January 23, 2013
As I am busy with a business deadline I have little time to read and post.
So just a few links:
1. Nir Rosen gave a talk the London School of Economics about his recent time in Syria. He has some interesting insights but seems to play down the jihadists problem. Nir Rosen talk - Syria: From Rebellion to Civil War (75 min)
2. Al Akhbar is publishing diplomatic papers related to Syria liberated from the Qatari government. There are several interesting points in them I expect to write about. For now just the link
to the first batch.
3. Everyone should read the Leveretts at Going to Tehran. The latest: Obama and the (Mis)management of Imperial Decline
4. Cameron gives in to some wingnuts in his party and demands more special treating for Britain in the European Union. He wants Britain to hold an 'in or out' referendum by 2017. This is stupid on many levels. Cameron has no leverage. Should the Brexit occur about every continental European would say "good riddance". By setting the date in 2017 Cameron guarantees that there will be no new or further international business investment in Britain until that date because the framework under which such business would run is not clear. Would that be EU rules or not? Will they have to pay custom when exporting to EU countries? There are sound reason to change many EU rules. But is obviously not the way to achieve that. The guy and his party are a real embarrassment.
5. Pretty amazing. A racist who defends his racial superiority: Jews DO control the media
And then they came to America, the one place that ever really let them have as much power as they wanted, and suddenly they’re taking over. Please don’t tell me that any other group in the world has ever done that. Only the Jews. And we’ve done it before. That’s why the Jews were enslaved in Egypt. We were too successful. Go look at the Torah — it’s right there. And we did it in Germany too.
Posted by b on January 23, 2013 at 01:22 PM | Permalink
5. I think you missed the reason for this article - the context makes it actually quite funny though the original report is the better comedy
Exclusive: Morsy implies Jews control the American media
Last week in Cairo, seven U.S. senators had a highly contentious meeting with Egyptian President Mohamed Morsy during which the Muslim Brotherhood leader implied that he was the victim of an American media run by the Jews.
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) led a delegation last week to Egypt, Jordan, Israel, and Afghanistan that included Sens. Chris Coons (D-DE), Kelly Ayotte (R-NH), Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), and Kirsten Gilibrand (D-NY). Their stop in Cairo included a 90-minute meeting with Morsy that devolved into an uncomfortable set of exchanges as the senators pressed the Egyptian president to explain his 2010 comments describing Jews as "bloodsuckers who attack Palestinians" as well as "the descendants of apes and pigs."
After the meeting, McCain issued a statement saying that the senators "voiced our strong disapproval of the statement" and that the senators and Morsy "had a constructive discussion on this subject." Morsy's spokesman issued a statement after the meeting saying that Morsy believed in religious freedom and "the need to distinguish between the Jewish religion, and those who belong to it, and violent actions against defenseless Palestinians."
But inside the meeting, the discussion over Morsy's 2010 remarks was much more heated than either side publicly acknowledged afterwards, according to Coons. Addressing the comments was the first item on the senators' agenda, and the discussion did not go well, he told The Cable in an interview.
"We tried to give President Morsy an opportunity, now that he is the president, to put his comments in a different context because he was claiming that he was taken out of context. On their face they seemed to be very offensive and inappropriate," Coons said. "It was a difficult conversation."
Morsy told the senators that the values of Islam teach respect for Christianity and Judaism, and he asserted repeatedly that he had no negative views about Judaism or the Jewish people, but then followed with a diatribe about Israel and Zionist actions against Palestinians, especially in Gaza.
Then Morsy crossed a line and made a comment that made the senators physically recoil in their chairs in shock, Coons said.
"He was attempting to explain himself ... then he said, ‘Well, I think we all know that the media in the United States has made a big deal of this and we know the media of the United States is controlled by certain forces and they don't view me favorably,'" Coons said.
The Cable asked Coons if Morsy specifically named the Jews as the forces that control the American media. Coons said all the senators believed the implication was obvious.
"He did not say [the Jews], but I watched as the other senators physically recoiled, as did I," he said. "I thought it was impossible to draw any other conclusion."
"The meeting then took a very sharply negative turn for some time. It really threatened to cause the entire meeting to come apart so that we could not continue," Coons said.
Multiple senators impressed upon Morsy that if he was saying the criticisms of his comments were due to the Jews in the media, that statement was potentially even more offensive than his original comments from 2010.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 23, 2013 3:54:44 PM | 1
Qatar lent Egypt $2.5 billion, all of which appears to have been spent defending the Egyptian pound on the foreign exchange market. It appears that Egypt will have to pay off the Qatari loan by purchasing natural gas from Qatar at inflated prices.
"The import price [for Qatari natural gas] is expected to reach US$14 per 1 million thermal units…The Egyptian government exports gas to Jordan at $5.50 per one million units, while Qatar exports it at more than $9," the Egypt Independent reported December 17. It seems that Qatar is getting its money back by charging Egypt double for natural gas.
Posted by: nikon | Jan 23, 2013 5:16:01 PM | 2
"but seems to play down the jihadists problem"
Rosen plays down a lot of the problems with the terrorists as he takes their side in the talk. Towards the beginning he mentions he finds himself "in a strange position" because he's "in the same place, more or less, with the mainstream", in other words, promoting the same pov as the msm prestitutes. That should have been a wake up call, instead he used that as an intro to a standard soft peddle tactic to preempt the likely response from those opposed to Israeli-American aggressions. IE: "yeah, I'm saying the same things they are (msm), but I'm not coming from their position, I really am concerned with the humanity of all this, and the Syrian government really is evil". A couple of minutes further into it and it is quite clear his pov is "terrorists=good, government=bad" and that this is a soft sell tailored to move those people who oppose these Israeli-American aggressions into supporting this one. He even used a line about the Syrian terrorists being like Hamas in order attract sympathy for them from those who sympathise with the Palestinians.
These are psychological propaganda "tricks" used to set the pace and put the audience in the mood to sympathise with the speaker's pov. He knows many in the audience don't support his disgusting R2P war crimes, so he's using a tack specifically designed to suck them in and sway them over to his biased, and dishonest, and most importantly of all, Israeli-American (NWO) supporting views.
By 10 minutes in, it's also clear his "information" is overly reliant upon the Israeli-American propaganda being dispensed in Nov. 12 about the then situation in Syria. For example, such as the terrorists steadily gaining territory lies that were peddled at that time. Since he had left Syria by early 2012, this makes it clear that he used msm "news" sources to inform himself between that time and Nov., and not alternative. Another indicator of his actual preference for biased material that suits his handlers. One has to wonder what sort of mind would knowingly engage in such extreme duplicity in order to sell the massive suffering these R2P con jobs result in for the people in their way.
I'm not very familiar with past Rosen-speak, but remember reading an article or two by him in the past that seemed reasonable. Now I'm wondering what establishment policy/propaganda I was being subtly influenced to accept. At least now I know what Rosen is about for future reference.
Posted by: вот так | Jan 23, 2013 5:16:56 PM | 3
"Morsy implies Jews control the American media" would be Josh Rogin's slant on Senator Coons' retelling of his meeting with Morsy. Since the New anti-Semitism conflates "anti-Israel" speech with anti-Semitism, it also conflates criticism of zionists with sterotyping all Jews. It doesn't require ownership of all MSM in America by Zionists for the Israel Lobby to wield considerable influence on the shaping of the narrative Americans hear about Israel and about sterotyped Arabs and Muslims. CAMERA is foremost among the Israel Lobby groups that target the MSM, intimidating or wearing down their execs and PR departments.
Also, the joke about "we're too successful at controlling the media for our own good and have been since the Pharoahs" is funny the first time you hear it. But having seen it used to troll too many comment sections for years on the GOS whenever the subject of the influence of the Israel Lobby has been raised, it has become way past stale.
Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Jan 23, 2013 5:27:34 PM | 4
Ted Rall slices and dices Zero Dark Thirty
Posted by: ruralito | Jan 23, 2013 5:48:56 PM | 5
2. from the 3rd document:
"The Guest: Yes, this is the right message and he cannot be given any more time. We must act now. What is the position of Algeria, are they against the revolution?
His Highness the Crown Prince: It will change its position and they will back the revolution."
I wonder if the recent attack on Algeria by the "always there when you need them Al Qaida" is connected to this "mind changing"? If so, the above reads like a Hollywood film, where the mafia don "changes the mind" of somebody they find problematical.
Posted by: вот так | Jan 23, 2013 5:52:44 PM | 6
"The world is increasingly giving up on the proposition that the United States can act in any manner other than that of an imperial power—even as more and more important players in global affairs are coming to see it as an imperial power in decline. Obama’s second inaugural displayed no appreciation for this reality. And that does not augur well for any meaningful recovery of America’s international standing during Obama’s second term."
Posted by: вот так | Jan 23, 2013 6:13:48 PM | 8
3b. I meant to comment on that conclusion, but accidentally clicked "post".
Imperial powers in decline tend to act desperately to try and maintain their power. That's when harebrained schemes start to take on a "new reality". A good example is imperial Japan in the late 30's and early 40's.
But I'm not so sure Israel-America is in decline. The USA may be, just like some individual nations in Europe are in decline, but the octopus holding all these together continues to expand. Witness the "Arab Spring" and not so "Spring" in Libya and Syria. The new consolidation and expansion into Africa. The expansion of the Israeli-American network in East Asia. They are slowly engulfing everything outside of China and Russia, or trying to. The only real setback they've had recently is in Syria, where China and Russia prevented then repeating the Libya scenario.
I think we should stop thinking of countries in the majority of west as still being independent entities and instead look at the problem as more akin to a giant corporation with the countries of "the west" being subsidiaries of that corporation.
Posted by: вот так | Jan 23, 2013 6:27:52 PM | 9
Making Britain a poor investment place temporarily might serve an intended purpose. For example, drive down the value of existing business and make smaller ones more ripe for swallowing up by the larger businesses.
Posted by: вот так | Jan 23, 2013 6:36:06 PM | 10
No discussion about Jews and Hollywood is complete without Joel Stein's LA Times article "How Jewish is Hollyood?
He writes: "I have never been so upset by a poll in my life. Only 22% of Americans now believe "the movie and television industries are pretty much run by Jews," down from nearly 50% in 1964. The Anti-Defamation League, which released the poll results last month, sees in these numbers a victory against stereotyping. Actually, it just shows how dumb America has gotten. Jews totally run Hollywood"
Read the whole thing at
Posted by: TomV | Jan 23, 2013 6:37:11 PM | 11
Marie Antoinette and Adolph Hitler were also convinced of their superiority and full of similar hubrias. I think it's called hubris and history is replete with individuals, nations and societies that devoutly believed in their own superiority right up to the point of their own extinction.
Posted by: вот так | Jan 23, 2013 6:43:12 PM | 12
That came out rather garbled. What I meant to say was I think that extreme attitude of superiority is a reflection of hubris, if my understanding of the definition of that word is correct.
Posted by: вот так | Jan 23, 2013 6:47:55 PM | 13
As a proud Jew, I want America to know about our accomplishment. Yes, we control Hollywood. Without us, you'd be flipping between "The 700 Club" and "Davey and Goliath" on TV all day.
Forget "without," how about "with" -- as in, with more ethnic and religious diversity in the top brass of Hollywood, maybe we'd see more of the indy perspectives from Sundance or wouldn't be constantly bombarded with stereotypes of "Reel Bad Arabs."
Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Jan 23, 2013 7:40:22 PM | 14
@13, Shtetl Jews, because of cultural pressures, gravitated to show biz. Then they moved West. Now the shetls are gone and ghetto walls have fallen around other professions but many foolish Jews(and Nazis) still believe jewdihood is innate.
Posted by: ruralito | Jan 23, 2013 8:00:42 PM | 15
Israel could stifle so much "anti-Jew" rhetoric by simply treating the people of Palestine like humans. A two-state solution is the only answer.
Posted by: ben | Jan 23, 2013 9:27:54 PM | 16
Talking about Some Links...
There's an interesting article by Karl Müller on Voltairenet
It's called "Less war in the new year?" and in it he refers to Bertolt Brecht's book "Mother Courage." It begins...
Once there was a German Chancellor who said: “Peace is not everything, but without peace everything is nothing.” That was about 40 years ago, however it is still true, but meets with no response in today’s German policy. An editorial of the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung of 18 December 2012 gives evidence of that by blatantly failing to mention what the Germans have gained through their own efforts after the end of the Second World War.
Having waded through Axel Brot's Germany, the Re-engineered Ally on Asia Times several years ago, and several times since, and knowing that Müller, like b, reserves a special place in his psyche for Brecht, I was wondering if b might like to open a thread based on the subjects raised in the FAZ article which inspired Müller to share his thoughts.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 24, 2013 1:41:17 AM | 18
no 4) I think all it has is comedy value. With people like Rupert Murdoch and Warren Buffet, with Saudi and Qatari media, with this list of billionaires
you can only joke about it. And there are just so many jokes you can make, you run out.
Jews have historically been used by right wing movements to divert people from the 1 percent.
And that is what the Muslim Brotherhood is, a right wing movement that was set up to keep people from fighting for their rights.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 24, 2013 2:44:07 AM | 19
I've read that in the beginning of their ascendancy Israelis were glad to have the power of exploring for artefacts related to biblical stories. And that it was very embarassing to find none - no actual evidence e.g. that Jews were in Egypt, that they fled across the desert, that the village of Jericho was never big and important enough to have a wall, etc. This is from a long-ago review in New York Times of a book (title forgotten) by a respected Jewish historian which my library didn't have. What has happened to this notion?
Posted by: lambent1 | Jan 24, 2013 4:46:29 AM | 20
16) The two state solution is not feasible, have a look at the map. There is no room there for two economically and militarily viable entities. It is also not feasible as "Israeli Arabs" are Palestinians and the times of (semi-)legal population transfer are long gone.
I think the "Muslim Brotherhood strategy" is dead, as obviously Muslim Brotherhood ideology has not the ability to accommodate a "Jewish state", and the Muslim Brotherhood being really strong with Salafis pushing them further is beginning to get dangerous for Israel.
Secularism is also "dangerous" for Israel as that undermines its very reason for existence as an apartheid state.
The "Sunni"/Gulf strategy has just died in the Sahara as not being as popular as thought.
The fall back option seems to be the "fight against terrorism". That always works, however any skilled dictator will be able to use it for their own schemes. It is bound to backfire by a) creating more opposition to the US (because of dictators using it for their own schemes) and b) creating well funded "terrorists" (and "terrorist safe havens" that make the earth a dangerous place for business people to walk on.
There must be other solutions.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 24, 2013 5:06:34 AM | 21
@ 21: " The two state solution is not feasible, have a look at the map."
Yes, you may be right that the time is past for the two state solution, but, without that solution, only the demographic future changes, through the electoral process would improve conditions for the people of Palestine. Question is, can they wait that long?
Posted by: ben | Jan 24, 2013 9:23:48 AM | 22
I agree with the sentiment in #19.
Given the importance of mass media in opinion formation, I think that a threshold question is whether any ethnic or religious group should be disproportionately represented.
The data is a bit soft, but there are approximately five million Jews in the USA (1.5% of the population) and around two and a half million Muslims and/or Christian Arabs.
Would it be OK if every Jewish person in the print and broadcast media was replaced by a Muslim or Arab?
Posted by: Watson | Jan 24, 2013 10:49:03 AM | 23
23) That is a good question, the other question is if it was really that hard to take over Hollywood in an otherwise Protestant Puritan country.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 24, 2013 11:37:55 AM | 24
"...The United States has long been the spearhead of western capitalist imperialism, with its running dogs mostly playing second fiddle to its domination. But today, with the US military smarting from blows received in Afghanistan and Iraq, and gearing up for a potential war with new regional nemesis Iran (with the attendant face-off with Iranian allies Russia and China), the time has come for the rising military power of the European Union, internally strengthened by various treaties of economic integration and military co-operation, to take its place as the vanguard of the imperialist forces. Britain and France have already taken part in the destruction of Iraq and the occupation of Afghanistan, and France took the lead role in the bombardment of Libya in 2011 in support of the western proxies there. The EU, with its continuing, rapid integration of economic and military power, will soon be an imperialist force to be reckoned with in the world, a vital bulwark for the United States against the equally growing powers of Russia and China.
And thus, we now have French forces, with the backing of the US and EU, bombing the same rebels they funded and armed to destroy Libya, and French troops (currently around 2,500 of them) gearing up to fight alongside the Malian government to secure the interests of imperialism in the region. One wonders if the French have learned the lessons of their past colonial adventures, for although French officials have claimed that the Mali operation will last only a few weeks, it is very possible that, in facing once again a well armed, battle-hardened and fanatical enemy on its own soil, the imperialists may well be sucked into yet another war that they cannot win, this time against an enemy of their own making."
Alán Camilo Cienfuegos
This is excerpted from Alán Camilo Cienfuegos's article in the Irish Left Review. I cite it as a reminder that the EU is not a rival to but a creation of the US Empire.
Cameron's motives in pushing a referendum in Britain are, no doubt, demagogic and sordid, but that is no reason to object to this rare chance for voters to express their views on the oligarchy which is currently crucifying Greece, Ireland and poor people across Europe.
The EU has taken off its "social" mask in recent years: beyond the control of the people it is leading the way in the lowering of living standards and the theft of public property. Small wonder that its supporters sheer away from referenda as vampires do from garlic: given a chance, in France, The Netherlands, Ireland, anywhere, the people speak with a real international unity. They can recognise an elitist oligarchy when they see one.
It is a pity that so many, otherwise shrewd, intellectuals persist in their support for this, made in America, alliance of satraps and puppets.
Posted by: bevin | Jan 24, 2013 11:39:11 AM | 25
we now have French forces, with the backing of the US and EU, bombing the same rebels they funded and armed to destroy Libya
Kinda like how the Euro powers used the Amerindian tribes against each other. An ever-growing host of settlers proved decisive for the Euros in occupying North America. Settlers are no longer much of a factor in Africa and Asia, except in Israel, and even there the immigration/emigration balance is not particularly promising for the Euro-Israelis.
Posted by: Watson | Jan 24, 2013 12:34:16 PM | 26
in @20 I wondered if there is archeological evidence for the Jewish exodus from Egypt. Now, Googling, I find that there is no evidence except for the recent (2002) claim in
THE EXODUS CASE
Updated and Expanded!
By Dr. Lennart Moller
Hardcover: 320 pages
Publisher: STL Distribution North America (Oct 15 2002)
Product Dimensions: 24 x 17.4 x 2.8 cm
Shipping Weight: 1.2 Kg
From the blurb, there *is* evidence. It is in Saudi Arabia, surrounded by barbed wire and closely guarded, but Jim & Penny Caldwell, photographers, snuck (sic) into Saudi under the cover of darkness and took the pictures of it which are in this book that will grace our coffee tables and is worth twice the price.
This seems to be the only evidence!
Posted by: lambent1 | Jan 24, 2013 1:36:02 PM | 27
bevin at 25, right on.
Cameron has been warned by the US that a 'united' Europe is 'essential.'
In any case the City of London and Finance generally will never allow a withdrawal.
All the rest is demagogics and smoke screens.
Posted by: Noirette | Jan 24, 2013 1:55:32 PM | 28
The best thing Rosen ever wrote/admitted was that the "civilian deaths" claimed by the rebels and reported by the LCC, the SOHR and their msm "quoters" (such as Al-Jazeera) include dead rebels.
Later the SOHR, too, admitted that dead rebels - other than dead deserters - are counted as "civilians".
Assuming that a regular army, better organized than "rebels" and better equipped should on average kill 3-4 rebels for each casualty it suffers AND taking at face value rebel claims of 10-12000 army casualties, this means that between 30-40000 dead "civilians" might in fact have been rebels.
Posted by: KerKaraje | Jan 24, 2013 4:42:58 PM | 29
@ Rusty Pipes [#14],
Once we'll be able to watch TV without references to bar mitzvahs we don't need to have people running around forums to point at everything but who and how we really are.
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Jan 24, 2013 6:17:28 PM | 30
b, thank you for putting my contributions #20 & 27 back! I'd been really disappointed when they vanished! Thank you so much for everything!
Posted by: lambent1 | Jan 24, 2013 6:21:53 PM | 31
KerKaraje - 29
Agree, I looked Rosen up and scanned a couple of his articles about Syria. He writes the same sort of rubbish as the rest of the presstitutes write in the zionist msm. I don't know what I may have read by him before that I thought was reasonable, perhaps I confused him with another writer.
Posted by: вот так | Jan 24, 2013 6:45:09 PM | 32
Somebody making fun of media and media gossip mentioned this television show saying WTH. I had not heard of it (I'm too snobby to watch American TV), so looked I it up to see if they were exaggerating:
Immediately, that quote from Stein in #14 came to mind...
"As a proud Jew, I want America to know about our accomplishment. Yes, we control Hollywood. Without us, you'd be flipping between "The 700 Club" and "Davey and Goliath" on TV all day."
Posted by: вот так | Jan 24, 2013 8:29:28 PM | 33
My point in #20 and 27 is that this guy says
'And then they came to America, the one place that ever really let them have as much power as they wanted, and suddenly they’re taking over. Please don’t tell me that any other group in the world has ever done that. Only the Jews. And we’ve done it before. That’s why the Jews were enslaved in Egypt. We were too successful. Go look at the Torah — it’s right there. And we did it in Germany too.'
But if the Torah is mistaken about the Exodus surely this casts serious doubt on everything it says! And on this guy's opinion of himself!
Posted by: lambent1 | Jan 24, 2013 8:58:35 PM | 34
2) A couple of interesting points from the Qatar leaks:
Memo 1 (6/12, Mursi and Qatar PM), whether Obama has made commitments to Qatar about deeper involvement in Syria:
...We are sincere to begin work and our trust increased following your speech in Tehran. Everyone praised it and, yesterday, in the Arab League meeting, positions changed.
Mursi: There is no room for the word reform. He must leave.
Hamad: We suggested to him that he leaves. Really, it was a powerful speech.
Mursi: How could the Saudi King surprise us with the initiative of dialogue between confessions, while we had agreed about the Syrian issue.
Hamad: Us too. We had met him a day earlier and nobody mentioned it.
Mursi: We want to take a serious position.
Hamad: I think everything will change after the US and German elections. If Obama returns, and it does not matter if he waits till January for his new term. He can do it automatically and he has made commitments.
Mursi: If the Iranians get involved in solving the issue in Syria, they will win and become closer to Turkey and the Gulf.
memo #2 (3/11, Davutoglu and Qatar PM), the PM represents that Clinton was very active in mustering support for a no-fly zone -- and all that entailed:
Davutoğlu: The situation in the region is moving fast. We should be coordinating.
Hamad: We are trying to push the [UN] Security Council to do something.
Davutoğlu: Gaddafi must leave and he will leave. Now he is winning the battle and we are worried. We tried to pressure him to leave Syria, but he began recruiting mercenaries from Sudan and Egypt. The West has different positions. France is of one opinion, but Europe has another, also the Americans.
Hamad: The US secretary of state called me three times and might call back today. We asked the Arab League to issue a decision for a no-fly zone over Libya. Syria is against and Yemen is not decided.
Davutoğlu: Why does Syria oppose?
Hamad: I don’t know.
Davutoğlu: I was surprised when the Syrians said they did not receive a message from you [concerning Lebanon].
Hamad: This is not true. We sent three copies.
Davutoğlu: I told the Syrians, why do you ask us to travel to Lebanon, while you had already made up your minds.
Hamad: I think they will lose if they continue to lie to their friends. What is happening now in Libya cannot be accepted. The Security Council must be pressured to impose a no-fly zone.
memo #3 (10/11, Davutoglu and Qatar Crown Prince), raises a few interesting points, whether Turkey worked closely with Syria in 2006 when the Bush administration was strongly targeting it for regime change, whether Hamas was being used early on by the MB in Syria against Assad rather than maintaining the neutrality Palestinians had committed to, whether Turkey really wants NATO's Patriots on its border and whether Al Jazeera was pressured not only about reporting negatively about Syria, but also about representing the other actors more favorably (also about whether Turkey, a democracy, is more willing for Bashar to negotiate and finish out his term in 2014 than Qatar is):
His Highness the Crown Prince: We will be sending a message to Bashar. He had said that he was going to talk to opposition. I believe that we have to send him a message that if he doesn’t continue down that road, the matter will take its course all the way to the Security Council.
His Excellency the Minister of Foreign Affairs: The killing must stop and the army must be pulled out of the cities, in addition to amending Article 8 and conducting elections after negotiating with the opposition.
His Highness the Crown Prince: He is not taking the matter seriously; he wants to destroy the whole region. Iran has changed its tone. I spoke to Burhan Ghalioun and he values Turkey’s role. I told him that our relations with Turkey are good and whatever Turkey decides, we are with them. We will let you know what happens.
The Guest: Coordination between us is important. Bashar is relying on two things and he has a lot of problems. He thinks that Russia and China are with him, and he thinks he can play the Russian and Chinese card with the West.
We are a member of NATO and we do not want foreign intervention. As Muslims, Arabs and Turks, we do not want Western intervention in Syria. We helped him break his isolation in 2006, when he was isolated by the West. We offered him a 14-point plan and we discussed everything with him. We know him and his regime very well. Our ambassador in Syria was with me, and Bouthaina Shaaban was present. He agreed to pull the army out of Hama, Homs, Daraa, and the rest of the cities, issue a new media law, allow the foreign press to enter the country, amend Article 8 of the constitution, hold elections, [...] and sit down with the opposition – he agreed to all this.
And after two days he attacked the mosques, launched an offensive on Latakia, killing people [...] Our plan was to back him if he implemented the plan. He pulled out of Hama as our ambassador watched on, only to return and attack it. Our ambassador notified us in a secret letter that they are in the process of destroying Hama. He was deceiving us.
When he attacked Latakia, I called him and asked him how is it that you are destroying the mosques, we will not remain quiet over it. I told him that the president must make his speech according to the agreement. But Muallem asked us to wait. I told him that his integrity was at risk. Muallem called me and told me that the president will give a speech in a week. And I said no and we clarified our position. We have not had contact with them since last August 14.
In Libya the situation was different. There, the Arab League gave Western intervention legitimacy. We in Turkey do not want Western or NATO intervention, despite the fact that we are a member of NATO. Foreign intervention in Syria will cause problems in Lebanon and Iran, and Hamas is able to act individually against him – we support the opposition and he is afraid of it. In 2006, we held joint military exercises and we supported him economically, but now he has to be isolated economically and he is bankrupt. We spoke to Iran and they told us to give him a few months time. We told them: try if you can. Salehi is a good man.
His Highness the Crown Prince: We should use that.
The Guest: We want to send a message to the Russians and the Chinese, and the Arabs must talk to the two countries to confirm to them that we do not want another Libya situation and we must convince them not to support Bashar – he cannot be given the opportunity to rule until 2014, so that he can get rid of the opposition.
His Highness the Crown Prince: He must stop the violence today before tomorrow. You have done all you can but there has to be Arab support and this has to be the Arab message to him.
The Guest: Yes, this is the right message and he cannot be given any more time. We must act now. What is the position of Algeria, are they against the revolution?
His Highness the Crown Prince: It will change its position and they will back the revolution.
The Guest: We are a member of NATO and we do not want foreign intervention. As Muslims, Arabs and Turks, we do not want Western intervention in Syria. What is the decision that will be taken if the Syrian president does not abide by the Arab initiative?
His Highness the Crown Prince: I cannot say now.
The Guest: It is easy to win the war on the ground, but the rebuilding will be difficult, so will the situation in Syria.
His Highness the Crown Prince: The Turkish vice defense minister is here.
The Guest: I will be visiting Jordan and will meet with the King tomorrow. Is Khaled Meshal in Damascus? Can he come to Doha? If such a step is sensitive for him, there is no need. There is a matter I wanted to speak to your highness about. Al-Jazeera is directing criticism against our position and this is not good.
His Highness the Crown Prince: Our relation with you is bigger than al-Jazeera and you can speak to Hamad bin Jassem, and we will talk to him about the issue.
Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Jan 24, 2013 9:20:50 PM | 35
@somebody 21 there would be enough if the '67 borders where accepted and i think hamas and fatah would accept that.but the isrealis never would and even if the Isreali government did agree the settler never would so the IDF would be fighting the settlers.
a one atate solutions is impossible as you can't have a Jewish state with different cultures treated equally.
And so you get the drift to the right wingers. But of course, everyone knows this already.
Posted by: heath | Jan 24, 2013 9:55:47 PM | 36
heath, "there would be enough if the '67 borders where accepted"
no, not with the right of return and not two potentially/factually hostile states and not with the Israeli conception of an immigration country for Jews only ...
something has got to give
Posted by: somebody | Jan 25, 2013 1:07:56 AM | 37
@somebody 36 i can't see any hope either now, it will be problematic if the Selafists in Syria turn toward Jordan.
Posted by: heath | Jan 25, 2013 8:07:56 AM | 39
Lambent1, not sure what book you have in mind, but maybe The Bible Unearthed by Israel Finklestein and Neil Asher Silberman.
According to Finklestein, a director of an archaeological institute at Tel Aviv University, no country has been more diligent than Israel in searching for evidence of truth in bible stories, and no doubt the authors would have been overjoyed to find something, anything, to indicate the ancient stories were more than primitive fiction.
No country has been more thoroughly examined by archaeologists than Israel either, and for those wanting to believe there's history in the bible, the findings have been disappointing. Never any of the magnificent cities or temples, never any Egyptian captivity. Not even a people with a language of their own -- what we call "Hebrew" was likely known as "Canaanite" 2,500 years ago.
Posted by: Ken Nari | Jan 25, 2013 9:15:22 AM | 40
jumping down from Ben 16--I don't think a two state solution is viable or good. I support a one state solution, I don't care what the country is named, but we need one person, one vote, equal land, human and civil rights for all in that land. If Israel would adopt one nation, one vote, they might get their state far quicker than they ever dreamed. Many Palestinians would likely be willing to sell their land/homes, and move elsewhere. If "Jews" are so rich, and eager to move to Israel, one would presume they'd pay top, top dollar.
Zionists should be supporting a one state solution, and encouraging more trusted images of Arabs. They should be trying to get them to immigrate to the US or the West--leaving the land for them. Just pay them first, let them decide to cede that land over. It's frankly quite baffling such an intelligent "people" would catch on to this and there'd at least be a movement for this.
Posted by: scottindallas | Jan 25, 2013 9:25:50 AM | 41
Re: 32--there's a lot of Rosens out there. I can't tell you which, but I remember one being better. Jay, James, Neil, Steve, Steven...
Posted by: scottindallas | Jan 25, 2013 9:43:15 AM | 42
38, more likely it was Aramaic.
Posted by: scottindallas | Jan 25, 2013 9:48:02 AM | 43
2) b: I wrote a long comment yesterday about the Qatar leaks. Was there a glitch of some sort that prevented its posting?
Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Jan 25, 2013 11:50:07 AM | 44
Thank you, Ken Nari @46!
This information would gore a number of peoples' oxen - do you think this is why the knowledge isn't more widespread?
Thank you very much!
Posted by: lambent1 | Jan 25, 2013 1:32:30 PM | 45
nrs. 20, 39
See also: "The invention of the Jewish people" by Shlomo Sand.
“Countering official Zionist historiography, Sand questions whether the Jewish People ever existed as a national group with a common origin in the Land of Israel/Palestine. He concludes that the Jews should be seen as a religious community comprising a mishmash of individuals and groups that had converted to the ancient monotheistic religion but do not have any historical right to establish an independent Jewish state in the Holy Land. In short, the Jewish People, according to Sand, are not really a “people” in the sense of having a common ethnic origin and national heritage. They certainly do not have a political claim over the territory that today constitutes Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, including Jerusalem.”
Posted by: absinthe | Jan 25, 2013 1:53:36 PM | 46
Targeting Younas Abdullah Muhammad
"American disparagement of Muslims is longstanding. In his book "Reel Bad Arabs: How Hollywood Vilifies a People," Jack Shaheen said they've been denigrated throughout decades of cinematic history.
From silent films to recent ones, they advance prejudicial attitudes. They reinforce malicious stereotypes. They foster notions of Western values, high-mindedness, and moral superiority.
Post-9/11, the gloves came off. Fear-mongering replaced reason. It's used for political advantage. Muslims are maliciously targeted. They're characterized as gun-toting terrorists.
Rule of law principles don't matter. Innocent victims are persecuted for their faith, ethnicity, prominence, activism, and charity. Guilt by accusation is policy.
Some of America's best and brightest are targeted, hunted down, rounded up, falsely charged, detained, isolated, denied bail, tortured, restricted in their right to counsel, tried on secret evidence, convicted on bogus charges, and given long sentences for being Muslims in America at the wrong time.
They languish in America's gulag. It's the world's largest by far. It operates globally. It's a prison industrial complex. It spurns equity and justice."
Without Hollywood's/the media's contribution, that extreme degree of prejudice, bigotry and persecution would not have been possible.
Posted by: вот так | Jan 25, 2013 3:45:35 PM | 47
Don't worry about it. "Israel" is finished. It has become a victim of its own success at information-management.
The "Israelis" appear to believe that 65+ years of overt and covert suppression of PUBLIC criticism of "Israel's" policies is helping to reduce the extent of global anti-"Israel" sentiment. But nothing could be farther from the truth. All it has done is drive the criticism underground. I'm surprised that so many people in Oz are deliberately boycotting everything "Israeli" BECAUSE it's not Kosher to express a negative opinion about the Kookie Little Paradise.
It has become very obvious that the only people who praise and/or defend "Israel" in OZ are politicians with Swiss bank accounts. And I suspect it's the same in the rest of the world.
Suppression of popular ideas is a tried-and-tested formula for political suicide. And the KLP believes too much of its own bullshit to stop before it's too late - which it already is.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 25, 2013 8:31:46 PM | 48
*Some people will do anything for money. And we mean freaking anything.
We're telling you right now, this is not for those with weak stomachs or a generally positive view of humanity. Because sometimes when there's a paycheck on the line, people will do things that would make Eli Roth puke.
Marcus Licinius Crassus was a Roman general and politician who commanded his legions around 70 BC. He's credited with creating the first fire brigade, though he probably wasn't thought of as highly of as FDNY since his primary motivation for putting out fires was to extort money from the property owners
Not only would Crassus buy the house that was burning down, he'd buy the neighbouring houses that were at risk of catching fire. He'd then set the slaves to work putting out the blaze and rebuild any damaged houses, to be sold later at an enormous profit.
Later Crassus went off to war in Parthia (modern day Iran). His soldiers demanded he parley with the Parthians who had offered to meet him. At the meeting Crassus was seized, tortured and had molten silver poured down his throat to sate his thirst for wealth.
And that, Mr. Obama,...............
at this point, i was thinking that the murikans , at least this guy, recognise that uncle scam is just a glorified arsonists, i thought he would say something like, *mr obama, when r u gonna change ur way n do an honest day's work like everybody else ?*
but my delusion was soon shattered by his next utterance
*And that, Mr. Obama, is why you don't negotiate with Iran*
crassus is surely a very good caricature for uncle scam, but the irony is lost on the fukusans, he had the perfect metaphor, but managed to draw the wrong conclusion !
Posted by: denk | Jan 26, 2013 10:41:59 PM | 50
no, 50, denk, it is the perfect way to end this story. Good writing lets the reader think themselves. Because, obviously, Obama fearing Crassus fate must be because he is like Crassus, no?
Posted by: somebody | Jan 27, 2013 2:11:23 AM | 51
uncle scam is more pro-active, he started the fire himself !
Posted by: denk | Jan 27, 2013 2:20:56 AM | 52
Some links to the past.
I’m not a Holocaust denier, but do think the concentration camp universe of Germany WW2 could do with a thorough re-write in the form of a serious yet accessible book. I’m not a historian or even an amateur WW2 buff.
This documentary (Mystères d’Archives), available for 6 more days, in F or G , from ARTE, treats the theme of ‘the power of images’ and shows footage that I never saw before. Careful watching is informative.
BadFellas is a documentary about the origins and rise of organized crime in Ireland. In Eng.
BAD FELLAS looks at how paramilitary violence led to organised crime gangs, armed robberies led to drug trafficking, and Irish gangs became some of the most sophisticated in the world.
I found it somewhat relevant to understanding current events in e.g. Syria, Mali. And God loves the Irish, their accents, and the street scenes.
Posted by: Noirette | Jan 27, 2013 8:53:12 AM | 53
In reference to 5. & the Stein LA Times article linked in the comments. It looks like Hollywood and New York have taken over Sundance:
Pussy Riot ‘Punk Prayer’ praised by Sundance jury
“We often talk about how this possibly could be one of the most controversial and the most resonant pieces of performance art in history."
"The most controversial and the most resonant pieces of performance art in history" in its original full directors cut, widescreen presentation in glorious Technicolor™:
How could anyone ever top that example of performance art? Well....
Another example of the sort of thing the "judges" at Sundance consider to be performance art. Although, to be completely fair to these tools, and elevate that Westboro Baptist Church "performance" to an equal artistic standing with Pussy Riot's, the Church should hire several of "the Guidos" from Jersey Shore to enter the synagogue, pretend they are musicians and make a lot of noise saying things insulting to those attending the synagogue. And have a klutzy member of the church film it using a cheap video camera.
Posted by: вот так | Jan 27, 2013 1:59:59 PM | 54
@ Noirette [#53],
R: Can't be watched in Japan [copyrights], but thanks for providing links anyway. Have you ever delved into the 'KaPo' phenomenon? That's another part of history 'we' are supposed to 'never mention' and 'forcefully forget.' When history casts no shadows, our tomorrows will be devoid of light.
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Jan 27, 2013 4:20:20 PM | 55
Noirette@53, I can't access the ARTE video in Canada. Is it about the allies treatment of the German etc civilians and refugees and former homeowners after the war, as described in Orderly and Humane? e.g. being put in sealed freight cars and abandoned? I'm interested because my dear gentle grandfather sailed from Silesia alone in the late 1800s, age 14, because his mother wanted to emigrate and save her four boys from being put in the Kaiser's army. He was the oldest and she thought he was too old to be safe from that, so sent him on ahead. When he got to the dock in Baltimore he sat on his trunk and cried. For years I have wondered about my unknown relatives there.
Posted by: lambent1 | Jan 28, 2013 7:45:11 AM | 56
56) you can try the youtube version
you will appreciate the wisdom of your great grandmother.
But frankly, Noirette, why do you think this is showing anything new? All this has been well documented and there used to be a generation of French people who had experienced the forced labor / concentration camp system. They would talk about it when you were prepared to listen.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 28, 2013 9:08:36 AM | 57
57) to clarify, what the French documentation is showing are the "political prisoner/labor camps" Buchenwald and Dachau which were freed by the US. The documentation does not show the Auschwitz extermination camp which was freed by the Soviets.
The original films were produced for shock consumption in the US and - probably - to be used in German denazification.
There presumably is some Auschwitz Soviet documentation, Soviet people however had experienced most of the horrors and atrocities of war themselves, so the Soviet army would not have been so keen to film it in detail.
Posted by: somebody | Jan 28, 2013 9:42:47 AM | 58
moa veterans may be interested in contributing to raise some $$$ for finishing the documentary on r'giap, 'these heathen dreams', that has been in production for a few yrs now. here's the website w/ the details & a trailer - the filmmaker has told me the deadline was extended to feb 09
Posted by: b real | Jan 29, 2013 4:23:47 PM | 59
here's a little something dropped into my mail box
from 2008, supposedly classified(is there a way to check?) It's an army training manual for Unconventional Warfare. It's a dense 245 pages in dry, bullet-pointed, manual-lese. I haven't read it all, but what I did sounds perfectly reasonable provided one assumes that US Military superiority world-wide is an indisputable, natural Good. If it doesn't chill you you're already froze.
Posted by: ruralito | Jan 29, 2013 5:16:57 PM | 60
a self-evident truth! lol
Posted by: ruralito | Jan 29, 2013 5:22:10 PM | 61
*@ Chinese posters
What you all need to get into your head is that the USA is the leader of the free world where democracy, capitalism and a high quality of life reign supreme. The average american consumers roughly 15 times the average Chinese does, it is not even a real comparison to be made between the two countries at all. We have a near monopoly on supercomputing tech, top-ranked universities, 25% of the worlds largest companies are US based, multiple times larger than China, top nobel laureate count, largest most advanced military by far, on its way to becoming a total energy superpower, surpassing russia and saudi arabia, I can easily go on but I'm sure you guys get the point by now.
Why is this article even bothering with mentioning the Chinese military? Is this some sort of joke article? China is a total chump compared to the USA, a small time thug wannabe gangster. It would be like comparing al capone to your local pot dealer, China's economy may be large and getting larger year by year but that's only one aspect of what makes a nation powerful and influential. It's a one trick pony, all it has up its sleeve is the GDP card whereas the USA has the GDP card, the military card, the political/diplomatic card, the technology card, and now the energy superpower card; its actually adding cards to its stockpile whereas China can seemingly only rely on GDP.
The USA in my opinion is the true reincarnation of the Legendary Roman Empire and will be looked back on 1000 years from now as one of histories greatest empires of all time. The USA is a mere 230ish years old and is already the most influential nation history has known adding more technological feats than any other nation in history. In China's so called 5000 years what has it really accomplished? It is an anti-social nation that isolates itself off from others and doesn't share anything, it got utterly humiliated by a tiny island nation – Britain only 150 years ago because it was so weak and anti-social, then it got totally steam-rolled by another tiny island nation japan a mere 80 years ago and lets not forget its centuries of being colonized by another tiny population – the mongols.
In short, history is dominated by strong, confident nations that go out and spread their ideas and culture across the globe. Anti-social isolated nations like China are meant to be exploited by the strong, confident nations. This is not being arrogant or racist, it is just a fact of nature; survival of the fittest.*
this clown actually is proud to compare uncle sham to al capone [sic] , with *patriots* like this........
this is my comment [still *under moderation* :-( ]
*China is a total chump compared to the USA, a small time thug wannabe gangster. It would be like comparing al capone to your local pot dealer,*
+al capone ?....u aint seen nuth yet kid.
Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents +
*In short, history is dominated by strong, confident nations that go out and spread their ideas and culture across the globe. Anti-social isolated nations like China are meant to be exploited by the strong, confident nations. This is not being arrogant or racist, it is just a fact of nature; survival of the fittest.*
i concede u got a point there kid
ghengis khan would be pround of ya...
Posted by: denk | Feb 2, 2013 11:21:10 PM | 62
Illegal Hoax Drill School Shooting on 300 Students in East Harlem
: Open Letter to NYC School Principal Greer Phillips
"...Public School 79M / 55 EAST 120 STREET / MANHATTAN / NY / 10035
As you know, HoranWatch started its work following what you would describe as a drill. The 300 children and young adults you targeted don’t call it a drill. The other victims, their self sacrificing teachers, nurses, counselors, paraprofessionals and therapists also don’t call it a drill. Only the people who illegally planned it in secret call it a drill. The people who fell to the floor shaking, in prayer, or with their bodies in order to cover immobile students and friends don’t call it a drill. Nor do the teachers who pushed their bodies against doors as you sent your team to push back against them, like shooters would. Like a shooter did only only 2 school days prior. When those teachers called their partners, children, and friends to say good bye, they did not use the word drill. They used the words you designed as part of this intricate hoax then channeled through in the most dramatic way possible through every intercom in the building, “Shooter/Intruder in the building, oh my God!”. Then they were rendered immobile with contrary messages, “Get out, get out!” and “Lock down!”...."
First I've heard of this outrage. My first reaction was "what American or Israeli government agency was using these kids as guinea pigs"?
Posted by: вот так | Feb 3, 2013 1:07:18 AM | 63
Speaking of Guineans..
‘The Guineapigs’ by John McGuffin (1974, 1981)
The first edition by Penguin sold 20,000 copies and was banned after one week by the British government and Reginald Maudling. The 2nd edition in 1981 updated the fate of the victims and named the torturers, but omitted two chapters from the original edition.
A complete compilation of both editions is now here available for the first time. Feel free to download these pages, but if you decide to do so we would like to ask you to make a donation to Irish Resistance Books, in order that IRB can publish further works. (Note: We are not in receipt of any grants or Art Council funding.)
You may not edit, adapt, or redistribute changed versions of this for other than your personal use without the express written permission. Redistribution for commercial purposes is not permitted.
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Feb 3, 2013 3:08:27 AM | 64
One can understand how bad this dumbing down thing is getting when even the snobby British literary world is turning American in their habits...(he writes between sips of a cuppa Earl Grey.
Taras Shevchenko's portrait on UK edition of Dostoyevsky's novel
"A British firm has released an audio version of the famous Russian writer Fyodor Dostoyevsky’s novel “The Karamazov Brothers”.
But the portrait placed on the CD cover is not that of Dostoyevsky but of the Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko, which was painted by Ivan Kramskoy in 1871.
The book consists of 8 CDs and costs 240 pounds."
One doesn't even get the full work, but a Reader's Digest style abridged hatchet job.
(Uncle $cam - It's funny how coincidence works, I had not yet seen your comment till I came here to post this comment.)
Posted by: вот так | Feb 3, 2013 3:26:35 AM | 65
looks like *the diplomat* isnt going to post my comment :-(
American Patriot [sic]
*@ Chinese posters
What you all need to get into your head is that the USA is the leader of the free world where democracy, capitalism and a high quality of life reign supreme. The average american consumers roughly 15 times the average Chinese does, it is not even a real comparison to be made between the two countries at all. We have a near monopoly on supercomputing tech, top-ranked universities, 25% of the worlds largest companies are US based, multiple times larger than China, top nobel laureate count, largest most advanced military by far, on its way to becoming a total energy superpower, surpassing russia and saudi arabia, I can easily go on but I'm sure you guys get the point by now.*
i got ur point alright kid, but there's this question that keep nagging me, if murika is so swell....
why'd it has to resort to such low down scams to screw china ?
using underhand tactics to sabotage a competitor is vile enough.
yet very often, china isnt even competing with fukus
in africa for example, it often goes in where fukus fear to thread ,coz the risk was deemed too high or it have already abandoned the investment coz its considered not viable.
otoh, the chinese are willing to rough it out, operate on minimal profits and they'r prepared to take great risk.
*China moved into countries which had been virtually abandoned by former European colonial powers like France or Britain or Portugal
In mineral-rich countries that had been all but abandoned by foreign investors because of unrest and corruption, Chinese companies are filling the void*
yet when the chinese manage to survive the adverse condition , weather the spills n falls n even starting to prosper , thats when fukus start to see red. fukusans mindset seem to be *if we cant have it, neither do u*.
so the *chinese out, fukus in* scam start to kick in.
to think that fukusans like u have the cheek to call china a *thug*, at the same time tho, u'r proud that merika is a bigger thug, al capone. hehehehe
Posted by: denk | Feb 3, 2013 10:10:12 AM | 66
American Sniper author Chris Kyle shot dead in Texas
"His body was found at Rough Creek Lodge range on Saturday with that of another man. A suspect was arrested.
The gunman opened fire at about 15:30 local time (21:30 GMT) then fled in a pick-up truck belonging to one of the victims, local media reported.
Erath County Sheriff Tommy Bryant said the motive for the killings was unclear, and was unable to explain how the two men were shot.
But he said a 25-year-old suspect was detained five hours later more than 70 miles (110 km) from the scene."
From the description of how it happened in the article, and the photo of Kyle, I'm betting it was one of those love triangle things, the shooter being the one dumped, and Kyle, or the other guy, being the new beau.
Posted by: вот так | Feb 3, 2013 10:24:18 AM | 67
otoh, this comment from me was posted on *the diplomat* in that gordon [china'd collapse in 2011] chang article.
here's the catch.....the mod removed the two vital links on u.s. interventions, the [....] part.
so readers'd be forgiven if they dont know what im talkin about. !
r u kidding ?
during most of its history, china has been the victim of aggressions.
even if it was particularly *aggressive* during 200AD-1500AD As claimed, that was the era of warring states, to make war was the norm. !!
but this is the 21 century !
supposedly the era of civilisation , international law n human rights n all that jazz !
[how do u justify these naked aggressions ?
mind u, the author has included both the fabricated pretexts n the real reasons behind the aggressions .
is this ur idea of *world cop*, the guarantor of *peace*, *protector* of the weak ?
Posted by: denk | Feb 3, 2013 10:42:48 AM | 68
here's an update
as of now, looks like all my posts have been released by
der mod at *the diplomat*
Posted by: denk | Feb 4, 2013 10:48:17 AM | 71