November 15, 2011
Next Steps For #OWS
The police is clearing the Zuccotti Park in New York and other "occupied" places in other cities. A Ustream is here.
Judging from my personal experience with comparable movements this is likely to increase participation in the #QWS movement. The movement has already succeeded in moving the Overton window on various issues. There is now more discussion about banker fraud, unwarranted high CEO payments and general income inequality in the main stream media than has been for years.
The next steps should include coordinated weekly demonstrations all over the U.S. where people who do not have time to take part in occupations can show their solidarity with the movements aims.
What other steps do you suggest to keep #OWS growing and to increase its efficiency?
Posted by b on November 15, 2011 at 09:18 AM | Permalink
I don't think we can do anything more than the PTB are doing everyday... the corporate monsters are shitting on so many people (including each other) they build resentment both internally and externally and this will eventually lead to their demise.
I suppose it doesn't hurt to continually remind those near and dear to you that the MSM is mostly lies, half-truths at best... and that we're all in this together; rich, poor, young, old... anyone who is still on the side of law and order and the american way ;) Seriously, I think there are more and more people waking-up to the fact there is something seriously wrong, they just have been asleep for so long they can't figure-out exactly where the stench that woke them up is seeping in.
I wonder if this time in history things are going to be different?
Posted by: DaveS | Nov 15, 2011 9:34:22 AM | 1
Non-violence b. Hard to accomplish, but, very necessary for the movement to grow.
Posted by: ben | Nov 15, 2011 9:35:13 AM | 2
Judging from my experience with comparable movements this is likely to increase participation in the #QWS movement.
In Spain the Indignados never managed to regroup after clashes with the State. Today they have been infiltrated and been taken out by psuedo left similar like the SWP in Britain.
Posted by: hans | Nov 15, 2011 9:51:21 AM | 3
This is kinda on this thread... the right is waking-up and beginning to realize OWS might be their last hope of regaining the Idea of America (the propaganda we'd all love to believe)
Here is a link to a fresh thread over at market ticker that might be interesting to watch (the comments could get interesting):
There may be hope for our nation yet.
And this is worth a read:
We need more jurist like this fellow...
Posted by: DaveS | Nov 15, 2011 9:53:56 AM | 4
I think they should sell doughnuts and offer car washes, as well as Trademark the name and create a clothing line and line of food products using it. They can start by bottling and mass-producing the Bolognese sauce. Also, perhaps a professional expansion NFL team with the the name "Occupiers."
Posted by: Morocco Bama | Nov 15, 2011 10:01:30 AM | 5
Ok well their are a few ways to look at it.
Firstly it is to acknowledge that the American protests and European protests will likely take different paths (even if the goal ends up being similar). While the American protests are really just kicking off in the last 2-3 months almost all of Southern Europe has been in full scale riot-mode for over a year, London burned at the start of the summer and Paris will likely be the next tinderbox similar to the Paris riots of 2005. Also Europeans have a more militant left wing than Americans. I doubt you will see moltov cocktails hurled at police in New York for quiet a while (in my general experience Americans are to damned polite, and trusting, hard to see them taking a aggressive approach).
Secondly at a more practical level the steps they should take are to look into the past at previous revolutionary groupings. The French Revolution succeeded because of the grassroots organisation within the Paris Communes that were designed to help the poor and became thriving urban communities. Baader-Meinhof were able to operate and gather strenght from the large amount of squatters residences in Germany and from the organised student movements led by people like Rudi Dutschke. It's all about creating a network that can withstand police repression.
My advice would be to decentralise. If you have one single camp like Occuppy Wall St the police know where to go to break it up. If you move groups of 20-30 people into 6 or 12 foreclosed/abandoned buildings and create squatter homes linked into each other it becomes alot more difficult. With that kind of infrastructure you can then experiement with different approaches including maybe violent factions and non-violent factions. The people who insist on non-violent approaches are just handicapping themselves, as Bush said "All options are on the table" why would you want to remove methods and box yourself into one approach only? Better to have a full toolbox that allows you to adapt to evolving circumstances.
Posted by: Colm O' Toole | Nov 15, 2011 11:14:50 AM | 6
The greatest strength of OWS is it’s no-leadership, no-demands, organic structure.
The plutocrats are very confused by it, the pre-crimes division of the NYPD and the Federal Bureau of Intimidation had no target to attack!
Now slowly but surely like lava from a volcano, the plutocrats will have to give way to the 99% of America whom they have disenfranchised and marginalized, ever since they unleashed globalization and other forms of plutocratic pig toxins into the Main Street economy.
America's youth have decided to take the initiative as is their habit, and focus America's attention on the real problem, which is Wall Street's overly cozy and incestuous relationship with DC politicians.
Once America's attention is fully focused on the harmful and lasting effects of living under the iron fist of corporate plutocracy, then the DEMANDS by the 99%-ers can be made without so much of as a squeak or squeal from these ironclad pigs.
I thank GOD for these courageous, powerful, intelligent, ACTIVE young folks who are sacrificing themselves in order to save our collective sense of self!
They ought to have a monument made in their honor.
Posted by: Cynthia | Nov 15, 2011 12:24:46 PM | 7
Not singling any one in particular out... certainly not this fine blog. But the blogosphere in re US OWS has performed terribly over the last couple of months, imo. They do not know how to operate without a leader.. or celebrity to bash most of all... much less promote.
There are very few cogent discussions about how to frame this beyond how to do it inside the MSM or veal pen, existing political talking point friendly box. What people need are specifics.. very specific suggested legislation in re how to word effective de-personhood of corporations which simultaneously lead to all elements of people having a fair shake at electing representative governance. I'm having difficulty with admittedly rudimentary research skills at finding out which existing systems of elections exist with least corruption... and how they work. We need very specific, short cogent fact sheets ... simple dot connections that the basic TV viewer can connect when finally having face to face contact. The vast majority of people I meet in this movement are horribly under/misinformed. They are TV watchers or at best yahoo news readers online... maybe one or two other sites like huffpo or Alex Jones (Gah!). Few people even understand specifically what I mean when i say we are all being looted... right now, today. Or that the beast we face is the most violent on earth.
Otherwise we will end up promoting ineffectual crap like this or MoveOn's wish list to nowhere... and even if we get it, we lose. https://movetoamend.org/model-resolution
Posted by: Eureka Springs | Nov 15, 2011 2:30:10 PM | 8
The behind-the-scenes activities include experimenting/teaching effective techniques for political organization and communication and decision-making by consensus.
Most important in my view, education on the actual current status of the economy and political structure. That means theory as well as facts since both are important. The slogans can be used as "flash cards" to concisely express useful arguments against typical attacks -- one I hear all the time is that because US auto workers can make over a hundred thousand dollars a year, unions are working against all other workers' interests.
That's easy to debunk since auto industry executives earn more by an order of magnitude, so why not target them with resentment? Also it can be turned into an argument that every worker, not just United Auto Workers, should make that kind of money!
Here's a good article on today's Counterpunch about the successful struggle by Capital to control the (US) state:
A Short History of Elite Responses To Political-Economic Crisis
How The Oligarchy Gets Politicized
by ALAN NASSER
The performance of the US economy from the mid-1970s to the present was no match for its relatively robust performance during what economists call the Golden Age – 1949 to 1973. This was in fact the longest period of sustained growth in US history, when most (white) working people had achieved a degree of material security unknown earlier and unattainable since.
... [entire article] ...
The present answers to these questions are clear. The financial elite get everything while manufacturing is “restructured” as a low wage sector targeting the world’s fastest growing markets, which are not to be found in the imperial metropoles. Unemployment rates are to be kept high until the wage level drops low enough to render the US an effective competitor in global markets. None of this could begin to get off the ground without massive State collusion with corporate interests.
Posted by: jonku | Nov 15, 2011 2:44:14 PM | 9
Occupy Building 7
November 19 and 20
March from Liberty Plaza to WTC 7 at noon each day.
Occupy the park in front of WTC 7 until nightfall.
General Assemblies will be held at 2pm each day to discuss the direction and continuation of the Occupy Building 7 occupation after 11/20.
Go to OccupyBuilding7.org to learn more and to start following #OccupyBuilding7 on Twitter. On the website
Posted by: Atheo | Nov 15, 2011 3:27:47 PM | 10
sorry I am being cynical. these evil corporations are made of people. only if they go on strike things will move.
nobody cares if poor people and students catch a cold.
Posted by: somebody | Nov 15, 2011 4:05:54 PM | 11
Gee, youall, all I have is a song
Or, even (much) better Pete Seeger's One Man's Hands
Less negativity and falling into the error that media illusions mirror reality and ever more so that analysis of the illusion is real - real people are doing real things where they are, just do!
Posted by: Chuck Cliff | Nov 15, 2011 4:55:21 PM | 12
What the real left hasn't done is make any effort, to my knowledge, to inform some likely supporters of the protests which might to those particular supporters make sense. What happened in the last few days wrenches the guts of those who participated in and watched the 60s. Beyond ideology. I live a few miles from the events in Oakland, and 45 years ago watched the same thugs commit the same crimes in the interests the same corrupt warmongering constitution shredding life ruining elites.
So now I am well educated, academic middle class. The class that was in the late middle ages in Spain termed 'Clerks' - of the rich.
I am now too old to take the front lines. One well placed baton and I might be in very serious trouble. But I can sure show up, and make other contributions. However I am not asked. I know a dozen like me, but the 'youth revolution' tag seems to be getting in the way. This is not about 'youth' or 'generations.' As it was not in fact in Egypt, if one studies the matter. In my view the 'youth' and 'twitter' tags are another form of elite misdirection. Elite misdirection.
In any case there is a vein of real rage deep in the hearts of many those of us who lived through that time. Ruined hopes then, ruined hopes now. Those veins should be mined.
Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 15, 2011 8:55:17 PM | 14
But I can sure show up, and make other contributions. However I am not asked. I know a dozen like me, but the 'youth revolution' tag seems to be getting in the way.
why do you feel you need to be asked? if it is near you and you feel like going just go. i am almost 60 and i went to occupy oakland twice. there are people of all ages there today.
plus i demonstrated in front of veolia in downtown oakland today in solidarity with the freedom riders in palestine. the people who showed up were all age ranges. many of them were heading over to occupy oakland because they were marching to berkeley in solidarity with the berkeley occupiers.
nobody asked me to go to this today i just belong to some listserves and find out where the protests are and i go to them.
OWS is not only a 'youth revolution'. have you watched the videos? if everyone waited for a personal invitation there would be no movement. there are many people of all ages who are broke and they are there. lots of union people. teachers unions, nurses unions. just go.
Posted by: annie | Nov 15, 2011 9:25:46 PM | 15
What other steps do you suggest to keep #OWS growing and to increase its efficiency? Just Do It, b...! ;-)
Posted by: CTuttle | Nov 16, 2011 12:45:04 AM | 16
Rome wasn't built in a day.
I don't know how long it took Gandhi's followers to achieve their aims but it didn't happen overnight and quite a few of them paid a high price for their collective acts of defiance.
An aimless and leaderless #Occupy has already exposed the 1%'s visceral fear of public consensus on demonstrable greed and abuse of power. #Occupy is in no urgent need of a list of concrete demands. That list will flow naturally, one item at a time, FROM the spooked spokesmen for the 1% who have demonstrated that they are too alarmed by #Occupy to merely ignore it.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 16, 2011 12:52:47 AM | 17
@17, I don't see them as fearful...at all. They have legions of Ball Busters who are always aching to bust some chops...and this is a perfect scenario to bust some chops....so chop busting is on the menu. At most, OWS, at least in NYC, Oakland is different, is a minor nuisance and novelty that has worn out its welcome. Comparing this to India's Revolution or The Civil Rights crusade is ridiculous. There is no comparison, whatsoever. Also, in regard to the 99%, it's a not a cohesive, monolithic group in solidarity....nor will it ever be. Take the students rioting at Penn State and overturning media vans in outrage of the firing of their God, Joe Paterno. Forget about the children who were raped whilst he sat back and did nothing.....that doesn't mean anything to them, in fact, no doubt, in this world of winner and losers, them's the breaks, the whining young boys and their whining parents should juts suck it up for the Gipper. These "youth" are presumably the 99%.....and I'm not so proud of them....and I'm afraid, they are the majority in the U.S., all protestations aside.
That is the U.S. for all of you in Europe who are not U.S. citizens, meaning it's more indicative than the OWS crowds. The OWS crowds are a very small minority
Posted by: Morocco Bama | Nov 16, 2011 6:39:03 AM | 18
Morocco Bama, I agree, though probably it is beneath the point. You do not have to be a majority to change public discourse, and as I remember reading up on revolutions they always started by the ruling class not really believing in what they were doing any more.
I have a few friends who can be trusted to always talk where the wind is, and the wind is to reign in the banks.
Posted by: somebody | Nov 16, 2011 7:30:04 AM | 19
Well, from the looks of it, China and Russia are calling the bluff by not agreeing to any new sanctions. They're effectively warranting three possible outcomes.
1.) The U.S., Israel, and The West in general, back off the Iran Nuclear issue, and just let it be. Of course, they know this is highly improbable and won't happen, but it is, nevertheless, a possibility, however slim the odds.
2.) The U.S., Israel, and The West in general, engage in constructive diplomatic dialogue to come to a mutually beneficial agreement concerning Iran's nuclear ambitions. They know this is also improbable, but not as improbable as #1. The odds are better, but not great, and they're not betting on it, because they're not stupid.
3.) The U.S., Israel, and The West in general, implement an attack on Iran. This is probable, the odds are in favor of it, and they're most likely betting this will be the most likely outcome, and preparing accordingly. I don't think they will retaliate in any way, other than verbal condemnations, but they will lay in wait to see what, if any, opportunities arise in the aftermath of the destruction.
Posted by: Morocco Bama | Nov 16, 2011 9:01:08 AM | 20
Ummm...@20 was supposed to post to the previous thread. It was the thread I was reading when I typed the reply. Some wonky shit going on. Maybe your site is under attack, b, since you're stepping on some mighty sensitive tows.
Posted by: Morocco Bama | Nov 16, 2011 9:05:00 AM | 21
@Anonymous But I can sure show up, and make other contributions. However I am not asked.
Sorry, but that is the most **** thing I read for a while. You expect to be "asked". How please do know people that you exist and that you wait to be "asked". Why should the ask someone who clearly does not show any initiative. Either you get off that couch yourself or you will die sitting on it.
Posted by: b | Nov 16, 2011 12:15:11 PM | 23
The movement needs numbers. So it will wait for them to come. Talk about initiative. This is and always has been what passes for 'organization' on the left.
Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 16, 2011 12:55:48 PM | 24
It is fantastically difficult to coordinate a bottom-up movement that needs time to figure things out and build its modus vivendi, right from scratch!
Specially if it tries to break the common mold - leader(s) who rise and garner kudos, profits and achieve status in the existing political/cultural space, à la Sarah Barracuda.
By the same token, supporting it in a meaningful way is difficult as well.
I have seen many bloggers who have that little blue ribbon thing, I support the OCCUPY movement, but so what? What to do they do to support it? What can they do? It’s nice and positive and all. Then read some posts where supporting meant to the individual, going there, talking to people, and helping out with trash and so on.
Today I gave 40 euros to a French chap who wrote 4 paragraphs for a small concrete project, he wanted between 1,300 - 3,000, this is one way to go > series of small projects. Citizen driven, decentralized, really from the bottom up, etc. But there has to be action, and a result.
OWS seems a pallid copy of Tahir Square, which did ‘sorta’ topple a Gvmt. It is not civil-rights, it is not the late sixties (basically anti-war in the US), and to me, dismayingly, not explicitly or strongly worker’s ‘rights’. Though it has characteristics of all those...and probably most resembles the Israel social unrest / protests (?) in a weaker form. That might be unkind...
So, seen from another angle, OWS needs clout beyond repelling police or physical mini-fights, sympathy from Soccer Moms and Armani suits, college drop outs, etc.
OWS needs its own media, preferably a TV station, lacking that a broadsheet and radio station, why not, and heavy internet presence, massive and organized and sensible, on YouTube or that kind of stuff.
(First 3 page of YouTube with search OWS shows only comments on it, no content from them at all.)
It is the only way. What they have to say should be loud and clear, public!
One opinion, which leaves many other matters and approaches in the shade.
Posted by: Noirette | Nov 16, 2011 1:24:38 PM | 25
change your lifestyle and your choices:
subsistance farming and gardening, produce your own food
slow food, spend time cooking and having meals together
buy local from family owned small shops
exchange rings, do it yourself ...
get politicians to invest in alternative energy
go for the decent job not the one with most money
get involved in what schools do to your children
get involved in health care
opt for meaningful relationships
this economy is driven by our choices nothing else ...
Posted by: somebody | Nov 16, 2011 3:18:58 PM | 27
@ 18. Here's an extract from Xymphora's post of Nov 16.
"Update: 'Occupy' crackdowns coordinated with federal law enforcement officials":
"Over the past ten days, more than a dozen cities have moved to evict "Occupy" protesters from city parks and other public spaces. As was the case in last night's move in New York City, each of the police actions shares a number of characteristics. And according to one Justice official, each of those actions was coordinated with help from Homeland Security, the FBI and other federal police agencies.
The official, who spoke on background to me late Monday evening, said that while local police agencies had received tactical and planning advice from national agencies, the ultimate decision on how each jurisdiction handles the Occupy protests ultimately rests with local law enforcement.
According to this official, in several recent conference calls and briefings, local police agencies were advised to seek a legal reason to evict residents of tent cities, focusing on zoning laws and existing curfew rules. Agencies were also advised to demonstrate a massive show of police force, including large numbers in riot gear. In particular, the FBI reportedly advised on press relations, with one presentation suggesting that any moves to evict protesters be coordinated for a time when the press was the least likely to be present."
"Mayors, police chiefs talk strategy on protests" (I think this is the sanitized Official Story provided as a public service by the AP)
There is push-back from the 'left' on this, based on the fear it is a right-wing attack against Obama (who left the country just before the multitude of simultaneous raids, no doubt a big coincidence).
#Occupy is about greed and abuse of power.
If the 1% weren't worried about #Occupy, they'd ignore it.
Not to put too fine a point on it, the 1% are shitting themselves - and with good reason.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 16, 2011 6:34:30 PM | 28
one thing of OWS that's really important is that it finally encourages people to frame their problems in collective terms; it is very difficult for an unemployed (of any age), or for someone who lost his job or his house, not to feel guilty for having "failed"; until now he was alone with his family to cope with it, victimized by an ideology that promised success to anyone who deserved it, and treated as losers who didn't even deserve public help all those who "didn't make it"; OWS, along with the very high consensus it enjoys according to the polls, affirms that those individual problems really are collective, and that an identifiable someone is guilty for the sufferings inflicted
suggestions? keep the pressure up! don't exhaust yourselves, disband and regroup; meanwhile, will someone somewhere, without hijacking OWS, please start thinking about a new political movement in the Us? (I'm old-fashioned, can't think outside of a political frame)
Posted by: claudio | Nov 16, 2011 6:50:36 PM | 29
The underlying plutocracy of the USA is irrefutable by the fact that the state, not merely the monied, has taken a keen interest in stopping this movement. B pointed out in his entry on 3 October that the services of the NYPD had been purchased outright by the JPMorgan Chase & Co, so I will not waste one of my limited links here to point that out again.
But turning local and municipal police forces into the private army of the rich is not the only response they are are having to this. They are also targetting the populace's means of organization (see: HR 3261, or the "Stopping Online Piracy Act.") They want to have a monopoly on not only the discourse, but also the method by which the narrative is promulgated, and they are serious about this at the highest levels.
So what should the #occupy movement do? If they wish to survive, they will promote mechanisms to that end in the form of go-to responses in the absence of outside communication. They must discover methods of organizing and being able to make themselves heard in the absence of electronic media... which will become even more unanimous in its denunciations and vilification of them once it has eliminated their ability to defend or speak up for themselves.
How will they do that? Frankly, I'm not optimistic that they will. I see a problem forming that from my perspective appears to be insurmountable. Public opinion will turn when it hears one side only, so how do the 99% make themselves heard after that?
Posted by: Monolycus | Nov 16, 2011 6:52:41 PM | 30
Refraining from taking responsibility for one's own blunders, and casting around, desperately, in search of someone/something else to blame, is very right-wing.
This weakness is their defining characteristic.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 16, 2011 7:17:32 PM | 31
@31, I take it you're a right winger then, since you tend to blame the Jews for everything. It's a weird, roundabout way for you to say it, though. There is the possibility, and a strong one at that, that I just posted my response to the wrong thread. I'll admit that and take full responsibility for it...no problem. But, I guess I could blame the Jews for it, or blame the 1%, to include the Jews, for screwing with b's site, and relocating my post.
Posted by: Morocco Bama | Nov 16, 2011 7:57:23 PM | 32
We stood mute and sheepish as the criminals in the Bush Administration established "Free Speech Zones". The "Patriot Act" slid right into law, lubricated by the slobber of a brand new Grade-A boogy man, that terrible Al Qaeda monster they claim is lurking under all our beds.
Then, we mewled and moaned weakly, if at all, while this posturing fraud in the White House declared all that was required to IGNORE the letter of the law was some scripted and glib blather about "looking forward rather than backward".
Governmental evesdropping? No problem, its only criminal if the criminals doing it choose to label it as such. Fat chance, eh?
Wanna zap an American citizen from the comfort of your Oval Office??? No big deal, just tack a label on 'im. Call him an "enemy combatant", and abra cadabra, you can do with him what you wish. Kill him, shove chemical light sticks up his ass, leash him to some sicko like Lyndie, pile him in a heap of naked bodies, waterboard the heathen devil....stick him in some cell somewhere to rot....heck, the possibilities are endless.
OWS??? You gotta be kidding me. Faaaar too little....waaaaaay too late. The people you're protesting against are the self same people you're asking to hear, and act on, your demands. You think the gazillionaires on Wall Street are gonna get taken down a notch by the gazillionaires in Congress?? Yeah, right.
You get too vocal, too uppity, they'll just frag your asses. Haven't you all been paying attention this last decade? We ain't what we claim to be, and the law, the Constitution, don't mean SHIT to these people in DC.
You're better off spending the time learning how to garden, so you can feed your kids. Won't be long now, its a skill you'll need.
Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Nov 16, 2011 10:44:23 PM | 33
@ 33. You're better off spending the time learning how to garden
Interesting idea ... defeatist veges teaching each other how to replicate in the safety of their yards.
What will the pessimists say if it turns out that #Occupiers would rather die on their feet than live on their knees?
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 16, 2011 11:45:01 PM | 34
POA @ 33: Mostly all too true,but, I refuse to be completely apathetic. All anyone can do is try and aid the folks who refuse to lie down and take it. Support what little there is of progressive media,(Thom Hartmann, Mike Malloy among others) and donate to the few voices like Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kuchinich in the Senate. Like pissing into the wind? Yeah, probably,but I'm not going to surrender to apathy. Working within your own sphere of influence to change a few minds, is better than doing and saying nothing. It's at least great therapy.
Posted by: ben | Nov 17, 2011 12:07:16 AM | 35
What will the pessimists say if it turns out that #Occupiers would rather die on their feet than live on their knees?
What will the pessimists say if it turns out that #Occupiers would rather die in their tents than live on their knees?
Well, that's not exactly fair, I know. As it turns out, the tents were as much a facade as they were a shelter.....a number of them remained empty at night whilst the "Occupiers" snuck home and snuggled back on their knees, fitting in their "Activism" when it was convenient. It sounds a lot like Valley Forge.
Posted by: Morocco Bama | Nov 17, 2011 7:11:06 AM | 36
Who's "apathetic"? Not me, I care alot, and I have been vocal for decades now. I was on the front lines in our dissent against Nam. Self preservation is not apathy.
I mean what I say. You're tilting at windmills. We have been too unengaged and ignorant, fat and lazy, for far too long. Its too late. They've already legislated away your ability to make change, either through the polls, or through protest. Even if they respected the law, which they don't, they have put in place the tools necessary to silence you legally and efficiently.
I'm not apathetic. I'm a man of logic and common sense. Open your eyes. Tyranny is coming in your front door. You aren't going to stop it with tents and slogans.
Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Nov 17, 2011 8:22:32 AM | 37
Apparently OWS is whatever you want it to be...meaning it's merely a repository for a myriad of projections. Now, I've heard it claimed that it is non-violent, but this song is not non-violent, by any means. Obviously, there are violent sentiments running just beneath the surface, but for some reason, many choose to ignore it, overlook it, and refuse to tap it in a focused, effective manner. If you don't acknowledge the inevitability of violence and direct it to your ends, rather than to others' ends, you will be trampled beneath its feet. Don't get me wrong, I don't wish for violence, but that won't make violence go away. Violence is coming, and either you ride it like a wild horse, or it will run you down. If you don't know what you're doing, it will buck you off and deal you a back-breaking blow. The problem with violence, and using it throughout history, is that it eventually controls and defines you, and not the other way around. It's not something to be taken lightly. It's a very powerful thing, and it will arrive uninvited if not invited.
Here's part of the lyrics
We stand against your desire for more
Hear how we knock,soon there won't be a door
And what you won't share will be ripped from your hand
Your body destroyed the way fire lands
Burning your homes, the privilege you stake
The payback beyond anything you could take
And naked you'll be and full of regret
The way they were treated you''ll long to forget
As we stand as one
You'll wish you could go back and undo what's been done
You'll wish you were never insanity's son
You'll wish you were fair, you'll wish for compassion
But it will be late and long out of fashion
Strung up you'll be like the pig you became
A symbol of hatred and one with no name
Our country will come back belonging to us
Regain its spirt and regain our trust
As we stand as one
Posted by: Morocco Bama | Nov 17, 2011 9:07:48 AM | 38
POA @ 37:"You're tilting at windmills. "
Yes, no doubt,but, it's what I can do now.
Posted by: ben | Nov 17, 2011 9:28:23 AM | 39
The Myth of Bernie Sanders
The Myth of Bernie Sanders
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders has recently been elevated to near godlike status by the political Left in the United States. Some of his fans have even suggested that he should challenge Barack Obama in the Democratic Presidential Primary. The more often he is accused of being a socialist by his political enemies on the Right, the more convinced the Left becomes that he surely walks on water.
Although Sanders may have once been a socialist back in the 80s when he was Mayor of Burlington, today, a socialist he is not. Rather he behaves more like a technofascist disguised as a liberal, who backs all of President Obama’s nasty little wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen. Since he always “supports the troops,” Sanders never opposes any defense spending bill. He stands behind all military contractors who bring much-needed jobs to Vermont.
Senator Sanders rarely misses a photo opportunity with Vermont National Guard troops when they are being deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq. He’s always at the Burlington International Airport when they return. If Sanders truly supported the Vermont troops, he would vote to end all of the wars posthaste.
Senator Patrick Leahy, Senator Bernie Sanders, and Congressman Peter Welch could hardly contain their enthusiasm over the news that Burlington International Airport had been named as a possible site to house the Air Force’s new F-35 fighter jet scheduled to replace the Vermont Air National Guard’s aging fleet of F-16s. The new high-tech instruments of death will cost $115 million a pop in sharp contrast to the F-16s which cost a mere $20 million each.
From whom might these F-35s protect Vermont? Possibly, Canada, separatist-minded Quebec, upstate New York, the New Hampshire Free State, or the Commonwealth of Massachusetts? Why on earth would anyone want to invade Vermont? Vermont has no military bases, no large cities, no important government installations, and no strategic resources unless you count an aging nuclear power plant. What if Canada, China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, or even the U.S. Marines were to invade the Green Mountain state? Just what would they do with it? Would all of the black-and-white Holsteins be confiscated, or perhaps the entire sugar maple crop be burned? Imagine trying to enslave freedom-loving Vermonters. Good luck!
Vermont is too small, too rural, and too independent to be invaded by anyone. It is a threat to no one. Furthermore, Vermonters, not unlike the Swiss, tend to stick to their own knitting rather than intruding into the affairs of their neighbors. Vermont has always been that way and probably always will be.
Major General Michael Dubie, head of the Vermont National Guard, has expressed the hope that the Vermont Guard might be morphed into a center for unmanned drone aircraft. Sanders, not unlike President Obama, thinks drones are cool.
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 17, 2011 11:19:27 AM | 40
I found this symbolic and sad.
Makana was hired to provide ambient music at the summit of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation.
For 45 minutes, he sang one song over and over, varying the ‘ambiance’.
Here’s the song (it’s good)
Nobody paid any attention, really.
Posted by: Noirette | Nov 17, 2011 12:22:35 PM | 41
Major General Michael Dubie, head of the Vermont National Guard, has expressed the hope that the Vermont Guard might be morphed into a center for unmanned drone aircraft. Sanders, not unlike President Obama, thinks drones are cool.
If only all three, and many more, would live up to the General's fine name. If they did, we could call them The Dubie Brothers.
Posted by: Morocco Bama | Nov 17, 2011 1:25:51 PM | 42
If you're the same PissedOffAmerican who used to comment at SBS Dateline(.au) many dozens of moons ago, you seem to have changed your tune, somewhat. My recollection is that, way back then, there was fire in your belly.
What caused you to decide that surrender is an option?
If the Vietnamese, Afghans and Iraqis can prevail over the influence of the 1% in their respective countries, Americans can too. #Occupy is just a wake-up call - an opportunity to negotiate a non-military solution to perfectly valid grievances.
If the 1% don't listen, #Occupy's successor could well be a movement aimed at prescribing a dose of their own medicine to the "military solution" desperados.
They should take the hint.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 17, 2011 7:54:35 PM | 43
"If you're the same PissedOffAmerican who used to comment at SBS...."
Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Nov 17, 2011 8:41:18 PM | 44
"My recollection is that, way back then, there was fire in your belly"
Theres fire in my belly now. But useless self sacrifice, or obviously futile activism, seems counterproductive to me. Change, if we can institute it, will come with knowledge. I can't inform my neighbors, co-workers, associates, family and friends by pitching a tent and carrying a sign. When I resort to such tactics, the media becomes my messenger. How's that workin' out for you? The media representing you and the truth these days, HW????
No. I can give knowledge, one on one. I can inform, give sourcing, recommend readings, one on one. The media can't, and won't, do that for me, OR for your OWS movement.Watch the news. You aren't being presented in a positive light. Your true greviances aren't being honestly presented to America's living rooms and breakfast tables.
If you haven't moticed, your vote don't mean shit anymore. You been following Bev Harris' work? How'd that hopey changey misrepresented and false advertised sack of crap in the White House work out for ya? You get what you voted for? What, you think they're gonna change their ways because a bunch of you pitch tents and hold up signs? All you'll change is their script, but the play is just gonna be the same old shit.
No.You wanna make an impression? Send them used toilet paper as your tax contribution. Maybe if a few million of you took that tact, they might just give a listen.
Me???? I know where the elk herd hereabouts spends the winters, and I feel real good about my immediate neighbors. And when these elitist self serving murderous sacks of crap in DC start running you folks over with troop carriers, I'll flip an elk steak on the grill, and say a little prayer for you.
Its too far gone, man. Theres a time you gotta stop bailing water and abandon ship, or you're gonna drown. And these bastards have drilled so many holes in the hull there ain't no way you're gonna put a cork in all of them. Its sinking. Put the bucket down, and swim for it.
Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Nov 17, 2011 9:09:06 PM | 45
Whew! That was a close call...
Thanks. I was getting ready to be disappointed & non-plussed if you had been.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 17, 2011 9:19:21 PM | 46
OMG!!! Not the 'ol non-plussed bummer!??! Wow man, glad I saved ya in time!
Nope, most of my "PissedOffAmerican" nattering went on at Steve Clemons' site, "TheWashingtonNote", and at TPM, with occassional drop-ins at Sibel Edmonds' site, also, ThePalestineNote, and recently Mondoweiss, where I was banned for daring to opine that Jews of conscience better wise up about what the "Jewish state" is doin', because you can bet your ass that when Israel starts a fire that can't be put out, Jews worldwide are gonna get blamed for it. Apparently, logic is anti-semitic.
Posted by: PissedOffAmerican | Nov 17, 2011 9:30:02 PM | 47
re: The communication problem...
1) Wireless routers
2) Ethernet switches with spanning tree protocol
3) IP over shortwave for longer spans, or where 802.11 wifi is being jammed
4) VPN WITH STRONG ENCRYPTION!!!
Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | Nov 17, 2011 10:33:14 PM | 48
Report: NYPD cop pushes New York Supreme Court Judge into wall
Democracy Now quotes New York Supreme Court Judge
I was there to take down the names of people who were arrested… As I’m standing there, some African-American woman goes up to a police officer and says, ‘I need to get in. My daughter’s there. I want to know if she’s OK.’ And he said, ‘Move on, lady.’ And they kept pushing with their sticks, pushing back. And she was crying. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he throws her to the ground and starts hitting her in the head,” says Smith. “I walk over, and I say, ‘Look, cuff her if she’s done something, but you don’t need to do that.’ And he said, ‘Lady, do you want to get arrested?’ And I said, ‘Do you see my hat? I’m here as a legal observer.’ He said, ‘You want to get arrested?’ And he pushed me up against the wall.
"Systemic, clinical, and Goddamned methodical", to quote myself...
And proactive, they are trying to make something happen, it is the same counter-terror tactic as Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld used in his Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG) Plan to Provoke Terrorists; "strategies that lead to predictable patterns"*... read on.
Taken from, 'Counterterrorism Strategies in the Lab' (pdf)
Note how they are attacking, (specifically) women, in order to provoke a reaction from the men. Another thing I have read about is the across the nation tatic of using the addicted homeless (often drunk or stoned belligerent to disrupt the local ows. Finally anyone remember the fake letters to the editors across the nation under President Cheney's watch where they had LTE's that were all written supposedly by concerned citizens, but turned out the be a rove ploy, well, I have now read 6 stories about pedophiles or under age sex at OWS camps across the country. Namely, sounds like a CIA tactic.
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 18, 2011 10:54:10 PM | 53
@ Uncle $cam
Is it a stretch to imagine that the first blood (dead bodies) isn't too far away?
And can we get a UN security council resolution condemning the repression of the opposition in the US (complete with no-fly zones and R2P) ?
(and there was this on al-akhbar English yesterday:
Tested on Palestinians, Perfected on #OWS Protesters: Introducing the LRAD Sound Cannon. No word in the Western MSM, I suspect)
Posted by: Philippe | Nov 18, 2011 11:41:04 PM | 54
there is already a distancing happening.
phase 2 has been messaged-in by the repetition of you cannot evict an idea that's time has come
this probably has to happen for the movement's survival, because the physical encampments are living, breathing TAZ's (temporary autonomous zones) susceptible to the messiness of humanity's range of ills.
Posted by: lizard | Nov 19, 2011 2:06:53 AM | 55
Response to the sound cannon?
A car full of 30" woofers and a copy of Rhythm Devils - Apocalypse Now Sessions.
Remember when the US military played "Welcome To The Jungle!" to try to scare Noriega? A dose of "Now" would probably be quite effective. The 'dirty hippies' would get it, but for the cops it would be a real WTF moment.
Posted by: Dr. Wellington Yueh | Nov 19, 2011 2:14:24 AM | 56
Re: Sound Cannons.
The ear-muffs used by construction workers to protect their hearing should reduce the effect. Health & Safety Code compliant ones aren't expensive and work a bit too well for people prone to disorientation in the absence of aural cues.
Muffs are better than ear plugs because they cover the skull adjacent to the ear and dampen and reduce skull resonance which can be transmitted to the inner ear.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 19, 2011 7:11:48 AM | 57
Re: Sound Cannon tit for tat.
Some bullhorns have a detachable mic. In theory, holding the mic in the mouth of the bullhorn could/should induce acoustic feedback (a high-pitched squeal).
But it would pay to check that the theory actually works with bullhorns, and whether the positives outweigh the negatives for OWS.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 19, 2011 11:02:02 AM | 58