot of anonymous quotes, generally no proof, and the authors had a long history of printing grotesquely untrue perspectives, not the least of which was the hugely exxagerated numbers of anti-morsi protesters calling for his ouster. I personally haven't found them, or the times in general, to be as reliable as one might wish on egypt.

Posted by: Talbot | Mar 29, 2014 6:59:20 PM | 51

@Talbot:

Yes, that was an odd story. I wanted to put the gist of it into the Wikipedia article about the coup, but couldn't because I couldn't find a second "reliable source" that made the same claims.

In fact, I haven't seen any other article which gives a chronology of how the coup occurred.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 29, 2014 7:08:19 PM | 52

Adding briefly:

Also, "successful" - from the CIA et al POV regarding the Snowden tale is:

1) to catch the eye of the public the next whistle-blower is going to have to actually be Jason Bourne involved in a fucking shootout on the rooftop of Langley - obviously married to Lady GaGa, natch - who is whisked away - during prime time TV, of course - in the nick of time by a mysterious Malaysian helicopter that disappears forever. Seriously, Snowden and his warmed over info pushed other whistleblowers into the background with the media-hyped insistence that he had stolen so much AWESUM intel AND it raised the bar for future whistleblowers in that how can you possible compete with the cutesy, amazingly well-spoken, kind of slackerish, boy wonder who never fails to mention how much he sacrificed - hot chick, Hawaiian paradise etc. - to keep freedom alive as he pranced around the globe and kept everyone guessing. Again, any questioning of the massively viewed false flag of 9/11 was successfully muted by the MSM. Why all the attention given to Snowden?

2) with the Omidyar/GG dynamic duo creating the good whistleblower/bad whistleblower storyline vis a vis Snowden versus Manning as detailed by hartzie at Rancid Honeytrap it's built up a narrative that whisteblowers should be use/trust members of the press to vet leaked info and that "responsible" journos is the legitimate route to go for getting stories out to the public. Seriously, we are talking about the CIA/NSA and a host of organizations that are directly fucking responsible for countless murders etc and yet we're told time and again by these people that the proper route is one that DOESN'T ENDANGER ANY OF THEIR OPERATIONS?!!! Yup, wouldn't want to slow down the mass-murder/mayhem machine. God forbid.

3) Similar to 2, by establishing First Look and scooping up a bevy of "progressive" journos - Scahill, Taibbi, Wheeler, etc - it basically creates THE mechanism by which conscientious people will be allowed to spill any other secrets. Gotta secret? Go to Glenn and company. They'll publish your shit (after a careful vetting and revetting process that will take years but - hey - you can wait, right? Gotta make sure we're not interfering in the creation of any more murder/mayhem!) In addition, GG and the gang don't talk about it, why - the "serious" people will tell us - then I'm sure it's not important cuz look at their journo track record!! If something doesn't get the GG et al "seal of approval" - remember, these guys are depicted as being part of the "radical" set in the US, hold your laughter - then it must be TOTALLY INSANE aka conspiracy city.

really gotta go.

Posted by: JSorrentine | Mar 29, 2014 7:15:05 PM | 53

I think a lot of people are picking on Snowden because he hasn't brought down the house of cards. TPTB just absorb every punch and nothing changes. Each new revelation quickly becomes a yawn. I don't know what you do about that.

Posted by: dh | Mar 29, 2014 7:37:06 PM | 54

thanks for billmon pointer @34

via which this latest from mindfuck theater

http://20committee.com/2014/03/29/understanding-provocation/

Posted by: rjj | Mar 29, 2014 7:59:54 PM | 55

Re Svoboda's Party Platform (see comment 17), I thought this part worth chewing over, a fascist/nationalist's wet dream:

9. Restore the nuclear status of Ukraine due to violations of the Budapest Memorandum by Russia (one of the guarantors of security of Ukraine): conflicts around Tuzla island and the Kerch Strait, direct threats, brutal political and economic pressure, regular attempts of officials to question the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Restore tactical missile and nuclear arsenal state. Appeal to the U. S. and the UK to promote and support the nuclear program in Ukraine.

That last quote is really funny... the way the final sequence in Dr. Strangelove is a howler!

Posted by: Jeff Kaye | Mar 29, 2014 8:02:21 PM | 56

@dh:

Good point. I think Chris Floyd was one of the first to predict that little was going to change from Snowden's revelations.

When it comes to conspiracy theories about recent events, I am much more interested in inconsistencies in the official account of the Boston Marathon bombing, and the shooting in Florida of a friend of Tamerlan Tsarnaev, during an interrogation by only one FBI agent. (FBI protocol calls for two agents to be present at interrogations, because the FBI bizarrely does not permit interviews to be recorded.)

Posted by: Demian | Mar 29, 2014 8:06:48 PM | 57

54

silly, very silly

turnign in this instance is a mathematical equation & the truth is neither so simple nor so oblique

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 29, 2014 8:31:56 PM | 58

#52 Why all the attention given to Snowden?

Because he has done more to undermine the police/security state than any other single individual in the last century. It quite incomprehensible to me for anyone who believes they are fighting US imperialism to feel jealous of his accomplishments.

Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 29, 2014 8:34:18 PM | 59

Book suggestion for people interested in the cold war history of Guatemala - a country where the United States sponsored one of its first cold war coups, supporting a tiny, economic elite against its poor and indigenous population, in a country where serfdom survived into the 1960s.

The Last Colonial Massacre: Latin America in the Cold War by Greg Grandin

After decades of bloodshed and political terror, many lament the rise of the left in Latin America. Since the triumph of Castro, politicians and historians have accused the left there of rejecting democracy, embracing communist totalitarianism, and prompting both revolutionary violence and a right-wing backlash. Through unprecedented archival research and gripping personal testimonies, Greg Grandin powerfully challenges these views in this classic work. In doing so, he uncovers the hidden history of the Latin American Cold War: of hidebound reactionaries holding on to their power and privilege; of Mayan Marxists blending indigenous notions of justice with universal ideas of equality; and of a United States supporting new styles of state terror throughout the region.

With Guatemala as his case study, Grandin argues that the Latin American Cold War was a struggle not between political liberalism and Soviet communism but two visions of democracy—one vibrant and egalitarian, the other tepid and unequal—and that the conflict’s main effect was to eliminate homegrown notions of social democracy. Updated with a new preface by the author and an interview with Naomi Klein, The Last Colonial Massacre is history of the highest order—a work that will dramatically recast our understanding of Latin American politics and the role of the United States in the Cold War and beyond.

“This work admirably explains the process in which hopes of democracy were brutally repressed in Guatemala and its people experienced a civil war lasting for half a century.”—International History Review

“A richly detailed, humane, and passionately subversive portrait of inspiring reformers tragically redefined by the Cold War as enemies of the state.”—Journal of American History

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 8:40:35 PM | 60

another version of this theory is that the soviets were in an offensive position when invasion barbarossa began - demonstrably untrue but a very bad attempt to blame the soviet union for that invasion

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 29, 2014 8:41:13 PM | 61

@19 Guest 77 I may be a tad naive here, but I think the Syrian stand down had a lot to do with the US publics bombardment of their "sElected reprehensibles" with messages of "don't you fucking dare - we're sick of war" I read of some congressional offices saying calls/faxes & emails were running at 1000 - 1 against any R2P involvement.

@56 The Boston Bombing is as hinkey as it gets & so was the Florida shooting.

Posted by: DonNeedNoSUserName | Mar 29, 2014 8:52:58 PM | 62

@54 r'giap nailed it: silly. All this kind of budding propaganda shows is the deviousness of someone alright, but it isn't the Russians.

The plot twist of this Ukrainian pulp putsch might be a little too hackneyed for its own good. Are the fascist goon squads - convinced by Western bankers and the Ukrainian oligarchs to suffer in the freezing cold and engage in a desperate, bloody face off against the Ukrainian police and even shot dead by hired snipers - to be accused by those they brought to power as being ... wait for it ... Russian agents?!

It's enough to make you feel bad for them, if they weren't terrorists and nazi scum. Of course, I suspect that they are big boys and can take care of themselves. The question then to ask is this: are the Ukrainian oligarchs and the western intelligence agents that infest the country have the guns and the guts to care for themselves as well? Having made Right Sektor - for all intents and purposes - the only organized wielder of violent power in the state do they really think they'll be able to so qucikly turn the tables on them?

Things could get very interesting very quick. If the oligarchs decide to start flinging accusations at the nazis, we may well see Tymoschenko's braids (and the head that they're attached to) at a decidedly unhealthy distance from the rest of her body...

Of course, the idea of a westerner writing "Russians have perfected the art and taken it to a whole new level of sophistication and deviousness" strains credulity, considering that the number of westerners convinced to join terrorist groups and then promptly (or not so promptly, perhaps, in the case of the Boston attacks) arrested is too numerous to count. More often than not honeytrapped takfiris bound for Syria found themselves not fighting for Allah, but fighting for a bunk in an American prison.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 9:11:11 PM | 63

@61 Agreed. I do not want to try and to discount the role the American public played in preventing the war. There were certainly many factors at work - the publics response, as well as the UK parliaments "no" all played a huge part.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 9:15:26 PM | 64

@Jeff Kaye

It's an astonishing document. Here is the "Fatherland" party platform: http://frontzmin.ua/mediafiles/pdf/ZA_prog.pdf

It is in Ukrainian (clearly), but a quick "select all" copy paste into Google Translate does the trick.

It's an astonishing raft of feel-good promises regarding pensions, social security, and anti-corruption measures for a government that promises to be "the most unpopular ever".

One of the first lines: "We will remove ... Yanukovych [from] power through fair and democratic elections."

The first of many promises broke, no doubt.

There are astonishing promises to increase pensions despite the fact that they're being reduced (I've mixed some sections together here, and the translation is awful):

• A state in which the national wealth is used for needs of society rather than to enrich a handful of officials and oligarchs; • A state in which everyone can own labor to earn a decent life of his family and secure a decent retirement;

We will promptly refund to the applicable pension legislation norm (" Amendment number 40 ") introduced by the opposition and removed the ruling majority , which would allow simultaneously increase pensions by an average of 334 hryvnia. We will restore fairness in pension provision million citizens who honestly worked and are working for the benefit of Ukraine . Anti-pension reform current government will be canceled.

• promptly approve the amendments to the Law of Ukraine "On Mandatory State social insurance " for the purpose of pension modernization ;
• approve the new Law of Ukraine "On the reform of the pension system ";
• approve the legislation necessary for the stable filling the Pension Fund.

And of course the neoliberal program is described - the elimination of state regulations and a reduction of taxes.

Instead, the Tax Code the current government that strangles entrepreneurs, we take a new - Economic Code growth. The number of taxes will be reduced , their rates reduced Paying - simplified. The new tax code will allow you to create new jobs with decent salary.

The state does not interfere with businesses. We simplify the process of opening and closing a business, liquidate criminal system " guards " unscheduled inspections and " routine " requisitions. Business will be protected from the " controllers " in uniform and without.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 9:44:02 PM | 65

@Mina 27:

I always like to look at the head count.

Posted by: john francis lee | Mar 29, 2014 9:47:08 PM | 66

↷ 59 "Since the triumph of Castro, politicians and historians have accused the left there of rejecting democracy, embracing communist totalitarianism,"

There was no Triumph of Castro, and Fidel has said as much: Nobody knows how socialism is supposed to work, yet.

"politicians and historians" which ones?

"have accused the left there of rejecting democracy, embracing communist totalitarianism,"

Ooh, I'm supposed to be shuddering now. The horror! The horror!

"and prompting both revolutionary violence and a right-wing backlash"

That's cute. In other words the right-wing is defending itself?

Posted by: ruralito | Mar 29, 2014 9:50:58 PM | 67

Kommesrant (via google translate) is reporting that Klitschko will run for Mayor of Kiev.

Also, the illegal coup government will rush to write a new constitution in the three weeks before the upcoming May 25th presidential elections - because democracy, of course.

This is really a revolting display. Fascism and oligarchy at its worst. A rush by an unelected coup government - installed by a violent mob, no less - to rewrite the country's constitution in a three week period before they face the the verdict of the people? That shows some real fucking confidence that they're popular, doesn't it...

That the west wants to call this a democracy in any way shape or form is absolutely criminal.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 9:54:41 PM | 68

@66 Please note "historians have accused" and "[the author] powerfully challenges these views"

The book is entirely about destroying accusations that you have listed in your post, it absolutely does not advance them.

It is a book that absolutely flattens U.S. cold war propaganda that the left in Central America was dictatorial and anti-democratic. It reveals it as a struggle between a genocidal right-wing elite, and the indigenous (and latino) peasants who infused their fight with ideals picked up from 20th century socialism.

Knowing your posts here, you'd like it, is my guess.

Posted by: guest77 | Mar 29, 2014 10:02:35 PM | 69

#60
So the 2 years build up to Operation Groza, "Thunderstorm," to sovietise all Europe never happened? and Adolf wanted to conquer the world and/or just kill Slav Untermensch!!

We are years into the God given internet. R-giap, please let go of the holocaust narrative. It is a false religion whose concepts are strict obsessions unique to the Goy-hating hunchbacks who think they descend from the Christ killers—thus that their blood is divinely cursed. What must an unmentionable, fearful absurdity do to a human being's mind? - A good JewBoy never rats on the tribe. He takes his medicine; he goes to Hell. It is not his fault! It is God's!!

Everybody welcomed the Germans because they drove out the criminally insane Talmudists.

[Extracts from McLellan Letter 20Feb1998]"...the NKVD slaughtered their prisoners en masse. Coming on the heels of the mass deportations and growing Soviet terror, these executions fuelled the West Ukrainians’ abhorrence of the Soviets. When the Germans arrived in Lvov on 29 June, the city stank, and the prisons were surrounded by terrified relatives. Unimaginable atrocities had occurred inside. The prisons looked like abattoirs. It had taken the NKVD a week to complete their gruesome task before they fled. About 5,000 people were killed. The arrests and killings had taken place under the leadership of Jewish functionaries and with the participation of the Jewish inhabitants. That was why the citizens so hated the Jewish population. In Pleskau [Pskov] the population is in general convinced that it is mostly the Jews who should be held responsible for the atrocities that are committed everywhere."

The organisers of the recent coup had to guard against this history, and did so with the standard ultra-nationalist, "fascist," neo-Nazi, dispensable false flag to which the West declares no objection unless, of course, the patsies become an embarrassment, which at present they have.

Posted by: Michaël | Mar 29, 2014 10:10:23 PM | 70

↷ 69 "What must an unmentionable, fearful absurdity do to a human being's mind?" LOL! That's easy enough to see.

Posted by: ruralito | Mar 29, 2014 10:24:30 PM | 71

23

I've always felt that Occupy and TeaParty were both pre-scripted NSA hangout operations. I'm sure the folks who joined the Movement-Already-In-Progress really believed the pitch.
But who came up with that pitch and who directed the abyssmal strategic planning?

How else can you explain the upper-quintile TeaParty with our Last Savings, effetely throwing barbs at an Executive and Congress bought and paid for by Citizens Uniteds??

And how else can you explain the lower-quintile Occupy with none of the Last Savings effetely camping out, as the Wall Street Elites pissed down on their upturned faces?

Both the groups sprang up under scurrilous and spurious psyops circumstances.
Both groups had pre-scripted Mark of the Beast on their frothy fevered pitch.
Both groups marched them up the hill, and then they marched them down again.

Charades!

Had TeaParty pensioners instead occupied Wall Street, with all their purchasing power, holdback sanctions and lasting strength, it would've brought Wall Street to its knees.

And Occupy hoi polloi stormed Casa Blanca and Ziomedia circus with their 100,000s all willing to do prison time, well, we wouldn't be having these NSA conversations today.

It is virtually a statistical impossibility that they 'randomly' became what they were.
Instead, all that energy, that life force, like a herd of stampeding buffalo, was led off into side canyons and slaughtered mercilessly by Ziomedia, until they're just a talking point today, a focus phrase, a puerile skid mark in the US history of the oiligarchs.

Posted by: Chip Nikh | Mar 29, 2014 10:35:05 PM | 72

↷ 68, sorry, blew a gasket there.

Posted by: ruralito | Mar 29, 2014 10:39:42 PM | 73

progressive or regressive? my letter to Raw Story on being blocked from commenting

hello Raw Story
You posted an article on Steven Segal and Russia:
Steven Seagal favors Putin over Obama and says he may emigrate to Russia | The Raw Story

and on your FB page this appears:
The Raw Story
7 hrs ·
We'll help you pack, hairball!
-------------
is this your idea of progressive journalism? to nastily libel a public figure?
'Raw Story is a progressive news site that focuses on stories often ignored in the mainstream media. While giving coverage to the big stories of the day, we also bring our readers' attention to policy, politics, legal and human rights stories that get ignored in an infotainment culture driven solely by pageviews.

I posted some comments criticising your view that Segal was wrong to support Putin over Obama as well as the barrage of vitriol your other readers endulged themslves: sample:
aceshigh • an hour ago
What a treasonous, un-American piece of shit.

Get the fuck out of my country, you lowlife right-wing cretin, and take Nugent with you, you douchenozzle.

Yet i was blocked and none of these libelous posters were. : 'We are unable to post your comment because you have been blocked by Raw Story. Find out more.'
care to explain?

and while at it, why is Raw Story supporting a fascist regime (Svoboda was rebuked in 2012 by EU for its fascism) that took power in Kiev by force?
Kiev snipers hired by Maidan leaders - leaked EU's Ashton phone tape
Shame on Raw Story...no better than Fox

regards

Posted by: brian | Mar 29, 2014 11:15:30 PM | 74

"Progressives" seem to be as stupid and hate-filled as Tea Partiers these days. And the only thing they seem to care about is gay rights, which lets them hate Russians better.

One comment: "Unlike Putin, President Obama was democratically elected. When did so many Americans have such adoration for dictators?" As Nora said, Americans don't think: they just unthinkingly repeat what they get fed by the TV.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 29, 2014 11:33:11 PM | 75

another *leak* which somehow bolster the pentagon's charge of the ubiquitous pla hackers ?

*The N.S.A., for example, is tracking more than 20 Chinese hacking groups — more than half of them Chinese Army and Navy units — as they break into the networks of the United States government, companies including Google, and drone and nuclear-weapon part makers, according to a half-dozen current and former American officials.

If anything, they said, the pace has increased since the revelation last year that some of the most aggressive Chinese hacking originated at a People’s Liberation Army facility, Unit 61398, in Shanghai.*

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html?_r=0

Posted by: denk | Mar 29, 2014 11:34:48 PM | 76

Posted by: brian | Mar 29, 2014 11:15:30 PM | 73

I think the name "Raw Story" was chosen as a homage to being chronically butt sore. Both, by the staff reflecting their "professional" relationships to each other, and to reflect the sort of people who take their "news" seriously.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 29, 2014 11:50:37 PM | 77

69

i don't even bother to scan such filth

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 29, 2014 11:58:30 PM | 78

American exceptionalism: 63% of American whites but only 36% of blacks support the death penalty.

There’s no separating capital punishment from its role, in part, as a tool of racial control.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 30, 2014 12:38:02 AM | 79

#71
Occupy and the Tea Party were clearly Hate establishment containment operations. Occupy was observable as such because they had zero strategy to threaten financial super crime. Smirking Georgie Schwatz/Soros applauded the hippy wankers. The tactic to “occupy Wall Street” is meaningless. And the Tea Party was a routine operation to control both ends of an argument, like left wing and right. Right wing is merely leftist talk for the opposition, the bad guys, like fascist. Both sides take direction from the secret (satanic?) societies. But the worshipful Republican catamites were so subtle this time that simple decent patriots, seeing no cunning, joined up in serious numbers and started winning elections they were not meant to contest.

On reflection, we bloggers can keep scribbling and achieve nothing until the country's moral elite invades the GOP to reinforce the battling TeaParty conservatives who, I gather, are a real headache for the worshipful globalists. They control all viable parties because nationalists remain aloof from the contest.

Posted by: Michaël | Mar 30, 2014 1:14:21 AM | 80

@michelle @12

This is an American Blog - what are you ?

Posted by: Marc | Mar 30, 2014 1:34:47 AM | 81

28 this is the case in question

And this is a good summary on what was/is at stake for the church in Argenina, and what Bergoglio is accused of.

And this is the story told the other way round: Bergoglio's list

Basically in Argentina, he was in a position to save people - or not.

This here is a mainstream - FP account of what he did

But it may be the church's ambiguous stance during Argentina's last dictatorship, which lasted from 1976 to 1983, that has done the most to damage the institution's credibility.

Bergoglio, who was also the head of the church's Argentine Jesuit order, has been harshly criticized for his role during this period, when as estimated 30,000 people were disappeared or killed. In continuing trials, members of the church have even been convicted for human rights crimes.

All this has devastated the church's credibility, according to José Casanova, a sociologist of religion at Georgetown University's Berkley Center. The Argentine church "compromised itself by playing a role much more tied to the powers that be," Casanova said.

Unlike the nuns and priests in El Salvador, Chile, Brazil and the Dominican Republic who spoke out against dictatorship, often becoming victims to it, very few members of Argentina's church denounced the dictatorship of Gen. Jorge Videla, currently serving multiple life sentences for human rights crimes. This near-absolute silence has been interpreted since as acquiescence, and even complicity.

Perhaps for this reason, Bergoglio's efforts to present a more charismatic church fell flat.

Estela de Carlotto, the president of the Grandmothers of the Plaza de Mayo, a human rights group formed in 1977 that focuses on identifying grandchildren born to mothers in captivity and appropriated by military families, has accused Bergoglio of being "part of the church that has obscured the country's history."

Posted by: somebody | Mar 30, 2014 1:38:50 AM | 82

@ brian 73 and @ demian 74

I don't know what a "progressive" is...Once it was a Republican that preferred Teddy Roosevelt and Nationalism over Wal Street and "Internationalism". Now its the ignorant goofballs that hang out on Huffington post and swat the (undeniably slimey) "tea party" trolls making comments that are comparing Obamas wife and daughters to Monkeys - normal people would avoid engaging in conversations with such lice, but they think they are really doing their part for the blue team..You have to admit though after the Ukraine operation - western media INCLUDING EUROPEAN MEDIA is horrible. Nothing but propaganda of the rankest,basest type , and where is it any better ? Britain ?? Don't make me laugh. Australia?? Don't make me cry...Germany ??The leader of the German Greens is practically calling for an new German Panzer assault on Russia, so I really don't want to hear any snotty comments about "ignorant americans" from the EUmaidam...

Posted by: Marc | Mar 30, 2014 1:45:59 AM | 83

Posted by: Michaël | Mar 29, 2014 10:10:23 PM | 69

No, they were not welcome. German Nazis killed Russians, Poles, Roma and Sinti, Jews, Communists, Anarchists, Social Democrats who had a spine, priests who had a spine, homosexuals and anybody else who strongly disagreed with them like Jehova's witnesses in concentration camps. Some people fulfilled several criteria.

The people who welcomed German Nazis in Eastern Europe were fascists interested in ethnic cleansing. And that did not save these fascists from ending up in a concentration camp like Stepan Bandera when he stopped being useful.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 30, 2014 1:52:28 AM | 84

Posted by: Marc | Mar 30, 2014 1:45:59 AM | 82

"Republican that preferred Teddy Roosevelt and Nationalism over Wal Street and "Internationalism"

Teddy R. was in the later category. Christ, this site is full of bullshitters.

Posted by: scalawag | Mar 30, 2014 1:53:39 AM | 85

Posted by: Michele | Mar 29, 2014 2:55:04 PM | 12

Autism is a great metaphor.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 30, 2014 1:54:19 AM | 86

@ 83 Its called and encyclopedia -Teddy Roosevelt..read about him some time

Posted by: Marc | Mar 30, 2014 1:57:27 AM | 87

@Michelle 84...Huh?

Posted by: Marc | Mar 30, 2014 1:57:52 AM | 88

Posted by: Michaël | Mar 29, 2014 10:10:23 PM | 69

They were welcomed by "ultra nationalists" interested in ethnic cleansing, by no one else.
That did not prevent these murderers from ending up in concentration camps when they had lost their usefulness, like Stepan Bandera.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 30, 2014 1:59:17 AM | 89

Posted by: remembererringgiap | Mar 29, 2014 6:45:58 PM | 48

They always cultivate these people. They are used to frighten populations into authoritarian rule.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 30, 2014 2:03:30 AM | 90

Posted by: dh | Mar 29, 2014 7:37:06 PM | 53

The effect in the provinces eg Germany is huge. This here is Der Spiegel, a media that is used for all kinds of messages.

Germans were brainwashed into believing GDR STASI was exceptionally evil - and now find out it was not.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 30, 2014 2:28:26 AM | 91

how many ways to skin a cat ?
how many ways to fix a non compliant government ?
jihadists, *dissidents*, separatists, r2p n........*human rights* !!
what a coincidence, another china friendly country gonna bite the dust.
unhrc strikes again....
http://www.countercurrents.org/cc280314.htm

Posted by: denk | Mar 30, 2014 2:44:40 AM | 92

billmon ‏@billmon1 7h
Face it neoliberalcons (cc: @20committee) if Right Sector's been converted into a Russian front org, Putin has you totally outclassed (4)

billmon ‏@billmon1 7h
AND somehow stage managed Ukranian cops killing Right Sector leader in W. Ukraine - right wing nationalist stronghold. (3)

billmon ‏@billmon1 7h
...Which means in just 4 weeks, FSB completely infiltrated the movement, seized control, and turned it against the new govt in Kyiv (2)

billmon ‏@billmon1 7h
Funny thing about neoliberalcon theory that Right Sector is on Russian payroll: Exact same guys who a month ago overthrew Putin’s pet. (1)

Posted by: brian | Mar 30, 2014 2:54:06 AM | 93

billmon @billmon1 8h
@iwelsh The great thing about Twitter is that it encourages economy of form in ridiculing establishment jackasses like @strobetalbott.

Strobe Talbott @strobetalbott 16h
Those "extremists" in Ukraine Putin denounces? Kremlin funds them to destabilize the country & provide a pretense for Russian "protection."

billmon
@billmon1
@strobetalbott Suggestion: Fly to Kyiv & tell Right Sector guys (the ones with the clubs & axes) they're ALL Putin's stooges. To their faces

billmon @billmon1 12h
@strobetalbott But make sure there's a video camera present -- I want to watch what happens next.

Posted by: brian | Mar 30, 2014 3:04:42 AM | 94

Re #69 and atrocities -

probably true, but not complete - however, important because such stories of atrocities, like the much more recent bombings of wedding parties and funerals and granny collecting vegetables, will stay in people's memories for a very long time. Just a USian example - Timothy McVey's motivation for the bombing in Oklahoma City was reported to have been a revenge for the Waco Texas massacre by the feds.

The only thing that I can say about Lvov in Western Ukraine is that right after the speedy Soviet retreat, and just as the first Germans were arriving - scouts on motorcycles -
- as reported to me
- the city stank of rotting meat,
- everybody was crying together, whether they were middle class or working class, Polish or Ukrainian
- and that there was a Polish working man who wept over the body of a girl, crying, "she was only 12."
- bodies were piled up high in the prisons

Within a few days, the new German authorities stopped allowing access to the prisons for fear of diseases spreading.

Now, any rational person would have decided - nothing could be worse than this ... 18 months of living under this Communist Paradise.

Sometime after the Soviet invasion - some rabbis in Lvov had quietly let it be known that people ought to be cautious about complaining about the Communists publicly on the street, because the Jews had lost control of some of their children, who were now eager to become junior informers. Thee was a huge fear of speaking out - Indeed, there was (reported to me) a case where after the Soviets had retreated, a husband told his wife how happy he was, no more Communists - and she promptly divorced him.

There is still a huge need for a "Truth & Reconciliation" like in South Africa. The South Africans were unusually, immensely lucky.

Posted by: Night Owl | Mar 30, 2014 3:24:09 AM | 95

All of this is ancient history. What matters is that Russia has been able to go forward from the Soviet period and modernize whereas the Ukraine is stuck in the past, both in that Ukrainian identity is stuck in what happened during World War II, and in that the Ukraine still has the kind of gangster economy that Russia had in the 1990s. The only thing that can save the Ukraine from the fate of Greece—an IMF-imposed depression—is Russia, but western Ukrainian nationalists would rather go through a brutal austerity regimen than allow Russia to help them fix their economy, because they are hopelessly stuck in the hatreds of the past.

Posted by: Demian | Mar 30, 2014 3:37:41 AM | 96

#2 Venezuela -

The continued US hostility to Venezuela is not likely to result in much if any advantage to the US - Chavez was able to outwit the US at every turn, and Maduro, his chosen successor, is as capable.

If the Vatican gets involved in bringing peace, or at least less hate, that would be of benefit - after all, stringing wire across a city intersection so that random people on scooters or motorcycles travelling at night get decapitated is probably not within the spirit of the New Testament. A good theological argument could be made.

And soon the US may have more to worry about - not just Venezuela and a possible Russian military base -

Novosti Press - reported elsewhere too.

Russia is planning to expand its permanent military presence outside its borders by placing military bases in a number of foreign countries, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Wednesday.
Shoigu said the list includes Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, the Seychelles, Singapore and several other countries.

Elsewhere, the news about the completion of the Orthodox Cathedral in Havana, "Our Lady of Kazan" which can accommodate 500 people at a time, is quite interesting. Russia is back in Cuba, and settling in.

Posted by: Night Owl | Mar 30, 2014 3:58:19 AM | 97

Interesting blog (in a perfect English, for once), here
http://annaraccoon.com/2014/03/28/the-ukraine-the-pain-and-the-gain/

JLF, Thanks but can you explain me the difference? How does it work?

Posted by: Mina | Mar 30, 2014 4:06:34 AM | 98

93)94)

The problem with this discussion is that is is done along the old nationalistic fault lines - what "Russians", "Poles", "Jews", "Germans", "Ukrainians" did to each other, and reenacted for the geopolitcal reason to split and attack the new emerging Russian Federation and its bordering countries.

This here is the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists whose ideology is made acceptable by the US/EU acknowledged Kyiv government, and whose Western "respectable" historians and Orange politicians have been white washing and using for years to create a "Ukrainian identity" out of this mix of peoples and histories.

here are a number of contemporary far-right Ukrainian political organizations who claim to be inheritors of the OUN's political traditions, including Svoboda, the Ukrainian National Assembly and the Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists.[2][nb 2][3]

The OUN sought to infiltrate legal political parties, universities and other structures, and considered its ideological struggle to be critical; as revolutionary ultra-nationalists the OUN may be considered fascist.[1][2][nb 3] The OUN's struggle was not merely theoretical however and the means employed by the OUN to achieve Ukrainian independence included violence or terrorism against foreign and domestic enemies, particularly Poland, Czechoslovakia and Russia, which occupied territory inhabited by ethnic Ukrainians.[1] One of the OUN's stated goals was to protect the Ukrainian population from repression and establish a Ukrainian state.

In 1940, the OUN split into two parts, with the older more moderate members supporting Andriy Melnyk (OUN-M) while the younger and more radical members supporting Stepan Bandera (OUN-B). Both groups were enthusiastically committed to a new fascist Europe.[2][nb 4] The OUN-B came to control the OUN's Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) and declared an independent Ukrainian state in June 1941, under occupation by Axis powers, as a satellite of Nazi Germany.[2] The OUN leadership was suppressed by Nazi authorities, while UPA military units carried out large-scale ethnic cleansing against Polish and Jewish populations.[2] After the war, the UPA resisted Soviet occupation, in which Soviet forces killed, arrested or deported over 500,000 innocent Ukrainians. Many targeted by the Soviets included UPA members, their families or supporters; UPA forces themselves killed 20,000 Ukrainians, mostly traitors and collaborators, during their resistance.[2][nb 5]

During the Cold War, the OUN was covertly supported by western intelligence agencies, including the CIA.[2] The role of the OUN remains contested in historiography, as later political inheritors developed a literature denying the organization's fascist political heritage and collaboration with Nazi Germany, while also celebrating the Waffen - SS Galizien.[2][nb 6][4] On the other hand, some scholars argue that far-right or extreme-right aspects of modern OUN descendants are emphasized by political opponents for electoral purposes.[2]

So the reason, people were slaughtered in this area was equally exclusive nationalism and to stop the slaughter you have to stop the nationalism not try to achieve a new "Ukrainian identity".


Posted by: somebody | Mar 30, 2014 4:06:40 AM | 99

Further reflections upon Snowden( with apologies if discussed in previous thread):

Wasn't there a Stratfor leak which discussed neutralizing Glenn Greenwald? Didn't this same leak identify
Greenwald's main weakness as being his ambition?

Is it not also strange that 'The Guardian' -bulwark of the establishment and the same paper that does not publish leaks contrary to US/NATO narrative in Turkey or Ukraine-
should take up Snowden's cause?

I also seem to remember that Snowden initially made comments distancing himself from Assange and company, only to strangely rectify a few days later.
Snowden himself does not appear to see himself as an anti- imperialist and has stated that he not only supports the NSA but in fact is in some way 'still working for it'.

Nice blog by the way- thanks

Posted by: bassalt@hotmail.com | Mar 30, 2014 4:08:01 AM | 100

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