October 30, 2012
There is, for some weeks, now a disruptive troll in the comments of this blog.
He has used the following names: ahem, Star69, unohu, Zio-Weiss?, SF, SufferingFools, hu bris, crazy_inventor. It is all the same person.
The guy is attacking regular longterm commentators and adds less than zero to the value of the discussions.
Attempts to block his IP address from commenting failed because the IP addresses he uses are changing every few comments and are jumping all over various quite diverse IP-address blocks. (I am interested to learn what tool is enabling this.)
To my regular commentators: Please do not, in any case or any form, respond to comments that you suspect to come from this troll. Do not feed him.
I have contacted the operators of the platform this blog is running on and they are looking into the problem.
If anyone has a good idea how we can get rid of that idiot please let me know.
Posted by b on October 30, 2012 at 03:11 PM | Permalink
b., it is not difficult to change the IP address range if you really want to
I think the guy is professional in some way or the other. Your blog comments spread information as well as disinformation and challenge "narratives", your outreach crosses quite a few countries. Some people are interested in that.
Take it as a compliment.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 30, 2012 3:34:52 PM | 1
The question really is, why wouldn't you be hiding your IP? Everyone should be in the habbit of using Tor (or similar). There are now full-time government employees whose job it is to troll comment sections so I agree with somebody. It means this is a blog worth reading.
Posted by: Frank | Oct 30, 2012 4:02:06 PM | 2
Could be using a number of things to change IP Address. Some internet companies have dynamic IP addresses that change every time you log on. Either that or more likely a proxy service like Tor or HideMyAss. If he is using a dynamic IP his location would still be the same (despite the different IP) you could try running the IP's through IPTrackeronline.com to find and publish his home address (bet he would like that).
If he is using proxy's it would be harder to pin him down, though I'm sure the operators of the platform could find a way. One way to get around the troll would be using the Capcha program that would require all comments to go into moderation. Could probably set comments from trusted user IP's, like the regulars here, to go through without moderation and just have new Users/IP's comments automatically sent for moderation approval. If all his comments went to "pending approval" before showing up he would probably lose interest.
Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Oct 30, 2012 4:22:01 PM | 4
Also agree with Somebody and Frank about it possibly being professional trolls. Israel set up an "army of bloggers" to go after Anti-Zionist and Anti-War websites.
The Immigrant Absorption Ministry announced on Sunday it was setting up an "army of bloggers," to be made up of Israelis who speak a second language, to represent Israel in "anti-Zionist blogs" in English, French, Spanish and German.
Or it could always be the work of a lone loser with nothing better to do than troll sites he doesn't like. I personally, don't see why you would visit a site you don't like and post loads of comments there everyday. Certainly a sign of a boring life.
Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Oct 30, 2012 4:39:24 PM | 5
I noticed this persona. He (almost certainly) is different from most disruptive trolls I have encountered in that he seems to be a real leftist, if somewhat of a fringy. Probably an antisemite. Obviously reads Mondioweiss and may even has or had a handle over there. Maybe he could traced using syntax analysis.
Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 30, 2012 4:45:15 PM | 6
The more flak your get, the closer you are to your intended target.
Of course the word 'flak' had to be of German origin: 1935–40; < German Fl ( ieger ) a ( bwehr ) k ( anone ) antiaircraft gun, equivalent to Flieger aircraft (literally, flyer) + Abwehr defense + Kanone gun, cannon. Personally I don't mind all chunks and sizes of a full-spectrum debate. Trolls, idiots and hasbara-stormtroopers included, but thanks for the heads-up anyway.
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Oct 30, 2012 4:47:36 PM | 7
@ Colm O'Tool,
Remember the good ol' days of Israel's flagship the 'megaphone?'
The less you are allowed to say, the less the value of a blog/web site/etc.
I can deal with trolls and bigots, but am allergic to censorship [in what ever form or shape].
The word 'anitsemite' has completely lost is meaning. By now, it merely means an individual is critical of the Israeli government and/or Israel's policies in general. It's overuse in attempts to stifle sincere and honest debates is therefore paying off handsomely.
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Oct 30, 2012 5:01:26 PM | 8
Instead of blocking trolls at the server, why not have a user-controlled filter, rather like a spam filter or ad blocker that can be trained to recognize not just user names but content. Something like this could be coded and packaged as a browser add-on, able to recognize the comment formats of various blogging packages. Readers could train their own filters, or subscribe to a filter trained by the consensus of long-term commenters on the blog that they're looking at. Does anyone here have expertise in packaging browser add-ons?
Posted by: pmr9 | Oct 30, 2012 5:20:02 PM | 9
Yes, is probably an Hasbarabot. Just don't mind, or counter-troll them with an equal and opposite trolling force.
Posted by: Tom | Oct 30, 2012 5:29:36 PM | 10
Firstly, as a reader of Moon of Alabama but only very recently a poster on the forum, I am glad & very relieved that B has posted this alert.
MoA has been an important source of information, critiques and alternative viewpoints, particularly in recent months on Syria. One doesn't need to agree with all of the opinions posted to recognise that in general this website performs very useful work in reporting key info and breaking thru the 'humanitarian' falsifications and justifications for imperialist killing.
Racist / ethnicly sectarian comments on this site detract from this good work, and play into the hands of the Zionists who falsely claim that being against Israel and / or pro-Palestinian is being anti-Jewish.
Who knows if such comments posted on this site, by a troll with a hydra of names including 'Zio-Weiss' (and I suspect also 'Ed Miliband') could be part of a Hasbara operation?
Posted by: Noah | Oct 30, 2012 6:15:15 PM | 11
This is a problem close to my heart and wanting a solution. So much time wasted with these trolls when there is so much value here when their not disrupting conversations. I agree with somebody and Frank that it is a sign of high value that it happens here so much. But that's not really consolation.
It is interesting to me, b, how you know
He has used the following names: [NAMES]. It is all the same person.
[NAMES] are all the same person since each has a different IP address. I detected a strong similarity between the “style” of SF and hu bris but none of the others, probably because I didn’t read much of the others posts. I was tempted to make a comment to SF of how similar his posts were to hu bris’ but when he didn’t reply to my last post to him on OT 2012-26 I dropped it. It was a totally intuitive sense I had about them being the same poster. I have done a quick search on Authorship Attribution but found nothing that wouldn’t take less than a semester course and a lot of practical experience in able to become proficient. And even then it’s not a science but more of an art. Perhaps some of our regulars have some knowledge of some software that could aid in Authorship Attribution? I don’t think Tor or Hide My Ass specifically address this issue.
don't see why you would visit a site you don't like and post loads of comments there everyday. Certainly a sign of a boring life.
I feel the same and I questioned both Slothrop and especially hu bris on the amount of time and effort they spent disrupting this blog. I think you are right in your first sentence that, at least for hu bris, that he is a professional troll with a specific agenda.
Posted by: juannie | Oct 30, 2012 7:03:04 PM | 12
@Daniel Rich #8
I can deal with trolls and bigots, but am allergic to censorship
well, b never censored slothrop, just for an example, but Hu bris is here with a mission (whether a pro or a maniac); no doubt we can counter-troll anyone, but then the blog would lose interest: mission accomplished
he also found unwitting allies (anti-semites and conspiracists abound everywhere), who seemed to display an attitude of the type "he's a troll, but it's our troll"; the whole blog could lose respectability if certain intruders aren't identified and blocked at once; and it's so easy to detect disruptive modus operandi
burdening b with the task of policing posts is anyways an accomplishment for him
Posted by: claudio | Oct 30, 2012 7:09:00 PM | 13
There should be HTTP header fields (like 'user agent' etc) that come up with his/her posts. Maybe you can ask your host to provide these for the various personas, and see if there is a pattern. The 'user agent' is usually used to advertise what browser the client is using, but there are programs to switch or bork this. Other fields are harder to bork. Your host may have request filtering set up already, or may be interested in doing this in the future.
Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | Oct 30, 2012 7:22:14 PM | 14
It is interesting to me, b, how you know [...] [NAMES] are all the same person
interesting topic in general, but in Hu bris' case it wasn't difficult at all, because he (sometimes, not always on purpose) dropped hints (code-words, hints at previous posts) that would identify him
plus, his new identities often debuted after a post by 'somebody' and took on him
too many posts of his have been deleted by now by b to make an analysis possible, but he'll probably give us other chances; he often debuts quietly and constructively, and thinks he masters a variety of styles, but really he is quite transparent
Posted by: claudio | Oct 30, 2012 7:26:27 PM | 15
I am a fairly recent reader of MoA. I am impressed by the information in this site. Maybe, one day, I will be able to contribute substantively on a given issue.
Re: the troll.
Start by just flagging his (hers?) posts by overwriting the text with an MoA message. I hope that a longer term solution can be found, where the task can be automated.
Are the troll's comments found elsewhere in the net?
Posted by: JaimeInTexaz | Oct 30, 2012 9:06:41 PM | 16
I assume from b's (umpteenth) reminder not to feed the troll that he is trying to avoid taking immediate radical action - such as putting all comments on moderation.
For what it's worth, I get the impression that since mid-2012, and probably earlier, full-time, dedicated, professional trolling has become an inevitable part of blogging. It first became patently obvious, to me, in the hundreds of comments attracted by 2 Guardian articles about Syria in July...
"The Syrian opposition: who's doing the talking?"
and the 'mainstream' response...
"US manipulation of news from Syria is a red herring"
My suggestion would be to do nothing obvious for the time being and to delete any troll-feeding comments while investigating the options for a practical automated blocking solution, if such a thing is possible.
Several months ago Race for Iran opened a couple of threads concerning an individual troll they were intending to suffocate. They didn't go into any technical specifics about their vexatious visitor but appear to have settled on permanent moderation, which is obviously time consuming and far from ideal.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 30, 2012 9:26:44 PM | 17
Hu-Bris is Im sure someone that did post at Mondoweiss.
Posted by: demize! | Oct 30, 2012 10:02:10 PM | 18
Q: I can deal with trolls and bigots, but am allergic to censorship.
R: I was not referring to this site. My apologies if it came across that way. I meant places like HufPo and Mondoweiss, etc.
Posted by: Daniel Rich | Oct 30, 2012 10:11:46 PM | 19
@ToivoS said": I noticed this persona. He (almost certainly) is different from most disruptive trolls I have encountered in that he seems to be a real leftist, if somewhat of a fringy. Probably an antisemite. Obviously reads Mondioweiss and may even has or had a handle over there. Maybe he could traced using syntax analysis." You are such a ridiculous asshole it baffles me. I think you may be a troll, Im snitch jacketing you right now. No one can be so hopelessly obtuse and unself-aware without having an agenda. Your single mission in life seems to be ferreting "antisemitism" aka saying bad stuff bout Joos while said are actuallyu committing pogroms as we speak and are the single most powerful elite block in domestic affairs. Plus a dude who runs a blog is not going to do "syntax analysis" to catch a troll. What are you friggen Sherlock Holmes? Just because you sniff around wearing a deerstalker and carry a magnifying glass looking for "antisemitism" doesnt mean everyone is as neurotic and narcissistict as you. Now I will add, which I am loathe to do because it shouldnt matter< that I am a "Jew" myself and think all this hyper sensitivity is rediculous as well as a false paradigm. To those who arent aware he is one of the main persecutors of a woman who founded Free Gaza .org and put her life on the line as a Gaza siege runner for being a guess what? an "antisemite" because she linked to a Eustace Mullins video on the Federal Reserve. Thats right this arm chair Torquemada was and is busy purging actual Gaza Seige Runners because they linked unapproved information.
Posted by: demize! | Oct 30, 2012 10:14:53 PM | 20
PS. I apologize I saw the name Hu-Bris and knew it was familiar and thought I remembered it from Mondoweiss but it was actually right here where I actually remember seeing it. Second comment still stands.
Posted by: demize! | Oct 30, 2012 10:19:35 PM | 21
"If anyone has a good idea how we can get rid of that idiot please let me know"
Hmmmm. Well, can you give a blogsite an enema???
Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Oct 30, 2012 10:38:43 PM | 22
Daniel Rich I must disagree with you. Antisemitism has not totally lost its meaning. There is without doubt that the Zionist are using that term to attack those of us who criticize Israel. I have received that accusation numerous times, even in my real name. That is their tactic, to define antisemitism as criticism of Israel. This is what the Zionist desire. They need antisemitism to justify current Israeli policies of more land theft. It is good for them. A reason to convince more Jews to immigrate to Israel. However, I will not let them define antisemitism. There does exist a good old fashioned meaning to that word and many who subscribe to it will join the struggle for Palestinian justice to promote their own hate of Jews in general.
Demize your own vitriol is just too extreme to respond to. You aren't Zio-Weiss by any chance?
Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 30, 2012 10:58:58 PM | 23
well, if you did give this blog an enema you'd end up having to wash out practically ALL of the whining babies commenting on this thread
The best thing about this website is not b himself but some of the commenters - and none of the smart commenters are to be found whining about trolls, in this thread -
(except #20 & 21 - him I like - he totally nailed that ToivoS twat that sees ANti-Semites under his bed every night)
FFS - Mossad-hasbara conspiracy theories- what are ye like?
You bunch of gormless fucktards couldn't spot a proper conspiracy theory if it ran up and bit ye on the arse
Oh and b, "Attempts to block his IP address from commenting failed because the IP addresses he uses are changing every few comments and are jumping all over various quite diverse IP-address blocks. (I am interested to learn what tool is enabling this.)"
obviously not THAT much of an idiot then, eh?
Posted by: Tyrol | Oct 30, 2012 11:01:58 PM | 24
@ 23 - the Anti-semites-under-the-bed idiot
"You aren't Zio-Weiss by any chance?"
not he's not, you gobshite
fuckwits like you and the pathetic mingebags at MW need AS to validate your own existence as AZ's. Pathetic wankers that you are, you just use the Palestinians and their cause. but in reality you're more concerned with fighting over who or what is an anti-Semite than you are with actually helping Palestinians.
You're all Hiding behind a jewish guy (Weiss) because you're too afraid to stand up and say anything controversial, so you all cower behind the Tribalist Weiss, using him as a shield to ward off the evhulll Zios.
Posted by: Tyrol | Oct 30, 2012 11:11:53 PM | 25
"That is their tactic, to define antisemitism as criticism of Israel. This is what the Zionist desire."
and idiots like you use it to silence any criticism of Jewish group-identity, as if, unlike every other group-identity in existence, it's some sacred-cow immune from any and all criticism.
you're really no different than the Zios
Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 30, 2012 11:27:42 PM | 26
Since a number of comments use the term anti-Semitic I would like to point out that this term is in itself a bit problem. The correct term to use is anti-Jewish. Because, the great majority of Jews are NOT Semitic and by far the biggest religious group among Semitic people are the Muslims, usually being accused of being anti-Semitic. The real problem is calling Arabs (who themselves are Semitic) as being anti-Semitic. I would grant that at this point in history most arabs are probably anti-Jewish but they are NOT anti-Semitic because they are themselves Semitic.
Is it too much to hope for people to lose the 'anti-Semitic' nonsense label for something that should be called anti-Jewish?
Posted by: Khalid Shah | Oct 31, 2012 12:03:27 AM | 27
"Is it too much to hope for people to lose the 'anti-Semitic' nonsense label for something that should be called anti-Jewish?"
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 31, 2012 12:15:19 AM | 28
'SF' - the climate denial troll struck me as a professional.
Just too many posts in a row, & the attacks on other posters credibility & points raised was mostly pretty cleverly done - either by superficially plausible counter-arguements that quoted a lot of 'sources' from all over the place that took people a lot of work to find out how dubious or out-of-context most of them were, or else just being 'superiorly' dismissive when 'he/she/it/' wanted to avoid something.
For that amount of time & effort, as well as the array of techniques used it's got to be someone paid, likely by one of these grey-market influence agencies which are getting very popular in the corporate world these days - the truly obsessive tend to be much more one-track than this 'he/she/many?'
Posted by: KenM | Oct 31, 2012 1:21:07 AM | 29
Khalid you are quite correct about the meaning of Semitic. The term "anti-Semitic" is a term that was defined by its use in the West and its meaning from the very beginning was unrelated to the Semitic people of the Mediterranean world. It came out of Germany and it applied to European Jews and more specifically to the Jews of Eastern Europe. I am aware that these people are not Semitic in the way you use it. However, it is a term that has meaning in the West quite independently from what we understand as the Semitic people of the Mideast. Etymology is an understanding of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history. In that sense "anti-Semitism" has assumed meaning divorced from what you think it should mean.
I would be happy to see this usage abandoned, but right now it is in current use, especially in the US. It is a term that is politically charged and I refuse to let the Zionist define its meaning as opposition to the policies of the Israel state. Therefore, I will try to deny them that opportunity and to keep the meaning that the 19th and 20th century anti-Semites had in mind when they tried to exterminate the Jews of Europe.
Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 31, 2012 1:37:44 AM | 30
The ANC Solidarity Conference last weekend here in Pretoria gave an example how to handle things. There is a lively debate between a strong BDS campaign and mainly jewish pro-Israeli groups and organisations without falling into the anti-semitism trap.
Ronnie Kasrils, a former ANC minister who now devotes his time to the Russell Tribunal on Palestine, said in a recent interview with Al Jazeera:
“…what is taking place in Palestine reminds us, South African freedom fighters, of what we suffered from. We are the beneficiaries of international solidarity and need to make a similar payback to others still struggling for liberation. Palestine is an example of a people who were dispossessed of land and birthright just like the indigenous people of South Africa.
As a Jew, I abhor the fact that the Zionist rulers of Israel/Palestine claim they are acting in the name of Jews everywhere. I am one of many Jews internationally, and in Israel itself, who declare ‘Not in my name.’”
Pls revisit UN General Assembly Resolution 3379, which equated Zionism with racism, you should note the observation that:
“…the racist regime in occupied Palestine and the racist regime in Zimbabwe and South Africa have a common imperialist origin, forming a whole and having the same racist structure and being organically linked in their policy aimed at repression of the dignity and integrity of the human being.”
Posted by: thomas | Oct 31, 2012 1:43:54 AM | 31
If anyone has a good idea how we can get rid of that idiot please let me know./BLOCKQUOTE>
I know it's easier said than done but everyone should try to ignore disruptive comments.If we stick to that plan the troll will eventually lose interest.
Posted by: Calig | Oct 31, 2012 1:47:58 AM | 32
ToivoS You wont respond to my "extreme vitriol" because you have no response just alot of high falluting bluster. We call people like you punks were I come from. You know what that word means? Look it up. The reason Im being "vitriolic" is because vitriol IS APPROPRIATE. You smug little worm, you remain calm while you issue forth your cowardly dictates that a woman who breaks seiges, You do know 9 people were muredered aboard The Mavi Marmara,should be and I qoute "purged". Anyone who is talking about antisemitism while Israel tortures children,imprisons an entire nation, bumblefucks my country into stupefication, ethnically cleanses Jerusalem,kills with abandon and impunity, has a core of Kahanist judeo-NAZI fuckbags harassing peasant farmers on a regular basis as well as desecrating Moslem and Christian holy places, kills my fellow sailors and generally make belligerent assholes of themselves on a world wide scale, is a narcissist or a professional. Because Bubbelah who the fuck do think Israelis are Lutherans? No they are a Jewish ethno Nationalist state. And without the funds and support of mainstream Jews around the world that shithole collapses in a month.
Posted by: demize! | Oct 31, 2012 2:11:21 AM | 33
"As a Jew, I abhor the fact that the Zionist rulers of Israel/Palestine claim they are acting in the name of Jews everywhere. I am one of many Jews internationally, and in Israel itself, who declare ‘Not in my name.’” see right there he is reinforcing the special preciousness of his tribal affiliation. As a Jew,As a Jew what other group does this? How about as a person I abhor the depraved nature of this anachronism of a confessional state. As a Jew I detest @ToivoS because he is neurotic twat.
Posted by: demize! | Oct 31, 2012 2:19:29 AM | 34
Definitively this thread is trolled and most of it by automated software :-))
KenM, that climate change troll first tried to plant the information linking to a Daily Mail article with a deceitful headline contradicting the content that was in essence correct but did its utmost to give a wrong impression, and he continued to play on that, so yes he was a human with an agenda.
Trolls may also be volunteers and ideology, religious driven. For a very long time now I did not have Yehova's witnesses at my doorstep (they used to be a regular occurrence). I assume they and others use the internet now.
They also might be humans with no agenda just renting their services - to economic or political brands.
How about fighting back at the Hasbara trolls by an empathy test?
Making them agree to positions they usually would not take (use Darwinism on the religious nuts :-))
There is also teacher software on the market checking the quality of arguments - which is presumably not a practical solution for the comments section of a blog.
No seriously b. you should not do anything except delete plain offensive posts for the sake of your own reputation. You could presumably get software catching swearwords - some of the above posts would have got filtered out by that.
People here just have to take the pain to filter out the stuff themselves. This blog is costing b.'s time as it is.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 31, 2012 2:58:36 AM | 35
Er Demize!!. You seem to be implying I made that statement. Not at all. Not only am I not a Jew, but by birth (both sides of my family going back at least 3 generations that include two ministers) I am a Lutheran. Your vitriol is irrational.
Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 31, 2012 2:59:23 AM | 36
on a practical not, your captcha b. is not worth anything it is easily machine readable.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 31, 2012 3:10:31 AM | 37
Well b you have certainly stirred your troll into action with this posting. He has reappeared as Zio Weiss? (formerly !), Tyrol and (is it you demize!). One nasty cat to be sure. And then a hapless thomas shows up with an irrelevant post raising all sorts of suspicions as to his provenance. b if you are fishing then you have certainly caused a few nibbles and bites here, hope you can hook one. Demize has recently been purged from the MW site (good riddance for sure). I am a fan of Tony Hillerman's novels -- mysteries if you don't know -- and this brings to mind the "Shape Shifters". Good luck in your sleuthing.
Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 31, 2012 3:46:22 AM | 38
Let's add above ToivoS :-))
Posted by: somebody | Oct 31, 2012 3:51:12 AM | 39
if you think Israel shows "there's a problem with Jews", then you are racist, an antisemite in particular;
antisemitism exists, it is a form of European/Western identity politics; in its modern form (XIX century) it is ethnically defined (derived from that Arian-Semite BS) and has little to do with older Christian anti-Judaism
Zionism is European Jewish identity politics born as a mimicry of, and a reaction to European identity politics, where Jews (a little minority, until after WWII) accepted the European racial definitions; Israel shows there is a problem with Europeans/Westerners, not with Jews
worldwide Jewish support of Israel is totally analogous to, and is a component of worldwide Western support of Western racism and colonialism
Gilad Atzom is my favorite writer on these matters
Posted by: claudio | Oct 31, 2012 4:08:23 AM | 40
A week ago, even I took issue with ToivoS. He had told Zio-Weiss? that basically all religions were racist, and that it was anti-semitic to single out Judaism in particular. Now he says he only uses the word antisemitic to describe people who want to exterminate Jews. Quite a semantic range. Worse, he claims a passion for Palestinian justice, then immediately says we must go easy on it, lest we attract the "many" who hate Jews in general - thereby equating criticism of Israel with anti-semitism! It's hard not to consider him a troll.
Posted by: Bob Jackson | Oct 31, 2012 4:08:34 AM | 41
they are showing now what I can, above claudio is not "claudio" and I fully expect multiple somebodies here ...
This is the issue - from the Guardian
"The anonymity of the web gives companies and governments golden opportunities to run astroturf operations: fake grassroots campaigns that create the impression that large numbers of people are demanding or opposing particular policies. This deception is most likely to occur where the interests of companies or governments come into conflict with the interests of the public. For example, there's a long history of tobacco companies creating astroturf groups to fight attempts to regulate them.
After I wrote about online astroturfing in December, I was contacted by a whistleblower. He was part of a commercial team employed to infest internet forums and comment threads on behalf of corporate clients, promoting their causes and arguing with anyone who opposed them.
Like the other members of the team, he posed as a disinterested member of the public. Or, to be more accurate, as a crowd of disinterested members of the public: he used 70 personas, both to avoid detection and to create the impression there was widespread support for his pro-corporate arguments. I'll reveal more about what he told me when I've finished the investigation I'm working on.
It now seems that these operations are more widespread, more sophisticated and more automated than most of us had guessed. Emails obtained by political hackers from a US cyber-security firm called HBGary Federal suggest that a remarkable technological armoury is being deployed to drown out the voices of real people.
As the Daily Kos has reported, the emails show that:
• Companies now use "persona management software", which multiplies the efforts of each astroturfer, creating the impression that there's major support for what a corporation or government is trying to do.
• This software creates all the online furniture a real person would possess: a name, email accounts, web pages and social media. In other words, it automatically generates what look like authentic profiles, making it hard to tell the difference between a virtual robot and a real commentator.
• Fake accounts can be kept updated by automatically reposting or linking to content generated elsewhere, reinforcing the impression that the account holders are real and active.
• Human astroturfers can then be assigned these "pre-aged" accounts to create a back story, suggesting that they've been busy linking and retweeting for months. No one would suspect that they came onto the scene for the first time a moment ago, for the sole purpose of attacking an article on climate science or arguing against new controls on salt in junk food.
• With some clever use of social media, astroturfers can, in the security firm's words, "make it appear as if a persona was actually at a conference and introduce himself/herself to key individuals as part of the exercise … There are a variety of social media tricks we can use to add a level of realness to fictitious personas."
Perhaps the most disturbing revelation is this. The US Air Force has been tendering for companies to supply it with persona management software, which will perform the following tasks:
a. Create "10 personas per user, replete with background, history, supporting details, and cyber presences that are technically, culturally and geographically consistent … Personas must be able to appear to originate in nearly any part of the world and can interact through conventional online services and social media platforms."
b. Automatically provide its astroturfers with "randomly selected IP addresses through which they can access the internet" (an IP address is the number which identifies someone's computer), and these are to be changed every day, "hiding the existence of the operation". The software should also mix up the astroturfers' web traffic with "traffic from multitudes of users from outside the organisation. This traffic blending provides excellent cover and powerful deniability."
c. Create "static IP addresses" for each persona, enabling different astroturfers "to look like the same person over time". It should also allow "organisations that frequent same site/service often to easily switch IP addresses to look like ordinary users as opposed to one organisation."
Software like this has the potential to destroy the internet as a forum for constructive debate. It jeopardises the notion of online democracy. Comment threads on issues with major commercial implications are already being wrecked by what look like armies of organised trolls – as you can sometimes see on guardian.co.uk."
Posted by: somebody | Oct 31, 2012 4:15:49 AM | 42
corrction showing what they can ....
Posted by: somebody | Oct 31, 2012 4:16:20 AM | 43
This blog was started when Billmon closed the Whiskey Bar because he did not like the comments on "his" blog.
Although Bernhard does some excellent analysis ( eg recently taking the time to document media lies on Syria) - he does not "own" the conversation, and in my opinion is making a fundamental error in judgment by appealing to "my regular commentators".
If he doesn't like the comments, he can follow Billmon's example of firstly shutting down comments, then closing the bar.
No one here posts under their own name, but still they can't check their ego before entering the bar.
How can "somebody" get upset by a put-down by "Hu Bris"?
Get real - you either have something to say and say it - or do as you please. This is not a club, there is no crying on the internet, it is not be a safe zone for poseurs.
Posted by: DM | Oct 31, 2012 4:38:02 AM | 44
1)Oh sweet Jesus @somebody I beg the proprietor to check my IP I post with my own Email adress B you mail email me to verify. Somebody you sound ridiculous, I never use the epithet conspiracu theorist as an epithet because like "antisemitism" it is an epithet that you can only lose by it being hurled at you, you are marked and no amount of rational explanation can change that, please dont drive me to make an exception in your case you are treading dangerously close to paranoic territory.2)@ToivoS I dont care if you are a Rastafarian, you are a fucknut of the worst order,you are apparently a philosemite and I dont want you defending me, also I was never purged from MW you have just concocted this I havent been a regular poster there in almost a year when I started feeling the hypocrisy and PC bullshit also Pro libya and Syrian intervention. What kind of antizionist is pro Libya and Syrian intervention. Anyone can check under your handle and see that what I say you said you did indeed say. Not only are you a brainwashed shit you are a dishonest brainwashed shit. I dont need to post under diff handles I can berley post under my own for Christ sake you fucking worm.And 3)@Claudio your entire post was self contradictory. Why may one not critique that which drives zionism or did it spring forth fully formed from the head of Zeuss? no it is an ancient Jewish construct and Israel is a manifestation of that construct. If you think that analyzing the root of any given thing is off limits because boogedy boo your a this your a that than you will never get deeper than the surface. And if you say you read Gilad Atzmon you must have been reading the wrong book because his whole thesis is the direct opposite of what you post. And lastly I you may all judge for yourselves but I think any fair minded poster will see the tactic Toivos is using is extremely dishonest. Rather than refuting my claims of him being a scoundrel purgist of a brave and altruistic woman he inserts innuendo the I am a troll. Maybe you are posting under different handles. Maybe you are a hasbara employee sabotaging really effective people like Greta Berlin from bringing attention to the deprivations of the people of Gaza. Well Mr. Lutheran Im a Jew and I feel sorta like the people of Palestine deserve justice and it kills me to know what goes on there and believe me IM A FUCKING MINORITY IN MY JEWISH WORLD PAL. That is a fact, does it make you uncomfortable?? Tough tittie. When Jews are being treated like Palestinians than Ill give 2 shits about antisemitism.
Posted by: demize! | Oct 31, 2012 5:21:05 AM | 45
lol guys sorry for the typos and weird syntax I cant type when Im pissed off.
Posted by: demize! | Oct 31, 2012 5:28:14 AM | 46
I did write a personal troll remover Chrome Extension, mentioned here:
It works based on user names and removes the specific comment block if the name matches the list.
Something similar may be possible at server level, but I don't know Typepad to suggest any technique...
If there's a match name (or even some keywords) mark the comment as "check for troll".
Another option is to have a "Flag this comment" link in each comment. But surely enough this can be trolled too.
Posted by: citizen x | Oct 31, 2012 7:43:31 AM | 48
Seriously, you people haven't a clue - the Anti-Semites-under-the-bed idiot is happy because he has managed to turn the converstaion to his fave topic - who is or is not an Anti-Semite. If that ain't trolling I don't know what is.
The rest of you idiot: you really haven't got a clue about this new-fangled computer stuff, have you? The suggestions I've heard here are a indication of how utterly clueless you lot are. I suppose, if anonymity looks like a mark of professionalism ~(it may as well be fucking MAGIC for all you lot know) then actually knowing things like the meaning of "Temp anomaly" looks like the mark of a fully-paid Oil co shill (pure genius that one - "climate denial" yeah cos like "there's No climate!!") . I only look professional to you idiots becasuse you're so fuckin amateur yourselves. #
When you're lying at the bottem of a deep well of utter cluelessness, I guess even a half-way intelligent person can look like a nefarious-genius.
So not only am I being paid by Mossad, I'm also being paid by Shell.? So I get 2 cheques every month for this, eh? I must be the richest person here by a long shot.
To anyone visiting MOA for the first time: the "regulars" commenting here are THE most clueless bunch of retards you're ever likely to meet on the net - really, you'd be hard pressed to find a bunch of people less aware of how stupid they are, and how stupid they look speculating on stuff they know nothing about.
That's the prob with stupid people, they too stupid to realise how stupid they are.
Posted by: Zio-Weiss | Oct 31, 2012 7:43:58 AM | 49
"I did write a personal troll remover Chrome Extension"
yes you did, but look at who your presenting it to - these idiots prolly think an extension is something you add to your house - most of them still use IE FFS.
Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 31, 2012 8:09:27 AM | 50
"Gilad Atzom is my favorite writer on these matters"
you do realise that Mr-Anti-Semites-Under-The-Bed himself along with all the flaccid Spatch-cocks that inhabit MondoWeiss consider Atzmon to be not only AS but a "Hollycost" denier (!!!!)
By extension you are obviously a filthy AS and Holly-cost denier (!!!) in their eyes now, too.
@ the clueless gimp posting @42
"c. Create "static IP addresses" for each persona, enabling different astroturfers "to look like the same person over time"."
Did you even read b's original post? The bit where he says that the IP's change all the time? Oh wait, I get it. You're trying to look both relevant and knowledgeable by grabbing whatever you can find on Google that appears germane (but then how would a clueless-gimp recognise "germane"? A paradox wrapped in an enigma, eh?) and posting it here
Posted by: @claudio | Oct 31, 2012 8:23:27 AM | 51
US Air Force has been tendering for companies to supply it with persona management software, which will perform the following tasks:
Do you have a good reference for this? If so, something I'ld like to have/know thoroughly. Thx.
Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 31, 2012 10:32:28 AM | 53
We can add @Claudio and Tyrol to the fake names of Hu bris.
He is using a Tor network to disguise his real IP address. That is not yet easy to block.
His task seems to be disruption.
STOP feeding him!!!
demize! is a different troll. I blocked him.
Posted by: b | Oct 31, 2012 10:48:27 AM | 54
DOD Social Media Sites - United States Department of Defense ...
The Department of Defense social media directory lists all of DOD's official pages across various social media networks. Social media is all about collaboration, and we want to hear from you. Check out our pages, ask questions, provide feedback and share your thoughts.
Do you have an official DOD-level social media page that you want included in this directory? If so, please submit the link, using an official e-mail account, and the page will be added to the registry.
For Service-level social media pages -- i.e. Air Force, Army, Marine Corps, Navy, etc. -- please register with one of the following Service-specific registries. After the Services have approved the pages, they will be automatically added to the main DOD directory.
Army - http://www.army.mil/media/socialmedia/
Navy - http://www.navy.mil/socialmedia/
Marines - http://www.marines.mil/News/SocialMedia.aspx
Air Force - http://www.af.mil/socialmedia.asp
Pentagon Contractor Admits To Perpetrating Online Smear Campaign Against USA Today Reporters
Camille Chidiac, the minority owner and former president of Leonie Industries, one of the consulting firms that works with the Pentagon and was featured prominently in USA Today’s reporting, took responsibility for the misinformation campaign. USA Today reports:
“I take full responsibility for having some of the discussion forums opened and reproducing their previously published USA TODAY articles on them,” he said a statement released by his attorney, Lin Wood, of Atlanta.
“I recognize and deeply regret that my actions have caused concerns for Leonie and the U.S. military. This was never my intention. As an immediate corrective action, I am in the process of completely divesting my remaining minority ownership from Leonie,” Chidiac said.
DARPA contract solicitation
Social Media in Strategic Communication (SMISC)
Solicitation Number: DARPA-BAA-11-64
DARPA is soliciting innovative research proposals in the area of social media in strategic communication. Proposed research should investigate innovative approaches that enable revolutionary advances in science, devices, or systems.
"SMISC needs to be able to seek out “persuasion campaign structures and influence operations” developing across the social sphere. SMISC is supposed to quickly flag rumors and emerging themes on social media, figure out who’s behind it and what. Moreover, Darpa wants SMISC to be able to actually figure out whether this is a random product of the hivemind or a propaganda operation by an adversary nation or group."
five contract awards Jan-Mar 2012
#System and Technology Research LLC $6,157,220
# University of Southern California $1,497,365 SentiMetrix $661,568
#Georgia Tech Research Corporation $776,351
#Indiana University $515,887
#International Business Machines Corporation $8,987,156
Pentagon Wants a Social Media Propaganda Machine
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 31, 2012 10:53:08 AM | 55
This blog was started when Billmon closed the Whiskey Bar because he did not like the comments on "his" blog.
Hmmm... kind'a reminder how long it's been, 10+ yrs now, since Billomon/MoA began.
Others can correct me if needed, but... seems to me MoA was created well before Billmon closed up, expressly for purpose of "hashing out" what, then, was very poignant/insightful, (maybe) illuminating writing by Billmon. One of those rare folks who comes along, now and again, that just seems to be a needed voice capable of addressing what so many others are vague about, or can't quite grasp.
Personally, the timeline (eg. since Billmon began/quit) speaks volumes about, when it's all said and done... how little the apparatus (US corruption, etc.) he and others were addressing, has sctually... changed.
Although Bernhard does some excellent analysis ( eg recently taking the time to document media lies on Syria) - he does not "own" the conversation, and in my opinion is making a fundamental error in judgment by appealing to "my regular commentators".
Perhaps. I think, in exhibiting (B's writing here) rather hard to find, representative "core" (1st causes) in events he chooses to address, provokes and helps awakens the same in others. Allowing the conversations furthers that.
This has been a great place, for a long time now... for those reasons (AFAIC).
No one here posts under their own name, but still they can't check their ego before entering the bar.
Not true... I do. :)
Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 31, 2012 10:54:11 AM | 56
Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 31, 2012 10:59:44 AM | 58
Ntrepid's website has... nothing... but email address. Guardian link says it was "recently formed", coinciding w/announcement of this project. Be interesing to see what connected non-techie donor received this contract, and... by what means. Quik google doesn't turn up much, on ownership.
This is EZ stuff to write. $2.7m pretty sweet deal.
Saw a ton of this kind'a thing, back in W's earlier years... ton of it. Rep. "Duke" Cunningham scandal for instance, All Abramhoff's malfeasance... much more.
Still stunning to me just how utterly... thoroughly, intentionally corrupting most everything Bush did... was. And... how the affects of all that so carries forward now. Yet, they all walked free, little public consciousness of undeniable continuity of "that stuff" w/much of US's broken down state...
Posted by: jdmckay | Oct 31, 2012 11:24:07 AM | 59
I recently encountered a blog entry, on an FP site probably, promoting Afghanistan as a winning situation. Why doesn't the media notice the impending victory? The footnote said the guy was in Marine Corps public affairs. I researched who he was -- he's a serving Marine Corps lieutenant colonel. He used his correct name but he didn't use his rank in the article he published. "Disgusting" was one of my comments. This applied not only to the author but to the site owner.
In other words there are entire blog-sites, with various blogs, promoting a particular pro-government line. Most of FP and The Atlantic blogs fit in this category, particularly favoring the State Department. Anti-war.com often parrots media propaganda, particularly on weekends when the regular help isn't in.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 31, 2012 11:25:54 AM | 60
Sure, Don Bacon, lots of that is either legitimate opinion or a crafty exercise in calling the glass half full instead of half empty. As long as the media gives the facts I do not worry about the opinion they write in between. I begin to worry when they invent or create events, or keep silent on events. Or when someone creates personas trying to confuse me.
Let's face it, good journalism has to be paid for and nothing relieves us from thinking for ourselves.
Wikileaks has a fun 'security presentation' by Ntrepid - which includes the recommendation to use serveral IP adresses when "engaged in web harvesting"
The web connects Ntrepid with Abraxas and quotes Virginia's company record with
Richard H. Helms (director and officer)
Wesley R. Husted (officer)
Margaret A. Lee (officer)
concluding it is a front company made up of ex-CIA officers ...
Posted by: somebody | Oct 31, 2012 12:05:46 PM | 61
U.S. propaganda is defined as "public diplomacy" at State and "strategic communication" at Defense. Neither definition has anything to do with truth, but rather "informing and influencing" and the "advancement of United States Government interests, policies, and objectives."
The mission of American public diplomacy is to support the achievement of U.S. foreign policy goals and objectives, advance national interests, and enhance national security by informing and influencing foreign publics and by expanding and strengthening the relationship between the people and government of the United States and citizens of the rest of the world.
Strategic communication is focused United States Government efforts to understand and engage key audiences to create, strengthen, or preserve conditions favorable for the advancement of United States Government interests, policies, and objectives through the use of coordinated programs, plans, themes, messages, and products synchronized with the actions of all instruments of national power.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 31, 2012 12:21:58 PM | 62
@62 Quite correct. Propaganda is what Chinese and Russians do.
Posted by: dh | Oct 31, 2012 12:27:02 PM | 63
// At each addition/removal, the Extension has to be *Reloaded*
$("p.posted:contains(Posted by: demize)").parent().remove();
$('p.posted:contains("Posted by: Zio-Weiss")').parent().remove();
$('p.posted:contains("Posted by: @claudio")').parent().remove();
$('p.posted:contains("Posted by: Tyrol")').parent().remove();
An version of this script could be maintained on the MoA server, updated by a trusted group of users. Readers of the blog could then choose whether to set their own filter, rely on the one provided, or view the unfiltered comments.
Posted by: pmr9 | Oct 31, 2012 12:30:40 PM | 64
I would like to explain how the term "anti-Semitic" arose. It originated with the conservative parties in Germany. One of the dilemmas a conservative party has in a country with universal suffrage is how to get the average labourer or lower middle class person to vote for it. Here is the way the German conservative parties solved it.
They worked to develop a consciousness feeling of the nation to break the feeling of class solidarity revealed in the French Revolution and the Revolution of 1848 when the working and middle classes saw how the rich sided with the aristocracy, who attempted to use force to break the two revolutions. In Germany, they did this by taking the German mentality of hard work and efficiency and transforming into a national identity based on an artificial linguistic unity (Written German is based on one of the most archaic dialects of German; most dialects have a simpler grammar.) and a cultivated claim of a common racial origin.
However, the German Jews posed a problem. Most of them were not Orthodox but were Reform (in spirit similar to Unitarianism compared to Catholicism), so the German Gentiles rarely saw Jewish men walking around wearing a kippa / yarmulke, long curls instead of sideburns / sideboards and full beards. Furthermore, the Jews were pro-French Revolution and pro-Revolution of 1848 as their rights were finally being recognized. So in most respects they were assimilated Germans. They shared the German mentality but they most definitely were not believers in a common racial origin. The conservatives needed to neutralize the Jews, so these conservatives developed the notion of Anti-Semite, originally a euphemism designed to emphasize the foreignness of Jews.
Posted by: Albertde | Oct 31, 2012 1:09:40 PM | 65
they are showing now what I can, above claudio is not "claudio" and I fully expect multiple somebodies here ...
"what 'I' can"??? freudian slip?
of course @40 was me (claudio), it's easy to find other references to Gilad Atzmon by me on MoA
the troll infection here is Zionist-driven, and they hate Atzmon (like vampires and garlic)
I think 'somebody' #37-39-42-43 wasn't 'somebody'
Posted by: claudio | Oct 31, 2012 1:36:16 PM | 66
66, very sorry, I just did not think you would join a diversion on Zionism in a thread on trolls ...
but, of course, anonymous names can be used by everybody. I have done it before here to make a point in the thread on the Iranian election, where people thought their name and IP address were proof they were Iranians reporting from the street, and I found someone posting as somebody who was not me, but of course, who am I to complain, everybody is somebody, and of course "somebody" cannot be offended by "Hu-Bris" :-))
Posted by: somebody | Oct 31, 2012 1:50:28 PM | 67
@67 the anti-semitism/Zionism querelle is not a diversion; also Don Bacon, for example, has repeatedly posted on State Dept.'s changing definitions of anti-semitism;
many critics of Israel are anti-semites; Zionists have historically become racists: anti-Arab and anti-Islam anti-Semites! and many Western supporters of Israel areracists in an even wider and deeper sense
the fight against modern colonialism requires an understanding of this; and it's telling that one of the most powerful rhetorical weapons colonialists have to silence opposition is the anti-Semite card, cultivating the current confusion
and it's telling that the anti-Semite anathema is invoked, sooner or later, by most trolls
Posted by: claudio | Oct 31, 2012 2:12:40 PM | 68
Posted by: somebody | Oct 31, 2012 2:20:56 PM | 69
Somebody @42, thanks for the text from the Guardian and its link to an orange diary from early 2011 (with almost 600 comments). All of those tactics/services listed in the leaked e-mail had been rife on that blog and spin-off blogs for years before 2011. I particularly remember some problems with sockpuppets and persona management at Political Flesh Feast and Free Speech Zone about 3-5 years ago, which was manipulated by hasbarists at the orange site to try to get some of their critics of Israel banned.
Posted by: Rusty Pipes | Oct 31, 2012 2:34:04 PM | 70
Watching you two is like receiving a masterclass in idiocy
"and it's telling that one of the most powerful rhetorical weapons colonialists have to silence opposition is the anti-Semite card, cultivating the current confusion"
yes, and ToivoS and Noah were the ones to use it.
"and it's telling that the anti-Semite anathema is invoked, sooner or later, by most trolls"
So ToivoS and Noah are trolls, obviously
Posted by: @idiots | Oct 31, 2012 2:37:20 PM | 71
genius, a 3rd idiot has joined the first two. A trifecta of idiocy?
Posted by: @idiots | Oct 31, 2012 2:39:00 PM | 72
@idiots - you need a course in elementary logic; "most trolls play the anti-semite card" doesn't mean that if you are anti-semite you are troll
ToivoS might sound like an anti-Semite from what he said at @23
There does exist a good old fashioned meaning to that word and many who subscribe to it will join the struggle for Palestinian justice to promote their own hate of Jews in general.
but that would be uncharacteristic of him in relation to his posts till now, and anyways that doesn't make him a troll
Noah said the opposite of what you claim
Posted by: claudio | Oct 31, 2012 3:50:06 PM | 73
Oh dear, this is embarrassing to watch.
you think to yourself "Surely there can't be people that are this dumb in real life?"
but the sad truth is there are, and not only that, but many of them are regular commenters @MOA it seems.
"Noah said the opposite of what you claim"
no he didn't, stop lying
Posted by: @idiot #1 | Oct 31, 2012 3:57:20 PM | 74
Of course, the advice 'don't feed the troll/s' is good sense.
However, if troll posts cannot be immediately deleted, one can feel obliged to counter the 'facts' or arguments which they contain.
Anyway, it is good that this particular troll (former identities including Zio-Weiss & Ed Milliband, now posting as @idiot & @idiot #1 etc) has been emphatically 'outed', whether he / she is a minor hasbara operation to try & discredit this website, or a rather industrious someone with an 'honest' anti-Jewish ethnic / sectarian agenda.
Posted by: Noah | Oct 31, 2012 4:50:47 PM | 75
all I can say is, I have benefited tremendously from b's perspective and the great commentary here at MoA. it's worth skipping over some of the distracting tangents and trolling that ensues when inquiries near proximity to "what's really going on".
Posted by: lizard | Oct 31, 2012 8:19:41 PM | 76
The rather obvious solution to this problem is dumping the anonymous posting and requiring actual registration of a valid email address and logging in for attribution. I've seen it in use for years now, but I really couldn't say what it might involve. I'm just a plastic process technician (engineering of another kind) so I don't really know much about software engineering. I did use my actual email address here years ago and never got spammed, so something like that might be practical. I've grown used to keeping track of the various personalities here, and there are some I just skip over as soon as I recognize them. No, not SufferingFools/HuBris/various idiots but another cut'n'paste artist I don't like. The news and information I find first only here is worth a little reading before I just skip over what I find useless.
Posted by: Jim T | Oct 31, 2012 9:26:25 PM | 77
"....has been emphatically 'outed', whether he / she is a minor hasbara operation to try & discredit this website, or a rather industrious someone with an 'honest' anti-Jewish ethnic / sectarian agenda"
My intuition tells me that he/she is merely an asshole. You needn't complicate the issue.
Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Oct 31, 2012 9:57:54 PM | 78
"Most of FP and The Atlantic blogs fit in this category, particularly favoring the State Department"
Yeah. That Clemons ended up being a huge disappointment, didn't he? Sold out, to the core.
Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Oct 31, 2012 10:01:32 PM | 79
ToivoS - how exactly do you know Demize was banned at MW? last I saw they rarely announce who they ban, other than certain well known posters like Blankfort, Witty, and some zio-trolls like eee etc.. I have not seen any announcemnt as to his banning and he/she did not confess that I saw. So again, how did you get the information? are you suggesting you have inside track there? please tell more....
Second - I don't believe for one second you are not Jewish. Given your posts here and on MW ---it just doesn't pass the smell test. Even for a would-be philosemite your profile of comments points elsewhere. I know you think that being non-Jewish (- and a Lutheran of all things! - might give you greater credibility in flushing out the AS "crowd", but really - do you think everyone is stupid?
Any chance you may want to come clean? don't Lutherans have confessions?
Posted by: Merlin2 | Nov 1, 2012 2:34:40 AM | 80
Damn, these guys seem to popping up out all over here.
Nice work on calling them out B, but it's starting to look like 'The Revenge of the Zombie Trolls' on some these threads...
Maybe take it as a compliment to your excellent work, B - not many genuinely 'serious' multi-issue blogs attract this much disruptive attention.
Also good to hear about Gareth Porter's new book - much needed, & hopefully will make a wider impression.
RE: somebody @42 - Nice work on posting the links & info - was hoping someone would dig up some links on the 'business' side of things.
Wouldn't mind seeing something like a cross between Rightweb ( http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ ) & a wikileaks subthread permanently tracking how many & how big these companies are getting, as well as tracking & naming names of professional trolls (don't have the time or skillset myself)...
Posted by: KenM | Nov 1, 2012 3:13:31 AM | 81
It will go the business cycle KenM, first cheap replicas, everybody trolling and being trolled, then professional syntax analysis anti-troll software, then open source anti-troll software :-))
Posted by: somebody | Nov 1, 2012 3:25:47 AM | 82
I just serendipitously ran across this which is most appropriate for this thread.
COINTELPRO Techniques for Dilution, Misdirection and Control of an Internet Forum
I start with the conclusion:
Remember these techniques are only effective if the forum participants DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THEM. Once they are aware of these techniques the operation can completely fail, and the forum can become uncontrolled. At this point other avenues must be considered such as initiating a false legal precidence to simply have the forum shut down and taken offline. This is not desirable as it then leaves the enforcement agencies unable to track the percentage of those in the population who always resist attempts for control against them. Many other techniques can be utilized and developed by the individual and as you develop further techniques of infiltration and control it is imperative to share then with HQ.
COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum.
There are several techniques for the control and manipulation of a internet forum no matter what, or who is on it. We will go over each technique and demonstrate that only a minimal number of operatives can be used to eventually and effectively gain a control of a 'uncontrolled forum.'
Technique #1 - 'FORUM SLIDING'
Technique #2 - 'CONSENSUS CRACKING'
Technique #3 - 'TOPIC DILUTION'
Technique #4 - 'INFORMATION COLLECTION'
Technique #5 - 'ANGER TROLLING'
Technique #6 - 'GAINING FULL CONTROL'
Definitely worth checking out.
Posted by: juannie | Nov 1, 2012 9:49:11 AM | 83
This new age of total BS,feudalism and racism,totally sucks,and those who believe serial liars claims of eradication and victimization of those poor Zionists need their heads examined,or their ethnicity challenged,as only wackos disbelieve the actual reality of the Zionist control of almost every avenue of info today,outside of a few blogs like here,and their total domination of our world.
And yeah,those bastions of truthiness like the Guardian and Mondoweiss weeded me out,a badge of honor to me.Probably both over my protestation of alleged forgeries,which to me look like granite sculpture,despite the associations of the Sephardic and Ashkenazi rabbis protestations to the contrary.
I've never heard of anything that was illegal to discuss,but learned and wiser heads than mine have decreed otherwise.
Posted by: dahoit | Nov 1, 2012 12:02:59 PM | 84
I have now found a way to block the idiots comments coming through the Tor network that he uses to hide his IP address. It seems to work well. There are already five of his comments in the spam queue waiting for their deletion.
At least for now his party is over.
Posted by: b | Nov 1, 2012 1:35:09 PM | 85
This is quite interesting. I wonder if you can defeat the idiot.
How China Blocks the Tor Anonymity Network | MIT Technology ...
4 Apr 2012 – Security analysts reveal the inner workings of China's efforts to block the Tor anonymity network--and how to get around this censorship.
Posted by: DM | Nov 1, 2012 5:17:41 PM | 86
jeez I hope this doesn't double post. fuckin captured by captcha eh?
Well in one way I'm pleased to see that many have finally realised that blogs on contentious issues are frequently distorted and digressed (OK using an active verb in a passive sense? is bad grammar, hmm I digress :) [doncha hate 'smileys'] by types who for whatever reason from paycheck to personality disorder invest a heap of effort into disruption.
In the end it doesn't matter whether the disruptor is paid or just fucked up, just as whether or not they actually believe their bullshit is irrelevant.
Much of the problem comes from an undue reliance on other web sites as 'proof' especially when one is doing little more than just parroting an already stated & circulated argument. Then it is just too easy for drones (in the original sense & meaning both human and digital) to hunt down supporting 'evidence' for their cliched contention. All participants do it and the result is distorting, opaque, uninformative dross. (See the weather thread a week or so back).
Lately my mind has been absorbed by the way that divisive anti-humanist agendas are completely dominating 'western culture'. This has culminated in the best contemporary 'Art' originating from an anti-humanist perspective, and is something that immensely saddens me.
Worse in popular culture. I've written about 5 pieces (I never found anywhere to post em too many people arguin the number of angels on a pinhead etc.) which compare the ersatz left attempt to brainwash the masses, Aaron Sorkin's dire n schmaltzy 'The Newsroom' a piece of absolute crap released in a failed attempt to explain 'the truth about the tea party to amerika' with the right's entry into popular culture, Kelsey Grammar's excellent and worthy (well according to my artistic sensibility anyway) TV series that explores the corrupt political environment that spawned Barak oblamblam, a TV show, "Boss'.
There is simply no comparison. Boss stands on its own as drama and uses the medium (TV drama & its fascination with who is fucking who and whose picking up the tab)in new and interesting ways, mostly avoiding all the cliches that Sorkin's garbage grabs with both hands.
So what is all this doing in an hysterical thread about the buzzword of new media dummies for 2012, trolls?
Simply that exploring ideas such as the extent to which amerikan imperialism has succeeded in dominating the landscape, to the point where the best cultural endeavour is dominated by it, is likely to be more interesting and provocative than endless restatements of hackneyed ideas about false flags n conspiracies.
Better yet it is only by dissecting anti-humanist strategies, that people have any hope at all of countering them.
Trolls are basically dumb, sure some are articulate but they are peeps who have missed the point of life so they waste their existence tryin to 'fuck with others'. Discussing ideas that they can't google, then cut n paste a counter for is the best way of frog marching em out the door.
Posted by: Debs is dead | Nov 1, 2012 6:22:35 PM | 87
PissedOffAmerican #78: "My intuition tells me that he/she is merely an asshole."
For sure I agree this is most likely- although, he/she is a keen & busy asshole with motivation & some skills.
However, I don't think the possibility of Hasbara in this case should be entirely ruled out. That there are very effective & well resourced Zionist propaganda operations on the web is something that we know, & clearly there is a level of deceit involved in that the army of web posters they use do not admit that they are under regular instruction on what to say & where to say it etc etc.
Given that, it is surely most unlikely that such talents & resources have not also turned to 'black propaganda' methods, in order to discredit opponents.
And BTW, the relatively 'benign' (in its internal affairs) British state apparatus has had agents operating in the trade union movement, the Communist Party & other left wing organisations in the late 20th Century, as is now in the public domain, and has more recently been exposed as having physically infiltrated environmental campaigns.
What are the chances that there is no electronic infiltration taking place, of opposition on the web etc, by & on behalf of the Zionist state & imperialist agencies?
But none of that proves that MoA is a target for such activity, or that 'Zio-Weiss' & his/her various identities are part of such a programme. And on probability, as you say, he/she is merely an asshole.
Posted by: Noah |
Posted by: Noah | Nov 1, 2012 6:33:50 PM | 88
juannie 83, that's a really interesting link.
thanks b, i do not envy you.
Posted by: annie | Nov 1, 2012 8:09:28 PM | 89
"I have now found a way to block the idiots comments coming through the Tor network that he uses to hide his IP address."
Tor is a U.S military establishment application.
"Tor was originally designed, implemented, and deployed as a third-generation onion routing project of the Naval Research Laboratory. It was originally developed with the U.S. Navy in mind, for the primary purpose of protecting government communications. Today, it is used every day for a wide variety of purposes by the military, journalists, law enforcement officers, activists, and many others."
They (American security services - cia, military "intelligence", private goons, etc.)troll almost as often as Israel's hasbara network of web sayanim does.
Posted by: вот так | Nov 1, 2012 8:12:07 PM | 90
yeah, the point about proxy servers is that they hide private information to websites and to ISP providers so that the proxy server has all this information to itself :-))
Posted by: somebody | Nov 2, 2012 3:09:21 AM | 91
Aloha, annie... So, m'dear, any idea why Zio-Weiss, et al, was slandering y'all so ferociously...? Do you recognize the syntax of the troll(s)...?
Posted by: CTuttle | Nov 2, 2012 3:55:53 AM | 92
I think you may have killed the wrong pig.
Posted by: DM | Nov 2, 2012 7:07:03 AM | 93
Just idle curiosity (and ignorance), but does anyone know if a smart phone is indistinguishable from a PC or laptop on the www? I can log on to an MoA comment thread with mine but the dictation function fails due to "server error" and I couldn't be bothered trying to type more than a few words on a mini keypad.
There's obviously SOME difference because the smart phone sometimes displays pages of blogs and websites stripped of the columns on one or both sides of the main text. If it can omit those, what else can it omit?
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 2, 2012 11:33:26 PM | 94
94, 1) the smartphone dictation function presumably is an "app" so if that app is not programmed to fill in the forms of web pages, that's it.
Large commercial websites usually serve different versions of websites to desktop pc's and handhelds. It is up to the website provider.
Posted by: somebody | Nov 3, 2012 2:48:21 AM | 95
ctuttle, sure i have my own ideas. my hunch is it was black flag as noah mentioned, but i could be wrong. but that's just my hunch. i don't fancy myself as a syntax specialist. also, it didn't really bother me. par for the course.
i thought it was interesting it was happening here at moa.
Posted by: annie | Nov 3, 2012 6:25:55 PM | 97
@ somebody Nov 3, 2012 2:48:21 AM | 95
Thanks. That made perfect sense ... and reminded me that stripped down pages are clear evidence that handhelds are distinguishable from PCs and laptops on the www.
My question was prompted as a result of wondering whether anonymous trolling might be easier/simpler with a 'handheld'.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 3, 2012 9:18:19 PM | 98
This is crazy_inventor. I stopped posting here awhile back because I was only interested in Fukushima, and when you indicated you weren't, I took it as my cue that in order to avoid being a troll, to buzz off..
I occasionally take a quick look here every few weeks or so.
I have directed people to here to see the real situation re: Syria, and the place (la-imc) IS infested with trolls.. In fact I stopped posting there as well, (even though I'm welcome to) because it's a waste of time since only a few trolls read the comments there and posts from people not in the 'in group' are never syndicated..
La-imc is infested with exactly what people above have described - zio-trolls - who specialize in using other people's nics and so on, to spread FUD, smear them, etc..
You can go there http://la.indymedia.org/comment_latest.php and see for yourself, where I posted a few threads re: climate change, fukushima. (tried to encourage people to build thier own radiation detectors, just like here)
I take a dim view of trolls spoofing my nic, so I'm only posting this comment to let you know. I normally use Tor (anyone can) but am posting this from my hometown IP on purpose as a sign of faith. IMC knows who and where I am (I've been dealing with them for over 10 years) which is why I can publish news there (unwelcome posters/trolls/spammers have thier posts hidden - you can view the hidden posts there from a link on the main page near the bottom)
Also the e-mail I supplied here relates to the radio stations, which the spoofer doesn't know. Only you, IMC, exiled online, and a few other admins do. It's an old inactive e-mail I stopped using years ago, so a google search might show it here & there but years back.
It's not publicly known to trolls and spammers/spoofers.
Wow I just googled it myself and the only hit was from a dump of the rootkit.com MySQL database, that Anonymous released.. :)
good thing I closed out that e-mail years ago..
There you are - that e-mail, IMC showing my un-hidden crazy_inventor published stories, and using my local IP here now, authenticates the real crazy_inventor. I wanted you to know it's not me, but someone spoofing my nic. I simply lost interest in commenting here..
Posted by: crazy_inventor | Nov 4, 2012 1:35:01 PM | 99
When moderating a site that was being blitzed by a small team of assorted weirdos - including stalkers, hasbara zealots, assorted racists and one pervert subsequently jailed for 'grooming underage girls' and other serious sex offences, for a period the problem seemed insurmountable. Then our systems admin guy wrote to TOR and was given its blocklist, and instructions on how to close the site to the various miscreants who use TOR as a means of creating conflict/ preying/ stalking/ generally trolling all over the internet. Stripped of the 'spinning proxies' that they were accustomed to coming in on with TOR (if you have a 'who's online' page how TOR works plays out before your eyes), they tried a brief fight back with proxies that all seemed to be linked to / shared among North American academic institutions but as soon as we'd found the list they were using those IPs were lost to them too. A slow death followed when a spate of attempts using Hidemyass and other cheap 'free proxy' services were attempted, but those are easily picked up via a simple Google check - and an occasional glance at the 'working proxies' lists that various Blackhat sites post daily and checking of them against new site registrants was sufficient to flush out any further 'comeback' efforts. Our bottom line was that anyone wishing to use a 'conversation-style' site had no need to disguise themselves with scores - thousands in the case of TOR users - of proxy IPs so our solution was to block such users, and their proxy IPs. We had exceptions, such as AOL ranges from various countries, as AOL IPs are picked up as proxies even when they are not being used as such. Several years of site abuse vanished and has not returned by simply contacting the providers of free proxy lists and asking them for instructions on how to block their product. Good luck B, it takes (too much) time to do the digging and weed out the fakes from the reals, but it is do-able.
Posted by: Troll splatting | Nov 7, 2012 3:53:10 AM | 100