Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 16, 2012

Syria: Russia Rejects Western Blackmail

The false reporting on the Tremseh "massacre" was supposed to put pressure on Russia and China to agree to a Chapter 7 UN Security Council resolution. Chapter 7 allows the use of force and such a resolution could be used as an excuse for armed intervention. Kofi Annan took that position when, after Tremseh, he urged the UNSC to threaten Syria with "consequences" for not retreating from cities and villages. Annan and Ban Ki Moon were dispatched to Russia and China to further press the issue.

But the Tremseh information operation fell apart when the UN observers confirmed the Syrian government version of the story. Writes the Wall Street Journal:

New evidence on last week's killings in a village in central Syria suggests the bloodshed followed a raid by government forces to arrest male rebels, rather than a deliberate massacre of around 200 civilians as some Syrian opposition leaders and their Western allies first reported.
...
The findings could ease the pressure on Russia and China to back tougher measures against Bashar al-Assad's government, underscoring how competing narratives and interpretations of events in Syria continue to divide world powers over how to end a conflict now recognized by most as a civil war.

The Foreign Minister of the Russian Federation Sergey Lavrov is scheduled to meet with Kofi Annan tomorrow. He just held a press conference in which he laid out the Russian and Chinese position. From my notes:

  • Lavrov rejected demands of unilateral withdrawal of Syrian armed forces from cities. He insisted on simultaneous withdrawal by the army and the insurgents after local negotiations and under supervision of the UN observers.
  • He accused the west of "blackmailing" by threatening to not renew the mandate of the UN observers unless Russia agrees to a Chapter 7 resolution.
  • He asked how Russia could trust anyone with Chapter 7 when existing UNSC resolutions and the recent Geneva decisions are not followed by others as they continue to arm and support the insurgency.
  • He expressed concern about the increasing sectarian dimension of the conflict and the fate of minorities like the Christians in Syria.
  • He expressed concern about a radical "third force" in the Syrian conflict and emphasized that such AlQaeda forces are a common enemy of everyone involved in the crisis.
  • He regretted that the Syrian National Council does not relent from its "radical demands", is not helpful in creating an inner-Syrian dialog and has not named a negotiator like the Syrian government has done.
  • He emphasized that the solution of the crisis in Syria will be an example for other global crises and should be seen under that perspective.
  • Inner-Syrian negotiation on a transition as agreed upon in Geneva is the way to go and Russia will not go with any UN resolution that does not confirm with the Geneva document.
  • Russia will not permit any Chapter 7 resolution on Syria to pass the UNSC.

The attempt to use Tremseh to blackmail the Russians has obviously failed.

Will there be another trick the U.S. will try to get its will? Could the unconfirmed allegation by anonymous western officials about the movement of chemical arms within Syria be used to create another fake event that the Syrian government can then be accused of? What other malicious ideas will Hillary Clinton come up with?

Posted by b on July 16, 2012 at 05:44 AM | Permalink

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From the Land Destroyer blog of last March:

UN's Kofi Annan: An Agent of Wall Street
"Peace envoy" sits on board with traitors, meddlers, and warmongers.
by Tony Cartalucci

March 20, 2012 - "U.N.-Arab League envoy" Kofi Annan has claimed over the last several weeks to be backing "peace efforts" in Syria to end the conflict which has lasted over a year now. In reality, it has been revealed that his function is to simply buy time for a collapsing militant front and the creation of NATO-occupied "safe havens" from which further destabilization and "coercive action" can be conducted against the Syrian government.


This has been confirmed by Fortune 500-funded, US foreign-policy think-tank, Brookings Institution which has blueprinted designs for regime change in Libya as well as both Syria and Iran. In their latest report, "Assessing Options for Regime Change" it is stated:


"An alternative is for diplomatic efforts to focus first on how to end the violence and how to gain humanitarian access, as is being done under Annan’s leadership. This may lead to the creation of safe-havens and humanitarian corridors, which would have to be backed by limited military power. This would, of course, fall short of U.S. goals for Syria and could preserve Asad in power. From that starting point, however, it is possible that a broad coalition with the appropriate international mandate could add further coercive action to its efforts." -page 4, Assessing Options for Regime Change, Brookings Institution.


... While some may be surprised that "peace envoy" Kofi Annan is essentially lying to both Syria's government and to the world, with a complicit UN and "Arab League" willfully "in" on the fraud, Annan's ties with notorious traitors, meddlers, and warmongers indicate that this latest deception is par for the course.

Annan is a trustee of Wall Street speculator George Soros and geopolitical manipulator Zbigniew Brzezinski's International Crisis Group, along side Neo-Conservative corporate lobbyist and warmonger Kenneth Adelman, US State Department-listed Iranian terror organization MEK lobbyist - General Wesley Clark, Wall Street-backed color revolution leader - Mohammed ElBaradei of Egypt, and Brookings Institution's Samuel Berger.

Image: Just some of the corporate and "institutional" sponsors of the International Crisis Group, upon which Kofi Annan sits as a "trustee" with other dubious personalities including George Soros, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Israeli President Shimon Peres, Egypt's Mohammed ElBaradei, and Neo-Cons Richard Armitage and Kenneth Adelman. (click image to enlarge)

... Serving as "advisers" to the International Crisis Group include, Neo-Conservative warmonger Richard Armitage, former Foreign Minister of Israel Shlomo Ben-Ami, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Bank of Israel Governor Stanely Fischer, and President of Israel Shimon Peres.

It must surely warm the cockles of the Syrian people's hearts to realize Annan, with direct ties to the Neo-Conservative establishment who has long sought Syria's destabilization and the Israel government as well as its financial institutions, is so "concerned" about establishing peace in a conflict where Syrian rebels and foreign militants are turning up with US and Israeli weapons in their hands. It must also warm their hearts to see direct admissions from the Brookings Insitution that Annan's mission is simply to buy time for a faltering foreign-funded rebellion so that it may be preserved and rehabilitated back to full strength under the guise of a "peace deal."

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/03/uns-kofi-annan-agent-of-wall-street.html

Posted by: www | Jul 16, 2012 6:34:58 AM | 1

The push to do a repeat of Libya in Syria by the usual suspects won't fly..They'll have to come out openly to declare war on Syria and by then, all bets will be off..It will be the final war for the West in the Middle East.

One can see the frustration in Clinton by the lack of "progress" (ie, regime change in Damascus)..He was in Egypt not long ago and according to sources(not activists), all's not well in Egypt.The man-lady was pelted with all kinds of crap.They really miss Mubarak - he was such a lovely tool :^)

You'd think with all the smart people in the US, they'll choose one of them for foreign secretary - no??? Instead what do we get? A mad women who believes the world(ME) must pay for her lack of control of her husband's sexual drive.The legacy of Monica still haunts her till this day. She has to do stupid things to prove to the world no one messes with her..:)


My prediction...The rebels will be wiped out and eventually forced to the negotiating table. The hardcore ones will refuse but the clever ones will take the opportunity and maybe get some lower role in government.

Otherwise, if things keep getting worse, it'll become a real war between Russia/China/Iran on one side and the US and her tag-alongs on another side..Russia can easily turn off the gas taps to Europe to put some pressure on the eurocrats to reconsider their position and see reality for what it is. Iran will increase the price of gas export to Turkey, Turkey will protest and Iran will conveniently cut off gas export citing "pricing issues" - got my drift?

The US and her tag-alongs have abused all international institutions and destroyed their credibility for nothing..No sane person will ever obey ANY UN resolution again..National interest trumps EVERYTHING!!! back to school :)

Posted by: Zico | Jul 16, 2012 7:09:44 AM | 2

Clinton not welcome in Egypt:

Egypt Orthodox, Evangelical church reps refuse meeting with Clinton
Church officials, Christian politicians decline invitations to meet with US secretary of state to protest perceived American interference in Egypt's domestic affairs

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/47767/Egypt/Politics-/Egypt-Orthodox,-Evangelical-church-reps-refuse-mee.aspx

More news about Clinton's unwelcome from other groups:

"... The Front for Peaceful Change, a pro-revolution youth group, issued a statement on Saturday calling on the Egyptian public to participate in the protests to register its rejection of perceived US interfere in Egypt's affairs and its alleged deal-making with the Muslim Brotherhood.

Accusations of a secret agreement hammered out between the US and the Brotherhood is a common refrain among the opponents of Clinton's visit.

Emad Gad, a Coptic-Christian member of Egypt's dissolved lower house of parliament for the Egyptian Social Democratic Party, saw Clinton's visit to Cairo within the context of an alleged US-Brotherhood deal through which Brotherhood candidate Mohamed Morsi assumed Egypt's presidency.

"In exchange for Morsi's being named president, the Brotherhood is expected to protect Israel's security by pressuring Hamas – the Brotherhood's branch in Palestine – not to launch military attacks against Israel, and even accept a peace agreement with Tel Aviv," Gad told Al-Ahram's Arabic-language news website. "


http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/47782/Egypt/Politics-/Liberal-and-Christian-figures,-groups-protest-Clin.aspx

Posted by: www | Jul 16, 2012 9:52:38 AM | 3

Some news...from the Kingdom of Morocco:

1. http://www.france24.com/en/20120716-morocco-expels-syrian-ambassador-rabat-president-bashar-al-assad
you can cut the irony with a knife:
'Morocco said on Monday it had asked the Syrian ambassador to leave the North African country and declared him persona non grata, calling for a transition to democracy that would meet the Syrian people’s aspirations for freedom.'
http://www.france24.com/en/20120716-morocco-expels-syrian-ambassador-rabat-president-bashar-al-assad

so monarchical colonial Morocco is preaching freedom to secular syria?...take a look at the comments below: what do we know about Morocco?'

2. how free is Morocco? is Morocco occupying anyone? not very....and yes.
http://www.fpif.org/reports/morocco_and_western_sahara

Morocco and Western Sahara...morocco is occupying the state of Western Sahara...
‎'Morocco has occupied Western Sahara since 1975 in violation of resolutions by the UN Security Council and a decision by the International Court of Justice.'

3. ‎'involving Morocco itself, Washington needs to encourage a transition to a greater degree of democracy. Although a parliamentary system is in place, the king still remains an autocratic ruler. The U.S. should urge the release of political prisoners and should encourage a transition toward a more authentic and open democratic system.'....so Morocco needs a nudge toward more freedom.....it also is currently occupying the western sahara...a kind of mini-me US


4. it takes Chutzpah on an israeli scale..and a few words of encouragement from a US ambassador...to make a monarchial colonial repressor expell an ambassador of syria for a lack of freedom in syria!

Posted by: brian | Jul 16, 2012 10:07:14 AM | 4

brian@ 4

Morocco's decision to expel the Syrian ambassador is no exactly a Moroccan one..The orders came from above and they only implemented it..If you have democratic powerhouses like Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain all rallying behind Washington's call for democracy in Syria you only have to sit quietly and wonder if the world is spinning anti-clockwise..

This is all part of the "ratcheting up of tensions" and "putting more pressure" as the West like to call it..Nothing will come out of it..The various Arab monarchies are scared of revolution coming their way so they think perhaps if they support Washington it will take the heat off them, for a while.

The situation in Saudi Arabia's Eastern province is very dire..The guy's have already threatened to blow up oil pipelines and stuff..They'll make what's happening in Syria look like child's play.

Posted by: Zico | Jul 16, 2012 10:38:48 AM | 5

from Angry Arab:
Meet some of the armed Syrian groups lionized in the West
"The FSA’s leadership, a collection of mid-ranking Sunni Arab military defectors headed by Colonel Riyad Musa al-As’ad from a base in Turkey, is actively courting Western support and has unambiguously condemned jihadi groups. This attitude is not necessarily shared by the fighters on the ground, who tend to label themselves FSA whether or not they are in actual contact with the FSA headquarters. With Sunni sectarian perspectives becoming more central to the armed uprising as time passes, most FSA factions are now steeped in religious rhetoric and there are a number of explicitly Islamist groups calling themselves part of the FSA, some of whom use radical jihadi slogans. One such group is the al-Bara bin Malek Brigade, which uses the Salafi-Jihadi flag made famous by al-Qaeda in Iraq and vows to carry out “martyrdom operations.” [3]
Outside the FSA umbrella, there are other groups which are more radical and more hostile to Western influence over the uprising. These include the Ahrar al-Sham Brigades, a network of Islamist militias spread over several provinces, as well as a Salafist group in Homs called the Ansar Brigade. Others, such as Fath al-Islam, a Syrian-Lebanese-Palestinian group, predate the uprising. There is not, however, a formal al-Qaeda franchise in Syria, after the failed attempt to establish al-Qa’ida fi Bilad al-Sham (”al-Qaeda in the Levant”) in the mid-2000s, though this situation may be about to change (al-Hayat, September 28, 2010)." (thanks Aron)
======================
and these are the guys the Usrael/UN/EU etc support?

Posted by: brian | Jul 16, 2012 10:39:33 AM | 6

zico 5

good luck to the guys in east saudi! SAudi arabia may need to withdraw some of its jihadis from syria to help quell the ummm..er...jeez!....rebellion for freedom in the east!

meanwhile Morocco... can entertain the world with its system of govt!

Posted by: brian | Jul 16, 2012 10:42:41 AM | 7

Is massacres are what interest NATO here is one, reported by PressTV, to look into:

“Burmese helicopter set fire to three boats carrying nearly 50 Muslim Rohingyas fleeing sectarian violence in western Burma in an attack that is believed to have killed everyone on board,” reported Radio Free Europe on July 12.

Why would anyone take such fatal risks? Refugees are attempting to escape imminent death, torture or arrest at the hands of the Ethnic Buddhist Rakhine majority, which has the full support of the Myanmar government.

The relatively little media interest in Myanmar’s ‘ethnic clashes’ is by no means an indication of the significance of the story. The recent flaring of violence followed the raping and killing of a Rhakine woman on May 28, allegedly by three Rohingya men. The incident ushered a rare movement of unity between many sectors of Myanmar society, including the government, security forces and so-called pro-democracy activists and groups. The first order of business was the beating to death of ten innocent Muslims......."

Posted by: bevin | Jul 16, 2012 10:58:29 AM | 8

>>> Morocco's decision to expel the Syrian ambassador is no exactly a Moroccan one..>>>

Yes it is, Zico, Morocco is yet another country with its hands and heads full of Brotherhood issues. A few months back, there was an eruption of sorts there along the lines of what was happening in other Arab countries and it was quickly snuffed out but it didn't go away completely. Same thing happened in Jordan and in Oman. The thing with the amabassador in Morocco must be a carrot being thrown to the Brothers to make them happy by doing something to please their Syrian brothers. Something brewing in Algeria too.

Posted by: www | Jul 16, 2012 11:23:49 AM | 9

How the hell does Angry Arab know up to the date details on the ground so he knows all the different "rebel" groups and which ones are communicating with FSA leadership and which ones aren't?

I guess he's citing "Aron Lund" of the Jameston Foundation . . . a Western organization no doubt.

But where does Aron get this information that Angry Arab is citing? Here's footnote 3 from Aron Lund's piece:

"3. See ”Ansar al-Sham, in steadfast Homs: Announcing the formation of the al-Bara bin Malek Brigade under the banner of monotheism,” February 17, 2012, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFDyw1cYATg."

So once again Angry Arab is full of shit and obscuring his sources but making it sound like he's got his ear to the ground.

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 16, 2012 11:32:03 AM | 10

Walter, the angry one must have reporters embedded with various groups. If you would have been following the news on Syria, you'd know that the rebel forces are made up of 6 or more different groups, all of them pretending to be part of the FSA, which is not the case. There are also the opposition parties that are not fighting militarily and stationed in Istanbul while other opposition parties are stationed in Paris. This disunity among the different factions is what's keeping the opposition in disarray; they can't even agree on a leader and have had to settle on a rotating leadership of 3 or 6 months to give a chance to more people to play "leader". No black magic in the angry Arab reporting; you're upset with the guy for nothing.

Posted by: www | Jul 16, 2012 11:49:46 AM | 11

"If you would have been following the news on Syria . . . "

ha ha ha wwww

thanks for the lecture.

If I only "follow" what the Western media tells me I would know . . . . bullshit.

You're telling me the western media is accurately reporting on the inner workings of CIA-backed coup (with the help of GCC, Turkey, Israel and NATO)? I know for a fact they have been lying repeatedly.

But they are telling the truth about this? Bullshit. Why are you peddling these lies too? Your whole role seems to be to obfuscate and hound anyone that asks the right questions about Syria.

Let's stick to this particular "fact" Angry Arab is reporting (via "Aron", his buddy I guess); Angry Arab is claiming there are 6 groups that don't talk to FSA headquarters. How does he know this? How does footnote 3 support this claim?

It doesn't!

Angry Arab is full of shit. He's spreading lies. He's being deceptive, trying to sneak in "facts" like this.

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 16, 2012 12:07:55 PM | 12

this point from Lavrov's press conference is really interesting:

He emphasized that the solution of the crisis in Syria will be an example for other global crises and should be seen under that perspective.
so there's some strategical thought behind Russia's stiffening on Syria?

Posted by: claudio romanini | Jul 16, 2012 12:46:22 PM | 13

You're a fast reader, Walter, in fact too fast; the 6 different groups was from me, not from the angry one. The opposition is so disorganized, the ones being driven crazy are their American handlers. Here's a report just published on Spiegel that shows the discord that prevails within the opposition:

"... Although the war in Syria is getting bloodier, the power and appeal of the resistance is growing. But Randa Kassis, a member of the opposition Syrian National Council, warns that Islamist fighters armed by the Gulf states are sowing discord among the opposition that will only prolong the war."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/opposition-group-leader-randa-kassis-on-islamist-fighters-in-syria-a-844622.html

Posted by: www | Jul 16, 2012 12:57:56 PM | 14

Walter, a bit more on the different groups from Jazeera. If you check out the video after the 3:37 mark, there is a full explanation on the various political groups that will make you as knowledgeable as the angry one.:

"... Several groups, however, have tried to form coalitions to unite opposition supporters in Syria and gain international help and recognition:

"The increased brutality is pushing people into armament. That's not our preferred way of bringing about regime change, we would like peaceful change, but the reality on the ground is different and it's the responsibility of the regime that brought it to that point."

- Najib Ghadbian, member of the SNC


- The largest opposition group is the Syrian National Council (SNC), a coalition of seven opposition groups, but the SNC is criticised for being internally fragmented and failing to reach out to minority groups. And the SNC is still struggling to get solid international recognition.

- The Free Syrian Army has become an umbrella group for those who have taken up arms against the Assad government. But it is also criticised for its failure to unite under a single chain of command.

- The National Coordination Committee calls for conditional dialogue with Assad's government. Unlike some members of the SNC they vehemently oppose foreign intervention in Syria.

- On February 26, a new Syrian Patriotic Group made up of a splinter group of former Syrian National council members has emerged.

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidesyria/2012/03/20123495447845483.html

Posted by: www | Jul 16, 2012 1:15:22 PM | 15

@13, setting a good example is my kind of strategy.

Posted by: ruralito | Jul 16, 2012 1:25:21 PM | 16

shorter www,

"opposition groups claim . . . "

"Al Jazeera reports . . . ."

I don't trust these sources. They have been proven to be pushing FALSE information. There is no direct evidence presented in the stories

The 'insurgents in disarray' story (and that's all it is) is being promoted to absolve the U.S./Israel/NATO/GCC of their role. Plus, it pushes the false meme that the insurgency is a ground up rebellion. Further, it is probably also intended to lull the Syrian government into thinking its opposition is in disaray when the opposite is probably the truth. The West is tightening the noose around the Syrian government.

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 16, 2012 2:14:00 PM | 17

www @15,

I love how Al Jazeera goes all the way to America to talk to university professors to figure out what's going on "inside Syria." Here's a description of the panel on Al Jazeera:

"Inside Syria discusses with Randa Slim, an adjunct research fellow at the New American Foundation and scholar at the Middle East Institute; Najib Ghadbian, a member of the Syrian National Council and associate professor of political science and Middle East studies at the University of Arkansas; and Joshua Landis, a Syria expert and director of the Center for Middle East Studies, who is also a professor at Oklahoma University."

And it's pretty interesting that these professors are getting some sweet scoops. Landis is getting communiques from defecting Middle Eastern Generals sent to him in Oklahoma and Angry Arab is getting secret information about Israeli assassinations in Syria.

Seems credible. If I was a General in the Syria army I would make sure to send Josh Landis my resignation letter and make sure he had the scoop before anyone else.

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 16, 2012 2:32:16 PM | 18

Walter, I know about Jazeera. It ws my favorite until Libya, but even liars tell the truth occasionally and smart people like you can usually tell when a lie is being told and when it's not, so I'm not afraid of watching it or CNN.

Posted by: www | Jul 16, 2012 2:45:15 PM | 19

re Zico 2

They'll have to come out openly to declare war on Syria and by then, all bets will be off..It will be the final war for the West in the Middle East.

That's misunderstanding the situation. The US can achieve its objectives without open attack. As the US doesn't have any objectives in Syria, we are talking about Israel's interests. Israel wants Syria in confusion, not a change of regime. (A secure Salafi regime would be dangerous for Israel.) That is pretty much achieved. It will be a long time before Syria is settled again.

Posted by: alexno | Jul 16, 2012 2:54:51 PM | 20

"What other malicious ideas will Hillary Clinton come up with?"

The "malicious ideas" are certainly not Hillary Clinton's own.

Ms. Clinton is a simply the latest in a long line of venally ambitious and wilfully ignorant stenographer/cheerleaders for her government position's Jewish Zionist handlers and THEIR bosses.

Full credit for the abject STUPIDITY displayed by Ms. Clinton in her public utterances should therefore be laid completely at their feet, not hers.

Posted by: arthurdecco | Jul 16, 2012 3:06:18 PM | 21

re Walter 10

How the hell does Angry Arab know up to the date details on the ground so he knows all the different "rebel" groups and which ones are communicating with FSA leadership and which ones aren't?

I entirely agree with www 11. The Angry Arab is as he is, one guy, Lebanese, Professor of politics at UC Stanislas, with a good number of contacts, but not total coverage. At least he reads the Arabic press, which journalists can't.

I heard him live once in San Francisco, in a debate with the Israeli consul. He is extremely narcissistic, but argues well. No power would ever take him on as a propagandist. Too unreliable. I'm surprised that he managed to get tenure at UC Stanislas. It must have been before his views became known. Today, with Israeli pressures, he would never have got tenure, and would be out.

I think it's interesting to compare him with Juan Cole. Cole is also an academic, and also non-establishment. Yale refused him, and he was never invited to make an 'embedded' visit to Iraq during the war, though many US academics were. The difference is that Cole continues to give a pro-government view in his blog, apparently with the intention of influencing the Pentagon/State Department. Whereas the Angry Arab doesn't care, and relies upon his tenure, to say what he wants.

Posted by: alexno | Jul 16, 2012 3:51:30 PM | 22

Syria: Russia Rejects Western Blackmail

He accused the west of "blackmailing" by threatening to not renew the mandate of the UN observers unless Russia agrees to a Chapter 7 resolution.

I'm not sure I've understood what the blackmail was. Threatening to not renew the mandate of UN Observers hardly constitutes blackmail. There must have been something more serious than that.

Posted by: alexno | Jul 16, 2012 4:06:27 PM | 23

Walter Wit Man the more you go on ranting against the Angry one the less credible you sound. I read his stuff and I recognize that you are misrepresenting a number of things that he has written. Are you just throwing s--t against the wall and hope some sticks (deliberate obfuscation) or are you an honest person with a reading comprehension problem? It is difficult to say at this point.

Posted by: ToivoS | Jul 16, 2012 4:54:45 PM | 24

I somewhat agree with Zico's comments. If there is a miscalculation on the part of the path the U.S. and its allies have taken then we maybe looking at a wider, general, war. Currently, The Alaed, merchant ship, is making another attempt to deliver MI-25 gunships to Syria. It is making this new departure under a Russia flag this time around. The Kremlin sent a flotilla of naval ships headed by a destroyer. It's name is the Admiral Chabanenko. The Chabanenko has been ordered to the Mediterranean east. The flotilla is a short way ahead of The Alaed and is headed for Tartus, Syria. The flotilla could be dispatched at any time to ensure merchant shipping from Russia or run up against any blockades. Things are definitely heating up in the Middle East. All there need to be is one miscalculation of the actors in this feud and bang we have a general war between superpowers. And I'm sure the readers of your blog are intelligent enough to know what that mean.

Posted by: Andre' E. Williams | Jul 16, 2012 5:30:33 PM | 25

yep, they are approaching war ...

http://www.rt.com/news/us-fire-gulf-boat-326/

Rising tension in the Gulf has claimed a victim as a civilian boat came under fire from a US Navy ship after getting too close to an American tanker. One person was killed and three others wounded in the incident, say US officials.
The security watch of the US fleet tanker USNS Rappahannock spotted a small white-hulled boat, which continued to approach the ship despite a series of warnings.
“The US crew repeatedly attempted to warn the vessel's operators to turn away from their deliberate approach. When those efforts failed to deter the approaching vessel, the security team on the Rappahannock fired rounds from a .50-caliber machine gun,” said Lt. Greg Raelson, a spokesman for the Navy's Bahrain-based Fifth Fleet.
The incident, which took place near Dubai's Jebel Ali port on Monday, is still under investigation by the United Arab Emirates’ authorities. Few official details are currently available.
The deceased was an Indian national, as were the three others who were injured, reports the UAE’s state news agency WAM. The boat appeared to be a civilian vessel, of a type frequently used for fishing, about nine meters long and powered by three outboard motors. It bore no obvious military markings.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 16, 2012 5:48:28 PM | 26

>>> yep, they are approaching war ...>>>


Maybe not, somebody, good essay in Al-Akhbar on the prospect of war, especially if the "neighborhood bully" decides to get involved:

"Israel and its backers have been hinting at possible military intervention in Syria on the pretext of preventing the transfer of its chemical weapons stockpiles to the Lebanese resistance. Such a step would set the region ablaze. Iran and Hezbollah have let it be known to all concerned that they would not stand idly by.

... Reports, mostly based on intelligence sources, have indicated that a frantic effort is being made (including on-the-ground activities attributed to Turkish, British and perhaps US special forces) to identify the locations of the Syrian army’s non-conventional arms – meaning not only its long-range missile arsenal, but also what the West says is the biggest stockpile of chemical weapons in the region.

... Sky News and others have meanwhile quoted intelligence sources saying Israel is considering the possibility of military intervention to prevent Syria’s secret chemical weapons stockpiles from falling into terrorist hands.

Israeli media took the story further. Israel was said to have been told by the US that Turkish intelligence had admitted to having lost track of the whereabouts of these weapons.

... Also, there are many reasons, well known and not-so-well known, why launching a war on Lebanon would be tantamount to inviting everyone to a barbeque party in hell.

http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/will-israel-do-it

Posted by: www | Jul 16, 2012 6:06:04 PM | 27

Maybe not, somebody, good essay in Al-Akhbar on the prospect of war, especially if the "neighborhood bully" decides to get involved:

"Israel and its backers have been hinting at possible military intervention in Syria on the pretext of preventing the transfer of its chemical weapons stockpile

No, I don't believe it. Gases don't have that much effect. I would think an Israeli military intervention in Lebanon or Syria would have a more serious product than the risk threatened.

Posted by: alexno | Jul 16, 2012 6:27:10 PM | 28

I still don't believe Israel is calling the shots here

on the contrary - it's a proxy war the Us is fighting, so it could as well be that it's coaxing a hesitant Israel to display a more aggressive attitude - I don't know

anyways, if there's a Us-Turkey-Saudi-Qatar axis for regime change in Syria, Israel would have no choice but to follow suit; also, a regional Turkey-Saudi-Qatar-Egypt axis could well force Israel to play along, or else face isolation, even without Us meddling

the "chemical weapons that musn't fall in the hands of Hezbollah" sounds so much of an excuse to intervene - but it took them long enough to figure out, Israel has been substantially silent till now (this also is not conclusive in either sense)

just trying to guess what's going on ... the difficulty lies in the mix of rational and irrational features in all of the players' moves - except Syria, of course, who must be entirely rational to have a chance of survival

Posted by: claudio | Jul 16, 2012 7:10:16 PM | 29

it is interesting that Walter, above, seems to believe
the Syrian government is not as smart as certain conspiracy theorists, namely him, and will trust Arab media it he doesn't.

Posted by: amspirnational | Jul 16, 2012 7:11:41 PM | 30

Penny's take, over at her blog, is that the Western MCM (Mainstream Corporate Media) is admitting the most recent "massacre" was more in line with what the Syrian government described in order to get to the point of labeling the violence inside Syria as a bona fide "Civil War."

And the Red Cross just came out with that description of what's going on.

Per Penny, having the Syrian opposition's rebellion labeled a civil war allows the application of Geneva Conventions (which the US goes along with on a pick and choose basis, of course) to fighting inside Syria. And perhaps can lead to the "humanitarian intervention" so dearly desired by some in the West.

I was listening to the BBC last night and into early morning when I heard not only that the Red Cross was saying Syria was in a civil war, but also heard a report about the influence of Al Qaeda fighters inside Syria. It was a longish piece, with the upshot being that, yes, Al Q was there, but it was impossible to know how much influence they had on others groups within the FSA. And they might create violence against the government and civilians, but, there weren't many of them.

It seemed almost as if the reporter was trying to make Western listeners feel it would be OK to keep sending arms and armaments to the FSA because, gee, there are just those few Al Q types, so nothing to worry about folks. Just move along and let us get on with bringing down Assad's government. Now, I may have dozed off during this report, so if anyone more fully awake --or who could find a repeat or write up of the report-- heard it differently, please add your take on it.


Posted by: jawbone | Jul 16, 2012 7:27:57 PM | 31

well a civil war is different from an armed insurgency; in a way, it automatically legitimizes also the opposition; Penny might be on to something

Posted by: claudio | Jul 16, 2012 7:44:59 PM | 32

I see a ray of sunshine! Lavrov said 16 Jul 2012 he does not expect the Syrian government forces to agree to withdraw from cities and villages (and he said the callers for such a thing aim at complicating the situation further). http://www.syriaonline.sy/?f=Details&catid=12&pageid=2984

Posted by: Parviziyi | Jul 16, 2012 7:51:53 PM | 33

As noted in the previous thread by "Brian", Sergei Lavrov said on 16 Jul 2012: "Trying to persuade Assad to leave office is unrealistic. Assad will not step down because he has the support of the majority of the Syrian people." http://www.rt.com/news/blackmail-resolution-syria-lavrov-255/ , http://www.syriaonline.sy/?f=Details&catid=12&pageid=2984

Similarly on 13 Jul 2012, the Co-Chairman of the Russian Committee for Solidarity with the Syrian People, Oleg Fomin said: "President al-Assad has the support of the majority of the Syrian people." http://sana.sy/eng/22/2012/07/12/431074.htm

On 10 Jul 2012, the Chairman of the Russian parliament's foreign affairs committe, Alexei Puskov said: "There's a civil war going on in Syria and it's only the opposition that's benefitting from it.... I'm convinced that most Syrians don't want this conflict." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NckTD40479Q

Here are some indicators of the Assad government's political support among the generality of the Syrian population. I expect you're already aware of them because these indicators are well-known, and are easy to state in summary form: The turnout in the nationwide elections in Syria on 12 Dec 2011, 26 Feb 2012, and 7 May 2012, and the voting results in those elections; the broad and unequivocal support the government has been getting from the Sunni clerical leadership (plus the clerical leadership of the minority sects); the broad and unequivocal support the government has among the banking, commerce and private-sector managerial class; all of the Syria-based TV, radio and newspaper media with large market share are pro-government; the turnout at anti-government street protests has been small in relation to the overall population size; the abhorrence that most citizens, when asked, express for the breakdown of basic security and the acts of violence against Syria's security forces; the fact that when rebels become the dominant force in any neighborhood, most of the local residents flee from the neighborhood and almost all the local shopkeepers close down their shops. Each of those indicators stands up to scrutiny and questioning by doubters, and are powerful indicators individually and collectively.

Meanwhile you can still find many Western commentators who have the belief that the Assad government has a lack of legitimacy and a lack of wide support among the generality of the Syrian population. This is an ill-founded and mistaken belief. There is no convincing evidence from Syria to support it, and the key problem with such Western commentators is that they don't have the tools to look into Syrian political society to find the evidence about the question one way or another.

For the preponderance of the Syrian population, the Assad government does not have a legitimacy problem; it has a violent insurgency problem from illegitimate rebels.

Posted by: Parviziyi | Jul 16, 2012 8:17:02 PM | 34

Maybe this explains why the Western MCM was reporting such concern among, principally, US government and DOD, but other countries as well, that Syria was moving its chemical weapons out of storage or previous storage locations. [And they knew this how? Another report said US DOD was very concerned that no one's special ops inside Syria or spies knew where the chem weapons were....]

BBC is reporting that the former Syrian ambassador to Iraq, the one who recently defected, is saying that if cornered Assad will definitely use chem weapons.

Upping the ante for intervention?

Posted by: jawbone | Jul 16, 2012 9:44:11 PM | 35

Dont think there will be any intervention until after election, at least not open interventions

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9404452/US-refuses-to-help-Syrian-rebels-until-after-election.html

Posted by: Nikon | Jul 16, 2012 11:36:11 PM | 36

If there is nothing wrong with Israel stockpiling nuclear weapons, then there should be nothing wrong with Syria stockpiling chemical weapons. The al-Akhbar piece was hinting that some of those chemicals may have found their way to Lebanon and may already be among the missiles aimed at Israel and the reason behind Israel being jittery about attacking anyone. Al-Akhbar stressed the 3-way alliance in effect between Iran, Syria and Hezbollah; attack one of them and all 3 would retaliate. Nasrallah known for not bluffing said that the Hezb's missiles can reach any part of Israel and that the next big battle would be in TA. The US and Israel tried to move on Iran by begining on Hezbollah in 2006 and failed, now they are back at it again by first dismantling Syria.

Posted by: www | Jul 17, 2012 12:43:47 AM | 37

After 15,000 dead, we're still playing word games on whether or not we should be calling it a civil war or an armed insurgency. It's ridiculous.

Posted by: www | Jul 17, 2012 12:48:38 AM | 38

no38 www, the three way alliance thing is not true. Hezbollah was supported by Syria and Iran but they fought it alone.
They are very clever about escalation, that is they will answer in kind, but not with more.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 17, 2012 1:44:49 AM | 39

"Will there be another trick the U.S. will try to get its will? Could the unconfirmed allegation by anonymous western officials about the movement of chemical arms within Syria be used to create another fake event that the Syrian government can then be accused of?"


Or maybe an ex-ambassador? who will also claim:


"He also said that major bombings across Syria had been orchestrated by the regime in collaboration with al-Qaeda."


Syria: Assad regime 'ready to use chemical weapons'

Posted by: Rod | Jul 17, 2012 2:27:51 AM | 40

Looks like the US government is well positioned to be taken over by the pentagon military junta

http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/40769/
http://fabiusmaximus.wordpress.com/2012/07/16/70807/

Posted by: Nikon | Jul 17, 2012 2:47:30 AM | 41

New Syria : seems Syrian Electronic Army (a group of Syrian patriotic activists) have screwed Anonymous 'neatly':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=D0T-uBJS-EI
'Anonymous' gets its ass kicked!

Posted by: brian | Jul 17, 2012 3:36:02 AM | 42

“The Syrian opposition: who’s doing the talking?” by Charlie Skelton is a devastating report about the connections between the Syrian opposition and the US, British, French intelligence services, and top US neo-cons. Tracing the formation of the Syrian National Council and the appointment of its leading personnel to long-standing and well-funded plans for regime change in Syria. These plans date back to 2005 and are funded by Washington.

Link to article referred to above...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/12/syrian-opposition-doing-the-talking

Posted by: Kim Sky | Jul 17, 2012 3:46:52 AM | 43

Somebody #39, that was in 2006 but since then, more serious military alliances have been formed. They all know how the game would be played. No matter which of the 3 is attacked first, attacks on the other 2 would follow. Knowing this, they are going to be reacting with much more than in kind. It's an issue of survival for them so they can't wait and do nothing until their number comes up. Tomorrow's speech by Nasrallah should be interesting.

Posted by: www | Jul 17, 2012 5:11:38 AM | 44

Rod #40, the ambassador leaving his droppings left and right also told the Independent that he, on behalf of the Syrian government, planned and had executed suicide missions by al-qaeda in Iraq. I wouldn't be surprised if they start putting him on all the American talk shows.

Posted by: www | Jul 17, 2012 5:43:46 AM | 45

Christoph Hörstel, who is in Damascus at the moment, predicts NATO air raids and an invasion on the ground for this weekend.

Posted by: m_s | Jul 17, 2012 6:18:51 AM | 46

All major german newspapers have been hinting at "Assad might possibly use chemical weapons" for the last day or two.
I'd guess that our terrorist human rights activists wouldn't mind using those, should they get their hands on some. Oh wait. There are some libyan chemo weapons missing?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/22/libyan-rebels-gaddafis-chemical-weapons

Posted by: peter radiator | Jul 17, 2012 8:03:12 AM | 47

#46
any sources for this statement of his? Hörstel seems to me like quite a sensible guy - he's one of the few I take as somewhat trustworthy.

Posted by: peter radiator | Jul 17, 2012 8:05:20 AM | 48

Austrian radio, too. Sounds like a reason for war to me. Otherwise it would not make sense to young guys to fight to death in Damascus.

Posted by: somebody | Jul 17, 2012 8:07:40 AM | 49

"All major german newspapers have been hinting at "Assad might possibly use chemical weapons" for the last day or two."

that is because the majority of German News media is firmly in the control of Zionists and or their fellow travellers - Axel Springer GMbh for instance, publisher/owners of a large slice of the German Media Market, actually has a clause in it's employment contracts that states that employees must agree to promote the interests of Israel. I kid you not.

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 8:11:10 AM | 50

might as well be that they just take the same ap/afp/dpa press agency news.

Posted by: peter radiator | Jul 17, 2012 8:25:19 AM | 51

@51 sure - as long as you're prepared to argue that "Syria has dangerous stockpiles of Chemical Weapons" is NOT a Zionist meme

same ap/afp/dpa press agency news.

and these organisations do not disseminate Zionist memes?

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 8:33:09 AM | 52

A very interesting video, well worth a viewing, if only to watch all the other leaders laugh at "crazy" Gaddafi, as he predicts the future

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZZvPlGCt_8

various people around here would have attacked as 'conspriacy nutters' 'supporters of a dictator'( (etc etc ad infinitum) anyone that dared point out at the time of this speech that Gaddafi was 100% right

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 8:38:45 AM | 53

I can't see why this "meme" should be specifically zionist or even untrue.
Either way, newspapers build up plausibility clues for "Assad murdering his people with chemical weapons".
You've heard rumors two day before, so it seems more likely now.

Posted by: peter radiator | Jul 17, 2012 8:40:46 AM | 54

and "Yes! I KNOW it's from MEMRI" so please don't bother wasting your time and mine, pointing that out to me as it won't change the veracity of the content either way. Thanking you all in advance

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 8:41:56 AM | 55

"I can't see why this "meme" should be specifically zionist or even untrue."

Well the zio-nuts have been pimping the shit ouuta that meme before anyone else - they use it to scare the living daylights out of Jewish people, both in Israel and in the US, so as to tighten their control on the Jewish population worldwide -

And no one said it was 'untrue' - in fact it IS most likely true that Syria has stockpiles of Chemical Weapons BUT "SO What??"

What goes unmentioned in ALL the Zionist controlled/influenced Press - (German/Austrian or otherwise) is that "SO DOES ISRAEL!!", it's immediate neighbour to the South-West - and when a nation as psychopathic and schizophrenic as Israel has stockpiles of chemical Weapons, Syria would be MAD not to also have them too

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 8:49:39 AM | 56

ok

Posted by: peter radiator | Jul 17, 2012 8:50:59 AM | 57

It doesn't seem likely for UK to support a war right before the olympics.

Posted by: Nikon | Jul 17, 2012 9:48:23 AM | 58

58

what better time?

Posted by: brian | Jul 17, 2012 10:21:05 AM | 59

Ghaddafi was a court jester

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Court_Jester

Posted by: somebody | Jul 17, 2012 10:24:10 AM | 60

@48

I found the short note on steinbergrecherche.com. He claims to have received an e-mail from Hörstel.

Posted by: m_s | Jul 17, 2012 10:25:15 AM | 61

@58:

So, when did the Russian-Georgian War start? When did the monks in Tibet start their uprising? When did Timoshenko's imprisonment (in a prison world of her own design!) become important?

Posted by: m_s | Jul 17, 2012 10:30:26 AM | 62

>>> It doesn't seem likely for UK to support a war right before the olympics.>>>

Olympians are preoccupied with other things; this year the Committee distributed 100,000 free condoms for use by the olympians. For the last olympics in Sydney, the initial order was only 70,000 but they had to re-order an additional 20,000. La vie est belle.

http://www.francetvinfo.fr/jo-de-londres-100-000-preservatifs-prevus-pour-le-village-olympique_119307.html

Posted by: www | Jul 17, 2012 10:56:22 AM | 63

@ 60

so you have nothing to say about the content of the video and apparently seek to dismiss it, the content, by attacking the messenger.

hmmmmm

Maybe he was - Though why anyone should pay any attention to YOUR opinion is a mystery - Ghaddaffi led a successful movement against hostile Western Imperialism for years in Libya and, FOR the MAJORITY of THE LIBYAN people, SIGNIFICANTLY raised ALL the metrics by which 'standard of Living' and 'Quality of Life' are measured - (What the F**k have YOU done to compare to that? ;-) but it in no way negates the content of the message - that you would seek to blithely dismiss it in the condescending fashion you have chosen to indicates to me at least that you are unable to cobble together a coherent argument against the content of the video in question and have chosen to make cheap character attacks instead

Wiki link ffs - "Wikipedia (and Wikileaks too!) , the first port-of-call of the clueless, the world over!" - like any intelligent person should give a damn what Wiki(leaks/pedia) has to say on any subject

Basically every word the man said was true, and his predictions have in the main turned out to be completely correct - I notice you have avoided like-the-plague addressing THAT part of my earlier comment - (though I'm sure you or some of the more anally-retentive scholars of semantics around here will pour over the content to try and find one (just one) word/phrase with which they can argue, in a lame attempt to justify ignoring the message


Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 11:09:29 AM | 64

@60-

actually that fact that you would seek to pimp the 'alternative' MSM narrative of Ghaddaffi (the alternative to the 'Ghaddaffi is a Madman and a monster!!' narrative) causes me to wonder if you really are a shallow as your comment at #60 indicates ?

the fact that my highlighting of just how prescient Ghaddaffi was causes you to immediately react in the fashion you did, certainly casts serious doubt on any ability you may think you possess to perceive when you are being fed a line of bullshit

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 11:16:15 AM | 65

Hu Bris, apart from making useless posts every 5 mn, could you stop insulting everyone who doesn't "think" like you ? thanks you alone in advance.

Posted by: rototo | Jul 17, 2012 12:01:22 PM | 66

Hu Bris, everything Gaddafi said made sense. It's sad that Bashar Assad and Amr Moussa kept laughing throughout the speech since there was nothing funny being said. The Gulf sheikhs and the Algerian President looked very uncomfortable because most of Gaddafi's darts were meant for them.

Gaddafi did a lot for Libya where he raised the standard of living among the highest in the Arab world, if not the highest. He did even more for his African continent and he was on his way to have it released from imperialism's grip. But he also had his faults. He financed insurgencies in several countries which made him unpopular among other rulers. Nonetheless, he carried on like clown whether in the odd way he dressed, or with the corps of Rumanian femal personal bodyguards that he kept, or with the pitching of his bedouin tent in all of the world's capitals that he visited. He loved to carry on like a court jester.

His horrible end orchestrated by the US and NATO was just as wrong as Saddam's public hanging.

Posted by: www | Jul 17, 2012 12:33:52 PM | 67

rototo you are a sad little troll that appears to acquire an instant boner every time I post - if you don't like it don't read it - personally I don't really give a damn what you have to say on any subject, and I certainly won't be adapting my posting style to stem the torrent of cry-baby whining from some sad fuck sockpuppet (i mean it's 50-50 you're either POA or ruralito, dude you ain't fooling anyone with the sockpuppets, m'Kay?)

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 12:35:22 PM | 68

that is what court jesters do, they speak truth to power ....

Posted by: somebody | Jul 17, 2012 12:58:54 PM | 69

but ghaddaffi was a LOT more than someone that merely spoke truth to power - and you damn well know it

He showed by concrete example that African and Arab countries do not have to be basket cases, that Oil wealth can be redistributed, that Africans and Arabs can organise to solve their own issues without western interference.

And that is why people like you seek to trivialise him - so that you don't have to acknowledge his very many very real achievements

and don't pretend that you didn't realise the negative connotations of 'Court Jester' - another word for it is 'fool'

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 1:07:54 PM | 70

interestingly a lenghty post of mine detailing Ghaddaffi's real achievements (far beyond the 'speaking truth to power' that people like somebody would have you accept is some sort of reasonable view of Ghaddaffi) just disappeared after I posted it - perhaps it's the google anti-spam filters or perhaps just unexplainable digital gremlins - but it was curious to me that an actual list of Ghaddaffis achievements was the only post of mine to disappear in recent months-

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 1:23:47 PM | 71

@rototo, I second your motion, and hope Hu bris heeds the advice

at regular intervals, someone here at MoA, probably misinterpreting the overall polite attitude of its posters, thinks he can promote himself as the toughest guy on the block and starts barking and pissing all over the place; the sooner he learns how to behave, the better for all; we like our bar clean

@somebody, I agree with Hu bris over Gaddafi; he was a patriot and a political leader; in the last part of his life he viewed himself more as an African than an Arab leader, and I see his overthrow as a tragedy for the continent, and as a new chapter in the old story of its exploitation at the hands of European and Arabs

Posted by: claudio | Jul 17, 2012 1:35:34 PM | 72

Hu Bris, I used to refer to the guy as "fruitcake" but it didn't mean he didn't deserve appreciation or respect for the good work he was doing. Gaddafi was a strong supporter of the Palestinian cause. He was also a backer of one of the warring militias in the Lebanese civil war and very much against stopping it which was his reason for making the Shia Imam Moussa al-Sadr disappear and why the Shia of Iran and Lebanon hated him so much. Imam Mousa al-Sadr was the cousin of Imam Moqtada al-Sadr of Iraq.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/fall-of-qaddafi-may-uncover-answer-to-mystery-of-missing-lebanese-imam-mousa-al-sadr

Posted by: www | Jul 17, 2012 1:38:11 PM | 73

oh well, I suggest this here is a fair and knowledgable summary of what Ghaddafi was doing:
- it is from the part of the left that is capable of using their brains ...

http://junge-linke.org/en/insane-my-arse-muammar-gaddafi-historical-sketch-his-national-project

An idealist of democracy and a dictator

Gaddafi assumed power together with other military officers but in the course of the 1970s he ousted other military leaders and became the de facto autocrat. At the same time he became detached from his earlier role model Nasser, the president of Egypt, and began to create his own “concept of socialism”. This included the idea of the immediate “people’s authority” which was to replace political parties (actually, there had been only one party before) and the military regime. These ideas resulted from his analysis of other forms of government: in the Colonel’s opinion parliamentary democracy was a scam and he criticised parties and parliaments for manipulating the “true will of the people”. The Soviet system, on the contrary, did not find his approval because of its “one-class-dictatorship”.

The Libyan alternative was the Jamahiriya, the authority of the masses. A “true” democracy could only be a direct one, was the new slogan. With his pompous indictments of parliamentary representatives, and their alleged ineptitude in divining the real desires of the people, Gaddafi was able to touch the hearts of a great many left-wingers. His idea that a truly unified people would have one uniform will that a determined leadership would simply have to put into practice pointed to the Fascist aspect of the nation state in the concept of Jamahiriya.

Left and right-wing pilgrims alike enthusiastically spread the word about the unity that existed between the people and the Leader of the Revolution. In practice, political decisions were still taken by delegates. But all decisions of the “people’s committees” could be quashed by the “revolutionary leadership” (i.e., by Gaddafi) and were, on top of that, subject to the close scrutiny of “revolutionary committees” comprised of loyal subjects.

Gaddafi managed to paint any kind of politics that he did not agree with as “undemocratic” similar to how the “free West” does it. As a critic of every form of representation and delegation, he claimed to perceive and channel the unified voice of the people. It was this voice that over the years was the mainstay and validation of his benevolent reign.

Despite all ideological ideas of “one people” however, political and economic conflicts of interest were continuously produced and reproduced among the Libyan population so that the state again and again felt compelled to enforce the purported interests of the people.
A butcher of communists and a partner of the Eastern Bloc" ...

By the way, what was Gaddafi thinking when he funded Sarkozy?

Posted by: somebody | Jul 17, 2012 2:11:17 PM | 74

@Hu Bris, for someone who thinks he's brillant, you just piled up one more paranoid stupidity of yours, you can ask the chief here as I'm always using the single same french STATIC ip here for long months , can hardly be called a proxy collection, m'kay ? ^^ (Paris here, I can see the main french TV tower by my window (TF1), I can take a photo to calm down your nonsense if it can help to reconnect you to reality.

Posted by: rototo | Jul 17, 2012 2:29:54 PM | 75

from somebody's link @74:

His idea that a truly unified people would have one uniform will that a determined leadership would simply have to put into practice pointed to the Fascist aspect of the nation state in the concept of Jamahiriya
Now, why call Fascism what really appeared, in modern politics, as Giacobinism? The worse accusation you could move to a fellow revolutionary was that of organizing a faction or a party.

Posted by: claudio | Jul 17, 2012 2:43:17 PM | 76

The present question is the FSA attack upon Damascus. Will it succeed?

Surprising that the FSA committed itself so early. Sounds like they were influenced by what happened in Libya.

My first impression is that they will be defeated. If they were to win, as in Tripoli, there would be no question of their majority support.

If defeated, there are two possible paths. One is that they will have exhausted their strength. Two is that they will have exhausted their strength, but shaken the regime, and encouraged more to defect.

Me, I find it bizarre to exhaust your strength without a certainty of what's coming after. I don't understand their plan. No doubt that will come out in the near future.

Posted by: alexno | Jul 17, 2012 3:46:14 PM | 77

Nikon #58 said "It doesn't seem likely for UK to support a war right before the olympics." That prompts me to reiterate and expand upon a comment I made a few days ago on this board.

A government of a democratic country can't threaten other countries credibly if it lacks democratic support at home for carrying out the threat. On the other hand, if a threat by a democratic government is provably backed up by support from the bulk of the electorate in supporting carrying out the threat, that's a very credible threat. It is more credible than a threat by any government -- whether democratic or non-democratic -- in a country where the general population's views about the threat are underdetermined and murky.

UK foreign minister William Hague on approx 7 Feb 2012 said of the Syrian government: "This is a doomed regime as well as a murdering regime. There is no way it can get its credibility back internationally or with its own people. When you realise that, you see what a mistake Russia is making by backing this regime." http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vYSUDDgxRQ4#t=63s . In the months since then, the UK foreign minister has said at least once that a Western-led military attack was an option that is and should be kept in the deck of cards in playing the game against the Syrian government. That's a threat, you know.

However, a UK public opinion survey conducted in mid-June 2012 (sponsored by Chatham House) asked the question: "Thinking about popular uprisings (such as in Libya, Egypt and Syria) in which citizens attempt to overthrow a dictator, which ONE of these statements comes closest to your view?"
(A) Britain has a moral responsibility to support such uprisings regardless of whether it benefits Britain’s national interests: 23 percent of respondents
(B) Britain should only support such uprisings if it benefits Britain’s national interests: 20 percent of respondents
(C) Britain should not involve itself at all in such uprisings: 43 percent of respondents
(D) Don't know: 15 percent of respondents

Among the respondents who said they vote for the UK Conservative Party in UK elections, 46 percent picked the option that Britain should not involve itself at all in such uprisings even if it would benefit Britain's national interests.

The same opinion survey asked: "Would you say that the [current UK] coalition government has changed UK foreign policy for the better, for the worse, or has made no difference?" Only 6 percent of respondents said it had changed it for the better while 32 percent said it had changed it for the worse. http://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/public/Research/Europe/0712ch_yougov_survey_0.pdf

That makes Hague's threat much less credible. His government couldn't bomb Syria without more public support, but if his government were to up its propaganda to try to up public support, it'd likely backfire on them, and weaken them in the next UK general election contest, which they ernestly desire to win, and so they can't really up their propaganda either, judging from the above opinion survey results.

Posted by: Parviziyi | Jul 17, 2012 4:22:43 PM | 78

76 claudio

http://books.google.de/books?id=mr44vcDDxrkC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&d#v=onepage&q&f=false
Fascism - What it is and how to fight it
"in this sense, fascism is a caricature of Jacobinism ..."

Posted by: somebody | Jul 17, 2012 4:26:45 PM | 79

alexno, you forget that the Libyan rebels had NATO ...

I am not sure the Syrian rebels started it, my guess is the Syrian government is now in extinction mode. I am also not sure how professional they really are, like could they keep themselves away from modern communication devices ... this is what interested parties can do - and the Syrians have more than enough equipment to do that ... when you insist on carrying your mobile ...
http://www.zeit.de/datenschutz/malte-spitz-data-retention

Posted by: somebody | Jul 17, 2012 4:40:25 PM | 80

I believe you can do your own interpretation of the following info. (But don't overinterpret, please).

23 Jun 2012, SANA: A clash in al-Mereia neighborhood in Deir Ezzor city against a terrorist group driving 10 stolen cars who attacked civilians and law-enforcement. The security authorities killed the terrorists and destroyed the 10 cars. sana.sy/eng/337/2012/06/23/427186.htm

25 Jun 2012, SANA: A clash in al-Shuhadaa neighborhood in Deir Ezzor city against terrorists who were in 5 pickup trucks equipped with machineguns. The authorities killed the terrorists and destroyed their cars. sana.sy/eng/337/2012/06/25/427519.htm

26 Jun 2012, SANA: A clash in al-Jbaileh neighborhood in Deir Ezzor city resulted in killing dozens of terrorists. All members of the groups led by terrorists Mahmoud al-Nayef, Nizam Rabei, Ali al-Dgheim and Mohammad al-Abras were killed in the clash. sana.sy/eng/337/2012/06/25/427301.htm

27 Jun 2012, SANA: A clash with terrorists in Al-Mwazfeen neighborhood of Deir Ezzor city had the outcome that many terrorists were killed or arrested by the authorities. sana.sy/eng/337/2012/06/27/428024.htm

30 Jun 2012, SANA: Authorities clashed with terrorists in al-Hamidiyyeh and al-Ardi neighborhoods in Deir Ezzor city and killed scores of the terrorists. sana.sy/eng/337/2012/06/30/428491.htm . In addition in Bour Said neighborhood the authorities clashed with terrorists driving a pick-up truck equipped with a machinegun and the terrorists were killed. sana.sy/eng/337/2012/06/30/428407.htm

1 Jul 2012, SANA: In al-Hamydiya and al-Sheikh Miskeen areas in Deir Ezzor city authorities clashed with an armed terrorist group, killing or wounding many terrorists. Separately five terrorists were killed while planting an IED in the al-Ardi area in the Deir Ezzor city. sana.sy/eng/337/2012/07/01/428636.htm

2 Jul 2012, SANA: In Deir Ezzor city, the authorities clashed with terrorist groups in the neighborhoods of al-Hamidiye and al-Jbeileh, killing a number of them and injuring others. The clash resulted in the destruction of a car equipped with a mounted machinegun, and four other cars used by the terrorists. sana.sy/eng/337/2012/07/02/428904.htm

3 Jul 2012, SANA: Authorities in Deir Ezzor city successfully clashed with terrorists in al-Jubailiyeh, al-Arafi and al-Sina'a neighborhoods in the city. sana.sy/eng/337/2012/07/03/429083.htm

5 Jul 2012, SANA: Authorities successfully clashed with an armed terrorist group in al-Sena'a neighborhood in Deir Ezzor. sana.sy/eng/337/2012/07/05/429718.htm

13 Jul 2012, SANA: In the Deir al-Ateeq neighborhood in Deir Ezzor city an armed terrorist group attacked citizens and law-enforcement forces. In the ensuing clash that was brought to them by the authorities, the terrorists suffered heavy losses. sana.sy/eng/337/2012/07/13/431220.htm

13 Jul 2012, SANA: Robert Mood said: "Encouraging progress has been made by the parties in Deir Ezzor. We observe a significant reduction of violence and growing confidence in a possible step by step approach to stop violence." sana.sy/eng/21/2012/07/13/431261.htm

Posted by: Parviziyi | Jul 17, 2012 5:01:30 PM | 81

re somebody 80

alexno, you forget that the Libyan rebels had NATO ...

I am not sure the Syrian rebels started it, my guess is the Syrian government is now in extinction mode.

No, I didn't forget what happened in Libya; and no, I am aware of the prospects of the Baathist regime in Syria.

In the end it depends upon what the majority of Syrians think. The attack upon Damascus is a sort of national referendum. If it succeeds, there's no doubt that nobody supports the regime. If it fails, we're going to argue why it was.

Posted by: alexno | Jul 17, 2012 5:28:01 PM | 82

The sudden rebel attacks in Damascus comes after they've suffered heavy losses in the countryside..It's aimed at diverting a bit of the pressure they've come under in recent days.

I personally don't believe they can survive for too long..Most of their local commanders have either been killed or in hiding. They also have a very weak strategy..They terrorize a small neighbourhood into supporting them..Anybody that refuses is killed.

Secular Sunnis wouldn't want of live under Salafi run government like in Saudi Arabia..The more reason the rebels won't win. What they're doing now is to cause chaos and hope that people lose hope and support them.

Posted by: Zico | Jul 17, 2012 5:34:18 PM | 83

Kim Sky @ 43

Good read, nice article you linked there. Well done.

Posted by: Alexander | Jul 17, 2012 5:50:42 PM | 84

According to the latest BBC news, the rebels have fled from Damascus. We'll see if it's true.

I'm not surprised. Damascus is not ready to hand itself over.

Posted by: alexno | Jul 17, 2012 5:53:56 PM | 85

alexno @ 84

The rebels CANNOT take Damascus without a massive NATO bombardment like they did in Libya..What they're doing now it to test the temperature and also divert a bit of attention from their recent defeats.

It doesn't take much to do what they're doing..Just get a few fanatics, give them guns and tell them to go shoot up a neighbourhood.."Activist" are always ready to report it in MSM for maximum propaganda impact..They may loose some of their men in this latest desperate operation but they also use the media attention to boost their morale after the heavy pressure they're under.

The BBC will report they've fled..But in reality, most of them have been killed and the lucky once are in hiding..I will expect the neighbourhood they attacked to be in lock-down mode by now..

Posted by: Zico | Jul 17, 2012 6:01:47 PM | 86

The latest BBC report, at 11 pm British time, says that some of the rebels are surrounded, and others have fled.

The question is: have the rebels exhausted their resources in attacking Damascus, or not. I've heard of people being sent from Dar'a for the attack, which suggests that it was a major effort.

Posted by: alexno | Jul 17, 2012 6:17:50 PM | 87

Somebody @ 60,

Court jester? Please.

More like Napoleon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1m5Q09eEqY

This film is 222 minutes long and meant to be shown on 3 screens.

I could see Gaddafi playing the role before Obama.

Posted by: Walter Wit Man | Jul 17, 2012 6:42:34 PM | 88

@ 74
"suggest this here is a fair and knowledgable summary of what Ghaddafi was doing:
- it is from the part of the left that is capable of using their brains ..."

well you can 'suggest' all you want, but considering that just about all the Left (official or otherwise) behaved shamefully during the NATO attack on Libya, any criticism from them is not worth a damn.

So since you found a left site that attacks Ghaddaffi like you do, a large swathe of the left has suddenly been rehabilitated in your view?

First he was merely 'a court jester' according to you and then when called on that, you switch to pretending that you were merely using that phrase to refer to him 'speaking truth to power, but now that you found someone on the left with a view as twisted as your own, he suddenly morphs right into a Fascist.

Well done - you have throughly contorted your self right back into the dishonest individual I initially pegged you to be - and you did it all without once yourself acknowledging any of the the massive and pretty much unprecedented rises in Literacy rates, life expectancy and income per head, not to mention the redistribution of Oil Wealth to supply free health care, free education.

You're a joke - one in particularly bad taste to boot.

do you get paid to spout that nonsense, somebody? because all you've done on this subject is quite knowingly spout the propaganda of the MSM, while completely unconvincingly pretending to be merely claiming that Ghaddaffi 'spoke truth to power' and then you performed the most hypocritical about turn by lauding some lefties after you had completely disparaged the left a day or two ago all because they like you are also pimping Anti-Ghaddaffi/pro-imperialist propaganda

It strikes me as particularly ironic these completely useless and from an anti-imperialist pov, utterly ineffectual lefties, that for the most part haven't so much as one real 'socialist' political achievement worthy of the name, and all of whom no doubt hail from nations that are themselves involved in imperialism, something which these useless lefty assholes have not managed to prevent or even slow-down one little bit, (just like the majority of Europe's Left parties that would condemn Ghaddaffi), should attack someone that actually has stood up to real live life-threatening imperialism, is sickening in the extreme. But it is of course completely in keeping with the all-round uselessness of the Left for anything other than themselves providing cover for Western Imperialism by attacking as 'not saintly enough' anyone actually daring to stand up to the psychopatic West

That somebody has found common ground with these utterly useless leftists is no surprise at all

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 6:48:41 PM | 89

@ 74
"suggest this here is a fair and knowledgable summary of what Ghaddafi was doing:
- it is from the part of the left that is capable of using their brains ..."

well you can 'suggest' all you want, but considering that just about all the Left (official or otherwise) behaved shamefully during the NATO attack on Libya, any criticism from them is not worth a damn.

So since you found a left site that attacks Ghaddaffi like you do, a large swathe of the left has suddenly been rehabilitated in your view?

First he was merely 'a court jester' according to you and then when called on that, you switch to pretending that you were merely using that phrase to refer to him 'speaking truth to power, but now that you found someone on the left with a view as twisted as your own, he suddenly morphs right into a Fascist.

Well done - you have throughly contorted your self right back into the dishonest individual I initially pegged you to be - and you did it all without once yourself acknowledging any of the the massive and pretty much unprecedented rises in Literacy rates, life expectancy and income per head, not to mention the redistribution of Oil Wealth to supply free health care, free education.

You're a joke - one in particularly bad taste to boot.

do you get paid to spout that nonsense, somebody? because all you've done on this subject is quite knowingly spout the propaganda of the MSM, while completely unconvincingly pretending to be merely claiming that Ghaddaffi 'spoke truth to power' and then you performed the most hypocritical about turn by lauding some lefties after you had completely disparaged the left a day or two ago all because they like you are also pimping Anti-Ghaddaffi/pro-imperialist propaganda

It strikes me as particularly ironic these completely useless and from an anti-imperialist pov, utterly ineffectual lefties, that for the most part haven't so much as one real 'socialist' political achievement worthy of the name, and all of whom no doubt hail from nations that are themselves involved in imperialism, something which these useless lefty assholes have not managed to prevent or even slow-down one little bit, (just like the majority of Europe's Left parties that would condemn Ghaddaffi), should attack someone that actually has stood up to real live life-threatening imperialism, is sickening in the extreme. But it is of course completely in keeping with the all-round uselessness of the Left for anything other than themselves providing cover for Western Imperialism by attacking as 'not saintly enough' anyone actually daring to stand up to the psychopatic West

That somebody has found common ground with these utterly useless leftists is no surprise at all

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 6:48:54 PM | 90

dbl post - including this one that'll make 3 in a row which should give that rototo troll a truly astonishing erection, no doubt

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 6:53:34 PM | 91

dbl post - including this one that'll make 3 in a row which should give that rototo troll a truly astonishing erection, no doubt

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 6:53:40 PM | 92

hahahah - don't blame me - I blame google - the troll will have a fine rant after this

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 6:55:18 PM | 93

"The rebels CANNOT take Damascus without a massive NATO bombardment like they did in Libya.."

as long as the Russians will supply Syria with defensive Anti-Aircraft weapons there will be no NATO bombardment of Syria - the psychopaths cannot risk the world discovering that their bloated-Military tech ain't all it's cracked up to be. Bombing nations starved of access to modern weaponry, such as Iraq was for years, is one thing, but the Russkies seem determined to to provide syria with the means to defend itself.

And since the West is addicted to attacking those that cannot fight back, an all out NATO attack is off the cards indefinitely

Of course all that would change were the Russians and the yanks prepared to do some sort of deal - though that seems at the moments to be a highly unlikely proposition, since I fail to see what the Yanks might be able to offer that the Russians might be remotely interested in, given the importance of Syria right now, both strategically and symbolically, to the Russians

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 7:06:33 PM | 94

Doesn't look like the russkies will be backing down on either Syria or Iran any time soon

Russian Central Bank Ready to Make Due Payments to Iran

TEHRAN (FNA)- A senior Russian economic official announced that the country's Central Bank is ready to make due payments to Iranian parties.

Russian Head of Iran-Russia Joint Trade Council Yuri Papoyev made the remarks on Tuesday on the sidelines of the first meeting of the two countries' regional cooperation workgroup in Tabriz city, Northwestern Iran.

The Russian move would circumvent the western sanctions against Tehran's financial and banking sector.

"After meetings with the Russian Central Bank officials, they agreed to make due payments and open LCs (Letters of Credit) for Iran in the least time possible," he told FNA, and further blasted the western sanctions against Iran.

Earlier, Chairman of Russia's Vneshtorgbank (VTB) Andrei Kostin lashed out at the US for imposing financial sanctions on Iran, stressing that the move violates the international laws.

The US financial and economic sanctions against Iran violate the charter of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), which demands free trade between all member states, Kostin told Russian TV channel RBK in June.

He criticized the US for manipulating its currency on the international markets, stressing that the move also breaches the principles of the IMF.

So that's a pretty strong 'F you' to the psycho-gangster NATO nations, by the looks of it

guess we can expect the pseudo-"Anti-imperialists" at http://junge-linke.org to publish an anti-Putin rant in the very near future . . . .

Posted by: Hu Bris | Jul 17, 2012 7:31:54 PM | 95

700 Jordanian Figures Condemn Premier's Statements on Foreign Intervention in Syria

AMMAN, (SANA)- Hundreds of Jordanian figures condemned the statements made by Jordan's Prime Minister Fayez al-Tarawneh on international intervention in Syria, stressing support to the Syrian people and their national leadership in the face of the conspiracy hatched against Syria.

Some 700 figures representing various Jordanian unionist, popular, parliamentary and national spectrums signed a statement proclaiming their stance in support of Syria in defending its people's unity and territorial integrity.

The statement warned that the Jordanian premier's statement that dialogue in Syria will no longer avail in resolving the crisis in it means that Jordan has officially shifted to the rank of the powers conspiring against Syria.

The statement reiterated the Jordanians' support to internal national dialogue in Syria as a means for achieving the economic, political and social reforms as this will safeguard Syria and its stance of resisting the Zionist-U.S. and Arab reactionist project.

It affirmed that Jordan's higher national and pan-Arab interests regarding what is going on in Syria demand that the Jordanians call for a solution in Syria that is through a Syrian internal national dialogue.

"We strongly reject an talk on foreign intervention in Syria under Chapter VII of the UN Charter," the statement added.

http://www.sana.sy/eng/22/2012/07/17/432099.htm

Posted by: brian | Jul 18, 2012 5:06:02 AM | 96

SANA news is down again..Seems the truth is making some people very uncomfortable..This is coming at the same day the UN is going to vote on another failed resolution with a sure Russia/China veto.

Posted by: Zico | Jul 18, 2012 5:46:28 AM | 97

Syria defense minister assassinated...No wonder SANA news is down...

Posted by: Zico | Jul 18, 2012 6:09:46 AM | 98

hard times... no way to protect yourself from fanatic suicide attackers. Very handy to control fanatic suicide attackers as part of an irregular army.

Posted by: peter radiator | Jul 18, 2012 6:52:33 AM | 99

Good thing the intelligence minister wasn't killed in this attack..There will be more bloodshed to come...

Posted by: Zico | Jul 18, 2012 7:01:29 AM | 100

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