Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 13, 2013

Open Thread 2013-24

News & views ...

Posted by b on November 13, 2013 at 01:17 PM | Permalink

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So who thinks the upcoming Afghan Loya Jirga is going to grant immunity?

Posted by: Andrew | Nov 13, 2013 2:08:18 PM | 1

A follow-up to the arrest of five Al-Nusra members in Adana, Turkey last May, who were reportedly in possession of sarin. Initial reports said they planned to attack a nearby American air force base.

The Erdogan govt. has now put all the charges away. The prosecutor reportedly told the court that this was "a political matter" that affected Turkey's international reputation.

(Read a few paragraphs down).


http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/11/turkey-quiet-syrian-chemical-seized.html

Posted by: LLza | Nov 13, 2013 2:46:39 PM | 2

Worth reading:

“I Had A Dad”

About American dads, and how they failed to educate their sons. Harsh but true.

http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2013/11/i-had-dad.html

Posted by: expat229 | Nov 13, 2013 2:48:33 PM | 4

Nothing to see here. Move along.

Fukushima Reactor No. 4 ‘Buckled And Tilted And Could Collapse If Another Quake Strikes’

“Kinda pales our concerns about geo-political strategy.”

Probably no connection. Hundreds Of Sea Turtles Wash Up Dead On Pacific Coast – Dogs ‘Stopped Breathing And Died Almost Instantly’ When Eating Them

The pathetic reality is there is something that anyone who is concerned could do.

Posted by: juannie | Nov 13, 2013 2:53:01 PM | 5

classic hysterical lobbying, No one cares in France about Meyer Habib outside of CRIF, same kind of over-the-top monotonous proclamations than the laughable Sammy Ghozlan...

Posted by: zingaro | Nov 13, 2013 2:59:51 PM | 6

On Fukushima:

http://ojs.library.ubc.ca/index.php/tci/article/view/183609/183713

Posted by: bevin | Nov 13, 2013 3:08:24 PM | 7

Former Defence Intelligence Agency Colonel Pat Lang had a good point to make, that I've been thinking off as well. Via Friday Lunch Club:

Clausewitz thought that no peacetime regime of training and military education could ever be as effective in creating a skilful, hard fighting army as sustained and ultimately successful war. That is certainly true if the army in question survives the process. The Syrian Army and Air Force have passed that test and are in the process of becoming something like their Hizbullah allies. They are more heavily armed but similarly adapted to the peculiar circumstances of their task and the topography of Syria.

The presence on the battlefields of Lebanese Hizbullah allies and lately of Shia militia from Iraq increases the effect when combined with the efforts of the maturing Syrian Army.

This is a point that rarely gets mentioned. Strangely China's military could be most prone to this. It all well and good building up an Army and giving them training but nothing beats experience in an actual war. If China ever went to war with the US, the Americans would be battle tested at every level from 13 years of combat while the Chinese would have only ever experienced drills/training exercises.

The same was/is true for Iran and its why the Revolutionary Guards are amoung the best in the region. The modern Iranian army was formed in the brutal Iran-Iraq war. All its leaders are veterans of that war. Same also with Hezbollah who were created during a brutal civil war and Israeli occupation.

I would guess that todays Syrian Arab Army (SAA) is dramatically tougher, more experienced, and generally more effective than the SAA of 2010 at every level from Soldier up to General. It's one thing to do a 3 week drill during peacetime, another to have 3 years combat experience or 3 years commanding battalions in a war.

The fusion of Hezbollah and Iraqi militias with the SAA also makes the Resistance Axis more coordinated than ever. Previously Hezbollah stuck to Lebanon, SAA stuck to Syria, and the Shia militias in Iraq stayed in Iraq. Now they are all working together and developing friendships/contacts at all levels.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Nov 13, 2013 3:20:37 PM | 8

The Dominican Republic has stripped people born on its soil of citizenship. Making them stateless. NGO's and neighboring governments are calling for sanctions on the island nation.

Posted by: Fernando | Nov 13, 2013 3:27:07 PM | 9

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Nov 13, 2013 3:20:37 PM | 8

i hope this isnt a recommendation for war!or for it as character building!

Posted by: brian | Nov 13, 2013 3:56:28 PM | 10

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Nov 13, 2013 3:20:37 PM | 8


jihadis who go to war in syria libya or elsewhere..iof the survive are also now battle hardened...but youd not want them to return to their origin counties esp like UK France Australia...

Posted by: brian | Nov 13, 2013 3:58:33 PM | 11

. 'Most of the occupants of the vehicles escaped to Syria on foot, but one was apprehended. "SH," a French national with Bosnia-Herzegovina citizenship, said he had nothing to do with the seized supplies and was released pending trial. '

just as the dancing israelis were released after their capture on 9-11

Posted by: brian | Nov 13, 2013 4:06:09 PM | 12

re 8 I would guess that todays Syrian Arab Army (SAA) is dramatically tougher, more experienced, and generally more effective than the SAA of 2010 at every level

I am sure that's true, but it is also a lot smaller. The conscripts have gone, dead or deserted. They are down to people who are fighting to survive.

Posted by: alexno | Nov 13, 2013 4:07:56 PM | 13

@ Brian

i hope this isnt a recommendation for war !

No its not. Wasn't my intention to for it to come across as recommending war. The reality is that while the Syrian Army might be more powerful in the future, the Syrian nation has been completely devastated. Same thing with the US. After 13 years of war I assume the US military is more experienced than its ever been, but the US nation has been almost bankrupted.

However I would recommend one war, and thats the war against Israel. I think in the future this cooperation by the Resistance Axis and hardening of the Syrian Army will serve it well. From an Israeli perspective they supported the uprising with the idea "let them kill each other". But they might now have a more tougher unified military on there borders in the future.

jihadis who go to war in syria libya or elsewhere..iof the survive are also now battle hardened

Well this goes back to the line in Pat Lang's piece where he says: "That is certainly true if the army in question survives the process." Individually any surviving Jihadists might be stronger, but if they lose the war institutionally they will be broken.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Nov 13, 2013 4:34:21 PM | 14

Sweden closes four prisons as number of inmates plummets

in comparison to:

Entire world - Prison Population Rates per 100,000 of the national population

U.S. Has World's Highest Incarceration Rate

That foreign policy is reflection of internal one illustrate prison population of U.S. society (this word has positive connotation, but not sure that in this case usage of that word is proper) and political system.

Exporting death, violence, hate, racism, sectarianism, destruction of indigenous culture and heritage, looting national wealth with help of its the most politically and socially backward allies throughout world is a prominent characteristic of the U.S. foreign policy.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Nov 13, 2013 5:10:14 PM | 15

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Nov 13, 2013 4:34:21 PM | 14

Hezbollah already beat the IDF in 2006. If the SAA is similarly battle-hardened (and motivated), the IDF should not stand a chance in any future ground combat, even if it maintains air superiority.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 13, 2013 5:15:29 PM | 16

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Nov 13, 2013 4:34:21 PM | 14

The Soviet Union was devastated by the German invasion, but that did nothing to diminish the fighting capabilities of the Red Army.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 13, 2013 5:17:22 PM | 17

Pat Lang makes a good point.
But I'm not sure that it applies to the US military, or for that matter the IDF. Because there is a countervailing rule to the one that Lang cites, which is that nothing corrupts morale and decreases military efficiency more than the dirty work of fighting insurgents with tanks, planes and a massive superiority in materiel.
Add to this the criminality and immorality involved in torture, detention without trial, free fire zones (all males over 10 years of age being treated as 'militants') and legal impunity and you end up with the sort of garrison Dien Bien Phu had before it fell.
Colonial wars are bad for armies. Which is one reason why there is such emphasis on the use of Special Forces, which bear the brunt of most of the soldiering the US carries out in Afghanistan-them and the drones.
If the US army ever gets in a fight-see Korea in 1950- the soft military exterior, Alexno's conscripts, now dead or deserted, tends to melt away rapidly.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 13, 2013 5:17:54 PM | 18

I think Pat Lang is spreading a half truth. I don't know why he is doing so, but I guess it's due to a deep commitment to sectarian thinking.

I appreciate much of his work, especially his outing of the Ghouta checial false flag, but, maybe someone could invite him on a beer in Hermel to grasp a bit more of contemporary reality in the region?

Posted by: Bandolero | Nov 13, 2013 6:12:54 PM | 19

@13 "I am sure that's true, but it is also a lot smaller."


True enough. But if/when it finally wins this war then it will expand again, and those new conscripts will be fitted into squads and companies and battalions that will have a hard core of hard men, and who will know how to properly teach those conscripts the art of being hardcore hard fighting men.

That's rather different than filling your ranks with conscripts who
A) Don't know what they are doing and
B) Don't ever get trained to Know Any Better.

Posted by: Johnboy | Nov 13, 2013 6:21:39 PM | 20

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Nov 13, 2013 3:20:37 PM | 8

so true,no one has more experience than hezbollah since 2006,even 1996,or 1986,or 1976,or 1956.they are hard hard hard core

Posted by: brakes | Nov 13, 2013 7:07:55 PM | 21

A true scumbag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Chubais

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 13, 2013 8:04:32 PM | 22

http://www.iuf.org/cgi-bin/campaigns/show_campaign.cgi?c=800

Disgusting that this still goes on in these American puppet states, despite Obama's fake concern during the 2008 debates. Anything to get the much needed AFL-CIO dollars and people power... only to be tossed away at the earliest convenience and allow murders such as these to go unchecked.

Colombian trade unionist murdered, others face immediate risk

Oscar López Triviño was murdered on November 9 in the Colombian city of Bugalagrande a day after he and other members of his union, SINALTRAINAL, received death threats from paramilitaries. The union had been on hunger strike at Nestlé beginning November 5.

The IUF joins with the national center CUT and unions around the world in condemning this assassination of yet another Colombian trade unionist and calls on the government to swiftly bring the perpetrators to justice through a full and transparent investigation, and to provide all necessary security for other union members at high risk.

Use the form below to send a message to the Colombian authorities. The Spanish message calls on the President and Labour Minister to swiftly bring the perpetrators and organizers of this crime to justice through a full and transparent investigation, and to provide all necessary security for other union members at risk.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 13, 2013 8:16:03 PM | 23

Very difficult, but a must watch to understand the US supported regime of the Shah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSfNydwo33E

In a stunning and emotional powerful program, an Iranian poet and political dissident vividly describes his incarceration and torture at the hands of the Shah's CIA established secret police -- SAVAK (CIA and US created secret police of Iran which was established after CIA Operation Ajax. Since SAVAK was established, this Dictator of Iran own secret police tortured over 3000 people to death).

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 13, 2013 8:28:03 PM | 24

@g_h (#3);

I don't think that it is a fake. Today in the "cross talk" program in RT they were talking about it. It is not that it is "fake", it is just that it is totally preposterous. It would be extremely stupid of ANYONE in the West to think that Israel has the capability to harm Iran or create any war at all without the full support of USA in particular or the West in general. Israel simply doesn't have the military wherewithal to fight a war against Iran. It simply doesn't have the necessary air power to destroy Iranian nuclear program. It will likely loose fighter jets during the attack (Iran is not Syria) and most importantly Iran will retaliate with a vengeance (using its significant arsenal of surf. to surf. missiles) and the war will horribly blow back in Israel's face.

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Nov 13, 2013 10:36:42 PM | 25

On a different note, for those who maybe interested in the subject of crisis theory and the economic crisis that we have been going through, interesting views by John Bellamy Foster:

John Bellamy Foster, Understanding the Capitalist Economic Crisis.

There are other people on the left who would disagree with parts of his analysis, but I think it is a good and thought provoking 'introduction' into the subject. It is 2 years old and perhaps some people have already seen it.

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Nov 13, 2013 11:06:38 PM | 26

The US-sponsored coup in Iran in 1953 is well known.

What's a bit less known is htat the coup 1979 in Iran was also US-sponsored. I think that's, where we should put more attention to.

I would just start with the meeting in Guadeloupe:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konferenz_von_Guadeloupe

Posted by: Bandolero | Nov 13, 2013 11:10:57 PM | 27

Thanks to all those who have provided links, in particular to Bevin and Bandolero. This article and the comments following it are, in my opinion, of interest although they don't reveal much that is outside the consensus shared here at MOA, and are probably already known to most visitors here.

The alleged Israeli fabrication of the "incriminating telephone interceptions" remains only an allegation in Giraldi's account, but
one can only wonder if more detailed information available in that regard might have been the motor for the threatened mass resignation of the spooks to whom it was available.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Nov 14, 2013 3:33:08 AM | 28

how long before the new pope goes the way of John Paul 1?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/13/pope-francis-mafia-target-corruption?CMP=fb_gu

Posted by: brian | Nov 14, 2013 4:44:43 AM | 29

interview with russian cybercrime expert Kaspersky:

14:47: mentions 2007 attack on Estonia....says it was likely russian criminals...tho the west blamed russia...also says stuxnet attacked a russia nuclear plant
18:40 apparently scientists to International space station bring there infected USB sticks! ISS run on LINUX
26:55 stuxnet ...tho Kaspersy says he doesnt know for sure ventures the american idea Stuxnet was developed by US and israel t attack Iraq and iran nuke plants
at 27:40 says a russian nuclear plant was badly affected by Stuxnet
michael brissendon of ABC charges russia china and North korea are said to main source of cyber crime....coincidence these are US enemies?..Kaspersky tho says maine sorucves of malware are china speaking criminals russian speaking criminals and spanish /portguese speaking,...doesnt mention DPRK
etc
http://outsidelens.scmagazine.com/video/Eugene-Kaspersky-Press-Club-201;recent

Posted by: brian | Nov 14, 2013 4:47:33 AM | 30

China voices frustration that its best investment choice remains U.S. debt


With around $1.28 trillion in U.S. Treasury bonds already in its portfolio, China has little choice but to continue to buy U.S. debt, economist say. Government bonds from Japan and Europe are a less attractive investment, and finding other avenues to diversify the country’s huge foreign currency reserves would require major economic reforms and could result in unwanted volatility.

“Under what is known as the Pax-Americana, we fail to see a world where the United States is helping to defuse violence and conflicts, reduce poor and displaced population, and bring about real, lasting peace.”

“They started to really worry that the U.S. is weak,” said Shen Dingli, vice dean of international affairs at Shanghai’s Fudan University. “Not only that Obama is weak, but that the entire system is weak.”


Bibi and Bandar are really nothing be bare-assed baboons, no real reason to stroke them at all. China on the other hand is the USD$1,280,000,000,000.00 gorilla whose wishes ... or an attempt to shine on whose wishes ... may just be what we are watching n the Middle East.

No only China, but everyone knows that the USSA is PTSD, a suicidal maniac trying to cimmit suicide by cop. China is the one and only cop who can do the job. Talk the lunatic down, preferably. So the sick 'game' has a less abrubt conclusion.

Posted by: john francis lee | Nov 14, 2013 4:58:00 AM | 31

"Conservative party deletes archive of speeches from internet"

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/13/conservative-party-archive-speeches-internet

They delete everything what future and history might blame them for.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Nov 14, 2013 8:25:12 AM | 32

juannie @ 5: Kudos, and another thanks for the link. Me and mine are all in. We live in
California.

Posted by: ben | Nov 14, 2013 9:19:47 AM | 33

"China on the other hand is the USD$1,280,000,000,000.00 gorilla..."

Well, hardly significant. With its export (waste of resources) oriented economy which is highly compatible with the U.S. there are nothing but cheep source of products and labor. Trillions of UST laying waste in a vaults of People Banks of China. Not only China, Japan too which itself is in deflation for 15+ years.


Posted by: neretva'43 | Nov 14, 2013 9:22:25 AM | 34

"The Soviet Union was devastated by the German invasion, but that did nothing to diminish the fighting capabilities of the Red Army.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 13, 2013 5:17:22 PM | 16

this is complete nonsense, the kind of Written-by-the-Victor history one learns in high school.

It leaves out important things such as vulnerability of supply lines, the fact that the Wehrmacht themselves were not particularly battle-hardened since kicking the butts of the Polish army was essentially a walk in the park for them, etc etc. The Wehrmacht had not been engaged in 13 yrs of war prior to Barbarossa.

A more text-book case of comparing apples and oranges would be hard to find

Posted by: foff | Nov 14, 2013 9:52:46 AM | 35

Brian - i hope this isnt a recommendation for war !

ffs Brian.

Posted by: foff | Nov 14, 2013 9:53:52 AM | 36

ben,
Not a good place even now especially if you live near the coast. I suspect you are already aware of how radioactively polluted the Pacific is. Both Arnie Gunderson and Helen Caldicott are suggesting moving to the southern hemisphere should the #4 fuel rod removal go amiss, if there is time. I am reminded of Nevil Shute and his foresight with his 1957 novel “On the Beach”.

Bevin,
I appreciated the read you linked to, considering it’s dry academic nature. It addresses the sociological phenomena of denial and lethargy when faced with incomprehensible and dangerous scenarios of such Fukushima.

A few excerpts:

mass media - my sources don’t draw from mass media - it is ignored/denied there.
lack of information coming from “experts”.
Deadly silence on Fukushima
Invisible truth so incomprehensible it is easier to pretend it doesn’t exist.

I would have thought that many readers of this blog would have ventured beyond such psychological defenses. I am still hoping so because as I linked to in my post #5, there is something that could be done to give #4 fuel rod removal a better chance of success.

Posted by: juannie | Nov 14, 2013 10:14:43 AM | 37

"A New Phase of Neoliberalism in Iran: The Untold Story of Iran's "Moderate" Government"

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2013/asefi311013.html

No surprise here. What else it can be.

Another example: Dalai Lama is celebrated and reverend in the West as a freedom lover etc. when in fact there are evidences that he is reactionary medieval monarch and parasite at that.

Now, are the Tibetans better off with or without Dalai Lama, or the Iranians with its mullah?

If the one believes in popular will - voting, elections and all that crap I have no doubt that, given level of human conscience, that the majority would vote for a medieval options.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Nov 14, 2013 10:18:17 AM | 38

And this just out.

Fukushima Reactor No. 4, SFP Fuel Rods Deformed One ‘Bent At 90-Degree Angle’

Posted by: juannie | Nov 14, 2013 10:23:18 AM | 39

juannie @37 I posted that link because I thought that it might be of interest. I confess I didn't read it all.


I'm posting this-below- here because I don't want to detract from the important posing on B new Syrian thread.
My post however relates to Rowan's contribution regarding Obama's history and the CIA.


Madsen's report-which niqnaq republishes (and boy, does it need editing) is curious in a number of ways. Most relating to Britain's role in Indonesia and Kenya.
Leaving Britain out of a discussion of the Suharto coup is a bit like Hamlet without the Prince.
The US didn't like Sukarno but Britain was at war with him. Konfrontasi lasted from 1961 until Suharto ended it. Military Intelligence, based in Singapore, was heavily involved in the Suharto take over, produced lists of targets for assassination and had been running terrorist guerrillas in Indonesia for many months before 1965.
Of course Britain's Commonwealth allies, including ANZAC as well as Malaysian forces were all involved in the coup and preparations for it.
Then there is the British role in Obama's homeland Kenya. Britain ruled the country until 1964! Tom Mboya was one of the leaders of the movement for uhuru. Madsen's characterisation of him as a CIA puppet may very well be accurate but did ML King know this? Was King too a CIA agent?

Posted by: bevin | Nov 14, 2013 3:33:40 PM | 40

Posted by: foff | Nov 14, 2013 9:52:46 AM | 35

If the Wehrmacht were such softies, why do you think they were so effective in fighting on defense not only the Red Army, but also the U.S. and UK, in North Africa and Italy, even in Normandy?

Posted by: lysias | Nov 14, 2013 5:47:59 PM | 41

No one said that the wehrmacht were "softies". Stop making stuff up and attributing it to me, thanks.

You yourself have now supplied a whole bunch more reasons why your initial comment was wrong.

Posted by: foff | Nov 14, 2013 6:50:52 PM | 42

Posted by: foff | Nov 14, 2013 6:50:52 PM | 42

the Wehrmacht themselves were not particularly battle-hardened since kicking the butts of the Polish army was essentially a walk in the park for them, etc etc.

Your words, not m ine.

Posted by: lysias | Nov 14, 2013 7:09:48 PM | 43

And?

Posted by: foff | Nov 14, 2013 7:15:15 PM | 44

The soviets were saved by the onset of winter.

It snowed, then melted, then everything turned to mud. The Germans made several serious miscalculations which caused them to get bogged down just outside Moscow.

The onset of winter alowed the RA a vital breather to reorganise, resupply, etc.

The initial german sucess had less to do with battlehardening andwas mainly a result of the Wehrmacht being better led, better trained, better disciplined and better equipped than the RA.

Posted by: foff | Nov 14, 2013 7:27:43 PM | 45

It's probable that Moscow would have fallen were it not for the weather and one man called Zhukov. He was brought in late in the game to defend moscow.

Zhukov was one of the few soviet officers that actually had experience in battle, having fought quite effectively on the russian eastern borders, against japanese.

Zhukov and his troops were probably the only decent forces the russians had at the time, which, contrary to claims made by others here, would tend to confirm Colm O'Toole's original point about battle hardening (in my opinion)

Posted by: foff | Nov 14, 2013 7:42:41 PM | 46

The real news - Chris Hedges on the attempt to link democratic dissent with terrorism

Hegemony abroad requires repression at home

Quote "A Canadian worker pays roughly the same taxes as a US worker and gets health care, a US worker gets the Pentagon."

Posted by: somebody | Nov 14, 2013 8:11:26 PM | 47

Great historical anecdote from Chomsky's "American Power and the New Mandarins"

Bernard Fall told an interviewer the story of a Vietnamese who listened to an American general boasting of one of the latest victories of the Vietnam campaign. "Yes General, I understand" said the Vietnamese, “but aren't your victories coming closer and closer to Saigon?

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 14, 2013 8:30:27 PM | 48

"Zhukov was one of the few soviet officers that actually had experience in battle, having fought quite effectively on the russian eastern borders, against japanese."

Experience or not, but the Soviet soldiers pay dearly and horrendously the way he battled an enemy. According to everything it did not have to be that way. It happened two times, In Battles of Rzhev or "Rzhev meat grinder" and the other one is when his troops fought the German who were on some kind of mountain, or hill, near Berlin.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Nov 14, 2013 8:38:47 PM | 49

@Colm

"I would guess that todays Syrian Arab Army (SAA) is dramatically tougher, more experienced, and generally more effective than the SAA of 2010 at every level from Soldier up to General."

I think this is largely correct, and certainly hopefully has the Israelis worried greatly - especially in regards the murmurings of a new round of resistance in the Golan Heights ala Hezbollah's liberation of Southern Lebanon (Nasrallah's promise to commit political and economic resources shouldn't be underestimated).

As for Syria's destruction and need for rebuilding, the is no doubt. If the Chinese and Russians are looking for alternatives for investing in dollars, they could do worse than to put it into rebuilding Syria.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 14, 2013 8:38:53 PM | 50

"but the Soviet soldiers pay dearly and horrendously the way he battled an enemy"

Though even Zhukov himself admitted his mistakes during the battle, it would certainly be wrong to attempt to portray this as purposeful, which it wasn't.

Its quite an old tactic, of the Goebbels variety, to try and attribute the massive Soviet losses not to the relentless, merciless German invasion but to the "heartless Soviet generals". You will still see today, when people attempt to tell you "Stalin killed 20 million people!" that the vast majority of this number is cynically composed of Soviet troops killed in defense of their homeland.

hese battles could perhaps have been fought differently - as admitted by Zhukov himself - but only with the advantage of viewing them in hindsight. But at the time they were fought, Rzhev occurring simultaneously with Stalingrad against some of the most heavily defended points on the German line in the midsts of a war of annihilation it is impossible to honestly chalk the losses up as some "heartlessness" or "purposefulness" on the part of the Soviet generals.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 14, 2013 8:59:51 PM | 51

"Its quite an old tactic, of the Goebbels variety"

ffs.

So neretva43 is "Gobbels" now? Any chance you could, for once, leave off trying to smear as "nazi" everyone you disagree with?

Very tiresome, that.

Posted by: foff | Nov 14, 2013 9:06:43 PM | 52

It has little to do with Neretva to be honest. The comment was less about him than about the phenomenon in general.

As for you, I call them like I see them. Your ridiculous whining about Russell Brand apparently being too hard on those poor poor misunderstood Nazis is still ringing in my ears.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 14, 2013 9:18:13 PM | 53

Christ, you get stupider by the hour. I did not think it possible.

Posted by: foff | Nov 14, 2013 9:23:53 PM | 54

"...Rzhev occurring simultaneously with Stalingrad against some of the most heavily defended points on the German line in the midsts of a war of annihilation it is impossible to honestly chalk the losses up as some "heartlessness" or "purposefulness" on the part of the Soviet generals."

You sound silly, but never mind.

There are evidences that at the Rzev salient the Soviet use calvary and infantry, they assaulted headlong the German lines who had MG 42. I guess the Germans were too close to Stalin, Stavka and Moscow so ordinary soldiers pay the price.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Nov 14, 2013 9:41:53 PM | 55

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Seelow_Heights

This is second abject failure on part of Zhukov.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Nov 14, 2013 9:46:08 PM | 56

"The initial german sucess had less to do with battle hardening and was mainly a result of the Wehrmacht being better led, better trained, better disciplined and better equipped than the RA..."

As one would expect foff is quite a fan of the Wehrmacht. Perhaps its the stars in his eyes that prevents him from seeing the most important advantage they had in 1941- that of surprise. Stalin was quite unprepared for Barbarossa. And the more the British warned him, the more convinced he was that they were conning him.

Guest77's point
"Its quite an old tactic, of the Goebbels variety, to try and attribute the massive Soviet losses not to the relentless, merciless German invasion but to the 'heartless Soviet generals'."
is valid.
The same "human wave" nonsense was used to explain way the crushing defeats the US suffered in Korea. There were echoes of it too when the US ally, Saddam Hussein, was being defeated by Iran.
It is an argument that is used to justify appalling massacres from the air, such as the "Turkey Shoot" the ended the first Gulf War and the dreadful destruction of North Korean villages, towns and cities which was the US response to the PLA intervention when the "UN" drove up to the Yalu river.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 14, 2013 10:08:21 PM | 57

As one would expect, the Fanboi-Two are once again reduced to repeatedly hilariously Godwin-ing themselves into a state of utter ridiculousness.

"You sound silly, but never mind."

Indeed he does.

Pointing out the indisputible, and alredy acknowledge by Zhukov himself, tactical shortcomings of the post-purge Red Army, apparently makes one into some sort of nazi.

Well done bevin and his fellow godwin-er. You both seem determined to Godwin yourselves into objects of ridicule

Posted by: foff | Nov 14, 2013 10:50:05 PM | 58

F*** off, foff, you are a classic troll.

:-)

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Nov 15, 2013 5:38:42 AM | 59

climate action: philippine delegate is angry at rich nations indifference to the issue
Philippines delegate refuses to eat until action on climate change 'madness'
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/12/world/europe/poland-philippines-sano-cop/

Posted by: brian | Nov 15, 2013 8:43:51 AM | 60

This comment in Pepe Escobar's latest piece, strikes me as being significant.

"...The head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Yukiya Amano, was also in Tehran on Monday, and - unusually for his trademark paperboy role for Washington - had nothing to complain about..."

Calling Amano a "paperboy" exaggerates his independence. He, like his UN counterpart Ban Ki Moon, is a much more reliable servant of the White House than all but a few American politicians.

So we can be certain that if Obama's plan is for there to be no deal with Iran, Amano would be front and centre with the sort of nonsense we have learned to expect from IAEA sources-nothing firm but all manner of nit picking and whining about what Iran could be up to, though there is no evidence of it.

In other words, this is a sign that next week's meeting might yet yield a deal.
It is also a sign that the joint Israel-MIC lobby for war will be working at full tilt to prevent a deal from being made.
The French torpedo now looks like a desperate, last ditch effort to buy time so that the Jabotinsyites can work their magic in Congress.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 15, 2013 10:03:38 AM | 61

I've got a great quote for you, bevin. Israel's Economy and Trade Minister Naftali Bennett, making Netanyahu’s case in both chambers on Capitol Hill, told a crowd of congressmen from the Israel Allies Foundation in the Library of Congress on Thursday:

Nuclear missiles on Rome, New York and other capitals can still be avoided, if you act with conviction in the coming days.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Nov 15, 2013 10:29:36 AM | 62

Israel's Economy and Trade Minister Naftali Bennett, making Netanyahu’s case in both chambers on Capitol Hill, told a crowd of congressmen from the Israel Allies Foundation in the Library of Congress on Thursday:

Nuclear missiles on Rome, New York and other capitals can still be avoided, if you act with conviction in the coming days.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Nov 15, 2013 10:29:36 AM | 62

Sounds like more of a threat than a warning

In a September 2003 interview in Elsevier, a Dutch weekly, on Israel and the alleged dangers it faces from Iran and world opinion, Martin Levi van Creveld, [an Israeli military historian and theorist] stated:

We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force…. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.

Posted by: foff | Nov 15, 2013 10:51:59 AM | 63

Congress has spent so much time in the past decades ceding its powers to the President that it now finds itself in a peculiar position.

In constitutional terms it has immense power, potentially, over foreign policy. But it has become content with making no real effort to translate its powers into reality: it is very happy to vote nem con that Israel is wonderful and should be given anything it desires but it shies away from specifics.

Now the lobby is asking Congress,which hasn't declared war since 1917, to declare war, for that is what the sanctions propsed amount to, on Iran.

The White house is in an equally awkward position: it has been agreeing with likudnik extremist fantasies, regarding Iran's nuclear programme, for so long and with such fervour that it now finds it difficult to reveal the truth, that Iran has no weapons programme, and get people to relax while it negotiates a deal which, by all accounts, represents a virtual surrender by Iran.

The signs are all suggesting that Obama has become a complete lame duck. He was thwarted over Syria when Congress looked as if it might follow the House of Commons. Then the worst thing happened- his Obamacare plan was not stalled and is currently being allowed to disintegrate like a corpse left on the scaffold.
Meanwhile-and this is the context of all current analysis- the Great depression gathers steam, the economic death spiral goes on. Even the tiny, notional increases in growth of fractions of a percentage point actually show that, absent Quantitative Easing, even the government's stats, spun and falsified though they have been, actually show that things are getting worse.
But we ain't seen nothing yet.

No wonder China and Russia are busily doing nothing at all as the US and Israel tie themselves in knots.
No need to shake the branches-the fruit is so ripe it will pick itself.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 15, 2013 11:47:54 AM | 64

The problem for the Zionist occupied territory of Congress is how do to get public opinion behind a strike on Iran when both ends as well as the center of the ideological spectrum are strongly opposed to another war. People would blame another 9/11 if one was conjured up on Wahhabites not Persian Shia. I think Likudniks overestimate the amount of support they have among the U.S. population.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Nov 15, 2013 12:07:26 PM | 65

wow, the whole western media, including atimes, guardians etc, r in a feeding frenzy trashing china , who's donation to ph is *less than ikea's offering* , not to mention the aids given by muricuns n japs !

typical comments
[1] do we need more proof that the chinese r coldblooded bastards ?
[2] this episode alone settle the issue once n for all,
if one day i've to choose side, i know which side to turn to !

[3] we, the anglophone family, r always the first responders to disaster !

so many gems of insights, so little time !

Posted by: denk | Nov 15, 2013 12:16:43 PM | 66

I am totally baffled as to who has the final decision on sanctions. First I thought it was Congress, then I thought no, Obama has a waiver, but now I see that some Congress crittur is proposing a law to cancel his waiver. Can they do that? Is the Presidential waiver merely a Congressional provision, not something inherent in the Constitution?

The top Republican senator on the Foreign Relations Committee is considering legislation that would prevent Obama from waiving sanctions. “We’ve crafted an amendment [to prevent him],” Corker told The Daily Beast in an interview Wednesday Nov 6. “They have the ability now to waive sanctions. But [we wanna remove it].” Corker said that his new legislative language would freeze the administration’s ability to waive sanctions currently in place. Under Corker’s plan the Obama administration would be barred from using the waivers that are currently on the books to create limited exemptions to the sanctions program.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Nov 15, 2013 12:21:19 PM | 67

Pay no attention to Bob Corker (the current Chattanooga choo-choo)on this or any other matter.

Basically the president makes Foreign Policy, with the Senate's Advice and Consent when treaties are involved.
The House of Representatives pays the bills.
Corker is just trying to pad his campaign funds. It is a reminder that the word "irresponsible" has a meaning.
But you are right to be baffled, Rowan, contrary to the beliefs of the "written constitution" enthusiasts in Britain the US Constitution is in continuous flux and means whatever is convenient to the ruling class at a particular moment.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 15, 2013 2:04:13 PM | 68

On the Reuters article about Kahmeini and his financial empire

http://tinyurl.com/p8fb9t3

posted on another thread.

The situation in Iran is in a vague broad sense comparable to Egypt, where the Army controls up to a quarter maybe? of the economy, hotels and tourism, construction, deals with investors, banking, etc. (I have posted about it before. No hard, secure, numbers are available, but this isn’t contested by anyone.)

Btw, in Greece, the Orthodox church in conjunction with some big biz. like shipping present another picture with similarities, if on a much smaller scale.

In Egypt, the army is now in power, in Iran the religious authorities have held onto their power.

Khamenei has not endured in Iran because the ppl are devout, obey their religious leaders, are happy with heir Gov. nor because he is a modest man. It is because the leaders have institutional power (all of it, on paper), financial power (a good part of it in holdings, plus all the regulations), and the Revolutionary Guards. (About the army idk.)

I wouldn’t dismiss Reuters out of hand. Their ‘investigative’ reports are some what lame and slanted, they tend to stick to ‘facts’ as the US etc. would wish. (I had a long look at one on child trafficking of adopted children in the US which had the merit at least of raising the issue - it is a taboo topic in the US.)

Now all that doesn’t address K’s financial empire, but it is huge, that is certain.

One wordy confused paper about Iran as an example of underground issues... not directly about K.

http://www.relooney.fatcow.com/SI_Peter-Iran/00-Iran_2.pdf

SEDAD escaped sanctions according to Reuters. (So did many others.)

Khomenini seems to have legislated the ‘property seizure’ to help ppl but that changed when Khameini came to power.

Digging in further is difficult, I will post if anything serious.

Posted by: Noirette | Nov 15, 2013 2:09:54 PM | 69

It is symptomatic a cooperation of the Islamic Republic with extended hand of the U.S. Treasury Dept. that is IMF who were yesterday or two days ago in Tehran. As reported the IMF was pleased with "...plans to address subsidy reform and other structural issues", "address inflation" etc.

Ominous signs on horizons, dark ones, for the people of Iran. Iran oligarchy is a drawn into vortex of the world's swindlers.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Nov 15, 2013 5:39:57 PM | 70

from foff’s # 63:

In a September 2003 interview in Elsevier, a Dutch weekly, on Israel and the alleged dangers it faces from Iran and world opinion, Martin Levi van Creveld, [an Israeli military historian and theorist] stated:
We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force…. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.

I’ve often heard it stated that “we become what we hate the most”. And, “if Hitler had the bomb at the last when in his bunker, he would have had no compunction to take the rest of the world down with him and use it”

The above quote of foff’s kind of sums up my first quote as far as present day Israel is concerned. I think it takes a psychopathic (4%) mind to delve into those depths. A normal human being (96%) would typically make a life/death decision to do as little harm to others as possible. Our dilemma is how to deal with the 4% in the age of weapons of mass destruction. Worse yet, I think the reality is that the 4% have almost universal control of the WMD.

Posted by: juannie | Nov 15, 2013 6:45:13 PM | 71

One for all the "Anonymous" fanbois (and grlz) out there

The Anonymous hacktivist sentenced on Friday to 10 years in federal prison for his role in releasing thousands of emails from the private intelligence firm Stratfor has told a Manhattan court that he was directed by an FBI informant to break into the official websites of several governments around the world.

The extent to which "Anonymous" is infiltrated by spooks is unknown and unknowable to mere non-spooks like us, but one would have to be more than a little bit gullible to believe that it is not being regularly used as a cover for spook activities.

For all anyone knows the whole Anonymous brand could be a spook invention from the very start. What better cover than pretending to be an unruly mob of rabid teens?

Posted by: foff | Nov 15, 2013 6:46:55 PM | 72

#71

To be fair to van Creveld: he claimed was merely articulating opinions of others within Israel, and these were not necessarily opinions he agreed with. Admittedly he was a little vague on that last part.

Posted by: foff | Nov 15, 2013 7:07:07 PM | 73

Btw i suspect that the % of jewish people (both Israeli and others) that think the thoughts that van Creveld articulated is a damn sight higher than 4%.

If it were just the Israelis we could blame the local (stolen) water or something . . . .

Posted by: foff | Nov 15, 2013 7:21:16 PM | 74

My 4% comes from what, according to Martha Stout (The Sociopath Next Door), the psychiatric community estimates to be the percentage of populations (across most all cultures) that can be diagnosed as psychopathic. Because of the (purported) heavy early propaganda in Israel you are probably correct. But I have some reservations. Max Bllumenthal’s “Goliath” Life and Loathing in Greater Israel” may shed more light on this (I haven’t read it but am awaiting it’s delivery after reading Chris Hedges’ review.

Posted by: juannie | Nov 15, 2013 7:49:34 PM | 75

uncle sham, the perennial opportunist.


haiti

*The Street, an investment Web site, published an article, misleadingly titled "An Opportunity to Heal Haiti," that lays out how U.S. corporations can cash in on the catastrophe. "Here are some companies," they write, "that could potentially
benefit: General Electric, Caterpillar, Deere, Fluor, Jacobs Engineering*
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24613.htm

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24421.htm


Condi Rice: Tsunami Provided "Wonderful opportunity" for US
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0118-08.htm

myanmar....
*With United States warships and air force planes at the ready, and over 1 million of Myanmar’s citizens left bedraggled, homeless and susceptible to water-borne diseases by Cyclone Nargis, the natural disaster presents an opportunity in crisis for the U.S*
http://www.globalresearch.ca/myanmar-cyclone-u-s-hostility-hampers-relief/9003


ph,
*Earlier this month, negotiations between the United States and the Philippines to sharply increase the number of US troops regularly rotating through Philippine bases hit a snag. Critics claimed American demands, if met, would undermine Philippine sovereignty. Increasingly, it seemed, prospects for an accord this year looked shaky.

Then typhoon Haiyan hit*
bingo !
http://space4peace.blogspot.com/2013/11/using-typhoon-to-stay-in-philippines.html


vietnam
*By 1961, the cops of the world were in Vietnam, but President Kennedy's representatives there thought a lot more cops were needed and knew the public and the president would be resistant to sending them. For one thing, you couldn't keep up your image as the cops of the world if you sent in a big force to prop up an unpopular regime. What to do? What to do? Ralph Stavins, coauthor of an extensive account of Vietnam War planning, recounts that General Maxwell Taylor and Walt W. Rostow, '. . . wondered how the United States could go to war while appearing to preserve the peace. While they were pondering this question,
Vietnam was suddenly struck by a deluge. It was as if God had wrought a miracle. American soldiers, acting on humanitarian impulses, could be dispatched to save Vietnam not from the Viet Cong, but from the floods*
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36849.htm


*even as the poisonous smoke was still rising from the ruins of the World Trade Center in September 2001, Bush giddily declared that “through my tears, I see opportunity.” We now know exactly what he saw: the opportunity to launch the long-determined invasion of Iraq*
http://www.globalresearch.ca/hideous-kinky-moral-nullity-as-normality-in-pentagon-plans/2354

Posted by: denk | Nov 15, 2013 8:36:51 PM | 76

Nothing sounds quite as silly as two right wing dipshits discussing the virtues of the Wehrmacht from their mother's basements, especially on a site like this. Unless it is maybe a teenage troll who keeps repeating the word "fanboi" like this is 4chan and it is 2003.

As for calling you a Nazi... well if boys size-6 jackboot fits....
...

As for Israel's WMD, they are without a doubt the most dangerous nation who possesses hundreds of the worlds most dangerous weapons, far outmatching the danger posed even by a teetering basketcase of a nation such as Pakistan. Of course there is no need for Israel to have hundreds of such bombs if the real target were its enemies in the Arab world. It is a threatening message that Israel is a world player.

If the uproar that occurred over the non-existent Iranian bomb had occurred over the Israeli's actual bomb, the US would certainly not have to pay so much heed to the suicidal impulses of the little Frankenstein monster it has created. The only more dangerous development would be if the current medieval rulers of Saudi Arabia were to get their bloody, duplicitous hands on some.

The exposure of the Israeli bomb, thankfully, was more than just a big propaganda hit. It is also an avenue for their dismantling should the world ever decide to press for it. Mordecai Vanunu was certainly a hero for what he did - and his hounding by the Israeli government to this day proves it.

The dismantling of the Syrian "chemical weapons stockpile" - which has turned out to be nothing more than a large amount of unmixed precursor chemicals - would, in a just world, be the first step towards the dismantling of all of the most dangerous weapons in the Middle East - including the most dangerous of all, Israel's nukes.

But there is no reason for a country so small to have so much power. The fact that Germany sold them the nuclear capable submarines is just appalling.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 15, 2013 8:58:23 PM | 77

@bevin "The signs are all suggesting that Obama has become a complete lame duck."

Well then, he is mirroring the exact trajectory of the United States then.

The quick decline of the US can't be laid at anyone's door except our own (speaking as a USaian, as Rowan might call me).

The hollowing out the the US by its wealthy elite, represented by the Republicans and the "New Democrats", has brought what was the undisputed world power and producer of half the globe's GDP down in less than 60 years.

As good as it is for the rest of the world, it's sort of amazing to watch it happen from the inside.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 15, 2013 9:15:58 PM | 78

legacy of 'arabspring': one giant step backward for Libya thanks to UN NATO and 'international community' and media like NYT and Democracynow
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/14/libya-will-modify-existing-law-to-conform-to-sharia-code/

Posted by: brian | Nov 15, 2013 9:29:52 PM | 79

@67
not the american people

Posted by: brian | Nov 15, 2013 9:30:43 PM | 80

Re 76

Nothing sounds quite as silly as two right wing dipshits discussing the virtues of the Wehrmacht . . especially on a site like this

Oh, You mean on this site, where the site-owner was once a member of the German Military, where the site owner and others frequently discuss tactics of various military forces, historical and present day?

The discussion was regarding battle hardening, the example given by someone else was Red Army vs Werhmacht.


I realise that other people actually knowing something about subjects you like to pontificate on, and then disagreing with you, bugs the shit out youm but your idealogical fundamentalism gets more and more hilariously pathetic the more you rant, to be honest.

Your inability to see the world and everyone in it other than through a silly "left/right"paradigm is quite funny

I realise you're addicted to your dogma cos it's easier than actually thinking things through all by and for yourself, I just did not realise how proud of your addiction to dogma you were


As for calling you a Nazi... well if boys size-6 jackboot fits.......

Oh I don't mind you doing that, that sort of thing is to be expected from Borg-like dogmatics such as you. In fact it actually helps others see how idiotic idealogical fundamentalists like yourself are. And it gives me even more opportunity, as if any more were needed, for laughing at your regular attempts to bully others by screaming "nazi" when other disagree with your dogmatic ranting.

Posted by: foff | Nov 15, 2013 10:56:20 PM | 81

Actually, regarding this Nazis-under-the-bed obession of yours: you're not Max Mosely in disguise, are you?

Posted by: foff | Nov 15, 2013 11:29:43 PM | 82

Caroline Glick is still riding the "Chattanooga choo-choo", as bevin calls it:

If enough Democrats can be convinced to break ranks with Obama and the Democratic Party’s donors, Congress can pass veto-proof additional sanctions against Iran. These sanctions can only be credible with America’s spurned allies if they do not contain any presidential waiver that would empower Obama to ignore the law. They can also take action to limit Obama’s ability to blackmail Israel, a step that is critical to the US’s ability to rebuild its international credibility.

Posted by: Rowan Berkeley | Nov 16, 2013 4:28:18 AM | 83

One step closer to quantum computing

Qubit Survives Record 39 Minutes at Room Temperature

A Canadian-led team of researchers has created a key component of a quantum computer that can survive at room temperature for a whopping 39 minutes, blowing away previous records of just seconds.

The discovery means it might be possible to store quantum bits of data, known as “qubits,” even at room temperature, for a practical length of time.…But the results of experiments conducted in his lab show “that yeah, you can store quantum information for times that are much longer than people would have suspected… Half an hour at room temperature is pretty amazing.”

Previous room temperature survival records for various kinds of qubits made of solid materials such as silicon have ranged from two to 25 seconds.

Non-spooks may soon have to wave bye-bye to useable encryption

Posted by: foff | Nov 16, 2013 12:33:54 PM | 84

50th anniversary of JFK's demise, the Big Five Oh!, looming.

Amazing how the Lone Commie Sniper theory has been thoroughly trashed.

All of this is absolutely central to the events that occur on November 22, 1963. Consider: Here you have a defector who was in the Soviet Union for almost three years. He returns and then gets involved confronting anti-Castro Cubans in New Orleans. He then goes to Mexico City, and visits both the Cuban and Soviet embassies trying to get to Russia from Cuba. He creates dramatic scenes at both places, and here is the capper: He talks to the KGB's officer in charge of assassinations in the Western Hemisphere. By the time Oswald returned to Dallas, the alarm bell should have been sounding on him throughout the intelligence community. Especially in view of Kennedy's announced visit to Texas. He should never have been allowed to be on the motorcade route. The Secret Service should have had the necessary information about him and he should have been on their Security Index.

http://www.ctka.net/reviews/newman.html

Ayup, a marine, with links to the U2 program, defects to USSR, at the height of the cold war, returns, an avowed Communist and just happens to land a job at a site overlooking JFK's parade route.

Posted by: ruralito | Nov 16, 2013 2:39:16 PM | 85

@51, 'Your inability to see the world and everyone in it other than through a silly "left/right"paradigm is quite funny'

Are you saying there is no conflict between revolution and reaction or that, even if there is, it's unimportant?

Posted by: ruralito | Nov 16, 2013 2:46:26 PM | 86

Well the very idea that "left/right" always = "revolution/reaction" is complete nonsense, for starters.

And the individual in question has more in kin with George Bush and his "you're either with us or agin us" then anything else.

His pathetic Gobbels statement earlier is nothing more than the mindless bleatings of a clearly ignorant 3rd rate dogmatic demogogue

Posted by: foff | Nov 16, 2013 3:08:58 PM | 87

Btw i don't outright reject "left/right" as a useful frame for some discussions.

But used in the way the individual in question used it above, it is then little more than a crass woefully inadequate substitute for actual thought and knowledge.

Posted by: foff | Nov 16, 2013 3:35:59 PM | 88

hmmmm....no takers yet....don't give up.

Posted by: dh | Nov 16, 2013 4:34:13 PM | 89

re bevin 64

Meanwhile-and this is the context of all current analysis- the Great depression gathers steam, the economic death spiral goes on. Even the tiny, notional increases in growth of fractions of a percentage point actually show that, absent Quantitative Easing, even the government's stats, spun and falsified though they have been, actually show that things are getting worse.

It is evident that as long as the financial elite find it more profitable to pillage that which exists, the economy will continue to contract. The obvious example is retirement funds, which people have paid into the length of their lives, in order to give them peace in retirement. Vast moneys are involved, and available for pillage by experts. Which is happening.

The fact is that old model, post WW2, where the difference between incomes of the workers, and those of the managers was not great, was better for the economy. The rule remains: better paid workers mean more consumption.

However, the world is not as it was; Chinese products are cheaper. Globalisation is not to be stopped. The Germans have come close to resolving this problem. They have a history of good relations between worker and management, which doesn't exist in the UK or the US. The German negotiators understand that each side has to live.

This is central to development of the economy. The workers have money, they buy, and the economy of the companies develops.

Evidently there is a nationalistic element here: to what extent do German consumers have a tendency to buy German? I leave that question to our German contributors here.

Posted by: alexno | Nov 16, 2013 5:21:12 PM | 90

B's having been "in the German military" is probably less significant to his thinking than the fact that he has chosen to take the name of this site from the the poetry of a man that was chased out of Germany by the nazis on risk of his life. So I doubt b finds it very cute that you come here and try to claim some kind of kinship with him because he was "in the German military" as if that means he is going to go along with twelve year old's assessment of the nazis, an assessment that most in Germany rightly do their best to stamp out to this day and that b has created a site to exposing in its modern form.

Nor is this site so stupid as a place to "discuss military tactics" like a group of dipshits on Stormfront just back from spending their allowance on reenactment SS uniforms. B has made a site devoted to looking at power in our world, and the hypocrisy that comes with it - in the media, in government, and elsewhere. If this was the 1930s, b would be decrying the actions of Germany in the Spanish Civil War, while you would have been goosestepping around your bedroom with a picture of Franco. But then politics obviously isn't something you are suited for examining if you can't grasp the basics of class analysis. Of course there is no right and no left in your world - you've been duped into thinking that even the fullest expression of right wing, elite violence "wasn't the worst thing in the world!" If that's your stance then yes - you're not with me. And you're not with anyone else here, far as I can see.

You seem so bent out of shape to get called a Nazi, which I wouldn't have had you not exposed yourself by sarcastically whining "oh like they're the WORST people on EARTH". The fact is, with that statement, with your silly romantic musings on the nazi armies - better in every way than those stupid Russians! - except that they were so morally weak that instead of rising up to destroy Hitler they sheepishly went along for the ride that ended with the pathetic surrender of their ruined country - their ranks filled with wounded old men and starving young boys.

The fact is I see little trolls like you all over Information Clearinghouse, trying to "rehabilitate" the nazis for whatever reason - "oh, they weren't so bad!". Its fucking gross. Who somehow want to take a stance against the war in Syria when the fact is that they are part of the problem. And I hate to see people try to pull that shit here, a site which is devoted to exposing and attacking aggressive displays of power, not inventing apologies for them.

So come with your sad "I know better!" arguments, just like our old friend "hmm" who also couldn't seem to grow out of his underoos and talk about things without twelve year old insults. Not that being called "stupid" by confused little right wing wiener isn't a real laugh or anything.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 16, 2013 8:23:32 PM | 91

guerilla docudrama dark fantasy on Disneyland:
Plot: Jim, his wife Emily and their two young children Sara and Elliot are staying at Disney World. As they tour the rides, Jim starts to experience strange hallucinations. As he and Emily split up each with a different child, he becomes obsessed with following two French teenage girls he keeps seeing everywhere. There are also rumours of a deadly cat flu outbreak in the park. Jim’s trail leads through an increasingly disturbing series of encounters – a sexual tryst with a woman who claims to be a former Disney princess whose mind snapped and a scientist with a lair beneath the EPCOT Center who claims to be manipulating Jim’s being there.


Without reading up on it, Escape from Tomorrow gives few clues about what the film is going to be. The innocuous title suggests one of the Disney live-action children’s films of the 1970s, while the film’s poster – the image of a bloodied hand reaching up – suggests something that belongs either in a horror film or perhaps a revolutionary manifesto. None of this – even reading about how the film was conceived and shot – prepares you for what is one of the most unique films ever made.
In this case, the means whereby Escape from Tomorrow was made has become the novelty selling point in itself. It was shot by debuting filmmaker Randy Moore and his cast and crew at both Disneyland and Disney World (where the two parks have been blended into a single entity on screen). Moore was obsessed with Disneyland from frequent trips there with his grandfather as a child and determined to place the dark vision of the park in his head onto film. Crucially, the film was shot without any official permission meaning that Moore and crew did everything guerrilla style under the noses of the park’s staff and security. The shoot took place over ten days at Disney World and two weeks at Disneyland. Shots required extensive pre-planning and were walked through and then blocked out between Moore and his cast and crew in nearby hotel rooms. The cast ingeniously had the scripts on their iPhones, which were also used to communicate directions, while microphones to record dialogue were hidden under their clothing. The preplanning went to the extent with Moore even describes how they plotted out the position of the sun at certain times of day so there would be no need for lighting. The camera crew were dressed as regular tourists so that nobody thought it odd they were filming everything with handheld cameras. In interviews, Randy Moore says he was baffled that none of the park crew thought anything suspicious about them riding the same rides over and over to get multiple takes.
etc
http://moria.co.nz/fantasy/escape-from-tomorrow-2013.htm

Posted by: brian | Nov 16, 2013 9:11:09 PM | 92

76


[ex] Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel's mantra
*no crisis should go to waste*
http://williambowles.info/2012/12/18/america-invades-africa-the-resource-war-and-the-conquest-of-mali-by-timothy-alexander-guzman/

in a normal situation, crisis r hard to come by, yet crisis is uncle's blood line !
what to do, what to do ?
the emanuel doctrine is too lame, no wonder he's an *ex*, the modern Crassus[1] has a better idea ,
*create a crisis, offer the solution* !

by now it should be common knowledge that murica has its grubby paws behind practically every crisis in the world [2]

now the big question.....
did god wrought a miracle,er, diaster, every time uncle needs one ?
or just the angels playing their haarp ?

*Summer 1998 also brought a bad drought to the USA, whose government nonetheless continued to resist the Kyoto Protocol on reducing global warming.

One explanation fits the paradox: the US has been working on a military system to control the weather, called HAARP. The US wouldn’t care to comply on Kyoto if it were planning to control the weather anyway, or if its own 1998 drought were part of testing HAARP, or if the US and Russia now agreed that hotter weather
strengthened their hand versus the "South", the Third World and Islamic countries.*
http://www.mediamonitors.net/leonard26.html

before everybody cry *conspiracy nut*, pse listen to this...

from the horse mouth,
zbig
*Technology will make available, to the leaders of major nations, techniques for conducting secret warfare, of which only a bare minimum of the security forces need be appraised... Techniques of weather modification could be employed to produce prolonged periods of drought or storm*
[n earthquake ?]

mind u, that was more than three decades ago !
http://www.mediamonitors.net/leonard26.html

ref
http://www.globalresearch.ca/environmental-warfare-and-us-foreign-policy-the-ultimate-weapon-of-mass-destruction-2/5357909?print=1

http://www.globalresearch.ca/environmental-modification-techniques-enmod-and-climate-change

http://www.globalresearch.ca/atmospheric-geoengineering-weather-manipulation-contrails-and-chemtrails/20369

[1]
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ARTICLE5/
[2]
*Pick any ongoing conflict in the world and see if you do not see the secret hands of the fukusi busily at work fanning the flames. These flames are the legends *
http://www.countercurrents.org/chamberlin110908.htm

Posted by: denk | Nov 16, 2013 11:50:20 PM | 93

76

Posted by: denk | Nov 17, 2013 12:00:45 AM | 94

Alexno,
From a happy refugee in Germany: they always try to buy German. Why not? like everybody else, they know these are good products! Kitchen appliances, construction tools, plumbery, planking screws and joints, you name it. Even in the Middle East people know that if they can get a hand on a German product, it will function better and last longer than the Chinese/American/French/Italian equivalents.

Posted by: Mina | Nov 17, 2013 6:21:53 AM | 95

It's far more revealing to b's outlook that he named this site after a poem written by a man chased out of his homeland by the nazis. My guess is that that far more important to his worldview than the fact that he was in the German military, and I'd also guess that he wouldn't be too impressed with your attempts to draw some kind of kinship to him over that fact.

And this site isn't about something so droll as "military strategy" - something better suited to geeks on Stromfront discussing a day spent out of their mom's basements routing imaginary Russians ( having spent their allowance on some spiffy new SS reenactment uniforms). This site is about exposing the aggressive power plays of governments, not, as you seem to think, apologizing for them. It's about parsing politics - something you can't seem able to do, seeing how you seem to think centuries of political thinking is all hokum - oh yes, you genius.

You get bent out of shape over being called a nazi. I said it, and everyone read it, you silly sarcasm: "Oh the nazis, they're THE WORST aren't they!" Along here with your silly romantic fetishizing the nazi army - so much better than those nasty stupid Russians! - except for one saved their country while the other - sheepishly cowed by some impish little psycho - left their own in ruins, surrendering with their ranks filled with wounded old men and young boys. They failed to see then - as you fail to see now - that there IS something to the battle between left and right, between elite and the rest - and their failure to see that lead to the destruction of their country. The same thing that will happen to the United States and Israel as they get dragged into whatever bloody adventure on the basis of their "exceptionalism" or their "chosenness".

Guys like you are a dime a dozen over at ICH. Rehabilitating the nazis, using others principled attacks on US and Israeli power to slip in your vast little hates and scummy little agendas. We've seen you before, that troll "hmm..." comes to mind. Nothing but dumb insults and a right wing drudgery. Enjoy it while you can.

Posted by: guest77 | Nov 17, 2013 9:57:01 AM | 96

Prof. Eben Moglen on Snowden & NSA spying talk 1 of 4

Prof. Eben Moglen's lectures on the implications of Edward Snowden's revelations. What he has given us and what we need to do now if we want to life in a free society in the future

Better quality above, (at his site) but here's YT's version

I highly recommend the time it takes to watch these...

Bonus: Meditate on these, The Extraordinary Pierre Omidyar

Unfortunately this will go behind a paywall in about 15 hours, read it while you can:

A Hard Look At the Non-Profit Behind Glenn Greenwald’s New Publication ...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 17, 2013 7:37:16 PM | 97

#96.....

Wow man, great post. Theres nuthin' like good 'ol intelligent ad hominem. Its like poetry. Kudos.

Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Nov 17, 2013 7:42:50 PM | 98

Well as dumb insulters go theres few to match you here. Your insults are about as effective as your maths skills.

Following your "logic", what little there is of it, Since i actually commended to skills of the soviet general Zhukov, as any non-idiot can plainly see, then by your moronic "logic" that would also require me to be pro-soviet, if one were being consistant. But stupidity and dishonesty such as yours rarely ever requires much in the way of consistancy.

The only consistant thing you demonstrated so far is your own stupidity and dishonesty.

As you well know my reference to nazis was disparaging your fellow fanboi's utterly lame use of nazis to defend Mr Brand.

Obviously none of what I say now will make any difference, since, being a dogmatic irrelevant airhead, you yourself are sure to continue to display all the honesty and integrity one would usually associate with people such as the nazis. Well done

Posted by: foff | Nov 17, 2013 8:47:21 PM | 99

You, an alleged creature of the left, clearly display all the dishonesty and lack of integrity one finds so abundant on the right.

Left-fascists such as yourself, are just as despicable as right-fascists. "Isms" tend to have that effect on people of little integrity, and even less intelligence, such as yourself

Posted by: foff | Nov 17, 2013 8:52:52 PM | 100

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