Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 24, 2012

Open Thread 2012-27

Sorry for not posting. I am busy with a deadline project plus some urgent family stuff. I hope to be back posting tomorrow. Please behave.

Posted by b on October 24, 2012 at 01:50 PM | Permalink

Comments
next page »

Kill vs. capture and the drone debate

The NATO military command, ISAF, primarily the US military, has apparently changed its procedures in Afghanistan. Whereas it formerly killed suspected terrorists, it now captures them. At least that is what I have surmised from reading ISAF daily reports.

While ISAF kills people involved in attacks, it captures suspects.

Here's the most recent one (excerpts).

KABUL, Afghanistan (Oct. 24, 2012) — Afghan and coalition forces yesterday confirmed the arrest of Taliban leader Mullah Abdul Rahman in Kunduz province Oct. 19. . .An Afghan and coalition security force arrested a Taliban leader in Logar province today. . . .Afghan and coalition forces today confirmed the arrest of a Taliban leader in Kandahar province yesterday. . . .An Afghan and coalition force arrested three insurgents during a security operation in search of a Taliban leader in Helmand province today.

Presumably these are the same kinds of people that Obama is summarily killing in Pakistan, Yemen, and other countries. So there is an obvious incongruity between the US president killing suspects in several countries and his military force capturing them in a designated war zone.

Now, considering the captures in war zones and the kills in peace zones, with the military capturing and the president killing the same sorts of suspects, it's obvious that to achieve consistency and save lives there needs to be more war zones and less peace zones. The US needs to be an empire conducting war everywhere not just somewhere, to thereby increase the capture/kill rate. I think this is perfectly clear. I Hope there will be a Change. Yes We Can. A New Beginning.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24, 2012 2:32:02 PM | 1

Is there then any real difference between the Bush and Obama regime?

- from previous thread.

No, in the sense that Obama is a sharp forward extension of Bush, on war, civil liberties, torture, Gitmo, tracking terrorists, the security state, etc. Pandering to and supporting the non-State actors (Banks, corps) and neglecting the ppl.

(The drift predates G. W. Bush.)

Obama has gone a tad further.

Step by step (whistle blowers etc.) and thrashing the separation of powers. The Pres. now has the right to kill anyone, etc.

Yes, One example, Education.

Bush’s program, despised and derided by ‘reasonable’, whatever that means, educators, teachers, state authorities, was:

No Child Left Behind.

Skip the criticism, it still upheld public education and paying for it. Laura Bush had a hand, I guess.

Obama’s progr. is:

Race to the Top

It is boondogle of confusion, in favor of charter schools, aka privatization, vouchers, corps and edu publishers, content creators, computer sellers, with a plethora of nonsensical obligatory measures > the public sector (e.g. figuring all student progress year by year, in each topic, all teacher performance rated - favoring admins, authority and control over teachers.)

Nutty and detrimental competition between states to comply with ‘standard numbers, targets, etc.’ for ‘fed money’..

Wiki has a mild, soothing and low level technical description, basic info, which leaves a lot out, nevertheless telling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_Top

Practically everything Obama has speechified re. Edu. is contrary to his elsewhere stated and enforced policies; all his moves are in favor of an elite, upper strata (imho) and providers, corps, who can make money, etc. which he hides under glib talk.

The truth of the matter is that he never thought about basic education, understands nothing, reads nothing, cares not at all, and listens to phony experts of his choosing, for about 5 mins, and yeah, that is good to go. (Actually it is worse than that but enough.)

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 24, 2012 2:44:38 PM | 2

Is there then any real difference between the Bush and Obama regime?

- from previous thread.

No, in the sense that Obama is a sharp forward extension of Bush, on war, civil liberties, torture, Gitmo, tracking terrorists, the security state, etc. Pandering to and supporting the non-State actors (Banks, corps) and neglecting the ppl.

(The drift predates G. W. Bush.)

Obama has gone a tad further.

Step by step (whistle blowers etc.) and thrashing the separation of powers. The Pres. now has the right to kill anyone, etc.

Yes, One example, Education.

Bush’s program, despised and derided by ‘reasonable’, whatever that means, educators, teachers, state authorities, was:

No Child Left Behind.

Skip the criticism, it still upheld public education and paying for it. Laura Bush had a hand, I guess.

Obama’s progr. is:

Race to the Top

It is boondogle of confusion, in favor of charter schools, aka privatization, vouchers, corps and edu publishers, content creators, computer sellers, with a plethora of nonsensical obligatory measures > the public sector (e.g. figuring all student progress year by year, in each topic, all teacher performance rated - favoring admins, authority and control over teachers.)

Nutty and detrimental competition between states to comply with ‘standard numbers, targets, etc.’ for ‘fed money’..

Wiki has a mild, soothing and low level technical description, basic info, which leaves a lot out, nevertheless telling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_Top

Practically everything Obama has speechified re. Edu. is contrary to his elsewhere stated and enforced policies; all his moves are in favor of an elite, upper strata (imho) and providers, corps, who can make money, etc. which he hides under glib talk.

The truth of the matter is that he never thought about basic education, understands nothing, reads nothing, cares not at all, and listens to phony experts of his choosing, for about 5 mins, and yeah, that is good to go. (Actually it is worse than that but enough.)

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 24, 2012 2:44:38 PM | 3

sorry for double post, i really don't understand how that happens.

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 24, 2012 2:51:33 PM | 4

Obama is a republican, Romney has surrounded himself with former Bush Jr. advisers, and a vote for Jill Stein is a waste (if she's even on the ballot in your state), so what can we do?

Posted by: Kanzanian | Oct 24, 2012 3:07:24 PM | 5

@ 5 : " so what can we do?"

Contribute to the folks you believe in, and try to inform yourself as best you can.
Being at this website is a good start.

Posted by: ben | Oct 24, 2012 3:15:09 PM | 6

What can we do?
I live in a rural area and can only vote absentee.
When I received my ballot it went straight into the trash.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24, 2012 3:37:01 PM | 7

@Don Bacon #1 - interesting tactical shift; my thoughts:

Afghanistan is not simply a war theater, it's a war theater from which the Us is unsuccessfully (with respect to its aims in the region) trying to disengage, probably that's why it finally and reluctantly decided (apparently/temporarily/?) to contain its killing sprees

maybe the Us is collecting hostages, maybe it's trying to establish contacts (under the cover of detention) with certain factions, maybe it will torture them to get longer lists of "suspects" to later bomb with drones (unlikely in my view in this instance); certainly it's appeasing Karzai who has always vocally protested against "collateral damage"

Posted by: claudio | Oct 24, 2012 3:55:14 PM | 8

Is there then any real difference between the Bush and Obama regime?

Well, for starters, Obama likes smaller footprint operations--easier to hide from the American people.

Also, Obama will succeed in gutting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and unemployment insurance and make the Bush tax cuts permanent. This will be done in the interim period or interregnum between November 6 and January 31, a magnified repeat of what went down in December 2010. This is why he was groomed to be the President.

People will finally get to see what a truly despicable person Obama is, though Democrats will continue to rush to his defense, saying he was forced into it. Right! Nasty Republicans will shoulder the blame, even though they control only one house of Congress.

It's like the despotic King of Morocco. Moroccans say what a wonderful person he is; it's his advisers who are awful! Of course, criticizing the king can have dire consequences, probably soon coming to a "democracy" near you.

Posted by: JohnH | Oct 24, 2012 3:58:53 PM | 9

After being resceduled, Austere Challenge 2012 is underway in Israel with several thousand US troops on hand for the largest missile-defense drill staged by the two allies.

The Palestinians have noticed and have offered up targets.

FoxNews, Oct 24, 2012
Gaza militants blast southern Israel with rockets, drawing airstrikes, threats of retaliation

JERUSALEM – Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip fired dozens of rockets and mortar shells into southern Israel on Wednesday in the heaviest bombardment on the area in months, drawing ominous Israeli threats of retaliation and dangers of escalation.

Israeli officials said more than 80 projectiles were fired, and Hamas claimed responsibility for many of the attacks. Israel responded with a series of airstrikes on rocket launchers, killing two Palestinian militants, according to Gaza medical officials.


wiki, Oct 24, 2012
Palestinian terrorists fired at least 80 rockets and mortars into Israel; most landed in the Eshkol, Lachish and Ashkelon Coast regional councils. Five people were injured; two of the victims were critically wounded and were evacuated by helicopter to Soroka Medical Center in Beersheba. A house was also reportedly damaged. At least 8 rockets were intercepted by the Iron Dome defense system. Municipalities in southern Israel cancelled school. Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, claimed responsibility for the attacks. Israeli air strikes on rocket launching squads killed four Hamas militants throughout the day.

Iron Dome is an extremely costly anti-rocket system which is supposed to discriminate between incoming rockets which might do harm, and destroy them, and those destined for farm fields. Its effectiveness against relatively cheap multitudes of incoming rockets is being tested now.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24, 2012 4:03:01 PM | 10

It seems like the Pals are in fact offering up an austere challenge.
austere:
1. Severe or stern in disposition or appearance; somber and grave
2. Strict or severe in discipline
3. Having no adornment or ornamentation; bare

On the Israel side, it's not so austere.
Israel didn’t buy Iron Dome on its own. America chipped in $200 million, and if a proposal in next year’s defense bill becomes law, that number will increase to around $900 million. (Each Iron Dome installation costs about $50 million, plus another $62,000 per interceptor.)

Intercepting a $800 Kassam rocket with a $62,000 Iron Dome missile does not make financial sense.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24, 2012 4:15:45 PM | 11

I hope b is rather busy with a project deadline than a deadline project...

Posted by: thomas | Oct 24, 2012 5:25:01 PM | 12

@Don #11:

Intercepting a $800 Kassam rocket with a $62,000 Iron Dome missile does not make financial sense.

That's entirely a matter of perspective, I believe.

Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | Oct 24, 2012 5:32:10 PM | 13

Get a load of this crap... Not supplying Stinger missiles to Syrian rebels: U.S.

Posted by: CTuttle | Oct 24, 2012 6:04:16 PM | 14

@DWY
It's also a sign of the times, with cheap weapons (like IED's) available to partisans which prevail over expensive, complicated military forces and machines. The Iron Dome is not only expensive but its complexity makes it vulnerable, similar to the "trillion-dollar" (program) F-35.

General Cartwright: "We built the F-35 with absolutely no protection for it from a cyber standpoint." This is a fighter aircraft that will serve as the backbone of the United States aviation for decades, and is already hampered by problems millions lines of software code.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24, 2012 6:06:30 PM | 15

Glenn Greenwald
"When it comes to justifying the killing of civilians, the only difference between the Joe Kleins of the world and Osama bin Laden is that they're on different sides. To the extent one wanted to distinguish them, one could say that the violence and aggression brought by the US to the Muslim world vastly exceeds - vastly - the violence and aggression brought by the Muslim world to the US. That's just a fact."

Posted by: somebody | Oct 24, 2012 6:13:04 PM | 16

Many countries have Stingers and they are produced under license in Turkey. -wiki

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24, 2012 6:19:50 PM | 17

I think we can expect a few Mondoweiss refugees soon

The Pretend Anti-Zionists at Mondoweiss are having yet another purge. Kind of amazing how people that style themselves liberal are so fond of pruging those that dare to point out relevant facts regarding Israel.

To my knowledge they have had at least 2 or 3 purges in the past 2 years

- the rationale for the latest cyber-pogrom is

". . . a significant part of the community wants to talk about Israeli policy in the context of Jewish history and Jewish identity, and do so in a highly critical manner. Clearly a lot of people, including many in our community, want to have these conversations and regard them as necessary to resolving the Middle East conflict. We don’t. We are tired of serving as a platform for this discussion, including in the comment section, and don’t see the conversation as a productive one. From here on out, the Mondoweiss comment section will no longer serve as a forum to pillory Jewish culture and religion as the driving factors in Israeli and US policy.

We are making this change because this discussion makes for a toxic, often racist, discourse, and scares off others who would otherwise be drawn to the issues this site concerns itself with."

These people spend far more time hunting for imaginary "Anti-Semitism" than they do helping out Palestinians

They let Zionists post the most outrageously racist shit imaginable, but dare to take a swipe at the corrosive influence of Religious racism inherent in traditional Judaism and you'll be out on the street in no time at all

Guess that's what happens when one sits back and lets too many people, whose main aim seems to be to defend Judaism in general rather than providing real opposition to the ravages of the crazy racist Zionists, run the show.

If people that consider themselves supporters of the Palestinian cause spend so much time worrying about offending the racist Israelis and their supporters amongst Jewish Americans, they're not really much use to the Palestinas at all, are they?

Posted by: Zio-Wiess? | Oct 24, 2012 7:54:05 PM | 18

Ben @ #5 Well said, epecially about being on this site. I like the way "b", arguably perhaps,some would say, isn't obsessed with a narrow subject range, choosing instead to cover a wide range of topics. His research brings up all sorts of Outa-Left-Field type stuff!! and one would miss a wealth of other information if one didn't peruse the comments section as well. Most comment sections soon deteriorate into verbal stoushes, this one being one of the few exceptions . . .with trolls being I.D.ed swiftly and dealt with.

Posted by: DontNnSUName | Oct 24, 2012 8:02:23 PM | 19

@ Don Bacon,

Q: ...it's obvious that to achieve consistency and save lives there needs to be more war zones and less peace zones.

R: Hammer. Nail. Head.

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Oct 24, 2012 8:31:27 PM | 20

@ Noirette,

Q: sorry for double post, i really don't understand how that happens.

R: Click twice. It's not rocket science.

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Oct 24, 2012 9:02:27 PM | 21

IMHO Iron Dome is an expensive charade, probably entirely bought and paid for by American debt. (Israelis wouldn't be stupid enough to pay for it themselves.)

A few years ago, some physicists working in pattern recognition explained the problem to me: identification of the object means identifying the heat source. Once rockets are launched, they coast to their target. So the problem is akin to identifying a cold rock flying at several hundred mph within a time frame of a few seconds.

The recent exercise in the Persian Gulf to find mines was a failure. Mines are cold, but at least they don't move. If they couldn't identify mines, what are the odds they can find a cold, high speed bomb hurtling through the air?

It's all psyops and BS: very, very expensive BS.

Posted by: JohnH | Oct 24, 2012 9:06:55 PM | 22

The Gaza rocket assault was a counter to IDF attacks on Gaza.

Israel Defense, Oct 24, 2012

More than 50 rockets and mortar bombs were fired towards Israel since the night hours, and five homes suffered direct impacts. The Iron Dome system successfully intercepted seven rockets fired towards Israel.

In light of the fire, a decision was made not to open schools this morning in the areas of the Eshkol, Shaar Hanegev and Sdot Negev regional councils, and citizens were advised to stay in protected areas. The Safir Academic Collage near Sderot also decided that classes will not take place.

The projectile assault occurred after the IDF attacked several targets in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday. The IDF attacks followed the severe wounding of an IDF officer after a roadside explosive charge detonated in the area of the border fence at Kisufim, near the central region of the Gaza Strip. Hamas has vowed to "avenge" the IDF attacks of the past few days.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 24, 2012 10:49:48 PM | 23

Remember the fire yesterday at the Sudan arms factory?

Israel bombs Sudan

http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_10_25/Israel-bombs-Sudan/

"Sudanese police announced the introduction of increased security measures to protect sensitive facilities after an air strike on an arms factory in Khartoum.

The incident occurred on Tuesday when, according to the Sudanese Information Minister, four Israeli warplanes bombed the plant Yarmouk arms plant in Khartoum.

The air-strikes started a large fire, which killed two people and injured another who is in the hospital.

The authorities intend to send a complaint to the UN Security Council.

Four military planes attacked an arms factory in Khartoum where there was a huge fire overnight, a Sudanese minister said on Wednesday, blaming Israel for the air strike.

"Four military planes attacked the Yarmouk plant," Information Minister Ahmed Belal Osman told reporters in Khartoum, adding the planes appeared to approach the site from the east."

Posted by: вот так | Oct 25, 2012 12:09:01 AM | 24

Zio-Wiess? Sorry to hear that you were banned from MW. Obviously under another name, but nevertheless, it was just as well. Here is the problem in a nutshell, you say: "but dare to take a swipe at the corrosive influence of Religious racism inherent in traditional Judaism". I see all religions as basically racist. To focus on Judaism is, in my opinion, simply antisemitic. MW has recognized that fact and has decided to remove that discussion from his blog. Perhaps b will allow you to bring it here, but I certainly hope not.

Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 25, 2012 12:16:52 AM | 25

Is this blog associated with mondoweiss? I hope not, since mondoweiss have several times run propaganda in support of the western terrorist mercenary assault on the people of Syria.

Posted by: вот так | Oct 25, 2012 12:28:46 AM | 26

prologue
***********
lots of folks swear by the atimes
but its s/n ratio is 50/50 at best
its narrative on china is particularly toxic
*outshining* the likes of wapo, washington times etc
is it *progressive* ?
u be the judge
**************************
Francesco Sisci stikes again,
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NJ25Ad02.html
as some readers have pointed out, anybody who lauds the fukus duopoly as a model of *democracy* must be smoking some damned good stuff.
in his previous *master piece*, the clown claimed that *President Barack Obama's administration - felt it had done enough to help China keep the regional peace and stability necessary for its continued economic growth, without even being noticed or thanked for it* [sic]
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/NJ10Ad01.html

i asked sisci what has he been smoking lately
no show !
not unexpected really, i've been persona non grata there since 2000 !

here's my rant
*******************************
China bashing at Atimes has reached surreal dimension with sisci’s “analsysis”.


First, he called China a “bully”
As reader Shuami has already pointed out, China has an exemplary record of border settlement with 12 countries , mostly military midgets except Russia.
In order to reach an amicable and speedy settlement, China often ceded the major part or even the whole of the disputed area to its tiny neighbours.
The remaining unresolved border disputes are with India , Bhutan.

Sisci would have us believe that a China which deferred to tiny Nepal, Burma, Laos etc would then choose to “bully” Amerikan allies Philippines and Japan, a military heavy weight in its own rights. Especially after Hillary and Panetta have announced in no uncertain terms that these countries are its “protectorates” !!

As for his claim that Amerika has been the “peace keeper” in Asia. [sic]
Its time to wake up and smell the coffee sir,
There’s a perfect blend offered by the Texan Hardy Campbell in Atimes
Have you sampled it yet ?

Here’s a real gem.
“President Barack Obama's administration - felt it had done enough to help China keep the regional peace and stability necessary for its continued economic growth, without even being noticed or thanked for it” [sic]

I almost choked on my coffee reading this.
shouldn’t Sisci’s “thesis” belong to the “satire” section Mr editor ?

for the kind of overt and covert attacks Amerika has inflicted on China since 1949.
In Tibet, xinjiang, Tienanmen, Africa, Afpak, South China sea, East China sea etc

http://tinyurl.com/8rsgfx7
http://tinyurl.com/97lp7yv
[just a sample, the tip of the iceberg]

China ought to send a big thank you note to Amerika, attached to the nose of a missile !

Ironically, Sisci should have chosen this metaphor…
“it would be delusional to think that with a few steps the US could fix the massive damage on the ground. It takes minutes to burn down a house, but it takes months or years to rebuild it”

ever heard about the world’s first fire Brigade ?
“In 70 BC, an ambitious minor politician and extremely wealthy man, Marcus Licinius Crassus, wanted to rule Rome. Just to give you an idea of what sort of man Crassus really was, he is credited with invention of the fire brigade. But in Crassus' version, his fire-fighting slaves would race to the scene of a burning building whereupon Crassus would offer to buy it on the spot for a tiny fraction of its worth. If the owner sold, Crassus' slaves would put out the fire. If the owner refused to sell, Crassus allowed the building to burn to the ground. By means of this device, Crassus eventually came to be the largest single private land holder in Rome”
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ARTICLE5/index.php

well, the 21 century’s Crassus is more enterprising.
When “business” is slow, uncle scam would send out his slaves to scout for prime properties and set fire to it. When the call comes in, he and his merry men would be there in a jiffy, all set to make another lucrative acquisition.
In a nutshell, That’s what your “peace keeper”, Amerika, has been doing since 1898.
Mr Sisci.
**********************************

persona non grata at atimes since 2000


Posted by: denk | Oct 25, 2012 1:30:12 AM | 27

How about we discuss the disturbing findings of a poll carried out in Israel by the Dialog Polling Group.

There were 503 respondents and the findings were published in Haaretz on Tuesday.

Here's a wee list of findings.

59% want preference in public jobs for Jews over Arabs

49% want the state to treat Jews better than Arabs

33% object to Israeli Arabs having the right to vote

69% object to giving Palestinians the right to vote if Israel annexes the West Bank

74% support separate roads for Jews and Palestinians in the West Bank

42% object to their children going to the same schools as Arabs

Some talking points here for sure. Is pointing this out anti-semitic?

Posted by: Billyboy | Oct 25, 2012 4:18:35 AM | 28

ToivoS sees "all religions as basically racist", and thinks it's anti-semitic to focus on Judaism in particular. But God chose the Jews. So God must be anti-semitic!

Posted by: Bob Jackson | Oct 25, 2012 4:33:16 AM | 29

It is coming, Howl-o-ween: Nor’easter, this is going to be a severe destructive storm as forecaster-ed in the Mayan Ninth wave. Now this storm can not come quicker to a more deserving people hope the destruction is as bad as what is happening in Syria and Libya.

Posted by: hans | Oct 25, 2012 4:33:36 AM | 30

Let me explain first why I am asking the following rethorical question. Human beings have a tendency to be tribal, racist, patriotic, jingoistic. It is our operating system. All we can do is to fight that in ourselves and where we happen to live. To fight it - or "discuss it" in other countries or cultures is futile. If you want to discuss the ethics and rationality of US foreign policy that is another issue.

Why not also discuss this Gallup poll

Majority of Americans Say Racism Against Blacks Widespread
More than three-quarters of blacks say racism against blacks is widespread

or this
Racial Discrimination in European Memberstates


"A poll in Germany in 1989 found that 79% of the population found there
were too many foreigners in Germany. Between 1990 and 1991 the
number of racist criminal offenses increased by 400 percent, with 900
attacks in the month of October 1991 alone. In 1990, Italy also saw an
increase in the number of violent racists attacks. In Spain, each year since
1985 there have been incidents in which parents have refused to send their
children to schools in which gypsy children are present, or have prevented
the latter from attending school."

And we have recently just found out that our secret service has been very closely linked to racist murderers ...

Posted by: somebody | Oct 25, 2012 4:43:34 AM | 31

@ bot tak,

Q: Is this blog [MoA] associated with mondoweiss?

R: No. Mondoweis has hooked up with Salon.

See: http://www.salon.com/2012/07/16/the_bias_in_israeli_courts_salpart/

and

On July 16, 2012, Salon announced that it will be featuring content from Mondoweiss.[17] @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salon_%28website%29

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Oct 25, 2012 5:11:55 AM | 32

@ Tovio

You seem to have some reading comprehension problems.

I've never posted at Mondoweiss, and I never said anything about being banned, so I don't know from where you got the idea that I was banned.
I've read it many times, because sometimes there's a lot to learned from the commenters - Hostage for instance (You? - not so much)

You claim that the purge is to do with "racism" yet for years MW has allowed, and still generally allows, the most vile racist crap imaginable to be posted by Zionists @ MW - and still will allow it after this purge.- comments by hophmi to name but one.

Witty was allowed posted proven lies for years, the man racked up a total of over 10,000 comments before Weiss finally decided to halt his deliberate trolling sometime early this year. But several other extremely racist, and frequently prone to lying, pro-Israeli commenters still post there - most of those people are there simply to shout "antisemitism" and anyone making a valid point, as a quick look at virtually any comment thread would confirm.

You say that you consider all religions racist, yet @ MW people are allowed a very wide margin to criticize Christianity and Islam - but similar criticism of Judaism is not allowed. That is real racism. One law for those that criticize Judaism and one for those that criticize other religions. Why? because Weiss has stated that his primary aim is "a conversation with Judaism" - even by his own statements it's clear that the plight of the Palestinians is not his main concern. Many people that read MW are not aware of that. They have been fooled into believing that Weiss is truly Pro-Palestinian - but he's not. He's merely out to protect Judaism from itself. The Palestinians come a distant second to that.

Tovio - "To focus on Judaism is, in my opinion, simply antisemitic"
It would be if that's what the problem was but the problem is actually that Weiss won't allow criticism of that Judaism while allowing criticism of other religions.

And now we know why - as Daniel Rich pointed out - Weiss is now trying to please Salon - obviously he's making a move for "Mainstream respectability" and doesn't want to upset the "respectability-apple-cart" by becoming the target for charges of "Antisemitism" no matter how baseless. It's a pointless excersize because the Zionist Racists will accuse him of it anyway - that's what they do.

They make baseless charges, operating on the principle that if you fling enough dirt some of it will stick. Pandering to these people is a waste of time - I'm certain Weiss will live to regret it

Pathetic.

The shameful manner in which Weiss and his Zio-lite-in-disguise cronies piled onto Greta Berlin was an embarrassment to any thinking rational person - it had all the hallmarks of a witchhunt.

Personally I'd be ashamed to be associated with any such site. Thankfully for me it's not something anyone can ever accuse me of - though it should be noted that it's almost the first thing you said about me.

MW is a disgrace, and anyone that considers themselves a supporter of the rights of the Palestinians should disassociate themselves from it immediately - Weiss, by his own admission, is concerned primarily with the effect of the IP conflict on Judaism - the Palestinians are but an afterthought

Palestinians don't need fair-weather friends like that. Weiss is obviously more concerned with not offending racist Jewish people in the US than he is with defending the rights of Palestinians - consequently he should change the focus of his site and stop pretending to be a defender of the rights of Palestinians, because he's not - he's primarily concerned with Judaism and should have the honesty to be state that clearly.


Tovio - "Obviously under another name, but nevertheless, it was just as well."

It was just as well I was banned - even though I wasn't?

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25, 2012 8:03:45 AM | 33

@ BillyBoy

Seems no one is interested because I guess that such racism is no surprise

Perhaps the Anti-Anti-Semites @ MW will allow you to comment on it there - but be sure not to say anything germane regarding the role of Traditionally insular separatist Judaism (the bulk of religious Judaism) in creating that level of racism is Israeli society, or you'll be banned forthwith.

Sure you'll be allowed to comment on it but you'll have to confine yourself to comments that wouldn't offend a racist Zionist - which would rather severely limit the scope of what one could say, would it not?

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25, 2012 8:09:55 AM | 34

the vast majority of the commentary seems to revolve are the differences between Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism - basically the Zionist racists are allowed to frame the debate because Weiss yearns to seen as "respectable" by his own Jewish community, which is composed mainly of supporters of Israel. Trying to kiss the asses of those people is a waste of time if you're not prepared to eviscerate your commentary of any meaningful criticism of the racist nature of Israelis and Judaism.

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25, 2012 8:15:21 AM | 35

Daniel Rich

Regarding mondowiess "R: No."

Good to hear. Mondoweiss are a hypocritical Israeli-American war promoting site. For instance: no mention of the Israeli attack on Sudan there.

----------------------------------------------------

New releases from Wikileaks on U.S. regulations of their torture camps:

http://wikileaks.org/Press-Release-The-Detainee.html

"Starting today, Thursday, 25th October 2012, WikiLeaks begins releasing the ’Detainee Policies’: more than 100 classified or otherwise restricted files from the United States Department of Defense covering the rules and procedures for detainees in U.S. military custody. Over the next month, WikiLeaks will release in chronological order the United States’ military detention policies followed for more than a decade. The documents include the Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) of detention camps in Iraq and Cuba, interrogation manuals and Fragmentary Orders (FRAGOs) of changes to detainee policies and procedures. A number of the ’Detainee Policies’ relate to Camp Bucca in Iraq, but there are also Department of Defense-wide policies and documents relating to Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay and European U.S. Army Prison facilities.

Among the first to be released is the foundation document for Guantanamo Bay ("Camp Delta") – the 2002 Camp Delta SOP manual. The release of the ’Detainee Policies’ marks three years of Camp Delta (Guantanamo Bay) SOP manuals released by WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks has now released the main Guantanamo Bay operating manuals for 2002, 2003 and 2004. The previously unpublished 2002 manual went on to shape successive years in the Guantanamo Bay prison complex and other U.S. military prisons around the world, such as Abu Ghraib. "This document is of significant historical importance. Guantanamo Bay has become the symbol for systematised human rights abuse in the West with good reason," said WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. "But how is it that WikiLeaks has now published three years of Guantanamo Bay operating procedures, but the rest of the world’s press combined has published none?"

Posted by: вот так | Oct 25, 2012 9:53:00 AM | 36

Bot Tak @ 36, thanks for the link. If we hear anything in the Corporate media on this issue, it will be a miracle. Government transparency, what a concept.

Posted by: ben | Oct 25, 2012 11:02:47 AM | 37

@ Zio Weiss

Don't know what agenda you are pushing (but coming on here with the name "Zio Weiss" and spending all your time attacking Mondoweiss, its obvious you have some grudge against them). In the past I've donated small amounts of money to Mondoweiss even though I haven't regularly read them the last few years. Some things to bear in mind:

1) Mondoweiss are close to the International Solidarity Movement and have done alot of work to popularise the ISM volunteers that go to Gaza/West Bank. Mondoweiss bring more exposure and eyeballs to the videos these activists produce than any other website especially within the US.

2) They have brought to light alot of war crime issues that would have otherwise gone uncommented on and unseen especially the Gaza attack in 2008 and the Flotilla Massacre.

3) It's their website. If they think that the focus the last few years on Jewish Identity and history has become stale and a problem to expanding readership they are right in changing tactics.

4) Mondoweiss is one of the more ballsy publications in the US. Like I said haven't read them much in the last few years but I remember reading articles talking about whether armed struggle is justified. There is a reason that the big Zionists like Jeffrey Goldberg attack Mondoweiss along with John Mearsheimer and Norman Finkelstein (though Finkelstein has recently caved in alot).

In short no matter what your grudge is against Mondoweiss, they are one of the good guys. They are far from perfect. But considering the state of most other US news sites they are bucking the trend big time. All this is to suggest you should go after the real Zionist publications and groups rather than sowing division amoung the Anti-Zionist groups.

Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Oct 25, 2012 11:10:40 AM | 38

Reminds me of my being knocked off The Atlantic recently because I countered Jeffery Goldberg's Zionist, probably racist arguments against Persians which involved my criticism of not only Goldberg but also Israel. I appealed to Steve Clemons whom I have blogged with for years, going back to Washington Note, since he's now an editor at The Atlantic, and a man whom I have defended against attacks many times on both Washington Note and The Atlantic, without a response from him. Perhaps it went in his junk mail and he didn't know about my being banned. It's possible, I guess.

Recently I commented at MW with the State Department document I have posted here on "the new anti-semitism" (defined as criticism of Israel) and got put down for it by MW, which I didn't understand.

So, to me, this is a serious matter regarding freedom of speech in favor of the Zionists. The problem mostly comes from Israel being (1) a dangerous, irresponsible country and (2) a blatant clearly self-identified Jewish State, and we aren't allowed to talk about it on some forums.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 25, 2012 11:12:03 AM | 39

Egypt becomes a diplomatic force in the Middle East.

Guardian, Oct 25, 2012
Israel-Gaza fighting subsides after Egyptian intervention

A deadly flare-up in fighting between Israel and Gaza's militant Hamas group has subsided after Egypt helped to restore calm before the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha.

On Tuesday night Israel responded to rocket fire from Gaza with air strikes. On Wednesday militants fired 80 rockets and mortars at southern Israel, and Israeli aircraft struck Gaza four times. In all, four Palestinians including three militants were killed in the fighting and two foreign workers in Israel were critically wounded.

The rocket and mortar fire stopped altogether overnight, though one projectile landed in southern Israel on Thursday morning, causing no damage. The military said it last struck Gaza on Wednesday morning. Eid al-Adha begins on Friday.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 25, 2012 11:27:34 AM | 40

@34, not quite. The invigilators at MWeiss are hit and miss. I've heard both sides complain they're being censored. True, Weiss seems to think Israel can be preserved, but I've read comments there calling for its "removal from the map".

Posted by: ruralito | Oct 25, 2012 11:41:06 AM | 41

" Weiss seems to think Israel can be preserved, but I've read comments there calling for its "removal from the map"."

I'm sure you have not

Mondo would not allow a comment calling for Isreal's "removal from the map" (using that phrase) to pass moderation

What you might have seen were comments referencing that fake quote in order to disprove it - or comments from Pro-Israel contributers stating that Achmadinijad actually said that, but I've never seen any Anti-Zionist Mondo contributer refer to that obviously false-statement other than to debunk it

Posted by: Star69 | Oct 25, 2012 11:52:21 AM | 42

President Barack Obama's administration - felt it had done enough to help China keep the regional peace and stability necessary for its continued economic growth, without even being noticed or thanked for it

My attention to symbols and details is a way of making fun. I’ll stop if told it is pesky or thread clogging.

Obama’s watch, worn much of the time since 2007, a chronograph given to him by the Secret Service, is made in China, with a Japanese movement. Plenty have noticed this and commented on it, in China and Switzerland.

http://www.onthedash.com/docs/obama.html

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 25, 2012 11:52:26 AM | 43

President Barack Obama's administration - felt it had done enough to help China keep the regional peace and stability necessary for its continued economic growth, without even being noticed or thanked for it

My attention to symbols and details is a way of making fun. I’ll stop if told it is pesky or thread clogging.

Obama’s watch, worn much of the time since 2007, a chronograph given to him by the Secret Service, is made in China, with a Japanese movement. Plenty have noticed this and commented on it, in China and Switzerland.

http://www.onthedash.com/docs/obama.html

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 25, 2012 11:52:27 AM | 44

President Barack Obama's administration - felt it had done enough to help China keep the regional peace and stability necessary for its continued economic growth, without even being noticed or thanked for it

My attention to symbols and details is a way of making fun. I’ll stop if told it is pesky or thread clogging.

Obama’s watch, worn much of the time since 2007, a chronograph given to him by the Secret Service, is made in China, with a Japanese movement. Plenty have noticed this and commented on it, in China and Switzerland.

http://www.onthedash.com/docs/obama.html

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 25, 2012 11:52:27 AM | 45

President Barack Obama's administration - felt it had done enough to help China keep the regional peace and stability necessary for its continued economic growth, without even being noticed or thanked for it

My attention to symbols and details is a way of making fun. I’ll stop if told it is pesky or thread clogging.

Obama’s watch, worn much of the time since 2007, a chronograph given to him by the Secret Service, is made in China, with a Japanese movement. Plenty have noticed this and commented on it, in China and Switzerland.

http://www.onthedash.com/docs/obama.html

Posted by: Noirette | Oct 25, 2012 11:52:28 AM | 46

Click "Post" just once, will you?

pretty please?

Posted by: Star69 | Oct 25, 2012 11:54:03 AM | 47

Former Goldman Sachs director gets 2 years for inside trades. This is what the judge had to say during the sentencing

US District Judge Jed Rakoff in New York cited Gupta’s “extraordinary” contribution to humanitarian and educational causes during his climb to the pinnacle of the US business world as the reason for rejecting the 10-year sentence sought by prosecutors.

So, if you give some pennies to the poor, it is OK to wreck the economy?

Posted by: hans | Oct 25, 2012 2:04:45 PM | 48

US deploys troops to Turkey amid Syria unrest: US General

The commanding general of the US Army Europe (USAREUR) says the Pentagon has recently sent a number of American soldiers to Turkey in a bid to assist Ankara in handling the spillover of the Syrian crisis.

"We have had a relatively few number of US Army Europe personnel in Turkey recently," Turkey’s Hurriyet newspaper quoted Lieutenant General Mark Phillip Hertling as saying.

The general added, "Some of that has been sharing intelligence."

Posted by: Star69 | Oct 25, 2012 3:08:01 PM | 49

@Zio-Weiss.

Yeah I know we should'nt be surprised. It's just that we are still expected to accept that Israel is the victim, always defending itself.

The question regarding annexing the West Bank is particularly sick.

Here in the UK we can't really discuss these issues in the MSN comment sections.

Comments on news concerning Israel have been virtually shut down on the Independent and I don't even go to the Guardian anymore, I started cutting my visits there when they perpetuated the Achmedinijad myth (Wipe Israel from the map).

Commenting on the situation in Syria is a no-no at the Independent too. More recently, the Indy have also started adding "the coastal enclave was seized by Hamas in 2005" (or words to that effect)to most stories concerning Gaza.

So the two most "liberal" news papers in the UK are towing the line now. I despair.


Posted by: Billyboy | Oct 25, 2012 3:23:26 PM | 50

and MW is joining them

It's trying to make itself more palatable to the 'mainstream'.

But the mainstream debate is framed by Zionist-watchdogs, ready at any minute to scream "Anti-Semite" at a moments notice at anyone daring to offer real analysis and ask smart questions about why things are that way.

So MW has decided to play by the rules set by the Zionists racists. And they will regret it - they'll be neutered as the rules change and the bounds of 'acceptable discourse' become narrower and narrower. You can't win by playing by the rules dictated by your opponent.

It's still not ok in most places to even mention the existence of the Jewish Lobby - it's not even ok to call it the "Jewish lobby" in most places, though there really isn't any other accurate way of describing it - the fools at MW want to pretend it's a "Zionist lobby", or an "Israel Lobby", so that no one can ever say "oh he said 'Jewish' : he must be an Anti-Semite'.

They want to cower behind some Jewish person, to follow their lead, so they fawn over Weiss because he occasional adopts a sane attitude to the Jewish influence on the US, but only occasionally. They hope that having a Jewish person as their leader will protect them from the dreaded curse of being singled out as an Anti-semite by the racists on the Zionist side.

But pretending it's a "zionist" or "Israeli" Lobby is nonsense, it's not.

It's a Jewish Lobby.

So, even if there's a few Shabbas-goyim sprinkled throughout, it's still a Jewish Lobby.

But don't say that at MW, or the MW-Anti-Anti-Semite brigade, masquerading as a Pro-Palestinian brigade, will start sharpening their knives. Because they feel the need to constantly validate that THEY are Anti-Zionists, and not Anti-Semites, and THAT is why they all participated in the crucifixion of Greta Berlin. It is also why every comment-section descends into a stupid repetitive discussion about how they are Anti-Zionists not Anti-semites.

Weiss facilitates all of that, maybe not deliberately, by letting the ultra-racists scream Anti-Semite all the time, which allows these racists to control the discourse.

And that is why I've never bothered to post there.

And all of the above is why the US liberal/Progressive Pro-Palestinian groups are the most useless bunch of political activists on the planet.

After years of effort they haven't gained an inch of ground against the Jewish Lobby. If anything they've lost ground dramatically

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25, 2012 4:23:06 PM | 51

Even here in Scotland, a wee, insignificant country in the international scene.

A student at St Andrews university was convicted of a "Racist breach of the peace" after he defiled the Israeli flag by putting his hands down his trousers, pulling out a pubic hair and rubbing it on the flag. He called Israel a terrorist state and called the flag a terrorist symbol. He also accused the owner of the flag, a Lithuanian Jew on a one year exchange from a New York university, a supporter of terrorism.

The Zionists have a long reach.

Posted by: Billyboy | Oct 25, 2012 4:56:12 PM | 52

It's much worse than you think.

Before the last election William Hague was chairman of something the Conservative Friends of Israel, which is one wing of the UK Jewish Lobby. He is now the current UK Foreign Secretary. Damned convenient that, for the UK Jewish attempts to protect Israelis from well-earned criticism.

Last time I checked at least 50% of Conservative MPs in the UK parliament were members of the UK Conservative Friends of Israel.

The other wing of the UK Jewish Lobby is naturally the Labour Friends of Israel (there's probably a LibDem Friends of Israel as well)

After Blair and Brown buggered-off to spend more time with their money, The UK Labour party held an election for a new leader - by the last week of that campaign there were only 2 candidates left in the running - by some miraculous twist of random fate, both had the surname Milliband, both Jewish, both supporters of Israel, actual brothers. Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Some democracy, no?

Vote for the Jewish Zionist on the left or the Jewish Zionist on the right,

They will occasionally pretend to voice some criticism, but only of the most outrageous excesses of the Jewish State, occasions when the pools of blood cannot simply just be ignored and some sort of statement is unavoidable, but every time they actually had an opportunity to vote for some sort of censure for Israel from the UK, they sided with the Jewish state.

All of this in a country where the Jewish population is estimated at approx 30,000. That is less than 1% of the whole UK population.

How does something like that happen?

Even the Paddies next door have a Jewish, and Zionist naturally, Minister for Justice. Their numbers there would not even amount to 2,000, if even that. Yet, from what I have been told, there has always been at least one Jewish MP in the Parliament there.

Again, how does that happen?

It's a more than fair question to ask, but ask it and you'll be accused of being a rabid foaming at the mouth Jew-hater, just dying for an opportunity to spark-up a few ovens.


"To learn who rules you simply find out who you are not allowed to Criticize"- Voltaire

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25, 2012 6:29:45 PM | 53

@ Zio-Weiss. For your information, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown & William Hague- and also David Cameron for that matter- are not Jewish.

You talk about Jewish Zionists but there are plenty of Zionists / pro-Zionists who are Christian and / or atheist.

And there are lots of Jewish people active in support of Palestinian rights.

It sounds like you wish to divert opposition to imperialism and zionism into a campaign against Jews. It would be a shame if you managed to utilise this website, which is the source or conduit of some very useful information, to promote such an ethnicly sectarian agenda.

Posted by: Noah | Oct 25, 2012 7:34:47 PM | 54

Learn to read, you dope

No one ever said that Tony Blair, Gordon Brown & William Hague- and also David Cameron were Jewish. BUT both the Millibands are.

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25, 2012 7:41:21 PM | 55

"To learn who rules you simply find out who you are not allowed to Criticize"- Voltaire

and along came #54 to provide evidence of the truth in Voltaires statement

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25, 2012 7:43:15 PM | 56

@ Noah #54
This may be a bogus comment. The Noah Tucker at the name link writes about Israel differently than the over-the-top language in #54 by "Noah."

Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 25, 2012 7:55:25 PM | 57

Noah says" "It would be a shame if you [Zio-Weiss] managed to utilise this website, which is the source or conduit of some very useful information, to promote such an ethnicly sectarian agenda."

Quite true even if Noah is not Noah Tucker. I was attracted to MoA because of b's many original discoveries. Nanodiamonds was the first. But also his unraveling of those staged and fabricated ytube videos produced by Syrian rebels "showing" the Syrian regime shelling civilian neighborhoods. There are some real old fashioned, right wing inspired, antisemites that wish to exploit Israeli crimes against the Palestinians for their own agenda.

Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 25, 2012 8:30:43 PM | 58

here's comes the MondoWeiss cavalry to the rescue, their carbines primed and loaded with bullets of pure self-righteous sanctimonious indignation to bravely defend the rights of downtrodden beleaguered and oppressed upper-class British Politicians to whore for Israel.

The world can rest easy now that they're on the hunt.

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25, 2012 8:45:17 PM | 59

I was attracted to MoA because of b's many original discoveries. Nanodiamonds was the first.

perish the thought that some people might think it interesting that the UK Foreign Sec took up his post immediately after resigning as Chair of the Conservative Friends of Israel.

Perish the thought that some people might think it interesting, and slightly unusual, that the race for leader of the UK Labour party came down to a photo-finish between two brothers that just happen to actually have blood-relatives living in an Israeli colony built land stolen form the Palestinians.

You brave indefatigable Mondo-NetWarriors are just proving my point, you realize that?

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25, 2012 8:54:58 PM | 60

British Prime Minister David Cameron, is also a member of the Conservative Friends of Israel.

But that's not interesting at all. Such information couldn't help anyone figure out anything, could it? No of course not.

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25, 2012 9:02:37 PM | 61

David Cameron, then newly elected leader of the Conservative Party, addressed the Conservative Friends of Israel annual business lunch on 30 January 2006, whose audience included half of the Conservative Parliamentary Party.

He stated "I am proud not just to be a Conservative, but a Conservative friend of Israel; and I am proud of the key role CFI plays within our Party. Israel is a democracy, a strong and proud democracy, in a region that is, we hope, making its first steps in that direction."

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 25, 2012 9:07:30 PM | 62

one of the greatest fictions alive today is a thing called 'american democracy'...youd have more luck finding a leprachaun!
NOW if Venezuela had refused or sought to arrest foreign election monitors, FUKUSA would have gone ballistic, called venezuela a dictatorship, aimed sanctions at and invaded Venezuela and installed a few puppets.....SO what do we say when we have the following!
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/american-democracy-international-election-monitors-to-be-arrested-in-texas/
will US be charged with undemocratic behaviour?

Posted by: brian | Oct 26, 2012 1:53:38 AM | 63

@ Zio-Weiss?,

Talking about the trails and tribulations of a web site is one thing, because it is a thing, but when you talk about Phil Weiss [here on MoA], he doesn't really have a chance to defend himself now, does he?

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Oct 26, 2012 4:57:12 AM | 64

@ Zio-Weiss?,

Have you ever been fortunate enough to see a dominant alpha wolf in action? If not, perhaps on TV? The way the rest of the group behaves, reminds me of what I see on both sides of the pond[UK and the US] It makes me sick to the stomach to have to watch this spineless groveling time and time again. One president wrote a letter:

Dear Mr. Prime Minister [Eshkol]:

It gives me great personal pleasure to extend congratulations as you assume your responsibilities as Prime Minister of Israel. You have our friendship and best wishes in your new tasks. It is on one of these that I am writing you at this time.

You are aware, I am sure, of the exchange which I had with Prime Minister Ben-Gurion concerning American visits to Israel’s nuclear facility at Dimona. Most recently, the Prime Minister wrote to me on May 27. His words reflected a most intense personal consideration of a problem that I know is not easy for your Government, as it is not for mine. We welcomed the former Prime Minister’s strong reaffirmation that Dimona will be devoted exclusively to peaceful purposes and the reaffirmation also of Israel’s willingness to permit periodic visits to Dimona.

I regret having to add to your burdens so soon after your assumption of office, but I feel the crucial importance of this problem necessitates my taking up with you at this early date certain further considerations, arising out of Mr. Ben-Gurion’s May 27 letter, as to the nature and scheduling of such visits.

I am sure you will agree that these visits should be as nearly as possible in accord with international standards, thereby resolving all doubts as to the peaceful intent of the Dimona project. As I wrote Mr. Ben-Gurion, this Government’s commitment to and support of Israel could be seriously jeopardized if it should be thought that we were unable to obtain reliable information on a subject as vital to the peace as the question of Israel’s effort in the nuclear field.

Therefore, I asked our scientists to review the alternative schedules of visits we and you had proposed. If Israel’s purposes are to be clear beyond reasonable doubt, I believe that the schedule which would best serve our common purposes would be a visit early this summer, another visit in June 1964, and thereafter at intervals of six months. I am sure that such a schedule should not cause you any more difficulty than that which Mr. Ben-Gurion proposed in his May 27 letter. It would be essential, and I understand that Mr. Ben-Gurion’s letter was in accord with this, that our scientist have access to all areas of the Dimona site and to any related part of the complex, such as fuel fabrication facilities or plutonium separation plant, and that sufficient time to be allotted for a thorough examination.

Knowing that you fully appreciate the truly vital significance of this matter to the future well-being of Israel, to the United States, and internationally, I am sure our carefully considered request will have your most sympathetic attention.

Sincerely,

John F. Kennedy

(July 5, 1963)

[(Israel State Archive, Jerusalem. For more information, reference Israel and the Bomb, by Avner Cohen, pages 153-162)]

We all know how that story ended. Back and to the left, back and to the left, back and to the left...

Bill Hicks about it @ http://www.youtube.com/watch%3fv=4_XnKjS3oWs

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Oct 26, 2012 5:11:56 AM | 65

the Fall of Josh Landis

Landis wrote this on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/joshua.landis1/posts/10151272531687110?notif_t=feed_comment_reply

leading to a resident of Allepo responding:
https://www.facebook.com/keviorkios/posts/10152268765150651

Kevork Elmassian · 140 subscribers
19 hours ago ·
Dear Joshua Landis,

You were always an academic and expert in the Syrian affairs, but you fall in the same trap that others did by highly depending on second hand sources. What you wrote today on your Facebook page was not only a joke but rather a clear indication of your real face and your real political affiliation.

You spread a false report that Aleppo has fallen in the hands of the NATO-Rebels allowing your friends to celebrate and spread the lies in most social media websites.

I'm from Aleppo, and yes the NATO-Rebels controlled some neighborhoods of Aleppo but Aleppo didn't and will never fall as long as the SYRIANS with their different political backgrounds are standing against the NATO-style democracy.

I promise you to celebrate in my own way on your wall when the Aleppi people kick these terrorists out of their city. The flags of the French Mandate will not return and the era of colonization is over.

Go and get a life man

Posted by: brian | Oct 26, 2012 7:54:33 AM | 66

Talking about the trails and tribulations of a web site is one thing, because it is a thing, but when you talk about Phil Weiss [here on MoA], he doesn't really have a chance to defend himself now, does he?

Daniel - it's the internet. It's not like I've convened a special meeting hidden away somewhere on a remote island in order to assure Mr Weiss' non-attendance or anything. Mr Weiss is just as capable as anyone here, I'm sure, of clicking on a link, reading what's written here and the filling in a reply at the bottom of this page and pressing the little "Post" button that everyone uses to post here.

BUT: if you think it should have been posted at MW then you have my permission to open an account @ MW and cross-post everything I have posted here on the subject.

But I suspect it would be a waste of time - I suspect, but admittedly I'm not certain, that it would not pass moderation there. But anyone here is welcome to prove me wrong on that score.

If Mr Weiss wishes to come here and reply I'll be only too happy to respectfully hear what man has to say, and engage him in conversation.

That would actually be far more than Mr Weiss did, before he lead a witch-hunt against Greta Berlin.

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 26, 2012 9:26:40 AM | 67

Daniel Rich - "We all know how that story ended. Back and to the left, back and to the left, back and to the left..."

thank you for that - that letter coupled with your statement quoted above, might actually help explain how so many British politicians feel the need to frequently and rather sycophantically express their alleged "great admiration and pride" for the Jewish State, by becoming members of various "Friends of Israel" organisations, might it not?

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 26, 2012 9:31:50 AM | 68

actually, Daniel, Weiss has stated that his main aim is to "have a conversation with Judaism" and that is his right, and I don't attack him for that. I'm merely attacking the erroneous perception that his main aim is Pro-Palestinian activism.

It occurs to me that I have been actually expressed a far harsher judgement against the majority of the commenters at MW, the Anti-Anti-Semite-Pretend-Pro-Palestinian crowd, than I have of Weiss himself.

As anyone can see, the resident-MOA MondoWeiss representative behaved exactly as I predicted an MW'er would behave - he immediately started chanting "Anti-Semite", I presume it is because I dared to use the word "Jewish" instead of some false description such as "Zionist" or "Israeli"

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 26, 2012 9:45:31 AM | 69

"Noah" @ 54 states "You talk about Jewish Zionists but there are plenty of Zionists / pro-Zionists who are Christian and / or atheist."

Plenty of Christian Zionists? hmmm. There certainly are, but the fact that they are managed by a cousin of Israeli Politician Ehud Barak kind of makes a farce of any counter-point you think you are making

Ehud Barak’s Cousin (Mis)Directs America’s Christian Zionists

By Maidhc Ó Cathail
October 22, 2012

In an attempt to direct attention away from their influence over U.S. Middle East policy, the predominantly Jewish pro-Israel lobby sometimes points to the passionate support of many Christian evangelicals — usually referred to as Christian Zionists — for the Jewish state. The largest of these Christian Zionist groups, with over one million members, is Christians United for Israel (CUFI); thereby, also making it the largest U.S.-based pro-Israel organization.

Most people familiar with the hardline pro-Israel group associate it with John Hagee, the theatrical San Antonio-based Christian Zionist pastor who heads CUFI. Less well known, however, is CUFI’s executive director.

Revealingly, the person directing America’s leading Christian Zionist group is not even a Christian.

In a Q & A with readers of Israel’s Haaretz newspaper some years ago, David Brog was asked if his theology required Israel to be in control of the entire Holy Land.

“Just to clarify,” Brog replied, “the evangelical theology I write about is not my theology. I’m Jewish.”

While the executive director of Christians United for Israel may not be Christian, there’s no questioning his pro-Israel credentials. When another reader asked if he was related to the current Israeli Defense Minister, Brog congratulated him on his perspicacity.

Explained the CUFI leader:

Former Prime Minister Ehud Barak is my cousin. He changed his last name from “Brog” to “Barak” during his time in the army. Given Barak’s illustrious career in the Israeli army and government, this is a relation of which I’m very proud.

Apparently, according to the resident-MOA representative of the MondoWeiss-Anti-Anti-Semitic-Pretend-Pro-Palestinian-Crowd, posting at #54 above, it is a sure sign of "anti-semitism" to dare to even point this out

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 26, 2012 10:37:08 AM | 70

correction

Last sentence should read:

Apparently, according to the resident-MOA representative of the MondoWeiss-Anti-Anti-Semitic-Pretend-Pro-Palestinian-Crowd, posting at #58 above, it is a sure sign of "anti-semitism" to dare to even point this out

Posted by: Zio-Weiss? | Oct 26, 2012 10:39:40 AM | 71

Has David Miliband Changed His Spots?

By Stuart Littlewood

Medical Aid for Palestinians (MAP) has been providing vital help to vulnerable Palestinian communities ever since the Sabra and Shatila massacre 30 years ago.

Eyebrows therefore shot up when MAP announced that former foreign secretary David Miliband will be speaking at its Annual Gala Fundraising Dinner tomorrow (Thursday) held in the posh Sheraton Park Lane Hotel.

It seems he'll be talking about his visit to the West Bank and Gaza.

Miliband will be forever remembered as the British foreign secretary who shamelessly groveled to Israel's gangsters for forgiveness for their running the risk of arrest if they set foot in London.

And he’ll be remembered for not having the guts to go visit Gaza, or even Iran while in office.

Back in 2009 Ehud Barak, Tzipi Livni and retired general Doron Almog, cancelled engagements in London for fear of being arrested. Israel complained bitterly

Miliband actually apologized to Livni and Israeli foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman for the arrest warrant issued against Livni. He promised Lieberman to begin working immediately to change the UK laws relating to 'universal jurisdiction'. He asked Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Justice Minister Jack Straw to find an urgent solution.

But the general election overtook him. Miliband’s groveling promise was echoed by his replacement, William Hague, who announced: "We have had good discussions with Israeli ministers on Universal Jurisdiction where the last government left us with an appalling situation where a politician like Mrs. Livni could be threatened with arrest on coming to the UK...”

He said it was "completely unacceptable… We have agreed in the coalition about putting it right, we will put it right through legislation... later this year and I phoned Mrs. Livni amongst others to tell her about that and received a very warm welcome for our proposals".

Never mind that British law was operating perfectly properly. The warrants were issued to answer well-founded charges. Under universal jurisdiction all states that are party to the Geneva Conventions are under a binding obligation to seek out those suspected of having committed grave breaches of the Conventions and bring them, regardless of nationality, to justice. There should be no hiding place for those suspected of crimes against humanity and war crimes. Applications could be made to a court for private arrest warrants, and this had been happening because the government itself was in the habit of shirking its duty under the Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention and dragging its feet until the bird has flown.

The beauty of the private warrant is that it can be issued speedily.

Bringing a private prosecution for a criminal offence is an ancient right in common law and, in the words of Lord Wilberforce, "a valuable constitutional safeguard against inertia or partiality on the part of the authority."

Lord Diplock, another respected Lord of Appeal, called it “a useful safeguard against capricious, corrupt or biased failure or refusal of those authorities to prosecute offenders against the criminal law".

Who can forget that Tzipi Livni, Israel’s former foreign minister, was largely responsible for the terror that brought unspeakable death and destruction to Gaza's civilians during the blitzkrieg known as Operation Cast Lead?

Showing no remorse and with the blood of 1,400 dead Gazans (including 320 children and 109 women) on her hands, and thousands more horribly maimed, Livni’s office issued a statement saying she was proud of Operation Cast Lead. And speaking later at a conference at Tel Aviv's Institute for Security Studies, she said: "I would today take the same decisions."

In a sane world no British government minister would undermine our justice system in order to make the UK a safe haven for the likes of her.

Yet Miliband's successor Hague said: "We cannot have a position where Israeli politicians feel they cannot visit this country. The situation is unsatisfactory [and] indefensible. It is absolutely my intention to act speedily."

He even tried to make Livni's monstrous crimes look good by claiming, as reported on the Conservative Friends of Israel website, that "the immediate trigger for this crisis [the war on Gaza] was the barrage of hundreds of rocket attacks against Israel on the expiry of the ceasefire or truce." It is well known that the ceasefire didn't expire. It was deliberately breached by an Israeli raid into Gaza that killed several Palestinians with the intention of provoking a response that would re-ignite the violence and provide an excuse to launch Operation Cast Lead, which the Israelis had been preparing for months.

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 26, 2012 12:05:10 PM | 72

Has David Miliband Changed His Spots?

By Stuart Littlewood

Medical Aid for Palestinians (MAP) has been providing vital help to vulnerable Palestinian communities ever since the Sabra and Shatila massacre 30 years ago.

Eyebrows therefore shot up when MAP announced that former foreign secretary David Miliband will be speaking at its Annual Gala Fundraising Dinner tomorrow (Thursday) held in the posh Sheraton Park Lane Hotel.

It seems he'll be talking about his visit to the West Bank and Gaza.

Miliband will be forever remembered as the British foreign secretary who shamelessly groveled to Israel's gangsters for forgiveness for their running the risk of arrest if they set foot in London.

And he’ll be remembered for not having the guts to go visit Gaza, or even Iran while in office.

Back in 2009 Ehud Barak, Tzipi Livni and retired general Doron Almog, cancelled engagements in London for fear of being arrested. Israel complained bitterly

Miliband actually apologized to Livni and Israeli foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman for the arrest warrant issued against Livni. He promised Lieberman to begin working immediately to change the UK laws relating to 'universal jurisdiction'. He asked Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Justice Minister Jack Straw to find an urgent solution.

But the general election overtook him. Miliband’s groveling promise was echoed by his replacement, William Hague, who announced: "We have had good discussions with Israeli ministers on Universal Jurisdiction where the last government left us with an appalling situation where a politician like Mrs. Livni could be threatened with arrest on coming to the UK...”

He said it was "completely unacceptable… We have agreed in the coalition about putting it right, we will put it right through legislation... later this year and I phoned Mrs. Livni amongst others to tell her about that and received a very warm welcome for our proposals".

Never mind that British law was operating perfectly properly. The warrants were issued to answer well-founded charges. Under universal jurisdiction all states that are party to the Geneva Conventions are under a binding obligation to seek out those suspected of having committed grave breaches of the Conventions and bring them, regardless of nationality, to justice. There should be no hiding place for those suspected of crimes against humanity and war crimes. Applications could be made to a court for private arrest warrants, and this had been happening because the government itself was in the habit of shirking its duty under the Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention and dragging its feet until the bird has flown.

The beauty of the private warrant is that it can be issued speedily.

Bringing a private prosecution for a criminal offence is an ancient right in common law and, in the words of Lord Wilberforce, "a valuable constitutional safeguard against inertia or partiality on the part of the authority."

Lord Diplock, another respected Lord of Appeal, called it “a useful safeguard against capricious, corrupt or biased failure or refusal of those authorities to prosecute offenders against the criminal law".

Who can forget that Tzipi Livni, Israel’s former foreign minister, was largely responsible for the terror that brought unspeakable death and destruction to Gaza's civilians during the blitzkrieg known as Operation Cast Lead?

Showing no remorse and with the blood of 1,400 dead Gazans (including 320 children and 109 women) on her hands, and thousands more horribly maimed, Livni’s office issued a statement saying she was proud of Operation Cast Lead. And speaking later at a conference at Tel Aviv's Institute for Security Studies, she said: "I would today take the same decisions."

In a sane world no British government minister would undermine our justice system in order to make the UK a safe haven for the likes of her.

Yet Miliband's successor Hague said: "We cannot have a position where Israeli politicians feel they cannot visit this country. The situation is unsatisfactory [and] indefensible. It is absolutely my intention to act speedily."

He even tried to make Livni's monstrous crimes look good by claiming, as reported on the Conservative Friends of Israel website, that "the immediate trigger for this crisis [the war on Gaza] was the barrage of hundreds of rocket attacks against Israel on the expiry of the ceasefire or truce." It is well known that the ceasefire didn't expire. It was deliberately breached by an Israeli raid into Gaza that killed several Palestinians with the intention of provoking a response that would re-ignite the violence and provide an excuse to launch Operation Cast Lead, which the Israelis had been preparing for months

Posted by: Ed_Miliband | Oct 26, 2012 12:11:11 PM | 73


Speech at Annual dinner of United Jewish Israel Appeal

Monday 15 October 2012

This is a written version of the speech given by David Cameron.

“With me, you have a Prime Minister whose belief in Israel is unbreakable and whose commitment to Israel’s security is non-negotiable.

I will always stand by the Jewish people. And it is humbling to be here tonight and to be called a friend.

Here in this room, we have many of the people who are determined to build the strongest possible relationship between Britain and Israel.

Posted by: TheJewishLobby | Oct 26, 2012 6:54:46 PM | 74

the broad reads the jap *all the news without fear n favor* times, she ought to know what her country has been doing to the okinawans, or chagosians etc., but she doesnt give a damn.
never mind amerika's serial aggressions, a supreme international crime under the nuremberg protocol, or the extra judicial killings in foreign countries.

but when uncle scam goaded his poodles in tokyo to poke the dragon's eye over the diaoyu isle, predictably provoking mass demo in china, she feel free to offer the chinese this advice, why dont u return tibet ?* [sic]

typical fukusans , these self righteous blowhards manage to turn any discussion involving china, whether is about econ, arts, environment, food, sex , whatever, into the tibet issue.
such well trained parrots, er , *patriots* ;-)

i offer her this councelling
*********************************************
dear lady
talking down to *lesser beings* seldom works, it always fall on deaf ears
a basic educational tenet says, *teach by good examples*
why not usa, that *shinning light on the hill*, show the way ?

may be, just may be, then the chinese would start to take u
seriously ?
****************************************************

no show !!
[persona non grata at jap *all the news without fear or favor* times., since 2000
:-( ]


Posted by: denk | Oct 26, 2012 11:11:42 PM | 75

@ Zio-Weiss?,

Q: ... might actually help explain how so many British politicians feel the need to frequently and rather sycophantically express their alleged "great admiration and pride" for the Jewish State, by becoming members of various "Friends of Israel" organisations, might it not?

R: Spineless politicians are held upright by the starch in their tailor-made shirts. The killing of
civilians [Rachel Corrie {US], Tom Hurndall[UK]], filmmakers [James Miller[UK]] and flotilla members [Furkan Dogan [US]] with impunity, were all meant to instill fear.

It started with the USS Liberty and it went all the way downhill from there. Again, spineless politicians, money and power whores and friends of the indefensible and unspeakable make me puke until nothing's left but hazardous acid.

Posted by: Daniel Rich | Oct 27, 2012 2:53:52 AM | 76

Here's an ad that appeared in the NYT that links Iran with Nukes and with spreading "terror" - http://i47.tinypic.com/1o95qo.jpg

obviously it's aim is to promote the idea of a devastating military attack on Iran because of the imaginary "threat", it is claimed repeatedly, that it poses.

At the bottom of the ad there are the logo's of the 17 organisations which are financing this ad.

All 17 of them are Jewish organisations.

Every single one of them.

I'll be called an Anti-Semite for pointing that out, but nonetheless it's undeniable that all 17 organisations sponsoring this ad calling for "action" against Iran are Jewish Organisations.

So while some of the commenters here, those quite incapable-of-honesty, would like to be all politically-correct (and completely inaccurate) and continue to pretend it's a "Zionist Lobby" or an "Israeli Lobby" the sad truth is that it's clearly a Jewish Lobby

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27, 2012 2:35:02 PM | 77

Zio-Weiss says in comment 55:

"Learn to read, you dope
No one ever said that Tony Blair, Gordon Brown & William Hague- and also David Cameron were Jewish. BUT both the Millibands are."

The Miliband brothers, who are ethnicly Jewish, are no more and no less pro-Zionist than the UK political leaders who are Christians.

Zio-Weiss, it is clear that you have a vile agenda, which is one of promoting ethnic hostility; and you are here in order to try to sidetrack opposition to Zionism and imperialism into this dead end.

Btw, I remarked that there are many Jewish people active in support of Palestinian rights. It just so happens that Marion Kozak, who is the mother of Dave & Ed Milliband, is one of them.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=189317

http://jfjfp.com/?page_id=9


Posted by: Noah | Oct 27, 2012 2:58:46 PM | 78

@ Don Bacon #57: " This may be a bogus comment..."

If you doubt that I'm the author of the articles attributed to me at 21st Century Socialism, you are welcome to
email me at the address given on the 'about us' section of the website.

BTW, here are a couple of my articles, one on the attack on Libya and the other on Israel's nuclear weapons:


http://21stcenturysocialism.com/article/death_by_humanitarianism_02056.html


http://21stcenturysocialism.com/article/israel_and_the_west_a_nuclear_romance_01922.html

Posted by: Noah | Oct 27, 2012 3:28:10 PM | 79

and yet there are 17 clearly Jewish Organisations with their logos listed on that ad promoting an attack on Iran - even someone as blind as you cannot deny that.

The existence of a few Jewish people that claim to be in favour of Palestinian rights means fuck all.

There are approx 15 to 20 million people claiming to be Jewish at present, worldwide.

What percentage of those do you think are actually truly in favour of Palestinian rights?? To the point where they would be firmly in favour of a new paradigm that would entail serious alteration in the way the Jewish state behaves?

What percentage of those 15 to 20 million do NOT support the existence of Israel in it's current form ( a racist apartheid Fascist military-fetishist enclave) or something very similar?

1%?
2%?
5%?


The existence of a mere few small % of Jewish people that might be said to support Palestinian rights (only might btw) doesn't cancel out the other 90-95% that clearly support Israel, no matter what it does.

That is where the vast bulk of the Jewish people are right now - firmly behind Israel, right or wrong - no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.

When both the Miliband's were in Gov't either or both of them could have done something to effect the situation, but both of them chose not to - every time, when push came to shove, on most occasions they either stayed silent or openly supported Israel. Any criticism that may ever have voiced was in the mildest terms possible.

The fact that the mum pretends to care about palestinians just looks like "Good Cop - Bad Cop". And who cares what their mother claims anyway - it's what these two did when Labour was in power that counts - and as anyone can see they did nothing to help Palestinians - not one thing.

In fact as can be seen from posts above, David Miliband actually went out of his was to help Jewish Israeli War Criminals evade Justice.

Whereas the most Ed Miliband could muster when Israel murdered tons of children in Gaza was a statement saying it was "wrong". No call for any action to be taken to punish Israel for it "Wrong"-ness though. None at all. No sanctions. Nothing.

Well whoop-de-doo. "Wrong" eh? That'd put the wind up those Israeli fascists alright - bet they all had sleepless nights overt THAT cutting remark.

So you can stick your objections up your ass. No one's interested anymore - the tide has turned. You people have so debased the phrase "Anti-Semitism" that is has little force anymore.


And Weiss ain't much better - despite all his public displays of soul-searching, he still only really cares about Jews and Judaism. He's said as much several times. Any sympathy he expresses for the Palestinians is but mere by-product of his concerns for Judaism.

In 2011 he said in an interview :

“I believe all people act out of self-interest. And Jews who define themselves at some level as Jews -- like myself for instance -- are concerned with a Jewish self-interest. . . . Which in my case is: an end to Zionism. A theory of political life based on altruism or concern for victims purely is doomed to fail.”


So it's clear that Weiss is primarily Anti-Zionist NOT Pro-Palestinian - just as Chomsky, and many other like him, is primarily Anti-Zionist NOT Pro-Palestinian, so stop pretending otherwise.

So when anyone tries to claim that Weiss cares for the Palestinians remember that what he has actually said on the subject is :

""I believe all people act out of self-interest. and Jews ..like myself -- are concerned with a Jewish self-interest.”

When asked did he consider himself "Tribal" his answer was “Yes I do at some level."

In this he's barely distinguishable from the Zionists themselves - they care about no one but their own tribe

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27, 2012 3:52:41 PM | 80

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27, 2012 3:52:41 PM | 80
What is the fuss about? Are Palestinians less tribal than Jewish Israelis? Or is the issue rather how different tribes can get a win win situation and live in peace?

Posted by: somebody | Oct 27, 2012 4:02:02 PM | 81

@ 77. " all politically-correct (and completely inaccurate) and continue to pretend it's a "Zionist Lobby" or an "Israeli Lobby" the sad truth is that it's clearly a Jewish Lobby"

Rubbish.

The facts of non-Jewish imperialist support for Israel & zionism are as clear as day, though no doubt of no interest to you.

There is 'one race, the human race' as we used to say.

Posted by: Noah | Oct 27, 2012 4:04:52 PM | 82

"The Miliband brothers, who are ethnicly Jewish, are no more and no less pro-Zionist than the UK political leaders who are Christians. "

Well the whole point is that the British Political Establishment is clearly bought and paid for by the UK's Jewish Lobby.

Your statement above actually proves it.

In the case of the Miliband's they don't have to be openly Pro-Zionist - but the evidence shows that they certainly are "Pro-Jewish-Tribe", often to the detriment the UK which is what they are supposed to be concerned with, being ostensibly "British".

Evidence shows that they have no concern for the rights of any other "tribe", regardless of the moral or ethical merits, and at every opportunity they get they seek to promote the interests of their own "tribe".

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27, 2012 4:08:39 PM | 83

"There is 'one race, the human race' as we used to say. "

and yet Weiss and both the Miliband's, like most Jewish Politicians, are clearly "Tribal"

The only UK politician that loudly condemned the Gaza attack was Greville Janner. No other UK Jewish politician spoke up and clearly condemned the Israeli attack in the sort of language that it merited.

The rest of them, predictably, sided with the "tribe".

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27, 2012 4:14:36 PM | 84

"There is 'one race, the human race' as we used to say."

Who is "we"?

You, Phil Weiss and the Milibands?

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27, 2012 4:15:54 PM | 85

Ed Miliband: "The only UK politician that loudly condemned the Gaza attack was Greville Janner"

It seems you are a bit confused. The name of the UK politician who condemned the Israeli attack on Gaza is Gerald Kaufman. He compared the Israeli attack to the Nazi atrocities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8

Gerald Kaufman is a UK Jewish politician. His views are better and clearer than those of most Christian or atheist politicians.


Posted by: Noah | Oct 27, 2012 4:45:51 PM | 86

"It seems you are a bit confused">

getting one name incorrect doesn't make any difference - I still stated that only one UK Jewish Politician stood up and said what needed to be said - and I was right - only ONE did, Whether his name is Janner or Kaufmann doesn't really matter.

Most of the other non-Jewish politicians were either already bought-off by the UK Jewish Lobby or were too scared of being accused of "Anti-Semitism", by the Tribe's attack-dogs in the UK media, of which there are an astoundingly disproportionate number by the way.

But the point still stands - ALL the other UK Jewish Politicians chose to side with "The Tribe".

But I realise you latched onto that slight mis-statement of mine, because, other than screaming "Anti-Semite", you haven't got any arguments to counter anything else I said. So far, other than latching onto on small instance of me incorrectly naming the ONE UK Jewish Politician to properly condemn Israel, you have not managed to refute so much as one thing I have said.

So far most of your replies are just different ways of screaming "anti-Semite" to disguise the fact that you have no other reply. Essentially your whole counter-argument is that merely making patently true statements is simply "Anti-Semitic".

Stick it up your ass - like Weiss, you're nothing by an enabler of the Zionists masquerading as someone that gives a fuck about the Palestinians - but it's clear from your own actions that you're far more concerned with defending the tribe

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27, 2012 5:21:22 PM | 87

I asked you some simple questions earlier which of course you have chosen to ignore, so I'll ask again, and maybe you'll have the decency to answer.

Given that there are approx 15 to 20 million people claiming to be Jewish at present, worldwide:

What percentage of those do you think are actually truly in favour of Palestinian rights?? To the point where they would be firmly in favour of a new paradigm that would entail serious alteration in the way the Jewish state behaves?

What percentage of those 15 to 20 million do NOT support the existence of Israel in it's current form ( a racist apartheid Fascist military-fetishist enclave) or something very similar?

1%?
2%?
5%?

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27, 2012 5:25:05 PM | 88

Kaufmann has in the past said that the Conservative Party is "too close" to Israel. In 2010, Kaufman said that those parts of the British Conservative party not controlled by Lord Ashcroft are controlled by "right-wing Jewish millionaires".

Is Kaufmann an "anti-Semite" then, for saying that? Because according to your arguments he would have to be.

If you're not prepared to label Gerald Kaufmann an "Anti-Semite" then how, unless you are racist yourself, could you justify calling an "anti-Semite" anyone that says something similar?

If it's ok for Kaufmann to say it then why is it not ok for others? The only reason I can think of, would be that you seem to think that it's ok for a Jewish person to say such a thing, but not for a non-Jewish person to say so.

And THAT would make YOU the racist, not me.

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27, 2012 5:54:26 PM | 89

Re 81

What is the fuss about? Are Palestinians less tribal than Jewish Israelis?

I wonder at your innocence. I would have thought it self-evident that the Palestinians are not particularly "tribal".

Posted by: alexno | Oct 27, 2012 6:16:00 PM | 90

I wonder at your innocence.

understatement of the year ;-)

Posted by: Star69 | Oct 27, 2012 6:18:07 PM | 91

re 89

Is Kaufmann an "anti-Semite" then, for saying that? Because according to your arguments he would have to be.

A Jew who offends against the interests of Israel is not called an anti-Semite, but a "self-hating Jew". Even more a sense of offending against the tribe.

Posted by: alexno | Oct 27, 2012 6:22:17 PM | 92

test, to see if I've provoked italics without end.

Posted by: alexno | Oct 27, 2012 6:26:55 PM | 93

In 92, the second para is me. The first a quote from 89.

Posted by: alexno | Oct 27, 2012 6:29:31 PM | 94

Noah @ 86 stated:

Gerald Kaufman is a UK Jewish politician. His views are better and clearer than those of most Christian or atheist politicians.

Obviously "Noah" thinks Kaufmann is not any sort of Anti-Semite, not "Anti-Jewish" in any way, otherwise it seems very unlikely that he would have claimed that Kaufmann espouses "better and clearer" views than others.

Despite what words might be used by Jewish people to attack Jewish people, Kaufmann's statement uses the phrase "Jewish Billionaires" not "Zionist Billionaires" or "Pro-Israel Billionaires".

"Noah" has attacked me for using the phrase "Jewish Lobby" instead of something more palatable to his delicate little sensibilities, such as "Zionist" or "Pro-Israel".

So if he is honest, either "Noah" now has to claim, despite his earlier statement in favour of Kaufmann's "better and clearer" views, that Kaufmann is in fact clearly an "Anti-Semite"

OR

"Noah" will have shown himself for the double-standard "one law for Jewish people, and another law for Non-Jewish people" racist that I suspected him to be, all along.

Posted by: Ed Miliband | Oct 27, 2012 6:40:59 PM | 95

zio: Weiss has stated that his main aim is to "have a conversation with Judaism"

well this is instructive. weiss is secular. if he wanted to have a conversation with judaism he's going about it in a rather roundabout way since he doesn't write about judaism. not that i have ever observed. you don't happen to have a source for your quote do you?


#80: The existence of a few Jewish people that claim to be in favour of Palestinian rights means fuck all.

hmm. as opposed to your deep passionate support for the palestinian people no doubt, which means what? mana from heaven?

#83: the whole point is that the British Political Establishment is clearly bought and paid for by the UK's Jewish Lobby.

well perhaps you could explain to us why the UK is forbidding the US from launching a preemptively attack on iran from british territory. wouldn't that seem counterproductive if one was working for israel lobby?

#87 Stick it up your ass - like Weiss, you're nothing by an enabler of the Zionists masquerading as someone that gives a fuck about the Palestinians - but it's clear from your own actions that you're far more concerned with defending the tribe

someone seems a tab obsessed.

Posted by: annie | Oct 28, 2012 9:04:02 AM | 96

'Ed Miliband' / 'zio-weiss' #80: "The existence of a few Jewish people that claim to be in favour of Palestinian rights means fuck all."

I disagree totally. I think it means quite a lot.

As when Jews along with many millions of others were annihilated by the Nazi German government, not all non-Jewish Germans agreed with that programme. And when the white South African Apartheid regime was in operation, a significant group of whites joined the black people in the ANC.

And in the USA, where black people were excluded from democracy in the South of the country until quite recently in historical terms- did it mean "fuck all" that there were white people involved and supporting their struggle?


Posted by: Noah | Oct 28, 2012 3:15:17 PM | 97

Cryptome provides a partial list (photo-copies) of the list of alleged Greek tax-evaders with Swiss bank accounts published in Hot Docs and reported
in the NYTimes. Appropriate mitigating observations on the legality of such accounts have been published in Hot Docs and innocent parties have recourse to law-suits, so the arrest of Kostas Vaxevanis seems out of proportion to the alleged crime. It would seem more appropriate to give him a medal of honor, and to hope for similar revelations in other lands.

Posted by: Hannah K. O'Luthon | Oct 29, 2012 12:18:10 PM | 98

a two-fer, from Stuart Littlewood:

Palestinians, Beware False Friends

By Stuart Littlewood

A press release has just arrived in my inbox from the Palestinian Mission UK proudly proclaiming Ambassador Hassassian’s jaunt to the Labour Friends of Palestine Gala Dinner where he was keynote speaker alongside Labour Party leader Ed Miliband.

Ed of course is the brother of David Miliband, a Blair protégé and foreign secretary under the Brown government and certainly no friend of the Palestinian people.

Ed, also a Blair-Brown protégé, had already declared that Labour would be “Israel’s friend in good times and bad”

-----

Calling (Btitish) Ministers to Account, or Trying To

(LONDON) - Here's an easy test of our much vaunted western democracy... you know, the kind we want to impose on everyone else, especially those nasty uncivilised regimes in the Middle East that go around attacking other nations instead of quietly minding their own business like the US and Britain.

Every so often MPs at Westminster are allowed to put Parliamentary Questions to ministers. On Tuesday of this week there is a session for questions to Foreign Office ministers, and I have been told by several people that they are asking their MP to challenge ministers about the continuing injustice in Palestine.

I hope they will also suggest questions about the sabre-rattling and bully-boy tactics that are designed to hurt the Iranian people economically, for no good reason any of us can see.

Whether or not MPs will agree to table those questions remains to be seen. And whether or not they receive an intelligent reply is anyone's guess. Let's see if democracy works to the extent of our servants in Parliament respond at least in word if not action to ordinary peoples' concerns.

So I've written to my MP Henry Bellingham, who recently lost his job as a Foreign Office minister, asking him to kindly table these two written questions (which require written answers)...

Question 1.
Israel refuses (unlike Iran) to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and open its nuclear programme to international inspection. It has not signed the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention. It has signed but not ratified the Comprehensive Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty, similarly the Chemical Weapons Convention. The Israeli regime continues to defy international law and UN resolutions with its illegal occupation, ongoing confiscation of Palestinian lands, destruction of homes, arrest and imprisonment of civilians, its inhuman blockade of Gaza and many other crimes against humanity - including lethal assaults on peaceful shipping on the high seas bringing humanitarian aid. Instead of rewarding Israel with pledges of everlasting protection and special trade agreements, should not Britain and the international community now discharge their obligation to make Israel accountable?
Question 2.
As Iran presents no existential threat to the UK why has HMG [Her Majesty's Government]not made friends and developed trade with that country - the positive way to influence others - instead of embarking on a plan of economic warfare that is bound to harm its innocent population and needlessly make us more enemies? And how many visits have been made to Iran by senior British ministers in the 33 years since the Islamic Revolution of 1979? What is HMG now doing to re-establish high-level direct diplomatic links?

If I get a reply I'll let you know.

Stuart Littlewood

28 October 2012

--
don't hold your breath on that one, Stu

Posted by: Star69 | Oct 30, 2012 1:58:50 PM | 99

@ annie #96

"well this is instructive. weiss is secular. if he wanted to have a conversation with judaism he's going about it in a rather roundabout way since he doesn't write about judaism. not that i have ever observed. you don't happen to have a source for your quote do you?"

Annie, that's completely untrue, and I'm surprised that you'd even think you'd get away with such a claim.

To show how untrue it is is in fact quite easy.

Claiming that "Weiss is secular" and that "Judaism" somehow refers exclusively to "Religious Jews" is a bizarre statement from someone that acts as a moderator at MondoWeiss and who really should know better.

All one has to do is simply look at a definition of the word "Judaism":

ju·da·ism/ˈjo͞odēˌizəm/
Noun:

1) The monotheistic religion of the Jews, based on the laws revealed to Moses and recorded in the Torah (supplemented by the rabbinical...
2) The Jews collectively.

Anyone can see that "Judaism" does not refer exclusively to "Religious Jews".

Posted by: Star69 | Oct 30, 2012 2:09:20 PM | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.

 

Site Meter