Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 27, 2008

Bombing Gaza

For month Israel blocked the Gaza Strip from nearly any supply. No paper for schoolbooks, too little fuel, only little medical stuff. On November 5 it broke the truce [corrected] Hamas had held for nearly five month.

That truce officially ended a few days ago and Hamas as well as other groups started to again to launch ineffective homemade rockets onto Israeli ground.

Yesterday Israel let some 80 trucks with supplies into Gaza. That was not to get relief to 1.5 million prisoners there, but to prepare for the onslaught that started today. Too little supplies in Gaza would let too many people call for a 'premature' stop of the ongoing war against the Palestinian people there.

The first day of a brutal bombing campaign killed at least 195 people, all of them 'militants' and Hamas 'extremists' we are told.

The killing will go on for at least a week and more likely up to February 10 when Israel holds elections. Every politician in Israel seems to run a 'I will hit 'em harder' campaign. This is totally useless violence for the most cynic reason I can think of - to boast the personal egos of Livni, Barak and Netanjahu.

Posted by b on December 27, 2008 at 11:57 AM | Permalink

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Plus the price of oil is too low for some. And Madoff ran off with some money and the coffers will have to be replenished. And nothing brings the price up like a ME tension spike.

And like you said, elections too. There's nothing quite like elections that bring insanity to the front.

Posted by: shanks | Dec 27, 2008 12:10:53 PM | 1

I see those ineffective homemade rockets as the equivalent to attacking one guard at the concentration camp. Ineffective yes, but better than just walking quietly up to the edge of the execution trench. The truce was never more than a different tactic by Israel to destroy Gaza. The calendar joins the train schedule as an instrument of death.

Posted by: biklett | Dec 27, 2008 12:14:14 PM | 2

You mean truce not "truth", right?

Posted by: Cloud | Dec 27, 2008 12:19:24 PM | 3

"We were in the souk when the strikes began- I saw the missiles falling and prayed; the earth shook; the smoke rose; the ambulances screamed" he said, the sirens audible in the background.

My parents live in the the city center, and the Israeli war planes attacked people and locations all around their house, walking distance in fact. Over 50 "targets"by 60 warplanes. And nearly 200 Palestinians. Like a game, if you say it enough times, it does not sound real anymore. 50 targets, 60 warplanes, 200 people. Very sanitary.

"There is a funeral passing every minute. The bodies are piling up." Gaza's air is satured with the acrid smell of burning human flesh. There is panic, as one would imagine dogs would panic in an overcrowded sell when several of their own are violently, abruptly killed. But that would create an outcry.

The rains of death continue in Gaza.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Dec 27, 2008 12:22:34 PM | 4

b, major typo. you want to say truce instead of truth.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 27, 2008 12:23:47 PM | 5

sorry, Cloud's post was not visible when I posted mine above

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 27, 2008 12:25:03 PM | 6

fuck

Posted by: annie | Dec 27, 2008 1:26:09 PM | 7

israel is consecrating its status as nation that celbrates murder. murder as foreign policy. murder as a means to forget the immoral internal conditions of the political class made up of fraudsters, gangsters & fanatics

the people of israel have chosen the shabbiest crew to lead them & that reflect the poverty of though that is the realpolitik of that sad nation

what israel is doing in gaza - the nazis did to riga

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 1:46:30 PM | 8

i have never thought it before but if the state of israel can only exist on the basis of the wholesale murder of a people -it has no right to exist, morally or politically

as pinter pointed out, the 'international community' does not exist except as a collection of words - that mean nothing, absolutely nothing - if indeed it did exist, it would have an obligation to protect & defend the palestinian people

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 1:52:18 PM | 9

Israel has the right to exercise its legitimate claim to self-defense. No one can deny that the Palestinians are waging an illegal war, in total violation of international law, and have openly stated their intent to wipe out all of the Jews in the Mideast. They have been given many opportunities to law down their arms and live in peace. They have chosen war. Until they recognize Israel they should continue to expect more war. It's their choice. It's sad that the Israelis have been driven by Palestinian hatred to these extremes, but it wasn't their choice.

Posted by: mikep | Dec 27, 2008 2:21:18 PM | 10

mikep - "s(he) made me do it" does not cut any ice with a therapist nor with a judge.

Posted by: outsider | Dec 27, 2008 2:34:49 PM | 11

I think it is about time to bring back the parallel: Gaza = Warsaw Ghetto. The parallel is progressing. The enclosure, the isolation, the starvation. Defenders of Israel deny the parallel on the grounds that there has been no elimination. The answer to that is of course: not yet. Israel will get there; there's no choice. They have made a start today. The defenders of the ghetto too fired the odd shot until the end.

The question is why Israel is obsessed with imitating their Nazi oppressors. Well, the racism is the same. I remember well, back in 1967, that the IDF armoured forces were commonly called the 'panzers'.

I ask myself why I am not on a boat bringing supplies to Gaza. It's a good question, I am embarrassed; I should be. My answer today is that I have been playing a longer game, working to get the US out of Iraq. Once the US is out of Iraq - which looks as though it is going to happen - Israel is going to be seriously constrained. But it may be too late for the people of Gaza. And the West Bank. My view is that I should do what I am good at doing, but it is a grave dilemma, which I haven't resolved. My heart goes out to those poor people in Gaza.

Posted by: Alex | Dec 27, 2008 3:31:36 PM | 12

@MikeP. Palestinians have, and have always had, the right of self-defense in their own homeland. Hamas has never said anything about wiping out any Jews. Why do you feel the need to parade your biased hatefulness and your ignorance in this way?

Posted by: Helena Cobban | Dec 27, 2008 3:39:12 PM | 13

mikep's contribution @10 doesn't differ very much from those of the average Nazi in the street. The chief Nazis were more cynical. I'm re-reading Albert Speer's "Inside the Third Reich".

Posted by: Alex | Dec 27, 2008 3:45:05 PM | 14

Mikep :
You should look at the birth of Israel - King David hotel massacre. How many other countries can you list whose birth pride is a terrorist act. Additionally, Israel, by international law, is responsible for the health and safety of Gazan citizens since it has been occupying it. On the other hand, Israel has been trying to starve the Palestineans to death intentionally to provoke them. Who started this in 1947 anyway?

Posted by: cletracsteve | Dec 27, 2008 3:49:18 PM | 15

Boston Tea Party
But your point is well taken.

Posted by: jeff roby | Dec 27, 2008 3:54:39 PM | 16

The Israelis want complete control of Gaza ‘maritime’ gas.

http://www.inss.org.il/upload/(FILE)1188134584.htm>ME times from June 07

-one needs to read the entire text and between the lines to form any kind of overall, shadowy, shifting, picture. (couldn't find better.)

>Gaza gas deposits< on Google

turns up some dizzying smoothing, like the NY Times, 2000 - to show this is not news, geologically all is known since 20 years or ?

Gas Deposits Off Israel and Gaza Opening Vision of Joint Ventures

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9906E6DB1038F936A2575AC0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all>link

Posted by: Tangerine | Dec 27, 2008 4:02:12 PM | 17

It's about time an "International Brigade" was organised to defend Gaza. I'm ready to go.

Posted by: Alex | Dec 27, 2008 4:06:07 PM | 18

Any comments coming from PE Obama?

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 27, 2008 4:07:12 PM | 19

Grrr meant to add, in other news,
Samuel P. Huntington has died

Ol' Mr. Clash himself... Ding Dong the witch is dead.

I bet Zbig is salivating about now...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 27, 2008 4:11:50 PM | 20

They lack the will for the final solution. Even though headlines like "Right wing ultra nationalist parties gain before election" can appear, apparently without irony.

The question is, is this a reaction to, or a cause of, what is obviously the failure of the state? I fall on the reaction side.

Posted by: rapier | Dec 27, 2008 4:11:52 PM | 21

Religion has this God-awful tendency to go hand in glove with hate. So if the US really and truly wants to play a hand in creating peace between Israelis and Palestinians, then it should put its superpower to good use by forcibly removing all traces of religion from governments through Israel and its occupied territories. Maybe I'm just too much of a starry-eyed secularist, but I'd like to think that stripping religion entirely from all powers of government would do wonders for bringing love back into the hearts of these people living on the end of self-annihilation.

But if Israelis and Palestinians still have their hearts set on hating each other to death, if they are so damn dead-set on putting their differences on religion above their commonality as humans, if they simply don't have what it takes to treat those with religious differences as fellow human beings, then the US and its power of the purse should forever walk away from them -- never, ever looking back as they blow themselves up to smithereens!

Posted by: Cynthia | Dec 27, 2008 4:12:14 PM | 22

alex

there are tow biographies of that bang bang bling architest & liar speer - one of them by gitta sereny - which make it patently clear - that his own biographies - are nothing but vile lies & bile. he always hid the biggest lies - his knowledge of the extermination - & of death camps especially slave labour was wide ranging - behind a mirage of lies that pretended moral superiority

& that was what speer has in common with the spokespersons & yes the citizens of israel - a sense of moral superiority even while their state organs carry out the liquidation of a people & of their culture

& it is correct to make the comparisons with the nazis - they have been ipso facto the state of israels greatest teachers. what happened in poland, ukraine, russia is repeated almost act for act - if the einsatzgruppen have inheritors - they are israelis

the state of israel dishonours jews - that is its most fundamental reality

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 4:17:46 PM | 23

if the brothers of palestinians in egypt & the arab league actually did something to defend them - there wouldn't be a need for an international brigade

egypt is playing a particularly nefarious role in betraying the palestinians

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 4:26:33 PM | 24

r'giap -

there are tow biographies of that bang bang bling architest & liar speer - one of them by gitta sereny - which make it patently clear - that his own biographies - are nothing but vile lies & bile.

I never supposed for a moment that what Speer says is the truth; it is his own point of view, defending himself. Historians understand that a personal account by a participant has to be taken with reserve; even the supposedly objective accounts of historians have to be put in context of their own political views.

Posted by: Alex | Dec 27, 2008 4:39:11 PM | 25

i make the connection because my closest friend & colleague, thomas harlan, along with klaus kinski fought for israel in 1948 - arranging arms. they did so as honourable young men but they also did it to wash away the very real guilt of their fathers in the unholy crimes of fascism but what has israel become except some malignant form of fascism

what it has done, is doing & will continue to do is to use massacre & murder as its supreme form of politics. it does so cruelly & brutally. militarily it has proved that it is much much less than the myth . & this too it has a great deal in common with the nazis - when their brutal force was confronted with a real military defence by a people - the so called superiority of the germans dissapeared in a question of months

it is self evident that when you are using f16's against kassam rockets - it is not only disproportionate & indecent - it is evidently a war crime

in lebanon israel was showed in a fleeting moment how it could be reduced by its own violence - i imagine its own destruction will fall squarely on the shoulders of successive administrations of israel who have been more interested in assassination than in the most basic levels of parity & justice

i once thought something of the state of israel, now i do not think of it at all except with contempt

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 4:44:18 PM | 26

speer is almost the model for modern man in the west - especially the professional class. they will lie to their back teeth while inequalities & death surround them. speer is almost the mold - of the intellectual separating his own concerns from that of the people. & surprising in the post modern world - the crude nationalism in preference to a strengthened internationalism

speer possessed not an ounce of talent

israel does not possess an ounce of dignity

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 4:51:37 PM | 27

"Dishonors jews"? As opposed to some other state (let's call it "Israel"), which does honor jews, and humanity?

Israel is as much the state of Buber and Ha'am as it is Gurion and Dayen.

c'mon.

But this attack is appalling.

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 27, 2008 4:55:13 PM | 28

when you see a livni, an ommert or a barak - you are seeing man at his basest - netanyahu - man at his most monstrous

the so called leadership of the palestinian people is without peopel of the calbre of a dr habash & perhaps the most moral leader of importance bhargouti rots in an israeli prison - no doubt being tortured into oblivion - to become a worthy puppet of a corrupt state of israel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 5:05:27 PM | 29

israel possesses no moral authority, none at all

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 5:06:34 PM | 30

R'giap -

if the brothers of palestinians in egypt & the arab league actually did something to defend them - there wouldn't be a need for an international brigade

egypt is playing a particularly nefarious role in betraying the palestinians

Couldn't agree more, and the Egyptian people would agree. There was no popular enthusiasm for closing the barrier, once the Gazans had burst it. Mubarak has been loathsome, worse than any other ME "dictator". The question of whether that policy benefitted Egypt, no doubt his point of view, has to be asked. The popularity of the Muslim Brotherhood, always a dangerous opposition in Egypt, will have been increased. Perhaps Mubarak can cope with it; his successor, I doubt.

Posted by: Alex | Dec 27, 2008 5:10:15 PM | 31

alex

israel, like its lord & master the u s empire - show yet again - their short term gains are the long term disaster not only of the arab people but of themselves & the world. the rage of the arab people cannot be contained forever & in the last teny years we are witnessin from there all the way to the phillipines a hardening of the people's will that will exact a terrible & chaotic revenge

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 5:27:55 PM | 33

late night i watched an almost unbearable new film 'revolutionary road' which is based on a novel written in the 60's. it is essentially about the emptiness & hatred that is at the heart of the american dream. done domestically. it is one of the saddest commentaries on american culture that i have ever witnessed - told on its own terms. people will say of course that it has nothing to do with politics but on the contrary that photograph of domestic life is about nothing other than politics

when a people feel that dead inside that can watch the massacre of 'others', endlessly

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 5:35:07 PM | 34

r'giap - let Speer go, he's not important.

The question we have to face is how to help the Gazans. Most MoA people are ambivalent, if I understand correctly. Personally I think Gaza is a case worth being partisan, not normally so for me. How can one accept bombing a people into oblivion? It is outrageous.

Posted by: Alex | Dec 27, 2008 5:42:24 PM | 35

Alex@35

I agree with what you say regarding bombing a people into oblivion, but it seems that there are people being bombed everyday and everywhere, not just gaza. What are we to do?

Who do we save first?

All the war mongering and hate mongering has got to stop somewhere, somehow, or I think George Carlin (RIP) will be right about plastic being all that's left of human "civilization" . but I guess that will be when all this crap ends.

The politicians are the problem, we need to figure out a way to cut all these middle men (women) out of our dealings between peoples. I may be a pollyanna but I think the average laborers of nations would get along if the politicians would preach how bad hate and war are. But no, the leaders keep the peasants occupied, fighting each other outside the castle, so they don't come in and start breaking the good crystal.

If you float around on the various boards, like this, where good people are crying, "bullshit!" you find that most everyone (and I've done this myself) gets into the labels of "A" good "B" bad forgetting that they're discussing the same alphabet. (that's my weak metaphor trying to say we're all humans.)

If you're a student of history you must know the only label that really matters is Wealthy or Poor. And I don't mean winning the lottery wealthy, but freaking buying-out bill gates during lunch kind of wealthy. These are the folks we need to have a talk to. These are the assholes who are smiling and counting their money while poor folks die for different ideas of god. Silly, when you think about it. I mean, there really aren't that many rich creeps, and it sure makes it easier on them if we spend our days worrying about christianjewhindumuslumpagenscientologist rather than a few rich assholes.

I don't want to sound like a communist, but when I think about how much wealth has passed-down generation to generation, and with it, POWER, it makes me a bit up-tight.

dave


Posted by: David | Dec 27, 2008 6:29:48 PM | 36

I"ve been thinking all day about the Warsaw ghetto.

Thank you for these comments.

Posted by: jaydee | Dec 27, 2008 6:44:54 PM | 37

Fuck you ** mikep ** you abject piece of fetid shit.

Go Fuck Yourself.

Posted by: | Dec 27, 2008 6:54:56 PM | 38

But no, the leaders keep the peasants occupied, fighting each other outside the castle, so they don't come in and start breaking the good crystal.

Yes!

Posted by: vbo | Dec 27, 2008 7:59:29 PM | 39

alex
i am of the opinion, as i think so was althusser - that the pyschopathology of fascism, of individual fascists has a great deal to teach us about how political classes create themselves

history too is constantly teaching us - & if afghanistan iraq have taught us anything is how much it looks like the the german war on the east. the ocuupation policies of both america & israel are taken from that textbook - act for act - as you have pointed out - isolation, ghettoisation, heographic imperatives(for example, the jordan solution), torture, 'targeted' assassinations, collective punishement & wholesale massacres - like today

when we see what the american, french & british did practically in their colonisation is taken from that textbook - the infamous phoenix programme in vietnam which was itself an improvisation of what had been done in latin america - was taken wholly from the einsatzgruppen & the police battallions of nazi germany. again & again - the lessons that were applied by colonial power were the crueler ones

the ugly crimes of the state of israel have a historical context & it is infamous

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 8:07:22 PM | 40


it seems every day, Israel continues to lose rationality & as much as the "leaders" of Israel would like to see the Palestinians & Arabs do likewise, to the extent & even beyond the depth to which Israel has taken it, its doubtful its going to happen. Because the Palestinians & Arabs have neither the luxury of nor the necessity to follow Israel as deep into the madness. This is the un-mitigate-able concession that Israels "leaders" do not even begin to recognize that they have made.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Dec 27, 2008 9:01:34 PM | 41

today is yet more evidence of israels descent into barbarism

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 27, 2008 10:01:46 PM | 42

r'giap 8) "What the ZioNazi's are doing today in Gaza - the US:UK's will do in the "troublesome tribal areas bordering Pakistan and Afghanistan" ... with no reportage."

If ZioNazi's were really 'planning this for months' as they claim, imagine how much more fury they unleashed with, after Madoff "made off" with their retirement plans, and their privileged position on Wall Street came to an ignominious and farsical end.

Now Hebron's saying publicly, killing will be unremitting until Palestinians "behave". I believe that's the pure definition of psychopathic sadism, hate of Self (loss of US privilege) expiated by torture mutilation of the Other (as 'Arabic' US leader).

Posted by: Connie Francis | Dec 27, 2008 10:36:54 PM | 43

Les Afghans rire le déluge, voir?

Posted by: Anne Frank | Dec 27, 2008 11:31:45 PM | 44

Alex:

I ask myself why I am not on a boat bringing supplies to Gaza. It's a good question, I am embarrassed; I should be.

The question we have to face is how to help the Gazans. Most MoA people are ambivalent, if I understand correctly. Personally I think Gaza is a case worth being partisan, not normally so for me. How can one accept bombing a people into oblivion? It is outrageous.

Me, I don't have a boat; do you? In deadly earnest: What can be done? Ever since I read Orwell's account and justification of going to fight the fascists in Spain, I've wanted to do something similar, but is 'something' even possible anymore? Resistance to the Power that now is, appears to occupy a spectrum passing from vanity to suicide with nothing inbetween.

Posted by: Cloud | Dec 27, 2008 11:54:58 PM | 45

It's Sunday in Gaza and the second wave of attacks are underway.

Alex, if you are looking for direct, on the ground ways to help, I'd talk to ISM - http://www.palsolidarity.org/ - they do very good work.

But there is also a serious need for work here to try to bring the truth about these attacks to the american audience since Israel flew US made and sold F16s and Apaches that drop the bombs. Israel could not do what it does without US approval - and while I am not hopeful that we can change US policy, we sure need to try.

Posted by: Siun | Dec 28, 2008 12:28:17 AM | 46

Not that I believe it will do one damn bit of good, but I pass this along too...

endtheoccupation.org: Emergency Alert: Take Action to End Israeli Attacks on Gaza

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 28, 2008 12:33:15 AM | 47

palsolidarity.org

Posted by: | Dec 28, 2008 12:35:09 AM | 48

Sadly this is just more of the same insanity we've seen for 30-odd years, with no end in sight.

U.S. support and encouragement for Israeli policy is a disgrace, and a raw deal for the USA to boot.

Posted by: Matt | Dec 28, 2008 1:51:30 AM | 49

Israel has the right to exercise its legitimate claim to self-defense. No one can deny that the Palestinians are waging an illegal war, in total violation of international law, and have openly stated their intent to wipe out all of the Jews in the Mideast. They have been given many opportunities to law down their arms and live in peace. They have chosen war. Until they recognize Israel they should continue to expect more war. It's their choice. It's sad that the Israelis have been driven by Palestinian hatred to these extremes, but it wasn't their choice.

Problem with this is that the Palestinians have objectively valid grievances. Israel has no interest in any political arrangement other than a 'bantustan' style regime with very limited Palestinian sovereignty, and Israel's conduct in the territories is generally despicable.

Palestinians have been given the option to live as a subject people, subject to abuses and displacement by Israeli authorities and settlers. They've chosen not to, and it's hard to blame them for it.

Posted by: Matt | Dec 28, 2008 2:01:44 AM | 50

Cynthia #22
With the brief interruption of the crusades Palestine was for about 1200 years the perfect example of religious tolerance and peace. The Balfour Declaration, the British conquest, the terms of the Society of Nations for the British Mandate and the subsequent mass arrival of ashkenazi jews pursuing the colonial zionist enterprise is what divided Palestinian society.

The Arab-Israeli conflict is a religious conflict in as much as the Algerian war, the Vietnam war, or the African wars of liberation where religious conflicts.

The UN partition plan that legitimized Israel was passed in the last days of European colonial rule, before the former colonies attained representation, and since then Israel as ignored practically all General Assembly resolutions.

Of course it is portrayed to us as a religious conflict, one where backward and intolerant muslims fight enlightenment and “democracy”. That’s no wonder when the hegemonic culture is shaped and controlled by members of the same group that overwhelmingly support the zionist enterprise, namely, the (mostly ashkenazi) jewish community in the US.

That is what prevents international isolation of the zionist regime, in contrast with the quite effective isolation that helped bring about the end of apartheid in South Africa. It is isolation and a Cuito">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cuito_Cuanavale">Cuito Cuanavale , of witch the last invasion of Lebanon might have been the first signal, that will bring an inevitable end to this racist regime.

The question is only if it will come peacefully as in SA or if in the form of a great ball of fire.

The most effective way to help the Palestinians, and the Israelis, is to spread the deconstruction of the zionist narrative, particularly in the US where it generates.

As Norman Finkelstein explains in “The Holocaust Industry” this is a recent narrative. Criticism of Israel as been first equated with anti-semitism, and lately with terror apology. It’s this equation that must be shattered. No attempt to control discourse can survive forever, and insidious though this one is, it will come to an end.

Posted by: estouxim | Dec 28, 2008 2:19:45 AM | 51

When Israel kills hundred of Gazans, many of whom were militants, there is a massive response of people condemning Israel.

When Hamas sends hundreds suicide bombers cumulatively who kill Israels in non-strategic location (bus stops, restaurants, etc.) I don't see any outrage at all.

When Hamas sent rockets from Gaza to nearby Israeli civillian targets during the truce, I saw few people complaining.

When Israel retaliates after being bombed repeatedly, I see bloggers asserting that the truce was just a sneaky plan to attack a defenseless enemy.

I don't have a problem with people taking the side of the Palestinians. What bothers me is that there seems to be such a double standard. Israeli civilian deaths are just as disgraceful as Palestinian deaths. And it's also disgraceful if either side targets only civilians.

Posted by: Brian | Dec 28, 2008 2:27:26 AM | 52

I have some little questions for Israel’s apologists & cheerleaders

Let's star with this: what is your offer for peace?

Since the Oslo Accords, many polls have showed that a reliable majority of Palestinians has declared their will for make a peace based in a partition of the land along the pre-1967 Green Line. In other words, they have agreed to recognize Israel in a clear majority of the area of the former British
mandate that was their homeland before the consolidation of the Zionist project in 1948.

Let's play the numbers a little (all data has been extracted from the CIA world fact book, a really leftie spot as you know).

The area of the State of Israel is 20.770 sq km. The added areas of the West Bank and Gaza strip are 6220 sq km. Before 1948, and ever more so before the start of Zionist settlements after 1897 the Palestinians inhabited all of these territories (totaling 26.990 sq km). If they are willing to relinquish their claims over almost the totality of these land, the relatively famous 78 % of historic Palestine, why on earth should they be coerced to renounce at even more land?

But precisely such an exigency has been at the center of the "generous offers" of Israel in past negotiations. Not even the more flexible interpretations add it up for Israel. For example, if the Palestinians were to decide that the more or less 13 000 sq km of the Negev desert didn’t deserve their attention,they still be willing to live in less than half of the disputed territory (more or less 44.5 % versus 55.5 % for Israel)

Since Israel’s apologists are almost always claiming that they only want peace but are forced into war for the Palestinians, let's see if they are capable of answer these simple questions (which never will be asked at them in the mainstream media): What do you offer at the Palestinians in exchange for peace? Why should they renounce to even more land besides the huge amount that they have already lost?

If you think that these questions are useful, please feel free to circulate and improve them.

Posted by: C.A. | Dec 28, 2008 2:47:51 AM | 53

@ Brian #52 Just a few points.

1) While I think everyone at M of A opposes violence of any kind, its difficult to be as upset about 9 Israeli civilians who died over the past 3 years as over the 230 who died in one day and the 1400 who died before that.

2) With all due respect, Gaza is not restricting food, water and medicine to Israel. It's hard to starve in silence.

3) Hamas has largely honored its ceasefire until the Israelis violated it on November 5th.

4) Perhaps most important of all, Gaza does not consist of European settlers who ethnically cleansed the prior inhabitants to build their state. This is a crucial difference. Also, Gaza does not depend on Apartheid to continue its existence, whereas Israel does.

None of this is to argue that Hamas is without fault, but we need keep things in perspective.

Cheers and happy new year.

Posted by: Lysander | Dec 28, 2008 3:19:31 AM | 54

Let's hope Hamas have been taking lessons from Hezbollah.

Posted by: johnf | Dec 28, 2008 4:42:40 AM | 55

I think the Madoff scandal and the Wall Street Crash as a whole is something which should be studied far more closely for the effect it is going to have on Israel. American Jews have been disproportionately hit by the hedge fund meltdowns, the investment bank collapses, etc etc. Major backers of the Likud/Netanhayu - like Sheldon Adelson, the Las Vegas casino multi-billionaire- have taken huge hits.

How is this going to effect AIPAC/Washington. AIPAC is essentially a system by which Wall St money is recycled into American politicians pockets to get them to back Israel. How much of that money is still going to be there?

Posted by: johnf | Dec 28, 2008 4:52:52 AM | 56

for me the situation in Palestine is so very simple. there are agressors and there are people resisting occupation. Protocol 1 to the Geneva Convention addresses the rights of the occupied people but it really doesn't make a rat's ass because Israel and the US have not ratified the protocol.

another factor that might affect US/Israel relations is how Iraq turns out under Obama. If the US is able to install a pliable puppet there who can control the country while being properly obedient, the case for spending large amounts of money to prop up the Zionist becomes much harder to justify. All it would take is a few evangelicals to start telling their congregations about the cruelty of the Jews and this tremendous support currently enjoyed by Israel will disappear in a New York minute. Christians all blame the Jews for killing Jesus anyway so it will not be difficult at all to do.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 28, 2008 5:55:32 AM | 57

dos, i like your thinking ;)

Posted by: annie | Dec 28, 2008 7:01:02 AM | 58

well, except for that i wouldn't want a backlash on 'the jews', just israel and their rightwinger warmonger ethnic cleansers.

Posted by: annie | Dec 28, 2008 7:03:37 AM | 59

If the US is able to install a pliable puppet there who can control the country while being properly obedient

That's hardly likely. Not worth suggesting. The effect Iraq might have on Israel is that if and when the US withdraws, as they have specifically agreed to do, there'll be less American presence in the ME to ease the Israeli sense of isolation.

Posted by: Alex | Dec 28, 2008 7:07:01 AM | 60

Alex, you may very well be right and I suppose I hope you are even if the human cost to the Iraqis will be great.

It is not impossible to have a pro US government in Iraq like the ones that are in virtually every other country in that region. Jordan has a working relationship with the US for example as well as Kuwait and all the Gulf States. Syria would dearly love to improve relations and would already be in better standing were it not the threat Israel perceives in them.

The US will not leave Iraq, that is simply not going to happen as long as there is oil there and not before they are driven out by force of arms. More than 60 years later the US is still in Germany, Japan, Italy, and Korea.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 28, 2008 8:43:47 AM | 61

Good god I can hardly credit what I am reading here. The Israeli military political nexus cynically takes advantage of the fact it's xtian supporters will be living away from their normal routine and ups the pace of serial murdering - an awful act of psycho-sexual hostility and barbarity towards the other humans living in the Jordan Valley, just so israeli voters go into the polling booth with a hard on to back the crooks with the biggest guns.

This attention seeking behaviour will grab attention and requires loud condemnation from the rest of humanity. All of it directed at the source of the violence, the corrupt pseudo state of Israel. But bugger me dead, Giap and co try to blame egyptians for this anti-human behaviour, an act of egregious racism that tries to say all arabs are the same, this is the fault of egyptians for not restraining israel, not an issue of Israel demonstrating its fundamental criminality. An attempt to divert from the reality that since the 'israel' that is now, has become a blight that can only continue to exist as the evil racist outpost of amerika.

That existence requires continuing the slaughter of the indigenous people of the Jordan Valley, so humanity requires that israel must cease to exist.

I begin to wonder if there really is a jew left in the world who hasn't been infected with this despicable anti-arab sickness. How can you blame the people of egypt for the crimes of the zionists of Israel Giap?

Then in a further act of racism, more of the "if all arabs don't behave as we want then it is their fault that this slaughter in Gaza is necessary", we are told that the death of a million Iraqis, and the expulsion of 4 million more, will be balanced out if the Iraqis that are left, meekly allow amerika to steal their resources so that then, perhaps amerika may smack Israel's wrist for being too keen.

Fucking hell. So as long as all the arabs in the ME lie down on their bellies with their freshly lubricated anuses pointing skywards ready to allow a casual rape, THEN maybe Israel can be persuaded to concede that further violence is un-necessary?

Fortunately the people of the ME will never go for it and all of them - amerikans, english, new israeli west bank invaders, the corrupt, greedy and foolishly arrogant children of the pseudo socialist kibbutzim will be driven out of the Jordan valley, out of Mesopotamia, out of Arabia. Just as they have in every other crusade.


Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 28, 2008 10:58:30 AM | 62

What is happening on the ground in Gaza? Please watch this video from Real News.

Posted by: bea | Dec 28, 2008 11:05:15 AM | 63

DoS 61 The US will not leave Iraq, that is simply not going to happen

They did just sign a publicly witnessed agreement to do exactly that. How do you explain this curious fact? Why was it that the US did not simply impose the conditions it wanted on Iraq?

Could it not be that actually those were the best terms that the US could get?

Could it not be that after five years of continuous brutalisation by the US, nobody in Iraq, and I mean nobody, (apart from the Kurds) is ready to envisage a future with US troops in the country?

Posted by: alex | Dec 28, 2008 11:08:57 AM | 64

Helena Cobban has an excellent post up on this. Worth reading in its entirety.

Posted by: bea | Dec 28, 2008 11:13:08 AM | 65

Giap and co try to blame egyptians for this anti-human behaviour

It's terminological inexactitude, DiD 64. Confusing the people with the leader. They should have been saying H. Mubarak.

Posted by: alex | Dec 28, 2008 11:13:15 AM | 66

But there is also a serious need for work here to try to bring the truth about these attacks to the american audience since Israel flew US made and sold F16s and Apaches that drop the bombs. Israel could not do what it does without US approval

Which also creates a risk of attacks against U.S. interests or even in America itself. Just 100 nothing-to-lose jihadis dispatched to American shopping malls with assault rifles or suicide bombs could essentially shut down the US economy for weeks.

Posted by: Peter | Dec 28, 2008 11:34:57 AM | 67

debs

i thought i could not be clearer. the weight of blame falls squarely on the state of israel - with no doubt a nod & a wink from washington & their puppet in cairo

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 28, 2008 11:39:17 AM | 68

alex, please do not misunderstand me. It is my fervent wish that the US declare victory and leave Iraq, every single one of them. Have a regular embassy staff in a regular building and nothing more.

I will believe they are leaving when they are gone. too much money has been spent and the stakes are too high for any of our elites to simply pull the plug now. only when the cost becomes unsustainable and/or they are violently expelled, perhaps clinging to helicopter skids will they leave.

it is not what I want, it is merely what I expect will happen.

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 28, 2008 11:39:59 AM | 69

rememberinggiap - Israel was the easy way out for West Germany, exiles, holocaust survivors, forced labor were not really welcomed to come back or stay ...
so holocaust survivors were persuaded to go to another war zone

Posted by: outsider | Dec 28, 2008 11:56:13 AM | 70

really abbas is like chaim rumkowski surrendering the sovereignty of his people before the most unbelievable savagery

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 28, 2008 12:38:09 PM | 71

regev, the spokesperson for the state of israel is a particularly slimy specimen of that breed we have watched over & over again at the press conferences at the whitehouse

not only do they turn the world & the word upside down but he does so with an unforgettable brutality & with an immense poverty of language

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 28, 2008 12:45:23 PM | 72

& regev, an australian who has only lived a small portion of his life in israel imagines he posseses more roots than the palestinians - it is an obscene 'comprehension' of reality

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 28, 2008 12:55:08 PM | 73

inner city press blogged overnight (u.n. HQ time) that

The UN Security Council's closed-door consultations on Gaza were suspended after an hour, as the U.S. was said to oppose Libya's request for a formal meeting and to prefer a non-binding press statement. A Russian draft emerged from the Council, complete with handwritten amendments by the Arab League.

The first paragraph "urged Israel to halt without delay its military operations," to which the Arab League penned in, "as well as destruction of property." The second paragraph "called for immediate cessation of rocket attacks on the Israeli territory from Gaza." The final two paragraphs dealt with "humanitarian access" and "political solutions."

A non-Western Council diplomat emerged to offer this summary: all but the U.S. agreed to the Russian proposal. The U.S. counter-proposal identified Hamas by name, which Libya called unacceptable, saying that if the Israeli operations don't stop, they will return to the Council on Sunday this time with a draft resolution. But that wouldn't pass either.

Meanwhile, the spokesman for Miguel d'Escoto Brockmann, the President of the General Assembly, said he is coming back early from his leave in Nicaragua. Ban Ki-moon was said to be monitoring the Council meeting, preparing to arrive if in fact a formal meeting took place.

During a lull, the Permanent Observer of Palestine came out to the Council stakeout microphone. Inner City Press asked him if these events make it more or less likely that Hamas and Fatah surmount their rift. Amb. Mansour called this a distraction. But is it?

The dynamic of Saturday's session seems to be that the U.S., to avoid a public meeting, might agree to some statement. But probably not one that calls for an Israeli halt. What would Obama say? What does Obama say? For now, from Hawaii, he is "monitoring" the air strikes..

...

Update of 12:59 a.m. -- a Western diplomat emerges to say there is agreement on restoring ceasefire and humanitarian access, but nothin else. A non-Western diplomat emerges to say that the U.S. is contesting everything, "like with Lebanon in 2006," just delaying while attacks continue.

...

Update of 2:02 a.m. -- a three paragraph draft has emerged, diplomatically expressing concern about the escalation of the situation in Gaza, and referring to opening border crossings. South Africa's Kumalo says, "they are having to wake up in Washington."

The three-paragrapher tellingly begins: "The Members of the Security Council expressed serious concern at the escalation of the situation in Gaza and called for an immediate halt to all violence...."

Update of 2:55 a.m. -- the three paragraph press statement, called by Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin a "modest non-document," was agreed to, and read out by Croatia's Neven Jurica. U.S. Ambassador Khalilzad then came and emphasized, in response to every question, the "sequence" -- rockets and then reaction, he said again and again. Riyad Mansour spoke mostly in Arabic. France's Jean-Pierre Lacroix was asked no questions at all. Inner City Press asked Israel's Ambassador to respond to the President of the General Assembly's statement about "collective punishment... disproportionate military response... [on] groups of students attempting to find transportation home from the university." She responded that only Hamas was to blame. And then she was gone.

Posted by: b real | Dec 28, 2008 1:24:06 PM | 74

Long-term preparation, careful gathering of information, secret discussions, operational deception and the misleading of the public - all these stood behind the Israel Defense Forces "Cast Lead" operation against Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip, which began Saturday morning.

The disinformation effort, according to defense officials, took Hamas by surprise and served to significantly increase the number of its casualties in the strike.

Sources in the defense establishment said Defense Minister Ehud Barak instructed the Israel Defense Forces to prepare for the operation over six months ago, even as Israel was beginning to negotiate a ceasefire agreement with Hamas. According to the sources, Barak maintained that although the lull would allow Hamas to prepare for a showdown with Israel, the Israeli army needed time to prepare, as well.

Disinformation, secrecy and lies: How the Gaza offensive came about

Posted by: b | Dec 28, 2008 2:26:30 PM | 75

Nice to see ya bea...

thanks for #63&65

Buy ya a drink?

Anyway, I can't understand why TPM is so reluctant to report truthfully on Gaza. As Helena Cobban points out they give it the minimum and then further omit the truth of the matter. It really sucks as TPM is otherwise an excellent source for 'some' news.

Also, this, Israeli Warplanes Fly Low Over South Lebanon


December 28, 2008

At least five Israeli warplanes on Sunday flew low over south Lebanon, already the target of an overnight reconnaissance flight, a Lebanese security official said.

"At least five aircraft over flew the Bint Jbeil region (south of Beirut) and headed for the port town of Tyre" farther north, the official told AFP.

The security official said an Israeli MK-type reconnaissance aircraft flew over the south all night until dawn broke.

Tension remains high in the region two years after the 34-day summer war in 2006 between Israel and Lebanon's Shiite Hizbullah movement which devastated the south of the country.

Hizbullah chief Hassan Nasrallah, who is expected to speak later on Sunday about the deadly Israeli air attacks on Gaza, has threatened to "destroy" Israel if a new conflict erupts.

Israel says Hizbullah has "tripled its firepower" since the 2006 conflict and has pledged to attack Lebanese civilian locations in the event of renewed hostilities.

Israeli flights over Lebanon are in breach of U.N. Security Council resolution 1710, which in August 2006 ended the Israel-Hizbullah war.(AFP)

Looks like Israel is about to go balls-out, batshit insane. Will no one stop them? Obama? Oh that's right he's off windsurfing or whatever in Hawaii. Kinda reminds me of Mr. "help is on the way"...

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 28, 2008 2:44:01 PM | 76

drink Uncle? Yes please, and make it a double.

Posted by: bea | Dec 28, 2008 3:03:24 PM | 77

Last May Mr. Bush Addressed Members of the Knesset - Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran equals terrorists that will be defeated. Followed by b's link @ 75 - "Ehud Barak instructed the Israel Defense Forces to prepare for the operation" Oh what a coincidence. Here's another quote from the same article:

While Barak was working out the final details with the officers responsible for the operation, Livni went to Cairo to inform Egypt's president, Hosni Mubarak, that Israel had decided to strike at Hamas.

@ Debs is dead - Here's some more "egregious racism" the Arab League cancelled an emergency meeting for sunday to address the attack on Gaza. Srprise surprise. Want some more: Egypt participated in the Gaza blockade and shot at Palestinians trying to flee the carnage today. Not unlike Abbass's forces shooting at Palestinian protestors in Hebron. They are all singing the same tune as Miss Rice that it is all Hamas's fault.

@ alex - Mr. Obama on Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN today - Us troops will stay in Iraq and the numbers will depend on conditions on the ground. But you people can believe anything you want to. After all it's written on paper.

Posted by: Sam | Dec 28, 2008 4:02:51 PM | 78

r giap posted: egypt is playing a particularly nefarious role in betraying the palestinians

Egypt is dependent on, and afraid of the US. Saudi, all the rest, as well.

and on israel: what it has done, is doing & will continue to do is to use massacre & murder as its supreme form of politics.

True. Perhaps it is because ppl are seen as only stats on a sheet or computer.

It seems to me that Israeli citizens, the good Jews (pardon the expression), but all the bad ones as well, and even the ‘Arabs’ who have some shoddy permits and toeholds mean nothing, absolutely nothing, to the Isr. Gvmt and Corp. leaders, financiers, international movers and shakers, and all the expats (in this case, religiously defined) who defend and fund Isr.

The citizens are just bodies, place holders, more trouble than they are worth. Isr. as an ethnic/religious defined state needs the breathing bodies, the numbers, and the hype to defend its existence. The definition itself is what leads to this mess, in part.

Ethiopians, uneducated, to be controlled. Fundamentalists, out of time, uneducated, lazy, non-workers, a drag on the economy, an anachronism. Russians, nothing but trouble, demanding and violent, hoodlums. Settlers from the US? Have to be funded 100% and require pools ...the army to protect them while they throw rocks, spit, sneer and lord it... Holocaust survivors? Dreck, clag, decrepit, whiners, of no use any longer except for the occasional sentimental photo op. Certainly no money for them. (Who has watched the reparations scandals?) Single mothers? The need stipends to keep their children alive. Not one penny more. Low level workers? Who re-label Pal goods for international sale? Do they need health care? The golden youth of Tel Aviv (cynical, drunk, or falsely sincere, mouthing slogans) are needed for the TV cameras, Isr. is a land of opportunity, modern, it’s like London or Berlin. (Not if you ask them.) And so on. No doubt I amplify for effect!

The viciousness is also directed inwards. Commodification, depersonalization don’t spare anyone. So the Israelis also become dumb and mute and powerless. Or bow down to the powerful for their pay, status, etc.

- this is no apology just one aspect which is rarely brought up

Posted by: Tangerine | Dec 28, 2008 5:01:29 PM | 79


if the USA govt really wants to stay in Iraq, its going to have to be ready to fight like hell. And thats not going to happen. If the USA does not leave, the resistance will escalate dramatically and they are not going to be throwing shoes at Americans. GWB has agreed to leave & Obama is not going to renege on the principle. Its not as if staying in Iraq for a few more years buys the USA anything. A decision to stay only makes sense if its aimed at a very bloody long-term.

Obama is going to work out a honorable discharge with the Iraqi's and he'll declare victory.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Dec 28, 2008 5:57:04 PM | 80

@ alex - Mr. Obama on Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN today - Us troops will stay in Iraq and the numbers will depend on conditions on the ground. But you people can believe anything you want to. After all it's written on paper.

I didn't want to come back on this debate about Iraq because it is not relevant to the thread about Gaza. But we have the usual cynics. The error that these cynics make, like Sam here or DoS, or many others, is that, curiously enough, they share a NeoCon core belief: that the USA is omnipotent, that it can do whatever it wants. Well that may have been true in 2003, but it is not now. The US is extremely constrained in the Middle East. I am sure, that, at the moment, Obama also shares this mistaken belief. He is now faced with his first ME crisis, and I am sure he will learn quickly. But he isn't up to speed yet. On the other hand what he said on CNN (I don't have CNN in France) was certainly addressed to an audience and was what that audience wanted to hear.

The point about Iraq is that the US only has two options, withdraw or forced military occupation. It's a bipolar choice, one or the other, because of the brutal policies carried out by US forces. Now nice Mr Obama wants to have his war in Afghanistan, if you remember. So how is he going to have his surge in Afghanistan, if he has to do another surge in Iraq? Another surge in Iraq is really not on, and the present US govt knows it (but probably not Obama). More, the Iraqis know it too.

There's also the question of Obama's desire to improve the US reputation in the world. Outright abrogate a public agreement the US signed, is going to do wonders for US diplomacy. The US is going to be back to simply bullying.

Well, there's a couple of reasons why the US, in my opinion, the US is going to stick by the piece of paper you so deride, Sam. There's a lot more, but I don't want to divert a Gaza thread.

Posted by: Alex | Dec 28, 2008 6:40:26 PM | 81

Maybe you're right, estouxim! Hatred between Israelis and Palestinians is driven more by racism than by religious bigotry. But about the only to know for sure that this is true is for everyone in Israel and its occupied territory to all either practice exclusively as Jews or exclusively as Muslims.

Let me also add that it's hard to tell what's truly going on in the Gaza Strip when Israel has banned outside journalists from entering this occupied territory of theirs. But whenever a nation engages in all-out censorship, as Israel is doing, this usually means that its political elites are up to no good!

Posted by: Cynthia | Dec 28, 2008 7:14:33 PM | 82

the destruction of the university tonigh - yet another crime of war

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 28, 2008 7:22:41 PM | 83

it is astonishing to me that i can still be shocked by the depravity of power - how its crimes still astound me - it is no wonder at all the fundamentalism of all sorts & kinds grow in an envronment like this - where people ordinary people - at best suffer the gravest inequalities since the 18th century - & at worse, are just piles of skin, bone & blood - as they are in the middle east

the immoral state of israel - in this moment - is reminiscent of thos last days of south africa - bloody, messy, almost apocalyptic & you feel that those who benefited from apartheid every felt any regret for the blood they spilled & i feel that with the citizens of israel - they do not seem to regret or feel shame for the murderous policies of their leadership

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Dec 28, 2008 7:50:20 PM | 84

A friend just told me that statically there is less conflict in the world then at any time ever before.
I told him that according to Mark Twain there are three types of lies: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics.
I need to get a world map and color all the areas that are experiencing hot conflicts and see what's left.
I'd be willing to bet one of the last two people on earth would end up killing the other...

Dave

Posted by: David | Dec 28, 2008 7:59:35 PM | 85

@ Alex - That is some description alex. Now I'm a NeoCon and I believe that the US is, and I quote "omnipotent". Praise be to W the new lord our saviour. Oh and this does not "divert a Gaza thread" as they are enterwined in overall US ME policy and both are made possible by the one thing you keep ignoring and that is collaborators. You really have to ask yourself Why would the Iraqi government ask the US to stay in the first place? Is the reason for this going to go away in the future? As long as Arab leaders keep kissing US arse nothing really changes as far as I can see.

Posted by: Sam | Dec 28, 2008 8:03:28 PM | 86

JPost article I won't link to says IAF using US supplied "smart bombs" in Gaza. (not to mention the F-16s they're dropping 'em with)

your tax dollars at work, if you're a US citizen.

and OB's "monitoring the situation". fuck him and every other craven enabler of Israel's despicable war crimes.

Posted by: ran | Dec 28, 2008 8:22:05 PM | 87

er, BO, rather.

Posted by: ran | Dec 28, 2008 8:23:42 PM | 88

Important diary on DK:

Today I end my support of Israel
by Chilean Jew
Sun Dec 28, 2008 at 11:07:48 AM PST

Like davidminzer, I'm Jewish and descendant of holocaust survivors. Moreover, I've been a Zionist all of my life. I went to a Zionist school, I was active in Zionist youth groups. I've always been a fervent supporter of Israel as a refuge for Jews around the world who seek a place to exercise their traditions and embrace their identity in peace.

I sang the Israeli anthem in the train rails of Aushwitz-Birkenau and I pledged to fight every day of my life to make sure the savage crimes that had taken place there would never happen again. Every year I pledged: Never Again. Remember and Never forget.

Well, I haven't forgotten. And so to honor that pledge, to honor the memory of my family members who died in those death camps and because "there comes a time when silence is betrayal", today I finally and publicly end my support for the state of Israel.

I do this with great pain in my heart, but nonetheless with the overwhelming conviction that it is the only right thing to do. I was patient: I tolerated the destruction of the Oslo process by refusing to end or slow down the constant and criminal construction of settlements. I held my nose and stood my ground when Barak killed the final status negotiations at Taba 2001. I even remained loyal after Sharon's massacres in the West Bank, the brutal Annexation wall, the illegal "selective assassinations" and Olmert's war crimes in Lebanon.
I had to defend Israel and Israelis with my friends and others who demanded I be consistent with my progressive views and oppose a country that was responsible for horrible crimes against innocent human beings. "Israelis are scared, they are traumatized, you have to understand...", "Israel is responding to attacks on itself, tell me one other country that wouldn't respond when attacked...", I demanded understanding, I pleaded for a fair and comparative analysis.

ENOUGH. I'm done justifying crimes against humanity by a country that claims to be an illuminated western democracy. I'm done defending a country that is unwilling to grant self-determination to a neighboring people because it won't let go of a few settlements and divide a city. I'm done tolerating the slaughtering of innocent kids, the murderous and barbaric occupation of an impoverished people, the utter disregard for human life.

Fuck them.

If they think their daily peace of mind is worth the lives of hundreds of innocent people, Fuck them.

If they think the best way to go right now would be to vote for Natanyahu (who is so far winning in the polls), Fuck them.

If they won't bat an eye before keeping millions without electricity or water, before bombing civilian neighborhoods at exactly the time when kids are leaving schools, before breaking every standard of international law or moral decency, Fuck them.

It's time for every true progressive in this country and around the world to do the only thing that our consciences should allow us to do, the only thing that can keep us consistent with our supposed beliefs that human life is precious and that unnecessary violence is always criminal, barbarous and unacceptable. We must demand that Israel stop violence and immediately put an end to its colonialist military occupation of Palestine.

And until they do so, we must organize and do everything we can to make sure our money is not financing mass murder and oppression.

It is time for the progressive movement to demand immediate Divestment from Israel, just like we divested from other oppressive states like South Africa.
The only reason not to do so is willful hypocrisy.

And I don't know about you, but I'm done being a hypocrite.

Unnecessary murder of innocents is always wrong.

Selfish and unjustifiable occupation is always wrong.

Inaction in the face of massive suffering and injustice is always wrong.

It is thus our responsibility to make sure Obama and the rest of our leaders understand that this time we will be relentless, this time we mean business and this time we will honor our pledges.

NEVER AGAIN!

DIVEST NOW!

Peace
Salaam
Shalom

Posted by: bea | Dec 28, 2008 10:30:41 PM | 89

I remeber a story i read:
during world war 2 , when the jewish population where rounded up into ghetto camps, some organized into groups and legalized their acts as resistance against the nazi's."

Well if you replace the ghetto with gaza, jewish with palestinian and nazi with IDF, well surprise surprise , history repeats itself.this is not a conflict, its a soap opera drama, where the ending is never written as its not good for ratings ( in this case the rating within israel and the arab world)

If trusth is to be told, we want to live in peace both israeli's and palestinians. But when we have leaders who propose hate and ignorance , well what do we expect.

The current bpmbardment is evil , but it will not stop. it will be followed by an intifidah more suicide bombings and "reprisals", and in the end the drama will continue.

Posted by: awol | Dec 28, 2008 10:38:54 PM | 90

One has to wonder at the morality and sanity of a people who teach their children to commit suicide by blowing up others.That goes for both sides.

Posted by: Juan Lopez | Dec 29, 2008 3:21:28 PM | 91

Juan Lopez,

would you care to develop your argument a bit more? I am curious as to where you got the idea that people teach their children to blow themselves up.

I spent many years in the US military and we celebrate a few guys who did heroic acts and usually died while doing it. Many of these acts involve choosing certain death in order to save one's comrades, such as throwing oneself on a grenade or staying behind when wounded and directing artillery strikes directly on your own position. Any of these acts are technically suicide yet those people were awarded medals of honor and such.

Now, when a young man or woman witnesses his entire family blown to bits by foreign fighters, watches this happen with no consequences to the invaders, finally decides to take matters into his or her own hands and becomes a guided missile or smart bomb able to zero in on the enemy with uncanny precision he or she is a ruthless terrorist, scum, uncivilized, and totally incomprehensible.....right?

do you not see a double standard? had you ever considered what might possibly drive a person to such drastic measures? do you really believe the Muslim religion is responsible for these actions? Did not the Japanese do the very same things with their Kamakazi pilots?

please, do enlighten me. tell me who is moral and sane. it surely must be the ones who fly remote controlled bombers from a different continent and rain down death on totally unsuspecting wedding parties. am I close?

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 29, 2008 6:50:10 PM | 92

The ME has a record of divide and conquer. The problem now is the party in control is trying to appease and not conquer. They (Israel) should go ahead and wipe out the Muslims from the Holy Lands and keep it for as long as they can, until the Muslims figure out a way to get it back by force. No other system works in the ME. You can bleed to death or just die. There is no room for Jews and Muslims to exist in the same area. History tells us so. If I had a neighbor who swore to my wife that one day, he'd kill me, I'd kill him tonight.

Posted by: Curtis Wilson | Jan 2, 2009 12:31:19 AM | 93

What a joke and western colonizer colored comment to make.

Jews and muslims had been living next to each other for at least 1400 years in the Middle East before the western colonizers started the rape of Palestine.

Of course by 'history' you mean the western 'orientalist' fantasies used to justify rape, murder and pillage over the last tree or four centuries.

Posted by: ThePaper | Jan 2, 2009 4:34:54 AM | 94

One has to wonder at the morality and sanity of a people who teach their children to commit suicide by blowing up others.

one has to wonder at the morality and sanity of someone blathering about suicide bombers when big powerful governments operating in their name are slaughtering or maining thousands of defenseless innocent people while they are typing.

Posted by: annie | Jan 2, 2009 5:37:52 AM | 95

I wish you would remember who always fires the first shot after a TRUCE its the non-Israeli side, and then they scream blue murder that they get retaliation DUH. You are dumb!!!!!

Posted by: Britan | Jan 5, 2009 6:11:56 PM | 96

I wish you would remember who always fires the first shot after a TRUCE its the non-Israeli side, and then they scream blue murder that they get retaliation DUH. You are dumb!!!!!

Posted by: Britan | Jan 5, 2009 6:13:42 PM | 97

Britan (sp?), so wrong you have to repeat it? Yes, each of those civilians pushed a firing button.

Posted by: biklett | Jan 5, 2009 6:20:34 PM | 98

So did the israeli's also fire the first shots in lebanon or did I get that wrong too

Posted by: britan | Jan 8, 2009 6:06:16 AM | 99

fuck isralllllllllllll

Posted by: amjad | Feb 21, 2009 12:03:41 PM | 100

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