October 06, 2011
NATO To Intervene In Libya's Multisided Civil War
It was utterly predictable that the war in Libya would not be over even if Gaddhafi would be pushed away. The various fractions of the rebels could always be expected to start fighting over the loot. Frankly - why shouldn't they? This is happening now and NATO is preparing to go into Libya to clean up the mess the three stooges, Obama, Sarkozy and Cameron, created.
Nato officials are also concerned that fighting could break out among the factions that brought down Gaddafi's regime.
They believe the alliance would be under an obligation to intervene under the terms of its UN mandate to protect the Libyan population.
"If it degenerates into a big fight between factions, we will have to take action," a senior official said.
"If the scale and scope is of an order that justifies Nato intervention, we will intervene."
The situation is of course already degenerating and there is already fighting between various rebel factions. But a multisided civil war situation like this can not be refereed from the air. To intervene here means ground troops and a lot of them. Those will then be, as in Afghanistan, just another faction in an ever widening civil war.
From various news items:
Remember what happened after they did this in Iraq?
Libya's new government is setting up a security agency whose main task would be to root out those who remain loyal to deposed leader Muammar Gaddafi in towns and cities it now controls.
Ahmed al Dharrat, Libya's new interim internal affairs minister, told Reuters the new agency would replace a much-feared security service which ruled the North African nation through fear and arrests throughout Gaddafi's 42 years in power.
"Regarding internal security, there has been an order to abolish it. And we are studying a way of creating a body," al Dharrat said in an interview.
In Tripoli - people from Ziltan versus the LIFG:
An NTC spokesman who did not want to be named because he is not allowed to speak to the media about the incident told CNN "immediately after the journalist left the area, members of the rival Zintan-based Kekaa militia surrounded members of the Tripoli Brigade and stopped them from leaving."
"They had issued an arrest warrant from the Zintan Military Council for Belhaj and his deputy," the NTC spokesman added.
More members from the Tripoli Brigade based in Metiga airport arrived in pickup trucks armed with heavy artillery and surrounded the Kekaa Brigades and "convinced" them to leave after accusations were exchanged between the two groups and tension that may have escalated to fighting, the spokesman said.
In the South - Berbers versus Arabs:
Berbers from Nalut and Arabs from nearby Seaan clashed Saturday with Kalashnikov rifles and machine guns in the Nefusa mountains. A family of three caught in the crossfire was killed in the incident, Ahmed Hussein who witnessed the incident, told CNN.
Tripoli - lot of loyalist who will not stay silent:
"I am a Gadhafi loyalist. I want Moammar. Some people are afraid to speak out, but I'm not," he says. "All I've known is Gadhafi. And I felt secure back then. There are many of us who feel the same way, but we are afraid to speak out because we might get beaten or shot."
By some estimates, up to 30 to 40 percent of the population in Libya remains sympathetic to Gadhafi.
Sirte - fighting to death:
For the grim truth is that this battered city, the last strategically important target for anti-Gaddafi forces, is home to elements who know there is no point in surrendering.
These men know that death is their only option. If they surrender they will tried and executed for so-called "blood crimes".
The rebels know it too.
Near Sirte - Benghazis versus looters from Misurata
Fathi al-Shobash, an eastern revolutionary, said that when he tried to stop Misrata fighters from raiding homes, they would push him away and say this was their time to treat the Gadhadhfas the way they were treated by their leader. Gadhafi drew heavily on the Gadhadhfa and other loyalist tribes for his military and other key parts of his regime.
“I came to sincerely fight for freedom and my one goal is to rid Libya of Moammar Gadhafi,” said al-Shobash. “Why take it out on innocent people from his tribe?”
The tensions between east and west have begun to percolate on a national level as the interim government — set up by easterners — tries to solidify its authority after the fall of Tripoli and Gadhafi’s ouster in late August. Already, some in the west have rankled at what they see as attempts by easterners to dominate.
Posted by b on October 6, 2011 at 12:12 PM | Permalink
this is not one of the better articles. It makes it seem NATO is not in Libya, so what are all those planes and helicopters doing?
'The fighting raged again on Sunday night, reaching a rare degree of violence. NATO drones and planes have been bombarding in every direction. Helicopters are strafing people in the streets to clear the way for the jihadists'
not to mention RAF bombers who killed 85 civilians in Zliten, and the thousansd bombed to death since then.
NATO(aka FUKUSA) forces are also on the ground, theyve been seen and captured.
'"If it degenerates into a big fight between factions, we will have to take action," a senior official said.
"If the scale and scope is of an order that justifies Nato intervention, we will intervene."
dont you just get sick of that weasel word: 'Intervene'...thats what NATO has done all along! But for NATOs 'intervening, this crisis would have been over in March..as it is the 100000 odd deaths are solely due to NATOs 'intervening'
Posted by: brian | Oct 6, 2011 5:38:18 PM | 1
It is more complex than that, as Nato does not fire guns in friendly accidents - yet - however, I doubt they will be able act together. They probably have lost Quatar, as the attempt to make Belhaj acceptable (Guardian, New York Times ...) seems to have failed.
None of the three Obama, Sarkozy, Cameron had a mandate from their own people to go to war in Libya. They will not get it now. They do no longer have a figleaf of UN mandate as it expired, and China plus Russia will not renew it, as they broke too many rules. They are facing elections and economic troubles, they will not be able to continue indefinitively without being successful. They still have to withdraw from Afghanistan, which will be a huge challenge to logistics.
The US wants Europe to increase military spending, Europe wants to save on it. Libya is huge. Nobody is in control of the desert borders. Nato will have to spend real money, if it wants to patrol Libya. And that might not be successful. Nato is spending quite some money already. They cannot cut the country coast from south, as the oil and the water are in the desert.
What did the Libyan Transitional Government promise them, a third of contracts each, to pay with what? future revenues?
The revenues they need to rebuild the country and keep everybody quiet there?
Part of Nato tried to call it a success and quit. Why does Panetta have to spoil it?
Oh, and by the way Italy does not seem to make it
Note that to be a refugee is a crime in Europe.
Nor does Malta
And - of course - Greece does not make it ...
To return to Libya, as Europe (and the US) cannot control their own borders how could they try to control Libya's?
Posted by: somebody | Oct 6, 2011 5:47:34 PM | 2
meanwhile so called rebels seem to run into problems as soon as they turn their back to places they "liberated"
Meanwhile, clashes pitting pro- and anti- Qadhafi forces erupted on Thursday in Ragdalin, a town held by old regime loyalists, 130 kilometres west of Tripoli, an officer with the National Transitional Council (NTC) said.
“NTC military forces on Wednesday gave pro-Qadhafi troops in Ragdalin 24 hours to lay down their arms. But they made an incursion into the neighbouring town of Zuwarah and killed Fathi Al Idrissi, a pro-NTC commander, before falling back to Ragdalin,” said Smail Atushi.
“Rebels have come from the towns of Yefren, Misrata, Zuwarah and Kabau to reinforce the attack launched on Thursday on Ragdalin where violent fighting is taking place with Kadhafi troops,” said the NTC officer.
The NTC fighters “are battling some 900 soldiers of the former regime who had fled the mountains with tanks and heavy artillery to take refuge in Ragdalin and three neighbouring localities - Al Jmayl, Al Asah and Al Ajaylat,” near the Tunisian border, he added"
Posted by: somebody | Oct 6, 2011 6:37:20 PM | 3
"back to the rules of independent reporting"
Nope. Qatar / Belhaj go out of spot. The vultures start picking on each other.
Posted by: anon | Oct 7, 2011 12:05:04 AM | 6
somebody @ #4.
al jazeera seems to have gone back to the rules of independent reporting
Maybe Western Imperialist looters telling Qatari Imperialist looters to butt out wasn't such a bright idea after all.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Oct 7, 2011 12:29:18 AM | 7
Discord Riddles Libyan Factions
With the alliance in command of most of Libya and the National Transitional Council in charge, frictions are flaring up again.
"Everybody is getting their knives out," said Mohammed Benrasali, a leader from Misrata and head of Tripoli's civilian stabilization team.
Most Zintan's leaders back Libyan Prime Minister Mahmoud Jabril, who is deeply unpopular in the capital, and other parts of Libya, and is especially mistrusted by many of the country's Islamist leaders.
"The problems with the Zintanis is they are all uneducated, they drink, they drive around at night in muddy pickup trucks with guns, and they won't leave," said a commander in Tripoli.
A Western official in Libya said he believes the rivalry also has regional dimensions, with Qatar, the tiny Gulf emirate, throwing its weight by Tripoli's leadership, particularly Mr. Belhaj, while Qatar's Gulf rival, the United Arab Emirates, has backed the Zintan leadership.
The top commander of Zintan's forces in the capital, defected army colonel Mukhtar al-Akhdar, slammed his fist down on the table of his office at the city's international airport that remains closed, while the Tripoli-controlled military airport is running a full schedule of military and civilian flights.
"Tripoli is for whom?" he asked. "It's for all Libyans. It's our capital too. This is the essence of the matter."
Posted by: b | Oct 8, 2011 1:35:42 AM | 8
Libyan Rebels' Books Detail Their Fighters' Pay War on Gadhafi Wasn't Funded by Benghazi Council
Libya's ruling rebel National Transitional Council, opening its books to try to fight questions over its legitimacy and allegations of corruption, revealed how little funding passed through its hands to the militia forces that helped depose Col. Moammar Gadhafi.
Rebel militias were funded largely by other sources, such as sympathetic foreign government including Qatar, wealthy Libyans and anti-Ghadafi nonprofit organizations. Those contributions may have amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars in cash, weapons, uniforms, vehicles and other aid, said Muraja Gaith Soleiman, the deputy minister of oil and finance who signed off the budget documents.
There is no mention in the books of other militias that are now dominate post-Gadhafi Libya, such as Abdel Hakim Belhaj's Tripoli Brigade, which was first mustered in Benghazi, where the NTC was headquartered.
During the conflict's later months, especially as military aid soared from Qatar to rebel militias, many rebel and Western officials voiced concern that aid flowing through back channels was undermining NTC authority and fueling divisions.
Since the fall of Tripoli, those concerns have sharpened as forces that were funded outside the NTC have gained influence. The NTC has wrestled for influence with a coalition of irregular militias, many dominated by Islamists—with some militia leaders resisting efforts to unite under NTC command.
Understanding the allegiances of armed groups has become an increasing concern. "Whoever provides the money is going to control these militias, and it obviously wasn't the NTC," said a Western official in Tripoli.
Even as Finance Ministry officials were finalizing the budget documents Monday, the rift appeared to deepen. Shortly after noon, armed militiamen stormed the ministry and arrested an employee on corruption charges, several witnesses said.
"People from the government clearly can't control what's going on," a ministry official said. "They don't know who [the gunmen] are or where they took him. Some militia with guns came and took off an employee saying he was corrupt."
The paperwork documents scores of cash advances—worth over 2.6 million dinars ($2.1 million)—to various rebel officials, which is likely to provide fodder for political opponents looking to raise questions about their rivals' integrity.
Gaddafi loyalists find no room for dissent
“We can’t talk,” said a 50-year-old housewife in the Tripoli suburb of Jila. She said she and her loyalist friends do not dare reveal their views in public. “If I go out now and say I like Gaddafi, they will arrest me maybe, or shoot me.” Like other Gaddafi supporters in this article, she did not want her name used because she feared retribution.
For people who preferred the old Libya, the capital’s streets and workplaces feel like hostile territory.
In Abu Salim, where revolutionary flags are scarce and where loyalists and revolutionaries have skirmished in recent weeks, the latter say they worry about sleeper cells forming.
“There’s a lot of groups that were supporting the regime completely, and now that the rebels came to Abu Salim, they are all rebels — they are acting as if they were always with the revolution,” said Abdel Majid Bushaala, 31. “We think that some of the individuals will start to organize themselves.”
Posted by: b | Oct 11, 2011 12:58:08 AM | 9
war on Libya(not gadafi) was funded by human traffickers:
'Smugglers Put in Charge of humanitarian evacuation?
Under what kind of authority was that approved? Well, it seems, the local authorities where allied lynch mobs had first pushed these human cattle to want to leave. I again refer to the CIRET-AVT/CF2R report, page 14, "Irredentism of Eastern Libya"
Finally, a little known fact, Benghazi has become, over the course of the last years, the epicentre of African migration to Europe. This human traffic was transformed into a vast industry, turning over billions of dollars. A parallel mafia type world developed in the town where the trafficking was deeply rooted and employed thousands of people in all areas, not without corrupting the police and officials.
It is only a year ago that the Libyan government with the assistance of Italy was able
to control this cancer.
With the disappearance of its ‘business’ and the arrest of a number of its leaders, the local mafia was ready to finance and to support the Libyan rebellion. Numerous gangs and members of the underworld emerged from the shadows and are known to have carried out punitive assaults against the African immigrants in Benghazi and its suburbs. Since the start of the insurgency hundreds of immigrant travellers, Sudanese, Somalians, Ethiopians, and Eritreans were robbed and murdered by the rebel militias. This fact is carefully concealed by the international media. '
Posted by: brian | Oct 12, 2011 5:09:04 PM | 10
'Gaddafi loyalists' and Libya NTC trade fire in Tripoli
A gun battle has broken out in the Libyan capital Tripoli between forces loyal to the transitional government and gunmen they say support fugitive ex-leader Col Muammar Gaddafi.
The fighting started after a demonstration by Gaddafi loyalists in the Abu Salim district of the city.
Posted by: b | Oct 14, 2011 11:53:01 AM | 11