Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 28, 2013

Chutzpah

There are parasites. Some are rather harmless. When their host goes hungry they will also go hungry. Others are more demanding. Even a hungry host will not stop them from feasting:
At a time when sequestration is about to take a big bite out of the Pentagon budget, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) will be sending thousands of its citizen lobbyists to Capitol Hill next week to make sure Israel is exempted from any spending cuts.
...
The 13,000 expected AIPAC activists will be telling Congress not to touch Israel's $3-billion-plus annual security assistance and to vote for legislation declaring the Jewish state a "major strategic ally."

That is a designation not enjoyed by any other nation, JTA pointed out, noting it may be a step toward the goal of some conservatives of divorcing assistance to Israel from all other foreign aid spending.

AIPAC's annual policy conference begins Sunday and culminates Tuesday with personal visits by constituents to hundreds of members of the House and Senate.

This should be a good chance to highlight the issue of rather outrageous U.S. payments to the zionist state. Israel getting its subsidizes while local school lunch programs get cut might awake some citizens' critique. The attempt to automatically involve the U.S. in a war that Israel's hardliners would like to start should add to the outrage.

Posted by b on February 28, 2013 at 12:06 PM | Permalink

Comments

I was really interested to read that Israel may pay the families of the Turkish citizens killed aboard the Mavi Marmara. Wonder where that money will come from...

Posted by: guest | Feb 28, 2013 12:21:55 PM | 1

So predictable. Strategic Ally.

Ah strategy; so rarified, so indefinable.

Posted by: L Bean | Feb 28, 2013 1:14:57 PM | 2

@guest: They've showed until now that they won't offer an official apology so what makes you think they'd spend even $1 on the families of the victims?

Totally in line with what Israel is and does. What it wants it takes and it coerces every other country it can to get what it want. If they don't cooperate then it's the anti-semite card or the famous godwin act.

Posted by: Gehenna | Feb 28, 2013 1:35:14 PM | 3

@ b [#0]

Oh, you anti-semetic, holocaust denier medium, you!.

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Feb 28, 2013 4:45:11 PM | 4

Many, many moons ago, when I discussed supplying 'our' men with the Austrian AUG assault rifles, [back in NY], because you can drag them through the mud, drive a truck over them and still fire shots, I was told I was an idiot, because "Yeah, those M-16s are shit rifles, but at least they're free!"

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Feb 28, 2013 5:26:37 PM | 5

Evidently, re 4, we are antisemitic even to mention 'Chutzpah'.

Posted by: alexno | Feb 28, 2013 5:30:49 PM | 6

Talking about shoe-spas, "Just as with Zionism, anti-Semitism and fascism, it has become impossible not to see Islamophobia as a crime against humanity," Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan Wuahahahahhhaaaaa, those gentiles can't even get their shite capitalized!

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Feb 28, 2013 5:38:08 PM | 7

@ alexno [#6],

Q: Evidently, re 4, we are antisemitic even to mention 'Chutzpah'.

R: Freedom of speech guarantees your right to say whatever you want, regardless what others have to say or think about/of your words/message.

It's very easy to capture wrongdoing in the nets of justice, but it's impossible to put the truth behind bars.

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Feb 28, 2013 5:47:58 PM | 8

As I predicted last week, it looks like the US has conceded some major points in their negotiations with Iran yesterday in Kazakhstan. No war with Iran in the immediate future, unless Israel in a fit of suicidal pique decides to defy the US.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9898539/Iran-hails-turning-point-as-world-powers-make-key-nuclear-concessions.html

Posted by: ToivoS | Feb 28, 2013 5:52:20 PM | 9

Damn, Ken, breakfast's over! Anti-Semite?

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Feb 28, 2013 5:59:28 PM | 10

@ ToivoS [#9]

So, what's the mood in Hasbara Central today; are we going Turkey or Turkish?

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Feb 28, 2013 6:12:25 PM | 11

The parasitic nature of US aid to Israel has reached the point where it is egregious.

Israel is starting to export natural gas. Reports last year said that Israel has enough gas to make it a top ten exporter.

So why should the US give them anything? Why don't they pay for everything they get, just like Saudi Arabia?

An interesting sub-narrative is that Bill Clinton is a lobbyist for Noble Energy, which is a major player in eastern Mediterranean gas.

Two years ago, Hillary went to Greece to pressure the government to privatize its underwater resources after a lot of gas was discovered. Meanwhile Bill was touring the area with Noble Energy. Much of the highhanded, coercive Greek bankruptcy policy by the EU probably had to do with those energy resources. No other European debtor nation has been vilified as much as Greece or subjected to the assault that Greece suffered.

Posted by: JohnH | Feb 28, 2013 7:07:45 PM | 12

"The parasitic nature of US...."

There is nothing "parasitic" about that "aid". Western colonial outpost has its role in division of labor within the Western camp and NATO's Mediterranean Initiative. That is how a client regimes works.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Feb 28, 2013 7:37:27 PM | 13

Bob Woodward embodies US political culture in a single outburst


“Can you imagine Ronald Reagan sitting there and saying ‘Oh, by the way, I can’t do this because of some budget document?’ Or George W Bush saying, ‘You know, I’m not going to invade Iraq because I can’t get the aircraft carriers I need’ or even Bill Clinton saying, ‘You know, I’m not going to attack Saddam Hussein’s intelligence headquarters,’ as he did when Clinton was president, because of some budget document.

“Under the Constitution, the president is commander-in-chief and employs the force. And so we now have the president going out because of this piece of paper and this agreement, I can’t do what I need to do to protect the country. That’s a kind of madness that I haven’t seen in a long time.”


You'd think the full-spectrum dominance of Israel in the US would shame the chest-pounding right-wingers. I tried to take that tack with 'my' senators Cornyn and Cruz. A fool's errand certainly, but Bob Woodward can't be the only one in Washington openly clicking his heels and saluting : Sieg Heil Mein Führer!

The end seems so obvious. Are they all either onboard or asleep 'back home'?

Posted by: john francis lee | Feb 28, 2013 8:07:21 PM | 14

#13 neretva that sounds a lot like Chompsky. I like much of what he says about things but that is one that doesn't ring true. I think from the perspective of US imperialism itself, that Israel is a drag on the US. They are not worth the costs. They are a parasite. This is true if one considers themselves a patriotic, left or right leaning citizen or if you are a selfish capitalist (who is not on some Zionist dole) that seeks profit from foreign investment.

Posted by: ToivoS | Feb 28, 2013 8:08:33 PM | 15

Theories of power and hegemony are well known. Technically speaking there is no difference between settler-state and Japan, or S. Korea or Norway, just to mention few. 70% of new Boing's 787 is made outside of US, mainly in Japan. That's is how the hegemon is paying its vassals, to hold them in own orbit.

Posted by: neretva'43 | Feb 28, 2013 9:07:50 PM | 16

“We do support people. Evidence can be found here and here.” -- Anonymous senior WH official, who wasn’t allowed to say anything about this sensitive issue, but couldn’t keep his piehole shut anyway.

No worries, Ken. Written during a delayed coffee break.

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Feb 28, 2013 9:21:56 PM | 17

@ neretva'43 [#13]

How would you describe the role of AIPAC/Others in the US' foreign policy making [if any]?

I do understand your angle of the benefits to the Empire of having 'outposts' and bribing others into becoming 'friends' with said empire, but would you put, say, Pakistan's lobbying activities and financial insurgency on par with the 'only democracy in the ME's' efforts?

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Feb 28, 2013 9:26:52 PM | 18

Toivos;


There are several problems with your stance:

First of all the history of Israel predates AIPAC by a very long time. Creation of Israel was a result of the British colonial policy (and its application to Middle East). I am not sure how you would argue about the effect of AIPAC on say Balfour declaration? Like all of the old European dominions, Israel and the Arab colonies too were inherited by the new protector of the global capitalism called US of A.

Secondly, Israel helped USA greatly in maintaining its hegemony in the ME and in getting rid of nuisances such as Jamal Abdol Nasser. Israel was a 'tool' (and a precious tool in that) in subjugating the oil rich states in this region and helped a great deal in sky rocketting the profits of the western oil companies.

Thirdly, the policy of USA in middle east is not dissimilar to its policies elsewhere on the globe. The blood campaign in Indonesia and the replacement of Sukarno with Suharto, inheriting the vietnam war from the french and continuing it, operation condor and the blood bath in Latin America etc etc. are not any different from what USA has done in ME and none of them had anything to do with 'Israel'.

Now I can understand that there might be an appeal to 'patriotic' Americans in externalizing the guilt of US actions in ME from the shoulders of USA onto an external evil entity called "Israel". But as appealing as this idea maybe it simply is not true:
Western imperialism (first British and then American)is NOT the result of Israel, it is the other way around: Israel is the result of the western imperialism.

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Feb 28, 2013 11:07:42 PM | 19

@ 19:"Western imperialism (first British and then American)is NOT the result of Israel, it is the other way around: Israel is the result of the western imperialism."

IMO, absolutely true.

Posted by: ben | Feb 28, 2013 11:19:53 PM | 20

P.S.--Useful tools are not cheap.

Posted by: ben | Feb 28, 2013 11:22:17 PM | 21

@2 I don't know if they will or not. I just read it in: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-02-270213.html

Posted by: guest | Mar 1, 2013 12:03:07 AM | 22

Sorry #2, I meant @#3

Posted by: guest | Mar 1, 2013 12:27:19 AM | 23

Pirouz_2 - 19

Funny how a colony, or "tool", has managed to interject a vast support network for itself in all those "mother countries" who supposedly run this colony. Why would a colony need something like the zionist lobby in a mother country? And more importantly, what mother country would ever allow a colony to interject such a powerful support network inside its borders (AIPAC is only a small fraction of the network used by Israel and its backers in the USA)?

The relationship between Israel and the rest of the capitalist poligarchy running the west is not that of colony and coloniser, but probably one of a "good ole boys" club.

Posted by: вот так | Mar 1, 2013 1:21:44 AM | 24

@19 Pirouz_2 it is difficult to refute your argument because the temporal order of events supports your conjecture. But even if Western imperialism created the conditions that helped establish Israel, and at times in the past found Israel useful in pursuing its goals, it does not explain why they would continue to support that state today. Capitalist can be quite ruthless in discarding practices that were profitable in earlier times.

Israel has stopped being profitable to Western imperialism for at least the last 5 decades. They have become a money losing proposition. The problem is that the US is so wealthy that we can afford the losses. I believe the Iraq war has awakened many of the power players to the realization that Israel is becoming too expensive. We should have learned that with the big oil shock after 1973. But by then the lobby had become too powerful within US politics to change our policies.

As much as I appreciate Walt and Mearsheimer's analyses of the problem, there is one thing in their work that has always been prominent. They support US world hegemony. They are not radicals. What they maintain is that our support for Israel undermines the goals of US influence in the rest of the world. I think they are right. Now for political reasons I support W & M's work, but not for the same reasons they do. Consider it a pragmatic alliance -- in this case what is good for US imperial interests is also good for justice for the Palestinians and a more peaceful world in general.

Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 1, 2013 2:42:58 AM | 25

Off topic:

"He [Bradley Manning] decided to take a copy of the data on a memory stick when he went back from Iraq to the US on leave in January 2010. There, having failed to interest the Washington Post and the New York Times in the stash of information, he turned to WikiLeaks." - source: Guardian

Now, why would two major newspaper, who'd die to make a killing with screaming headlines, turn this particular news 'bomb' down?

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Mar 1, 2013 3:13:30 AM | 26

This should be a good chance to highlight the issue of rather outrageous U.S. payments to the zionist state.

Should be.

But it won't be.

Posted by: Maxcrat | Mar 1, 2013 3:36:16 AM | 27

From my understanding, the roots of USrael, the reason for why it exists today in the form it does, can be traced back to ancient times.

Look at the US flag, based on the British East India Company flag, thirteen red and white stripes, color standard of the Hebrew tribe of Dan.

Add the Rothchilds into the mix, the family that owns the Bank of England, US Fed and 80% of Israeli land, the family who bought Reuters which then bought Associated Press, and you got your super glue holding the two nations together.

In 1842 the British royals stole Hong Kong from the Chinese via an opium drug deal. The Russel family, who controlled the US arm of the Rothchild drug smuggling operation set up the Skull & Bones fraternity at Yale university. The rest is history.

The US and Israel are the same entity, today's manifestations of an inbred bloodline who believes they are destined to rule us all.

Posted by: Juan Moment | Mar 1, 2013 8:51:04 AM | 28

Pirouz_2 - 19

To continue with 24

"Creation of Israel was a result of the British colonial policy (and its application to Middle East). I am not sure how you would argue about the effect of AIPAC on say Balfour declaration?"

Israel was not a colonial project of the British. The Rothschilds had to blackmail the establishment in Britain, and the rest of Allied Europe, with continued WW1 war funding in order to get them to OK a zionist presence in Palestine. That is what brought the Balfour declaration. From its very beginning, the zionist colonization of Palestine was unnecessary to the established imperial orders in both Europe and the USA. They had no difficulty bring the region under colonization, once they knocked out the Ottomans. Zionism had only the support of a small fraction of that establishment.

That small fraction wanted Palestine not as a colonial foothold into the ME for the imperial orders, but for their own Jewish supremacist interests. The zionist project was never based upon the old colonial order, but upon the desire of powerful zionists in the establishment to have their own religious/cultural base of operations, to provide themselves eventually with their own "London" or "New York" alternate centre of power, from which they could maintain their own independence and perhaps gain dominance in the oligarchic power structure, which is western capitalism. This is why Israel, and zionism, have steadily increased in power in the western establishment, and why zionist power is constantly being infiltrated into every corner of the planet.

The Israel project was not popular among the western polygarchy, as a whole, and why it didn't just suddenly "appear", but instead had to be slowly and steadily grandfathered in to the western establishment. In the USA, zionism didn't have much support, even among the established Jewish members of the capitalist hierarchy there, till the 30's. With both the European and American establishment, the zionists used a varied of arguments and blackmail to get backing for their Israel project.

The idea that Israel would facilitate western colonialism in the ME originated with the zionists as a way to sell Israel to recalcitrant members of the imperial order. A lot of the establishment didn't buy that line, so that is where the blackmail and other dirty tricks were brought into play by the zionists. Only a minority of the American establishment was in favour of Israel in 1948, and it took till around the 60's for the zionists to be able to fully integrate Israel into the American establishment.

Posted by: вот так | Mar 1, 2013 9:39:22 AM | 29

BOT TAK@29

Nice!

I've always found history fascinating, but as many of us realize (unfortunately much later in life) that most of the history we've been taught in the u.s. is basically bunk. They'll get dates right and point to important historical events, but rarely are the deep ramifications of why such events happen, or how such things occur, ever discussed.

History gets twisted to serve the needs of those seeking control. Bot Tak has often pointed-out about our slave history previous to the 1800's is rather different than what we're told in school (as a side note; who controlled the slave ships again?)

And my two personal two favorites: Native American history (go deep down that rabbit hole and you'll curse hollywood's version for the rest of your life... the trendy types who worship the horse indians are in love with post-european natives not the real thing) And Western water rights are also a gas to spend time researching. Just more of the haves taking all they can, while others suffer.

Israel is the gangsters hide-out fur sure. Until that mess if fully unwound the world ain't gonna have any peace. Sucks! For those dorks who still think the place is our ally, just google the USS Liberty and you'll soon know how much our Middle Eastern 'ally' thinks of us.

Peace

Posted by: DaveS | Mar 1, 2013 10:37:27 AM | 30

"As I predicted last week, it looks like the US has conceded some major points in their negotiations with Iran yesterday in Kazakhstan. No war with Iran in the immediate future, unless Israel in a fit of suicidal pique decides to defy the US."

You predicted, I hoped, and together, we got it done! It's a start. Only a matter of time before we consider them akin to America's Foundling Fathers!

Posted by: Mooser | Mar 1, 2013 11:02:19 AM | 31

Gosh, BOT ( No. 29) you really do admire the hell out of the Zionists, don't you. With all the power you impute to them, how will we ever defeat them. Should we even bother to try? And gosh, even if we do defeat the Zionists, how will we keep them from trying it again and again, as they have for the past 2500 years or so?
There's a better way to look at it, BOT. Just think, if Jews weren't so wrapped up in Zionism, and its failure, we would have turned the US Socialist by now! So count your blessings, BOT!

Posted by: Mooser | Mar 1, 2013 11:09:46 AM | 32

I tried to post a message to Tovios, but for some reason it didn't go through...I will divide it into 2 or 3 parts and try again.

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 1, 2013 11:33:44 AM | 33

@Toivos;

This is a very heavily debated topic, and both sides of the argument have presented their side in every detail. So probably there is not much point in my explaining my views over and over again. So I just do the following brief comments just for the sake of clarity:

Simple rule of capitalism is that you don’t make an investment based on ‘emotional’, ‘racial’ or ‘religious’ reasons. You make investments based on rate of return. You don’t make stupid investments because you’re ‘Jewish’ and have some ‘religious bond’ to a piece of worthless desert, you make decisions based on how useful Israel is in creating/maintaining your hegemony in the most strategic piece of global map called Middle East.

*IF* you make the mistake of making a stupid investment with little or no rate of return (based on ‘emotional’ or ‘religious’ feelings) you simply go bankrupt! Easy as that. And it doesn’t take 50 years of carrying a burden to go bankrupt. Those capitalists who are smarter than you and make no such mistake, out-compete you in a much shorter time and push you to bankruptcy.

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 1, 2013 11:34:56 AM | 34

@Toivos (cont'd);

So this argument that Israel has been nothing but a burden for the passed 50 years, does not make much sense to me. It also does not hold against evidence: the energy corporations have made enormous profits in the passed 50 years and this mainly because of the US hegemony in the Middle East. And Israel was of extreme use in creating/maintaining that hegemony by CRUSHING the national pro-independence movements in ME (Iran is an exception, US did that one without using Israel in 1953).

The Western corporations (ie. The true owners/rulers of the western ‘democracies’) buy *crude* which has been only minimally processed, at as cheap a price as possible, processes that crude adding to it a huge amount of value and then sell it at high profits, and not only that, but they also use that fuel as a raw material to produce industrial goods to export to the colonies in the ME which have pretty much zero export except ‘crude’ and import pretty much everything else.

So ME colonies are not just a source of energy raw material but also an invaluable market so that the created surplus value can be realized and turned into profit.

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 1, 2013 11:36:10 AM | 35

@Toivos (cont'd):
Of course I say ME countries serve as a ‘market’ for finished goods made by western corporations (note here I am not saying ‘west’, I am saying ‘western corporations’, because a ‘western corporation’ may be producing its goods –such as iphone, ipad and i-shit- in china, India or Vietnam using the slave labour in those countries, but it is nonetheless the Western capital and western corporations).

But it is not the peasants in Egypt, Iran or Turkey or the Bahraini Shiites who use the ijunk, but rather it is the wealthy elite. So while the burden of misery to produce “profit” for the Western corporations is on the shoulder of the vast majority of people, the wealthy corrupt elite (ie. The comprador bourgeoisie) create the “market” for western junks from ishit to completely useless junk such as F-15s, F-16s, F-35s (ie Turkey). This could not take place, people could not be subjugated to such misery without hegemony, and that ‘hegemony’ in ME was created/maintained in no small part thanks to Israel!

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 1, 2013 11:37:09 AM | 36

@ Toivos (cont'd):

By the way, some people always talk about US being after ‘hegemony’ in the ME, that is not a very accurate description of the situation: US has had hegemony in ME since after WWII. The better wording would be:
US is only after maintaining its hegemony which seems to be eroding (although I am not sure if it is eroding as fast as some people might want to believe).
But then again if the US hegemony is eroding, if the US is losing its control over the events, is that an avoidable outcome whose blame can be put on “Israel”? In my opinion ‘no’.

Hegemony is not ‘ever-lasting’. It has never been so in the history and it will never be so. People wake up. Sooner or later they start to industrialize. National bourgeoisie starts to gain consciousness and fights against comprador bourgeoisie. People are not passive entities to be hegemonized in peace for ever. They resist. And as they resist hegemony weakens. That is very natural and can hardly be blamed on Israel which was instrumental in creating that hegemony in the first place and then maintaining it.

Posted by: Pirouz_2 | Mar 1, 2013 11:38:13 AM | 37

The $3 billion Israel gets "officially" is nothing in comparison to what they siphon off "unofficially". For example:

This Year’s Subsidy to Wall Street = the Amount of This Year’s Sequester Cuts

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/02/this-years-subsidy-to-wall-street-the-amount-of-this-years-sequester-cuts.html

"Since we’ve bailed out the 10 largest banks $83 billion this year alone, should they give it back to us by paying into the U.S. Treasury the amount of this year’s sequester? After all, it’s the same amount."

Posted by: вот так | Mar 1, 2013 3:42:57 PM | 38

Pirouz_2 you make as good of a case for your position as can be expected. There was one thing you seemed to be saying that I have to disagree. Wealthy Jews in the West give huge amounts of money to Israel and to US politicians to support Israel. These are not capitalist investments. There is no direct monetary return. I would say that they are altruistic donations to enhance the Jewish state (if we define altruism as the belief in or practice of disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of other Jews).

Posted by: ToivoS | Mar 1, 2013 5:14:04 PM | 39

@ Pirouz_2 [#34],

You try to reason and paint a picture based on [more or less] reality itself. Unfortunately you're barking up the wrong tree here. Normal trees just grow and provide shelter from rain, add nutrition to their surroundings and when they die, help in the growth and sustainability of next generations. You're dealing with trees here, who've grown up in the 'ivy' league. Nevertheless, I really appreciate your personal thoughts and input, because I can't find anything wrong with it and even if I did, you're being honest.

Posted by: Daniel RIch | Mar 1, 2013 5:26:58 PM | 40

What would 'god' say?

Posted by: Daniel RIch | Mar 1, 2013 6:11:41 PM | 41

@ToivoS #39:

You say:

Wealthy Jews in the West give huge amounts of money to Israel and to US politicians to support Israel. These are not capitalist investments. There is no direct monetary return. I would say that they are altruistic donations...

Many major Zionist donors give to non-profits, rather than business investments, true. In large part, they alone know their motivation. Some of them probably give from a sense of zionist altruism or to enhance their charitable profile among the "right people" (just as those wealthy people who support the charities favored by other "right people" might support the local ballet, museum or opera), as well as to reap the tax benefits from charitable giving. Others have been shown to receive favors by supporting zionist causes -- like Marc Rich who gave millions to Birthright and then got Barak to push for his pardon when Clinton thought that he was calling about a peace deal.

But one other possibility is that wealthy people, like many other people, have secrets. Individuals or organizations that have access to information about their secrets can try to leverage behavior. Not only does Israel have access to all of the info that American intelligence uses to spy on its own citizens. Israel is listed as second only to China as spying on American businesses. It would be very easy for Israel to get dirt on some wealthy Americans and, considering the level of their respect for diaspora Jews, what would prevent Israel from blackmailing Americans?

Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Mar 1, 2013 7:41:23 PM | 42

Good Grief! This place really is turning into Hasbara Central, including tedious diatribes that deflect from the question of "Israel getting its subsidizes while local school lunch programs get cut".

Oh, and #28 with this "thirteen red and white stripes, color standard of the Hebrew tribe of Dan" crap. Not here please. Surely you can find some people of your own age-group to play with.

Posted by: DM | Mar 2, 2013 12:20:33 AM | 43

43) and all this just to deflect from the fact that wealthy people in the US hate to pay taxes.

Sorry, b. this is the very core and essence of right wing strategy.

Israel is what it is because of the US not the other way round.

Posted by: somebody | Mar 2, 2013 2:55:38 AM | 44

“We know what must be done…We need a few massacres – highly publicised, newspapers with stories of death, rape and burning. As soon as you shoot a few in the village square – that’s how you empty a village." - David

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Mar 2, 2013 3:47:52 AM | 45

It seems to me that there is less of a disconnect than many are making between the designations of client versus parasite state in the Israel/US relationship. There are many many client states that the US has viewed as useful over the years that have, from the perspective (often of hindsight) of US imperialism, have later become liabilities. American imperialists were not too happy with their various South Vietnamese puppets, but the troops stayed in there for quite a few years. Israel, of course is a drain on our tax dollars (but so is the vast majority of the military-national security-industrial complex). It's policies towards the Palestinians engender hatred towards the US because of US support for Israel, but hell, that just keeps the lucrative "war on terrorism" going. It also is useful for various clandestine activities such as funneling aid to a dying apartheid regime in South Africa when it has become politically inexpedient for the US to do so or similarly to route arms to the terrorist Contras in Nicaragua (to cite just two examples). I think that, at this point, there is a split among US imperial planners between those that still see Israel as an asset and those that see it as a liability. Into that mix comes domestic politics, the Zionist lobby, and (in more recent years) rampant Islamophobia, which serve to put a thumb on the scales in Washington. My view is that if a consensus arose among US imperial planners that Israel was entirely a liability, the aid would dry up and Israel would be abandoned like any other client state that no longer serves its purpose.

Posted by: Rojo | Mar 2, 2013 4:27:26 AM | 46

Isreal and the u.s. are very similar in that they are 'occupied' by peoples who have no real historical ties to the landmass they claim as home. Both places exist today because of massive warfare against the natives as well as massive influxes of peoples "searching for something better". Both lay claim to being a promised land for those searching for such a place, and both require the residents to believe they are somehow better or smarter than others because of where they have chosen to live.

I read somebody's response @44 and I can't help but thing most folks see it this way. But at least since Reagan, Israel has had a very heavy hand in Washington... I'd argue Zionist interest have been ruining, ahem, running things since then (if not since 1913). And it isn't just the rich who hate paying taxes. I do too. The less money I send the government, the less they have to buy bombs and guns with.

People are so stuck by their dogmas they don't see the bigger picture. Yes, the u.s. is a puppet state of the Zionist, just look at how much focus is spent on our middle east policies vs other places(it isn't all about energy, the u.s. has plenty of that)... and look at what our policies have been – always worried about our 'big ally' there... the ally who tried again and again to sink the USS Liberty (but failed, I guess they ain't so smart after all) And if you don't see Zionist thumbprints all over 9/11 you ain't looking very hard. I'm really amazed at how stupid the masses are... 9/11 was such a huge event, yet things like Israelis driving around in moving vans with explosives and being ready to photograph the events as they unfolded, seem pretty obvious to me. With any crime, look who benefited and you'll likely know who committed the crime. Who benefitted from the destruction of the Twin Towers? It wasn't Arab terrorist but a heap of wealthy hebrews... and of course the military industrial complex.

And unlike a lot of my redneck friends and neighbors, I don't harbor ill will towards all the Jewish folks of the world, I'm not christian enough for that. Seriously, when I was young I wished I'd have been born jewish because I thought jewishness was cool. As I've gotten older and experienced more life (working in both media and Aspen for too many years) and I've come to know another side of jewishness that unfortunately is much like what's written in the Protocols of Zion. No, not all jewish folks are like that. But the ones who made money hand over fist sure were. At least the ones I've dealt with have been. Even now I have jewish buddies (and they know I post this sort of thing) who are really nice friends... but they are weird about money. One couple have a few rental units and as far as landlords are, well, they're not very good. Most of their tenants are poor whose rent is paid by the state so my buddy and his wife get their money... but oy vey, what ratty places they keep. As I said, they keep getting paid so as far as they're concerned, it's all good. And don't ask the neighbors what they think of their choices of tenants...

I wish 9/11 would have never happened. I could still be happily working aspen goyim slaving for the man and not realizing how fucked-up everything has been since the red shield rose in Frankfurt. I'd still be thinkin' we need to send the A-rabs to their heavenly Mecca, and might makes right. So I guess not everything about 9/11 was bad... it opened more than a few minds.

I don't want to dislike anyone, but these days I'm a lot more careful about who I do business with. And who I trust. Nothing is like it seems and few are who they claim.

Peace

Posted by: DaveS | Mar 2, 2013 9:53:57 AM | 47

israel is kid stuff compared to this one..

http://web.archive.org/web/20070807055239/http://www.zmag.org/ZSustainers/ZDaily/2001-04/09herman.htm">http://www.zmag.org/ZSustainers/ZDaily/2001-04/09herman.htm">http://web.archive.org/web/20070807055239/http://www.zmag.org/ZSustainers/ZDaily/2001-04/09herman.htm

Posted by: denk | Mar 2, 2013 11:01:54 AM | 48

somebody - 44

"Israel is what it is because of the US not the other way round."

Yes, those poor, sweet, innocent Israelis. wouldn't hurt a fly if it wasn't for the USA.

That is the standard propaganda line of the zionist pretend leftist. In fact, if one doesn't subscribe to it, the person gets labeled an antisemite by those phony leftists. I mean that literally.

The purpose of this misdirection of the facts of history is to protect Israel, its supporters worldwide and the zionist project. If the criminality of Israel can be ascribed to another party, then the focus will be on that other party and Israel walks. That leaves zionism free to work its wonders on its other "hosts". Which it does. If American support for zionism was somehow interrupted, Israel would get what it wants from its other "hosts" in Europe and elsewhere, just like the zionists did before the Americans were brought on board the zionist project in any real numbers. The zionists use this misdirection ruse so Israel will be well protected behind patsies, much as organised criminals would. Knock out one of the patsies and Israel continues on undisturbed behind the other patsies.

On the other hand, the opposite of this, that the "patsies" are innocent, is equally fraudulent. The USA, and Europe, are just as guilty as Israel for the mess this world is in. Their leadership (oligarchs) is just as fascist, and would be doing essentially much of the same things they are doing today without a zionist influence. Or trying to. One of the main ways the zionists have helped this NWO fascism is with PR, where they excel. The zionists were the main vector behind the neutralisation of the left in the west. Without the zionists, it is likely the people of the west might have managed to restrain their fascist oligarchies, perhaps even dumped them. But that can only be speculation now.

Posted by: вот так | Mar 2, 2013 11:26:13 AM | 49

There's been an endless debate on these threads as to whether the US exploits Israel as a vassal, in order to project its policies in the Middle East, or whether it is that Israel uses the US for its own interests. The point of view depends on whether the US is the main evil or Israel.

In the past, in the Middle East, Jewish communities sought to be close to power, in order to survive. It was the same strategy as available to women: persuade the ruler personally.

In Ottoman Istanbul, the Jewish community was very close to power. That is the explanation why Israel had a good relationship with Turkey recently, but also why it fails now.

The same strategy has been employed in the US: be close to power. Unfortunately, the existence of Israel leads to extremes which are difficult to satisfy.

Posted by: alexno | Mar 2, 2013 4:57:01 PM | 50

@ alexano [#50],

One seed will produce a thousand new ones. One dollar will produce ...? I'm a fervent heretic myself, but am aware of others who read books penned down by 'god' knows who. Word has it that the theme song about 'usury' is a tad bit universal. As always, follow the money. I don't think parking the golden calf in the FED's vault is that deity's idea of not worshiping greenbacks, but then again, what do I know?

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Mar 2, 2013 6:46:33 PM | 51

48
here's the working link
http://www.zcommunications.org/uncle-chutzpah-gets-back-into-the-ring-by-edward-herman

Posted by: denk | Mar 2, 2013 8:41:03 PM | 52

Might as well add this to the pile.

Posted by: ruralito | Mar 2, 2013 10:14:58 PM | 53

talking about chutzpah , how could we leave out uncle ?
uncle chutzpah is a legend.

*Getting Beijing to mind its own business*
http://info.japantimes.co.jp/text/eo20040314db.html

what happened ?
has china feted the representative of the exiled chagosians in
beijing, the way fukus has been doing with dalai [cia] lama in
washington ?
has china invited any puerto rican freedom fighters to speak to
the ccp congress ?
[impossible, all the puerto rican *terrarists* are either *liquidated*
or rotting in jail]
did china demand fukus giving back america itself [1] to the
native americans ?
has the ccp just passed a resolution censuring police brutalities
in fukus ?
has china demanded a un resolution condemning fukus serial
aggressions ?

none of the above !

turns out that china was merely pissed off by another in ur face
meddling in hk, starring martin [ned] lee [2] !

hello !
fukus interferes brazenly , massively, violently into china's
internal affair [3]
but *china* is the one who ought to *mind its own god damned
biz* ?
these must be god's chosen people speaking, make way israel. !


i think they call it *blaming the victim* in english.
the chinese say it better, *a robber crying out robbery* !
a signature hallmark of fukus chutzpah since time immemorial.

[1] http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33871.htm
[2] http://cgi.cnn.com/ASIANOW/asiaweek/97/0502/ed1.html
[3] *How long will the countries targeted by American/Islamist
limited warfare continue to tolerate this bold assault? China, in
particular, is presently bound by the economic chains that have
been forged with the United States. How much longer will it
continue to abide provocations in Xinjiang and other Chinese
interests from Central Asia, to Pakistan, to Africa? *
http://www.countercurrents.org/chamberlin190809.htm

Posted by: denk | Mar 3, 2013 10:39:37 AM | 54

This might be of interest, in light of the ongoing discussion of a possible synergetic/symbiotic/idiotic relationship between 2 settler states: ISRAEL AND AMERICA: THE “SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP” THAT ISN’T

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Mar 3, 2013 5:46:09 PM | 55

u just cant discuss chutzpah without mentioning uncle ,
he is a natural !

he keep surpassing himself with each new day
off hand i could think of several examples....the tip of an iceberg

*US: Cuba is a State Sponsor of Terrorism*
http://news.antiwar.com/2013/03/01/us-cuba-is-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism/

obomber , lecturing the chinese
* Washington would continue to emphasize what we believe is the importance of
realizing the aspirations and rights of all people.*
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30538.htm

*that government thought it had a right to defend itself when Uncle was organizing
for its ouster!*
http://www.zcommunications.org/uncle-chutzpah-gets-back-into-the-ring-by-edward-herman

uncle
*sponsoring opposition groups, promoting revolution in ur country is our
internal affair *
http://info.japantimes.co.jp/text/eo20040314db.html

*Angry demonstrations against the U.S. Embassy in Beijing coupled with China's
refusal to believe the bombing was accidental were then turned round by some in
the U.S. to prove that China lacked sincerity, that it was inherently hostile
to America
*
http://info.japantimes.co.jp/text/eo20010521gc.html

i am writing a book , *quotable quotes from land of the free*
all i have to do is copy n paste classics like these,
its now into page 1500....

Posted by: denk | Mar 4, 2013 3:05:08 AM | 56

Have Women Brought About The Extinction of The Sacrament of Marriage Upon Themselves!

Divorce is a Rampant Epidemic especially when the government & the military (NATO) is behind it!

[loooong nonsense deleted - b.]

Posted by: Jes | Mar 10, 2013 6:22:27 PM | 57

"This should be a good chance to highlight the issue of rather outrageous U.S. payments to the zionist state. Israel getting its subsidizes while local school lunch programs get cut might awake some citizens' critique. The attempt to automatically involve the U.S. in a war that Israel's hardliners would like to start should add to the outrage."

You over-estimate the American people.

Posted by: Susan | Mar 10, 2013 10:36:49 PM | 58

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