October 05, 2012
Erdogan Made To Step Back From The Brink
Some mortars fell
on Turkish ground and killed five people. It is unknown who has launched those mortars.
The Turkish prime minister Erdogan used the event to get himself war powers and ordered some limited artillery strikes onto Syrian positions.
He also, again, tried to get NATO to back up his urge to escalate the conflict in Syria. NATO smelled a rat and did not agree with Erdogan. He was ordered to deescalate. Big anti-war demonstrations in Istanbul helped to convey the message.
Erdogan then sent out his deputy to declare that Syria had admitted that it fired the mortars and apologized. This was widely reported:
Syria has admitted it was responsible for a shelling that killed five civilians on Turkish soil and apologised, Turkey's deputy prime minister said today.
"The Syrian side has admitted what it did and apologised," Besir Atalay told reporters.
But as the Syrian ambassador to the UN Bashar al-Jaafari made absolutely clear
(video) there was neither a Syrian admittance of guilt nor was there any apology. Syria only send condolences to the Turkish people and promised to investigate the case.
When the Syrian army shot down a Turkish jet that had crossed into Syrian air space it immediately took responsibility for it and apologized. The Syrian behavior in this case is different.
If this incident was a false flag operation, which seems more and more likely, it only achieved a part of what it was supposed to achieve. Erdogan did get the Turkish parliament to give him war powers. But the more important backing from NATO did not come through.
His deputy prime minister Besir Atalay's lie about the Syrian "apology" had the purpose to allow Erdogan to step back from the brink he had walked up to. There will be, for now, no further escalation of the war the U.S., Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar are waging against Syria.
Posted by b on October 5, 2012 at 02:16 AM | Permalink
I am a bit confused. There seems to be a misunderstanding between Russian and Syrian officials. All the while Russia blocked a UN-resolution condemning Syria for its mortar attack, Lavrov later on said, the fact the SyGov had apologized is a significant message. So...what is going on?
Posted by: kalimbour | Oct 5, 2012 3:48:32 AM | 1
Turkey's argument that Syria violated her sovereignty makes them look/sound really stupid..This is the country that's home to fsa rebels..
I think there'll come a time when Turks will become fed up and call for the expulsion of all "refugees" from their soil..Already, the "refugees" in Hatay are causing so much trouble for the local people.The sh*t might very well hit the fan soon.
If the fsa's goal was to get Turkey to attack, they failed and from now on, people will be even more suspicious of their claims..The 'Pakistanization' of Turkey is now in progress. ;)
Posted by: Zico | Oct 5, 2012 4:10:33 AM | 2
Erdogan is nothing but religious bigot that was brought into power by none other than Neocons even back when he was the mayor of Istanbul circa late 1990s.
Then, he got into power and started to change the secular foundations of the secular Turkey, throwing seculars (the Army, opposition politicians, journalists, academicians) under faux-forged documentations..
Now, he wants to move escalate into territory thanks to his Neoottoman wet dreams..
Posted by: David | Oct 5, 2012 11:07:21 AM | 3
confusing only to those who dont see clearly...the perpetraitors? the FSA
Posted by: brian | Oct 5, 2012 11:20:10 AM | 5
An interesting piece to read about infighting between the rebels as they sit in Turkey and plan the attack on al-Raqqa: Syria’s Up-and-Coming Rebels: Who Are the Farouq Brigades?
All it took was one question for the night’s schedule to be upended. “Who is now in control of the border post?” the civilian activist, Mohammad, asked Abu Ahmad. “The Farouq Brigades,” Abu Ahmad said, referring to the one of the largest, best organized and most well-known of Syria’s many military brigades.
Mohammad and his three companions exchanged exasperated glances.“Why did you all cede control to them? When did this happen? They aren’t even from here!” Mohammad said.
“We don’t want problems between revolutionaries now,” Abu Ahmad replied. “We don’t want to take them on. They said they are in control.”
And with that, just minutes after they arrived, the four men abruptly got up and left. There was nothing to discuss, they decided, giventhat the post was in the Farouq’s hands. “We as the sons of the area don’t want anyone to control the fate of our area,” Mohammad said. “The crossing is for everyone, for all the brigades that participated in its liberation, not for one group of outsiders.”
Posted by: b | Oct 5, 2012 11:47:17 AM | 6
If this gets confirmed then the Syrian government is doing something smart here.
Syria keeping military 10 km away from Turkish border, report says
The Syrian administration has told its military to keep aircraft at least 10 kilometers away from the Turkish border and to avoid artillery fire near the border one day after the Turkish government received a mandate from Parliament for military operations in foreign countries, a news report said on Friday.
Turkey's ntvmsnbc.com news portal claimed, citing “reliable sources,” that the Syrian regime had ordered all kinds of military aircraft, including warplanes and helicopters, to stay at least 10 kilometers from the Turkish border. The report also said a number of Syrian warplanes which approached within 10 kilometers of the Turkish border despite this warning had been ordered to turn back immediately by Syrian authorities.
This would not change the balance of force but would prevent a new false flag attack. After the cities are cleaned up the Syrian government can reclaim the border zone.
Posted by: b | Oct 5, 2012 11:50:35 AM | 7
Andrew Simmons from Al Jazeera Eng. did an Ask-me-Anything on *Reddit*
(Obama did one too. That was a bust! He - or his deputy - checked out pronto.)
I AM SORRY BUT THE SITUATION ON THE TURKISH BORDER WITH SYRIA HAS BECOME WORSE. THE FIRST ATTACK BY SYRIA WHICH HAS KILLED TURKISH NATIONALS AND THEY INCLUDE CHILDREN. TURKISH FOREIGN MINISTER IN PHONE CONTACT WITH UN SEC GEN BAN KI MOON.
(caps not mine)
No secret info (etc.), pretty much what you’d expect, but illustrate how mainstream news is creeping into wider spaces. How journalists view their work, etc.
I reckon these are just border troubles that won't escalate. In any case Turkey will not act forcibly or attack without international (US) support. imho.
Posted by: Noirette | Oct 5, 2012 12:11:06 PM | 8
@7 Agree the pull back of air forces is a smart move. Now watch the media spin it as a rebel victory.
Posted by: dh | Oct 5, 2012 12:27:04 PM | 9
Turkish activists: NATO radar [at Kurecik] aimed at protecting Israel
Let us assume that Iran makes a token attack on Iran. Then, Iran would have to attack the Kurecik radar before firing its missiles - Iranian side has made this point quite clear to Turkey in various official statements. Hence, it is concluded that Israel has the power to decide the timing of a Iran-Turkey war.
Now that Turkish PM has the authority of "sending the Turkish Armed Forces to foreign countries" - essentially a blank cheque, the PM can retaliate to an attack to Kurecik radar without consulting to the parliament.
This, I believe is the direction that the events are evolving into...
Posted by: o1136130 | Oct 5, 2012 12:28:15 PM | 10
I mean Israel makes a token attack on Iran.
Posted by: o1136130 | Oct 5, 2012 12:29:45 PM | 11
It surprises me that Russia would have agreed with the UNSC statement as it explicitly blames Syria for the shelling when there seems to be no proof of that.
Security Council Press Statement on Shelling of Turkish Town by Syrian Forces - Oct 4, 2012
The following Security Council press statement was issued today by Council President Gert Rosenthal (Guatemala):
The members of the Security Council condemned in the strongest terms the shelling by the Syrian armed forces of the Turkish town of Akcakale, which resulted in the deaths of five civilians, all of whom were women and children, as well as a number of injuries. The members of the Security Council expressed their sincere condolences to the families of the victims and to the Government and people of Turkey.
Inner City Press
The members of the Security Council underscored that this incident highlighted the grave impact the crisis in Syria has on the security of its neighbours and on regional peace and stability. The members of the Council demanded that such violations of international law stop immediately and are not repeated. The members of the Security Council called on the Syrian Government to fully respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of its neighbours.
The members of the Security Council called for restraint.
UNITED NATIONS, October 4 -- On the UN Security Council's press statement on Akcakale in Turkey, what changed in the 22 hours between the silence procedure being broken by Russia and the statement's read-out by Council President Gert Rosenthal on Thursday evening?
Mostly the inserting of nine final words: "The members of the Security Council called for restraint."
Inner City Press asked Ambassador Rosenthal, once he had read out the statement, whether it would be fair to read this as a call for restraint by Turkey as well, or just Syria.
"Both," Rosenthal said. He confirmed that a separate draft press statement on bombings in Aleppo is under the Council's "silence procedure" until 10 am on Friday. Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin told the press that one Council member had extended silence until then. But would it be further extended?
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 5, 2012 12:40:42 PM | 12
The Turkish prime minister Erdogan used the event to get himself war powers and ordered some limited artillery strikes onto Syrian positions.
That seems to have hit the nail on the head, & Erdogan went a long way to solidifying his position as unquestioned ruler with this one.
A close eye needs to be put on what he's doing locally with these new powers...
He's been looking to force constitutional changes for awhile & limit the independance of the judiciary. Other changes he's interested in is how to interfere more directly in how the military is run, criminalizing opposition activities & further curtailing the independance of the media.
Posted by: KenM | Oct 5, 2012 1:01:39 PM | 13
@nikon #14 -- old news
Al Jazeera, Oct 19, 2011
At least 20 soldiers have been killed in simultaneous attacks on police and military installations in southeastern Turkey, according to local reports. . . .Al Jazeera’s Anita McNaught, reporting from Istanbul, said the latest attacks appear to be a response to the Turkish military’s announcement on September 30 of the re-establishing of ‘temporary security zones’ in 15 separate locations across the southeast where no civilians are allowed to go.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 5, 2012 2:04:09 PM | 15
The Security council can do nothing. They can call for whatever they like but basically should have the honesty to shut up. A most dreary, dismaying, painful position.
Posted by: Noirette | Oct 5, 2012 2:37:55 PM | 16
meant to add:
In a way the war in Syria exemplifies some of the last, dying throes of the Cold War, with the US-Nato etc controlled blocks in oppo with the ex - UUSR / partners, which make it look like a proxy war, which it is in a way.
But the situation in the country itself is outside, beyond all that.
Posted by: Noirette | Oct 5, 2012 2:47:20 PM | 17
Change of strategy: Kurds to opt for territorial dominance in Turkey
PKK stuns Turkey with new shock strategy designed to press Ankara into talks for autonomy rather than grab military victory.
Posted by: nikon | Oct 5, 2012 3:42:14 PM | 19
re 18 and the situation in Jordan.
The support of the regime is the East Bank tribes. 60% or more of the population are Palestinian.
Back in 2010 or so, the Royal Guard shot dead four youths of the Bani Hasan. They were protesting against the absence of King Abdullah on holiday. He likes to ride his motorcycle on the Californian Pacific Highway.
The Angry Arab calls him King Playstation.
When Abdullah visited Tafileh in southern Jordan, he was abused.
Today, the Ubeidat condemn the appointment of one of their number as ambassador to Israel.
There is a big problem between the East Bank tribes and the King. Perhaps he has found another support, such as the US, but I doubt that the US can keep him in power.
Posted by: alexno | Oct 5, 2012 4:26:20 PM | 20
@ b # 7
The buffer zone - even if true - does not mean much, unless the rebels want to declare a 10km wider state of "Free Syria".
Since eventually they have to move out of the buffer zone if they want to conquer further areas and the big cities the situation is the same like before when they left Turkey to attack targets in Syria: They will be subject of syrian army counter measures.
This is different from Israels former lebanese buffer zone: Back then Israels aim was to hinder Hezbollah from moving to the border fence and firing short range weapons at soldiers and installations. In Turkeys case I doubt Syria is hindered from approaching Turkey becaus the Syrians already have no intention to systematically and knowingly attack Turkey.
Posted by: KerKaraje | Oct 5, 2012 4:32:52 PM | 21
@ KerKaraje #21
It's a no-fly zone not a buffer zone, according to the #7 Turkish source citing another Turkish source which was citing unknown “reliable sources.” (It doesn't get more sketchy than that.)
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 5, 2012 6:05:12 PM | 22
Posted by: m_s | Oct 5, 2012 11:11:27 AM | 4
sigh. more fabricated news. this time the source "German ZDF" is supposed to have said something - the whole news item quotes in the subjunctive - "angeblich", "sollen". No indication who says that German ZDF has said something. No mention of the fact that the reporter simply could have asked German ZDF and then reported without using the subjunctive.
Syria does not deny their army shells landed in the Turkish village. Syria's UN ambassador simply says that they are fighting infiltrations from Turkey, not attacking Turkey and that they would research the incident.
I say that it would be surprising if there were no border incidents. Presumably the rebels who took over the Syrian border post are safe in Turkey.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 5, 2012 6:09:52 PM | 23
IMO Erdogan was not made to step back, he was not going to go any further then the false flag and the show, he is prepping for the buffer/no fly zone.
He did this with NATO's ok and he advances the NATO agenda
Posted by: Penny | Oct 5, 2012 6:49:40 PM | 25
"Syria Times", electronic newspaper in English to be launched Saturday
DAMASCUS– Al- Wahda Foundation for Press, Printing, Publishing and Distribution set the date to inaugurate its electronic newspaper in English "Syria Times" on Saturday which coincides with marking the 39th anniversary of Tishreen (October) Liberation War.
In a press statement, Director General of al-Wahda Foundation Khalaf al-Meftah highlighted the importance of re-launching the electronic newspaper.
In turn, Editor-in-Chief of the newspaper, Dr. Mohammad Abdo al-Ibrahim said that the editing policy will depend on transparency and direct coverage of news, in addition to publishing reports, analyses and daily opinions regarding local, regional and international affairs.
He added that the newspaper will tackle different issues related to society, culture, art, economy, politics, national reconciliation, dialogue, environment, tourism, health, sports and the Arab and international press.
He added there will be certain articles about Syrian communities abroad as well as various articles that give the reader an opportunity to share his/ her opinion.
The launching of the electronic newspaper follows the suspension of its paper version in 2008 after signing a cooperation program between the Ministry of Information, the Planning and International Cooperation Commission and the UN Development Program (UNDP).
Posted by: brian | Oct 5, 2012 8:07:19 PM | 26
b writes: His deputy prime minister Besir Atalay's lie about the Syrian "apology" had the purpose to allow Erdogan to step back from the brink he had walked up to.
Now this is a lie that we should applaud if it allows Erdogan to step back and save a little face. One small lie for peace, much better than all out war.
Posted by: ToivoS | Oct 5, 2012 8:41:30 PM | 27
German state TV reports that Syrian rebels officially claim responsibility for attack on Turkey http://news-beacon-ireland.info/?p=7271
by R. Teichmann
On Oct 4, German state TV channel ZDF reported on the attack on Turkey several times. In its “Mittagsmagazin” at 1300 hrs (02:06–02:32) it reports as follows:
Raketen- und Granatfeuer. Die Türkei übt Vergeltung für einen Angriff von syrischer Seite. Gestern Nachmittag hatten syrische Rebellen einen türkischen Ort in Grenznähe beschossen. Seit Wochen schon warnt Ankara davor, die Türkei zu provozieren. Inzwischen haben sich die syrischen Rebellen ganz offiziell zu der Provokation bekannt.
Rocket and mortar fire. Turkey takes revenge after an attack from the Syrian side. Yesterday afternoon Syrian rebels fired on a Turkish village close to the border. For weeks Ankara had warned against provoking Turkey. Meanwhile Syrian rebels officially claimed responsibility for the provocation.
Only 3 hours later in its “Heute in Europa” at 1600 hrs (01:40–01:52) it reports:
Raketen und Granatfeuer. Vergangene Nacht übte die Türkei Vergeltung für einen Angriff von syrischer Seite. Gestern Nachmittag hatten Rebellen einen türkischen Ort in Grenznähe beschossen.
Rocket and mortar fire. Last night Turkey took revenge for an attack from the Syrian side. Yesterday afternoon rebels fired on a Turkish village close to the border.
Later in the same broadcast (02:20–02:27):
Aussage eines Einheimischen: „Die syrischen Rebellen versuchen, uns in ihren Konflikt zu verwickeln. Wir müssen da sehr vorsichtig sein.“
Testimony of a local: “The Syrian rebels try to draw us into their conflict. We have to be very careful here.”
In their main evening news “Heute” at 1900 hrs (01:40–01:53) they report:
Raketen- und Granatfeuer. Vergangene Nacht übte die Türkei Vergeltung. Gestern Nachmittag hatten die Syrer einen Ort in Grenznähe beschossen. Die Spannungen zwischen den Nachbarn waren eskaliert – Ankara schlug zurück.
Rocket and mortar fire. Last night Turkey took revenge. Yesterday afternoon the Syrians fired on a Turkish village close to the border. The tensions between the neighbours had escalated – Ankara retaliated.
In the late evening news “Heute Journal” at 2300 hrs (01:54–02:05) they reported:
Raketen und Granatfeuer. Vergangene Nacht übte die Türkei Vergeltung. Gestern Nachmittag war von syrischer Seite ein Ort in Grenznähe beschossen worden. Die Spannung eskalierte. Ankara schlug zurück.
Rocket and mortar fire. Last night Turkey took revenge. Yesterday afternoon a village close to the border had been fired upon from the Syrian side. The tension escalated – Ankara retaliated.
And later in the same broadcast (02:35–02:42):
Zerschossene Häuser und menschenleere Straßen. Noch ist nicht einmal klar, wer eigentlich geschossen hat, die syrische Armee oder die Rebellen.
Houses shot to pieces and streets devoid of people. It is not even clear yet who really fired, the Syrian army or the rebels.
The first victim of war is the truth. The first report clearly states that the rebels officially claimed responsibility for the attack on Turkey. It is telling to see how the pressure on this TV station worked. They had to back-pedal. At 1300 it was the Syrian Rebels officially claiming responsibility. In the main evening news at 1900 it was the Syrians (suggesting the Syrian army). This is a prime example of how the first and probably most authentic and truthful report is turned and twisted by the spin doctors to come to the desired result. In these times of Orwellian doublespeak we have to give credit to the ZDF that they did not stick with “The Syrians did it” but at least ended with a question mark. In the late evening they leave it open who was responsible. Supporting the original ZDF report that the rebels are responsible for the attack is another video (Source: Syria News) which shows that the rebels have the equipment to carry out such an attack. These mortar shells are Russian-made, at least, the armed Western-backed fighters state this in this video on YouTube. It seems that they use ammunition that they got by attacks of arms depots of the Syrian Arab Army.
Posted by: SufferingFools | Oct 6, 2012 8:01:47 AM | 28
ps: via NiqNaq
Posted by: SufferingFools | Oct 6, 2012 8:03:36 AM | 29
Syrian Truth l SANA l Yurt Newspaper: Erdogan's government Handed over the Mortars to armed groups in Syria which shelled Akcakale Town
Oct 06, 2012
ANKARA, (SANA)-Turkish Yurt Newspaper said that the government of the Development and Justice Party has to take a neutral stance on the events in Syria instead of supporting the groups of the so-called the armed opposition.
"Turkey was inevitably affected by the events in Syria… so it was very necessary for it to adopt new polices and be aware that instigating others will bring nothing but more damages.. The Turkish government was wrong at seeing the whole region through a sectarian vision," Journalist Ali Sirmen wrote in an article published by the Newspaper.
He added that the Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan was carrying out the policies of the US in Syria and the region, bearing the political and martial burden of this policy .
The Newspaper also revealed that the bomber which was used to launch the mortar on the Turkish Akcakale town is only used by NATO.
n an article by its Editor-in-Chief Merdan Yanardag, Yurt clarified that it had information from a reliable source saying that Turkey was the side which sent the mortars to the members of so-called ''the free army".
"Those information affirm that the Government of Erdogan's wrong policy was behind the falling of the mortar in the town that claimed the lives of 5 Turks." Yanaradag added.
Posted by: brian | Oct 6, 2012 8:05:58 AM | 30
Turkey continues right on shelling Syria, in retaliation of course
Turkey 'retaliated' on Friday and already today
The attacks on Syria continue as planned
reports of the latest attacks are in this post
Also Turkey is claiming "from reliable sources" that Syria has agreed to a buffer zone. Which is nonsense
I covered it yesterday in the post below but, see the news is getting more widespread coverage today
b- "no further escalation of the war the U.S., Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar are waging against Syria."
The war continues unabated
Posted by: Penny | Oct 6, 2012 8:17:08 AM | 31
Oops forgot to do the html thing
early am and no coffee, my bad
Posted by: Penny | Oct 6, 2012 8:18:15 AM | 32
The Syria anti-government forces have found their magic war pill, comparable to the Taliban and their green-on-blue. And sending mortar shells into houses and plowed fields carries no danger! Guaranteed to start a proxy war by the Turks!
These forces have the mortars -- small here, medium here and here, and large like here and here.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 6, 2012 10:39:22 AM | 33
From the above link to LATimes, July 15, 2012
ALONG THE SYRIA-TURKEY BORDER — The bomb maker was displaying his homemade mortar launcher, crafted from a tube and bits of metal. "Whatever we need to produce, we Google it," said the factory worker turned rebel commander and arms procurer in a border village where goats and insurgents walk along steep mountain paths.
Turkey's Hatay province* has become a logistics base, arms bazaar and convalescence center for Syrian rebels and their supporters — not to mention a hub of intrigue over Islamist funding and squabbling among rebel militias that seem to agree on little else beyond the need to oust Syrian President Bashar Assad.
Syrian fighters may not carry arms openly on Turkish soil, but guns and materiel are stashed in safe houses throughout this region dotted by pine forests, olive groves and pomegranate trees. Wounded fighters and civilians are carted on stretchers across the porous frontier from Syria for medical care. Syrian army defectors pour in after deserting their posts.
With Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan joining calls for Assad's resignation, Turkish authorities appear to look the other way. Even though the government in Ankara has reported a buildup of its forces along the border since Syrian antiaircraft batteries shot down a Turkish jet last month, soldiers seen here seem mostly relaxed and confined to sprawling bases.
*Hatay province is where the most recent mortar round supposedly landed. It's a Turkish province that sticks down into Syria, along the coast, like a sore thumb. Its Syria border is much longer than its border with Anatolian Turkey. Hatay houses the FSA headquarters and many Syrian refugees. The peacetime population is much like Syria's, with Alawites and Sunnis and others. There have been recent pro-Syria demonstrations there, and the Hatayans are not happy with all the tens of thousands of refugees.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Oct 6, 2012 11:07:08 AM | 34
Turkey continues to strike Syria for the fourth day
"“We are not interested in war, but we’re not far from it either,” Erdogan said in his speech."
I have updated yet again, if interested the link is
updates including video at the bottom, just scroll on down
Posted by: Penny | Oct 6, 2012 11:55:16 AM | 35
Hey Don @ 33
"Guaranteed to start a proxy war by the Turks!"
That is what the Turks are hoping for
Posted by: Penny | Oct 6, 2012 11:56:06 AM | 36
Buffer zone would give erdogan some breathing room, erdogan would be able to get fsa out of turkish soil and into syria.
Posted by: nikon | Oct 6, 2012 5:08:24 PM | 37
thanks, SufferingFools | Oct 6, 2012 8:01:47 AM | 28 it is very strange reporting, indeed. I listened to the Morgenmagazin one, Roland Strumpf says a) that rebels admitted to the shelling of the Turkish village, b) that the Syrian apologized for the shelling.
Roland Strumpf is the ZDF's Moscow correspondent. So I guess the information on both accounts is Russian. Both might as well be true, though the part of the rebels admitting the provocation sounds strange.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 6, 2012 6:38:38 PM | 38
Oh no need to thank me :-)
The pleasure is all mine.
The fact that it renders ridiculous (and clearly dishonest) any further attempts on your part to claim otherwise, and prevents you from continuing to falsely blame the Syrian Gov't (as you have consistently done, despite the welter of contradictory evidence, in every similar situation since this illegal NATO-etc war on Syria started), is thanks enough for me. ta very much, like.
Posted by: SufferingFools | Oct 6, 2012 6:56:49 PM | 39
39 SufferingFools - there is something else strange about the reporting. The announcer in the first newscast reports on the Turkish village deaths in the subjunctive, thus putting the number of dead or any dead actually into doubt.
It is as if German ZDF, which is government owned (Germany has a federal system of public broadcasting that is controlled by political parties according to their strength in elections) tried its utmost to destroy any case Turkey might have for NATO intervention and then relaxed into an Erdogan face saver.
German reporting now from Turkey states that there is heavy fighting on the Turkish border between rebels and Syrian army, that still shells land on Turkish areas, that the Turkish army fires back when that happens but acknowledges part of it as accidental (there is some contradiction in the reporting) and that according to Turkey the Syrian army has withdrawn from the immediate border area.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 6, 2012 7:55:02 PM | 40
So, you're going with the rather pseudo-intellectual 'subjunctive' again, I see?
Seriously . . . if I wanted recycled discredited bullshit I'd of watched the Presidential 'debates'.
"It is as if German ZDF, which is government owned (Germany has a federal system of public broadcasting that is controlled by political parties according to their strength in elections) tried its utmost to >
normal people might just skip all such nonsense and conclude the ZDF told something approaching the truth in this instance, rather than relying on rather shakey makey-up pseudo-Machiavellian mouth-farts to support a line of bullshit so pungent that the mere memory of it twould require all the sweet perfumes of distant Araby to expunge
Posted by: SufferingFools | Oct 6, 2012 8:18:15 PM | 41
So, you're going with the rather pseudo-intellectual 'subjunctive' again, I see?
Seriously . . . if I wanted recycled discredited bullshit I'd of watched the Presidential 'debates'.
"It is as if German ZDF, which is government owned (Germany has a federal system of public broadcasting that is controlled by political parties according to their strength in elections) tried its utmost to . . . . . blah blah blah [insert silly conspiratorial nonsense here, and mumble something about 'numbers' in an effort to distract from the actual point of contention]"
normal people might just skip all such nonsense and conclude the ZDF told something approaching the truth in this instance, rather than relying on rather shakey makey-up pseudo-Machiavellian mouth-farts to support a line of bullshit so pungent that the mere memory of it twould require all the sweet perfumes of distant Araby to expunge.
Posted by: SufferingFools | Oct 6, 2012 8:26:30 PM | 42
SufferingFools | Oct 6, 2012 8:26:30 PM | 42
Russia today cites observers speculating (that is Russia Today's choice of words) that the continued landing of shells from rebel controlled areas along the Turkish border is done by rebels trying to provoke Turkey into action - which makes you wonder whom the Turkish army is firing at.
Posted by: somebody | Oct 6, 2012 8:41:49 PM | 43
Turkish people say NO TO WAR...lets see how 'democratic' Turkey really is!
In a rally which was called 'NO TO WAR', Thousands of Turks in Ankara and Istanbul have demonstrated against Erdogan Government's Policies, which is increasing tension in the region and thus threatening security in implementation of western agendas that do not serve the interests of the Turkish people."
In Istanbul city, thousands crowded in the main Taksim Square in response to calls by a number of left-wing parties raising a large banner with "No to War" written on it, accusing Erdogan government of exploiting the accident on borders with Syria to mobilize the public opinion to support its anti-peace policies.
The protestors chanted slogans condemning the US and its support to terrorism in the region, stressing that the AKP is dragging Turkey into an imperialist war by proxy under Washington's instruction.
In Ankara, hundreds of citizens gathered in front of the Parliament building denouncing the current government's subjugation to the western policies and being a tool in the aggression on the peoples of the region in contradiction with the Turkish interests.
The Turkish citizens stressed their keenness on preserving best relations with the Syrian people, reiterating rejection of turning their country into a base for terrorists who commit murder acts in Syria.
Amid the chanting, members of the Turkish police tried to separate the protestors by force through beating them and firing tear gas at them.
Deputy Leader of the Republican People's Party, Muharrem Ince, said Erdogn's government has shown no reaction or moved a finger when Israel killed 9 Turkish citizens on board the Gaza-bound Mavi Marmara ship. "Our stance is clear. We don't want war against anyone and we don't want to be a tool in the hands of anyone," he stressed.
Posted by: brian | Oct 6, 2012 9:13:22 PM | 44
this is amazing! the brutal if wealthy arab dictatorships try to buy Russia off....
SAUDI ARABIA AND QATAR HAVE OFFERED MOSCOW $25 BILLION DOLLARS TO ABANDON PRESIDENT AL-ASSAD ..
Information received stated that the Gulf Countries have offered Moscow $25 Billion dollars to cease all support to the Assad Government and to abandon President Al-Assad. Journalist For Syrian Opinion on the 07/10/2012 said that Gulf Countries including Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait and UAE were prepared to raise the $25 Billion Dollars to be handed to Russia in return for it to stop backing President Al-Assad ..
President Putin answered with he did NOT want to take the money and that Russia is a Great Power and found the offer of the $25 Billion dollars Insulting, adding that Russia is behind Syria with strong solidarity ...
SOME SOULS ARE NOT FOR SALE .
Source: Journalist for Syrian Opinion
Posted by: brian | Oct 7, 2012 12:04:26 AM | 45
Thank you for your contributions, Suffering Fools. I see you have a clear eye as to who is subverting our collective quest for truth.
Posted by: arthurdecco | Oct 7, 2012 7:20:35 AM | 46